h1-builds-and-combat

[indigo compass]

seeing the heads allways atk super fast and can hit u easily while trying to dodge away

[plush shell]

To be honest I find the state of specials and casts to be really miserable.

I know a lot of people really like cast builds, but I just can't get my head around them. They don't do enough damage at base to be worth using over specials or attacks.

And you can't consistently use them either.

[willow kindle]

oneshotting low level enemies is called 'not enough damage'?)

[autumn tapir]

specials are bad, but casts are super good

[willow kindle]

I've almost finished hydra today with only casts and special maxed

[autumn tapir]

they were so good that artemis got nerfed almost three times

[plush shell]

It oneshots, what, a numbskull?

[willow kindle]

numb/ witch/ war

[indigo compass]

lol yes numbskulls are one of the most annoying enemies in the game

oneshotting them is good:)

[plush shell]

(true)

[willow kindle]

it oneshots almost anything if you add a special to the cast + damage maximize when enemy triggered by cast

[indigo compass]

yeah beffore the last nerf artemis cast with crit was insane

was critting 1700+

[willow kindle]

if it stacked with backstab.. owhhh

ok. almost 2 am. gotta go sleep.
cya tomorrow guys. Have some good sleep cast;lel

[dusky drum]

i feel like a good 120 heat build with bow would be start with posiedon trinket and hope for attack because of knockback, then ares dash, in asphodel switch to either distant memory, lucky tooth, or skull earring

[drifting hemlock]

I did all of tartarus and half asphodel with nothing but zeus special on shield

120 heat ofc

[hard holly]

I think Athena has more value than Poseidon

Youre likely giving enemies a ton of damage, which means deflects one-shot them

[pastel jolt]

athena attack is very hard to use for deflect on bow in my experience

but then again if i turned off autoaim i'd never hit anything

[dusky drum]

yea but when your surrounded by armoured skullomats with 2 death insurance you need knockback

[hard holly]

Honestly, its not

Since enemies attack towards you

So if you attack them, you deflect anyway

And deflect works on melee attacks and dashes and the like as well, which is fun

[dusky drum]

just you need space with bow tho

[hard holly]

Generally you can dodge to make enough space

[plush shell]

How useful do you folks find Athena's slowdodge?

[dusky drum]

not at all

are you doing heat or are you just wondering

[plush shell]

Just wondering. I picked it on like my second run when I didn't know any better.

Never again.

[hard holly]

Its fine on some weapons

But Im generally not a big fan

[drifting hemlock]

Slower to let you deflect things isnt better than being faster and not getting hit

like you i had the "Never again" feel

[pastel jolt]

i'm up to 50 rare / 20 epic on the mirror..... gotta keep going :D

[drifting hemlock]

No! Stop! cant keep going! 😮

[native kelp]

is it better to just hit give up and start over than committing to a super low damage build

[drifting hemlock]

Its dangerous!

depends on your skill level

and if you're using heat

[native kelp]

*patience you mean?

[drifting hemlock]

No

if you are experienced then sure its a game of patience but if you believe you're prone to losing over prolonged fights then yes you might aswell give up

oh and theres the factor of fun aswell, if you arent having fun then theres little point 😄

[plush shell]

A low damage build? You mean like starting with a centaur heart? /s

[hard holly]

Generally speaking

You can find good enough damage soon enough

Unless you already picked an unfortunate boon and hammer upgrade

[native kelp]

i mean more or less yeah the fun died out pretty quick. I feel it's more about dodging a lot in disadvantaged situations than actually getting better

[lost rose]

you should play in whatever way is fun for you! if a run isn't doing it for you, you can ditch it if you want rather than dying slowly over a lot of stages. no harm in that

[hard holly]

But if, idk, you picked bow and got an ares upgrade and a choice between steady shot, rapid shot and the special upgrade

Yeah, Id give up

[lost rose]

Like there's no real penalty for sacrificing a run

Dad laughs at you

But

[native kelp]

I got like three aphrodites ina row

doing about 34 to medusa felt like cancer.

[hard holly]

To Meg ya mean?

What weapon

[native kelp]

no to medusa

meg is a joke. just kite around even if you dont have damage. after about 6 minutes she will die

[hard holly]

Oh the Gorgon you mean

That one is really easy usually

How do you do only 34 damage to her

[native kelp]

No idea

[hard holly]

I guess shield attack maybe?

[plush shell]

Damage for most weapons is pretty piddly unless you've got Zeus or Ares (or a lot of ranks in the others) tbh.

At least by Asphodel standards.

[pastel jolt]

nooooooooooo

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

i just lost a really, really good hydra run because i accidentally dodged right into the main head's stomp

i was about to wipe out the last head phase ;3;

man, and i don't even have a screenshot of the loadout

it was ridiculous

[drifting hemlock]

"i mean more or less yeah the fun died out pretty quick. I feel it's more about dodging a lot in disadvantaged situations than actually getting better" - this is exactly what makes you better

Having a strong build isnt what makes you better

if anything having a too strong build makes you lazy and unaware

[hard holly]

Uhhh

No

If anything damage from most weapons is bad if you get Ares

Otherwise, Athena and Poseidon provide the biggest damage boost and stuff like hammer upgrades increase that further

34 damage is very low, I can only think of shield that would do that damage

Or spear and sword, but those do that amount of damage so often that it doesnt feel bad

[pastel jolt]

athena gives the highest % boost, then poseidon, then aphrodite; ares and zeus give flat boosts and artemis does crit chance

[hard holly]

Athena and Poseidon are exactly on par now, actually

[pastel jolt]

oh really? i thought poseidon was still slightly below

that's neat

[hard holly]

From what I know, theyre both 40% at common

[pastel jolt]

huh. wiki needs updating then

.......wiki needs a lot of updating, to be fair.

[turbid needle]

smb else noticed the atermis dash bug?

i didnt see it in the feedback chat

[still pewter]

it's a known issue

[turbid needle]

ah ok good, then i dont need to put up another feedback

[still pewter]

the devs should be aware

but I don't see a post in feedback. idk, sorry @pastel jolt for pinging you, is the arte dash bug reported properly?

[pastel jolt]

it's a known issue

[still pewter]

whoops you're already here

lol

[pastel jolt]

literally about to answer

[still pewter]

[pastel jolt]

yeah, devs know about it, it's an issue with a backwards-compatibility fix being too overzealous and removing rarity effects when it shouldn't be

at least, that's the explanation that was given the other day

tl;dr: yeah, it's broken and going to be fixed

[still pewter]

👍

[tulip timber]

Yeah, I think Alice jumped in yesterday, claimed responsibility, and then vanished again. 😃

[rough condor]

So did anyone actually do the 150 heat run already?

[tulip timber]

There are vids.

Dunno if anything since the most recent mini-patch (which apparently will be the last while they focus on next major patch, unless there is some as-yet-undiscovered bug that will brick peoples' computers).

At least that was the impression I got on the patch notes channel.

[forest marsh]

Here's a link to Tazak's post in #self-promotion doing max pact run

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/505164873328754688/535503061205123082

[serene isle]

WILL MARCO FINALLY LEARN TO PLAY ANYTHING BUT SPECIAL SHIELD

[turbid needle]

still need to gather some more heat

[drifting hemlock]

Did they remove the "more bounces" option from the shield on daedalus hammer?

never seem to find it anymore

[forest marsh]

Not that I'm aware of... I saw it recently

[quaint gale]

the power of true random

[drifting hemlock]

Well considering im a only-shield dude and havent seen it in my last 10 runs, but ah well, RNGesus is not with me

[forest marsh]

You lead a shielded life, friend

[drifting hemlock]

Hmm on one hand i want special boons from chaos to add to the damage of ares and zeus' specials, but on the other hand i have a feeling that it would be too OP

[hard holly]

It wouldnt

It shouldnt because thats inconsistent, but it wouldnt be op. It wouldnt even be good

[drifting hemlock]

Elaborate on why not

[hard holly]

Why it wouldnt be good?

Well, because for any of the good specials, athena and Poseidon would remain better anyway

On account of their strongest being when their damage is multiplied by Hammer upgrades

[drifting hemlock]

Why are athena and poseidon better.

[hard holly]

Well, because those hammer upgrades multiply their damage

Also their base damage is just considerably more effective

The reason it shouldnt multiply is because it doesnt on the attack boons

Which would possible be a bit strong with Zeus on Spear and Flurry Blade

[drifting hemlock]

So a 15dmg shield with 100% from athena is better than 100 flat from ares, sounds wrong

[hard holly]

Well I have already mentioned that I believe shield special is atrocious

Hence "for any of the good specials"

Its better for shield, but shields special would have to be buffed a lot just to reach "decent" status, let alone op

[graceful bough]

I'm not comfortable with any of the keepsakes but the skull earring.

I've given several other a shot and, I dunno, I'm just not feeling it.

[drifting hemlock]

Random stray thought, how come we aren't able to choose a boon, the hammer or a heart by ourselves in the first room, we have the ability to die right away and re-try our luck for what we want, so why not just have all three presented

Also, whats with the innate blocking shield? Just wanted to redo a run and tried to insta die from a brimstone, after 5-6 ticks from its dmg i just got an impervious shield and stopped taking dmg for a while

[plush shell]

I'd be fine with the first room being random if we had any real ability to influence what we get from it.

[drifting hemlock]

Then it wouldnt be random tho

[plush shell]

Like if the gods' keepsakes made it so that the starting drop was one of their boons.

Likewise if you could get some kind of Daedalus keepsake.

[abstract glen]

Hey, I just noticed that on the saved files, there's a row titled location. When the final game is released, are we gonna be able to save when in a portion of the Underworld?

[turbid needle]

Hi, is point blank shot still there ?

[forest marsh]

Yup

[turbid needle]

Ty

[forest marsh]

@abstract glen You can already leave mid-run, if that's what you're asking. The game saves at the end of combat and when you enter a new room

And by leave I mean quit out of the game while keeping your progress

I should say, at the end of combat but after you accept the reward

[abstract glen]

Kay, I've been completing every run I've had, so never had that happen

I'm curious to see if one can finish the game on the first initial run

[forest marsh]

People have done that already in the current amount of content, and I'm sure they'll do it again when the game is finished

[abstract glen]

Cool, there'll probably be an acheivement for it

[forest marsh]

I hope so! That would be nice

[abstract glen]

Though, if that happens, what would the story be?

[plush shell]

Or a "beat the game with no upgrades and only the sword" achievement.

So that you don't have to retry constantly with new save files.

[abstract glen]

Zag initially leaves because he's tired of Hades, later on he wants to leave to see his mom

[plush shell]

Unless the flashback/dream is actually chronologically sound?

[forest marsh]

Not quite accurate, the scene where Zag discovers who is real mother is is a flashback

[abstract glen]

Then why does he confront Nyx about that right after?

[forest marsh]

Because it wouldn't make sense for him to do it before the player had seen the scene

[turbid needle]

He had been told and thought nyx was his mother

[plush shell]

He confronts her about it in the flashback, yeah. I think he starts making active mention of it after the flashback (after you finish that run) too, yeah.

But never any accusations.

It doesn't come up beforehand, I guess you could say? 🤷

[abstract glen]

Yeah, I guess a minor plot hole that'll probably be fixed later

[plush shell]

It's possible there's a line where he's referring to Nyx as his mother before the flashback/dream, but I don't remember, it's been so long.

[turbid needle]

Nyx refers to him as her son

[abstract glen]

But this is a what if, and most people are gonna take a lot of tries to even finish the final product

[plush shell]

Nyx refers to him as her son afterwards too.

I also got the impression that Zag still sees Nyx as his mother in a lot of ways - she raised him. I think they talk about this after the flashback.

[turbid needle]

Yeah but this might be out of habit. I'm pretty sure he was told nyx was his mother.

[plush shell]

I do wish that Zag-and-narrator's little bit about finding out about his mother was less oblique though.

[turbid needle]

It's kind of strange for a greek god to feel the need to know his mother though

I don't see greek godesses as maternal, though I can understand why for Nyx as she is the night and birthed many things but not really for more classical godesses

[plush shell]

Zag's not just leaving for the sake of finding his mother, though. He still wants to leave just to escape Hades (both person and place).

[drifting hemlock]

What makes you think that

[turbid needle]

Cause that's the way Zag is, he is motivated by multiple reasons and very human-like in his nature. He has a god above him, he's stuck in his plane, despite being eternal, for some reason he sees time as an ennemy, and doesn't show superiority towards men or any creature, he doesn't really act on impulse or whims like other gods (but chtonian ones) do but rather because he wants to. He's also very much a teen so, authority, bleh

[drifting hemlock]

Quotes and stuff to back it up?

I mean it sounds good and all, just sounds very made up from nothing

[turbid needle]

Have you played/watched the game ?

[drifting hemlock]

Yes.

[turbid needle]

Though it's not the primary motivation, it's quite obvious his relationship with his father is one reason to leave this place

[pastel jolt]

If you're going to discuss lore stuff, could you shuffle on over into #h1-story-discussion please? This is the gameplay channel, it's supposed to be focused on, uh. Gameplay, and such.

[abstract glen]

Another thing I noticed, Zag always speaks in a very monotone voice

[pastel jolt]

hey, he has emotions!

[forest marsh]

I don't think it's quote monotone, but it's definitely nuanced

[plush shell]

I rather like it.

[abstract glen]

Also, Zag is like one of the most respectful greek beings I've ever seen

[woeful stirrup]

Why would deflected Hydra shots do more damage? They don't do much to you, they should not do much to the Hydra either (unless you were using something that boosts the damage of deflected attacks) @glossy fog

[glossy fog]

Because the Witch Shots do 40 damage when reflected

And most charge attacks do slightly extra, or at least have a wall rush bonus

[forest marsh]

Meg's deflected projectiles also don't do elevated damage ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[glossy fog]

The Medusa's have the benefit of Petrification

That's true they don't, but that's not as big of a deal early game, and there are also tons of them

[forest marsh]

I feel like magnifying the deflected damage on the boss fights might negatively affect the balance of the fight, but that's just my opinion

[drifting hemlock]

that would be insane aswell, considering meg shoots like 100000 bullets everytime she attacks, hydra too, Athena would be a must pick 😄

[woeful stirrup]

Would make anything other than Athena worthless on a bow special.

[shadow heath]

hey, does anyone else not have permission to post in the feedback channel? is there a reason for that?

[lost rose]

Check the pinned post

[shadow heath]

ahhh thanks, i must've missed that line last time i read it

[rugged horizon]

fyi to all, dont quit during the power selection screen of a boon or hammer, itll make you lose the item all together

[bright kite]

Some1 else reffers to her as his Mother, dont remember which God tho

Oops not here :p

[severe jewel]

has anyone else been noticing that hunter dashes with a higher rarity that common are set to common as soon as you enter the next room? i reported it as a bug but wanted to see if anyone else is having this or if its an edge case. bc its happened to me 3 times in a row

[forest marsh]

Yes, it's a known issue and they're working on a fix

[severe jewel]

awesome

[wary parrot]

can anyone tell me why not to roll with bow + hunter dash?

[novel kiln]

bow

have you no shame?

face those wretched souls in honorable melee combat

you owe them that much

[wary parrot]

is there anything better that u can get reliably?

nah

frig them

they are dead anyways

[novel kiln]

you deserve to never escape tartarus

[wary parrot]

i mean

i just 4 shoted meg

[novel kiln]

bro that's not cool

[wary parrot]

:v

[novel kiln]

meg was just doing her job

[wary parrot]

i know

but i also am doing my job

well

kinda my job

[novel kiln]

🤔

[wary parrot]

btw is it only me or hammer for bow is much stronger then for other weapons?

[still pewter]

it kinda is

I think bow has more strong options than other weapons

but all have something really strong

[wary parrot]

what is good hammer boon for rest?

i beted game once with all weapons but didnt get anything that would last a good impression

well maybe super fast attacks for sword with zeus boon

[still pewter]

world splitter and fury blade for sword. big spin/fast spin unreachable thrust for spear. sudden rush for sheild

[exotic hazel]

So I think it might be possible to get a combined 100% damage reduction with super good luck

[vagrant pebble]

have they announced anything about new weapons at all?

[exotic hazel]

though Im not sure if its multiplicative

Myrmidon Bracer (Max) = 35%
Bronze Skin (Epic) = 25%
Different League (Epic) = 37%
Defensive Aura (Aegis) = 20%
Total = 117% Damage reduction

Not to mention that even if the god boons aren't maxed, they can still be buffed with Pom

So if they're additive, it's definitely possible to get 100% DR, multiplicative can still get you down to about 1 damage from all sources tho

I want to try and get all that on a run now lol

[wary parrot]

well time to test it

[exotic hazel]

Shouldn't be too hard tbh

[wary parrot]

but tbh who need damage reduction when u can have 2k crits

[exotic hazel]

Well I mean, completely maxed out builds are super busted, Ares blade builds are horrifyingly strong

Its just about goofs at this point lol

[wary parrot]

i mean i have 2 boons from artemis and hammer boon and just started asphodel

[exotic hazel]

What boons?

[wary parrot]

crit on attack and hunter dash with slow draw for bow

[exotic hazel]

I guess thats technically possible to get 2k crits with, but ew the prereqs

dash, crit, power shot, backstab, on an enemy with a bloodstone in em

and armor eats it all anyway 🤷

[wary parrot]

well i forgot to use my bloodstones

oops

[stable oyster]

I hit for about 10k one time with a shield throw

[safe salmon]

How you madman

[stable oyster]

Large dmg buff on shield, long room in asp, lots of skull spawners, + 100% dmg on each bounce

I hit Like 20 on the return bounce

[safe salmon]

Had the same thing with chain lightning buff and secondary lightning balls on hit, with extended bounces for the shield throw. One throw and the screen lit up in lightning. Gotta love skull mobs

[obtuse merlin]

ares with plus blade rift duration and dash rift = screen full of rifts pretty fun

[turbid needle]

Noice

[obtuse merlin]

feels like a bit of luck it would make a strong high heat build

[turbid needle]

I like how when you uncover the 1st statue you can hear the devs saying "oh you think you started playing ? Better git gud"

[obtuse merlin]

yeah I started playing with 17 heat on by default just to keep me sharp, but 60 this will be a real challenge o.O

[turbid needle]

So far I enjoy the heat but I don't think I'll put much heat in the capping darkness thingie

I enjoy my epic boons

But with only 17 heat the game does get harder, that's nice

[obtuse merlin]

the extra shield thing is doable

but it makes single hit builds much harder

[turbid needle]

I don't personally enjoy these builds so good riddance

[obtuse merlin]

RIP spin dash spear

[turbid needle]

Hehe

[obtuse merlin]

I kinda liked it

[turbid needle]

Exploiting a mechanic should never be that rewarding

[obtuse merlin]

it had tricky timing / aim element that was satisfying to nail

everything is an exploit

[pastel jolt]

i kinda want to start playing around with heat but i also can't consistently beat the hydra even on 0 heat, so,

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[obtuse merlin]

just as long as there is variety of viable builds I am happy

[turbid needle]

It takes some times getting used to but you'll get there

I had to do more than 40-50 runs to beat hydra haha

[obtuse merlin]

current fav strat is charons + 3 temp items and pick up a bloodgate item

4 x bloodgate

[turbid needle]

Which is terrible cause most bosses in undertale took me one to two tries

[obtuse merlin]

ftw

[turbid needle]

Ooooooh

Nice, didn't think of doing that

[obtuse merlin]

you can get crazy synergy with cast build esp

I had 8 x zues bolt

[turbid needle]

Rooms must have gotten cleared in a flash

[obtuse merlin]

I beat Hydra with 17 heat but it wasn't a spectacular clear

[turbid needle]

Well heat forces to git gud and rely less on boon luck

My 16 heat clear of hydra wasn't spectacular either tbh

[pastel jolt]

15 heat run let's gooooo

i've gone for the one that shields enemies for two hits as one fewer boon choice

baby steps

[somber epoch]

k have fun

[errant narwhal]

I believe in you sparrow 💪

[somber epoch]

i believe in

[turbid needle]

Go get em

[pastel jolt]

fun fact: zeus attack boon counts as another hit

i've lucked out into a pretty good sword build i think

[somber epoch]

i really want the game to break one day and allow for world splitter and flurry blade in the same run

[pastel jolt]

going well so far...!

[somber epoch]

thunder dash v good

[turbid needle]

Especially with the shield thingie

[pastel jolt]

damnit, no flurry blade from the hammer

went for super nova instead

[errant narwhal]

super nova is nice

[somber epoch]

now i've got umvc3 music stuck in my head

[turbid needle]

With tempest flourish that'll give you some air

[pastel jolt]

meg downed

[somber epoch]

meg drowned*

[drifting hemlock]

Conglaturation, A winner is you

[turbid needle]

I think I finally got good at Hades. I can consistently beat the Hydra

Feels good man

[somber epoch]

i can beat meg most of the time

[turbid needle]

Now turn the heat on

[pastel jolt]

........nice, discord thinks my screenshot is explicit

anyway

i just finished a zeus and poseidon trial of the gods

and my two choices:

• another zeus and poseidon trial
• just zeus

uncles REALLY want to help me out this run huh

[somber epoch]

hi can i steal your run thanks

[turbid needle]

How do you get legendary boons btw ?

[pastel jolt]

wait a minute, i think i'm actually guaranteed to get zeus's legendary now

i have attack/special/dash/cast boons and storm lightning, so even with one choice removed my only options left re: zeus are heaven's vengeance and splitting bolt

ahahahahahahaha YES

[somber epoch]

s t e a l

[pastel jolt]

OH MY GOD DASH IS BEAUTIFUL NOW.

[somber epoch]

be careful thou

you might crash the game

[pastel jolt]

i need to record this

this is beautiful

dash all day every day

[somber epoch]

does zag have headphones in

is he listening to some acdc

is he listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AC41dglnM

[pastel jolt]

murderboar got murdered

[safe salmon]

godspeed fellow escapee

[vagrant pebble]

I got max life 3 times in a row in the first chamber

Are they planning to remove that spawn feom there?

[pastel jolt]

god i wish i'd recorded that

[somber epoch]

you didn't get the posideon legendary, didn't count

try agian

[pastel jolt]

the sad thing is

i could've

i took sunken treasure in the second trial instead of breaking wave and then went into a shop where there was a poseidon boon

[turbid needle]

No death defiances used and a very good timer noice

[pastel jolt]

yeah, that's the bit that impresses me most

usually i lose at least one death defy on hydra

and i get back and orpheus is singing today is a Good Day

[turbid needle]

Hydra is a bit harder now hat we don't recover health from the damage

[finite nova]

Hydra is not that hard

IMHO

Just kill the heads one after another and dash away from the BASH OF THE HEAD

gg u r awesome

[pastel jolt]

soundin like hypnos there buddy

[somber epoch]

do you guys like thick skin more than avenging gain?

[worn dawn]

I prefer avenging gain

Affected gameplay more

[somber epoch]

i like thick skin better but that's because im terrible at the game

[pastel jolt]

how the heck did i do worse on a no-heat run

[worn dawn]

F

[somber epoch]

bc you didn't get two trials in a row

duh

also that chaos boon isn't super spicy

[pastel jolt]

yeah, i really got screwed in terms of boons

i was almost at meg before i even got the artemis boon and i started with her keepsake

[somber epoch]

i kinda wish you could back out of a chaos choice

[pastel jolt]

eh, i kinda like that you have to pick one

[somber epoch]

Yeah, me too

maybe make it so you can back out if you have Chaos Egg

i mean cosmic egg

[pastel jolt]

on the subject of chaos i finally finished up the tables for their boons on the wiki: https://hades.gamepedia.com/Chaos

[worn fulcrum]

I got a level 2 Chaos boon for the first time yesterday!

[somber epoch]

nice stub

[pastel jolt]

idk why 90% of the articles are marked as stubs lmao

[worn fulcrum]

We haven't talked to the characters enough to unlock their full wiki entries

[pastel jolt]

actually 59% if you want to get picky

[worn fulcrum]

:3

[somber epoch]

sparrowperson you might want to put that chaos boon curse effects can't straight up kill you

[pastel jolt]

yeah, i noticed that the other day but forgot to make a note of it on the wiki

not sure where to put it..... i don't wally wanna repeat the same sentence four times in a row on the table itself

[somber epoch]

put it after the codex entry

[pastel jolt]

done

[novel kiln]

why is Broseidon's name Poseidon in the wiki

[pastel jolt]

because that's his name

[novel kiln]

no it's Broseidon

the Cool Uncle

[summer axle]

Is there anything specific you have to do to get a Legendary boon? I've never seen one in the wild, I only know they exist because of the wiki =p

[somber epoch]

you need to get at least 2 boons from theggod

[pastel jolt]

well, technically yeah

[worn fulcrum]

you need a boon which needs another boon (not just any 2 boons)

[pastel jolt]

mhm

so for example: to get splitting bolt from zeus, you need storm lightning, and to get storm lightning, you need lightning strike, thunder flourish, thunder dash or electric shot

[somber epoch]

yeah

[finite nova]

btw i am so done then i almost made it less than 11 minutes AND BAM, SURVIVE FOR 55 YEARS..........................

Even Meg is faster to beat 😩

[plush blaze]

You can do it

[frank plover]

is there a huntress bug? i chose rare dash attack boon but got normal 100% instead of 130% or something

[somber epoch]

not to my knowledge

what weapon and can you send a screenshot of the boon

[frank plover]

i mean ive already picked it, and at the side it showed 100%, until i upgraded with pom

in the pom it showed 100% too

[somber epoch]

h r m

it might just be a weird roll

[hard holly]

Thats a bug thats happened to some people, yes

[pastel jolt]

oh

@frank plover @somber epoch hunter dash is currently bugged and will revert to common rarity and 100% effect when you leave the room where you got it

[somber epoch]

ah, i c

[pastel jolt]

known issue, just a bit of code beign overzealous and fixing what doesn't need fixed

[frank plover]

ok

cool

[finite nova]

@plush blaze I CANT DOWNLOAD MY RUN, ILL TELL U LATER BUT I AM DONE AS HELL BTW

[plush blaze]

What happened?

[finite nova]

Lets go to another server

[pastel jolt]

....??

[frigid rain]

Badabing badaboom

Onions

[still pewter]

I think challenge rooms can be a lot better

Especially the no hit ones.

[frigid rain]

I think No-Hit rooms could be a different reward, maybe

As Hades himself is challenging Zagreus, maybe it's a Boon from him that Zag receives if he passes
Usually for me, they end up being poms or heat or ambrosia

[still pewter]

I think it makes sense that they'd be optional

Since you risk your reward

A simple scenario would be: Ican go do the normal room for a normal reward, or I can try the no hit room for a bigger reward

[frigid rain]

Maybe succeeding on the no-hit doubles the reward, assuming it's an item, or strengthens the boon?

Say Hades interferes with the 'message' if you fail

But then again, the onion is really good both character and story wise

[still pewter]

I think this is an interesting decision and serves both the good and the average player. The good can try and get the risky reward, while the average doesn't get potentially robbed of a reward

Double reward is a way to go about it. I still hope a more interesting reward structure makes its way into the game

Or a more interesting system rather. Aside from boons

[stray radish]

also would be great what i saw in the feedback, if you fail the challenge, the enemies just despawn

i usually just like, physically deflate anyway when i fail xD

dont need to fight more for nothing at this point

[frigid rain]

whoop
Despawning the enemies and showing up with the onion reinfoces the "you messed up" mentality

[stray radish]

well that's what it currently is

i didnt sign up for the challenge room in the first place

xD

[frigid rain]

But then it would turn into a free room for some, where instead of looking for how to kill the enemies, they seek out "what will do the least damage" and take it intentionally

[stray radish]

especially in Asphodel, for me that's a guaranteed onion room with a lot of hp to lose

this is why maybe getting the normal reward vs doubled reward wouldnt work for these rooms

but if it stayed as it is, fine ill take the onion

just let me out of this misery xD

[frigid rain]

Well maybe it has the two next to each other
With the warning on one, and the regular reward on the other, so that you could take the safer option

[still pewter]

Yeah, that's what I'm suggesting

[stray radish]

like from the story point, the onion is brilliant. from the gameplay point, i hate this

[still pewter]

Really basic, yet tried and true risk/reward

[worn fulcrum]

It's troublesome to me that they're basically the opposite of the other 'challenging' rooms

[stray radish]

even better when it's a dont get hit challenge but stepping into lava makes you fail. lava can't hit you

[worn fulcrum]

In that you want to do a no-hit challenge when you're stronger short-term to leverage that strength into later in the game, and you want to do other elite rooms to sacrifice health for longer-term strength (if you aren't currently strong)

[frigid rain]

Which brings up another thing

I kind of wish there were more varied mid-run rewards
Currently, the things that affect a single run are Health, Coin, and Boons
Currently, I'm gunning for every key, ambrosia, and darkness over nearly any other reward
Once everything is full up, I see myself gunning only for safe routes, boons, and coin
Maybe some other in-run rewards?

[woeful stirrup]

You forgot about poms and hammers.

Really, in Asphodel, nearly every room forces you to make a choice between two interesting things.

[stray radish]

death vs more death

:D

[tired pivot]

@frigid rain yeah. The mix of meta and in-run rewards in the same pool makes it a bit weird once you've maxxed out mera rewards. From what I've heard there might be plans to add next-run buffs using meta rewards so you still have a use for them.

[proud storm]

😎 https://i.imgur.com/nyjXvVh.png

[somber epoch]

not 300, run cancelled

[pastel jolt]

@fluid badger - i can X out of that screen just by hitting B (i use a 360 controller), what controller are you using?

[somber epoch]

hey team, what are your strategies for dealing with hydra

[pastel jolt]

panic

[somber epoch]

i tried that

it didn't work

[stray radish]

die before hydra so i dont have to deal with it

[proud storm]

i want everyone to know that despite starting the fight at 297hp hydra managed to make me use death defiance once

in my defense i had literally one (1) good boon

[somber epoch]

nice

better than me

[frigid rain]

@tired pivot I certainly hope so. Heat certainly seems like it could be used in this manner, with how rare it is to obtain it could be used for some real nice pre-run rewards

[shadow oak]

step one for hydra : hit

step two: make sure you don't miss

step three: don't GET hit

[somber epoch]

thanks for the TED talk

[woeful stirrup]

I usually do better on Hydra when I have below 100 max health. Mostly because of more boons and poms, but also because more careful. Max I got, which was before the thick skin update (I haven't played since that one), was 210, and the Hydra killed me, breaking my streak.

[pliant hawk]

@proud storm the enemy of zagreus

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/supermonkeyball/images/5/51/295656-fireshot_pro_capture_7_welcome_to_super_monkey_ball_world_www_monkeyballworld_com_large.png/revision/latest?cb=20100220082340

DOCTOR BAD BOON

[novel kiln]

Unironically set yourself on fire

That is your just pun-ishment

[pliant hawk]

No

Fear not the purifying flame

[exotic hazel]

I got up to ~375 hp once because of Poseidons double health boon super early on and I kept hitting centaur hearts

honestly I think anything above 150 hp is overkill

[proud storm]

you can't go overkill in hell really

[drifting hemlock]

Depends if you have heat on, but then again, if you got that much health it means you have little boon power and thus most likely wont get through 😄

[hybrid kestrel]

i'm stuck in asphodel

some tiny gorgon ran away

what do?

[still pewter]

wait, how far away

like, away away?

out of sight away?

[hybrid kestrel]

yep

and i don't know which direction it went

[still pewter]

are you sure you haven't completed the room

[hybrid kestrel]

yep

[still pewter]

and just haven't picked up your reward?

[hybrid kestrel]

exits are loced

[still pewter]

look around for like a Pom or something

it has happened to me

otherwise, idk try using some casts and see if/where they home

[hybrid kestrel]

it says foes nearby when i try to exit

[still pewter]

if you end up with nothing, report it with F10

[pastel jolt]

probably a pest or something

oh wait asphodel

[hybrid kestrel]

and casts aren't homing in on any direction

[still pewter]

maybe a skull crasher is blending in the surroundings?

I know it's probably not it

but idk, still tossing it out there

[hybrid kestrel]

that's a shame, such a good run

[still pewter]

😦 rip

you'll have many more 😄

[glad oyster]

for what are the red skulls?

heat is called i think

[pastel jolt]

they're for powering up the pact of punishment!

[glad oyster]

okey what pact of punishment hahahaha

i won the game three times and i have no idea what is that

[woeful stirrup]

A thing to increase the difficulty.

The desk in your bedroom.

[glad oyster]

ohhhh

i didnt unlock it

yet

thankssss

[drifting hemlock]

I honestly dont get people not liking "the grind" of keepsakes, takes 3 runs, maybe about an hour if you're slow-ish

[stray radish]

and if you really hate one... just dont use it xD

[turbid needle]

That, and while it may "suck" for a current player, a new player picking up the game now/later on it's not gonna feel like a nerf.

[drifting hemlock]

Exactly

Same goes for people wanting buffs for casts and stuff, it's basically only because they felt how powerful casts and stuff were before the nerf

[somber epoch]

i want casts to give zag a wizard hat

you can't take this from me

[stray radish]

buffs for casts? as in the reduced charge?

but we got Chaos

i had 7 and saw someone here have 9 at some point xD

also that's valid feedback, Max

[drifting hemlock]

As in the cast in general

Damage and the 1 less charge

[somber epoch]

I think it would be interesting if you could change the way cast damage works

like, for example, deal % percent of max health with a cap if you have a certain upgrade

[stray radish]

👀

saw some similar feedback for keepsakes to passively boost you a little

like Artemis would give a small crit chance

[drifting hemlock]

Nah, percentage would have to be so low because of bosses so it wouldnt matter anyway really

[stray radish]

Poseidon could have that %hp bonus

that could actually be a little broken with his synergy xD

you'd be surprised how great %max hp could be

it wouldnt have to be too low since it would be your max hp, not boss's max hp

[somber epoch]

@drifting hemlock that's why i said cap

[drifting hemlock]

And thats why i said it would have to be quite low anyways meaning that you're most likely better off having flat damage

[somber epoch]

hydra has what, 8000 health?

[drifting hemlock]

yes

[stray radish]

maybe they could make it a chance

[somber epoch]

say the cast damage has a cap of like, 200

[stray radish]

cause every game needs more rng :D

[somber epoch]

what's an infernobomber health

[drifting hemlock]

1600 or so with shield iirc

[somber epoch]

then yeah, cap it at 200 damage or a percentag

you could also scale it so that the more overall damage you do the longer the drop time becomes

[drifting hemlock]

if thats without a base damage its too low, you'd rather have flat since it goes beyond 200, if it's with the base, then it quickly becomes too high

[tired pivot]

@frigid rain Yeah. I just think it would be better to gain meta resources from a different way than in-run rewards.

Like make challenge chests or whatever they're called occur more often but just give meta rewards.

And Charon selling them is fine as well.

[frigid rain]

Challenge chests can give meta rewards

[stray radish]

you can also exchange spare meta resources for other meta resources

[frigid rain]

Yeah
I dunno
It feels like once I get all the meta rewards available, I'm just gonna ignore em, yknow?

[tired pivot]

My point is that challenge chests would be the main source of meta rewards.

It's not like ignoring them is always an option, especially in Tartarus.

[frigid rain]

I've always had no issue passing up challenge chests?
I usually only take em if I find myself in a comfortable enough spot to, health and power wise

[graceful bough]

Aren't you supposed to deal extra damage if you attack directly after you dash, or did they remove that?

[wary plume]

Why we cant avoid item's room ?

[graceful bough]

?

[wary plume]

skip a boon

etc

or we must heal in foutain's room, even you are full hp

[tired pivot]

Yeah, I guess you should be able to skip boons.

I don't see why you would want to except for maybe Poseidon.

[plush blaze]

check

#fan-works

you will regret it

[tired pivot]

@frigid rain I was referring to skipping meta reward chambers, not chests. Can't skip mera reward chambers if there's only one room option as is common in Tartarus. (meant Tartarus not Asphodel)

[frigid rain]

ooooh
Yeah true

I kinda wish Tartarus gave more options sometimes?
It feels like you're kinda stuck early on with a specific build depending on what boons tartarus decides to grant you

[graceful bough]

Why would you want to skip a room reward?

[frigid rain]

I think it's mostly the whole "stuck to this reward" aspect

[graceful bough]

Also, I like when there's only one exit.

[frigid rain]

Say I've unlocked everything that skeleton keys have to offer

[graceful bough]

More will be added.

[frigid rain]

Yeah, I can trade em, but I'd much rather swing into a boon room or a coin room

I have no doubt about that, but I don't think it's so much skipping a reward as it is having more choice in your reward

[drifting hemlock]

If that was the case your runs would be trivialized so fast

[graceful bough]

I like when you're not given a choice.

[drifting hemlock]

Skip it, sure, by all means let us ignore a reward and proceed, but it shouldnt reroll

[graceful bough]

That way if there's a resource you don't tend to use—like ambrosia, or heat—you gradually stock up on it anyway for when you're ready to use those features.

[frigid rain]

shrug
different opinions, I suppose

[stray radish]

i feel like rerolling a reward with keys once before entering next room or something could work?

[drifting hemlock]

If you could reroll any ambrosia, darkness and key rooms to boons or gold you'd be at an insane power level, much so that you'd obliterate the hydra before you're at meg

If the pool of rerolls is Keys, ambrosia and darkness sure

[stray radish]

skipping a boon would be great too

cause they're force you into a choice that you sometimes don't want to make

[graceful bough]

Rarely is there ever a bad boon though.

[stray radish]

like waiting for a boon from specific god for specific ability and bam, you get forced into picking into that slot even if you dont want to

[frigid rain]

I'm not saying to reroll a reward, I'm just saying having more options in Tartarus would be nice

[stray radish]

yeah, rarely a bad boon, but quite often a boon that doesnt fit your build

[frigid rain]

Heat is understandable as to why it would drop in Asphodel onwards more frequently, but sometimes I look at doors and think "neither of these really benefit me"

[stray radish]

or 'build', even your preferred playstyle

[drifting hemlock]

Having more options i.e. being secured boons or gold more often leads to the same result as i wrote before

[hard holly]

Depends, actually

With the heat option of reducing the number of boons you can get

Or even just with the situations where a god can only offer you one boon

There is a surprising number of times where you get offered a boon you absolutely dont want

[stray radish]

yup

that post-Meg room could have 'unlearn boon(s)' option

[hard holly]

Had a spear special run die on me because I was forced to get Ares' special upgrade boon

[graceful bough]

Isn't the point of roguelikes to have RNG dictate your builds?

[stray radish]

yeah, but also rng sucks xD

[hard holly]

There is a difference between getting a random build and having the possibility of getting an unworkable boon

[drifting hemlock]

Well thats the hard part of it, you shouldnt introduce a hard mechanic and then introduce a buff to make up for it

[hard holly]

At that point

[graceful bough]

Yeah, which is why I usually hate roguelikes.

[hard holly]

You might as well not get the boon

[graceful bough]

What's an unworkable boon?

[drifting hemlock]

All boons work but what is meant is a very weak boon for e.g. a heat run, say you get a vengeance boon and cant choose anything else

[graceful bough]

Then you have an underpowered run.

Which can be more fun.

[wary plume]

skip for speedrunning too

[graceful bough]

Most efficient isn't always most fun.

Speedrunning shouldn't get different rules. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of speedrunning?

[tired pivot]

Depends.

[hard holly]

A run that basically cant win isnt fun

[stray radish]

most underpowered runs dont feel great

[hard holly]

And thats what that run was

And keep in mind, Im fairly decent at the game, so when I say unwinnable, I mean it quite literally

[tired pivot]

Speed running yes, usually vanilla rules. Racing might draw on some mods.

I agree. Forcing players to take the offered boon choices isn't good game design. It doesn't add anything to the game other than making it possible to be forced into a bad build.

[frigid rain]

I can usually make it at least to Hydra, but some builds just become a drag to play

[stray radish]

skipping a reward sometimes would feel better than taking absolutely worst reward

as far as boons go

the onion must stay

xD

[tired pivot]

Especially since you can't stack boons on specific attacks.

[stray radish]

yup

[tired pivot]

If you could stack then forcing boons wouldn't be as bad, but I still wouldn't think it's a good choice.

[stray radish]

usually even when there's a lot of rng involved, you plan for some initial strategy

[tired pivot]

Has there been a feedback on that note?

[stray radish]

like with the keepsake and all

[tired pivot]

True.

Plus the keepsakes which force boons are going to be better when more areas are added.

Assuming you can keep switching between areas.

@woven girder I mean, whats wrong with taking a keepsake which gives an absolute buff? Unless you're referring to the limited case where you only have god keepsakes?

[woven girder]

@tired pivot yes. When I started a game my first keepsake was a god's one. Yes, it is a slim chance that you will have this kind of run, but it was frustrating to grind for an Ambrosia to get a different keepsake. But you might want do remove your keepsake to increase difficulty

[tired pivot]

Yeah. I thought of that.

[woven girder]

The most problematic part is when you encounter this wierd start, you are probably underpowered and need a lot of time to get a new Ambrosia, like I did

[tired pivot]

I agree that there should be an option. There's no downside to giving players more choices in this regard. Anymore than the previously discussed giving players the option to leave a chamber without taking a boon.

[woven girder]

yap

[frigid rain]

@woven girder Aphrodite's weakness boon does indeed make attacks weaker

from enemies

[woven girder]

Yeah, I tought it would be that. But mostly after reading some of the feedback chanel and this one. While playing the game I couldn't really tell if that were the case or not.

[pastel jolt]

it halves their damage, to be exact

[dreamy totem]

What to do with the Heat (skulls)?

is there a way to spend them?

[pastel jolt]

pact of punishment

[dreamy totem]

andddd how to go there

[hard holly]

Its in the bedchambers

[woven girder]

@pastel jolt I might be able to catch by watching damage indicators, but not realy in the heat of the gameplay.

[pastel jolt]

zagreus's room, after you've killed the hydra at least once, you unlock it with 10 keys and can make the game harder

[hard holly]

The dask in front of the mirror

[dreamy totem]

oh, the 10 keys one

oh okay, need to get more keys

[hard holly]

Aye

[dreamy totem]

thanks <3

back to grinding

[drifting hemlock]

Not really sure how you have to make so many guesses on what weak does... The game tells you....

[woven girder]

@drifting hemlock where or when does it says that the monsters damage is halfed or even that it will affect their damage?

[drifting hemlock]

Hover the boon and it's right on the screen

Just like artemis' boons telling you what a crit is

[woven girder]

@pastel jolt Wierd.. I know what ui element you are refering to but even with that I remember to be confused about it or more like dont remembering the whole description... Well then it's my fault not noticing but even with that it's impact on the actual gameplay feels weak to me (pun intended) I did not notice that it would make my life easier.

[drifting hemlock]

It only makes your life easier if you get hit, which is a thing you dont want to have happen

[wide stratus]

I think Weak’s pretty great as someone who super sucks at dodging
It helps me survive bullethell stuff

Tho to be fair i didnt realise it halved dmg until a few runs

[finite nova]

Weak+ +10% dmg is DAMN SON then u have crits

[woven girder]

That might be the case. Usually when I need to decide between bonuses I tend to follow the "do not plan on failure" mantra and try to learn dodging or parrying stuff

[finite nova]

As for me, spamming space with 3 dashes works almost every time, enemies are not that fast and you only need to get rid of armor and then smash smash smash

[woven girder]

And you get to Ashpodel and you find yourself in lava after the second dash 😄 well at leas I often do

[finite nova]

U have a second before u are starting to melt donw

down*

so dash))

[turbid needle]

Question: Is there a boon which lets the Dash (not Cast) Projectile, such as Ares' Blade Rift, to stay for a bit after dashing? If not, it could be neat with a boon that increases the active duration of the dash projectile effects of the deities by like .1, .3, .5, .7, .9 seconds and so on.

[worn fulcrum]

There is a boon which lets Blade Rifts last longer in general

[ionic field]

Man, the hitbox on those crushy guys seems way off

[turbid needle]

@worn fulcrum That appears to be the Cast, not the Dash.

[autumn tapir]

I just walked out of a "survive for 45 seconds" challenge right into a "don't get hit" challenge

guess hades doesn't want me to have fun today

[lost rose]

does hades ever want us to have fun

[grand patrol]

endless challenge room run ghjfjfvhnfvhjfj

[forest marsh]

Sounds challenging

[autumn tapir]

like
I was irritated enough but was alright with the first one
but then I enter the next room and hear DONGDONGDONG and I knew the run was over

[grand patrol]

idea: DONGDONGDONG alarm clock

a bad idea, but, you know.

[crystal edge]

Anyone have tips for dealing with the Hydra's fast missile attack? Haven't been able to beat him with anything other than the shield because I can't dodge the stupid things

[forest marsh]

Watch for the animation cue, then hide behind a pillar until all but the last 4 or 6 have launched, then you can dodge in towards the Hydra and get a few hits in safely. If the Hydra is invulnerable, you can do the same thing and just not attack after. It's important to move towards the end of the attack though, as the last few will wrap around the pillar

Generally avoid being in the middle of the arena, too

[woeful stirrup]

So, first time I play since the latest patch (the one that added the rewards for Pact), and is anyone else having lots of input lag since? A lot of the time, my dashes and attacks take a while to register, and since I tend to dash and attack, dash and attack, pretty often one of my actions will not happen at all.

[crystal edge]

@forest marsh I'll try that next time around! I'm having trouble finding that sweet spot behind the pillars though; every time I try I end up getting hit by a stray projectile or two

which adds up ahaha

[worn fulcrum]

@turbid needle I believe all the Blade Rift synergy boons effect the dash as well

[crystal edge]

(double dusaaaaa)

[forest marsh]

Yeah, it's important like I said to dodge out before the last few get to you, because they will still hit you behind the pillar with the way they wrap around

[worn fulcrum]

duodusa

[crystal edge]

eeeexactly. Gotta work on that timing.

[tired pivot]

No point using deflect against the hydra missiles?

[forest marsh]

You can, no reason not to

[crystal edge]

It's hard to do it quickly from my experience, but it works against the slower fire. Shield is EXCELLENT for that.

[forest marsh]

The slower shots you can also destroy pretty easily with your attack

[tired pivot]

Yeah, I had deflect on special with shield and it worked really well.

Except against Hydra, but it was also my first time against hydra.

[tidal roost]

Finally found a great boon to get on the Sword special

Divine flourish is fantastic on it.

That knockback coupled with a deflect. The Perfect perfect defensive move

[hard topaz]

another tip for the hydra i found is that you can actually hit the projectiles while they're in the hydra's 'mouth', so if you have the spear or bow (i guess you can do it with shield and sword, just a little riskier), you can hit most of the projectiles before they even come out

[lost rose]

:3c

this was kind of a crap run as far as boons were concerned but i poured them all into boosting my crits and i managed!!

[forest marsh]

Shame about the Clean Kill

[lost rose]

i knew i'd start doing better once i had my controller back ^^

[forest marsh]

Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure why you were buffing Clean Kill without a source of base crit?

[lost rose]

oh
oh lol

i was still thinking of.

the dash boon as critting

rip

I STILL WON THO

SO...

[forest marsh]

Hey, it just means you're that good that you don't need no stinkin' crit

You've got this... under control

😎

[lost rose]

in that case i'm even more impressed with myself
time to start working up to the 60 pain i guess

[forest marsh]

Gotta heat things up

[lost rose]

i don't even have that much heat. i'll have to grind it

[forest marsh]

You're ahead of me, I still haven't managed a 15 heat run

I spend too much time chatting and not enough playing 😛

[lost rose]

I was worried that I'd get used to KBM and not be able to play anymore once I got my controller back but nope! turns out I just love controller a lot after all, haha

the auto-aim is...troublesome, sometimes, and the mouse has attack direction down better but, y'know

[forest marsh]

I think controller will always feel more natural for me, but at the same time I think KBM offers the best control at high-level play

[lost rose]

movement is just so much easier with controller T^T

[severe jewel]

i love the back and forth of dashing and shooting with the bow (I use Dash to Cursor)

[forest marsh]

I've mostly gotten used to manipulating the auto-aim with additional joystick movements

That is, a deliberate tap towards the direction I want it to shoot

Or hit, whatever the case may be

It'll be interesting if they ever incorporate the twinstick control option that was suggested in feedback

[ionic field]

I tried controller for a few seconds before realising you still have 8 directional movement either way

[woeful stirrup]

@lost rose Wait, how do you have 8 clears but only 3 with blade and 3 with bow and nothing else?

[lost rose]

2 clears from before the game started counting weapons

I know one of those was bow

Don't remember the other but I'm willing to bet it was also bow

[tired pivot]

Is it still 8-directional movement on controller?

RIP

[forest marsh]

No, it's definitely not 8-directional

[ionic field]

Must be just my controller then?

[forest marsh]

I couldn't say, but I just checked with mine, and I have full range of motion. Compared to the very-much-8-directional movement of wasd to be sure.

[plush shell]

Some controllers are 8-directional, or have that as an option.

(Sometimes the default option)

[stoic sable]

so what are dash attacks now?

is there just a chance for bonus damage?

[plush shell]

It's a very tight window, but attacking during(?) a dash triggers a special attack.

[lost rose]

immediately after a dash

it's easier to pull off with mouse than controller, but if you hit to attack right after your dash ends, you do a dash attack

[frosty pier]

A question for MKB lads. Did you noticed that sometimes dash goes in a completly random direction, even though you pushed the opposite key?

[lost rose]

I assume you don't have "dash to cursor" turned on in the settings

[frosty pier]

Yes

[lost rose]

hmmm

I didn't notice anything like that while I was playing MKB...

[frosty pier]

It may be an omen of dying keyboard keys, but I dont think i managed to kill my wasd so fast >_>

[still pewter]

I haven't experienced any inconsistencies with the dash

[exotic hazel]

Does anyone have a decent build for a 120 heat run? No matter what I choose it just seems stupidly tedious and unfun

the way the darkness upgrades add up usually results in the same build no matter what

[still pewter]

I don't have experience, but I know the meta people use on high heat

idk if that'd help you

[exotic hazel]

better than nothing

60 heat run was a cake walk

its just the 120, its the last 20 heat that takes it from difficult to "guess ill die"

[still pewter]

it be like that

[sly chasm]

is it just me or the bow just got a massive buff
finally it's viable
the hunter dash got a massive nerf ;/

[still pewter]

bow was always good

[exotic hazel]

Not to mention the amount of sticky walls ive experience has taken me from "gosh thats a frustrating bug" to "seething rage"

So many good runs ended because Zag gets caught on a single pixel

[sly chasm]

idk but now found the bow is a great weapon now

the hunter dash used to be op

the bow got massive range increase and finally have punch through

[exotic hazel]

So far my process for 120 heat run seems to be Varatha for weapon, as its consistent enough at close and long range, and is fast enough to stunlock enemies, has crowd control, and while weak doesnt really matter since high heat is just a battle of attrition

then the heat process goes dumping everything into everything because thats what you need to get to 120, but leaving rank 2 tenebrous veil off so I can at least have a 50% chance of a good boon and also leaving heal reduction at 60% so I can sloooooowly recover from a mess up

[sly chasm]

varatha is the shield right?

[still pewter]

spear

[exotic hazel]

then darkness leaves me with at least 1 dash because using only the single dash makes avoiding certain attacks quite literally impossible, then from there none of the upgrades are effective enough to justify their darkness cost (ie, why the HECK would I spend one 10th of my limited darkness cap on 5 health?)

So it always makes the most sense no matter how I split it to put my remaining bits of darkness into backstab, bloodstones, and boiling blood

then in a cruel twist of fate, the only things left to afford are + hp on entering a door, despite being worthless due to health cap but whatevs

havent decided on a good trinket yet. Myrmidion bracer seems like a potential, charons trinket seems like it MIGHT be good if you can stabilize long enough to dump into wells but is still super dependent on luck to get enough wells to stack buffs up

Dusas duster is surprisingly decent, as it offers a much more reliable heal rate than anything else lol

For other weapons, I tried Aegis, but while its my fav weapon in general, it forces you to get too close to enemies too frequently

Stygian blade is just a joke

Coronacht is good, but makes the run even more tedious and starts to have issues with lots of spam in Asphodel

I just cant find a way to make the run at least somewhat bearable without turning it into a touch of death run

I wish it was only 100 heat so bad ;_;

or at least I wish there were more pact options so I didnt have to give the enemies so much damage

[still pewter]

sorry, had to make a call, I'm back

so I had a conversation the other day with a guy that does 150 heat

and he said he goes varatha with zeus trinket

on meg switches to cerb/skelly trinket

uuh, darkness on 3 dashes, little bit of backstab, I think +1 cast

hp is irrelevant

what else

[exotic hazel]

damn full three dashes

zeus trinket makes sense, spams out lightning chains

[still pewter]

yeah, he posted his hydra fight on #self-promotion

he had unreachable thrust+ zeus attack

I think zeus cast is good as well, but not really sure

again, I don't have experience on high heat, just trying to remember what he told me

yeah, I'd imagine sword and shield are a no go

he said he either takes ares or zeus at start but I'm not sure what he's looking for with ares

he also said bow was redundant on hydra, you don't need the range, varatha has enough of it

[exotic hazel]

ares is a good one because the curse is a massive dps boost to varatha and also lets you tag and run

[still pewter]

yeah, probably. should be similar to zeus, in the sense that it's flat dmg. zeus makes more sense for dps, ares for hit and run

idk dude, needs a lot of patience and probably you'll have to kill runs just because you don't get the proper hammer/boons

[pastel jolt]

zeus attack on spear is good because even at common rarity zeus attack is 30 damage iirc

spear only does 15 as base

[still pewter]

yeah, effectively +200% dps

stallord, do how many boon choices do you end up with?

[frosty pier]

zeus atttack is like 20 at common

[pastel jolt]

still

i gotta go again have fun

[exotic hazel]

I tried going with only 2 choices, but I think im gonna have to drop it to 1

just so I can take off 100% from the enemy damage

[still pewter]

that's rough, will lead to more run's youll have to effectively give up on

but the good ones will be more tolerable

probably a good choice in the long run

[sly chasm]

wish i can canceled my bow charging attatck with dash

[meager lotus]

Btw is it normal that the shield doesn't go into charging if I start holding left-click when it's not possible (dash, q is still happening, etc)?

[frosty pier]

yup

They made that charges start only after you attacked once

[still pewter]

it's normal xaphedo and it's annoying

I submitted some feedback on the matter, hopefully they make it better

[simple folio]

Does anyone here have any success with the bow? I am probably doing it wrong but it just does not do any damage and you have to play even safer from range. I just dont get it.

[lost rose]

Triple shot or the boon that doubles the arrows in your special attack, plus Artemis' hunter dash attack is pretty vicious by itself

add in backstab damage and/or boiling blood

boost attack power with other boons, since the dash attack boon doesn't take that slot

Get the timing for the power shot down, too

Dash attacks shorten the charging window for the power shot which can be really useful

Sources: i am a wimp who likes to beat my enemies from as far away as possible

[icy edge]

Poseidon bow is hilarious in tartarus but very hard to use in asphodel

[lost rose]

It's hard to use against floating enemies but pretty good against bloodless

They melt super fast in the lava

[simple folio]

thanks, it is probably just harder to play than the other weapons

with the others you can really just go and mash keys for profit

[hard holly]

Bow is hilariously busted

Easily the best weapon

My tip would be to get the powershot timing down, and do dash attacks as much as you can

[still pewter]

nanana

spear

is where it's at

(but yeah, uno's advice is good)

[hard holly]

Dash attacks reduce the powershot timing to .4 seconds I believe

So you can get more powershots while still having the safety of a dash

Oh and as for hammer upgrades, Triple shot is busted, outside of that, sniper and perfect are good

Pointblank is ok

[pastel jolt]

honestly i prefer pointblank over sniper

but i enjoy being up in people’s faces with the bow for some reason

i feel like you get more use out of pointblank over sniper on the hydra fight especially

[wary parrot]

^ same m8

[simple folio]

the problem with the bow for me is getting swarmed in some rooms

with other weapons you can just power through that

[winged quartz]

what pacts should I use for the easiest 60 heat run?

[hard holly]

The thing is

That pointblank shots distance calculation is wack

So you have to be right in their face for the max damage

Whereas with sniper shot you have more leeway

Plus I think sniper shot has a higher % now?

Also, Distant Memory

Cant use that with pointblank

[still pewter]

is distant memory multiplicative?

[hard holly]

Ill be honest

I have no clue

I just like it

[still pewter]

I've never used it tbh

[hard holly]

I started using it when skull earring was nerfed

Its really good tbh

[still pewter]

hmm. does it work on boon dmg? like ares and zeus?

[hard holly]

Again, no idea

I never paid enough attention to the damage numbers

Also I never used either of Zeus or Ares, soo

[still pewter]

maybe I should test it

could be kinda nice with spear/shield special. still it'll be kinda junky tho

[hard holly]

Well yeah, youre using shield special

Spear special you want Athena anyway

[pastel jolt]

i can try and check that distsnt memory thing once i'm on my pc if you want

[still pewter]

that'd be cool, but we don't mean to occupy you ^^

[simple folio]

Is there any logic to when Meg gets invulnerable?

I dont really understand why it happens

[meager lotus]

No clue

Also why does counter-charging Meg with the shield block her only half of the time?

[wide stratus]

i think meg gets invulnerable whenever she gets past a certain health threshold, doesn't she?

or when she's movin to the center to summon stuff

[pastel jolt]

yeah

[hard holly]

25% intervals

So when she hits 75%, 50% and 25% health, she goes invulnerable

Until she can finish her spinny wings animation

Which might require her to finish her attack first

[simple folio]

during my last game she ran around invulnerable for like 5 seconds

it was pretty strange

[hard holly]

That might be if she started her "move to the center to do the minionspawning" attack

In which case she doesnt do the spinny thing until thats over

[analog crystal]

Its the same with attacks sometimes if she reaches threshhold as shes starting it i think

[plush shell]

Sometimes she gets fixated on doing a melee attack too

[pastel jolt]

@still pewter @hard holly looks like distant memory's bonus is additive

[hard holly]

Aw

[somber epoch]

additive and not multiplicative?

additive is better

[pastel jolt]

UnitProperty = "DistanceDamageMultiplier",
BaseValue = 1.10,
SourceIsMultiplier = true,
ChangeType = "Add",

[somber epoch]

that seems... good?

[pastel jolt]

the shattered shackle from sisyphus, just fyi, appears to be multiplicative

god that word is hard to spell

[somber epoch]

that's a little weird, tbqh

because i dont think anything right now increases that specific damage besides the shackle, no?

[pastel jolt]

nah

[somber epoch]

additive/multiplicative really only matters when you are dealing with multiple modifiers

[hard holly]

What does the shackle do again?

[somber epoch]

more damage from rubble

[hard holly]

Oh

[errant narwhal]

500% more damage

[hard holly]

Im guessing that skull earring is also additive, yes?

[somber epoch]

i could see skull earring being multi

[pastel jolt]

yup

[somber epoch]

oh, it is additive

then yeah that chunks

hm, do you smart mods think you can come up with the highest % increase to damage you can get in a run?

[pastel jolt]

haha no probably not

[hard holly]

I think that should be fairly easy

Actually no

You can get any number of poms

[pastel jolt]

i'm not actually smart

[somber epoch]

i don't believe you, sparrow

[hard holly]

Plus there is the question of how many rooms even contain any upgrades

Best one could do is a guesstimate where everything but the second room in the run contains an upgrade or a pom

[still pewter]

interesting sparrow, thanks!

[errant narwhal]

im good at pointing people to the faq, not at math

sorry 🤷

[somber epoch]

do you think you could see the numbers for say, the pos boon where you get resources sunken treasure

[pastel jolt]

sure

gimme a minute to work out what this all says

[still pewter]

that shouldn't be too too hard. I aint doin it, but we can't be too sure at the same time, since there are stuff behind the scenes making room drops not completely random

[somber epoch]

it might be interesting to see if you could "rig" a run

[still pewter]

in what sense

[somber epoch]

figure out how room chamber rewards are generated and then exploit the rng behind it

if possible, that is

[still pewter]

hmm. we could dot down some easily discernable rules. and maybe if we collected stats over a significant sample size we could get a good idea

I don't really know if we have any agency atm over what rooms we get

[somber epoch]

I don't think we do intentionally

though I wouldn't be surprised if room rewards are generated on the fly as opposed to being static

[pastel jolt]

alright, so, sunken treasure

[somber epoch]

because it might be neat if you took an intentional amount of damage in a room and it would weight a next possible reward being a centaur heart

[pastel jolt]

you have a 10% chance to get ambrosia out of it

money: minimum 50, max 70
healing items: min 2, max 3
darkness: either 1 or 2, worth 10 darkness each

i think

[somber epoch]

what if you could manipulate rng so that orpheus always sings

[still pewter]

unlikely

[somber epoch]

there might be just a X run counter, i guess

[somber epoch]

it will be interesting when people start modding Hades

[opaque lagoon]

Does anyone know how many decorative items hades has? besides the weapons, achiles wall scroll and aprodite?

You obviously have to buy it... you're on supergiant discord and ask about pirateing?

[drifting hemlock]

@opaque lagoon if you mean in-game purchaseable decorations then theres only the three for now, the achilles, aphro and the bowl

[severe sinew]

And the gear above Zags bed

[drifting hemlock]

oh right, for some reason i thought the weapons was the achilles thing 😄

[severe sinew]

Yeah they dont really stick out much, maybe because there is weapons in the next room, so by pure assumptions, you would think he also had some in his room!

[drifting hemlock]

Yeah, I hope there will be Achievements in this game shown in a trophy room, so it isn't like any other game where you open up a menu to see your achievements but in this game it would be represented by actual in-game models and decorations, i think that could be cool

[severe sinew]

Well they already did it with the rewards for Pact of Punishment, so maybe they would expand on that idea aswell

[drifting hemlock]

Really hoping they do! 😄

[severe sinew]

Me too!

[drifting hemlock]

As many have mentioned as a challenge, the "new save" challenge where you beat the game on a new save, the pact of punishment should just have a tick box that makes your next run a complete vanilla run

no keepsakes, no nothing

[severe sinew]

Or maybe just in general, not limited to only new save file

[frigid rain]

give Zag a GUN

[severe sinew]

Give Zag ... a HUG!

[frigid rain]

But dusa has no arms

[novel kiln]

and

[frigid rain]

You right

[severe sinew]

Uhm snake hug?
best hug!

[grand patrol]

snug...

[severe sinew]

😏 🐍