Call is not considered core by the priority sysyem
#h1-builds-and-combat
untold iris
proper furnace
so it gets shamed into non core status 
worthy jasper
Well, ok it's not priority apparently
I just thought we'd call it a core boon anyway.
fervent root
I just thought we'd call it a core boon anyway.
Fair.
proper furnace
1/5 to get vorimed sounds fun
worthy jasper
A call focused build doesn't really work without certain exact auxiliary boons so yea
Vorimed?
I know Vorime but what does it mean?
proper furnace
not getting the core you want
fervent root
A call focused build doesn't really work without certain exact auxiliary boons s...
Agreed, totally agree with that statement.
proper furnace
it happened to him during a gdq run
plain river
auxilary boons = aphro core, zeus core, smouldering air
proper furnace
beo w/o cast start after all rolls
worthy jasper
Isn't that why speedrun mods give you all four on your first boon?
proper furnace
yup
plain river
You can roll and not get cores though
untold iris
The mod changes it to 4 core
fervent root
auxilary boons = aphro core, zeus core, smouldering air
What is an auxiliary boon exactly?
worthy jasper
Depends, I just use it to refer to anything that doesn't go in your 5 slots.
proper furnace
for any call build you really just go for smair
worthy jasper
But could also just mean boons you need to make a build work.
plain river
What is an auxiliary boon exactly?
Literally just any boon that isn’t a call in this scenario
fervent root
Oh wow… that’s a lot then, lol.
plain river
Typical term is Secondary boons iirc. = non cores (aside from calls)
worthy jasper
If you're going pure call build you want Smouldering Air and also the hermes equivalent.
untold iris
Ok random topic change
How good is ares dash?
I've been playing more nonforcing runs and it doesn't seem too terrible actually
plain river
No
proper furnace
quick favor is meh
plain river
Hermes equivalent doesn’t matter
proper furnace
just get rd
untold iris
I used to think ares dash was giga bad but it's not bad?
fervent root
Duo boons are great when you get them.
plain river
it’s too slow to matter in the face of rd or greatest reflex
worthy jasper
Ares dash is... Fine.
proper furnace
yeah blade dash isn't the worst
worthy jasper
But like, it is not complimentary to anything.
proper furnace
you just have the funny boons called divine and tidal dash at the top
untold iris
Obv splash and Athena are best
vagrant crane
blade dash can work
worthy jasper
Eh, Passion Dash has a place in a lot of builds.
fervent root
Obv splash and Athena are best
True.
untold iris
Why is passion dash so bad?
fervent root
Passion Dash is used for certain builds.
worthy jasper
It's not.
worthy jasper
You don't use passion dash for the damage you use it to inflict weak lol
untold iris
I've mostly been picking it for weak
untold iris
Like if I rnged into arty attack
worthy jasper
....To enable your build that relies on weak?
plain river
If you're going pure call build you want Smouldering Air and also the hermes equ...
Even with a purple quick favour, your call charges in 4.2 seconds instead of 5 (assuming you deal 0 damage and take 0 damage in between)
vagrant crane
why would your build rely on weak
worthy jasper
Crit builds
fervent root
Then I take passion dash to open heart rend
Yeah, that opens more possibilities…
worthy jasper
Dio builds.
vagrant crane
heart rend is the only situation where pash dash has half an application
and it’s still not that good
worthy jasper
Hard disagree.
plain river
Every crit build or dio build has a better way to apply weak
fervent root
I do like Poseidon’s call, tho.
vagrant crane
Hard disagree.
yeah sorry i actually dont know anything about the game
untold iris
Every crit build or dio build has a better way to apply weak
Spear?
worthy jasper
Not sure what you mean by that.
fervent root
Artemis works well with almost every god & goddess. ALMOST.
untold iris
I guess I can remember to press cast every 4 seconds and take crush shot
vagrant crane
you do not need that
plain river
why r u doing either of those on spear
The only crit build for spear is like hunting blades achilles
vagrant crane
you don’t need to apply weak
untold iris
why r u doing either of those on spear
I've mostly been playing fun runs where I don't force
worthy jasper
yeah sorry i actually dont know anything about the game
I do not understand this sarcasm. At least it looks like sarcasm.
untold iris
So I just pick what shows up
vagrant crane
weak is not that important of a debuff
untold iris
Just farming bounties on a new file so it's not serious yet
vagrant crane
it can be very useful if you’re at like high 50s in heat
untold iris
That's why I was wondering about blade dash
untold iris
The few times it has showed up it wasn't terrible
vagrant crane
and u have to remember to pre dash
untold iris
And I had previously assumed it was awful
fervent root
It’s not the best tho right?
plain river
Blade dash ain’t any pos dash or ddash
vagrant crane
but not horrific
untold iris
Wdym by pre dash?
fervent root
It’s decent.
vagrant crane
dashing on spawn circles or while a boss is bubbled
worthy jasper
Like, is there any other way to apply weak that doesn't involve adding an extra button to your rotation?
untold iris
Oh, yeah
vagrant crane
Like, is there any other way to apply weak that doesn't involve adding an extra ...
why do you need to apply weak
untold iris
So worst is uh... dio and demeter dash?
worthy jasper
Because I'm running a build that uses weak?
vagrant crane
why
plain river
Like, is there any other way to apply weak that doesn't involve adding an extra ...
Any crit or dio build has an attack or special that would rather take aphrodite
untold iris
I think I'm happy with any other dash besides dio and demeter
worthy jasper
Because that's what the build uses.
vagrant crane
sounds like a bad build idk
worthy jasper
Well ok let me just uninstall my game for you then.
untold iris
I'm not incorrect in my assumption right? Dio demeter suck?
vagrant crane
yes
untold iris
Zeus Artemis situational good?
fervent root
sounds like a bad build idk
Because the build utilizes the Weak status effect, and actually I second guess that, because Aphrodite on attack is actually not that bad tbh. I though she’s awful but not really.
vagrant crane
it’s better to have no dash than mistral or nasty
proper furnace
demeter has a dash? 
untold iris
Athena pos good
worthy jasper
Artemis adds damage to your attack.
vagrant crane
Zeus Artemis situational good?
zap dash also sucks
plain river
Artemis adds damage to your attack.
Pash dash has low use cases because aphrodite just works better on something else wherever she needs to
untold iris
Wait zap dash bad?
vagrant crane
yes
untold iris
Explain
fervent root
demeter has a dash? <:zaglol:725043931867512903>
Yeah, she does apparently.
vagrant crane
arty dash is very situational but can be good
plain river
Zap dash has a direct zeus equivalent non-core
plain river
Lightning reflex ≈ zap dash
plain river
You still get your jolted without needing a core
worthy jasper
Pash dash has low use cases because aphrodite just works better on something els...
That would add an extra button to the rotation tho.
vagrant crane
not really
plain river
That would add an extra button to the rotation tho.
Not really
untold iris
Ok maybe I should stop picking Zeus dash then
plain river
Unless it’s zag bow
worthy jasper
If you put it on special then you have to press special
vagrant crane
what situation do you have where both atk and spec are filled
plain river
But then you just run aphro strike
vagrant crane
and you need weak
worthy jasper
Wdym both are filled?
plain river
If you put it on special then you have to press special
And most weapons use both in their dps rotation
what weapon are you building crit or dio on that doesn’t have both in dps
worthy jasper
Idk build I use is just spam dashs trikes.
vagrant crane
that’s not a buuld
worthy jasper
Ok fine, must I commit seppuku?
vagrant crane
wat
fervent root
Ugh… my brain hurts, lol.
vagrant crane
???
untold iris
So dash tier list?
Pos, Athena
Artemis
Ares, aphro
Zeus
Demeter, dio
worthy jasper
What do I need to do to earn your forgiveness?
vagrant crane
artemis is more like most of the time bad but occasionally ok and on rama best in slot
untold iris
I thought it was good but apparently it does a lot less damage than I thought
(Zeus)
vagrant crane
and tier lists are kinda weird in this game anyways
worthy jasper
Ok, you're right, passion dash is bad, the devs should be fired for putting it in the game and I am ashamed that I ever thought it was good.
fervent root
demeter has a dash? <:zaglol:725043931867512903>
Yeah, Mistral Dash to be specific!
vagrant crane
because there are 2 very different arenas to play the game in
plain river
If you put it on special then you have to press special
sword (crit or hangover) -> special is in the dps rotation
Hades (crit)-> strike is in the dps rotation (assuming special crit build)
Achilles (crit) (hangover works too but why)-> special is in the dps rotation
Zag bow (crit) -> this is your case for pash dash if you have triple shot, IF you aren’t already running aphrodite strike instead
Chiron (crit or strike)-> aphrodite on strike, part of dps rotation
Demeter (hangover) -> special
Eris (hangover) -> special part of dps rotation
Hestia (crit) -> special part of dps rotation
vagrant crane
and things good in one are not necessarily good in the other
fervent root
Ok, you're right, passion dash is bad, the devs should be fired for putting it i...
They could’ve done something different with Aphrodite tbh.
worthy jasper
sword (crit or hangover) -> special is in the dps rotation
Hades (crit)-> strike...
I am sorry for being such a moronic idiot then.
vagrant crane
dude
untold iris
I don't mind passion dash
vagrant crane
why are you like this
plain river
I am sorry for being such a moronic idiot then.
worthy jasper
Wdym? I'm just apologizing.
untold iris
I understand it's not good dps though
plain river
I want to be helpful, sorry if I came off rude
untold iris
But it doesn't seem unpickable like dio dash
plain river
I think I’ve been careful enough with my messages
worthy jasper
It's not that you're rude. It's clear that I'm just not smart enough for this game.
vagrant crane
dude
untold iris
If I'm not forcing and aphro dash shows up I'll click it
worthy jasper
No legit I don't think you're rude.
untold iris
Just to fill a core
plain river
It's not that you're rude. It's clear that I'm just not smart enough for this ga...
❌ you can’t not be smart enough for Hades. Game knowledge and understanding comes with time
fervent root
It's not that you're rude. It's clear that I'm just not smart enough for this ga...
Don’t say that, you’ll get better over time logistically thinking. It is a complex system to figure out, like I didn’t know that the Pool of Purging was useful.
worthy jasper
Well, you all seem to know this stuff. So I should too.
plain river
I don’t expect you to have all the knowledge but I do want to correct errors in judgement
plain river
Well, you all seem to know this stuff. So I should too.
I have like 400 hours in game and have been extremely focused on understanding what’s good in Hades
worthy jasper
Well it's just that I don't get it even after you explain it so...
Like if I'm doing zag drunken fists why am I wanting to hit special?
untold iris
I'm getting back into the game recently
I played like maybe 100+ hours when 1.0 came out then quit
plain river
Like if I'm doing zag drunken fists why am I wanting to hit special?
Assuming it’s demeter, you want your big chunky special and for normal enemies you just dash special
fervent root
I’m still learning as well: especially with the Mirror Of Night, and the Pact Of Punishment.
vagrant crane
Like if I'm doing zag drunken fists why am I wanting to hit special?
damage rotation is dash strike x2 into dupper
untold iris
But my friend started playing this game for the first time so I started a new file
plain river
Also you can take a better dash then passion dash
worthy jasper
Wait why do I need demeter in drunken fists?
worthy jasper
No, it's Zag drunken fists.
untold iris
I'm bad at doing dash strike upper
plain river
Zag drunken fists you do it because it’s part of the dps rotation anywyas
worthy jasper
Wdym it's just part of the rotation?
untold iris
Iirc if you press everything fast enough you get both hits in a single dash
untold iris
But it only works like half the time for me because I'm not used to it
plain river
Wdym it's just part of the rotation?
Weapons have a way of using them for max dps output (which isn’t always obvious)
worthy jasper
Well, for starters because I don't have all the aspects fully unlocked, and also because I like Zagfists?
fervent root
also why would u use zagfist
People learn over time, no need to be rude.
plain river
vagrant crane
i’m asking what use case there is for zagfists
vital night
Not having the other aspects
vagrant crane
i guess
worthy jasper
Like I'm sorry I don't know what I'm doing that makes you so angry all the time.
untold iris
Tbh all three base fists are very similar
plain river
i’m asking what use case there is for zagfists
Not everybody has good Hades knowledge 
Or plays optimally
untold iris
Like maybe demeter is better than zag but it's not a super big difference
And 15 vs 5 blood
fervent root
I’m still figuring out the Guan Yu aspect strategies for clearing myself.
worthy jasper
I fully unlocked all zag weapons first because you know, low blood costs?
untold iris
Just spam special button
vagrant crane
if someone isn’t trying to play optimally why do decisions matter tho
just have fun in that case
fervent root
I fully unlocked all zag weapons first because you know, low blood costs?
How new are you to the game?
worthy jasper
....Why would my decisions not matter?
Uh, I got the game like around the time it came out on Switch?
plain river
....Why would my decisions not matter?
They were talking to meeee not you, please don’t get offended
untold iris
The other three zag aspects are sad though
vital night
Like I'm sorry I don't know what I'm doing that makes you so angry all the time.
You’re fine. The conflict is that a lot of people here have hundreds of hours in the game and along with the greater speedrunning/heat community, have figured out what’s optimal for a certain weapon. So it seems silly to take passion dash in 90% of cases
worthy jasper
And that makes some people angry?
vagrant crane
nobody is angry
vital night
Idk about angry
fervent root
Trust me, same here, I still have around 94+ hrs in the game, not that much.
worthy jasper
nobody is angry
Then what are you? Annoyed? Frustrated?
vital night
It’s just hard to take seriously someone arguing for passion dash when t dash exists
plain river
Then what are you? Annoyed? Frustrated?
As someone who does teaching
Annoyed/frustrated is an easy place to end up
fervent root
Easily.
vagrant crane
Then what are you? Annoyed? Frustrated?
idk man
worthy jasper
Like idk maybe my reading of the room was wrong but I've been reading some sarcasm and other passive aggressive things.
Like when you said you didn't know anything about the game.
fervent root
Like idk maybe my reading of the room was wrong but I've been reading some sarca...
We all get mixed up in emotions that makes it hard sometimes to understand certain phrases and words.
vital night
No there was definitely sarcasm
fervent root
I don’t always read the room either.
plain river
Honestly though
untold iris
I'm mostly just interested in learning about less commonly picked boons
I know the meta stuff from before I quit
fervent root
I’m invested more in the story than anything tbh, the gameplay is fun tho.
plain river
I feel like the attitude has been… a bit much recently 
worthy jasper
Ok so let me just uhh, suppose two things. Suppose a player 1) doesn't know optimal rotations, and 2) doesn't gel well with complicated rotations.
vagrant crane
the only mega complicated rotation to get down is hestia rlly
plain river
Yeah I never got around to explaining those I was going to and the convo drifted
vagrant crane
fists is a little tight for inputs but not complicated
vital night
(The damage boost from tdash might outweigh pstatus tbh)
worthy jasper
Well, I tried hestia just now and I just didn't get the boons to make it works so it became a dash-call build instead.
untold iris
But I'm realizing that when I'm just doing runs where I start coinpurse or whatever and just try to win with whatever shows up, idk whether certain boons are okay or actually garbage
vital night
Just start shackle
vagrant crane
the damage from fam favs outweighs pstatus
fervent root
What the hell is a rotation?
(trust me I wouldn’t know cuz idk what most the META is)
vagrant crane
i should make that rotation video
worthy jasper
A rotation is just an order of inputs.
tight basin
damn we still on the pstatus convo?
untold iris
Like I just learn today that Zeus dash bad?
worthy jasper
Not really
fervent root
Oh.
worthy jasper
To Bananas I mean
vagrant crane
yeah i’ll go do that
tight basin
oh lmao
vagrant crane
give me 10 minutes
tight basin
Like I just learn today that Zeus dash bad?
makes non-arthur dash strikes on sword wonky
worthy jasper
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.
untold iris
Ok the fist combo is weird and you will never learn it naturally without a ton of experimentation
vital night
Yeah ik, I’m just saying even if you don’t have pstatus, tdash and rupture probably still does better than pdash
untold iris
IIRC it involves using an upper at the end of your dash attack
So you hit twice in one dash
worthy jasper
Like we did end up here starting from priv status but I don't think the subject is priv status anymore.
tight basin
So you hit twice in one dash
that's mainly for procing ME without the dash
untold iris
It's a lot of button presses and I'm bad at it still
tight basin
and maybe for like breakpoint stuff but that's kinda run specific
fervent root
I just mash the shoulder buttons ngl, lol.
tight basin
It's a lot of button presses and I'm bad at it still
the dstrike->dupper isn't exactly a mash, you gotta wait a bit
untold iris
@vagrant crane if you do make a video on dps rotations ping me? I'd be interested in seeing it
tight basin
you can easily practice it on skelly
plain river
Ok so let me just uhh, suppose two things. Suppose a player 1) doesn't know opti...
Sword: dash strike two times, then special, repeat
Spear: I genuinely don’t know it for regular spear, but for achilles it’s dstrike dstrike special iirc
Shield: I just wing it since I play zeus
Bows are all different: zag bow just dash strikes, chiron dstrike special special or smthing, hera is dashstriking+ casts, rama is some mix of specialing whenever the debuff is down and dash striking.
Fists: dashstrike dashstrike dashspecial.
Rail: special and shoot/dash strike whenever you aren’t
vagrant crane
how would i make a rotation for spear without hammer
plain river
or something like that
worthy jasper
I just pick priv status for the extra damage if I know in advance that I will be getting two status curses relatively early. I don't think that's unreasonable?
vagrant crane
do i just not
plain river
Sword: dash strike two times, then special, repeat
Spear: I genuinely don’t know...
Coreect me if I’m wrong
vagrant crane
nah pstatus is bad
doesn’t apply on first 2 hits
or for like half the game
for this video should i do like 12 different short videos or 1 big video
plain river
pstatus’s main value is if you a) plan on not killing most enemies in 1-2 hits, and b) if you know you’re guaranteed takkng 2 curses in your dps rotation
plain river
so dio builds and that’s pretty much it
fervent root
That’s my mapped controls.
tight basin
how would i make a rotation for spear without hammer
can't you just download codex mod
untold iris
For the fist rotation the special comes out in the same dash as the strike right?
vagrant crane
yeah but how do i make a no hammer rotaiton
tight basin
oh
vagrant crane
like wtf do u do pre hammer on zagspear
worthy jasper
pstatus’s main value is if you a) plan on not killing most enemies in 1-2 hits, ...
Isn't that what I suggested?
tight basin
i mean achilles is easy
vagrant crane
just cope?
tight basin
but uh
plain river
yeah but how do i make a no hammer rotaiton
Serrated point 
tight basin
idk lmao
vital night
Ignore the special
tight basin
just dash strikes and standing strikes?
plain river
Unless it’s special focused
tight basin
you're gonna have to ask speedcord for that one lmao
vagrant crane
and should it be separate videos for each rotation
worthy jasper
I mean when I play spear and I don't have explosive thingy ma bob, I just dash strike?
untold iris
Rotations for hammers might be helpful too
worthy jasper
Idk about rotation.
vagrant crane
or one big video
tight basin
i'd say a video per weapon
plain river
Honestly if it’s a special focused spear it’s probably just guan-yu’s rotation
untold iris
Like charged shot vs non charged shot is a big difference
vagrant crane
zagspear prob just dash strikes and cast in between
vital night
One big video
worthy jasper
Does guan yu even have a rotation?
vagrant crane
yes
tight basin
actuallyl 1 big video makes more sense
vagrant crane
lol
tight basin
because some weapons are easy
worthy jasper
I thought it was just hit X.
vagrant crane
now i have to go download codex mod
vital night
Special dstrike
tight basin
have fun
plain river
Every weapon has a rotation
vagrant crane
is x attack
worthy jasper
It's special
plain river
is x attack
No
vagrant crane
u should dash strike between the specials
untold iris
Actually I tried taking charged shot on Zeus and it was tragic. My fingers aren't good enough to do everything I want...
plain river
I had to think way too hard about that
vital night
You can cancel the special early by dstrike
worthy jasper
That sounds... complicated.
vital night
It’s really not
vagrant crane
i hate nexus mods
vital night
Just give it a shot on skelly
worthy jasper
Well I can only speak for myself. And to me it's hard to wrap my head around.
vital night
Nah dw about it. The muscle memory will come with time
worthy jasper
That's like people telling me to just hit the lab in a fighting game lol.
tight basin
tbf skelly helps with learning basic combos lol
worthy jasper
Tbf they say that about the lab in fighting games too.
plain river
Dash strike, unless it’s special focused: then you special and dashstrike inbetween, unless it’s Hades; then you just include spin whenever your special needs the boost
vital night
What’s the lab lol
tight basin
Tbf they say that about the lab in fighting games too.
then it's probably helpful there too lol
worthy jasper
Eh, "training mode" I suppose?
People call that the lab.
You know your opponent just stands there doing nothing so you can just pummel them in complete safety?
plain river
So Skelly
vital night
Just special and then dstrike. Try it out until you figure out the smallest amount of time you can have between the special and dstrike that doesn’t cancel the special itself
plain river
i spent like 4 hours on that
tight basin
You know your opponent just stands there doing nothing so you can just pummel th...
yeah but if youre having trouble hitting the buttons at the right times with the right spacings help a lot
plain river
Time to spend 4 more hours
vagrant crane
nah screw this im using a preset
plain river
Bye bye Jaz-
tight basin
like say that i can't dash strike on sword accurately from the top down direction, skelly helps with that
or i can't do the dash strike -> dupper in the same dash on fists
worthy jasper
The only thing I learned about this game is that the way certain things chain into certain things makes no sense. I especially noticed this when experimenting with arthur sword.
tight basin
practicing dash strikes on bow on skelly is great too
worthy jasper
Like I just noticed that different things would happen every time I tried to dash strike.
plain river
like say that i can't dash strike on sword accurately from the top down directio...
Like say I can’t dash strike properly with sword; I just walk over to bow and hit select and boom problem solved
tight basin
true
worthy jasper
Like sometimes I think it does the proper dash strike but sometimes it just dashes and then does some part of the standing combo.
vital night
Like I just noticed that different things would happen every time I tried to das...
It matters whether you press the buttons at the same time or do them one after the other
worthy jasper
And it's not always the first part either.
Almost like it saves where you are in the combo or something.
vital night
Yeah because you retain the standing combo
plain river
Almost like it saves where you are in the combo or something.
It does
you almost have to stagger your attack to properly dash strike
worthy jasper
So like, I think normally a dash strike should be a thrust
So when I see a slash, I get confused.
proper furnace
with arthur you can hold attack and press dash to get dash strikes iirc
vital night
Idk, I've done like 2 runs on arthur ever but you kinda just figure out what the input windows are
plain river
with arthur you can hold attack and press dash to get dash strikes iirc
Oh rlly? I’ve just been purposefully delaying my strikes
plain river
W Jazz
vagrant crane
it doesnt have everything
worthy jasper
You made a video just like that?
plain river
Oh that’s why your profile picture looks familiar
vagrant crane
because i cu9ldnt be bothered to actually use codex mod
plain river
I finally took a closer look at it
vagrant crane
you like firing in
worthy jasper
But okay, lets assume someone doesn't know optimal rotations and doesn't gel with complicated rotations.
Would it not make sense for someone to look at ways to reduce the amount of different inputs?
vital night
Would it not make sense for someone to look at ways to reduce the amount of diff...
you can reduce the number of inputs you need by taking tdash instead tbf
things die faster
worthy jasper
And in the end if Hades dies that's good right?
vagrant crane
if u dont care about improvement then the advice of how to do the best doesnt really matter
worthy jasper
I don't really like that mindset.
vagrant crane
like how at low heat every aspect is good
vital night
push the pact as far as you can go then
worthy jasper
Well it's kind of disparate. For some weapons it's at like 5 and for two of them it's pushing 10.
plain river
Would it not make sense for someone to look at ways to reduce the amount of diff...
Hypothetically yes, if you didn’t have other options for your dash that could (and are) seen as a significantly higher boost
vagrant crane
so then do whatever u want
the build choices u make dont really start making life hard till like 32 and only after like 45 are certain builds gated from completion
plain river
At some point you will run into an issue of straight up just getting enough dps out to beat td
fervent root
If anyone wants to look at my control map, here….
worthy jasper
td?
plain river
but that’s like if you take all the worst options for the rest of your pact
Tight deadline
9/7/5 minutes per biome
Then you start taking 5 damage a second after that
untold iris
To be fair every aspect has over 50 heat unmodded so you can honestly just call it skill diff if you're dying at low heat
worthy jasper
Idk what would slow that down.
plain river
But yeah at higher heats with like+60% enemies, +30% enemy hp and every enemy lives 2 extra hits, you start actually having a limiter on builds since some can’t put out enough damage to deal with that
worthy jasper
Other than more hp
untold iris
I'm not that good but I was able to do 32 all aspects during 1.0
worthy jasper
I don't know all the abbreviations.
vital night
basically more enemies with more health
vagrant crane
extreme measures 3 and 4
approval process
routine inspection
convenience fee
all huge hits to speed
fervent root
Here, I’ll give you all the abbreviations.
untold iris
CP is actually really bad too
tight basin
it's pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies
plain river
We don’t need all of them
vagrant crane
already mentioned
plain river
We just need the ones that slow you down
vagrant crane
that is most of them
plain river
You missed the like most obvious one Jazz
untold iris
CP2 EM4 hades has like twice the hp pool as regular hades
vagrant crane
You missed the like most obvious one Jazz <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
it was alreayd mentioned
untold iris
That fight is so long
worthy jasper
I did EM4 for the first time earlier. Third phase kind of threw me for a loop. I knew there was one but I wasn't aware of all the new stuff.
vagrant crane
Other than more hp
here
plain river
CP2 EM4 hades has like twice the hp pool as regular hades
A bit lower but yeah
just a tinsy bit lower
vagrant crane
high heat em4 cp2 takes like over 6x as long as normal dads
worthy jasper
Wait so uh
Do people who do things at high heat actually have it really tight or something?
vagrant crane
since they're over 3 minutes
plain river
Yeah
vagrant crane
and a normal dad is like 30 sec
worthy jasper
Like barely make the deadline?
plain river
Not always
vagrant crane
yes
plain river
The especially high heats yeah
vagrant crane
most high heat runs will be 19 min
worthy jasper
And the max is 20 in styx?
vagrant crane
if you went overtime in earlier biomes u still get 5 min
worthy jasper
Assuming no overtime tho. Since I hear that's nasty
vagrant crane
and u dont die instantly
untold iris
You just lose hp rapidly
plain river
5 damage a second and it’s dash iframable
vagrant crane
the arthur heat wr goes overtime by like loads
plain river
or dash iframe I mean
vagrant crane
because arthur sucks
worthy jasper
I also hear people turn off all healing and switch to stubborn defiance?
untold iris
It's 4 heat and doesn't make fights slower
fervent root
Why?
untold iris
So you have to
plain river
Genuinely a better pick then whatever else you can take at that point
vital night
free heat
untold iris
TD is a huge issue at high heat
worthy jasper
Idk, if Arthur can actually stand going into overtime it's not that bad is it?
untold iris
Any heat that doesn't make fights longer needs to be considered
plain river
…it can’t at higher heat
vagrant crane
Idk, if Arthur can actually stand going into overtime it's not that bad is it?
he had 2 extra dds
fervent root
If you’re taking your sweet time on Tight Deadline, then yeah, it’s P A I N
worthy jasper
That said I assume the damage from overtime is static? So the only thing that helps is high HP?
...Which is also a thing Arthur has.
vagrant crane
the thing that helps is good dps
fervent root
TD is bad enough as is, but HIGH HEAT is where things get nasty…
vagrant crane
so you dont go overtime
plain river
The only thing that helps is good dps
worthy jasper
I feel a bit misunderstood.
untold iris
No healing is scary at first but it doesn't interfere with TD so it's better than the other crap
vagrant crane
...Which is also a thing Arthur has.
yeah it gives you like 13 extra seconds :widecharon3:
worthy jasper
Maybe that's all the difference? Idk. I'm just going off what I'm being told here.
plain river
Arthur’s extra hp doesn’t help because you’re using arthur
vagrant crane
the reaosn it was slow in the first place wa sbecause it was on arthur
fervent root
Rather take BP over CP, being honest.
vagrant crane
which sucks
plain river
lets just say more damage faster will keep you away from overtime
untold iris
TD2 is very free imo and TD3 is also fine if you learn some speedrun stuff and aren't on high heat
plain river
lets just say more damage faster will keep you away from overtime
Rather then preparing for inevitably going into overtime
vital night
td3 is usually free if you just try to play fast a little
untold iris
But TD sucks horribly once it's combined with other pacts
vagrant crane
even at 40 heat its very hard to get a decent time
fervent root
But TD sucks horribly once it's combined with other pacts
Yeah, agreed.
plain river
td3 is usually free if you just try to play fast a little
At like 50+ heat… “just play faster”
worthy jasper
Yet I've just been told that people did Arthur high heat?
plain river
Yet I've just been told that people did Arthur high heat?
Yeah it’s not impossible
vital night
At like 50+ heat… “just play faster” <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
that is my goal
vagrant crane
people have done literally every aspect at high heat
plain river
It’s just not the best at doing it
fervent root
but arthur sucks
What, and Guan Yu is better?
worthy jasper
It sucks? But people can do it?
plain river
What, and Guan Yu is better?
Yeah
vital night
gy is much better
vagrant crane
It sucks? But people can do it?
yeah? these 2 things arent mutually exclusive
plain river
It sucks? But people can do it?
Yes, but it’s just harder then other aspects
worthy jasper
I thought damage output wasn't Guan Yu's problem? At least not as much as some other aspects?
vagrant crane
guan yu's problem is pretyt much dps
vital night
the issue with gy is that everything kills you
plain river
Jazz is not being sarcasting btw
fervent root
I thought damage output wasn't Guan Yu's problem? At least not as much as some o...
It’s the health cut that makes it so much deadlier.
vagrant crane
not rlly
worthy jasper
From what I understand it changes how you play, you don't melee with GY.
untold iris
If you just spam special you can stand super far away
plain river
From what I understand it changes how you play, you don't melee with GY.
That’s normal gy
fervent root
The dps is the issue
Got it.
worthy jasper
So for reference Jazz is vetbaitednv?
untold iris
And GY special is actually good
vital night
with HL and HS surely the health is an issue
plain river
Gy is safe but lacks dps
vagrant crane
https://youtu.be/wqq5o2bMDGI?t=975 heres how a gy high heat room works
fervent root
What’s the best combo with GY tho?
untold iris
Low hp with GY is arguably safer than high hp with sword
worthy jasper
That’s normal gy
What is not normal GY?
fervent root
Low hp with GY is arguably safer than high hp with sword
How exactly?
worthy jasper
Yeah but you don't do that because low hp right?
vagrant crane
ranged also has more dps
worthy jasper
Also Guan Yu melee combo is slow and clunky
plain river
ranged also has more dps
The 62 heat gy clear in question
fervent root
I haven’t done GY yet, any tips for Hammers?
plain river
Charged skewer unless you’re a mad lad
then you go spin to win and clear 62 heat somehow
untold iris
How exactly?
You don't have to be melee range of enemies at all times
Your dps is not dependent on dash strikes so you have dashes available to bail you out if you make a mistake
Being ranged is just strong
fervent root
You don't have to be melee range of enemies at all times
Your dps is not depende...
Yeah, that is a slight disadvantage.
plain river
Some ttrpg gamers need to hear this
vagrant crane
fervent root
Being ranged is just strong
Fair, that’s how I got my first clear with the Eternal Spear.
plain river
Yeah, that is a slight disadvantage.
You get better dps from a chunky charged skewer special then most other ways you can build guan-yu
vagrant crane
The 62 heat gy clear in question
i choose to not believe
plain river
If not all other ways
just ignore the 62 heat clear where they took massive and quick spin
regular gy does not do that
Although a spin build at 62 heat does make sense to me tbh since then you can deal with dc
fervent root
You do know that in hells way I’m not doing over and above 32 heat yet, right. At least not right now…
I’m just getting my first clears with every aspect.
plain river
Then play it safe and hope for charged skewer
Another way you can play gy is taking serrated point
fervent root
Yeah I heard serrated point is good but yeah, charged skewer I can DEFINITELY work with!
plain river
A 90 base damage dash strike isn’t bad aside from crapping on your dash range
plain river
Yeah I heard serrated point is good but yeah, charged skewer I can DEFINITELY wo...
135 damage spear special with great aoe
fervent root
135 damage spear special with great aoe
Wow…
untold iris
Serrated is kind of scary but the dps is good
vagrant crane
it still feels like a wet noodle
although flurry does that over time too
spear bad
fervent root
serrated is discount flurry
Yeah, fair. Whenever I get flurry I jump for joy.
fervent root
That being Achilles right?
plain river
its a shame they only made 1 good aspect
Real, zag bow being the only aspect in the game is pretty sad
Imagine what they could do if every weapon had aspects
fervent root
Real, zag bow being the only aspect in the game is pretty sad
Oh… yea…
plain river
That being Achilles right?
I like all the spears but I also suck with the spear more than every other weapkn
idk why though because I feel like my sword gameplay should be worse then my spear gameplay
fervent root
I suck at the Adamant Rail more, so I understand!
plain river
Everytime I pick up sword I feel like I should have 0 success but then I do have like
fervent root
I do pretty well with both Spear and Bow.
Twin Fists I can work with.
Decent on sword and shield.
Mediocre/worst on rail.
vagrant crane
i do not have any success on anything other than bay the wofl
because the other ones sux
fervent root
Hence why, I change my controls to whatever this IS…
fervent root
Hence why, I change my controls to whatever this IS…
SK - Control Map
———————|-•-|
||Attack > LB
Dash > RB
Special > RT
Cast > B
—————-
Reload > LT
Interact > A
Gift & Misc. > B
Summon > X
Call > Y
——————
Codex > RS
Alt Dash> LS||
———————-|
Feel free to critique all you like, lmao…
plain river
Everytime I pick up sword I feel like I should have 0 success but then I do have...
My 32 heat clear with zag sword of all sword aspects
worthy jasper
I cannot say I understood anything happening in that video?
plain river
compared to 0 32 heat clears with spear even when I’ve been trying for a while
vital night
I cannot say I understood anything happening in that video?
which weapon
worthy jasper
**SK - Control Map**
———————|-•-|
||*Attack > LB
Dash > RB
Special > RT
Cast > B...
Is that Xbox xaby or correct xaby?
vital night
fervent root
Is that Xbox xaby or correct xaby?
Exactly…
worthy jasper
which weapon
All of them?
vital night
Also this has a section on combos for each aspect, could be good to look it over
plain river
Regular rail rotation, then they switch to hestia and show the hestia reload rotation
where they animation cancel teh reload
fervent root
https://www.leereamsnyder.com/hades-build-guide
Yeah this thing is awesome.
plain river
then the show your fists rotation
where you dash strike twice then dash special with the same dash
worthy jasper
Like there were several things I didn't get that I was gonna ask about, then I watched the video and I understand even less and don't even know where to begin asking.
vital night
Pick a weapon
plain river
Like there were several things I didn't get that I was gonna ask about, then I w...
The idea is to just show you the optimal dps rotation for each weapon / unique aspect
And then they do that going from rail to sword
worthy jasper
It's kinda like that scene in DBZ. I feel like I'm Mr Satan who thinks the fighters are hiding under a tile when Zagreus is just moving faster than my eyes can see.
plain river
so you should ideally just move to the point in the video for the weapon you want to use
And just watch that part
worthy jasper
I mean even just for one aspect I'm bombarded with so much information I don't know what to make of it.
plain river
I mean even just for one aspect I'm bombarded with so much information I don't k...
which one
worthy jasper
Any one.
plain river
i do not have any success on anything other than bay the wofl
That video is actually wtf
vital night
brother just pick one
worthy jasper
Which one should I pick?
vital night
and then you can be helped
vital night
sword is probably the most straightforward
plain river
or want the most help with
worthy jasper
I just use whichever has the hunger buff.
vital night
that's gonna be rough tbh
worthy jasper
How so?
vital night
i tried to focus on doing a single weapon/aspect at a time so you can build the muscle memory
worthy jasper
How would I even decide on a personal preference?
vital night
whatever you find fun
plain river
you choose which one you like and we focus on it
worthy jasper
How do I determine that?
plain river
How do you determine which aspect/weapon you like to play with?
worthy jasper
I know that sounds silly but like I have this thing where choosing in general is just hard.
plain river
I know that sounds silly but like I have this thing where choosing in general is...
I have it too, but most people don’t so I assumed you wouldn’t
Lets pivot then
What’s your best weapon for heat?
worthy jasper
Like I don't have a favourite food either or a favourite game.
plain river
What’s your best weapon for heat?
If multiple are tied, choose your fastest of those
worthy jasper
It's hard to say. Like I said I just pick whatever one has the hunger buff, so they aren't at even heat levels. But not because of some skill or lack thereof.
plain river
It's hard to say. Like I said I just pick whatever one has the hunger buff, so t...
I’m trying to tie this to anything other than personal preference
whether it’s truly your best weapon or not isn’t a big deal
worthy jasper
Like I have things I like and dislike about everything.
plain river
It just gets us to one specific weapon
worthy jasper
Like I like zag fists because they just have the least amount of thinking but since I've been told I've been using them wrong I'm probably wrong about that too.
rocky arrow
Rama build help? Tried many but none really felt good
plain river
Like I like zag fists because they just have the least amount of thinking but si...
Well lets take a gander at fists. It’s just dash strike dash strike, then you special as a part of the same dash
worthy jasper
Which one is Rama again?
vagrant crane
Rama build help? Tried many but none really felt good
A beefy % attack, Aphro is very good (ideally not common), or you can go for Artemis because crits, any high rarity % attack can do except Poseidon (avoid that one), for the Special you want flat damage, it's not hard to come by, usually not worth forcing tho, Ares Dio Zeus are the main ones, you can go for Demeter and try to get Killing freeze, it can work pretty well, for the Dash there arent many options because most of them are either anti-synergy or just dont do anything, Artemis however is probably the best in slot dash, because Rama relies on dash strikes and getting dash strike damage is just good, Athena is a good one too because deflecting is nice, another important thing for Rama is hammers, ideally you want Triple Shot or Twin Shot for your first hammer, if not offered you can go for Perfect or Point Blank, and for the second hammer you usually want Perfect or Point Blank (assuming Triple or Twin first) but the order can be the other way here, if you get Perfect Shot as first hammer then it's fine too, hammers to avoid are Sniper shot (blocks Twins shot) and also doesnt do anything, and Repulse shot, Explosive is a bit of an odd one, it's nice in some scenarios but hard to play, Chain shot is okay, wont do much in bosses. Rama is difficult and needs practice but it's really good when it comes to heat especially, it's a good idea to watch vods of people who are good at it and try to implement their movement and decision making in your runs
By Mike.
thanks mike
worthy jasper
The bow?
plain river
Which one is Rama again?
Heavy slow bow
vagrant crane
rama is very hard to do well
plain river
It’s the hidden bow aspect, heavier then normal
vagrant crane
make sure to practice dash strike power shot timing
worthy jasper
I do not quite understand why there needs to be a special in the rotation.
plain river
I do not quite understand why there needs to be a special in the rotation.
It’s free damage
proper furnace
special inflicts shared suffering
rocky arrow
A beefy % attack, Aphro is very good (ideally not common), or you can go for Art...
thanks mike
plain river
special inflicts shared suffering
They were talking about fists rotation
worthy jasper
special inflicts shared suffering
Two different conversations.
vagrant crane
to fill the space between dash strikes
proper furnace
oops
worthy jasper
What space between dash strikes?
plain river
What space between dash strikes?
Dash cooldown
vagrant crane
there is a delay after u do 2 dashes before u can dash again
worthy jasper
Oh, that.
plain river
Otherwise greater reflex and greatest reflex wouldn’t matter
And gilga wouldn’t be anything special
worthy jasper
Idk the delay between dashes only seems like uh
vagrant crane
instead we have gilga as the greatest aspect of all time ever 👍
worthy jasper
.5 seconds or so?
vagrant crane
thats a very long time
plain river
As someone with 400 hours in Hades, the dash cooldown is a very long time
plain river
For me a very long time is like
It’s a very long time relative to the game
vagrant crane
as someone wiht like 1300 the dash cooldown is a long time
plain river
A good chunk of my Hades experience has been the dash cooldown
worthy jasper
Is there a way to measure or quantify subjective time? Lol
vagrant crane
probably some logarithmic function
plain river
0.2 seconds or smthing
I have no clue how long a rotation is btw I’m bad with time
vital night
Is there a way to measure or quantify subjective time? Lol
it's not subjective. just relative
plain river
Either way on weapons other than bow the dash cooldown is super noticable
worthy jasper
I mean since I'm also hitting Y a bunch of times that time just gets filled up by punches?
plain river
I mean since I'm also hitting Y a bunch of times that time just gets filled up b...
Or you could dash special
for more damage
Like yeah you could start your fists standing strikes
you could also dash special
proper furnace
if it's hangover you would already be at max stacks anyways no
worthy jasper
I don't think I can pull off such an advanced maneuver like doing dash upper after dash strike.
plain river
and if it’s doom… it’s just going to get overwritten
proper furnace
practice it a few times in skelly
vagrant crane
its just pressing q after the attack
proper furnace
is surprisingly clean to do dash strike into upper
vagrant crane
or whatever special is
worthy jasper
You have to understand I'm not some kind of super gamer. I'm just a mere mortal.
plain river
also you don’t need to do it to be successful with fists
I have a 32 heat clear without having ever used the optimal dps rotation in my life
proper furnace
you don't need to be goated at fists to do this
worthy jasper
But like okay the special fills up the space. But then I'd need a whole extra boon right?
plain river
If you aren’t doing the optimal dps rotation you just slot a special in at somepoint to inflict weak for hangover
You need a special core anyways if you don’t want mess up your boons dods
since an open core is potential duo/legendary boons you aren’t seeing
worthy jasper
Boons dods?
plain river
boon odds
I’m not great at typing on mobile
turned off autocorrect because it kept being wrong
worthy jasper
Happens.
worthy jasper
It's just that it kind of breaks my head. I usually just leave the slot of things I don't use empty.
plain river
It's just that it kind of breaks my head. I usually just leave the slot of thing...
Yeah but the thing is, since the game tried to give you attack/cast/dash/specials
worthy jasper
So logistically that'd change things l.
plain river
It ends up lowering your odds to find everything else
since one of your 3 boon choices will always been that missing core
you’ve now ap1’ed yourself
given yourself only 2 options instead of 3 on every boon after
worthy jasper
Like do I reroll for a special boon now? I only have 4 dice atm.
worthy jasper
I'm not playing rn.
plain river
What’s the scenario then?
plain river
Yeah so you can actually even open merciful end
since you need either athena strike or special for it
worthy jasper
Well let's say I reroll to get drunken strike and then I reroll to get idk Zeus call or smth, etc etc.
And then I reroll for idk that sturdy after dash thing.
plain river
reroll because you didn’t see strike on your first boon
?
Don’t reroll for zeus call btw
worthy jasper
For example
worthy jasper
I mean I can't put Zeus on special so..
plain river
You can it’s just not the greatest idea here
worthy jasper
Like filling every core slot sounds like a nightmare.
plain river
You can always just take the L with vengeance of lightning reflexes or zeus cast and move on
plain river
Like filling every core slot sounds like a nightmare.
It won’t be precisely because the game favours giving you them
for the same reason it craps on your rng when you don’t have them, it’s easier to fill your cores
worthy jasper
I mean sure if you want literally any boon at all in those slots but that's not really what you want is it?
plain river
not really 
generally you want an extra core that won’t throw off your main duo odds
since most builds are focused around a specific duo
you don’t want to mess up those odds so you won’t take say demeter when you’re building ME since stubborn roots messes with ME odds
but rn I’m just trying to get across the concept of filling your cores to help your rng
worthy jasper
Like passion shot is kind of awful for the way I use casts so you won't see me taking that.
plain river
which is fair
If I have aphrodite and zeus in my pool I’d rather take lightning so I can atleast have my boiling blood from range still
worthy jasper
Ah so you understand.
I like to shoot it while I'm still at range before closing the gap.
plain river
Yeah, so you can be picky about it
But you still want to fill them early
So that it effects your odds for as little as possible
use own judgement as requiremd
worthy jasper
For the same reason I won't take dem lazor even though I don't hate it.
It just doesn't work with the strategy.
plain river
I mean the main reason for not taking dem is it just doesn’t work
you need a duo for it to be usable
and then you lose your boiling blood
worthy jasper
I don't know if there's viable builds but I think lasers only work if your entire kit revolves around them.
worthy jasper
Same with the blade vortex thingies.
plain river
The other half is just even when it’s at it’s peak
It’s not good
Hunting blades is good
like actually good
Unlike beam memes
worthy jasper
Yes but still need to build for them.
proper furnace
W/o duo it is kinda sad yeah
plain river
Yes but still need to build for them.
Yes, just like you need to build around your attack or you need to build around special for other builds
proper furnace
But beams also want you getting glaciar glare, poms in it, extra casts cuz you are using stygian soul
plain river
ME with no ME is also painful
Hunting Blades with no HB is painful
But meme beams is always painful
worthy jasper
Yeah but I'm saying there are casts you can pick that can supplement your strategy just fine even if they're not perfect.
plain river
yeah but there are also casts that can be as relevant as your attack and special if not more depending on aspect
Like achilles, beowulf, and hera all focus on their castd
worthy jasper
Like Artemis cast is probably the best generic complementary cast but others also work.
plain river
Arte cast is
It depends
Because she opens a ton of useless duos on a few builds
and so you wouldn’t want that
worthy jasper
It gains a homing thing which helps a wee bit if all you're looking for is a way to lodge a bloodstone.
proper furnace
If I'm thinking of random casts I'd go with thunder/phalanx/flood
Not thunder, electric
plain river
It’s less about the cast itself and more about the fact that her cast messes up your odss
for duos
In a lot of builds
Lemme just introduce a ton of mid duos
worthy jasper
I don't think heart rend is bad even in drunken fists.
plain river
It is bad because heart rend either only effects your cast or you need more secondary boons to even make it do anything
cuz then you need pressure points to even have a chance at critting on your hangover/ strike
worthy jasper
I suppose, I was thinking of Hunter's mark which I have used before but maybe that's actually convoluted?
worthy jasper
I know I was proccing it off something.
proper furnace
Is either that or PP
plain river
You need pressure points to prok off anything other then cast
on a artemis cast heart rend hangover build
worthy jasper
Could have been the call, don't remember.
plain river
and even then you still get your pool diluted by
plain river
Could have been the call, don't remember.
Then you have an even worse method of proking hm because it doesn’t work outside of boss fights
proper furnace
Isn't call also 10% anyways
plain river
arte call is
proper furnace
Yeah
plain river
/unreliable
worthy jasper
Doesn't work outside of boss fights?
proper furnace
But also I really haven't looked at arte call in a while lmao
Arte call is pretty much greater call or nothing
plain river
Doesn't work outside of boss fights?
Isn’t reliable outside of boss fights
proper furnace
And you aren't getting those on normal fights really
And her lesser call is basically another true shot
plain river
One arrow is pretty sad
worthy jasper
Why only greater?
plain river
You can use lesser but it’s unsustainable and unreliable for keeping up hunters mark
And it’s pisspoor damage
worthy jasper
I mean call is just a free damage button you hit sometimes right?
proper furnace
And sadly splitting headache won't work on hangover w/o pp
worthy jasper
Splitting headache?
plain river
I mean call is just a free damage button you hit sometimes right?
Yeah but you can also use it for free iframes instead
proper furnace
Splitting headache?
Arte-dio duo
plain river
Splitting headache?
Arte/ dio duo that also messes up your duo odds for hangover builds
proper furnace
Hangover increases crit chance
plain river
for things that already have a crit chance*
worthy jasper
Oh
proper furnace
I still hate that it works like that
worthy jasper
You need a base crit for that?
plain river
Hades wording is Hades wording
proper furnace
True!
proper furnace
Just wrong I think
worthy jasper
Does sound like one of those things made good by pressure points.
plain river
You need too much for them too work
worthy jasper
I'm just saying
proper furnace
Just wrong I think
Like they did some changes to either dmg or hit rate and whatever happened to vicious cycle happened
Also all those extra boons you are getting is poms probably stolen from hangover
plain river
I'm just saying
When you have pp, heart rend, and splitting headache, you barely even get the same average damage boost that low tolerance does by itself
worthy jasper
Vicious cycle?
proper furnace
Ares legendary
plain river
Vicious cycle?
Ares legendary
proper furnace
Cast/dash/call does more dmg for repeated hits
plain river
When you have pp, heart rend, and splitting headache, you barely even get the sa...
3 boons, 2 of which are duos, for the same effectiveness (or less) or 1 other duo
worthy jasper
What's the problem with it?
proper furnace
It's supposed to be +2 but
On cast/dash it's +1
Call works correctly
And flare (beowulf) is +0 lmao
proper furnace
Beowulf the aspects that keeps on giving
plain river
honestly it’s crazy how many flares are bugged
worthy jasper
Aren't there also positive bugs with beo?
plain river
there are
but just as many negative
Good thing the negative ones don’t matter
but the positive ones do
proper furnace
The worsts for like the meta flares are whatever is going on with crop and tiny flare no
Others are just ???
Oh and cast bug is a thing too
plain river
lets just make it a regular bolt unaffected by cast stuff
Mirage shot doesn’t apply does it
proper furnace
Nope
proper furnace
Or at least I think it doesn't
plain river
frost flares entire existence
proper furnace
Cuz yeah it has 0 cast dmg lol
plain river
Not a bug just bad
proper furnace
And I don't think that whatever code is behind it to summon the thunder works with mirage
worthy jasper
Not that the game itself is less fun for it but all of this is making me feel a little dumb.
proper furnace
Idk and why would I test it tbh
proper furnace
Not that the game itself is less fun for it but all of this is making me feel a ...
Everyone feels like this with beo
plain river
Not that the game itself is less fun for it but all of this is making me feel a ...
essentially: bugowulf has a lot of positive bugs, and a lot of negative bugs, but the negative bugs don’t really matter
proper furnace
To this day I know the bare minimum of the rotations tbh
worthy jasper
Like I keep hearing priv status because "the first two hits" or something.
plain river
Like I keep hearing priv status because "the first two hits" or something.
Yeah
The general idea being most things die within the first 2 hits
And since priv status won’t apply till you have 2 debuffs on
That almost always requires 2 hits
worthy jasper
And I'm like why do the first two hits matter when the remaining 250 deal more?
plain river
Wheras family favourites always applies
plain river
And I'm like why do the first two hits matter when the remaining 250 deal more?
Because the first 2 hits get the enemy dead
worthy jasper
But then you don't need any damage bonus anyway?
plain river
Not having family favourites active will lower the amount of enemies this applies to
proper furnace
But then you don't need any damage bonus anyway?
Is surprising how some small bonuses get you pass an hp threshold
That 25% can and often makes the difference
plain river
family favourites is a) always active, regardless of your build or status boons, and b) just barely pushes some aspects over the thereshold to 1 or 2 shot
worthy jasper
I don't think a little as of 25% will make things take 5 more hits to kill. Like at most it's like 1.
plain river
less actions used per enemy = better
proper furnace
I don't think a little as of 25% will make things take 5 more hits to kill. Like...
And that will add up over the run
worthy jasper
Is this like .5 seconds being as long as 40 years?
plain river
I don't think a little as of 25% will make things take 5 more hits to kill. Like...
The 25% is enough to make a a good difference on what is 1 and 2 shot able and one isn’t
plain river
Is this like .5 seconds being as long as 40 years?
It’s as long as 40 years relative to other things
proper furnace
Is worth to keep in mind that is either speedrun context or tight deadline context
plain river
The “very long time” is relative
like comparing the time it takes to do 2 dash strikes to the dash cooldown
The dash cooldown takes forever
proper furnace
I def feel the cooldown when playing sword cuz I'm bad at it
worthy jasper
I mean it takes me .5 seconds to hit dash twice so...
proper furnace
So I try another dash strike and just end up with standing attacks
plain river
I mean it takes me .5 seconds to hit dash twice so...
And now you have to wait a full dash combo before you can do it again
Idk, none of these are real numbers, their just proxies for whatever the true values are
either way
The proportional time it takes for the dashes to recharge
Is noticable
And within that time frame you can do say a dash upper
Or a special if it’s sword
for extra damage
plain river
So I try another dash strike and just end up with standing attacks
Same issue here
worthy jasper
Yeah it just adds another logistical headache for me
Coz if the special deals bad damage suddenly the build is bad.
plain river
Coz if the special deals bad damage suddenly the build is bad.
Not true
The special is free extra damage
worthy jasper
Like assuming there's no poms on it. Or a bad boon because someone told me to just pick any old boon.
plain river
The only bad option for fist special
Is pos special
Since it knocks your target away
you don’t need poms on your special for it to be a good rotation
even with no boons on special you would still use it
Just now with a say, big chonky aphrodite special boon
For your hangover build
You now have a way of applying weak that just works within your build
and you get your free damage from dash special
proper furnace
Also if this is dem aspect you'll get a good chunk out of it every so often
plain river
That’s the other part of having the rotation
proper furnace
Specially if you also find explosive upper
worthy jasper
Dem aspect sounds like a headache.
plain river
Every 12 hits my special does way more damage
worthy jasper
Yes, an extra thing to keep track of.
proper furnace
You get a big text saying the upper is charged
plain river
You don’t need to keep track of the 12 hits
proper furnace
And zag keeps glowing blu-ish
plain river
and with an optimal dps rotation you don’t even end up keeping track of it if you don’t want to
since you just special at the end of every dstrike combo
and if this one happens to be the one
worthy jasper
I mean to be fair the conflict is more with me originally not wanting to add the special button to the rotation. Or to pick a boon for it.
plain river
the enemy you’re facing can have the time of their (un)life