If anything greater calls are slightly weird with iframes iirc
#h1-builds-and-combat
glacial sonnet
good to know
think ill try another run with guan yu
i mean at least from skelly testing it still has more dmg per hit than lvl 5hades boosted attacks but less hp and all that
glacial sonnet
with aphro cast on hera do i use stygian or infernal soul?
glacial sonnet
does quick reload interact with hera bow? maybe i can get the legendary for automatically picking up casts or maybe nah?
other option is swift attack or special
i put athena on special just for having deflects 
i have flurry shot too
oh man zeus on attack would be nice with faster attack
glacial sonnet
what do i take from hermes
eager flint
it's not like you want your poms to go into jolted when you have a sweet cast waiting for them
glacial sonnet
got all purples from erebus
eager flint
quick reload
glacial sonnet
alright
eager flint
or roll for hyper delivery
quick reload is useful on hera, at least. The others not that much
glacial sonnet
ooh parting shot
other option is replacing athena special or dying lament
frost attack on demeter?
other option is ravenous will but i oneshot most things that arent a boss i think
proper furnace
does quick reload interact with hera bow? maybe i can get the legendary for auto...
The drop timer stacks
And it shows on hera's tooltip
Is nice if you can't wallbug consistently
glacial sonnet
rly it does nothing on loaded casts? dang
proper furnace
It does dmg but is just annoying to backstab
eager flint
I think it's finnicky too
proper furnace
Phalanx shot instead is kinda funny with hera + parting shot tho
eager flint
So it basically does nothing. BUT... 450 M O N E Y
proper furnace
It's hitbox is so big (and hera releases the cast slightly forward) that it just hits the back from the front
glacial sonnet
anyway dem attack or pick rw regardless?
also i was offered a heroic phalanx lol
eager flint
what's the third one ?
eager flint
oof
that opens cold fusion though
maybe try to get smoldering air before getting jolted ?
proper furnace
I mean, doesn't really matter unless your cast is going terrible
glacial sonnet
i have purple lv8 crush shot im good on that i think lol
also lool chaos offers me defiance
cant pick up casts though so maybe not
lets go for better boons
glacial sonnet
ok i sold parting shot for 420 obol
eager flint
gaming
glacial sonnet
no cold fusion 
hexed compass
does zeus cast work well with bow of hera?
glacial sonnet
does doom stack without that one extra boon?
says here guan yu can actually work with ME
use the spin attack to apply doom(s?) then trigger it with athena special
otherwise im just gonna try aphro or artemis guan-yu
maybe artemis special
plain river
does doom stack without that one extra boon?
Nope
if it did, dire misfortune would be useless
dire misfortune also just adds to the current dooms damage
So it’s not exactly stacking
glacial sonnet
is it better to get quick spin or extended jab for guan-yu?
fwiw i put serrated dash already so maybe spin for heals?
glacial sonnet
got 68% attack from chaos
serrated point go brr?
wow charon not selling any boons in styx
poms for days
and to think i skipped out on sweet nectar for boiling point
is boiling point worth pomming though?
60 -> 87%
proper furnace
I don't think so tbh
Also this is gy so getting hit already will charge a large chunk anyways
crude oriole
more like reload - dash out of the reload animation - shoot - repeat
glacial sonnet
ayy found rare crystal beam
i can memebeam on the side yeah?
already got artemis on attack
is purple clean kill worth it for hestia artemis?
or i could just grab her (common) call
proper furnace
Tbh I'd do it
glacial sonnet
trueshot?
proper furnace
With arte attack you want any bonus % for it lol
And beams don't get you boiling blood
glacial sonnet
yeah i got rare crop on arte attack and ill get poms on it when i can
so no crystal beam then
only have arte attack and dem cast rn
proper furnace
yeah i got rare crop on arte attack and ill get poms on it when i can
Don't bother with poms
Arte pom scaling is awful
crude oriole
uc is underworld customs, pact condition that makesyou sell a boon each region
glacial sonnet
i dont have uc so idk
100 damage cast with crit...
oh yeah boiling blood huh
does swift strike speed up reloading?
probably not
quick reload then?
eager flint
What's third
proper furnace
I'd roll for sprint
eager flint
Because holy Hades those suck
glacial sonnet
quick recovery
eager flint
Ah
eager flint
Yeah ofc
glacial sonnet
true shot not worth pomming?
ill just pom zeus call then
so i guess cast is just there for lodging reasons
analog mauve
thats what its for in 99% of builds
glacial sonnet
hermes boons offer so bad
swift strike or special
quick cast
ran out of rerolls
what does faster special even do on rail? does the bomb go faster? reload?
proper furnace
Cooldown is faster between specials
vital night
Oh nvm
glacial sonnet
hunters mark pom?
or just more poms for zeus
74 -> 86 still dont seem too big? but then maybe it counts more with hestia
aphro not offering special
vital night
hunters mark pom?
or just more poms for zeus
What’s your zeus
vital night
Smair?
vital night
Hestia is rough to get call gauge on without smair tbh
glacial sonnet
i just use zeus call when enemies are too close right
vital night
If I have smair I use it on cooldown
If not, I save for iframes
Or if you’re swarmed with small peeps
proper furnace
I'd just dash into the enemies
glacial sonnet
support fire useless on hestia probably
no to common artemis special
last option is hunter instinct?
what is up with my boon rolls
analog mauve
common artemis special is good
proper furnace
Arte rarity doesn't matter like ever
vital night
Common Artemis anything is indistinguishable from epic Artemis anything
proper furnace
You are still either hitting like a wet noodle or overkill most of the time
vital night
Real
glacial sonnet
elysium gonna grab ares keepsake hoping for Battle rage
proper furnace
What are your hammers btw
glacial sonnet
so far only ricochet fire
so i can occasionally splatter two guys
do i bother with a bomb hammer?
or 2nd hammer at all
proper furnace
Hazard bomb is great
proper furnace
I'd just acorn
glacial sonnet
huh
proper furnace
I don't think battle rage is worth forcing/black shawl is what
30%?
(legit question I never use that thing)
glacial sonnet
no hazard bomb
do i get trageting system or cluster bomb
tight basin
True
glacial sonnet
good god
enshrouded
+1 cast
maiming
chaos pls
1hp from using maiming
cant die from curse
no patroclus 💀
not a very lucky run
had to go through all satyr tunnels
no smair
unholy luck
2 dd left
vs superdad
proper furnace
Winnable
lean hornet
explosive upper dem fists feels crazy it almost instaphased alecto boonless
eager flint
Yes
glacial sonnet
nem sword time
arte attack?
glacial sonnet
... or maybe i try memebeam achilles first for superdad
is it better to have artemis first or demeter on keepsakes?
proper furnace
If you wanna go full beams start dem
Few poms are nice/maybe you'll see glaciar glare earlier
If you don't mind maybe swapping to blades can start arte
glacial sonnet
wow interesting choice of chambers
hammer chamber, erebus pom, or chaos
got crystal beam first boon
ehh going casts anyway
proper furnace
You are on stygian right
glacial sonnet
yeah
3casts
wait
oh im on infernal/3casts
got arte special
lmao 3rd boon crystal clarity
good reroll
fringe summit
Yeah, level 11 heroic Aphro cast on Hera Bow slaps 🤣
glacial sonnet
does rush delivery work off of any bonus speed currently active? if i have greater haste but standing still do i still get the bonus
glacial sonnet
question again: does targeting system on rail means enemies hit by the special slow down?
idk how the targeted works not like its a tracking bomb
analog mauve
i think its the enemies that are inside the circle when you release the special
glacial sonnet
oh right i think i do see some swirling circles around them
so artemis attack improves attack (duh) does it include dash strike? so it would stack with artemis dash too right? which should only affect dash strike
glacial sonnet
is artemis attack overkill on nemesis sword? 45% critical hit chance
i can replace with athena attack
50% damage increase on epic artemis, can change to a heroic athena for 130% damage
i also have hunters mark so
glacial sonnet
do i put athena dash now or wait for artemis dash
eager flint
Just, you'll usually want aphro attack instead. Or if you're a madman like me, try to get both deadly reversal and heart rend, for maximum greediness
glacial sonnet
i got chaos 77% attack boon
eager flint
Depends if you're comfortable not using Athena dash
glacial sonnet
eh ill take the protection
glacial sonnet
cant find any legendary or duos from the triple A gods despite having them all in core since asphodel
eager flint
It do be like that sometimes
Honestly given how much I get away with being greedy I might have stolen all your duos
Idc about legendaries though, so you can have those
glacial sonnet
satyr sack chamber, what does dio offer
strong drink, exclusive access, or peer pressure
not a single legendary or duo this run too
besides EA or sweet nectar
proper furnace
That 3-5% globak dmg is gonna carry
glacial sonnet
blizzard shot and talos fist = y?
fringe summit
When you are already on 4 different Gods, does selling one of them "frees" up the spot again?
analog mauve
no
glacial sonnet
does fiery presence work on yellow hp too? does it mean that fiery presence can work twice on a single enemy (yellow bar, red bar)
plain river
does fiery presence work on yellow hp too? does it mean that fiery presence can ...
Just first hit
armoured or not
it’ll only prok once on a given enemy
fervent root
So I recently did Stubborn Defiance… I don’t like it… any suggestions?
plain river
still better to take over shadow
plain river
So I recently did Stubborn Defiance… I don’t like it… any suggestions?
It takes a while to get used to tbh
proper furnace
Check your charon wells as always
glacial sonnet
man ive been sleeping on hestia rail for too long
plain river
you may even want to try it at 20 heat for a bit before you just throw yourself at 32
Just like adjusting to forced overtime 2
fervent root
You guys have any tips with SD? I remember only getting to Elysium once with it.
Also which aspect should I do next on the Blade? Since it has Darker Thirst.
proper furnace
Is this sd + lc4 or nah
fervent root
Well first of all, idk what LC is so…
proper furnace
Lasting consequences (less/no healing)
(pact abbreviations in #h1-high-heat-strategies pins)
fervent root
Oh I figured as much… I was like: wait… the mirror or pact?
proper furnace
Well the tip I still think it applies without lc but kess relevant
proper furnace
But basically get used to proc it on purpose if you see your hp fall below 30%
It makes more sense when lc4 is in play where sd is your only heal (outside of max hp)
fervent root
Ahh… I understand now.
proper furnace
And if the reward is a heart, and below the hp threshold, proc sd then grab the heart
That will get you more hp
The main trick for sd is the athena DD boons (last and deathless stand)
If you use sd, then grab either of those, you'll get one defiance then stubborn is back next room
So you get an extra live pretty much
fervent root
DD meaning damage dealt or death defiance?
proper furnace
Death defiance yeah
fervent root
I haven’t tried LC yet but I should soon…
proper furnace
Other than that, patroclus with sd is more busted tbh
(it gives a +50% healing buff to sd)
fervent root
So, I’m used to the mirror’s DD but I guess it’s worth a shot…
fervent root
I should mention that I’m still getting used to no dmg reduction now…
proper furnace
It'll be easier with practice
Sd is basically easier rooms but demands clean boss fights
fervent root
Yeah, I’ve been using GM for mostly practice anyway.
fervent root
Sd is basically easier rooms but demands clean boss fights
Yea, that I have to work on.
plain river
I haven’t tried LC yet but I should soon…
I mean it’s the main reason you turn on sd
fervent root
I mean it’s the main reason you turn on sd
Ok, I figured that out.
plain river
Yeah, I’ve been using GM for mostly practice anyway.
Oh yeah that’s a big enough jump by itself
proper furnace
Yeah, I’ve been using GM for mostly practice anyway.
How high is your god mode now?
plain river
Ok, I figured that out.
You’re literally jumping straight from 5* hp to .3* hp
fervent root
I mean you don’t get extra HP, but I get the idea. It’s like if you do though, if I understand correctly.
plain river
For the majority of your run
~depending on how long do don’t get hit for
fervent root
How high is your god mode now?
I capped it to 80% actually.
plain river
Yeah so 5* the hp
proper furnace
Biiig jump then
fervent root
Yeah, I’d think so, lol.
fervent root
I mean I literally tried dying in the last run without GM, damn what an adjustment! I guess that’s what practice is for.
fervent root
I wonder if it’s more productive to adjust to regular gameplay
Yeah, for most of my runs, I used DD almost all the time.
plain river
I mean you don’t get extra HP, but I get the idea. It’s like if you do though, i...
Lc4 and sd are synonomous in my mind srry
fervent root
Lc4 and sd are synonomous in my mind srry
Nah, it’s ok. I am still learning a lot in this game. But I’m used to intense action packed games so this shouldn’t be too troublesome… in theory.
plain river
Yeah but I wonder if the difficult jump handled in stages would work better
fervent root
Probably…
plain river
especially since you start turning on hard labour around the same heats you turn on lasting consequences
fervent root
TBF, I actually tried LC and HL twice.
fervent root
No, not that high.
Pretty sure it was GM, but I’d have to look at the security log for that…
Maybe it wasn’t idk…
plain river
Either way
You don’t have to have them on for 32, it’s just recommended over other pact options
plain river
You don’t have to have them on for 32, it’s just recommended over other pact opt...
Or need to have them maxxed
Tips for getting used to it is
hard
A lot of it is practice
Since your brain needs to know “hey I really can’t afford to take damage as much as I used to”
analog mauve
using hl with godmode is kind of redundant
its the same as taking it off
they cancel each other out
plain river
taking double damage when you take 1/5 of the damage
2/5th of the damage still
or even less if it’s not hl5
analog mauve
oh yea thats significant
plain river
0.24-0.4*
Instead of 1.2-2
Although if you’re playing with godmode on often enough I think it may still feel like the same difference
vital night
I haven’t tried LC yet but I should soon…
I would say try to get used to not using god mode first
After that, LC4 and SD is kinda just standard for heat
fervent root
I would say try to get used to not using god mode first
Yeah, that’s my plan. I was only going to use GM for the first ten clears, anyway. I just personally wanted to see Persephone get reunited with the family…
vital night
Personally, I feel more locked in on the game when I’m sub 30% hp because I’m more aware of my mistakes and more responsible about why I made them
fervent root
but also can we talk about how good In The Blood is hearing it for the first during the credits! Magical moment.
vital night
It’s quite nice yeah
proper furnace
Fatessss, weave their threads~~
manic creek
Our lives are sewn~~
errant narwhal
but also can we talk about how good In The Blood is hearing it for the first dur...
It’s so good. Made me tear up a little not gonna lie it was very rewarding watching the credits after hundreds of hours of early access
On the coast makes me just 
fervent root
On the coast makes me just <:sobclair:1129037375398490196>
Fair… it never made me tear up but man, it made me feel emotional though.
I remember the first time I heard that track, the perfect song for the sunrise in the background of Greece.
fervent root
It’s so good. Made me tear up a little not gonna lie it was very rewarding watch...
Especially when we the player get to SEE Charon row across the River Styx while Persephone and Zagreus are on the ride. Great and maybe one of the best moments in the game, or videos games alone.
fervent root
Especially when we the player get to SEE Charon row across the River Styx while ...
I don’t know, it just felt great! And that PAINTING… bravo for Jen Zee’s and many artists work.
void moss
On cast builds, does it matter what I put on my attack like on Beowolf for example? Should I just stack damage on cast?
proper furnace
Artemis attack + cshot can do some dmg every once in a while but you mainly grab it to open mirage shot
plain river
On cast builds, does it matter what I put on my attack like on Beowolf for examp...
Attack is typically something that pairs up well with thecast
Like artemis w/ flood flare beo for mirage shot
Or artemis with blade shot for hunting blades on achilles
proper furnace
Aschually, is slicing shot
plain river
Artemis also just works well with the massive innate +% of the aforementioned
void moss
I guess a better question would be, do I treat attack as utility and stack as much damage on cast as possible or a somewhat decent damage spread between attack and cast?
plain river
I mean artemis works to boost the cast and the attack on the aforementioned aspects
Since they have a +100% to your rush or +150% to attack/cast in their kit
Her crit chance pairs nicely
void moss
Oooo, neat! Thanks for all the info so far.
void moss
Hmmm, Would you go for Hunter's Mark or Deadly Reversal from the boon list? What has a greater chance of appearing again?
south sonnet
Hmmm, Would you go for Hunter's Mark or Deadly Reversal from the boon list? What...
mark
void moss
Gotcha!
plain river
Hmmm, Would you go for Hunter's Mark or Deadly Reversal from the boon list? What...
Duos have a way lower chance of rolling then ordinary boons
south sonnet
technically they have a higher chance if you just get the luck
ivory turtle
help
uh
twin shot rama using a dash strike build
should I take explosive or chain shot
eager flint
whichever you want
but know that explosive means you'll never gonna fully charge your bow again
you're just gonna bonk enemies in melee with it like a staff basically lol
ivory turtle
tbh might take explosive, it's funny and I got an epic dash strike boon from chaos
but also bouncy attack
idk
probably taking explosive
i also have heart rend
these crits gon chonk
tight basin
should I take explosive or chain shot
explosive is pretty horrid on rama
it can be fun but yeah you're never charing a full shot ever again
chain is a pretty good hammer imo
ivory turtle
Tbh I probably should've gone with chain lol
fringe summit
Does anyone know if Chaos' +Attack% works on Ares' Curse of Agony?
fringe summit
Ah ok, thanks
worthy jasper
What happens if I take the ares boon with more damage but delayed effect, but also have the aphrodite duo that turns it into a dot?
eager flint
Both stacks, but curse of longing has diminishing returns so it still sucks
plain river
Does anyone know if Chaos' +Attack% works on Ares' Curse of Agony?
Any sort of strike specific +% won’t affect flat damage boons
Same thing with special
you need global +% for that (rush delivery from hermes, priviledged status/family favourites from mirror, ferocious guard on shield, eris rail, etc)
Or in doom’s case, impending doom
glacial sonnet
is hestia the easiest aspect to grind thanatos keepsake? also if arthur is also good for shackle (sisyphus) kepsake
proper furnace
Hestia def works for butterfly
That said is kinda a bad keepsake (unless you want the achievement)
glacial sonnet
i wanna see all them 3 stars on keepsakes
could be worse i could be grinding the keepsake for orpheus and dusa
proper furnace
Fair on all of that
glacial sonnet
also instead of aphro cast for hera im thinking i could go poseidon for faster mirage shot access
gonna warm up on a stronger build before trying the odd keepsakes
proper furnace
You don't need mirage with crush shot 
Ig you kinda need it to make up the dmg if you are going flood
glacial sonnet
idk i got a pretty meh run last time with aphro cast hera but maybe im not stacking enough buffs on it or smth
glacial sonnet
i also underappreciated the run where i got quick cast drop bc i really suffered vs superdad on the last run with hera
does blizzard shot work on hera cast
probably even worse downtime than waiting for diobombs
tart dudes with benefits package can survive hera triple aphro casts damn
proper furnace
Bruiser moment
glacial sonnet
i think im hooked on how fast hestia gets good so early in runs just with the reload shot alone
also finally an early sweet nectar lol
instead of being offered the thing at like styx
chaos not giving any cast boons again
enshrouded for cast damage huh
35% cast damage or +1 cast?
nvm +1 cast is basically 100% more damage amirite
enshrouded for 10 chambers
right so parting shot doesnt work on hera aphro shot?
proper furnace
It should work afaik, just annoying to use
If it doesn't work just by shooting normally try to undershoot so the arrow doesn't hit the enemy
glacial sonnet
also how about blown kiss?
glacial sonnet
interesting
proper furnace
Blown kiss is a pain if you have flurry shot
glacial sonnet
i could sell both or maybe just one of them?
oh yeah i have flurry shot lol
maybe i could sell blown kiss at least
proper furnace
Yeah I'd sell
proper furnace
i also underappreciated the run where i got quick cast drop bc i really suffered...
Time to learn wallbugging
glacial sonnet
whats that
also from shackles wording this means i can still carry boons and benefit from the keepsake as long as the core slot isnt occupied?
proper furnace
whats that
also from shackles wording this means i can still carry boons and ben...
Shoot to a wall in certain angles and the cast won't lodge
proper furnace
whats that
also from shackles wording this means i can still carry boons and ben...
Yeah, and each slot is separated
So you'll have the attack bonus even if special/cast are filled
glacial sonnet
artemis dash doesnt disable shackle? 👀
proper furnace
Shoot to a wall in certain angles and the cast won't lodge
proper furnace
artemis dash doesnt disable shackle? 👀
Nope
glacial sonnet
dope
glacial sonnet
So you'll have the attack bonus even if special/cast are filled
oh this also means things like battle rage and chaos dont disable the shackle bonus too then?
eager flint
indeed
eager flint
shackle is pretty good all in all. It's sometimes optimal, though you'll usually want a boon instead to liberate your keepsake slot
but I'm sure if you look at 50+ heat runs you will find a fair amount of shackles
glacial sonnet
ok now these gods keep offering me purple attack and special boons
lol got pressure points
maybe i can pom it and have ghetto super artemis attack in effect
proper furnace
Just grab hunter's mark
rocky arrow
Eris build advice?
rocky arrow
Bet
glacial sonnet
talos fist
get poseidon cast, athena special and ares attack
no ME, no curse of drowning, get what instead
sea storm and my only knockback tool is my cast
concentrated knuckle being good after talos special better be worth it
whats the strongest fist builds besides ME anyways
glacial sonnet
still works on talos?
glacial sonnet
im guessing demeter is the strongest so far
proper furnace
yup
glacial sonnet
at the start i loved the fist and found rail janky but its reversed by now lol
untold iris
if your file is newer you can just use zag fists
almost the same weapon and takes no titans blood
glacial sonnet
i tblooded all the fists now
untold iris
ok then demeter is technically the best
glacial sonnet
im gonna see if zeus talos is still good
does zeus attack work on the first target too though?
analog mauve
Fists is rail but without any of the benefits
glacial sonnet
zeus attack sounds like it only does its extra damage to another foe with the chain lightning
or does the enemy hit get lightning'd too?
analog mauve
It hits the enemy u hit
glacial sonnet
oh ok
analog mauve
Otherwise I guess it would kind of suck lol
untold iris
zeus attack is just the most flexible starting boon
glacial sonnet
i died to superdad with weird talos athena-ares-poseidon duoless jank
untold iris
gives you good damage and aoe
glacial sonnet
gonna try all the zeus now
untold iris
also zeus has some pretty good boons to aim for
glacial sonnet
if im going all zeus whats the best supplemental gods to get?
untold iris
jolted, billowing strength, legendary, a lot of good duos
glacial sonnet
besides aphro smair ig
untold iris
you can build towards whatever shows up
proper furnace
if you are running infernal soul can go for lightning rod
glacial sonnet
dash striking all over the place is also good for fists in general right
untold iris
dash striking all over the place is also good for fists in general right
if you want to practice combos
the bread and butter combo is dash strike into dash upper
proper furnace
with zeus you can use the combo
glacial sonnet
is zeus dash good tho
untold iris
if you press the buttons fast enough you can get both a dash strike and a dash upper to come out in the same dash
proper furnace
decent if you get all the zeus but I wouldn't take it
proper furnace
just slap divine/tidal/blade dash if you want dmg but no knocback
untold iris
zeus dash does very low damage
but can potentially apply jolted, which is the main selling point
but if you have zeus attack
you are already applying jolted to everything
so the dash boon isnt very attractive
untold iris
tbh dio fists isnt the worst thing in the world
weird playstyle though since you want to stack hangover and then switch targets when clearing rooms
instead of sitting their beating up the same enemy until it dies
glacial sonnet
concentrated knuckle or quake cutter? or draining cuttrer
apparently quake cutter can get buffed by talos special
does concentrate knuckle go up +5 baes damage forever per hit?
eager flint
nah
it's within a combo
no dash strike
I quite like it still personally, but I didn't run DPS comparisons or whatever
untold iris
none of these hammers do anything too impactful
if one of them is a fated list then just pick that one
if not then i guess i would take concentrated knuckle
but since it doesnt work on dash strike its not a huge difference
eager flint
oh, precision : I quite like it with %dmg on attack, which you shouldn't do on fists except for memes
glacial sonnet
should i get scintillating feast or static discharge now then force demeter for cold fusion maybe in asphodel?
my special is still empty too so idk maybe i can get jolt later
untold iris
Cold fusion is almost useless since your Zeus is on attack
Like how often is the enemy not going to be jolted?
vagrant crane
cold fusion has 1 use case
em3 bull
it can be pretty cool there
otherwise its kinda useless
unless ur jolted is on like eshot or something
then u can get some better uptime for it
not really a major build target
untold iris
What's the big synergy with asterius?
vagrant crane
em3 bull does the spin thing
untold iris
Is his spin many attacks?
vagrant crane
jolted proc for each rotation
worthy jasper
I think cold fusion is overall pretty good. Goes off on every attack now.
vagrant crane
well at least it hink it does
worthy jasper
It's just especially good in that particular case.
untold iris
But like, just reapply jolted?
vagrant crane
i have not confirmed thats what i heard from i believe kontra
but yeah most of the time its kinda useless
you're attacking anyways
untold iris
There aren't that many instances where you cant just hit them again before their next attack
worthy jasper
You're not always jolting.
untold iris
If it's on fists or rail? You are almost hitting them
eager flint
You often are
worthy jasper
Also if for some reason you have privileged status which I had once by mistake, it doesn't fall off.
untold iris
The main use case is if your Zeus is on a secondary button like cast
worthy jasper
I often have zeus call and nothing else.
untold iris
If Zeus is on your primary then cold fusion barely matters
worthy jasper
Cold fusion makes it last until the next time you hit call
untold iris
i mean yes, thats why we said that cold fusion is useless unless your jolted is on a weird button like cast (or call)
if you only have zeus call and jolted then cold fusion does stuff
worthy jasper
That's not a particularly infrequent occurrence. Zeus call is generically good and having Zeus on anything gives burgeoning strength. Which works well with such a spammable call.
glacial sonnet
ok so forget cold fusion i got ice wine and scint feast
this talos build is now a diobomb build
worthy jasper
That's actually not a bad use of talos is it?
vagrant crane
with only call double strike is a better t2 than joled
worthy jasper
Draw stuff in, hit em with dio bomb.
glacial sonnet
come to think of it talos is like a worse eris
or whatever cast buff for dionukes
untold iris
@vagrant crane how good is ruptured btw?
from my experience it feels like a very important boon to pick once you have splash dash, but i havent actually looked at its impact so im not sure how much its actually doing for my runs
untold iris
it feels like jolted tier to me
worthy jasper
For most bosses, including Hades, while you're moving, the boss is moving.
vital night
Jolted good
worthy jasper
Ruptured is just a regular dot at that point.
untold iris
at first i thought it was not that useful, but i realized it applies on knockback as well
worthy jasper
Also what is "jolted tier"? Jolted is good.
untold iris
and it feels like it helps with room clear a lot as a result
you just dash into enemies, get the dash damage + rupture damage
vital night
Jolted is really nice especially on FO2 and bp
untold iris
i dont notice it as much vs bosses
vagrant crane
Also what is "jolted tier"? Jolted is good.
i assume it means a very good t2
untold iris
yeah, as in a high priority to pick
vital night
Oh
untold iris
once you have the requisite core boon
vital night
Mb then i misunderstood
worthy jasper
Like what's the thing again?
vagrant crane
cause status effect t2s have a 50% chance to be forced per slot if you dont have them
untold iris
right now if I have splash dash i will typically reroll for ruptured if it doesnt show
vagrant crane
blinding flash, jolted, shoals, marked
untold iris
just making sure its actually good enough to do that
worthy jasper
Static Discharge, Razor Shoals, Tidal Dash, Sea Storm, some global modifiers, 2x bolt boon?
vagrant crane
?
glacial sonnet
rolling or long knuckle?
vagrant crane
anyways i think rolling for it is a harder choice
like i said it has a reasonably high chance of occurring
worthy jasper
Like those things together really power up tidal dash, no?
vagrant crane
long knuckle btw
glacial sonnet
does the longer fist range help or do i get the dash strike added to attack sequence idk what that does exactly
untold iris
tbh you dont need much besides tidal dash and ruptured
vagrant crane
rolling knuckle is garbage
worthy jasper
Isn't more better?
vagrant crane
u have to factor in ease of obtaining and relative gain
untold iris
well yeah if you happen to get all the synergies its better
but getting all the synergies is hard
vagrant crane
sea storm is fake
untold iris
it might accidentally happen on like rail or fists
worthy jasper
I think sea storm saved my scuffed hestia run.
untold iris
but its not a big focus
vagrant crane
idk what kinda hestia run ur taking a pos core that opens sea storm
untold iris
ok other question I have, how good is blinding flash?
the other three secondary status is good
but i havent noticed blinding flash doing anything really
worthy jasper
I wasn't confident so I got pos cast as a backup.
vagrant crane
it can be fine
but like
backstab is not useful for most situations
comapred to fiery
worthy jasper
Not like the cast is important.
untold iris
i usually just pick blinding flash anyways since i dont want to reroll and it makes death defiances more likely to show up in the future
but i havent really noticed it being that impactful
worthy jasper
Exposed is better than no exposed.
Not better than some other choices you can make.
untold iris
tbh i feel like most of athena's boons arent that impactful
worthy jasper
But still it'll make your build better.
vagrant crane
ill take sure footing or a useless dd over it most of the time
it kinda dilutes pom pool
untold iris
but dash + death defiances are both really valuable
so i like seeing her in my pool anyways
worthy jasper
I don't take death defiances if I'm not out of uses yet.
untold iris
it kinda dilutes pom pool
oh, i need to get better at considering this
worthy jasper
Lernie tax hasn't been hitting as much recently
Also I failed my last chiron run because I got all the wrong duos sadge.
untold iris
dont open up non-important duos
worthy jasper
Sometimes it's a bit hard not to.
untold iris
thats the most basic build advice
any bad duo you open up basically immediately cuts your chances of getting a good duo in half
worthy jasper
Yeah but sometimes it's hard not to.
Like if you're taking Artemis for heart rend but Zeus for smoldering air, then you also open up lightning rod.
untold iris
well if you're not on a cast build then you dont open up lightning rod
since you are using stygian soul
untold iris
it increases the odds of getting a good hermes boon
vagrant crane
Like if you're taking Artemis for heart rend but Zeus for smoldering air, then y...
lr is the best of these 3 duos
untold iris
is LR actually the best of the 3?
worthy jasper
I'm not sure why you'd give up infernal soul just for a small odds increase of a good hermes boon.
eager flint
because a good hermes boon is double damage
untold iris
i usually only use heart rend on nemesis
vagrant crane
because its really good
worthy jasper
Heart rend makes crit builds less mid.
untold iris
hermes is broken
extra dash is very good for weapons that rely on dash strikes for primary dps
worthy jasper
But why would you give up infernal soul for that?
vagrant crane
its more for rd
untold iris
and rush delivery is a busted dps increase
infernal vs stygian barely matters on non-cast builds
glacial sonnet
once again diobombs do more heavy lifting than my weapon aspect build
untold iris
so why not use the one that gives slightly more odds for broken hermes?
worthy jasper
Don't you want to, you know, put a bloodstone into the enemy?
untold iris
stygian can lodge as well
eager flint
so why not use the one that gives slightly more odds for broken hermes?
it do be like that sometimes
aspect of rod at home
ok, at home from wish
vagrant crane
Don't you want to, you know, put a bloodstone into the enemy?
u can still cast with stygian
worthy jasper
They do?
untold iris
its just that stygian doesnt drop to the ground after it unlodges
vagrant crane
yes
untold iris
instead you have to wait for the stygian cooldown
worthy jasper
Why did nobody tell me this? It's not like I never read a guide.
vagrant crane
Why did nobody tell me this? It's not like I never read a guide.
i think most people assume it will lodge
untold iris
but stygian technically is better i think since hermes is so impactful
worthy jasper
Testing things on skelly is for people who make guides.
eager flint
based and clodsirepilled
untold iris
rush delivery is so good that people will pick stygian just for the like 2% higher chance of seeing it
idk what the actual odds increase is
its pretty small but every little bit counts
thats also why people say to not take a call before asphodel
opening up the hermes call boons is bad since you see rush delivery or extra dashes less often
worthy jasper
i think most people assume it will lodge
As for this... I don't understand why the default is to assume that the thing that doesn't exist will remain stuck in the enemy.
proper furnace
infernal + call hermes odds are so 
glacial sonnet
damn i didnt realize i need to have another dio in core besides his cast to unlock low tolerance
eager flint
opening up the hermes call boons is bad since you see rush delivery or extra das...
WHY DID I NEVER THINK ABOUT THIS IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE
I'm dummmb
glacial sonnet
no 60% more dmg for me this time
oh yeah i literally dont have a hangover giving tool
worthy jasper
Doesn't rush delivery only work if you have a significant speed increase?
eager flint
damn i didnt realize i need to have another dio in core besides his cast to unlo...
what would low tolerance even do with only tripping ? 
eager flint
Doesn't rush delivery only work if you have a significant speed increase?
hyper sprint gives 100%, and ichors are multiplicative
untold iris
Doesn't rush delivery only work if you have a significant speed increase?
yeah but one of the two prerequisites for rush delivery gives +100% move speed?
also move speed is multiplicative so stacking it is broken
if you have RD
eager flint
And the other gives +20% but multiplicative and ichors exist
worthy jasper
Like lets say you have a common rush delivery and like 20% bonus speed that's 10% bonus damage? Not much different from other damage increases.
eager flint
except ichors go baller
worthy jasper
I'm lucky to see one ichor on a run.
proper furnace
if you get greater haste'd you roll for ichors basically
also dad call gives speed too
vagrant crane
Like lets say you have a common rush delivery and like 20% bonus speed that's 10...
first hermes is 99% of the time hyper sprint
if u have rd
eager flint
they cost 10 gold and increase your damage by minimum 6%, and it gets exponential
eager flint
I'm lucky to see one ichor on a run.
you need to roll for them
untold iris
when im playing casually i'll roll at least once for hyper sprint as my first hermes
proper furnace
oh yeah I remember theory crafting this stupid thing
untold iris
or extra dashes
eager flint
you can roll wells, it not only changes the available items but also refreshes any you bought
proper furnace
what's the minimum mov speed that bouldy can give
worthy jasper
I could roll for them and still get flip all
eager flint
I could roll for them and still get flip all
it do be like that sometimes
vagrant crane
ok i fixed it
untold iris
the big thing is that rush delivery is a global damage boost, which is rare to come by
and also movement speed stacks multiplicatively, which is also very rare in this game
like say you have common hyper sprint, epic rush delivery
buying an ichor form the well is a 40% global damage boost
worthy jasper
By the way it's not like I don't believe you there's just a lot of things happening in this game. It's hard to keep track of it all. And not only are some of the things you suggest very big brain, but also like, make the game more difficult for me.
untold iris
which is ridiculous for an item that costs 10 gold
if you manage to stack two ichors, the second ichor is 48% damage
since movespeed is multiplicative
worthy jasper
Like bringing Meg instead of Bouldy.
untold iris
bouldy is good if you're farming
eager flint
By the way it's not like I don't believe you there's just a lot of things happen...
yeah it's normal
untold iris
meg is for serious runs
worthy jasper
I use bouldy for serious runs.
untold iris
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1207074144055726140/i...
what sheet is this?
vagrant crane
sub6 sheet
untold iris
also that one person with 700 runs
vagrant crane
untold iris
wtf
vagrant crane
ocke built different
untold iris
is that 700 attempts or 700 different sub-6 times?
vagrant crane
700 sub6 times
untold iris
wow
worthy jasper
And still 4th place
But yeah I use bouldy coz it makes the run easier. Meg only makes it faster.
untold iris
faster is easier
bouldy does 1k damage in a small area and heals
meg does 2.5k damage in a big aoe
worthy jasper
Yeah so if you're bad at avoiding damage you use the heals.
proper furnace
bouldy better cuz voice lines
untold iris
one thing to note is that the faster you kill enemies the less damage you take
also healing may be less impactful as you turn heat up
worthy jasper
You only get 5 summons per run, using meg doesn't make you avoid that much damage lol.
proper furnace
also can't you trap bosses with the things drops
untold iris
its useless if you're running LC4, for example
untold iris
You only get 5 summons per run, using meg doesn't make you avoid that much damag...
usually you summon to speed up miniboss rooms
vagrant crane
You only get 5 summons per run, using meg doesn't make you avoid that much damag...
live witch circle and bombers reaction
and bball
untold iris
also if you're running tight deadline faster is important
i still need to learn the witch setup
worthy jasper
Yeah notice how I don't do all of those things?
untold iris
i know it exists i just havent put it into practice yet
worthy jasper
Click?
vagrant crane
on controller u have to make the autoaim do it
worthy jasper
For some reason I only get barge or gorgon
vagrant crane
power couple is easier
waddle in a circle around the gorgon till the guy drops
when he drops meg
worthy jasper
Because hitstun is good?
vagrant crane
it just makes ur life way easier
untold iris
so if you use bouldy its still 2200 damage you need to deal
worthy jasper
Regardless, I'd have to learn all the awful timings and setups and I'd have to you know
untold iris
use meg and you have to deal 1200 damage
vagrant crane
u get much better at that over time
worthy jasper
No but you can bouldy whenever to heal
untold iris
thats where the high burst of damage helps the most often
worthy jasper
Most of my damage happens during regular encounters.
Usually at unpredictable times.
untold iris
you'll get better at that over time
glacial sonnet
@proper furnace is jolted like the core damage machine for zeus buil;ds
worthy jasper
There is no core damage for zeus build I don't think.
You just do all of the damage.
Anyway
Are opinions divided over whether to take infernal or stygian?
proper furnace
<@676221149134323721> is jolted like the core damage machine for zeus buil;ds
yeah
untold iris
its a very good status
worthy jasper
It is. But you basically take it because it is yet another way to deal damage.
Zeus builds benefit from having many ways to deal damage.
proper furnace
the difference of non jolted vs jolted is way too big tbh
untold iris
if you have zeus on one of your primary attacks you want to find jolted next
proper furnace
so I'd say is a core part of it
untold iris
then billowing strength
worthy jasper
Because jolted is a way to deal damage on top of dealing damage.
untold iris
as a consolation I will work my way towards the legendary
since zeus legendary is also pretty good
worthy jasper
It's like the yo dawg thing.
I heard u like damage
So I put some damage in your damage
glacial sonnet
ill try again to get jolted next time i do eris or fists
is GY spear the best for chucking specials or some other aspect
worthy jasper
So you can damage while you damage
worthy jasper
A bow that shoots using a different button
glacial sonnet
i mean theres achilles but i cant resist trying to get memebeams whenevr i use achilles spear
worthy jasper
And needs a hammer for a charge
untold iris
you can do a spin build for GY but its kind of hammer dependent and hard to use
glacial sonnet
artemis hades spear?
untold iris
playing it as a special build is usually more consistent
proper furnace
zag/hades spear can also do special throwing but you want 2 hammers instead
untold iris
hades spear likes artemis
glacial sonnet
whichever is more reliable for superdad
proper furnace
exploding launcher for the special to be good and charged skewer for actual dmg
glacial sonnet
maybe no spear chucking this run
untold iris
whichever is more reliable for superdad
special build is going to be easier for boss fights
glacial sonnet
oh
untold iris
assuming you're running GY
glacial sonnet
ive been hestiapilled
worthy jasper
Today's weapon is the rail. Think I'll just use zagreus
Hestia is more like a high skill thing.
glacial sonnet
ok time to try out aphro gy
i like hestia so far
stay back shoot reload shoot reload
forced into poseidon and zeus so early in tartarus with gy 
untold iris
did you take a god keepsake?
glacial sonnet
yeah aphro
is there anything demeter has thats good for GY
otherwise im just gonna pom aphro special some more ig
proper furnace
Dem barely has good things
untold iris
if you have natural zeus in tartarus i would have tried to build towards smouldering air
proper furnace
it does when you receive the hp iirc
glacial sonnet
is gilgamesh fist good with percent attack boons?
vagrant crane
not really
it's not actually good with anything
but u want flat damage on attack
untold iris
but u want flat damage on attack
wait actually?
vagrant crane
yeah
vagrant crane
on standing strike
untold iris
i guess dash strike is pitiful damage
vagrant crane
you usually are dash striking
proper furnace
something something dash strike can't kill a numbskull
plain river
dont the hits do like 60 base damage?
Standing is way too slow
and dash strike
Isn’t much better
Still slow
plain river
issue with gilga
Is despite having extra dashes
It’s dashes are shorter, take longer to recharge, and dash strikes are slower
plain river
splash dash damage w/ shorter dashes
with a longer cooldown
Kind of a not worth trade off
fringe summit
Does Exit Wounds not function properly with Hera Bow? Might be something else or just me, but it feels like the Casts don't really "dislodge" from the enemy
I do have Greater Recall as well
valid dagger
Does Exit Wounds not function properly with Hera Bow? Might be something else or...
It functions just like any other weapon
glacial sonnet
is gilgamesh fists just plain worse than dem fists or
eager flint
yes it is
glacial sonnet
how does deflect work on rail specials? does the explosion deflect things lol
mossy grail
guys, should i trade tempest flourish rare lvl 3 for thunder flourish epic lvl 3? using chiron bow
vagrant crane
no
mossy grail
ty
glacial sonnet
is poseidon still good for eris special
vital night
is poseidon still good for eris special
Eh, there’s better options
glacial sonnet
is rocket for eris bad without cluster
i have to rocket point blank to boost myself
analog mauve
its best
vital night
is rocket for eris bad without cluster
i have to rocket point blank to boost my...
I don’t like it either to be completely honest so on modded I start cluster and hope for rocket
But rocket is instant so it’s better ig
analog mauve
also higher damage than regular special
proper furnace
is rocket for eris bad without cluster
i have to rocket point blank to boost my...
Something something eris is a melee weapon
glacial sonnet
is hunters mark good if my only artemis core is call
also is the rocket splash for self boost smaller than grenade?
vital night
is hunters mark good if my only artemis core is call
also is the rocket splash f...
Pressure point makes it better
but if you only have call, not really
Base call is near useless for damage
And greater call you want to use for oneshotting a boss phase
vagrant crane
is hunters mark good if my only artemis core is call
also is the rocket splash f...
rocket splash for eris is free
glacial sonnet
ok so i need to gitgud at splashing myself with rockets without missing
also is patroclus jerky worth on eris or i should just refill health
vagrant crane
u just need to be vaguely near enemy when u hit them
analog mauve
it sucks with tdash
vital night
Athena
vital night
Rough
glacial sonnet
ill just take artemis dash while theres a purple one on sale
oh wow killed theseus and bull with 1 acorn charge remaining
oh sorry i mean asterius and king guy
analog mauve
same diff
glacial sonnet
ferocious guard hammer for shield good? or i can just take dashing flight
untold iris
dashing flight is completely useless
ferocious guard is meh but it does something sometimes
whats the third hammer?
eager flint
ferocious guard is meh but it does something sometimes
I'd call it mid. It's not so bad, you can be reasonably ok about finding it
analog mauve
it is the free 20% damage one right
untold iris
20% damage after blocking
analog mauve
20% free damage
untold iris
its not the best hammer but it does stuff
analog mauve
3rd best hammer
glacial sonnet
oops a bit late to read the hammer advice
killing freeze (decay) is basically guaranteed extra dmg on bosses right
glacial sonnet
hahah yoo artemis special crits work on hellfire pulses too
lucifer triple beam or targeting system?
i mean the targeting reticule is way smaller on lucifer bombs
also i guess flash fire just means the delay between clicking m1 and the beam coming is fster not the actual fire rate
glacial sonnet
do minibosses benefit from middle management when they show up in superdad fight
tight basin
no
glacial sonnet
epic
tight basin
i think they have like different gimmicks tho
like they disappear every now and then or something?
even the ones that dont normally do that
i dont play enough em4 to know any of that lmao
glacial sonnet
how much should i pom crystal beam for its per tick damage?
tight basin
idk but your pom priority is glacial glare
glacial sonnet
oh yeah i think the superdad adds sometimes disappear too when he goes D A R K N E S S
tight basin
prob just put like 3 or so poms into the beam idk
untold iris
i think i accidentally confused the disappearing minibosses with the ones that actually teleport on MM
glacial sonnet
bruh going for memebeams i got forced into dio and poseidon already in tartarus
tight basin
that's fine
as long as you dont get forced into a 4th it's fine
filling god pool is good
just get arty in aspho and you'll be fine
glacial sonnet
if you get 4 gods can you use keepsake to force a 5th
tight basin
i mean yeah but it still reduces the odds of seeing the god you want
you'd have 1/5 or 2/5 instead of 1/4 or 2/4
glacial sonnet
crysal beam lvl 2-3 only adds 1 damage per tick lol
no deal?
tight basin
and considering duos are offered at a base 10%-12%, a 5-10% increase is somewhat substantial
tight basin
crysal beam lvl 2-3 only adds 1 damage per tick lol
no deal?
idk does the description mention a tick rate
if it's like every 0.1 or something then it's not that horrible
untold iris
i think its 0.2 sec like most other DoT effects
actually hangover is 0.5 sec...
but stuff like crystal beam/blade rifts/rupture damage are all 0.2 sec
vital night
like they disappear every now and then or something?
That’s probably benefits package right
glacial sonnet
does god gauge fill up faster from frequent ticks?
tight basin
That’s probably benefits package right
shouldn't be
glacial sonnet
so demeter should be rather quick for filling god gauge right
tight basin
if it was bp they'd have icons next to their hp bars
glacial sonnet
i can get 40% greater haste or 1% per second quick favor
tight basin
so demeter should be rather quick for filling god gauge right
yeah
is that first hermes
glacial sonnet
ye
tight basin
what's your current call
glacial sonnet
artemis