h1-discussion

[robust scaffold]

eris is really strong, u shld try it

[chrome yoke]

ok

[robust scaffold]

take zeus on attack and u should hv enough dmg

[chrome yoke]

Hi panda

[obsidian ledge]

bired

hello

[void vigil]

the way i played rail is just zeus attack and jolted, and i used zag rail for extra ammo

[chrome yoke]

a lot of people from the HK discord here

i used level 0 zag aspect

[robust scaffold]

oh wait panda is also from hk lol

[obsidian ledge]

[robust scaffold]

zag rail is just worse than eris imo

[chrome yoke]

yeah i just used it for master of arms

[robust scaffold]

mm

[void vigil]

i did not have eris maxed then so i didnt bother with it

[obsidian ledge]

imagine using Aspect of Zagreus for anything

[chrome yoke]

Aspect of charon for bow seems good

[obsidian ledge]

Chiron

and yes it's good

[chrome yoke]

Oh yeah

[raw herald]

A lot of zag aspects are better than some of the non-zag aspects for that weapon imo

[void vigil]

it is pretty good but i did most of my bounty clears with zagreus for the crits

[chrome yoke]

Zag spear
Achilles spear

[robust scaffold]

which ones are u referring to?

[obsidian ledge]

Aspect of Zagreus is never as interesting as the alternate aspects even if it might be better

[robust scaffold]

oh i misread u

u said some of them not all of them

[raw herald]

Shield is better than chaos, bow is better than Chiron (controversial I know)

[chrome yoke]

I did 2 more runs and still no achilles dialogue 😩

[robust scaffold]

yea its just boring

[robust scaffold]

oh i havent used chaos so i wouldnt know :p
and i feel like ud have to do math to figure out whether chiron or zag aspect is better

[chrome yoke]

What does punishing sweep even do

[robust scaffold]

is that hades spear

[chrome yoke]

Yes

[obsidian ledge]

for the shield I like to use Aspect of Zeus

[robust scaffold]

idk oops

[obsidian ledge]

I think it gives enemies a debuff where they take more damage

[raw herald]

Enemies that have been affected by punishing sweep take +150% bonus attack/special damage for a few seconds

[chrome yoke]

So achilles but worse

[raw herald]

Pretty much

[hard pawn]

Rm would u mind helpin me out for a sec in #h1-high-heat-strategies

[robust scaffold]

oof

[raw herald]

Sure

[chrome yoke]

i like zeus as it can theoretically damage an enemy forever as far as i know

[obsidian ledge]

I think it eventually comes back

[chrome yoke]

ah

[robust scaffold]

its really long iirc

enemies dont stay stationary for that long anyway

[chrome yoke]

hydra

[robust scaffold]

do u like zeus lol

[chrome yoke]

Kinda, havent had a full run with it

[robust scaffold]

ah the hydras just pop very fast lol

zeus dmg is insane

[chrome yoke]

Lernie go poof

[obsidian ledge]

is Aspect of Beowulf any good, I can't get into it because of the slower attack speed

[robust scaffold]

u can cast while charging up

[chrome yoke]

Dont know, because achilles is cyberbullying me

[robust scaffold]

its meant to be a cast aspect

[raw herald]

Yes, it's very powerful even though it's quite clunky

[chrome yoke]

man, sometimes achilles just doesnt even have dialogue while i am 112% eligible for the hidden aspects

[robust scaffold]

u could try ending ur runs fast, not sure if that helps u get dialogue faster

[chrome yoke]

Thats really boring though

[robust scaffold]

true

it took me a long time before i could unlock them too and i was using chiron all that time

[wise oasis]

misclicked and sold the boon I needed for a legendary

feelsbad

[robust scaffold]

oof

[chrome yoke]

Quit the room

It will reset

[wise oasis]

ah too late, its fine Ill just see where the run goes

only 6 heat, not like Ill lose without it

ty for the tip though

[brisk trail]

i don't think you can quit after doing anything in a room

[chrome yoke]

ahhhh

Ahhhhhhh makes sense

So thats why i couldnt quit in the charon room

[tepid plover]

Alt+f4

But you need to know how to recover your save

[high island]

You'll see plenty of Duo Boons and Legendary Boons as you keep playing.

[chrome yoke]

Whats the reward for every duo/legendary boon

Prophecy

[high island]

Dunno. I'd have to look it up just as you.

[hard pawn]

Every duo boon is 15

Ambrosia

[sand wraith]

Mmm the difference in dialouge of the romance options is astounding

[chrome yoke]

just had a really pog run

[tepid plover]

Pog

[chrome yoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826796295204372492/869200302690168862/unknown.png

gonna try a chiron run

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826796295204372492/869204022245093427/unknown.png

FINALLY

[mint coral]

nice

[robust scaffold]

congrats lol

[mint coral]

also hymn of zagreus finally started playing in my 2nd file lol
time to see zag reaction

[chrome yoke]

mine also started playing like 10-20 attempts ago

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826796295204372492/869205210743050270/unknown.png

my spin is basically blade rifts now

this is gonna be harsh..

30 health only

[robust scaffold]

it goes up to 50 at max rank

[chrome yoke]

well im not gonna invest all my blood into it

[robust scaffold]

if so its gonna be tough using it lol

[chrome yoke]

wow.. it feels really strong

IMO hidden aspects should give new bounties cuz theyre complete different playstyles

[shadow kernel]

High heat elysium isn’t fair

[chrome yoke]

i agree

even low heat elysium isnt fair

[thorn marsh]

u ever just get slapped with that no free room 3 minute elysium

[chrome yoke]

yep..

[thorn marsh]

like pls help i just want good pace 😦

[chrome yoke]

gonna do guan yu elysium now
Scared

luckily i have hunting blades and 4 cast stones

[brisk trail]

elysium can be really, really annoying
those damn butterfly things man

they were a nightmare when i was trying to get the 30% more damage with thanatos' butterfly achievement

[chrome yoke]

in styx with guan yu

only 103 health

a

[high island]

That's plenty.

[chrome yoke]

okay 32+ heat runner, if you say so

anyways, i got a 2sack

and 133 health now

2 dd's

hope hades doesnt destroy me

[high island]

What keepsake are you using?

[chrome yoke]

collar

[high island]

Hmm little rough. But you have Hunting Blades, DDs, Guan Yu's Special to hit from far. You can do it.

[chrome yoke]

nope

died on the first phase

[chrome yoke]

How much blood does unlocking and maxing every aspect cost

[brisk trail]

acorn is much better when you struggle w hades

[robust scaffold]

somewhere between 200-300 i think

[chrome yoke]

o

[robust scaffold]

u have to get bounties for every weapon and a little more to max all the aspects

[chrome yoke]

bounties for every weapon is 126

[robust scaffold]

oh wait its a lot lower then heh

[chrome yoke]

oh well ok

WAIT

You get 2 blood for every run

[robust scaffold]

yea

[chrome yoke]

so 252

[robust scaffold]

anyway i googled it

its 306 to upgrade them

u get 295 from bounties and fated list

[chrome yoke]

so 252 + some prophecies

[robust scaffold]

yea

[chrome yoke]

and buy some via broker

[robust scaffold]

yea

[chrome yoke]

how tf am i gonna do 20 heat rail

[robust scaffold]

dw u get better as u play more

[chrome yoke]

oki

[wise oasis]

yess got the arti dialogue to gift her ambrosia

[lavish gyro]

I think I’m addicted

I have spent 89.8 hours on this game

And it doesn’t feel like it

[chrome yoke]

''just one more game''
''HOW IS IT 3AM ALREADY''

[signal aspen]

theseus has 9k health non em, and asterius has 14k health

[dusky wedge]

My man, doing 32heat already

I’ve done mine ages ago… during God Mode

[chrome yoke]

im not

[dusky wedge]

Haven’t been able to do it on normal yet

Oh ok

[void vigil]

I think they meant nyaanyaa is a 32+ heat runner

[chrome yoke]

yes

[dusky wedge]

Ohhh

My bad

Still though, 32heat, can’t do it yet

[signal aspen]

i did 32 heat first try 😎

[dusky wedge]

I tried it twice, got obliterated

I think even when I was still on God Mode 80% DR and doing 32heat, I almost died

[hard pawn]

😼 same

[signal aspen]

nice

[hard pawn]

Am finally home, time to get that hestia 50 bread

[high island]

I did 52 Heat first try.

[signal aspen]

nice

[hard pawn]

w what

[high island]

Yeah it was nice. I famous for one week until Haelian beat my WR and everyone forgot about me again.

With +400% Charged Flight Beowulf.

[raw herald]

I did 50 first try, but 45 took like 10 tries

A lot of it is RNG

[polar root]

wow

gamer

[raw herald]

Hestia bestia

[signal aspen]

yeah

[polar root]

of coruse

hestia bestia

ezpz

[signal aspen]

45 heat was pretty easy for me

and now im on attempt 500 for 50 heat

ive only made it to dad once

[polar root]

dude

people good at games

[brisk trail]

playing high heat in general def builds up skill too

[polar root]

it took me 3 tries to beat 16 heat

[raw herald]

Same here

Probably more

[brisk trail]

40 took me way longer than 50

[polar root]

now i use 15 heat as a normal run

[raw herald]

I sadly don't do normal runs anymore

[signal aspen]

yeah i dont do a ton of normal runs

[chrome wharf]

I think I got 32 heat....3rd try??

[unborn remnant]

How tf did yall figure out high heat

[signal aspen]

sometimes i will go on my normal save and play 32 heat

[unborn remnant]

this game is difficult

[chrome wharf]

also 3rd try on hell mode

[signal aspen]

i had a 200 win streak so i was pretty good at not dying

[polar root]

wow

[chrome wharf]

Eris rail on normal, Zeus shield on hell

Zeus makes 32 less risky I feel

can take Dmg Control 2 easy

[polar root]

yeah

[chrome wharf]

I just looked up guides in the high heat channel and faceplanted a few times until I got it lol

the first time I failed 32 heat (to a dying bomber's bomb) dad did his full laugh animation and talked about reviewing my performance xD

[high island]

I still do normal runs. Like, my last run was a low 13 Heat in my hell mode save to collect some bounties.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/869228457484251156/Hades_3976.png

See?

[signal aspen]

pretty casual run

[polar root]

hestia bestia all right

[high island]

Yeah.

[polar root]

no big deal perfect clear

[chrome wharf]

heartbreak hestia ❤️

[polar root]

ah yes

what did bouldy give you?

[high island]

That was Acorn. I played sloppy.

[polar root]

well

still perfect clear

[high island]

I have no idea what Bouldy gave me lol.

Not a mirror.

[polar root]

picture dad sigil instead of acorn

im trying benefits package, its tough

scurry

[high island]

A lot of trial and error and talking to the few other players who were pushing high heat at the time. But nowadays, it's a lot easier to figure out because new players can learn from all the things we already figured out and watch plenty of runs to see what to do.

Like when I did 41 Heat with Malphon, there wasn't one person who'd done that. But now there are so many 40+ clears with Malphon, you can easily check what pacts and builds worked for people and how they dealt with this or that enemy.

[robust scaffold]

500 attempts

[polar root]

wow

[robust scaffold]

i did a lot of resets for my 50 heat but 500 is a lot lol

[signal aspen]

yeah i know its crazy

[robust scaffold]

which aspect r u using bw

btw

[signal aspen]

the craziest part is that i dont even have 500 escape attempts on my hell mode save

[signal aspen]

zeus

[robust scaffold]

oh hm

whats the issue

[signal aspen]

im bad

[robust scaffold]

do u run out of time or u lose to mobs

[high island]

Might wanna move that to #h1-high-heat-strategies.

[robust scaffold]

hm should be fine since hes not responding :p

[signal aspen]

bruh

[high island]

Bruh.

[robust scaffold]

[sand wraith]

Wow i greatly underestimated the bull

[polar root]

I FORGOT HEIGHTENED SECURITY!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

150 DMG on a hades healy trap

[inner geyser]

I used to use heightened security a lot because I thought it would be easy enough to avoid the traps and therefore a good way to up the heat

I was very wrong

[signal aspen]

Yeah hs is not worth it for the 1 heat

[south lagoon]

it's a trap

[brisk trail]

does anyone know what exactly counts as a "distant" enemy for the sniper shot bow upgrade and orpheus' keepsake?

[wise oasis]

for the bow upgrade if I remember correctly itll show you while you charge the shot up, not sure for orpheus

[brisk trail]

oh hey it does, thank you! i imagine orpheus would be the same

[raw herald]

It's pretty far away, so far away that it's not usually the best keepsake for damage

Because with most weapons you will do way more damage being close

[brisk trail]

well i'm mostly using it to level it up for the achievement haha

[raw herald]

Fair enough

I'd say the best aspect to use it on is hestia

[hard pawn]

Do I do meme build

[stuck sentinel]

Why is maxed routine inspection only worth 8 heat? I feel like altogether it should be worth like 12 at least, or maybe even more

[stuck sentinel]

yes

[hard pawn]

ME achilles

On em4

[stuck sentinel]

might work with flurry actually

flurry doom dash activated

[brisk trail]

ok so, this might be a weird question, but did your call always have 5 bars instead of 4?

[hard pawn]

Pretty sure it depends on the call

[mint coral]

artemis call has 5 iirc

[chrome yoke]

yes]

[tender oyster]

If I take Athenas boon Sure Footing to resist damage from traps - does that include in Elysium when the minotaur sets the ground on fire with the gods help

if any of that makes sense lol

you know in that boss battle when they start channeling the gods strengths to make the floor lava

[inner geyser]

Pretty sure that’s just like a trail from when he charges. They both have 2 phases but only Theseus’s is help from the gods

[tender oyster]

i meant Theseus yes

does Sure Footing help reduce damage during that phase?

[inner geyser]

No it’s similar to when you pick a boon and the other god gets mad, it’s attacks directly from the god so it doesn’t count as traps

[covert zenith]

I got a victory quote saying "Robbed Thanatos" bc I shut him ouy from any kills when he popped up

Wow this game

[tender oyster]

Heres a question about the Pierced Butterfly keepsake - when i clear the level and trade in fro a different keepsake I lose the buff to my damage right?>

[signal aspen]

yeah

[tender oyster]

thats lame

I guess it would be OP if not

[covert zenith]

Same for Lambent Plume

[lime echo]

You just crushed my hopes and dreams. I had no idea 😭

But, do you get the damage back if you re-equip it?

[signal aspen]

if you take a keepsake off you cant re-equip it

[lime echo]

https://tenor.com/view/cry-weep-sob-sad-worried-gif-14502908

[signal aspen]

wait

yeah you cant re-equip it

my brain died for a second

[lime echo]

give me hope just to shatter it all over again

[signal aspen]

[shadow kernel]

When you have Poseidon cast on Beowulf, does it get buffed by boons which buff boons with knockaway effects?

Poseidon cast is a boon with a knockaway effect but when it’s on Beowulf it doesn’t actually knock away

[signal aspen]

it does

[shadow kernel]

Phew

[signal aspen]

poseidon cast on beowulf knocks enemies back but not by much

so seastorm doesnt proc on it

[shadow kernel]

Damn

But wave pounding does?

[signal aspen]

yeah

[shadow kernel]

Sweet

Thanks for the info

[signal aspen]

np

[raw herald]

If you have sea storm, Beowulf's attacks and bull rush are able to proc it

[shadow kernel]

But the cast won’t, right?

[raw herald]

Correct

[shadow kernel]

Ok

But surely running Poseidon attack is bad

Because it’ll push them away from the cast explosion

[signal aspen]

shield attacks will proc seastorm without poseidon attack

[shadow kernel]

What

OH

I see

[raw herald]

Artemis attack is the best attack on Beowulf by far

[shadow kernel]

That’s cool

[shadow kernel]

Finally bought all of the music stand music

[lost osprey]

okay

ive always wondered

why does the r o c k have a face

[shadow kernel]

Because bouldy

[lost osprey]

Bouldy

[shadow kernel]

Rated hades 1 star because no bouldy romance option

[sand wraith]

fair fair

[stoic flame]

truly a shame

[shadow kernel]

Huh

I’m listening to in the blood

And in the background you can hear that one bar which is in loads of pieces

The one when you die

The one when you fight dad

Etc

[lost osprey]

ALECTO.

STINKY

i help you all work together and this is the thanks i get?

im gonna go kill alecto now

bye

ok done

[shadow kernel]

The music in this game is so damn good

[stuck sentinel]

yes

[shadow kernel]

No matter how many times I play it it doesn’t get old

God of the dead is the best boss music I’ve ever heard

And the unseen ones

It gives me PTSD but it’s soooo good

[signal aspen]

unseen ones is epic

[lost osprey]

go search What if the Hades OST sounded like the Doom Eternal Soundtrack?

[shadow kernel]

I haven’t heard the doom eternal soundtrack but I hear it’s amazing

[lost osprey]

hades mixed with doom is so great

[sand wraith]

i recommend the transistor soundtrack if u haven't heard it yet, equally maginificent 👀

[chrome yoke]

In the blood

One of the best pieces of game music i have ever heard

[shadow kernel]

I’m going for eris speed runs to try and get sub 9 minutes but it really doesn’t want to give me rocket bomb for some reason

I wish I was playing on pc so I could seed and get a hammer and chaos gate at the start

[raw herald]

You don't need rocket bomb to go sub 9

You don't need any particular hammer to go sub 9 on Eris tbh

[shadow kernel]

No but it helps

[shadow kernel]

Man

I just don’t understand how people get such fast times

Maybe I’m just not getting good enough rng

Or maybe I just don’t know how to manipulate spawns well

Because I just lose so much time in big rooms

[reef zodiac]

What pacts are you using? I’d suggest at least FO1 and EM2, maybe even FO2. And don’t use Tight Deadline if you’re going on IGT

[raw herald]

@shadow kernel I would recommend joining the speedrunning discord, recording a run and submitting it for review

Also remember that runners don't post the runs that aren't fast

[reef zodiac]

That’s also a good point. Getting a good run always takes a lot of bad ones

[raw herald]

Definitely.

[shadow kernel]

I’m on switch I don’t think I can record runs ;-;

[shadow kernel]

Im using FO1 and EM2

With no tight deadline

[raw herald]

It is still possible if you use a capture card plugged into a laptop running OBS

[reef zodiac]

Ok then you’re in good shape there

[shadow kernel]

Capture cards are expensive

Ig I’ll just grind eris until I get perfect rng

With enough runs I’ll eventually get better at dealing with big rooms

[raw herald]

I got mine for £40 I think

What time are you aiming for, and when do you reset?

[shadow kernel]

Well at the moment I’m aiming for sub 9

But my overall goal is to get sub 8 by the end of the summer

[reef zodiac]

My cousin runs a lot of Eris. He’s not amazing by any means but his PB is 7:57. He’s improved a lot at the slower rooms over time

[shadow kernel]

I reset if I get nothing good on my first hammer

[raw herald]

For sub 9 I would recommend splits of roughly 2:25, 4:15, 7:00

But those are highly flexible

[shadow kernel]

If I get something decent like cluster bombs or delta chamber I keep going and reset if I don’t get many free rooms

[reef zodiac]

Also one thing he talks about a lot is the power of cluster-rocket

[raw herald]

eg on my PB i got a 2:22 Tartarus

[reef zodiac]

Isn’t delta chamber bad or am I misremembering?

[shadow kernel]

I can consistently get 2:30 Tartarus and on a good run I’ll get out of asphodel at 4:30-4:45

[raw herald]

Delta chamber is good

[reef zodiac]

Oh ok

[raw herald]

Elysium is the main decider in speedruns

[shadow kernel]

But elysium is where I lose the most time

[raw herald]

Delta chamber gives i-frames when you dash strike

[shadow kernel]

I did not know that

I just thought not having to reload helped a lot

[reef zodiac]

Wait what?? I knew it gave you 3 attacks on a dash strike instead of two but I did not know that

[reef zodiac]

That’s less of an issue when you just get good at reloading

[shadow kernel]

True

But reloading cuts your damage

[reef zodiac]

Not if you do it when you wouldn’t be attacking

[shadow kernel]

Eh I guess

[reef zodiac]

Any second of downtime is when you should be reloading

[shadow kernel]

I usually end up resetting when I get delta chamber anyway

I only keep it if I get lucky with free rooms

Rocket bomb is the only one where I’ll see it out until the very end

[reef zodiac]

Rocket bomb is less necessary than you seem to think it is

[shadow kernel]

Mmmm

Idk

[raw herald]

I would basically never reset on Eris until Elysium if I was shooting for sub 9

[shadow kernel]

You get your eris buff instantly

And if you get cluster rockets it’s ggez

[reef zodiac]

Yeah rocket bomb is insanely good but not needed

[shadow kernel]

You can instakill armoured elysium enemies which is big

[raw herald]

You may get a 5:00 Asphodel exit, but a <4:00 elysium + Styx is not unrealistic at all

[reef zodiac]

Not saying it’s not incredible. But sub 9 is totally doable without it so I wouldn’t suggest resetting a ton just for rocket bomb

[shadow kernel]

I guess

What other ones would you take

Cluster?

[raw herald]

Free rooms/enemies are more important than build

Delta, targetting, triple, cluster

My PB had cluster in chamber 1

[reef zodiac]

Especially if you have cluster bomb, don’t reset until you know you’re not getting rocket bomb (meaning you get something else are your second hammer

[shadow kernel]

I tend to always get frees in Tartarus and asphodel but never in elysium

Yeah with cluster bomb I always wait until my second hammer to reset

[reef zodiac]

Ok

[shadow kernel]

With less important ones like delta chamber i sometimes reset earlier if my run is slow

[raw herald]

Do you reset if you get barge?

[shadow kernel]

Not always

It depends

[reef zodiac]

Oh yeah don’t underestimate targeting system. A lot of people (including me a few months ago) sleep on that upgrade but it’s actually quite good

[shadow kernel]

I got rocket bomb and got barge and I decided to keep going

But usually I’ll reset

[raw herald]

Barge adds a solid 20 seconds to your run

[reef zodiac]

In speedruns you always buy light of ixion unless you’re in the final room right?

[shadow kernel]

Yep

Actually I don’t usually pay attention to whether it’s the final room

I basically never get light of ixion though

[raw herald]

In IGT I'd still buy it. You're going to add what, 3 seconds

[reef zodiac]

Well yeah but if you’re in the shop you might as well check to see if it’s the final room

[shadow kernel]

Is it worth spending rerolls on wells of Charon

[raw herald]

Depends if you have the full build

[shadow kernel]

Ok

Also is Artemis special or aphro special Better

Or doesn’t it matter

[raw herald]

Artemis is better, high rarity aphro is still good

My PB uses aphro

[reef zodiac]

What’s your PB?

[raw herald]

7:32

I've had a 6:50 pace run get 4-sacked as well

[reef zodiac]

Sadge

[shadow kernel]

Rip

[raw herald]

Yep

[shadow kernel]

My fastest is ironically with fists

I never use fists

[reef zodiac]

Sack RNG is probably the biggest problem with Hades imo

[raw herald]

1:48, 3:29, 5:07... 8:19

[shadow kernel]

I don’t even think I got particularly good rng

[shadow kernel]

Oh man

[reef zodiac]

My fastest is with Zag rail with spread fire lmao

[shadow kernel]

[reef zodiac]

It’s only 9:49 though

I’m not a speed runner for a reason lol

[raw herald]

It definitely used to be a lot better in early access

9:49 is still really solid, you should be proud of that

[shadow kernel]

What changed?

[raw herald]

It used to be the same speed as normal, do 50 damage and not reduce ammo

[shadow kernel]

Wow

[raw herald]

And for that reason, zag rail was one of the best aspects

[shadow kernel]

That’s uh

Kinda insane

[raw herald]

I don't know if it was the same speed as normal, but it was a lot faster than it is now. And it also had a bigger AOE

[reef zodiac]

Thank god it’s not anymore though because an aspect that relies on a single hammer for decent times is really not very fun

[raw herald]

Achilles

[reef zodiac]

True

[shadow kernel]

What other aspects are the fastest

I know eris and Achilles are the 2 fastest

[reef zodiac]

Poseidon is pretty quick

Beowulf I think

Demeter

[raw herald]

Achilles, Eris, Hera, Beowulf, Demeter, Poseidon/nemesis

[reef zodiac]

Oh yeah I forgot Hera

Hera is one of my favorite aspects in the game

[shadow kernel]

Same

It’s so fun

[reef zodiac]

Although I kinda only run crush shot

[shadow kernel]

I usually run dio cast

[reef zodiac]

I run dio cast on Beo

[shadow kernel]

Not optimal for speed

But optimal for hitting ridiculous numbers

[raw herald]

Dio beo got nerfed sadly

[reef zodiac]

Beo makes up for deo cast being slow, and Hera makes up for crush shot lacking range. It’s perfect

[reef zodiac]

Wait when?

[raw herald]

April

[reef zodiac]

Oh lame!

Why

[raw herald]

It was OP as heck

[reef zodiac]

I stopped playing in like March

How hard was it nerfed?

[shadow kernel]

I started playing in June lol

[raw herald]

I'll try and find the graph

[reef zodiac]

I played 330 hours from Jan to March this year, then switched to HK

[raw herald]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523766637757726722/840634756844617728/chart.png

[shadow kernel]

Is it still the best one?

[reef zodiac]

So it’s still good enough to run at around 32 heat?

[raw herald]

Passion has the fastest times right now

[raw herald]

Yes it's still viable, it just doesn't instaphase bosses as easily

[reef zodiac]

Nooooo that was the best part!

[raw herald]

People don't run it anymore because you need to reset for an extra cast in tartarus

As well as ideally getting mirage shot prerequisites

[reef zodiac]

I never speedrun beo

I always sucked really bad at fast Beowulf

Idk why but when I played Beo I went super slow

[shadow kernel]

I already suck at clearing out big rooms but it’s sooo much worse with beo

[raw herald]

It did take a few runs for me to get used to. I think my first Beowulf run where I attempted the speedrun build was around 20 minutes. But I'm now at 8:20 with it, just takes a bit of practice

[thorn marsh]

man

[reef zodiac]

But not too slow for tight deadline on mid heat. Just too slow for speedruns

[thorn marsh]

my 9:38 on beo felt so ass

it had such a long dad fight ;-;

[raw herald]

Beowulf and long dad fight do not compute lmao

[thorn marsh]

OK

IT WAS CSHOT AND I CANT AIM :C

i need to get it sub 8 though

[shadow kernel]

The worst feeling in the world is when you shoot your beo cast shot at an asphodel enemy just as they jump away

[raw herald]

Beowulf in Asphodel is pain

[thorn marsh]

beowulf is a cope until dad fight

[raw herald]

You just need to skip the whole biome

[thorn marsh]

then u go fast

but its just a cope

how did tounis get away with it

[shadow kernel]

Wait

In theory

Could you completely skip asphodel

If you have light of ixion

[thorn marsh]

no

[reef zodiac]

I think you need to do at least one real room

[thorn marsh]

there's gonna be atleast 1 real room

[shadow kernel]

Damn

[thorn marsh]

because

optimal skip

[reef zodiac]

My cousin has gotten that before in speedruns though

Its wild

[thorn marsh]

you'd skip midshop or something

yeah no

midshop

[reef zodiac]

Wait could that real room be Thanatos?

[thorn marsh]

no because the real room would likely be midboss

[reef zodiac]

Not that it would be optimal since you’d prefer him in Elysium

[thorn marsh]

because

asphodel is 10 chambers

u can get midshop fountain thanatos eurydice chaos

[shadow kernel]

I thought it was 6

[thorn marsh]

thats 5 skips

[reef zodiac]

You can have a lot more than one chaos can’t you?

[shadow kernel]

What if you get chaos in your than room

[thorn marsh]

i dont think u can come out of a chaos gate into another chaos gate

[reef zodiac]

No you can’t

[shadow kernel]

No but if you come out of a chaos gate into a than room and there’s a chaos gate in the than room

[thorn marsh]

wo Chaos Gates will not spawn within 8 chambers of each other.

nope

8 chambers

[shadow kernel]

Damn

I didn’t know that

What about light of ixion

Can you have multiple at once?

[thorn marsh]

it overrides it

but

it wouldnt last until the than

there will still be alteast 1 room because 5 skips and 5 rooms

[shadow kernel]

Let’s say hypothetically you bought light of ixion in a well of Charon which spawned before the Tartarus end shop and then you got another in the well of Charon inbetween Tartarus and asphodel

You have a chaos gate at the start

And another one queued up

You go through the first

Leave and spawn in than room

[thorn marsh]

that skips two rooms

[shadow kernel]

So there will be another chaos gate because you had 2 lights of ixion

[thorn marsh]

that 7 skips and 3 rooms

there will be a regular combat

[shadow kernel]

What?

[thorn marsh]

if aspho is 10 chambers

if we are including midshop and not counting endshop

im pretty sure thats 1 regular combat

[shadow kernel]

Damn

[thorn marsh]

chaos -> eury -> combat (buy ix here) -> midshop -> midboss -> use ix here

replae the combat with than and u get a 0 combat aspho

@shadow kernel

[shadow kernel]

Oh snap

Nice

[thorn marsh]

yeah

its incredibly unlikely

[shadow kernel]

I like those odds

[thorn marsh]

youll probably never see a complete aspho skip

[shadow kernel]

Sub 8 Beowulf run here I come!

[thorn marsh]

whats ur beo pb?

[shadow kernel]

Oh not good lol

I haven’t properly tried speedrunning with it because I get stuck in big rooms

So it’s only like 12 mins

[thorn marsh]

i need to practice my beo but hera is just funner imo LOL

[shadow kernel]

Also in ananke’s 5:52 run where does his damage come from I’m so confused

[thorn marsh]

his eris?

[shadow kernel]

Is it coming from his dash?

Yeah

[thorn marsh]

clockets/dash/jolted/+dashes

global damage

[shadow kernel]

So a lot of it is from dash?

[thorn marsh]

alot of it is from dash but alot of it is also coming from jolted clockets etc

[shadow kernel]

Also why is jolted so good? The damage seems pretty meh considering how much damage eris puts out

Unless there’s something I’m missing

[thorn marsh]

well 1. jolted is affected by eris global damage 2. FO2 means they are attacking a bunch and ur constantly applying jolted so its a very constant stream of damage

[shadow kernel]

Should I be using FO2?

I use FO1

For speed runs I mean

[thorn marsh]

depends

what weapon are u playing?

[shadow kernel]

Eris

[thorn marsh]

eris can definitely FO2

[raw herald]

Asphodel behins on ch17 and the boss is on 24

[thorn marsh]

bruh?

[thorn marsh]

did discord do that thing again

[raw herald]

So not 10 chambers long

[thorn marsh]

right

[raw herald]

No I'm reading old messages

[thorn marsh]

WIKI LIED TO ME >:C

[raw herald]

It is technically 10 chambers if you count the rooms where you change keepsakes and stuff

And the scenery room

[thorn marsh]

so wiki didnt lie to me

[raw herald]

Meg is ch14, keepsake room is 15, scenery room is 16, first combat is 17

[mossy peak]

Just finished hades for the first time

[raw herald]

Well done! First clears are always such a buzz

[thorn marsh]

nice nice

[shadow kernel]

So does that mean you can get frees for the entire biome?

With perfect rng

[shadow kernel]

Nice!

[raw herald]

I guess you could get 17 chaos, 18 euri, 19 than, 20 midshop, 21 miniboss, 22 chaos if you had 2 light of Ixions stacked in between tartarus and asphodel

[shadow kernel]

Pog

[craggy tundra]

||CHARON|| hired Skelly!?

[signal aspen]

Yes

[craggy tundra]

Dang.

I was not expecting that

[reef zodiac]

Who else?

[inner geyser]

I got 5 clears today pog

Also frick I accidentally clicked the spoiler tag I didn’t know that yet

Also wtf is it with people associating Hermès and Charon???

[robust scaffold]

they kinda work tgt dont they

[south lagoon]

ya hermes talks about working with charon all the time

"tell hermes hey for me" is even a line when zag leaves the shop

[inner geyser]

But like

Why would they be in a relationship, that’s just weird

Work associates I get

But come on

[quaint wind]

why would it be weird for them to be in a relationship?

[robust scaffold]

thats just shipping :p

[inner geyser]

I mean idk about their actual ages but by the looks of it Hermes is a teen and and Charon is an ancient skeleton

[robust scaffold]

yea true

[narrow hemlock]

they dont have ages 🤨

i question how you read hermes as a teen

even zag, who is the youngest character of the game's cast (as far as gods are concerned), is said to appear "like a young man in his early 20s" according to supergiant

[quaint wind]

i read hermes like mid20s looks wise

but yeah they're all hundred+ yrs old

[narrow hemlock]

appearance and behaviour wise all the gods read as adults to me. theres only relative ages anyway bc thats the only way you can determine time to beings that largely arent affected by time. i dont think theres anyone in the cast as a whole that gives me teen vibes, other than the frequent rebellious teen spirit comparison made for zag, but thats it

[south lagoon]

they r dating .. "professional associate" thou dost protest too much

[narrow hemlock]

its harmless fan headcanons i'm very specific in my interests but a popular ship not being my tastes is whatever, like, hope yall are having fun ✌️

[inner geyser]

Yea I find it strange but hey so do some people with zag x than so I just gotta think about the other side of the equation

I just had a thought. If Hades was co-op, what character would be player 2?

[thorn marsh]

Meg

probably a variety of choices

maybe even an olympian god

[inner geyser]

Idk but she wouldn’t fight her sisters

[plucky latch]

Achilles

[lime echo]

Completely fail at challenge... lost 56 health, got 15 charon...

[inner geyser]

That makes sense fs

[lime echo]

Zagreus: Nice!

[inner geyser]

Or it could be a new character

I mean, zag has to have a million siblings

[plucky latch]

Also, about the age thing. I dunno how the in-game mechanics works for living gods or whatever, but when someone dies, they get to pick any age they want to like like.

So, if a god DID look like a kid, it probably still wouldnt mean anything.

[south lagoon]

it'd be weird

[plucky latch]

Maybe for our culture. Not for those times, I don't think.

But aye, they have a gun in the game

[south lagoon]

well i mean, for a game that exists within our times and is palatable for modern tastes, it wld be weird if it was in the game imo

[plucky latch]

Nah, Hades kept it in his pants for the most part. At most, Zag may have 5 siblings. He, at the very least, has one.

[south lagoon]

he at least has plenty of long lost cousins

[plucky latch]

[robust scaffold]

shes a 9000 year old god she just looks like a child

[plucky latch]

Loki if he went to the Underworld

[inner geyser]

I got an idea for what co op could be like. For everything you would have the same pool of choices, but when zag/player 2 selects one choice its locked so the other person has to choose something else. Same with the weapons and keepstakes. Could make for cool strategic thinking and synergies

[plucky latch]

Yeah. There are a lot of neat little ways to make a coop work. Hopefully we get a mod for it

[inner geyser]

Is there even compatability for mods in hades?

[plucky latch]

What do you mean?

There are mods you can use, if that's what you mean.

[inner geyser]

Yea some games don’t let people make mods on steam

I didn’t know if hades was one of those cause I’ve never heard of a hades mod

[plucky latch]

Oh no there is no steam support.

[inner geyser]

Ah so you’d have to use 3rd party software to modify your game

[plucky latch]

Yeah. It's how most modding is done.

[inner geyser]

Ah I mainly just know popular modded games like minecraft and Skyrim which have really easy ways to mod the game

I looked it up all the mods I could find are simple and not really game changing stuff

Not like hollow knight where you just give Zag an AK-47 lmao

[plucky latch]

I gotcha. Now, I'm not sure if modded Hades runs counts toward your steam achievements. Some games have things set up to catch modding and punish modders.

[inner geyser]

Yeah some people have tried to add Titan blood and stuff with mods but it forcefully crashed the game instead because it detected that

[plucky latch]

Oh yeah, the mods aren't crazy at all. Just basically used to alter the accessibility of the game. Now there is one mod that I saw that seemed to do a complete stat overhaul. Maybe even gives different boons

[inner geyser]

Nothing like brand new mechanics though. I guess with the fact that there’s no support for mods it’s really hard to do

[plucky latch]

I dunno. I didnt read into it. The game plays differently at certain points, so I'm sure that mod changes a few mechanics.

But I just wanted a mod that changed Zagreus into someone else. Sadly, most of them are just mods to make the game easier.

[inner geyser]

Yeah

Idk why people do that, just use god mode and 0 heat

[plucky latch]

Maybe the game makes fun of you

[inner geyser]

For using god mode?

[plucky latch]

Yeah. Hades laughs when you give up on a run, and you get made fun of sonetimes for dying

Makes sense that they'd make fun of someone for using God Mode lol

[granite ether]

that happens irrespective of god mode though

[inner geyser]

Yeah

I actually got my very first clear using god mode (it got up to 19%) then I turned it off and cleared the very next run, lol

[granite ether]

god mode is very literally a god send for people, it allows them to enjoy the game without having to worry so much

God modes DR starts at 20% btw ^_^

[inner geyser]

Yea I meant 19% above the base lol

Forgot the +

So 39

[granite ether]

ahh gotcha :3

[inner geyser]

I can clear runs pretty consistently without it now but it was really useful for when I was still learning the game

[granite ether]

I'm very happy it exists even if I've never used it myself

having greater accessibility in video games is great, especially when you don't feel punished for using the option too

[plucky latch]

I need to try out the Blind Accessibility Mod lmao

Wonder how that works.

[inner geyser]

Hades is not a game for the blind lol

[robust scaffold]

[inner geyser]

I can only think of rhythm games for stuff that could possibly work

[narrow hemlock]

even if supergiant did officially support mods (which they dont for the reason outlined here <#ask-supergiant message>), modding the game to add any significant kind of changes like new mechanics is incredibly complicated

[plucky latch]

Oh, it might be like the Blind Accessibility settings in The Last Of Us 2

Basically would make you unkillable.

[dreamy cipher]

could someone explain the fated things in the mirror?

i get they reroll stuff but do i get a choice to reroll it of does it reroll before i even see the orginal?

[south lagoon]

you will see the doors as normal, or the boon selection as normal, depending on if it's authority or persuasion - with the added ability to reroll

once you reroll you can't go back to the old door/boons. but you do see the full first selection, you're not rolling blind

[cedar nexus]

But it's +2% per lost run

[inner geyser]

Oh ig i remembered wrong

Also I’m 90% sure it doesn’t change anything but I tried for a while without god mode

[reef zodiac]

What damage in this game is multiplicative and what damage is additive? Example: I have shadow presence and a +100% extra damage boon from any god (I’ll say Aphrodite if it matters). Would a 100 damage attack end up dealing 300 damage or 250 damage (on a backstab). If I added +100% chaos damage to that would it be 600 damage, 500 damage, 450 damage, or 350 damage?

[robust scaffold]

i think all dmg is additive in this game

crit is multiplicative since u know

[thorn marsh]

not all dmg is additive

[robust scaffold]

which ones arent

[thorn marsh]

mirage shot on beo or mirage shot in general

double strike

not sure about mirage shot in general

but

yeah

[robust scaffold]

well mirage shot is literally another shot so i guess

[thorn marsh]

i know those two because they are multiplying the amount of times thing happen so ye

[robust scaffold]

is double strike the sword one

yea multiplicative stuff are very strong

[thorn marsh]

wat?

double strike is a t2 zeus boon

[robust scaffold]

oh lol

[thorn marsh]

ur thinking about dedge

which i have no idea

[robust scaffold]

yea edge

thats multiplicative too

it should be, along with serrated tip

triple shot and twin shot

[reef zodiac]

I heard somewhere that Chaos was multiplicative but I guess that’s not true then?

[thorn marsh]

dont think so

think about how much more OP cast weps would be if cast damage was multiplicative

it'd be insane lul

[reef zodiac]

I can’t because I have no idea how damage is counted behind the scenes

So nothing is multiplicative unless is literally creates a full new attack?

[thorn marsh]

i dont know

ask the gull of the c

[reef zodiac]

Who?

[thorn marsh]

cgull

[reef zodiac]

I’m new, who is that?

[thorn marsh]

uh someone who straight up lives in the gamecode of hades

knows basically everything

[reef zodiac]

Got it

[robust scaffold]

it should be additive

[vapid narwhal]

damage is almost certainly additive

https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Calculation

[cedar nexus]

Hypnos:
Woah, you must've died out there again, huh

[stable glen]

What's a good hades spear build?

[thorn marsh]

ME

[stable glen]

Athena special or ares special?

[thorn marsh]

pretty sure its just ME botting

[reef zodiac]

Athena special ares attack

Athena dash

[thorn marsh]

so athena special ares attack

[reef zodiac]

But you take the dash after the special since it’s not a prerequisite

[stable glen]

Never tried hades spear

is it any good?

It seems kinda meh

[thorn marsh]

no not really imo

[reef zodiac]

No it’s bad

You can tell because the best build doesn’t even depend on the strengths of the aspect

If you want a fun Hades build though, go for a meme spin attack build

Aphro attack

[brisk trail]

its good I think

[reef zodiac]

Every spin hammer you find

[reef zodiac]

Good how? As in, not bottom 8? I think it’s definitely a bottom 8 aspect

[brisk trail]

in what context

[reef zodiac]

Idk I feel like mid heat is a good reference point

That’s where I play

[stable glen]

16 heat is my reference point

I play around there

[reef zodiac]

24-32 heat ish

[stable glen]

-16 is low heat, 16-32 is mid, 32+ as high is how I see it, but that's just perspective

[reef zodiac]

If you think Hades spear is good, what’s the best build for it?

[brisk trail]

well I think its just doing fine then

best in what context

[stable glen]

Best as in the defacto dream build

[reef zodiac]

Best as in consistent

[stable glen]

And not too hard to get

[reef zodiac]

Exactly

[stable glen]

I think my favorite aspect rn is chiron

it's so damn fun

[brisk trail]

I beat 40 with a pure arty build

its nice

[reef zodiac]

Pure Artemis on Hades? I don’t understand. You put Artemis on attack and prayed for spin attack crits? If you don’t get a crit, it doesn’t do enough damage to kill too many things

I don’t feel like that would be very good

[stable glen]

Spin attack crits?

is that a hammer?

[reef zodiac]

No

[stable glen]

Oh nvm

[brisk trail]

no its either: special build w exploding or attack build

[stable glen]

Im dumb

[brisk trail]

I only spin to apply the debuff??

[reef zodiac]

Oh I see. Hades is basically Zag spear, except Zag spear is terrible. If you want boons like charged skewer and exploding skewer, you use Hades

[brisk trail]

all spears play very similar imo

[stable glen]

Achilles plays very differently imo

[reef zodiac]

What? I use cast builds for Achilles and spam special with Guan Yu so I couldn’t disagree more

I use less than 50 total attacks per run with Achilles unless I get flurry jab

[thorn marsh]

u literally spam special on all spears

[brisk trail]

and they all have the same atk combo

[high island]

Charged Skewer isn't very good on Hades Aspect without Exploding Launcher.

[thorn marsh]

in terms of how often u use specials and attack combo its very much the same

[brisk trail]

if you can play one spear you can play the others

[stable glen]

true

[robust scaffold]

i thought achilles uses flurry jab, while guan yu uses dash attack + special spam

thats quite different

[thorn marsh]

its about the atk combo

[reef zodiac]

Same with sword. And bow actually. And shield. Does that mean you think they play very similarly?

[thorn marsh]

dash attack dash attack special

[brisk trail]

not rly

[thorn marsh]

all swords play similarly imo

[brisk trail]

chiron plays very differently than rama

beo is conpletly difffrom zeus

[high island]

Flurry Jab isn't something you get every run unless you reset for it.

[reef zodiac]

If you play Achilles and Guan Yu the same way, you’re doing something very wrong

[stable glen]

Speaking of rama... anyone got good special only builds?

[thorn marsh]

if we are talking about atk combos

its dash attack dash attack special

which is how u play literally every single spear

[reef zodiac]

Nah attack is way too good on Rama to not use it

[stable glen]

meme build

[thorn marsh]

uh try hangover/thunder flourish

[stable glen]

I saw someone do it on zeus

[reef zodiac]

Oh ok. Yeah Thunder Flourish or Hangover

[stable glen]

I usually run aphro attack

[thorn marsh]

thunder flourish jolted splitting dstrike

[stable glen]

Dionysus special

and the duo

[reef zodiac]

That duo is mid. The ares deo one is insane though

[brisk trail]

mid?

[high island]

[thorn marsh]

CoL is good

[brisk trail]

you mean mid tier?

[thorn marsh]

[stable glen]

Both are good, but I'm not going to force ares for it unless I get low tol in asphodel or earlier

[reef zodiac]

Yeah. I mean kinda? Like that was what I meant by it, but I don’t literally mean it’s a mid tier boon

I mean it’s mid in terms of duos to build around

[stable glen]

I think he meant CoN

[high island]

Low Tolerance is the best Duo Boon for Hangover damage.

[thorn marsh]

+3 stacks is absolutely insane

[reef zodiac]

Really? It’s better than Curse of Nausea

[brisk trail]

it is top

[stable glen]

I did the math, low tol helps damage more

It's close, but low tol is better

[reef zodiac]

Ok maybe I have no idea what I’m talking about then

[stable glen]

sure both are good

but I try to force low tol

[high island]

I mean, if you want to put it like that...

[stable glen]

if I get ares in tartarus on a rama build, i role for vengeance

[brisk trail]

you sure say a lot of unconventional things

[thorn marsh]

[reef zodiac]

I’m willing to accept it

[high island]

If I get Lord Ares in Tartarus, I'll take Curse of Pain.

[stable glen]

CoL is good too

[high island]

Curse of Longing doesn't really do anything on Rama.

[reef zodiac]

The way I saw it, Curse of Nausea is always 50% more damage (multiplicatively) while LT is sometimes like 70% more damage (multiplicatively) but only if you’re applying hangover fast enough which won’t always happen

[stable glen]

Decent on bosses

[stable glen]

It isn't 50% tho

[thorn marsh]

if ur building hangover ur likely applying it fast enough

[stable glen]

You go from 2 hangover applications per 1 second to 3 per 1.05

[high island]

It's too easy to reapply Doom immediately, anyway, so Curse of Longing ends up doing practically nothing for boss fights.

[reef zodiac]

Does 5 one hundredths of a second really matter that much to you?

[high island]

Curse of Nausea on Rama is better DPS in rooms, but Low Tolerance is better DPS in boss fights.

[stable glen]

I mathed wrong I thought it was a 30% increase forget I said anything

[reef zodiac]

Alright fair

[reef zodiac]

Yeah but the difference isn’t that huge in bossfights, is it? It’s pretty noticeable in rooms though

[high island]

But you're not taking Doom over Heartbreak Strike on Rama.

[reef zodiac]

That is true

[stable glen]

I mean assuming your hangover effect deals 10 damage, which is an epic drunken flourish with some poms, CoN will deal about 150 dps while low tol deals 160, the more hangover damage you deal the bigger the difference is

best case scenario is getting both

[reef zodiac]

For Rama I will agree that LT is better to go for, when I think about it more

[stable glen]

but low tol is probably the easier one to get and slightly stronger

[reef zodiac]

But for something like Chiron hangover, you want CoN don’t you?

[stable glen]

easier for a rama build

[thorn marsh]

chiron can apply 8 stacks of hangover instantly if its maxed

[stable glen]

I aim for both CoN and LT but LT comes 1st

I do a lot of chiron runs

[thorn marsh]

so LT is probably still better

[reef zodiac]

Yeah, but CoN is still better, isn’t it?

[high island]

Low Tolerance is always #1 priority in Chiron Hangover builds.

[reef zodiac]

I guess maybe not

[thorn marsh]

instant 8 stacks of hangover is kinda busted

[stable glen]

CoN is better in styx as a lot of your chiron special arrows may hit the wall

[cedar nexus]

percentage damage bonus combines but don't stacks, right?

[stable glen]

But everywhere else LT is better

[reef zodiac]

Alright. I guess I have a lot to learn lmao

I gotta be less confident in my opinions

[stable glen]

100% damage bonus plus 50% bonus = 150% bonus total

[cedar nexus]

._.

[reef zodiac]

I was just asking about this actually

[cedar nexus]

that's sad

[high island]

We were all wrong about lots of things in the game before.

[stable glen]

I thought bow was trash

[high island]

I have over 1k hours in the game and had high heat WRs and have some speedrun WRs still, and I still learn new things all the time.

[stable glen]

We all make mistakes

I love you coronacht

[cedar nexus]

i got shadow slash and rare roiling ambush on arthur

[high island]

And sometimes you gotta learn to watch your language, @reef zodiac. How could you.

We trusted you.

[shadow kernel]

Banned

[thorn marsh]

[stable glen]

Demeter meme build on chiron is actually pretty strong

[cedar nexus]

also cyclops jerky and epic ravenous will

[reef zodiac]

I’m not beating myself up about it, I just don’t want to be that jerk who proclaims things and fights for them when they are just wrong

[high island]

"Strong" isn't the word I would use for it, but it can be effective.

[stable glen]

I mean I had lots of poms that run so maybe, but it worked pretty damn well

[cedar nexus]

third slash has 200 damage base but with all this and max shadow presence only 1100 damage from behind

[high island]

Now imagine what those poms could have done in a build with boons that have decent pom scaling.

[reef zodiac]

Lmao the server I’m the most active in is the Hollow Knight server which is… a very very different environment to say the least

[high island]

Strong and effective aren't the same, anyway. It can work pretty damn well without being very strong.

[stable glen]

Is this your way of telling me aphro's special woulda been better?

[reef zodiac]

I remember when one of the top players in the world joined the chat to say “Hornet Pregnat Pic” in front of 3 mods with no context

[high island]

Divine Flourish and Frost Flourish both have the worst % damage and, thus, worst pom scaling.

[faint moon]

Popping in quickly to ask something about this: Are there charts for pom scaling available somewhere to anyone's knowledge?

[high island]

Frost Flourish can scale with some t2 boons, though, while you can't really do anything to help Divine Flourish.

[reef zodiac]

Or even better, Arty special

[stable glen]

Well if I was dealing 100+ extra damage after the 1st hit, unless aphro's attack would have been over 100% more than demeter's, would it still have dealt more damage?

[high island]

Heartbreak Flourish has great pom scaling but only scales with poms.

And the pom scaling isn't as good as Drunken Flourish.

Drunken Flourish scales with poms and with Duo Boons.

[reef zodiac]

Wait Arty special is better than aphro special on Chiron in almost every situation right?

[stable glen]

Unless you happen to get a heroic, I'd say yes

[high island]

Deadly Flourish scales with poms and Duo Boons and benefits a lot more than other Special boons from any bonus Special damage. (Hangover will benefit more from global bonus damage, though.)

[stable glen]

Got a question

how does hunter's mark work

does the mark only affect one hit

[brisk trail]

its better with heartrend but without heartrend aphro might be better ye

[stable glen]

or multiple

[brisk trail]

the mark is there until you crit

[stable glen]

Oh okay

[high island]

No. Heartbreak Flourish is better out of the box and with a couple poms on it. But Deadly Flourish can scale with some other sources, like I just said.

Also Hunter's Mark adds a lot of DPS.

[reef zodiac]

Oh alright

[high island]

But Deadly Flourish poms are kinda sad.

[stable glen]

For chiron, does it only affect the 1st special arrow that crits?

or for all the arrows fired

in that combo

[reef zodiac]

The absolute worst people are the people who argue with the best players in the world as if they themself know what they’re talking about better than whoever they’re talking to. I am trying my best very to not do that lmao

[high island]

Hunter's Mark? Only the first hit, but you will crit a lot with low variance, so Hunter's Mark will spread a lot. And any damage can crit on Marked targets.

[robust scaffold]

lol

[hard pawn]

[stable glen]

Kinda like the people on reddit who call esports pros trash or washed

[high island]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cVdy_XLcHHzbJsIG_OX6vUlr8eTlcLuw32FXq-gx1jc/edit?usp=sharing

[stable glen]

Is this pinned somewhere

seems pretty damn pinnable

[thorn marsh]

nah she just has a damn file full of spreadsheets and guide

do not the question the ways of nyaanyaa

[stable glen]

So uh

How do I read it

I'm pretty damn slow

[high island]

I just have it in my browser history lol. That one's actually not by me.

[stable glen]

I mean

how do I make sense of it

[thorn marsh]

[reef zodiac]

That’s the whole HK server. The literal best speed runner in the world could join the channel and so could one of the greatest challenge runners of all time, and some people will still argue with them about how good a certain charm is. God I hate those people

[faint moon]

Thanks so much!

[stable glen]

that's not the same thing, HK charm builds are very varried. One speedrunner could never take a charm off while another might never touch it

[brisk trail]

its ok to have opinions just dont argue like they are a definite truth and I think you will be fine

[stable glen]

Def charms that are better than others, but there's a lot of viable options

[brisk trail]

I didn't feel like you tried to do that, since you listend to what others said

[reef zodiac]

But when every single good player (and I mean literally all of them, every single one) says Sharp Shadow is terrible, and some random person with 50 hours gos “nah I think it’s really good”, I bang my head into a wall

[robust scaffold]

thats probably just trolling lol

dont take it too seriously