Yep
#h1-builds-and-combat
round umbra
pseudo stream
Huh. The rarity is that big a deal there?
round umbra
If you have hyper sprint or other ways to make use of it yeah
pseudo stream
I only rarely take ambrosia but if it hits any good Hermes boon it feels great
round umbra
Hermes is the main downside to taking legacy over pride yeah
Rarity is very nice. Doesn't feel like a huge deal on rush delivery, but everything else
narrow pike
Folks have mentioned Aspect of Zeus on the shield as particularly strong. I’m assuming you want to get Zeus Special boon for it? Anything else to know?
valid dagger
Folks have mentioned Aspect of Zeus on the shield as particularly strong. I’m as...
Just look for more Zeus, particularly Jolted and other damage sources
narrow pike
Sounds about right, will try later today
narrow pike
Thoughts on building Aspect of Lucifer? Seems to want the same things as most other aspects: Zeus Attack, Aphrodite Special? Anything else to know?
lucid oar
Triple bomb is the best hammer
When the aspect is maxed out, the special has pretty massive base damage
narrow pike
Hmm good to know, haven't tried Triple Bomb yet
...Started run, instant hammer, INSTANT Triple Bomb
round umbra
Athena special is fun
narrow pike
At this point I'm about 99% sure that the game spies on this channel
narrow pike
Looking for advice on Rama. It just killed my run (and my streak), and I wonder what I could have done better. Had Artemis Attack, Zeus Special, Hermes boon for attack speed, some Attack hammers, and none of that seemed to really work. Even with the Hermes boon, Attack charge rate was horribly slow, and I felt like I could not really use it much. Special was very usable, but the Zeus boon could not carry its DPS all by itself, due to the lack of any meaningful base damage, so while it was decent at killing weak enemies, it was pathetic against anything tougher. Both of the firing modes had low effective DPS. Attack can't even destroy enemy shots, only Special can. And neither of them has any meaningful crowd control.
And it has been prophesized that the Prince will take Rama to the surface. The Fates won't be denied
Maybe I need Demeter to chill them down to my own sluggish level
round umbra
Hermes attack speed boost only boosts standing strikes, not dash strikes
round umbra
Dash striking should speed it up a little but rama attack is definitely a big heavy high risk, high reward.
narrow pike
I was dash striking, failed to notice lack of boon effect because I was already tilted by then
round umbra
I often dash up so I don't have to charge the attack as long. I think others might be good at choosing their moments at range.
Rama definitely takes a lot of practice.
worn solar
Looking for advice on Rama. It just killed my run (and my streak), and I wonder ...
generally with rama you want to tag everything with special for the shared damage debuff then dash some distance charge up a powershot to take everything out. getting twin shot helps a lot with this, aphrodite attack is generally more consistent
narrow pike
Hmm having my doubts about that debuff, the duration is not very high, so by the time you're done setting up marks and positioning, it falls off of some enemies, plus the damage it transfers is not a very high percentage... but maybe I just need practice...
worn solar
https://youtu.be/Vm9hha2HWDA can watch this to see it in action
round umbra
7 seconds is not very high duration?
worn solar
Hmm having my doubts about that debuff, the duration is not very high, so by the...
try to hit multiple enemies in one shot not just one, the shared damage is from the total amount you deal with your attack so collaterals make it much larger
narrow pike
Hmm the player doesn't bother charging shots to full most of the time
worn solar
yeah cant get a powershot off in every position and a full charge isnt always needed to kill
narrow pike
Maybe that's what I was missing
Guess I'll try this approach. Set up Special, then Attack groups if possible, prioritize safety over full charge
round umbra
Ah, yeah, I hardly ever get a full shot off (but I'm sure learning to do it at the right times would help me)
vagrant crane
should i make a build directory
valid dagger
A what
vagrant crane
like
a list of things where it says for each aspect in the game you go and do ME
oh wait lap already did
but that was for speedrunnig
eh good enough
valid dagger
Isn’t the link we have pinned here kinda similar to that
vagrant crane
oh damn it succeeded on my test
i didnt expect that
it has blizzard shot talos
yea good enough then
all the guides are done i have nothing to write
valid dagger
Write something specific
vagrant crane
hey guys here's how you play the aspect of beowulf
wait
hey guys here's how you play the aspect of hestia
uhhhh
im out
valid dagger
make a mirror guide
vagrant crane
so true nobody has ever done that ever before
im not talking to the mirror guide creator
valid dagger
It’s not a real guide it’s just some brief explanation, that’s why I wanted to make a better guide
But gave up on it
vagrant crane
ok
valid dagger
There’s a good video guide there has to be a good written guide to go with it
If you want another idea make a guide on how to play hades spear
vagrant crane
i'd write how to play nemesis if i knew how to play nemesis
narrow pike
Hmm nice mention of pins, just checked the pinned guide and there's some good info
vagrant crane
the build guide kinda puts too little stock in ME
there's like one sentence on neMEsis and a whole paragraph about dio atk
outer sonnet
What is a good weapon to run smair on
outer sonnet
I dont have the aspects for fists or guns since I dont use them much
Im pretty new to this game
vagrant crane
the premier wep for it is hestia
on most other things its kinda supplemental
nemesis maybe
vagrant crane
hestia is worth getting though
outer sonnet
What makes hestia good for smair
outer sonnet
Oh
vagrant crane
and since it lacks aoe zeus call is helpful
outer sonnet
Aph atck
vagrant crane
and artemis attack
outer sonnet
Zeus spec?
vagrant crane
zeus call is the best damaging call
warm snow
Zeus atk is usable on sword
vagrant crane
more a high heat thing
outer sonnet
So zeus or aph atck?
I feel like Zeus atck and call with aph special would be good on nem right
vagrant crane
meh
aphrodite attack generally better
but artemis attack aphrodite special also works
because that opens up heart rend
warm snow
you don't use special for damage on nem
outer sonnet
Should I get zeus or dio call on smair
vagrant crane
zeus call
some of the reason dio call is good is that it's self charging
and also zeus call is generally better damage
outer sonnet
Oh ok
round umbra
Eris sounds very fitting
Zeus attack
Aphro special
Boost the damage by 75%
Seems like a clear winner
round umbra
The extra boon for +75%
vagrant crane
well like
eris is rlly good at charging call
you have rail attack hits
zeus chain lightning hits
special hits
tdash hits
possibly shoals hits
jolted hits
u dont really need smair
round umbra
Yeah I get that point and the fewer boons point
pseudo stream
Lucifer question: if you dash while shooting, does the ramp reset?
pseudo stream
Even with the Zeus you still want it to ramp no?
vagrant crane
meh
narrow pike
Is it possible to reroll into a Duo boon?
warm snow
Yes
narrow pike
Oh nice
round umbra
Just can't get duos in trial rooms
narrow pike
Oh really? That's good info too
round umbra
Yeah, is a bummer.
warm snow
all good
what's your build
warm snow
oh room 1 i cant read
lean hornet
10 heat EM4
warm snow
i'd take cluster ngl
and hope for rocket bomb
worn solar
yeah pick cluster
warm snow
lemme think
lean hornet
Cluster is taken
warm snow
best hestia hammers
clockets
hazard bomb
ricochet fire
explosive/piercing is if you can't get ricochet
lean hornet
Do I take epic special damage from chaos
warm snow
yes
warm snow
better
lean hornet
Restart?
tight basin
if it's just em4 by itself the difference shouldn't matter too much
unless you get absolutely steamrolled in styx
tight basin
Do I take epic special damage from chaos
chaos buffs on hestia are almost always beneficial lmao
you take attack, special, and dash strike always (idk what should be priority, prob just whatever has higher rarity or damage)
more hp is always good, can't complain
more damage on first hit also helps a ton in normal rooms, just not as useful against bosses
the only ones that suck are just the meta game resource stuff
more gold or more darkness/gems aren't that great in general tho
favor is alright but considering how many beneficial stuff you could've gotten it's pretty cope
oh grasp and shot are useless i forgot about that
50/50 chance per slot to get something useful
60/40 if you count favor as good i guess
warm snow
forgot first strike was important
woven nexus
Fiery Presence was sold to me really well by the players here. Maybe it's jazz
but it makes sense.
You can't rely on backstabs forever
especially not against a butterfly ball.
so any buffs to first hits are welcome
worn solar
fiery prescence is half because of tart
unless its hestia it wont really matter by elysium
tight basin
yeah lmao fiery presence is mostly for early game
tight basin
but also you're generally not getting 2 backstabs on a non-boss enemy consistently so fiery presence is just generally better
free damage you dont have to think about
pseudo stream
Huh. So Beowulf casts make you lose iframes even while dashing?
tight basin
Yeah lmao
pseudo stream
That explains so much random damage I’ve taken over the runs
But what the heck, that’s a ridiculous bug
Does Athena dash fix that?
tight basin
But what the heck, that’s a ridiculous bug
Dw Beowulf has a lot of other bugs
tight basin
tbh i've never really thought about it that much lmao
woven nexus
Goddamit. My strongest Hestia build so far with so many boons to strengthen dash strikes....wasted on the 10th clear of Hades freebie
woven nexus
the stinger?
I had a miserable Hera run before this
that I can't just goddamn find the Satyr bag
Died on the 5th tunnel i went in
i knew it was the 10th clear too
round umbra
Oof
lean hornet
Level 10 rare ares attack
DF
DD
35% dodge chance from zag fist+epic Hermes
NO ME
WHY
tight basin
Classic
lean hornet
Is EA duo good if at asphodel end shop
tight basin
not bad if you still haven't found both hermes
generally not much else you'd want at that point
lean hornet
I beat the run but yeah I diddnt
tight basin
i guess if you haven't found impending doom in your ME build
outer sonnet
Can someone help me in #h1-discussion
lean hornet
No it was a new run but I diddnt
Was Dionysus Zeus sheild
Starting a new ME run now
lean hornet
Styx shop, epic ares attack to level 6 or epic impending doom to level 4
Nvm taking impending
echo sable
do attack dmg bonus things like extending jab's 40% damage buff also apply to dash attacks?
turbid needle
What attack boon would you use with crush shot hera? Artemis or somebody else?
lucid oar
Artemis probably best although it doesn’t matter too much
tight basin
do attack dmg bonus things like extending jab's 40% damage buff also apply to da...
yes
round umbra
Okay now I have ME on crush shot hera. The possibilities in this game are fun
And I skipped patty to get another athena boon. And also have curse of longing and ME for some nice antisynergy lol
And a trial yay
narrow pike
Beowulf with Charged Shot hammer and Stygian Soul against last boss: boxed myself in a corner, sitting there in complete safety, shooting everything. Not usually a fan of turtle strats but this one seems to be working
The boss gets confused and doesn't even always attack you there, runs randomly around but within shot range
random tapir
I'm into turtle cheese stuff still because I have a lot of trouble dodging all of hades attacks
So far I've had some nice runs with Zeus shield, hestia (decent amount of hiding behind pillar and triple mortar over it), and almost got a Demeter beam clear
round umbra
Even when turtling I can t stay totally safe.
celest bloom
If given the option to pom up Doom damage or Impending Doom, which is better?
narrow pike
I use a quick napkin calculation in such cases
Both effects should be multiplicative to each other (unless something's bugged), so you can divide the new value by the old value and compare the increase
Often by the time you find Impending Doom, your main Doom source is a little pommed, so some poms definitely go into Impending Doom, but then you have to calculate
vagrant crane
Both effects should be multiplicative to each other (unless something's bugged),...
they're additive
narrow pike
Really? Doom number looks like base damage, Impending Doom looks like a percentage. Base and percentage are always multiplicative with each other
You gotta be more precise
vagrant crane
all damage is additive
narrow pike
Base damage is multiplied by percentages
vagrant crane
if you have 25% global, 35% global, and a 100 base, itll do 160
i know how math works
narrow pike
Base damage increases (from hammers) are additive with other base damage
But you can't put base damage and percentage in the same sentence and say it's all additive, becase base and percentage are mutually multiplicative
However, all percentages tend to be additive with each other, so... Impending Doom is additive with global percentage increases?
That would change the napkin calculation
Anyway the above is just semantics and definitions, more importantly, Impending Doom additive with global, true or false?
vagrant crane
yes
lucid oar
I think the general guideline is to keep curse of pain/agony 2 levels higher than impending
But the more global damage you have, the more you wanna focus pomming curse of agony/pain
vagrant crane
esp rd
lean hornet
Does firey presence affect summons
lucid oar
No
lean hornet
N o o o o o o o
round umbra
Says just attack and spacial, right?
lucid oar
It’s so op in chamber 1
torn iron
for nemesis sword should i just go for a crit build
lean hornet
Dunno
tight basin
Yeah you can
torn iron
is the boon with the marked effect good
worn solar
really good for room clear
outer sonnet
@narrow pike don’t stress over it too much. Often times the build doesn’t come together and you have to start over.
But there are some things you can do to help it.
I think the guide has a section on controlling your build.
narrow pike
Well, I don't rely on duos, but would be nice to know how to improve consistency
outer sonnet
You should look into that.
narrow pike
And yeah I've read that, pretty good tips there
outer sonnet
Mhm.
Also, if your going for a build that relies on duo boon/s. Consider gods legacy.
Most of the time gods pride is better but for builds with multiple duos or builds that rely on a duo to do anything, definitely use it.
narrow pike
There are some nice little tricks I'm still learning, like if you have a god keepsake that hasn't been used yet, and you see two chamber entrances with two gods which have yours and another good one, you can pick the other god, preserving the keepsake until you're forced into one entrance where the forced god lets you avoid an unwanted one
There might be more pathing tricks like this
outer sonnet
Yeah thats a great tip.
narrow pike
And yeah I might try using Gods' Legacy a bit more purely for exploration and consistency purposes. It just annoys me getting common Hermes boons
Everything else you can pom, but Hermes you're stuck with what you get
outer sonnet
But if you still want to build for hunting blades, start with artemis, ares is fine but early game with be harder.
Stick to 2-3 gods in tart
And swap to the second forced god in aphodel.
After you get the ares cast
Pom it as much as you can.
Then go for stuff like engulfing vortex, black metal, and ares legendary.
Chaos is also really good because it can give you more casts and make you casts stronger
narrow pike
Any sense picking Centaur Heart over a Pom, ever?
outer sonnet
No not really
Unless you have less than 200 hp and your going into elysium boss fight or dad
I like to make sure I have atleast 200 max hp when im heading into elysium
But of course I tend to take a lot of damage
narrow pike
Heavily cast-oriented builds with Stygian Soul feel especially risky because it's so easy to miss sources of ammo. I know there's Artemis, Chaos, and Hermes regen speed, but I've had runs where I missed all 3
I suppose there are also Charon wells...
outer sonnet
Yeah. Its like high risk, high reward
If you do pick stygian soul though, go for chaos as he can give you more casts.
It pays off its just a little risky
If you dont get extra casts from chaos or artemis legendary.
proper furnace
Unless you have less than 200 hp and your going into elysium boss fight or dad
Me when I reach dad with like 100 hp 
outer sonnet
The prometheus stones are good
proper furnace
Dont diss the hearts too much
narrow pike
Had a run like this yesterday, with Achilles Aspect, Poseidon Cast, missed all sources of ammo, picked Demeter+Poseidon Duo not knowing what horrible things it does to your cast, and died to running out of time on the final boss because my cast was doing horribly little DPS and I had no other sources of damage 🤦♀️
outer sonnet
And the item that boosts cast damage.
You can take advantage of charon keepsake when you enter elysium to extend the encounters for those items
outer sonnet
Had a run like this yesterday, with Achilles Aspect, Poseidon Cast, missed all s...
Dang that sucks
I like builds where you still have a somewhat reliable source of damage even if you dont manage to build your build
narrow pike
Is there any sense using Demeter+Poseidon Duo cast, ever? It just misses enemies and wanders about aimlessly
Similar to her frustrating turrets
acoustic skiff
don't diss my turrets
outer sonnet
Turrets yay
acoustic skiff
but yeah poseidon demeter duo I don't like
narrow pike
I know turrets can DPS, but getting them to actually hit enemies frustrates me personally
outer sonnet
Yeah its a meme build for sure
outer sonnet
I know turrets can DPS, but getting them to actually hit enemies frustrates me p...
Use crystal clarity
narrow pike
Never managed to get it. Not reliable
acoustic skiff
turrets are meme build but I don't see what even the meme is with blizzard shot
outer sonnet
turrets are meme build but I don't see what even the meme is with blizzard shot
Its funny cuz it sucks
outer sonnet
Never managed to get it. Not reliable
Start with artemis
narrow pike
Plus you have to suffer through 2-3 regions until you get it...
outer sonnet
And get demeter in asphodel
outer sonnet
Plus you have to suffer through 2-3 regions until you get it...
If you start with artemis its chill
narrow pike
Might give it another go with Gods' Legacy then...
acoustic skiff
I've had beam build where literally the last boon in Styx was crystal clarity, that was not a fun run
round umbra
Everything else you can pom, but Hermes you're stuck with what you get
There are some other boons you can't pom. Nourishing soul, rare crop, the fountain damage boost from dio,
round umbra
But then dad fight is a walk in the park
proper furnace
Is there _any_ sense using Demeter+Poseidon Duo cast, ever? It just misses enemi...
Don't diss the duo that got me my first win
narrow pike
Well, I remember the other non-pommable boons, but those don't matter as much as Hermes
proper furnace
Talos + blizzard shot and rd lmao
narrow pike
Funny, my first win was with Demeter turrets, turtling behind Chaos Shield
round umbra
Was about to say, talos pulling things for positioning does seem interesting.
narrow pike
So I feel like I get to diss them all I like
acoustic skiff
Demeter turrets was my first win too lmao, with spear tho
outer sonnet
My first win was some goofy posiedon dio thing
acoustic skiff
I had clarity tho
outer sonnet
Wasnt even a build
round umbra
Wasn't my first but was my highest heat for a while
outer sonnet
I just went in with collar on 💀
proper furnace
Talos + blizzard shot and rd lmao
The reason I got this duo in the first place is cuz I just obtained the codex upgrade to see boons at that point
round umbra
Collar seems kinda reasonable esp without hard labor
proper furnace
So I saw it on the list and thought it seemed interesting lol
acoustic skiff
for me the weirdest duo is ares + poseidon, it's so weird
proper furnace
What are the best hangover weapons
Eris
outer sonnet
for me the weirdest duo is ares + poseidon, it's so weird
What is that one
round umbra
What are the best hangover weapons
Rama is alright
outer sonnet
I dont remember
acoustic skiff
curse of drowning, the pulse one
proper furnace
Curse of drowning
outer sonnet
Ohh
proper furnace
Casts pulse around you
acoustic skiff
3 pulses instead of flood shot
proper furnace
It also blocks mirage shot so that's funny
outer sonnet
Damn
Thats terrible
Yo everyone
Trade builds
I need fun
Gimme fun build
NOW
acoustic skiff
I mean for me the most fun is either demeter turrets or ME
proper furnace
Obligatory super soaker mention
acoustic skiff
I've done super soaker like two days back and Styx is fun to go through with that
outer sonnet
It takes years to even get it going
acoustic skiff
I love big number
round umbra
Achilles with zeus cast
proper furnace
Styx with any poseidon is so fun
outer sonnet
Once you get it its fun
acoustic skiff
super soaker + triple laser
outer sonnet
Zag zeus or chaos shield sea storm is fun
narrow pike
What is "super soaker"?
proper furnace
Lucifer + pos attack
acoustic skiff
hidden gun aspect with poseidon attack
proper furnace
Grab sea storm to actually have dmg
narrow pike
Haha I can see where the name comes from
round umbra
OH
Athena special on Lucifer is very fun
And if you happen to accidentally get ME build that is also fun
outer sonnet
The athena zeus duo is fun too
proper furnace
True
outer sonnet
You got this bouncing deflecting ball of death
proper furnace
Lightning shot on steroids
narrow pike
When you drop Lucifer balls on the ground, do they continuously deflect things around?
With Athena Special
proper furnace
The pulse should deflect yeah
round umbra
Super fun in witches circle and against em thesius
narrow pike
Huh it even protects you against his spear throw? 🤔
round umbra
More the bombs
Spear might be too fast for it to catch usually
But the bombs get glitchilly deflected all around the air.
warm snow
Styx with any poseidon is so fun
Well with breaking wave
narrow pike
Hmm... I think I've been told here that going into Region 4, you can use a keepsake to force a 4th god, and then you will only get your previous 3 gods + 1 forced god in the temple. Well, I just did exactly that, and got 2 additional gods (3 earlier + 1 forced + 1 random).
vagrant crane
Hmm... I think I've been told here that going into Region 4, you can use a keeps...
why would you be told that
that's false
anybody could tell you that's wrong
analog mauve
how do you play chaos shield
narrow pike
Funny, looking at the costs of Mirror talents, cheaper is always "better" (arguable) with the exception of Deep Pockets. Could be a nice and simple guideline for newer players: "go for cheaper ones"
analog mauve
persuasion: 👁️ 👄 👁️
narrow pike
Death Defiance max rank is more expensive than Stubborn Defiance, but even incomplete it can be better. It's a toss-up. So yeah some edge cases but overall it's a guideline
round umbra
how do you play chaos shield
I think the strong but harder to do strat is to do curse of nausea build on it, aphro attack and point blank use the special to apply 6 stacks at once. I just used it to do the shield strat I was comfortable at the time and hit more things with doom and then hide.
proper furnace
persuasion: 👁️ 👄 👁️
Persuasion is overall cheaper than authority lol
analog mauve
oh i thought they meant indivudual upgrades
woven nexus
btw how do you deal with Theseus with Rama?
just patience when his walking with his back open?
I really wouldn't want to proc his Phase 2 by sharing him with Asterius
tight basin
Kill asterius first then lmao
round umbra
If they're shared and you only shoot asterius, asterius is taking 2.67x as much damage.
lucid oar
how do you play chaos shield
Thunder flourish is good, with other zeus boons too
Or you can just ignore the special entirely and use charged shot
round umbra
but the bolt Cool down timer
analog mauve
woven nexus
If your weapon prefers getting a Duo, would you still go for God's Pride because of its value over Legacy?
acoustic skiff
I don't think I've ever used Pride
woven nexus
well I'd certainly pick it if a build doesn't require a Duo
tight basin
If your weapon prefers getting a Duo, would you still go for God's Pride because...
Most builds aim to get a duo but don't need them to be good
They still use pride for better Hermes and chaos rarities
And other rarity dependent stuff
woven nexus
yeah i accounted that Pride will proc every boon you get so that's really good value compared to increasing Lego and Duo chances that require prerequisites that sometimes take a long while to get to
tight basin
The builds that do use legacy can get by without it lmao
Merciful end prefers pride actually because otherwise you'd end up with common doom a lot
woven nexus
yeah Beo's still strong with just Flood Flare
tight basin
And epic Hermes on ME goes hard
tight basin
yeah Beo's still strong with just Flood Flare
Yeah it works not too bad in Elysium lmao
No mirage becomes more of a problem at heat and speed
Some runners use pride, others use legacy
Personal preference
woven nexus
now that I've finished my Lego and Duo hunting for Fates, I might just reset my mirror again just so most of the Legacy darkness goes to Persuasion levels.
tight basin
Based honestly
random tapir
It feels like maxing out persuasion is going to take forever
woven nexus
the last mirror skills will always take forever
random tapir
after saving darkness for a while I finally got one level of persuasion. 1K out of 10K
like I think I"ll have most of the aspects I really want at a good level before I max persuasion lol
which is definitely not something I expected
round umbra
after saving darkness for a while I finally got *one* level of persuasion. 1K ou...
Persuasion only goes to 4
Oh but price goes up? Idk
random tapir
would be a lot easier to swallow if it stayed at 1
the good thing is that when you switch to persuasion, keys now give you persuades instead
round umbra
Thought it was like 1250 1500 etc
random tapir
so, usually even with just one rank, you end up being able to do 2-3 persuades in a run
well, I didn't check the second rank in game, but the wiki says 1-2-3-4
round umbra
Yee
random tapir
and so far the wiki has been pretty accurate for me
I finally had a good run with poseidon, which was pretty cool. I knew the aspect had the potential, just didn't play great before or didn't get the boons I needed.
ended up being my fastest run, on my first sword clear, which was nice (though I generally play pretty slow).
I had 4 bloodstones, poseidon shot, exit wounds, forget what else
random tapir
so, the rest of the build is basically whatever then? As long as doom-attack and athena-dash?
vagrant crane
so basically just get doom, athena special and dash, pom the doom a lot, get ME, get impending doom from ares
you need the duo
and kinda impending doom
random tapir
right, the duo too
vagrant crane
with a pom or two
random tapir
why is athena special important?
vagrant crane
it opens the duo
random tapir
oh dang
worn solar
dash isnt a prereq
vagrant crane
dash doesn’t
random tapir
I didn't realize that, okay
random tapir
that's fairly specific, hopefully I can make it work then
ah, sea storm...
It's like half of my completions
vagrant crane
once you get it online it’s one of the best builds in the game
random tapir
that's why I anted to get ideas, was getting a bit stale, going for things I've already done too much
random tapir
I'm kind of listing out good duos because I can get duos semi reliably, usually, (unlike legos)
Artemis seems to have very few terrible ones. want to try some crit build stuff.
I've had Artemis mixed in but never had her as the main
vagrant crane
There was a time when every one of my runs was thunder flourish Rama
i had an aph arthur arc i uploaded like a 2:30 dad fight thinking it was lightning fast
vagrant crane
Artemis seems to have very few terrible ones. want to try some crit build stuff.
arty has some good duos
what are the big ones
mirage and rod?
random tapir
Oh, I did beyblade successfully
vagrant crane
heart rend
vagrant crane
hunting blades
random tapir
took a long while to get online but damn
vagrant crane
splitting headache is pretty bad
tight basin
mirage and rod?
Mirage is only big on beo tbf
random tapir
Does pressure point/hunter marks work really well with beyblade?
vagrant crane
well beo does happen to be big
tight basin
Fair lmao
vagrant crane
Does pressure point/hunter marks work really well with beyblade?
well it’s pretty good
assuming you’re on achilles pp is not 100% necessary
random tapir
It seems pretty cool. I wanted to play around with stuff that activates hunters mark a lot. It's good gameplay.
vagrant crane
you can just get arty atk and marked
random tapir
Yeah, I had a level 1 achilles, even that
the damage is pretty silly
once they track you don't really need to think very much
it's just a bit annoying for me until you get there
it's not my favorite cast to use when it doesn't track
it does seem to charge the god gauge at a pretty insane rate is another nice bonus
tight basin
it's just a bit annoying for me until you get there
Achilles can kinda carry itself until Elysium so you kinda rely on the attack until then
vagrant crane
a lot worse without flurry
tight basin
I mean it's doable
random tapir
I'm at pretty low heat so the first two biomes are generally pretty simple
Except the witches coven
I hate that room
vagrant crane
do you have summons
random tapir
nope, we've had this exact convo before 😛
i'm sure that would help though
for some builds this is literally the worst room in the first 3 biomes, other than the heroes fight
outer sonnet
Does anyone have some fun/good builds that use demeter chill
warm snow
chiron with Arctic blast
vagrant crane
it was supposed to be fun and good
warm snow
ah didn't read that part
random tapir
beams? 😛
random tapir
beams do use chill, fwiw
chiron is the obvious thing but maybe lucifer?
i'd guess to really utilize chill what you'd want to do (maybe) is take the boon that makes full chill cause an explosion, and then a weapon that stacks it as fast as possible
outer sonnet
Beams dont do chill unless you have the extra boon that makes it do it
random tapir
Okay
tight basin
Snow burst is a thing on cast weapons
fleet glacier
is zeus shield the only thing that can beat 64 heat if yes then why?
fleet glacier
why not choose a better damage option?
vagrant crane
give me an example
worn solar
beo is impossible at 64
fleet glacier
give me an example
chiron,hera,beo?
vagrant crane
chiron🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿
worn solar
hera and beo are literally unusable
vagrant crane
chiron is literally the 2nd worst damage aspect in the game
worn solar
no mirror means you start with one cast
worn solar
and damage control makes them even worse
warm snow
chiron is literally the 2nd worst damage aspect in the game
gilg and what?
vagrant crane
oh i suppose arthur probably has better damage
warm snow
higher damage, not better damage
vagrant crane
arthur can actually do a little bit of damage sometimes it's just also extremely inconvenient to do the stuff with
and the damage isnt good
it's just better than the massive pile of garbage that is chiron
lucid oar
I wrote a comment
EM4 hades with only 1 dash makes it pretty much impossible to dodge the combo attacks, so that means either relying on getting extra dashes from Hermes, or using the shield which has blocking. Out of the shields, Beowulf is ruled out due to routine inspection limiting the number of casts you have to 1. Out of the remaining 3, zeus has the most consistent DPS only requiring a few boons and some poms, as well as stripping damage control hearts and being able to deal the majority of damage while blocking.
tight basin
Angel did say zag shield is doable
vagrant crane
yea that was the first consideration
tight basin
So like that exists lmao
It technically needs less boons to work well but needs more free rooms prob for time? Idrk
worn solar
angle did 62 zag shield right?
warm snow
so what's stopping chaos
is +15 that impactful?
vagrant crane
yes
lucid oar
In tart its massive, and its still pretty big post cshot
It’s basically another level of calesthenics
warm snow
also how do you play zagshield
vagrant crane
spam left click
warm snow
just heartbreak cshot?
warm snow
shocker
worn solar
well angel still did 62 chaos so 3rd best aspect frfr
tight basin
Shield kinda good
vagrant crane
warm snow
clang clang clang
woven nexus
Shield. The only weapon that I dont have to run away when dealing with exploding carts
random tapir
is there something good about ares dash
random tapir
I ended up with ares dash on a hunting blades build, I figured at least some of the boons would overlap and improve it
it was kind of meh still, and it was actively annoying in a way. because it would distract me from tracking my actual casts.
vagrant crane
well it's gonna be worse there
it's primarily good on melee builds
nemesis
fists
because you are where your enemies are
random tapir
makes sense
vagrant crane
and also you have to pre dash it
random tapir
Seems like I'd typically prefer tidal dash though
vagrant crane
like on enemy spawn circles
well yea
tdash is just better
but if you get it blade dash is ok
also needs a few poms
random tapir
yeah, some things seem to come out more at the start of the dash, some of them, in other places
i feel like dio's dash also comes out at the start and I found it incredibly painful to use
vagrant crane
blade and nasty pop where you come out from
tdash pash are where you go
zap is weird
hdash doesnt have anything
random tapir
heh I don't know all this slang
vagrant crane
mistral dash is a projectile
random tapir
nasty is dio?
vagrant crane
yea
random tapir
yeah, I had that, was just trying to use it in a bow /artemis setup iirc to try to get that duo that raises crit chance
it was just annoying to stack on anything but bosses
south sonnet
to block with shield, do i just bull rush
round umbra
You hold the attack button
It'll strike and then begin to charge a bull rush. While charging the bull rush you block the direction you're facing.
south sonnet
gotta love that ive beaten hades heat 1 without knowing about that
4th kill, only started using defend during the fight
fleet glacier
is extra enemies worse then tight deadlines in terms of adding heat?
proper furnace
yes
worn solar
tight deadline is free at low heat if you know how to make decent builds
south sonnet
adding on to this, what are the easiest punishments(so far im just going all in on damage control)
worn solar
underworld customs is pretty free
worn solar
underworld customs is pretty free
well maybe get fated persuasion first
south sonnet
hoarding slash
warm snow
wave
tight basin
forced overtime is hard but it's very important to learn
i wouldn't say important
it's nice to learn at minimum
vagrant crane
adding on to this, what are the easiest punishments(so far im just going all in ...
dont take damage control
thats bad
woven nexus
Btw does 32 heat use EM3 or EM4?
worn solar
em3
woven nexus
Because I'm going EM2 for an easy heat 10 right now and thinking of going EM3 for an 11
worn solar
em4 really aint worth
woven nexus
Ok good. I'll rush to EM3 to get practice
lean hornet
EM4 is fun but not good for 32
worn solar
unless want to fight funny dad and his butterfly balls
wintry portal
ROD + jolted seems like its actually good ?
why is rod a meme again?
tight basin
it's not really a meme
well
it's a meme in the sense that it's good i guess
rod by itself is already good
warm snow
if you have a cast build, you want ot pick them up easier and rod reduces pickup radius
if you don't have a cast build why are you throwing them out
it's good damage for sure though
wintry portal
my situation btwhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/877038707583107092/1133601376371482706/image.png
warm snow
yeah i think rod + jolted will do you good
wintry portal
rod basicaly killed asterius and the other guy by itself
I was low so I was kinda just dodging, then asterious got to his second phase and I was like "Wait, what dmg is this??"
then theseus got to his second phase and I realized that most of my dmg was rod
tight basin
rod is just free damage lmao
wintry portal
also, this is a whatever run
tight basin
from what i've i heard it's pretty necessary on the slower aspects when speedrunning because it covers a lot of area
mainly chiron
maybe arthur but idrk
wintry portal
ooh, so rod is really good for me
dont tell jazz but ||I love chiron bow||
woven nexus
Rod is nice for anyone that didnt get those Hermes Legos
wintry portal
I saw some ppl saying that rod is just meme and not actually good alot of the time, thats the reason behind the question
thanks for the clarification folks 
tight basin
i mean like there's only 1 reason to not take rod tbh
woven nexus
Oh yeah I just realized that EM4 gives another goddamn health bar to an already dangerous boss.
tight basin
2 i guess
1 is if it's a cast build because it makes it harder to pick up casts
2 is if for some god forsaken reason you got hermes' legendary
i think my first main strategy to clear 33 heat em4 with cursed pact chaos was lightning rod cheese
woven nexus
Btw when do you start doing LC4 and healing out of just encounter revives?
Cause for only 4 heat, its a goddamn dangerous inconvenience
tight basin
didn't go so hot tho
tight basin
Btw when do you start doing LC4 and healing out of just encounter revives?
Caus...
like 25+ or something
woven nexus
Fountain rooms are dead. So many good survival boons are dead too
Yeah knew it
It has to be high enough
tight basin
it's mainly for like 32+ heat because no one really does 21-31 since it doesn't give you bounties
draining cutter and cursed slash too
quick recovery works fine
woven nexus
I did LC4 going for low heat back in normal because I misunderstood the heat 32 chart as a way to pick easier heat early on
LC4 handicaps you hard in low heat
tight basin
lmfao
it really does
if you're trying to get your first 4 heat, you're probably still learning the game to some extent lmao
and lc4 SD is not the way to do that
woven nexus
And this is coming from a guy who now plays Hell mode with a permanent LC1 and my lvl3 Cthonic Vit is pointless due to it
Its going to only be +2
tight basin
unfortunate but at a certain point in your skill, chthonic vitality isn't that big of a factor
it's pretty huge for early game stuff tho
woven nexus
Sounds like high heat/speedrun players
tight basin
well not really
woven nexus
I'm still panic dashing and using my 2 dashes way too early against Hades' swipes
But I'm learning to dash through him
tight basin
like if you just play the game more and get more familiar with it more, you'll get hit a lot less often in smaller rooms
woven nexus
Than away from him
tight basin
and chthonic vitality becomes less useful
tight basin
it do be like that
warm snow
i just wish greater reflex was swapped with vitality
woven nexus
Btw how was it like to experience Styx your first time?
It was very confusing to me back then
warm snow
Btw how was it like to experience Styx your first time?
poison
woven nexus
And they dont make it clear that the mandragora soup was for poison
Just raw game sense
woven nexus
i just wish greater reflex was swapped with vitality
You using pact that crosses out mirror skills?
warm snow
sometimes
it's just inconvenient
SD and extra dash are the two most impactful mirror buffs
tight basin
lmao ri3 with 2 dashes would make it a lot more doable for rama
woven nexus
Pacts that kill my boon choices or mirror skills are a no go for me
tight basin
no need to reset for dash
vagrant crane
if you have a cast build, you want ot pick them up easier and rod reduces pickup...
you're throwing them out for rod
rod is huge on arthur and chiron
warm snow
lc45
woven nexus
How so?
vagrant crane
you cant heal
tight basin
SD is your budget healing
warm snow
you can "heal" from lava
tight basin
lc4 also takes off 4 heat from the pact, which is a pretty sizable chunk
woven nexus
Wait lemme double check the mirror skills again
I'm misinterpreting
I thought it was that backstab one
tight basin
oh no
woven nexus
Yes. He used Chaos
vagrant crane
apsect
woven nexus
vagrant crane
Yes. He used Chaos
MY DISCIPLE
tight basin
isn't the chaos wr like 6:01 by bablo or something
woven nexus
Oh its speedrun. Aka 0 heat
tight basin
9
woven nexus
So forced deadline and....
tight basin
not that
vagrant crane
no
tight basin
forced overtime 2 and em2
vagrant crane
extreme measures 2
forced overtime 2
em2 makes lernie heads group up and be closer together
fo2 makes enemies spawn and chase faster
and also makes it so the god damned bombers keep jumping around over and over and making me miss my casts
woven nexus
FO sounds dangerous but I guess the lack of HL helps
tight basin
it's not as dangerous when you get used to it
vagrant crane
yea im just used to it
woven nexus
It takes getting used to
tight basin
you kinda just rewire your muscle memory so that fo2 is just normal
vagrant crane
everyone who speedruns gets it after a while
woven nexus
Yeah
tight basin
yeah
vagrant crane
Yeah
woven nexus
Btw FO2 a thing for 32?
vagrant crane
yea
tight basin
fo2 or hl5 cf2 basically
warm snow
????
woven nexus
LC2 interesting
tight basin
i'm gonna do it
warm snow
lmao
woven nexus
warm snow
actually ill do it later
tight basin
don't do it
what aspect do you want me to do
vagrant crane
i think i had 2 hp left
vagrant crane
what aspect do you want me to do
arthur
woven nexus
Btw whats the safest 32 for a hell mode save file?
tight basin
i was gonna say tone down hl5 tbh
tight basin
js1 cp1 making for longer fights kinda makes hl more rough
vagrant crane
sub10 32 arthur when
tight basin
not now
tight basin
(hl5 lc2 fo2 td2)
what else do i take
lean hornet
Authur build should have high attack speed from Hermes Over HD right
lean hornet
Em3 makes heroes a bit easier
vagrant crane
not even close
tight basin
not on arthur
vagrant crane
Em3 makes heroes a bit easier
wat
tight basin
not even close
proposal: can i do js3 instead of em3
vagrant crane
ok
woven nexus
Is HS something to avoid? I can imagine its a killer in Asphodel especially with EM2
vagrant crane
js3 td3
vagrant crane
Is HS something to avoid? I can imagine its a killer in Asphodel especially with...
yes
you dont take it till 40
vagrant crane
oh
vagrant crane
i took td2
tight basin
yeah
tight basin
i'll stick to td2
vagrant crane
idk
tight basin
gotta stick to my roots yaknow
js3 td2 jsut like my guide
(do as a say not as i do)
this shouldn't be as bad as the chaos one
at least it's not dc2 js3 em4
vagrant crane
LMAO
vagrant crane
yes
specifically it's not really aspho but dad
on hs dad pots do 150
aspho is just an annoyance
woven nexus
With LC4, why try to lower CF? Is it for the Charon shop and not the pool?
woven nexus
Wait Dad's casts are traps?
tight basin
idk
woven nexus
Damn
vagrant crane
(on lc2 do i still take DDs idek)
yea
woven nexus
Oh the green ones in phase 2
The urns
Btw is using Hades' keepsake a good way to thin out the boon choice by removing any Calls from spawning?
The Greater Call aint bad either based on what i read
strange lark
no
woven nexus
Awww
strange lark
that can work but it screws your hermes
woven nexus
How so?
strange lark
adds two more boons to his pool
strange lark
yes
proven sierra
i know the supersoaker is old news but i had perhaps the most Everything Just Melts build i've ever had with it:
- Lucifer aspect on rail, with the "it fires/ramps up faster" hammer + hermes attack faster boon
- Poseidon Legendary, so each hit pushes the enemy twice
- Sea Storm, so each hit with the rail causes them to get struck with lightning TWICE. plus i had a 47% chance of lightning striking twice. so every time i'd empty the rail's 20 shots, approximately 55 lightning bolts would strike
- plus the Zeus legendary so that every time lightning strikes, a splitting bolt fires. wow!
tight basin
Does sea storm and second wave actually trigger 2 bolts
I thought the internal cooldown would shaft it
vagrant crane
per source
woven nexus
I love Pos Lego. I call it the pinball build
Even better if its charged shot flood flare to recreate the pinball lever
For any cast build, would you aim for Art Lego? Pressure point as req aint bad for cast builds
worn solar
For any cast build, would you aim for Art Lego? Pressure point as req aint bad f...
well you need two arty secondaries so actually getting it is kinda bouldy
woven nexus
Really? I remember the Lego being light
Pressure Point needs no req
Oh i didnt read
It needs 2 of the three
worn solar
yeah better to just go for hunters mark
woven nexus
So Art Lego really is only natural to those going for Hunting Blades
woven nexus
What does mark do again?
worn solar
after you crit something a random enemy gets 30%+ higher chance to be crit
woven nexus
Can an enemy that survived the crit mark itself?
woven nexus
Got it
woven nexus
First time experienced EM3. That's quite the experience.
vagrant crane
how did u do em4 before em3
woven nexus
no i just know EM4 from vids
what gets me in EM3 is Asterius' slam now has an actual pulse
and he also now has a spin move
you really have to retreat back if you're a melee
woven nexus
melee gate is the correct word. Phase 1 Theseus is tough to damage as a melee
same for Asterius. Not enough windows now
jolly lance
i feel like im going backwards in skill
some of the context i guess
im playing first time but i reached true epilogue, i did all weapons 1-6 heat and 1-9 with shield, i did even 16 heat once
but now im struggling with heat 7s
round umbra
What aspect and luck also are going to be big factors
jolly lance
yeah i feel like i cant use other aspects efficiently, but i dont have them all unlocked yet
i have unlocked to max all weapons zagreus and secondary
in the process of maxing out third aspect of each weapon
round umbra
Using new things will take a varying amount of time to get used to
jolly lance
i heard chiron is supposedly overpowered from youtube but i cant get used to launching arrow and then special to make it all go into one enemy tbh
round umbra
I think if I had to choose, thirds might be my fav. But mostly due to Hera.
round umbra
i heard chiron is supposedly overpowered from youtube but i cant get used to lau...
Quite a few people here are going to strongly disagree with YouTube on that one
jolly lance
oh ok
round umbra
Chiron has relatively less impressive heat and speed world records.
It can be fun and nice to use, but if it doesn't vibe with you I extra wouldn't worry about it.
jolly lance
well im not interested in getting any world record, i will be satisfied with maxing everything except resource director badges and clearing heat 32
round umbra
Yeye, just trying to provide something close to an objective way to say how "overpowered" an aspect is
jolly lance
i cant believe i did hades EM4 on heat 8 at the same time (barely), was first time going heat 8 and EM4 too
round umbra
EM4 is minimum 10 heat
jolly lance
im no speedrunner but honestly i have no idea how people do max time limit, sometimes i died with even 9 minutes when using bow or rail
vagrant crane
i heard chiron is supposedly overpowered from youtube but i cant get used to lau...
it’s not
2nd worst in the game
dapper harness
what's the worst
vagrant crane
gilgamesh
vagrant crane
im no speedrunner but honestly i have no idea how people do max time limit, some...
what build
what pacts are you using
jolly lance
well build varies as i use different weapons, its just overall i feel like im going backwards in skill
vagrant crane
the simplest pacts to take are gonna be extreme measures 2, benefits package 2, middle management, underworld customs, and tight deadline 2
jolly lance
as for pacts for heat 7
vagrant crane
tight deadline 3 once you get the hang of it
jolly lance
lol no
vagrant crane
well like if you’re taking a percent attack on rail then there’s a lot of room for improvement on your time
jolly lance
im not using tight deadline at all if i have bow or rail, first deadline if i use anything else
vagrant crane
rail is one of the fastest base weapons in the game
and bow is also very fast if you get good hammers
it all depends on your build
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16_JXPaAt8fegie6Ss2x5tVeaR-FzoFlIgp0etd3yLHI/edit?usp=sharing this is a 32 heat guide but all of the builds here apply to anyheat as well
jolly lance
random tapir
2nd worst in the game
for speedrunning?
narrow pike
Pretty useful guide, thanks for linking. If it's not already in the pins, maybe it should be
tight basin
It's pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies already
There's a different guide pinned here that has more aspects and builds
narrow pike
Nice to know, thanks
jolly lance
I tried to learn charon patterns but he hits like a train. There is no use. I think the best strategy would be to go berserk on him. I yhink o need 6 more loyalty cards to fill codex entry. After that I'm never fighting him again
worn solar
helps to use zeus or beo and only fight him in elysium
jolly lance
Dont havr beo unlockrd yet
Yeah i only try to check his middle shop in elysium
Wiki says he has 22 percent chance to spaen bag which i dont understand why they made it so
IMO they should either nerf him or give better reward for defeating him
worn solar
at least you can choose whether to fight him unlike tiny vermin
worn solar
yeah that guys a pain too
jolly lance
the arena is so small, he has so much shield and alone he wouldnt be a problem but traps and summons
im gonna do a run heat 7 with achilles spear now
wish me luck
south sonnet
just a very simple question about zeus:
is a zeus dash build with splitting bolt, dash lightning, and greatest reflex viable?