h1-builds-and-combat

[vital night]

Use Zeus attack. It’ll give you a better sense of where you’re shooting

[wintry axle]

Aah got it. I was trying to do a heart rend run, i did clear the run but barely.

[errant walrus]

Does pounding wave work with tempest strike

[proper furnace]

What's pounding again

Boss dmg?

[jolly chasm]

It does work

[vital night]

Keep in mind wave pounding acts on your base attack damage

[silk kite]

k

[errant walrus]

Thankyou! Ended up clutching the fight with hades with an insane Poseidon build

[night thicket]

annyonne got anny good builds for the shield of chaos

[primal brook]

usually just dio or zeus on special and look for charged shot (with either artemis/athena/aphrodite on attack). If you're looking for something new and interesting Haelian did a chaos shield build that was interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01L35ttzVU0

[night thicket]

thanks a ton

[misty mantle]

is there a website or resource that lists ideal builds for each aspect?

[proper furnace]

Pinned messages here

[thorn ice]

What would you say is the best weapon iyo

[proper furnace]

shield

[primal brook]

Usually I preferace this question by "best at what": having a fun playthrough? at killing clowns? best conversation piece at a party? XD
But on a more serious note it depends what you're doing:
Low heat speedrunning is generally dominated by Beowulf with poseidon cast/mirage-shot and Hera (with aphrodite cast)
Heat is generally dominated by: Zeus-shield (explosive return), Rama (with twinshot/perfectshot), Eris (delta-chamber)
But generally all weapons are pretty powerful if you know how to use them.

[thorn ice]

ty

[vital night]

Zeus shield funnest aspect

[queen mural]

ok now im at 60 runs, best heat so far is 3. im not having much of trouble with this game except for the following:

• Exalted Greatshield
• Styx dungeons when I dont have Poisedon dash or cast

any tips how to overcome those issuees?

with the Bow i can deal with the Styx dungeons without relying on Posiedon boons. or with Fists builds with a lot of dodge. otherwise im free to the rats and the poison

its the part of the game where i lose most of my death defiances to

[spark kite]

Exalted Greatshields are difficult for everyone but the most elite players of this game. They become significantly easier to deal with if you have a piercing hammer or Zeus or Dio call, but they're still a pain in the ass. They'll get somewhat easier with practice though.
Styx Dungeons absolutely require some form of AoE damage. Some options include various weapons' basic attacks or specials; Zeus or Dio Call + Proud Bearing (or 2 Aether Nets); Hunting Blades; Splash Dash or Cast; Athena Cast; Dying Lament.

Obviously some of these options are more viable than others by virtue of being more consistent to get.

[queen mural]

I guess patience rewards the battle against shields

[spark kite]

That too, although I've been going for speed most recently, which adds a whole nother challenge to shields.

Dashing a lot and trying to get behind them has been working, but it's always slower than killing any other individual non-boss monster.

[queen mural]

yeah same.

against Shields and Theseus i found the Shield and just blocking and punishing works best

but its hard to be patient, i must dash

[spark kite]

Theseus has a faster turn speed than Greatshields. You can get behind Greatshields by dashing. The same is not true for Theseus in idle or charging mode.

Although if you're running a good build, you should have enough ambient damage to focus Asterius and passively get Theseus down to phase 2 before even finishing Asterius.

That is assuming no EM3.

[queen mural]

Asterius is easy and fighting him solo gives good practice.

Asterius once he summons his God powers gets a bit too annoying for me to fight because the screen gets really busy

[spark kite]

I never wrote and then deleted a message

[plain river]

I wasn’t aware Asterius ever got god powers

[full valley]

em5

[queen mural]

is there any form of a trainer mod?

[vital night]

god mode?

[queen mural]

the in game god mode? doesnt that make the game easier?

was hoping for some kind of mod that would make me and the enemies have infinite health

[vital night]

oh

🤔

[vital night]

if you want to practice an encounter, you can copy the temp_sav file for that profile, save it, and paste it back into your save data

[worn solar]

For greatshields generally you want to get close to bait their melee/lunge attack then dash forward to get behind them and wack em during their recovery

[misty mantle]

i tend to bait the rats out of the poison with melee weapons or just stand right outside of the range and hit them, if they are low ill just take a few ticks of damage to pop them. I make heavy use of my cast to help put out damage. Im not the best player, and ive done 10 heat with sword, 8 with the fists but im currently on a 15 win streak. What helped me with styx was i went to 0 heat, slowed them down and started to really try and figure out the safest ways to clear it. For the sheild guys I find the easiest ways to kill them fast is just to bait out an attack then dash behind them and smack the daylight out of them, very consistent method that has removed most of the damage ive taken from them. The gun was another good way for me to sit back and experiment with killing anything I was struggling with, learn attack patterns and ranges with it and I have cleared 16 heat with it.

[misty mantle]

there is a mod somewhere that lets you up the pact of punishment conditions as much as you want, so you can do effectively that and other cool stuff

dont remember what its called

you can prob find a godmode mod to pair with it

[inner obsidian]

does dashing out of the spin attack count as a dash attack?

[proper furnace]

No

[sweet scaffold]

How exactly do you use aspect of Hestia? Like constantly having to manually reload and stuff

[full valley]

special, reload, shoot, reload, shoot, repeat

dash when you reload

[spark kite]

Alternatively, Dash-strike when you shoot, Special while you reload.

[full valley]

haven't heard this one before, i am going to use this now 🫡

[inner obsidian]

what are yall personal fav keepsakes?

[vital night]

earring

[spark kite]

I personally love starting with Coin Purse when playing just for fun, bc it opens up a lot of build variety ^^

At the obvious cost of consistency

Also Lambent Plume is really fun

[vital night]

Pom blossom start has been fun too

[inner obsidian]

why is gilgamesh so hated?

shut up stickybot

[jolly chasm]

Because it kinda sucks objectively speaking

Low dps early and the dash is funky

[spark kite]

It's also just subjectively less fun than regular fists. The gimmick is hard to understand and even harder to use well. All the other "bad" aspects have easy to understand gimmicks that you can build memes around.

[clear crown]

anyone here knows a build for Eris' aspect ?

[tall totem]

Can't go wrong with Zeus attack w/ Aphro or Artemis special

[wintry axle]

Acorn

[plain river]

Shackle

[manic creek]

collar and skull earring

[manic creek]

i understand why folks dislike it but i actually find gilga fists more fun than the other aspects imo, tho it obviously depends on how you like to play

[inner obsidian]

my fastest run is 13:31 with gilga aspect

the 4 dashes is just so fun

[manic creek]

FRR

my fastest run is also w gilga iirc

~18 minutes

(i'm bad i know)

[plain river]

it takes the “fun” from functionality and then fumbles the rest of the letters imo

[queen mural]

thanks for the detailed answer. im now past heat 6 and styx gotten easier especially with poseidon boons or any AEO attacks.

Sone builds I'm still struggling a bit but its on me not having a good build that deals AEO

also am i missing something about Merciful end? 3 runs with Gilgamesh using athena/ares on attack/special and I'm still not getting it

[plain river]

Like

The damage? Because you’re missing divine dash to be dealing damage w/ ME

or the boon itself? Because that’s all you need, ares & athena on strike/special

[queen mural]

no i had divine dash but didn't get duo

which is a shame because i had the crit after deflect duo and zeus on near miss and with 5+ dashes i was getting insane amount of near misses 🥲

[plain river]

Oh yk

Gilgamesh is like the one case where reckless reflex (the mirror upgrade) is actually good

+50% damage and dodge chance after near misses instead of +1 dash

Between gilgamesh’s abysmal defense, damage output, and it already having extra dashes

It’s just more worthwhile

[plain river]

The only thing you did “wrong” in terms of finding ME was having a conflicting duo (Deadly Reversal) open

Otherwise you had just fine odds

[queen mural]

deadly reversal conflicts with merciful end?

[plain river]

Whenever the game rolls a duo/legendary boon it picks 1 from all the ones it could be

so if you have Deadly Reversal and Merciful End open, and you take an Athena boon

any time it rolls a duo/legendary it can be either of those two

practically halving your odds

[queen mural]

oh haven't thought of that. this sounds so good with rush delivery and hyper sprint

[queen mural]

so each god can only provide one duo am i getting this correct?

[plain river]

?

What

[indigo hound]

Have you tried equipping Hermes keepsake for the whole run with that xD ?

100% dodge chance to brrrr

[queen mural]

i didn't understand why ME conflicts with DR.

[plain river]

Whenever the game would give you a duo boon it picks from all the ones available

so

If you take an athena boon and it rolls one legendary boon, it has to pick from ME/DR instead of just ME

it could roll both as options but that’s significantly less likely

[queen mural]

i can get ME only from Athena not Ares?

[plain river]

You can get it from either

[queen mural]

because i rerolled twice on an Aris boon but didn't get it

i guess rng just didn't favor me today

[plain river]

sounds like it

[queen mural]

im gonna try ME on a different weapon next time. so far all my Gilgamesh ME efforts are cursed

[tight basin]

You basically have a 50/50 chance of getting ME when a duo pops up

It "conflicts" in the sense that instead of guaranteed ME it's a coin flip

[vestal sleet]

Any gods y’all recommend on eris rail attack other than Zeus? Zeus is just my go-to for it

[inner obsidian]

any % based damage is good because it stacks with the already 75% damage

so if you get lucky enough to get the best daedelus set you can deal insane damage

[proper furnace]

dio

[proper furnace]

you don't want % on the attack

it does 10 base dmg

[inner obsidian]

mmmmm

im dumb

[indigo hound]

Poseidon can be really funny

[potent tree]

Very smart for a pizza at least

[proper furnace]

if you wanna meme it do like ares ME lol

[inner obsidian]

best advice for eris aspect: just use hestia

[proper furnace]

(but if you wanna play ME rail seriously use zag rail spread fire)

[inner obsidian]

you make me feel good about myself

[indigo hound]

Listen ik all these other builds ar egood and more powerful and stuff, but I really really recommend trying Poseidon attack rail just because of how funny it is to blast your opponents all over the screen from a mile away

[proper furnace]

might as well do hidden rail for the og super soaker

water beam looks funnier

[inner obsidian]

oh my god.

ahem

[indigo hound]

That too but this is still insanely powerful

[vestal sleet]

Thank you all for the input!

[inner obsidian]

i have a special hate for the rail, because i spent a good 40 runs trying to get one specific daedelus hammer and i just never got it, so now whenever i use the rail I just feel a surge of spite

[indigo hound]

I used to hate the rail until I discovered Poseidon dash

[inner obsidian]

No no no rail is fantastic, I just have a bad experience with it

[vestal sleet]

I hated the rail until I re-mapped the reload button

[indigo hound]

After that I just used pos dash and turned the rail into a melee weapon

[inner obsidian]

aspect of hestia carried me on my first 32 heat run

(first and only)

[jolly chasm]

Best dash

[indigo hound]

Eris rail's special -> dash -> fire loop was so addictive

[inner obsidian]

My favourite build of all time is still the zeus special + charged volley

[proper furnace]

chat do they know

[jolly chasm]

That's so cursed lmao

The world if icd was not a thing

[inner obsidian]

I DO NOT CARE ITS FUN

ITS SO FUN

[vestal sleet]

I used to really be a fan of Dionysus special on the Zeus shield way back when, called it the poisonous dinner plate

[inner obsidian]

I have never ever done been good at making builds especially since ive played 200 hours fully blind

I dont know whats bad or not please dont judge me

[plain river]

🤨🤨

oh wait discord sent me back 8 years into the past

😔

[full valley]

@stoic steeple rocket bomb should help a bit with maintaining boost from special, use artemis, dionysus, aphrodite on main

lots of practice helps miles

and please only post in respective channels, i know im not a mod but that definitely does not have a spot in transistor chat nor high heat

special artemis or aphrodite, heart rend on rail is really good, delta chamber is very good, cluster bomb with aforementioned rocket bomb is also really good

i wouldn't worry too much, just keep pushing until you figure out a good rhythm

[potent tree]

I think the 🦒 was actually talking about Hades 2!

[full valley]

OHHHH LMFAO

[stoic steeple]

Hey

I’m goin into h1 mode

What’s goin on?

[willow fossil]

What does 200 hours fully blind mean

[plain river]

Without coming the community

Or looking things up

[willow fossil]

I guess

[plain river]

That’s typically what it means

[queen mural]

dunno how optimal but deflect on Lucifer special is hilarious

[queen mural]

did an Achilles run focused on True shot, gotta say, I should have taken more Artemis boons something like Hunters Mark and at least on of her boons on attack on special.

the 10% on True shot wasnt triggering all that much

also should have taken Exit wounds for sure

[queen mural]

are Stygian Soul builds based on hoping you find Choas and +1 cast items at Charon well?

[proper furnace]

Yeah

[queen mural]

finally had a ME run. this time with the Hera bow
https://imgur.com/a/sqEfsKp

ME wasn't as useful to this build as much as Curse of Longing. If i had Divine Dash, it would have been an insane build but can't complain

having Weak and Doom inflict on the same attack saved the run. I was planning Athena on attack and Ares on special but I fat fingered it and picked Athena on special

ME is best on weapons with fast attacks so that you can land a few deflects im getting this right?

[full valley]

yes

[vital night]

Yeah fists are probably the best aspect for ME

[queen mural]

so the ideal is athena on attack and ares on special

[proper furnace]

Reverse

After you get ME you want divine dash

So you can dash strike to apply doom and instantly proc it

[queen mural]

on all weapons?

[proper furnace]

Zeus shield would be the only one that does reverse ME really

[plain river]

Yeah

pretty much

It just makes more sense to be able to dashstrike prok ME with ares strike and divine dash

[scenic thicket]

I personally like the bow. I think it's the best weapon. The chiron aspect. I just made a run on 21 skulls, hell mode, with the pierced butterfly. I liked it. I wanted to share with you, guys, see what you think of it.
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/K65zvcFNL6

[warped egret]

Guys. achilles spear with artemis dash and aphrodite attack and artemis special with serrated edge and vicous skewer hammer upgrade COOKS.

[vital night]

Could also flurry jab but yeah

Achilles strong

[warped egret]

Yeah

I personally like sereated edge better cuz ot doesnt make u stand still

[queen mural]

you can dash in and out of flurry jab

[clear crown]

so do I only get zeus blessings and aphro/artemis special ?

[plain river]

You’d grab 2 other gods to fill your pool (since the game stops showing you new gods after you have taken boons from 4 normal olympians). And then you’d still grab your two hermes boons because they’re so powerful, and chaos boons whenever possible. For Eris, Tidal dash from poseidon or Dionysus call are both really strong damage options for your other gods, or something like divine dash from athena also works defensively

as for the zeus boons, Static Discharge is easily the most valuable one you can get, it does really good damage and scales well w/ rarity and poms.

[minor sparrow]

Oops

[vital night]

Delete that message please

[full valley]

@errant narwhal can you help delete this message, please and thank you

[errant narwhal]

yep thx

[rose nexus]

And people think we don’t need stickybot

[primal brook]

We have the stickybot and the issue persists.

[potent tree]

At least more recent commenters have immediately noticed StickyBot's warning

[queen mural]

i think i just found my fav build.

Aspect of Hera with Curse of longing and heart rend.

Artemis on attack
Ares in special
Athena on cast

[full valley]

yum

[queen mural]

could be optimized more i guess but considering got all that without using a god keepsake I'm lucky enough

kept getting many revenge and damage resistance boons

[queen mural]

good bye ME builds Curse of longing + heart rend is my new fav build

[full valley]

🗣️

For fun, I usually mix in ares for the cast

can even branch into smair because aphro is in pool

[rose nexus]

Athena cast on hera sounds like suffering

Athena cast flies into the lava enough without being propelled by an arrow

[queen mural]

Ares cast in hera? im yet to try it

[proper furnace]

It has an specific niche where parting shot works funny with hera

The cast is released a bit in front of the arrow so you actually hit enemies' backs with it lmfao

[queen mural]

do curse of longing and merciful end synergies well?

[proper furnace]

No

CoL becomes useless once ME is online

[vital night]

That’s curse of vengeance

Col should be the duo with Poseidon and it’s pretty good damage that’s synergizes well with melee buikds

[proper furnace]

That's curse of drowning

[proper furnace]

That's ares revenge boon

[vital night]

Oh right

Oh curse of longing is the aphro duo

[oblique pivot]

Anyone have a good aspect to use for posioden/ares duo boon

[vital night]

Any fists aspect

[oblique pivot]

K thx

[vital night]

Start ares attach and force Poseidon cast

Yeah

Anything melee is good

[oblique pivot]

I was thinking doing Gilgamesh

For the bonus dashes

Cos the build seems a bit risky

[vital night]

Yeah but Gilga is clunky and sucks lk

Any fists should work though

[oblique pivot]

Ok

[queen mural]

whats the best cast to use woth Beawolf aspect?

[analog mauve]

this server needs tags

[jolly chasm]

Flood flare from Pos

[queen mural]

yeah i guess which also makes getting Mirage shot easier

i didn't like Dionysus cast with it

i did a run now with Aphrodite cast and it was insane

guess this weapon lives and died by mirage shot because before getting it my run was horrible

[jolly chasm]

The weapon lives and dies by Cshot ngl

Mirage is really important tho

[queen mural]

whats Cshot?

[jolly chasm]

Charged Shot hammer

[queen mural]

really? i love charged shot and take every time on other aspects but the one time i took it on beawolf it ruined my build

charged shot + Poseidon cast i assume?

so far my fav cast is Aphrodite. charging in after inflicting weak is good

[jolly chasm]

How did it "ruin" your build?

[queen mural]

against the heros, the triply shot wouldn't hit the bull when he rushes me

[tight basin]

if you're using aphro cast (and tbh dio cast) you don't really need mirage shot

dio cast is iffy bc since you're using stygian soul you really wanna make sure they're dead

but aphro cast doesn't need it bc it has enough raw power

also bc pstatus with aphro cast is good

[tight basin]

tbh i wouldn't say "ruin your build" for 1 specific move in a fight lmao

yeah that's a change that you'll have to adjust to, but in nearly ever other scenario, charged shot is gonna be doing more for you

[queen mural]

why not for aphro cast? MS basically doubles yhe damage no?

[tight basin]

well yeah it's obv good

but it's not exactly a necessity

getting 3 specific gods in a run and the latter 2 being what you need for a duo is a lot to ask for

[queen mural]

its just the case of charged shot and trippy shot dunno why they didn't synergies

[tight basin]

and can be difficult to actually get consistently

[queen mural]

whats the highest possible dodge chance?

15 from aspect of zag and 20% highest hermes evasion possible right?

whats the highest number of possible encounters

[proper furnace]

Dunno max but is not hard to reach 100%

Plume runs get around 32%~ from my experience

So 15% + 20% + 32-4~ then you can reach 100 through ruthless reflex or high rarity 2nd wind

[indigo hound]

You can easily reach 65ish base dodge chance and then 100 with ruthless reflex instead of extra dash. I love doing plume runs, even on bad runs where I miss a few plume timers here and there, hitting 60% with the Hermes boon is not hard at all

[queen mural]

oh i see, so 32% is around the max you can get from plume

plume runs are fun. i beat hades boss fight on the first try with a plume run

~55% dodge chance was enough for me to survive the fight without knowing his patterns

[indigo hound]

Yeah I love plume runs because face tanking daddy is just so hilarious

I usually put on that patroclus keepsake? Or I think thanatos that gives 1.5s invulnerability every few seconds that makes me take even less damage

It's just funny seeing big bad (sometimes em4) paa huffing and puffing and grunting and Zag just full anime style taunt dancing through his attacks

[vital night]

I wish plume was viable at high heat

[proper furnace]

Plume my beloved rd gamble

[queen mural]

what makes it not viable?

[vital night]

rooms take too long to clear

and you'd rather have build control

[primal brook]

^on top of this even if you get to Hades with plume at 35% then you're not going to be getting as much benefit as other keepsakes would offer.

[oblique pivot]

What plume benefit do you need to make it as good

[primal brook]

At high heat you can maybe take 8 hits from Hades (with full health + SD) so having the plume at maximum (about 35% assuming no room skips taken - which wouldn't happen because you need to take room skips when possible at high heat) would give you 1.35*8 hits (or about 11 hits). Compared to acorn you'd get 5 more free hits from Hades (8+5=13).
The damage buff you might get from rush delivery/bad news is decent but it's worth considering that even with an epic rush delivery (which is unlikely) you're only getting 35% bonus damage (less than skull earrings 40%).
So ultimately it's not really worth it (especially since you're probably not getting above 20% in an average run).

[oblique pivot]

So at what heat do you want to swap off lambent plume

Or does it really depend on the plume

For the bonus shields on foes and the extra health for them

[primal brook]

Would honestly not use plume unless I'm doing a challenge run. I'd guess it could be useful at something below 32 heat but at something like 50 heat then it's not even worth considering.

[oblique pivot]

Oh so still alright unless it is at the top 60% of heat

[vital night]

idk plume 50 could be chill if you're good at the aspect

i can try it today

kinda giving pom blossom but worse

[wild jasper]

so remind me, how exactly do bonuses to Dash-Strike vs Attack work? like i'm pretty certain Attack damage boosts all boost Dash-Strike too but i think Hermes Attack Speed boon is specifically just for the normal Attack, right?

[vital night]

yeah

works about how you would expect it to

[primal brook]

100% correct

[plain river]

Patroclus 👍

[plain river]

More than it can possibly give you

[oblique pivot]

Ok thx

[plain river]

losing build control and other defensive keepsakes is a massive loss

also mildly screws up your hermes odds thanks to opening the legendaries

[plain river]

this is incorrect

at least the point about the “only +35% damage, less than skull earings 40%”

If you exclusively had plume and epic rush delivery, true, it would only be +35% damage, but since the movespeed calcs are multiplicative, that’s more the minimum damage boost it’ll provide at epic

IE: if you had hyper sprint and plume, it’d take your movespeed from 135% -> 270%, and then your additive would be the bonus movespeed multiplied bt the rush delivery percentage. (270%-100%) * 1.00 = +170% additive.

[indigo hound]

I don't play high but yeah this, I only have a crazy run like 1 in 5 times at 10-12 heat, lack of build control would make it a nightmare at high heats

As fun as plume is it is still a gimmick/challenge run mostly

[primal brook]

Indeed, my point was that you rarely get great builds at high heat.

[wild jasper]

i think i've been sleeping on Aphrodite's Aid

forcing Theseus to target The Minotaur with his own Call is. certainly something

[queen mural]

charm is great

her legendary is such a clutch

charming hades to make him stop whatever attack sequence he does makes melee against him so much easier

[plain river]

you’re fine to put your head back on the pillows

aphrodite’s call is pretty decent defensively in boss fights to just block big hits with minicalls but not much use in individual rooms yk

[wet vector]

ngl i really don’t use minicalls often in individual rooms

[plain river]

You get used to it with the good damage calls like zeus / dio

[full valley]

sucked realizing all this time ares' call was terrible

the amount of times i've taken it

[jolly chasm]

Worst call

[sharp tendon]

I thouhgt it was cool cuz its invuln and automatic damage at once but I realized it was ass when I tried it on EM Hades

it did jack sht during hades' healing phases

[analog mauve]

Invuln and automatic damage is pos call if that's what u want

[sharp tendon]

as a keyboard/mouse player I actually hate Pos-coll more

esp for single target boss fights

like I gotta circle back for another instance of damage ok-

[analog mauve]

Yeah it's very inconvenient

But if you get the hang of it it's good

[sharp tendon]

huh

another skill issue I havent fixed

[wet vector]

hard vouch from me on pos call, slap a rip current on that thing and you throw bosses around like ragdolls

[quaint nova]

https://youtu.be/1RzjsiqcyWQ?si=h_GqqACwQbl862cP was insisting on using Aphro's cast for the Hera Aspect until I tried this

[queen mural]

whats a good complimentary special on hestia if i have aphro on attack

that is without rocket bomb hammer. rocket bomb i like going for heart rend artemis with 20% crit chance its hella nice

[analog mauve]

aphro or arty

[queen mural]

thing is on controller im under the mercy of aim assist to hit the special

only if one could reroll hammers 🥲

[queen mural]

ok lucked out taking epic tidal special and sea storm

[analog mauve]

<@&456908176877551658>

[errant narwhal]

on it boss

[hushed sparrow]

I'm torn between two gates...
Charon vs Daedalus
Have 593 obols, and 37/214 health...
But thinking I could get some crazy combo with Daedalus since I'm currently using the Adamant Rail, Flurry Fire, and a Rare Swift Strike. I've also got a rare Drunken Strike lvl 2 for my attacks.

[full valley]

daedalus

dont pom too much dio boons too

actually wait

did you pick yet?

[hushed sparrow]

No, I showered after asking my question 😛

[full valley]

okay maybe charon

[hushed sparrow]

lol
Your thoughts on either of those?
I was about to ask if Daedalus because I should always hit Daedalus or something.

[full valley]

its a free room, and its also before first win, yeah?

[potent tree]

The game tries really, really hard to ensure you get two Daedalus Hammers

You can usually skip a hammer and find it again later

[full valley]

yeahhhh

[hushed sparrow]

I've gotten one win, but no others so far. Don't know how many runs I've been doing but I'm going to guess about 15 runs to get my first, and it's been maybe another 8 ish runs without a follow-up win.

[full valley]

still super solid for 15 runs

[potent tree]

Sounds like maybe a build issue. Maybe.

[hushed sparrow]

This is right before bosses in Elysium by the way.
Also surprise: third option Chaos gate 😛

[full valley]

wait until he finds clockets 🤭

[potent tree]

Swift Strike is a big red flag all on its own

Drunken Strike is maybe not ideal either compared to Zeus on rail

[hushed sparrow]

Yeah... really wanted Zeus on it, but didn't come across him 😦

[potent tree]

Darn. Did you start the run with Zeus's keepsake?

[hushed sparrow]

I haven't given any of the gods anything.

[potent tree]

You need to get on that ASAP

[hushed sparrow]

Dusa gets my what's it calleds 😛

[full valley]

LOL

yeah, please spare some for gods

[hushed sparrow]

Dusa simp

I've been giving to other people in the house for their keepsakes, but I'll throw one to Zeus since his seems pretty damn good

Top 3 gods I should probably give to?
Zeus...

[full valley]

zeus, arty and aphro/athena

[hushed sparrow]

How come swift strike is a big red flag? My shots are so fast with it and Flurry Fire, I would've thought dumping my ammo faster would be good

[full valley]

swift strike is terrible because it doesn't apply to dash strikes + better boons in his pool

rush delivery is an absolute highlight

its not much of an increase too because it's already really fast

usually you take hammers for the special because it scales so friggin' high

[hushed sparrow]

I did get that nuke last time, combo'd it with Ares' bonus damage after kill.

[full valley]

rocket bomb too

hazard bomb ftw

[hushed sparrow]

How's Exclusive Access?

[full valley]

good until late elysium, and then if found after late elysium, if offered any boons that offer more damage, take those instead

ive lost out on good damage looking at recordings and just seeing me impulse take the duo instead of his call or razor shoals 😢

[plain river]

You just need to give them 1 🙏

[hushed sparrow]

I'll start doing runs for Ambrosia so I can give each of the gods 1

[plain river]

Honestly with both flurry fire and swift strike you can outpace the internal cooldown of chain lightning for zeus strike

aka

not each shot will have a lightning bolt

swift strike is generally questionable on most weapons due to the prevalence of dash strikes, rail is one of the few cases where it’s a valid consideration

the only problem then are the other better hermes options

Like hyper sprint -> rush delivery for huge bonus damage, greatest reflex (more dashes, hopefully obvious why that’s useful), & a limited number of his other misc boons

[plain river]

Getting EA before your two Hermes =
Afterwards much less

If you natural into it, it’s good

Building specifically for it is really really questionable unless you’re darkness farming

[queen mural]

Dionysus fountain boon is worth taking in Tartarus?

[full valley]

yes

strong drink?

[queen mural]

yes

[full valley]

yep

def. take, its better pierced butterfly, which unfortunately isn't saying much

just a good 25-30% take at the end

[queen mural]

is it additive or multiplicative?

[full valley]

not too sure, very likely additive

[proper furnace]

all dmg buffs are additive yeah

[tawdry estuary]

Am I safe in assuming damage reductions are multiplicative?

[full valley]

i think only movement speed is?

[tawdry estuary]

Surely not. If damage reductions were additive, you could hit 100% DR.

[analog mauve]

yea

[tawdry estuary]

Nice. I somehow wound up with 55% DR this run...

[analog mauve]

weak + sturdy puts you at around 50% on their own

add misc dmg reductions and abyssal blood you can reach 70+% if you try easily i think

[tawdry estuary]

Oh, wait, I messed up my math. I have 63% DR. No sturdy or abyssal blood though.

I also had 338% special damage. That was a good run.

[hushed sparrow]

What Mirror of Night talents do you all take? I generally seem to favor the purple/red ones instead of the green ones when reading through what they can do.

[plain river]

Yep

[plain river]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1217110989242241094/1246852154958938123/5D9D9869-90EA-49D9-A5D7-D843FF9B608F.png?ex=6762454f&is=6760f3cf&hm=1880f82ba3997da66073d925dac7d032999c2d227e5914cb9a7093e7100f43a6&

These are the good ones (+death defiance for runs under 32 heat, and shadow presence on niche aspects)

[analog mauve]

Ri2 32 💀

[plain river]

It’s free when you don’t have the darkness for anything 💀

Look at my runs completed

[analog mauve]

Ohh lmao

[tight basin]

ri4 is free at 32 heat if you're a gamer

[queen mural]

its weapon/build dependant

[queen mural]

which fist aspect works best with ME?

[analog mauve]

Dem and zag

[queen mural]

the curse of ME seeks to strike all aspects of fists im yet to get one ME build on fists 😭

[plain river]

Technically true but the only three that are weapon dependent are presence/reflex/soul

[static night]

does pressure points work even if my attack has an artemis boon?

[lucid oar]

yes

[static night]

Thanks!

[queen mural]

is pressure points worth it without an artemis attack or special?

[analog mauve]

thats when its most worth

[lucid oar]

Pressure points becomes good when you get hunters mark and have a way of applying damage frequently

Like razor shoals

[queen mural]

yeah that's what i meant. 3-5% on its own aint much but it makes existing crit chance nicer

[analog mauve]

i meant the other way around

[queen mural]

on zags bow is it better to go aphro attack artemis special or the other way around for heart rend

[lucid oar]

It depends how much extra attack and dash strike damage you have

More damage means Artemis is better, but you’ll have a harder time applying weak

[queen mural]

15% crit chance heart rend weakened opponent would do better damage than 30% crit chance no heart rend?

[lucid oar]

With no extra damage, yeah, but it isnt coming from heart rend itself

It’s coming from the higher % of aphro attack

[vital night]

3-5% is good when you just need one thing to crit to start a hunters mark chain

Less good when you already have a source of crit to start the chain

[vast sphinx]

hey there, been playing Hades quite a lot recently. Tring to complete the fate about fishing, am I supposed to hold onto 25 fishes and give them to Poseidon or fish 25 in total?

I'm not even sure what happens if I do another run without delivering the fishes from the previous one

[proper furnace]

the prophecy just requires fishing 25 total and 1 of them being a legendary iirc

his favor is the one that requires you holding a fish

[vast sphinx]

ok good to know 🙂

I've definitely fished more than 25 fish, just haven't stumbled upon a legendary one yet, will equip the poseidon tricket and keep trying!

[proper furnace]

legendary fish are a 50% on perfect catch

Nyaanyaa's Fishing Guide
There can only be three fake bobs, so the fourth bob is always real if the first three were fake. Fake bobs have an interval of 2-5 seconds while the real bob has an interval of 1-2 seconds. So if it takes more than 2 seconds, it should be a fake bob. Meaning you should look for the real bob within a short time after you start fishing or within a short time after a previous bob.

Personally, I just look for the white flash above the bobber and ignore the bobber itself. Some players have said they have better success when putting their thumb on the bobber to not get distracted by that, so maybe you could give that a try.

A Perfect Catch means catching a fish within 340ms. Perfect Catches are 50/50 on being a legendary or rare fish. Any other catch is 50/50 on being a rare or common fish

[vast sphinx]

I had an hunch you could fish faster due to the timing, but I haven't managed one yet!

old man reflexes

[plain river]

Aphro strike >>>> artemis strike.

Aphro strike gives you a lot of convience where artemis doesn’t. The raw damage boost from aphrodite on each shot more than makes up for the reduced crit chance, because every single shot you do, crit or not, is significantly stronger. It also applies weaken by itself on strike, compared to you needing some other method of application with artemis strike, and… your options are using the bow’s base special (super slow), using crush shot (no range or speed), or passion dash (best option but not exactly ideal).

So the average damage you deal is better, you deal more damage when you crit, and you don’t waste any time applying weak with some other method.

there is a valid arguement for artemis strike since a fair few of the bow hammers give massive additive, and twin/triple shot incentivize mid/melee range play, so passion dash is a solid use there

But you really need chaos to clutch up for your additive there

It can feel so much worse if you miss out on either twin/triple or extra additive then aphro will

[queen mural]

i was a super of twin shot/triple shot until i started playing em3

[plain river]

I am super twin/triple w/ em3

[queen mural]

will give aphro attack + heart rend a chance

also is there any scenario where i wanna use my special on zag/hera?

[plain river]

Hunter’s mark and/or a multishot hammer should make the crits constent enough

[plain river]

…rarely, and it kind of depends on what you have on special & you game sense like

If you’re running damage control 2 and run into a billion numbskulls a safe distance away

there’s always the charged volley meme build

[vital night]

there's always explosive shot start

[plain river]

I think if you have athena on special it’s a valid use case

particularly in any fights similiar to fo2 witches

I just can’t remember how the bow special hitbox works w/ deflect

[queen mural]

explosive on zag?

[vital night]

yeah

[plain river]

Explosive is kinda valid

Sorta

[vital night]

learn pseudotech

[plain river]

[queen mural]

i like explosive on hera but on zag something makes me wanna perfect shot everything

[plain river]

zag bow is my favourite rhythm game

[queen mural]

i think its the built in crit chance that makes me feel guilty for not getting perfect shot

because crit perfect shot is too good

[queen mural]

fr

[plain river]

But as a zag bow main I couldn’t tell you the last time I used the special

[vital night]

the min shot damage boost of explosive is just too good tbh

[plain river]

What is the minimum charge base damage

20?

[vital night]

20 yeah

[plain river]

Oh it is 20

Thanks cpecific hades wiki

How fast can you spam out min charges?

[vital night]

very fast

i can't find it but mysterra had a very nice video showing triple/explosive psuedotech

but pseudo's fftc record does it as well

[full valley]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1217113690445185024/1316199771345780786/explosive_hera.mp4?ex=6763688f&is=6762170f&hm=da0b9c41ff6931ca5052930d3fcd69a7fccc99c1fff7da92a5636d6d83880bd2&

[vital night]

Ahh yes @plain river

[static night]

Should I replace Artemis special (rare) for Athena special (epic) if I'm using aspect of Nemesis?

[vital night]

Yeah deflect is nice

[static night]

yeah I finished with it at level 13

[tawdry estuary]

Is there any particular reason aphrodite's attack/special boons are way stronger than other gods'?

[proper furnace]

Love hurts

[primal brook]

Probably just balancing reasons for early players. Being able to deflect/slow enemies down when you don't know their moveset are greater buffs than 30% damage reduction (when inexperienced).

So big numbers compensate

[proper furnace]

Meanwhile pos attack

[primal brook]

we don't talk about pos attack

[plain river]

Would be boring if all gods gave same numbers

[wild jasper]

i'll still take Poseidon's Attack over all Dash boons other than 2 or 3
Artemis is okay and i don't feel the need to name the other two

the rest of them, though... you take them for like the prophecies to take every regular boon a God has and then you never select them again

[plain river]

…do you mean poseidons dash?

Poseidons dash is the strongest dash by far, but they’re currently talking about the strike and flourish boons (attack & special)

[wild jasper]

no? i meant Attack
i was saying it still wasn't as bad as over half of the Dash boons in this game

[plain river]

…that’s a… weird comparison

I get where you’re coming from but idk if I’d agree lol

& like whether or not a strike is good depends on the weapon vs dashes where the value is

pretty universal

But on all the weapons that would benefit from +% on strike/special, poseidons just the worst pick typically

[wild jasper]

idk i just don't get what they were thinking with the Dash Boons in this game

[vital night]

Nah Poseidon strike is genuinely one of the worst boons in the game

If not the worst

His dash is one of the best

[wild jasper]

wait am i insane or am i remembering correctly when i say that i saw a Rare Pos Strike that was like 40%

that's the same as Uncommon Divine Strike damage...

[vital night]

so ideal strike damage is 100% which is epic aphro

and there is no uncommon rarity in the game

[wild jasper]

oh sorry i meant common

[tawdry estuary]

How do things that add a damage effect to an attack/special like thunder flourish interact with chaos' attack/special %damage buffs? Do the flat addons get buffed, too, or just the base?

[vital night]

just the base

[tawdry estuary]

Oof. That's what I figured.

[turbid needle]

What boons work well with exploding launcher?

[primal brook]

artemis/aphrodite special work well, if you're able to get merciful end up then athena on special works well too

(as long as the spear dashstrike is something you're interweaving between specials)

[frosty gazelle]

Apbrodie attack and the gold deadulas hammer

[plain river]

If you’re talking about hoarding slash

It’s possibly the most useless hammer there is

[frosty gazelle]

No not hoarding slash

[oblique pivot]

Is pierced butterfly any good for Hestia

I want to do a hestia run but am wondering what keepsake to use

[potent tree]

No, it's really meh

I'd just run the standard Olympian 1 > Olympian 2 > Hourglass/Acorn/Purse > Acorn rotation of keepsakes

[primal brook]

shattered shackle works well until you get a good attack boon

[oblique pivot]

What would be a good attack boon

And is Artemis dash any good

[potent tree]

I'd aim for Aphrodite's attack boon. Artemis's dash is okay. I think many players aim for Poseidon's dash

[vital night]

Aphrodite or Artemis

Artemis basically adds a bunch of single target damage and tidal dash helps with crowd control

[plain river]

Then je ne sais ?!?!

[hidden linden]

What’s better for sword, doom or crit chance?

[vital night]

Both are good

[hidden linden]

Should I go with doom on the special and crit on the standard attack? That’s what I did with shield but I barely won that one

[vital night]

Base shield special sucks and you should never use it

Doom on attack is fine as long as you either go for a merciful end build or add other sources of flat damage like tidal dash

[hidden linden]

You can upgrade it?

[vital night]

And some global scaling

Have you unlocked all weapons yet?

[hidden linden]

No, I don’t have the keys for the fists yet

I still need a win with sword and spear so hopefully I can get all of them without having to replay one

[vital night]

Ah alr. Well there is a weapon upgrade mechanic that you unlock once you unlock all of the weapons

But for normal shield you want to lean into the attack usually

Any attack based hammer and tidal dash can clear pretty reliably

[hidden linden]

I’m thinking of just ignoring the shield until I can upgrade it tbh. I wasn’t a fan

I did have great success with the bow though

[vital night]

Yeah, unless you get charged shot it’s just fine

Basically sword builds (and builds in general) can be some combination of tidal dash, doom, Zeus, +dashes, and global scaling(crits, call+billowing, hypersprint+rush delivery)

Game is quite flexible as long as you start tidal dash

[hidden linden]

I think the most difficult part is going to be using the crappy upgrades for minor prophecies

[vital night]

For the mirror?

All of them are usable to clear as long as you have a decent build

[hidden linden]

Thanks so much. What do you take for Zeus? All his boons seemed weaker than most of the alternatives

[vital night]

Attack or special, most important secondary is static discharge, which should be pommed with highest priority

His call and billowing strength are good, and so is his duo with Artemis

[hidden linden]

Is his call better than Aphrodite’s? Hers did a crap ton of damage

[vital night]

Yeah it’s much better

With static discharge you can get comparable amounts of damage, it’s multi target, and you don’t need to wait until full to use it

Also calls give like .5 seconds of invincibility when you use them, so being able to use small calls is way more utility

[hidden linden]

Is there any weapon where you should deviate from that build or is it just the meta in general?

[hidden linden]

That saved my ass against thesis and asterius my last run

[vital night]

I mean, it can work well on every weapon

You unlock more diversity in weapons once you unlock all of the weapons, but flat damage soup is strong on everything

Generally if something does more than 30 damage, a percentage like Aphrodite or Artemis would be better on it

Lower than 30 damage and a flat damage boon becomes better

Out of the six weapons, bow probably benefits the least from flat damage, but can still start tidal dash to help with crowd control

[hidden linden]

Thanks so much for the help

[spiral badge]

Just chiming in to say zag shield and especially bow are monsters for their blood costs. All zag shield wants is a strong % attack boon to unga bunga around the room and win runs. Zag bow plays like ranged nemesis and is an absolute menace. Put arty on attack, find double attack hammer, vaporize dad in 20 shots or less or your money back

[plain river]

“Zag bow is like a ranged nemesis”… last I checked zag bow wasn’t a ranged weapon

[tight basin]

true

[hidden linden]

What's some tips for the gun and what build should I use with it? It's not clicking with me but I don't want to lose my win streak

[analog mauve]

kbm or controller

[hidden linden]

controlller. I have four paddles though

[lucid oar]

Rebind reload to a trigger or paddle

[vital night]

Zeus on attack and Poseidon on dash

Look for static discharge and Zeus/dio/poseidon on call

Also +dashes and pp/hm from arty

[turbid needle]

what other duo boon works well with sea storm?

[sweet scaffold]

I think I've asked about rama, but it's been like a month since I've played Hades and I've forgotten most about it

I heard the best gods Artemis and aphro? I also saw that power shot and twin shot were the best upgrades for rama

[vital night]

Twin or triple are best first hammer since they multiply your damage

Perfect or point blank best as second hammers

[sweet scaffold]

Oh perfect is that one

And point-blank is the one that does more damage the closer you are to an enemy?

[vital night]

It’s 150% within a certain range

I don’t think it scales

[plain river]

Just a set amount

Doesn’t scale

[sweet scaffold]

Whra

Oh

[plain river]

Flat +150%

[hidden linden]

thanks, it's the weapon I'm most worried about but I still need to do a run with the fists as well

[vital night]

Lowkey the same build unless you want to do merciful end

[hidden linden]

I was planning on going merciful end again. Last run I got Hermes’ +3 dash on the sword with merciful end and it demolished everything

Its really annoying to build around but I don’t have the Zeus talisman yet so I can’t plan for a Zeus build

[vital night]

If you have tidal dash, you can just take ares on attack and put together a soup of stuff

Doesn’t really matter what you get

Obv merciful end is the strongest option, but tidal dash start also works well

[hidden linden]

is aspect of talos or aspect of demeter a better investment for twin fists?

[analog mauve]

Dem

[hidden linden]

whihc gun aspect is generally the best?

[proper furnace]

Eris/hestia take your poison

[sweet scaffold]

Hestia to me isn't very good. The reloading thing is way harder on controller without extra buttons

And if it's not leveled up, it does like no damage

[proper furnace]

Remap reload to a bumper/trigger

And yeah low lvl isn't very good but mac is just strong

[sweet scaffold]

If I didn't get those two, but offered triple shot, do I take it?

The other two are sniper shot and relentless volley

[proper furnace]

Rama/zag bow?

[sweet scaffold]

Rama

[proper furnace]

Yeah just take

Triple dmg is triple dmg

Just a bit awkward with the slower charge/melee range

[sweet scaffold]

So perfect shot doesn't even do anything? I can't tell if it's quicker or slower, but it looks like the draw speed is the same

[proper furnace]

Perfect shot extends the window for a power shot

Doesn't affect drawing speed

[sweet scaffold]

Yea but it seems like there's no difference

[proper furnace]

Oh yeah is not that big of an increase lmfao

[sweet scaffold]

I almost died to thesus

Rama is too slow to do anything

Big damage but you die quickly but just standing there

Not the best weapon

I would say it's one of the worst hidden aspects

Though I don't have rama upgraded at all, so it's to be expected

[proper furnace]

Lol

Also just to be sure are you dash striking

[full valley]

[vital night]

It’s probably the best

Skill issue(I’m bad at Rama too)

[sweet scaffold]

All the time

And I still take damage

[vital night]

Get better at dodging enemies. You only need 3-4 shots to clear a room ideally

Also try to hit multiple enemies so shared suffering procs twice

Rama can do the game basically hitless in the right hands

[wild jasper]

Rama haters have never used Zeus Special before

[tight basin]

That's not even what makes rama good lmao

[tight basin]

Extremely bold statement considering Rama's accomplishments

[sweet scaffold]

Yep

[sweet scaffold]

I didn't use

Zeus

I used Artemis and Aphrodite/heart rend

[sweet scaffold]

I'll have to use it again sometime and actually learn it's play style

[sweet scaffold]

It's literally just the longspears? In elysium that pose a challenge

[vital night]

Yeah I think the move is usually to use terrain

[spiral badge]

Rama is excellent, extremely powerful and balanced kit between the attack and special. Requires a slower playstyle than most weapons in the game, but has an argument for being the most powerful aspect of one of the most powerful weapons in the game. Remember that Rama's high base damage means it isnt nearly as dependent on powershots to be effective, spamming partial-charge shots in hectic environments is a perfectly valid way to keep safe while outputting good damage. Aphro or Artemis on attack, and Ares, Dio or Zeus on special make for a frightful combination that's equipped to handle any combat the game has to throw at you

[proper furnace]

Just acorn

[tawdry estuary]

Holy crap, my attack boon hit level 17 this run.

[solid night]

the easiest way to play rama is to slap zeus on special and go for jolted, double strike, splitting bolt and just spam the special from afar if you don’t like how slow the attack is imo

[plain river]

Which strike was it

[plain river]

Which one was artemis

[sweet scaffold]

The attack?

[plain river]

Arte strike on rama is like 📉 due to how frequently you’re attacking enemies, it just makes more sense to take aphro strike for the consistent additive on every strike

[vital night]

Though if you hit multiple enemies, one of them critting kinda levels out the dps

[plain river]

~

[vital night]

Arty is the best attack when rarity is not guaranteed

[plain river]

I may be too attached to smair lol

[vital night]

Smair dreams get crushed by ap2

[plain river]

Ap2 🙂🔫

I hate AP

I got my first 40 heat victory as soon as I took it off my pact

[vital night]

Yeah it’s not ideal

It’s comfy to an extent because you can turn your brain off and focus on gaming though

[tawdry estuary]

Aphrodite's

[tawdry estuary]

I swear, this game is mocking me sometimes. I try and go for an Athena build and I end up with 8 Dionysus boons instead.

[wet vector]

real!!

[hidden linden]

are there any good demeter builds? I want to max out the talismans but I don't know how to make a build around her

[plain river]

great question: funny answer… not really

Her good boons are mainly stand alone

Like snow burst for the loading castpects (hera, Beowulf)

Ravenous will on anything

[primal brook]

Crystal beam builds are super fun

(with arty duo)

[meager oracle]

What are good heat modifiers i mean the ones who won't make a run too hard ? heat 16

[plain river]

Something like extreme measures 3, middle management, tight deadline, benefits package one, underworld customs, & hard labour 1

should be 16 heat on the dot

If you check #h1-high-heat-strategies there’s a heat guide listing recommended heats for 1-32 heat, and a guide for 32 heat that should apply to everything before that too

[meager oracle]

Tight deadline is the time limit one right ?

[plain river]

yeah

the time you have left over carries to the next biome

and you don’t die when it hits 0

You just start taking 5 damage a second (dodgeable)

[meager oracle]

What's hard labour again ?

[plain river]

20% extra damage taken

Genuinely not as bad as the other options

[meager oracle]

Thx, yeah i mean i always pick middle management since it really changes nothing.

[plain river]

Zagreus is unironically tanky as hell without any hard labours or lasting consequences and just one isn’t really changing that

[meager oracle]

Also any tips for em4 ?

I almost had him last time but i didn't pick the tooth for on more dd.

[plain river]

It’s really hard lol

I haven’t run it in like 2 years

I don’t run it on my 32 heat pacts, my 40 heat pacts

Let me find ur advice for it

Cannot find much aside from ppl lamenting about how impractical it is to learn em4 before you get to 50 heat lmao

[plain river]

Tooth is potentially better than Acorn for em4 just due to that first phase

[meager oracle]

I remember some people saying that you should go with acorn for dad and I did, had every dd for the fight. I got to the third phase and heh had so little health that i thought i was gonna win.

Then he killed me, because i didn't have an extra dd lol.

[plain river]

Em4 is odd because it’s so much easier to lose acorn in phase 1

And rn you’re getting twice the value from tooth than other em4 runners because I’m assuming you’re running em4 by itself (without HL5)

[meager oracle]

Yeah the more aggressive attacks in phase 1 and that stupid spear throw hurt my soul.

[vital night]

What aspect are you running

Best advice i have is to make a savestate for the fight and practice it a lot

[meager oracle]

Last time i was using demeter.

[vital night]

Fists em4 is pretty rough

[vital night]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42BT490mSfQ

This is probably the best em4 fists play out there

[meager oracle]

Thx, yeah next time i was thinking of using something like eris

[vital night]

But yeah if that’s the only modifier, try to get a merciful end build and just dps through the fight

Eris will have a much easier time yeah

[wet vector]

em4 is lowkey my main motivation for playing atp lol

only 17 heat max

[vital night]

Em4 is super fun and I would say it gets more fun with the more modifiers you add on

[wet vector]

^^^

just nearly cleared em4 with hl1 and bp (which i would think effects the minibosses he summons)?

only lost because i ran out of time 😭

[vital night]

It does not

[wet vector]

oh huh

[vital night]

Em4 summons are independent of MM and BP(which effect minibosses normally anyways)

[wet vector]

i got to him with 1 dd left (am not used to how hard things hit with HL 😬) and still got him down to extremely low on third phase, would have won if i had another 30 seconds

[plain river]

Honestly Zag is super tanky with 0-2 hl levels on like all you need is a hyper sprint and you’re down to regular damage, and weaken from there brings you down to ~70% damage taken

and like

That’s 60% damage taken on hl1 my wrong starting number

[wet vector]

yeah im sure i'll adjust

im just used to him being ridiculously tanky

[plain river]

You will, everybody manages it

[plain river]

He’s still ridiculously tanky if you’re just on HL1 rn

You’re looking at 83% of the massive hp stat you were working with before

[wet vector]

idk it felt significant

might've just been playing terribly

[plain river]

If you were previously consistently winning with more than 20% of the hp you walked in with

[wet vector]

i think i was probably just playing badly tbh

[plain river]

Granted you’re also walking in w/ less hp

unless you had strong drink

[wet vector]

cause i'd been winning em4 with 3 dds left fairly consistently

[plain river]

That’s just unfortunate plays / possibly less fortunate build

the switch from HL0 -> HL1 is not that big

Otherwise the transition to HL5 would be devastating

[wet vector]

yeah im running a very similar build on nearly the same pact rn and it's fine

no idea what my issue was

[hallow ibex]

Im trying to do a fist run to get my clear on fresh file but what god would be good to pair with Zeus on zag fist

[plain river]

aphrodite for smouldering air 🙏

posiedon for tidal dash

artemis for R O D isn’t out of the question

[hallow ibex]

When it comes to Artemis what do I take from her

[vital night]

Special, hunters mark, pressure points, lightning rod

Support fire

[hallow ibex]

Does Aphros cast also activate the duo boon?

I got the Artemis special

[proper furnace]

Which duo

Too lazy to backread

If it's heart rend then yeah but prob a bit awkward to use

[full valley]

lightning rod

[proper furnace]

Oh yeah that works ideally even

Easier to set up rod where you want/middle of the room

[full valley]

smoldering air also lets you pick aphro cast

[tawdry estuary]

Are attack damage and dash strike damage completely separate or does attack damage get added to dash strike damage but not vice versa?

[vital night]

The latter

[plain river]

In 99% of cases strike bonuses are added to dash strike damage

in 100% of case, dash strike damage is not added to regular strikes

the 1% is like two select sword hammers

[tawdry estuary]

That's what I figured, but was only like 80% confident. Thanks.

[wild jasper]

i think the 200% backstab damage hammer doesn't do anything for the dash strike, right?

[primal brook]

yep

[wild jasper]

i always found that so bizarre

[primal brook]

Probably for balancing purposes, having 200% damage on the dashstrike (considering that dashstrike is the most used strike) would be pretty overpowered. Especially when paired with double edge.

Still agree it's weird

[wild jasper]

what's the other one that doesn't effect dash strikes?

[vital night]

Cursed

Also cruel thrust

[turbid needle]

Ugh, my last achievement is Hold the Onions but I'm SO bad at not taking at least a LITTLE damage. Any tips other than Dodge Forever? (I'm wondering about Mirror Setups and Pact choices? I usually have Forced Overtime cranked. Maybe slowing that down?)

[jolly chasm]

Slow that down

[turbid needle]

Yeah, I'm thinking that's largely it other than a useless suggestion to "get good" xD I'll look over the mirror just to check for playstyle stuff that might help.

I got a new controller for christmas and am like... committed to finishing my achievements xD The only thing other than that to do is unlocking the contractor fully but.... That's a lot and I don't honestly care. xD

[proper furnace]

What achievement is that again, clear an erebus gate?

Just do hestia and for pacts use hl5/em as you don't wanna get hit or doesn't affect the gates themselves

And don't bother much with gates on aspho or ely

Those get really bad

[tawdry estuary]

Man, I really wish keepsakes increased the frequency of the god rather than rarity of boons. Would be way more powerful that way. Though I guess that's probably why it isn't like that...

[tight basin]

Well the first boon on a door you see will be from them so that's something lol

(nearly) guaranteed one isn't too bad

[hallow ibex]

Most after that you’re at the fate of RNG you wouldn’t see that same god until maybe asphodel or elysium

[ancient elm]

Just wondering if i use achilles spear, put a demeter cast, buff my cast with special, does the demeter turret benefit from buff despite the turret having been put down before?

[proper furnace]

No

[winged charm]

What is better for a hangover build? Curious over opinions. Curse of Nuasea (cant spell) or Low Tolerance?

Also whats the better aspect for rail? Im having a really fun time with the Rail plus Maxxed Zagspect

I recently just finished a run and beat dad with a crazy hang over build and had 30 shots due to rapid fire hammer

i call it El Borracho (The Drunkard)

[plain river]

Lower Tolerance boosts your dps by up to 60% where Curse Of Nausea is always 37.5%

It’s usually better to have low tolerance if it isn’t a dio call based hangover

having both is good too

[plain river]

Eris and Hestia are easily better than lucifer and zagreus, but all the rail aspects are good

Hestia’s really safe while still having great dps for high heat gameplay, and eris just has raw dps that helps it through speedrunning and high heat

[winged charm]

I always tend to go both but when i cant ill stick to LT then thanks!

[winged charm]

Yeah i wanna try Hestia but i feel i will just forget to reload manually XD

I maxxed out Achillies but I feel im always using the special to dash around

[plain river]

…Hestia is pretty much 100% reload

you always reload immediately, you don’t use the rest of your clip

[winged charm]

I maxxed out Zag cause I mainly and doing Hangover builds

*am

[plain river]

Mmm

Have you tried lightning builds

[winged charm]

So i can always touch

[winged charm]

That is what i plan to do rn in my next run in a bit XD

[plain river]

Also if you’re using zag you can do more builds, since lightning and drunken work a bit better on eris

But zagrails real niche is being able to make good use of spreadfire

[winged charm]

What is eris again? And thanks ofr answering my questions

[plain river]

Extra global damage for 4s when you hit yourself with your special

+15%-75%

depending on level

[winged charm]

Yeah i got the speed fire upgrade last round and it awesome i had 30 bullets

[winged charm]

Does this affect Hangover DPS?

as well?

[plain river]

Flurry fire is the opposite of spreadfire

[plain river]

Global means global

[winged charm]

Oh i read it as speed fire XD

[winged charm]

Oh XD

[plain river]

spreadfire is -6 ammo to get a 40 base damage shotgun

[winged charm]

Its cause i thought achilles did the same thing but i only did cast builds so i never noticed

I guess ill try Eris

[plain river]

Typically zeus strikes builds are stronger than hangover strike builds on rail

But if you want to still have dio, his call is really strong

and lightning rail charges minicalls really fast

plus dio call charges itself really fast from it’s own damage over time

[winged charm]

Yeah i was just really enjoying yhe DPS recently cause i was getting with all hangiver duos and poms like 700 DPS

[plain river]

if you are doing zeus, look for static discharge and pom it

It’s a good chunk of your dps if you get it

on any zeus build for any weapon

[winged charm]

Ik that lightning strike has fall off

Ill keep that in mind

[plain river]

Static discharge inflicts a status curse

[winged charm]

ya jolted

[plain river]

It doesn’t fall off

Unlike chain lightning

[winged charm]

ohhh i wouldve never noticed

[plain river]

Honestly static discharge wasn’t noticed until the dps meter mod came out

Nobody consciously realises static discharges damage

[winged charm]

I always thought it was really good as i think Zues imo has the best support boons (Billowing Strength ❤️)

Billowing strength is honestky my fav kind of boon the damage it gives is super great

And it lasts decently long too

[round umbra]

How does battle range work with disk blitz? Is it the entire throw if you throw the blitz after killing something? Seems like no, but like it is the first hit not the first swing of the blitz

[vital night]

I don’t understand your question

[primal brook]

*battle rage I assume.

It works for the first strike (which occurs within the first 0.3 seconds of the disk being sent out). I'm pretty sure if you have ER also and kill something before triggering it that will also have a single instance of battle rage (don't quote me on that though)

So the first swing will trigger the battle rage buff, not the first hit (I'm pretty sure at least).

[vital night]

Yeah that’s probably how it works

Each tick is counted as a separate instance and you burn the battle rage charge regardless of whether you hit something

[round umbra]

Lame but understandable

[gusty wasp]

Does second wave flat out 2x your flood flare damage?

[jolly chasm]

No

Second wave just doubles knock back effects

[plain river]

If your flood flare damage comes exclusively from wallbanging

yes

otherwise it doesn’t do much

[static night]

I'm gonna use adamant rail with Ares boons, what aspect do you think is better? Hestia is great overall, but zagreus might stack Dire Misfortune more

[plain river]

Eris by far lol

I mean zagreus has a niche in spreadfire for merciful end

[analog mauve]

eris ME > zagrail ME

i dont get why spreadfire is needed for ME

[tight basin]

A lot easier to dash strike into enemies I suppose

[plain river]

is just

it just makes it better

It’s not needed it just improves it

[analog mauve]

how

[tight basin]

The attack just does more damage compared to fists and sword

[ancient elm]

If i got Mirage shot from artemis special and poseidon attack, can i sell poseidon attack after and mirage shot will still work?

[vital night]

Yes

[ancient elm]

Awesome, thx

[ancient elm]

On merciful end (abilities that can deflect activate doom effects) does athena dash activate this? As in does dashing/deflecting w dash trigger doom

Trying to figure out what duo to go for with aspect of hestia with ares on attack

[plain river]

Yes

That is actually the strongest way to use merciful end

[plain river]

(This is hard because Ares attack doesn’t work well on Hestia, and so duo synergies don’t really work as effectively either)

[ancient elm]

Oh damn. I switched out ares attack for artemis, but good to know for the future

[plain river]

That’s a good switch

[ancient elm]

Which attack works well on hestia?

[plain river]

if you’re on Hestia

+% work the best on the slower heavier hitting attacks and specials

[ancient elm]

And which aspect would be good for merciful end, also would just dashing trigger doom or just when dash does deflect?

[plain river]

Dash striking with ares on strike both applies and drops doom

since the deflect hits after the strike does

All decently quick melee weapons can do this well

Nemesis, achilles, zeus, and demeter/gilgamesh get shout outs here

[ancient elm]

Ah damn. Good to know. Thanks man

[plain river]

+% like aphrodite, artemis, athena, etc

slower things like +% and faster attacks like flat damage from zeus/dio

[plain river]

Eris can run it too, since the +75% additive is really nice on doom

[ancient elm]

Yeah that makes sense

Should i go for heart rend after switching to artemis? Or what should i be looking for on hestia with artemis attack

[plain river]

Heart rend is pretty solid

Especially since aphrodite works nicely on the rail’s special

[lucid oar]

Doom attack can do rlly well on hestia

[plain river]

Doom attack on Hestia is just delaying the damage that literally any +% would add

it’s not enough added damage compared to what a decent +% strike would do

[lucid oar]

All you need is enough % to one shot unarmored enemies

Once youre past that threshold doom attack is fine, even better than % attacks with global damage

World record uses it

[plain river]

Mmmmmmmmm

Real

How much +% is that btw

[lucid oar]

Asphodel is about 90%

[plain river]

A couple chaos or just one

[tight basin]

i thought aspho was like 120% or something

over 100% tho

but yeah wr uses doom atk

[lucid oar]

90 + hc + fiery

Idk its been a while since I’ve played

[tight basin]

ah i'm pretty sure the 100+ value was including those values

so we both could very well be right lmao

or both wrong idk

i haven't played in a while either

[plain river]

Bc the avg player uses HC and keeps it active

I think for most it makes more sense to just keep with +%, but certainly it’s a viable option, my b for portraying it otherwise

[livid hare]

i’ve got 150+ runs and like at least 10 heat with each weapon except for 1…

the twin fists of malphon

i can never get a good build with it and i have it at 8 heat

any aspect build is good i just don’t wanna be like “UGHHHH” every time i see the fists give more darkness

i know generally you should have support fire and zeus on main but idk what else

[tight basin]

support fire is the important part, the important part is getting static discharge from zeus after getting his attack

after that, all your poms should go into static discharge

tidal dash if you want, although it can be a bit iffy bc you can knock them out of your range

aspect of demeter and get a good % boon on the special

other than that, that's the whole build lmao

zeus/dio call are ideal since fists charges call relatively fast

[livid hare]

like aphrodite?

[tight basin]

yeah she's solid

aphrodite or artemis are ideal

[livid hare]

ah right the crits

[tight basin]

with aphrodite, you'd want to pick up a call to get their duo smouldering air to spam calls

with artemis, you'd open lightning rod

which is also free damage

otherwise, demeter/athena still provide solid damage

pos is a bit sus bc you might knock them away before they all hit, although idrk bc i just dont use him on special lmao

[potent tree]

Bananas still provides solid advice

[tight basin]

i've been less active here bc i've been playing another game lmao

[livid hare]

what’s pos

[tight basin]

and being in taht discord

[tight basin]

poseidon

[livid hare]

ic

ok would a good build be maybe something like

zeus main

artemis special

ares cast

artemis dash

hunting blades

art legendary

actually all three of those gods legendary if lucky enough

support fire

and maybe try to get vengeful mood if i could get some vengeance effects

[tight basin]

don't aim for legendaries

and only aim for 1 duo

it's just way too inconsistent to actually do otherwise

[livid hare]

hunting blades always carries me

[tight basin]

and also you don't want to build into your cast bc that's a waste of time and poms

i mean sure but you could also just have a good fists build without that lmao

and it'd be less frustrating bc you'd need 2 specific gods after zeus

which isn't necessarily consistent

[livid hare]

but otherwise i’d need aphrodite

wouldn’t it be better to like

zeus trinket

artemis

ares

acorn

that’s how i usually do it

with some other builds

[tight basin]

do zeus -> whoever -> acorn -> acorn

[livid hare]

acorn twice?

[tight basin]

yeah

it refreshes

[livid hare]

i can usually get out of elysium pretty easy tho

even with extreme measures

[tight basin]

it's still better than ares and trying to get hunting blades in like 8 rooms

esp considering lightning rod or smouldering air are better for fists

[livid hare]

i’ve gotten duos in tartarus before i can do it

[tight basin]

i never said it's impossible, it's just inconsistent

[livid hare]

fair

[tight basin]

you can't rely on "just get the duo" for most builds lmao

only like 2 "get the duo" builds exist

every other build just aims towards that direction bc the build is still strong without the duo, the duo just makes it even better

[rigid hollow]

🍌
love your guide man

[livid hare]

also don’t judge me but for some reason i have extreme measures set to max all the time