Maybe his dash gives you a brief period of levitation?
#h1-builds-and-combat
plucky oxide
Isn't there a % trap damage reduction that already exists on another God? Might lack synergy, but there's plenty of crit boons that negate other crit boons.
tulip timber
Well, they overlap, not negate. But nothing is really just a better version of something else across gods.
And yeah Athena has trap reduction. With current levels not that good, but maybe better with future levels.
vapid mauve
lava immunity is not bad if you get it to high enough level
I could see apollo boons focusing on plague dot effects
tulip timber
With a t2 of mobs that die with excess dot explode and spread it.
plucky oxide
"Casts now explode when dislodged from slain enemies, dealing 65/115/165 damage to surrounding targets."
still pewter
how is apollo related to plague tho?
vapid mauve
apollo is the god of a bajillion different things, including plagues
night pasture
welp I just discovered that athena deflection doesn't work on the bone hydra's projectiles
that was unfortunate
worn dawn
Yeah, itโs a bit counter-intuitive
plucky oxide
I'm pretty sure pink is the 'you can't reflect this' damage type. Same with the pink crystals.
But they do trigger shield's retaliation!
tulip timber
Deflection does seem to give you additional invincibility frames against the additional heads though.
For main head just gotta let it do its thing and get hits in during gaps.
turbid needle
Any tips for Hydra on shackles? I'm close to losing my voice/breaking my keyboard because that fight is so crazy!
plush blaze
Shackles?
forest marsh
I'm guessing they mean the neck of the Hydra looks like shackles? 
turbid needle
The item you equip! Forgetting the name
oak wedge
shield, spear, sword, or bow?
forest marsh
Oh, Shattered Shackle?
I don't think that keepsake will help you at all with the Hydra fight
turbid needle
Shield atm
oak wedge
I strongly rec Ares buff on special, and the hammer buff where it returns after 1 hit
then just be vigilant about killing adds before they spawn
turbid needle
Damn i actually had that choice earlier and went with the Deflect after you take damage if i'm not mistaken. Thanks for the feedback tho.
carmine zinc
I just got to the end of the game with artemis cast as my main damage
forest marsh
Nice! Artemis cast can be pretty effective with the right supporting boons
vapid mauve
I'm in the market for a new challenge.
forest marsh
If you're feeling masochistic, and now that you've proven them viable separately, you could do a first run dashless challenge 
forest marsh
Maybe the next major patch will bring some equivalent for limiters/idols into the game to help with your challenge runs ๐
vapid mauve
true, plus I'll have plenty to do once the next floor exists ๐ฌ
worn dawn
Spear special only run gogogo
forest marsh
There's an idea... Spear special/bow special only runs
vapid mauve
I cant stand the spear special, I'll do bow special only though. Not so much as a challenge but just a demo for how it could be viable
bow special + ares would probably be free, but I'll try for + zeus instead because that will be more hilarious
point blank with double shots and lightning on every hit ๐
night pasture
once the hydra adds additional heads I'm not sure how I'm supposed to avoid damage, anyone have any advice?
upper right and upper left get me homing volleyed to death, lower left/right have small heads smashing, and the center has the big head smashing
turbid needle
I just killed it after 10-15 tries and honestly i dont see how you cannot take damage unless you're a god
vapid mauve
in the first two heads-phases there's normally a fair amount of space left open for you to work from, final heads phase I'm still far from getting through damageless
the very corners are doable but you need to be able to weave in and out of the purple shots
having a convenient deflect available to knock away the red fireballs is also a great way to keep some safe space open
worn dawn
Havenโt managed damageless, but it tends to be super low if I take Athena dash
vapid mauve
yeah, just having monster damage and burning through is the best approach
as long as you have some health to spare
night pasture
I'm not even trying for damageless, just trying to beat the thing, I get smacked around far quicker than I can kill it
I guess the better question is "when am I supposed to take the opportunity to attack the head"
turbid needle
Well i think the deflect helped me (after you take damage) plus i had 150 hp. you just need to take some hits on the final phase and hope to god you can kill them fast enough. the pink stuff is just disgusting
forest marsh
I've found if you can kill the spawned heads in 1-2 hits you're in pretty good shape and will have to do minimal evasion. If it takes you more than that, keeping calm and using your dashes strategically is necessary
turbid needle
@vapid mauve the spear special with distant memory keepsake and with crit and damage boost is awesome, i love it! kite for days
stable oyster
just kind of stumbled onto a revenge build with shield
night pasture
@forest marsh what sort of "good shape"/build are you talking about, there? I don't think that I've come close to that with the shield
plucky oxide
@formal wolf nooooo, the retaliation boons stacking is what makes shield blocking so fuuuun. I get it though. That's a lotta damage to be stacking up on.
forest marsh
I haven't played much shield, but it's well within the scope of bow/spear builds, and even sword special build. With bow and spear it's a combination of Hunter Dash, Clean Kill, and any other +dmg% boon. Max Quick Temper and Shadow Presence on mirror. Use dash-attack Power Shots with bow, or spin-dash with Spear
carmine zinc
I got through the hydra because my cast did like 250+50 and stayed only 3 second on the hydra
forest marsh
Sword Special you're looking at +range/dmg upgrade, and then whatever +dmg% to special you can find
Not hard to get 500 - 1000 damage with any of those 3 builds
plucky oxide
^^^
carmine zinc
the crit dash is good too
stable oyster
for me shield is the easiest weapon for just dodging and blocking everything
forest marsh
If you want to cheese enemies with shield, just invest in on-hit/retaliation boons and block enemy shots to proc the damage
stable oyster
I found that thunder works better
night pasture
thanks for the advice, everyone, I'll see how it goes
stable oyster
but if you take sudden rush you basically cant get hit
like I can be on the other side of the room in 0.5 sec with 3 dashes still up
and you also do at least 100 dmg to basically everything if you have hunters dash
ok run is in self promotion if anyone is interested
carmine zinc
i'll try this
tawdry sleet
I find myself always wanting Ares boon with the damage after attack
Seems so much stronger than any other boon
vapid mauve
Ares is the true hero of fresh file runs
stable oyster
yea but he is into murder
worn dawn
I always go for Athena boons, personally
They fit well with my โdash like mad and hopeโ tactics
glossy slate
my favorite is Athena/Artemis runs
forest marsh
I always thought Athena dash required more precision than others, since you want to time the deflects... Not really a dash like mad for me ๐
glossy slate
being able to stack a ton of damage and deflection onto normal attacks is fantastic
vapid mauve
zeus is my boy
glossy slate
I wish I could find him more but he just never shows up
vapid mauve
better sacrifice a cow at his altar
forest marsh
10 Tips To Summon Zeus To Your Aid โ #7 Will Shock You!
glossy slate
I've been carrying around a flask of ambrosia for like 10 runs now just for him and he's just gone T~T
vapid mauve
hahaha
vapid mauve
here's the bow special only run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt0ETFa2sRg
night pasture
well I still died at the hydra but got him down to what I hope is his final invulnerability cycle at something like ~25-30%
maxing weapon damage seems to be the component I was missing
on the plus side I've now officially died enough times that it cheered up a character
glossy slate
Zeus finally showed his face and I think I have my strongest run yet because of it
I'm entering Asphodel with a 120 damage lightning cast, +3 bounces, and double damage + deflection on my normal attack, with a spear
managed to clear Meg without taking any damage
true dock
Ayyy we did it, we're finally at over 50% of runs are clears
glossy slate
nice!
still can't get past that blasted Hydra after 35 runs but I have hope for this one
vapid mauve
think my first clear was somewhere in the 40s
glossy slate
do we know if switching to a different god keepsake applies its effect mid run?
I switched from the coin purse to Artemis after fighting Meg
true dock
It does! It's good if your'e looking for a specific boon to top off your build
glossy slate
yeah some crit is exactly what I need right now
true dock
I usually end up fishing for Artemis' Hunter's Dash or Ares' Curse of Agony right after Meg
glossy slate
with a high enough timer on hunters dash I think I'll break 800 damage on the spin attack
true dock
those are going to be some sick nasty casts too
glossy slate
oh yeah
264 and clearing rooms right now
sadly they'll drop after the next room
the spin attack deflects too so it's rinsing those bullet hell witches
seems to focus every shot towards my cursor
Zeus just gave me Splitting Bolt if I lose this I'm going to be so angry
true dock
good luck. You've got it. You can actually do a lot of damage to the Hydra heads with the chain cast damage. Just duck and weave.
glossy slate
yeah my biggest problem is the homing shots
once he hits phase 2 getting hit by one leaves you stunlocked for the next 5
true dock
Remember that you can dash over walls and that the homing shots shoot outward like a fan. After the first couple hit the wall, you can dash over the wall, directly at the Hydra to get some damage off while his homing shots fire out and away from you
just be careful for their return trip
glossy slate
failed T~T
nearly got the hydra but I screwed up and lost 50 health to a homing barrage
true dock
u n l u c k y
glossy slate
yeah I got greedy and chased him to the back of the room for backstab damage
forgot he fires instantly instead of winding up
although I've just learned some interesting tech with the spear
if you have the upgrade that makes your special deal 500% damage to armor, any bonus effects that your special activates also get the extra damage, if their armor is still standing when they hit
so Curse of Pain is slamming them for 240
sweet mesa
there is legendary boons??!?!?!
night pasture
I have come to the conclusion that clearly what I should be doing is playing the game better
I'm a little surprised I didn't think about "playing better" as a solution to my problems before
glossy slate
they seem to only appear if you've collected a large number of boons from the same god but they're all...potent
Zeus makes all of his lightning effects spawn orbs of lightning that bounce around the room, Artemis makes homing bolts appear whenever you attack or cast
forest marsh
The number isn't that large to unlock Legendary on a run. You just need a Tier 1 and a Tier 2 boon to make Tier 3 (Legendary) available. Tier 1 are your basic attack/dash/cast/special boons from a given god. Tier 2 are ones that only show up after you have Tier 1, and they increase the effect of the Tier 1 boon
night pasture
so, multiple boons from the same god, or upgrading one through the pomegranate and THEN getting more boons?
turbid needle
Wow I did not know this ๐
vapid mauve
I almost always focus on pom'ing one boon like crazy
I think many-boon runs are more fun, but isn't as practical in most cases
plucky oxide
night pasture
oh, I have a question, the keepsakes that increase the potency of the boons, do they apply on PICKUP, or do you need to hang on to them?
turbid needle
@vapid mauve same here, especially just going for B (the seeking orb throwing thing) gets crazy op
vapid mauve
on pickup, it increases the chances of rare / epicness
plucky oxide
night pasture
i.e. if I start with artemis and then swap when I can for another god, do my artemis boons get weaker?
vapid mauve
(maybe legendary as well, not sure)
night pasture
@vapid mauve very good to know, thank you
vapid mauve
yep, most of my runs I target the boon I want at the start then switch to a more combat-oriented keepsake after meg
plucky oxide
Check the wiki of each god to see what boons you need to add legendaries (tier 3) to your draw pool
glossy slate
I usually go for coinpurse to start and then switch to whichever god I need to fill in my gaps for the second area
turbid needle
Oh I kind of feel the violet crystal lasers make a tad too much damage - maybe that's just me though
vapid mauve
they are very punishing, pretty dodge-able though
forest marsh
They do a lot if you stay still, yeah
night pasture
the trick is to wait until you hear the charge sounds and THEN dodging
glossy slate
any revenge damage will make them basically nonexistent too
but as long as you stay moving they usually can't hit you
night pasture
but speaking of which, the coin purse, do you need to be carrying it when you DIE, or when you START the run?
glossy slate
when you start
forest marsh
I've had it work when you start
turbid needle
Ouh! Revenge damage is a good idea.
By the way has anyone come across silly pathfinding "bugs" for enemies?
vapid mauve
also worth noting: you can dash through the brimstone beam if you need to get to the other side
night pasture
that's also very good to know
glossy slate
but it brings money along from your previous run so if you died with less than 100 or so it's not really worth
forest marsh
Yes, pathfinding bugs have been reported several times
night pasture
I've noticed thief pots get stuck
forest marsh
The devs are aware
turbid needle
ah @forest marsh thanks!
Yes, thief pots keep "hiding" (getting stuck) in corners I believe
glossy slate
if you have the Zeus revenge damage they'll oneshot themselves on contact it's hilarious
vapid mauve
on coin purse: you equip it before the start of your run and up to 200 from the previous will carry over (even if you werent using it on the previous run)
turbid needle
and the big ones (especially in the first few rooms) have difficulties getting to you when you are on the exact opposite side of a pit
night pasture
yeah, I got that entirely backwards, I think they updated the description, but it's still unclear, IMO
turbid needle
Oh and one question! Are the picture for Artemis and Sisyphos still placeholders?
vapid mauve
several keepsakes could use description work
forest marsh
The pots aren't getting stuck, they are intentionally hiding from you
vapid mauve
yeah, all the hooded figures are placeholders
forest marsh
Yes, all hooded portraits are placeholders
glossy slate
yeah the pots seem to place 8 mines maximum and then hide in a corner
night pasture
@forest marsh tomato tomato, but I mean bouncing yet "wedged"
turbid needle
@glossy slate I've noticed. Feels kind of ... lackluster if you ask me
forest marsh
Oh, interesting... I haven't come across that
turbid needle
especially if you compare them to the big chargers and violet crystal ones. Power level seems way off. The bomb ones are just a nuisance. Never got damaged by them - like ever.
glossy slate
if you trigger a mine manually they'll come out of hiding to place a new one after a couple seconds
night pasture
it's very possible it's something they fixed, too, I haven't played since the beginning of december and there were a couple ofpatches since then
turbid needle
I'd prefer them trying to actively sabotage me ๐
vapid mauve
place 8 mines -> run in for suicide attack
vapid mauve
yes
turbid needle
There should be a place for that in the lexicon
they don't even exist as an enemy type so far
turbid needle
Seriously? Where though? ๐ฎ
Ah I see! I thought they'd appear as soon as I encounter them! My bad!
forest marsh
They're called Voidstones if you want a name right now, though
turbid needle
Thanks! Yeah the voidstones were really confusing to me - I was certain they'd do an aoe stun or similar - just judging from the appearance of their attack. Then I noticed that sometimes enemies had shields when they spawned with voidstones around so I've guessed that they do make shields instead
So when they do the AoE thingy, they give any enemies in their proximity shields, yeah?
vapid mauve
yes
turbid needle
Okay!
vapid mauve
damage will interrupt them from doing so, but only if they are unarmored (like other enemy attacks)
turbid needle
I just realize, is the yellow health bar armor?
vapid mauve
yexzs
turbid needle
Damn
๐
I did not realize that to be honest. I'd love a visual representation for that, I just guessed those enemies have "two " lifebars as they are "elite mobs".
Might be only me though who struggled with realizing that. I wonder if that could be changed by displaying it differently. That there are 2 overlapping healthbars is kind of a weird way to show armor. Maybe having those enemies actually wear armor in "armor mode" and then lose it and display their actual health bar would make it work better for me. Lots of work though
forest marsh
I'm pretty sure it covers the armor in some tutorial thing, doesn't it? Or am I misremembering that?
turbid needle
Yeah I just assumed that menas they are "elite" as they have that little skeleton icon
Tutorial thing? Am I missing something? Skelly surely doesn't mention it, he should though maybe
vapid mauve
not that I recall
forest marsh
I could be mistaken
turbid needle
hmm I see! Would be nice to actually ask skelly about certain things!
vapid mauve
oh yeah, he does have various random tips
forest marsh
Maybe later in development they'll add an interactive dialog menu with Skelly 
that covers tips and whatnot
forest marsh
By all means!
night pasture
do you think it would be overkill if, after clearing a room, they had little icons on the HUD somewhere that gave an indication of what interactables/doors were available?
I understand I need to take responsibility for myself but I only just noticed a certain asphodel layout had a 3rd exit
turbid needle
@night pasture Hmm. I don't know. Maybe if you can toggle it with a button?
forest marsh
That's been suggested in feedback (either new or old, can't recall) - maybe do a quick search and give a thumbs up?
Looks like Skyleaf posted about it on Dec 22, if that helps you find it
forest marsh
You're welcome!
turbid needle
Gave it a thumbs up too
night pasture
as beautiful as it is the art style can easily hide things - I didn't even realize stashes were an activity until my 3rd or so run
forest marsh
Ha ha yeah, if you aren't standing by them when they unlock it might not be obvious
forest marsh
The Infernal Troves were something that I hated and avoided at first, but as I got better I started taking them more
turbid needle
Stashes = infernal troves?
glossy slate
yeah
turbid needle
Do the troves always give money btw?
glossy slate
the chests
night pasture
yes, I think so, sorry, I didn't remember the proper name
glossy slate
they always give money, and there's a chance for extra loot
turbid needle
Did it once, lost waaaay too much health ๐
vapid mauve
yeah it's fun
night pasture
money, darkness, and possibly ambrosia - the better you do, the bigger the reward tier
vapid mauve
think you can get keys too
forest marsh
Yup
glossy slate
I got a key, pom, and a bottle of ambrosia out of a single chest a few runs back so there doesn't seem to be a limit
vapid mauve
I broke 100 gold on one of them, I forget which strat I was running at the time
turbid needle
Zeus + B (orb) upgraded a couple times is pretty powerful
One button press kills the screen pretty much
glossy slate
I kinda wish getting a god effect on one of your abilities wouldn't lock it out of other god pools
glossy slate
say you get the poseidon knockback on your normal attack
turbid needle
I am learning way too much right now. I have no idea how I missed all of that
forest marsh
Yeah, you can only have one god's boon on your base abilities
glossy slate
you can no longer get normal attack mods from another god
turbid needle
Can I actually reject a god's boon then?
forest marsh
Base abilities being Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash
night pasture
I literally did not realize that myself and I've been playing this game since release day
forest marsh
You can't reject boons (yet), no
turbid needle
Would be rude too ๐ Don't think that's something zeg'd doo
glossy slate
on some gods there's not really an issue there, but it really hurts if you get Ares or Athena late in the run
vapid mauve
yeah of course ill take your boon, put it on my cast pls, I promise i'll use it lots ๐
glossy slate
Ares is fantastic, and getting deflect on a normal attack is borderline broken
forest marsh
They all have their uses, depending on your playstyle and current build 
night pasture
what IS the red gem that the cast throws supposed to be?
or is it just some red gem
forest marsh
It's a "Bloodstone" but it's not really explained
turbid needle
Ouuh good question @night pasture
glossy slate
conversely, Poseidon knockback on a normal attack is also fantastic, but he breaks some weapons
turbid needle
I do agree with the feedback that switching weapons after Meg would be cool
forest marsh
I think it has something to do with Zagreus' eye, though
night pasture
I'm sure they'll fill it in
turbid needle
Oh yeah! Definitely! Good idea
I love using the shield in Tartarus. But in the next stage I keep throwing it into the nothingness and keep running in panic till it comes back ๐
glossy slate
Seriously if you accidently put knockback on the spear special you'll end up killing yourself with it
vapid mauve
I like the swirly red around his arm on the main title screen for the cast
vapid mauve
I think it's funny as is
glossy slate
it's based on point of impact instead of where you're standing
turbid needle
is it actually possible to finish the game at this point btw? (don#t wanna look at spoilers, only defeated meg so far)
forest marsh
I mean, it's in the direction of attack, and the direction on return is towards you so... working as intended
glossy slate
you can save it if you get the explosion on spear throw though
vapid mauve
there is currently an end though
turbid needle
okay thanks man @vapid mauve that's enough info for me :3
glossy slate
then it's kinda hilarious
turbid needle
I don't get the spear so far. Feels clunky
forest marsh
The next major release in a couple weeks will probably have a new area, but that's just speculation
vapid mauve
love the spear
turbid needle
I'd love more weapons.
glossy slate
the spear became my favorite after I learned how to use it
forest marsh
@turbid needle Try charging the spin at a safe distance and then dashing towards an enemy
vapid mauve
ended
glossy slate
max charge the spear does insane damage and really good range
turbid needle
I do realise more weapons is a lot of work though! All the visuals for each different god makes for lots of work by itself
tulip timber
That's not a bad gap between patches, especially content patches.
turbid needle
I'm not very well versed in typical early-access games. but this doesn't feel like one if you ask me
Except for the couple placeholder images - I'd never have guessed
turbid needle
Didn't encounter one bug (well except for the pathfinding thingy of giants)
tulip timber
Hopefully Activision or EA doesn't buy them.
forest marsh
There are some telling things, like unfinished assets, locked lore and narrative elements, short play available... But the game as a whole feels very good, especially after the first few patches they did post-release to Early Access
turbid needle
I believe SGG have enough integrity to not mess up in general
I'll check out the patch notes then!
forest marsh
There were some very broken things (balance-wise) when it first released ๐
turbid needle
I'm sure there were! Like what if you care to elaborate?
forest marsh
I'm looking at you, Shield
glossy slate
I wish I had gotten in to see the lifesteal builds, that sounded like good fun
forest marsh
Shield used to have native deflect on Bull Rush charging, so you could just stand in a corner and deflect all attacks to kill enemies without doing anything
turbid needle
I do kind of feel that there is kind of a gap between the visual representation of enemies though :] Anyone else got this feeling? Like the giants look amazing! They have this translucent colourful style - kind of like the hercules disney movie. Then you have those weird skeleton heads, that are just a bit too comically strangei f you ask me
glossy slate
oof
tulip timber
I bet they get some very good data from the anonymous info streams. Also, if you haven't, make sure it's on. That'll get more and more important as you get into minor tweaking territory.
turbid needle
Making sure it's on, thanks Dan!
unreal timber
so what is the benefit of the sword? it only has 2 attacks and is low damage
vapid mauve
it's really cool looking
unreal timber
lol
turbid needle
The sword with a couple boons is pretty decent
forest marsh
It's just a different playstyle ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
vapid mauve
nice and mobile, you can take swings without slowing much at all, which is great with hit and run tactics
turbid needle
I liked the flurry attack, the "world splitter" (400% damage) wasn't too good if you ask me
tulip timber
Different cone of effect. Medium reach. Different amounts of knockback / stagger.
turbid needle
So far for me it's been Shield > Sword > Bow > Spear
forest marsh
I would go Bow > Spear > Shield = Sword for my own experience, but that's just my playstyle
tulip timber
Bow beats all. I don't have a second favorite yet.
Except maybe bow with different boons.
vapid mauve
I've still not finished a run with the shield ๐ค
glossy slate
world splitter is top tier if you can get crits going on it
plucky oxide
sword is my preferred melee weapon. feels very active, with stuff you constantly should be doing. special is a fun burst dps at an end of a combo. I've been trying to go for runs where i dont just stack one ability. with sword, it feels very comfortable to rely on all of your tools. instead of spear, which is just charge attack + dash OR special spam. Ofc sword suffers from special spam as well.
glossy slate
but that's a big if
turbid needle
Bow is fun! Definitely liked it - the special is just... lame though if you ask me
glossy slate
sword is definitely the most well rounded though
turbid needle
Sword special felt a tad too strong.
tulip timber
Oh, yeah, bow is not about the special.
turbid needle
Hahaha the shield emoji ๐
vapid mauve
but yah it's not very good
glossy slate
I can never get that blasted bow special working properly
worn dawn
Iโm so bad with bow in general
forest marsh
Bow special to me works if you're doing Ares curse damage or doing point blank shots with it
worn dawn
By far my worst weapon
tulip timber
It roots you too long, doesn't do much damage, and doesn't stagger.
turbid needle
It helped me tremendously to constantly dash with the bow
glossy slate
if there wasn't that massive delay after firing maybe but
tulip timber
^ Bow special.
glossy slate
exactly
plucky oxide
Bow special and Athena are strong pairing.
forest marsh
Bow and dash are meant for each other
turbid needle
Oh that's a good one! Thanks pause!
glossy slate
everything and Athena is a strong pairing
tulip timber
Yeah, not saying it can't be a good utility ability with the right boon.
vapid mauve
I was doing nice damage with zeus on my bow special run
turbid needle
Oh one question btw. The fight against Meg takes me ages everytime
tulip timber
It's just never going to be more than circumstantial.
I cannot see making a special-focused bow build.
vapid mauve
it will go faster as you find better builds and get more comfortable with when to dodge / when to attack
forest marsh
Flameberger just did a Bow Special run, Dan ๐ Video is further up the chat ๐
vapid mauve
it wasnt good, but it worked
turbid needle
I see
vapid mauve
and it was fun
tulip timber
Haha. I'm sure it's possible, but seems like it's starting to get into "self-created achievement" territory. ๐
forest marsh
Definitely
plucky oxide
If you want to get used to aggressive play, take artemis' dash boon and learn how to play with dodges instead of just relying on it to kite around enemies. when you start moving in on the enemy and using your dash to dodge WHILE staying in, then you'll see Meg start to get chewed down quicker.
tulip timber
I'm not bored enough with the game yet to start trying to make it frustrating.
vapid mauve
yeah, once you get to the end of the available content it's a good way to stay busy
turbid needle
Oh! One thing. The passive bonus you can get from giving characters ambrosia... Is there a way to deselect it?
forest marsh
The Keepsake?
tulip timber
I do not think you can ungift ambrosia.
vapid mauve
"gimme that back"
forest marsh
You can't unequip it without equipping another one, no
turbid needle
I don't think there is right? I first got the bracelets of Archilles and I couldn't un equip the keepsake
I think there should.
tulip timber
Oh, if that's the only one you have, maybe.
vapid mauve
true
turbid needle
Might be something for feedback ๐
Yeah it was the only one and that kind of sucked ๐
plucky oxide
indeed
vapid mauve
you can switch to others once you have them, but yeah no un-equip that I know of
forest marsh
I think that's already in feedback... If not the current one, then the old one
turbid needle
I was genuinely surprised I couldn't unequiop it!
forest marsh
It's definitely been mentioned before, I know that much
turbid needle
okay thanks
forest marsh
Cerberus is probably best for new players to start with as a Keepsake
tulip timber
Honestly, that's what I meant, but I had a mild stroke.
tulip timber
I was like "The dog. Charon."
plucky oxide
cerberus is nice and simple. i used that a lot.
vapid mauve
yah, that was my go-to for awhile
turbid needle
Dusa is the best so far ๐
vapid mauve
turbid needle
They are really good at making lovable side characters!
forest marsh
You missed the mod-dusapocalypse, I'm guessing?
tulip timber
Dusa and Meg both are a lot of fun.
turbid needle
Also I'm glad Zag isn't maximum edgy so far
Yes I litereally just joined here ๐ Please do tell me about it!
vapid mauve
yah zags a cool dude
plucky oxide
Sisyphus is my favorite. A lovely take on a rather sinister man.
forest marsh
All the mods changed their names to puns ending in -dusa for a few days
turbid needle
haha thats cute :9
tulip timber
There are some nice touches deeper into the dialogue trees.
Giving ambrosia to people is the main thing I'm focused on now.
turbid needle
Sisyphus is one lazy fella - He keeps telling me he is taking a break. Man I've been there - he be procrastinating his butt off. Fair game though, I'd probably do the same thing if it was my job to just roll that boulder up and down.
vapid mauve
not his fault none of the furies are doing their jobs
turbid needle
Furries? ๐
vapid mauve
forest marsh
Meg's trying so hard Flameberger. Why you gotta get down on her 
tulip timber
Like, with ambrosia, they are basically telling me "Hey, you can get more lore by clearing this room and ignoring something that will help your run." And I'm like RUUUUUUUNE.
vapid mauve
my b meg
turbid needle
I was kind of confused with Zag and Charons interaction to be honest. I wasn't sure if Zag is sarcastic with him or not. Then once you give him ambrosia you realise Charons just another chewbacca.
vapid mauve
the other ones though aren't doing anything
forest marsh
Dan same... same
turbid needle
Haha that is very true ๐ Maybe ambrosia shouldn't be rewarded like the other things?
forest marsh
The dialog in the game is so well written 
turbid needle
Like you shouldn't have to choose a room for ambrosia. Maybe if you clear a room without getting damage 3 times in a row or something like that? Dunno
Choosing Ambrosia actively sabotages your own run.
vapid mauve
I think its alright, you will get plenty in cases where you have no cjoice, and it's no different than being forced to get darkness or keys which also dont help that run
forest marsh
I wouldn't be surprised if they alter the relationship system towards Full Release. My feeling is that right now it's easy to unlock so that the scenes can be tested for bugs easier
ivory dragon
Don't need much to complete a run tbh, but I could see it being more of a rare spawn in room, sort of like golden vases
forest marsh
Just speculation, of course
turbid needle
Oh can someone explain the warp holes to me?
Blood gates?
like do I skip a couple levels?
forest marsh
The Blood Gates are kind of not worth it right now unless you're speedrunning or reeeally don't want the boon offered in the next room
turbid needle
It just seems like a bad deal for me
forest marsh
As far as I know you "skip" one room
turbid needle
I'd like the blood gates to skip several rooms
plucky oxide
but they're pretty :V
turbid needle
so I can use them if I wanna get to the rest of the content faster or something ๐
forest marsh
The devs are also aware that the Blood Gate rewards are kinda busted right now too. They mention it in the noclip documentary, which you should check out if you haven't already!
ivory dragon
Most rogue lites have full level skips that give you some entry gear. Would be nice for that to be in hades later on.
turbid needle
Have the noclip doc saved!
I feel it's kind of hardcore that you have to start allover again. I was very sure there'd be a portal after I've beaten Meg! My gf who was playing with me (first roguelike for her) was very demotivated to continue playing because she had such a hard time getting there in the first place
tulip timber
Is there any way to share an image / if I share a link will I get in trouble.
forest marsh
Ah, yeah, kind of the nature of roguelikes/roguelites though
turbid needle
I'm fine with doing it all over again, but I think a couple people, especially the ones without roguelike experience might not be
ivory dragon
Well right now it's technically just 2 floors we have, so isn't that big a deal
forest marsh
You can post links no problem
As long as they don't violate the server rules re: content
ivory dragon
And yeah I guess if you don't have rogue lite experience the whole starting over thing is pretty foreign
vapid mauve
accurate
turbid needle
Haha that is perfect! ๐
forest marsh
I speculated a while ago that they might have a secondary home base that you'd spawn in when you make it out of the Underworld, but who knows ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
turbid needle
She was very fine with the starting over thing (as it fit the narrative right) but she was jsut surprised that she had to beat meg over and over again
ivory dragon
Usually when a new rogue lite comes out lots of feedback comes in from non rl players asking for save points, which breaks the genre completely
turbid needle
I'd be fine with both? Like Crypt of the necrodancer
Had a "All levels" mode, as well as each level by itself
ivory dragon
I'd probably stop playing if it had actual save points. Level skips with some challenge incentive id be down for
turbid needle
Yeah something like that maybe
night pasture
well I'll be damned https://imgur.com/a/i2OqWGs
turbid needle
I wouldn't want the safe points my self.
vapid mauve
yo nice
ivory dragon
Wonrun is won! Hope I didn't jinx you haha
turbid needle
I kind of feel the Shield should return earlier if you throw it into nothingness btw
feels weird.
maybe by pressing it again I can "call it back"?
ivory dragon
Yeah the shield toss doesn't feel great atm for me
turbid needle
Na I love the shield toss in tartarus
but in the second stage, it's just.... not worth it most of the times
forest marsh
There's lots of feedback about that too, if you want to look for it ๐
forest marsh
They did already patch the shield throw once, but it's still kind of annoying
Are you pressing Ctrl+F or just typing into the base search bar?
ivory dragon
Any word on next weapons or are we still speculating?
forest marsh
Ctrl+F shortcuts you to search in the current room only
forest marsh
Just speculating on weapons at the moment
ivory dragon
Try aegis
tulip timber
The shield has things to do. Just deal until it gets back.
forest marsh
I'd like to see a whip, personally
turbid needle
nope, no aegis
turbid needle
Yeaah! Whip'd be dope! I was super stoked for that, I hoped I#d get it from Meg
worn dawn
DoT for days
keen tangle
I just assumed that the Blood Gates were a back door for devs to skip to later levels
ivory dragon
I demand a yoyo joke weapon :D
vapid mauve
type into the search in the top right, and I think there's a code to look in specifically feedback
tulip timber
I want at least one more ranged and at least one with sweet spot optimum distance damage.
plucky oxide
Whip that has a long animation on special, that hits enemies in a straight line, with a sweet spot at the end of it.
forest marsh
Axemt posted about it on Dec 23, @turbid needle
vapid mauve
in: and then it will prompt you for the channel you want
turbid needle
How'd you find it man
night pasture
lmao after an ares/zeus gauntlet there was an... zeus/ares guantlet
ivory dragon
Getting dead cell vibes @plucky oxide
forest marsh
Just searched for Shield and scrolled through the results until I found the one I was looking for
vapid mauve
"shield in: hades-feedback " like that
turbid needle
Hmm.
plucky oxide
I'd also like to see it have a hammer ability that rips out casts from enemies hit with the special sweet spot ๐คท
keen tangle
I want a hammer that destroys harder terrain faster
ivory dragon
I'm going to be cliche and say I want alternate weapon skins for clearing, like transistor blade sword etc
turbid needle
@forest marsh thanks! upvoted it
ivory dragon
Anyone just ignore gold chests? I never feel like I'm low enough on gold to need them
turbid needle
What about dual wielding swords? Didn't the greeks have that? Like "Kopis" or something? I think Ares has a weapon like that in his pic
keen tangle
@ivory dragon i get them every time
ivory dragon
Dang really?
forest marsh
I grab them sometimes when I'm a bit low and have a good build going
plucky oxide
I try and keep 300 on me at all times. In case I see the juicy 200 boon 100 pom shop.
keen tangle
@ivory dragon you can never have too much gold for extra death defies later from chests. and once you have keys/darkness/ambrosia maxed you have no need for anything but Obol
vapid mauve
I take them out of principle unless I'm on a challenge run
ivory dragon
Well atm I just pick random stuff and clear, never really needed anything special But if they have extra dark
Then I'll start snagging them
Thanks I didn't realize!
tulip timber
Yeah. Especially 1st floor, you shouldn't have much trouble with the chest, and it is free stuff.
ivory dragon
Assumed it was just gold all this time and was like.... No need
tulip timber
Those damn blue crystals on floor 2 sometimes make me think twice about opening a chest.
vapid mauve
the challenge is the real reward
turbid needle
Well ths kind of begs the question. Should they explain more things or keep it like it is?
keen tangle
half the fun of the game was learning it
vapid mauve
I've been fine figuring things out by experiment
turbid needle
Like the chest. Should it be explained first time you encuonter it in game?
forest marsh
I think they'll explain more as the game is advanced, but who knows
turbid needle
I agree, I'm not 100% sure everyone is like that though
tulip timber
I think the first time you encounter it you're like "Sweet, a chest," and then you die.
keen tangle
i'm just learning that there seems to be a scaling damage reduction number based on which room number you are in
ivory dragon
I'm used to rogue lites where if you don't have wiki up on monitor 2 you don't get anywhere lol
turbid needle
The question is, who is the target audience I think?
forest marsh
@keen tangle Really? I've never heard of that before, that's interesting
ivory dragon
Well, I assume somewhere between supergiant fans that already exist And rogue lite players, but not near the harder end
keen tangle
@forest marsh you can see it most easily with Ares' blade rift ability.
turbid needle
Because with Pyre I feel lke they tried to get more "casuals"
(don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly enjoyed pyre)
forest marsh
As far as roguelites go, I don't think Hades is particularly difficult. I definitely think they're trying for a balance of existing fans and RL players
tulip timber
This is a generous rogue-lite. I think it has pretty solid difficulty for first two levels. You cannot screw around and hope to get through.
ivory dragon
Yeah, hades is on the easier side. Took about 10 runs to clear hydra. But I've got way too much exp already so I'm biased
tulip timber
And the more generous the rogue-lite, the more you can try and self-gimp or do wacky stuff that is hard to win with.
turbid needle
Any dev knowing insides about Hades btw? What engine was used for it?
ivory dragon
@tulip timber really looking forward to some sort of challenge runes if they become a thing
forest marsh
I took me something like 45 runs to get my first clear, and I'm not particularly experienced at roguelites. From talking to others, first clear around that point is pretty common ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
plucky oxide
the same engine as their previous projects, I believe.
tulip timber
Wouldn't shock me. They've had that system in other projects.
ivory dragon
Isn't their engines just modified monogame
turbid needle
I think so yes
forest marsh
They use their own engine for all the games, as far as I know
turbid needle
I think it's a modified mono
ivory dragon
Well let me retract "just modified monogame" undercuts the work that goes into molding an engine to your needs
tulip timber
Well, you can only get mono once.
ivory dragon
Pffft
night pasture
ugh, I made the mistake of trying to get off one last cast at the hydra and then ate 70+ damage in one go
RIP zagreus
vapid mauve
harsh but fair
ivory dragon
And yeah @forest marsh 30-40 first clear seems to be about where my friends have all landed
unreal timber
is there a death counter somewhere?
forest marsh
Not really
ivory dragon
You get the success counter at the end, and then the room decor that shows total runs
forest marsh
There's a counter for number of Escape Attempts, but that includes wins
ivory dragon
Have to math it, but it's there
vapid mauve
the scrying pool in your room lets you see your attempt count, and after you win you get your win count, so you can do some math
unreal timber
ok
plucky oxide
I had a really low number of attempts before my first clear because of that dang lifedrinker upgrade for sword.
turbid needle
So I found a "MonoGame.Framework.Windows.dll" so I'm gonna assume it's definitely their mono variation
ivory dragon
I hopped in after the health thing was removed, sounded crazy
plucky oxide
healing for 24 was fun tho
forest marsh
I was around while it was active, but I hardly play sword so I never got to use it
forest marsh
Yup
plucky oxide
mhm
vapid mauve
that's hilarious
ivory dragon
I just use whatever gives me the dark - I'm a simple man haha
tulip timber
I've started doing that, after I beat it 4 times with bow.
Because bow is my first and only love.
ivory dragon
I just want bow to not be so married to Artemis.
austere pebble
@turbid needle yeah from memory bastion started with the XNA framework, which is typically consumed with C#, so it would be safe to assume the move to mono frameworks for more compiler control.
ivory dragon
But its fun
tulip timber
Bow also dabbles with Ares on the side.
keen tangle
I've beaten it with every weapon now ๐
ivory dragon
Grats!
austere pebble
@turbid needle probably more a discussion for #off-topic-discussion though
turbid needle
@austere pebble They have lots of .lua scripts though. I wasn't aware that mono dabbles with that. I'm a Unity guy though, so I wouldn't know. And you are right. Sorry for the off topic
ivory dragon
Xna was a cute framework. Opened up a lot of fast iterations
But yeah prob best not here :3
@tulip timber i always underestimate ares on the bow because I'm a pleb.
Poor poseidon is just perpetually going to be mad at me in double rooms
#priorities
turbid needle
I really liked the poseidon dash btw. Oh And Poseidon's design is great
Reminded me a lot of Bumi from avatar korra.
forest marsh
All the character designs are great! I wonder how many will get revamped like Ares did, though
ivory dragon
Can be nice to have pushback against armored
turbid needle
I really liked pushing them back into the lava in the second stage.
Ares has such a lovely design.
Aphrodite could be more naked.
ivory dragon
Lol
turbid needle
:p
turbid needle
๐ haha
forest marsh
I honestly think 
should be less naked ๐
ivory dragon
I guess I'll just complete the circle and be content with where she's at, fitting the role without being on display
Now we have a full range of thoughts!
grand patrol
good! and now we can put the convo to bed :p
ivory dragon
G'night convo
turbid needle
Yeah going to bed soon too ๐ night ~
ivory dragon
Dream of hydra trophies and completed mirrors
forest marsh
G'night graveto
turbid needle
Night @forest marsh thanks for all the infos ๐
forest marsh
Happy to help, and welcome to this lovely community
ivory dragon
This place really does seem pretty great. Hard to find anymore.
forest marsh
I blame the mods and the devs for fostering such an environment
rain axle
so did they nerf the damage values on zeus buff? I got epic dash at 36 damage ๐ฆ
forest marsh
I don't think so?
rain axle
Also zeus epic cast was 125 damage instead of 151
forest marsh
Nothing has changed on Zeus 
since December 13th according to patch notes ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
tulip timber
I haven't been paying that close attention to damage values.
rain axle
I know nothing in patch notes but damage is way down on zeus
tulip timber
Maybe that's more min-maxing I can do. But I'm not trying to go pro.
ivory dragon
I'm kind of the same way, only time I start looking at values hard is when raising something like crit chance
rain axle
reported the zeus legendary issue but still no fix ๐ฆ
forest marsh
36 seems to be in line with the values listed on the wiki I haven't taken Zeus boons a lot, so can't really comment on my own experience with them
stray radish
maybe you were just really unlucky?
tulip timber
Also, being able to do 36 three times a second is pretty good.
ivory dragon
I'm really looking forward to seeing how the boons progress over more floors per run
Nothing really impacts a run success chance atm, so it'll be interesting to see how much focus is put on proper building later
tulip timber
Think it possible they throw a weapon rack next to the relic rack in the mid-floor lobbies?
ivory dragon
Hmmm that could be interesting
tulip timber
Or maybe just grab a couple you can swap to.
forest marsh
That could be interesting, but I feel like it'd mess with your boon build
tulip timber
Spend keys?
ivory dragon
Mess with your boon build OR give you a chance to match your boons to a weapon if they weren't already
tulip timber
Or maybe that's a relic; if you have this equiped, you can swap weapons between floors.
ivory dragon
Might be too much control over perfect building long term?
rain axle
I force zeus every run and his epic dash was over 50 damage
just got epic dash again at 36 ๐ฆ
ivory dragon
I'm of the opinion "perfect builds" should be very rare
Always been more a fan of getting by on whatever limitations you have, rather than blowing through
forest marsh
Top end of Zeus dash should be 62.5 and bottom end should be 30 for Epic, based on the numbers on the wiki
tulip timber
So mebbe unlucky then?
rain axle
never seen it under 50 damage ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
forest marsh
Common has a range too, the Rare/Epic is just a multiplier on top of that. The multipliers have their own range, though
vapid mauve
neat
glossy slate
just learned a bit about the bow while playing around with it
starting a shot immediately after a dash cuts down the charge time
tulip timber
That it is the girl you never thought you'd meet?
glossy slate
feels like about half
ivory dragon
Yup
forest marsh
Yup, that's part of the bow dash strat that makes it so good
glossy slate
I need to respec into dash for my next bow run
tulip timber
I do some dashing around with faster mobs, but I really like just plinking at max range.
forest marsh
Now you just gotta get your timing down to make every dash-attack a power shot
glossy slate
it's so difficult to get dash damage on spear I never bothered
tulip timber
It's almost a thumb roll rather than distinct presses.
forest marsh
Dash damage is super easy on spear with spin-dash strat
tulip timber
Could be hard without a controller.
glossy slate
I run MKB so I have to dash and hit the attack button at the same time
which makes aiming really hard
ivory dragon
Huh I wonder if there is any data metrics on how many people use Co troller VS keyboard.
tulip timber
Ah, yeah. I tried keyboard briefly on this, Bastion, and Transistor.
glossy slate
wait, spin dash?
forest marsh
Charge spin, dash to release at end point
tulip timber
Controller is far superior on all Supergiant's games.
ivory dragon
I use mkb exclusively
glossy slate
giving me another 100% damage mod on spear? yes. yes you did.
forest marsh
Add some crit into it, and it's basically the spear version of the bow crit-dash build
glossy slate
I figured since the shot that comes out when you dash while charging the bow was unmodified then the spear would be the same
vapid mauve
mouse and keyboard here
forest marsh
I use controller, but I've never actually tried it with KBM. I'm just more comfortable with controller for this style of game
vapid mauve
honestly I cant imagine playing controller, how do you aim seperate from movement?
ivory dragon
Everyone will have their pref
forest marsh
You don't ๐
vapid mauve
๐ฎ
glossy slate
I imagine controller has aim assist
forest marsh
But you have auto aim
rain axle
controller is really bad
forest marsh
So it does it for you, kind of
forest marsh
It's really good for backstabbing with bow-dash
rain axle
well got the hydra killer zeus retaliation with shield
ivory dragon
Used to build arcade sticks for fighting games. Preferences on input methods are all over the place.
tulip timber
Shield throw is a little wacky with controller.
ivory dragon
Tbh if you don't play on a Wacom tablet you are doing it wrong ๐
vapid mauve
ddr pad hades
tulip timber
I say controller, but it's really just a bunch of bananas tied to inputs.
forest marsh
There's your next challenge run @vapid mauve
ivory dragon
I saw that video @tulip timber lol
vapid mauve
haha, I've met my match on that one
ivory dragon
I used a Wacom tablet in league yeaaaars ago when I was in the industry
It was.... An experience
vapid mauve
nice
glossy slate
Donkey Kong bongos let's go
ivory dragon
Taiko drum master with racing pedals
tulip timber
Twitch Plays Hades. No lag on type to command. Someone better at computers than me set that up.
vapid mauve
guitar hero controller is always a classic as well
ivory dragon
Oh wait hold up how did we not consider the holy grail of input design
The Nintendo power glove
ivory dragon
Hahaha
glossy slate
the true test of skill
forest marsh
Can't decide if this is off topic or extremely on topic ๐
tulip timber
Sega Activator > Super Scope > Power Glove
forest marsh
Precisely
ivory dragon
Let's make it on topic: if using the Nintendo power glove isn't a direct metaphor for being the son of hades I don't know what is
tulip timber
Feedback: Add additional controller types. Not everyone who buys your game is a KBM / Controller pleb.
ivory dragon
OK so, death boat. How would you change it?
forest marsh
I... wouldn't. I hope that's not controversial
vapid mauve
I like the murder boat
forest marsh
I don't have a problem with it
tulip timber
Is this the fire midboss?
vapid mauve
yeah
ivory dragon
Yeah
forest marsh
One of them, yeah
glossy slate
more exploders and less of those small skeletons
vapid mauve
I think it's wonky how a lot of runs you can avoid it but every now and then you get forced onto it (usually because of Charon)
but the boat ride itself is pleasantly nasty imo
glossy slate
For the love of Zeus less small skeletons
vapid mauve
ended
tulip timber
Sorry!
forest marsh
I think that's just the way Asphodel is designed with multiple exits in every room instead of one or two in Tartarus
tulip timber
No more than 2 crystal jerks per wave.
vapid mauve
yeah, it'd be cool if you had to pick from 2 bad choices though, isntead of murder boat vs regular room
glossy slate
I can live with the crystals but
ivory dragon
I like death boat, but it's such a spike compared to anything else on the floor
forest marsh
There usually are just 2, aren't there? Maybe three, but honestly it's so small I don't think the number of Voidstones matters since they don't shield each other
ivory dragon
Just feels a bit out of place in difficulty
glossy slate
it's so bloody hard to dodge when the bloodless are swarming you
vapid mauve
the key is to make asphodel harder ๐ฎ
glossy slate
11 damage on an attack that has no windup just feels cruel
ivory dragon
Hahaha I'd be down but then we'd have like 4 players lol
tulip timber
Boat is one of the places Poseidon boons shine.
glossy slate
Yes
forest marsh
There is a windup, it just might be hard to see in the mass of enemies
glossy slate
fair
ivory dragon
WTB high contrast cursor?
glossy slate
also hard to tell what's the attack and what's just them repositioning
forest marsh
Not a problem for us controller folk
vapid mauve
they have a lot smaller range than other enemies, balances their much faster attack time
tulip timber
I'll sometimes grab Poseidon cast or bow special just for boat purposes.
glossy slate
speaking of poseidon
I just got him for the bow, should I beef the special or the normal attack?
vapid mauve
poseidon special on bow is hilarious for just making everything gone
forest marsh
The boat battle is the one area where spamming dash is almost required, though
nocturne cedar
i love the game but i cant get far, i cant kill the girl i forgot the name off
tulip timber
Special. Save normal for Ares or Artemis.
ivory dragon
Meg
forest marsh
@nocturne cedar Megaera
glossy slate
๐ thank
nocturne cedar
oo she is hard
ivory dragon
Best bet is to go in without actually planning to win and just run around
Watch her movements
vapid mauve
keep at it Kini. She gives everyone (mostly?) trouble at first
glossy slate
Oh and it looks pretty too
ivory dragon
Observe enough and you'll know exactly when she's going to do something before she even animates
ivory dragon
Feels like a bull fight haha
tulip timber
Poseidon Bow Special is not the craziest knockback. I think that goes to World Breaker Poseidon Sword attack.
nocturne cedar
what is hte best weapon? for you guys
tulip timber
Which knocks one thing clear across the map.
ivory dragon
All basically
vapid mauve
bow is best, spear is easiest / my favorite
ivory dragon
Least favorite for me is spear but it's whatever
glossy slate
save your counterattacks for just after she dashes and just focus on dodging everything else until you get a good feel for her patterns
forest marsh
I agree with Bow is Best mantra
glossy slate
I like spear the most but its damage leaves a bit to be desired
tulip timber
Yeah, live as long as you can and learn as much as you can for first few Meg encounters.
glossy slate
Bow is easily the safest
forest marsh
Spear can do great damage with spin-dash @glossy slate ๐ 1000+
ivory dragon
I prefer mixing it up to sticking to one more than anything though, 2 runs with the same weapon is just not fresh enough
vapid mauve
or normal spear attacks with Zeus boon. flat damage + high attack rate
nocturne cedar
i raly hope this game will be multiplayer so i can play with my friends and kill it
glossy slate
don't tie yourself to one weapon
forest marsh
It won't be multiplayer, sorry
tulip timber
I'm rotating now based on darkness buff. Once I got bow I used it until I understood it and could win consistently.
glossy slate
unlock them all and switch to whichever has the dark thirst buff so you can learn what suits you the best
tulip timber
It feels the best to me.
ivory dragon
I'm still salty about the hit boxes on hydra heads but I really shouldn't be
tulip timber
I'm happy so far they have not included holes.
tawdry sleet
so it's not the best weapon for me
tulip timber
I hope they continue to not include holes.
ivory dragon
Shield can be pretty good in 2
The safety you get on aggressive dash attack pushback is just so nice
tulip timber
The only pits that injure you in this game you have to actively jump in, and they always have stuff in them.
glossy slate
get the Poseidon buff on the shield's normal attack and then laugh your arse off while launching everyone into the lava
forest marsh
I think the key with shield in Asphodel is just not basing your build around shield throw ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
tulip timber
I want that to continue.
glossy slate
shield throw for clearing out numbskulls and then forget it exists
tulip timber
Shield in Asphodel:
https://giphy.com/gifs/south-park-time-1ZUfbjSAnbjO
ivory dragon
You can still hear my first shield throw waiting to come back
tawdry sleet
well now I wanna do another shield run
glossy slate
I'm on run 45 right now
tawdry sleet
stupid game and it's too good I need more gameplay 
glossy slate
just now discovered gold vases
tawdry sleet
forest marsh
Oh my... I'm so sorry Dr. Badtouch
ivory dragon
Brax do you play many rogue lites?
glossy slate
tawdry sleet
This is the first one I've really got hooked on @ivory dragon
tulip timber
Speaking of which, is there any way to tell which things have gold in them in Asphodel?
forest marsh
Nope
ivory dragon
That's a really good sign then if you want to keep cycling
tulip timber
Thought not. Annoying.
forest marsh
Though occasionally gold urns will show up in Asphodel for some reason
However, the destructible terrain in Asphodel also drops Obol 
sometimes
tawdry sleet
I might go back to some roguelikes I tried and passed on and see if this has changed my feelings on them ๐ค
forest marsh
I don't think it does that in Tartarus
ivory dragon
I used to break all the structures for random gold but now I just call it convenience tax not to
tulip timber
I have seen that. Then again, noncollision doodads will come flowing through the terrain in Asphodel occasionally. It's a silly place.
tawdry sleet
What roguelike would I be best trying similar to this? Dead Cells?
ivory dragon
Hmmm possibly
tawdry sleet
I'm on 30 attempts, 1,881 darkness and 2 successful runs
forest marsh
Dead Cells is pretty good... Crypt of the Necrodancer is fun
ivory dragon
It's a different type of game but shares in constant progression stacked
tulip timber
Rogue Legacy has some similarities. A lot more pre-run customizing.
stray radish
crypt of the necrodancer is really fun, especially if you like rhythm games
ivory dragon
That game is a trip haha
tulip timber
If you like the bow you'll like Crypt of the Necrodancer.
If you can't get bow to work, you won't.
tulip timber
It might have a steam demo.
ivory dragon
You could play irl too. It's a rogue lite with only 1 life and it's always tuned to hard mode ๐
stray radish
can you explain why is that, Dan? o.o
ivory dragon
Haha
stray radish
no, why the bow
tulip timber
Bow is a rhythm weapon.
stray radish
huh
ivory dragon
Difference between timing dashes and power attacks and not is like... Night and day
stray radish
maybe thats why i suck at both
forest marsh
In Necrodancer, you need to time your attacks to the beat of the music
stray radish
XDD
tulip timber
And plan your movements.
tawdry sleet
hmm had a quick look and I have a feeling that's not for me
tulip timber
That's fair. If they have a demo you should still give it a shot. It has a serious difficulty curve.
Anyway we're off-topic.
tawdry sleet
Oh, I own it apparently ๐ I'll install and try at some point haha
ivory dragon
Hades update not too long from now too
tawdry sleet
back to Hades 
ivory dragon
The monthly updates make me feel like I'm going down a dark alleyway to get my fix at 3am
tawdry sleet
Is there a way to see detailed stats for your game runs?
rain axle
anyone else not being offered zeus legendary buff anymore?
forest marsh
Not at the moment
tawdry sleet
like times completed with bow, kills with sword, most used god etc
hoping there's feedback with something along them lines
ivory dragon
They have some very basic stats, some you see on clear and some in a well decor piece but nothing truly analytical
tulip timber
You can get times completed each time you finish.
forest marsh
Someone earlier in chat posted an image of them getting their first Zeus Legendary, if that helps @rain axle . I can't say I've heard anyone else mention having a hard time getting it
tulip timber
And you can get some idea of mobs killed with each weapon until you cap out the codex.
rain axle
I take zeus artifact every run and I haven't been offered zeus legendary in 2 weeks I get blank options or no options at all
tulip timber
Or you can do it the old fashioned way and take copious notes as you play.
forest marsh
Yeah, it would be nice if they left the count up instead of replacing it with [Entry Completed] or whatever it says
ivory dragon
Favorite non-olympian keepsakes?
forest marsh
Skull Earring, probably
tulip timber
Orpheus's ranged buff. Because bow.
nocturne cedar
i saved my content yesterday and when i came back today i dident have a save why
ivory dragon
I sometimes snag the extra 3 rooms halfway through if the altar has good options
tulip timber
Reset / check cloud sync?
forest marsh
Make sure your Documents > Saved Games > Hades folder is not protected so that Hades can write to it
ivory dragon
6 rooms of floor 2 getting %health back let's you get away with a lot of dumb
forest marsh
I'm pretty sure there's an entry in #hades-tech-fixes-old about games not saving, so maybe check that out too
There is no cloud save on Epic launcher
tulip timber
Finally got both posters last night so they can stop clogging my altar.
glossy slate
I would say the Ranged attack keepsake wouild be my favorite if they didn't have to be nearly off screen for it to activate
ivory dragon
Ah I wondered what the trigger range was on those
forest marsh
@tulip timber Now you can join the ranks of us getting only 2 options in Well of Charon sometimes
tulip timber
Yup, noticed that.
glossy slate
it's far enough that it really only works on the bow and the shield throw
tulip timber
Yeah, Orpheus range is pretty dang high.
But, well, most of my bow game is seeing who I can kill from off-screen.
At least floor 1.
ivory dragon
Speaking of range, the aoe buffs to the javelin throw forcing the javelin to stop in front of the first mob hit makes me sad
glossy slate
if it could be tuned so that the activation range is never more than the weapon's max range that would be great
forest marsh
Most of my bow is medium to close range, I'd say
tulip timber
@glossy slate Problem with that is cast.
glossy slate
okay frost if you have that buff you need to try it with Poseidon's knockback
forest marsh
If I can't get Triple Shot on bow I go for Point Blank, so that tells you something of how I run it ๐
glossy slate
fair point
tulip timber
Oh, my bow go to on hammer is the extra perfect shot damage.
glossy slate
same
tulip timber
If not that, probably armor pierce.
DOesn't help on bosses, but makes Asphodel much better.
nocturne cedar
can i play on to pc,s and save somehow so bought of them has the same saves
ivory dragon
Crit after dash is super forgiving on bow too
forest marsh
@nocturne cedar You can copy your save file and move it to another computer
tulip timber
So crit after dash epic / rare only lets you crit more times, but still 1 second duration at level one... bug or intended?
nocturne cedar
ok any programs to do that
forest marsh
Intended as far as I know
tulip timber
If you have some sort of cloud program (onedrive, for example), you can put the save file there.
ivory dragon
Well @tulip timber all I know is when I get that I can dash and charge a power shot crit every time
forest marsh
@nocturne cedar None needed, just copy the save game file for Documents > Saved Games > Hades
ivory dragon
Not sure if the one second is deferred or if I'm actually managing to just react quickly enough
tulip timber
Charge-release after dash is about .5 seconds for perfect shot.
Maybe slightly longer.
There's space.
forest marsh
Base Hunter Dash is enough to crit-dash with bow power shot, so it's not a matter of having extra time
ivory dragon
upgrades have enough time to trigger too, which is nice
tulip timber
I tried the increased bow charge time once.
ivory dragon
Oh man
tulip timber
Never again.
ivory dragon
The numbers are pretty but yeah I feel you
forest marsh
Yeah, it's not conducive to the general dash-attack bow method
ivory dragon
It's like your bow is being shipped 2 day instead of overnight
tulip timber
I care a lot more about feel in a game like this than raw numbers. Cause I'll play better and get hit less with a good feel.
ivory dragon
I'm going to call it the Amazon boon now, come to think of it
I can understand that for sure too, the value of being able to get in a rhythm is super underrepresented
tulip timber
It's how I play the melee weapons too, but they don't really lend themselves to uninterrupted patterns. Bow dash-kite can get real smooth.
ivory dragon
Chop crit is just... Wow lmao
tulip timber
The knockback on that with poseidon is wacky, and the damage is pretty good too.
Chop Poseidon Knockback is just "GONE." You hit everything into the fire all the time in Asphodel.
ivory dragon
hahaha I had the knock back on sword special for that a few times on troll runs
Enemies just become projectiles
tulip timber
Had one fight I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't end. I had smacked one of the blue crystals all the way to the corner of the map and it had to slowly float back to land.
forest marsh
Levishame
tulip timber
Poseidon chop with a couple upgrades 3-shot the hydra add heads.
ivory dragon
Aight I need to pass out. Adulting is the real hard mode. G'night friends!
forest marsh
G'night Frosthaven!
tulip timber
Agreed on adulting. No play today; grocery shopping, cleaning car out, and now my dog is asleep on my legs and I feel bad moving to the desktop.
tawdry sleet
I hate the hitbox on the attack anim for the weird zombie dudes in Ash
always feels like they clip me even after I've moved out of the way ๐ฆ
glossy slate
right?
tulip timber
You know what solves that? Bow. They never go into their attack animation if you're never there.
tawdry sleet
I also wish when I dashed through the big fat blob attacks it wouldn't hurt
but it often does ๐ค
vapid mauve
dash is tricky on where exactly you are invulnerable
with titan toppler moves like that are a lot safer
(athena dash)
tawdry sleet
is there anything specific that determines when a pool room shows up? the one where the drop is just waiting and you can heal up
forest marsh
Random as far as I know
I think it's always at the same point (room number) though
It just doesn't appear every run
tulip timber
That's interesting that it's at the same point in the progression. Is there any powerup that cannot appear in a pool room?
glossy slate
I don't think so
I've found everything from poms and health upgrades to Daedalus hammers
plucky oxide
i dont think I've found boons in those rooms before. has anyone else?
forest marsh
Boons? Pretty sure I have...
glossy slate
it's less common than ordinary powerups but I've found a few
tulip timber
Just wondering to potentially up the chance of getting a pool room if needed.
glossy slate
And that blasted fore boat needs fixing please
forest marsh
Fore boat?
tulip timber
Probably fire boat.
glossy slate
it seems to always appear a room or two before the midboss
tulip timber
Fire boat takes another life.
forest marsh
Oh, fire boat, I see ๐