i was gonna try to get a quick sub10 but the damage is so bad
#h1-builds-and-combat
vagrant crane
tight basin
Oh lmao
warm snow
copycat
tight basin
i was gonna try to get a quick sub10 but the damage is so bad
Should've gotten splitting in Tartarus tbh
vagrant crane
first i ran hl5 lc2 cf1 em2 bp2 mm uc fo2 hs td3 or something
vagrant crane
Should've gotten splitting in Tartarus tbh
was doing tdash start
tight basin
That might've been the issue
vagrant crane
its better
wild stone
are duos based entirely on attack+special
warm snow
no
wild stone
if i do doom attack + divine dash does that unlock the duo for later
worn solar
you can get smair with just aphro attack and zeus call
vagrant crane
worn solar
oh thats cool
vagrant crane
i hate witches
vagrant crane
nope
they are never fun
there are so many of them
and they keep spawning
and they hide behind pil lars
rapid topaz
You should try with Zeus shield Athena, way funnier than it looks when it comes to witches
vagrant crane
that sounds like it would make my issue worse
manipulating the shield as well
i need a way to make them all pop into existence at once
wild stone
i have triple dash, divine dash, doom attack, and ME
all set gg
also a dash attack buff
impending doom free bonus dmg wow
vagrant crane
pom it
wild stone
that was my fastest run by far and i didn't even try for it, did extra rooms even
tight basin
ME kinda good
wild stone
is phalanx shot worse than crush shot?
vagrant crane
for hera yes
wild stone
phalanx shot with epic rarity says it is Higher damage
vagrant crane
otherwise no because crush shot sucks
vagrant crane
phalanx shot with epic rarity says it is Higher damage
??
vagrant crane
well if it's increasing the rarity
wild stone
will i lose out on the AOE from this tho
vagrant crane
what aspect are you on
wild stone
hera
vagrant crane
dont swap
phalanx is all fun and games on hera till it flies off into the distance for no good reason
worn solar
phalanx asphodel very unpog
tight basin
will i lose out on the AOE from this tho
you get more aoe i believe but then your cast flies off to infinity rather than dropping where you shot it lmao
crush shot has pretty decent aoe tho so it's not bad
you'd never take phalanx replacement unless it's like last boon before hades maybe lmao
eager flint
I feel like even against hades the phalanx shot will just zoom to mom's cottage every time you use them.
vagrant crane
you'd never take phalanx replacement unless it's like last boon before hades may...
cant wallbug tho
flat bone
Shield of Chaos... any suggestiond to take advantage of the 5 extra shields thrown around?
tight basin
Don't use that aspect lmao
tight basin
Shield special kinda just sucks unless it's Zeus shield
Low damage and long animation and when you use it you can't attack or block
flat bone
I see, but it's still fun to see 5 shields fly around the screen
proper furnace
Use the fused aspects mod so you can have 6 zeus shields flying
flat bone
That's a thing? Lmao
proper furnace
Yup
Fuses all 4 aspects of a weapon
And reworks some gimmicks of each so they are actually good
warm snow
is sword actually decent
round umbra
Shield of Chaos... any suggestiond to take advantage of the 5 extra shields thro...
Can use it to apply lots of hang over at once. Isn't great, but it there. Also as distance weapon for applying doom or bolts but that isn't fast either. ME with dire misfortune lol
wild stone
fellas how should i approach this here newfangled beowulf shield i've obtained
similar to hera bow?
wild stone
flood flare (poseidon cast)
better than aphrodite?
warm snow
oh
wild stone
the aoe thing
warm snow
well start with Pos in tartarus
vagrant crane
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B7qCbSaBgREflZ3Wm_5vXf95f8RLHwav-KbjUJifY0k/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H7EOP28oyu6t8KrBEfnrN-dQc6H_ssvAyYz3C1O2JOI/edit#heading=h.h953vyht4pua
warm snow
yea
wild stone
well start with Pos in tartarus
yeah that's my plan
warm snow
use charged shot
warm snow
ferocious guard is second best hammer
wild stone
yeah picked
warm snow
ayy
wild stone
oh my god i am Splashing
ran into snow burst by coincidence
you sure i shouldn't take it?
strange lark
snow burst is good
wild stone
seems pretty good still
strange lark
free damage
wild stone
guide says good despite being pommable
¯_(ツ)_/¯
either that or frost flourish
but i'm not ever using special anyway probably lol
vagrant crane
but those options already seem pretty good
thats why i said on screen
just take snurst
wild stone
ye it has been done
round umbra
For rav will, does having the casts loaded count as not having them?
vagrant crane
yes
round umbra
Nice
wild stone
yeah i just got that also
it's also not pommable
deadly strike is rare and flourish and pressure points are both epic :(
warm snow
take strike anyway
vagrant crane
deadly strike is rare and flourish and pressure points are both epic :(
o no
im missing out on
10% damage on my attack
wild stone
yeah the others aren't even that helpful lol it's whatever
vagrant crane
varies
wild stone
my hermes isn't even useful here either from what i can see
best option is just a defensive one
i don't really need triple dash or a faster special
warm snow
wait do you have max mirror
wild stone
not quite
vagrant crane
i don't really need triple dash or a faster special
roll
wild stone
greater haste + that one buff later would be better
vagrant crane
what rarity haste
wild stone
common
vagrant crane
3rd option
wild stone
greater evasion lol
vagrant crane
haste i guess
wild stone
unlucky
found another hermes with rush delivery
so i guess there's that
how many hermes can you find in one run?
vagrant crane
free global
wild stone
two?
vagrant crane
2
wild stone
nice
i guess that worked out
tight basin
Could be 3 if you buy in styx
wild stone
RIP no charged shot nor sudden rush
wild stone
mirage shot obtained
vagrant crane
artemis aid or pressure points
do you have dad call keepsake
vagrant crane
dads keepsake
wild stone
i do not have it equipped
wild stone
yes\
vagrant crane
take pp and use the sigil for styx
wild stone
wat
wild stone
sigil for styx??
vagrant crane
yea
wild stone
how am i supposed to swap i am lost
wild stone
no i'm like AT the end lol
wild stone
in the last few rooms before boss
bursting for 1.2k every time feels unfair
that was way too easy regardless idk why i stressed over final build pieces
idk what that keepsake does btw but i'll try it next time i guess
tight basin
idk what that keepsake does btw but i'll try it next time i guess
you get 50/75/100% more movement speed and damage buff for 1.5 or 5 seconds
it's really good for burst aspects
beowulf, hera, achilles, ME
vagrant crane
eris
wild stone
unlocked stygius aspect
time to do the Arthur run
is shattered shackle actually worth using
it looks like nothing stands out with this aspect at all lol
vagrant crane
is shattered shackle actually worth using
on arthur you can start shackle
arthur overall is like mega garbo
woven nexus
Sometimes it's just fun going Eris over Hestia
just so the rest of the ammo aren't just side-dressing and you can go rambo
also poseidon rockets are fun
woven nexus
Controllers are what i prefer when I have to do two different directional inputs at the same time
wild stone
tbh arthur hasn't been that bad so far on dmg
vagrant crane
17s heroes 
wild stone
absolutely never using it again tho lol too clunky
woven nexus
it has good damage but it's really not something you want for the usual higher heat sword strats
vagrant crane
sub6 seed too
woven nexus
jazz what are you muttering? That you're doing better or worse with controller?
It really is up to the player what's more comfortable
vagrant crane
this is so hard
woven nexus
I've played consoles before PC
so i do prefer controllers for action-oriented games
and KBM on more strategic or turn based
you can't expect to perform better on controller if you've never used it before in your life
vagrant crane
beowulf is a turn based game
woven nexus
except prepping with Beo for me is also Demeter freeze and decay
my favorite cast-loading boons
vagrant crane
i also fatfingered summon twice
618
that was probably a sub530 seed
im gonna upload that dad
it was so bad
woven nexus
they do have motor skills
its just that they reside on KBM
it's difficult to hardwire yourself to use a different medium
wild stone
damn i hated using arthur by the end of that
just too clunky
worn solar
arthur 
wild stone
you can still do ME with zeus on attack?
tight basin
lmao no
ME is the overall build
for a second god, you'd want either artemis or aphrodite
with artemis, you get lightning rod
aphrodite, smoldering air
although you'd need either zeus or dio call on top of that
ideally zeus since you already have supporting boons and wont open other duos
wild stone
i already picked zeus on attack so RIP to ME build i guess
wild stone
damn
i have poseidon call
but i have the option of epic Sweet Surrender
or smair
worn solar
get smair 100%
wild stone
clouded judgment seems pretty redundant with smair
vagrant crane
that it is
wild stone
is hermes or hammer more valuable to get first on gilgamesh
tight basin
probably hermes
wild stone
just cleared a trove in like 7s
narrow pike
Recently started seeing Theseus and Asterius using a combo attack where Asterius smashes into the shield, making a damaging wave exactly like skull waves on the final boss. Wiki calls this "Shield Bash". I think this only started happening after I completed EM4? Is that true? Or I'm just blind and didn't see it before, or had some bizarre RNG?
lean hornet
It’s a story thing, and doesn’t have anything to do with EM4
Basically, Theseus gets worried about his friendship with Asterius as you keep winning, and they now will do that move after Theseus is reassured about their bond
proper furnace
Yeah the friendship arc unlocks a new move
lean hornet
Bad explanation
random tapir
narrow pike
Oooh good to know, thanks for explaining
manic cradle
which boon rarity-increasing effects increase the chance of finding duos?
I'm pretty sure exclusive access doesn't but that's all I know for sure
proper furnace
which boon rarity-increasing effects increase the chance of finding duos?
God keepsakes iirc
Yarn of ariadne, Chaos favor, Refreshing nectar I know for sure
manic cradle
nectar from eurydice right
proper furnace
Yes
eager flint
Is the Arthur dash-strike hitbox weirdly small or I'm just the worst player of the underworld ?
valid dagger
might be a mix of both
eager flint
fair enough 
vagrant crane
takes a while to get up and even then is just worse than normal luci
warm snow
conc beam triple beam or targ
vagrant crane
targ
wild stone
idk that melted hades very absurdly fast
vagrant crane
like how long
wild stone
about 1m20s
wild stone
he kept just falling into phase transitions after a beam or two
vagrant crane
can pull about 28s
the thing is
on luci generally your biggest damage dealer is your special
300 base damage is a lot
and super soaker has u focusing all these boons on your atk
wild stone
yeah it was kinda weird to Not be relying on it but i didn't get the triple bomb from either hammer or anything
but i got pretty lucky with all my atk boons
mostly Epic rarity
vagrant crane
and it also sucks before u get duo
you dont get early poms on tdash or jolted because they dont exist
wild stone
i got somewhat lucky on poms later also
i also used the pom keepsake towards the end lol
round umbra
300 base damage is a lot
That's triple bomb?
vagrant crane
yea
wild stone
but yeah fair that's a good stack of reasons it's a bit of a meme
round umbra
And why Zeus special isn't great even if they explode easier that way
warm snow
and super soaker has u focusing all these boons on your atk
wall slam is your only damage before sea storm lol
magic dagger
slamdancer bomb outranges sword special
wild stone
i have option paralysis for what start to go for on this aspect lol
vagrant crane
i have option paralysis for what start to go for on this aspect lol
A beefy % attack, Aphro is very good (ideally not common), or you can go for Artemis because crits, any high rarity % attack can do except Poseidon (avoid that one), for the Special you want flat damage, it's not hard to come by, usually not worth forcing tho, Ares Dio Zeus are the main ones, you can go for Demeter and try to get Killing freeze, it can work pretty well, for the Dash there arent many options because most of them are either anti-synergy or just dont do anything, Artemis however is probably the best in slot dash, because Rama relies on dash strikes and getting dash strike damage is just good, Athena is a good one too because deflecting is nice, another important thing for Rama is hammers, ideally you want Triple Shot or Twin Shot for your first hammer, if not offered you can go for Perfect or Point Blank, and for the second hammer you usually want Perfect or Point Blank (assuming Triple or Twin first) but the order can be the other way here, if you get Perfect Shot as first hammer then it's fine too, hammers to avoid are Sniper shot (blocks Twins shot) and also doesnt do anything, and Repulse shot, Explosive is a bit of an odd one, it's nice in some scenarios but hard to play, Chain shot is okay, wont do much in bosses. Rama is difficult and needs practice but it's really good when it comes to heat especially, it's a good idea to watch vods of people who are good at it and try to implement their movement and decision making in your runs
wild stone
common impending doom vs Epic battle rage
seems like battle rage might be better
since this isn't really a ME build
hermes kinda seemin irrelevant on this aspect
tight basin
why is this a "meme build"
because the idea is to get sea storm, which is just lightning strike on luci except you can't start with it
tight basin
hermes kinda seemin irrelevant on this aspect
you'd still go for hyper sprint + rd
or more dashes
standard hermes stuff
gray cave
any advice for sub 10 on fists? pb is 11min30 I usually go around 15 tho
eager flint
Does the zagsword attack speed also affects dash-strikes ?
gray cave
zag aspect preferably
strange lark
any advice for sub 10 on fists? pb is 11min30 I usually go around 15 tho
merciful end
ares attack
athena special
athena dash
gray cave
yea by the time I get it it's usually late game tho 😭
strange lark
also use em2 and fo2
gray cave
the other day I got it by the end of asphodel which is the earliest I've got
eager flint
I think that's pretty average ?
strange lark
gray cave
yeah idk I get it rly late most times 💀
strange lark
and heres a general speedrunning guide
gray cave
Also impending doom on ME
dire misfortune does like nothing for ME right
cuz like there's not enough time to stack b4 it activates
proper furnace
yeah idk I get it rly late most times 💀
Time to learn the best strategy for ME
eager flint
It's good until you have ME
gray cave
yea
gray cave
speaking of lava the trap pact is my personal hell
proper furnace
Just skip half the combats
gray cave
wdym
eager flint
Step on lava and die to reset <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Yes, a very useful strategy that I use a lot, entirely on purpose, no accident, very planned
vagrant crane
could just do zap
gray cave
Yes, a very useful strategy that I use a lot, entirely on purpose, no accident, ...
em2 is way harder than it should be 4 me because of this
melts my hp
eager flint
Same
eager flint
I remember reading once that with chiron bow + thunder flourish, you can get 3 lightning strikes instead of 2 by firing sideways
is that true ? I just tried it in game and it felt right, but I had double strike so it's hard to gauge. And I'd imagine people have tested it already
warm snow
chiron speci works best with Poseidon or Dionysus
vagrant crane
I remember reading once that with chiron bow + thunder flourish, you can get 3 l...
you can get 2 instead of 1** sometimes if you make the arrows delay travel but its not consistent
eager flint
Ok gotcha
wild stone
opinions on athena or artemis on hera (already got aphrodite on cast)
vagrant crane
opinions on athena or artemis on hera (already got aphrodite on cast)
arty
get attack
pp is good
marked is good
dont be enticed by exit wounds it sucks
vagrant crane
unless you're on shadow presence
if you're on shadow presence take athena
and get parting shot
wild stone
lol found a greatest reflex
seems pretty redundant
vagrant crane
?
wild stone
then again this is very likely going to spec into dash attacks with artemis and maybe it helps chain those?
vagrant crane
no it's for mobility
wild stone
ok but do i need THAT much gofast bigdodge
vagrant crane
only helps with dps on sword spear fists and rail
vagrant crane
ok but do i need THAT much gofast bigdodge
yes
it's very helpful
especially when they all have iframes
wild stone
epic true shot > rare crush shot?
nah i like crush shot it's whatever i'll just take pressure points
tight basin
true shot is never worth a take on cast builds
wild stone
my new dilemma is heart rend vs sweet surrender
wild stone
uhh
tight basin
if you have enough i'd just take heart rend, but if you don't have any/much then i'd take sweet surrender
consistency is pretty important
wild stone
excruciating ambush but it's not very nice lol
tight basin
that's not too helpful against bosses but pretty solid in normal rooms tbh
but yeah just take sweet surrender
extra % after the first cast hit is nice
wild stone
run felt pretty good overall by the end
harsh pasture
Does the cast on Hera bow, with the two shot hammer, trigger twice or once?
Or does it just release the cast in between
vagrant crane
once
woven nexus
what other weapons would be nice with Rend?
I know Nemesis is a given
but what other weapons have good base attack damage to be fine with Aph/Art attack?
proper furnace
Zag bow
warm snow
but what other weapons have good base attack damage to be fine with Aph/Art atta...
guan Yu
untold mauve
idle hearth
What is a reliable build for the base spear
I want to finish the game on all weapons to get the reward
And I have no idea of how to make the spear work
warm snow
lightning strike
idle hearth
Would you please elaborate
warm snow
i mean
it's pretty simple
start with zeus attack
then get supporting boons
(static discharge)
or hunt legendary
idle hearth
Which other gods should I get
warm snow
also get flurry jab hammer
idle hearth
I suppose Artemis
warm snow
aphrodite on special
you're not gonna use the special but it opens up Smoldering Air
idle hearth
So Aphrodite on special and Zeus on basically everything else
Can I get athena dash?
warm snow
sure but tidal dash is also good
idle hearth
That's Poseidon?
warm snow
yea
idle hearth
So no Artemis at all?
I figured she'd be good because this is a very single hit relying weapon
But I never really used Zeus or Poseidon I'll experiment with them
warm snow
artemis is good for achilles aspect
idle hearth
Also while I'm at it, how do you unlock those weird big locks below the keepsakes
Is that something missable or will I just find out eventually
Because I'm done with the story but still never saw something about that
wild stone
i will go for this today
nevermind i don't have the keepsake to guarantee demeter wow
warm snow
Hermes
woven nexus
btw how does Batty's line work?
is it always perpendicular to where you're looking at?
that's what I'm feeling
woven nexus
well with that said, I at least know how to line it up now
I'll let experience give me the timings i need
nothing like actual runs to practice
I used to hate sword combat
until i was forced (by Darker Thirst) to get used to it
and now I prefer Nemesis crit builds over Poseidon cast builds
eager flint
nemesis is fun
woven nexus
Cruel Thrust, let's go! Nemesis run
to make this better i want a high rarity Hermes ASPD boon
vagrant crane
Cruel Thrust, let's go! Nemesis run
doesnt apply to dash strikes
woven nexus
no its fine
i know its the final combo ender
thats why i want Hermes Attack ASPD
makes the ender come out faster
warm snow
just play zag sword lol
vagrant crane
always eury
warm snow
Hermes can always show up later
woven nexus
also
from my experiences with Dio and Zeus calls
Sure, Zeus' syunergizes with a lot of good boons from him, especially Jolt
but I just love the Call and run away from Dio
Zeus requires a bit of closeness
warm snow
you'd like chiron
wild stone
what's a fun weapon / build to capitalize on privileged status
woven nexus
you don't?
vagrant crane
who does
warm snow
what's a fun weapon / build to capitalize on privileged status
merciful end or low tolerance
vagrant crane
PS ME
woven nexus
sheeeesh...
vagrant crane
low tol or passion flare
wild stone
low tol and ME are both pretty good on fists so i'll probably try it on fists
woven nexus
priveleged status is fighting against Family Favorite
one of the best ways to get damage
vagrant crane
and losing
woven nexus
you only need 4 different Olympians
and you already equal out
without requiring 2 status effects
wait no
sorry
wild stone
you'd get half
woven nexus
Privelege max is 40%
warm snow
FF is 5%/God
vagrant crane
ares dio
woven nexus
thats a good one...
wild stone
also switching to High Confidence probably
warm snow
yay
warm snow
what other good synergies with hangover?
art/aph call
vagrant crane
hangover best duos are low tolerance and curse of nausea
vagrant crane
dio and aph core and ares vengeance
woven nexus
and then probably add Ares
so anyways, I prefer Dio Call over Zeus nowadays
Call and run
wild stone
dio on attack, aph on dash /special, ares on call?
kind of a waste of call isn't it
given that ppl Allege that it's a weak one
woven nexus
Ares' is flexible iirc
vagrant crane
it does suck mega ass though
yeah its only attack special or vengeance that opens it
wild stone
damn that's kinda cringe
woven nexus
priorities on Aph Dio duo
stacking hangovers is plenty amazing
and both are guaranteed status effects
woven nexus
btw
when does the run stop adding more olympian choices
and just picking those you've gotten already?
wild stone
when you've obtained 4 i think
vagrant crane
4
wild stone
i wish divine dash rarity mattered
wild stone
it's so taunting seeing Heroic divine dash but already having an Epic tier dash that actually deals damage
woven nexus
the only dashes I'll keep over Athena's is T.Dash and Zeus' (with Jolt boon)
probably even Ares dash if i have good rift boons
warm snow
i wish divine dash rarity mattered
imagine it increased range
wild stone
passion dash isn't that bad idk
woven nexus
its not something I'd go for unless you really want weak procs for Rend or privelege
vagrant crane
its pretty bad
woven nexus
i really avoid Aph Calls and Dashes
vagrant crane
call is good
woven nexus
if maxed?
woven nexus
btw
i'm seeing that there's almost no point rerolling 2 times?
it seems to go back to the prev boon choices most of the time
and never procs duos
vagrant crane
idk where u got that from
woven nexus
i have rerolled 2 times when I'm desperate for a Duo. Not once have that 2 dice roll for 2nd attempt amounted to anything
most of the time the Duo comes to me on the 1st reroll of another boon attempt
woven nexus
ah
vagrant crane
woven nexus
not looking good. 2 DDs used up before Styx and no Rend still
also Hermes boon reappearing at the worst times
zero hermes boons still
does a higher rarity boon proc duos and legos better?
vagrant crane
does a higher rarity boon proc duos and legos better?
yes
yarn and nectar and favor all give +10%
woven nexus
Splitting Headache....ugh fine
I'm down with this too
too bad it's only Dio call
I'm still tied to Diamond and Blood buying in Styx
not until I buy out all the Clear Themes and max aspects
wild stone
wtf i forgot about fiery presence
that has to be super good for burst builds
maybe hera?
although i guess the cast burst technically comes right after the attack
vagrant crane
it's better almost all the time
woven nexus
Fiery is great overall and makes for very fast Tartarus kills
eager flint
I feel like I have to change my playstyle with Arthur. I need to be more mindful of my dashes and my attacks because of the long animation
Which does imply that I'm just winging it and mashing like a madman on every other aspect 
Which probably tells more about me than about the weapon
wild stone
just did a full run with lambent plume + fists lol
ended up with a shockingly (pun slightly intended) strong build for bursting most rooms down
woven nexus
yeah it takes a lot of experience to stop spamming mindlessly and panic dashing
and be more mindful on when to go nuts
i guess that's why I've been finally embracing using Swords traditionally and be a lot better using fists recently
When do you actually stop to increase more HP?
wait no
I guess the better question is
what's an acceptable HP cap to not get Hearts?
wild stone
what's an acceptable HP cap to not get Hearts?
idk like 150
i haven't played over 10 heat tho
i'm gonna go for a zeus shield ME build but i can't decide whether i want Epic divine strike or Rare divine flourish
i'm sure either is doable
eager flint
for me it's 100/150/200 for Tartarus/Aspho/Elysium
Styx I don't really care too much, I'm only taking the 2 miniboss rooms anyway (2-sack RNG willing) and for charon it depends on my build, I might want boons/poms more
vagrant crane
what's an acceptable HP cap to not get Hearts?
50
game gives u enough on its own
at 32 it’s nice to have like 150 on non beo stuff
same with 40
and then 50 i’m just taking everything i can get cause i suck
woven nexus
then i must be getting hit too much if 150 is enough HP
also I'm warranting a guess that you go Eurydice for her first option?
and pray it hits what matters?
vagrant crane
also I'm warranting a guess that you go Eurydice for her first option?
usually not
by far the most common option is nectar
vagrant crane
and rarity for heroes
woven nexus
heroes?
vagrant crane
hermes
woven nexus
mostly for the Dash count? That tends to be the one that really matters for rarity
unless you wanna have better chances for Hermes lego?
vagrant crane
mostly for the Dash count? That tends to be the one that really matters for rari...
rd
woven nexus
but that either requires Greater Haste for non-Beo and Hyper Sprint for Beo
would you go for Greater Haste first pick over more dashes?
just for a potential RD setup?
vagrant crane
dashes only on aspects where it’s more damage
woven nexus
wait....
vagrant crane
haste with rarity is an ok cope pick
woven nexus
does HB Achilles work with Hyper Sprint RD?
eager flint
the bonus attack speed on attack or special makes my brain happy, but I know it's not optimal. Still goes brrr tho
vagrant crane
does RD Hyper Sprint work on already-casted Rifts?
yes
woven nexus
doesn't RD fall off fast?
vagrant crane
no?
eager flint
pretty sure it's even always optimal
vagrant crane
yes
woven nexus
no goddamn wonder
would you consider going the cast boons of Hermes for Achilles or Pos aspects over RD?
wild stone
bro
i'm doing my first 16heat run and i just got
lightning strike, deadly flourish, divine dash, zeus' aid
and ALL were Epic
- concentrated beam
game is just straight up throwing the win at me
luci rail
lean hornet
If Zeus attack don’t you want eternal chamber
lean hornet
I meant over conc beam
woven nexus
In an ME Demeter build, how's Rush Kick? Would Draining Cutter even work if the Doom proc from ME Athena Special killed it instead?
Cause it's Draining Cutter, Rush Kick, Long Knuckle
I'm thinking of going Long Knuckle
I prefer going the hammer boon which turns Special into rocket fists since it has a faster animation making it better for spamming ME
narrow pike
Huh. Just found double Hermes and RD in Region 1. First Hermes was found in midshop, then I took an Erebus gate just before the boss shop, extending the chamber count, and got an option to pick up free Hermes in Chamber 14, which would normally be boss chamber number but got shifted by taking the Erebus gate just before the boss shop (Chaos does this too)
narrow pike
Really nice thing about pre-boss Erebus or Chaos is that it resets the shop doors. In this case, I had only the shop door and no gold, so it was going to be useless. Erebus gave me 3 doors, ergo free stuff. Doesn't even matter if you have to eat an onion
proper furnace
Extensiom hermes my beloved
woven nexus
regarding Heart Rend Nemesis builds
would it be better if you get Aph Atk and Aph Special
while you just Art requirement somewhere else?
like cast?
also does Erebus or Chaos just add extra chambers and not waste chamber count before boss?
narrow pike
Artemis attack improves your consistency by bringing attack crit to 45%. You can get additional Attack damage from Chaos if you're lucky
Personally I like consistency so I either don't bother with crit on slow-firing attacks, or try to stack it like this
All % stuff is additive, including global damage sources like RD, so the more of them you have, the less it matters that Artemis has low %
woven nexus
so its worth doing that even if it means needing the Weak to be applied through Special constantly?
narrow pike
It's not uncommon to take Artemis Attack/Special at common quality even if it's your main source (and never pom it later)
Nemesis spams Special so Weak shouldn't be a big issue
A better analysis would consider thresholds like do you one or two shot specific targets with or without 🤔
woven nexus
its because the Rend's point is it increases crit if enemy's weak
narrow pike
The best use of Heart Rend is on something high-crit, which typically means Arty Attack/Special (Nemesis with Arty Attack is perfect example) while applying Weak with another source
The lower your crit, the less Heart Rend does
When I want consistent Weak on enemies, I often go Passion Dash (for example with Fists Hangover Attack + Low Tolerance)
woven nexus
good point on Passion Dash
but you will still use Special either way to apply Nemesis buffs
narrow pike
BTW unrelated since someone was asking about Doom recently. The more I use the Shield, the better I feel about Doom on its Attack, because my playstyle is to charge instead of spamming Attack/Dash-Attack, and charge frequency aligns with Doom ticks
woven nexus
to have both Ath special and dash is the dream of ME
narrow pike
Tried shield ME with Athena Special and maybe my control of the flying disc sucks, but I felt it was totally not worth it
You get most of your Doom's value just by charging enemies, and Zeus / Hangover Special does way more
woven nexus
Thats why i mostly get Hammer fist boons which make Special that fast animation of rocket fists
it makes constant Atk->Spec->Atk-Spec very fast
it also makes for a long ranged Cutter train
rapid topaz
Tried shield ME with Athena Special and maybe my control of the flying disc suck...
Or you could reverse the choice with Doom for Special and Attk for Athena plus the Dash. Then make the Zeus shield return to you while running away from it across the room, where the shield blade hits, you just keep making a circle to enclose chaos
woven nexus
I cannot fathom ME build on Zeus aspect.
Shields ain't exactly the fastest way to proc MEs
Theoretically
what keepsakes would you use for Elysium the most generally?
or even Asphodel if you needed zero duos
I'm thinking Persephone's
Styx is always Acorn for me
narrow pike
Same here, Mom Pom → Acorn for me
Mom Pom tends to proc twice in Elysium
This is more viable when you have very few pommable boons, and less viable otherwise
proper furnace
Hourglass/purse/plume/sigil of the dad
narrow pike
For example if you're All Out On Zeus and much of your damage comes from his Legendary, maybe Lightning Rod, maybe Sea Storm, then poms do very little so I wouldn't bother
proper furnace
On extreme heat you may take tooth for aspho
lucid oar
Hourglass is op
narrow pike
Conversely, if you're building Rama or Hera with like 2 pommable boons, then Mom Pom is likely to hit useful things
"Sigil of the Dad"? 😂
Love the name. Just as good as "Mom Pom"
Hourglass is very playstyle dependent. Speedrunners seem to love it, you can buy from the Well between Region 3 and 4 and switch to Acorn while keeping the extra duration, and they even reroll the Well for more stuff to buy. But that's because they don't bother buying from the Region 4 shop (boons, poms). Personally I'd much rather complement my build with non-consumables from that shop, so I don't like the Hourglass
You get more value out of Hourglass if you play modded with guaranteed 2-sack, which some of us don't
woven nexus
Purse is something I consider excessive unless you're planning on buying that Diamond/Blood in Styx
as for Hourglass, not even I would go for that just for a Cast build
how does Styx burn down Item Encounter charges?
I don't think I'm even going near-max heat to even go for Tooth to heal on Aspho
and whatever non-Styx keepsakes you go for has to get its value before Styx
thus...Mom Poms
narrow pike
Actually kinda forgot to mention, I tend to start with Coin Purse because I like random "surprise me" runs, but whenever I don't, I often take Coin Purse in Region 2 or Region 3 if I have many pommables
More stuff to buy seems like a deal
woven nexus
I'm still not high enough heat for all weapons to have maxed rewards
so going pure fun runs is not yet in my consideration
narrow pike
If you're not all maxed, then just pick keepsakes that need leveling up 😂
woven nexus
I'm done with those
I've done all my levelings in my lower heat attempts leveling them up by doing ALL tunnels in Styx
narrow pike
how does Styx burn down Item Encounter charges?
Each corridor counts as Encounter for all purposes except Thanatos and Hermes keepsakes, which don't count
Mom Pom does count corridors
woven nexus
so thats why Bananas mentioned that some will go Hourglass on Styx for that Cast item
but i cannot see Hourglass being all that useful in Elysium picks
unless the point is to just make Ely run smoother with some decent pool items
narrow pike
You can buy in Region 3→4 Charon Well with big duration, then swap
narrow pike
It does with 2-sack, see above
valid dagger
3 sack even
woven nexus
Put Houglass on Ely
buy from pool on the fountain before Styx
then swap the Keepsake?
valid dagger
Yea
woven nexus
thats one way to get a long encounter pool item on Styx
and not keep Hourglass for Styx
might require using some rerolls to get a decent one though
valid dagger
Yea that's one of the most important wells for cast weapons
woven nexus
I might consider that for Cast runs
valid dagger
Hourglass is mostly a waste to keep in Styx
woven nexus
of course it is
but that is a consideration
It seems Mom Poms are still a clear winner for non-Cast runs in Ely
just praying it hits the boons that's useful
proper furnace
You can also just slap acorn on lol
proper furnace
Yeah
narrow pike
It seems Mom Poms are still a clear winner for non-Cast runs in Ely
Only assuming you're not still craving a specific god / duo / lego
woven nexus
You can also just slap acorn on lol
ehhhh, if I actually die on EM3, the run was really scuffed and no Acorn's gonna help there that much
valid dagger
Mom pom is rarely gonna do something at that point
Unless you have like 3 boons and they're all good
woven nexus
Only assuming you're not still craving a specific god / duo / lego
most of the time, those specific duos/legos i wanted were already on the first 2 olympians i picked
narrow pike
Dunno. For me, it feels like I crave more and more Duos and Legos all the way into Styx. Maybe that's why my runs end up as those screenshots
woven nexus
hmmmm
wait no
its a detriment to keep washing out boons and only keeping bare reqs and duos
proper furnace
God keepsakes on ely is rare
woven nexus
just to have a useful mom pom Ely run
its rare for me to go Olympian on Ely
that is unless
I managed to hit some good 3rd or 4th olympian to go for with their legos/duos
its hard to get what you want from a fresh olympian that just appeared in Ely.
maybe just want Rare Crop from Demeter? Or Urge to Kill from Ares
or Pressure Points from Art?
valid dagger
Most of the time there's no reason to have an open god pool going into Ely
proper furnace
Chances are your god pool is also full by aspho end
woven nexus
if your god pool is full (4 already appeared), a 5th god from keepsake won't spawn in Ely?
valid dagger
It will
valid dagger
yea
narrow pike
Here's an example. I just started Aspect of Zeus with "surprise me" Coin Purse. First god: Dionysus, so I'm going Hangover Special. Second god: Artemis, taking support boons like Pressure Points and Hunter's Mark, also True Shot (to open Duo), holding my Attack open for later, because I know what's coming. Finished Region 1 with 2 gods. Region 2: forcing Aphrodite for my Attack, gonna look for Low Tolerance. Chances are, by the time I'm going into Elysium, I'm still craving either Low Tolerance or Splitting Headache depending on my luck, so in Elysium I'll be forcing either Dionysus or Artemis to get that.
God keepsakes are not just good at the start. They're good in later regions when you're looking for Duo / Lego because they come with a hidden +10% chance buff for that
So if you're hunting for Duos / Legos it's nice to use god keepsakes after you've set up your prereqs
@outer sonnet Maybe this is the difference in approach that explains why my runs end up with more Duos / Legos (not saying that the builds are stronger for it, though), compared to the recommendations above
Could be a bad habit, I dunno
outer sonnet
I usually do this already
Thanks though
I don’t do very many runs per day so I don’t give myself very many chances.
analog mauve
me vs heartrend for nem
analog mauve
ook
valid dagger
crit build feels like crap without Double edge
narrow pike
Zagbow crit % only Attack?
vagrant crane
yes
tight basin
no lol
it's only worth it on aspects that don't care about fiery presence that much
so like fists and non hestia rails
"worth it" but like you dont actively go for it
if it's there you'd take it but you'd rather take marked first lmao
it'll just do more for those than others
round umbra
is support fire ever worth it on Hera bow
If you have nothing else useful on there and want to shoot for Fully loaded
idle hearth
What gods does Zeus typically go well with
And what are his good strengths in general
wild stone
aphrodite and zeus lets you get Smoldering Air which is probably one of the best duos if you want to be carried by a Call
valid dagger
What gods does Zeus typically go well with
himself
idle hearth
aphrodite and zeus lets you get Smoldering Air which is probably one of the best...
Is there really any reason to use Zeus? I mean the lightning strikes and the bolts jumping from target to target are cool
But it doesn't seem like it's worth it over
Aphrodite
and comboing her with other gods
valid dagger
On attacks that are fast you're always better off using Flat damage. Zeus is a great one for that
So for instance Fists attack, Rail attack etc
Aphrodite is for the high base dmg slow stuff
like Rail Special
Bow Attack
idle hearth
I figured so much because I see runners use him on rail
But isn't like
Ares better
Ares + Athena
To constantly proc doom
Or is that duo more unlikely than others?
wild stone
that's also very strong but yes it's harder for it to be good
valid dagger
It is alright but no not better. Doom does not stack, meaning that your first shot will apply the Doom then the rest of your clip is just raw rail base damage which is like 15 per bullet, it's awful. Meanwhile, with Zeus attack every bullet is base dmg + chain lightning on top of it that can bounce to other enemies, and it can go further with stuff like Jolted and Zeus Call.
wild stone
even without smoldering air if you go zeus + aphro on rail your damage is going to be good
idle hearth
Are different duo boons different in likelihood?
wild stone
ME is only comparably good once you grab the duo
valid dagger
They are all rolled the same but their prerequisites differ
wild stone
if you manage to, and assuming you have boons to make good use of it
valid dagger
It's not quite comparable on Rail
idle hearth
They are all rolled the same but their prerequisites differ
I suppose those prerequisites being that you have boons of both gods that have something to do with the effects the duo is based on?
wild stone
ME has hilariously high potential sometimes but i wouldn't use it on a speedy low base dmg weapon
unless i just want to do something different
valid dagger
I suppose those prerequisites being that you have boons of both gods that have s...
Yea broadly speaking. ME is strict because it only works off of Attack and Special which might give you the idea that it's less likely
wild stone
because you totally Can make ME fists strong too but zeus is just easier yeah
idle hearth
Yea broadly speaking. ME is strict because it only works off of Attack and Speci...
Is me the Athena + ares instant doom proc?
valid dagger
Even tough Divine Dash is a deflect boon it doesnt unlock it. It used to but it got changed because it would be too strong
valid dagger
Is me the Athena + ares instant doom proc?
Yes
idle hearth
I see
Thanks again, I'll listen to the advice and try to make my building better
One last question though
What is Demeter good for?
Because slowing doesn't seem like that good of an effect
Compared to damage procs
valid dagger
She has good supporting boons, mainly for cast builds. Her core boons are alright but their % is worse than Aphro and you can argue that their effect isnt that great
But they're very usable
wild stone
i feel like the slow would be more meaningful at high heat maybe?
valid dagger
Her cast is alright with the right build
idle hearth
When would I incorporate her in a build or pick her over different gods
wild stone
she's rarely a super high priority one for me
valid dagger
When would I incorporate her in a build or pick her over different gods
For example, on Hera she is the next thing you want after your Crush Shot
idle hearth
For example, on Hera she is the next thing you want after your Crush Shot
Because?
valid dagger
For Snow burst specifically because it helps a ton with aoe and especially in elysium
wild stone
snow burst lets you spam an AOE shockwave around yourself 3 times instantly
i agree yeah if you're doing a cast-based build or want privileged status demeter is a bit more relevant
valid dagger
You can load the stones to proc snow burst and kill the small eye thingies instead of having to cast on them
Same goes for Beowulf
wild stone
but priv stat is probably still more about dio
idle hearth
but priv stat is probably still more about dio
Dio carries me through the game so hard
valid dagger
i feel like the slow would be more meaningful at high heat maybe?
Damage reduction is so strong
idle hearth
I think I did half of my successful runs with Dio special Zeus shield
wild stone
ok but have you tried: zeus special zeus shield
valid dagger
Something like that
valid dagger
It's generally considered the best outside of Merciful End
vagrant crane
For Snow burst specifically because it helps a ton with aoe and especially in el...
how do u actually make use of it
i don’t get that much value but i force every time lol
valid dagger
Dealing with the eye thingies is a huge one, but it's big damage regardless
You're always close to enemies on Hera
You're splashing everything around you
Even better if you line them up
vagrant crane
i think i’m done with it anyways tho i’m so ass at it i pausescum enough that my rta during combat rooms is probably triple the igt
hera hard
and u do all that work and then you have to do… hera heroes
valid dagger
It's pretty hard on kbm and even harder if you're used to kbm and swapping to controller for it
hera heroes are something
pausescumming always messed my rhythm
On all weapons
I try not to do it
vagrant crane
i used to do it a lot more
vagrant crane
valid dagger
I have like 2 good hera heroes
valid dagger
around 8 seems good to me
idk what the absolute best is
but if I get less than 12s im happy with it
vagrant crane
but if I get less than 12s im happy with it
the absolute state of hera
vagrant crane
https://youtu.be/iD4V81piXaA
i see you went with the "just crit lol" strategy
valid dagger
indeed
but they did cooperate
when they get close together you can easily wallbug it
with their bubbles
but if they dont i just dont know what to do tbh
gotta ask croven
vagrant crane
i think you're supposed to reset
vagrant crane
thats flurry shot for you
tight basin
flurry shot moment
wild stone
But I'll probably always take Dio over that
if you do zeus + dio you can get Scintillating Feast and i think that's ok also
makes festive fog also strike lightning
idle hearth
But then I would have to put Dio on something else than my special
I guess that's fine if Zeus is on it
Maybe I'll try it
It sounds fun
I just don't like relying on cast or call
idle hearth
Yeah but I don't like Dio on my cast personally
idle hearth
I prefer my main damage to be special and attack
tight basin
zeus shield charges call pretty fast
idle hearth
Something I always have access to
tight basin
free supplemental damage and iframes
idle hearth
zeus shield charges call pretty fast
He also has the call charge boost boon
idle hearth
I'll think about this once I got better
tight basin
always use small calls btw
idle hearth
Atm this is too inconsistent for my noob ass
tight basin
unless it's aphrodite or artemis
idle hearth
I also like charging Dio call once in a fight
But usually only if I have the increased proc speed from
Ares..?
I think it was ares
tight basin
ares call kinda bad lmao
tight basin
oh yeah that's good with dio call
also dio full call is actually pretty bad i just realized lmao
tight basin
you'd probably like get only 1 or 2 full calls in heroes and hades fights
and the extended duration isn't worth it
bursts are more helpful to get you through to the next phase
like apart from zeus and dio
dem call you want to use those asap because those things last forever
ares call is more of a panic button
some with pos but that does more damage
artemis and aphrodite you want to use a full call on because otherwise it does no damage
athena is kinda just use however you want tho lmao
chrome solar
anyone got a fun build i could try
outer sonnet
Its not
vagrant crane
it's the beswt build in the game
outer sonnet
is it though
vagrant crane
outer sonnet
Sea storm chiron
vagrant crane
outer sonnet
Hera crush shot pos aph duo lvl 50
chrome solar
zeus special rama
vagrant crane
tight basin
name something better
eris route
vagrant crane
ok but beo route
vagrant crane
ok