Even in a group
#h1-builds-and-combat
ivory dragon
hard holly
Even in a group, yeah
ivory dragon
Just know the enemy animations and you are fine
And ofc don't dash right in front of skellies :D
rain axle
don't worry they will just jump to you anyways
rain axle
anyone else notice that you cannot stop their attack when they have no armor?
they used to get that slight hit stun
ivory dragon
Once the windup starts its coming out yeah
When I did my damageless death boat attempt I got in the habit of slow walking to bait them into it before dash clearing
hard holly
Anyway, since Ill be going in a bit, the TLDR is
ivory dragon
Baiting it out before acting is pretty safe, just slower
glossy slate
your math is a bit screwy
hard holly
Crit is a multiplicative damage increase and just becomes better as time goes on
Hence why its so busted
glossy slate
first, crit multiplies the damage after any attack boosts, not before
ivory dragon
I think having an extra floor of content will put the scaling VS flat on full display
glossy slate
second, if you're using crit dash with a spear you're not using the basic stabs
hard holly
Zeus' attack is good with Flurry Blade, but pretty much only with flurry blade
For all other weapons and hammer upgrades, Athena is just considerably better
ivory dragon
But to be fair, optimal is hardly needed for any real reason other than clear speeds
glossy slate
๐
hard holly
True, but it does make things easier
ivory dragon
Can't argue against that haha!
glossy slate
I'm not sure how I'm going to be able to top spinning in like a rampaging beyblade and atomizing a pack of bloodless for 1200 damage
but by god I'm going to try
ivory dragon
My best friend swears by Zeus and spear and hates bow. He's such a different animal than me.
glossy slate
bow's my relaxed shadow farming weapon
glossy slate
if I want to go for memes and have a good time I bring spear
ivory dragon
Yeah I've done quite a few special runs but man
It annoys me and I'll tell you why
The explosive aoe on javelin toss
Makes the spear stop in front of enemies
Waiting a second to get that juicy back stab follow up just feels bad to me
glossy slate
real good if you can throw the spear past them at a nearby wall or pillar though
dim linden
I just can't enjoy the spear's special, the animation lock is too much
ivory dragon
If it didn't stop the spear it'd be good fun
hard holly
I go for crit and 200% damage if its possible
ivory dragon
Still clearable obv, just so sad
dim linden
Yeaaah, I did a run with it and it took 28 mins to finish lol
hard holly
It is probably a bit too reliant on the crit upgrade though, I admit
Since Hunters Dash doesnt work
ivory dragon
I don't really build anything anymore though, I legit roll the dice on choices for the funsies
Stuff gets whacky super fast
glossy slate
Frost is playing on a completely different level than us mortals
ivory dragon
Pfffft
dim linden
Done that a few times, had fun with a revenge/tank build I got going by accident
dim linden
like 40% dmg reduction + aphro weakness dash and tons of revenge, was great lol
glossy slate
do you go for Ares or Zeus for revenge damage?
ivory dragon
I feel like you have to listen to papa roach as a prereq for revenge runs
dim linden
Yeah my Zeus was epic so I put my poms into that over rare Ares
ivory dragon
Poor ares
hard holly
He does have the damage upgrade to attacks thats good
And I like his cast upgrade
But delayed damage as a mechanic is kind of not good
dim linden
I do enjoy the curse damage on spear with range hammer upgrade on occasion, hunters dash timing and the delay match up enough to keep it rolling so you're always dash attacking. Fast paced fun
ivory dragon
You know I think I've evolved my thinking a bit. I think I dislike the armor variant of the fat guys that charge you more than I dislike the hydra heads.
๐ค
vapid mauve
The louts
glossy slate
They deserve every second of suffering I bring down on them
vapid mauve
I don't mind them as long as I'm not overwhelmed by other stuff going on
ivory dragon
Yeah I'm terrible with names hahaha
You are just forced into the bull fight meta since it's early enough you don't just crush them. It's like mini megs?
dim linden
For me it's the skellies. Once there's a bunch of armored ones I just always get hit by some random one that jumps off screen that I don't register right away
ivory dragon
Probably good they exist to train you for Meg, but still bahaha
Skellies used to be my kryptonite
hard holly
Louts are a pain, yes
ivory dragon
Anyone else feel like the timed survival rooms should require at least x number of kills before completing?
glossy slate
but like meg, getting deflection on cast makes them hilarious to toy with
maybe if they didn't immediately swarm you
dim linden
mmm that kinda kills speedruns and if you get unlucky on builds early, I would prefer incentive for actually killing them
glossy slate
the timed rooms get insane real fast
ivory dragon
Fair
granite edge
I really like the different weapons in this game. Each one seems to have a different playstyle to it. I can't wait for this games full release. I'm still struggling with it. But as an engineer, writer, and mythology buff. The devs really seem to care about accuracy, and it keeps me going. I hope that this game has plenty of weapons to keep it fresh
ivory dragon
They are basically just edge rotation for me
No engagement, just circle the room with a dash here and there
glossy slate
I'm really looking forward to new weapon releases
vapid mauve
yeah they are in a weird place. Most times you just circle and it's free, other times it gets crazy
pastel jolt
i've reached the point where i can consistently beat meg with all weapons but getting to hydra isn't always a guarantee
which is fun
glossy slate
Give me a battleaxe
vapid mauve
I could roll with an axe
dim linden
I always try and clear them until I take damage then I just circle the room, also yes I want a battle axe so bad
ivory dragon
Progress bird!
I still secretly hold out hope for a yoyo weapon, knowing there is no way that gets added
pastel jolt
maybe now that it's the new year i should stop being dusa........
dim linden
Flail with a yoyo upgrade lol
hard holly
Also wouldnt mind a yoyo weapon
Though it would probably be some kind of chain weapon instead
ivory dragon
Yeah
Probably a flail if the archetype is added
But I will promise you one thing, I will crack open the files and mod the sprites to be a yoyo
ivory dragon
That's OK!
I do wonder though, talking about battle axes and scythes
How would you differentiate it from "generic melee alternative"
Sword and spear have a nice contrast
ivory dragon
So lower base damage but cleaving
hard holly
Not neccessarily lower base damage
As much as lower range
Plus, maybe have it have a sweetspot mechanic
Where the weapon does more damage on the edge than in the centre
Since the centre is just you hitting with a blunt stick
glossy slate
maybe give the axe higher base damage and a slow attack speed, but lots of options for armor shredding
dim linden
Would be cool if the special was like a ghost form so you can avoid damage for 1s or something with a Scythe
hard holly
I was thinking either a scythe throw like in DMC
ivory dragon
Probably a spinning throw
hard holly
Or basically an attack where you throw it out behind the enemy, and pull it in
Doing massive backstab damage
ivory dragon
That's a cool concept though phreak
hard holly
Axe is a bit trickier
Since Worldsplitter already covers the "slow but heavy attacks" thing
Plus, making it truly slow doesnt work all that well in this game
ivory dragon
Having inherit armor shred could be nice once more floors are added
granite edge
From what I know the greeks did have battle axes, and hatchets. I would love that weapon SO MUCH!!!
dim linden
I just think everything being a throw is a bit stale, adding in stuff for more counterplay than positioning would be awesome
or some sort of range variant
hard holly
Hm
Yeah I dont think Axe really has a niche it can fit in
I wouldnt be shocked if it was added, but I wouldnt be shocked if it wasnt either
ivory dragon
I feel you on pacing @hard holly - doing fresh Dave challenge is fun in it'd own way but playing it after having triple dash just feels like you are playing in molasses
dim linden
Stun on attack, even through armor for Axe would work
glossy slate
there's always Cronos' scythe actually
hard holly
Aka you dont flinch when hit during attacks
And you could have it heal you somehow so that the health lost isnt a huge downside
That could work
dim linden
Dauntless has that on their axe
hard holly
And yeah, Chronus scythe is why I think a scythe is basically guaranteed
It fits well, is flavourful for the theme and exists in the myth
dim linden
was a very fun playstyle, slow, unflinching but heavy hitting
glossy slate
since it was eventually reforged into Backbiter, maybe make it give up crit and have low base damage in exchange for a massive backstab modifier?
ivory dragon
Here we go how about a rock catapult you have to drag around with a rope lmao
stray radish
my scythe senses were tingling
ivory dragon
:D
hard holly
Backbiter is not part of the actual myth
And I dont think referencing a sort of known YA series is a good idea
Anyway, Scythe is pretty easy to make work too, but Axe is tricky
glossy slate
I knew my lust for fantasy would cause problems at some point
dim linden
It doesn't have to be in the damage that makes it unique, it could be the benefits of using it like shields ability to block damage
hard holly
I like the idea of a whip though
hard holly
As a mid-range weapon covering the gap between Spear and Bow
ivory dragon
Sweet spot whips can be good fun
hard holly
Beyond that, greek fire, Knuckles, etc. etc.
If it werent for the Labrys being pretty iconic, Id see no reason to go for an axe
But it is, so here we are
dim linden
I do wonder how many weapons they intend to add
plucky oxide
I'm on team whip. ๐ฅ
ivory dragon
It feels like it won't be a ton
glossy slate
probably one for each empty pedestal in the bullying training room
hard holly
6 is probably guaranteed
Id like to see 8 though
Or a more reworked version of 6 where they feel more distinct both between each other and within themselves
glossy slate
secret 7th weapon is just riding Cerberus into battle
ivory dragon
Clifford the big red dog mode engaged
glossy slate
enormous damage and health but your hitbox is the size of a bus and you can't dodge
dim linden
Permanent weapon upgrades also would be pretty sweet
hard holly
Nah, the secret weapon is using Cerberus as a flail
ivory dragon
I'm really glad they give you a second of standing on lava before it actually ticks damage though. My cast runs would have been so over otherwise
glossy slate
I wonder if there's a way to make Caduceus work as a weapon
ivory dragon
๐ค
hard holly
What if we get Hermes' shoes as a brawler-type weapon?
glossy slate
THIS! IS! HADES!
rain axle
run would have been great if I didn't hit 2 timed rooms and boat 17:25 https://imgur.com/a/qi6a8ah
glossy slate
oof
I've noticed you can kinda consistently avoid the boat if you pay attention to the door rewards
glossy slate
it almost always spawns alongside a shop and always has one boosted boon with a skull icon to mark the door
rain axle
is boat considered a mini boss?
glossy slate
yes
hard holly
Actually, now that I think about it, Aegis is the only weapon in Hades that exists in the lore
rain axle
not sure I've seen the name of the spear before
hard holly
So Chronic scythe might actually be a strike against the scythe being a weapon
rain axle
are you talking lore as in the game or lore as in real life mythology?
hard holly
Real life mythology
ivory dragon
boat is the real miniboss. the bomber twins were just a ruse
hard holly
This makes axe, Greek fire and whip much more likely
ivory dragon
going to try and get hades running under my linux thumbdrive. Gotta get that gameplay in while away from home ๐
glossy slate
hack the client and make it run DOOM
ivory dragon
every miniboss room will actually just require a full playthrough of doom ๐ค
seems legit
forest marsh
I don't know, this idea seems doomed from the start
ivory dragon
get outta here lmao
forest marsh
I haven't actually played any Hades in a few days, so I think that's how I'll spend my New Year's Eve ๐
autumn tapir
Has anyone actually determined precisely how much HP the bosses have?
forest marsh
There are approximate numbers on the wiki
Meg has ~5k, Hydra spawn heads have ~1k, main head has ~8k
tulip timber
HNY from CST.
south comet
^^^
rain axle
means hydra has 20k hp you have to get through
void gulch
finally killed meg wooo
forest marsh
Congrats! It gets easier every time, now 
void gulch
๐
upbeat storm
legendary boons are purely by chance or there are conditions that needs to be met
glossy slate
you need a tier 1 and tier 2 boon from the same god before they appear
tier 1 is all of the base bonuses, tier 2 is the boost that affects their specific bonuses
forest marsh
If you still aren't sure what that means, all prerequisites are listed on the wiki entry for each god. Check the pinned messages for the link
forest marsh
I'm not sure what this is
glossy slate
It does tend to be lost on people at first
forest marsh
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
errant narwhal
lol yes it has
proud void
truly
turbid needle
ok 1st timed run:
16:44
i started when entering through the window and stopped after leaving (after hydra)
๐
ionic laurel
in the Codex, what do those little hearts represent? Does one fill up when you reach x amount of talks/accepted boons with a character?
surreal hemlock
hearts will fill when you give the npc a ambrosia, locked hearts are for future updates
mostly give u additional story / dialogue
ionic laurel
right
if you give one gift to a character there's no real reason to give them more after that, then? other than the codex entry
surreal hemlock
first will give you a trinket, after that just story / dialogue
so at the least gift a ambrosia to every npc
ionic laurel
alright
and I assume all boon gods will give you an item similar to the one Ares gave me?
yeah looked up on wiki
lost rose
i give ambrosia to everyone because i love them and this is the only way the game lets me show that
plush blaze
No hug option 
lost rose
no hug option ๐
grand patrol
yet
stray radish
yet
plush blaze
hug everyone
thin glacier
Not even a "patting" option for cerberus :(
plush blaze
cerby needs neck scritches ๐
plush blaze
Done
thin glacier
gr8
plush blaze
I searched and nobody has asked for it before
thin glacier
I voted
plush blaze
As far as I can tell
thin glacier
very important stuff here
empty canopy
figured i'd make the suggestion alongside my other one since i can't offer too much feedback for now aside from what i see
empty canopy
...the doggo or the stat thing
stray radish
the pet doggo option
empty canopy
ah ok
thin glacier
gotta remind them, so we get it next patch!
patting Dusa should also be a thing, just saying.
Her hair could bite back
hard holly
I just realized
Technically, Medusas head was a weapon in greek myth
Dusa as the next weapon?
empty canopy
that would be funny
grand patrol
please yes
empty canopy
although maybe that should be more of a easter egg weapon, like you get it for maxing out dusas hearts or something
hard holly
The only worry would be that if we use her as a flail she might get brain damage
Though maybe that isnt a worry given that its dusa
plush blaze
Dusa but she shoots laser beams out of her eyes and says "Heck"
hard holly
Hold on
grand patrol
no she says "snek"
hard holly
Dusa can hover, right?
grand patrol
yea
hard holly
... why did she need wings before being decapitated?
plush blaze
๐
hard holly
For that matter, why did people start dropping the wings when depicting the gorgons?
ionic laurel
Dusa as a companion
she floats with you and cleans up after you, finding hidden loot
worn dawn
No Dusa has to stay where itโs safe D:
vapid mauve
she can just come down from the rafters after we clear the room 
spare scaffold
empty canopy
She's got enough to deal with with Cerberus wrecking the place and Hades being angry at anything that moves and some things that don't
I bet the only reason she ain't fired is because Hades honestly forgot she even exists
we don't need to drag her into cleaning all of Tartarus
tulip timber
I like the idea of companions or familiars though. As either a more active keepsake you select at the start or something else to pick up as a room reward.
ionic laurel
man the shield + Poseidon's melee knockback + Deadalus' quick charge shield bash is fun to use against mobs....but it didnt do much damage to Meg and she killed me 
dapper heart
Yeah, the bosses are unaffected by knockback is frustrating.
onyx badger
What is the picture of/significance by Badtouch?
pastel jolt
???
forest marsh
I think maybe Transistor reference? Nobody spilled when I was confused about it either 
onyx badger
Whatโs the reference?
true dock
forest marsh
Ok, I dug into the memes deep enough to gain understanding. Thanks Busty
onyx badger
Whatโs the meme?
pastel jolt
i still don't get what What is the picture of/significance by Badtouch? means
forest marsh
They're referring to the screenshot posted by Dr. Badtouch a little ways up in chat
pastel jolt
ahhhhhh fair enough
vague raptor
The bow with certain boons on it (Athena, and Poseidon Mainly) with the weapon mod for ANY damage increase makes it incredibly overpowered
like beat the hydra in 3 shots per damage cycle
fickle stream
I personally found the upgrade against distant enemies kind of meh
vague raptor
same, i prefer the 3 shot
of i forgot to say the artemis crit guarantee for teleporting is what makes it super op
so those 3 things together are way to strong
wise scroll
my game keeps freezing
mossy prairieBOT
Thanks for reporting a game freeze! The most common solution to this issue can be found in #hades-tech-fixes-old
onyx badger
freezing
mossy prairieBOT
Thanks for reporting a game freeze! The most common solution to this issue can be found in #hades-tech-fixes-old
still pewter
dang
onyx badger
Baby itโs freezing outside
mossy prairieBOT
Thanks for reporting a game freeze! The most common solution to this issue can be found in #hades-tech-fixes-old
errant narwhal
Please donโt try to set off the bot on purpose
onyx badger
Mr. Freeze vs Batman
mossy prairieBOT
Thanks for reporting a game freeze! The most common solution to this issue can be found in #hades-tech-fixes-old
forest marsh
Please, it's a-bot time everyone chilled out /sorrynotsorry
autumn tapir
the bot seems a bit sensitive
nocturne cedar
what are the purple stoff that you buy things with, what is the name
autumn tapir
Darkness
still pewter
can't you block meg's charge with shield?
glossy slate
I don't think I've ever successfully blocked a melee attack but I'm no good with the shield so
coarse ravine
You can probably only block things that are deflectable if I had to guess
still pewter
that's not the case, since you can block hydra projectiles, which are not deflectable
glossy slate
apparently the shield toss used to damage you on return
still pewter
how do you guys feel about the interaction between damage reduction and sources of dmg that deal 1dmg (like brimmstone lazors)
I'm not quite sure, but seems like DR doesnt effect such sources of damage
glossy slate
percentages are rounded up so it won't affect brimstone
still pewter
that's what I thought
in this case damage reduction has no value against these enemies
is that ok? not sure how I feel
glossy slate
it's more valuable at later stages when every enemy deals 10+ damage
still pewter
on the topic of damage reduction
when upgrading dr boons with poms, you often get increases of like 5% which due to rounding and the low numbers of dmg dealt in general, don't lead to any difference at all
you're still building up to the point where it does make a difference, say 2 upgrades of 5% end up giving 10% dr, which does translate
but it doesn't feel very good to use a pom that doesn't give you immediate power
tulip timber
Is there much difference between Athena DR and Aphrodite DR?
Besides the amount reduced? And are they added together, or does the damage go through each boon separately?
still pewter
as far as I know, aphrodite dr is an aura with a radius around you
no idea if they stack additively or multiplicatively
vapid mauve
I assume damage reductions stack multiplicitively (50% and 50% = 75%)
but never tested
tulip timber
Ah, right, Aphrodite is nearby.
still pewter
that sounds more likely
vapid mauve
additive damage reductions is a recipe for disaster
tulip timber
^^^
still pewter
yeah, athena is universal, like shield
DR in general was balance nightmare in dead cells
but I believe it can be done right
tulip timber
I mean, it should probably be functionally slightly better than a Centaur heart, and improve based on your max health.
Though the passive buffs in general have a pretty wide variance.
still pewter
do you guys think bloodstones should auto-return to you when you open infernal troves?
tulip timber
Yes.
still pewter
like they do when you progress chambers?
tulip timber
No reason not to, it's just a quality of life thing.
still pewter
also
has anyone else noticed that shield slamming is quite inconsisted in asphodel?
tulip timber
I can't find a rhyme or reason for why my bloodstones float back to me sometimes.
Oh, yeah, that's a common complaint.
vapid mauve
it's just on a long timer, p sure
tulip timber
The shield goes for a walk sometimes.
still pewter
not only the special
but like, hitting enemies on walls
some walls just seem to not really cooperate
and some debris
it's just kinda wonky
if anyone else could test, that'd be nice. it's not feedback I see often
vapid mauve
I recall that came up a long ways back on the feedback, at least the specific case of the little ash piles that block knocked back enemies but doesn't do wallslam damage
idk if there are other issues
still pewter
I can confirm that one's still there
vapid mauve
yeah, they havent patched in awhile cause of holidays
still pewter
yeah, I just don't wanna submit duplicate and/or redundant feedback that's why I'm asking here first
also, have you noticed any issues with knocking back the bloodless that do the dive-bomb attack thingy
you know which ones I mean
I think they are knockback immune during their jump animations? not really sure. It feels weird
vapid mauve
yeah, both the miniboss bloodless are immune to knockback during jumps
still pewter
I see
the small ones jump all the time so that's why it felt weird for them specifically
vapid mauve
yeah, I guess it would be too easy to just knock them away constantly. idk
they used to be completely immune during jumps so it feels pretty good in comparison )
๐ *
vapid mauve
yeah it was a bit silly
still pewter
I know I'm kinda spamming but here goes another one
in order to hit brimstones with bow/non-homing cast
you need to target their "shadow", not exactly their "body"
throws my aim off all the time on kbm
onyx badger
Are internal troves ever worth it?
vapid mauve
yeah
I mean, if you dont get hurt it's free money and darkness and sometimes other stuff
onyx badger
Seems rather difficult not to get hurt..
tulip timber
Depending on your weapon / build, you can either kill them as they spawn or get distance and kite-kill everything. Standing in the middle trying to smack everything down is a good way to get dead.
Better to lose a few seconds on chest clear than get hit for 30.
worn dawn
Hey man, I will defend my flurry blade Athena build with my dying breath
Standing in the middle smacking things is best strat
tulip timber
That's why I said depending on your build / weapon. ๐
vapid mauve
tulip timber
It works for some if you build for that. If you don't, you stand a good chance of getting stunlocked and hit by everything that spawns.
Speaking of stunlock, I think the purple hydra needle stun could stand to be a BIT shorter. But I guess I have learned to deal with it now, so it's probably fine.
I guess a good roguelike feels unfair till you learn how to cope.
still pewter
how do you not get stunlocked though
still pewter
I mean, you sure can dodge all the projectiles easily
vapid mauve
most people mash I think, but you can also just time it
still pewter
the frequency of projectiles is so high though]
tulip timber
If you kite them wrong they can get bunched and the window gets... very small.
Same with being on top of Meg when she does her purple spray.
I've gotten shotgunned by that for 1/2 my health before.
vapid mauve
yes, but not so high as to be impossible
worn dawn
Lifedrinker used to be sweet for that
still pewter
good point
next basin
what is counter attacking?
still pewter
you're asking about that mirror update right?
next basin
yeah
still pewter
upgrade*
next basin
recover health by counter attacking
still pewter
when you take damage, you'll have a very short time period when you can attack an opponent
that will restore some hp
next basin
ow okay thx
still pewter
if you're familiar with raly from bloodborne/dead cells, it's the same mechanic
next basin
i do not but i understand you
tawdry sleet
It would be cool to have a site where people could submit their favourite builds
like Sword with X keepsake and try to pick Y, Z boons
still pewter
that'd be neat. although there's not too much diversity going around yet. as in, not enough options/systems
worn dawn
Sword is def my fav
Got more than double the wins on it than any other weapon
Here, my majestic button mash build
tawdry sleet
idk what them icons mean ๐
worn dawn
lvl 6 athena buff on attack, and blade flurry ๐ Those are the key ones
Plus bonus 20% attack damage from my buddy charon
forest marsh
Mmmmm, jerked cyclops
still pewter
athena flurry build is really cool. think I've tried it once
worn dawn
Itโs a good time
tawdry sleet
Eyyyy first run of the new year and it's a winner
๐
Spear and bow now both on 3 runs
@worn dawn is World Splitter (single chop 400%) any good from hammer?
I've got no blade flurry option ๐ฆ
worn dawn
Iโve heard good things
Never really liked it myself
But thatโs because itโs the opposite of button mashing ๐
still pewter
it's very good
tawdry sleet
I went with 4 second crit after special
never seen that one before
which god's boons go best with sword?
I was thinking poseidon with the added knock back?
hard holly
Worldsplitter is probably the best hammer upgrade for sword
tawdry sleet
but I always love me some Ares for the after damage
hard holly
Also, Athena, same as all weapons
hard holly
Artemis for crit dash and crit dash upgrades
still pewter
hmmm zeus is good with blade flurry
hard holly
Though, in your case, its kind of redundant
I dont like the special makes your regular attacks crit upgrade
Special is really slow and knocks enemies back, so its kinda antisynergistic
turbid needle
Would anyone have happened to come across an item description for peerless parry (shield upgrade)
hard holly
The one that was removed?
turbid needle
I dont think it was removed
Its just the only weapon upgrade on the wiki we dont have a description for
hard holly
It was removed in the very first patch
Its in #hades-patch-notes
Anyway, it increased deflect damage by or to 500%
Not sure which
turbid needle
Oh it was removed? I had no clue
I suppose it doesnt really matter what the decsription is if its been rmeoved
hard holly
Well, it specifically worked with reflect, a property shield lost
tawdry sleet
Woo, another Hydra, first run without needing any death defiance
feels good 
bow with damage and crit is just ridic
ivory dragon
I'm guessing you've gotten quite used to aiming at the shadows rather than the head sprites haha
Bow is phenomenal!
still pewter
wow you scrolled way up to see that one
ivory dragon
Oh no you did it. You left me for yellow
ivory dragon
๐ค
keen tangle
@turbid needle I suspected it was removed because I did at least 30 runs without encountering it
hard holly
I mean, its literally stated to be removed in the patchnotes
turbid needle
Any good guides or tips/tricks to beating Meg? I get her to about halfway but never closer than that. About how many runs deep should I be before I've likely gathered enough boosts to beat her?
hard holly
Let her begin the chargeup for her dash, then move out of the way and hit her once she lands
Beyond that, dash out of the whip AoE, and stay far when she does the bullethell attack
turbid needle
Would you say people generally struggle with Meg to start because I feel like I'm not even close lol
split flicker
for sure
hard holly
You have to learn the patterns and get used to all the timings
split flicker
you'll get there
hard holly
After a while, she gets easy though
turbid needle
I'm at the point where I get to her every run and I usually have full health when I get to her, but she annihilates me
I've only faced her 3-4 times tho
alpine garnet
Definitely, took me like 5 or 7 times before I beat her, and I was very sure I wouldn't because I was on 1HP for the latter half of the fight
split flicker
she has a lot of health but you'll start to figure out when it's safe to attack her
i found that aphrodite's weak was really good when learning the fight
so if you can keep that on her you'll have a much easier time
turbid needle
I generally do best when I have apropdite's weak, yeah
hard holly
Also, she is easier with the bow than any other weapon
turbid needle
hm
hard holly
At the start
Since the bows optimal playpattern doesnt require any of the mirror upgrades
turbid needle
Bow is my least favorite (which is strange, because bow is almost always my preferred weapon in every game, it just feels super weak in this game)
I'm using the shield
hard holly
Shield is fairly easy too since you use the dash attack anyway
But Bow is ludicrously strong in this game
turbid needle
wait really?
hard holly
Aye
turbid needle
it just takes ages to kill anything. maybe i haven't got deep enough with it yet?
hard holly
Especially with mirror upgrades
alpine garnet
I found the fight really easy with the spear after getting the attack length upgrade + Zeus' primary attack lightning chain upgrade personally
hard holly
But even before that, it has the best hammer upgrades, and charge attacks are ludicrous
turbid needle
hm, maybe I'll spend some more time with it
alpine garnet
oh yeah the charge attacks with the bow are amazing after the hammer upgrade
turbid needle
just doesn't feel as smooth as the other weapons
hard holly
You do need to get the timing
But its pretty nice to go for dash charge shots all the time
turbid needle
actually, thus far, the bow has been the only disappointing thing about the game for me (i hit the crit every time btw, that's not been a problem)
i'll give it some more time
hard holly
Well its 40 damage baseline I think per charge shot
With the dash attack upgrade, its 70
Add to that the potential to do 300% normal damage, plus crit on dash attacks, plus crit upgrades
turbid needle
Dash attack upgrade?
hard holly
Triple shot
Perfect shot, long range shot and the close range shot are all more than good enough as well though
turbid needle
I guess I need to spend more time looking at upgrades because I have no idea what the triple shot is
I'm 18 runs in
hard holly
The one that causes you to fire 2 extra arrows at a slight angle
ivory dragon
Bow is a bit specific, but built well it's one of the fastest clear times atm I believe
hard holly
It or spear, yeah
turbid needle
i'll focus on getting more than halfway past meg before i think about clear times
ivory dragon
Hey no worries
hard holly
Yeah, anyway my suggestion is bow because its the safest meg-killer weapon
turbid needle
yeah after she wrecks me again cause i'm mid-run with the shield rn
ivory dragon
You know/care about any tips on her or are you just still getting used to it all?
Sorry if any of this was covered, busy day at work haha
ivory dragon
Huh now that you mention it...
turbid needle
folks have already given me some tips
ivory dragon
Alright =) lots of cool helpful people here
turbid needle
i was mostly just worried i was missing something cause i'm putting up flawless runs without getting hit right up to her
and then getting blown out
glossy slate
she punishes mistakes really bad is all
ivory dragon
Yeah probably just an adjustment thing. It's all pattern recognition and manipulation.
glossy slate
one slip up and you're getting wholloped
she has a lot of audio queues for her attacks if you listen for them
ivory dragon
Visual, too!
glossy slate
great for knowing she's about to dash but you can't see her because of the 497 thugs she summoned are on top of her
hard holly
Yeah, Meg is basically a gatekeeper
ivory dragon
I try to always keep her on screen
turbid needle
ohhh are there audio cues
ive been listening to giant bomb goty stuff while playing
ivory dragon
It gets noisy, so I can't rely on the audio
glossy slate
I do too but sometimes the adds obscure her
the most obvious is the charging sound when she's preparing a dash
it's like an engine winding up
ivory dragon
Meg is like, a bull fight by anology
Everything you do is in reaction, not proaction
glossy slate
you can even get wall slams if you deflect the dash and she hits terrain at the end!
hard holly
Yeah, when she charges up her dash, there is a pretty noticable sound
Her whip has a, well, whip sound signifying it
glossy slate
her bullet spam attack has a similar sound, just...inverted? I guess?
ivory dragon
And then if you are walking and she isn't dashing, let her catch up and dash away :)
glossy slate
if that makes sense
hard holly
And she usually has a voiceline when starting the pillars of darkness attack
ivory dragon
The real fun comes when you realize you have time to attack her between the aoe drops
Speeds up the fight a lot
glossy slate
triple dash makes it absolutely trivial too
hard holly
The bullet hell attack has a voiceline and a tell
glossy slate
although most of the time you can just walk out of the area
hard holly
Specifically that tell is Meg unleashing her frustration in a yell
Or at least a yell by Megs standards
ivory dragon
Thing about her bullet hell is you can just turn and spam attack on them most of the time
hard holly
She is pretty quiet
turbid needle
well thanks for all the suggestions, i'ma turn up the volume and mute my other stuff next time
ivory dragon
You will get it nin!
All in good repetition
First time I faced her I was bodied like I never played video games before
turbid needle
yeah she's embarrassing me tbh
glossy slate
it's less of a fight and more of a dance in my opinion, if that makes sense
ivory dragon
Spent the second run just walking around to learn her pattern without trying to attack
Oh yeah for sure, and that dance is thematically great with her character too
glossy slate
her dash is where she'll have the biggest openings but if you have the spear you can safely poke at her during the bullet hell attack too
hard holly
So that is why careless whisper plays whenever I beat Meg
ivory dragon
Doing a cast only run by recommendation without getting spinners for the fight was... Interesting though lmao
Nice @hard holly lmao
Never gonna dance again (until the next run)
glossy slate
Oh my god owen
hard holly
On a sidenote, it should clear a bit of save space in the files whenever you defeat Meg
Because you hit Meg a bit
ivory dragon
I'm done
ivory dragon
You see this is why none of us can escape hades atm
glossy slate
pay the court a fine or serve your sentence, your stolen goods are now forfeit
hard holly
I already served you 2 sentences
glossy slate
Then pay with your blood
hard holly
And they were both fine
ivory dragon
Technically the training skeleton is the real champion. Guy just respawn in the same room. No stopping him.
He could take the war of attrition through every layer of hades if he wanted
hard holly
Yes, but he aint got no bone to pick with the wretches
turbid needle
he just tryna get paid
ivory dragon
Alas the missing pickable bone
glossy slate
Is that why holding his tooth gives you death defy?
ivory dragon
Quite the joke to lay out on the spur of the moment
glossy slate
ivory dragon
What have I become
hard holly
I guess you enjoy being Toad all these puns
turbid needle
oh apparently i was an update behind, idk if that changes anything
i've been launching hades through a different launcher and I guess it just bypasses epic games launcher? weird
ivory dragon
In before all the layers of hades are just a metaphor for the number of launchers in my start menu.
turbid needle
i've been messing with Playnite and it seems OK as a launcher. I've ~2200 games on Steam and it handles those without a hiccup
hard holly
Im hopping I didnt scare Dr away with all these frog puns
ivory dragon
That does make sense though. Unless the game connects to a server the file versioning is usually handled by the platform
@hard holly dont worry I'm sure they shall hop back in soon ;)
turbid needle
well more i was assuming that the launcher i was using was launching epic games store, and then launching hades. but i guess it's just launching hades
hard holly
Unless these puns were the ones that could not be Froggiven
glossy slate
.......
ivory dragon
Cheer up, it's good to keep a leg in the race
forest marsh
Careful, or Dr. Badtouch will croak
hard holly
Perhaps they are a tad polarizing
ivory dragon
And thus, hades was born.
forest marsh
Does anyone know how tadpoles turn into frogs? I always thought that tale was lost
ivory dragon
It was stellar. Punbelievable even
forest marsh
It was very good, UNOvven
hard holly
On a sidenote, Im trying to create a new martial art
The main technique combines a kick with bad jokes
Its called a "punt"
glossy slate
hard holly
Aw, the poor Doot
glossy slate
you're going to be the death of me
ivory dragon
Well I guess it's time to die again
glossy slate
ivory dragon
Didn't even have to shop around for that one
hard holly
Not like you couldve boat it anywhere
ivory dragon
That's ferry nough
forest marsh
This has gotten decidely #off-topic-discussion 
hard holly
I mean, Charon is in Hades, and his shop is part of the gameplay
So I dont buy that for a second
ivory dragon
If puns aren't a direct topic of hades I dunno what is hahaha
forest marsh
Well, at least you know how to Styx to your guns
ivory dragon
Alright I'll steer this on topic: most satisfying feeling? For me it's dashing behind those big guys when they flash white and backstabbing them.
hard holly
Spear special killing 4 enemies in one return
forest marsh
That is quite satisfying, but not sure if you're talking about the Louts or the Thugs
ivory dragon
Thugs
hard holly
It feels ๐
ivory dragon
I don't know the names because I'm a bad person, but process of elimination leads me to say it's thugs.
hard holly
I mean, what can I say, the Spear special always has your back
forest marsh
In that case, it's quite satisfying indeed, except when you're slightly too fast and they turn around with you and still clobber you 
ivory dragon
10 damage feels bad :(
forest marsh
Louts are the Large Bois that charge at you
ivory dragon
Those guys when armored make me skittish
hard holly
Theyre called that because when you yell after being hit by their dumb charge, you are quite lout
forest marsh
They really round out the combat, though
hard holly
Still, they should not be a-lout to have armour
ivory dragon
Getting the aiming just right on a full room of mine layers is equally nice
Makes you feel like you should play the lottery
forest marsh
Spin-dashing into the middle of a mob and completely melting them all, armour or not, is probably my most satisfying maneuver
hard holly
Only it takes more than half
ivory dragon
Smashing down a pile of skulls in the same swing as all the spawned skulls is also ๐
hard holly
That truly fractures their formation
native wren
Anyone got tips for fighting Meg? Iโm on my 32nd run. Got shadow presence up to 30%, Infernal soul up to +3, greater reflex up to +1, quick temper to +20%, death defiance up to 3 (max) avenging gain to +15%, and I fight with mainly the sword. Cause I killed her at one point right after I died. Found it a tad unfair she died just after I did (the death screen popped up and then it said โfurry defeatedโ or smth like that on top) but I dunno shrug guess itโs part of the game
glossy slate
take it slow and pay close attention to how she moves
treat it more like a dance than a brawl
her biggest opening is the couple seconds right after she dashes, she doesn't move or turn for a bit making her open to backstabs
ivory dragon
Slow walk around, watch her while doing so. She will either a) prepare a charge or b) keep chasing you.
If a) calmly sidestep and get free damage on her for a few seconds and then leave/repeat
If b) let her catch up and then dash away when she stops moving to avoid the aoe
glossy slate
and Athena is your best friend, deflection ruins her day
while it's not my favorite, Athena's cast upgrade makes her dash attack a non issue
native wren
Thanks ๐
ivory dragon
I think the easiest way to mess up is trying to dictate the pace on your own terms, most of your chances to hit her are dictated on her terms
glossy slate
get divine strike and laugh at your damage numbers
ivory dragon
So be reactive rather than guns blazing
native wren
Lmfao aight thanks you two! Will set do that this run
ivory dragon
We gotcha back!
glossy slate
on a slightly related note, I'm trying triple shot for the first time right now
forest marsh
I'm so happy for you, Dr. Badtouch
ivory dragon
At point blank range?
errant narwhal
please refrain from making comments of a suggestive nature
dim linden
Best way first time would probably just go for chip damage while you learn her timings, only go in for dash hits and then dash out right after she does an ability.
errant narwhal
says right there in the rules to keep it clean ๐คท
worn dawn
I can vouch for just spamming Athena buffs for easily beating Meg
glossy slate
Athena in general needs some tuning
ivory dragon
That's good roguelite mentality in general. The genre is all about understanding room layouts, enemy attack animations/timings, and synergies.
So if you ever get stuck, do a run where you don't intend to finish - just walk around and dodge until you see how things behave
worn dawn
Athena dash especially helps out a lot
If you dash across her projectiles youโll send a bunch back at her face
ivory dragon
With perfect understanding, you could in theory do a boonless run
ivory dragon
The most I've done is the new save challenge but triple dash really spoiled me on pacing, so it's hard to force myself into slow runs
worn dawn
Iโm still just trying to get a bow win
ivory dragon
I think the slowest was my cast only one, but that's because I had bad rng boons
worn dawn
Iโve gotten so close so many times
glossy slate
I just cleared the boat without taking damage why is this allowed
worn dawn
Okay thatโs ridic
glossy slate
my reward was critical dash
worn dawn
Oh no
dim linden
That's satisfying, i'm either 100% or 0 on boat runs, idk why lol
ivory dragon
Hey welcome to the no damage boat run!
glossy slate
I think they need to take away power shots from the triple shot augment
forest marsh
Well, that run is finished Doc
ivory dragon
Dr. Badtouch now I feel less powerful. I wanted to be the only one with a perfect boat! How dare you!
worn dawn
Closest Iโve gotten was โno damageโ on my busted lifedrinker run
glossy slate
I have 5 levels in Divine Strike right now.
ivory dragon
I've finally gotten consistently good at it. The boat really teaches you not to crutch dash so much
Also eow
Lv5 divine
Yikes
dim linden
Well, I wouldn't say crutch dash but dashing without thought
ivory dragon
That's sort of what I meant like, you want to bait out skelly attacks before dashing for space
forest marsh
Level 5 is impressive, but depends what the base was to start with. Level 5 on Common would be ok, but on Epic would be ๐ ๐ฏ
worn dawn
Oh no
ivory dragon
Pom wonderful is a helluva drink
forest marsh
Dr. Badtouch's run is advancing by leaps and bounds
ivory dragon
Mmmmm hunter dash
glossy slate
absolutely disgusting
ivory dragon
Oh man rito pls I still a thing?
glossy slate
Nerf Ashe
ivory dragon
I worked for them for a year hahaha
glossy slate
oh boy it's fun on the Rift right now
worn dawn
Oh no ๐ Iโm so sorry
forest marsh
I feel so lost... I'm not hip to the jive of these memes
glossy slate
everything is broken and nothing makes sense
forest marsh
Ah, gotcha. Never played or watched LoL so definitely lost on me
If you don't win this run, Doc, you will feel a deep shame
dim linden
Looking at that image, you know what I would like? A way to remove boons for something. I always end up with a boon or two that do nothing for me that i'd like to exchange for something
glossy slate
Hydra down
this bow is dumb
I was oneshotting his extra heads
1500 damage shotgun blasts to the back of the head
ivory dragon
That's a paddlin
ivory dragon
Now that is interesting
So it's literally just megs room?
Wonder if there is some weirdness with the pathable mesh bounds or something
vapid mauve
I didn't test every wall, but yeah I tried a few and that was the only one
glossy slate
it only took me 64 runs but I finally got the last keepsake
seriously why does Poseidon never want to show up
forest marsh
The irony of getting a keepsake to make a god show up more often, but the god never shows up to begin with
I guess now you have to use it, just on principal, right?
glossy slate
I want to go for a max knockback sword run so yeah
just run into the center of a room and launch everyone into orbit
forest marsh
Nice, I had a similar run recently, though it ended in tragedy. Appropriately Greek
glossy slate
yeah I have no illusions about being able to win a run like that
but it'll be funny!
forest marsh
I've stopped trying to make builds when I play, and instead just go with whatever the first thing I come upon leads to. It's interesting, if not entirely successful ๐
I'll probably try to be more focused when the next major update comes out, though
I just don't want to burn myself out before the game's done
glossy slate
I'm trying to see how many weird effects I can find
Triple Shot bow with Poseidon knockback might be hilariously broken
focus on wall smash damage and just banish them to the shadow realm
"Draw me like one of your French girls"
forest marsh
I take it that this is somewhere in The House of Hades?
glossy slate
in the Lounge
lost rose
Wish i could read more of it than "GUF(I?)"...
glossy slate
alright I just went in for a bow run and the very first room Poseidon just hands me an epic Tempest Strike
Please give me triple shot
glossy slate
Beautiful
forest marsh
Now that I see this again, I recall that I'd seen it before ๐
Reminds me of Kris Straub's Cadavre character
glossy slate
no triple shot
my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
normal shot still banishes enemies off the screen
glossy slate
I'm not going to complain, if I get a power shot off even armored enemies end up going to space
I'm wondering if the knockback power scales off boon level
forest marsh
From what I've heard others report, yes, it does
glossy slate
glossy slate
I did get epic rarity
which is baffling in itself, because it was given to me at the very start, and I've never even seen rare from one of those
forest marsh
It happens sometimes, Epic too ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
How high are your +rare/+epic mirror buffs?
glossy slate
9% on rare, 0 on epic
trying to max everything else first
I've been going through the entire game up to today without avenging gain
forest marsh
I've been focusing on +epic first, 'cause why not 
I think I'm up to +10% on epic, 0% rare, max everything else except deep pockets or whatever it's called
glossy slate
Deep pockets is so good though
I usually start my runs with the coinpurse and having 300+ gold to spend on the first shop is just delicious
forest marsh
it's only what, +100 
at max? ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
forest marsh
Hey, I'm not here to yuck your yum 
It's nice that you don't take your finances for pomegranted
forest marsh
Your dissatisfaction is all the validation I require
glossy slate
Artemis is fangirling about Achilles
forest marsh
Artemis is adorable, I love her
forest marsh
I'll suffer no critique of her from those other shippers
glossy slate
.....alright I'll let you have that one
keen tangle
17 minute clear with artemis and ares... wonder what the speed run record is ๐ค
solid iris
Now you got me timing myself.
forest marsh
That time is pretty darn near the limit, as well. It's possible (based on that run) to get below 9 minutes, but not by much I don't think
And then this will all get thrown out the window in 2 weeks ๐
solid iris
Hopefully not my progress
forest marsh
I just mean the speedrun records ๐
solid iris
Uff dah. Got nervous there.
keen tangle
wtf how is 9:04 possible, blood gates?
forest marsh
Nope, I don't remember any blood gates on that run (though I could be wrong). Do you want the link to the video? I got lucky and watched it live ๐
keen tangle
yeah definitely
forest marsh
pallid lodge
Goddamn this lightning build.I'm in love
ivory dragon
that is way too much hp. Do you intend to share with the rest of the class?
glossy slate
Ocean's Bounty might be a bit broken
apparently that doesn't mean health restore pickups
that means centaur hearts
including ones you buy from the shop
empty canopy
And thus did Poseidon go from least liked god to fav uncle
glossy slate
that coupled with the sheer power of ๐พ ๐ช ๐ช ๐น
I was only doing about 200 damage a shot with the bow but nothing was able to get near me
and whatever did manage to slip through was only able to scratch me a bit
ivory dragon
I'll still abandon poseidon every chance I get. Too set in my ways now to make amends with the God of bubble baths and puddles
Plsnodrownme
ivory dragon
I like his dialogue more than most at least
glossy slate
he's a chill uncle
split flicker
i do like poseidon against like armored enemies
ivory dragon
I believe it enables wall slam damage on armored units too
glossy slate
it does
they're still immune to stun until you break the armor though, which is sad
ivory dragon
Yeah
My hope is that having more floors will give us a reason to really invest in some sort of cc like poseidon pushback more
glossy slate
I've been spamming the bow trying to get triple shot and poseidon at the same time
it's somehow turned into me going on win streaks without actually ever getting the triple shot
ivory dragon
Keep away extreme
glossy slate
Fire the bass cannon
ivory dragon
Lmao
glossy slate
I'm desperately hoping hitting them with all 3 arrows will triple the knockback
pastel jolt
dr. badtouch more like dr. notouch
ivory dragon
Same with aphrodite and weakness really. I don't know if I just undervalue it too much but at 2 floors it doesn't serve me much use
glossy slate
I've learned her cast is actually super strong
less area denial but it turns into a shotgun
ivory dragon
I'd probably pick it up if it slowed enemies instead of lowered their damage
The cast is good fun, I used it on a recent run
glossy slate
it does have good synergy if you can get the damage amp addon with a heavy hitting weapon
dash in, cast to make them vulnerable, then dash through them for a world ending backstab
ivory dragon
Yeah the damage Amp really does add up, but the base "they do less damage" loses value the more you begin avoiding damage
glossy slate
I expect it will really start to matter when we get to later floors
ivory dragon
Maybe
glossy slate
50% of 11 doesn't mean a whole lot but if they start dealing 20+ per hit
ivory dragon
The only way to make it stay viable is to guarantee you will take damage no matter what at some point, which I'm not a super fan of
glossy slate
revenge cheese?
glossy slate
true
even with all my complaining about them the bloodless have stopped being a major issue for me
ivory dragon
I think the upgrades are in a good place, like charm or the damage amp
Yeah, those guys suck until you get past their mechanics
glossy slate
I still get smacked around if I let my concentration slip but I've learned how to move around them now
glossy slate
they were run enders for me the first several times
ivory dragon
Took a few runs to realize they aren't as crazy as their jumping around would have you believe
glossy slate
it took me a fair while to figure out that you have to wait until after they throw to dash
ivory dragon
Triple bomb still tags me sometimes if they do it before they die
You can also hit the bombs back at them, but I don't know if that requires specifics like deflect
glossy slate
I've tried, you need deflect
ivory dragon
Makes sense
That run where you had like 300 health must have been
Super slow though
So many hearts
The unbreakable giant
glossy slate
it wasn't the worst
I had Hide Breaker so armored enemies were dying quickly
the hearts were giving me 50-60 health too so it didn't take all that many to start snowballing
glossy slate
I am going to have to stop using Artemis as a crutch at some point I think, now that I know what I'm doing Hunter's Dash is making everything too easy
glossy slate
I think this is the farthest I've had to go without finding the hammer
I didn't get it until after the murder boat
Alright
I finally got triple shot and Tempest Strike at the same time
now I just need something to survive taking 3 arrows at once and we can get to sciencing
it's better than I had imagined
not only does it launch them all the way from Tartarus to Asphodel, you get multiple wall slams per shot
rugged horizon
pallid lodge
Ye tried almost same build, such an insane dps there
nocturne cedar
is there any way to add keys or darkness to the save. i did a format of my pc and forgot to save it on my usb drive >/ and i dont want to paly from scratch ./
thru the files_
?
rough condor
That would be cheating 
Don't know if an answer to that question is allowed here tbh.
latent root
Lol i found weird graphic bug, and thought it was some kind of secret entrence XD, already reported it