h1-discussion

[maiden narwhal]

an argument in favour of chaos, you mean?

[rose roost]

the spread out pattern is kinda f'ed up

[rose roost]

yea

[stone rune]

it is

[maiden narwhal]

to you and yours
not to people who don't get it

[rose roost]

I mean it's a bad argument

but it's still good bcuz it's a shield

[maiden narwhal]

imagine you're arguing with someone on reddit

i think that sums it up nicely

they have.. opinions

but most of them don't know what you know

so it's a nice little echo chamber of misinformation

[stone rune]

get me in the convo with this user

ill fix the situation

[maiden narwhal]

so you can tell him 40 is free?

[hardy crown]

Honestly. I just punch things with the shield. It works fine but it’s nothing worth being hyped over with that type of play.

[maiden narwhal]

worked up to 32

couldn't 40 that way

[stone rune]

i wouldnt be lying

[maiden narwhal]

you also wouldn't be helping

[hardy crown]

I’m barely at an average of 10 across the board and I change my weapon with the bonus.

It works to 32 is fine with me

[maiden narwhal]

i mean it doesn't really affect my life, what he thinks about the game

but the sooner he understands the meta the better

[stone rune]

the chaos shield gimmick is useless because of the insane delay and loss of control of the shield

and low damage

thats it

[maiden narwhal]

perfect

i'll tell him that and not argue further

[stone rune]

ask how many times the heat wr for chaos uses the special

[stiff obsidian]

you never know

maybe it was used to reset faster

[latent moon]

special has a slow animation and doesnt really have much damge to begin with
when you throw it out, you can't attack or block so you're kinda just left to dodge, which isn't like horrible but also is a pretty significant drop in dps if you dont point blank it
even if you do point blank it, it's still a relatively long animation that you're stuck in

the gimmick just isn't like worth it

chaos shield is strong because it's a shield, not because the gimmick is good

it works because a hit and run playstyle can work, it's just very slow and tedious

[maiden narwhal]

is chaos special animation worse than zag shield?

[latent moon]

it's the same

[maiden narwhal]

ok

[latent moon]

if you look at angel's chaos wr, i'm like fairly certain she presses the special button twice and that's to finish low hp enemies

literally because cshot exists, there's no reason to use the special on chaos lmao

pulv blow is also really strong too

the attack hammers on shield are just so much better than the special ones it's just not worth using the special most of the time

[maiden narwhal]

and since chaos is special based, that makes it the worst shield of all?

apart from the other factors listed ofc

[latent moon]

yeah

[maiden narwhal]

cool thank you

[latent moon]

you already know why beo and zeus are strong, so no need to explain that

so at that point it's just zag vs chaos

[maiden narwhal]

what is wr?

[latent moon]

and since shield special is useless, zag shield is automatically better since that gives an increase to attack base damage

[latent moon]

61 or 62

something like that

it's in the spreadsheet pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies

modded btw

[maiden narwhal]

what does wr stand for?

[stone rune]

world record

[maiden narwhal]

aah

[latent moon]

oh that's what you meant lmao

[maiden narwhal]

yes lol

i thought r was run

and couldn't figure out the w

[stiff obsidian]

winning run

🗣️

trust

[devout terrace]

both chaos and zag have 62

[upper wolf]

they're the same aspect

[lavish sorrel]

Except one's the level 0 version of the other

[upper wolf]

yep

[brisk trail]

.............

[nocturne kelp]

Blidjdlifblufblfyfblodybkfufblofy hii bouldy

[nocturne kelp]

Bouldy I didn't know u play roblox...

[tranquil horizon]

bro bouldy ur here???!?!?!?!??!?!!!!?!?/1?!?!?!?1/?!/1

[maiden narwhal]

ugh why is zag rail so weak

or do you not play zeus on it?

[mint coral]

You do be missing free +75% global

Playing zeus on it is budget eris

You can do spread fire if you want

Either with like arty or ME

[maiden narwhal]

eris and grabbing rockets..

i don't think i play that to its potential

wow
epic attack epic tdash epic jolted, and i die to a trials room in tartarus

maybe i should stick to tetris

[maiden narwhal]

lmao i cast special and dash strike'd but the hand grabbed me anyway (they have sturdy?) and then my bomb landed and squished it

it was the best "say hello to my little friend" ever

[quasi dust]

So I cleared like, a single room in Asphodel but with a twist

I played the game in spanish

The translations are pretty interesting but I switched back cuz I'm not used to this

I play so many video games in English that playing one in spanish feels jarring to me

[quasi dust]

*btw this isn't a complaint by any means the translations are good, I said interesting because the names were long, but they were accurate and essentially that's what matters lol

As long as I understand it I'll play it

I'm sorry what

There's no way I just got hermes legendary what in the world

Huh

[hardy crown]

Yo. Quick question. I have 3 uses of death defiance. I can select last stand which replenishes a use of it. Would I be making a mistake by selecting it and not getting a 4th use of death defiance?

[mint coral]

No 4th defiance

[hardy crown]

Ok I didn’t want the other skills but at least they might be better than nothing.

[mint coral]

You'd still get the other effect of last stand (more defiance healing/more time invulnerable)

I just don't remember which is which lmao

[hardy crown]

Which boons are better for improving the sharanga (bow) special?

[rustic vale]

like… zeus special + static discharge + more zeus boons

[fervent radish]

doom route

hangover route

[rustic vale]

Hyper Sprint -> Rush Delivery isn’t Rama special specific, but will do the job

Doom is
Hangover is a bit sadder then zeus

But hangover always builds the same

sorry sorry

[hardy crown]

Hah I won’t be getting anything good. I’m in the chambers and my rerolls went badly. This is a cursed run but at least it’s survivable.

[rustic vale]

I ordered those sentences wrong

Hangover = sadder then zeus

Doom =

[fervent radish]

there's a tech where if you have stubborn defiance and pick up a replenish while you don't have SD active for the chamber, it'll add to your total lives

[rustic vale]

Hangover always builds the same no matter the aspect: hangover on faster of atk/special, aphrodite on the slower, pom the crap out of your hangover, take ares (curse of vengeance) to find curse of nausea

Rush Delivery again

[mint coral]

Tbh ares special rama may be the only way to get value out of curse of longing

[rustic vale]

Ares special rama is

[fervent radish]

could you like

athena attack

[rustic vale]

[fervent radish]

into ME and dash

[rustic vale]

ME Rama is an idea

One of them ever

[fervent radish]

there's also probably a cancel tech somewhere that allows quick proccing without dash

[mint coral]

Lily's guide recommended ME iirc

[fervent radish]

start athena attack to clear tart and reset for ares

[latent moon]

there's that like

pseudo bow tech thing

where you can like shoot immediately with some cancel tech or whatever idk

[fervent radish]

yeah

[gray apex]

It's pretty inconsistent

hard to do

[fervent radish]

move over gilgamesh, there's a new ME king in the house

[rustic vale]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/795659377755422742/1215384223440048238/IMG_2451.jpg?ex=65fc8dc3&is=65ea18c3&hm=bbf6a78125a2b8dd23a032e60abaebc9ab44af54889d05b265e73b563a7f5dde&

swap attack/special with each other depending on weapon/aspect

blue = you need this to get smthing else important to the build

red = important to the build

[fervent radish]

makes sense

purple rd no ichors?

rough

[rustic vale]

purple rd with hyper sprint

[fervent radish]

yeah but no ichors

[rustic vale]

+100% additive works just fine

More would have been better but

idk I never see ichors when I have rd

[fervent radish]

tragic

me neither, esp with purple rd

[latent moon]

most runs dont get ichors lmao

also chiron doesnt really benefit from wells the same way castpects do

[fervent radish]

i know ichors are just fun, esp with purple rd

[rustic vale]

Wasm’g this rama

[stray shard]

Yoo hades finally coming to mobile yiippee

[latent moon]

only for apple if you have netflix lol

[carmine beacon]

What key boon do you go for? Mirage shot? Heart rend?

[latent moon]

on beo?

you'd use pstatus in the mirror and look for snow burst, demeter attack, or if rng hates you mistral dash

or you can rng into mirage shot instead but that's less consistent since you'd need a 3 god core

[maiden narwhal]

explosive seeking or spread?

or restart because wtf is that

that's lame tho

BUT SO ARE THESE CHOICES

i guess explosive

[rustic vale]

Xpl

[maiden narwhal]

didn't last long enough for it to matter /:

[fervent radish]

Real

[true oak]

i am offered epic slippery shot on beo

the pain is indescribable

[hardy crown]

I just gave a laugh while thinking of this. Someone should make a mod that goes off with Zelda64/link to the past sound effects for when Zagreus swings the Stygian Blade. All the little sounds link makes and I just gained the piercing wave Daedalus upgrade that could make use of the beam sword sound.

[maiden narwhal]

wow i made it to phase 3 dad

he immediately killed me on spawn

[hardy crown]

…phase 3?

[maiden narwhal]

but that's the furthest i've ever gone

[hardy crown]

Oh boy

[maiden narwhal]

right?

em4 is the worst

[hardy crown]

I didn’t know he did phase 3.

Em4?

[maiden narwhal]

haha

you're in the wrong channel, i think

i'm sorry for the spoilers

[hardy crown]

It’s fine

I’ve done this like 106 times now.

[maiden narwhal]

cool

extreme measures goes up to 4

not sure what unlocks it

but it gives you superdad

throws his dog at you

has a phase 3

[latent moon]

Credits and buying it from the contractor

[hardy crown]

I don’t think I ever set it to 4. Just 3. Usually 2.

I just got the 15 titan blood award from checklisting everything off the pact of punishment at least once.

[maiden narwhal]

oh, nice

did you leave heightened security for last?

i was so annoyed when forging all bonds didn't give me anything

not even a steam achievement

not even new dialogue

[hardy crown]

No the last one was Lasting Consequences.

I probably picked some of the meaner ones paired with the sword hoping to get the life restore ability for 60% life total loss.

[maiden narwhal]

i think the meta says vamp sword is terrible

[rustic vale]

Ιικε τπε сπιβίζ?

[hardy crown]

It’s not great but it can help imo

[rustic vale]

[hardy crown]

You gotta get Hermes to drop 30% extra speed on it.

[rustic vale]

Nah

[maiden narwhal]

meta also says hermes attack is terrible

[hardy crown]

Tell meta I said thanks

[rustic vale]

… because it is frankly

Sorry I finally turned off the greek ketbowrd to

Be able to explain things

The reason cursed blade sucks is because it doesn’t apply to dash strikes and that’s the main way to get your sword dps

[maiden narwhal]

aaah

of course

[rustic vale]

So it essentially is a pure hp down unless you want to throw dps

[maiden narwhal]

you never actually attack with sword

ever

except arthur i guess

[rustic vale]

Same reason why hermes speed is good on exclusively rail

[mint coral]

Arthur C.slash

[rustic vale]

and is only “good” afrer you considerr hyper sprint -> rush devivery, greatest reflex, etc

[maiden narwhal]

i never realised it didn't apply to dash strike

i couldn't understand why they kept saying it's no

[rustic vale]

Well uh, try to imagine how it would

[maiden narwhal]

i mean

obv never stopped to think about it

also you do get a bunch of whacks in with shield

actually those are all dash strikes too

nvm

[rustic vale]

Most whacks are dahs whacks

[maiden narwhal]

yes

[rustic vale]

Or charging & charging isn5 influenced by atk speed

[maiden narwhal]

goddamn why does hermes even have that boon

i'ma put epic on eris

see what happens

[mint coral]

Both flourishes are at least funny for the few niches they have

[rustic vale]

Because the devs weren’t thinking about optimal play when they made boons

[maiden narwhal]

poseidon sword?

[mint coral]

Pulv blow swift strike

[rustic vale]

That’s like asking why bronze skin exists

[mint coral]

Also Cskewer with flourish feels pretty good

[maiden narwhal]

bronze skin is bae

[rustic vale]

Chiron with flourisu

[maiden narwhal]

bronze skin hs all day

[rustic vale]

can chain

In the ends it’s still chiron

[maiden narwhal]

wait is that the safety from traps or the damage reduction

[rustic vale]

But you can chain concentrated with a purple

[mint coral]

Dmg reduction

[maiden narwhal]

what on earth is wrong with that?

[mint coral]

Sure footing is traps

[maiden narwhal]

and it stacks nicely with aphro

i think she gives it too?

[rustic vale]

Ur welcome (I hope the info was useful)

[maiden narwhal]

why would you hate on damage reduction idgi

[maiden narwhal]

mister meta are we

[rustic vale]

…well for swords

Hammerwise

kind of

[maiden narwhal]

i know i was joking

[rustic vale]

My tierlist is the one that floats around (mostly sent by myself but)

[mint coral]

Is pommable

[rustic vale]

Could be last stand instead

[latent moon]

bronze skin doesnt really give that much

[maiden narwhal]

ah

oh

[rustic vale]

Or any other athena boon

[latent moon]

it's not like useful in any situation lmao

[maiden narwhal]

and takes up space that could be used for something else

got it

[mint coral]

Funniest thing of bronze skin is that mettle gives the same dmg reduction

But one is a duo

[maiden narwhal]

well it's a good thing this whole thing came up because til

thanks, meta!

[maiden narwhal]

so turns out if i focus it's doable
i had to focus to clear 25 and i hated it so much
why are 25 and 45 the same

32 and 40 were p sloppy play

and i cleared

[latent moon]

i mean what are you running on 25

[maiden narwhal]

zeus shield

[latent moon]

pact?

[maiden narwhal]

oh

[rustic vale]

Sorry for a second ping (I feel bad but I really do want to spread this info): this is the current meta for sword hammers, given the context that dash strike -> dash strike -> special -> repeat is the optimal dps rotation for sword, that shadow and cursed slash don’t boost your dash strikes, and flurry slash & world splitter mess with your striking. (And hoarding only adds it’s damage after all additive and crit bonuses, dash striking is not a thrust for cruel thrust) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/795659377755422742/1092918262649602058/IMG_3411.png?ex=65b02a73&is=659db573&hm=2beff4db046342150a62e0dd3edb9d62a76d594170fa70e95c2e18ee253a1380&

[maiden narwhal]

mm yeah possibly not a pact from a guide

i was p adamant not to go guide until i cleared 32

[latent moon]

i mean em4 kinda hard lol

and it's not a fight you're used to

[maiden narwhal]

he moves so FAST towards the end of phase 2 wtf

it's not like normal dad phase 2

[latent moon]

yeah

[maiden narwhal]

he won't stop spinning

loolol one of his pots got him that was great

[latent moon]

i mean you're prob just not used to it yet

[maiden narwhal]

i'm thinking of downloading that savestate thing

to practice

but that doesn't sound like fun

games are supposed to be fun

[latent moon]

just run 10 heat em4 lol

or 16 for fo2

[maiden narwhal]

yeah 16

that was my plan after 32

but then i got bored and went to 40

[rustic vale]

Isn’t it wild that 50% of the flurry hammers don’t actually increase attack speed

[maiden narwhal]

that double poke hammer with the sword is the best

all the others are more or less gabbage

[rustic vale]

sword and spear only let you hold down strike to repeatedly strike. Bow gives a boost, and rail intrinsically has that boost cuz it already fires automatically

[maiden narwhal]

hang on i forgot the tier list you posted it up there just now right?

[rustic vale]

yes

[maiden narwhal]

yeah double edge

oh i forgot about wave

wave is wonderful

[rustic vale]

Double nova was going to be moved higher with the cavot that (only if you have training to not accidentally cancel 2nd wave)

[maiden narwhal]

i would put wave higher than the other usefuls maybe idk

[rustic vale]

but aside from that itMs good

[maiden narwhal]

b+

[rustic vale]

Wave is literally the highest

aside from dedge

[maiden narwhal]

how tf you do that?

[rustic vale]

Dash striking before the 2nd wave comes out cancels it

[hardy crown]

Is having two yarn of ariande at the same time bad in any way?

[rustic vale]

Not they only get used one at a time

[maiden narwhal]

i know, i'm saying how do you wait for the second wave lol

train me

is it just a question of waiting for the animation to end?

[rustic vale]

You just have to wait long enough for the 2nd wave to fully come out

[maiden narwhal]

gross

[rustic vale]

I think

I don’t have it

Right

[maiden narwhal]

put it in no

if you have to wait for the second wave it sucks

[rustic vale]

It’s like a split second longer then I usually wait

However

[maiden narwhal]

half a beat throws off everything

[rustic vale]

You don’t have to wait for the 2nd wave to finish

[maiden narwhal]

especially with max fo

[rustic vale]

give me a sec

[maiden narwhal]

i mean ofc you can adapt

but it's just slowing everything down

i wouldn't double nova unless the other two were pure gabbage

[rustic vale]

@lavish sorrel you’re the double nova advocate, not me

[maiden narwhal]

it must do massive damage

to be worth it

[rustic vale]

It was going to be moved to

Just higher than super nova?

I can’t remember

[maiden narwhal]

super nova increases size right?

[latent moon]

yes this is true

[lavish sorrel]

Double nova is like meh-tier on multidash sword

[maiden narwhal]

worst

advocate

ever

[lavish sorrel]

But on monodash it is genuinely good

[rustic vale]

They’re a fresh file runner they only play monodash

[maiden narwhal]

monodash like reflexes?

[rustic vale]

1

Dash

[lavish sorrel]

1 dash, yes

[maiden narwhal]

aah

[rustic vale]

But wait

[maiden narwhal]

so not reflexes

[rustic vale]

Then why does it nattrr

[maiden narwhal]

just one dash

why would you do that

[rustic vale]

You don’t get hammers on FF

[lavish sorrel]

Low% AKA FFTC No Unlocks

Very niche scenario ik

[maiden narwhal]

again but in english?

[rustic vale]

Ok that’s the exact stipulation Imm putting it when I have the time

Lowest amount of stuff completed

While getting to credits

From fresh file

[maiden narwhal]

what is aka fftc?

[rustic vale]

Also known as fresh file to credits with no unlocks

Low% = category name

[maiden narwhal]

oh why did he capitalise aka that was so confusing

[latent moon]

fresh file to credits

[maiden narwhal]

there's a mod that'll give you fresh file without actually starting one?

[latent moon]

no you just start one lol

[rustic vale]

No

[maiden narwhal]

ok

i thought i saw someone say they were doing fresh file bow

[latent moon]

the game gives you 4 save slots, you're just expected to use one of those

[maiden narwhal]

guess i was mistaken

[rustic vale]

That@s a mod

[lavish sorrel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1142115080809488464/1215424246709227570/image0.jpg?ex=65fcb309&is=65ea3e09&hm=89ce97d6b1e053d5690e82ba5d295e3aa353b62416d8be086f831e741ba2ee2e&

[rustic vale]

that’s different

[latent moon]

oh there's a mod for starting weapon tho yeah

[maiden narwhal]

ah ok i wasn't mistaken

because i thought i saw a video

[rustic vale]

Just a seperate thing

[maiden narwhal]

so yeah i did

[lavish sorrel]

AnyWeaponStart is a thing too, yes

[latent moon]

you can also use the bow on the 2nd run and that still qualifies for fresh file

since it's tracked by real time

[rustic vale]

Just

Sub0 sword

[maiden narwhal]

fresh file just..

how

[rustic vale]

and grab bow

[latent moon]

just win

[maiden narwhal]

it's so hard

[rustic vale]

Practice practice

[latent moon]

takes a lot of time lmao

and practice

[rustic vale]

Alexca what’s your highest streak

[maiden narwhal]

haha i tried a coupe of times and gave up after the bombers

[lavish sorrel]

It died at 15 and I retired so I don't plan on going back to it

[maiden narwhal]

15 successful fresh file clears in a row?

[rustic vale]

Yes

[maiden narwhal]

good grief

there's a verified leaderboard for that?

i certainly hope so

[lavish sorrel]

No

[maiden narwhal]

wow

he did it just to see if he could

not even competing

[lavish sorrel]

I was the first out of two people so far to track that

[maiden narwhal]

is it hell mode?

[lavish sorrel]

Nah

Hell mode unfun

[maiden narwhal]

yeah that's the one where you lose your corpse

and all your loot

[lavish sorrel]

It's just regular FF but you have to play 50% slower because every mistake is 50% more punishing

[maiden narwhal]

ooh

maybe that's why i sucked

i was playing it like normal

but with no mirror

obv that's not going to work

ok i'll try again

[lavish sorrel]

Wait I think you are confusing two things here

[maiden narwhal]

fresh file has no mirror right?

i can't remember

ok so no, not confusing anything

[lavish sorrel]

Ok cool.

[maiden narwhal]

was just saying i was playing the fresh file like i would play a normal game, with a full mirror

[maiden narwhal]

now i'll try again, but this way

[lavish sorrel]

I just want to point out that clearing the game on run 1 requires dedication, tons of it. If you don't feel up to the task, there is no shame in calling it quits. It's very satisfying to complete but also quite the journey to get there.

If you ever do wish to look into Fresh File running, there are a few resources out there to help.

https://scientific-paprika-b40.notion.site/Hades-Fresh-File-First-Run-Guide-2d647029f5c34252acbd38ad5e54b221
(This written guide by Sophie is a good place to start)
Also join the Hades Speedrunning Discord, it may be of use.

[last veldt]

I've done a run 2 escape twice, but a run 1 escape is a lot harder.

[mint coral]

I've done run 3

[gray apex]

run 3 comfy

[shut mulch]

i just did a goofy run with hera and cold embrace (and stygian soul and parting shot)

it was funny and a relatively comfy clear but i'm still not sure it's practical 😭

i also hella would have died with tight deadline above 1 lmao getting through demeter cast to cold embrace was painful

(charged volley carried me to that)

[last veldt]

Hera Cold Embrace might be one of the only times I'd take Cold Embrace at all tbh. At least you can place it remotely.

[rustic vale]

tbh if Cold Embrace has been logged in your

game stats

more the once

somethig went horribly wrong

[drowsy linden]

money

misclick

ap

[proper tusk]

whats wrong with cold embrace lmfao

[drowsy linden]

locks crystal clarity

[proper tusk]

ok but crystal clarity is more boring

[latent moon]

crystal clarity makes the beams actually useful even if it is more boring

cold embrace is kinda useless lmao

[fervent radish]

Cold embrace is a league of legends ability

It’s a shen blade

It doesn’t belong in hades

Tbf 70% of hades doesn’t belong in hades

[brisk trail]

.............

[proper tusk]

augh

nearly cleared a RI4 run and then i got a frame drop and died to dad spin attack when he was almost dead

[covert hare]

i cant believe greek culture copied hades

[drowsy linden]

i cant believe supergiant copied this game called bastion

[tepid light]

leave my main alone

[fervent radish]

No hate for shen, but that’s literally what cold embrace is

😂

[tepid light]

but not actually

twilight assault > cold embrace

[fervent radish]

Prob

Idk how shen works

[tepid light]

there's an easy way to fix that

[fervent radish]

I will not play league of legends

I’m too addicted to hades

[latent moon]

Add Zagreus to league

I still won't play the game but it'd be neat

[jagged hamlet]

Isn't he too polite to belong?

[latent moon]

Is everyone in league mean lmao

[hardy crown]

Is there so much subtlety in this game that when you’re in Elysium and the next two doors are of different sizes that there might be more enemies in the room with the bigger door?

[stone rune]

no

also arent the doors all the same size

[hardy crown]

Not always.

They just are most of the time.

[stone rune]

what chambers have different sized doors

[latent moon]

i feel like if they look different it's prob because of the isometric view

[hardy crown]

I feel like it’s almost exactly the same but I kinda think the larger one has like 2 millimeters of extra length when comparing to the same points of distance on the smaller one.

Maybe it’s just one of those things where your eyes/brain fool you into seeing something a certain way.

[steep condor]

i think that's an issue w the view

the only difference is in laurel color (took me a while to notice that (only like 200 hours)) and symbols like for mini bosses

[wicked sage]

rng hates me

wont give me meg so i can give her nectar

[cosmic summit]

Hey

[maiden narwhal]

hi

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/879755279481339975/1215648552148144158/image.png?ex=65fd83f0&is=65eb0ef0&hm=bd9790e963e438a56f11701db12b9e1cf3d91d655ff923234f2487b30f4c5b61&

what would sophie do?

although sophie more apropos to a purge situation

anyway

which do?

dash more useful than special right now?

for my playstyle certainly because you can't miss with dash but you sure as hell can with the special

just picked up delta chamber btw

@latent moon wyt

[cosmic summit]

Idk u don't even have the game i just love it

[maiden narwhal]

i wasn't talking to you
i just said hi in reply to your hey

none of the rest was for you

also, you should get the game

[cosmic summit]

Need to get money

[maiden narwhal]

that would help tremendously, yes

nobody around to tell me where to go
maybe aphro now tooth asphodel and hope for poseidon to roll around again

[rose roost]

go for dash

[maiden narwhal]

boo

[rose roost]

it's the bis for eris

[maiden narwhal]

pos actually did show up again, but he was in heroic erubus so i skipped it

even if i clear, which is highly unlikely, it'll take so long td will get me

[maiden narwhal]

i know but pathing aphro means i don't need to force another god

since i do want her on my special

eh maybe i should have, tho

and gone sea storm

ah well

[rose roost]

u don't really need sea storm

u just want more zeus

jolted, double strike, the lego

billowing also pretty good and save rolls for hermes

u should prolly also join speedcord since you're going for high heat

you'll get better and thorough advice and can also ask for vod reviews

[maiden narwhal]

thanks, will do

is that a whole new discord channel, or a thingy in this one?

i think the thingies are channels
and the discords are servers?

whatever

[rose roost]

diff server, should be pinned in #self-promotion

[maiden narwhal]

will look

but i'm not interested in speedrunning

well i am. but rn i just want 45 heat

but it forces me to be fast cause td3

anyway what i want is the speedrunner's skill. efficiency. kill fast

why do the louts ALWAYS hit me?

do they have ..

what's it called

sturdy yeah

do they have sturdy if they're armoured/

it didn't look like my attack stunned

[rose roost]

armored enemies can't be stunned

[maiden narwhal]

how tf they always hit me

aaaaah

rage

ok good to know

[rose roost]

and only zag can be sturdy with HS and other stuff

[maiden narwhal]

wym

mobs can't get it with the benefits?

[rose roost]

louts with fo2 are scary

[maiden narwhal]

two of them with armour
whack whack 36 hp gg

i feel so noob getting hit by tartarus things

but they can be hard af

glad it's not just me

[rose roost]

no

[maiden narwhal]

em furies are for real harder than heroes

[rose roost]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hades_gamepedia_en/images/6/6a/BP_perks_explanation.png/revision/latest?cb=20200411020219

all bp perks

[maiden narwhal]

by the time you get to heroes your build is moving along nicely

what does sturdy give them that armour doesn't?

can't be stunned and..

[mint coral]

Sturdy is no stun/dmg reduction

[maiden narwhal]

ah, reduction

how does dash strike invulnerability work?

with rail

[upper wolf]

you take delta chamber

done

[maiden narwhal]

no i mean how specifically

i know with delta you do it without needing to know how to do it

but i want to be able to on purpose

not by accident

[rose roost]

you don't get iframes while dash-strike

[maiden narwhal]

oh

so it's only a delta chamber thing

[rose roost]

yes

[maiden narwhal]

cool

[rose roost]

that applies for all aspects btw

[maiden narwhal]

so i shouldn't charge at mobs emptying my clip into the like i'm untouchable

[rose roost]

if u do any input while dashing the iframes go away

[rose roost]

you shouldn't

[maiden narwhal]

i mean i do that anyway
but now i won't expect to not get hit in the process

so it works for 3 bullets? 1 second?

[upper wolf]

it works for delta chamber

the hammer

it's all

pretty sure it's just a "bug" ?

[maiden narwhal]

ok i got that but how long does your invulnerability last?

sorry alex lol

[lavish sorrel]

same as dash iframes iirc

nw lol

[maiden narwhal]

ok got it

and they're supposed to be dead by then

i guess

if you timed your special right

[lavish sorrel]

oh wait you mean rail iframes

[maiden narwhal]

yes

delta

it reloads after 3 shots

[lavish sorrel]

in thatc ase, yes

full dash iframes because delta is bugged

[rose roost]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1130367855154708480/1215659355182211113/image.png?ex=65fd8e00&is=65eb1900&hm=c8ece7a230921b7f2a11525efa05fd5b47a32fe310ab04986a0dcacdb00b112b&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

from c-gull

tldr: it lasts as long as your dash does

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12i4n92aJAw

and this is the video they're talking abt

[maiden narwhal]

what do they mean by linger

a normal dash is 1 second?

so the invulnerability is.. how long?

with a normal dash strike

ok i watched the video

[rose roost]

there is no invulerability with normal dash strike

[maiden narwhal]

i get it now

normal dash i meant

[rose roost]

however much time ur dash takes, I dunno the exact time your dash lasts either

[maiden narwhal]

how do you best exploit it?

hold down attack or burst fire?

i mean it's always three bullets anyway

does it make a difference?

holding down attack is super noob in cs

so i'm trained not to do that

but if delta reloads every three bullets
and always fires 3 bullets
then does it make a difference at all, if you're holding attack down or not?

[rose roost]

u just hold attk and keep dash-striking lol

since u don't have to worry abt reloading at all

[maiden narwhal]

well that's just..

how can i say i ran 40 heat when i did it with delta chamber 🙁

[upper wolf]

there's a trick

I'll show you

here

"I ran 40 heat with delta chamber, that hammer is amazing"

[maiden narwhal]

that's not a trick that's lies

"that hammer is bugged and nobody bothered to fix it!"

is more like it

[upper wolf]

true, I don't have 40 heat win on rail

so for me it's a lie

[maiden narwhal]

haha

[upper wolf]

also if bugs were important 90% of speedrunning would not exist lol

[maiden narwhal]

and i highly doubt i could 40 heat without delta

now i gotta do it again and avoid the hammer

ugh

[maiden narwhal]

eh as long as everyone plays by the same rules, that's the rules

but i, personally, don't consider a bugged run a real run

do it without the exploit

that's your real speed

[rose roost]

speedrunning historically included bugs and exploits🤷‍♂️

[maiden narwhal]

hm

[rose roost]

that's like the whole point use bugs and glitches(community approved) to go as fast as possible

[maiden narwhal]

well some things sure

like hitting escape at choices to shave off seconds

[lavish sorrel]

entirety of beowulf disappears into the void beneath

[maiden narwhal]

or doing em2 lernie so it goes faster

that's legit

[rose roost]

and like delta chamber is not even meta for speedrunning

[lavish sorrel]

it's very safe so used on high heat

[maiden narwhal]

but i don't care about that

i don't consider my heat clear valid if i did it with bugged safety built in

that's all i'm saying

[rose roost]

it just comes done what the community has agreed upon

[maiden narwhal]

that's what i said!

[maiden narwhal]

here

[rose roost]

that's fine that's your pov if you're fine with it no problem

[lavish sorrel]

I once considered my beowulf 50 clear invalid because it was done on beowulf, but I have long moved on from that. a clear is a clear.

no external tools were used, you just played the game and won

[rose roost]

if you're personal rules are diff from others that's fine

but don't feel bad or think your run is invalid bcuz of a not so significant glitch

[maiden narwhal]

that's what i also said 😭

i get told repeatedly that i talk too fast

[rose roost]

it still took lot of effort and skill to clear a run

[maiden narwhal]

am i typing too fast?

[maiden narwhal]

sure

nobody's denying that

[lavish sorrel]

is it time I bring out the Steam achievement stats again?

[rose roost]

no you're fine lol, sometimes things can be misinterpreted so just say "imo" or "for me" whenever u state ur opinion on things/rules

[lavish sorrel]

tbf a "I, personally" was said

[rose roost]

like here if you said "imo" at the end or "for me" it won't be misinterpreted by others

[maiden narwhal]

flurry seeking or hazard?

[rose roost]

eris?

flurry

[lavish sorrel]

flurry is fine, seeking is dogwater and hazard is False Side's worst nightmare

so yeah, flurry

[stiff obsidian]

Seeking

Begyer

Flurry locks out delta

[lavish sorrel]

oh wow didn't know that

fascinating

[maiden narwhal]

it'll be misinterpreted by people who don't know what "imo" is

just like you don't know what "i, personally" means

i can't talk to everyone's level

so i'll just talk the way i talk

and you figure it out

or not

[maiden narwhal]

but seeking is such garbage

id rather go hazard and time dash strikes until i die

idk i think if i get those kind of hammer choices again in tart, i'll just restart

to hell with pure rng

ok if i somehow finish 45 without delta

[lavish sorrel]

guess which category has no hammers

[maiden narwhal]

that will count as i can do 40 too

i am not optimistic 45 is honestly kinda hellish

i don't even know why

the max hl i think

[lavish sorrel]

difficulty increases exponentially as yk

[maiden narwhal]

funniest thing is, at the end of all the rubbish i'm struggling through..

there's em4 dad

[lavish sorrel]

why are we playing 45 with EM4

[upper wolf]

sick guitar riff

[tepid light]

BECAUSE WE ARE REAL GAMERS

[raw thunder]

Hey, what does forging a bond with another character mean? Is it doing their favour?

[tepid light]

GET ON MY LEVEL AND START EM4 AT BELOW 20 HEAT

[maiden narwhal]

because ap and ri are both awful

[maiden narwhal]

it's giving them nectar and eventually ambrosia until all hearts in codex are full

[raw thunder]

Oh damn ok

[lavish sorrel]

you have other options

EM4 becomes a near-must at 50+, and even then some don't use it

[maiden narwhal]

js and cp mean i get hit by td3

repeatedly

[stone rune]

don’t

[tepid light]

well, as myself and many others have said before:

preference, and personal comfort

em4 isn't easy but it's not hard to believe that some people (myself included) still prefer it over certain other heat modifiers

[maiden narwhal]

this never occured

but now everything is fixed

[stone rune]

yeah i know

i once was struggling to take the directional derivative of a function

and i asked my friend for help

and he said i had to just do it

and i immediately solved it

ever since then i believe in the do it

[tepid light]

oh damn

@lavish sorrel EM4, just do it

[stone rune]

it’s true

it’s that easy

[lavish sorrel]

so true bestie just beat fresh file first try while you're at it too, and 64 heat

[stone rune]

simply complete it

[tepid light]

i gotchu bestie

[stone rune]

i don’t know why more people haven’t picked up on this yet

[maiden narwhal]

trip bomb or piercing?

[tepid light]

triple bomb

[maiden narwhal]

what if it was coincidence

[stone rune]

it wasn’t

[maiden narwhal]

then you based your entire life on a lie

[stone rune]

i know because

[void vigil]

I find that complaining always works
Simply complain about not being able to clear 64 heat

[tepid light]

why am i not a mod yet i am complaining about this waaah waaah i want mod waah waaaah

[void vigil]

Maybe then you will finally get to see the secret mod VC

[tepid light]

WAAAAH WAAAAAAAAH

[brisk trail]

.............

[quasi dust]

Question: Could you theoretically high five bouldy?

I mean he doesn't really have hands you'd just be left hanging like ✋

[devout torrent]

i mean you could slap him but that’s mean

[quasi dust]

I would never slap bouldy

[proper tusk]

palm him like a bowling ball

[quasi dust]

How dare you accuse me of such a thing

[devout torrent]

imagine rolling up to the bowling alley with bouldy on a leash

“this is my bowling ball guys i brought my own”

[quasi dust]

Lmfao

Poor bouldy

[lavish sorrel]

I now have in my head this image of Zag jumping at Bouldy at mach 1 with his hand ahead to high-5, hitting , then dying on the spot

[quasi dust]

Goddamnit that image is gonna live rent free in my head for the next three months that's so funny

[stiff obsidian]

I would

[quasi dust]

Y'all hate him fr

What did he do

[fervent radish]

+2% ambguity bonus

[maiden narwhal]

now that i know how delta chamber is broken, i'm more or less untouchable

this is dumb

[fervent radish]

real

[stiff obsidian]

Wait until you experience modded

[fervent radish]

^

[maiden narwhal]

they force delta?

to think i missed the safety of my shield lol

[stiff obsidian]

You can if you want

[latent moon]

yeah lol

most do for heat

[maiden narwhal]

i understand all sorts of mods and exploits for speed runs

why not

but for heat?

how do you feel good clearing high heat when you force a permashield

oh well

as long as you're having fun i guess

[stiff obsidian]

If you are going to reset for delta first chamber

Why not cut down the resets by just forcing it?

Same results either way

[maiden narwhal]

i had the option of going cluster

but i went delta

i'm weak

[maiden narwhal]

yes

i stopped doing m.e because it was too easy

[stiff obsidian]

Better option imo

[maiden narwhal]

i guess i'll stop doing delta too eventually

[maiden narwhal]

i want to clear just once without it

then i don't care what i do

i'll start running em4 on 16

[stiff obsidian]

At a certain point delta chamber doesn't give you a free win

[maiden narwhal]

well this is not a free win by any means

i still go down to furies and lernie

and mobs still take skill to kill

[stiff obsidian]

Yes

[maiden narwhal]

but hands can't grab me and louts can't whack me

let's see what elysium is like

i've only reached three times looolol

countless runs go to carelessness in tartarus

where even the splitters can kill you

[stiff obsidian]

Witches unironically hardest enemies in tartarus lmao

[maiden narwhal]

when they have speed oh man

i think that's the one that looks like thorns but isn't

diablo thorns

[latent moon]

well they still die so not really a permashield lmao

you're also still dying too

[maiden narwhal]

cause when i think i have a permashield i play dumb af lmao

it's v counterproductive

actually

also, because i don't find delta chamber v often

[latent moon]

i mean sure but game's still hard lol

[maiden narwhal]

it absolutely is

but i feel like if/when i clear 45, people will look twice and say "oh, delta chamber"

and they'd kinda be right

[latent moon]

the devs left bugs in the game and we're gonna use them

[maiden narwhal]

hahaha

technically correct is the best kind

[stiff obsidian]

Not really, no. One plays heat without delta chanber

[latent moon]

or die from them in some cases

[stone rune]

i cleared 64 with hazard spread

[stiff obsidian]

Pics or it didn't happen

[maiden narwhal]

yeah and that's an achievement that's my point

[latent moon]

ngl i only go "oh delta chamber" if they said they somehow did a hitless/damageless dad fight lmao

[maiden narwhal]

doing it with delta kinda detracts

[stiff obsidian]

Not reallt

[maiden narwhal]

haha fair

but someone said "ah, the safety of lots of dashes and delta chamber" when i cleared 40 [with epic hermes dash]

i can't remember who

[stone rune]

let me find the pic

[maiden narwhal]

but they had a point

[latent moon]

i mean yeah that's prob a decent reason why you did clear tho

[maiden narwhal]

exactly

[latent moon]

not your fault they left bugs in the game lmao

[stone rune]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1215734584705024020/image.png?ex=65fdd410&is=65eb5f10&hm=82757c4342e157067a65319987a44907fdd9952875893506e58a66a13971306d&

[latent moon]

just use them

there's a reason why everyone uses beo

[stiff obsidian]

Woah that's crazy

[maiden narwhal]

using reaccs with mouse is weird

discord on pc is weird

[stiff obsidian]

I mean half the difficulty of heat is managing to find the op stuff that lets you clear

[latent moon]

the 62 eris has epic dashes and divine protection

so like just use delta lmao

[maiden narwhal]

is divine bugged?

[latent moon]

no one cares whether you cleared with or without delta they just care that you cleared

[stiff obsidian]

Divine protection is the legendary

[maiden narwhal]

yes but is it bugged

[latent moon]

no

it's just very good and insane to get on ap2

[lavish sorrel]

No but it means you can take 1 hit per room, or several in some rooms / dad

[maiden narwhal]

oh they had delta too

[lavish sorrel]

Which is freaking insane

[latent moon]

every high heater uses delta so yes

[maiden narwhal]

ah i forgot about the ap2

yeah wtf

[latent moon]

high heat without delta is insane

[maiden narwhal]

i barely got protection when i was low heat

[latent moon]

and tbh the only person i can see who would do that would be retrash since he plays unmodded and does whatever the hell he wants

[lavish sorrel]

AP2 RI3

[lavish sorrel]

LMFAO he really does

[maiden narwhal]

no mirror lmao

[stiff obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/locked-up-im-here-with-you-head-lock-youre-locked-w-ith-me-gif-17677370

Gives me this energy

[maiden narwhal]

play ap2 repeatedly until something sticks is a nice strategy

[latent moon]

sounds about right

ap2 is the main reason why 64 wasn't cleared earlier tbh

[maiden narwhal]

it's a stupid pact in an rng based game

[stiff obsidian]

I want to clear 62 at some point of time

Might take a year

Or more

[maiden narwhal]

you've cleared 60?

wow

[stiff obsidian]

Not yet lmfao

[maiden narwhal]

oh what's highest? 54?

[latent moon]

tbf i think what people hate the most about it is that it shows you what you missed lmao

i believe he did 56

[stiff obsidian]

58 rn

[latent moon]

oh nvm lmao

what pacts did you not take

[stiff obsidian]

Em4

[latent moon]

em3 ri3?

dang lmao

[stiff obsidian]

If it's em4 it's 62, and it has the build and timer for it too

Except +dash

It was monodash

[maiden narwhal]

lol yes that's highly unnecessary
but i mean the way the entire game is structured, with builds and synergies, especially when it comes to duos and legendarys..

[latent moon]

fair

[maiden narwhal]

ap2 just seems out of place

like not thought out

[latent moon]

i dont think the game devs expected anyone to do 64 lol

or get anywhere past like 40

or even 50 for that matter

[maiden narwhal]

if there's a game you can't beat it's a bad game

[latent moon]

you dont need to beat 64 to beat the game

[maiden narwhal]

but i mean. every crevice

every rock

it might be highly improbable

[latent moon]

tbf i dont think they expected the game to do this well lmfao

[maiden narwhal]

but it should be doable

haha

did bastion do well?

it's kind of the same art and grid

[latent moon]

like the last in game thing is 32 heat, and they assumed it would be extremely hard for everyone (rightfully so) and they probably didn't think people would be playing it for years

[maiden narwhal]

even elite was beatable

[latent moon]

which is why there's so many pact options, so people can just experiement and see what works

[maiden narwhal]

ah that makes sense

[latent moon]

and then turns out the game got mega popular, people kept playing for years and obv got better the more they played

[maiden narwhal]

it's probably only the 2% who want to see if they can 64 anyway

[latent moon]

and oops 64 got beat lmao

[maiden narwhal]

yeah it's only like v recently that tetris got beat

because of the roll technique

and pacman took ages before someone finally managed

there's supposed to be an unpassable level in pacman where the code goes haywire and everything scrambles

lmao i think that guy beat that level too

[latent moon]

yeah if hades wasn't nearly as interesting and loved by the community, hardly any people would even try to beat 64 or even go past 32

[maiden narwhal]

well it was goty

[latent moon]

yeah bc people loved the game lmao

[maiden narwhal]

i think most games, very few in the community push the limits of score/achievement

[latent moon]

yeah true

[maiden narwhal]

but also most games are not roguelikes, and not as enjoyable as hades

the replay value is 🤌

more so than most other roguelikes i've played

[latent moon]

it prob would've happened eventually at some point even if the game didnt have such a large community, but it prob would've taken way longer

[maiden narwhal]

maybe any

[stiff obsidian]

Wasn't Tetris beaten recently as well

[latent moon]

yeah like a month or so ago i think

[maiden narwhal]

yes

[stiff obsidian]

Oh

[maiden narwhal]

haha

they came up with the new controller technique

to roll for that extra speed

[stiff obsidian]

Yeah that was funny

[maiden narwhal]

could anyone circle strafe jump?

or bunnyhop in cs?

[stiff obsidian]

I have played like 4 games in my whole life

Cs was not one of them

[maiden narwhal]

this they started doing in quake3 rocket arena and unreal tournament

cs 6.24beta was the best cs ever made

everything after that sucked

[stiff obsidian]

If mobile games count then I've played holl climb racing 1

[maiden narwhal]

1.0 was a disaster

[stiff obsidian]

I was even an admin in the world record server iirc

[maiden narwhal]

1999

anyway so cs didn't used to be so slow and lame
it was fastpaced and exscellent

then people learned how to bunny hop
you could literally reach the bad guys' base in dust before they had bought weapons, even if they bound keys

so then to counter that, valve put in this idiotic mechanic where after you jump, you slow down

ruined the entire game

forever

[maiden narwhal]

no, gamers don't consider mobile games games

especially if they're gachas

does holl climb racing have microtransactions?

[stiff obsidian]

Yeah but nothing that helps in-game lol

[maiden narwhal]

oh cosmetics

not chests?

then not a gacha

[stiff obsidian]

There are chests

But for completely useless garage stuff

[maiden narwhal]

wtf

like.. skins?

[stiff obsidian]

U know the garage

Where u can build ur own vehicle

That meme thing

[maiden narwhal]

right

oh, no

i don't know that

i unplugged from the zeitgeist in 2014

it is a privilige old people who hate people have

hang on i'll google it

[stiff obsidian]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1078128914146279456/1215739817250390057/Screenshot_2024-03-09-00-45-32-03_c94b9ca4c6488f0e3e176fa250424ec0.jpg?ex=65fdd8ef&is=65eb63ef&hm=5d5eb5ab4d90557037430863f63fb5c3557ab57ba132cd7eeb24e77c0af04b4a&

[maiden narwhal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/879755279481339975/1215740239335788584/image.png?ex=65fdd954&is=65eb6454&hm=cc342d041474fccaeedba2266c958bbe167bb5fb8216d00b7fe7d79384bf0af5&

lmao wtf is this

hahaha

[maiden narwhal]

oh it's one of those temple run type games?

i can't remember what they're called

[maiden narwhal]

i don't think this is what you were talking about but it was the first google hit and it's funny af

[maiden narwhal]

ok so what do they spend money on here?

[stiff obsidian]

Just coins and diamonds

Stuff you can easily grind out anyway

[maiden narwhal]

so you can't be p2w?

don't the coins and diamonds give them car upgrades?

[stiff obsidian]

Yea

But it's single player game man

It's like if there were microteansactions in Hades for Titan blood

[maiden narwhal]

oh it's not competitive

well it is. there's a leaderboard

people are spending to save time

i do that

don't have time to grind

unless the grinding is fun, like in an arpg

and presumably an mmorpg

i've never played one

grinding in hades isn't fun

i remember my first file, i was at a point where i needed to do runs for styx blood

that was garbage

[stiff obsidian]

The point is it's irrelevant since at the point it's competitive you have everything maxed

[maiden narwhal]

you made top of world leaderboard?

[stiff obsidian]

And they don't directly benefit you midrun like a powerup or anything

[maiden narwhal]

as ftp?

[stiff obsidian]

I didn't rlly play that game competitively lmao

I just helped set up the server and stuff for submitting records

[maiden narwhal]

aah

all games are competitive!

animal crossing is competitive

[stiff obsidian]

I wonder if there's a fireboy and watergirl speedrun community

[maiden narwhal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/879755279481339975/1215742899766165585/Screenshot_2024-03-09-00-57-48-98_b5a5c5cb02ca09c784c5d88160e2ec24.jpg?ex=65fddbce&is=65eb66ce&hm=1c2271c8b6daddb93eaa665a33a43f0b28601275d4d7f60b68026cdfbd0db820&

this?

[stiff obsidian]

Yes

How do u not know it

[maiden narwhal]

how would i know it?