Oh wait no image perms
#h1-discussion
hollow wave
So
4 figures
Stickers
Literature Club membership card
Soundtrack
And a poem by one of the characters
prisma kindle
I am so happy that hades is coming to Xbox and ps4 i can't wait to play ahhhh
peak orbit
So question
If we just give Sp Achilles Flurry jab and Lightning Strike, that could basically demolish the game?
is Achilles and Flurry Jab so good you don't need like a cast build or something to have great runs?
hollow wave
Wanna know whos best goddess? Artemis
She seems very cool to hang out with
I wonder if she accepts Trans Gals into her hunters
hollow hawk
is Achilles and Flurry Jab so good you don't need like a cast build or something...
yeah, you dont
achilles with flurry + zeus/artemis attack is probably the best spear build you can have, and its also one of the fastest builds in the game
hollow wave
Is the last weapon counted as a spoiler?
peak orbit
**I wonder if she accepts Trans Gals into her hunters**
I'm sure she would. Just make sure you go full abstinence.
chrome wharf
I don't think weapons are spoilers
peak orbit
yeah, you dont
Why is it so good then? What makes Flurry Jab so good you don't need anything else?
peak orbit
Artemis is just generally a nice person
Though knowing me, Aphrodite can woo me with her body easily
hollow hawk
Why is it so good then? What makes Flurry Jab so good you don't need anything el...
Well, it attacks very very rapidly
chrome wharf
Flurry jab is infinitely repeating attacks without reload or RSI
hollow wave
Artemis is chill long as ya don't see her naked
hollow hawk
and with the achilles buff your attack will be dealing a lot of dmg
hollow wave
That fate is worse than death
hollow wave
Artemis is the one god I'd befriend irl
As the plain myths or the Hades version?
chrome wharf
Is she actually the goddess of abstinence or something?
the Hades ver, idk about myths
hollow wave
Ah
Poseidon and Dionysus seem chill
Though Id probably pass on the drinks
And Id definitely hang out with Hypnos
and boop his little nose
chrome wharf
My hades thegame harem: Dionysus the bf, Hermes the Bae, Poseidon the husband
My regular file had Dio's cup as top keepsake forever because I didn't build the cabinet and just liked him a lot
hollow wave
Poseidon the uncle who tries too hard to be hip with the kids
chrome wharf
Lol
peak orbit
I’d hang with Poseidon and Dionysus for sure
polar marsh
dusa deserves best boops 
hollow hawk
Poseidon is the cool uncle
peak orbit
I think Zeus is the only god I’d actively avoid
hollow hawk
Not really the rad friend
chrome wharf
Zeus just blasts runaway baby on his pickup 24/8
hollow wave
Poseidon would dab thinking its still cool
hollow hawk
yep^^
peak orbit
Well, it attacks very very rapidly
So that’s it then. I was Ruby to just play Flurry Jab on my first Spear run
chrome wharf
wait dabbing isn't cool anymore?
hollow hawk
You were ruby? Gotcha
hollow wave
wait dabbing isn't cool anymore?
peak orbit
Artemis is the one friend who dislikes everyone in her family even when they try to be nice in their own way
peak orbit
https://tenor.com/view/duck-tales-epic-dewey-dab-gif-15221264
If you can dream it, you can Dewey it
chrome wharf
quak
hollow wave
Also the fact I can't romance Hypnos makes me do a sad
hollow wave
||Zeus is the sex||
peak orbit
If I live in Mount Olympus I’d actively avoid him knowing he’s a r$&#@€!
And if I knew his role in the Persephone story I’d be all that’s messed up
chrome wharf
**Also the fact I can't romance Hypnos makes me do a sad**
same
or any of the Olympians that's Zag's generation
hollow wave
At most Id flirt
hollow wave
Ive yet to meet Than so cant confirm or deny
chrome wharf
I've no strong feelings either way
peak orbit
He’s a fun person when you get to know him
chrome wharf
idk if it's my brain stuff but I find his forward sprite really unsettling
peak orbit
I really like that though
chrome wharf
I just don't do well with faces in general
eh probably just me then
I have energy only for 1 couple per franchise and Hades/Persephone ate up all of it
chrome wharf
I especially like the games version
it's a twist on a trope that I actually mostly dislike
hollow wave
I really like versions of Hades where hes just a chill edgy dude whos actually pretty nice
chrome wharf
but with my main gripes sort of addressed
chill until you take advantage
Then No Mercy
peak orbit
I really like versions of Hades where hes just a chill edgy dude whos actually p...
Same
The one exception is Disney Hades
hollow wave
I have mixed feelings about that movie overall
peak orbit
No same
peak orbit
I just love Hades because he’s the only good part of the movie
I mean sure he’s so inaccurate but I like him because he’s way too much fun
hollow hawk
I think its fine to steer away from the told and true mythology
Thats how stories develop and adapt to audiences other than their original
peak orbit
I think its fine to steer away from the told and true mythology
Sure. But they Disney Hercules just exposes an alarming misunderstanding of the mythology that feels like plain Christian POV bias
high island
@peak orbit keep in mind that Achilles meta starts with Tidal Dash and then looks for Flurry Jab + Deadly Strike (or Lightning Strike, but recently less so), so the damage isn't just from Flurry Jab.
peak orbit
Oh right
opal wharf
i feel like
i gotten to a point
where i have so much dd
even when a run is trash
i can still beat Hades
brisk trail
its heat time
void vigil
sounds like you should switch to sd and turn lasting consequences all the way up 
vapid narwhal
time to turn up the heat!
brisk trail
something that sounds easy for you?
i'd try them out
approval process and routine inspection are very hard ones I'd ignore them for now
hollow hawk
for heat 3 you can basically take anything tbh
extreme measures and tight deadline are good picks imo
brisk trail
heightend security is also evil on low heat
high island
I'd just take anything you haven't tried yet.
Later on, you'll want to think a bit more about what options you want to combine.
But something like 3 Heat is perfect for just trying out everything and getting more experience.
brisk trail
I would also recommend you shuffle your Heat options, too.
Some options hit players very differently.
Oh, wait, I misread that.
brisk trail
gotta do everything for the prophecy anyway
vapid narwhal
"Whether we want it or not, we've stepped into a war with the pact of punishment in the underworld..."
calm pelican
so after beating meg a lot of times i got her 2 sisters as bosses
manic bobcat
Yes
calm pelican
can someone tell me why this happened? is it after a specific number of kills?
manic bobcat
Yes
As for why it happens. It's that Meg alone can't stop you so they call in "reinforcements"
calm pelican
so will meg ever come back?
the new ones are a lot harder :^)
also will this happen with hydra too?
thatd be bad
manic bobcat
so will meg ever come back?
She will, occasionally.
manic bobcat
also will this happen with hydra too?
Hydra already has variations from the get go
You get different head color each time with slightly different movesets.
calm pelican
o
i also noticed blessings have this golden ring around them sometimes
whats that for
calm pelican
on the boons
crisp fractal
I finally got the aspect of Arthur
manic bobcat
on the boons
So like when you choose a boon from 3 options? That's would be rarity I guess.
chrome wharf
Like when the boon drops in the overworld
There's sometimes a halo around it, but along the bottom
calm pelican
im pretty sure i see normal rarity boons even with that ring
manic bobcat
Probably just a visual effect then
crisp fractal
does anyone have any tips on how I should manage my ambrosia? how much of it should I trade for titan blood?
void vigil
boons always have that golden ring around them, you probably just didnt always notice it
its just how they look
also, i never traded my ambrosia for titan blood until i finished forging every bond in the game
and upgrading every companion
crisp fractal
who unlocks the shield's hidden aspect?
manic bobcat
does anyone have any tips on how I should manage my ambrosia? how much of it sho...
You can trade a few but don't go overboard. I say 5 or 6 is on the safe side, if you really want them titan blood.
chrome wharf
shield is unlocked by chaos
crisp fractal
ok thanks
chrome wharf
There's a guide for all the weapons pinned in story discussions
robust scaffold
guan yu is suffering :(
pulsar ridge
it is 
signal aspen
guan yu fun
unborn remnant
Spear is not fun
robust scaffold
its okay to be wrong /s
whole sun
pool of purging gives 0 obols when convience fee is on? is this intended?
signal aspen
no
robust scaffold
u have a chaos boon
signal aspen
check if you have a chaos boon
robust scaffold
somewhere lol
signal aspen
np
robust scaffold
np
chrome wharf
ahahahaha
hollow wave
Give him boop
wheat anvil
Hypnos. Hate him. But I actually get sad when he has nothing to say and roll my eyes when he says anything. Not sure what this type of relationship is called.
manic bobcat
A love hate relationship?
vivid kayak
narrow hemlock
that's a weird thing to say considering hypnos fans had almost no content through early access and had to scrape for whatever crumbs they could find from the other handful of fans 😌
narrow hemlock
a lot of people weren't, but it's just funny to me to see hype in the same thought as hypnos bc it was surprising he even garnered popularity post release rofl
narrow hemlock
i think a lot of people don't understand him but i also think his characterization is a bit unfocused
unsurprisingly the big three never had any sort of presence in fan content lmao hades gets a bit more bc of zag
dionysus was one that took me by surprise, the olympians didn't really have much presence in general outside of aph and arty, but dio got really popular post release. wish ares would have taken off more but i am biased of course
chrome wharf
yeah I basically scrape zag related memes for that one panel of hades
I thought Ares was decently popular
cool looks, cool boons
narrow hemlock
he's the least popular of the younger generation olympians, in fan content. lots of people talk about how cool and hot he is but content is largely dominated by dio, arty, aph and hermes. athena i see less often but still more than ares
i get excited if i see like 3 or more pieces of ares content within the same week lol
chrome wharf
Mmm that's fair I just don't hang around in fan spaces much
narrow hemlock
this is also based off twitter tags since i keep a column open for the main hades tag on tweetdeck, dunno what it's like on tumblr but the majority of work is crossposted to both anyway
one day i will type coherently words hard 
chrome wharf
that's a mood
sigh to be a hades/persephone fan and have seen like, 5 fanarts of them, ever
one of which is reddit only, and the other in the corner of a doodle montage
sure there's lots of other versions based on the myth itself but I'm pretty partial to their game version's dynamic
narrow hemlock
ive def seen more but at the same time people are more taken with nyx/perse lol.
chrome wharf
nyx/perse is good too
hades/perse/nyx is a nice polyline, I just don't have the shipping energy to fully commit
zag's two hands came from somewhere.
last cradle
was the poseidon fishing boon a one time thing?
i laughed when i got it bc it was just so silly
oak ibex
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/659820450297282585/855472559894167582/Scr...
I love Hypnos, but sometimes, I wanna strangle him
cerulean ferry
was the poseidon fishing boon a one time thing?
Nah you can get it again
last cradle
ah dope
hollow wave
HOLY I JUST GOT A SUPER FAR RUN
Made it all the way to Bone Hydra
The fists are GREAT
modern garnet
they sure do hit incredibly fast
unborn remnant
let them have their fun
onyx skiff
high island
People learn and play at their own pace. What's easy for you isn't necessarily easy for others.
manic bobcat
It's not even hard to get there boonless
Well starting out you also don't have mirror and aspects, and probably no keepsake/low level keepsake also.
viscid breach
manic bobcat
Do no upgrade run and see how long it takes
wanton spear
Só Glad i can bê a part of this comunity now with the game coming tô PS4
stoic flame
i see
hollow wave
..... Did he just say zone 2 is super far?
*she
And yeah it was far for me
runic agate
Sorry
oak ibex
I like to think of Bone Hydra as the baby of th bosses, but solely because everyone else is super intimidating or, in the case of Asterius and Theseus, quiet and annoying respectfully
narrow hemlock
for reference you can get pronoun roles in #bot-commands if you'd like :) @hollow wave
unborn remnant
I think the boss progression is correct
hollow wave
Thankies
unborn remnant
the first boss isnt that bad imo, meg is the easiest of them
hollow wave
I disagree since majority of the time she takes at least 1 Death Defiance from me (and currently my only defiance unless I got a extra just for that run)
oak ibex
Meg took me a while to beat initially, but I was able to beat the Bone Hydra on the first try, much to my pleasant surprise
hollow wave
I probably would have been able to if Death Defiance brought back all your health
stoic flame
spect of achilles or hades
unborn remnant
I disagree since majority of the time she takes at least 1 Death Defiance from m...
her attacks are by far the easiest to avoid of any boss
they're very telegraphed and she has low health
its much easier to dodge against her
narrow hemlock
it just takes practice. everyone experiences the game differently and finds different things hard. meg was more of a roadblock for me than hydra when i first started playing, but once i got my first few kills on her she never gave me trouble after that.
unborn remnant
I can understand how it may feel that way
early game you're still trying to learn the mechanics
stoic flame
uhh i got a choice bw mirage shot and lightning rod
which one should i chose
i cant make out which will be better
unborn remnant
build?
stoic flame
attack nad special zeus
achilles spear
i chose lightnng rod
lmao i also got mirage shot
she offered it to me for the second time
royal thistle
Me before hades fight knowing I won't die with 3 DD's and 335 hp
203 hp remaining pog
stiff musk
do u know what i just realized
manic bobcat
that your name has artemis but your pfp is meg?
royal thistle
Yes
stiff musk
shut up
but also hades has less hp in his em4 third phase than he does in his second because its like his last wind
royal thistle
@chrome wharf what good timing
Currently doing an ap2 run
With zag shield
It's pure pain
The only luck I've gotten is getting chaos 5 times
But what I got from him was crap except dash attack and gold
chrome wharf
*flashbacks to just getting 2 movement speed nerfs from them
chrome wharf
at least one of them gave me Atk +30%
royal thistle
At least I got chaos legendary I guess
I'll need it
;-;
Forced to take drunken dash
NOO
My tidal dash
Where all my dps was from
chrome wharf
F
crude surge
but also hades has less hp in his em4 third phase than he does in his second bec...
or maybe because the devs just have at least a little mercy
AP2 
Not at all tilting
chrome wharf
just gotta roll with the rng
crude surge
AP1 is frustrating enough for me lol
chrome wharf
Yeah at least with shield you don't take lots damage
crude surge
One time when I didn’t get Zeus attack at the start after using all my rerolls and died on purpose
Hypnos then asked if I was trying
Thanks Hypnos
chrome wharf
lmao
I burned all my rerolls getting Zeus fists in the first room only for Arty to show up and replace it with hers
crude surge
crude surge
This is fine
chrome wharf
but she gave me support fire later so
royal thistle
Amirite
This would've been my best shield time
If my dps didn't get shattered by dio
peak zealot
I feel like I've been trying to get the optimal blade dash run for weeks now
modern garnet
Mm, ares and zeus... two gods where you gotta get a lot of their boons to be good
peak zealot
I mean, not really. Ares is mostly defined by duo boons. His self synergy kind of sucks
Blade dash builds are the only pure ares build I know of and all it really needs is a bunch of poms
But good isn't satisfying. I want the perfect blade dash build with all three hermes boons
its just so hard to get
Mono zues builds really are after the legendary though, I'll give you that
crude surge
Even with blade dash you want hunting blades
pulsar ridge
I'd argue beams better because it doesn't stop hitting stationary targets
peak zealot
ya. At least beams can apply 10 stacks of frost really quick
royal thistle
Bro what
peak zealot
if you don't get the duo, crystal beam is better than blade rift because at least crystal bleam applies 10 stacks of frost. Blade rift deals an irrelevant amount of damage mostly unsafely
unreal atlas
Crystal beam only applies Frost with a secondary Dem boon so
royal thistle
That's just not true
unreal atlas
I honestly prefer rift over beam for any enemy that moves
unreal atlas
The tracking on Beam is so bad against most enemies, unless you have the "fast track" boon from dem or the Arty duo
peak zealot
I'm well aware. @unreal atlas I'm arguing that the fact that crystal beam has a useful secondary makes it much better than blade rift if you don't get duo boons. Without duos or secondary boons, neither is useful
but at least beams has a meaningfully good secondary while ares just does. Ares cast is duo or bust
peak zealot
the ares support boons don't matter. At least not compared to frost beam
royal thistle
Vicious cycle and the other one
unreal atlas
Ignores half the Ares support boons, which is more a problem with Ares as a god rather than blade shot itself
hollow hawk
battle rage is busted on some weps wdym
unreal atlas
Black Metal is the one that makes it larger
hollow hawk
urge to kill is decent, better than some of dem's t1 support boons
unreal atlas
Vicious Circle cast is actually really good in my opinion
hollow hawk
ares' revenge boon, curse of vengeance, is like the second best revenge boon in the game
Vicious cycle is also busted
Hunting blades+vicious is insane amounts of dmg
royal thistle
Urge to kill, vicious cycle black metal engulfing vortex
unreal atlas
Ares' problem is that his entire kit is cleft in two, and the two halves could not be more separate
peak zealot
no, hunting blades is insane damag.e Viscious is mostly irrelevant.
hollow hawk
what
royal thistle
What
hollow hawk
Have you ever used vicious??
peak zealot
Yes, dozens of times
hollow hawk
it literally increases your dmg by so much dude
royal thistle
He ignores engulfing too
hollow hawk
guess you just never noticed lol
unreal atlas
Vicious makes everything better without Hunting, Hunting just makes the cast really good
royal thistle
Bro engulfing solves all your problems
hollow hawk
its literally so much free dmg
royal thistle
You don't even need hunting
peak zealot
I'm aware that it increases damage. It is just a marginal incrase when compared to hunting blades
royal thistle
If you got engulfing
unreal atlas
Engulfing is more for Call than Cast though
royal thistle
Engulfing is more for Call than Cast though
Nah..
hollow hawk
I'm aware that it increases damage. It is just a marginal incrase when compared ...
Hunting blades isnt a dmg increase, just accuracy increase, which leads to more dmg. And no, its not a marginal difference
peak zealot
Ungulfing is more for dash than either
hollow hawk
Engulfing is more for Call than Cast though
No
unreal atlas
Wait... which is which here
hollow hawk
Engulfing and black metal are both available for cast
peak zealot
engulfing vortex makes rift effects last longer and pull foes in
royal thistle
Engulfing sucks enemies into the blades
unreal atlas
Oh yeah
unreal atlas
I had it and Vicious (the legendary) mixed up
hollow hawk
+2 dmg per hit is pretty insane when your rifts are gonna be hitting a lot
royal thistle
Vicious basically increases your damage by an insane amount
unreal atlas
I meant Engulfing was really good for cast and Vicious feels really good with Call
royal thistle
Vicious works for all
peak zealot
viscious is an extra 2 base damage per hit. Its fine with cast but much less important than hunting blades
royal thistle
Especially cast and dash
unreal atlas
Not so much dash, you'd think
royal thistle
Increases uptime
peak zealot
Ya, viscous does almost nothing for dash
royal thistle
Or how long it lasts
hollow hawk
viscious is an extra 2 base damage per hit. Its fine with cast but much less imp...
Thats true, but you're ignoring that its a huge dmg buff. Its a pretty necessary part after you get hunting blades
The dash lasts so short, yeah
unreal atlas
Oh the Uptime is really good on dash
peak zealot
Yes, ungulfing vortex is most important for blade dash builds
royal thistle
Compared to the Chad ares
peak zealot
Its very similar DPS
royal thistle
I mean it's dps really be lacking
hollow hawk
crystal beam with stygian soul, extra chaos casts, glacial glare and crystal clarity is also pretty insane dmg
Especially for bosses
royal thistle
It's worse by a lot then seeking blades
unreal atlas
Crystal Beam can rack up so much damage if it can stay on a target for more than 1.2 seconds
peak zealot
and the best beam builds are much higher DPS than rifts, but optimal beam builds are extremely hard to get
hollow hawk
^^
Hunting blades are easier
Also since we were comparing demeter and ares, ares is objectively better
royal thistle
It's good if you get 3 specific boons
unreal atlas
crystal beam with stygian soul, extra chaos casts, glacial glare and crystal cla...
That's just because Chaotic Grasp plus Stygian is so powerful, not just because of the secondaries
hollow hawk
He has better support boons, better core boons (attack, special, dash)
hollow hawk
That's just because Chaotic Grasp plus Stygian is so powerful, not just because ...
No..?
Glacial glare is pretty good
Y'all have never run a good beam build
unreal atlas
I agree that Glare is good, but Grasp Stygian is just the biggest thing in any cast build
hollow hawk
chaotic grasp with stygian soul, on zag cast won't do anything
peak zealot
Optimal Beam build includes: beams, frost beam, clarity, double cast, frost explositions, and a bunch of extra casts
hollow hawk
Yeah it does improve cast builds but for beam, it lasts very long with good glacial glare
So you get a lot of lasers
just watch haelian's beam build on youtube, he got a pretty insane build
unreal atlas
I almost always use Infernal personally, so the max I'll have out is three most of the time
hollow hawk
thats what we're saying, infernal is terrible
unreal atlas
It's more consistent but lacks the potential to get really nutty
hollow hawk
That's on you for not using stygian with crystal beam
peak zealot
It can still get really nutty when you get extra casts
hollow hawk
dont blame the boon/build itself
unreal atlas
I don't usually plan for a specific build, sir
hollow hawk
we're arguing about if the build is good, not if it magically appears in runs without going for it
unreal atlas
Specifically aiming for builds is a playstyle I don't personally agree with, so I'm not the most qualified to comment
peak zealot
I mean, you can play with multiple playstyles. Sometimes I go on a fluid run. sometimes I have a strong idea of what I'm going for. Sometimes its somewhere in between
There are a lot of builds that you can't really fall into though, so if you want to see whats really possible, you have to be willing to do dedicated builds sometimes
Like, you will just never get one of the few Pom based builds if you are always just freestyling
jagged wedge
Has anyone ever completed 63/64 Heat unseeded?
unreal atlas
The combination of so many factors makes it nearly impossible even for the best players
jagged wedge
Damn. Also: one time I just arbitrarily picked up Second Wave (Poseidon) which makes your Knockaway effects hit twice and that run was the most chaotic run I had ever done. It’s legit a fun boon. Shame it doesn’t work on bosses, though
royal thistle
Just committed dumb
unreal atlas
What if it did
unreal atlas
You just give Lernie whiplash by knocking him about like a slinky
jagged wedge
What if it did
Someone’s going to do a challenge run and vanquish EM4 Hades by knocking him into the rocks in the arena.
royal thistle
Sounds funni
jagged wedge
And did an Arthur seeking blades
Excalibur is my favorite aspect in the game man
unreal atlas
It'd be hilarious if it affected him as much as it does a common lout
unreal atlas
...does the effect of knockback lessen due to anything based on enemy type?
royal thistle
See what I get
jagged wedge
It'd be hilarious if it affected him as much as it does a common lout
I mean, knocking around the God of the Dead like a pinball would be pretty funny
jagged wedge
...does the effect of knockback lessen due to anything based on enemy type?
No, as far as I know. Knockback only has diminishing/no effect on bosses and mini-bosses.
I’m also unsure whether Rupture will still deal damage to Hades whilst he is invisible.
jagged wedge
That makes sense. It doesn’t make much sense to me, though, that the Helm of Darkness makes Hades intangible to attacks as well as invisible, since the Sigil of the Dead only makes you invisible.
It’d be cool if you could look at where the footprints are and then start attacking to get extra damage in against an invisible Hades before he reveals himself.
robust scaffold
wait a minute
the wiki says he will disappear and reappear if zag uses a call
and he removes all status effects
jagged wedge
Really? I’ve never tried using a Call while he was invisible since I’m afraid of wasting it, haha.
robust scaffold
no the cause and effect is reversed i think
from the wording in the wiki
call -> hades goes invisible
jagged wedge
Oh
hollow hawk
That makes sense. It doesn’t make much sense to me, though, that the Helm of Dar...
sigil of dead makes you invincible until you attack
same with dad
He cant attack you while invisible, if he does, he's vulnerable
also, no, the wiki is wrong about the call. Dad doesn't disappear after you use it, he just repeats his last action. So if he spinned recently, and you use a half charge call (not full gauge) he'll spin again
jagged wedge
so it does make you invincible, neat.
unreal atlas
It's exactly the same idea of "can't be seen or hit" with Invisible, but Unseen persists even after you attack
hollow hawk
oh yeah^full gauge gives you full invincibility
unreal atlas
It does always feel like I waste Greater Call on an invisible hades so that could be where that misconception came from
But that's probably just me being dumb
jagged wedge
Artemis’ call is the single biggest damage burst nuke in the game, right?
crude surge
Depends on how many crits you get
jagged wedge
I mean, I once recall getting a combo that allowed my Greater Call from Artemis to do 5400 damage to Hades.
peak zealot
IDK, I still think my favorite build is Poseidon call + rip current with smoldering air
You can get several thousand damage per call and do a call every 8 seconds or so
peak zealot
I almost never try for the build though. It happens on accident sometimes when I'm doing aspect of hera runs
Its about every 8 seconds. The call meter doesnt' start recharging until after the call ends and the call lasts about 3 seconds
hollow hawk
I mean, I once recall getting a combo that allowed my Greater Call from Artemis ...
You can do more or less the same damage with a good dio beo, or passion flare beo build
peak zealot
beo?
peak zealot
sure
royal thistle
Died inside..
Arti replaced drunken dash when I wanted it for once for haha priv go brr
And dio in Return took my crit special
Demeter btw
brisk trail
are you playing ap2 or somethin
royal thistle
Y e s
hollow hawk
Unless you're doing 45+ heat, dont do ap2
royal thistle
Ap2 is fun
hollow hawk
eh, fun isnt how id describe it
royal thistle
Approval
hollow hawk
one that cancels your boon choices
crude surge
Crosses out boons
royal thistle
Less choices
peak zealot
Sure. Is that fun?
royal thistle
Aka the biggest pp one
crude surge
So you don’t get to pick if you have two levels of it
hollow hawk
you should try extreme measures @royal thistle
makes bosses challenging and fun
especially em3 and em4
royal thistle
you should try extreme measures <@592126293303361538>
I mean ap2 is cooler
And em 3 is not fun
Ur telling me chariot thesius is fun???
hollow hawk
em3 is challenging, and thats fun for me
peak zealot
EM and BP and MM all make the enemies more fun to fight
brisk trail
Artemis’ call is the single biggest damage burst nuke in the game, right?
I believe Aphrodite's Aid is still the biggest.
peak zealot
well, maybe not BP so much
royal thistle
All the ems are fun except em3
hollow hawk
I believe Aphrodite's Aid is still the biggest.
Thats just 2500 flat
brisk trail
It can crit.
crude surge
It can crit?
hollow hawk
i mean thats like saying an arthur shadow slash backstab is biggest dmg because it can crit if you have arty attack
hollow hawk
Not quite flat, it can be modified by other effects
arty call can be too
hollow hawk
It can crit?
With pp
brisk trail
hollow hawk
Or mark
peak zealot
@hollow hawk I'm aware
Biggest single damage I've ever dealt was from Aphro aid with +150% + crit
Sad thing is it wasn't even on hades
crude surge
https://youtu.be/z_qXvU1DJQU
How do they have legendary support fire?
peak zealot
so massive amounts of wasted damage
crude surge
And what’s with the UI
royal thistle
E
crude surge
Ic
peak zealot
I mean, you can still get legendary support fire right?
hollow hawk
no
royal thistle
No
crude surge
No
hollow hawk
Its a common boon now
royal thistle
U can get heroic
brisk trail
How do they have legendary support fire?
Old build.
hollow hawk
That leads to artemis legendary
peak zealot
I meant heroic ya
crude surge
Did heroic not exist yet?
hollow hawk
it did
crude surge
And that’s how you got it?
peak zealot
so what was legendary support fire?
hollow hawk
Support fire was just artemis' legendary instead of fully loaded, which was a common boon
It was the same
royal thistle
Ap2 Is the funni
hollow hawk
as it is today
peak zealot
Oh. makes sense. Would have been an underwhelming legendary
At least, when compared to +2 casts
crude surge
Fully loaded common 
royal thistle
I mean in beta you can legit pom the legendary
hollow hawk
yeah almost every cast build had fully loaded back in the day
high island
Support Fire used to be way better than it is now.
crude surge
I remember hearing mirage shot used to be a common boon called dual shot. So what was in mirages place?
royal thistle
Support fire now is way overbalanced
hollow hawk
i dont think fully loaded was pommable but i wasnt around in early access and nya was
brisk trail
There was a while where Poseidon and Artemis didn't have a Duo.
brisk trail
I think every Duo was filled out in the Blood Price.
brisk trail
I still miss Freak Accident. Lightning hit every time you crit.
hollow hawk
instead we have R O D
peak zealot
That seeems like more fun than lightning rod
peak zealot
especially with zeus adding extra hits to every attack and adding extra crit opportunities
crude surge
That sounds fun
royal thistle
R a il
peak zealot
They could have changed the numbers to have lighting be wekaer if it was too good
Or give it a cool down like they did with zues special
hollow hawk
would still be op because pp + hunters mark exists, and jolted exists
Every lighting strike has a cooldown iirc
Not just special
peak zealot
IF attack has a cooldown, I've never noticed
hollow hawk
Its 0.2 secs i think
peak zealot
@hollow hawk make the lighting strikes deal 1 damage each. I gaurantee it wouldnt be OP anymore
peak zealot
No, but clearly if some numbers make it OP and some numbers make it UP, then there exists a number some where where it is appropriately balanced
hollow hawk
striking balance is important, not just nerfing it to the ground
crude surge
Duo boons are supposed to be strong anyways
hollow hawk
yeah but finding that number and balancing it + jolted/pp+mark, is hard
high island
did it do more dmg? <@311477984886521856>
I don't know about Support Fire as a legendary, but when I started playing in Welcome to Hell, Support Fire had better base damage and silly pom scaling.
hollow hawk
but then again ME exists
peak zealot
you say that but half the duos do almost nothing
royal thistle
striking balance is important, not just nerfing it to the ground
Look what happened to support fire
peak zealot
maybe not half. Maybe a quartetr
hollow hawk
most of the duos do something
hollow hawk
curse of drowning is good on the right builds
crude surge
Curse of drowning is good
hollow hawk
Like with Talos
peak zealot
curse of longing always feels really irrelevant
royal thistle
Same with phro beams
crude surge
Just kinda hard to use
high island
Unshakable Mettle is amazing.
hollow hawk
curse of longing always feels really irrelevant
its really just because ME exists
peak zealot
Parting bonus would be good if the game was consistent
royal thistle
E
hollow hawk
if ME didnt exist, longing would've been considered better
parting is pretty good with hera
or poseidon
peak zealot
I mean, its not though because the game registers back hits randomly
hollow hawk
what
hollow hawk
no..?
backstabs are pretty accurate, except for on hera where athena cast backstabs from the front
peak zealot
IDK, I feel like its more than just athena cast that has odd semi random behavior
royal thistle
Why can you cluster rockets but can't even hazard rockets or hazard anything
brisk trail
Hazard Rockets would also get you killed very very very quickly.
royal thistle
I mean worse then cluster same as triple
peak zealot
Sweet nectar is good if you get it in the first two floors and pretty much doesn't matter otherwise
crude surge
Hazard rockets would take away the drawback of hazard would it not?
royal thistle
Or hazard triple or hazard cluster
hollow hawk
Sweet nectar is good if you get it in the first two floors and pretty much doesn...
Some duos are by design like that
Like exclusive access
also sweet nectar is decent even in styx id argue
crude surge
Tart exclusive access is the best
peak zealot
It seems really dumb to make a boon that is both extremely hard to get early and only good if you get it early
crude surge
also sweet nectar is decent even in styx id argue
^
hollow hawk
thats not dumb, thats just balancing it. Double poms is a huge bonus if you have a cast build
high island
Sweet Nectar can still be great if you get it in the Temple of Styx.
crude surge
Styx poms are great
royal thistle
Forgot how stupid Eris is
peak zealot
@hollow hawk depends on if you have already bought the poms from styx shop
hollow hawk
yeah..? thats just on you to strategize better
peak zealot
Usually, I clean out styx shop instantly on arrival. But maybe I should be waiting more
hollow hawk
"hmm i could get sweet nectar from this miniboss tunnel, i should save my money to buy poms later"
thats literally how games work, decision making
peak zealot
That sounds annoying to have to check the tunnels then go to the shop then go back to the tunnels though
I want to be fast
hollow hawk
sigh
high island
I just skip final shop most of the time because it costs more time than it can save more often than not.
crude surge
You can’t say something is bad because you refuse to use it well
hollow hawk
^
peak zealot
And even then, its a duo boon and would still only be getting you 1-2 extra poms
thats just not good
hollow hawk
it can get you like 4-5 extra poms in styx
peak zealot
No it can't
hollow hawk
depends on the shop and tunnel rewards though
high island
1-2 poms is still decent.
peak zealot
Most I've ever seen is 3 poms in shop and 1 pom in tunnels. I'm pretty sure 5 is impossible
hollow hawk
big pom gets you 2 more, big pom from shop gets you 2 more thats 4, small pom from shop gets you one more
peak zealot
Big pom is only 3 with duo boon, not 4
hollow hawk
oh right
peak zealot
Its netting you 1-2 poms if you delay shopping.
hollow hawk
3-4, then, still a pretty decent duo
again, even 2 more poms can get you a lot more damage
peak zealot
I mean, I guess. I usually run with moms trinket so I'm never short poms
hollow hawk
dude you're criticizing the duo when you're not using it well anyway
Its not the duo boon thats bad, its just you not using it well/not having a use for it
crude surge
^
peak zealot
Let me put it this way, its one of the rare duo boons that you can get and actually have it be useless
high island
I get Sweet Nectar on Hera runs much earlier than in the Temple of Styx much more often.
peak zealot
Yes, early sweet nectar is good
hollow hawk
how is it even rare
robust scaffold
parting shot, exclusive access are both useless too if u get them late or dont have a cast
peak zealot
Rare in the sense of "there aren't very many" as in there aren't very many duo boons that you can get and have be tottally irrelevant
hollow hawk
ME is busted so thats expected
quartz garden
he is using moms trinket pretty well though, it increasing a pom randomly helps not thinking too much about the game
high island
Parting Shot is still bonus backstab damage.
royal thistle
Anyways Athena legendary is the coolest one
robust scaffold
Parting Shot is still bonus backstab damage.
does it apply to non casts
peak zealot
ya
hollow hawk
nah the coolest is demeter@royal thistle
high island
Sure.
hollow hawk
@robust scaffold yep
robust scaffold
oo cool
peak zealot
its only +25% or something though right?
robust scaffold
35
peak zealot
not huge, but not nothing
hollow hawk
30 i think
robust scaffold
huh
high island
lol
hollow hawk
its main feature is allowing casts to backstab, not to give you extra backstab dmg
royal thistle
nah the coolest is demeter<@592126293303361538>
10% vs s h i e l d
crude surge
30% bonus backstab is nothing so scoff at
royal thistle
I mean backstab is inconsistent
hollow hawk
10% vs s h i e l d
10% is so cool on hades though
royal thistle
Tru
robust scaffold
its more for a cast build though and i dont have any casts for a lot of runs
royal thistle
But shield
hollow hawk
REAP WHAT YOU SOW
high island
It's not inconsistent, though. 
peak zealot
Backstab on casts is inconsistent. Backstab with normal attacks works pretty consistently
royal thistle
Or haha never take Damage
high island
Parting Shot on Hera is silly.
royal thistle
Some casts can't even backstab
hollow hawk
virgin safe play vs chad grandma
crude surge
Mirage on triply Beowulf go brrrr
peak zealot
If you have athena legend up, do revenge effects go off when you get hit
hollow hawk
Nope
peak zealot
lame
hollow hawk
it deflects the dmg
royal thistle
I mean basically immune to damage
hollow hawk
its literally like divine dash or athena special/attack
royal thistle
Except better
hollow hawk
deflects
royal thistle
And can deflect everything
hollow hawk
yeah im not saying its worse, im just explaining why it doesnt trigger revenge boons
peak zealot
I don't think it deflects more stuff. but it does prevent damage
high island
I think if you think Cast backstabs are inconsistent, you just need more practice.
royal thistle
I mean unless ur using hera
hollow hawk
translation: git gud kid
royal thistle
E
high island
Some attacks like Hades's spin can't be deflected.
peak zealot
The only times I've gotten cast backstabs was with Hera and it was pure RNG
high island
unreal atlas
Can you get Backstab Casts with things like Ares Shot or does it just give bonus backstab damage to normal attacks in that case
manic bobcat
royal thistle
Haha no
manic bobcat
This, but with Hades
peak zealot
IDK, My guess is blade rift can't backstab
royal thistle
Same with pot bomb
peak zealot
can meme beams backstab?
unreal atlas
That's just called an All Weapons speedrun
Considering how IGT works over a single run, Hades is just not meant for RTA
peak zealot
does All Weapons include all aspects, or is it only 6 runs
unreal atlas
All Aspects is a separate category
manic bobcat
You can check on speedrun.com for rules
But IGT is a grindy category
Because it's, i dare say, the most RNG category
crude surge
How is it more than RTA
peak zealot
Has anyone manged to make freezing vortex good?
high island
Err... RTA is quite popular in Hades.
manic bobcat
Has anyone manged to make freezing vortex good?
Nope
manic bobcat
Err... RTA is quite popular in Hades.
Yes.
peak zealot
Sure seems like freezing vortex should make the cast bigger not smaller. Make it feel more like a blizard
royal thistle
E
royal thistle
Sure seems like freezing vortex should make the cast bigger not smaller. Make it...
Ikr
It's kinda really bad
manic bobcat
Anyway, imagine a Triathlon with Hades, Risk of Rain 2, and some roguelite from 3 years back. Could be fun.
peak zealot
I thought it was roguelike, not rougelite
manic bobcat
Well...
It's a touchy subject. But Hades is a roguelite, technically. Call it however you want though.
crude surge
The fact that the genere is called a rougelike is dumb tbh
crude surge
That’s like calling all platformers Mario Likes
peak zealot
Where as metroidvania is a much better name?
crude surge
And now we’re just stuck with rougelike
manic bobcat
It's... Fine?
crude surge
Metroidvania is bad too
peak zealot
also, all platformers are now mariolikes. Lets make that popular
manic bobcat
I mean people are pushing for soulslike
crude surge
But IMO rougelike is worse because most popular rougelikes aren’t even very much like rouge
high island
Don't do meta progression in Hades, and Hades is still a better roguelike than roguelikes.
manic bobcat
I'm fine with that tbh.
peak zealot
I'm just not sure what the characteristics of a soulslike is?
manic bobcat
Yeah let's not have the rogue debate here xD
high island
Soulslikes are Ninjagaidenlites.
manic bobcat
I just wanted to show a fun challenge for roguelike/lite players that includes Hades
manic bobcat
Soulslikes are Ninjagaidenlites.
Now we are getting somewhere.
peak zealot
The original rouge was turn based
so you are saying Rogue was a Chesslike?
crude surge
Chess doesn’t have systematic random generation
peak zealot
Autochess does kind of
hollow hawk
all tennis games are just pong clones
peak zealot
thats a good one
manic bobcat
all tennis games are just pong clones
crude surge
Pong world tournament when
manic bobcat
Hades is so popular the Greek made a religion out of the game.
high island
All MOBA are just dumb down RTS
You mean Dunelites?
manic bobcat
Anyhow, I'm advocating for a Roguelite Triathlon with
Hades
Risk of Rain 2
Isaac.
hollow hawk
who even speedruns all three lol
i dont think i know any speedrunner from the discord that speedruns all three of them
manic bobcat
hollow hawk
I think webs plays isaac, not sure about RoR2
manic bobcat
These people speedrun 5 games in a row
hollow hawk
goddamn
peak zealot
Have we heard anything about DLC or updates for hades at all?
manic bobcat
That's what I'm trying to draw the connection
hollow hawk
@peak zealot nope
peak zealot
or is game development over?
chrome wharf
I actually say "it's like Mario" to explain platformers to people who don't play much video games
manic bobcat
Have we heard anything about DLC or updates for hades at all?
No news. So maybe, maybe not.
Development is being focused on Xbox and PS release I'm sure at the moment.
peak zealot
weird that it came to switch before PS and exbox. Did nintendo buy an exclusive deal or something?
crude surge
I mean comparing it to Mario is one thing
manic bobcat
weird that it came to switch before PS and exbox. Did nintendo buy an exclusive ...
Nah. In some interview, they just decided that they wanted to make a "Switch" game
crude surge
Naming the genere after Mario and thus limiting what people can do because they are afraid of straying too far from Mario is another
manic bobcat
Whatever that means.
peak zealot
I mean, "roguelike" didn't stop hades from getting made
manic bobcat
Hades is a proper Roguelite.
peak zealot
I don't think "mariolike" would have stopped any platformers from getting made
like, spyro would still exist
crude surge
Yeah but it was really hard for the first rougelike to break away
chrome wharf
true
crude surge
Splenky got a lot of backlash for that
manic bobcat
I mean you are having a problem with the genre, not the game.
crude surge
My problem is the genere being named after a game
manic bobcat
You can hate the name, but Hades is technically a roguelite, and so does Isaac, RoR2, etc.
crude surge
If there was a genere called would like it would be the same problem
robust scaffold
its a easy way to categorise games
peak zealot
I think you have the order of events backwards. "roguelike" as a name didn't stop developers from innovating, a lack of innovation led to a bunch of games being labeled "roguelike" You have the causality backward
brisk trail
it aint even the first but the most well known
royal thistle
I mean roguelike Is very broad so dungeon crawler works better
manic bobcat
Naming it after the first game to do it isn’t
QWERTY is a silly layout. Sometimes things just happen. Embrace it.
manic bobcat
I mean roguelike Is very broad so dungeon crawler works better
But then Diablo and roguelites are pht together
Which is also confusing
crude surge
Yeah but is QWERTY good?
royal thistle
Yes
crude surge
It’s too much effort to change
peak zealot
I mean, diablo and roguelites have a lot in commons
crude surge
So people just deal with it
manic bobcat
It’s too much effort to change
Exactly.
So deal with Roguelite
The same way you do QWERTY
peak zealot
fair enough I guess
crude surge
It would be beneficial if everyone forgot it and changed the name
manic bobcat
I just think it’s dumb
¯_(ツ)_/¯ agreed but I don't care enough. Sorry.
crude surge
But that’s not going to happen
brisk trail
reset history
manic bobcat
Unmake the game
crude surge
This is why I’m working on time travel
manic bobcat
Actually wait don't do that
peak zealot
You should travel back in time and give me a time machine now.
manic bobcat
This is why I’m working on time travel
God speed on your one man crusade.
high island
You could call the genre glblrbl, I'd still play Hades because SGG made it anyway.
Genres are just a rough classification to quickly give you a sense of what a game is about.
manic bobcat
How do I convey the sense of bashing my head against the same wall over and over?
royal thistle
Forgot Eris isn't balanced
high island
How do I convey the sense of bashing my head against the same wall over and over...
Gilgameshlike.
manic bobcat
Forgot Eris isn't balanced
They tried. But then they said screw it and let it go xD.
royal thistle
How do I convey the sense of bashing my head against the same wall over and over...
You make my head ache
crude surge
Did they ever nerf Eris?
manic bobcat
Did they ever nerf Eris?
Well, "yes"
peak zealot
@royal thistle its 75% vs 50%, not that different
brisk trail
rama+talos=ramos
peak zealot
Personally, I prefer hestia when I'm using gun
manic bobcat
rama+talos=ramos
Big brain move
crude surge
<@!592126293303361538> its 75% vs 50%, not that different
It’s the global that makes eris so much better
And that it’s an effect you apply to yourself not the enemy
brisk trail
global is insane
peak zealot
sure. Magnet effect should help all damage. Or eris should only do cast and attack
mostly, eris shjould only do cast and attack
doing all damage is super weird
manic bobcat
Honestly, balancing shouldn't take priority in a single player game.
high island
Eris broken.
manic bobcat
Things can be a bit... OP.
brisk trail
theres other weapons that are bustes too so im ok w it
manic bobcat
And that's fine in my book.
royal thistle
Eris is so op I ran into a lot of hades attack on purpose
peak zealot
IDK, I think the dashes should be balanced. I think the weapons are fine
high island
Balance isn't the end goal, fun is.
royal thistle
And only lost 1 dd
crude surge
balance is nothing without fun
high island
Dashes have been balanced.
manic bobcat
I find Eris fun.
brisk trail
sad le drunk dash
crude surge
and nerfing something in a single player game post launch isn't fun
brisk trail
not rly
manic bobcat
and nerfing something in a single player game post launch isn't fun
The Isaac approach
crude surge
angry Athena noises
royal thistle
I mean, poseidon dash is a mile better than every other dash
Except athena
Athena built diff
manic bobcat
I mean, poseidon dash is a mile better than every other dash
There was a time when people consider it the worst thing in the game.
peak zealot
athena is solid utility, posiedon is just game winning damage by itself
high island
Poseidon also has a trash Attack.
manic bobcat
And Poseidon was the red headed step child of Hades
royal thistle
Zeus Is also really good
peak zealot
I've done runs with posiedon dash as my only primary boon and easily cleaned the game
peak zealot
You need zeus legendary to make zeus dash good
manic bobcat
I just git gud and don't use boons.
peak zealot
IDK, I think if you believe zues dash is even close to the damage output of poseidon dash, you haven't played enough with at least one of them
royal thistle
P a I n
high island
I've done runs with no boons and easily cleaned the game. Tidal Dash is certainly the most prevalent in any heat speedruns, but something inevitably is gonna have top DPS. Other dashes are still seen a lot, though. And high heat is way more varied in dash picks.
royal thistle
Zeus dash is really good even post nerf
manic bobcat
IDK, I think if you believe zues dash is even close to the damage output of pose...
A bit gatekeeping there.
royal thistle
Just cause it's Zeus
peak zealot
aphro, dio, and demeter dashes are all borderline useless. All they do is apply status, and poorly
brisk trail
honestly if you just wanna argue for "can I clear a low heat game w it" you can do that with basicially anything
royal thistle
Aphro applies well enough
manic bobcat
I think Poseidon gets the good rep because speedrunners run it. On higher heat I'm not sure if people value it that much compared to others dashes, at least relatively.
royal thistle
The other 3
crude surge
how is drunken dash bad
peak zealot
I've never seen someone beat hades with just demeter dash.
royal thistle
Bad application
manic bobcat
how is drunken dash bad
The base damage is just soo damn low.
royal thistle
Also that
manic bobcat
I've never seen someone beat hades with just demeter dash.
That a challenge?
brisk trail
yes
crude surge
brb
peak zealot
drunken dash just doesn't do anything. It applies status, and thats useful towards +40% buff, but apart from applying status, the damage doesn't matter
manic bobcat
Cause it's really easy, actually.
high island
Passion Dash has great pom scaling and applies Weak easily enough after they buffed the radius. It's amazing for Heart Rend builds.
peak zealot
@manic bobcat Sure. Do it without wanting to blow your brains out and I'll be impressed
brisk trail
killing freeze ez
high island
Hangover pom scaling is always great.
peak zealot
pasion Dash has mediocre pom scaling at best. Blade dash has 7 times better pom scaling
manic bobcat
I mean if you want dash only runs, blade dash is probably your best bet.
manic bobcat
But the point is, Poseidon isn't the end all be all of dashes.
royal thistle
It was my go to boon when I first started
peak zealot
And I just double checked, pasion dash scales with poms worse than poseidon dash and has lower damage to start with
by a lot
royal thistle
Zeus can easily compete since it has Zeus support
crude surge
you dont use pash dash for damage
royal thistle
Pash dash doesn't knockback too