Also oof, that Chaos boon at hydra
#h1-builds-and-combat
abstract glen
Is it me, or am I getting Boons less often now
hard holly
Ive had more this patch
carmine zinc
Chaos boons are bonus, I didn't noticed any room skip when I enter blood gates
hard holly
So might just be you
abstract glen
kay
hard holly
Or just a bad luck streak
Anyway, Ares boons on attack and special are pretty much always the wrong pick
The only time theyre good is if youre using a bad move you should never be using
nimble imp
I mean... there's no wrong pick. Just pick what you feel comfortable with.
hard holly
However, Urge to Kill is really good
Nah, wrong pick as in "you are losing damage and gaining nothing"
nimble imp
I had no issue taking down Hydra using those boons
hard holly
Well the Hydra is easy nowadays if you dont go heavy into pact
carmine zinc
The bow builds are above all else for me
pastel jolt
unfortunate typo
hard holly
Oh
nimble imp
I'm going to attempt to do runs using all the weapons. Some I just don't mesh as well as others
pastel jolt
triple........ 💩
pastel jolt
Especially if you get lucky and get an epic athena boon, triple shot, and some good synergies
abstract glen
?
pastel jolt
there you go
hard holly
Thanks
Thats what I was going to write
Ill probably balance out the numbers again
I think Im at 4/4/4/5 now
abstract glen
I hope an Axe weapons comes out
nimble imp
I was excited hoping for a new weapon but am happy with what we got
abstract glen
what about some guantlets
drifting hemlock
Sadly gotta go now but i maxed everything on the scroll and got the dream start of Ares special epic boon with shield
jade estuary
What's the best boon to start with for each weapon (bow is what I'm going for now)
I mean keepsake
woeful stirrup
@orchid rapids I'd say I agree with you on the topic of locked chests, especially since I've seen those chests have darkness rewards, and if you have enough keys that you don't care about using them on chests, you're probably not in need of darkness as much as a new player, who has trouble getting to the end of the game and thus gets much less darkness in a run than someone who beats the Hydra everytile.
weak frost
Is there any way to turn off auto aim
woeful stirrup
Yes, in the settings.
weak frost
I didn't see it
hard holly
Athena Keepsake or Poseidon keepsake, usually
With spear if you try to go for the regular attack spam (rather than spin or special), or with sword if you hope to be lucky and get blade flurry, Zeus is also good
If you struggle at the start, Cerberus and possibly Nyx can be good to keep you more healthy
And if you just want random fun, Distant memory for ranged weapons and Chaos keepsake are viable
woeful stirrup
Skull earring is also fun, no matter if you're bad (which means you'll get its effect often) or good (which means you can have fun getting hit on purpose to have low health for a challenge, but have it activate so it's not too much of a challenge).
worldly sage
Why is the hydra so hard
dusky drum
the update makes it both easier and harder
worldly sage
how so
dusky drum
you used to have much less romm and the pillers were walls instead
i say if your struggling, get used to managing under pressure and in a small space
you also need to prioritize spawners and bashers in my experience
worldly sage
bashers?
arctic venture
holy CRAP the fully upgraded collar is incredible
dusky drum
collar?
arctic venture
the old spiked collar
arctic venture
I thought it would be around the same bonus as pre-patch, but I think it goes up to +60 hp if the scaling is even
dusky drum
geeez
arctic venture
rank one is now +20 and two is +40
weirdly I think the skull earring went from +120% damage to +123% to +140%? so idk what to expect
arctic venture
yeah me too!
dusky drum
and in bastion you were forced to using weapons for a level and see if you like it
arctic venture
having such a direct and satisfying progression system for keepsakes makes me wish there was something like it for weapons maybe
dusky drum
like a weapon upgrade system like bastion
arctic venture
the dark thirst boon counts I guess but it's not as direct
dusky drum
but some small actual permeant upgrades to the weapons would be nice
with dark thirst i hate it when i want to use a weapon but i need to fill mirror and it circulates 2 weapons
plucky oxide
@hybrid kestrel related to your feedback, there's a visual indicator on your actual healthbar when you take damage. There's a bit of 'chip health' that's greyed out, slowly reducing down to 0 over time. If you deal damage during that time, it will refill that chip health. There indeed, should probably be some Skully dialogue about it.
sand breach
first time playing new update.
chaos.. good
having 8 cast that do 300 damage each? good....
analog crystal
I just had a run where my unupgraded base red cast did 280 damage
(60% of the time after dashing lol)
sand breach
Should’ve taken a pic of that run
epic chaos boon for +3 cast and epic fully loaded for another 2
with level 5 epic true strike...
analog crystal
The epic chaos boons for casts are insnae
sand breach
yeah chaos egg good keepsake huh
analog crystal
I had one where I had +3 casts and +89% damage
analog crystal
Blessed chaos egg, turns blood gates into +6 heal and chaos boon
sand breach
I love seeing bosses struggle with their
phase change invulnerability
13 minute run! Best so far for me
lost rose
primordial originator "may i offer you an egg in this trying time" chaos
analog crystal
DANNY DEVITO IS CHAOS
Confirmed?!
I wonder what the most casts anyone's got in the game is
drifting hemlock
my top is 11
analog crystal
Did you also have the boon that makes it drop in like 2s at epic
sand breach
multicast is great even now that it’s just +25% damage
hybrid kestrel
oh thanks @plucky oxide, i didn't even know that healt was acting that way when taken damage. didn't notice it in all the hectic combat =D
plucky oxide
Yeah, definitely needs an in-game explanation.
analog crystal
@sand breach I had an insane run where the main cast would take all their armour off and teh burst cast 1 shotted all of their health
sand breach
YEAH today I learn that armor protects them against ohko moves
analog crystal
It's recent and annoying
green musk
use aphrodite cast
sand breach
so do the +x% rare/epic mirror affect chaos booms too
plucky oxide
Aphrodite cast is now my favorite, since this update.
analog crystal
Which is very nice
analog crystal
Trenbrous veil on the pact honestly looks like so much fun idek why
plucky oxide
Aphrodite is changed due to the nature of armor. Since armor now eats all damage upon breaking, you'll have to deliver at least two chunks of damage. This really hampers world splitter, and other large valued damage values, but inversely buffs continuous/fast damage, like Aphrodite and Ares cast.
This is even further valued by the Heat modifier that gives them additional 'armored' sections, making Ares/Aphro incredibly useful.
It's also why I take poms on the additional projectiles on Artemis' cast over poms increasing the damage the cast does by itself.
green musk
Ares cast is bad now tho
doesn't stick, less casts to work with
without upgrades it's quite bad
All other casts have higher dps.
easier to land too
the only thing ares has going for him is large-scale AOE
and area denial
plucky oxide
Ares cast, on its own, without upgrades, chews through the Purple armor from heat fastest. It gives a lot of value to weapon/special runs in that sense. I agree that it does need more.
plucky oxide
Just explaining why favoring continual/multi-hit damage over larger single values could see more use in game!
green musk
I dislike mechanics that inflate enemy health anyways. it feels like artificially adding challenge, and lenghtening obnoxious rooms
like comon, numbskill from skull-o-mats taking upwards to 5 hits to kill with any weapon / combos?
das just stupid
woeful stirrup
Tried to do a Spear special build. Dang Impact Blast is actually pretty awful. Makes it way harder to get backstab.
green musk
Spear needs cruel skewer to work
for special
if I'm to increase the difficulty, I prefer just making enemies hit harder
to force no-hit runs
woeful stirrup
I feel like Javelin throw could work too. Same with armor smasher.
It's just that Impact Blast has only one use: deal with several enemies at the same time... which is not needed a lot, since it's better to kill one than to wound 4.
plucky oxide
I like that the heats seem to give value/incentive to mix up play styles, though I mostly just play with max increased mob size.
I take armor bonus on spear special a lot. Feel like it's even more important with this new patch. I never expected to one shot with it in previous versions, and now that I implicitly can't on armored enemies, it feels like it's fulfilling its role very nicely
pearl willow
Was difficult to tell with the number of... numbers and enemies but I swear I was still getting backstabs with spear spin just now. I did have Artemish Dash though so maybe I underestimate whatever the new crit damage multi is - but I thought I saw the text as well a few times.
green musk
max mob size brings tedious rooms where 3 numbskulls spawn repeatedly till you kill 40 of em
unlike the chaos boon, which makes it so 5 spawn instead of three
plucky oxide
It changes the amount spawned at once! It does not seem to simply lengthen the duration, as far as I can tell.
worn dawn
Oh okay, now I see why the bomb on kill boon from chaos is bad with survival rooms
Ow my face
rain axle
oh wait till you get that -50% move speed from chaos then get 2 survival rooms in a row
worn dawn
I won and then the entire room exploded ;_; There was nowhere to go except BOMBS
drifting hemlock
makes for a too easy game imo
drifting hemlock
had 3-4 2k dmg runs so far and my 19 win streak was a breeze all of them
in total only one death defy lost
gilded knot
can't scroll down the codex monster page with a controller? I can scroll between each entry and the next, but not up and down the page, unless I use the mouse. Does anyone else have this issue?
drifting hemlock
imo the player was buffed too much
hard holly
Moreso enemies were nerfed too much
And opt-in difficulty isnt all that great without incentive
rain axle
so when I went -50% move speed I got survivor room, gorgon boss, survivor room.........
drifting hemlock
You got three dashes, what do you need movement for
even moreso with a 2k cast build
rain axle
because you will still get hit by those dive bombing pillars when there are 7 of them chasing you
drifting hemlock
bait them and you wont
rain axle
and you cannot just dodge everything the gorgon throws at you either
drifting hemlock
yes you can
rain axle
dash alone isn't enough to dodge it all
woeful stirrup
dusky drum
wow
woeful stirrup
Accidentally made a cast build again 
dusky drum
+5 cast
woeful stirrup
Yeah, got +3 and +2.
rugged dust
Do you guys know how much enemy damage can increase per level of heat,?
dusky drum
100%
woeful stirrup
The +3 was just "don't gain gold for 3 encounters"
drifting hemlock
isnt it 500?
dusky drum
is it
woeful stirrup
And the +2 was "have 30 health for 3 encounters"
drifting hemlock
500 for dmg, 100 for health
dusky drum
i thought it was double
dusky drum
geez
woeful stirrup
It's a shame Athena cast is buggy in Asphodel though. A lot of the time it just bumps into the enemies as if they were obstacles, dealing no damage.
hard holly
You can increase enemy damage by 500%, yes
So almost everything oneshots you
Its fun tho
Finally managed a run with that on max today
drifting hemlock
I already made a video and gave to Mr Morgan from super giant @woeful stirrup
simple hemlock
Something I've noticed. I'm having more success with builds that in theory are sub par, and builds where I think would be good, are underperforming. Am I just wrong about what I think is sub par, or am I just playing safer and therefore better, thinking that my build is sub par.
rugged dust
@hard holly I asked "per level "
hard holly
Oh its in 10% increments
woeful stirrup
Yeah, saw that Lizzy. But I really wanted to make a cast build. Thought it wouldn't be that bad and, well, it wasn't, but it definitely could have prevented some hits if it worked correctly.
hard holly
For a total of 50 increments
vestal fjord
...has it always been possible to do a quick double hit after a dash with the shield?
hard holly
Yes
rugged dust
Thanks
simple hemlock
Well... I had bow with epic crit from the bow god, and I didn't even survive meg.
vestal fjord
Mkay, losing quick temper's really thrown me off, especially with bow timing.
hard holly
On attack?
simple hemlock
Yep
hard holly
That one is not great
simple hemlock
Oh
hard holly
Athena and Poseidon are generally better
rain axle
@simple hemlock The name of the game is survival. Prepatch people were pushing 1 shot builds. Those do not work anymore because of how they changed armor and shifted around the hp and damage. So now safe full survival builds are probably just better.
hard holly
Mainly because you need to get lucky, but also because its damage values arent very high
rain axle
Yo poseidon got a HUGE buff. His knock back now sends them flying across the map.
simple hemlock
I just had my first successful spear run. I had 500% armour break, but not much else good tbh. I thought the build was sub par.
hard holly
I dont remember what value its at
Spear special is actually good baseline
And if you get a good special upgrade, youre set
rain axle
hate spear specia
hard holly
500% armour break just means armoured enemies are a cakewalk
simple hemlock
I got no good upgrades besides the 500% armoured break daedelus
woeful stirrup
My cast build completely wrecked Meg and the Hydra, though. I had 8 casts that dealt 200 damage or so each when facing Meg, so I took a lot of her health before she even attacked. And with the Hydra, I did a few crits. It did its second phase at 25% health, and its third after one attack once the second was over.
hard holly
No Divine Flourish?
rain axle
the increased armor and lowered base hp so breaking armor is really good now
hard holly
Athenas special upgrade
But yeah, spear special is just one of the best options in general
rain axle
not sure about that spear special has a lot of rooting you in place
hard holly
Only very briefly, and less so than Bow#
vestal fjord
Spear is the only weapon I haven't been able to beat the Hydra with.
It's just so bad on bosses.
simple hemlock
I've not played much with spear, but I'm beginning to think spear might be worse than sword now 😛 at least sword attack combos and knocks them back into wall usually... and it also usually crits on the last hit.
rain axle
I was having issues with hydra till I discovered you can just hit the projectiles like anything else
then it was a cake walk
rain axle
yeah spear is best
rain axle
hate bow
woeful stirrup
You couldn't hit the projectiles before last update.
hard holly
Sword is second-weakest
rain axle
no
simple hemlock
When the hydra is about to launch like 15 of the arrows, its best if you're in his face... If you're upclose you can destroy all of the arrows he shoots before he even fires them
rain axle
hydra projectiles you could not attack to break them
woeful stirrup
I realized you now could halfway through my first fight with it after the update. Made the second half of the fight way easier
First half I was all "they took away my walls, they took away my walls 
"
rain axle
the cheese way of beating him is with shield and zeus retaliation just charge attack and let them hit the shield it triggers the retaliation on every arrow
woeful stirrup
Bow, spear, shield, sword for me.
vestal fjord
For me, Shield>Bow>Sword=Spear
rain axle
Spear, sword, shield, bow for me
hard holly
Bow, spear, sword, shield for me
Shield is slightly behind sword on account of having the worst special of all weapons
simple hemlock
Wow, pretty varied answer 😛
rain axle
once you learn how to use charge attack with shield it gets crazy good
vestal fjord
Honestly, Sword is the only special I ever think about using
woeful stirrup
Shield does not have the worst special. It's a lot of !!FUN!!
simple hemlock
I don't think I ever think to use charge on spear
rain axle
sword is by far worst special
hard holly
I dont find "press button and do miniscule damage to enemies without having to aim" fun
Nah
Swords special is decent
Good in Tartarus, still has decent utility in Asphodel
simple hemlock
Elaborate unoven, special on sword is abysmal
?
Maybe I don't know how to use it
But so far its gotten me killed more than helped
rain axle
animation is too long doesn't do more damage than the 3 hit combo.......not a good deal
hard holly
In Tartarus you can oneshot groups of numbskulls
simple hemlock
It's literally only useful for unshielded skulls and not really anything else
Sometimes not then
hard holly
Otherwise, its got good knockback so you can make some space if you need, and if you get Athena it also is a perfect deflect all-around
rain axle
so because it is good vs the weakest monster in the game = decent?
hard holly
Plus if you actually invest in it, its a room-killer
I dont recommend it because its fairly boring, but it aint bad
simple hemlock
It's definitely the worst special though
rain axle
I've had the 200% damage with modifiers and crit and I still was using my cast and attack over it
simple hemlock
Can it backstab?
rain axle
lol no way guy
hard holly
Sword has usage and can even be good for roomclearing
Shield has none
Its just really, really bad
rain axle
shield special deflects all attacks on your frontal cone while you charge and attack + gets attack damage % modifiers
primal folio
uhh
hard holly
Thats the charge
primal folio
that's alt fire
hard holly
Not the special
primal folio
special is the throw
rain axle
yeah special isn't good
primal folio
but they did adjust that in the latest patch
rain axle
but that is after 3 rounds of nerfs so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
primal folio
it comes back faster now which was the biggest problem
simple hemlock
Special can kill a few numskulls, without animation locking you, or risking getting within range.
hard holly
Eh, special was never good on shield
Why they nerfed it in the first place is beyond me
rain axle
um.....what? dude the damage for nerfed 2 times and natural deflection removed
hard holly
Shield special can kill 2 numbskulls in 2 throws
Thats abysmal
The damage was only nerfed once, and it was bad before the nerf as well
The deflection was more of a general shield nerf
hard holly
Nope, it was only nerfed once where it was 20 damage prior to the nerf
simple hemlock
Even if its 2 throws, you don't get movement locked unlike sword special. If I special a numskull and those big ones that rush you sees me, I'm screwed until I'm not locked aain
rain axle
the attack and special did the same damage it was 30
hard holly
You do get locked for a second though
plucky oxide
Most fun I've ever had was on shield. Most damage I've ever had was on bow. Easiest time I ever had was on sword special (played one handed). Cheapest win I ever had was on spear.
hard holly
Well not a second
A brief moment
And the problem is, its 2 slow throws
At that point youd rather just attack them
With sword you can at least save time
simple hemlock
Same with sword special, you'd rathr atack them
Why would you special when you can just attack
rain axle
exactly
hard holly
Because its faster?
simple hemlock
Both specials are bad, but shield special doesn't root you for like 1.5 seconds after the knockback is done
rain axle
if shield special is same damage as attack why would I attack with it but it got nerfed and was super buggy last patch
rain axle
honestly all the specials are bad
hard holly
First of all, because attacking is way better
simple hemlock
Best special is bow, by far
hard holly
Second of all, shield special was only as much damage as the attack after the nerf to attack and before the nerf to it
Not even remotely
rain axle
only if you have the right buffs will I use bow special
hard holly
In order of special usefulness its Spear >>>>>> Sword > Bow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shield
finite grail
there's a zeus option that procs lighting on special and that's REALLY good with bow
melt people
plucky oxide
Did you know that Artemis legendary procs on specials? I learned that last patch and reported it in my confusion. Wonder if it's still in.
simple hemlock
Bow special is basically a shotgun, especially if you get 100% extra arrows. It nukes a lot of enemies if you dash in.
rain axle
no matter the weapon choice casting got a huge buff with this patch
simple hemlock
Whats athena legendary?
plucky oxide
I love all the specials. They've got their different flavors. It's fun trying to make each one work.
Artemis legendary spawns a minor projectile with homing on 'attack or cast'
simple hemlock
I thought that was artemis
plucky oxide
Oh! Sorry!!
finite grail
I've had difficulty working with the sword special because of its recovery time but that might just be me
simple hemlock
I could be wrong
plucky oxide
You are correct I was being silly. Thank you!!
Sword special definitely has a harder time with the new armor change.
simple hemlock
Chaos legendary is best. It spawns dusa in and she nukes the room and then goes back to cleaning
hard holly
Oh yeah, I checked back
plucky oxide
But back in it's glory days I could one shot most things with sword special. Animation lag is long at the end, but it's ability to break most animations and immediately have you deal that AOE is a nice finisher and get out of jail card.
hard holly
On release, base damage of shield was 25, special was 20
Which it was until it got nerfed to 15
It was always really bad
To the point where it took me forever to find it, because the only guy who played on the original patch that I could find never actually used it
plucky oxide
Played shield on the new patch and I got the faster charge. It was crazy frenetic, and I had a lot of fun. Most of the time I play shield special. I need that 'hit once and return to you immediately'. Nice to have a reliable ranged tool, but building it for damage % stacking is suffering. For how nice shield special is in terms of game feel and sound, I wish it packed the same level of punch as other specials.
hard holly
I mean, I think it feels boring, but yeah
It needs to be way stronger
The sudden rush charge is hilarious though
plucky oxide
It's crazy. Probably the most mechanically intensive attack out there, in terms of options and rate of attacks.
It's like a pinball, so fast and kinetic. Feels really good to slam around the place.
Just wish shield special had that same punch. Storing blocked damage in it would be super awesome.
bold grotto
Why did they make the Hydra so easy now though, it was a good fight before and now its easier than megara
plucky oxide
Being able to destroy those projectiles is insanely powerful.
That's the majority (at least in my case) of hydra's damage, gone
bold grotto
I think undestroyable proj was annoying but necessary before
But now they should make the heads do something interesting / high damage in return probably
tender zephyr
One of the factors is that the screen got so crowded that you lost sight of Zag, but with the walls gone, there's more eye room.
bold grotto
Yea I remember the first few fights felt really unfair pre patch to me
Felt like I lost track of him all the time and just took damage
simple hemlock
I think as its a hydra, the projectiles could be small enemies that slow you down. So that its more annoying to evade the hydra, the adds and the other hydra heads.
They don't damage you
But they make it harder for you
Like it fires out snakes or something
celest dagger
just got to hydra and was going to mention
hard holly
While I do agree that Hydra was overnerfed, if you crave a challenge
Go for pacts
500% extra damage on enemies is exciting
celest dagger
my first time going to hydra but I got it to about 60%ish health?
and I was shocked that it felt easier than meg
uhm as for the projectiles hitting it with the spear/dashing away makes it easier
simple hemlock
I disagree, meg is by far easier than hydra
hard holly
Eh, I dont think Hydra is easier than Meg
I can reliably get through Meg without a single hit
hard holly
Against Hydra that has been difficult
plucky oxide
I just think that these destroyable projectiles shouldn't spawn directly on the enemy you're attacking already. If they were elsewhere, it makes the fight a bit more dynamic.
celest dagger
meg gives me so much trouble aiya
hard holly
Well, she has 4 attacks
Only one of them can even hit you
Her bullet hell attack
And for that one you just dodge away
plush blaze
Had an insane aphrodite cast run with the sword, 14:16
I had 9 casts from chaos boons
hard holly
Other 3 Meg attacks are just insanely easy to avoid
celest dagger
I think for me it's the fact that when she spawns a ton of enemies all around her
plush blaze
And was 2-3 shotting hydra heads and 3 shotting hydra phases
hard holly
And unless you ramped up your damage to max
celest dagger
I can't keep track of her when she's crowded by all the big grunts
hard holly
Even if you get hit by bullet hell, it wont do much
simple hemlock
Meg is easy...
She spins and fires out easy to avoid bullets in all directions.
She will spin, which is easy to avoid. Straight after her spin she will always dash at you.
She had those circles which you can use an audio cue to know when to dash
hard holly
Draw her away
celest dagger
and I'm like @ . @
night pasture
hi hades discord you're looking well how about that chaos update huh
celest dagger
CHAOS UPDATE FIRE
simple hemlock
Also, if you get a reflect attack, megs becomes even easier. Her dash can be reflected at her.
celest dagger
and by that I mean chaos as a character
night pasture
so those keepsake ranks, do they actually do anything mechanically? or is it just a stat tracking thing?
plucky oxide
If I could interrupt all of Meg's damage output by continuously wailing on her with my attack, I would. But I can't. Currently, main head hydra phases don't have much in terms of kiting or strategy.
celest dagger
it's a whole mood
simple hemlock
@night pasture The keepsakes improve with rank
celest dagger
tbh in the beginning phase of hydra I just tried to like... stand to the back and throw my spear LOL
am a coward
didn't wanna go in
night pasture
I just did my first run since the update and got the hydra right off the bat, which I know is a given for a lot of people here, but was impressive for me
I think they eased up the encounter a lot, I don't remember being able to break its projectiles
plucky oxide
The projectiles should spawn where the head isn't, if they're going to be destroyable. Not about to make this feedback though, because I have no idea how the majority feel about hydra. The quality of life for the player has gone way up for the player, that we can all agree on.
turbid needle
Do health items have a chance of popping out of vases without wearing Dusa's gift, or just money?
drifting hemlock
the QoL for me has gone waaaay down
plucky oxide
For the hydra fight, specifically?
drifting hemlock
Everything, its too easy
plucky oxide
That's what I'm implying
turbid needle
What does that have to do with QoL
plucky oxide
The hydra fight is accessible. Casts are accessible. Reagents are more accessible than ever. Meg has less health. Difficulty spikes have been offered, but are a choice by the player.
turbid needle
Nothing wrong with a game getting more accessible
drifting hemlock
Without incentive might i add
It was already balanced if not unbalanced in the players favor before
turbid needle
I'm better at games than everybody I play with and I struggled with Hydra pre- and post-patch
drifting hemlock
what we got now is a buff on all fronts for us, but only negatives for the enemies
turbid needle
put difficulty options in 🤷
drifting hemlock
Theres no incentive to do so, thats what im saying
plucky oxide
I like the 'no incentive' thing. Makes it feel less like a challenge and more like exploration of different styles of play.
turbid needle
Anybody have an answer to my vase question?
drifting hemlock
Sorry what was the question
oh
no
no health items without keepsake
besides the two vases in the hydra room ofc
turbid needle
ty
drifting hemlock
Np!
plucky oxide
Just money, yeah. From my experience, at least.
drifting hemlock
Also i kinda wish the scroll had its own "completed in a row" thing... feels bad to have to lose my 19 wins
plucky oxide
I believe it does have a streak counter, does it not?
It kept my streak, surprising me.
plucky oxide
Wait, what do you mean by scroll?
turbid needle
does the upgrade where you do 10% more damage to a foe when your cast is in them stack if you put two-three casts in them?
plush blaze
So glad they added the timer / stats at the end
Just got an 11:53 on the shield with a cast build
Since casts are nutty right now
plucky oxide
The pacts? It doesn't count heat on streaks. Check my feedback!
Casts are so nutty it's so much fun! Get it while ya can!
drifting hemlock
I dont believe they stack no
plush blaze
Cast damage stacks with the extra damage from an enemy having a cast in them, but multiple casts don't increase the multiplier
turbid needle
Are the Hades challenge rooms supposed to occur one after the other (like is it built that way) or is it random? JW cause since the patch I've had the "avoid getting hit" and then "survive for 45 sec" one after the other literally every run (~10 runs)
dreamy jackal
@orchid rapids Regarding your suggestions of the key, I agree with everything you typed except your solution. It’s a very bad idea. The key is used to unlock new item and ability. Having them lost on death renders it impossible to use for its current purpose.
orchid rapids
@dreamy jackal I agree that this would drastically change its current use case. It's also important to note the distinction between "progression resources" and "run resources". That is, resources that remain and affect the progression through parts of the game outside of individual runs vs resources that are found and used only in the individual run. Right now we have darkness, ambrosia, heat, and keys. For in game resources we essentially have obols, health, and boons. I feel like that while this makes progression feel rewarding, it leaves the individual runs with somewhat missed potential. Changing the keys into a run resource would create a compelling tool to be used in all sorts of interesting ways and could introduce a lot more variety and player choice to runs. An alternative would fall in line with my other suggestions of focusing on obols and boons as the only individual run resources but giving them a lot more variety with purchasable items and useful acquireable boons.
To be honest both of them together might be even better. The beauty of roguelike games is the vast world of possibilities presented by the procedurally generated levels.
turbid needle
even post patch i can only beat meg about 25% of the time 😦
Also how does Avenging Gain work? I haveit at +60% and I've never once seen my health go up after hitting a dude after getting hit
dreamy jackal
After you get hit your health bar will go down, but also leaves a shard area. Those area represented what you can get back by attacking. Just do some damage before the shade area is gone to gain back some of those health.
turbid needle
Does the damage have to be done to the enemy that hit me?
dreamy jackal
Nope, any enemy is fine
With anything is fine as well
@orchid rapids Well, right now the game real have problem in late game part, which is understandable. We’re supposed to have a long way to go to actually beat the game, but not currently. Basically, we shouldn’t be doing any late game grinding right now, yet here we are...
From that point of view having Darkness reward from chest is great. You want to pay some keys for a challenge that ultimately make you permanently stronger for the next run
All the progression resources are perfect at the moment, really
Remember how the game felt right before you consistently kill Hydra
I don’t want the developers to mess that up. Your suggested solutions are good, but only for a few months. Once the game is complete, it’s bad...
orchid rapids
Well I'm not saying doing away with progression. Progression is important and feels good. The designers have actually done something very cool here by interspersing progression rewards with run rewards. For example other roguelike games don't necessarily give you a reward every "room". The reason is of course that it makes you too powerful too fast. Like in Enter the Gungeon you mostly get rewards when opening chests and clearing entire levels. By design you have to have some rooms that don't make you way stronger in that run. What the designers did with Hades is actually very clever. They realized that you can't give players non-stop "individual run" upgrades every room so what they did is instead gave progression rewards instead of just leaving empty rooms. I think that's awesome! They managed to make something not so rewarding in other roguelikes to feel very rewarding in Hades without breaking balance. My main concern is focusing too much only on progression rewards/variety rather than also giving the variety of individual runs their due. I'm saying keep progression and progression rewards but also add a lot of depth and variety to the individual runs as well.
dreamy jackal
Okay, I’m completely agree with that. I hate Dead Cell for the very reason you pointed out. Still, though, I’m not convinced that your suggestion would fix it... Sorry...
raw sonnet
Ship OP... look at all those clears
😄 I got 2!
They fixed the shield block feedback stack... but almost beat it with him anyway
dreamy jackal
Ship???
raw sonnet
Yeah @plush blaze is OP... Astra is strong too
dreamy jackal
What is ship? Astra is in Black Clover Not Hades, dude!
dapper heart
@dreamy jackal Two different people posted their victory screens.
I'm Astra.
Ship was the other person!
Ship's better at it, I flaff about trying to not scream. 😄
dapper heart
(Astra is my handle elsewhere, but since I'm here because of the game Hades, I went for a Greek mythology joke.)
(On another server I use it because it's a discord for a modern mythology tabletop game, and the astra are supernatural superweapons from Hindu mythology.)
flint totem
Scion?
upbeat junco
Hey guys, just joined and I thought I'd asked your opinions on what your preferred builds and weapons are as well as what you think is the best weapon/build currently.
My preferred weapon is the bow with Poseidon or Athena attack damage increase with Artemis crit increases. Your opinions?
flint totem
I am a bow person that likes Artemis and Chaos buffs
Not really in it for optimizing the build right now
kind fiber
Still experimenting a bit with the changes, but I think the bow is my least favored weapon, cast builds seem pretty consistent now, prefer using sword and spear with Zeus being a favored attack boon
flint totem
Fun thing I got last night was rapid fire bow and ares attack
upbeat junco
That seems pretty interesting build
kind fiber
Okay, seems kinda meh?
flint totem
Ares attack is actually useful for the blue shield
upbeat junco
Well it seems like it'd probably be better with multiple enemies with putting the curse on as many enemies as possible
flint totem
If you have that turned on
stray radish
@mellow aurora you can turn off aim assist in controls
upbeat junco
What was the damage from the curse?
mellow aurora
@stray radish ok thanks
upbeat junco
I had a run earlier with Poseidon attack boon and Artemis crits and if I got a crit, backstab, shard damage increase I hit like 1100
flint totem
Like 128 I think don't remember if that was with boiling blood
upbeat junco
Didn't get a screenshot tho :/
flint totem
The darkness capper for builds is actually really painful
flint totem
Like the toil that caps darkness for the mirror
upbeat junco
oh right
Haven't tried any toils yet. Been trying to find a good enough build that I could use for when I start toils.
upbeat junco
Well for now there isn't anything that I can think of that the toils could give you.
ancient vessel
i'd be happy if they unlocked bedroom decor
upbeat junco
Assuming you've already completed mirror when you've unlocked giving you extra darkness when using toils would be useless, same with keys.
Ambrosia wouldn't be any good either
Maybe even training room decor would be cool
ancient vessel
decor everywhere
upbeat junco
I'd say the best thing that toils could give you might be a late game resource that comes out in later updates.
Actually yea hades boons would be cool
ancient vessel
why would hades help you tho ?
upbeat junco
Maybe a resource that you give to Hades which unlocks occasional boons
flint totem
I don't know. I just felt like putting it out there
upbeat junco
What about upgrading weapon base stats?
If you complete a run with lets say the toils active depending on the level of the toil and how many your using you get experience added to the weapon that levels up and increases base stats maybe?
This could make the initial run easier and prepare you for late game
ancient vessel
Idk why you would want that if you're already taking toils like increasing enemy health they kind of cancel each other out
If they make daily runs or some leaderboard scoring they could use this system very well
upbeat junco
Idk daily runs seems like something that will be added to the game. But even so, it would be nice if toils gave you some reward like Stray said
dapper heart
@flint totem Yes!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/340618610227544065/535343502393999360/unknown.png Next verse, a little bit louder and a whole lot Zeus.
cedar ice
Am I the only one who thinks that Hydra has become to easy of a boss?
I don't remember for sure, but it seems that earlier you could not deflect or hit her projectiles, but now you can
dapper heart
Frankly, I found it weird you couldn't before.
You could deflect MEG'S attacks (with good timing).
proud storm
I think its to balance accordingly for the upcoming areas
dapper heart
But not an obviously telegraphed attack?
solar sapphire
hahaha, max punishment is crazy
cedar ice
For Meg I agree
solar sapphire
anyone tried it? Any tips? what was your farthest?
proud storm
I only have 60 heat rn
dapper heart
Superior, get used to laughing at Zagreus's deaths.
solar sapphire
I more laugh at myself for dying in room 3 xD
cedar ice
How much damage dose Weak reduce? Around 50%?
solar sapphire
oh, maybe it's the one time to shine for shield
Yes, I think it's 50%. Not entirely sure though
turbid needle
Spear seem to be in need of a big buff. I find it super hard to fight with it at all.
errant narwhal
yo what its all epics
dapper heart
@turbid needle It depends; with it with Athena's attack, it's pretty helpful, for example!
errant narwhal
also yeah im swording to fill out my codex
my brother just laughed at me for using it
turbid needle
@dapper heart I'll test it. Still find it super hard to not get hit when trying to deal damage.
dapper heart
How do you avoid getting hit while using the sword?
flint totem
The nova strike seems to be helpful in that now
Since armor doesn't affect knock back anymore
flint totem
Nice
turbid needle
@dapper heart You can hope for Poseidon's boon.
dapper heart
I haven't had much luck with him. I get too reckless, I think.
mellow aurora
all the weapons seem decently balanced to me with spear or bow being the best and shield being my least favorite. ive never had a problem with sword really and i under utilize its super nova if anything
mellow aurora
@dapper heart what enemy type are you having problems with?
dapper heart
Hm. I'm not sure. I think it's more of flow related? I tend to like fighting via overwhelming crit power and damaging dashes.
solar sapphire
when you want to use spear for big damage you should to use mostly spin attack
otherwise the base damage isn't very big and it get's more bonus from stuff like zeus attack, since it procs on every strike and spear has fast attack speed
dapper heart
See, I get caught up when I do that. I usually do a mix of Athena and dash with Spear.
solar sapphire
epic zeus attack is basically 300% damage on attack for spear plus it makes your attack AoE
90% of the time you only want arthemis dash
for any build ;)
after patch even for cast, lul
1.5k crit zeus bouncing lightningballs is fun, haha
dapper heart
Bleep that, I do Zeus dash and run about like a maniac. 😄
solar sapphire
Yes, Zeus dash is insane too I think. Used it before patch when I would go for a cast build
errant narwhal
THATS UH. A LOT
flint totem
Lol definitely won via that at least once
solar sapphire
But now that arthemis dash also affects cast, it's just insane
fierce estuary
How do we send feedback?
errant narwhal
read the pins in #hades-feedback
flint totem
Feedback channel
solar sapphire
plus if you get pressure points too, you dont even need to upgrade the dash and have base 40% crit on your cast, lol
mellow aurora
honestly i do just fine with out the spear spin attack i just feel vulnerable when using it. what makes the spear great for me is the fact that you can hit so many enemies at one with both its special and spear attack
fierce estuary
Thanks Alma, didn't notice those at the top
solar sapphire
@mellow aurora the idea is to use spin on daedalus + arthemis dash + athena attack
flint totem
Honestly the spear is the one weapon I don't like
solar sapphire
and time your dash + spin so that it hits on spawn
dapper heart
Also, Stray, correct, it's a Scion discord.
solar sapphire
you oneshot (or after patch unarmor) everything on spawn
mellow aurora
yeah that sounds broken
flint totem
Sweet. I am running some scion for friends on Saturday
solar sapphire
But I agree, that many builds like big spin crits got kinda nerfed by the crit change
dapper heart
Oh, nice! Is it okay that I ask for details afterward? I love hearing after action stories.
solar sapphire
Tripple shot still OP with it though :]
flint totem
Sure
forest marsh
@fallen lintel re: quick save in The House of Hades, the game does save between rooms. I use this to save my loadout before I exit the game all the time. I select my weapon and keepsake, then re-enter Zagreus' 
room to save it. You should see the saving icon every time you move between rooms
fallen lintel
i've never once seen this happen
i always have to redo conversations
unless i go to tartarus to force a save
same with weapons, mirror, everything
tribal hornet
as if the hydra wasnt already hard enough, why tf do bloodless have to spawn
forest marsh
I'll keep an eye out next time I move between the main hall and Zag's room, but I know it saves for me between Skelly's room and Zag's room
tribal hornet
so annoying
fallen lintel
i can't be the only one though?
fallen lintel
yeah i doubt you're lying but it's certainly not like that for me
flint totem
Yeah the bloodless can be stopped from spawning but there is also so much going on in the last part of that fight
forest marsh
I'm not on my computer to check, but is there anything in the settings regarding quick saves?
tribal hornet
so does using heat get you any bonuses or is it litteraly just for the sake of being harder
flint totem
Currently no extra rewards
forest marsh
Might be something to post about in #h1-tech-support then, invert
forest marsh
And/or report it as a bug in-game with F10
forest marsh
Understandably, since there's no way to tell if it's intended behavior until someone says otherwise
tribal hornet
i cannot stand the bomb enemies
they do so much dmage and it's hard to avoid the min large groups
harsh kelp
Nice!
tight bridge
is it just me or do artemis' boons kinda blow now, i'm okay with hunter dash being nerfed because god it was overpowered but an epic boon just giving attacks 30% crit chance? while other gives a lot more raw damage which is way better than crit chance
quaint gale
it's also triple damage on crits now, right?
manic goblet
it's definitely more than double damage now
quaint gale
and then getting extra crit damage can net you up to +150% more damage level 1
that's insanely high damage amounts
manic goblet
it's probably in line with the other damage increasing effects
tight bridge
oh i had no idea that was the case
flint totem
Also dash applies to cast as well now
tight bridge
that's cool
quaint gale
check what it says when you hover over a crit boon, I think the crit description now says triple damage
tight bridge
i'll definitely keep that in mind then
flint totem
The change definitely messes me up still as a bow player cause it was definitely the one boon I always wanted
tight bridge
i mean that boon was good on any weapon
flint totem
I didn't use it on shield or sword
I preferred the other upgrades to sword that weren't the dash attack
manic goblet
preference is one thing but it was mathematically the best boon in the game
especially because the mirror also had a dash attack upgrade
really glad they replaced that with the cast one
flint totem
Not if your strategy didn't have you dashing around that much or not using basic attacks
quaint gale
I feel like this game encourages dashing around for everything
(which is what I like because I'm neurotic)
flint totem
Shield's special builds were more my thing and life drinker sword kind of relied on just hitting things enough times
I do agree dashing around is part of a lot of strategies but discounting the other dashes are a bit unfair
manic goblet
well, I never tried to disregard your strategies but 100% dmg increase from mirror plus 100% dmg increase from hunter's dash was just blatantly OP 
no matter what weapon you use
quaint gale
I still think the Artemis dash is the best dash to take, especially now that it works with any attack
manic goblet
Zeus dash is pretty good now as well
I think it didn't target before but now it does?
flint totem
It did
quaint gale
I certainly won't say the other dashes are terrible, especially if you get a bunch of the same god's boon and you can stack their niche
but the Artemis dash works with everything
manic goblet
yeah, it's still a huge dmg increase
quaint gale
but also yeah if I get a bunch of Zeus boons I'm gonna go unlimited power on some fools
void gulch
first win ever lol, 0 lives left and 2 hp
manic goblet
congrats 
flint totem
Grats man
flint totem
Can we all agree ares feels kind of bad now bc of boiling blood
void gulch
i really like getting curse on the shield charge
manic goblet
I actually didn't get any Ares boons in my last runs 🤔
quaint gale
the cast, specifically? I think it fills a unique niche in breaking shields now, but yeah, it does lose that
flint totem
Yeah but the curse honestly is better at dealing with armor and the like
Both rift powers feel underwhelming but I might just not have gotten enough of his boons
/turning on the darkness cap so less chance at high rarity booms might have done it
turbid needle
really enjoying this update, and the change in the hydra fight is good :3, so far got a 3 clear streak going
pastel jolt
yeah bc it doesn't stick in enemies
ebon gorge
i used ares boons last night on both my dash and cast with with the boon that increases the rift range at lv2 the rift is 50% wider which was actually quite good and fun but without upgrading ares boons it does feel kind of week
turbid needle
I got a run with tons of Ares boons yesterday both epic dash boon and even his legendary vortex and the aoe increase, I got a win by purely dashing, it made the hydra super trivial
Ares is not bad, he's just a bit harder to make him work
I will agree that his cast is really meh though
It's never really a pick
autumn tapir
the core problem with ares is that he does damage a few moments after you hit an enemy, compared to do the almost equal instant damage buffs of the other gods
since it doesn't really stack it's a small bonus that can be replaced by using a vanilla cast
turbid needle
That's not necessarily a bad thing you can abuse it pretty hard tbh
At least if you get enough vortex buffs
Obviously i'd rather crit for 1500 flat with with the bow with the right artemis boons over bothering with ares vortex
But it's not bad, it's just not as good. I'd argue artemis is just flat out too strong in comparison to all the other gods in general so everything pales in comparison
autumn tapir
artemis and aphrodite are must-picks imo
turbid needle
Aphrodite is really good too
I think sword + athena special reflect + dmg boon is an autowin combo aswell
Those 3 stand out a lot
indigo compass
proud storm
lmao you can make gorgons have a taste of their own medicine with athena's boons
pastel jolt
hey, anyone had a daedalus hammer show up in a shop since the patch? i know the cost of them increased but idk what to
proud storm
200
pastel jolt
👌
proud storm
i really have a knack for getting chaos boons right before hydra
i'm so excited,,, https://gfycat.com/AgitatedConcernedCorydorascatfish
trim ingot
Oof
simple folio
How often do you guys actually see legendary boons? I have done close to 40 runs and killed Hydra 4 times. Never seen one.
stray radish
now you can beat hydra in slow motion xD
proud storm
u need to get a certain set of boons with one god to unlock the possibility of getting their legendary
pastel jolt
sarien, legendary boons won't appear on their own, you need other ones to unlock them
simple folio
how does that work exactly?
proud storm
it differs from one god to another
stray radish
they're not like you'd normally expect legendary things in games, it's not rarity. it's stacked boons, or something like that
proud storm
to give u an example, to get aphrodite's legendary you need one of her base boons (attack/special/dash buff) then another one of her boons (empty inside or sweet surrender
simple folio
I got to a point where Zeus boon gave me gold becuase "he had nothing else to offer" and still no legendary
proud storm
then you get the possibility to get her legendary if you meet her again
simple folio
is there a list for this somewhere? it does not seem very intuitive
proud storm
wiki
hold on
it's not very intuitive at first but eventually you figure out how it works
zeus also has like. the least amount of boons out of all gods
tough choices https://i.imgur.com/56zFNU5.png
obtuse merlin
steady shot is not worth it imho
it takes too long, its a pain to manage
I usually go point-blank a bit risky but quite fun
pastel jolt
speaking of the wiki, i've updated it so now there's a page for heat and also for chaos's keepsake
also yeah point-blank shot is 👌 👌 👌
obtuse merlin
blink shoot / blink shoot
together with Artemis quite good (even with the extreme nerf, which it really needed in all fairness)
(Artemis dash that is)
green musk
Steady shot is great tho
coz it's guaranteed damage
Whenever you get off a shot, it does more
Point blank is stronger in raw damage, but harder to get off
somber epoch
i like perfect shot
urban tree
Is the poseidon stun (if they hit a wall) supposed to stun armored enemies?
tulip timber
I love the slip-slide of the lowered movement speed animation.
somber epoch
No, Texas
tulip timber
?
somber epoch
at least im pretty sure it shouldnt
pastel jolt
does anyone have a rank 3 boon keepsake?
i'm guessing rank 3 ups the chance to +20% but i don't actually know
livid kraken
It goes up to 25
I'm assuming you're talking about boon keepsakes like Zeus and stuff
pastel jolt
yeah
i only have a couple at rank 2 so idk how high the ranks go or what the numbers are
i've tried looking in the files and lmao nah that's some confusing stuff
pastel jolt
thought so. so it's 10-15-25?
livid kraken
idk about other keepsakes that are not for boons
pastel jolt
for the god boons i mean
pastel jolt
yeah see i thought a 5% jump each time made more sense
stuck bloom
papa Zeus provides Legendary boons. me happy dashing my enemies into oblivion.
worn dawn
Zeus attack best attack
stuck bloom
but...dashes...
worn dawn
Zeus everything
open mural
I had fun with my last run getting Poseidon and Artemis legendaries with my shield-special + cast build
stuck bloom
ZEUS IT
open mural
That is not necessarily a good build but it was fun and got job done
worn dawn
Makes his legendary hilarious if you have both dash and attack
manic ermine
I have never seen a Blood Gate in room 1 before
pastel jolt
i have! chaos is an overeager puppy and i love them.
somber epoch
chaos is a dog confirmed
rustic tusk
The portal is often lost within the chaos of killing many things
pastel jolt
i think there is a sound for it, actually
i'm sure i've heard it before
(re: the feedback about blood gate notifications)
rustic tusk
Am I the only one that hates how the Chaos works in bosses? I didn't know when the boss coming, and I suddenly could not use my attacks on the hydra otherwise I would lose HP.
Either the boons should be specific to the boss with higher rewards, or I should be able to know or something
Also, the reward itself was weird. "Don't use attacks for 97% increased cast damg."
If I was going a Cast/special attack build, then this wouldn't be an issue. But if I am going an attack build, the boon would be useless.
It renders the trail pointless. It's not really "higher risks higher rewards" in that case. If it was "Don't use attacks for 2 rounds and get 50% attack damg" or something like that then the ordeal would be worth it
somber epoch
I'm sure we'll see tweaks
I think the point of the update was to get the functionality out there at all
grand patrol
yess ive gotten a few room 1 gates!! they rly wanna see zag huh :'')))
somber epoch
though i wish we would get an armor revert
and maybe just remove hide breaker entirely
cause i don't think the sword or spear hammer buffs were broken, right? tallking about the ones that help shred armor
also life drinker plz
rustic tusk
I think it was a nerf to all the one shots. Like for the Spear, you run away, find a safe spot, charge your attack and then dash (if you have artmis) you'll critical strike and kill most things if you have other buffs
And before the armor break was basically mandatory. The real issue are monsters with armor, and a 400% boost to deal half their HP, if armor is 100% of their original HP, is just too broken.
graceful bough
Chaos seems mega OP.
I deal 89% more damage, permanently, because I was willing to walk slowly for three early stages.
stray radish
oof
i get that it's random but they should probably tweak the scaling a bit xD the later you get it, the bigger the risk/reward factor
rustic tusk
lol well said. RNG is fun, but the rewards should scale better with difficultly
rustic tusk
Also, there is nothing I hate more than flat damg increases. That gets boring quickly
Well legendary boons are broken too yo
stray radish
smaller bonus when it's easy, huge bonus when it's hard
graceful bough
Legendary boons are insanely rare, though
rustic tusk
Yup, that's the balance for them
The balance for chaos should be difficulty, not to just reduce the rewards
they're also a bit rare, or I always miss the gates somehow
stray radish
yeah when i say scaling i mean both effects
and they became pretty sneaky since this patch
even in the first area you gotta look for them
rustic tusk
Yeah I agree with you there. Honestly I really want boons that change my playstyle , not just give damage. The boons are already getting boring. There is a bit of difference, but after playing so much there is really little difference.
THe hammer though, that makes the runs more fun. For the sword there is very quick attacks which is by far my fav, and the one hit wonder
pastel jolt
nnnnot to interrupt but it's me the wiki gremlin back to ask - if anyone has upgraded the keepsakes from orpheus, meg, sisyphus, or achilles, i'd like to know what the upgraded stats are
ok continue
somber epoch
all the mods are wiki gremlins
rustic tusk
Also there is a lack of curses. What type of roguelike does not have curses?! Chaos is a good start but I want more stuff that punish me. Slay the spire wouldn't have half as fun without the curses or rewards for limitions (such as getting more energy but only playing one 6 cards, or not gaining any gold)
somber epoch
uh, pact of punishment?
rustic tusk
Is that the chaos debuffs for rewards? that's a temp curse. Something more lasting changes play style as much as a good boon
rustic tusk
I have, but before the patch
did they add something more?
Do you mean the table in the room that makes the game harder?
Yeah but that just doesn't give me anything in return
somber epoch
ah, i see
i suspect you'll get benefits from the Pact later in the game's lifecycle
they probably just wanted this feature actually out in time for the update
plush blaze
Also a new bug seems to be that the hydra does a little dance when you enter the room
The head goes forwards and backwards for a couple of seconds in a weird way
It's kind of funny
drifting hemlock
That was there prior to the patch aswell
plush blaze
Ah ok, I hadn't seen it before until the chaos update
livid kraken
Leave the poor snek alone! It's sitting in lava whole day. It has to stretch the neck sometimes
graceful bough
I haven't encountered the hydra dance yet.
drifting hemlock
@livid kraken have you managed to finish on 150 skulls yet?
beat the hydra that is
orchid socket
does the game get harder when you get more skulls?
Just finsihed the game with one dash and no upgrades, so would like to make it harder if possible
somber epoch
you can use the Pact to make it harder
orchid socket
Pact?
somber epoch
the thing you spend Heat on
drifting hemlock
It kinda blends in 😄
orchid socket
how much harder can you make it get?
somber epoch
you can change a bunch of things
drifting hemlock
2 sec ill write it for you
somber epoch
you can make enemies do like 500% more damage than usual
drifting hemlock
Limit yourself to only 500 Darkness
-100% healing (Can't heal anymore but max health and death defy still works)
You only get offered 1 boon at a time instead of 3
100% more health for the enemy
500% more damage for the enemy
All enemies ignore the first 3 instances of damage
100% more enemies per room
This is a maxed out pact
Costs 150 skulls
orchid socket
nice 😃 feels kinda weird to make people play a lot to increase the difficulty
if i wanna make it insane mode shouldnt i just be able to do that without spending multiple hours?
orchid socket
thats a lot of time
drifting hemlock
Well roguelikes are grind games
errant narwhal
it’s not exactly making people play a lot to increase the difficulty, it’s letting people who play a lot already do that
orchid socket
i am fine with playting a lot to make the game easier 😄 but to make it harder feels weird
drifting hemlock
Yep theres missing an incentive to boop the diff up imo
errant narwhal
you can also use the merchant to buy heat
well, people complained about no way to make the game harder, and there is one now :P
orchid socket
😃 now there is
drifting hemlock
My complain wasnt that i needed a way to make it harder, my complain was that it was trivially easy
orchid socket
atleast now i know there is a way to make it harder, i will probably reach enough skulls and keys after enough time
pastel jolt
Lizzy, aren't those kinda the same thing? 🤔
livid kraken
I like increased difficulty since you can't just bail out with lucky boons. Finished rooms feel like a deserved win now
pastel jolt
besides, what is trivially easy to one person is insanely difficult to another
drifting hemlock
Kinda the same but then again no, the game itself shouldnt be easy unless the player intervenes to make it harder, I'd like the game to be difficult and then you can add diff multipliers with added rewards
Also most of the options are some that i dont need heat for e.g. the darkness restrictor.. I can just manually remove darkness
stray radish
the game itself shouldnt be insanely hard either
drifting hemlock
nono but not insanely trivial
steep wraith
Hey every1, idk if this channel is made for stupid questions, but how to start game? I mean i just started, died once, took my bow and what next? How to leave that room with weapons?
stray radish
the window on the bottom of the weapon room
livid kraken
Go right
drifting hemlock
my first run i got a 1000 dmg cast, the highest hp enemy (hydra) has 8000... Thats overpowered
steep wraith
I am there, standing on the edge, but nothing happens
stray radish
you need to click the button
steep wraith
but theres no button
stray radish
it should tell you near the pink window which button, it's E on m+kb
and well there should be a button xD
steep wraith
im dumb, sorry, now all is fine, ty!
drifting hemlock
Also most of the pact increasers just feels like artificial diff increasers... 2 of them just makes the enemies into bullet sponges
stray radish
it's okay! have fun
worn fulcrum
I think that's most of the difficult increase needed to make things nontrivial
Enemies dying instantly to spear charges or casts or whatnot lets you cruise through in a way that's not really possible with higher health
drifting hemlock
Before i started on heat I had a 20 run streak losing only a single DD across those runs, I get that people are of different skill levels in all games but there wasn't really any challenge in the game itself, jsut the fact that you can get a lv1 cast dealing enough damage to one shot everything in tartarus in itself is bonkers
solar sapphire
@drifting hemlock how can you make so many statements with saying "most" when it's always 2/7 ?
Math not needed anymore? :<
drifting hemlock
what is 2/7? Sorry my brain isnt connecting here
solar sapphire
true dat
drifting hemlock
True dat what?
stray radish
maybe you're just too got for this game
solar sapphire
"most" you can do by yourself. without pact... which is darkness and maybe healing
"most" are just artificial difficult increaser "like 2 make them bullet sponges"
stray radish
i've had plenty of challenge
you might need to find something harder to satisfy your gamer needs
solar sapphire
yeh
solar sapphire
so far I found grinding to asphodel with max punishment quite enjoyable
worn fulcrum
if the game is too easy, make it harder
if the easiest difficulty is too hard, or the hardest difficulty is too easy, then that's problematic, but otherwise there are many knobs to turn
drifting hemlock
no healing and only 1 boon is the only ones actually making for a challenge, the darkness one is redundant tbh and the rest is just making the enemies thicker
stray radish
you can make personal challenges for yourself outside of the game
drifting hemlock
Maybe im just used to it being the game giving me the challenge rather than me having to give myself the challenge
stray radish
may be
solar sapphire
have you finished hydra with max punishment?
drifting hemlock
Punishment as in heat? Not yet
drifting hemlock
not yet
solar sapphire
the game just gave you a challenge
when you don't enjoy it, I can understand and that's definetly a good point for feedback
on better punishments etc
drifting hemlock
Yeah but thats still me having to flip a switch, it's not the game giving me a challenge, it's saying "If im too easy to beat heres a non-incentive switch" - to me it's not the same
stray radish
all of their games work that way
drifting hemlock
The punishments are too bland imo spare for the no heals and restricted boon options
stray radish
they're not exactly that hard on normal mode and you can choose your limiters
cause idk, maybe they want to give some less skilled/casual players a chance
grand patrol
If you have ideas for punishments, it would be great to put them in feedback!
solar sapphire
Hm, I can see where you are coming from, but I don't quite get it
unborn spire
I've been trying to save up to max-out the bottom one (can't remember name) to do a "swarm" run. Does it spawn a lot more enemies?
solar sapphire
that's like saying "why do I have to go to the menus and switch from "normal" to "nightmare"?
to me at least it sounds like that
stray radish
kinda
solar sapphire
I do understand where the feeling is coming from
drifting hemlock
See thats where i dont agree and i have no proper argument as for why that is! 😄
Playing e.g. God of War i picked the hardest option right off the bat and that felt like the game being just hard as heck and the game giving me the challenge instead of me, in-game being able to pummel everything instead of me having to turn a knob there..... Its the same but its not
solar sapphire
because it's so integrated in the world
but in essence it's still the same as having a menu with sliders for difficulties
stray radish
maybe it just feels annoying if you have to do it all manually
drifting hemlock
@unborn spire it doesn't feel too much like its a huge swarm of enemies as much as, the enemy cycle of spawns increases
stray radish
would it help if the pact mirror or whatever that is was just 'max out' option?
clear mirror would be a neat option anyway
solar sapphire
What I can also understand very well, is the wish to have access to"nightmare difficulty" right off the bat, instead of having to beat the game AND grind for hours to get access to it
drifting hemlock
I mean it doesn't really make sense that it stops at 500 darkness, might aswell go two extra steps and be 0 at max
stray radish
thats fair
drifting hemlock
but again this diff modifier is silly because i can just go empty the mirror without grinding for heat
Maybe im just old and moody, being 80 years old isnt easy
stray radish
keep in mind the early access has been out for just a bit over a month
solar sapphire
I think the 500 darkness is so you don't have to try using 1 dash xD
stray radish
a lot can still change and be upgraded on their end
worn fulcrum
The heat spent in a run might be relevant later, yeah
drifting hemlock
Yeah but again if its in the players hands to turn the knobs, the knob might aswell turn to 0, and if a player so desires they can turn it to 500 and get dashes
worn fulcrum
and it's tracked now, also
jade estuary
whats the best hammer / daedalus upgrade for spear and bow?
stray radish
idk to me your feedback sounds valid but also a bit entitled
drifting hemlock
And my feedback through this is that everything is too strong right now, I mean the chaos cast boons giving 30-90% extra damage? That should be 10-20 at most of you ask me. As a cast main I'd the over the top thrilled to get a 10-20% increase.... getting 90 is just a "And so i won"
It does
stray radish
it is what it is for now
drifting hemlock
Im pretty terrible at doing proper feedback
I guess its a big bunch of "The meaning is good, but the delivery is... yeah"
stray radish
haha, a little
drifting hemlock
Im working on it 😄
You know how the saying goes: "Slow and steady gave proper feedback" or something like that
stray radish
sure xD
also Anarion, i like the armor break on spear's special
i just like the option to break armor easier @_@
stray radish
like objectively by pure numbers/functionality there probably are Bests
drifting hemlock
In a 150 heat run... Having a 50 dmg zeus attack... Getting greedy and going to Chaos... The only boon offered deals dmg to myself on attack, and so i lost
stray radish
but why would you bother if they're not fun to you