see
#h1-builds-and-combat
plain river
soft kiln
what is this run
lucid oar
aphro may be better at epic rarity with no external damage
soft kiln
does anyone want this seed because it's wild
lucid oar
once you get a chaos or two, arty shoots ahead
plain river
Since you already have lots of external damage, having more crit means more more damage compared to having more additive being more damage
lucid oar
now get zeus call smoldering epic rd dashes splash dash razor shoals ichor stacking double strike splitting bolt 🙂
totally feasible
plain river
now get zeus call smoldering epic rd dashes splash dash razor shoals ichor stack...
And sea storm
it’s that easy
lucid oar
rfee
soft kiln
arty is offering common attack and dash and epic pressure points
soft kiln
k i thought it just didn't matter but i was curious
plain river
It’s the crit chance that does
plain river
Poms and rarity on anything artemis other then maybe pressure points doesn’t matter
plain river
hunter dash rarity pog
Oh true
plain river
Poms and rarity on anything artemis other then maybe pressure points doesn’t mat...
And maybe artemis call
soft kiln
well natural zeus
strange lark
bruh
soft kiln
so i just get to force pos in aspho
strange lark
why poseidon
strange lark
at this point poseidon doesnt really matter
plain river
Yeah
soft kiln
so is it worth forcing anybody in aspho or just go plume
plain river
Splash dash is irrelevant when you have mega dash strike from hunter dash and dedge
strange lark
so is it worth forcing anybody in aspho or just go plume
id probably force artemis
strange lark
that or dash
soft kiln
even though i already have artemis?
strange lark
yeah
plain river
they already have artemis dash I think
plain river
Oh
strange lark
yeah id force artemis for easier dash or hr
plain river
I thought you said you did whoops
Ah did I perhaps confuse a chaos dash strike damage with artemis dash?
strange lark
probably
soft kiln
how do we feel about ares call. i kinda got forced him
plain river
This I think
strange lark
how do we feel about ares call. i kinda got forced him
take it and then sell it
wait what are your other options
plain river
how do we feel about ares call. i kinda got forced him
Take and sell unless something else has better rarity for selling
soft kiln
rare dash rare call epic battle rage
strange lark
battle rage
plain river
battle rage kinda nice
strange lark
and then maybe sell it idk
plain river
Take it and use it then sell it
lavish trail
is beowulf good with charged shot?
soft kiln
i have zeus cast. i could take aid so i can find smair?
strange lark
the best hammer for beo
plain river
is beowulf good with charged shot?
Yes
lavish trail
oh neat
plain river
That’s the one that makes it shoot a thing instead of bullrush yes?
strange lark
i have zeus cast. i could take aid so i can find smair?
meh probably not
soft kiln
charged shot is insane with beo you just flare at range
plain river
i have zeus cast. i could take aid so i can find smair?
Ares aid kinda not good enough to warrant bringing another aphrodite duo into the available options
So no
soft kiln
oh i thought i actually wanted smair
plain river
Smair is mainly good on aids like zeus or aphrodite
plain river
Heart rend is more important then smair
plain river
Ares aid kinda not good enough to warrant bringing another aphrodite duo into th...
Ares call isn’t good enough to warrant bringing smair into your available options when you don’t yet have heart rend
soft kiln
what i was kind of getting at was take aid so that i can find smair if i natural into another zeus boon and just sell aid as soon as i can anyway
strange lark
yeah ik but it might not be worth it
plain river
smair with no aid is useless and there aren’t any guarantees you’ll find zeus call
tight basin
What gods are you supposed to look for after getting mirage for beo lmao I generally just stop taking any boons at all
I only fill for family favorites but that's it
lavish trail
personally im trying to get extra casts from artemis and the return thing from hermes
strange lark
thats kinda it
lavish trail
and it's going HORRIBLY
plain river
Zeus for sea storm?
tight basin
Demeter for snow burst I guess but what's Athena for
tight basin
Ah I see
strange lark
and it's going HORRIBLY
yeah you dont really aim for those on beo
looking for 2 legendary boons is not gonna go well
plain river
Zeus for sea storm?
If using poseidon cast
lavish trail
yeah i tried to roll for fully loaded and greater recall and it's not going hot
I mean, I'm not even finding the prereqs lol
plain river
looking for 2 legendary boons is not gonna go well
Everyone knows fully loaded never shows up on cast builds
tight basin
You don't need the recall from Hermes if you nuke them anyways and the wave ends lol
lavish trail
I've had decent success hunting legendarys in the past tho
strange lark
greater recall isnt that good anyway tbh
maybe if you are new to beo and arent good at managing your casts
but rd is way better
lavish trail
what is rd?
strange lark
rush delivery
lavish trail
is there a rule that you have to use as many abbreviations as possible in this game or what
strange lark
yes
lavish trail
I don't even know the names of half the boons and I have like 200 hours lmao
I just know them by "the boon that does this one thing"
plain river
typing takes too long
tight basin
You learn them by being in this server long enough lol
plain river
abreviashons useful so can type less
lavish trail
that is entirely reasonable
plain river
abreviashons useful so can type less
Why use lot word when little word do trick
tight basin
You'll learn eventually
lavish trail
or die trying
strange lark
theres also ad od ed ud cd ld nd td bd
plain river
btd6
strange lark
yes
strange lark
Qd wd yd I'd cd xd zd vd 1d 2d 3d 4d 5d 6d 7d 8d 9d
Oh phone auto correct
Meant id
Not I'd
soft kiln
i had to step away sorry but your reasoning is sound ok
so did hunter dash rarity matter
cause i could just take common hunter's mark
plain river
Having more rarity on hunter dash is nice
soft kiln
ok i can wait for another and just take mark
soft kiln
they were both common
plain river
yeah I guess hunters mark was a good choice
Common hunter dash is still a good option because less cores = better duo chance
random relic
What gods are you supposed to look for after getting mirage for beo lmao I gener...
dem and athena are really good
athena for ddash and demeter for rav will/snow burst
dr can be ok from athena/arty as well but you need to take somthing else in addition to dash
random relic
Sd, dd and rd
dont forget about the two hermes boons: qr and qr
tight basin
Zeus flare poggers
plain river
no zeus flare
random relic
not just cast, you dont want to pick him up for anything
all of his boons are useless
plain river
Sea storm or scillinating feast?
random relic
sea storm bad on ff beo
plain river
no it doesnt proc from cast <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
What?!?
tight basin
Zeus really just does not work on beo at all lmfao
random relic
otherwise it might be ok but its near useless because of that
random relic
zeus call bad on beo too
strange lark
Rod beo bad
random relic
smair requires getting aphro, another bad god on beo
plain river
scillanting feast or however you spell it on highroll trippy flare?
tight basin
Zeus call bad when sigil exists
strange lark
Nah
random relic
nah
strange lark
Doesn't add that much damage
random relic
beo barely charges it
strange lark
Opens rod
dreamy prism
zeus call erasure
random relic
dad call is like 20x better
tight basin
Oh rod gaming Zeus is best god
random relic
and yeah it opens rod and sea storm
2 bad boons on beo
zeus is like so awful on beo
dreamy prism
:(
strange lark
Come back when sub5
plain river
Comeback when sub0
random relic
and yeah that
strange lark
And Arthur has like 1/100 of the damage
random relic
zeus is even worse than aphro on beo because at least aphro has a single unpommable and you can get sweet nectar after mirage
strange lark
How about sweet nectar before mirage
random relic
ew
wtf
anway yeah the athena and dem are really nice supporting gods on beo
dio is pretty cool as well
strange lark
Dio sucks
random relic
bc strong drink premium vintage etc
strange lark
I hate Dio even tho he gives you unpommables and damage
random relic
bruh\
dreamy prism
yeah
random relic
zeus is downgraded so much on beo its insane
dreamy prism
since optimal beo play is dashing wallop spam
random relic
literally so awful
dreamy prism
- r/hades
strange lark
Yeah Zeus worst god
All those subreddit tier lists putting Zeus at f tier were right
tight basin
As we all know cast aspects are completely terrible because casts are not good or useful in any circumstances
random relic
a cursory glance at the subreddit says that optimal beo play is trippy flare
strange lark
Valid honestly
random relic
yeah kinda sus
also wtf why boiling blood
everyone knows abyssal better on trippy beo come on
dreamy prism
wait youre kidding
nope
so much beo hate
most people learn to play shield by spamming dash strikes + wall slams so it carries into attempted beo use as well
fresh rover
ok i'm gonna use my titans blood on either aspect of achilles or aspect of hades, thoughts on these?
dreamy prism
ok i'm gonna use my titans blood on either aspect of achilles or aspect of hades...
achilles is far superior
plain river
Achilles
soft kiln
yay i finally got all my weapons to 13 heat and can use bow again
tell me about zag bow and why i shouldn't just do chiron
plain river
Zag bow is radical
Artemis attack, twin shot, flurry, any form of additive damage = win
heart rend is also nice
Not necessary
Chiron falls off at higher heats due to low multitarget damage
soft kiln
are you just doing dash strikes
plain river
Zag doesn’t have low multi target value
plain river
are you just doing dash strikes
Mostly yeah
soft kiln
what does zag bow do multitarget? or just the special can hit a lot
dreamy prism
you don't use special on zbow
plain river
You don’t use special
dreamy prism
I think one of the big misses in terms of balance is not having zbow give crit chance to special as well
that would allow it to be the charged volley aspect which otherwise doesn't really have one
plain river
You don’t use special
Unless charged volley I guess but that’s if there aren’t better attack hammers
soft kiln
so how is it any better at multitarget?
plain river
Chiron is really good single target damage
You don’t need single target damage on each individual enemy in each individual room
zag bow murders each enemy in each room faster and still has pretty good single target
plain river
Artemis attack, twin shot, flurry, any form of additive damage = win
Twin shot and triple shot kinda interchangable on zag bow I think it just changes what your second hammer will be iirc
Think it’s close quarters whatever if triple shot and perfect shot if twin shot
dreamy prism
so how is it any better at multitarget?
you wanna run away and line stuff up for big hits
plain river
or maybe that’s backwards
plain river
you wanna run away and line stuff up for big hits
“Run away” “Line stuff up” twin shot would like to disagree but whatever
random relic
yeah twin you want to be hitting multiple things with each shot
tender latch
most people learn to play shield by spamming dash strikes + wall slams so it car...
Isn't beo even more braindead
random relic
dont forget about the two hermes boons: qr and qr
and also ff can mean family favorite, fresh file, or flood flare
random relic
Isn't beo even more braindead
nah
tender latch
I tried it and it was stupid easy
random relic
you need good enemy grouping on beo
tender latch
That's fair
random relic
zag shield too but way easier on zag shield
and you dont need to know any breakpoints on zag shield
zag shield barely uses dash strikes
tight basin
you need good enemy grouping on beo
I mean for optimal play yeah but if you're playing as brain dead as possible then beo blasts a lot of stuff easily without grouping
random relic
also @dreamy prism we should prob move here lol
@dreamy prism a lot of it is about trying to optimize early game so you dont have to roll room rng later so much
dreamy prism
bet
random relic
anyway ywah gl
dreamy prism
thanks chief
magic coral
what shield aspect is your fav?
valid dagger
Beo
balmy echo
lucifer build?
dreamy prism
lucifer build?
zeus attack, big special especially artemis, triple bomb
balmy echo
zeus attack, big special especially artemis, triple bomb
what about ares special?
cz its waves...
dreamy prism
sadly nope that sucks
iron barn
is zeus attack ever good on anything other than rail and maybe fists
plain river
is zeus attack ever good on anything other than rail and maybe fists
If anything at all possibly zag sword but otherwise no
dreamy prism
is zeus attack ever good on anything other than rail and maybe fists
yeah other fast stuff
flurry jab for instance
plain river
I forgot flurry jab whoops
random relic
yeah its great with flurry jab
soft kiln
is +1 cast crystal or +33% cast damage better for aphro cast beo?
strange lark
extra cast usually
soft kiln
that makes sense because it gets all hte benefits from other cast damage
lavish trail
i put eternal chamber on my super soaker and man I was not prepared for how little damage this does
first time trying this, figured it wouldnt be great but worth it for the meme at least
and nope
strange lark
yeah it does no damage before sea storm
lucid oar
Ye
primal elm
Are any of Demeter's boons good? I've liked the Artemis duo boon on cast but I'm not sure if it's any better than another cast boon. I usually run Chiron bow and I've yet to finish the final boss
proper furnace
attack/special are nice at decent rarity, snow burst is good too same for uh how is the decay boon called
and yeah depends on weapon
random relic
attack/special are nice at decent rarity, snow burst is good too same for uh how...
killing freeze
speaking of is that pommable?
strange lark
no
valid dagger
No
lavish trail
no
random relic
nice ill keep that for ff then
strange lark
would be too strong 🗿
lavish trail
which legendarys, if any, even are pommable?
proper furnace
none are pommable
primal elm
Best call?
lavish trail
pair it with smoldering air and you have basically a stream of free damage
random relic
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779451865399368/981296972336095332/TTm...
lmao what
proper furnace
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779451865399368/981296972336095332/TTm...
what mod messed up with that 
proper furnace
amazing
plain river
Are any of Demeter's boons good? I've liked the Artemis duo boon on cast but I'm...
Not really aside from rare crop and ravenous will and snow burst(or whatever it’s called that causes the burst around you when you cast)
Although demeter does have 2nd highest percentage for strikes and flourishes so that’s something I guess
plain river
Although demeter does have 2nd highest percentage for strikes and flourishes so ...
Tied with athena
soft cargo
good builds for spear runs?
dreamy prism
good builds for spear runs?
guan yu, aphrodite special, charged skewer, divine dash
very safe
achilles has a lot of good builds too, it's the best aspect for hunting blades, crystal beams, and trippy shot
plain river
achilles has a lot of good builds too, it's the best aspect for hunting blades, ...
Or achilles with arte attack, aphrodite x, flurry jab
lavish trail
I just used Artemis cluster rockets for the first time and holy good lord dude
What an insane hammer combo
I'd never gotten that combo I think
random relic
clockets is insane yeah
hexed lagoon
Ah I see ur recovering from an addiction to it
wary adder
one time i got cluster rockets plus the one that makes your special into a straight rocket and whao
random relic
thats what clockets is
dreamy prism
one time I got hazard clockets
random relic
god i wish hazard clockets was a thing
can you imagine 1600 base damage special lol
with insane aoe
hexed lagoon
Cursed slash x world splitter x nemesis x hunter strike was my best combo I ever got
wary adder
thats what clockets is
ah
wary adder
Cursed slash x world splitter x nemesis x hunter strike was my best combo I ever...
hazard bomb + aspect of eris best combo
hexed lagoon
What dat
Eris is the one where if u absorb the special u do more damage
Is hazard bomb the 5 spread special?
random relic
no, its the one that damages you
hexed lagoon
Bc I had that combo b4 and didn't make it to theseus
random relic
hazard bomb on eris is alright, its a bit annoying though because you need to time your dash to get buff without being hurt
wary adder
i was joking
strange lark
Hazard eris is the only way to play eris
hexed lagoon
Risky business
Cursed slash based
Also I spoke to bouldy for the 1st time 2day and game him nectar
I believe in bouldy and bouldy believes in me
austere zephyr
is there a recommended heat guide? like what options to pick for each level
random relic
this is whats generally recommended
you can do higher ranks of tight deadline earlier if youre fast enough
wary adder
whats middle management
random relic
makes midbosses harder
proven osprey
🙏 Mr Hat 🙏
strange lark
🙏 Astaos 🙏
random relic
for example, bombers has 2 extra bombers in it and barge has different enemies
🙏 worbsetl5 🙏
hexed lagoon
?
strange lark
!
random relic
/
hexed lagoon
hexed lagoon
I BELIEVE IN BOULDY AND BOULDY BELIEVES IN ME
I HAVE THE POWER OF BOULDY AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
strange lark
But bouldy said that he believes in me 😟
wary adder
bouldy the believer
turbid needle
Bouldy Best Boi
magic coral
if any of you have any fun melee builds please give them to me (basically sword shield and fists lol)
i wanna try to beat higher and higher heat with them
tight basin
if any of you have any fun melee builds please give them to me (basically sword ...
aphro and artemis on atk/special for nemesis, flood flare beo with mirage shot, ME demeter
magic coral
ME?
tight basin
i think if you want to push heat past 32, those are probably gonna be the best
beo is gonna be good until you have to take damage control and the routine inspection level where you lose your extra casts but until then it should be pretty decent
tight basin
oh yeah you'll be fine lol
magic coral
I'm taking my time with it lol
tight basin
ME demeter is a bit high roll tho so if you want something more consistent you could use zeus atk, aphrodite special and get smair
tight basin
dionysus on the atk is good yeah, not sure about the demeter special
i think either artemis or aphrodite might be better for the special because their duos are pretty good
but at the same time they're also not great for fists lol
magic coral
I mostly use Demeter on cast/call
tight basin
ah
magic coral
I use her as a support
tight basin
i mean you should get something chunky on your special because that's a lot of extra damage
magic coral
Yeah i mostly go for Aphrodite or Artemis
Sometimes Ares coz he's really fun with Dionysus
tight basin
both of those aren't bad, but with dio atk im fairly certain it has the slowest dps but hangover makes it the safest
tight basin
Sometimes Ares coz he's really fun with Dionysus
ares doom is only useful for merciful end and nothing else tbh
magic coral
Really?
tight basin
i mean for fists at least
magic coral
I see
tight basin
for some other builds that have a low base damage like shield special or rama special it's good because it's a pretty large flat damage number
but at the same time the shield special isn't exactly their main source of damage it's really something you use to snipe something across the room
or just general spread damage in a large area
tight basin
lmao gn and np
plain river
I worded my question bad
strange lark
no i got it
nothing happens
but if you get the boon again it starts changing rarity again
plain river
If you sell a rare cropped boon and then get said boon back will anything happen
oh
Ok
Thanks
strange lark
🗿
plain river
Does special speed on zeus shield do anything?
plain river
Oh my
Purple rush delivery purple hyper sprint on my zeus shield shackle run
If only it was a zeus zeus run 
plain river
Zag spear hammers are exploding launcher and charged skewer right? But if you don’t see one or the other what are good other options?
random relic
Zag spear hammers are exploding launcher and charged skewer right? But if you do...
if youre doing a special build then yeah
i wouldnt use the special without exploding launcher though
even with cskewer
other good hammer is flurry jab
then just play like bad achilles with zeus attack
plain river
Explosive launcher > cskewer > flurry jab?
random relic
exploding launcher > flurry jab > cskewer
plain river
then just play like bad achilles with zeus attack
Shackle gaming 😎
random relic
if you already have exploding launcher though cskewer > flurry
plain river
Ok
random relic
Shackle gaming 😎
oh ew
plain river
I’m trying to get all 24 aspects done with shackle while either pushing my heat or at 20 heat
random relic
yeah forgot about that lol
random relic
nice
plain river
then just play like bad achilles with zeus attack
Why zeus attack on flurry over anything else?
random relic
jolted damage
plain river
🤔
random relic
its weird but its what achilles sweats say is good
and flurry zag spear is just bad achilles lol
random relic
yeah hades you do exploding launcher + cskewer i think
strange lark
Serrated point gang
random relic
it might (?) be better than zag spear when used for special, not sure
@strange lark do you know
strange lark
Yeah bigger number
strange lark
Actually no you want less damage
plain river
Isn’t hades thing only for attack damage?
random relic
no
strange lark
Special too
random relic
wait what
strange lark
Yeah
strange lark
That's why I used serrated edge for my hades 40
random relic
ngl serrated point seems fun for this
random relic
although theres the problem that you want both serrated and quick spin in tart
random relic
ew
im going to try this at 32 before going back to beo
serrated or quick spin start?
random relic
good point
strange lark
The spin without quick spin isn't that bad
random relic
aphro or arty attack
strange lark
Don't die due to your -30% iframes
random relic
i thought it was 25%
random relic
damn nice chaos
plain river
Nice dash strike
strange lark
Why zeus attack on flurry over anything else?
Arty attack is good too
With some chaos it's just budget achilles
random relic
oh yeah arty attack is also good
probably shouldnt have done sd for a casual 32 lol
lone jetty
Yeah Hades Spear, Serrated, Deadly Strike, done. Good build.
strange lark
Smg
strange lark
Yeah Hades Spear, Serrated, Deadly Strike, done. Good build.
Oh we were talking about zag spear hammers and this guy just gets all of them 🗿
strange lark
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/845087923779141682/1005674429029830778/...
Take it
random relic
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/845087923779141682/1005674429029830778/...
other option is addled strike 38%
plain river
Take it
random relic
i feel like i have to take it
strange lark
Take it
strange lark
How
random relic
gee i wonder
strange lark
What's your pact
random relic
it was aspho
strange lark
Oh
plain river
oh
strange lark
What did you die to
random relic
i will
sad because good chaos + hyper sprint
lol this pact is now really cursed
i wanted dds and cv so im now doing hl2 lc2 js1
strange lark
Wait what's cv
random relic
chthonic vitality
random relic
yo hydraulic might
random relic
id probably do -js +pl
strange lark
Yeah well no hellmode
lucid oar
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/661812833771847703/1005498615080427611/Hades_137.png this is the based-est pact
Try guess the catch
plain river
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/937175112325693460/u...
Level 8 arte boon 🤨
random relic
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/661812833771847703/1005498615080427611/...
cf2 🤮
lucid oar
I kept dying to fo2
random relic
fo1 🤮
random relic
I kept dying to fo2
bruh
strange lark
What else was I gonna pom? The call and jolted that have way better pom scaling than Artemis boons?!?! No! Of course not! Why would I do that!
lucid oar
Try guess the catch
!!!
strange lark
You didn't take of
strange lark
He sucks
lucid oar
Because it is my second ever kbm run
random relic
oh lmao
strange lark
Mirage only adds 30% damage not that good
strange lark
Bouldy way better
strange lark
Fountain room is the same thing but with less gold and timer is still running
random relic
yeah but also with healing
bruh what
chaos my guy
why cant you be this nice to me on beo
strange lark
But then you won't be able to pick up your casts for 14.75 seconds 😧
random relic
lmao
god serrated is so fun
its like flurry jab but even more dangerous
god i keep getting hit by everything
i am not gamer enough for this aspect
wtf triple jab doesnt work on dash strikes
this is a scam
this actually does pretty good single target damage its just that im getting hit all the time
strange lark
Git gud
plain river
Using zag shield, first hammer, first chamber, should I pick up explosive return, minotaur rush, dashing wallop, or give up
And try a different aspect
random relic
died to hades lol
tight basin
just left tartarus on a 32 heat run and already purged sure footing, already have mirage shot on beo with athena special. what keepsake do i take now?
and i've got a braid and ichor in the well
random relic
and i've got a braid and ichor in the well
take hourglass
tight basin
aight
random relic
might as well buy both
tight basin
true i'm basically done with boons at this point other than athena DDs
soft kiln
so demeter fists doesn't like poseidon all that much for tidal dash. is poseidon special ok maybe? started with epic lightning strikes
random relic
poseidon dash is fine i think actually
soft kiln
you don't think things get pushed away too much?
tight basin
i think if you're skilled enough with it tdash is probably fine but it's much easier to not have tdash because of the pushback
random relic
i feel like pos dash is kinda necessary for good damage on zap fists but if its causing you more trouble than its worth its probably... ok without it
soft kiln
reminds me i need to try a poseidon attack with sea storm build :p
so i already have epic hyper sprint. do i take common rush delivery or epic swift strike
still demeter fists
tight basin
reminds me i need to try a poseidon attack with sea storm build :p
that's just worse zap fists lmao
plain river
ruhs delivery
tight basin
also yeah rush delivery
tight basin
well like, earlier you thought that tdash wouldn't be good with fists because you're knocking them away right
that's the same idea with pos atk lmao
soft kiln
i guess that's fair but it was also a question because i've heard teh sentiment a bunch
plain river
super soaker really only works on like guan-yu and lucifer I think
soft kiln
like spin attack?
tight basin
yeah it's good against bosses i heard
because they dont really get knocked back out of range of the spin
they do get knocked back but it's very little
which is enough for sea storm
soft kiln
is rolling knuckle any good?
tight basin
what does that one do lol
oh it's not terrible i guess
what other options do you have
soft kiln
long knuckle or draining cutter
plain river
which aspect?
soft kiln
i'm still on demeter fists
plain river
if demeter take long knuckle or draining cutter both are infinitely better on it
tight basin
i would take long knuckle
if you're struggling in styx then maybe draining cutter to farm the rats
plain river
I would also take long knuckle
soft kiln
i'm not really sure i understand how rolling works
plain river
it weird
tight basin
your standard punch combo has like a standing dash strike basically
plain river
your standard punch combo has like a standing dash strike basically
yeah
random relic
yeah i dont think rolling knuckle is great since youre dash striking anyway
tight basin
regular attacks are like punches, the dash strike is a swipe
so your standard punch combo throws in a swipe in there basically
random relic
id do long knuckle
draining cutter gives a very meager amount of hp for the hassle it provides
plain river
long knuckle lets you get your demeter giga cutter from a safe distance
plain river
draining cutter gives a very meager amount of hp for the hassle it provides
still better then rolling knuckle
random relic
i guess
plain river
breaching rush, pulverising blow or charged flight on shackle zag shield? first hammer
random relic
pulv blow
plain river
is charged flight ever a good hammer choice? it looks nice but I figure it's incompatable with zeus and chaos
tight basin
yeah can't get it on those two
random relic
is charged flight ever a good hammer choice? it looks nice but I figure it's inc...
no
tight basin
but i dont think it's great for zag shield because you cant do anything else while it's charging or flying
random relic
it used to be a decent pick on beo before it was nerfed
tight basin
oh how'd it get nerfed
random relic
400% to 200%
tight basin
oh dang
tight basin
cursed
plain river
based castless beo
random relic
yeah the castspect part of it hadnt really gotten much attention lol
soft kiln
nemesis c1 cruel thrust, piercing wave, hoarding slash
also ugh
these are all bad because you mostly do dash strikes right?
maybe wave?
tight basin
i'd take cruel thrust or hoarding slash, those are just the least harmful
i haven't used wave recently so i'm not entirely sure if it screws up the actual attack but it's just too different from the standard sword
plain river
these are all bad because you mostly do dash strikes right?
hoarding slash applies to dash strikes
soft kiln
oh really?
i cannot decipher how this game works
sometimes attack only means standing attack and sometimes it means it also works with dash strikes
very confusing
plain river
it do be like that sometimes
actually not anytimes I can think of off the top of my head
but yeah
it do be like that sometimes
soft kiln
chaos boons that say attack don't effect dash strikes
plain river
uh
tight basin
it does
plain river
90% sure they do but maybe I'm dumb
plain river
they do
tight basin
atk from chaos boosts atk and dash strikes
it's really nice to see with atk based aspects
plain river
unless it fundementally changes how your regular attack works it should also affect your dash strike I think
random relic
nemesis c1 cruel thrust, piercing wave, hoarding slash
i think piercing wave is good
if it does apply to dash strikes which i think it does
plain river
piercing wave also applies to dash strikes iirc yeah
random relic
yeah so its the best choice there fs
random relic
chaos boons that say attack don't effect dash strikes
also yeah they do
plain river
bouldy gave me special damage on shackle zag spear, this is truly a blessed run
random relic
you believe in bouldy and bouldy believes in you
plain river
I believe in the bouldy that believes in me
damn
bouldy blessing stole all my rng
now I have extending jab, triple jab and quick spin as hammers
no explosive, no charged, no flurry
tight basin
just get an anvil and get explosive and charged ez
soft kiln
i think piercing wave is good
oh dang i took slash. although i guess it doesn't take m uch for slash to be better than wave?
plain river
just get an anvil and get explosive and charged ez
it's that easy yeah
soft kiln
i have no idea what gave me the idea that attack things don't effect dash strikes. if i come across it i'll bring it up
plain river
hoarding slash is negligible but at least it does something for your dash strikes
soft kiln
that's nice though, makes the game a lot more intuitive
soft kiln
hoarding slash is negligible but at least it does something for your dash strike...
why is it negligible? does it not scale with % bonuses?
soft kiln
so piercing wave does?
plain river
piercing wave also doesn't
neither hoarding slash or piercing wave scale with additive damage I believe
I think both can be affected by crits though
soft kiln
i'm looking at the wiki and on the dash strike row it says thrust: 30 damage. does that mean dash strike is considered a thrust or is that if you continue the standing combo after dashing?
soft kiln
what is that box saying
plain river
box?
it's saying that's what it looks like
I think
I know that dash strikes != a thrust
random relic
i'm looking at the wiki and on the dash strike row it says thrust: 30 damage. d...
it looks like a thrust but isnt counted as one for cruel thrust
soft kiln
is it 30 damage?
random relic
yes
soft kiln
so piercing wave does nothing?
plain river
if it did then cruel thrust would be so much of a better hammer
random relic
so piercing wave does nothing?
does it not work on dash strikes?
soft kiln
does your dash strike also shoot a beam?
plain river
yes
soft kiln
oh
plain river
this was already said
soft kiln
let me explain my thought process here:
-
i didn't know dash strike was 30 damage until looking at that table
-
i've had piercing wave before and didn't remember shooting anything when dash striking
-
the combination of those two points led me to believe they just meant it was a damage increase
so piercing wave ends up being the best of those 3 original options i had because the damage bonus doesn't scale well from hoarding slash and thrust just doesn't apply to dash strikes even though they look like thrusts
plain river
I'm not gonna lie I have no clue how any of that connect to each other
maybe it's just 3:30am in my timezone
soft kiln
if dash strike isn't 30 damage and it doesn't shoot a beam then piercing wave being good with it means it must apply the damage bonus
plain river
uh
I do not follow your logic at all here
mostly because the sentence doesn't click in my brain
if dash strike isn't 30 damage(it is) and it doesn't shoot a beam(it does) then piercing wave being good with it means it must apply the damage bonus(it doesn't mean it must apply the damage bonus)
soft kiln
basically i thought those first two points so i was trying to figure out how piercing wave is any good with it. because if you guys tell me it is i'll just believe it and try to work out why.
so i just assumed it increased damage because i didn't think it could shoot a beam
plain river
actually
soft kiln
like there are only so many ways it could be an improvement. if it wasn't the wave, then it had to be damage.
plain river
I'm second guessing myself on what you mean by damage bonus now
like the wave getting additive damage? piercing wave just being a base damage increase to the dash strike?
soft kiln
i assumed dash strike's base damage was lower than 30. therefore changing it to 30 is a bonus.
plain river
it was never changing anything to 30
soft kiln
so a standing attack is for 20 and then a wave pops out that is separate and does 30?
plain river
if you try to explain your thought process more I think my mind will snap in 2. I think we can focus on what it actually does instead
plain river
so a standing attack is for 20 and then a wave pops out that is separate and doe...
yes
soft kiln
i donno could just be my adhd. my brain doesn't necessarily make sense if you're neurotypical :p
plain river
“Neurotypical”
soft kiln
if you hit an enemy with the attack, will it also be hit with the wave?
soft kiln
so kind of great in tart and terrible everywhere else because the wave only scales with global damage bonuses
plain river
Well it’s good past tart as well I think
It’s nice extra damage
even without provoking extra boon effects or additive
plain river
i donno could just be my adhd. my brain doesn't necessarily make sense if you'r...
Just gonna assume people are neurotypical like that?
soft kiln
i was making an educated guess based on my reasoning not making any sense to you at all and ND brains being really good at stringing a lot of seemingly disparate thoughts together
plain river
obviously dependent on how much gold you spend
spending the obols on boons is more worth then keeping them for hoarding slash
or other things then boons
plain river
i was making an educated guess based on my reasoning not making any sense to you...
oh yeah totally
soft kiln
oh sure and i've never really saved them on purpose but i have had several runs where i ended up with a lot of extra money in styx and nothign to spend it on
plain river
it's just how you string things together is very different from how mine does so even without being neurotypical it can be hard to see how you get to your conclusions
plain river
i donno could just be my adhd. my brain doesn't necessarily make sense if you'r...
your brain doesn't necessarily make sense even if someone isn't neurotypical
soft kiln
i think my brain makes sense, but frequently i'm unable to communicate the string of thoughts clearly.
I have frequently come to conclusions here that were wrong because my facts were wrong that i was drawing them from. i don't know why i had the impression boons that affect attacks didn't affect dash strikes but it made a lot of things harder.
soft kiln
and while you're right that not understanding me doens't necessarily mean the other party is NT, NDs are in general way more likely to understand my leaps :p
plain river
I can't really see how the leaps lined up
soft kiln
i'll try one more time to make it make sense. just pretend you only understand the facts that i lay out here.
i was gonna do a whole thing but i think the base confusion i had was that i thought piercing wave changed the entire attack to a wave
like if you hit someone up close there isn't another instance of wave damage
so since i thought it just changed the attack, i thought it changed the actual attack value to 30. which is a 10 damage upgrade for standing attacks and nothing for dash strikes.
in addition, i didn't think dash strikes shot waves even if you missed.
so the only way left for it to interact with dash strikes was to be increasing the actual dash strikes damage
so all of that only makes sense if you don't know that the attack and waves are separate
does that make sense?
plain river
I can see it
soft kiln
phew
plain river
aside from however the original thought about how piercing wave works works came to be
but that isn't relevant
soft kiln
i just didn't read it right
no big explanation i just can't read
XD
that's also why i didn't understand why additive damage bonuses from boons didn't make the wave stronger
plain river
it also isn't affected by any attack boons you have
so zeus, ares, dionysus, and status effects aren't getting provoked by the wave
soft kiln
from a balance perspective that feels like a whole lot of measures to prevent it from being broken somehow
plain river
unless it's been so long since I last used piercing wave that everything I've said is wrong due to bad memory
soft kiln
it feels like overcorrecting when chiron gets stuff like relentless volley and concentrated voley
but i'm just someone who didn't make an absolutely amazing game so what do i know
plain river
sword has bad hammers overall
soft kiln
double edge feels like the only great one
plain river
that's really it
soft kiln
world splitter only changes standing attack damage right
soft kiln
if it makes dash strike base damage also 90 that would seem very good?
plain river
I really need to do a sword run where I just
grab up all the hammers I don't use
I think world splitter cancels dash strike
like flurry strike does
soft kiln
what do you mean
plain river
it means no more dash strike I believe but I can't remember
I'm not gonna call myself a sword hammer guru because I often don't pick up the ones I remember as being bad
valid dagger
That is not correct
plain river
good
valid dagger
World splitter is useless, Flurry Slash is actively harmful
soft kiln
World splitter is useless, Flurry Slash is actively harmful
can you explain those two statements? if i'm left to figure out why on my own i'm going to come in here tomorrow with all wrong information confusing poor @plain river about how i could be so woefully misinformed
plain river
iirc flurry slash does bad things to your dash strike
valid dagger
can you explain those two statements? if i'm left to figure out why on my own i'...
When you pick up Flurry Slash you can't do just a dash-strike, you will always end up with a standing strike afterwards, which is awful, with World Splitter that's not the case, if you dash-strike properly it basically doesn't exist, so it goes under the list of useless and harmless sword hammers
soft kiln
so flurry slash interacts with sword hte same way flurry jab interacts with spear
am i correct that flurry jab is actually good though?
valid dagger
Yes
That interaction with the Spear is also beneficial
Although if you play really high heat you can see how risky it is
plain river
Charged skewer is charge for double damage special right?
soft kiln
i know the feeling
plain river
except for when I wasn't
plain river
uh
soft kiln
i mean taking reflex makes it very hard to find and make use of rush delivery.
therefore the real tradeoff is that
plain river
you're still on sword right
soft kiln
yeah i've done a lot of talking and not a ton of playing this nemesis run
plain river
that sounds like my shackle zag spear run right now as well
leaving tart with 2 chaos flourishes 👀
and explosive launcher
soft kiln
that's pretty sick
valid dagger
Well, Dashes are great on Nemesis, because it lacks range so dashes add a lot of movement and maneuverability to it, they are also instant value unlike Hyper Sprint, which still requires you to find another Hermes boon, overall RD is considered better for bosses because you get the damage out quicker, and Dashes can be slightly better for rooms if you can pilot them well enough, rarity is also a big factor when comparing the two but this is the general idea of it
soft kiln
ok that tracks. i'l try it. i've been trying to be more methodical about my dashing and less...i donno spastic?
soft kiln
well then
valid dagger
ok that tracks. i'l try it. i've been trying to be more methodical about my da...
Yea Dashes arent as straight-forward as RD, but it's good to practice them, for speedrunners for example you end up with more options for what you'd consider good Hermes
So you get more runs going
soft kiln
wait we can post pics here?
soft kiln
oh you have to host it
soft kiln
Yea Dashes arent as straight-forward as RD, but it's good to practice them, for ...
yeah the first room with +3 dashes definitely felt pretty good. i do like opening up hermes too, i have had a lot of runs where some of his more unique effects were stuff i wanted but couldn't take advantage of because of rd
valid dagger
Unfortunately his other boons can't really compare to Dashes or RD on most weapons
But they're still fun to try, you dont need dashes or rd every run so its ok
plain river
epic hermes flourish on concentrated volley chiron is the only one I can think of
or dodge stacking with zag fists
soft kiln
i like exit wounds with quick reload
plain river
exit wounds kinda a trap
soft kiln
because of the damage bonus?
plain river
?
soft kiln
whoops i read quick reload
and thought you were talking about losing the damage bonus from having a lodged cast crystal
valid dagger
Exit Wounds is a trap because it's barely any damage
plain river
Exit Wounds is a trap because it's barely any damage
this
valid dagger
The main good thing about it is that it opens up the Legendary
Which is nice on Cast weapons
But not easy to get, really niche situation
Exit wounds can be arguably solid on Poseidon aspect
On other weapons I would never
The reasoning behind it is, firstly, there are better Artemis boons, and secondly, if your Casts aren't one shotting enemies then you're doing something wrong, and one shotting enemies means you get your stones back right away
When it comes to bossing, ideally a volley of casts should phase them
So when Exit wounds procs
They're invincible
plain river
somethings gone wrong somewhere if you're benefiting from exit wounds damage
I hve like roughly +400% additive damage on my explosive launcher right now
all I need is charged skewer
I got charged skewer
soft kiln
lol
plain river
do you full charge on charge skewer? or spam it?
valid dagger
It's more between the two
So you get a balance of dps uptime and actually good dps
Charge it atleast halfway
And dont be afraid to let go of it in tight situations
valid dagger
Full charging it is totally fine
Just not always doable
Especially if you're playing FO2
Sometimes you just have enemies in your face at inconvenient times
And you have to dash out the way
dense basin
Late to the party about sword hammers, but here's my two cents for first 3 aspects: Breaching Slash solid pick, Cruel Thrust is not harmful so safe pick in some cases, Cursed Slash avoid, Dash Nova strange to use, Double Edge S-tier boon, Double Nova cool but I tend to avoid it because I like to knock enemies, Flurry Slash I avoid, Hoarding Slash has potential but I'm not good at saving money 
Piercing Wave good cause it's always some additional dmg and it works with dash-strikes, Shadow Slash works with dash-strikes so it's good pick but hard to use, Super Nova cool, World Splitter is not bad as others claim (does nice bonks and when put in between dash-strikes it helps)
valid dagger
Late to the party about sword hammers, but here's my two cents for first 3 aspec...
Shadow Slash does not apply to dash strikes
cunning urchin
you don't think things get pushed away too much?
You'll have a difficult time landing Dash-Uppers, but you'll have the DPS from Tidal Dash to make up for it. Tempest Flourish tends to work out fine with getting all of the hits and is decent damage with decent pom and rarity scaling, you'll just rarely see it because there's no meta build that would particularly want it.
iron barn
is it intended that armored spreaders can burst like 60 damage and instantly strip your dd
strange lark
yes
soft kiln
The Elysium bow guys are the ones that do that to me
lavish trail
uh while we're here what's a good aspect of poseidon build?
I usually try to build around athena cast with exit wounds
valid dagger
Forget about the exit wounds part
lavish trail
and get extra casts from artemis if possible
valid dagger
And look for Lightning Phalanx or Snow burst instead
lavish trail
wait exit wounds isnt good?
valid dagger
It's alright
random relic
its alright
valid dagger
Not something ill prioritize like ever
lavish trail
If you pom it its a free extra 500 dmg a pop?
random relic
good vs bosses but not something id look for
valid dagger
It's not worth pomming
lavish trail
im prioritizing boss fights, I'm playing EM4
valid dagger
pom your cast then
valid dagger
yup
lavish trail
So I go athena cast and try to combo her with zeus?
and it I want extra casts i just farm chaos portals?
proper furnace
That or charon wells
lavish trail
Athena is a good cast for that, right? I like to use athena cast and special for my poseidon build