there's a suggestion buried somewhere for additive damage tickers
#h1-builds-and-combat
trim ingot
rugged apex
which of these looks stronger:
8 Damage (every 0.5)
16 Damage (every 1)
trim ingot
that shows you total damage applied from poison and blade rifts and stuff
wheat elbow
Additive Damage tickers as in adding together all the small damage numbers into a big number?
On screen or the description?
native ether
excuse
Artemis damage is definitely not inconsistent. Have you seen Hunting Blades, True Shot, Support Fire, and Burst Fire.
wheat elbow
Also, it could just say 50 damage over 4 seconds.
trim ingot
so it goes 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 instead of 2 2 2 2 2
native ether
Only gained from Artemis and having an Ares boon, but fair
wheat elbow
The build is strong but it isn't consistent.
(and yes, I know how strong it can be)
Thing is that all that strength is coming from Ares
The small extras Artemis provdes are neat but not necessary
(and yes, I consider hunting blades just a small extra at this point. The homing is neat but not necessary, especially if you can get high quality blade rifts on your dash instead)
native ether
I've never had inconsistency with crits. Crits are 20% chance bumped up to about a 50% chance with Marked.
Artemis is also the patron saint (saintess?) of any cast run. If I start to lean into casts I start spamming Artemis boons.
wheat elbow
Artemis is good for two things, crits and casts.
Not every run wants or needs to be a cast run and more often than not, the cast boons are not what you want to see in a run.
The crit boons make you rely on RNG, worse, it makes applying one of your debuffs on RNG
Paired with how big Artemis boon pool is in general, the chances of you getting what you want/need out of her are exceedingly small.
native ether
For a debuff run no I'd never pick her, she's too inconsistent there. But I'm not always prioritizing debuffs.
wheat elbow
Well I am because they are one of the best ways to increase overall damage
native ether
Playing debuff runs the best strat is just to spam Aphro and Dio since those are the 2 easiest to apply debuffs in the game. But Priveledged Status is also only an additive increase.
rugged apex
oof, yeah, poison does not refresh at 5 stacks
once it starts falling off it doesn't seem to refresh even on hit, briefly
wheat elbow
Every damage increase in the game right now is additive.
There may be exceptions, but I am not aware of any atm
atomic panther
*Except Crits
atomic panther
I don't think so, no
rugged apex
I think they have
atomic panther
Really?
rugged apex
but don't quote me on that
wheat elbow
I vividly remember someone else having said that when I haven't had a crit build in a while
and I also remember having had a crit build a couple days ago and being disappointed how a damage buff (I believe it was priv status) ended up only marginally increasing my crit damage.
rugged apex
unrelatedly the range on dashing wallop is really something
native ether
Crits are afaik 200% more damage of all the damage you would do in that hit.
Not 200% of base damage, but that includes any bonuses you're already getting.
rugged apex
it's as big as sword nova, and instant.
wild.
also yeah after some minotaur-assisted testing, poison does not refresh on hit
though if you're constantly hitting this doesn't actually matter because it'll still be at five stacks
wheat elbow
Just looked back on the run I was talking about earlier
It really had it all. Dashing Wallop Shield with Dionysus Attack, Aphrodite Dash, Ares Special and both of their casts.
Picked up a lot of defensive boons on the way. Fight was over within 1 Minute 15 Seconds while I just legitimately face tanked them. They weren't able to get past the first HP Bar.
A gold experience
rugged apex
yeah, here's what happens with poison stacks that I don't like:
you apply 5 stacks > one or two of these stacks decay > you hit them multiple times with like, three old stacks on > they're at 5 stacks... and then like, a second later the remaining three old stacks decay off, regardless of how many times they were hit
wheat elbow
Real talk, you should not overthink poison too too much.
rugged apex
I mean yeah this is solved by just continuing to attack
wheat elbow
Say you play the shield, what you are doing is either punch people or bullrush through them repeadedly.
rugged apex
but it's not ideal
wheat elbow
What does having a poison attack change about that? Nothing
It is more ideal to be at 4-5 stacks than overspamming 5 stacks
rugged apex
continue to slam your shield into faces, just with inexplicibly high damage
wheat elbow
If you remain at a constant 4-5, that means that you are using your attack efficiently
but that hardly if ever matter all that much inthe grand scheme of things.
rugged apex
I mean, no - it's ideal to be at max stacks, and if you're constantly attacking you won't drop below 5... but it matters when you have to disengage for any reason
wheat elbow
Depends on how you define "ideal"
rugged apex
maximum damage per second.
wheat elbow
In my my, ideal means "getting the most amount of damage out of each attack" as in "not wasting a potencial application of a fully run through poison effect"
You also have to consider what other things you can do.
Say you use the spear, you will end up using your special regularly too
rugged apex
I'm aware of how hades works, yes
wheat elbow
that is time you don't spend attacking and thus having some poison effects run out
Does that impact your DPS negatively? Overall no, it probably won't (assuming your special has something worthwhile (which it usually has))
Oh yeah, I had a double Nova Dionysus special run once. That was actually hilarious
rugged apex
unrelated note: explosive return with swift flourish is real good since hermes's speed boons buff projectile speed as well
aphrodite offers both duo boons at me at once
why do you never do this when I want you to?
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, stuff like that does happen.
Imagine a god offering you three duo boons and/or legendaries
deft niche
Is there any point to giving someone who's trinket I already have a second or third gift?
trim ingot
friendship
deft niche
Does that do anything gameplay wise? Lol
stable oyster
Makes you feel good so you play better
deft niche
Fair
finite grail
Meg and Achilles getting absolutely crazy on the orange juice
green birch
vacation juice baby
finite grail
Meg but in animal crossing style... blessed
green birch
Check #h1-story-discussion
fickle mantle
Is the Zeus legendary supposed to make your attacks not stagger mobs?
hollow minnow
I had the most awesome run EVERRRR!! Even considering I had equipped Artemis' Boon, I encountered her a crazy amount of times!! Sometimes when you have a certain Boon, you don't run into them for ages, you know?! But it was amazing!!! I had Exit Wounds (LOOOVE that one) at 340 damage, and my Cast was fully automatic thanks to Hermes, AND I had TEN of them!!!!!!!! Incredibly, I got all the way to the end and had Asterius down to half-health in mere seconds!!!!! Buuuuut 😢 I didn't go in with enough health and died....darn it!!! It was SO COOL! I brought down the Butterfly Orb boss like it was nothing!!! It was the most amazing run...!!!
@deft niche Almost every god, shade like Achilles, ect. has hearts next to their names in the Codex, so you can give them many gifts of Ambrosia!! A lot! 😃 🎁 😀 👍
And it feels wonderful ❤
Does anyone else loooooove Achilles??! He's the best!!!! Every time I see him I go, "Awww, he's so encouraging!!!" I love his and Zag's relationship 😄 😄
lost rose
i love achilles so much
turbid needle
congrats janeeeen 
deft niche
I got to asphodel for the first time earlier this evening!
kind cloud
I don't understand how to use/harness Exit Wounds.
I haven't figured out how to dislodge the cast marker. Any tips?
turbid needle
Bloodstones normally time out after 15 seconds.
trim ingot
you just wait for it to dislodge
turbid needle
They will pop out of an enemy if left long enough or will drop when you kill them.
Quick Reload shortens that time.
deft niche
Also congratulations @hollow minnow
kind cloud
Oh. So it's passive damage?
turbid needle
Kinda?
trim ingot
isn't rail already auto reloading? i don't press the reload button ever
kind cloud
So is there no way to knock the cast marker (bloodstone?) out of an enemy sooner than the timer?
(I know Artemis has an ability which reduces the timer.)
turbid needle
Nope, just killing them or Quick Reload.
trim ingot
maybe i'm just not understanding the feedback, what other kind of auto reload is needed
deft niche
Do Hermes boons drop I've only ever seen them in the boat man's store and do they drop in the first biome?
lost rose
They do, yeah
The game will really try to get you at least one per run
most often you'll see them in charon's store in tartarus, but i think you can get them there as room rewards too
deft niche
Cool I'm just trying to get a trinket run done and Hermes's eluding me LOL
pseudo ocean
People are asking for auto-reload when you're holding down the attack button and you run out of bullets. As it stands, when you run out and continue to hold down the button, it will keep clicking (empty chamber) and do nothing until you let go of the button. I think that aspect is what's frustrating the players.
trim ingot
i see
errant narwhal
curl was halfway there but he lost some progress
and I think he plays hades a bit less now
the text is on the wiki, though
lost rose
na
lost rose
it fills in a heart
trim ingot
oh 😔
okay but going by the in game explanation of how the codex work
does this signify that zag really really really doesn't want to know about his dad
or does it mean achilles really locked up that hades lore good
like, metaphysically
lost rose
i feel like that might be closer
tho that would mean he has hades lore locked up tighter than patroclus lore which seems
not quite right
lost rose
ok fair
trim ingot
the secret lore is in the datamines
he's throwing shade at hades in his codex and he does NOT make it easy to see
when you unlock the last entry achilles gets fired for writing mean emails about hades
that's how you get him back to elysium actually
lost rose
kgjhdfkgd
trim ingot
i guessed your ending greg what now
trim ingot
huh if you keep the money from hypnos purse when you switch out i guess why should you lose the skelly dd
wheat elbow
I agree.
Skellys Tooth is one of these keepssakes that is just one solid change away from being good and useful
I am also close to having all keepsakes fully charged
pseudo ocean
Black Shawl: "Whenever you gain Darkness, restore Health for 20/30/40% of the amount."
Do you guys find this keepsake to be lackluster? The amount of healing is so low, seems like it would only be worth it when attempting high heat runs.
stable oyster
Well it gives you in-run benefits for a normally out of run only item so it’s great for your buff economy
native ether
It's kinda like a slightly less powerful version of Premium Vintage
trim ingot
it's kinda just a worse feather duster
native ether
It's not I don't think bad, it's just not good comparing it to the top contenders
trim ingot
it used to be "pass through enemies" but that got changed because it really didn't do much
native ether
Like if we look at the "top" keepsakes, it needs to bring something to the table to make it compete and imo it doesn't quite do that.
stable oyster
Well I mean it dosent slow you down like duster
native ether
I mean I find myself breaking pots just by being in the room.
And tbf that's only important if you're speedrunning (and if you're speedrunning why aren't you using Plume)
trim ingot
i do think feather duster should change the colour of pots with health so you don't have to go breaking every one
stable oyster
My go to survivability upgrade for a college so idk
Spiked color
Dang it autocorrect pls
native ether
That would be nice on Feather Duster assuming the pots are pre generated and it's not "if you break a pot get heal"
trim ingot
i mean if it is they could just change it to be pregenerated
native ether
That's true too
trim ingot
distant memory probably could stand to be buffed a bit to compete with the other offensive keepsakes
native ether
What's its amount past 10%?
trim ingot
20 and 30%
native ether
Don't use it enough to upgrade it. 10% is minimal on the rail.
trim ingot
i get why it's lower than the earring and butterfly since it has less risk and doesn't require gitting gud
but nobody uses it at any skill level
native ether
Altho in general with number increases I think I would like to see rail base damage increased a bit. Not sure how much wouldn't be game breaking, but it would help make the rail feel a bit more powerful.
(rail primary. Special is imo fine, dare I say one of the best specials if not the best in the game if you can use it well)
trim ingot
i think rail primary it has the advantage of being really easily supplemented by the special
with most other weapons if you're going all out on primary you're just spamming attack, you don't want to be using the special at all
but the rail special is safe to fire along with the primary and does decent damage even without upgrades
native ether
Thats fair. Would be nice if it was easier to keep enemies in the special with the primary (which you kind of can because the rail shot sort of resets their movement speed, but it's pretty janky)
And ofc the issue with the special is it's practically ineffective against any fast moving target, not to mention Theseus and Asterius.
finite grail
That’s the same reason I find mirage flight really good for shield
It’s free damage and also procs loose booms you might have
Versatility is king imo
turbid needle
Is there ever any reason to take Hunter Instinct? It feels like such a very minute boost (even on a build that has high crits per second).
wheat elbow
Was Hunter Instinct increased crit damage?
Or increased Armor Crit Damage
Also, I agree. Mirage Flight is among my favorite Hammer Upgrades simply because it allows me to weave attack and special together.
The fact that you can do that is what makes the sword and the rail good weapons.
Having more different abilities to use regularly opens up more opportunities to synergize your skills.
turbid needle
Increased crit damage is Clean Kill, extra armor damage is Hide Breaker. Hunter Instinct is increased Wrath gain on crit.
wheat elbow
Oh that one.
I mean, it is weaker than before if memory serves. They nerfed all wrath generating boons
On the other hand, for certain combinations, it could be quite potent.
If you get crit on a good blade rift run for example
hnnnnnng
Or maybe together with zeus because he usually gives you like 2-4 damage instances per attack.
and/or add duo boons to the mix.
Overall, I agree, it's a dud in almost every case.
Artemis has a huge amount of those in her pool which is part of what makes her so unreliable.
turbid needle
I'd argue that she can have an immense impact on a given run with only two boons: Pressure Points (universal crit chance) and Hunter Mark.
wheat elbow
No disagreement there.
Getting these two is amazing, but compare that to the big amount of highly situational stuff she has in store for you and it becomes a wash quite easily.
turbid needle
The only ones that I would say are situational are Quick Reload and Exit Wounds.
wheat elbow
All of her cast boons are situational because not every run is a cast run while just getting one of those won't automatically turn your run into a good cast run.
She has 4-5 in total if memory serves.
Her own cast which is just a slightly better baseline cast, more ammo, quick reload, exit wounds and whatever the one was called that fires an extra projectile
turbid needle
Fully Loaded is useful even on a castless build, same with Burst Shot.
Or if not castless, not an invested one like you'd run after picking up Blade Rifts.
wheat elbow
You need to have a cast from another god + at least 2-3 of her cast boons to make your casts be more than just a cute sub in between.
And I say that as someone who has played a few highly entertaining cast runs
It's the same with everything Zeus offers. You need to sink 2-5 boons into him, otherwise, nothing he offers has impact.
Ares is similiar. His two doom effects aside, everything related to blade rifts needs 2-4 boons to be worth your while.
turbid needle
No gods except Dionysus and maybe Aphrodite offer a single boon that can stand on its own, and they both have their own drawbacks.
And Athena.
Divine Dash is insanely strong.
wheat elbow
Ares, Dionysus and Ares offer god boons that can stand on their own by dealing good damage + providing a status. They all also have very strong individual boons.
turbid needle
I guess.
wheat elbow
Aside from that, all gods have at least one to two boons that are great standalones
native ether
If you have a fast attacking crit attack I can see Hunter Instinct being very effective
You could likely build around that and a Dio/Zeus wrath
Since I assume its a flat amount of meter per crit, and independent of the damage the crit actually deals
wheat elbow
Poseidon and his oceans bounty for example is excellent, but his wrath effect is also a very good wrath effect to take no matter how good or bad it synergizes with your build because it's a lot of free damage.
Artemis' Wrath effect as well.
turbid needle
I don't like Poseidon's Wrath boon. It's only for damage.
wheat elbow
It's free damage.
native ether
Artemis' Wrath is by far my favorite because it goes thru those dang shields
wheat elbow
Yeah, Artemis Wrath is neat too.
turbid needle
Epic Barbs will take out a full quarter of the Hydra's health.
native ether
I don't like Poseidon's Wrath boon because I find it hard to control and it always throws me around and i get beat up after using it.
wheat elbow
Athenas Wrath makes a neat standalone wrath too if you have a high damage run
turbid needle
And I did mean his Boiling Point, which is increased Wrath charge when you take damage.
native ether
Athena's and Ares' are good "i need a minute to chill, do you mind" effects
turbid needle
Ares' is also a huge DPS machine.
wheat elbow
Meh, Ares Wrath effect feels mediocre.
And Poseidon is a "chill minute" as well
Better damage than Ares and a reliable 5 seconds.
Athena, while good, actually throws me off with the inconsistent timer
turbid needle
There's a really loud bell signaling the end of Wrath.
wheat elbow
Yes, and it's inconsistent
turbid needle
Nnno it isn't.
Athena's Wrath has different lengths, but the bell happens every time.
pastel sentinel
I sort of agree with @wheat elbow here. Everytime I use a wrath which makes me impervious, be it Ares or Athena or Poseidon, I often think I'm still invulnerable when I'm not (anymore)
Ikr different lengths etc. but it feels off somehow
Regarding the acoustic clue of it ending*
native ether
Poseidon's is a "chill minute" except it drags me off in a direction I don't really want to be going at the speed of mach 10
So the issue with the bell is that you think its counting "3, 2, 1, end"
Its actually not. We've encountered this before. It counts "3, 2, 1" (bing bing bong, however it fits best) and ends exactly on the 1
So when you hear the 2nd bell, get out of danger
wheat elbow
Looking at the feedback channel, I am kinda amazed that people dislike the idea of more pact of punishment options.
People must looove their frenzy runs I suppose. 
native ether
I dislike the idea of a wrath affecting pact option because it feels too situational to be useful. I don't find Wrath that often and I don't build around it, so it's basically just free points.
And as neat as the idea is, I don't expect to see an innate wrath skill on Zagreus. Wrath feels like it's going to be reserved to the Olympians, at least for now.
stable oyster
an upgrade that makes certain boon options completely useless feels really bad
also consider that heat also reduces choices, so you could be forced into it
trim ingot
ooooor make wrath not show up until you at least make it to hydra
native ether
I've consistently downvoted pact suggestions simply because I haven't actually seen one that I'd actually enjoy using in the game. Suggested ones either feel too case specific or like they wouldn't be implemented or even fun to deal with.
I would like to see an additional option so I didn't have to put points in things like Frenzy or Stifling Darkness because I don't like using either, but I just haven't seen one I've actually liked in the feedback channel
pseudo ocean
I've found that people tend to respond more positively when the feedback is descriptive but refrains from trying to force a particular solution on the devs.
pastel jolt
it also avoids the situation of “i agree with your point, but not your proposed solution/change”
wheat elbow
@stable oyster But Tenebrous Veil exists, basically making 2/3 of all boons useless.
turbid needle
That's exactly what Ichoren is saying. You could have this theoretical Pact turning Wrath off together with Tenebrous Veil and get stuck with a functionless boon. Only way to make that work would be to turn off their appearance entirely, which I don't think is a great idea either.
wheat elbow
Being honest, Id rather get rid of tenebrous veil all together.
As much as I rant about Frenzy, Tenebrous Veil is the worst.
turbid needle
Hard agree.
native ether
Ironically, I prefer using Tenebrous Veil over Stifling Darkness and if I have the choice, I'll pick it over that every time
I find Tenebrous to be a unique challenge.
wheat elbow
Then you are a better man than me.
I get frustrated everytime I not only get stuck with a mediocre boon
but also because the game insists on still showing me the amazing stuff I am missing out on.
turbid needle
Tenebrous Veil takes the game out of the player's hands. Ban it, get it out of here.
native ether
tenebrous veil doesnt make certain types of boons useless. It limits your choices and makes it harder to get good builds by doing so. But it doesn't make any function of the gameplay "useless".
An effect that entirely disables wrath (without straight up removing the pool altogether) flat out just makes one part of the game useless. So by design, it makes finding a wrath boon, for lack of better words, feel like garbage, and that's why I would feel its poorly designed.
Tenebrous's advantage is that it doesn't functionally make any type of boon you can find "useless".
wheat elbow
I remember how I played SWTOR when the cash shop was introduced. Everywhere, the game became like "Look at these amazing features you can use if you do this!"
and Tenebrous Veil brings back that same feeling of frustration for me
"Enjoy your Ares Wrath Effect first room in a game. Who needs his special anyway, right?"
native ether
I think in general I would prefer to see more Pact effects so players who don't like Tenebrous don't feel forced to pick it up on high heat runs. (This would solve lots of issues players have with specific options)
Unfortunately, as I said earlier, I've seen no Pact suggestions that I've actually liked in the feedback channel.
wheat elbow
you meant pact effects, not wrath effects there I suppose
native ether
yes mbad
I think by far though, Frenzy is honestly the worst one. It makes the game legit unplayable in Elysium. Its not bad in Tartarus or Asphodel but it legit makes the game unplayable in Elysium. Everything just moves way faster than you and attacks faster at all times.
Seriously I dare you, use 50% increased move speed against Theseus.
Just try
As much as veil is frustrating, at least the game is still playable with it. I don't think I can give Frenzy that luxury, unfortunately
errant narwhal
don’t speedruns use frenzy?
I’m pretty sure they do since they make the enemies spawn faster
native ether
I don't see how you can use Frenzy at any percentage above 20% without literally getting so mad at the game you break your keyboard
Believe me, I was trying to for about 3 months, its why I struggled so much on getting a 60 heat run done
Elysium enemies just move so fast they quite literally mow you down and there's nothing you can really do to fight back. Especially Theseus and the Minotaur. The minotaur's charge attack is basically just a free hit on you unless you're already standing next to a pillar.
I think this issue will be even worse assuming enemies of the next biome are harder better faster stronger
I'd love to be proven wrong on this one tbh, so if there's people doing moderate/high heat runs with high frenzy, let me know how wrong I am
turbid needle
I agree with this assessment on Frenzy.
Even the Fury fights are incredibly difficult.
native ether
I like its concept, I'm just not sure how to make it work in areas with faster enemies considering its already hard to outrun them without them moving faster
turbid needle
...Make the whole game run faster?
Black and white Epic Greater Haste montage set to Yakkety Sax.
Kiting 50 elite Numbskulls around a time trial.
native ether
ok so ummm... so invigorating blast, ive never taken it in the past
but it doubles your damage on everything
not just your attacks
turbid needle
Yup.
native ether
literally everything
turbid needle
It can be nutty.
native ether
ok so now im gonna consider this actually in the future
i got it forced onto me via veil but lol ill take 225 damage on doom effects
signal viper
i see mention of a theoretical pact option deactivating wrath & how that's a bad idea (agreed), but what about a pact option that decreases wrath length? Maybe chunks of 10% or 20% and ending with it turned off?
i ask that here instead of feedback because i want discussion and not to just drop it in without developing the idea
trim ingot
pact option that just makes hades yell at you every room
trim ingot
BOY!!!
stable oyster
Speed runs use 50% frenzy to speed up the invulnerability shields between boss phases
Also why the hate for frenzy I think it’s super fun, it speeds up the game so much
wheat elbow
To me the increased speed is just frustrating. Tartarus is full of enemies that charge you and they become relentless under frenzy.
Asphodel is the exact opposite. All the enemies jump around the huge rooms like crazy, enjoy chasing after them.
And Elysium, well
Longspears.
stable oyster
If you keep it on for a while you get used to it
Might help that I almost exclusively use shield, it seems to be the only weapon with enough defensive options to keep up with frenzy
native ether
the increased speed is practically impossible to deal with on a boss like Theseus
or the minotaur
its fun in Asphodel and Tartarus but in Elysium, added with other modifiers, makes it very difficult to do anything
you just get hit
stable oyster
unless your weapon can block
stable oyster
I don't know how they would buff the other weapons to be able to compete with shield defensively
trim ingot
bull rush is pure cheese
stable oyster
potently by letting you cancel attacks sooner/in the middle of them with a dash
its not even bullrush
wheat elbow
The spear would need all across the board improvements to it's smoothness
native ether
since the shield has such a huge advantage defensively, it should pale in comparison to every other weapon offensively
stable oyster
its the fact that you can block basically frame 1 after attacking
wheat elbow
It is a melee weapon that forces you to stand still for everything you do
while being slow
stable oyster
yea spear is in a rough spot
wheat elbow
The worst aspect about the Spearis that neitrher of the attacks works well together with the special
stable oyster
I think other weapons need to be buffed rather then nerfing shield
native ether
other weapons should have far higher dps outputs than the shield to counterbalance the fact that the shield blocks most of the damage you take
wheat elbow
I mean, I disagree
stable oyster
I don't think dps upgrades would even help
rugged apex
I don't know what blocking is, dashing wallop is the only upgrade I need
wheat elbow
Yeah, Dashing Wallop is just amazing.
native ether
that or maybe once the shield blocks a couple hits it "breaks" and cancels a block
stable oyster
the reason shield is so good is because all other weapons require you to stand still for so long
native ether
excuse me, a rail upgrade that allows you to fire while moving would be the best thing ever
wheat elbow
Censorship is fun
rugged apex
do you stand still with the sword
native ether
help mah free speech is being censored :kappa:
rugged apex
why would you not constantly be dashing
wheat elbow
Yes,the special roots you
native ether
buff the rail. Let you move while firing :kappa:
trim ingot
bring back the float gun
native ether
I think the issue with the shield is that its the best (only) defensive weapon, and its also got a very effective and high damage attack, especially with upgrades
and the defense means that you standing still isnt nearly as an issue
trim ingot
i mean a good athena or poseidon boon can turn other weapons defensive
athena sword nova? don't even touch me
wheat elbow
Poseidon Damage + Rupture works on bosses.
Which against bosses is usually all you need.
stable oyster
defensively
wheat elbow
There are a lot of his boons that do nothing against bosses though, yes, and that is a problem.
That and Ocean Tresure.
stable oyster
I think having pos as a god that specializes against normal mobs is fine
he is like the counterpart to dio
native ether
i mean dio is just good against everything
wheat elbow
Dio is just amazing in general.
I am still convinced that Poseidon is getting two duo boons soon, one with Athena and Dionysus.
I am willing to take bets
That + Actually making the Zeus/Pos Duo Boon work out properly
rugged apex
poseidon's not even that good against normal mobs, tbh - knocking enemies out of range usually isn't what you want to be doing if you aren't oneshotting them
wheat elbow
and he is in a much better spot
trim ingot
see i just don't think there's a counterpart
what god is good against bosses but useless against regular enemies
wheat elbow
Most people would say Dionysus.
stable oyster
on high heat Poseidon is a god send
stable oyster
wall slam
trim ingot
yeet into the lava
stable oyster
basicly a +150% dmg increase
also that
can easily do 2000 dmg to bombflingers and fdancers
trim ingot
why are all the floating enemies in asphodel also ranged tho
stable oyster
just be careful where you hit them
knockback is only a detriment if you don't hit them to a wall/pillar
native ether
Yeah athena boons are great for defensive options
dont work well on all weapons though (rail in particular imo)
and while it does work well on the attack, you'd rather take something that offers actual damage to boost the rail's low attack damage
stable oyster
also it can only effectively block in one direction
native ether
yeah, the direction you're shooting in (which is unlike sword nova or bow multi shot)
but shield doesnt need it cause it gets it innately
hence why the shield has a big leg up already (and why I dont think its attack should be as comparable, or it should lack something else to compensate)
stable oyster
but the thing is if we nerf shield all the other weapons feel as bad as they always have at high heat
native ether
i recommend buffing all the other weapons instead
stable oyster
yea that's what I'm saying
shorten the attack animations or let people dash mid animation and still deal dmg
then probably nerf dmg a bit so that the base game is still the same difficulty
native ether
i think in the case of the rail id prefer to see increased damage or the ability to fire while walking. (As shooting faster is honestly a bit of a debuff cause reloads)
sword and bow though id agree on increased attack speeds
spear, not sure on... probably just an increased attack speed on the primary?
Though I think in all honesty, the block the shield offers is so powerful that its always gonna make the shield a stronger choice compared to other weapons (cause its unlimited blocking of damage in a near 180 degree arc in front of you, with no duration and almost no windup time)
stable oyster
block angle is more like 90
native ether
that makes a bit more sense, wasnt sure the exact number (i dont use the shield often because I dont like how it plays, and it feels cheap to use)
stable oyster
idk I'm fine with shield being the best on paper because it basically has the highest skill cap
native ether
how so?
stable oyster
block flicking, the dash attack combo, hitting enemies in shch a way with a certain amount of charge to land you just behind them after the rush, etc
native ether
I feel like all the weapons are pretty hard to master tbh, all of them have different quirks, I don't feel one being more difficult than the other to figure out how to use at an expert level.
stable oyster
I mean, spear is basically just charge spin for spawns, dodge attacks, wait for an opening, hit them as many times as you can, repeat
wheat elbow
Spear = Never press Q
stable oyster
spear q is great tho bc you can get an attack(the return) while moveing
try using it as the last hit of your combo
native ether
Spear Q is amazing because its a free backstab proc.
its not exactly something you want to be doing all the time
certainly not the worst
vale sphinx
Allows shield bypass
wheat elbow
You say "proc" like achieving a backstab is aczually all that meaningful.
native ether
50% bonus damage
wheat elbow
On 25 damage, yes
vale sphinx
I’d say not having to get close to shieldbearers is meaningful
stable oyster
with darkness it makes your last hit deal 45 instead of 15
wheat elbow
There is one great build you can go with
Athena Special + Her Debuff + Vicious Skewer
native ether
Was about to also say Vicious Skewer exists and that makes the damage much better
wheat elbow
Gives you a high crit chance on the return that will also deal insane damage because of Athenas Debuff buffing the backstab
native ether
Also yeah not having to be close to shieldbearers and enemies with a melee weapon is honestly a huge plus
wheat elbow
But that would still mean standing still to use the slow low range projectile
while a full room of fast moving meanlooking motherlovers is out there to kill you.
It just does not work out.
native ether
The spear feels like the "I do everything, but master of none" weapon
Its a melee weapon with a ranged special, and a high burst slow spin combo.
stable oyster
you can move while its going out and coming back
native ether
But it does none of those things "super well"
rugged apex
the spear's throw animation is really slow. it's literally worse than the shield's.
native ether
yeah it is pretty slow
still want to see the rail let me fire while walking that would be so much fun
would make using the rail much easier though, way easier tbh
wheat elbow
The rail would be in a better place with more ammo and slightly more range immo.
Just a few frames. And maybe a bit better tracking on the shooting.
Some small adjustments on some hammer upgrades and it's good.
But still bad for heated runs because the rail will always be too slow for heated runs while not being able to flinch enemies is a problem too.
native ether
I'd prefer increased base damage over more ammo tbh. There's already 2 upgrades that increase its ammo capacity in some way. On the rail id love to see an automatic reload.
native ether
The no stun on enemies is annoying yeah but rolling Explosive Shot turns the rail into a meh tier to a god tier weapon
wheat elbow
Aside from that, I go on record and say that the rail is be best designed weapon in the game by far.
native ether
I kinda do wish the "dash shot" of the rail actually stunned an enemy. That would help a lot imo.
wheat elbow
It forces you to use all your manners of attacking and weave them together.
Special because it's your main course of damage
Attacks as an inbetween special cooldowns
Dash as an inbetween special coolodwns + avoidance/mobility
And casts because they can flinch enemies, helping you secure your special
No other weapon achieves this perfect flow of using everything you have in your kit
native ether
You also forget using the movement reset of the primary to keep enemies trapped inside the special zone
wheat elbow
Not sure what movement reset you mean.
native ether
Hitting an enemy with the primary effectively slows them down under sustained fire
You can use that to keep a faster enemy trapped in the area
wheat elbow
Ah.
native ether
Doesnt work on enemies that jump around like the Inferno Bombers but works on pretty much every other enemy (except shield bois cause ew nothing works on shield bois)
wheat elbow
Any, the hammer upgrade on the rail are also top notch. All of them are a noticable buff while also being transformative and change your playstyle substancially
native ether
Yeah. I've always said the Rail is a weapon that's entirely dependent on the hammer upgrades. It starts out a little underpowered compared to other weapons but with most of the hammers it becomes god tier.
I've recently just found out how glorious Invigorating Blast is because it doubles all of your damage, not just your attack and special damage (like I thought it did)
wheat elbow
Yeah, it's great.
trim ingot
oh my god invigorating blast triple bomb
wheat elbow
The damage buff don't stack I think
native ether
Though I do wish the duration was slightly longer, its very hard to make it effective in the short time spam, especially due to the special's long cast time
native ether
Also it doesnt proc if you dash when the blast lands. I wish it did.
gilded fjord
Hi guys. Pear talked so much about this game, that I became quickly a fan. And I can see there's already plenty great discussions here for me to read.
native ether
Oh heyo! Nice to see my addiction attracts others here :p
gilded fjord
😃
native ether
Also ima do it just for you Daddy DeGrand. Im gonna beat the 120 Heat with the Rail just to prove it works :kappa:
wheat elbow
I can see a 120 heat run with the rail working out if you are A: a better player than me and B: don't use frenzy.
Being a better player than me is easy and given how you like tenebrous veil so much, dodging frenzy should be a simple task for you.
So yeah, go for it, all power to you.
native ether
im using the same stats that were posted above earlier (600% damage basically)
the idea is just "dont get hit lol"
its worked out fairly well so far. I've gotten to Theseus pretty consistently and I've got him killed a couple times (to die to the minotaur cause I was on 1 hit)
The issue with as much as I like the unique challenge Veil offers, its not viable with the Rail
Rail is a weapon where you really just cant willy nilly get random effects, you have to make a build that works together to do it right
placid silo
Dear gods, finally finished a 60 heat run
lost rose
congrats!!!
placid silo
I was one hit away from dying to Asterius
I really wasn't lucky on boons either XD
atomic panther
Congrats!
placid silo
Thanks
wheat elbow
As I say regualry, the only HP that counts is the one HP that keeps you from dying.
stable oyster
any extra is just wasted and thats rude
wheat elbow
Quick reminder for you guys to never ever take Charmed
Recorded a run, will be up later today.
No torment invested, a regular witch that deals 5 shots per bullet regularly hit me for 50 damage
A spear hero did 68 damage to me while holding Myrmidon Bracer and looking at me from the front.
pseudo ocean
Charmed has major problems right now. I put in a ton of feedback regarding charm towards the beginning of the current patch.
I got hit by a small hydra head for 100+ and almost killed me
wheat elbow
Check the reddit post I just showed here.
A spear hero was hitting me for 68 and that hit was reduced by 40% already!
Maybe more, I believe I got some more damage reductions along the way
pseudo ocean
I'm hoping this will be fixed sooner than later, but seems like the devs are tied up working on the 4th biome. Hopefully they will revisit Charm before v1.0.
finite grail
It does say in the effect that charmed enemies receive a significant buff while charmed so it might be a bug?
wheat elbow
Checked on the wiki, yes, it does say with greater strength and speed.
Sure made me feel the strength part.
The "speed" is pretty relative though.
Also, sometimes, they just won't attack other charmed enemies for reasons.
native ether
Nice job! Poggers on the 60 heat run
Also yeah I fully expect most QoL changes and balance changes will come in an update after the 4th biome, similar how to Elysium worked.
turbid needle
See, this is why I don't mess with Charm (or anything that doesn't affect bosses).
pseudo ocean
That would include most of what Poseidon has to offer. Aphrodite is still good against bosses because of Weak.
rugged apex
fun fact: sometimes enemies just get randomly charmed???
turbid needle
Aphro is good against bosses because of weakness, but currently Poseidon offers the biggest damage-ups in the game.
I mean, Aphrodite also currently offers second-largest damage-ups so she completely outclasses Poseidon, but it's there.
Agreed that outside of Rupture and the damage increase Poseidon is just kinda dooky.
trim ingot
Sometimes you just destroy an enemy so throughly the shades are in awe and fall in love with you
median ridge
i've noticed brief enemy charms on runs without any aphrodite at all. so weird
pseudo ocean
Yeah random enemy charms when I have Aphrodite but no charm boons. A bug most likely. Pretty sure this has been happening for a few months at least.
jade shoal
Hey guys
I have a question
In my 14th or so attempt, after I died I had a dialogue with ||Megaera and she said that I was only able to win because I'm using Nyx's mirror. Has anyone attempted a run just to defeat her without using the mirror?||
lost rose
afaik there isn't currently any unique dialogue for beating her without the mirror
jade shoal
Can someone tell me how to up the number of hearts
gifts seem to work but sometimes they just go up without gifting anything
lost rose
Don't think they should be going up without gifting anything...
grand patrol
lost rose
Locked hearts are also inaccessible right now bc there's no content
empty hearts can be filled by giving gifts, but locked hearts are locked; you can't give gifts past a certain point
jade shoal
How do I use a discord link then?
lost rose
you can send them in a direct message to someone, or post them on a private server, then right click and select "copy link"
jade shoal
So I gifted Nyx 3 Ambrosias?
lost rose
yeah
jade shoal
Why does only the first one have a little present next to it
lost rose
for the first gift, you receive a keepsake in return for your gift
lost rose
np!
wheat elbow
Man, I have been having a slump lately
Feels like I just can't get a good game in recently
turbid needle
:/
gilded fjord
Maybe you need a couple days breack daddy.
trim ingot
i'm procrastinating on getting that spear clear
stable oyster
take a break and play transistor or something else
native ether
THEY SAID IT COULD NOT BE DONE
IT HAS BEEN DONE
120 HEAT ON THE RAIL
oh my god it was my 100th run on the dot
wheat elbow
Congratulations, man
native ether
I also entirely retract my earlier statement that poison doesnt do enough in Elysium
I still think it'll drop off in the 4th biome, but dear gods I would not have been able to win without that poison attack
wheat elbow
Yeah, Poison is just amazing.
What did your pact look like
Also, Myrmidon Bracer for High Torment Runs is the real gold experience.
Pairing that up with Aphrodites Weak Effects early and you have a good chance at making those runs work.
native ether
Pact was the same as the one shown earlier. +500% Damage, 2 Death Insurance, Double Price, 50% Increased enemy spawns, and full Stifling Darkness
I originally was trying to utilize Thanatos's Butterfly but in the end it was just too important to secure that Poison effect, so I swapped to going Dio's Cup, Aphro's Rose (just to huge the fat secure the duo boon and extended Weak duration) and Myrmidon Bracer (which I don't normally use cause I typically run away from things that hit me, not towards, but 20% reduction is too good to pass up when everything hits for 120 damage)
The winning rail strat is definitely Poison + Weak, because easily spammable debuffs and 50% bonus damage on the special/shot
I think a bunch of hammers work, but you need Explosive Fire to survive Elysium so its not just getting hit constantly for 50-70 damage, especially from Longspears.
wheat elbow
I think another big point here is that going with 500% damage allows you to just skip out on Frenzy.
native ether
Honestly, don't use Frenzy for a high heat run
Its never worth it
You just get beat up in Elysium
You're literally just a stationary punching bag.
Even with the shield, you just get hit from all sides too much for it to be worth it
wheat elbow
I mean, Frenzy is the worst, yes
but if you play with it constantly, you actually kinda get used to it?
Playing with Frenzy right now feels close to how the game felt for me when I started playing the game
native ether
getting used to it doesnt really make it survivable
i mean just because you're used to the Minotaur walking at the speed of light doesnt mean you can dodge him
wheat elbow
I mean, yes and no. I think that Torment is still the bigger detriment.
ooooooooh
I just had a ridiculous video idea
but no, I can't do that
native ether
Is it "Hades, S P E E D"
native ether
I wanna do a "max speed" video with some meme music just cause it would be hilarious
wheat elbow
I believe that the highest instance of damage so far is something either Asterius or Thesseus does
Thesseus spear deals 20 damage, I believe Asterius has something comparable.
native ether
The charge I think
wheat elbow
Now imagine getting hit by that on a high torment run
native ether
I mean I did
wheat elbow
WHILE they are charmed and deal 10X the damage
native ether
lmao
wheat elbow
A video all about being hit by the highest amount of damage the game can deal to you atm
wheat elbow
Yo
This is me dying to a spear hero in Elysium
No Torment
On that same run, I took a hit from a charmed witch.
Not for 5 but for 50 damage.
Mind you that on that picture above, I am wearing the Myrmidon Bracer and had one or two more defensive boons
otherwise that hit would have exceeded a hundred.
I got that playthrough on my channel, you should check it out.
I also left feedback aboutit on this discord.
native ether
those witches in Elysium have some weird interactions
their big balls do a pretty small amount of damage but its like if you somehow dash into the center of one, it hits you, and then every ball it would spawn hits you, doing like 70 damage
or if you manage to walk into it right as it explodes, similar feeling
wheat elbow
I was hit by a single instance dealing 50 damage.
And it was not a witch in elysium
It was a witch in Asphodel
Wait, let me PM the video
trim ingot
damn if only that exalted had dealt one more damage
spice turret
Hey, so am I the only one whose primary strategy in timed rooms is just 'run around the perimeter until time runs out'? If I fight in those rooms, it's usually just out of boredom.
trim ingot
nah that's the easiest way to do them
you can get extra money if you kill them though
native ether
the more you kill, the more money you get
I also recommend killing enemies if its a crowded or small room, you'll run out of space pretty fast
wheat elbow
There is also the option of sitting in a corner and holding up your shield.
covert grove
Beat 120 heat for the first time with a weird pact set up https://imgur.com/LGXntgl
covert grove
Yep +77%, got it in the first chamber
covert grove
Best strategy for lower time: avoid enemy encounters like how you avoid that Trap damage boon from Athena
turbid needle
I will actually take that boon in Asphodel if there's nothing better so I don't get ganked by lava.
wheat elbow
Athenas Boons are pretty bad overall, but you should never have a situation where the trap damage reduction is the best option you have
And that is coming from me who loves to step into those things
turbid needle
I'm just saying, I once ate a lot of damage rerolling a room so when I saw that it blocked damage taken from lava for the first few seconds entirely I don't just cross it out of my mind like it's got Tenebrous Veil anymore.
Epic Last Stand is pretty big, especially if you've been stacking HP up.
errant narwhal
Athena boons are all great no offense
Like, I guess if you’re a godlike player who makes no mistakes whatsoever they’re meh but less trap damage, buffed DD’s and invulnerability wrath? Hell yes
turbid needle
Even for godlike players, Athena has extremely powerful Duo boons with Ares and Artemis, on top of Deflect being a pretty cheesy mechanic overall. I thought it was agreed that Athena was S-tier.
Like, you can't tell me the invulnerability built into Deflect didn't contribute to making the run that short.
wheat elbow
There are too many problems and inconsistencies about Athena.
turbid needle
You're undeniably good at this game, but you have the weirdest opinions.
wheat elbow
Her damage is pretty weak overall, sword special just synergizes nicely enough to make it seem less problematic.
covert grove
Oh no it definitely cheesed most of the run. I believe that Athena is top tier for sure, even after the major damage nerfs she got in High Speed.
The deflect trivializes many aspects of enemies
wheat elbow
That's true. On the other hand, I have just seen a little too many "Less Trap Damage", "Less Damage" and "Holy Shield" boons from her
Then there is the fact that her legendary requirement is the worst
turbid needle
Bronze Skin is very good.
And Holy Shield turns a lot of very scary enemies into not that.
wheat elbow
Bronze Skin is amazing, but in almost every case, you want damage and utility to advance your gamestate
turbid needle
Theseus' and Greatshields' spin attacks are suddenly nothing.
covert grove
She has some duds, such as the extra deflect damage on top of what Daddy listed. It's too bad that that one is the prerequisite for the legendary
wheat elbow
The worst thing about that
is that the extra deflect damage is the ONLY boon that serves as a prerequisite for her legendary
I don't know, runs where I tried to rely on Athena usually ended up being failures for me because I would only see a selection of her worst,
turbid needle
Two or three bad boons don't turn "possible best Olympian" into "pretty bad overall".
Don't blame the RNG.
wheat elbow
I mean, "possible best olympian" is your opinion, not mine.
In my book, that title goes to Aphrodite.
covert grove
You can see how easy it was to avoid taking hits in the final fight from that run here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPLPUWsZZY
turbid needle
Again, pretty sure common consensus is Athena being S-tier.
wheat elbow
@covert grove I mean, that was as close to a perfect Athena Special Run as it could have been.
I don't play the sword as often as others and Athenas Special is the best on the Sword by far.
On the Shield? Not so much. The Bow? Not by a long shot. The Shield? Maybe with Mirage Flight, but even then it's more of a cute novelty.
The Rail? The damage is neat, but it's far away from being as impactful and useful than with the sword.
Athena being amazing with the sword is not enough to make her S Tier in general in my book.
turbid needle
Divine Strike is very good.
wheat elbow
Which one was Divine Strike again? The Athena Attack?
turbid needle
Yes.
wheat elbow
In that case, have all of my "meh"
Damage wise, it's fairly weak and next to no attack in the game remotely comes close to making an Athena Attack stand out the way Athena Special on the sword does.
Dashing Wallop Shield with it being the closest I can agree with you on here.
green birch
I think at this point it comes down to play style preference haha; if someone beat 120 heat then I’ll take them at their word if they had that boon
wheat elbow
Haelian is the better player from the two of us by far, but again, he had the perfect build there.
For every playthrough Athena will give you that one perfect build, there will be 5 others where she will just make you struggle with mediocre damage and boons that will just make the time until you end a bit longer.
covert grove
I'm definitely not the best player, I really struggle on high heat runs which is why I enjoy speedrunning more. I think Athena is a nice safe pick but not the best in terms of damage output (unless you get Deadly Reversal).
wheat elbow
I think the best pick in general is Aphrodite still.
She gives you solid extra damage overall while also adding a consistent boost to your tankiness
Quick debuff for prefered status and a lot of utility for both damage and protection.
If they fix charmed so that it won't KILL YOU OUTRIGHT! she will be the best without a doubt.
covert grove
I've worked with Aphrodite and something like Dionysus on dash to keep Privileged Status up, it's definitely a solid build and very consistent. Artemis still has top damage output imo with only a couple of the right boons from her
wheat elbow
It's awkward to get because the pre-requisite for Aphrodites Legendary are not the ones most would just pick up automatically.
It's the one that makes weakened enemies take more damage and the one that extends the weakening duration
One of those
Artemis is too inconsistent in my book.
turbid needle
I go for those literally every time.
Dude, you have to think on paper as well as in practice.
wheat elbow
I don't enjoy to rely on RNG and her boon options vary too much.
I do think in practise
"Marked would be ama.....oh, a selection of cast boons I can't do jack with"
Happens to me all the time
or the other way around.
turbid needle
You're blaming RNG again.
I could get nothing but Weak on enemy kill and enemy death and Special and not do crap with Aphrodite, but I still understand that she's very good.
wheat elbow
Artemis does more things on her own than she can handle.
turbid needle
That's categorically untrue.
wheat elbow
You can't reliable take a build focused around her into a straight direction.
turbid needle
World Splitter and Deadly Strike is a build unto itself.
wheat elbow
Yes, but
and here me out on this:
You can get critting deadly strikes without Artemis.
*critting World Splitters
turbid needle
Relying on two Hammers.
turbid needle
Taking Adamant Arrowhead on the outset gets me crit World Splitters in Tartarus.
wheat elbow
You want to get something good out of her crits, let's go with that, okay?
Start the run, maybe even with her keepsake
Now you actually need to get a crit attack or a crit special
wheat elbow
Those are TWO options out of the like......8 to 10 she has from the very beginning.
turbid needle
You have to rely on RNG to get ANY stinking boon.
wheat elbow
Maybe we can argue about pressure points being an option too
aside from that, there are three cast boons she can give you right from the start
4 if you count the actual cast
(or is it five? I believe it may be five if burst shot pops up immediatly)
The dash attack which is only okay on 3 out of 5 weapons and disappointing on the rest
Her wrath which is great but not what you want to build your run around
turbid needle
Hunter Dash is straight-up one of THE best boons on both shield and bow.
wheat elbow
You lost me at the spear.
Ah, okay.
Yes, but it stinks on the spear and the rail (unless there are very specific exceptions)
turbid needle
You should ONLY be dash attacking with the bow.
wheat elbow
And, anecdotal evidence
turbid needle
Spread Fire makes it worthwhile.
Actually, pure DPS upgrade.
Same damage, faster charge time.
wheat elbow
She will always offer me epic dash attacks on all my spear and rail runs
wheat elbow
Yes, but you are doing the same thing you did with Athena.
You say that one boon is amazing with one weapon
and say that this is enough reason to call her S tier
not so.
turbid needle
One boon out of like two dozen.
wheat elbow
That's the problem
One boon out of like a dozen, all of which she offers you right from the start.
turbid needle
Artemis and Athena have other boons that are also useful on other weapons.
wheat elbow
But let's keep on with the example:
turbid needle
Actually, I'm done.
wheat elbow
Say you got the crit modifier from her you desired.
Even with the arrow head, you have no guarantee to ever see her again. I had enough runs where I picked a god keepsake and was happy to see him even once on a floor.
It's even more troublesome if you have no rerolls at your hand.
Then comes the fact that taking one of Artemis' crit boons opens up 3 or 4 new options that further inflate her boonpool, making the chance for you to get what you need even less likely
I just checked, Aphrodite has 13 boons in total, of which 2 are duo boons
Artemis has 18 of which 3 are duo boons
native ether
I think you're undervaluing Artemis a lot there tbh.
wheat elbow
I do value a good Artemis run a lot.
I also recognize that for every good Artemis run it takes a lot of bad ones.
native ether
It's not really "relying on rng" because not only do you get a nice damage boost, you get a 20% crit chance.
She has lots of boons yeah but funnily enough I've never had this kind of issue. I've always gotten something I wanted from her, may not have been exactly what I wanted, but still useful
wheat elbow
Then you are a far more lucky man than I am.
native ether
Artemis also likes to show up a lot if you invest in her early. I agree she's not a 120 heat strategy simply because you need to get enough boons from her to build effectively around her, but she's still very good.
wheat elbow
That's relying on RNG again. And again, that did not happen for me often enough to matter.
Aphrodite is amazing if you meet her once.
One boon from her is game defining at almost every point of the game.
Artemis isn't.
native ether
Eh. The build I did last night wouldn't have worked with just one Aphrodite boon. I needed 3.
wheat elbow
Would it have worked if those 3 boons would have been Artemis?
native ether
Needed the weak effect, a duration extender so I wouldn't constantly be putting myself in danger, and Low Tolerance.
Yeah I could see a number of Artemis builds potentially working had I not gotten Tipsy Shot at the start.
wheat elbow
I mean, I had good Dionysus Artemis Builds in the past.
Artemis cast boons work surprisingly nice with Tipsy Shot
native ether
Exit Wounds doesn't, and the faster drop time just makes your fields last less (since I was using them to hold enemies in place less than for the damage)
native ether
Pretty sure it does. I'd need to actually test it.
wheat elbow
That aside, more ammo helps and burst shot actually makes you throw out more bombs as well
native ether
I'm fairly sure tho if you get a build with casts that don't stick in enemies, Artemis doesn't offer those 2.
wheat elbow
Yeah, since last patch, she doesn't
native ether
I could have seen True Shot, Exit Wounds, and either bonus cast ammo/faster drop time being a solid build.
Burst Shot also works with pretty much everything, but thats a Tier 2 boon.
Pressure Points is Tier 1, meaning late into a match if you don't invest much in Artemis 9/10 she is going to offer it, and dear lord that one is amazing.
wheat elbow
Pressure Points into Marked is amazing and I love it
native ether
And ofc Hunting Blades is still one of the best combos in the game if you can grab it.
wheat elbow
I have suffered multiple runs where she denied me getting that combination out of spite.
native ether
Marked is a harder one to get tbf. I typically get it on my 2nd or 3rd Artemis room.
wheat elbow
If you get that second or third room.
Again, I am very scornful when it comes to RNG because RNJesus left me burned a little too often.
Not only in Hades, in general.
native ether
Marked is also statistically more common than most of her other late game boons because it's Tier 1.
Ironically it's easier to get Marked than it is something like Burst Fire because of the tier difference.
And if you get something like Clean Kill instead, that opens up the chance to get her Legendary later on.
native ether
I still think the winning Artemis combo though is Hunting Blades. Take the Artemis keepsake first, then the Ares one to line it up.
Haven't had the chance yet unfortunately, just woke up lol
ember lotus
I never know what the necessary boons are for hunting blades. Does it require you to take Ares cast? Or is it enough to have any Ares and Artemis boon?
pastel jolt
you need ares cast and artemis attack, special, dash, or wrath
why would you be able to get a boon affecting ares' cast if you don't already have ares' cast to begin with?
ember lotus
I wondered if you could get it with a completely empty cast slot
I'm never certain if I want to give up the extra dps on cast-afflicted enemies for the Ares cast boon. Especially if I'm unable to turn it into a larger build
If I take it but then just get a bunch of crit boons, I'd almost prefer keep the cast slot empty
So not taking a cast, if it were an option, seemed like a way to avoid having to commit
But it's apparently not an option. So it's whatever
wheat elbow
Played a sword Athena run myself.
Athena was very compliant on this one. Gave me the special for my sword right away, epic rarity even and I got double nova and super nova.
Even managed to get her legendary later on but missed out on her debuff, never making prefered status go life.
In Asphodel, I went with the arrowhead, wanting to meat Artemis
She showed up exactly once and I did not even go see her because the other room had Athena again.
coarse anvil
In Asphodel, sometimes the reward of chamber would appear far from prince. Even hide in the corner or center of lava. After I reported bug with F10, I find that key was in lava and hidden by smoke.
spice turret
Just managed to do a no-hit Elysium bossfight
Just shredded them
Like, +340% dash attacks, which also inflicted poison, and hit in an area
wheat elbow
Got another 120 Heat run in!
Again with the shield, but a 500% Torment run without frenzy
Torment actually becomes super managable if you cheese the game with Aphrodite + Myrmidon Bracer
lost rose
very nice!!!
wheat elbow
I will upload it later and put it into #self-promotion
There was one very weird occurance that I can't explain to myself.
That's the pact I went with
lost rose
looks solid, yeah
i haven't done 120 on the elysium update, but that's the setup i used to get 120 pre-elysium
wheat elbow
I believe there was no Frenzy pre-elysium, right?
lost rose
no, there was frenzy! i just didn't use it 😛
it really makes everything exponentially harder
wheat elbow
It does. I checked some older videos and there was no option for that I seem to remember
maybe I am mistaking though.
But yes, Frenzy is the worst.
lost rose
question, with the aphrodite damage reduction, does it take that out before it multiplies by the vicious torment multiplier?
wheat elbow
It reduces the total amount of damage by 50%
lost rose
ok so it multiplies by 5 first, and then halves it
wheat elbow
Wretched Thugs deal 10 damage regularly, 60 with full torment, 30 with weakened
by six
lost rose
right, 6
wheat elbow
Not sure how Myrmidon bracer then directly interacts with that damage(or other damage reducing boons) but you absolutely notice the difference
lost rose
i guess it would come out the same either way 🤔
because it's all multipliers
so if you put myrmidon bracer on top it shouldn't matter at which point it enters the equation
wheat elbow
Prtobably.
Weak is the only exception thee because it does not reduce the damage you take but the damage the enemies deal
lost rose
believe this was my pact before
gkdfjgd i took the hit to healing, damn
that was based on suggestions by covertmuffin
this is also a pact distribution before the changes to the dash so i think that costs less darkness now, making a full stifling darkness penalty more feasible
not that it was impossible before, but the little extra boost was worth it
wheat elbow
The worst part about stiffling darkness is the big rarity drop on everything imo
Also the rerolls
wheat elbow
Why is this chat so dead today?
errant narwhal
well, its saturday, i guess?
stable oyster
what if when you died on a heat run you lost all the heat you had bet, but if you won, you doubled it
wheat elbow
Well, what would be the point?
stable oyster
the thrill of gambling
wheat elbow
You can't use heat for anything, so gambling for it wouldn't serve anyone.
Also, I loathe gambling.
stable oyster
but its not really gambling bc its based on your skill
wheat elbow
You just called it gambling yourself.
pseudo ocean
Convenience Fee seems pretty punishing. Is it easier to take that vs Death Insurance? I usually take DI by default.
errant narwhal
convenience fee is easy if you only take it and nothing else significant
its how i did 15 heat
placid silo
I tried a 120-heat run today
Made it halfway in Asphodel, because two slam dancers decided to attack me at the same time Xd
green birch
Riiiiip
native ether
Convenience Fee is easy to manage as long as you run into Infernal Troves fairly frequently
native ether
Its often more hurtful on the wells themselves
they contain lots of heals, death defiances, and boon boosters (which are kinda nice on harder difficulties just to get those better tiers of boon)
wheat elbow
I still want them to rebalance the heat allocation
Out of the 200 you CAN spend, 90 are basically stuffed into just two pact options, Frenzy and Torment
native ether
Rebalanced and more options would be interesting (though I have no idea what more options I want to see tbh)
I would definitely be very interested in seeing some wacky and crazy ideas though. Even if they don't make it into the final versions, experimentation with these systems could very easily pave the way to some cool new addons.
pseudo ocean
Sinking 100,000+ or however much darkness into the last mirror upgrade is tedious to say the least. Maybe they should reduce the cost and give us more things to spend darkness on.
native ether
One that could be cool is a difficulty modifier that kinda "morphs" an enemy's death AI with anothers. For example, say a chance for a Skullcrusher to spawn with the ability to reform after death, like an Elysium enemy. I suspect that would be a lot of work for little payoff though.
I think another addon that could be cool is tiers of difficulty that add exclusive and new enemies to the game with new attacks (even though Dead Cells' difficulty tiers are imo way too punishing damage wise, I love the enemy variety that starts to appear when you increase the difficulty tier. Stuff like that imo is super cool.)
pseudo ocean
I wonder if SGG will continue to work on and update this game like the developers of Dead Cells. Seems like after 2+ years they are still adding content.
Or will they immediately move on to their next project.
native ether
I would love to see post release content for this game, but I guess only time will tell
wheat elbow
I mean, I don't think that the game will grow much larger in terms of total length. We are getting the fourth biom soon, maybe a fifth one after that (I hope) and a sixth weapon for sure.
I'd say that with just the fourth biom and the sixth weapon, that will change the structure and the way we will look at a playthrough tremendously.
If we consider that to be the "main construct" of the game, there will be plenty opportunities to broaden the spectrum this main construct can give you.
More enemy types, more gods with different sets, maybe more secret/side rooms like Chaos/Erebus
native ether
I think I wouldnt want to see any "additional" areas after a 4th biome personally. Runs are gonna likely already border being an 40-60 minutes long.
wheat elbow
Side Characters that can show up here and there
I am convinced that a fourth biome will come with nerfs all across the board for Elysium.
At the very least to the bosses
That should shorten the experience by itself
Also, the question of speed heavily relies on playstyle too.
Most of my Hades runs tend to be 20 to 40 minutes long, yet there are madman finishing it in 15ish
Actually, I got a 16 minute game myself, so never mind that.
native ether
That is actually what kind of happened to Asphodel
when I first bought the game back in December, the Hydra was much much more difficult than he is today
That's also technically just because they made his hitboxes and attacks more clear, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some nerfs to Elysium in the future just so the game doesn't overscale in the 4th biome
I think if I wanted to see any other biomes (besides #4), I'd rather see them as "Alternatives" to other biomes
Like for example you could roll Asphodel or an entirely different biome leaving Tartarus
Things that dont increase my run time, but add more content and more variety.
deft niche
Does the plume lose charge if I don't keep clearing rooms in 30 seconds or less?
Like once I have it stacked a couple of times if I slow down do I lose the stack?
deft niche
Okay good to know, as a disabled gamer who's pretty quick but sometimes not quick enough to clear every room in 30 I thought I was losing the stack for every room that I didn't clear fast enough so I was avoiding it but now that I know that it will maintain itself if I don't build it for every room I'm going to start using it more :)
Also is there a way to tell with it equipped what my dodge chance percentage currently is?
trim ingot
i think if you press tab and hover over it it'll show you
native ether
It'll also tell you your current bonus in the keepsake closet in between each stage
If you swap keepsakes though, you do lose your current bonus, like the Butterfly
wheat elbow
Uploaded my second 120 heat clear, it's in #self-promotion
native ether
rail or bust :kappa:
nova tartan
I have an idea about gaining relationship with Hades. Is to give player choice take boons from gods or not. And if you do not take boons in the end of level(before boss fight) you gain boon from Hades himself as a praise. And eventually make 2 endings : 1 you stand with your father and brother against other gods or you stand with Olympian gods against your father. (I wrote it here couse i don't have right to write in feedback. Sorry)
wheat elbow
On that 120 heat run, the Soul Catcher actually dealt 108 damage to me with something
and I have no idea what that was.
He only throws out butterflies and there was no other exalted enemy on the map.
Is there something I don't know about?
A regular butterfly hit me for 5 damage (Torment - Weak + myrmidon bracer)
native ether
butterfly damage can "stack up" afaik but im not sure how it works
unless you actually got hit by something else and just missed it in the screen clutter (like a strongbow arrow)
wheat elbow
It was literally only me, the soul catcher and a bunch of soul knubs
trim ingot
did you have an athena boon
wheat elbow
no exalted was present in that moment
I had plenty.
Attack, Holy Shield, her debuff
trim ingot
sometimes deflected projectiles can hit you it's a bug
wheat elbow
Aaaaah, thank you
That might be it
The clear was super satisfying to play.
Almost calming, really.
The build came together suiper nicely.
I never had insane damage, but enemies were at regular speed and between Dashing Wallop Deflecting Attacks and me stacking tankiness with weakening and myrmidon bracer, I hardly if ever felt to be in true danger once I got to Asphodel
Also, as I found out:
Another reason to deny Artemis, thesseus invoking her name in the final fight is super managable.
She follows straight patterns, contrary to gods like Zeus who become quite random
proud storm
yeah theseus' artemis ability only really targets the middle of the chamber
and one small aoe at theseus' feet
turbid needle
agreed! glad you like it, that goes in #bastion or #supergiant-games though
wheat elbow
I was about to say more, consider that being the pre-text.
There are a lot of weapons in that game and quite a few mechanics that I'd love to see carry over into Hades.
The spear for example has a jump move which would be an amazing replacement for the spearthrow special we currently have.
errant narwhal
back to 60 heat runs.. im using speedrun strats
swapped the special and attack keybinds and im ready to go
errant narwhal
beat the hydra! only used one death defy near the end, but thats also all the death defies i had left...
got that double nova+super nova combo yeet
wish me luck
i rlly hope this is the one bc if im being honest i prefer playing with no heat
native ether
What modifiers are you using? (On heat)
errant narwhal
passing through is an absolute lifesaver when playing with max whipped frenzy
native ether
Oh god you're maxing frenzy
errant narwhal
Y E E T
errant narwhal
as i said, speedrun strat
native ether
Good luck :p
errant narwhal
yeah but it helped to get to this point with as much hp as i have
ty! will report back
ok i died but i got theseus to half
so thats good
placid silo
If anything, get a maxed out bracer
native ether
I recommend the Bracer for Torment runs
I personally in general don't recommend the Frenzy strat just because the extra time the run takes for me doesn't bug me (cause I found for me, it's less attempts)
Though getting Poison and "enemies move slower while poisoned" might help you out a lot since I think that does work on Bosses.
errant narwhal
i dont have the bracer maxed out hahaa
i usually only go with god keepsakes
i had convenience fee maxed as well so i did coin purse, skull earring, spiked collar
wheat elbow
Maybe it's just me but if I max out Convenience Fee, I never take Coin Purse.
Convenience Fee devalues the coin purse.
vale sphinx
I mean having 400 when you’re at the shop means you can get hammer, boon and heal when you enter
trim ingot
Inconvenience Fee
wheat elbow
I look at it like this:
200 from Coinpurse = 1 1/3 godboons
200 from coinpurse with inconvenience fee = 2/3 of a god boon.
That is a huge dip in terms of value there.
The same goes for money rewarding rooms
Why would you ever go for a 75 coin reward room if you can (almost always) get an alternative reward instead that is worth three to four times as much?
But I digress. Convenience Fee + Coinpurse = Waste of resources.
I'd rather put that very first keepsake into a god keepsake to give the run the direction I want it to have.
On the other hand, convenience fee is just 10 heat, so you could just skip out of it for something else instead
which would in turn bring back the coin purse.
vale sphinx
Makes sense
errant narwhal
but convenience fee is easy to deal with because it doesnt make you die faster
i just take coin rooms and then im never short on cash even with it
and the coin purse helps with that
wheat elbow
Can be a dead of attritrion though.
Shops are an important source for HP and empowerment.
You basically half the power of that source.
vast robin
Just randomly found out about Hades because I downloaded the Epic store for Dauntless, it looks awesome. How much content is there right now to sink into? Is there a development roadmap anywhere with timelines of when new things would be coming out?
unkempt pagoda
3/4 biomes currently in the game, with a lot of story stuff already implemented
4th biome is the next update, and the roadmap is within the game itself
not sure if there's another place to find it
5/6 weapons, a lot of gods, enemies, and characters (with more on the way) that are really entertaining to listen to and interact with
wheat elbow
It's going to be worth your while.
native ether
see I havent maxed most of the keepsakes tbh
But I actually dont run around shops myself. I avoid them unless I'm doing really badly and simply need to not run a room.
Or if I have lots of money to spend on 1 shop
if you have the keys to blow on infernal troves though, convenience fee is a very minor debuff tbh
wheat elbow
I mean, on easy runs, that is true, yes.