i thought it was like all of em except artemis’s didn’t go in for the longest time
#h1-discussion
gentle venture
latent moon
technically zeus bc that thing just bounces out of enemies and never god damn lodges in what you want lmao
good for tart clearing tho that's neat
gentle venture
I’d actively rather have no cast
mint coral
Yeah zeus is annoying to lodge sometimes
gentle venture
than zeus’s
SPECIFICALLY cuz of the hades fight
And i guess lernie and the heroes
latent moon
eshot + cold fusion goes kinda hard tho tbf
gentle venture
there are a lot of times I’d rather have my regular cast than sacrifice the range for an effect
but I think that’s also just a leftover habit from the days where I didn’t know better about all of them
latent moon
doesnt base cast have like some of the lowest range
aphro and arty are like the lowest i think
gentle venture
Artemis has low throw range?
gentle venture
i thought that was far
stone rune
its low
latent moon
i've seen it hit range limit
gentle venture
i think its further than athenas
stone rune
you often see it pop
gentle venture
Wouldn’t Demeter technically be the “lowest” even though that’s just because it works differently?
because otherwise, it’s definitely Aphrodite, thats like a COUGH of a distance
latent moon
Wouldn’t Demeter technically be the “lowest” even though that’s just because it ...
i mean we're comparing for lodging ones lmao
but yeah aphro is def shortest
but arty is also somewhat short
athena's has good range, same wtih flood shot
zeus kinda just does whatever
latent moon
festive fog is rail special at home
gentle venture
I just wanna pull up with deadly neurotoxin
latent moon
ngl if it did hangover, it'd be not as good tbh
mint coral
If it was hangover they'd prob change black out
Also what number would you even give to it
gentle venture
I guess I’m kind of thinking about it wrong
I don’t know if I’d necessarily mean hangover I just mean more like I wish it did damage as opposed to being just like a weird effect
mint coral
And multiple casts/cast dmg would be like useless
latent moon
oh
gentle venture
like gimme a poison gas cloud, not a minor inconvenience
mint coral
I guess I’m kind of thinking about it wrong
I don’t know if I’d necessarily mean...
I mean, is the highest dmg one
latent moon
it'd still be a nerf tho lmao
mint coral
Just need to endure stygian soul
latent moon
hangover override is just unfortunate
gentle venture
Also does one specific god have the highest base damage percentage increase on boons or does it vary per move
mint coral
Aphro wins
gentle venture
alrighty then
mint coral
And pos is the highest variance
His attack is the worst
And somehow his special os 2nd highest
gentle venture
Dont mind me, just cooking up a really dumb plan for beowulf
mint coral
Dem/athena are similar~ish
latent moon
pretty sure they're the same
mint coral
Arte averages nicely with crits
gentle venture
atk based beo?
Attack
latent moon
hold on lemme check something
mint coral
Cshot minotaur rush crit sounds mwah
gentle venture
Aphro attack, maybe arte cast, posiedon dash or special?
hangover on whatevers left
mint coral
Why hangover
gentle venture
love
mint coral
Understandable
latent moon
and no bull rushes
keen mortar
festive fog is rail special at home
wait what every time i use it it's insane
gentle venture
I’m imagining a an aphro/arte build on beo
keen mortar
especially with stygian soul
mint coral
zag shield base atk has the same base damage as beo lol
Lmao
latent moon
wait what every time i use it it's insane
i mean it's alright but it's not fantastic
same with base rail special
mint coral
For trippy you are either going for ice wine or playing beo lmao
That arc needs to go
latent moon
ideally yea
latent moon
I’m imagining a an aphro/arte build on beo
heart rend beo?
keen mortar
it stunlocks most enemies after armor as well as does around 200 base, i dunno not an expert but it seems fine
gentle venture
heart rend beo?
if everything goes well
either that or whatever dio/aphro’s duo is
maybe get the faster throw hammer, put hangover on that special
mint coral
It increases the amount if hangover stacks
gentle venture
yeah
mint coral
Good but no way you get good value out of it on beo
latent moon
i did heart rend beo i swear i just cant find the screenshot
mint coral
Either cuz special or the low number of nasty dash
gentle venture
i mean hangover special shield is my normal shield build when i play chaos aspect
mint coral
You at least have 5 shield for that
keen mortar
played that with 3 shield yesterday
mint coral
Beo you are just killing your attack for 1 stack
latent moon
keen mortar
not terrible lol but bull rush did 90% of the work
latent moon
maybe get the faster throw hammer, put hangover on that special
that would be pretty bad on beo
mint coral
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/1019097823075115048/...
Bouldy carry
keen mortar
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/1019097823075115048/...
we believe in bouldy
latent moon
seven MINUTES
i mean i've been speedrunning for some time now lmao
keen mortar
5% is like two poms on hermes lol
latent moon
also that was using speedrun modpack
gentle venture
I think in general i need to do more aphro runs, i used to avoid her altogether cuz i didnt understand weak
rustic vale
i mean hangover special shield is my normal shield build when i play chaos aspec...
I don’t have a normal build for chaos because I haven’t touched chaos in 200+ hours
latent moon
5% is like two poms on hermes lol
5% is technically 10% bc multiplicitive movement speed
gentle venture
I don’t have a normal build for chaos because I haven’t touched chaos in 200+ ho...
its my favorite shield
rustic vale
…
gentle venture
pun intended- it just speaks to me
keen mortar
I think in *general* i need to do more aphro runs, i used to avoid her altogethe...
aphro has some crazy base multipliers without weak
latent moon
wait that build is kinda sick wtf
rustic vale
I’d rather any other
latent moon
2 jerkies, ichor, and shot??
latent moon
if you want easy big numbers just use aphro atk hestia
rustic vale
With 2 of the flag damage gods
keen mortar
big number yay
rustic vale
With 2 of the flag damage gods
So you can throw them on the other
the other part of your kit
And have success
gentle venture
i used to only ever use her if i was doing a priv status hangover build
keen mortar
With 2 of the flag damage gods
getting zeus on arthur, brb
mint coral
Zeus call:
gentle venture
I mean, I like Zeus, call and all but dad
rustic vale
What
rustic vale
Tbh
mint coral
If you are starting aphro chances are that your call charge is gonna be terrible
rustic vale
I really just value like
3 calls
zeus and dio for dps and dem is bad dps but still dps
keen mortar
time for a dion attack hestia run
gentle venture
I mean i value having more than 1, hence no to smair
mint coral
Smair gets you like 10 calls over a fight
rustic vale
except with dad call
Smair is free fast damage and small calling is already better dps under normal circumstances
gentle venture
Ive been doing a lot of dad call runs
rustic vale
So
rustic vale
Smair is free fast damage and small calling is already better dps under normal c...
Being able to do it way fast
Is just all the better
rustic vale
Dad call best option is proud bearing
Dad call best option is hl5 maim boiling point
gentle venture
I know I’m gonna get flamed but ive been doing some dad spear dad call runs
latent moon
dad call is only good on castpects and ME
other than that, the damage boost you get from it isn't that significant
gentle venture
and oh boy i love it
latent moon
at which point smair is a lot better
rustic vale
I know I’m gonna get flamed but ive been doing some dad spear dad call runs
Flame indeed
mint coral
They should bring back 4 bars dad call
(being able to just pop it on all rooms was funny)
gentle venture
I don’t use it because it’s good. I use it because I think it’s fun to use his moveset against him.
mint coral
(being able to just pop it on all rooms was funny)
Also it would work with smair
latent moon
in which case just use zag spear lmao
rustic vale
Rng
gentle venture
i had a terrible one earlier though, aphro special on the charged throw
rustic vale
in which case just use zag spear lmao
I mean
gentle venture
and arte attack
rustic vale
It’s like zag spear but you can spin for +150% additive
latent moon
imagine actually using the spin
rustic vale
i had a terrible one earlier though, aphro special on the charged throw
That’s kind of baxkwards tbh
Like
Arte would go so much further on special
gentle venture
it wasnt intentional, i got bad pulls earlier in
mint coral
i had a terrible one earlier though, aphro special on the charged throw
Was this charged skewer w/o exploding launcher
gentle venture
yeah, no exploding
mint coral
Pain
gentle venture
I mean i dont love charged skewer in general
at least with the normal throw anyway
gentle venture
Was this charged skewer w/o exploding launcher
i havent had that combo yet
mint coral
at least with the normal throw anyway
There's this aspect called guan-
rustic vale
at least with the normal throw anyway
Charged only works well if you have explodinf
latent moon
lmfao
gentle venture
This is why i was talking about a well item or boon or something that would effect when hammers showed up
gentle venture
cuz if some hammers are like supplemental
rustic vale
That’s it
mint coral
Spear has it the worst for hammers tbh
rustic vale
Spear has it the worst for hammers tbh
…sword
gentle venture
i agree
rustic vale
You can’t get worse then sword
gentle venture
i think you can
mint coral
I mean sword still feels usable w/ dedge
rustic vale
Spear has a ton of mid hammers but sword has a handful that just shoot you in the foot for no value
gentle venture
i mean at least spear doesnt get some terrible lunge attack that messes up your whole moveset
mint coral
Non cast spear is just feels bleh
gentle venture
Spear has a ton of mid hammers but sword has a handful that just shoot you in th...
precisely
mint coral
But also yeah, at least you don't get an "actively harmful" tier lmfao
rustic vale
latent moon
I mean like mid run
hammers are forced in the run, it's hard to miss a hammer lmao
rustic vale
hammers are forced in the run, it's hard to miss a hammer lmao
Y’know
gentle venture
well yeah, but i want two rapidfire sometimes
rustic vale
For a while my fastest fists clear was talos with no hammers
gentle venture
not tart then elysium
latent moon
unfortunately, game balance is a thing lmao
gentle venture
i wanna BOND with my moveset
mint coral
Game is coded so 2nd hammer is ely+ only
mint coral
Chaos extension into clockets
rustic vale
Meg with clockets
gentle venture
i wanna BOND with my moveset
not love what i have and then get screwed by three bad picks (i have room reroll on) in the second to last floor
rustic vale
Meg with clockets would be so cursed
2 hammers before ely is something that should be off lkmitd
latent moon
hence, game balance lmao
latent moon
super armored lout lmao
mint coral
Aspho would survive by curbing your asphodel
gentle venture
I don’t know I just wanna be able to do something stupid with the rail gun super early
Like rapid fire explosion AND three round burst
the whole time
latent moon
sounds like someone wants to use codex mod
mint coral
Flurry and delta can't combine 🤓
gentle venture
why
gentle venture
Oh, what, so i can have infinite on one but not 3 rockets WITH it?
gentle venture
The three round burst infinite ammo one, right?
mint coral
Oh
gentle venture
And triple bomb?
mint coral
When you meant rapid fire explosion I though you were saying flurry shot/explosive shot and delta lmao
mint coral
No yeah delta + triple bomb is fair game
rustic vale
Internal cooldown crap
mint coral
How worse it can be than like flurry/delta + swift strike
mint coral
Smth smth is technically a dps loss but you need to play it perfectly
gentle venture
I’m trying to think of the worst hammers for each weapon
latent moon
cursed slash on sword
gentle venture
Oh screw that one
mint coral
Special hammers on bow
gentle venture
That one kick one on the fists
fervent radish
kick is good
mint coral
Chiron doesn't exists 😃
rustic vale
relentless and conc are ok with arty
Relentless and conc make arty usable on chiron
it literally takes your base damage and multiplies it by 4
mint coral
What's the worst for spear
rustic vale
Flurry + serrated
mint coral
Flaring spin?
proven lichen
Massive spin is probably worse tbh
mint coral
Special hammers on bow
Or repulse shot
mint coral
Or repulse shot
Or charged volley 
Hades spear would be much funnier if the debuff worked on the spins
gentle venture
right
proven lichen
the spin heavy aspects (hades and guan yu) both still don't benefit that much from massive spin
latent moon
Massive spin is probably worse tbh
unfortunately, that has a niche and is useful
mint coral
Right, we live in a world where gy made it work
latent moon
the spin heavy aspects (hades and guan yu) both still don't benefit that much fr...
its good on guan yu as a 2nd hammer for 125% more damage
gentle venture
the spin heavy aspects (hades and guan yu) both still don't benefit that much fr...
I use the massive spin on Hades aspect to apply debuffs to entire rooms
latent moon
flaring spin has no niche so that's probably the worst
mint coral
Rail worst depends more on aspect
latent moon
true
gentle venture
yeah
mint coral
Shield is dread flight imo
gentle venture
Whats that one again
mint coral
+4 bounces
mint coral
Clueless
mint coral
Yup
gentle venture
It doesnt
latent moon
yea
mint coral
None of the special hammers
gentle venture
but im more saying everyone else picks beo, which throwing the shield is actively worse on
mint coral
And so is on chaos
latent moon
charged flight used to be meta
but also that yeah
also beo uses the special in tartarus for speedruns
gentle venture
Ive never entirely understood what people don’t like about chaos and chiron
mint coral
Plain weak
gentle venture
i mean i dont LOVE chiron
gentle venture
but chaos is my bread and butter
latent moon
chaos gimmick sucks so you might as well just use zag shield, which is why people dont like chaos
gentle venture
i LOVE chaos gimmick
latent moon
doesnt mean it's good lol
gentle venture
Step one, throw hangover or doom on the special, step 2 throw aphro on attack, step 3 kill
mint coral
Rail worst depends more on aspect
Zag: explosive? Or seeking
Eris: spread/hazard
Hestia: no clue actually
latent moon
chiron's special is slow and has no aoe so it's kinda just eh
mint coral
Less for luci
latent moon
worst for hestia is spread/delta
keen mortar
chiron seems good for frost or hangover
mint coral
worst for hestia is spread/delta
Tfw your worst is just doesn't do anything
Sword crying again
gentle venture
chiron seems good for frost or hangover
It is
mint coral
What even is fists worst
gentle venture
forgot about frost, that on chaos throw slaps too
keen mortar
sword has like 5 negative value hammers lmao
mint coral
Heavy?
latent moon
prob heavy yeah
rustic vale
chiron seems good for frost or hangover
Hangover yes
Demeter is only there because any +% god works with concentrated and relentless
rustic vale
What even is fists worst
I love heavy knuckle talos tbh
keen mortar
is frost not worth as a status condition?
fringe dust
Seriously
gentle venture
Greetings, Fellow Gilgamesh Defender
latent moon
is frost not worth as a status condition?
arctic blast is like alright, but like the stacks themselves without it doesnt really do any damage
gentle venture
I used to adore frost when i was doing priv status
latent moon
and also dem doesnt do that much damage unless you get conc volley
mint coral
I used to breath artic blast Chiron lmao
wicked sage
Zag: explosive? Or seeking
Eris: spread/hazard
Hestia: no clue actually
i think its delta chamber for hestia, while it has no effect it literally gets rid of hestia's main feature
gentle venture
cuz 10 stacks of that plus 5 hangover is like a continuous 20 seconds of nuts damage
mint coral
You can still manually reload
gentle venture
yeah
latent moon
it quite literally does nothing
gentle venture
On the other two it fully deactivates that button, hestia keeps it
keen mortar
it quite literally does nothing
tfw the hammer misses the gun entirely
gentle venture
i also gotta say, some of the legendary aspects hammers are such nothing additions
keen mortar
legendary weapons feel so underwhelming overall
mint coral
i also gotta say, some of the legendary aspects hammers are such nothing additio...
Spear/bow crying
...
gentle venture
Spear/bow crying
I don’t know any of guan yu’s hammers so i wouldnt know
mint coral
I don’t know any of guan yu’s hammers so i wouldnt know
Travels longer distance
Spin I mean
gentle venture
gilgas hammers are pretty… good
Lucifers might as well not exist, other than maybe triple beam or whatever its called
Arthurs dont do enough for it
Wish luci got a hammer to revert its rockets lmao
keen mortar
like a legend appeared to another legend to pass down his aspect within their shared weapon, and it happens to come with either a 75% HP debuff/the slowest swings in history/the laser that's sleepy for 5 seconds starting up/a wooden board/a status that increases damage to yourself
the legendary aspects should have been at least mildly more powerful at face value
gentle venture
i thought gilgamesh had 2?
mint coral
Lucifer is the only one with multiple hammers
(and it's because their normal counterpart wouldn't work)
mint coral
i thought gilgamesh had 2?
Just rending
gentle venture
Right
gentle venture
like a legend appeared to another legend to pass down his aspect within their sh...
A status that increases damage to you- if you get hit
gilga CAN be redeemed
mint coral
like a legend appeared to another legend to pass down his aspect within their sh...
Is wooden board rama
keen mortar
i forgot rama
gentle venture
big meaty claws
mint coral
Lmao
mint coral
Spaghetti shield
gentle venture
A mod that replaces beowulf with plank from ed edd and eddy
keen mortar
also like why does maim even increase damage like you literally maimed the enemy what's damaging you their maimed arms?
i think they reversed the negative sign or something
mint coral
Lmfao
I need to time travel to see some of the balance thoughts in real time
Beo +10% dmg taken 
gentle venture
Does maim make sense, no
Does it matter when ive already killed them with the remainder of its moveset? No
keen mortar
if an aspect had to be simply better than the other ones during balance at least make it the aspect with legendary part in their name
don't make it the weakest while having so much hype and interesting dialogue lmao
mint coral
Gilga/beo were added quite late so testing was pretty empty
Of course now we see who got the short end of the stick on thay
Cuz beo got away with its bugs lmao
gentle venture
Gilga is pretty funny when you get the extra hermes dashes
latent moon
Cuz beo got away with its bugs lmao
I mean most of them are harmful
latent moon
It's just that the ones it benefits from are just insanely good
gentle venture
I can’t fathom how they manage to make what is supposed to be the most legendary sword in all of history, the most garbage weapon on earth
keen mortar
guan yu having hp loss for no apparent reason other than suffering
mint coral
That's just sgg and healing in general for this game
gentle venture
I could deal with less starting health. I cannot deal with less percent for the entire run.
mint coral
If you are healing is either through a weird method or rip your hp bar
keen mortar
i had like 66 hp after taking all the centaur hearts and darkness i could find
real bough
I can’t fathom how they manage to make what is supposed to be the most legendary...
Guan Yu?
cuz if that then bruh agreed
gentle venture
No arthur
real bough
what?
rustic vale
cuz 10 stacks of that plus 5 hangover is like a continuous 20 seconds of nuts da...
It’s like nothing compared to just hangover
mint coral
I enjoyed arthur a lot more before
real bough
tanky damaging
real bough
why is it bad
rustic vale
slow
real bough
what
rustic vale
and clunky
real bough
nah
real bough
nah we might needda throw hands
real bough
for tis
mint coral
nah we might needda throw hands
Have fun reaching them in the first place
rustic vale
guan-yu = not slow, good dps, rangex
mint coral
Krill issue
rustic vale
doesn’t matter if I just don’t get hit
real bough
yea yea
rustic vale
and it’s not arthur so I don’t really have to worry about getting hit
I mean that’s literally high heat gaming
Lc4 means you need to keep mistakes at a minimum
gentle venture
excalibur is supposed to be the most legendary sword in history
how could you massacre my boy like that
proven lichen
I mean it is very unique
rustic vale
I mean it is very unique
So are the rest of the hidden aspects
gentle venture
un- the entirety of arthur’s special lag amount of time - usable
rustic vale
But the rest of the hidden aspects are actually go- wait
gentle venture
No no
rustic vale
The rest of hidden aspects contains gilgamesh
proven lichen
So are the rest of the hidden aspects
True, I think that's what they were mainly going for to have epic-feeling weapons, not necessarily being altogether amazing (they were probably worried about just outright overshadowing the other aspects)
rustic vale
I can’t say that
rustic vale
The 4 other hidden aspects that are real and can hurt me are good
gentle venture
it just takes a bit more awareness
proven lichen
hl3 but you don't get 3 heat for it, is what gilga ultimately feels like to me
rustic vale
I haven’t even commented on the shorter dashes yet
mint coral
The talos vs dem quote really applies for a lot of things
proven lichen
blade dash
rustic vale
Gilga can be fun.
But it does not put the fun in function.
gentle venture
athena on dash
proven lichen
ares and athena on dash?
raw herald
Hmm
gentle venture
whatever cast you want, just NONE of theirs
gentle venture
Gilga deflect build is satisfying as hell
rustic vale
I mean… just play Merciful End if you want gilga deflect
I have a feeling I’ll enjoy shackle gilga a bit more the. This
gentle venture
i mean fine then, put doom on the special then, get hangover or whatever you want on dash, athena attack
Get ME
Doom special on maim is funny, its just two dooms
but ones risky
worth it tho
rustic vale
Have you
gentle venture
Bonus if you can get sturdy dashes from hermes
rustic vale
Ares strike athena special athena dash
proven lichen
I mean ME works on fists basically regardless
proven lichen
But if you're not using Maim, then Gilga just becomes worse zag fists
rustic vale
It works so much better then whatever you just cooled with ares special
gentle venture
I mean i mostly say athena attack cuz of the swiping range to deflect stuff obeing slightly more useful than applying doom with it
proven lichen
like I'm not the type to piss on your favs all I'm saying is I personally really don't get Maim's downside at all
rustic vale
well
Immeditalty dropping doom
Is huge dps
And you deflect with dash
since it’s ddash
proven lichen
but that was true of Rama for me too once upon a time (I was a total and utter fool and now it's my favorite by far)
gentle venture
i mean maim’s downside only matters if the enemy has range or if you aren’t careful about what you apply it to
raw herald
Well maims downside is that maimed enemies do more damage to you
But if you dont get hit then its not a downside
gentle venture
or if they’re still ALIVE
gentle venture
But if you dont get hit then its not a downside
Exactly
rustic vale
maims downside is really how long the special takes and the fact that the enemy won’t live to get any value from that 400 damage drop
Anything else is just auxilary negatvies
gentle venture
gilga, and the fists in general, too fast for me to worry about being touched, let alone worried about a LITTLE maim bonus damage from them
fiery pecan
is it any worth to have poseidon keepsake only in hope of getting his legendary?
gentle venture
it’ll definitely help
rustic vale
Gilga is literally like the least defensive fists aspect
Especially as an fo2 gamer
The longer cooldown and shorter dashes
Are
annoying
gentle venture
i’ll repeat myself- get sturdy dash
rustic vale
Hyper sprint is something you take on every weapon in the game
gentle venture
means you get that little zoom after
rustic vale
Because rush delivery is broken
gentle venture
gives you time to recoop
gentle venture
hell, the extra dashes on gilga are funny too
rustic vale
Extra dashes are also a shoe-in when you don’t get hyper sprint
On every weapon in game
Also already factored in
My opinion has not changed with either of these revelations
gentle venture
I just feel like maim’s downside is hardly something to worry about if i’m gonna kill everything anyway
gentle venture
regardless of if its from maim or whatever else i kill em with
rustic vale
Maims real downside is just tricking you into using special at all when you could just dash strike them in less time
for the same output
gentle venture
i mean i use gilga for the dash strike more than i use maim
i like the way it chains if you just hold both buttons
rustic vale
Yeah that’s how fists works
You
Dash strikeo
The issue with gilga
Is the longer dash cooldowns and slow dash strikes
gentle venture
I don’t know man
Maybe i just dont notice it as much
Ive learned not to really try and use all four at once unless i’m trying to kill just one thing with big health
Ive played so much gilga that the downsides dont seem like downsides anymore
rustic vale
My muscle memory screams it at me
gentle venture
Its just weaponized jank
I’ll go back go dem fists tonight and see how different i play compared to gilga and see if i notice
rustic vale
I’ll go back go dem fists tonight and see how different i play compared to gilga...
I mean
If you’re uber used to gilga
It’ll throw you off a bit
Like going from rama to zag bow
proven lichen
Like going from rama to zag bow
oh tell me about it all the other bows feel like hyperspeed vs rama
rustic vale
I mean
Every bow is hyperspeed
Including rama
Rama just moves at a different pace for speed
Except chiron
Chiron is not hyper speed
Chiron slow the rest are fast
proven lichen
obviously I agree I just mean the attack pace is very hard to switch
powershot timining especially
rustic vale
I’m not a huge rama gamer
I main zagbow
A lot
It’s dumb because it’s like the 3rd most effective bow but it stuck withbme
Let me pull some zag bow footage and make some rama footage for you
proven lichen
3rd most effective bow is still vgood lol
rustic vale
oh ofc it’s still very good
But like I could’ve been attached to the 2 speed aspects and likely had an easier time with my sub10 and 40 heat clears but whatever
gentle venture
i go nemesis, hades, chaos/beo, rama, gilga, and im a little undecided on rail
gentle venture
off topic, whats arte’s favor
rustic vale
Here’s my zagbow footage
It’s a little rough but
I’m a little rough
So
Now I’ll make footage of me trying rama
proven lichen
off topic, whats arte’s favor
her affinity? literally just keep talking to her, she has to go through a bunch of convos about callisto
rustic vale
I don’t trust myself on 32 heat with rama atm
Will just grab footage from 20
Then turn it up to 32 after
gentle venture
what if
gilga high heat footage
gentle venture
All i want from my pointless gilga praise
Is for someone to try one of my stupid loadouts and to either be like, “alright i get it now” or “yknow what, i hated every second of it, but it worked”
I’ll go into my records room tonight and check what boons and stuff i’ve beat the game with gilga
I don’t know how though, cuz i can’t send images and I don’t know why
rustic vale
All i want from my pointless gilga praise
Is for someone to try one of my stupid...
I will once I’ve finished getting my rama footage then doing my actual work
gentle venture
hell yeah
rustic vale
I don’t know how though, cuz i can’t send images and I don’t know why
You can send them through embeds and that’s it
rustic vale
For me
I have a personal discord server with just me
I send my images there
Tap “share media” or whatever
Then go to the part where it says
Copy
Or copy link
and then send that here
gentle venture
ah
So if i have an empty server, i can send it there and then send the LINK here and it’ll show up as the actual image
alright
gentle venture
then i’ll check some of my gilga runs when i get home and put em somewhere
I will probably toss them into build and combat because that’s where it would make most sense
right?
rustic vale
I will probably toss them into build and combat because that’s where it would ma...
I mean
If it’s a victory screen
gentle venture
Does it technically count if it’s the records room version?
gentle venture
sure why not
I guess that makes sense
Then, yeah, I’ll put a couple of my gilga victories in there so people can maybe see what stupid stuff i made work that makes me defend them
rustic vale
I mean
Just because it worked
Doesn’t mean it’s good
speedrunners can routinely pull like sub8 sub7 even with like meme builds
and high heat gamers can do the same at like 45 - 50
Real high heat gamers unlike myself 
gentle venture
i’d love to do at least ONE speedrun to that level
i gotta cut down to like a consistent 16 minutes first though
rustic vale
The closest I’ve got to speedrunning is my sub10 zag bow clear
gentle venture
i think i came KINDA close to a 16 or 17 minute run on my 10th clear
but that’s a huge caveat
rustic vale
That’s when I was trying for speed but ever since I came back from hiatus I’ve been playing for heat
gentle venture
i think highest heat ive ever cleared is like 6 or 8
not 100% sure
i’ll check that too when i get home
i MIGHTVE beat like an EM3 i think I don’t know
rustic vale
Em3 is 6
gentle venture
But yeah a lot of my most enjoyable runs were back in my 420 days when id throw whatever at the wall and force it to stick through dr*g induced willpower
like some stupid gilga stuff, weird shield runs
I quit all that stuff but still love a weird run from time to time but nowadays… i just wanna win
and im not great at that
still stuck on gilga tho lol
unfortunately, good build or no build, im bad at producing results
But that’s why i’m here, to learn from all of you, who seem to be MUCH more experienced, or at least way better, even though I’ve been playing this game for the very long time at this point
stone rune
i’d love to do at least ONE speedrun to that level
once u get the hang of it its prettys imple
gentle venture
What’s the generally accepted ideal weapon for it? All of my fastest runs are with the fists.
if the weapon matters i mean
stone rune
beo
rustic vale
if the weapon matters i mean
Beo is like the fastest, but if you want weapon y weapon
Sword: Nem, Spear: Achilles, Shield: Beowulf, Bow: Hera, Fists: Demeter, Rail: Eris
stone rune
close????
rustic vale
ok
stone rune
rama is not that good at speed
the wr is literally only 5:26 or something
and thats one of like 4 total sub6s on it
latent moon
Aren't eris and hestia considered equal for speed
rustic vale
Possibly
gentle venture
maybe i just havent used it enough but hearing that beo is considered fast blows my mind cuz of how tanky it can feel
gentle venture
I don’t know
Something about it feels weird to me
I gotta get more used to it, it’s a fun weapon to use, i’m just not the best at it so i constantly switch back to chaos
stone rune
chaos
stone rune
chaos
rustic vale
Bugowolf
stone rune
with a lot of aoe
gentle venture
ah
fervent radish
rustic vale
even a bumbling idiot like me can manage a 4:42 on beo
If Jazz = bumbling idiot then everyone here is a neandrethal
gentle venture
so fully upgraded beowulf is the shield equivalent to what i call gilga’s “paper shredder” moveset
stone rune
i cant even count
fervent radish
yeah p much
gentle venture
cool
stone rune
beo is not equivalent to gilga in any way
rustic vale
i cant even count
That’s still better than 50% of the hades community
gentle venture
oh my god we’ve been over this so many times
rustic vale
Gilga is like the 2nd slowest if not slowest aspect of itMs weapon
Where
Bugowolf is the fastest flat out
gentle venture
Gilga is like the 2nd slowest if not slowest aspect of itMs weapon
oh yeah, 100%
rustic vale
demeter and zag fists go hard
gentle venture
gilga just sucks and is bad
how long have you PLAYED gilga though
gentle venture
thats it?
gentle venture
one that you can think of?
rustic vale
Girl has less than half your fastest clear as time spent on gilga
and still beat dad
In that time
gentle venture
no wonder everyone here hates it, nobody ever gives it the time
stone rune
i mean its not like beating dad is a challenge
rustic vale
Cherry gives it time
stone rune
im simply not going to waste my time on one of the worst aspects in the game
on a weapon i hate
gentle venture
Cherry gives it time
and i respect that
rustic vale
But Cherrys more speedrun server
gentle venture
a true artisan
rustic vale
I genuinely don’t find it fun so I don’t give it time
stone rune
i dont want to spend hours and hours not even getting a single sub6
rustic vale
Like chaos & arthur
stone rune
like whats even the point
its just a waste of life
its not fun to play so i dont play it
and it sucks and does not get good results
so i dont play it
gentle venture
I feel like time and heat are way to high of a focus here sometimes
rustic vale
I just know the factors that detract from it and I feel them when I play it
gentle venture
why is everything results oriented?
stone rune
how else are you gonna play the game
gentle venture
why not just mess around and get clears
stone rune
why not just mess around and get clears
because thats insanely boring\
sitting around on low heat racking up hundreds long streak
rustic vale
I’m not that results oriented because I haven’t focused on speed in a year
And I’ve barely been working at heat
but
If someone comes & asks me@if gilga is a good aspect I can’t in good faith say yes
gentle venture
yeah but at least you dont verbally throw the weapon in the garbage every time its brought up
you’ll be like “yeah its bad lol”
stone rune
it sucks
gentle venture
and then theres you
fervent radish
*and then theres you*
don't get too pressed. that's just how jazz is
gentle venture
you dont see me trashin what you like
but then again, i also don’t know enough to be able to
gentle venture
don't get too pressed. that's just how jazz is
oh believe me i totally get it, i’m also the die on a hill type of individual
fervent radish
good luck
gentle venture
its almost more fun that way
like my violently stupid argument of console early access yesterday
fervent radish
- Be kind. This is an international, diverse community whose common ground is an interest in our games. As a member of this community, we expect you to contribute to an environment where everyone feels welcome and included. Be accepting and respectful. Avoid being inflammatory.
or something idk
gentle venture
like my *violently stupid* argument of console early access yesterday
I’m on the wrong hill, sure, but i will die on it
stone rune
the difference is that im right
gentle venture
sigh
fervent radish
truly one of the moments ever
gentle venture
i dont really think there IS a right and wrong here
stone rune
there is and im right
gentle venture
maybe i’m just good enough to counter gilga’s jank
rustic vale
you dont see me trashin what you like
I mean there are hardly any points to even trash on beowulfs side
fervent radish
that's not it
gentle venture
I mean there are hardly any points to even trash on beowulfs side
i mean like anything, not just beo
fervent radish
gilga is, by measurable metrics, a far worse aspect than beo
gentle venture
oh yeah i know
fervent radish
however, it's not appropriate to trash playing the game for reasons other than speed
rustic vale
like
gentle venture
i just think people play it once and be like ew instead of investing hard time into dissecting why its not that bad
fervent radish
^
rustic vale
as someone who has more than 1 gilga clear
stone rune
and its certainly not the fault of the player's skill
gentle venture
I’m sure someone can find a way to do it faster
rustic vale
Cherry is a baller but the aspect can't support it
fervent radish
*i just think people play it once and be like ew instead of investing hard time ...
as someone who has like 2 gilga clears, the ew is not something that gets better
fervent radish
I’m sure someone can find a way to do it faster
bro
stone rune
no way you can get a 53x instead
fervent radish
you should do it then
proven lichen
the best gilga player's pb after thousands of hours is 5:41
not that I per se disagree, but what's the gilga heat record?
proven lichen
oof
rustic vale
I think every aspect has like 55 at least
gentle venture
you should do it then
I have to get my normal clears down to that first
fervent radish
oh what's arthur
proven lichen
pos sword? really? it doesn't strike me as that bad
rustic vale
I’m sure someone can find a way to do it faster
I mean... Cherry is Cherry tbf
proven lichen
well now I know what to do
stone rune
arthur is like 57 unmodded
fervent radish
i c
proven lichen
except no I'm never giving up on my boi rama
stone rune
the insane nephi run
gentle venture
I dont think ive touched pos sword once
stone rune
where both athena dds get popped overtime
gentle venture
My main point is, I don’t think it matters whether or not a weapon is considered good or bad by a community
It may be a piece of garbage, but its MY fully upgraded, janky piece of garbage
gentle venture
a build rq
I just got home, imma hop on in a few seconds to check my builds
stone rune
a build rq
the build where u use a diff aspect
gentle venture
is this fun for you
rustic vale
I feel like if I was in Jazz’s shoes I would be jaded & stopped trying by now tbh
Not this convo but just
Every convo
real bough
My main point is, I don’t think it matters whether or not a weapon is considered...
oh great so
can yall not downplaying my boy Excalibruh
stone rune
no
gentle venture
yknow what imma try and clear with arthur next time i use sword just for you
cuz im willing to try something different
cuz its fun
fiery pecan
Okay I'm having a lot of mixed feelings.
Just was beating my best time for a mile and then hades decides not to fight!
stone rune
arthur is of course the polar opposite of fun
probably the most frustrating aspect in the game
the hitboxes are truly atrocious
rustic vale
Okay I'm having a lot of mixed feelings.
Just was beating my best time for a m...
Ngl this is
What everyone says on clear 10
My run was going so well then Hades just let me thru
etc etc
real bough
the hitboxes are truly atrocious
its actually good!!!
well the dash strike is oddly small but
rustic vale
but kike
gentle venture
the hitboxes are truly atrocious
i wouldnt know enough about specific data to agree with you, but yeah, arthur IS at a minimum, weird as hell
rustic vale
when you say good
real bough
its litterally the biggest hitbox
rustic vale
How are you measuring goodness
real bough
yeah and the dash strikes are the only thing u use
? 🤨
stone rune
i wouldnt use the complete garbage main attack combo
stone rune
thats just a waste of time
latent moon
oh no someone isn't playing the game at the highest level possible with meta builds and combos!
real bough
how are you measuring the quality of arthur
pure bruteforce through my way out of hell so
solid 7-8
stone rune
on that scale beo is 100
real bough
10
real bough
plus thats too much thinking for me
real bough
Talk about why sometjings good when
nah, I'mma log off
rustic vale
There isn’t any basis to compare it to
Rigjt
so to say it’s good you must be contrasting it against something
Weapon strength repeatedly falls back to how it does for heat & speed cuz that’s really the 2 things we can tie solid #’s and statistics too
And what most skilled players care (at least a little) about
gentle venture
It wouldn’t let me send the pics in here the way you showed me so i just dmed you the gilga builds
stone rune
just post the link
gentle venture
i tried it just did a link to the server my images are in instead
latent moon
do image link instead of message link
gentle venture
i found it
right before you said that
thats
just one of em
dammit
I GOT IT
proven lichen
holy PG I got clockets for the first time lets GOO
latent moon
oh that's just reverse ME
gentle venture
never mind i got it
keen mortar
@stone rune thx for your help with sword, just played nemesis again with the proper attack pattern and got probably the best dps yet. Feels much faster
gentle venture
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1222413055216844803/1222413138129977414/I...
I have four more, should i put them here or in victory boasts
yalls preference
I don’t care
keen mortar
timing the dash attack so they don't just become a dash and then an attack was hard lol
i dunno, the rules dont seems very strict
gentle venture
imma put it in victory boasts that makes more sense
There
Those are my gilgamesh builds
Or at least the five most recent ones
keen mortar
how do you make your images a link?
gentle venture
its funny cuz i just learned
make a server of just you
send your images there
On mobile, Click and hold on the image, to bring the share options and do copy media link
gentle venture
The only drawback is that you basically have to do multiple images at once in a singular message because if you try to do it across multiple, then it will say that you’re sending too many links at a time
keen mortar
the amount of times the game has made me think there was a plot hole and then fixed it immediately is staggering
i thought "why don't i just pay charon for a ride up" and zag asks charon in the next run
i thought "how come hades doesn't just take away zag's weapons" and then the dialogue above addresses it.
i thought ''it's funny how they make hades keep burning his cloak" and then zag finds the entire wardrobe
gentle venture
The wardrobe one is the funniest call back
gentle venture
Hades room yeah
steep condor
iirc zag also has dialog commenting on the cloak burning you can get before having access to his room
steep condor
also i just read the gilga discussion and it reminded me of when i was new asking for zag sword builds because i liked the speed bonus and people just told me it's bad. i played it a while anyway and came to the realization that other aspects are better eventually, but i think people telling me it's bad didn't contribute to that at all
sometimes we just have to try stuff ourselves, that can absolutely be a point of a game
tepid light
also i just read the gilga discussion and it reminded me of when i was new askin...
yeah this is one one of the biggest things that irk me when it comes to 'advice' that people give here
if you want to try an aspect just because you haven't before and your curious, by all means
don't just tell someone "don't play this"
gentle venture
thANK YOU
i mean i’ll admit, it’s a comedy routine of mine to religiously defend gilgamesh, though its also not comedy, because i truly believe everything i say
I think its great!
tepid light
yeah like if you enjoy how an aspect plays and have fun with it, there's no problem
real bough
mess around and fine out
latent moon
i think the only time i tell someone to "don't play this" would be for like high heat since most people are going for the number rather than getting it on a specific weapon/aspect
real bough
latent moon
although if they insist on playing it then that's fine
gentle venture
yeah
if someones trying to achieve a specific goal, definitely stop bad decisions
latent moon
if someone asks about gilga at 32 i tell them you don't but i won't stop them from using gilga lmfao
tepid light
i think the only time i tell someone to "don't play this" would be for like high...
even then, i'd rather they come to the conclusion themselves than just deny them without reasoning
no finer way to learn than to experience it yourself, after all
gentle venture
Yeah
latent moon
fair
tepid light
because the point in heat at which a certain aspect stops working also varies from person to person
latent moon
although i think most people have already tried it a few times before asking at that point but fair
tepid light
see me using gilgamesh at 40
gentle venture
Gilga’s just one of those aspects where people are like god what is this, this isnt the fists, its an abomination
stone rune
fists are already an abomination
tepid light
fists are already an abomination
no u, gottem ez clapped
latent moon
Gilga’s just one of *those* aspects where people are like *god what is this, thi...
someone in speedcord is having that realization lmao
they main fists and got sub8 on every fist pretty easily and then they tried gilga and hate it
gentle venture
I think that’s funny
latent moon
talos and zag fist took them like 3 sessions total or something and was pretty fast
gilga they said they put in 1 attempt and finished heroes at 7:30 then quit lmao
which tbf is sub10 pace but they're shooting for sub8
gentle venture
Yeah
Nowadays, I’d be impressed with myself to get sub 20
i keep playing on and off
rustic vale
don't just tell someone "don't play this"
~~unless it's chaos shield~`
tepid light
~~unless it's chaos shield~`
joke's on you chaos shield is still part of my shield rotation when climbing heat
stone rune
i mean sub8 is still not that bad
keen mortar
what's the weapon with the lowest heat record
latent moon
gilga is tied with that isnt it
gentle venture
Those gilga builds you asked for are in Victory boasting By the way @rustic vale
latent moon
there's a couple tied for last
keen mortar
pos sword wasn't expected
gentle venture
I think its cuz nobody uses it
keen mortar
i thought the raw cast damage would be enough
stone rune
nobody plays heat and especially not pos sword heat
keen mortar
fair lol
tepid light
nobody plays heat and especially not pos sword heat
speak for yourself, jazz
stone rune
?
latent moon
zag fists, zag sword, pos, and gilga are all tied for 55
gentle venture
lets go higher
rustic vale
Those gilga builds you asked for are in Victory boasting By the way <@7337755129...
saw them got distracted by risk of rain 2
tepid light
but yeah i am a bit surprised that pos sword is one of the lower ones
rustic vale
will get around to it