It will be interesting though to see character progression through writing
#h1-builds-and-combat
somber epoch
wheat elbow
Nobody is perfectly evil or perfectly good.
hard holly
Anyway, this is a discussion for #h1-story-discussion
somber epoch
but yeah uhh
wheat elbow
What cardgame man said.
hard holly
Ya mean the new Wrath?
wheat elbow
Amazing with the right wrath effect.
hard holly
Idk
wheat elbow
Loving it with Zeus, "meh" with Poseidon.
hard holly
Full charge is busted
Small charge is whatever
Bit too binary
Poseidon is busted
You trivialize entire boss phases
kind cloud
I'm playing hte new update. Can someone explain to me if there's a way to avoid taking damage in the dungeons when there's a green-ish tint and there's poison all over the floors?
pastel jolt
that green tint means you're poisoned
don't stand in the green stuff, but if you do get poisoned, then there are fountains in the room that'll cure you
kind cloud
So that's what the cure wells are for.
Thank you.
And what triggers the poisoned effect?
somber epoch
I think stepping in the green stuff
rocky mica
If the Descent reward is the same as the next room reward, is there a reason for going down? Or does it count as an extra room in the act/run?
kind fiber
Whats the requirements for the poseidon aphrodite duo boon?
native ether
Poison is triggered by:
Being hit by a Satyr dart
Standing in a poison trap that's active
Standing in a poison pool from a big rat
kind fiber
Can the little rats poison you?
pastel jolt
to get the aphrodite/poseidon duo, you need at least one of the Attack, Special, Cast, Dash, or Wrath boons from Aphrodite and Poseidon
native ether
Poison stacks too, dealing X stacks damage very fast over time.
elfin pulsar
so whats the point of the hermes legendary?
it just seems kinda useless
does it slow attack speed?
elfin pulsar
ooooooo
somber epoch
they move very slow
wheat elbow
Wait, so Hermes has multiple legendaries?
somber epoch
no, only 1
elfin pulsar
does it work on bosses?
hard holly
I mean
I had a Hermes legendary which auto-picked up casts for me
So he must have 2
somber epoch
oh, really?
wheat elbow
Yes.
somber epoch
huh
native ether
He has 2 now
somber epoch
i see
covert grove
@wheat elbow I think you're right about the Skull Earring being much weaker now because of the buff to Death Defiances. The nerf to the Plume %s hurts a lot too. Not sure what's best yet, but I think starting with the Purse is optimal for now
kind cloud
So I beat Hades on my first try but I walked in with 6 death defiances, 335 health, and Ares' Legendary Vicious Cycle.
wheat elbow
@covert grove I was actually considering the Chaos Egg for Tartarus.
covert grove
That's crazy talk
wheat elbow
Money is much more valuable now, so going for an early epic or higher extra gold boon out of chaos could be neat.
covert grove
Ah that's true
wheat elbow
Chaos Egg into Coin Purse into whatever you want.
Should ensure that you'll be able to buy out every store always everywhere.
If you don't get it, you may still get something like stronger specials or whatever.
kind cloud
The poison effect did more much damage to me than the actual enemies. I estimate that 250+ damage came from stepping in the green goo and losing health every second versus maybe ~50ish points of damage from enemy attacks.
kind fiber
Cinematic, you can cure the poison effect by walking up to a well and interacting with it
There are plenty of them in each room
@kind cloud
west siren
Has anyone else had trouble knocking out those flying skulls in the final fight? I was using the rail gun and they wrecked me.
kind cloud
@kind fiber
Yeah, I came here to ask what was triggering/causing that damage. Someone told me.
But the poisoned effect can do a lot of damage in about 20 seconds. When I got poisoned, I had to make a choice between defeating the swarming waves or rushing to the well for a cure.
kind fiber
KK, just clarifying because I didn't think there would be a reason for anyone to take 250 damage from poison unless they didn't understand the mechanics at play
native ether
Purse honestly became much better considering it's very hard to actually end up buying out the Styx market (or as I'm now affectionately calling it: the Costco of the Underworld)
kind fiber
You get a lot of money from the rooms on that floor
native ether
You do but unless you walk in with a substantial amount of cash to start, you ain't buying that whole thing out alone.
kind fiber
You can usually buy the important stuff, and if you had any bonuses to your money income from awhile back, it shouldn't be difficult to clear out his shop
kind cloud
Yeah, I managed to buy 4 of the 6 items. In retrospect, I shouldn't have bought the Daedaus Hammer. And I didn't even get the ability I wanted.
native ether
It's 900 alone for 3rd hammer and Hermes boon. 150/350 depending on what rarities of boons, 100/250 for poms, 125 for hearts
wheat elbow
The last few rooms give a huge amount of money though
So at least getting the hammer seems very possible.
native ether
It also depends on your luck. You can get 200 gold from the Obol room if it's one of the elite wings
kind cloud
Daedalus Hammer was 500. @native ether
native ether
Daedalus Hammer and Hermes boon combined are 900. Hammer is 500, Hermes is 400
kind cloud
Oh, I somehow didn't read the 2nd part of your original sentence.
native ether
Most people will probably want to buy both because. (Which I would caution against but /shrug)
Lol no worries
I personally only think the Hermes boon is worth buying if:
- You're doing a cast run. Even a chance at that new Legendary or Rapid Cast is godsend.
- You need something like + dashes for a dash heavy build, or + attack speed on an ability.
Likewise with the hammer, I think it's definitely useful, but it may not be useful to get the third one, mainly cause your choices are so limited.
wheat elbow
Dodge Chance flat is also good
The one that gives dodge chance for wrath is as well.
native ether
My one exception is the Rail. Always get that 3rd hammer on the Rail. You'll end up getting Flurry Fire/Infinite Chamber, Explosive Fire, and Triple Bomb
kind cloud
?
native ether
It got nerfed hard, so did Chaos's Affluence
kind fiber
They removed the health scaling bonus, so now all it is is a bonus to your gold/darkness income
native ether
The health scaling became an Aphrodite boon
kind fiber
I know
kind fiber
I can't imagine taking oceans bounty amore
native ether
Life Affirmation is super good if you find it early. Less so imo later on.
kind fiber
anymore*
native ether
I can imagine it simply to buy out the Styx Market. Even a Rare Ocean Bounty is 50% more gold.
kind cloud
When I got a heart container at the Temple of Styx, it gave me 50 instead of 25 (285 to 335). I assumed that was become of the Poseidon ability I had.
native ether
Running into Styx with Affluence or Bounty pretty much guarantees you can buy out the Styx market if you walk in with a bit of cash
turbid needle
Tbh I was kinda disappointed when I noticed Affluence wasnt doing as much for me as it used to. Then disappointed again when Ocean Bounty did just as little.
native ether
My biggest question is if Vicious Torment affects Poison damage tbh
If it does, heat runs are in some major yikes trouble.
kind cloud
Yep, that would put it in YIKES territory.
native ether
Then again considering heat, at 500% dmg literally anything in there is an instant kill tbh
somber epoch
at 500% damage having a rogue thought kills zag
turbid needle
I tried 140% vicious torment, but I haven't played enough yet to notice if there was a difference from 0% in poison damage
native ether
Rats are 150 a melee hit. Bother Bombs are 120 a hit. Snakestones are 12 a hit and they hit very fast.
And the lasers are everywhere
turbid needle
I love Hades' dialogue when you use an Olympian's call during his fight
native ether
I definitely think some of the new Duo boons are going to be absolutely essential to high heat runs. I think Aphrodite / Athena Duo (slows down projectiles) is absolutely essential for a Frenzy based run.
turbid needle
It's those kind of touches that really make the characters feel alive in battle
kind fiber
so uhh
turbid needle
I definitely think some of the new Duo boons are going to be absolutely essential to high heat runs. I think Aphrodite / Athena Duo (slows down projectiles) is absolutely essential for a Frenzy based run.
Honestly this sounds problematic to me. I got really frustrated when I used to aim for really strong builds that could let me beat high heat runs, because I more often than not didn't get the RNG for them.
kind fiber
Cheron is offering me 3 poms of power
native ether
I mean in general with End Game Replayability being the next update focus, I'd expect some Pact changes, since lol I think 120 is going to be brutal now.
kind fiber
lol
native ether
In general I don't think you're beating 120 heat without one of the "broken combos"
At least now that is
turbid needle
Im excited to see what ideas they've got
As much as I realllly want the next weapon to come out, Im glad they're trying to improve the overall experience of Hades before getting into the finer points
kind fiber
So a Poseidon build with the hammer boon galloping wallop is hilarious in the new zone
I'm instantly clearing rooms
700+ knockback damage
kind fiber
Still haven't seen poseidon do well against a boss
sacred swallow
poseidon is my goto guy now with shield
turbid needle
With the new boss knockback, I was hoping he'd be viable against bosses. Idk if he is or isnt yet
Might be good in combination with some sorta zoning
Like a strong rail special
The knockback of attack could keep them inside the range of special
Idk
upbeat junco
so has anyone gotten any of the new boons so far and if so what do they do?
green birch
Sweet Nectar (Aphro/Seidon) makes poms give you +2 boost instead of +1
kind fiber
Aphro athena is enemy projectile speed is slowed by 60%
Impending doom (ares) increases doom damage by 65% (rare), but extends the duration of doom by .5 seconds
Billowing Strength (Zeus) gives you a damage buff for 5 seconds after you call upon a god
Life Affirmation (Aphrodite) gives you more value out of centaur hearts. ("Room health rewards" or some phrasing like that)
upbeat junco
ooo those are pretty good
kind fiber
Greater Recall (Hermes) causes casts to return to you automatically
Freak accident was removed and replaced with Lightning Rod (Zeus x Artemis). Which causes your "collectible" casts to deal 100 lightning damage to a nearby enemy every 1.5 seconds
kind fiber
The ones you can pick up off the ground
native ether
I think Poseidon is situationally pretty good against bosses
kind fiber
as opposed to like an active cast like ares's cast or dion's cast or possible casts that can't be collected at all
I just won with him against Hades
Seems okay?
not great, but okay?
native ether
Hydra he isn't as good but that's cause the Hydra fight has no walls
kind fiber
Also hydra doesn't suffer knockback
native ether
Theseus he can be amazing cause knockback doesn't care that he's holding up his shield.
native ether
Artemis / Aphro imo if you do anything crit related. Get their new Duo boon
kind fiber
I don't know what heart rend or exclusive access do yet
native ether
Heart Rend is 135% bonus crit damage to weak enemies.
kind fiber
Sounds OP, OP
native ether
That's about 7 times the damage of a base attack on a crit
upbeat junco
😮
native ether
And you get to add Weak to your arsenal
kind fiber
i don't know what vengeful mood does either
native ether
Vengeful Mood auto triggers your Revenge effects periodically
kind fiber
However second wind gives you 45% dodge for like 5 seconds when you "call a god"
native ether
So Holy Shield, Curse of Vengeance, Heavenly Vengeance, and the Aphrodite one.
upbeat junco
anyone gotten lightning phalanx
kind fiber
Naw not that one
What do you mean auto triggers?
Do you mean just the revenge boons you get from the gods?
native ether
Pretty sure it makes your Phalanx cast bounce between foes (Phalanx)
Yeah so it'll trigger those effects just by being around enemies, in addition to when you take damage.
kind fiber
Is it random or predictable?
upbeat junco
also did anyone get lightning rod?
native ether
Lightning Rod is amazing
kind fiber
Is it all of them simultaneously or just one of your revenges?
yeah
i mentioned lightning rod up there
I didn't have a good build for lightning rod
native ether
But you need a build that works for it. If you enable it it's godly
kind fiber
but it would certainly be great if you had like 6+ extra casts
Ideally with the Artemis effect to cause them to drop quickly
native ether
It requires you to sink a bunch of boons into Artemis to make it worthwhile. But it's good
kind fiber
So how does vengeful mood specifically work?
Does it consistantly trigger all your revenge boons like every 2 or so seconds? Randomly? Or does it only trigger a random revenge boon?
native ether
I think it hits a nearby 3 enemies every 5 seconds?
kind fiber
Does it trigger one of your revenge boons or all of them?
native ether
Think it's all? Hard for me to tell
upbeat junco
is sniper shot good enough to take over triple shot after the buff?
torn moss
does anyone else think the other two fury sisters are way too powercrept compared to meg
every time i run into meg it's basically free
native ether
Meg isn't a free run on high heat cause double adds
kind fiber
Does anyone know what exclusive access does?
calm sable
can't wait for the inevitable triple fury boss fight 
kind fiber
I'm curious as to what will come after hades
Deleting my comments cuz they might have been considered spoilers
kind fiber
Eh?
faint sundial
anyone else have info on the new duos
kind fiber
I posted some information in chat a bit up there
faint sundial
k ill search for it
kind fiber
not that far up
calm sable
Kind of an odd one? Didn't expect a weird passive effect like that but it's kinda neat tbh
Wouldn't be surprised if it ended up getting reworked into something more proactive though
kind fiber
Yeah I don't like it
I guess theoretically, it makes them easier to deflect, but I don't really care for it.
calm sable
I also didn't really end up noticing it because I ran into Theseus and Asterius soon after, and then up in Styx the rooms were too small to notice any projectiles lol
and there are a lot of beams rather than projectiles up there too
faint sundial
the pom one and exclusive access are really timing specific, run-wise...
like +2 to all poms is pretty great but
kind fiber
Yeah, the pom one also kinda falls off fast as well seeing as how they drop in value
faint sundial
still they are interesting designs and can usually get tweaked one way or the other
kind fiber
I was lucky to get 3 poms of power at the final charon shop tho
faint sundial
the lightning rod one seems a little derivative compared to festive fog
spice turret
Holy beans! I just got exclusive access, and I'm impressed
faint sundial
they nerfed athena+ares right?
spice turret
Like, I resumed a run from before the update, and I got that
faint sundial
i got exclusive access in styx, feelsbadman
kind fiber
Yeah, they did. I haven't seen the boon tho so I don't know how much
Exclusive access is all boons are at least epic quality right?
faint sundial
yessir
calm sable
What are the prerequisites?
kind fiber
Probably just a basic boon from each
calm sable
I assume the boons from Poseidon and Dionysus that affect the other collectibles you can get if there are any
kind fiber
Since it doesn't require any specific boons to "work"
calm sable
makes sense
I don't know if the Aphrodite/Artemis one had any but I did go pretty far into Aphrodite's weakness boons before it showed up
native ether
Ability related boon from each
calm sable
Artemis was just the cast
native ether
For Dio/Poseidon and Poseidon/Aphro
fathom jasper
passive damadge with zeus and the wargod is prety good,all zeus build mainly is good at getting the final boss in the world
calm sable
yeah Zeus stacks with himself so well
heavy vapor
Duo boons usually have specific requirements.
calm sable
Double lightning and the lightning AoE increase are great
and then Bolt Dash remains one of the best boons imo
faint sundial
^
native ether
I've got I think all the effects of the new duos. They'll be on the wiki page soon tm (as soon as I can get the chance to update it)
calm sable
appreciated! 
native ether
I won't have the graphics, but the info at least will be there.
I also made a placeholder page for the Styx biome I'll start chipping away at as well. (I'm sure mods will help out as well when they get around to it)
faint sundial
ironically they combo best with the non-invulerability Wraths
native ether
I do think now though that 120 Heat is only gonna be beatable on specific "broken combos"
calm sable
I've never really managed to pull that off on 120 heat just because of losing the mirror boon rarity increase
Up to RNG, I suppose
native ether
I'm honestly expecting the pact to go through some fairly extensive rework eventually though because the Pact doesn't feel like it scales nearly as well past Asphodel.
calm sable
Yeah
native ether
Which is understandable given the pact was introduced in the first update primarily as a way to keep players interested as they released the next 2 updates to lay the groundwork for Elysium.
upbeat junco
wait I saw that there was a third hammer in styx
calm sable
500gs 
upbeat junco
am I able to pick one up as a room reward or do I have to buy it?
calm sable
I think it's purchase only
upbeat junco
😭
native ether
There is both a 3rd Hammer and 3rd Hermes boon available in Styx. They're only purchasables, and they're always offered.
upbeat junco
big oof
native ether
500 default for Hammer, 400 for Hermes
calm sable
What's a potential fun triple hammer combo
Sword peaks at getting both of the Nova ones so I don't know if it's worth the purchase there
native ether
Explosive Rail Flurry Fire Triple Bomb. You're getting stuck in my Triple Bomb onslaught and there nothing you get to do about it.
upbeat junco
so I just found a pool of purging to sell some boons, if I was to sell am I able to get the chance at the hammer again?
native ether
Bonus points if you have crits on your Triple Bomb, super duper bonus points if you build Weak and have Heart Rend.
First run in Styx? Just curious :p
upbeat junco
yes
calm sable
Yeah, you have to clear three of the provided corridors before you can leave
And only three, the rest lock off afterwards
somber epoch
uh, no
native ether
You'll have a teleport to the hub shop after every wing of Styx.
somber epoch
you can do it in 1
upbeat junco
ok
somber epoch
yep
calm sable
Do they still lock off?
native ether
You'll have to clear at most 3 chambers. It's RNG and afaik can never spawn in an Elite chamber.
somber epoch
they do once you talk to dog, i think
calm sable
Ah
native ether
Nope! You can clear the entire biome even if you talk to Cerberus.
calm sable
Was gonna say that kinda sucks otherwise lol
autumn tapir
yeah you can still go back after giving Cerberus his snacc
native ether
Be warned the only heal you get in Styx that's guaranteed is with the Dog Treats though.
calm sable
the +3 for all of the doors is nice at least
native ether
You get that early and you're clearing the remaining wings with no heal
calm sable
man I imagine that's gonna be annoying for speedruns
native ether
And afaik the treats can't ever spawn in an Elite wing, but I'm not entirely certain. I've done a couple runs and those always have a souped up enemy.
Unfortunately yeah since atm it's not predictable.
upbeat junco
wow that chamber was weird
just did a mini boss chamber for a boon and the elite satyr was annoying
native ether
Oh yeah the elites minibosses of Styx are painful
Pink Snakestone especially, he's real rude.
toxic acorn
The sack can be in an elite path
upbeat junco
ok so either aphro aid or 15% damage resist :/
Omg
I was on the last path of Styx and my computer crashed
Hopefully it saved
The room I was in was a satyr storage or something
What does the sack do?
native ether
Can it? Ok then I just never got that I guess.
toxic acorn
You give the sack to Cerberus
native ether
The Sack simply allows you to leave Styx and face the final challenge
toxic acorn
And he leaves so you can fight the big bad
upbeat junco
ok am I able to pick up both the pom and the sack?
native ether
The Sack allows you to move past Cerberus and thru the big door he's guarding that leads to the surface
kind fiber
Yes
toxic acorn
Yes
upbeat junco
ok guys here I go
kind fiber
You probably can't avoid picking up the sack
native ether
Yep, you get the pom, the sack, and the large healing fountain behind it
native ether
Usually it's pretty good about that.
toxic acorn
I'd really like to talk about my #hades-feedback thing about said big bad's summons.
the first phase has a lot of waiting
native ether
I agree. I think if he just spawned them it would help
upbeat junco
ok wish me luck against the big bad
native ether
I think the biggest reason he has the phases is just so particular builds cant instantly delete him.
toxic acorn
yeah, kinda like how alecto does it (i think?) Or how thesus used to summon chariots
Well, i always assumed the invisible part was to eat up 20 second calls
native ether
And tbf I know of exactly one build that can absolutely delete the big bad, and yes, it's Hunting Blades lol.
toxic acorn
15s, whatever :p
native ether
I assumed invul periods are to counter overpowered builds just so you have to actually survive a minimum amount of time.
calm sable
Hunting Blades could take on olympus tbh
native ether
Hunting Blades is god. Its literally just an Olympian god
toxic acorn
lmao
calm sable
🙏
toxic acorn
Bouncy Athena casts are also pretty frickin sweet
kind fiber
So I had like 40+ seconds of invulnerability in the hades fight across 2 max wrath usages of athena's wrath
native ether
Like sure you can get the Ares legendary and sure it's double busted but it's just "lol take one of the highest damaging skills in the game and remove its one downside"
kind fiber
I think it might be too powerful
native ether
I think the only disadvantage hunting blades has is that it does require proper setup tbh.
toxic acorn
I think I used athena's greater call 4 or 5 times and a one-tick twice during that fight. It's definitely too strong.
But i had both charging boons (maybe just Zeus's)
native ether
Athena's call is very strong. I suspect it'll be very good in high heat runs because it's literally a no u button.
toxic acorn
That's how i beat 50 heat pear, i could probably have beat him on 120 with the build i had. Shields too good
It felt like i got hit twice and i had greater call lmao
kind cloud
TILT: Satyr
I did not know that was a thing. Thank you Supergiant Games and Google.
native ether
I honestly have no idea what the 120 heat strat is gonna be.
I honestly don't think 500% damage is viable. So much instances of damage in Styx to make that a problem.
I also don't think maxed Frenzy is viable. Can you imagine Satyrs with 50% move speed lol
kind cloud
200 heat run INCOMING!!!
Supergiant Games: lol, no
toxic acorn
Agree there
native ether
Imagine Satyrs with 50% move speed and projectile speed
toxic acorn
Probably have to use -2 choices for sure. Dunno if you were already using that for Elysium
native ether
Nah I'm the mad lad who used 500% only and cleared 120 with the Rail XD
toxic acorn
Heat sucks but idk, i kinda want to win 120 just to get that statue and get it over with lol
upbeat junco
first try
native ether
The minus 2 choices works for very few weapons imo. Definitely not the rail since you need good hammers.
toxic acorn
+2 hits isn't that bad, -2 choices really sucks but it's doable if you're lucky. 500 darkness is fine but i like 1000 more hah
upbeat junco
so that fight took all 4 of my lives
native ether
Yeah I'm not surprised lol. That fight can be brutal
toxic acorn
+50% enemies, +50% health for sure. Add damage until you hit 120? I wouldn't ever touch less healing. Could bump shop prices
I hate hate hate whipped frenzy though lol
kind cloud
Ares' Vicious Cycle FTW!
native ether
I already had max shop prices, max death insurance, max enemies and max enemy health lol
native ether
And max darkness. I'll have to fiddle around with it. Right now I'm still going for my old strat, to see if I'm actually wrong about high dmg and Styx.
Also yes petting the best boi is the best change
toxic acorn
Cut some of the damage for veil i guess.
Maybe poseidon attack would help get through styx? Knockback damage and all
Idk
native ether
He would yeah.
I think my default strategy is going to be Triple Bomb Artemis Crit, lean into Hunting Blades
Grab Aphro attack if I can for Heart Rend and keeping me alive.
(I have a seed with Hammer in room 1 giving me triple bomb I'm likely just gonna replay for a while lol)
If I can't do it with the rail, then I'll just wait until I can :kappa: (cause I don't really enjoy using the shield atm)
toxic acorn
fair
junior pasture
Got beat by the last boss and I mostly blame that ball enemy that makes butterflies
Why does that have so much health!
AND homing slow "bullets"
marsh pawn
how do I change the first boon which is the hammer to a God's boon? sometimes I manage to do that after several resets by messing in the lobby, but I dont know exactly how I do that
marsh pawn
yes, but I can manage to do that without dying, but takes a lot odf tries
I would like to know exaclty how to change
toxic acorn
otherwise there's a random chance for a "perfect landing" but it's not replicable
replicatable?
whatever that word is. Perfect landings also reset rng, to my knowledge
marsh pawn
whats a perfect landing?
toxic acorn
It's just a different animation to my knowledge. It's random, though. I'm not very informed on it, i know that an intentional death will reset the rng
marsh pawn
those were hades appear?
marsh pawn
theres things that can be done to get the god's boon instead the hammer, heart, etc.. but I got to mess a lot and try many times that sometimes gets boring
I hate to start with anything else instead ares boon
they should make 100% the god's boon in the first room if you pick the god amulet
toxic acorn
Looks like maybe dashing as you hit the ground causes it? Or attacking as you jump out the window?
That's from a message in here back in like, April
I don't know
marsh pawn
yes this makes the perfect landing
but still gives the hammer instead the gods boo
boon
toxic acorn
That's just the seed, man
marsh pawn
yes but what im telling? Im telling that I can reset the seed but i dont know how i do it
im sking how to reset, exactly
coz im sick of having to mess for 10 minutes to reset the seed
toxic acorn
To my knowledge, a perfect landing resets the seed. I don't know for certain though
Err, it gives you a new seed. Maybe. I'm not sure, i haven't looked at the game's code
marsh pawn
i did a perfect landing and still got the same boon, the hammer
toxic acorn
Then you might have gotten 2 seeds in a row with the hammer first?
This is all assuming perfect landings reset rng which i don't know for certain in the first place. I'm sorry I can't be of more help
I know for a fact that dying will give you a new seed, though
marsh pawn
what I do is, change weapons and amulets, hit the skeleton, talk, change, hit, etc... like for 1 minute
and sometimes
it gets me a new seed
if not i reset i do all over again till i get
it takes 2 tries sometimes
but mostly takes 10+
its very wierd
upbeat junco
jeez and I thought T&A would be hard on 120 heat
kind fiber
Invigorating blast + zeus wrath seems good
upbeat junco
my most recent run I didn't get my first hammer until elysium, and I didn't get an attack boon until styx so that was a little annoying
but when I got my first hammer I got my second hammer after 2 rooms and I had twin perfect shot
lost rose
B^)
well i can say i beat it on my own merits now
tawny viper
Straightforward question: do boons that affect attack (like artemis' "deal more dmg and have 20% chance to crit on attack") affect when you dash-attack aswell? Or just dash attack boons affecting dash attacks.
covert grove
Perfect Landing just alters the seed temporarily and can change what you start with but not always. Only true way to reset a seed is to die or win. I usually just turn off all Death Defiances and turn up Vicious Torment to 500% if I'm looking for something in particular.
Changing keepsakes, interacting with Skelly or changing your weapon can alter your seed slightly, usually resulting in different enemies in the first room (you'll still get the same starting boon/hammer) and then the rooms after also
kind fiber
@tawny viper Dash attacks benefit from boons/effects that buff your regular attack
fluid moat
Rooms in general are usually seeded about 2-3 in advance as well, so if somehow you crash your game or backload they can itterate the same. But the difficulty is usually seeded the same for those next couple of rooms
everything haelian said is correct from what I've seen and know
tough echo
Any OP Duo Boons so far?
grand pollen
https://imgur.com/a/HigIF08 New record for time =), sub 20 here I come!
kind fiber
@tough echo Aphrodite + Artemis is pretty great
tough echo
Heart Rend yes?
kind fiber
Yeah
tough echo
Just looking into the livestream. Darren knock it out good.
kind fiber
Athena cast + zeus attack, special, dash or call
tough echo
It has to be Athena cast? Nothing else?
kind fiber
Yes
atomic star
Was hunting blades removed at some point?
tough echo
This should be fun. Thanks O Ascended One.
kind fiber
You can't modify her cast without her cast
tough echo
Have you seen Zeus + Ares?
kind fiber
@atomic star No? Thats Ares + artemis duo boon right? No its still in the game
@tough echo Nope, but I heard what it does
upbeat junco
what are some good builds for this patch?
tough echo
It's cool.
Sometimes it's fun to figure things out yourself.
In the livestream...
There's this one Duo Boon, but it was not mentioned in the patch notes.
I think it was Aphrodite + Athena, and it slows down projectiles, but I can't find it in the patch notes.
kind fiber
Yeah, I know
Didn't seem good
Dunno if its in the patch notes, but I did pick it up
tough echo
I say slowing down projectiles are decent in some ways.
kind fiber
Well, as an independent boon that would be fine
but its attached to athena
Athena already deflects stuff
Deflect is extremely good at nullifying most projectiles
What more do you really need?
atomic panther
It gives a bunch more time to react to things, and to line up deflects
kind fiber
Seems like overkill IMO
tough echo
Last question: Zeus + Aphrodite?
atomic panther
Overkill isn't a bad thing imo
tough echo
Welp. Zeus has 5 Duo Boons so I guess I know this patch metas.
kind fiber
Eh, overkill means wasted value
If you are already killing things in 1 strike, increasing your damage doesn't help you kill things faster.
tough echo
Activate Whipped Frenzy
kind fiber
I was going to wait to use the pact until after the full game was out honestly
slender wing
Is there an Athena Posidon duo boon?
slender wing
Okay thanks
atomic panther
In terms of damage, I could never consider an amount of damage too much. Bosses, especially T + M, have a ridiculous amount of health. In terms of utility, there is hardly ever a time where I will decry extra functionality. In my experience so far, the slowed projectiles are incredibly useful when your deflects are either not easily accessible (such as on a revenge or call boon) or not easy to land (such as on rail attack/special). In these cases, the slowed projectiles both help land the deflects and help to avoid projectiles when you can't (or can't easily) deflect.
atomic panther
They still got a lot
kind fiber
Sure? If you have a 1% chance to deal 1000 times your normal damage, you will likely lose alot of value just because you are overkilling things unless their health pools are large enough to offset the randomness. What I was getting at was more that, when your build is already capable of dealing with something plenty well, you don't need a thing that makes you deal with the thing you are already dealing with even easier. Its kinda like the concept of win-more effects from card games.
atomic panther
And I'm saying that there are reasonably achievable situations that the utility isn't wasted.
kind fiber
I think that any situations like that are marginal at best
The thing off the top of my head that I would like to move 60% slower is the archers arrows in elysium, I can't think of anything else
atomic panther
To each their own, then, because I will gladly have every projectile move 60% slower
kind fiber
At the cost of a boon slot?
no thank you
Or rather
A desirable boon
I also wouldn't want to warp my build specifically to find that boon
If I happened to find it, that would be fine, but ehhhhh
faint sundial
well to put it into perspective, two of the other new duo boons
are purely economic
poseidon+aphrodite and poseidon+dionysus
extremely run-timing dependent
so relative to others, athena+aphrodite is so-so
though with those gods i would worry about damage output...
whole raft
atomic panther
Yeah, Aphrodite has a decent damage output now
faint sundial
i forgot she has the buff +dmg vs weak
that's decent
u think we'll ever get duos for hermes?
kind fiber
No
tough echo
Poseidon boons works so well in Temple~
kind fiber
Hermes offers bonuses for our abilities. There isn't a boon that I could think of that he would pair up with someone else to do
Yep
I ran poseidon through the temple and it was a joke
Most rooms were over by the time I attacked twice
stoic crest
Hermes did have some interesting dialogue about Ares that could potentially hint to one , but it's hard to think of who would be best to pair with him.
Also In the temple of Styx, are those cobra crystals ( didn't get to catch their official names) supposed to go far off screen if a run has a boon with a knock-back effect? I had Poseidon's dash boon and the knock back kept pushing them out of bounds. Even Ares's rift blade couldn't hit them. only the rail gun and cast that I was using
faint sundial
i understand why mechanically it would be difficult to design anthing on that front for hermes
i suppose the lore doesnt require duos for him really...
kind fiber
In terms of effects his thing is "make things happen faster", how would you combine that with anything else in such a way that isn't just gimmicky?
Go 30% faster when you deflect things?
kind fiber
Yeah, hes just not meant for duoing IMO
faint sundial
i just wanted parity between the pantheon, lore-wise
but his boons are already hammer-like so.....
kind fiber
yep
faint sundial
is your profile pic a dice-man?
kind fiber
Yes
faint sundial
followup: do you know/follow dicey dungeons?
faint sundial
gotcha, was trying to place it
nova meteor
hermes is just a weird one , what with his boon being a room-based increase and all
i think it's thematically fitting that a god dealing with underworld stuff would be separate from the rest of the pantheon
kind fiber
His keepsake you mean
tough echo
bLOODY urns!
kind fiber
I mean, I don't know how much hermes dealt with the underworld specifically in the mythology, but hes a messager god
He probably travels often to various locations, and we've never seen him in the underworld so I don't know why you would consider him separate from the rest of pantheon
faint sundial
his job
his domain is de-localized
all other gods have 'themes' hermes is just a go-getting jack of all trades in the Hades-verse.
kind fiber
Well his theme is going faster
kind cloud
The poison effect is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in a game. And yes, I absolutely mean dumbest and not most infuriating.
Even on non-heat runs, this thing is a killer. I take more damage from that than anything else. I just lost 60 points of life in 5 seconds in 0 heat run.
What. The. F###.
I'm putting that here because I don't have access to the feedback channel.
And oh btw, nice troll job putting one of the cure wells in between 2 snake heads which fire spinning metal blades.
finite grail
check the pins in feedback to gain access
tough echo
Exclusive Access is... exclusive.
kind cloud
@finite grail Thanks. Just joined.
I don't know if this is a bug or perhaps I didn't see it clearly but here goes:
When Hades fired his multi-beam in phase 2, I dashed in and used Ares Wrath. If I stayed in the center, I took no damage even when the rift ended. It happened three times, so I was curious if anyone else experienced something similar.
I can't wait to see some of the runs posted on youtube.
@grand pollen You finished your run in roughly 20 minutes? Very impressive.
It took me 51 minutes. I want to see how people are playing and why there's such a big variance.
turbid needle
I've been hitting around the 30 minute mark, shorter if I don't milk Styx.
upbeat junco
my best run was just now at 31 minutes with the bow
what are the best weapons for this patch?
kind cloud
I can't see myself beating the 4 biomes in under 35 minutes. Speedrunning has never been my thing. My fastest run after Hermes updates was 25 or 26 minutes iirc.
@upbeat junco There were some instances in Temple of Styx where I felt one of the shortcomings of the Stygian Blade: it has no long-range attack which meant I couldn't snipe some annoying enemies and had to dash all over the place to get in position for an attack.
And I usually don't use Artemis so I don't have access to her long-range, seeking attacks.
nova meteor
i might have gained 2 min from sitting on the other side of a chasm hitting a rat with an un-booned shield special
kind cloud
At least the shield can go reasonably far. With the Stygian Blade, I have no choice but to rely on short-range or AOE attacks.
atomic star
I know all you speedrunners hate it, but I feel like there should be an achievement: "Always in the last place you look" when the Temple of Styx item is literally in the last room and you cleared all the others.
upbeat junco
I'd say Elysium and Styx are probs the worst areas for melee weapons, because alot of the enemies have very strong short range attacks and then in elysium there are the flame wheels
nova meteor
also it's kind of funny that after the overgorged spirits of sinners, flaming skeletons, and the long-past souls of the greatest warriors
the thing that gives our hardy prince the most trouble is some oversized rodents
upbeat junco
and in styx there is the poison coming from the giant rats and the satyrs shooting the pretty much unavoidable darts if your in melee range
nova meteor
i think there was probably a narrator post-win quote about that actually
turbid needle
Rodents Of Unusual Size ain't no one's fool.
upbeat junco
I usually use the bow and rail so I don't often get hit by those attacks (excluding the satyrs)
@nova meteor yea i think that was after the hydra fight, the narrator would say some seemingly harmless rodents would kill you
now we step on a farm tool and hit hits us in the forehead instakilling us
turbid needle
"A very deadly beetle."
kind cloud
Hollow Knight has entered the chat
upbeat junco
deadly beetles, harmless rodents and farm tools.... Zagreus' worst enemies
so after going through styx, im under the impression that a poison rail build would not be very good now
well it might be, but the enemies have so much health and there isn't really much that increases the damage of the poison to a level suitable for styx
How well does new Poseidon rupture work on bosses? Because I was thinking maybe a Pos rail build might be alright if the rupture damage is good enough
tough echo
imo so and so
atomic panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/608523081979265034/Hades_00236.png
Randomly remembered that bug in feedback a while ago talking about how if you hit Skelly right before entering a run it softlocks you. Turns out, that still happens
I have 110 gold bc I went and destroyed the gold urn in the chamber first
grand pollen
@kind cloud I dunno? I just kinda go. I think my longest run I've beaten ever, was in the last update I had like a 35 minute bow run, but every other weapon I had times under 25
kind cloud
Question for the speedrunners: if I clear a room but spend time smashing vases looking for extra coin, is that time registered?
turbid needle
RIP
nova meteor
anybody find use out of the purging fountains yet? they all just seem to be not worth the trouble
i mean presumably you picked boons that were good, why give them up for a chance at another good boon? an epic boon doesn't even refund enough to grab a boon from charon iirc
upbeat junco
@kind cloud yes that time is registered. Also if you're looking for coins from the vases, look for gold vases they're the only ones the drop coins.
well sometimes you might be forced to pick up boons that are unrelated to the build
kind cloud
@upbeat junco Yeah, I know the gold vases drop coins for sure but occasionally some non-gold vases drop coins too.
upbeat junco
well if your looking to complete runs as fast as possible, spending time to destroy vases for a low chance at getting 10 coins isn't worth it
kind cloud
I agree
turbid needle
I've had instances where even a good starting selection of boons was completely outdone by another synergy I picked up later.
upbeat junco
I generally just complete the room and run straight to the next chamber, if I see a gold vase on the way I'll destroy it, or if I need a well I'll spend time looking for it
but most of the time I don't need one
turbid needle
Like the time I picked up Hunting Blades and then shortly afterwards got Merciful End.
Either of those will carry a run on their own, so I could have safely sold Blade Rifts OR my ME triggers.
upbeat junco
I might try a merciful end run with rail what upgrades and boons should I go for?
turbid needle
Divine Dash is almost always the best option for Merciful End.
Only one that I'd say compares is Divine Flourish on Nova.
I'd go for Explosive Fire and Curse of Attack.
upbeat junco
then either flurry or shotgun
turbid needle
Infinity Chamber wouldn't be terrible here.
upbeat junco
yea I usually pick inf chamber if flurry, shotgun or explosive is not there
upbeat junco
is there anyway that I can change the seed of the next run without having to go through all my lives and die
also i don't know if I'm just really unlucky but for the past couple runs, unless I started with the hammer, I didn't get it until late asphodel or elysium and I don't get attack boons on the gods I want until late elysium or styx
grand pollen
Well I got my sub 20
And my sub 19
and my sub 18
Most crazy run I've ever played, one of the most crazy I've ever seen. I killed the final boss in under 50 seconds.
upbeat junco
Nice
proud storm
Jesus christ
grand pollen
I lied, he actually died in like 1:30, but still
Just the fight itself
Also shows off boons
toxic acorn
@untold trellis Hades' cast applied boiling blood for x2 damage on you.
grand pollen
Yeah, he's basically you, but not.
untold trellis
And if didn't destroy the projectiles on the ground he could pick them up and recast them faster?
upbeat junco
if you don't destroy the projectiles a massive shockwave will cross the entire arena
kind cloud
@grand pollen Thanks for posting that. The action is happening so quickly, I'm not even sure what's happening. Can you give me (us) a quick summary of what your build is and what you're trying to do?
kind fiber
@kind cloud Looks like its a dash + special build that found explosive return. I think all he is doing is spamming his dash and special for extra damage
He was lucky enough to find the artemis legendary which is why the arrows are flying around
kind cloud
Yeah, I noticed the Artemis Legendary which gave Zagreus extra seeking shots and always identified invisible Hades when Hades tried to play hide-and-seek.
This leads me to ask a question I've wondered:
Is it better to build on just 2-3 abilities (dash, special, cast, etc) or deliberately try to fill each slot with a boon?
The longer I play the game, the more convinced I become that it's better to maximize 2-3 slots rather than build out the entire arsenal.
kind cloud
Yeah, lol
kind fiber
Hades only goes invisible 1 time, and he doesn't really try to look for him
he just dashes around in a circle
He aint some surelock holmes type detective here
kind cloud
After watching that video, I'm thinking "Well, damn...maybe my approach is completely wrong or at least non-optimal"
kind fiber
Well
kind cloud
@kind fiber I've faced Hades 2 times and each time he disappeared many times. Then again, that boss fight is a long battle for me so perhaps Hades has more opportunities to disappear.
kind fiber
My approach has always been 1 or 2 primary things max
Yeah I know that he disappears many times, it just sounded like you were impressed because he "always identified invisible hades" or something
kind cloud
Really? I get nervous and a bit annoyed if I don't have at least 4 of the 5 slots filled out.
kind fiber
My approach has basically been, fill out slots to make getting specific boons more likely, otherwise, only build for specific boons
Well, uh, theres no reason to
You have like one primary damage option, maybe a secondary and everything else doesn't matter at all
kind cloud
I like having options...many of which I don't end up using. So it seems I need to streamline my approach.
kind fiber
Swapping between 2 primary damage options is not going to increase your damage in most cases
upbeat junco
just got to hades, trying the merciful end build
kind fiber
Like the rail gun special needs you to split between two damage types because you can't constantly fire it, and if you grab the cast boon from hermes, you can unload your casts pretty quickly and get back to damaging
Otherwise, any perk that isn't increasing effectiveness of your primary damage option is a waste
upbeat junco
ok so the merciful end build is pretty cool
kind cloud
@kind fiber Agree. Makes sense. I need to change my approach to building my arsenal.
grand pollen
@kind cloud I'm streaming more runs if you're interested in watching and stuff.
kind cloud
I am. Link?
upbeat junco
I just got an ares boon that increases boon damage after 0.5 seconds
what does that mean
does it mean that the doom effect takes 0.5 seconds longer but the damage is increased?
ok it does mean that
upbeat junco
new speed record with Merciful End Rail 25:34
tough echo
God bless...
atomic star
Do you guys think every item on the pact of punishment is fine? Are they all "fun"?
wheat elbow
No.
There is no universe where that question can be answered with "Yes" as long as Tenebrous Veil exists.
grand pollen
@kind cloud https://www.twitch.tv/mmewerefox
kind cloud
Thanks.
turbid needle
I just had 7 straight Fated Authorities bounce between Posiedon and Dionysus.
Why is this possible?
upbeat junco
I think thats how it works. If it starts on Aphrodite, it will go to Ares -> Artemis -> Ares -> Artemis and so on
turbid needle
That sounds like a really bad mechanic, though.
upbeat junco
from what I've seen, the gods are grouped together so if you get Aphro you can reroll to artemis and ares
and if you get like Athena, it will reroll to Poseidon, Zeus and Dio i believe
It's weird but I like it since you know to an extent what your going to reroll into
so as long as you've got a god in either group 1 or 2, you can reroll into another god in the same group
turbid needle
Zeus has five duo boons. Why am I getting locked to two of them?
upbeat junco
what do you mean?
turbid needle
Locking the room to one of two gods, ESPECIALLY when potentially neither of them have anything to offer my build is infuriating.
It's locking me out of the choices the game said it would give me.
I lost the opportunity for Poms, or cash, or a Centaur Heart.
Or literally any other god which would have been much better for my build at that time.
upbeat junco
oh are you trying to reroll a miniboss room with a boon as a reward?
turbid needle
It may have been, now that I think about it.
Still, strapping me to Poseidon or Dio isn't a good feature.
upbeat junco
if it is a miniboss room with a boon reward it will only roll to boons
turbid needle
I know it will always give me an Olympian.
upbeat junco
was the reward before you rolled either Athena or Zeus?
turbid needle
It was a Zeus room.
upbeat junco
yea so it was in group 2 or whatever so it will only roll to 2 other gods, and it chose Poseidon and Dio
turbid needle
That's awful.
upbeat junco
I like it because you can predict what your going to roll and start roll to get gods you want
pastel jolt
it’s weird that it only refilled to god boons, unless the others in the gold pool were already present
turbid needle
That doesn't help if the initial Olympian doesn't help your build, like what happened to me.
Then I just get screwed out of ANY benefit.
It was the Tartarus Bloodless fight, so I understand why and am okay with it staying with boons.
I'm not okay with it picking two boons and removing all other choice for me.
upbeat junco
fair enough
I'm not sure if it works but if you pick a god keepsake in the group with a god you want, you might be able to reroll it. Last time I tried it rerolled into the other group but it might've changed
turbid needle
Doesn't. Keepsakes only proc the first spawn.
upbeat junco
ok
wheat elbow
@covert grove I actually tried the chaos egg thing.
First time I did, Chaos did not show himself for two biomes straight, so that was a blast.
Second time, I got the money boost in the very first room, but it only increased the gains by 90%, epic rarity.
That was still enough to enable me to buy out pretty much everything everywhere always, last shop included.
atomic panther
Jevil voice: *Chaos, Chaos*
errant narwhal
@opaque merlin i just watched a stream and saw the spear get stuck on a pillar, so im pretty sure your feedback is not the case? but the pillars are pretty finicky.
faint carbon
yeah they definitely can get stuck on the pillars but it feels quite often that they don't when they should
opaque merlin
Must have been a quirk of isometry, then
Regardless, I got hit when I was very certain I was safe
errant narwhal
yeah, thats what i mean by finicky hehe
opaque merlin
heh, right
errant narwhal
im gonna delete it as its not the case, if you dont mind
opaque merlin
I don't think my minding is relevant, haha. Delete away
covert grove
@wheat elbow I think they lowered the gold bonuses from Chaos, I've noticed it only ranging from 50-100%
toxic acorn
@vague tree it is intentional, plume and butterfly only proc on fast/nodamage clears of the last (bigger) room
wheat elbow
@covert grove It was way off the charts before, so it's only fair I guess. And 90% extra was really all it took.
hushed ledge
i was so close to winning with 1750 darkness 😦
terse tiger
Last night i completed a run with the reworked Exploding Launcher for the spear. Combined with Artemis special and her new marked boon, I was absolutely erasing enemies. I had a Chaos damage bump as well, but my crits were in the mid 600s. It seems like once you get a "crit chain" going with the new marked boon, you are gonna clean house pretty easily.
wheat hamlet
is there a cheat sheet for the duo boons and their effects?
stable oyster
Wiki
wheat elbow
So something fun that happened in my last run:
I received the Athena Artemis Duoboon.
Haven't met Artemis during the entire run even once.
stable oyster
Juicy
wheat elbow
She even was called upon by Theseus later down the road.
wheat hamlet
@stable oyster the wiki only tells about the individual boons i believe
stable oyster
Was the last boon artimis or no?
autumn tapir
that's like artemis sending a postcard saying "sorry champ I'll be there next year"
stable oyster
Lol that’s incredible
wheat elbow
There was no Artemis Boon for me at all during the entire run
I mean, I appreciated it!
Because suddenly, I was critting for over 1.1k again
But dayum
stable oyster
They changed a bunch of the requirements, this must have been an unintentional side effects
wheat elbow
I agree.
I'd wager that I was supposed to receive another Duo Boon. Not sure which one though.
I will upload that video later or tomorrow or so, so you can check it out.
That reminds me, if I do have recordings from bugs like that showing up, is it cool to include them in bug reports later on?
Screenshots can only say so much.
stable oyster
I think they just took all the art boon requirements out of the four
Duo
also sends them your save file
terse tiger
@frosty pier how is it bugged? I haven't had a chance to use it much. Also, don't forgot to report the bug! :D
frosty pier
You can be knocked out of it
I didnt took a crutch to be invincible just to be rammed by hydra head...or a minataur... or literally everyone who can push Zag aside.
terse tiger
That's weird... So you are taking damage even though you are using a Call?
placid plinth
Are you tired from getting endless bottles of Ambrosia that you don't need anymore since you already maxed all relationships?
Try Premium Vintage!
That simple boon that gives you max health when you get Ambrosia, guarantees that you won't see any bottle for the rest of this run!
nova pebble
I won my first run with that boon pre patch. Turns out minotaur and theseus arent that scary if you are sporting 300 health.
By the way does anyone else think the patch made the game much easier overall? Especially Elysium, it used to be about 50/50 for me to even get to Minotaur/Theseus, now I can do so everytime without fail.
terse tiger
They did reduce the health of Theseus and Asterus. Also, maybe you are getting better? :P
empty canopy
I think it's because the areas themselves a bit shorter, so there's less chances to get wrecked
ember lotus
There are also fewer rooms
terse tiger
Also, death defiance's are so much better now.
ember lotus
There used to be around 37 rooms before that fight
Now it's 32
Plus the boss antechamber
nova pebble
Its probably the defiance change, it recovers soo much health
Now that you say it, i was kind of thrown off as it made me think I had the boon that increases the health recovery
wheat elbow
I am so bad with the bow
unless I get something like explosive shot/tripple shot every run to overshadow that, I might as well notz pick up the weapon at all.
atomic star
I hate the bow too. Luckily they have other weapons.
atomic star
I think the bow wouldn't be too awful if you could do the quick fire thing by just repeatedly slamming on the "B" button, and if you wanted to charge it you could
and that wasn't a hammer upgrade
wheat elbow
Gotta be hinest
That hammer upgrade has contributed to a few losses for me.
Makes the game even mnore awkward
atomic star
Well, right it sucks when you're forced into it the full run. It would be nice if you were in a crazy situation to be able to just rapid fire
faint carbon
I like the bow it just feels difficult to dodge everything when you need to stand still to charge
faint carbon
compared to shield though, it's certainly a bit of a delay
maybe i'm just bad, but on 120 heat it feels like I need to keep moving all the time
hollow cliff
Does the bow have auto-aim on always?
Because I checked in controls and I have auto-aim disabled but it still snaps to enemies often
sacred swallow
they nerfed lambent plume?
autumn tapir
no
they buffed it
it now has clear times depending on the room rather than a flat 30 seconds
in other news, bow special builds are muy bueno, especially with Hunter's Mark
if you get Relentless Barrage, you basically pick a direction you want to remove from the game
median ridge
ayyyyy beat the new area for the first time
second try, got a really good athena/ares/artemis synergy and a ton of money so i could buy everything in the styx shop
grand patrol
🙌 🙌
blazing mulch
https://imgur.com/PI3BW12 4th try, and finally finished last biome 😃
green birch
Awesome! Great job!
limber cipher
Final boss is so, so hard and I love it. Still can't beat them after like 4 tries lol
So do they steal mirror upgrades with that one move? I got hit with it once and it just said "boiling blood" over zag. Can you get it back?
autumn tapir
He doesn't steal your upgrades, he just has Boiling Blood
pastel jolt
yeah
safe mesa
this time you've been marked
wheat elbow
My first go with the new Lambent Plume
Got the stack in almost every fight. Think I only missed out on the Hydra and Hades himself because the run was ridiculously overpowered.
26 Rooms + 1.2% = 31.2% MS and Dodge Chance.
Gotta say, this doesn't seem to be worth it at all anymore.
Not only is that much lkess than what you could have had before, you also only get this for pretty much perfect play and/or a strong run
while also forgoing the option of having up to four different keepsakes over the course of the run.
blazing mulch
my idea focused on speed, clear the room in a time to recover x/x/x amount of health at the end. what do you think? That could be great keepsake when we would like to clear rooms fast and we know that due of that we can lost a bit health
wheat elbow
Not all that much of a fan because there are already a lot of health related keepsakes.
Cerberus Collar gives 60 HP, Medusa gives pretty good regeneration by destroying Pots, Nyx gives you health for darkness
autumn tapir
I like Plume as it is right now
healing is already pretty abundant with Cthonic Vitality, fountains, hearts, and other keepsakes
wheat elbow
Nah, I won't be taking the plume anymore.
Just ain't worth it.
Around 30% Dodge Chance instead of 4 keepsakes?
Nah.
terse tiger
Especially because a single Hermes boon can give you a similar Dodge value.
rugged apex
hehehe 69% double strike boon. almost 70% chance of second bolt is really fun.
wheat elbow
I had that one on top if it.
Was at like 55 or so Dodge Chance in total.
Hermes has another boon that increases dodge chance after using a call, sadly did not see it
autumn tapir
https://streamable.com/aenbe here's a victory I'm pretty proud of
entered with 6 dd's
rugged apex
fun tip: the bow's special continues firing while you dash.
also god, the shield exalted's wave thing is really annoying.
autumn tapir
athena's legendary is so good
wheat elbow
Sadly, the prerequisite for it isn't.
ember lotus
It's highly conditional. Compare it to the other second tier boons
I think dire misfortune from Ares is a little underwhelming too
wheat elbow
What was misfortune again
ember lotus
And that Zeus boon that increases the bouncing potential of lightning
It increases the damage of subsequent curses from Ares
ember lotus
I think it starts at around eight damage
wheat elbow
On Attack Dooms, that adds up decently.
ember lotus
How many times can you attack before it pops?
wheat elbow
Depends on the weapon among other things.
ember lotus
Most of the times I'd rather leave the attack open for something that stacks better
wheat elbow
And there is a boon that makes the doom effewct stronger for a longer channel time
ember lotus
Like Dionysus
ember lotus
I do like impending doom
wheat elbow
70% extra doom damage for a 0.5 second longer time until it goes off
ember lotus
It let's me maintain privileged status longer or set it up so when the curse procs it hurts for like 260 dmg
I still think I prefer Ares curses on special attacks
median ridge
dire misfortune is good on the rail
ember lotus
Fair
wheat elbow
If you have the Ares/Athena duo boon, having the doom on attack can increase your DPS substancially.
Say you use the sword.
You can Attack/Dash constantly for huge damage
Which you couldn't do to that extend because the special has a cooldown.
Same for the rail.
And the spear is just bad.
ember lotus
But that set up is still strong with Ares on sword special and Athena on dash or attack
wheat elbow
Oh, absolutely.
ember lotus
With double Nova it stun locks too
If I did more hit and run, because I were playing with full frenzy or something, I'd probably change my preference
How big a hit can you build with dire misfortune and the rail? I've seldom put anything that isn't Zeus or Dionysus on rail attack
hard holly
Eh, on the rail Zeus and Dio are kinda better
And picking Ares on the attack is risky since you might not get Dire Misfortunate
In which case youre stuck with an awful attack boon
hard holly
On the rail it is awful
The debuff part is fine but
An Epic Ares is basically totally outclassed by a common Zeus boon
wheat elbow
I mean, yeah, but the Rail is a special snowflake in that regard.
hard holly
Eh
I mean personally Ares is bad on every single weapon for varying reasons
Except maybe Rails special
ember lotus
I was going to say
hard holly
But only because Poseidon has the highest value now and Ive yote too many enemies into me with it
So Id rather not pick it
ember lotus
I didn't think the rail and Poseidon got along well at all
But I've not tried it post patch
hard holly
Generally they dont
Its just that Poseidons special boon gives like 110% extra damage on rare
Which is the highest damage incraese
ember lotus
Would you put poms and boons into making that special better?
I feel like it can only get so good
wheat elbow
Whenever I use Poseidon on the rail
it ends in disaster
the knock back effects either knock enenies out of your special, or
worse
they knock enemies into you for free damage.
ember lotus
That's what I'm thinking
hard holly
Yeah thats why I dont use it anymore
I learned my lesson after the third lout in my face
wheat elbow
Poseidons Dash is a very fickle beast.
There is only one weapon on which I enjoy it.
That's the spear.
terse tiger
I very much enjoy Poseidon attack on the shotgun upgrade. Still problematic with the knockback, but it sends enemies flying!
native ether
Poseidon is sleeper powerful on the rail because you attack fast enough you can pummel enemies into walls repeatedly.
I'd say your biggest disadvantage there is Asphodel because there's no walls and enemies just casually hop out of lava.
wheat elbow
Asphodel is a very special case anyway.
One of the biggest blessings of this patch is that you spend less time in that fiery hellhole.
native ether
On the one hand, I'm really glad, as I find Asphodel the weakest biome of the game, thematically.
However, it honestly really sucks for high heat runs. I depended on the extra 4/5 chambers to roll some extra stats which I'm now not getting before Elysium.
wheat elbow
I mean
Elysium to me has been far less problematic recently as well.
The big roadblock in that area is the fight against the beefy horny duo
And that fight can now be won within the plume time limit, very quickly.
native ether
Oh yeah the plume change honestly really helps out.
Just needs to be stronger percentage wise imo
wheat elbow
It was just a nice way of measurement for me.
The bosses have much less damage
and Zagreus is more potent than ever
tzhanks to Wrath being super strong
native ether
Only thing timing wise I think needs changing on the plume is the Hydra room because that fight takes forever.
I've done several super speedrun sword and shield builds and I've not once cleared the hydra before that timer went off. At best I got it to its 6 head phase.
Maybe its doable with Frenzy cutting down the invul periods but honestly the hydra invul periods are incredibly short now.
wheat elbow
I mean, I am already commited to just not taking the plume again.
It simply ain't worth it.
I recorded a run troday where I got the plume on almost every room. I think I only missed out on Hades and the Hydra.
31.2%
native ether
Just about every other chamber though I think plume times very well now. Maybe throw in an exception for Thanatos rooms and survival rooms. (I think it flat out just doesnt time you in survival rooms)
wheat elbow
And that is not worth skipping up on 4 keepsakes
native ether
Yeah I've gotten 32.4% on it, it depends on how many encounters you get, you get hurt if you run into more fountains and rooms like patroclus
wheat elbow
Also, @covert grove remember that chaos egg thing with the money I was talking about earlier? The run is up now on youtube.
Gotta say, it felt good to be fiscally irresponsible and still get everything I desire.
native ether
Plume could use some percentage buffs imo, otherwise I like where its at. But I think the "shortening" hurts basically half the keepsakes in the game lol (inadvertently ofc)
wheat elbow
I mean, look at my last run
I started the game with the Chaos Egg
got an epic money increase for 90% more Obols
And that allowed me to rob every shop empty
native ether
lol just buyout the styx market
wheat elbow
including the very last one with ease.
And then I still had three more keepsakes to go with.
native ether
bleed the styx cost-co dry
wheat elbow
Coinpurse for free 200 coins, maybe a god keepsake for Elysium if I feel like it and/or the Myrmidon Bracer for reliable clearing.
I mean
Myrmidon Bracer reduces damage by 40%.
Plume gives you around 30% dodge chance on a stacked run.
At the end of the day, a stacke dplume can't even keep up with a regular myrmidon bracer when it comes to effective damage mitigation.
So yeah. The only good reason to pick up that plume at the moment is if you like to have an additional way of timing your performance
and/or if you enjoy self-sabotage.
native ether
or if you enjoy being a speed addict
wheat elbow
In Hades, damage = speed
native ether
Yeah but only if you're playing seriously :kappa:
wooden spade
Yeah lol I’m out here just trying to get through a no-heat run
wooden spade
Cool I guess
wheat elbow
Meh. I don't want to get attached.
A bad bow run may very well end up losing that in a hardbeat.
hollow minnow
This new update is AMAZINGGGGG OMG!!!!!!!!!
I got so close to beating Lord Hades on the first try but then I died!!!! 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦
Also I headed into the Champion Arena in Elysium with full health at 250 or something and FIVE DEATH DEFIANCES! FIVE! And guess what?!?! I LOST ALL OF THEM!!! It was awful!! It makes me so angry!! Have they gotten harder or is it just me???????????
turbid needle
Just killed hades for the first time. It only cost me 2 Death Defiances. https://imgur.com/a/QrpaHKW
hollow minnow
@wheat elbow one with every weapon?! That's so impressive!!!!!!!! you said the fight with the Bull and the guy--I am so sorry but I can never remember his name, much less how to spell it--in UNDER THIRTY SECONDS???? HOW?!?!!?!?! 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮
omg wow that's amazing RealRws!!!!! I haven't, yet....
wooden spade
Asterius is the bull, Theseus is the man!
wooden spade
Theseus was some king or other, I believe, but not sure where from
hollow minnow
thanks!
wooden spade
Maybe Athens?
hollow minnow
Yeah, I know the myth.
I DISPISEEEEE the Pink Butterfly Orb boss!! I actually don't like that they made the butterflies un-blockable now!!!
turbid needle
yeah
hollow minnow
It's IMPOSSIBLE to survive in that chamber!!!!
turbid needle
even with my explosive bow and rail
hollow minnow
😭
and the Gorgon with the flying rock guy is a pretty bad boss, too...espeically on high heat...Just so "awful"! (Good, in a way, too, fantastic design and everything, but like, just infuriating in a good/bad way to face them?)
native ether
You beat the Theseus encounter in under 30 seconds by running Hunting Blades.
Lol i wish it was more complicated, but a build with Hunting Blades will absolutely shred him.
Other good builds for him are Merciful End builds (Doom and Deflect), the new Lightning Rod does pretty well on Theseus specifically (he just stands there and eats the damage), and Low Tolerance Poison builds work great as well.
hollow minnow
"eats" damage....😂 😂
I'll have to try Hunting Blades if I can come across them!! 👍
hollow minnow
I'm using the Periced Butterfly for the first time!! Will the extra damage go away if I take it off and use another Keepsake??
pastel jolt
it will, unfortunately! gotta stick with the butterfly if you want its bonus