h1-builds-and-combat

[tight basin]

how many rerolls do you have left

[glacial sonnet]

i mean i could also get lucky then have RD

0 lol

[tight basin]

how'd that happen already lmao

i'd take haste

[glacial sonnet]

i was trying to reroll out of special/attack dio

on achilles spear

[tight basin]

gonna be real sad when you get like common rd but free 20% additive i suppose lmao

what was the third option lmao

no shot it offered 3 cores every time

[glacial sonnet]

third option was like idk common after party

speaking of which i got crystal clarity and a chance to rob charon

[tight basin]

yeah should've just taken after party lmao

[glacial sonnet]

mirage shot right after robbing charon

epic duos

75% rd

thank god for yarn

with flurry jab do i take extended jab or triple jab

[vagrant crane]

what atk do you have

it doesnt matter much either way

but if u have flat dmg then triple is usually slightly better while extended can be better on arty

[glacial sonnet]

artemis attack

[vagrant crane]

then extended

but like i said its a minute difference either way

[glacial sonnet]

"my chariot nooo"
"goddes athena i-"
"artemis!"
"oh hi remember me"
HEROES VANQUISHED

i pretty never use her call outside of bosses lol does the arrow at least spread out to multiple targets

[eager flint]

nah, only one

it has very, very, very niche uses

so basically it's very bad

[analog mauve]

i used it in a styx mini chamber to take out a bother

[eager flint]

honestly it's better to use it for i frames

[eager flint]

yeah

[analog mauve]

i mean greater call

[eager flint]

sometimes you can use it as some kind of discount cast

[analog mauve]

:troll

[eager flint]

ah

[glacial sonnet]

so aphro call is basically better unless like crits happen on full gauge artemis call

[eager flint]

what

[analog mauve]

yea

[glacial sonnet]

isnt charm usefull too for non full calls

[eager flint]

Depends

[analog mauve]

personally i am an arty call fan

[eager flint]

I'm personally against charm being a thing

it suuucks

but ymmv

[analog mauve]

with eris the small call charges every few secs which is nice in elysium to take out the armour of bp enemies

[glacial sonnet]

ok got glacial glare (epic) and arctic blsat just before superdad

ok so ME is one of those builds where its good to go for gods legacy right

the one with leg/duo boost

[untold iris]

not necessarily

[analog mauve]

go pride and get the duo anyway

[untold iris]

doom rarity is important too

[random trail]

alright so i've been wondering

what is the worst possible build an average skill player could use to beat the game

[untold iris]

anything

assuming heat 0

[vagrant crane]

gilga shackle

with hunter dash

[untold iris]

i could probably beat heat 0 with no boons and im not a good player

so a good player could probably do it trivially

and no boons is probably harder than whatever awful build you will end up with from picking things randomly

[errant narwhal]

my brother insists on hunter dash being the best dash in the game because the last time he played it still gave 100% crit chance

[random trail]

100% crit chance sounds game breaking

[errant narwhal]

yeah it used to be 100% crit on dash strike iirc

too good to stay

the merciful end of 2019

[analog mauve]

x3 dash strike

serrated but it isnt bad

[glacial sonnet]

is doom affected by boiling blood?

[proper furnace]

No

Boiling is attack/special

[glacial sonnet]

explosive upper for dem fists 👀

[plain river]

Boonless

[random trail]

how does boonless work actually? i feel like there's enough doors with boons that you can't really avoid it.\

[analog mauve]

you can sell them

and you can get away with only getting 1-2 boons per biome

[glacial sonnet]

no athena in tartarus

[untold iris]

can also use rerolls on doors

doesnt always work but it reduces the number of boons you have to take

can sell the rest

[analog mauve]

persuasion better

i think

maybe im confused

[untold iris]

is persuasion really better if you're trying for boonless?

[glacial sonnet]

chaos boon, dash strike, or special for dem fist?

[untold iris]

you can reroll wells I guess

[analog mauve]

i forgot the reasoning behind it

[untold iris]

or reroll the purging pool

[glacial sonnet]

if i have explosive upper should i double down on giga cutter then?

[analog mauve]

oh yea for like leaderboard boonless iirc you cant use the slot you take a boon in

so u need rolls to roll off of bad menus

[untold iris]

that makes sense

i wasnt thinking about specific leaderboard rules

[analog mauve]

yea me neither it was just something that was in the back of my head

and i forgot the reasoning behind it

[proper furnace]

what's higher between dash strike and special?

dash strike also applies to dash upper

[glacial sonnet]

56 special 59 dashstrike

[proper furnace]

take the less annoying curse ig

[untold iris]

dash strike also applies to dash attack though

which special buff wouldnt do

i guess special buff applies to standing special

but i think thats less relevant

[proper furnace]

it seems they are going for ME anyways so eh

[untold iris]

probably doesnt matter then

[random trail]

thanks for the explanation!

[glacial sonnet]

spent all my rerolls on first athena boon and she never offered me her special
at least got purple dash

[glacial sonnet]

omg could i have gone for better boons instead

that was 3rd option

[proper furnace]

oh

yeah I would have taken favor there

[glacial sonnet]

is colossus knuckle good

or i can get draining cutter here ig which goes well with dem special already

[proper furnace]

what's the third

also is colossus the sturdy one

[glacial sonnet]

yeah sturdy one
3rd is rolling which i was told before is bad

also does trial of the gods have different rarity for the gods picked first and second?

[tight basin]

It's not bad it's just like anothing hammer

All of those are pretty nothing lmao

[proper furnace]

nah

only rule is no duos

[glacial sonnet]

oh damn ok no ME either way

[tight basin]

Could get dash or impending tho

Trials are pretty good for ME runs

[glacial sonnet]

no ME, as far as elysium boss fight

or for that matter any athena chamber in elysium

or ares
i just kept getting piled on with dio and aphro chambers

or hearts

[tight basin]

It do be like that

[glacial sonnet]

whats the difference between 450 vs 150 boon for rarity chance

two athena boons on sale, one 150 and the other 450

lets gooo

[proper furnace]

guaranteed rare for the expensive boons

[glacial sonnet]

guaranteed blue only?

[proper furnace]

it does buff epic too

and has like -2% for duos

[glacial sonnet]

ok so i dont have RD do i sell my 20% greater haste

so i can hopefully buy both athena boons

45 obols

[proper furnace]

I'd sell yeah

[glacial sonnet]

oh man early sack so i cant even rely on the fountain for further coin hunting

AHA 150 BOON GAVE ME

[proper furnace]

do you even have ME open yet

there it is

at least the build is usable now

[glacial sonnet]

i have white imepnding doom and dire misfortune

oh man i have trippy shot is no boiling blood gonna make things difficult

[proper furnace]

nah

[untold iris]

is it guaranteed rare?
i thought it was 90%

i could be wrong though

[proper furnace]

it may be

I don't remember if it copies the tart miniboss rates or later

[untold iris]

ok i checked

Tartarus miniboss & boosted loot in Styx shop: +10% legendary, +25% epic, +100% rare
other minibosses & Erebus: +10% legendary, +25% epic, +90% rare

this is what I could find

so styx shop does guarantee rare

[proper furnace]

nice

[untold iris]

idk if that makes a difference though

as far as i can tell regular gods have 10% base rare chance

so idk if that 90 is +90% (so 100% total)

or if it does give you a chance of missing

[proper furnace]

you can miss

[untold iris]

oh wait

the 10, 25, 90 is a rarity override

not an addition

compared to the normal 12, 5, 10

kind of weird that the boosted rarity boons actually have lower duo/legendary chance

[proper furnace]

#523766637757726722 message

cool to know

[eager flint]

I'm more surprised there are two different boosted rates

why separate tart and styx shop from the rest ?

[glacial sonnet]

whats a non fist ME build

[eager flint]

zapfist. Zeus attack, flat damage soup

[glacial sonnet]

oh i mean ME thats not on fist

[eager flint]

ah

anything

ME is just crazy like that

[glacial sonnet]

sword maybe?

[eager flint]

I guess bow doesn't

sword is mainly ME yes

shield too, except beo

[untold iris]

ME works on any weapon that primarily does dash strikes

[analog mauve]

Eris

[eager flint]

spear can be built ME, I don't remember if it's the optimal meta

[untold iris]

which is like, every melee weapon

[analog mauve]

Which is every weapon

[eager flint]

nah

ME bow must suck, right ?

[proper furnace]

on anything that's not achilles

[untold iris]

well it doesnt work well on bow due to bow's weirdness

[eager flint]

you can't dash strike as quickly as you want

[untold iris]

i wouldnt want to use it on rail either

[proper furnace]

gy modded ME is comfy tbh

[untold iris]

though i guess its technically possible

[analog mauve]

Skill issue tbh just do it 💯

[glacial sonnet]

so i maxxed out every aspect is tblood obsolete now besides for trading

[tight basin]

Every sword, spear, and fist can do ME lmao

Except like Arthur

[glacial sonnet]

zag sword speed bonus ME

[untold iris]

whats wrong with arthur ME?

[glacial sonnet]

also 15% rd potential out of the box

[untold iris]

can still be a dash strike monkey on arthur

though i guess it is worse since arthur dash strike is slower

[eager flint]

arthur can still do ME. It's just gonna get arthured. But, like, it's not even a bad build for arthur

[untold iris]

still seems fine though

[eager flint]

infuriating tho

[glacial sonnet]

are troves as good as it gets for gemstone farming

[untold iris]

shields can all do ME as well, except beo probably

[eager flint]

I think fishing is better ?

[untold iris]

since cast builds are much better for beo

[glacial sonnet]

yeah only if i get stonewhals every chamber

[proper furnace]

same as darkness farming tbh

just get them from bosses

[untold iris]

its just bow/rail/maybe beo that I think ME doesnt work well for

[glacial sonnet]

bosses drop like what 10-20 maybe?

[untold iris]

its 100 per run

[eager flint]

20 iirc

[untold iris]

10, 20, 30, 40

for the bosses

[proper furnace]

wait is that low

[glacial sonnet]

time to load up on my chaos eclipse and poseidon harvests

[proper furnace]

lmfao

[untold iris]

its also backloaded so it gives you time to pick up +gem boons

[proper furnace]

what's the highest you can get from troves again

[untold iris]

realistically?

70

it starts at 75 and counts down

[proper furnace]

oh that's what I wanted to know

what it started

use titan blood for the 200 gems trade

[untold iris]

if you really want to farm, I would recommend doing fast runs
fish when possible, open troves when possible, use bouldy, get chaos/poseidon boons that increase darkness/gems

other than that just speedrun

[glacial sonnet]

i can usually pick up like 60-50 from a trove

[untold iris]

poseidon is kind of nice because not only is tidal dash good for speedruns you can also pick up darkness/gem boosts

or huge catch

[proper furnace]

huge catch in styx sounds great

[glacial sonnet]

still need diamonds to finish music and ambrosia for all the companion plushies
im not gonna even with the themes

[proper furnace]

lot of chances for gems there

[untold iris]

diamonds and stuff are easy to farm if you're good enough at low heat to not need to spend gold

just use golden touch or whatever that mirror option is called

and never spend gold until styx

[glacial sonnet]

extra diamond then

since i maxxed all aspects now i wish tblood downtrades happen more lol

oh wait i can spend it on theme

[untold iris]

the faster you do runs the more downtrades appear

and the more fishing opportunities appear

[glacial sonnet]

hmm i could also finally do 16 heat w rail

[glacial sonnet]

does explosive fire on rail + zeus attack give multiple chain lightning from each targets hit?

also damn last runs were 0 heat darkness farming and the gods showered me with purples since tartarus and i try my first 16 heat they drop me whites

if i pass eurydice is it worth taking the food that raises rarity or the poms instead?

[eager flint]

depends

the main draw of increase rarity is that it can improves your hermes/chaos boons

and a few other unpommables I guess

Otherwise, pom is usually better. Idk if there's some niche case where rarity is better because poms have diminishing returns, but I doubt it

But most of the time, you'll get the nectar anyway

[glacial sonnet]

no eurydice this tartarus run anyway

not a lot of poms found too for my white cores

idk maybe i should retry the run for purples

[tight basin]

boon rarities hardly matter

it only matters on very few things

[glacial sonnet]

last boon before superdad

hide breaker, exit wounds, or clean kill?

no rerolls btw

i didnt invest in casts though but i mean they're all purple

is 300 extra damage good or maybe 200% dmg vs armor for the miniboss adds

my arte is on special so idk maybe 30% more rocket dmg good?

died at phase 3

[proper furnace]

All of them kinda just exists fwiw

[glacial sonnet]

is life affirmation worth picking in tartarus

[proper furnace]

I like it

[glacial sonnet]

world splitter on nem sword
ye? or i can just pick breaching slash like usual (theres no dedge)

special -> hope for world splitter crits?

[proper furnace]

Splitter can be fun ig

[glacial sonnet]

i already have aphro too so maybe it can get big numbers

athena on attack or special

could wait for aphro attack?

does parting shot give me a global 35% backstab damage bonus or is that only for casts

[proper furnace]

Cast only

[glacial sonnet]

+410 obols

[vital night]

real

[glacial sonnet]

world splitter giving me 900 damage crits by asphodel wooo

so i understand attacking in dash removes the iframe
does it remove deflect too? does deflect last longer than the dash iframe or smth

i mean i could go hunter dash if deflect doesnt give me more protection than just iframes

[proper furnace]

Deflect isn't related to iframes so it's fine

If you deflect the attack it'll no longer deal dmg to you

[glacial sonnet]

oh nvm hunter dash doesnt unlock duos for aphro or athena

true shot

chaos boon strike 👀

paupers but i already got 400 obols from selling parting shot so

[glacial sonnet]

ok i was wrong world splitter is hella mid

or more like just clunky

also forgot that i shouldnt get tidal dash bc short range attacks

all that good damage tradeoff by having to stand still and lose hella hp

[vital night]

tidal can work if you pom it tons and work with the knockback

[proper furnace]

Commit to dash only

[vital night]

real

just play gilga

[glacial sonnet]

tdash gilga?

[vital night]

yeah

I gave up on ME and just did tdash gilga for 32

it works

athena attack and you're pretty set

also consider authority so you can get poseidon secondaries early

otherwise you can feel very wet noodle

[glacial sonnet]

hades call

[vital night]

yeah

or

zeus call and then try for sea storm

[glacial sonnet]

i mean im at styx so idk if i can find a call lol might as well keep it?

inb4 nuked in first 5 hits without acorn this time

[vital night]

oh i thought you were talking about the poseidon build

[glacial sonnet]

lol i can keep that in mind too

i mean already have the tdash part

[vital night]

I generally taek acorn and then just try for a call

look for gods you already have a bunch of boons from so you have a higher chance of getting call

[tight basin]

if you're doing dash only, lightning reflexes -> static discharge is better than sea storm

you'd only get sea storm on dash only if you're unlucky to get cores from pos and zeus instead of shoals/breaking wave/reflexes/jolted

[vital night]

Oh yeah, I was saying that in response to taxi saying something about a call that I thought was referring to dash only

[eager flint]

On high heat rama, what is better from zeus between Lightning flourish and Zeus's call ?

[vagrant crane]

most likely special

[eager flint]

I went with flourish, it helps a fair amount already, but call is also plenty of damage

[vagrant crane]

rama has horrendous call build

[eager flint]

That much is true

Also, what to start with ? I tried shackle, aphro, artemis, zeus and poseidon

So far I like tdash most

It really helps with AoE and early damage. Though AoE might be a skill issue on my part for not hitting my specials

[vagrant crane]

what heat?

[eager flint]

50

well, this one was 55

[vagrant crane]

i think most people would do aph

[eager flint]

the only difference was JS2 instead of JS1 (and EM4 but lol)

[vagrant crane]

idk though

[tight basin]

aphro start is better for heat

actually is this modded or not

[eager flint]

modded

[tight basin]

yeah aphro then

big attack good

[eager flint]

how do I deal with the early chambers though ?

[vagrant crane]

prob use epic start mod

[vagrant crane]

shouldnt be too bad

[tight basin]

wdym

[eager flint]

idk if tdash or zeus special is a crutch for me

[tight basin]

to strip dc?

[vagrant crane]

for swarms of smaller enemies do short charges

[eager flint]

But I really struggle with tagging everyone and doing good cleave damage

whereas a simple tdash helps a lot because of dash damage + bodyslam + wallslam

feels safer too

[tight basin]

i mean like

if you want you can start thunder flourish

and take shackle into aspho if you have to

you just wont have a defensive keepsake

unless you get lucky ofc

[eager flint]

I mean

Aphro is BoS, arte and athena are good, dem is cope

no dark foresight makes a lot less gods appear but still

I feels likelier than going for aphro and getting good aoe

but honestly it might really be a skill issue

actually I'll look at a few high heat rama runs to see how they play

[tight basin]

aphro start is better since that damage matters a lot more

for the special, you can work with a lot

zeus, dio, and ares are good bc flat damage

athena is good for beating bullet hell

dem for chill isn't bad

[eager flint]

Hmm fair

[tight basin]

pos has knockback which like sure i guess lmao

and arty is sus

but good for getting marked going if you can find that

[eager flint]

yeah

[glacial sonnet]

i keep forgetting to switch presence whenever i use hestia

[eager flint]

that's what I was thinking

oh yeah, speaking of presence

[tight basin]

just always use fiery

fiery is almost always better

[tight basin]

if you're on dc, 100% shadow

[eager flint]

Fiery or backstab with DC2 rama ? It feels like stripping juuust the 2 DC is too unreliable

oh yeah lol

bananas read into my mind

[tight basin]

lmao yeah you're never getting fiery off

very very low chance

its def possible to only get 2 specials to hit but very unreliable

but once you get like any sort of flat damage on the special it's never gonna happen

[eager flint]

just do a strike with twin shot 4Head

[glacial sonnet]

wb fists for presence

[eager flint]

fiery

[tight basin]

you'll get more backstabs on fists but that damage is very pitiful

it's a base 15 hit so like

you're not getting much milage out of that lmao

fiery is better for tartarus breakpoints if you know them

and ely eyeballs

[vagrant crane]

shadow becomes useful at like 7 bazillion heat if ur doing dem with eupper

[glacial sonnet]

ok i was offered ricochet fire while using hestia but im gna choose rocket and hope for cluster in elysium

the 3rd option was hazard bomb too

[eager flint]

yeah hestia loves clockets too

[glacial sonnet]

artemis attack and special

hopefully i can get aphro anyway in asphodel

[tight basin]

arty atk on hestia is fine

kinda lmao

[glacial sonnet]

78% maimed strike

oh wait good thing i can rocket

[vagrant crane]

chaos curses like that wont kill u

only leave u on 1hp

[glacial sonnet]

heart rend woo
oh wait my only delivery method for it crush shot

[tight basin]

sell it for money lmao

[vital night]

Dying lament

[glacial sonnet]

and parting shot

i mean i could hold on to heart rend if i could replace attack with aphro

or special

omg
curse is still on for lernie boss fight

heroic special

bah no cluster bombs

didnt notice theres no reroll on hammer

[vagrant crane]

society if you could roll hammers

[glacial sonnet]

hypersprint check
purple rd check

[tight basin]

gaming

[analog mauve]

I got hazard today

[glacial sonnet]

ok im set to fiery now
on sword

is arthur less effective on forced overtime or hard labor or smth or is it still great at high heat

[vagrant crane]

its not that good to start with and gets worse at higher heat

[glacial sonnet]

poseidon is more boon/luck dependent than nemesis isnt it

anyway im trying tdash gilga now
poseidon start, get zeus and athena next?

or athena first then zeus

[analog mauve]

why athena

[glacial sonnet]

this

also whats better typhoon fury or breaking wave

razor shoals is a must have right

[vital night]

Breaking

It’s good yeah

You just want as many secondaries as possible

[plain river]

Zeus >>> athena (she really just doesn’t work well on something like gilga strike

[glacial sonnet]

also forced to ares after poseidon

zeus attack on gilga still good?

[plain river]

flat damage works on gilga strike

since you’re dash striking more often then not

You have low base damage

so +% sucks where flat damage works

[analog mauve]

nothing on gilga strike is good

[glacial sonnet]

is battle rage still good on fists
also i can take blue ares attack now

[plain river]

That’s a product of gilga being bad but

[analog mauve]

but some things are less less good than others

[glacial sonnet]

i can pivot to ME maybe if i take ares attack?

[analog mauve]

in that case just start ares

[glacial sonnet]

is poseidon tdash no good

[analog mauve]

me is the best gilga build without a doubt

[analog mauve]

it is good

[glacial sonnet]

i mean tdash is still my only poseidon boon so far

[plain river]

Tdash is best damage dash and gilga is just dashing

but it’s kind of bad at it for an aspect that modifies dashing

[glacial sonnet]

ayy i found rending claws

is ME going to be bad if i dont have athena dash

should i just replace that ares attack with zeus when i have the chance

[tight basin]

always

on every aspect except zeus

[plain river]

How far are you in the run

[glacial sonnet]

ashpodel

which is better wave pounding or breaking wave

[plain river]

Breaking wave

[glacial sonnet]

bw vs hydraulic might?

[plain river]

BW as long as you have tdash

[eager flint]

breaking wave

[glacial sonnet]

ok

[eager flint]

why would you want hydraulic might ?

[glacial sonnet]

im like halfway thru asphodel and zeus hasnt offered replacement for attack

[plain river]

Wait it’s gilga

[eager flint]

90% of your damage doesn't come from your strikes or special

[glacial sonnet]

already slotted athena special too

[plain river]

Hydraulic might is dependent on

the aspect having a good base damage sttack/specia

[proper furnace]

trades are 10% to even be offered

so don't hope for the right one

[plain river]

Could possibly need to just ditch tdash instead

And commit to ME

if you roll into it before Elysium that’s probably 100% your gameplan

[untold iris]

what does poseidon's legendary do btw? i never really understood the text

i just pick it because orange boon

[plain river]

Depends on which one is it

[eager flint]

you push enemies away a second time after a delay

[untold iris]

but does it actually double damage from tidal dash?

[proper furnace]

no

[untold iris]

or is it just useless

[eager flint]

it's even more flipper than usual

[proper furnace]

just knockback

[plain river]

It just doubles the knockback

Which like

[eager flint]

well

[untold iris]

ok so it doesnt do anything vs bosses?

[plain river]

W/ bwsve

[proper furnace]

it does cause a 2nd sea storm proc tho

[plain river]

? It doubles your knockback

If anything it makes bwave wall funsies even more pheasible

[untold iris]

but bosses take basically 0 knockback anyways

[eager flint]

it doesn't double the knockback as much as knock them back a second time after a delay

[plain river]

Noob do you have to bwave clip

[proper furnace]

but also if you hit them with knockback again yourself it doesn't seem to do much

[glacial sonnet]

lol ok i got ME before lernie

[proper furnace]

uh which one

the dad one?

[plain river]

Dad one

[glacial sonnet]

do i get better chances for athena dash if i sell it and leave the slot empty?

[untold iris]

yes

[plain river]

Yeah

[eager flint]

yes

a lot

[glacial sonnet]

if i sell tdash*

[plain river]

Trades are only 10%

But a full empty core

is way way more likely

[untold iris]

10% x 1/4 for a specific swap if you have all cores filled

[glacial sonnet]

ok so ill just hope to sell it when i see a purging pool

[untold iris]

90% if you have that one core empty and all other cores filled

huge difference

[proper furnace]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/puu0he/am_i_allowed_to_deal_this_much_wall_slam_damage/ ended up finding it by using discord search on what you posted lmao

[glacial sonnet]

guess its also free money from the two knocback support boons i picked up

missed out on hydraulic might should have chosen that instead of bwave lol

[plain river]

@untold iris

[glacial sonnet]

pool of purging doesnt give me option to sell tdash

[proper furnace]

can you roll?

[glacial sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/guess-ill-die-gif-9704573

out of rolls lol

trying to get good hermes

[plain river]

Pray for trade of well ig

[proper furnace]

what else can you sell

[glacial sonnet]

do i grab athena keepsake

[plain river]

Always a good thing to use rolls on

[glacial sonnet]

i can sell bwave

the other thing to sell is ME and zeus cast

[plain river]

Keep zeus cast

[glacial sonnet]

i sell bwave

oh wait its typhoon fury

[plain river]

Even better

Less of a loss

[untold iris]

this kind of stuff seems pretty hyper-specific

[glacial sonnet]

do i get athena keepsake in elysium?

[plain river]

If you have pos legendary you either have bwave or you have typ fury

So you already get bonus wall slam

[glacial sonnet]

i can get the good athena stuff hopefuilly
though i have like a chaos rarity boost too

[plain river]

and it isn’t just dem that does this

Dem is just the best way imo

Cuz you get the most ctrl over direction

[proper furnace]

that's talos

[untold iris]

i question how good actually trying to set up wall slams vs heroes or dad is

instead of just hitting him

[proper furnace]

beaver is nice as a styx deleter

[untold iris]

also almost all the time my knockback is splash dash

i usually dont take poseidon on anything else

[proper furnace]

that vid is just silly cuz I don't think we know how to trigger it exactly

[untold iris]

(ok flood shot sometimes just to fill a boon)

[untold iris]

yeah i know that knockback can do weird things to bosses sometimes

ive seen a few clips before

but it seems hard/impossible to set up

and if you dont have the set up then it doesnt do much

if it was good/consistent I assume people would be using it in speedruns and stuff

[plain river]

It isn’t useless

But

It isn’t great either

and if you see it

[untold iris]

to me it seems like "you knock back twice" is mostly good for room clears and doesnt do much for bosses

[plain river]

You might as well take it because otherwise it’s messing up your duo/legendary odds

[proper furnace]

2nd wave is just free gold for me

[untold iris]

but idk how much the additional room clear benefit is given i probably already have tidal dash + knockback boon

better than nothing I guess

also maybe it kills tiny vermin

[plain river]

It’s situationally better than most pos secondaries on

the grounds that otherwise it contests any other duo you might have open w/ pos

[untold iris]

mostly when i see poseidon i only take tidal dash and ruptured

[glacial sonnet]

elysiums been offering me poseidon extras nonstop

not a single athena in sight

[untold iris]

and then maybe ill take other stuff if i keep getting poseidon boons but its not a priority for me

[plain river]

Idk you may be like darkness farming & looking for EA or you’re on a drunken build and would appreciate sweet nectar

[untold iris]

sure

[glacial sonnet]

are there good hammers for gilga

besides rending claws

[plain river]

Or it’s beo/achilles and yo mirage shot

[untold iris]

but at that point im not taking the legendary because its good

[plain river]

Only good one is breaching claw

[untold iris]

just to get it out of the way

tbh if I need mirage shot badly i will just not take the knockback secondaries

[plain river]

breaching cross

[plain river]

I mean on achilles where you’ve got tdash as you look for like hunting blades

Bwave is attractive

[glacial sonnet]

ok there right before styx i can sell my tdash

and only after i got second wave

do i make that into extra money too

lol gg nvm only boon sold at styx is another poseidon

only athena chamber didnt offer me dash

[proper furnace]

get used to the dash strike into dash upper combo now

tho with maim that seems annoying

[glacial sonnet]

gilga bad (excuse for dying)

[proper furnace]

not wrong about gilga

[glacial sonnet]

im better off with just zag fists so i can have some dodge chance while i ungabunga

oh ok NOW she offers me her dash

[plain river]

Gilga bad

[glacial sonnet]

whats a good 3rd and 4th god to go with ares and athena (ME)?

[untold iris]

artemis

tbh it doesnt really matter

but pressure points makes doom crit occasionally

and if you happen to get artemis cast or call you can take deadly reversal

which also makes doom crit

[plain river]

Ideally artemis cast

Although you only want to open DR once you have ME

[untold iris]

Yeah

ME is so late to come together usually that the other stuff is super secondary

[plain river]

Also since ME just works

You often don’t really need supporting gods or at least specific ones

Fill your god pool anwyasy buts still

[untold iris]

If I had to pick a perfect build, maybe Zeus Artemis for the other two gods?

But it doesn't really matter

[tight basin]

Zeus good for call and reflexes

Arty good for crits

Pos funny for CoD

[grand zenith]

You’re right but I’m angry.

[plain river]

Hi Angry I’m right

[tulip bolt]

Wow i just got what i think is the ultimate caster build. posiedon sword, artemist cast, hermes hold cast and greater recall. plus i have athena dash to top it off.

i can just dash around holding cast to clear any encounter and for bosses i just hit then with the special and i even got the increased range special upgrade

[eager flint]

That sure is a cast build of all times

[vital night]

You just need PP and EW for FL

Then it's even better

[south sonnet]

sadly its not even clsoe to beo

[eager flint]

what is close to beo tbh

hera ? ME ?

[tulip bolt]

dont even know what beo is lol, one of the hidden aspects? still very nice let me demolish hades within second on heat 16

[tight basin]

hera probably

ME isn't as good as a cast build

[eager flint]

huh

[tight basin]

ME is still good, it's just more splashable on everything

[tight basin]

not as good as a proper cast build*

[eager flint]

given how broken ME is, I guess I haven't played enough cast weapons

[tight basin]

like achilles doesnt use ME for a reason

[eager flint]

fair

[tight basin]

pos doesnt have a strong enough bonus to make a cast build better than ME on it tho lmao

[tight basin]

yes it's a hidden aspect

true shot pos sword is like

not bad but not good lmao

it's probably on the lower end of good builds that exist but it's still not bad

[tulip bolt]

im pretty sure it would still beat the game on almost any heat which seems like a good build to me but i guess there are even more op stuff ive yet to find.

[eager flint]

ok nooow you're reaching big time

[tight basin]

a lot of builds can work for up to like 32 heat or something

the weirder and less conventional it is the more you have to work for it

i did true shot pos sword for 32 heat iirc

[tulip bolt]

My second strongest so far is probably a spear build that had the 3 dash attack upgrade and stacked attack bonus till each dash attack did like 17 times the damage it usually did together with rupture and lighting and jolt

[eager flint]

yeah 32 heat is doable on most things, you'd really have to go out of your way to find the worst builds to really make it hardly doable

[tight basin]

theoretically what would be the worst build possible

[eager flint]

good question

I'm sure you can find some horrid aspect/hammer combinations

[tight basin]

gotta be on gilga right

or chiron?

[analog mauve]

first thing that comes to mind is sword

for the hammers

dash nova + cursed slash

and dem cast

rest boonless

[tight basin]

technically speaking isn't boonless better than like common dem atk

oh i guess i can still take acorn then

[analog mauve]

isnt keepsake part of the build

mirrorless keepsakeless boonless gilgamesh

[eager flint]

I think it should be something that can be done at full mirror/metaprogression

otherwise yeah it's too easy

don't forget to say it's lvl1 aspect too

[analog mauve]

yea

[tight basin]

if you dont use maim then level doesnt matter lmao

[eager flint]

maim has some uses, even if it really shouldn't make you take more damage ime

[fervent root]

So, guess what killed me last run..?

(the stupid tiny RAT..)

I was SO CLOSE to beating Hades without GM, damn…

So, I guess let’s not do Chaos’s Maimed Shot when you have Cursed Slash

[crude oriole]

typical tiny vermin moment, you'll get hades next time

w/o cursed slash maybe

[glacial sonnet]

dionysus special chiron good?

or maybe zag rail dio attack

[valid dagger]

Very good

Try to look for Aphrodite or Ares as second god and go for Low Tolerance or Curse of Nausea, really nice combo

[glacial sonnet]

ehh
whats a good non beam achilles build?

[tidal needle]

Flurry Jab with Poseidon Dash and Artemis Attack is quite fun

Depends on the good hammer tho

[eager flint]

you can also just go hunting blade

or most casts tbh

main issue is that most casts need a duo to be really good. Lightning phalanx, ice wine, hunting blade, crystal clarity

[glacial sonnet]

i got serrated point

[eager flint]

its serrating time

[glacial sonnet]

ima just put arte attack on bc i already have dem and arte for core

(i am going crystal cast again)

poseidon as 3rd god hoping for mirage shot

poseidon on achilles special?

is arte aid worth pomming

or just pray for crits from it

[glacial sonnet]

relentless volley > concentrated volley for dio special right?

[lucid oar]

Other way round

[glacial sonnet]

o dang really?
i thought more hangovers sent more good

damn no aphro-dio duo

yo tf is it normal for 51 dmg ares aid to shred superdad health from 50 to 0 in one greater call?

[lucid oar]

Not without rush delivery

[plain river]

Oh just don’t do cursed slash

That’s always the best option

[plain river]

I mean either way you aren’t stacking more then 5 without the duo

[glacial sonnet]

is there a cast build thats better only on poseidon than on other aspects like achilles beams?

[vagrant crane]

phalanx can be more prudent on pos

since u can dislodge if ur damage falls off

[glacial sonnet]

athena-zeus phalanx?

whats two more gods to complete it

[vagrant crane]

pos i guess

arty maybe

[glacial sonnet]

i c

is there also a good cast for achilles besides dem cast
inb4 its any

[vagrant crane]

it is any

dem cast sucks ass

do hunting blades

[eager flint]

dem cast goes brrr with 3 boons, blades go brrr with 2

[glacial sonnet]

dio butted in my athena-pos-(hopefully) zeus-arte run

[vagrant crane]

thats fine

[rocky arrow]

Have you heard of Achilles spear?

[vagrant crane]

yes

[glacial sonnet]

do i keep with 4 gods or try forcing arte w keepsake in elysium

[vagrant crane]

do you have the duo yet

[glacial sonnet]

which duo

[vagrant crane]

lightning phalanx

[glacial sonnet]

no

[vagrant crane]

dont increase ur pool

u want the duo

id hourglass

[glacial sonnet]

hourglass for rest of run?

[vagrant crane]

i wouldnt into styx

just make sure to check the well ebfore unequipping it

you can acorn or dad call or something

[glacial sonnet]

man this runs hammers are dogwater

[untold iris]

dad call you have to build max gauge right?

[vagrant crane]

y

[untold iris]

doesnt the small call only give you damage on one hit?

[vagrant crane]

no

[untold iris]

or am i wrong about that

[proper furnace]

is the invis that goes in 1 hit

[vagrant crane]

it gives you +100% global for 1.5s

[untold iris]

oh ok

so the wiki is just wrong then

rip

ive been using max call this whole time

[vagrant crane]

yeah

wiki sucks

[glacial sonnet]

whats full charge dad call do

[untold iris]

the wiki says: "While Invisible, Zagreus cannot be targeted, moves faster, and deals bonus damage for 2 seconds (or until he strikes)."

the "until he strikes" part really makes it seem like you lose the bonus after you attack

so I thought small call sucked really badly since it was damage on one hit

[vagrant crane]

dad call also makes enemies repeat their last attack

[glacial sonnet]

my only electric is on call is it still good to get jolted or i can get clouded judgement

[vagrant crane]

whats 3rd option

[glacial sonnet]

lightning reflexes

[vagrant crane]

what rarity

[glacial sonnet]

white

i have 3 rerolls

[vagrant crane]

wait

[glacial sonnet]

trial chamber tho so no duo

[vagrant crane]

oh

take jolt

higher duo chance on zeus

[glacial sonnet]

used up my last reroll on another chamber to get lightining phalna

oh wow lucky me patroclus jerky lasted just enough for the superdad fight

no braid of atlas sold ever though

[glacial sonnet]

artemis attack on rama bow good start? or zeus or dio special start

[rocky arrow]

Personally I go arty

Depends on what you’re focusing on

[glacial sonnet]

i mean i thought if i want to spam specials i might as well go chiron so if i pick rama i shuold consider the attack

[rocky arrow]

Yeah then arty

If no Zeus in tart get him in asphodel with keepsake

Then go for heart rend

Aphro keepsake in Elysium

[rocky arrow]

Put her on dash

[glacial sonnet]

Wb dio special tho it can tick damage while i position for the big noscope quigley shot

[proper furnace]

any flat dmg works

dio can work as it also works as a pom target

cuz arty poms are awful

[glacial sonnet]

No chance for lightning rod shenanigans too

[proper furnace]

rod is good tho

[tight basin]

You can still start with Zeus and pick up a good attack later

Namely Aphrodite or Artemis

[eager flint]

dem and athena are acceptable cope

but honestly at that point you'd probably just take shackle imo

[rocky arrow]

heart rend eris works right?

Arty attack, aphro special, maybe splash dash

[proper furnace]

do you mean hestia or you are trying to cook

[rocky arrow]

Cooking

[proper furnace]

that sounds miserable to play

% attack on rail is

spread fire helps but is not zag rail so 6 bullets is still annoying

[rocky arrow]

I mean I’ll try it, report how it goes

[eager flint]

what's the DPS on rail anyway

attack

Because like, a %dmg will do more on something that deal 10 every frame than something that deals 100 every 60 frames

[rocky arrow]

It was alright, nothing terrible just kinda slow

What about Lucifer hr or me?

I’m just word vomiting lol

[eager flint]

Lucifer ME sounds absolutely horrid

Huge start up lag, no hitstun, reloads and narrow hitbox

iirc it doesn't even pierce without a specific hammer

I feel like rama would be a better ME weapon

[hot belfry]

with doom on special and divine dash or something?

[eager flint]

With anything at this point lol

Like go for ME with curse of vengeance and phalanx shot and it would probably still work better than Lucifer ever could

[rocky arrow]

Rama has the fastest special right

I have just bad build ideas lol

[glacial sonnet]

starting rama bow with zeus special
got hammer start though
relentless volley or chain shot? wonder if i should still hammer for attack or special here

[eager flint]

attack imo

chain shot strong

what's the third option, out of curiosity ?

[glacial sonnet]

oh forgot already

also damn i suck at using attack lol
lost a dd just trying to shoot at tis

zeus 30dmg per special tick is clutch

ok relentless volley showed up again
but there's twin shot
i chose chain shot last time btw

[glacial sonnet]

i double down on chain + twin shot?

and yes im trying to dashstrike all the time

[eager flint]

yes, all the time, very much

[glacial sonnet]

does reduced range mean i charge up faster btw

[eager flint]

I think you take as long to full charge, it's just the range is reduced at all points

[glacial sonnet]

demeter good for 4th god btw?

[eager flint]

sure

[glacial sonnet]

caught zeus, dio, arte

ok twin strike and chain is dope af plus the shared suffering

its like playing doom eternal with only the destroyer blade

[eager flint]

it is

[glacial sonnet]

a bit slow but hits rly hard though im still not very good at dodging while using charging bows

40% greater evasion and 75% rd

whatever not like i can make best use of 0.7 seconds super speed with rama

no duos by end of elysium still though

only duo is lightning rod for my diobombs

[dapper harness]

you don't really need duo's on rama

but rod is nice extra dmg

[glacial sonnet]

ok just like for rama easier to start zeus and adapt for the percentage damage, same thing with eris right

[analog mauve]

zeus start yea

[glacial sonnet]

does meg have higher chance to spawn with or without extreme measures?

im gonna try fighting her mirrorless

shackle hestia

[dapper harness]

i think it's random

[glacial sonnet]

dang so ig her dialogue wont trigger unless its her up front

no meg

[plain river]

Same odds

[glacial sonnet]

the run i do right after refilling my mirror she shows up

[eager flint]

it do be like that sometimes

[glacial sonnet]

is 70dmg/sec from lightning rod a bigger deal than i thought

[proper furnace]

Is free dmg

And as always more zeus = better

[proper furnace]

You only need 1 cast for boiling

[glacial sonnet]

chain shot on rama is basically up to 3 free more triggers for shared suffering huh
last run didnt have chain only twin and it was way weaker i thought twin shot is the heavy lifter there

[proper furnace]

What was your 2nd hammer

Chain is not bad but you usually take perfect/point blank

[eager flint]

210 DPS is massive

especially for basically free

and then you add the fact that it scales with jolted and double strike

"aspect of rod" exists for a reason, it can carry a run alone

[glacial sonnet]

hmm

zeus... good????

[plain river]

yeah

I mean as always w/ Hades it depends

but generally yeah

[glacial sonnet]

Ok so dio special on chiron benefits from concentrated volley bc limit of 5 drunk stacks but on zeus special it should be reletnless right

[eager flint]

on zeus special it shouldn't be anything

you shouldn't play zeus special on chiron

[proper furnace]

Relentless doesn't get you kore zeus bolts

But also yeah don't play it

[glacial sonnet]

why tho do the zeus bolts not trigger per hit?

Zeus special got relatively big numbers iirc

[proper furnace]

zeus stuff have an internal cooldown

bolts are 0.2 seconds

chiron hits too fast

you get 1-2 bolts

[glacial sonnet]

dayum

[plain river]

Do you have a dps meter installed?

[glacial sonnet]

No

Idek what tht is

[plain river]

Kind of hard to actually tell numbers then

[plain river]

Measures how much damage things contribute over your run

is the main reason we know static discharge is strong

[glacial sonnet]

I mean like what kind of stuff do you install thag does that

[plain river]

Modding is predominantly a pc thing

Modding server is pinned in #self-promotion

[glacial sonnet]

Ohh ok big brain moment

I was thinking wait wdym you stick a meter into the game

[plain river]

But yeah I’m sure with one in

You’d see zeus doing a bit less work

[plain river]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/795659377755422742/989610739721441330/chiron_bow_spread_sheet.png?ex=65e0d8d2&is=65ce63d2&hm=89aee7f99b1c72af25bbd30433f7e31499e6c17f099a4ed777ebc859cf69e199&

Theres the impact of your hammers

Both combined like 4* your base damage

[glacial sonnet]

Ok so even concentrated with nothing else does more dmg then relentless?

[plain river]

yeah

You need like

4 arrrows on your special

Or 5 arrows

For relentless to be better

Level 1-3 chiron is practically playable though

[glacial sonnet]

btw rail is slow enough to trigger zeus bolts evey hit?

[vital night]

Yeah

[plain river]

Chain lightning is a .15s cooldown

compared to bolts

[glacial sonnet]

Yeah il try dio chiron or eris zeus again soon

[plain river]

I think swift strike upgrades /flurry fire might push it past the int cooldown though

[vital night]

Marginally more unplayable than max level Chiron

[plain river]

Chiron is unplayable while special focused from levels 1-3

chiron is always playable when strike focused

You even get better hammer odds

[vital night]

Lol yeah I suppose

[eager flint]

Keep in mind that if you are faster than the cooldown, it still means you are getting a proc every time the cooldown is up

If the CD is 20 frames, you'll get as many procs from attacking every frame as you'll do attacking every 20 frames

But yeah, Zeus special Chiron still sucks

[glacial sonnet]

eris
zeus attack
arte special
whats demeter good with

maybe eris boost + beam?

naah can just play achilles with that perhaps

i skip her chamber? maybe i can try force ares for hunting blades since i heard its easier to setup

[proper furnace]

I wouldn't force a cast build

You just want jolted/tidal dash and poms in both

[glacial sonnet]

skip demeter?

[proper furnace]

Yeah

[glacial sonnet]

dont have anything for chill stacking anyway

zeus attacks mean i constantly jolt right

[proper furnace]

Yeah

[proper furnace]

You only want dem if you don't have any special

As always is like ideally aphro/artemis
Any other % otherwise

[glacial sonnet]

athena chamber
can maybe get lightning phalanx and dash
but tdash is good but i dont have poseidon yet in tart

oh nvm went chaos and got a DOPE 40% boon rarity

lightning rod by chamber 9

[proper furnace]

Free olympian favor and legacy lmao

[glacial sonnet]

aah dont force a cast build by ares showed up via charon and gave me purple cast

purple reign baby

ok perhaps i can go without any keepsake forcing?

or maybe force poseidon or athena?

[proper furnace]

I'd go for the dash yeah

[glacial sonnet]

how good is razor shoals btw

[proper furnace]

Pretty good

Same deal as jolted where it's kinda hard to notice the dmg

[glacial sonnet]

oh hell forgot i have underworld customs

purging my purple

cant sell chaos boons i guess

uhh goodbye to...... slicing

gotta stockpile boons perhaps

40% boon rarity and hermes offers me what, quick favor, dash recover, and flurry cast

last reroll and it just offers the same things but in blue

[proper furnace]

Happens

What call you have, zeus'?

[glacial sonnet]

no clocket in ely hammer boo
ares call lol

i had pos keepsake but didnt pick up his only chamber in asphodel lmao

[proper furnace]

Was there nothing else to take

[glacial sonnet]

i took delta chamber

[proper furnace]

I meant with the call

[glacial sonnet]

also idk the other ares offerings iirc were like doom revenge or slicing dash

[proper furnace]

I'd have taken vengeance

[glacial sonnet]

judgment is a skill and i have issue of skill

pos cast or hydra might

[proper furnace]

Cast can help taking a dash later on

And ig it opens sea storm

Tbh either of those is getting sold at the next pool if it shows up

[glacial sonnet]

asterius fight

mirage shot

other options were like idk hunter dash and exit wounds

should i sell ares call or smth

[proper furnace]

Oh yeah you still have it, tbh yeah

[glacial sonnet]

sold it for UC

welp no poseidon at all in styx

zeus and ares galore

blade/thunder dash ?

[proper furnace]

Blade works

[glacial sonnet]

welp didnt got any offered

no dash no call

superdad time

OH WAIT ITS EM3 only

em4 is really that harder i guess

though idk lost a couple dd fighting em3 bcz i had a chaos curse lol

ok back to zeus bow specials since rama special also hits kinda fast isnt it also better with dio special? looks like rama special bounces its effect without needing zeus bolt too

been told i dont particularly need duos with a rama setup for the most part

[proper furnace]

Zeus works for rama cuz it's not your main dmg (but is basically weird rail if you wanna build around it)

Zeus mostly kills small stuff/jolted is always nice

Dio/ares also are nice just bc it's extra dmg

[glacial sonnet]

oh ye forgot jolted lol

but hangover dmg i guess?

could buff it with ares like you said
tho if i have to put doom on attack naah

[proper furnace]

I meant ares special

Also curse of vengeance opens the ares-dio duo too

[glacial sonnet]

oh yeah dont even need to apply doom too with it right

[proper furnace]

Right

If you are gonna use dio special you pretty much want poms in it

Hangover duos are also neat

[glacial sonnet]

had good use of artemis today but i havent rolled aphrodite today lol
gonna try using her instead of arte for attack

[tight basin]

any flat damage works on rama special

zeus just has more damage upfront and gets jolted

dio needs poms, and so does ares to an extent but the poms will fall off at a certain point

[glacial sonnet]

is increased rarity equal to a pom or smth
does rarity increase or decrease the gains per pom?

[proper furnace]

Rarity is just base dmg

Poms are always the same

[tight basin]

most of the time, +1 rarity is +1 pom, although there are some exceptions

but the pom scaling is always the same for the rarity

the exceptions are mainly aphrodite and ares attack/special

their commons are sad as hell

common aphrodite is still better than rare dem/athena tho lmao

[plain river]

Rarity has no bearing on pom scaling

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/795659377755422742/1087177322844663898/output.png?ex=65dbe148&is=65c96c48&hm=a36eefae23ec24a44a445bacefd0877a52acad9acc646787b1a96899a7f36243&

[plain river]

This repeats for every other pommable boon

[vital night]

Is there a list of damage sources that are additive vs multiplicative?

[vagrant crane]

damage sources that are multiplicative: trap damage

other things that are multiplicative: movespeed, damage reduction

[untold iris]

crit is multiplicative as well

increasing base damage/doing multiple hits is effectively multiplicative

for example charged shot increasing bull rush damage from 40 -> 80 is effectively a multiplicative x2 scaling increase since all your flat scaling now scales the 80 number instead of 40