i want the unfortunate scythe xD
#h1-discussion
slender linden
frosty mountain
nor does varatha, pretty sure
fiery pebble
The weapons are modelled based on the 6 elder gods
With varying levels of effectiveness
frosty mountain
but swords and bows and spears were arms the greeks used
fiery pebble
Poseidon would never use a sword, its too un-radical
The last 2 elder gods are Hestia
Goddess of the hearth
And Demeter
Goddess of Harvest
Hence my theory that we get a Scythe for demeter, and Greek Fire for Hestia
frosty mountain
ya can't really imagine them with weapons really
fiery pebble
Well Hera never had a weapon either
frosty mountain
it's really strange how that's called greek fire
wasn't it the romans that invented it?
twilit pond
I don't really care about accuracy I just had a funny thought that's all =p
fiery pebble
Its artistic license, essentially
frosty mountain
yeah sure I get it
twilit pond
I don't think the last two weapons will be tied to anything/anyone necessarily
just what's fun that's all
fiery pebble
I mean there will be 6 weapons
And weve got 6 elder gods
And the 4 weapons we have are linked to 4 elder gods
So uh, Id be surprised if they werent linked ot the last 2
fiery pebble
They just might go for less obvious choices
Well, each weapon was wielded by one of the gods when killing the titans
Zeus used Aegis, Poseidon used Stygius, Hera used Coronacht and Hades used Varatha
frosty mountain
I see
slender linden
yeaaa
frosty mountain
You think they'll release new weapons in 2 weeks?
Or what do you guys think the content patch will include
fiery pebble
Its plausible
I imagine it will include a new floor, or the start of a new floor
A new weapon and maybe one or two new gods
More realistically, actually
It will include one of the 3 things
frosty mountain
I think it's a bit early for the next floor
fiery pebble
3-5 is my safe bet
6 is my risky guess
We might get some extra "secret" stages, or we might now
slow ravine
3-6 of what, specifically?
fiery pebble
Floors
frosty mountain
I hope we get at least 4
twilit pond
I mean this is literally like 2-3 weeks of development past demo so many things can/will change
fiery pebble
And given how much longer the game will be developed
slow ravine
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
fiery pebble
Im thinking 5 with us visiting Elysium, then the isles of the blessed, then some above-ground floor
twilit pond
development is tought yall
frosty mountain
Did they say they'll do ea for 1.5 year yeah?
twilit pond
tough*
slender linden
they said something like that, yes
frosty mountain
Nobody denies that development is hard
twin mason
i think quite often people underestimate how long some things take, though.
frosty mountain
We're just wishfully speculating
granite tangle
I'm really hoping they implement some kind of death animation for the hydra that isn't just a silhouette fading away
twin mason
it's just a good thing to remind people not to get their expectations to outer space and back ๐
fiery pebble
I mean, its SGG, our expectations are high to begin with
granite tangle
Like a big rock dropping from the ceiling onto it for that myth throwback like the pillars inthe room
twin mason
High for SGG is fine, high for all current video games might be a bit steep for them.
they, again, are a small company.
fiery pebble
They still are better than most big companies
twin mason
sorry, i'm worried sometimes about people giving the devs a hard time, i've seen it with small companies.
fiery pebble
I mean, thats fair enough
twin mason
and then the devs might lose some interest in expanding
fiery pebble
For now I just want the game to be better
slender linden
for this update im expecting start of replacing the placeholders, i wanna see more new shiny art. maybe a song or two. maybe like a half of next stage or something
slender linden
if you expect little to nothing, everything will just pleasantly surprise you
omg yes
twin mason
lol that's a good theory, Risu
slender linden
let Zag sing too @_@
twin mason
maybe he unlocks a memory of his mother
twilit pond
I'm always excited for more art from Jen Zee <_<
twin mason
humming
twin mason
๐
fiery pebble
Well, primarily the combat needs work Id say
twin mason
some balance needs doing, for sure
fiery pebble
Dont think you can improve on anything outside of the combat
slender linden
ye
twin mason
and at least that's not new content, so it's programming, can be sort of powered through a little more
fiery pebble
Not just balancing, honestly
slender linden
the game is mostly combat tho xD
fiery pebble
As it stands, its not gonna work well as a roguelite
twin mason
i think its meant to break some boundaries honestly?
fiery pebble
Because its a bit too, how do you say, "same-y" each run?
twin mason
-shrug-
fiery pebble
Plus we already reach the point where gods sometimes offer you no boons
Beyond the "here is some gold" boon
twin mason
that's probably in the works, to be honest
that very much reads like a placeholder
a sort of... temporary bookend
fiery pebble
Its not just that, though
granite tangle
I feel like the same-y nature will go away if more Gods and boons are added. We have like 6 gods only right now with about 9 or so boons apiece. I'm also looking for things to achieve during runs other than just, well, doing the run
twin mason
then do go on
fiery pebble
The boons arguably change too little
granite tangle
Something like Gungeon's master round construction
fiery pebble
The hammer upgrades are the main source of chain
Change
And even with them, its not all the same
Every bow run and ever shield run feel close to the same
twin mason
i think i might need to step back, my anxiety's acting up ๐
granite tangle
I've only managed to have two different bow and shield runs. Bow is either dash-attack spam or shotgun special. Shield is attack bashing things or just on-hit proc with special.
fiery pebble
To me it feels like its missing the "I wonder what this run will be like" hook that roguelites have
Instead being carried by the solid base gameplay loop
twilit pond
I play SGG games like VNs so I'm not really worried about combat ๐
fiery pebble
Which isnt to say its a bad game, far from it, I still love the game and already have played it a ton
twin mason
i think SSG games are patently unique.
fiery pebble
But the goal is for it to be a roguelite
And I think its currently not succeeding at that goal
twilit pond
But honestly I think the story will be one of the main appeals to Hades. You die and die again but unlock new story bits in the process
twin mason
^
fiery pebble
Man it feels weird to criticize SGG
twilit pond
There are plenty of other rogue likes/lites that focus purely on the gameplay
fiery pebble
Up until now the biggest issue I had is that I didnt fully get the story of Transistor
... I still havent actually
frosty mountain
I mean. It's feedback. I see nothing wrong with it
fiery pebble
I mean it already does the respawning and things change part well
And I like how the story works well with the roguelite elements
The problem is, once you have gotten through the story bits
frosty mountain
If you feel something is off, you should share your thoughts on it
fiery pebble
And have mastered the gameplay to the point that the current content doesnt sufficiently challenge you
You just end up playing less
At least, thats what happened to me
slender linden
that'll probably change once they add limiters
fiery pebble
To a degree
granite tangle
I think the mirror of darkness is what homogenizes the gameplay. At a certain point, you have enough gold and raw damage with 200% flat bonus with dash and backstab, to just overcome any shortcomings in a run. There are much less highs and lows
fiery pebble
Any game can be mastered in the end
slender linden
maybe they'll give you that 'in what way will this run be unique' feel
frosty mountain
I partially agree with you. But remember that many of those problems stem from the fact that the game is not yet feature complete
granite tangle
I'm waiting for more modifiers other than the pretty negligible dark thirst
fiery pebble
What keeps getting you back to roguelites is the wacky nonsense you can get
Take Enter the Gungeon for example
At some point you just dont really die anymore
But its still hilarious when you get some wacky synergy
frosty mountain
Before you bring up gungeon
fiery pebble
Or just some really, really dumb weapons
slender linden
maybe they'll add/change that, the boon mixing
granite tangle
Gungeon felt like one of the less wacky roguelites lol
frosty mountain
Don't you think hades will be more of a dead cells than a gungeon/isaac
granite tangle
since none of the guns melt bosses like in isaac
fiery pebble
True, I suppose it would feel more like Dead Cells
frosty mountain
But anyway
fiery pebble
But Dead Cells still has that same hook
frosty mountain
Does it?
slender linden
and you're not really meant to play A LOT in early access, cuz theres not much to really play xD
twilit pond
Dead Cells is pretty repetitive lol
frosty mountain
I think dead cells does a pretty bad job at creating variety in runs
fiery pebble
I mean its not as good as Gungeon I agree
frosty mountain
It's different style I think
slow ravine
I've been playing a bit of Dead Cells recently. Lack of variety in runs I think comes down to lack of variety in enemy behaviour / lack of defensive capabilities (both of enemies and the player).
frosty mountain
I still prefer the whackyness of gungeon over the deterministic nature of dead cells
fiery pebble
Thats also a fair point
frosty mountain
@slow ravine I also find the shop reroll and recycle mechanics stifle diversity greatly. But they offer consistency. I don't prefer it, but it's not an inherent disadvantage
fiery pebble
Well you can always just ignore that mechanic
slow ravine
Recycle doesn't offer much, particularly on higher difficulty. Though that may have been because it was nerf'd in 1.1
fiery pebble
Anyway to best summarize what I see as the big flaw
slow ravine
I hadn't played before 1.1, and supposedly it tuned a LOT of things down
fiery pebble
Boons dont change your gameplay enough
If you pick a sword, how youll play it depends on the hammer upgrades, and beyond that, you will basically always play the same way
frosty mountain
I agree mostly.
frosty mountain
How would you make the system better?
fiery pebble
There is a few solution Ive liked that Ive seen in feedback
The big one is to have the boons, instead of just giving a consistent damage boost and a consistent additional property, change the way the weapon works a little
With multiple boons being possible on the same attack
slow ravine
Easier said than done, that
fiery pebble
That is true
frosty mountain
Yeah. I think that the thematic core of each god can be explored in more creative ways
fiery pebble
And I cant say Ive come up with a way to properly define what that would entail
slender linden
agreed
frosty mountain
That's a given AE. We're players, consumers. We don't know what we want but we know what we like. We're terrible at proposing solutions but good at identifying problems
fiery pebble
The most I could come up with is letting Zeus cause all attacks to create bouncing bolts that have a part of the damage travel to other enemies nearby and Ares do a DoT effect on all enemies hit
frosty mountain
Although suggestions are pretty fun to come up with and share
fiery pebble
On a sidenote, this is actually part of why I like Athenas dodge upgrade
Because it doesnt just give you additional properties, it changes how the dodge as a whole works
Without being bad like the Surges
twilit pond
I don't mind repetitive combat I just want more unique story events scattered over the course
But that's just me
frosty mountain
That's bound to come
slow ravine
I definitely agree that most boons have minimal effect on playstyle. Aphrodite seems like it promotes aggression the most (you take less damage), Ares' should be hit and run (which would only be worth it if it did significantly more damage to kill things on a delay), Poseidon's are significantly different (though the effect is the same on all of his boons more or less), Zeus' seem like they should be for crowd control, etc.
I think part of the problem here is actually with the enemies, though.
fiery pebble
Not ... exactly?
The enemies already give value to the properties you get
The problem is that the properties are largely incidental
They are something thats just there sometimes
I guess part of the problem is actually the hammer
slow ravine
I would say that boon properties will always seem incidental if enemies stay as hordes to slaughter.
fiery pebble
The hammer upgrades your skills and changes them, if boons also did it, the hammer would be devalued
slow ravine
Shield bubbles change that, but only in a binary "kill x before y" way.
fiery pebble
Maybe the hammer should do something different to free up space?
But at this point its just entirely abstract
frosty mountain
I don't think the current system is as unsalvagavle
I believe it can work, given the fact that you can't combine boons for the same part of your kit
fiery pebble
Actually that is part of the problem for me
frosty mountain
I think that, as you suggest, it should augment your gameplay in a more severe way
fiery pebble
Poms of Power are also part of the problem
They encourage going all-in on one part of your kit
Which takes the already self-limiting system and limits it further
slow ravine
That's even true of rare/epic boons, though
frosty mountain
I know how you feel and how the current balance plays out but do they?
granite tangle
Eh, I actually like being able to pick a direction for a build early and lean into it.
slow ravine
The game definitely encourages you to use a single skill with the way scaling works, yeah
frosty mountain
Rare epic boons are the ones I have a big problem with.
fiery pebble
I mean having a focus of a build is one thing
But being a one-note build is another
frosty mountain
Don't poms give you linear bonuses though?
tepid orchid
They do
frosty mountain
They do I'm pretty sure
slow ravine
IIRC all scaling is geometric.
+30% from poms for most boons.
(there are some exceptions)
tepid orchid
But the thing with poms is that they let you focus one specific skill to a high level and then just use that skill for everything
fiery pebble
Yup
tepid orchid
Poms are absolutely not geometric - they add a fixed amount (of damage or percent or whatever) per pom, differing based on what the boon is
fiery pebble
I get the idea behind poms
But maybe they should just boost everything instead of only one thing
frosty mountain
I think it's ad tskami says
fiery pebble
Oh, yeah
slow ravine
Let me look up poms again, it's the thing I never got around to doing before the holidays anyway
hexed smelt
if it was +30% per pom then my heartbreak strike should have ended up absolutely broken as all hell earlier bc i got to level 7
fiery pebble
10%/15%/20% for Aphro, Poseidon and Artemis each
Pre-nerf Aphro was 30%
On attacks anyway
Im not 100% on whether or not it changes with the special upgrade ones
frosty mountain
And doesn't that mathematically disincentivise you from piling up boosts on a single boon?
tepid orchid
It might be 50% of the base value of a common rarity thing
Well, no, because you can only use one attack at once
frosty mountain
Fair but, that's too abstract a way to approach this
fiery pebble
Well no
slow ravine
@frosty mountain Not really, because you can only really use one ability at a time, possibly with dodge (and some like Artemis' cast). Your primary and your special compete for use time
fiery pebble
The boost is constant
slow ravine
So you should stack damage on one, in general
fiery pebble
Each Pom increases each part by the same amount
Stacking more on one is just more efficient
tepid orchid
I'm not sure that's true? Consider if, instead of getting Pommes, you just got more blessings - you would be more incentivized to use different abilities, since they're all going to be somewhat good from boons
fiery pebble
Especially since you can only use one attack at a time
frosty mountain
That's not very real an argument. Dodge boons provide you value. You dodge all the time
twilit pond
what is happening
slow ravine
That's my point on dodge; leveling dodge boons isn't bad, even if done alongside primary or special
But levelling both primary AND special is almost always not useful
Which is exacerbated by hammer upgrades affecting only one or the other
frosty mountain
I can see special and lmb being mutually exclusive, but I'll have to disagree about the rest
Excluding casting with bow
fiery pebble
Well the problem with upgrading a dodge boon
slow ravine
Arty dash is the problem
fiery pebble
Is that their main pull, aside from the Zeus and Ares one, is their utility
And the upgrades dont affect the utility
tepid orchid
I agree with dash boons working alongside other boons, and that the mutual exclusivity is mostly confined to attack / special / cast
frosty mountain
Then doesn't the problem lie in the boons themselves and not the poms?
tepid orchid
Well, kind of
fiery pebble
I suppose the problem lies in the fact that the progression as we currently have it is better suited for a linear game than a roguelite
tepid orchid
Poms allow you to focus power into single abilities moreso than boons, with a handful of exceptions (like Hunter Dash)
slow ravine
I don't really agree with that, it's definitely meant as a roguelite
tepid orchid
Special also get less use, I think, because no current fight really requires ranged attacks to work
slow ravine
I don't see how it would better fit a linear game
fiery pebble
Your power increases vertically rather than horizontally
Which I probably will have to elaborate on
slow ravine
Also worth mentioning, and as anyone who's played Dead Cells or Dark Souls or any game with multiple weapon slots can attest, there's not a whole lot of synergy between attacks and specials on the weapons.
fiery pebble
Yeah
tepid orchid
Well, Dead Cells is a bit different, I think
slow ravine
A bit, but not a lot.
fiery pebble
Doesnt even have to be compared to other games
Transistor also had more synergy between skills
tepid orchid
In that a lot of what you want is status weapon + modifier with +damage based on status
slow ravine
Transistor was definitely in a good place for ability synergy.
tepid orchid
Some Transistor abilities were maybe a little bit too synergistic, lol
frosty mountain
laughs in void
fiery pebble
Ah yes, void
slow ravine
There were a couple abilities that were a a bit too good together, sure
slow ravine
It was void. You could basically stunlock the last boss and nohit without much difficulty.
fiery pebble
Looking at you, Sweet Surrender
tepid orchid
Purge(Breach, Crash) and Void(Purge, Tap) were both really really strong
slow ravine
And of course, crazy high damage
frosty mountain
anyway, I don't think transistor lends itself as a good comparison
fiery pebble
I think it does
Imagine Transistor, except what build you got was randomized
With you having little impact on it
Thatd be neat
void vigil
i dont think transistor is a fair comparison because transistor is a finished game
tepid orchid
But in terms of synergy between abilities, that largely was just because:
- You had damage amplification buffs, which probably wouldn't work as specials in Hades
- You had Turn(), which meant you had a Jaunt() ability that would be your only usable ability sometimes
- Some enemies were impossible to use melee attacks against without Turn()
Which all meant you needed a variety of abilities
fiery pebble
I mean true, Im not saying we need a perfect copy of Transistor
I like being able to understand the story
slow ravine
@void vigil By 'comparison' I don't think anyone here is insinuating they expect Hades to be as complete as Transistor. They/we are talking about abilities and options in roguelites and other games.
fiery pebble
But Transistor had good elements that should be considered
frosty mountain
like what
I don't see it
I know it was great synergy wise, I just don't see how any of it works in hades
tepid orchid
^
frosty mountain
we got a couple of systems in play. maybe we'll get some more in the future
I think it's best if we discussed what we have in our hands
fiery pebble
The part where you had your base skills change drastically when modifying them with another function
frosty mountain
that's basically boons for hades. We'd just like them feeling a bit more unique and impactful
slow ravine
Yeah, they just acted as boons when added to base abilities. But they definitely did have more significant effects.
But because everything had a long activation time, and/or a cooldown...
(or turn cost)
I agree that you can't directly compare them to, say, primary attack boons
Which can't really be as drastic
frosty mountain
how do yall feel if the design space of cooldowns was explored a bit more
I know people have various views on cooldowns
fiery pebble
Its a tricky thing
slow ravine
Cooldowns are really common nowadays. I kinda like them in single player games. I can definitely see why you might avoid them in a game like Hades, too, though.
fiery pebble
On one hand, cooldowns do allow for multiple attacks to coexist
On the other hand, they can also slow down the fun
frosty mountain
anyone here playing warframe?
that's a game where you'll hardly ever see cooldowns
anywhere
and that's one of the reasons the game is so fun
but there have been some cooldowns implemented recently that have been very well recieved
fiery pebble
Warframe also has a resource system
frosty mountain
the point I'm getting at is that it's a matter of implementation
fiery pebble
And some of the weakest enemy design in gaming in general
frosty mountain
that's true but doesn't take away from my point
fiery pebble
Fair, fair
I mean it could work without cooldowns
We would just need to have a reason to use more than one attack
frosty mountain
having a resource is a big deal but that's most of the time a no factor in wf. but enough of that
what if some boons added cooldowns to certain of your abilities for a really big payoff
letting you repeat your spear spin a couple of times before being locked away for a little bit
the example being completely out the top of my head and probably horrible
twilit pond
could work with special and cast I think
fiery pebble
Would certainly require fine-tuning
Im more interested in having the 2 skills synergize more closely
fiery pebble
Attack and special moreso
Hypothetical example I made up a while ago
What if you could throw your spear, then do a spin attack on its new location by pressing attack
Obviously intersects with the dash thing
tepid orchid
I would love to have boons that added additional abilities with cooldowns
fiery pebble
So it wasnt a great example, but I couldnt come up with much better things
tepid orchid
But that might be outside of the intended scope of boons
fiery pebble
Or maybe something combo-wise
frosty mountain
that sounds cool
fiery pebble
Where you do different attacks depending on whether you press the square or triangle key
frosty mountain
what if
fiery pebble
But thats a pretty radical departure
frosty mountain
that was the poseidon boon of special
maybe not poseidon
doesn't really tie in any current god thematic
but stuff like this is what I think we're looking for
your example could work with a mobility centered theme in mind
fiery pebble
Hermes?
fiery pebble
I do wish I could offer more constructive criticism than "I dont think the current system works very well in the long run"
frosty mountain
it's the best we can do though
telling the folks what you don't like and why
there's a famous quote from a magic the gathering developers that people often mention
it says that players are good at finding problems but are not good at providing solutions
half surge
It's frustrating when people forget that not having a solution doesn't invalidate criticism
Also a game being free / in beta
fiery pebble
Sure, but having a suggestion for the solution also helps contextualize the problem
Even if the solution itself isnt actually a good one
frosty mountain
fair enough
clever basin
I think it likely we see another sort of upgrade item like Hammer that does something different from boons/hammer. I just can't really imagine what that might be ATM. The other thing from a variety standpoint is all those open weapon stands in the courtyard and relic slots from folks we haven't met.
twin mason
i feel like they're definitely planning on filling those slots
the positioning of the weapons didn't make it seem like they were the only ones
or they might have done more of a weapon rack
fiery pebble
Oh we will get 2 more weapons for sure
And we have good indication of what they could be
twin mason
i think there's three slots?
no two
sorry, brain wasn't giving me the right image
it wasn't accounting for the weapon you have ๐
clever basin
- Bag full of all the keys you don't need for anything else;
- Orpheus's harp
twin mason
LEL
sorry, i'm imagining you wielding a bag full of keys like a grocery bag of catfood
and its just
making me giggle
clever basin
Additional Gods speculation:
- Jesus
- Abrahamic God (old testament)
- Goku
- Shiva (from Final Fantasy, not Hinduism)
- Shiva (this time from Hinduism)
- Giygas (from Earthbound)
#GameDesign
twin mason
lol wut are you on about
clever basin
Voiced by Idris Elba.
half surge
Omg yes
clever basin
Sorry, should this be in Spoiler chat?
twilit pond
I'm up for anyone and anything voiced by Idris Elba tbh
twilit pond
no
half surge
If it was a documentary, sure
alpine stratus
WHERE did you hear about snapchat goddog idris elba. thats TOP SECRET, we keep TELLING people not to post datamined spoilers!!!!
half surge
Sorry ๐
twin mason
hehe
half surge
Here is a conciliatory hotdog 
clever basin
The samples where he offers Zag a massage are intriguing.
clever basin
Powershot locked in for me when I listened more to the sound than watched the indicator. Might just spend a little bit before next run beating up on skelly to get the feel.
pliant tulip
Why won't it let me post in feedback? I wanted to mention that after unleashing a shot with the bow, the character can get stuck in the bow fired position for a second or two. It's not the usual after shot recovery time which is closer to half a second. That and I noticed some odd aiming lag during the bomb skeleton fight and the room after. The cursor would get stuck and not move responsively. It cleared up but should be mentioned regardless.
Besides that, I'm curious if Nyx and Artemis' character designs are still under development, or if they're going to stick with the generic no face hood look. Artemis is my favorite goddess, so it was disappointing to see her with such a stock design where as the other Gods have so much more flavor in theirs.
pliant tulip
Gotcha
hexed smelt
also, the portrait thing is covered in #hades-faq
Are the robed character portraits final? No. These are an example of work-in-progress content weโll update during Early Access.
pliant tulip
Ok thank you
earnest finch
I love this game and I'm a huge fan of Bastion and transistor I will hope that you guys put this on the switch like you have those other two games I just think they would fit so well on there the portability is perfect for this game. not that I mind playing on my computer it's just a wish. keep up the great work
clever basin
I honestly don't mind the robed character portraits. It'll be jarring when they get updated.
small lake
it really fits Nyx but I really want to see what the rest of the characters look like
peak kiln
is hades ever going to be available on steam?
olive jungle
Once it's finished, probably
torpid mist
once it's done with early access, yes
olive jungle
During early access it will only be available on Epic
peak kiln
thx
twin mason
anyone else not like the way they voiced Nyx?
void vigil
personally i really like her voice
brazen stone
quick question about the feedback channel
what's the difference between thumb down and the red X
vote wise?
small lake
"undecided" I guess?
olive jungle
you can see what the symbols mean in the pinned post
brisk trail
I am new here i just want to say i am in love with the shopkeeper and the "i feel fabulous" quote from aphrodite boons
dire bridge
are we aloud to discuss aspects in game like how to's and things like that?
if so are you able to get inside locked rooms on the lefts side of house of hades?
olive jungle
absolutely! there's no press/streaming embargo or anything
#hades-faq
oh
uhh
not right now, no
probably future content
dire bridge
oh ok solid
and dammit lol just got my first clear of last room, i love the reason for not being able to go further thats awesome haha
alpine stratus
bold of you to assume he doesnt sleep right in his chair
dire bridge
and @olive jungle thanks for the heads up! ๐
alpine stratus
the real prank is tying his moustache to the armrest when hes snoozing
small lake
I mean he clearly naps elsewhere, otherwise Zag wouldn't have been able to root through all of his important documents in the middle of the night
Oh I like the way you think
coat the ends of his mustache in beef juice so cerberus keeps tugging on them
alpine stratus
no thats dangerous for cerberus! long strings can be terrible to a pets digestive system
small lake
you're right, gotta think of the good boy
charred yoke
lol
olive jungle
here's a fun pasttime: figuring out how greek heroes are related to each other via the gods
achilles was, for example, odysseus' second cousin once removed (via zeus).
charred yoke
How is Charon related to everyone?
olive jungle
not exactly a greek hero
but he's apparently the son of erebus
oh! he's hypnos' brother
olive jungle
yes exactly that's why it's so fun to break out the relationship charts
fiery pebble
What a shocking revelation
olive jungle
helen is achilles' grand-aunt
fiery pebble
Technically a lot of people in greece were thunderstruck
twin mason
-snort-
small lake
That they were
twin mason
yo ucould say a lot of people were thunder..... struck...
-cough-
but i digress.
zeus is a special madman
small lake
basically every greek tragedy starts with "Unfortunately, Zeus was a bit bored"
pliant tulip
Am I going to have to get the meme image?
barren granite
Is somone here using TTS O_o
small lake
what sort of sociopath uses TTS
twin mason
TTS?
barren granite
Ok something's wrong because it's narrating this entire conversation and I haven't been in this channel in days
small lake
Text to Speech
twin mason
oh
O-o
that sounds aweful
almost accidentally typed aweosme and that would have been categorically incorrect
barren granite
I was trying to fogure out who "vellabella" is because it's narrating you and I was going throguh all my channels trying to find where it's coming from XD
small lake
check your discord settings, there's a TTS notification option
barren granite
Yeah I think it's off now
small lake
medorra
barren granite
Wewlad that was exciting
fiery pebble
And now you left Vella
twin mason
lol i'm sorry
fiery pebble
Speechless
olive jungle
anyways
hades!
twin mason
๐ฎ
barren granite
It's not you because there was two different channels going off
small lake
and perhaps lock your computer when you walk away from it, sounds like somebody was messing with you
barren granite
Anyway sorry I figured out the issue now XD
olive jungle
which came first, hades' moustache or the symbol of the house of hades
twin mason
....
olive jungle
as in, did hades grow his moustache to look like the symbol
or did he make the symbol and then think "hm i want this as a moustache"
twin mason
... oh.
fiery pebble
I imagine he modelled the symbol after his mustache
small lake
Hades was so proud of his mustache he forces everyone else to wear it too
fiery pebble
In fact, I imagine he was born with the mustache
alpine stratus
(sees the thing on my house) well i know what im telling the barber
twin mason
can anyone really imagine Hades as a lad?
small lake
I can only imagine a shorter version of him
fiery pebble
I imagine he looked the same just smaller
small lake
just as burly, but like 4 feet tall
twin mason
now that i know they're placeholders, the hoods look hilarious
small lake
Like if Tyler1 had hair
twin mason
i imagine he looked rather like Zag actually
or that Zag looks rather like he did
in all seriousnesss
alpine stratus
zag has the moustache but shaves every morning in rebelliousness
every morning its back again
in full
small lake
no wonder we're not allowed to sleep
small lake
fiery pebble
Well, this has been ribbiting, but its time for me to go to sleep
twin mason
sleep is for the weeeeeak
twin mason
lol
charred yoke
The Bone Hydra has bones shaped like Hades mustache, so Hades copied it
twin mason
-snort-
small lake
hades looks at the bone hydra and says
"What can I do to be more intimidating than that?"
"GOT IT"
"Walrus"
charred yoke
Is Meg wearing lipstick or are her lips naturally that color?
alpine stratus
yes
small lake
it's a special dye made from a mixture of Pomegranates and the blood of her enemies
charred yoke
Where do they get all the pomegranates? Whereโs the tree orchard grove?
alpine stratus
they get them from the grocery store
charred yoke
What they do with the garbage? Throw it in the blood river?
One tree produces all those pomegranates? One?
charred yoke
Everything in Hades is dead... So how is there a live pomegranate tree?
alpine stratus
its more important we have a tasty pomegranate than the way it gets to the table
glass horizon
Hades is the first early access game I've really followed. Not used to eagerly awaiting new content patches lol
charred yoke
Is Zag old enough to drink wine?
prisma wind
There is no drinking age in the setting 
But also, if there were, then I'm certain he would be well above it
charred yoke
How old are Meg and Zag?
prisma wind
In the mythology, Zagreus was able to change into animal forms... I wonder if that will ever come into play in Hades
twin mason
THATD BE SO MUCH YES
that's a power hades had, wasn't it?
he turned into a serpant i think
prisma wind
It's a power common to many Greek gods
charred yoke
So if Zag escapes Hades, is he still a god or will he turn mortal?
prisma wind
Definitely still a god
charred yoke
Can gods be killed by other gods?
prisma wind
Also, the wikipedia article on Zagreus is fascinating (though don't expect anything you read there to directly relate to the game)
charred yoke
So can a god just hang out in the mortal world like a normal person? Is Zag going to escape to the topside to open a bakery or something?
Sell pomegranate toast to hipsters?
prisma wind
In theory? Yes. But Greek gods tend to be kind of petty in the mythology and are always messing with each other, so I don't think it would last without interference
alpine stratus
i would like to buy pomegranate toast from zag
prisma wind
charred yoke
Sell Blood lattes and centaur heart tartar
prisma wind
Centaur heartar?
alpine stratus
red velvet latte
charred yoke
lol
alpine stratus
ares supplies the blood
charred yoke
lol x2
proven briar
how many floors are there currently?
void vigil
2
proven briar
@ . @
minor pecan
<spoilers>
charred yoke
zero
tired glacier
Just started playing Hades today. Love the combat!
small lake
Wait until you meet Sir Bitesalot
tired glacier
H M M
fast kite
hey guys! i might be stupid but i didn't find any info on the website. is it co-op online?
minor pecan
@fast kite it's a single player game, there's some more info here: https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520449288103395328/521863879849017344
Hades is a single-player game. We have no plans to add multiplayer, as we have been building the design and narrative of Hades with a solo experience in mind.
co-op would be interesting though ๐ค
small lake
imagine a second player being able to drop in and take control of a boss to mess with you
clever basin
I could see a daily seed time trial option with leaderboard. Like Slay the Spire, or a few others.
fast kite
@minor pecan thanks! it would haha imagine
tired glacier
Co-op would be amazing!
prisma wind
Welcome, MisterDiesel! 
tired glacier
Thank you! Glad to be here!
marble elk
i want local co-op for the sole purpose of messing up the camera and getting my friend killed
because I am a good person
prisma wind
That's always the worst (best?) part of couch co-op games
If you were dedicated enough you could probably mod it into the game
marble elk
good married friends of mine make it a point to turn co-op games into vs games. its hilarious to watch
prisma wind
I think the last screen-lock couch co-op game I played was Castle Crashers (or at least, the last memorable one)
twin mason
i think... a lot of couples do that, to be fair
charred yoke
H M M
marble elk
wouldn't know - don't know many gamers irl ๐ ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
pliant tulip
What's with the massive jump in scale in unlocking the next heart with Artemis? I gave her two Ambrosias and got her hidden codex information, but now it says I have to get her Boon 100 times to get to the next level.
prisma wind
Those are unrelated (at the moment, anyway). The locked hearts indicate content not currently implemented in the game
You can only get 2 hearts for each Olympian god right now
olive jungle
The high thresholds for conversations are most likely there as part of the early access
you can unlock them, if you spend the time, but i think for now they're there to stretch content
pliant tulip
Hmm, so there's the possibility of unlocking the next level then...
Well, I guess I'll find out what happens when I do.
Thanks for the answer. Back into the pits of hell.
prisma wind
Hmmm, I always thought those were hard locks, but you can actually remove them by completing the boon requirement?
prisma wind
Oh, ok, you had me worried for a second there ๐
Thought I was missing out on something 
shut crest
Locked hearts are 100% locked until new content patches
I unlocked everything and am at a point were only hades had conversations open. Only 1k to make it clear 
850 or so left right now
prisma wind
That's a lot of runs at 1 conversation (at most) per run
void vigil
do you have all the god entries as well?? :0
shut crest
Yeah
shut crest
Yeah 
brisk trail
Really late but that comment about another player being a boss could be some fun
Crawl has a similar setup
Where the other 3 players in the run will all control different parts of the boss
celest pagoda
does boon we get depends on what weapon we use?
olive jungle
Nope! Only Daedalus Hammers change by weapon
small lake
more or less
celest pagoda
TIL if u get artemis boon while using arrow, the light will become green
small lake
if you think of your main abilities as equipment slots of a sort you can dictate what boons you pick up from a given god
Attack/Special/Cast/Dash
picking up an attack boon from one god will remove all attack boons from the other god's pools
prisma wind
Yup, all the gods apply a colour to your attacks
small lake
I like poseidon's best, all crisp and splashy
small lake
no
just one god's boon on a given ability
so say you pick up Tempest Strike from Poseidon, you won't be able to get Divine Strike from Athena
prisma wind
One god per Attack / Cast / Special / Dash
small lake
but you can use this information to tailor your builds somewhat
taking an attack boon from Athena or Poseidon and then refusing to pick up a dash boon from anyone until you find Artemis guarantees she'll have Hunter's Dash because her base pool got trimmed down to 3
cloud delta
hey mates
can someone please explain what bloodgates do? I can't figure it out
olive jungle
you sacrifice some health for extra darkness and the chance to skip a chamber
i think.
cloud delta
huh
bit it also has something in it I think
like gold stuff
brazen lake
how long until the next content patch fellas?
olive jungle
11 days! it's on the startup screen
brazen lake
yeah i know its on the startup screen, but im at school rn and couldnt check
oh and uhm thanks before i forget
twin mason
I wish there was a way... like i wish each weapon showed your statistics with that weapons
so how many chambers you've cleared and such
cloud delta
is there a way to tell what chamber is it btw? The number I mean
twin mason
i wish
that's another thing i wish there was
a way to tell how many chambers you've gone through
while you're doing it
btw Evilpanties is probably the best username ever.
cloud delta
thanks hehe
yeah that could help a lot
ties into my bloodgate question
just how exactly does it skip chambers
if that's what it does
i guess you can check manually by counting the number yourself khhh
shut crest
Is there an estimated time at the 15th when the update will drop?
olive jungle
nope
shut crest
Damn need to know that ๐ค
tardy patio
Question:
When you pick a keepsake that says 'that god's blessings are stronger'
Does that mean that you have a guaranteed Rare/Epic
Or that the figures are better, e.g. it's not +35% dmg, but +55
shut crest
the figures are randomized in its rarity. i think you cant change that
blessings are stronger means the options from this god are upgraded. one of the options will be higher in rarity.
that is what I think iirc all of my runs
I still had runs where I had normal rarity for one of the three options even with a keepsake
tardy patio
figures are randomized in rarity? I don't get that one "D
shut crest
so epic attack boon from athena can range from 84% to 89%
you can not affect that number at all with anything right now
you can only increase the chance that the rare attack boon will be an epic one
tardy patio
What's the cap on the +% chance for rare/epic boon?
void vigil
50 for rare and 25 for epic
void vigil
yeah I refunded all my darkness to put it in rare chance and I was like
It just keeps going
tardy patio
that's.... 7500 darkness, right there
void vigil
yep
humble pollen
5k I think?
tardy patio
oh, yes, 5, correct
half surge
2.5k for rare
copper valve
hello hades is in spanish now?
half surge
2.5k for epic
tardy patio
I have just over 2500 on my save
tardy patio
I've just started playing with whichever weapon has dark thirst on it
humble pollen
Solid strat
tardy patio
And if there is no boon, I usually take darkness over key or ambrosia
humble pollen
Also good, youโll fill up on the latter 2 a lot faster
tardy patio
2701 darkness, to be exact
tardy patio
depends which rooms you chose, for sure
I don't get it
why do some... columns in asphodel drop crazy amounts of cash?
shut crest
doesnt it only look like they drop crazy amounts and in reality it is something like 10 gold ?
tardy patio
I haven't been paying that much attention ๐
also - in a trial of gods room, does it matter which good you choose first
blessing wise, I mean
humble pollen
Yeah
Enemies get a buff from the god you didnโt choose
Always choose Athena if sheโs an option, Athena buff on enemies is such a pain
Never pick Poseidon, his buff just sends them hurtling off into lava ๐
shut crest
it depends if you want a specific boon from a god and you have a lot of boon modifications open, use the one you dont want first and block special/cast/dash watever you dont need so the chance of getting the one you want from the other god is higher
humble pollen
Not that Iโve noticed
tardy patio
darn
shut crest
nope
humble pollen
Unless you got the Charon buff
tardy patio
I have ares poseidon now
humble pollen
Of next boon being boosted
humble pollen
Then yeah no difference
humble pollen
Solid plan
And you get to enjoy fighting enemies with Poseidon buff
Which is generally entertaining
tardy patio
Everybody's going surfing, surf in Asphodel ๐
humble pollen
๐
humble pollen
Very short range tho
tardy patio
15*6 is... 90
humble pollen
So thatโs something to keep in mind
tardy patio
Might give it a go
this run does not look promising anyway ๐
oh, dear, it really is short range indeed
at least you always have your cast near by
shut crest
im going to do a shotgun run later
if you get the decreased drop thing from artemis it is kinda good
but it needs poms to onehit enemies otherwise you will get a lot of hits
tardy patio
yes, it doesn't do that much dmg
willow jacinth
I wish aphro's cast had a bit higher range, when it's like this it feels kinda weak, I don't know if it actually is though
tardy patio
it is ๐
supple fulcrum
a few days ago I had a bug where I defeated megaera but she didn't drop the reward so I was stuck at her stage. not sure if it's a common bug or where i should report it.
alpine stratus
F10 bug reporter please!
minor flare
My internet has been out the past few days. Is there ANY way to play Hades offline? ?
fiery pebble
You should be able to just launch it
minor flare
I can't open Epic Games without internet. I get an error message. I was hoping somehow I could go to a cafe redownload the game some fancy way, and play offline
fiery pebble
Hm, thats strange
It was my impression you didnt need the launcher at all
Apparently not yet
minor flare
=(
small lake
check where the game is installed, there will be a file labeled Hades.exe that lets you run the game without the launcher
default is C:/Program Files/Epic Games
jade iris
is this game on alpha ?
small lake
yes
jade iris
minor flare
@small lake I found it, thank you so much! !
small lake
minor flare
Has there been any updates\patches since Dec. 19th?
minor flare
Thanks a bunch
slender linden
thank you it's perfect
stone bison
What's the deal with the content update? I think when I played before Christmas it said it would be Dec 30 or something, but I logged in again and now it says 11 days or something. Did it get pushed back?
hexed smelt
nope, it's always said it would be on the 15th
stoic bay
I'm guessing you saw "next big update in 30 days" and parsed it as "december 30th"
slender linden
you probably also missed the announcement that they're taking a holiday break. no one would schedule an update during the holiday break xD
exotic olive
just bought the game 
cloud delta
I killed the hydra yeeeeeeah
on the 27th run with 200 curse spear
feels great)
topaz lake
how often have you gotten a gift from aphrodite?
slender linden
@solid merlin i think they added the conversation counter in the codex similar to how transistor helped you mark what exactly you need to do to unlock all the info
you gotta judge this early acces also based on how their previous games work, some things might just be from habit
solid merlin
Yeah, thats true
cloud delta
btw
codex update sound effect reminds me heavily of morrowinds eating stuff sound
solid merlin
Just a thought, though, if they wanted true, face value feedback
slender linden
thats fair
imo the counter helps keep track of time, in a way. if there was no indicator you'd have to check every run to see if there's anything new
this way you roughly know when next to check xD
solid merlin
Yeah its a give and take
Should you talk to people because their conversation is interesting and compelling? Or because of a number?
slender linden
at certain point they run out of fresh text. i die a lot
but i like to check up on people so i suppose for me its just a neat routine xD
that, and their voices are nice
prisma wind
I see that Bad doctor has gotten Gud
And yes, Dusa is adorable in everything she does 
night turret
I was wondering about her...
I remember a myth, but arent you supposed to... I dunno get yourself together in death?
small lake
might have something to do with Perseus taking her head as a trophy instead of leaving it with her body
it could also be a horrible, horrible pun
because she's the head maid
prisma wind
Or it's just artistic license and doesn't necessarily have to follow strict rules ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
slender linden
Maid Dusa
prisma wind
Who are you and what have you done with Dr. Badtouch?!
small lake
Maid Dusa
hey I only get angry at the puns because this is the first time I've met my match in someone
night turret
Well, Thank you doctor. I dented my table with that first pun
prisma wind
I take great pride in my status as a word criminal
Or as I prefer to call it, a lexiconvict
small lake
night turret
A Head Maid... Gods damn it. It's so horrible...and it will stick
small lake
happy to be of service :3c
fiery pebble
At this point, the rest of Dusa is "just some body she used to know"
prisma wind
She should try some volumizing shampoo
'cause it's supposed to give you extra body
But when it comes to being the favourite character in Hades, she's way a head of the game
fiery pebble
Oh my god, I just realized the song works even better
"You didnt have to cut me off"
This is the rare and elusive double pun
prisma wind
This joke exists in a binary pun system
night turret
Can you post here Darkest Dungeon afflictions?
fiery pebble
Head-canon, the rest of Dusas body found a horse and started terrorizing some poor townfolk
Its the headless horsewoman
prisma wind
If it somehow directly relates to Hades, sure. Otherwise it belongs in #off-topic-discussion
fiery pebble
I aim to please
slender linden
thank you for this asdfg
ok i read the rest and you made it even better after that double pun
ur a genius
small lake
I just thought of Dusa in a top hat and now I have a mission
careful, that'll get you a paddlin' from the mods
olive jungle
ooh thanks for pointing it out! it sure will ๐
night turret
F
olive jungle
please behave yourselves, i'm trying to enjoy my saturday morning.
fiery pebble
Aw
small lake
๐ซ
fiery pebble
Sounds like a hatastrophy
small lake
My quality standards may be low but they exist!
night turret
Hmm...Can't you dress up individual snakes tho?
fiery pebble
Just put hearts, clubs, diamonds and spades on them
And youll have snakes in suits
Youre Dr. Gudtouch, not Dr. Guntouch though
night turret
Now I need to froget an image of Dusa with Solid-Snake-in-a-tuxedo for a hair.
small lake
I will touch whatever I need to in order to eliminate my enemies
fiery pebble
Imagine if, when reporting after cleaning the rafters, all of her snakes said "Kept you waiting, huh"
night turret
Awesome.
And if you have Duster equipped, sometimes Zag gets fulton extraction on death
fiery pebble
And then he bonks his head on every piece of roof sticking out
night turret
Weeeell he's kinda dead at that point, and it sounds amusing enough for a Bid Dad to get Icarus some flight premissons.
opal viper
I wondered, are the enemies and character animated on 3D ?
hexed smelt
technically yes
olive jungle
The character models and such were all modeled and animated in 3D, but they're pre-rendered and saved as bink files
so the game isn't rendering them in real time
clever basin
Ah that's a good performance enhancing trick. They LOOK really good.
opal viper
That would be very time consuming if all were animated in 2d
clever basin
Yeah, and also tough on lower-end machines to 3-d render as much on-screen things as are happening.
clever basin
Prog rock.
prisma wind
So what we really need is an in-game jukebox, but not for the actual OST? 
night turret
Spooky scary skeletons.... I will take myself out
fiery pebble
We need an in-game jukebox for the actual OST
prisma wind
The Hydra is all about that chamber music
slender linden
no thats Skelly
fiery pebble
But we also need "official" playlists for all the characters
slender linden
yes to all of that
fiery pebble
Well, in case of Zag its just the Muse discography
small lake
nah Zag listens to Shinedown
hexed smelt
i kinda wish orpheus would be this game's version of the white lute
marble elk
im ok with that outcome @small lake
night turret
Ain't he already?
fiery pebble
Nah, Muse is perfect for Zag
night turret
Butt like at max booze?
fiery pebble
The right sound, themes of rebellion and making your own path
slender linden
he can listen to more stuff than just muse, cmon
fiery pebble
Poseidon listens to Eurobeat
small lake
I can prove my point with one song
clever basin
The Hydra listens to the Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance OST.
marble elk
which character/enemy would best fit dubstep i wonder
night turret
RULES OF NATURE
fiery pebble
Eh, I dont think the Hydra has much to do with Memes
prisma wind
Slamdancers, obviously RE: dubstep
marble elk
๐
fiery pebble
Ok, sidenote: Rules of Nature is the weakest of the good songs of MGRR
Nah, Pests
Annoying, all over the place, and unpleasant
clever basin
I don't think weirdly clinical Japanese speed metal is meme-ey.
slender linden
omg xD
fiery pebble
Were talking about the game that had Monsoon in it
prisma wind
Numbskulls seem like Static-X fans
fiery pebble
Numbskulls are all about Nirvana
clever basin
Those stupid blue crystals listen to Nickelback.
fiery pebble
Other songs challenge them too much with actually distinguishable lyrics
Nah, the blue Crystals are MC Hammer fans
clever basin
Okay now stop... having fun.
This may be the most "technically" on-topic I have seen this room. ๐
night turret
Main ones or Dmc?
slender linden
probably not entirely fitting but sound of silence but the disturbed version for Zag. because memes.
small lake
Eyyyy, Disturbed
clever basin
Have we established Meg listens to the Cure?
clever basin
Maybe some The Animals?
alpine silo
Have there been any news regarding the new patch, yet?
prisma wind
If you mean a small patch before the major update? No news that I've heard
spring cipher
fiery pebble
Nope
fiery pebble
Let us hug Meg in the next patch
prisma wind
Maybe Meg doesn't want to be hugged
clever basin
Let us be turned down by Meg more.
prisma wind
Maybe she just wants to sit in a warm bubble bath with a glass of wine for a change instead of constantly dealing with Zagreus' BS
clever basin
I would also like if Dusa's attraction shifted into more of a fatal attraction, stalking direction.
fiery pebble
Everyone needs a hug sometimes