h1-discussion

[rustic vale]

And I died to something I’d either never died to before, or when I did Hypnos had a seperately flagged dialogue

[covert hare]

great, the 3 options i have for hammer

are 3 F tiers

[rustic vale]

What weapon

[covert hare]

sword

[rustic vale]

Which 3 are they?

[covert hare]

flurry rush, cursed slash, and the one that turns main attack in a big cut

[rustic vale]

World Splitter is the least negative one

You can just avoid the entire part by dash striking

[covert hare]

yeah but still very low tier

not so fun when you get oneshot more than you can heal

[rustic vale]

Yeah but it does have that aspect of being negative

Hence why I threw it in there on the far left of actively negative

Bananas has a lower quality screenshot of it in the 32 heat guide

[drowsy linden]

flursed is still slow

[covert hare]

if i wanted a low max health " fun " run i would just use Guan yu

[rustic vale]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/795659377755422742/1092918262649602058/IMG_3411.png?ex=659db573&is=658b4073&hm=c13ef1aa9ae8cd2f2be657a125165367e66753149b78a626c8f49ebea4cd0fdc&

[drowsy linden]

i love wave

[rustic vale]

If you’re doing optimal sword rotations, you dash out before the second wave

and then the second special doesn’t actually… go out

Me?

I’m Shackle bestest keepsake

Fair though

It’s been like several months

potentially

It sounds like something I did

[opaque fable]

i cannot believe i just damage raced dad

[rustic vale]

except uh

I did not ever complete 50 heat

[opaque fable]

didn't think that i could unga this hard but this game is pretty good

[marsh merlin]

ok either im very unlucky or duos are insanely rare because this is looking to be the third run in a row without even getting merciful end

[rustic vale]

Duos are not that rare

[marsh merlin]

yes

i had athena special and ares atk both by asphodel

and im at end of elysium without the duo

no

im running sword with nem

i always do

if thats what you mean

[rustic vale]

That was not me

[marsh merlin]

anyway i beat heroes

17mins for styx

hooray

[rustic vale]

I was Shackle Bestest Keepsake

[marsh merlin]

im so excited to not get merciful end during styx and then do a THIRD merciful end run where i dont get the duo

[covert hare]

" you made friends along the way " literally nothing changed at all

or maybe its just bad dialogue rng

[rustic vale]

I was just checking to see if I actually did do this

You pinged me 92 times in builds

Pretty sure most were replies

I don’t remember anything significant either

I just remember you existed because you have the same name and pfp

[marsh merlin]

and its official i literally cannot get merciful end this run

my god

THREE RUNS IN A ROW where i dont get merciful end

[mint coral]

ME moment

[marsh merlin]

lets just hope i can beat hades without it again

[rustic vale]

Trying to load something

Because I @ed you telling you you needed to do something at somepoint

But I was replying to a different image from Jazz

[marsh merlin]

gonna be completely honest i dont know many other good builds

i use sword

like always

[rustic vale]

Loading it is error on error

Just use smair

Or shackle

Possibly

[marsh merlin]

i dont know what heart rend is btw

[rustic vale]

fr

[marsh merlin]

what

[rustic vale]

I did like every aspect w/ shackle & no boons @ 20 heat but then like hit a wall with 40 heat and left

[marsh merlin]

who is arti i genuinely cant tell who that is

artemis?

oh

[rustic vale]

Artimes

[opaque fable]

best god

[marsh merlin]

ill try that after this run although i dont have either keepsake so ill need to get those first

wdym by that

progression on what

on what

the run im doing rn is 3 heat

[opaque fable]

would dio be a good idea if i'm trying for crystal clarity?

[marsh merlin]

im just going up by 1 each time for bounties

[opaque fable]

3 heat without all the god keepsakes?

[rustic vale]

I mean it doesn’t really add anything

And maybe that’s ideal

[opaque fable]

well he's in my shop

[marsh merlin]

i spent most of mine in the house early game because i didnt know god keepsakes were so good

[opaque fable]

dunno if i should buy

nah i spread them out as well

[rustic vale]

I got them all asap to have them all

and to 3 star all of them

[opaque fable]

tart shop (dunno what room but not before fury) 197 gold low heat

uh, cf?

oh none

just EM1

think this is a skip

[rustic vale]

If you open your boon menu you can see the chamber #

In the top right

[opaque fable]

no not yet

[marsh merlin]

wtf who said you better not get 5 sacked at the start of this run

im coming for you

[rustic vale]

Me

[marsh merlin]

because i literally just got 5 sacked

run over istg

i have 0 death defy left, 8 minutes and i still have to go through a whole chamber THEN kill hades

yeah im just gonna restart

[rustic vale]

You have 8 minutes

8 minutes

That’s all the time in the world

[marsh merlin]

im not good enough at the hades fight to kill him with 0 death defies though

[rustic vale]

You have 8 minutes to chip him down

[marsh merlin]

iim not even at his fight

[rustic vale]

And it’s also just Hades fight practice

[marsh merlin]

i just know i got 5 sacked because i got through the fourth one without the sack

[rustic vale]

well then get there and fight him

[marsh merlin]

i still have to go through the 5th chamber and then fight hades

this run is dead

[rustic vale]

Speed through the fifth chamber

[marsh merlin]

the fifth hall thing or however you wanna call it plus hades i can not do with 0 death defy

hell i probably dont even get to hades

[rustic vale]

the run is dead but you can get Hades practice or just die in room 1 of the fifth tunnel

Your choice

[marsh merlin]

im gonna keep going but i probably wont even get to hades anyway

[rustic vale]

where’s your unbreakable human spirit

[marsh merlin]

ok the fifth one was really short for some reason but i still only have like 130 hp for hades

i totally die

wait no 254 from fountain

still no way though

every other time i have beat hades i have used at least one death defy

[rustic vale]

Probably because the bulk of the time in tunnels is from the last room in the tunnel

and fountain tunnels replace that last room

You have time to dodge and dance around him

[marsh merlin]

7:32.97 is my exact timer rn

[rustic vale]

7:32.97 is a very healthy amount of time.

[opaque fable]

respect hades more and you'll live longer to deal damage

just unironically

idk if this changes on EM4 but if you see the windup for his spinning slash you can just not stand around him

too much skill required

[marsh merlin]

somehow got to p2

[opaque fable]

real talk though this game is extremely generous with iframes

[rustic vale]

or like ||Em5 Charon||

[marsh merlin]

i knew it

i died

demeter cast kinda carried

[rustic vale]

Ok but you did a lot better than you thought you would

you’re being really negative about yourself for?

be a bit more positive, you did well

P2 w/ no dd’s

[marsh merlin]

ngl might start grabbing demeter boons more often her cast is actually kinda good

[rustic vale]

Her cast is… certainly a cast

[marsh merlin]

is that in a good way or a bay way

bad

[rustic vale]

It’s definitely a cast that you can use in the hit game Hades

[marsh merlin]

true

[opaque fable]

huh, til you have to take an arti slot to actually get crystal clarity

no wonder i wasn't seeing it with only pp

[rustic vale]

You really really want crystal clairity for it to be usable

[rustic vale]

Very very few duos don’t require cores

[opaque fable]

wow it really is easy to find when you actually pay attention to how to spawn them

3rd boon in the duo and i got it

lernie is about to get it

absolutely shredded

this duo is not proper

[stone rune]

it is still not particularly usable with crystal clarity

[rustic vale]

Jazz

What should I build on zag spear

[stone rune]

i would say

doom attack into shackle

with 4 epic chaos attacks

[rustic vale]

🧠

Can’t wait for the most painful 32 heat of my life

Oh

The game heard you

Purple doom off start into chaos

Bruh

I leave a chamber at 1 hp and then get 3 free rooms to meg fight

I’m entering w/ 1 hp, 1 sd, and a dream

[marsh merlin]

how do you do a heart rend build btw

like who do you want on what

[rustic vale]

artemis and aphrodite

If it’s nem or zag bow, aphrodite on attack

[marsh merlin]

once i get artemis keepsake im considering trying it out

i just wanna know how you build it for when i do

[rustic vale]

Since nem and zag bow have built on crit on their attacks, aphrodite goes on attack for her big damage % and weak application

[opaque fable]

artemis is really flexible

[rustic vale]

Then artemis goes on wherever else really

Both special and cast open

Dash won’t

[marsh merlin]

so really all we need for sure is aphrodite attack and artemis special or cast

[rustic vale]

Then you get heart rend and boon your crits now deal 3.5*

Or was it 4.5*

[marsh merlin]

this already sounds more flexible than merciful end

[rustic vale]

merciful end is restrictive because of it’s strength

Crush shot and trippyc

Can’t remember which has a higher base damage

Slicing can also be pretty damaging with hunting blades and tidal flare on beowulf is tidal flare

[rustic vale]

I’m of half a mind to not ditch shackle because at this point I’m set up for some stupid curse of vengance -> holy shield ME build

Which would be so funny

[stone rune]

trippy ofc

[mint coral]

trippy is higher

[stone rune]

what would even be the point if crush was higher

[rustic vale]

Pombuh

[stone rune]

trippy is like 100/120/140/160

[stone rune]

on other aspects

crush is like 80/90/100/110

or 90/100/110/120

or something

[rustic vale]

My build did not turn out

[opaque fable]

why does zag say "in the name of hades" after he kills dad? is he stupid?

[covert hare]

Wdym random bs go! Is not a build

[rustic vale]

It wasn’t random bs

[rustic vale]

no.

To my understanding it’s more an ironic thing

where he sends Hades to Hades by the authority… of Hades.

[drowsy linden]

my lord hades, i offer this gift of hades to you, provided by hades himself

[rustic vale]

Goodness

I need to learn my iframes because I just learned that serrated makes dodging by simply not being there impossible

[opaque fable]

wait, is targeting system debuffing enemies when i aim at them with my special???

[rustic vale]

Yeah so any damage right up until they get hit

[opaque fable]

this has to be the strongest hammer on the gun

[stone rune]

its called the yeezy build

[stone rune]

its like

top 5 or 6

[opaque fable]

in game or on the weapon

[stone rune]

on rail

cluster rocket triple all better

[latent moon]

tbf it's not because targeting is bad, it's because everything else is a lot better lmao

[stone rune]

delta if not hestia

ricochet piercing if hestia

hazard as well on zag or hestia

spread on zag

[marsh merlin]

are there certain gods that work better with heart rend than others or do the other 2 gods not matter much

[opaque fable]

dio aphro arti gun is cooking a little

[marsh merlin]

i dont play gun tho

im doing nem sword

going for heart rend

do the other 2 gods matter much

or nah

[drowsy linden]

others dont matter too much for specifically heart rend

theyre just general filler gods

[marsh merlin]

so just pick whoever in heart rend as long as you get aphrodite and artemis?

[opaque fable]

athena is never bad for defense if you need it

[drowsy linden]

like:
zeus for smoldering air
ares for urge to krill and blood frenzy
athena for sure footing, bronze skin, and ddash(if you dont want hunter for some strange reason even though it literally increases damage by over 50%)

[rustic vale]

I mean you can throw athena in for deadly reversal for more crit

And you can slip zeus call in for smouldering air as a side bonus

[drowsy linden]

smair is a build in itself

because zeus call is just that good

for heart rend nem, you want:
more dash strike damage(chaos and hunter dash)
heart rend(not needed, but super helpful)
hunter's mark
heartbreak strike
clean kill
maybe hide breaker

[marsh merlin]

thats a lot

all of that is a NEED?

[opaque fable]

wait

[marsh merlin]

wait i read it wrong

[drowsy linden]

a want
its actually not that bad if you have dark foresight from the mirror maxed

[opaque fable]

is heartrend + low tolerance + splitting headache not troll

[drowsy linden]

heart rend is the only one that's hard to get

[marsh merlin]

whats dark foresight again

[drowsy linden]

its too hard to get

[drowsy linden]

second to last(or third) mirror effect, green side

gives +20% to get gold laurels

[marsh merlin]

oh yeah i have that maxed

[opaque fable]

at the very least 2 out of 3 is still good

[drowsy linden]

low tolerance doesnt do much, its just 4.5%

youd probably be better off just purging it

you could, however, do 2 builds at once and add in curse of nausea

[rustic vale]

A want

[opaque fable]

any good duos with zeus rail?

[drowsy linden]

sea storm is a mid choice if youre going tdash

[rustic vale]

Yeah uh stubborn roots

[opaque fable]

🗿

[rustic vale]

[drowsy linden]

stubborn roots epic

[rustic vale]

um actually it’s duo

[drowsy linden]

splitting bolt is technically a duo with zeus and zeus

[rustic vale]

smouldering air is fire on zeus based rail

You can throw aphrodite on special since it’s a big damage special anyways and then either grab zeus or dio call

[upper wolf]

lightning rod good too

[marsh merlin]

are there any good sword builds that dont rely on duo boons because my duo luck recently has sucked

[mint coral]

Heart rend build doesn't really need the duo tbh

At least if you are going aphro atk

[marsh merlin]

ok but im also really bad at heart rend

multiple times in elysium i was VERY close to dying

[mint coral]

Lack of athena I'm guessing?

[marsh merlin]

athena i got literally in tartarus

i got athena before artemis

[mint coral]

Huh then what was the difference with ME?

Dmg?

[marsh merlin]

i stopped playing merciful end because i got 3 runs in a row where i didnt get the duo

and merciful end builds rely a good amount on actually having merciful end

[mint coral]

Up to what point is your mirror developed

Also did you finally get the keepsakes or nah

[marsh merlin]

i have everything on mirror unlocked

[marsh merlin]

yeah the run im on had both of the keepsakes

[mint coral]

Aight, a thing about sword is that you really want double edge

[marsh merlin]

i dont dash attack much tho

[mint coral]

ME can get away w/o it cuz the dmg is from a different sourcr

You should

Standing combo is meh

[marsh merlin]

i dont know what it is about dash attack i just dont like it

maybe i should learn a different weapon if its THAT important for sword

[mint coral]

All weapons pretty much dash strike 24/7

[marsh merlin]

...

all of a sudden i feel motivation dropping

[mint coral]

If you want you could just dash only with tidal dash

That thing can win runs alone

Stuff like lightning rod/smair also can win but those are duos

Could also just experiment

My first winning build was a cast build I got cuz the description of the duo seemed fun

(assuming you have the codex upgrade)

[marsh merlin]

i do

[mint coral]

For sword if you don't wanna dash strikes my bets are the usual flurry + cursed slash or some world splitter build

[marsh merlin]

also is dash strike even that much better than regular because whenever i try using dash strikes it doesnt feel like its that much better

so i dont get why everyone always says its so much better

[mint coral]

Way faster for dps, keeps you moving (tho gotta care for iframes)

And for sword specifically is thanks to double edge once again

[marsh merlin]

i assume other weapons rely on it a little less than sword

but if its all that much better idk what im gonna do because i genuinely dislike playing dash attacks

it feels clunky to me

[mint coral]

is there any reason it feels clunky?

it could be just a thing of practice

[marsh merlin]

idk why it just does

[stiff obsidian]

It does for me too

[mint coral]

are you doing dash + attack at the same time or dash then atk

[marsh merlin]

like i would much rather just do standing combos even with the dps increas

decrease i mean

just because it feels better to play

[mint coral]

fair.

[mint coral]

regarding this, the weapon that would use dash strikes less would be shield ig

either cuz you picked charged shot or playing zeus aspect

where dash strikes are helpful but won't matter as much

rail and fists pretty much spam dash strikes but you can hold the button for those if that helps

spear can avoid it or do the same as fists/rail

first if you go exploding launcher + charged skewer or the latter if you pick flurry jab

bow is pretty much constant dash strikes but ig you could get away without doing them

just take flurry shot is often enough

I think just experimenting will help you win

random stuff + rush delivery can carry most builds

[marsh merlin]

oh my god.

this game actually hates me

last run i got 5 sacked

i just did

AGAIN

jesus christ

im the luckiest unlucky player

i dont think i have to time to kill hades

5 mins for hades

idk if thats enough

[jagged hamlet]

Plenty of time

[marsh merlin]

ok but also my attack is common and level 2

and also heart rend is slow

and i dont even have the duo

i dont think im gonna run heart rend again after this i didnt like it

[stiff obsidian]

Which sword

[marsh merlin]

nem

i won but barely lol

ig thats 3 heat done

i might try going back to running ME and hope bad duo luck doesnt screw me over

because otherwise idk what to do

[latent moon]

ME is more rng than heart rend lmfao

[marsh merlin]

yeah but i also dont like heart rend

[latent moon]

also you dont need heart rend for the build to be strong

ME you kinda need the duo

[marsh merlin]

i tried it and i disliked it

[latent moon]

what dont you like about it

[marsh merlin]

idk i just dont like it

for one it might have just been my build sucking but it felt really slow

[latent moon]

it'll generally be a faster early game through aspho

ely depends on whether or not you got the duo by then

but ME has more damage output than heart rend

it just has more rng

[jagged hamlet]

Might be the lack of dash-strikes. Standing strikes weak and smol

[latent moon]

pros and cons

oh that too

[jagged hamlet]

Dash-strikes have big ol' hitboxes

[marsh merlin]

yeah but i will never dash strike it feels bad and clunky to play imo

[latent moon]

well standing strikes aren't really weak, they're just slow

[marsh merlin]

idc if its the meta i refuse to dash strike

[latent moon]

and ME would benefit more from that than heart rend

which is starting to make a lot of sense now

heart rend needs to be fast dash strikes, ME technically does too but you can get away with a swipe and dash a lot more

yeah that explains why heart rend doesnt feel good

if you're not dash striking, then it wont be great

on the other hand tho

[marsh merlin]

like dash strikes feel horribly clunky imo

[latent moon]

dash striking makes ME like

amazing

like it's considerably a lot stronger on ME than on heart rend

[marsh merlin]

is there even a good build in the whole game where you dont have to dash strike

[latent moon]

technically hestia i suppose

but dash striking gives you mobility and damage

[marsh merlin]

because if there isnt i might just not play because i genuinely hate how dash strikes feel

[rustic vale]

Bad news for you

[latent moon]

charged shot on shields

i mean alos like

[jagged hamlet]

Maybe Hades 2 will have less dash-striking 😮

[latent moon]

dash strikes on all weapons are different

[rustic vale]

Aside from cast builds and cshot shields

[rustic vale]

Tbh I hope not

Imagine standing around

[latent moon]

like on rail you shoot bullets faster when you dash strike lmao

[marsh merlin]

i sure hope so

[mint coral]

if you don't wanna dash strike you can just dash build

[marsh merlin]

because my god do dash strikes feel clunky

[mint coral]

spam one button and win

[latent moon]

dash strikes make bow charge a lot faster, without it then bow is unironically the worst weapon in the game

and borderline unusable

[jagged hamlet]

Bow is just rhythm game!

[rustic vale]

Fr

[marsh merlin]

good thing im not that big of a fan of ranged weapons

[latent moon]

every single person that has complained about bow in the early game doesnt dash strike because they weren't aware of the faster charge

bow is lowkey melee lmao but sure

[rustic vale]

What are ranged weapons?

Every weapon in this game is a melee weapon

[stiff obsidian]

They only rly feel like that on sword

[marsh merlin]

how the hell would a BOW be meelee what

[latent moon]

yeah i was gonna say that sword dash strikes feel weird

[winter plaza]

point blank strike

[rustic vale]

twin and triple

[latent moon]

twin shot and triple shot

[winter plaza]

that too

forget those exist tbh

[latent moon]

and secondary hammers being point blank, perfect, and/or explosive

hera prefers flurry more than those, but you're still like super close range

chiron is more mid-far range tho

[mint coral]

chiron is the only true, damn it

[latent moon]

but other bows are a lot close range

[rustic vale]

Rail is just shotgun, or shotgun , or rain hell from above and dash into said hell

[marsh merlin]

ok if sword is the only weapon with clunky dash strikes then maybe i could just try a different weapon

[latent moon]

maybe

shield dash strikes might feel a bit clunky for you if that's the case tbh

but also

zag and chaos shield kinda suck without a good attack hammer so that's not too big of a deal

zeus is more weird in the technical sense idk how to explain that one lmao

[stiff obsidian]

This is why rail is the true weapon

[latent moon]

it's good but i'm bad at it

hidden needs dash strikes, but not for direct damage per se

if you dont want a clunky dash strike, rail is probably the best weapon for that

and fists

dash strikes for fists just feel way more natural

[marsh merlin]

ngl idk why sword dash strike feels so clunky

it just does

yk

[latent moon]

spear dash strikes kinda suck damage wise but they're not bad

oh yeah def

it's like

very specific

and precise

[rustic vale]

Flurry makes it way better for spear

[latent moon]

true

[stiff obsidian]

Are you on switch

[marsh merlin]

yes

how could you tell

[stiff obsidian]

Lucky guess

[latent moon]

tbf i could be the worst switch player and not own a switch

[rustic vale]

True

[stiff obsidian]

Real

[rustic vale]

Maybe Bananas was the true worst switch player all along

[latent moon]

but yeah i do recommend not using sword if you think sword dash strikes are just wack as hell

[marsh merlin]

i might try out fists

[latent moon]

all the other weapon dash strikes' feel a lot better in terms of functionality

[marsh merlin]

and i also might remap my controller a bit because dash striking feeling bad isnt helped by my controller config

[latent moon]

i have like 1 bow clear on my friend's save lmao

[rustic vale]

luci dstrikes

[latent moon]

what's default?

[rustic vale]

What did you change from default?

[stiff obsidian]

I have an Eris run with dash strike chaos

[marsh merlin]

im not on default

[latent moon]

ah

[rustic vale]

I’m on default

And a switch player

[latent moon]

i've heard the default for dash and attack are good

[rustic vale]

And I don’t have that many issues with sword dstrikes

[latent moon]

you can keep part of your thumb on the dash and the rest of the thumb on the attack

[marsh merlin]

B is my dash, A is my attack, Y is my cast, X is my special

[rustic vale]

Oh

That explains it

with Y as attack you can just put your thumb down

from B

to Y

Without it being awkward

[latent moon]

i've just realized that in my 2 controller runs, i've never used the special and i frankly dont know how'd you manage special, dash, and attack all with 1 thumb

[mint coral]

I use special on triggers

[rustic vale]

I… do and I don’t think about it much

[marsh merlin]

Y attaY attack B dash feels just as awkward low key might do X dash A attack

[rustic vale]

That’s psycho

[marsh merlin]

and roll my thumb down from X to A to dash attack

[latent moon]

i mean tbh

as long as you roll the thumb in some direction it's fine

[rustic vale]

I think that being able to roll your thumb up from dash to attack makes it so much better

[latent moon]

i think idk i dont use a controller

[rustic vale]

Well think about your hand

[latent moon]

but as long as you use the thumb for both functions it's better than the current set up

[rustic vale]

Rolling down compared to rolling up

[stiff obsidian]

Ohh is that why controller eaieer for sword

[rustic vale]

with the thumb

[marsh merlin]

im more used to rolling thumb down because thats also what i do in celeste for corner kicks (A to B)

[stiff obsidian]

U just roll ur thumb

[latent moon]

i will say that every one i've asked about keybinds rolls up

if rolling up is more comfortable then go for it tho lmao

[rustic vale]

I mean fair

Whatever works for you

Having a good set of binds will help you

[latent moon]

if that's what you did for celeste then it'll work here too, celeste seems more mechanically intensive than hades

[marsh merlin]

celeste non modded isnt really mechanically intensive

but modded definitely is

[covert hare]

Here is my headcanon of why hades is so mad with his brothers: || he felt for a deez nuts joke||

[latent moon]

oh yeah for sure, i dont think you need like any hidden tech for the base game (i have yet to finish farewell)

(i am very bad at celeste and haven't played in like 8 months)

[mint coral]

for some reason even though I knew you were playing hades on switch I didn't think you were playing celeste on switch too lol

[marsh merlin]

7b, 8c, and fw introduce tech but other than that no

[covert hare]

Hades is on switch ?

[marsh merlin]

yeah

[rustic vale]

Yeah

[mint coral]

that's where I first played it

[marsh merlin]

it was actually on sale (and might still be idk)

i got it half off on christmas

[covert hare]

I also thought of a fun dual boon interaction

[mint coral]

now if only sgg ported pyre to switch too :c

[marsh merlin]

if only celeste modded was on switch

[mint coral]

I wonder if I could install mods for celeste on mine (cfw)

[covert hare]

Poseidon and Zeus would be the type of people to make deez jokes

[marsh merlin]

well if you have a jailbroken switch maybe but idk how all that works

i dont like touching any sorts of jailbreaking things

[mint coral]

eh I don't feel like playing with joycons anyways

3rd party no brand controller on pc save me

[latent moon]

strawberry jam celeste tho kinda baller

[covert hare]

I have a golden celeste save file

[covert hare]

( i used assist mode )

[latent moon]

i think that's worth breaking the switch for

[marsh merlin]

golden as in like 202

[mint coral]

already playing on pc

[latent moon]

fair enough

[mint coral]

also should prob move to the games chat lol

[marsh merlin]

tbf the switch isnt just mine technically its a family switch but im the only one who uses it

[covert hare]

Chapter 9 made me cry tho

[marsh merlin]

and i dont feel like getting questions on the off chance someone does use it

[latent moon]

fair enough

[marsh merlin]

and also i dont think a switch could run SJ anyway

[covert hare]

What an insult for the switch

[marsh merlin]

which aspect is the best on fists btw

[latent moon]

demeter

you can still go merciful end on fists btw

if anything it feels better on fists than sword even tho sword might be stronger lmao

also the charged upper of demeter fists would actually make athena special useful

[marsh merlin]

one thing i dont understand about dash strikes is how to chain them

[latent moon]

just dash strike twice lmao

[marsh merlin]

like when you do a dash strike you end up right against the enemy how would you hit

[latent moon]

i mean the dash strike is a hit

with fists, you throw some punches until your dash is off cooldown

with sword, you just special and then go back to dash strikes. the rotation is optimized such that after your special, your dashes are off cooldown so you can loop special -> 2x dash strikes (or however many you have) -> repeat

[marsh merlin]

i still dont neccessarily understand how playing them works but fist dash strikes definitely feel less clunky than sword for sure

[latent moon]

well it's just like

[marsh merlin]

and also thats just a skill issue on my part

[latent moon]

you move and deal damage at the same time

rather than like, just moving or just dealing damage

[stiff obsidian]

Nice way to sum up dash strikes

[latent moon]

they generally have a lower base damage, but the mobility and your damage speed makes up for it generally

there's delayed dash strikes, where you dash strike as late as possible after you dash so you get more iframes out of it

generally important for melee aspects i think since those are more dangerous

[marsh merlin]

im practicing on skelly and im missing a lot

thats probably just a skill issue on my part

[latent moon]

missing as in like, not knowing the dash distance that well or like just flying by

[marsh merlin]

wdym

like im dashing but its too far so yeah its probably the latter actually

[latent moon]

and just not dealing damage?

are you hitting them as fast as possible one after the other?

because even if you're right next to them you should be able to dash strike for damage

[marsh merlin]

ok i think my timing was just off

yeah it was the timing

[latent moon]

for fists, dash strikes are a swipe, so you can use it as a visual indicator

standard fists attacks are just normal punches

[marsh merlin]

im gonna start off with a 0 heat run to practice

and i can still get bounties because i havent escaped with fists befor

before

[latent moon]

lmao nice

if you're going for the standard ME build then you dont really need any help for fists builds lmao

[marsh merlin]

ngl all of my escapes so far were on sword

so if im running ME again i just do the same as i would have with sword?

[latent moon]

yeah

ares attack, athena special, get duo, get divine dash, get impending doom

win

[marsh merlin]

ok

[latent moon]

standard hermes too

[stiff obsidian]

I'd get dash before special

[latent moon]

for safety yeah maybe

[marsh merlin]

dash doesnt unlock duo though

[latent moon]

if you're getting used to dash strikes i wouldn't try doing a dash strike and dash upper in the same dash

[marsh merlin]

although fist special is a lot less protective than sword

[latent moon]

oh yeah you can dash special with fists and fists only

[marsh merlin]

yeah

[latent moon]

it's good for like a quick burst of damage but nothing too important if you dont really care about specific tart enemy break points

[marsh merlin]

i noticed that because in the little tutorial for the inputs with the weapon that shows up when you equip it telling you to do each thing dash special is one

[latent moon]

festive

[marsh merlin]

also are there certain gods i should AVOID in ME?

[latent moon]

i guess like

avoid opening other duos

there's not really a bad god you dont want to take because ideally you'd just fill god pool and cores without opening duos and try to keep pommables down

and most gods can do that

esp if you get like ares or athena cast for filler

[marsh merlin]

yeah

[stiff obsidian]

Ares cast sucks for filler u just open rift t2 boons

[latent moon]

like demeter and dio are great since they have a lot of unpommables, but zeus and artemis would provide more useful things but add pommables

[marsh merlin]

also which hammers are good on fists btw

[latent moon]

oh true

[latent moon]

breaching cross

shreds armor

after that uh

long knuckle for safety?

[stiff obsidian]

Long knuckle

[marsh merlin]

ok

[latent moon]

if you're on demeter fists, then explosive upper and kinetic launcher are good

i dont think any of the other hammers are important

[marsh merlin]

ok

[latent moon]

heavy knuckle is actively harmful tho so avoid that

[marsh merlin]

got it

[tepid light]

clearly colossus knuckle is the best fists hammer

[stiff obsidian]

Heavy knuckle dem attack is the true build

[mint hatch]

Rolling knuckle?

[latent moon]

same with quake cutter i believe but if you just like never use the special then it's fine

[latent moon]

doesn't really do anything important

it's modifying a base 25 dash strike for 60%

[mint hatch]

Nvm it's incompatible with gilga anyway

[latent moon]

like 15 more damage or something is nice but i wouldnt call it good

[tepid light]

I enjoy taking colossus just to turn my brain off and hit stuff

[latent moon]

oh colossus is kinda good tho

i do like colossus knuckle or whatever the name is

[tepid light]

I tend to take it on gilgamesh

[latent moon]

honestly fair

prevents getting hit stunned

[tepid light]

I've had some entertaining moments with gilgamesh and aphrodite strike with colossus knuckle and broken resolve, among others

enemies do like no damage to me while i just mindlessly click the left mouse button

[echo steppe]

if I have the zeus ring equipped but i have a choice to either do zeus or daedelus, if I go daedelus will the zeus boon still be guaranteed to pop up next?

[latent moon]

yes

[echo steppe]

kewl

[latent moon]

the next boon to be offered that isn't in a shop will be zeus

if you're in asphodel when that happens and you didn't use your zeus charge then you're probably missing it

but god vs hammer sounds like a tart thing so you're fine

[rustic vale]

If you want to play heavy knuckle just grab zag rail w/ spreadfire

[marsh merlin]

lv5 rare ares atk before asphodel boss

lol

[tepid light]

i don't mind heavy knuckle per se but yeah i'd only take it with demeter strike because it's both % increase and a stacking debuff

[jagged hamlet]

It sure feels fun at the very least

[tepid light]

We Sub-zero from MK now

[bright warren]

for the first time in a while i lost a run

i was trying rama for the first time

[jagged hamlet]

With a good % buff, Heavy Knuckle feels like firing off rapid (base) Rocket Bomb!

[marsh merlin]

btw how do you deal with the small explosive chariots

[bright warren]

dumb luck

idk man

[mint coral]

dash back and forth through a wall to make them crash

they'll instantly explode

[marsh merlin]

also my athena luck is bad this run lol

i got one athena from keepsake at the start of asphodel and it was dash

and im in elysium now lol

with still only athena dash

in chamber 30

[drowsy linden]

or with spear/bow(needs flurry)/rail/shield(on a special based/zeus shield run), you can sometimes just hit them

[tepid light]

wait, as in, you have no boons at all besides athena dash, or that athena dash is your only athena boon?

because if it's the latter

[marsh merlin]

its the second one

[tepid light]

then that's perfectly fine

athena dash is excellent

[marsh merlin]

yeah but i cant get merciful end unless i have her special

tbf this is 0heat though because i have never escaped with fists

[tepid light]

ah, you're going for ME

[marsh merlin]

and wanted to practice my dash strikes in a real run

[latent moon]

classic ME moment

also btw if you have athena dash, you can freely dash strike flamewheels and not take damage iirc

that's also why forcing ME every run is kinda pain

[marsh merlin]

i have probably gotten ares like 7 times too

its insane

like i said, good thing this is 0 heat

[rustic vale]

Dash through them

Not dstrike mind you

Use your iframes

They can’t turn on a dime

or just keep dashing away

[rustic vale]

Real ones know instead of taking divine dash you take curse of vengeance and holy shield

[latent moon]

divine strike on fists

[rustic vale]

facetank dad and what him melt (as you do too)

Then you throw zeus in pool and get vengeful mood

cuz why not

This was easy enough to get earlier

[opaque fable]

Smair 2nd wind zag fists athena dash isn't fair

Enemies are legit having problems hitting me

[marsh merlin]

going into hdes with 2 death defy and 360 max hp

with no merciful end or even athena special

but i have lv9 rare ares attack

[opaque fable]

You at least have the combo one?

[rustic vale]

Real gamers just get their dodge chance up to 100%

[marsh merlin]

wdym by combo one

[rustic vale]

if you mean dire misfortune, it’s not the greatest

[opaque fable]

Ares extra doom per hit

[marsh merlin]

oh wait i think i have that one yeah i just realized

[mint hatch]

How much dmg is that?

[latent moon]

to be fair

if you dont have ME, dire misfortune is actually good lmao

[opaque fable]

Not great but it is a damage source

[rustic vale]

Isn’t dire misfortune extra damage in the same way as hoarding slash

Or is that ME

[marsh merlin]

rare lv9 is 169 doom without other stuff

[latent moon]

dire misfortune adds like 14 more per stack

[opaque fable]

Me is auto proc

[rustic vale]

~it’ll vary

[marsh merlin]

impending doom is plus 60%

[latent moon]

ME damage wise is the same as hoarding tho

[rustic vale]

Or actually am I crazy

[latent moon]

like it adds after everything

which is extremely weird but no one cares since the actual function of ME is good lmao

[marsh merlin]

so i think like 270ish per proc

[latent moon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007734863186624562/1081098907062382613/output.png?ex=65979fd1&is=65852ad1&hm=f0f473fa89e5b40942f97618ce3feb2bedd1d356a5a66c360c5b3495583baaf0&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=800&height=600

[marsh merlin]

if the total shown on ares attack doesnt count the impending doom bonus

[rustic vale]

Yeah doom doesn’t vary

[latent moon]

also iirc at a certain point of pomming the attack, it's better to pom the dash lmao

[rustic vale]

Like the other boons

Whoops

[marsh merlin]

anyway its dad time

[opaque fable]

I wonder if i have a dad kill on shield

Shield has got to be my least played

[rustic vale]

I learned for a very good reason today why I don’t have a 32 heat win with spear

I didn’t make it past Lernie in like 10 attempts

[latent moon]

time to boot up hades after over a month of not playing and see if i can clear 40 heat sword first try

unmodded btw

[rustic vale]

I tried 40 heat but it’s just so scuffed

I think I need someone elses Heat Pact

or something

It just feels so much rougher than 32

[latent moon]

I mean it is with fo2 and hl5

[opaque fable]

Is there a big modding scene for this game?

[rustic vale]

@stone rune you lied to me btw, they aren’t the same thing

40 != 32

[rustic vale]

Yeah

[latent moon]

i mean like fundamentally it kinda is

but also like

it hurts a lot lmao

[tepid light]

"40 heat is the same as 32 heat" is pretty standard jazz 'advice'

[latent moon]

Yea lmao

[rustic vale]

I mean I remember trying to do this like all that time ago

W/ zeus shield

And it was fine ish

But holy will aphrodite just give me heartbreak strike

Ap1

Please

[marsh merlin]

gg first dad kill with fists

[tepid light]

congrats!

[rustic vale]

I’m just trying to use zag bow here but I can’t get a strike boo-

I know what I must do

it’s time for the best keepsake in the game

[marsh merlin]

the build was kinda stupid because it wasan attempt at ME where i didnt even get athena special

but yeah

[rustic vale]

If ap1 won’t give me a strike boon I’ll give myself one with Shattered Shackle

[tepid light]

zeus strike inc

[opaque fable]

I am not ready for em3 aren't i

[rustic vale]

No one is ready for em3 unless they’ve been spoiled

That’s the beauty of it

[opaque fable]

Heroes has always been a gigantic pita

[tepid light]

there's only one way to be 'ready' for it

[opaque fable]

For me, anyways

[tepid light]

i wish you luck

[opaque fable]

Ill probably tackle it with hera bow once i get to that bounty level

Currently on a 10 streak with various weapons clearing out low heat

[latent moon]

jesus christ i got tony'ed

[tepid light]

wat

[rustic vale]

Shoot

40 heat died to Rat?

[latent moon]

not yet

got 2 sacked luckily

[rustic vale]

[latent moon]

but almost died to tony lmao

[rustic vale]

I’ll be waiting in Victory Boasting

[tepid light]

oh, is tony the rat king?

[rustic vale]

Tiny Rat

Vermin*

[latent moon]

i got patty so like it should be relatively fine

[rustic vale]

I swear Patty never shows up for me

[latent moon]

heart rend got ap1ed earlier and had like 3 or 4 menus not offer it lmao

and ddash got ap1ed

i also got bull miniboss in ely lmao

[rustic vale]

W

[opaque fable]

Miniboss is usually good isn't it

Means asterius is like 80% during the main fight

[latent moon]

i am not doing hot

202 hp no SD left jsut got to phase 2 lmao pain

ded lol

[rustic vale]

Shoot

[latent moon]

even had dedge lmao

i think sword just sucks

[rustic vale]

Personally I would’ve had twin shot

[latent moon]

i already have bow at 40 tho

i need the melee aspects now

[rustic vale]

honestly ssg why no twinshot for guanyu

[latent moon]

oh i didn't have boiling blood in the run because of trippy shot

so that was pain

[winter plaza]

common dio cast failure

[latent moon]

bruh i died to an aphrodite trial because of trickle spawn armored cloner witches

[stone rune]

well what pact are you using

[latent moon]

prob the hl5 fo2 pact

pretty standard

[stone rune]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1189810628987199518/image.png?ex=659f847f&is=658d0f7f&hm=6364069105c7db5252c9a56601ae9a654512e2c801122ef03d8859becdb4566f&

just do this with 3 more heat somewhere

cf1 js2

cf1 dc1

cf2 js1

something along those lines

should be free

[latent moon]

yeah that's the pact he was using

the hard part is hl5 and fo2

32 and 40 aren't that similar to each other

because of the combination of those two

32 is closer to anyheat if you're using the fo2 pact

[tepid light]

we have very different definitions of 'free'

but i guess we all knew this by now

[latent moon]

lmao true

[stone rune]

i mean they're still basically the same the hl5 isnt that huge

on 40

just do hestia

ez

[latent moon]

hestia is a lot easier but still

[tepid light]

just looking at tight deadline 3 makes me nervous

[stone rune]

its fine

[latent moon]

as long as you dont get sacked it's generally not too bad

i had 5 mins for dad fight in my last nem run that died horrifically

[tepid light]

for you, sure

but i'd rather eat my own fingers than do that

[jagged hamlet]

If I can beat TD3 deadlines handily, so can you!

[tepid light]

If someone actually made that argument I'd just say the same but with EM4

And then the storm would commence

[jagged hamlet]

Oh if you're beating EM4 regularly you're probably better than I am

[tepid light]

It's rather difficult to talk about beating anything 'regularly' when you're climbing heat

Especially when EM4 is the thing in question

[rustic vale]

The extra 3 heat is what’s killing me

cf1 and ap1 are currently what I’ve got on there

[rustic vale]

I have hl5 lc4 fo2 for 32

Most of the time

I think recently I knocked it down to hl3 and put 2 extra heat in somewhere else but idk where

Either way it’s at hl5 for 40

[latent moon]

oh if that's the case then there's like no difference lmao

[rustic vale]

I could drop ap1 for

Js2

I’m just going to blame ap1 for all my issues

[tepid light]

I would actually suggest trying EM4

If you hate it, you can just turn it off

But at the very least, it's not relevant until the end of the run

[latent moon]

ngl i'd be more open to taking em4 only on shield

[rustic vale]

This was my issue before with ap1

I’m not finding whatever

Lemme just mod my switcu real quick

Oh wait I don’t want to jailbreak it

[tepid light]

well yeah but at least it'd be comparatively easier to make it there

[rustic vale]

Idk the last time I did em4

It definitely wasn’t with hl5 fo2 lc4

[tepid light]

fair point

i'm just saying to give it a try

[silk stone]

guys, does using the boon of zeus not allow zeus to say the waking-phrase?

hm

[tepid light]

well that's where personal preference comes in

the reason i run EM4 is because I still prefer it over things like Tight Deadline or Routine Inspection

[silk stone]

i invested 5 titan blood in rail and i got aspect of guan yu

what else

yeah

so im trying rn

does giving up give the same dialogue from last time?

[rustic vale]

Alr guys

Enshrouded purple dstrike in tart

Why not

[tepid light]

i just know myself and i feel like the anxiety from a higher tight deadline rank would absolutely destroy my ability to play effectively

[rustic vale]

+97% dstrike damage is +97% dstrike damsge

td doesn’t have to be anxiety

It’s only anxiety if you let it get in your head

even if you don’t have time to spare you still live

[tepid light]

that's basically my entire point here yeah aha

'you do you'

em4 isn't for everyone, nor is td3, and so on and so forth

[rustic vale]

I think td3 is for more people than em4 though

Enshrouded really makes that end of room decisions super easy

[tepid light]

'more' people, but not 'no' people

speaking as a person who prefers em4 over td3, as established

[rustic vale]

Oh my I’m having way more issues with joycons slipping out of handheld then ever

This is becoming an issue

[tepid light]

ofc there's also the people who run both of those at once

and i pray for their souls

yes

[rustic vale]

Reddit doesn’t run td

what are you on

I’ve seen their 40 minute long 32 heat runs

[tepid light]

good ol reddit

[rustic vale]

Bro meg needs to not turn that fast

How am I supposed to dstrike her when she immediately 180’s

That was actually really undisheartening thougg

Taking off ap1 made the game so much freer

[covert hare]

I hate when she and hades spam the dash and i can’t hit them with rail special

[rustic vale]

More free

[covert hare]

Or dio cast

[rustic vale]

Nah my issue was her using her machine gun attack while I was triple shot bowing

[tepid light]

"i hate it when dad turns off the lights and stabs me to death"

[rustic vale]

I couldn’t get in for the dstrikes before she would turn and hit me

[stone rune]

@rustic vale im uploading demo run for hestia 40

[rustic vale]

Imagine if js effected miniboss rooms

1.6 asteri

[stone rune]

https://youtu.be/y-iZa9KpIfw

23 minutes left

the starting death was a reset in case it was worth submitting

this was vic screen https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1028112977100017666/1189819433221357638/image.png?ex=659f8cb2&is=658d17b2&hm=6e80662d176970168cfa9390db0c818e4d0638172089614075a520a3db1c3d3c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

basically just play it slow

get a build going

and you'll be fine

i did conch start into shackle for aspho/ely into acorn after picking up that aph atk in ely

worked perfectly

[rustic vale]

Hold on

2:23

[covert hare]

Domestic violence

[stone rune]

yeah thats from runcontrol

https://youtu.be/PlsjyG6ww-A

think its wr

because it was like a 2 day fad

[rustic vale]

Time to pull off a 20 second meg fight

Or furies fight

[raw herald]

First time in my life resetting for sub 18 midshop exit

[rustic vale]

Hold on

It actually was less than 20 seconds

0:00.42 is a healthy amount of time to leave tart w/ right

Js2 is pulling some moves on me

Is chaos fishing visual indicator differentv

[jagged hamlet]

No

[stone rune]

im so washed i dont even remember what a midshop exit time is

45s?

[rustic vale]

Oh my gosh

I just did the funny speedrun thing

A basic strat like grouping enemies

[stone rune]

i have never grouped enemies

[rustic vale]

Eury

Asphodel really takes no time at all

I had a devastatingly slow 5 minute tart into 2 minute 30 second aspho

[raw herald]

Runcontrol

[rustic vale]

*psst

What’s runcontrol*

[raw herald]

I don’t really care what time I hit midshop in regular modded, I’ve had 1:30 midshop entrances turn into 1:4x tarts and 0:3x entrances turn into 1:5x tarts

[raw herald]

It’s like routed without the manips

[tepid light]

it's when you're running really fast but prevent yourself from tripping and falling

[rustic vale]

Y’know what

I’ve passed up epic Greatest reflex twice this run

[raw herald]

Runcontrol was originally made so that ppl could play world record seeds to see what they would have got

[rustic vale]

And now it gives it to me a third time

It’s a sign

[raw herald]

But then some people started making ridiculous dio beo seeds

[rustic vale]

Oh explosive is certainly

An option

Alr

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/795659377755422742/1189824478583210085/IMG_6317.jpg?ex=659f9165&is=658d1c65&hm=8440e34bf9e6e738175233881f684db77378c8256a39bf6a86333abd8eb0372d&

I’m picking between flurry and explosive here

I’m a fan of neither but I know they’re strong second hammers

the third option is conc volley so no

I feel like it’s explosive

But idk how I’m going to handle em3 fo2 theseus with explosive

[marsh merlin]

am i stupid or some of the colours inverted

in the image

[raw herald]

Pick flurry

[marsh merlin]

oh wait no thats just elysium nvm

it looked a bit weird for a sec

and also the blue of the rare seems more vibrant

[rustic vale]

Makes sense

[rustic vale]

Potentially due to it being a close up photo of a switch rather than a screenshot

[marsh merlin]

fair

cant you screenshot on the switch and send that to a phone or something

[rustic vale]

You can

But that takes longer

[marsh merlin]

fair

[rustic vale]

I did it when I had bad lighting for these photos

[stiff obsidian]

Just use discord on your switch

[marsh merlin]

i'd probably only do it if i really wanted the image to be clear

[rustic vale]

But right now, in my bed room, I have 0 glare from anything

[stiff obsidian]

[rustic vale]

Which is what I used to do

I also use it to send clips of me being Hyrules Greatest Engineer to my friends

[rustic vale]

Ofc

Obviously

[marsh merlin]

ever since christmas hades has been distracting me from my celeste 202 berries grind

[rustic vale]

Worth

[marsh merlin]

im at 197/202 in celeste i think

[rustic vale]

Hades is Hades

[marsh merlin]

true

[rustic vale]

Celeste isn’t Hades

On a scale from 0 to Hades, Celeste is a solid 0

[marsh merlin]

and also i have like 2 fun goldens left in celeste whereas im not nearly out of fun things left in hades

[rustic vale]

Where 0 is (isn’t Hades) and Hades is (is Hades)

[marsh merlin]

besides 5bg and 7bg i dont really have any other fun goldens (not counting fwg because that is way out of my league rn)

6bg and 8bg are gonna suck

[rustic vale]

It sounds like you’re right there for finishing Celeste