h1-discussion

[stone rune]

id just get hdash

easier to get it even if u miss cause she’s in pool

ur on ri0 so u can roll once

no

keep as fodder imo

ur not too pom hungry

well

yeah

you could sell hv i guess

if u want to

because u have different league

depends on ur personal opinion of your cash situation

uhhh

sure

i prob wouldnt

but u can

wat

already

i guess

i wouldn’t

but u can

i feel like

on stuff like rama u don’t need ddash nearly as much right

cause it’s not like nem or fists where u get no iframes

you know

when you think about it

tdash is repulse shot

wat

what do u usually die to

like pink heads?

for pink heads u gotta wait for them all to pop up

don’t be trying to kill one early cause you’ll get popped from offscreen

if u need to, do min charges

idk

whats the highlighted thing

affluence?

id gomble

ambrosia

2/3 chance

[normal hazel]

best companion?

[normal hazel]

what are the best gods (boons) for each weapon?

[stone rune]

its not set in stone

other than like rail

which is zeus attack, % special, tidal dash

[hardy spear]

apart from hestia

[stone rune]

yea

[normal hazel]

ah

[stiff obsidian]

are hades summon armour modified?

like buffed

[mint coral]

Their armor is way bigger than normal but no patterns/dmg changea

Em4 summons can also vaniah like dad

[mint coral]

Or you mean affected by bp

[stiff obsidian]

no just

hp

is it fixed for all of them or some multiplier

[mint coral]

That idk

Prob worth to ask in the speedrun server

[stone rune]

they're superelite

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R-NtMjd-Hvxv5xWI4oxtRgMjt20C-wVZvxITU2e9h0g/edit#gid=0

[stiff obsidian]

oh

so those are the ones in erebus gates too right

[stone rune]

yea

[stiff obsidian]

thats why they so tanky

[mint coral]

Visits ely erebus gate > super elite butterfly ball

Lovely

[stiff obsidian]

so hades does have beefier healthbars at em4

[latent moon]

oh god i didn't realize em3 gave them that much extra hp lmao

[mint coral]

I love how antony is just "rat"

[obsidian linden]

where is the saloon to get drunk and angrily yelling at the game?

[last meadow]

finally properly beat hades

but i did it on god mode 💔

i'm gonna have to do a new file where i dont use it

[mint coral]

Or turn it off instead?

[last meadow]

oh i meant the game

not just the boss

[mint coral]

Still applies

[last meadow]

nahhhhh

story

[mint coral]

Story doesn't change

[last meadow]

i am aware

its about the principle

beating the game without easy mode on

[mint coral]

Fair

[ivory agate]

just got to greece finally for the first time ever, any tips

like i just beat hades yesterday for the first time finally

[crystal star]

You gotta be more specific

[ivory agate]

like the snowy ruins

idk what other details i can give

im using the gun weapon

[stone rune]

i mean

what kind of tips

oh

you won

idk play more

[ivory agate]

huh ok ig

like isnt there more after that tho?

[stone rune]

there is

[ivory agate]

i saw othjer ppl talkin abt it

[stone rune]

theres a lot more story

theres a lot more content

[ivory agate]

oh alr

did u finish thje game?

[stone rune]

well

[ivory agate]

i think i only have 2 death defiances i gotta get more i aint doin allat again

[stone rune]

it's hard to define finishing the game

[ivory agate]

wait i have another question

[stone rune]

the game does get easier to complete though

mirror upgrades, aspect upgrades, keepsakes, your skill

[ivory agate]

do i start all over if i die now

liek even in greece

[stone rune]

well

[ivory agate]

or do they let me through

[stone rune]

its not like you lose your meta progress

but yes you will lose your boons and stuff

like a normal run

[ivory agate]

oh alr

but i start from greece or what

[crystal star]

No..?

[ivory agate]

like thats what im confused abtr

?

[crystal star]

There isnt anything else in greece

[ivory agate]

huhhhh

[crystal star]

You saw the garden and thats it

[ivory agate]

well im in the snow

[crystal star]

There isn’t anything else to explore

[ivory agate]

and like i stopped acfter that

i hadda sleep

[stone rune]

yeah they havent gone to the next thing

[crystal star]

Oh

[ivory agate]

so there is more for me?

[crystal star]

Im confused

[ivory agate]

ME TOO

[crystal star]

There is a lot more wdym

[ivory agate]

bro everyone saying something diff

[crystal star]

Clearing a run isnt the end of the game

[ivory agate]

well ik that

[crystal star]

You have to clear multiple times

[ivory agate]

but like farther than greece

is what ive been asking

[crystal star]

No

Greece is as far as u go

[ivory agate]

ik theres more like using weapons and more runs

ohhhh aklr

thanks

thank u jazz n neptune

yall cool

[crystal star]

Np

[jagged hamlet]

I think I should consider changing my pacts to a speedrun setup. I'll want the standard EM2 and FO2 (but actually FO1 because I'm bad) and no TD, right? Any other pacts to consider?

[stone rune]

thats it

for a very short period people did bp1

but dont do it

[jagged hamlet]

Thanks!

[stone rune]

td is for RTA

[stiff obsidian]

how do i convince someone that rama is not just a better hestia

[stone rune]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1146523196791726131/1151622557330579476/image.png

[latent moon]

What even is their argument lmao

They don't have a remotely close play style

Or build path except like the attack sorta

[stone rune]

yea hestia has actual hit frequency

theyre just like

way different

hestia does not have good aoe

hestia hits a lot more times

hestia has clockets

but is also less hammer reliant

[stiff obsidian]

well

i am not usre anymore

[latent moon]

The only case would be like special only rama and zag rail I guess but like they specifically said hestia lmao

[stiff obsidian]

i dont think they have one

nvm

[latent moon]

The most "similar" aspect to rama that isn't a bow is like idk

Beo

Vaguely

But that's a super far stretch

[stiff obsidian]

also they say chiron has better dpsthan zagbow and idk how i explain

[stone rune]

probably joking then

[stiff obsidian]

nah they just new

[latent moon]

I think for single target in a vacuum it technically does

But like out of a whole run and consistently and accounting for aoe, zag bow is just better lmao

[stiff obsidian]

wouldnt that be with both the good hammers

[latent moon]

idk how much a zag bow dash strike (no crit) does tbh

but like a full special volley off of chiron is 80

[stone rune]

50

with twin and perfect 100 base and 250 total

and 325 average

with crit included

which is just about the damage of a relentless conc special

[latent moon]

full conc chiron volley is 164 lmao

[stone rune]

relentless is like 320 right

with conc

[latent moon]

318 yeah

but like without hammers and just a single shot

and no crit

chiron technically does more damage

if you measure like that one window of damage

[stone rune]

Grue

[latent moon]

but yeah factoring in aoe, hammers, etc

crits lmao

zag bow is just better damage overall

also if we're tracking dps, chiron is naturally slower because of the slow special animation

[stiff obsidian]

whats the rquirement for anil

anvil?

[latent moon]

for chiron, you need concentrated volley

2nd hammer is more lenient but relentless is generally preferred

piercing makes your range weird but you get some semblence of aoe and shield dudes are less of a problem

[stiff obsidian]

i mean finding an anvil in styx

[latent moon]

for zag bow, you want twin/triple into perfect or point blank

oh

im dumb

[stiff obsidian]

lol

[latent moon]

it's just a 50/50

hermes or anvil

[stiff obsidian]

oh

its been 9-10 runs

[latent moon]

i think if you have no hammer it can still appear

not including fresh file

[latent moon]

tbf it happens lmao

[stiff obsidian]

what about odds of a well/purge well/trove/chaos/erebus gate in any given room?

[latent moon]

i believe chaos and erebus have like a minimum chamber count before they appear again

like you can get a chaos gate in c1 and c12 but you can't get it c2 and c12 or something like that

erebus follows a similar set of rules i believe

the chiron well, purging pool, and trove i frankly have no idea

i think that's just randomly rolled before you enter a room

[stiff obsidian]

and the chaos well thing overrides that right

[latent moon]

natural chaos gates btw, you can still force them through ixions

yeah

[stiff obsidian]

nice

[mint coral]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vR8OWqTyJ_EbqVTBomnBsjyntsFZU9XfCVAhj0tWXQaS2zOmdYeEme0vwpu72c7be0eopkRMzULZsdK/pubhtml

[latent moon]

ofc there's a spreadsheet for that lmao

[stiff obsidian]

nice

[stiff obsidian]

what is biome depth?

[stone rune]

like

how far in u are

what chamber

[stiff obsidian]

ooh

i didnt know purging wells couldnt appear in tarturus

ive never seen one really except in styx tunnels

i dont notice stuff

[grizzled current]

There's a spreadsheet for everything

In every game

[rose ibex]

does patroclus hydralite work with the no healing at all pact?

[stone rune]

no

[ionic hemlock]

But guan yu and cursed slash do right?

[stone rune]

yea

those are different

[ionic hemlock]

Draining upper?

It’s bad but does it work

[stone rune]

yea

[mint coral]

Yeah

[jagged hamlet]

What are the big differences between someone like me, who can just squeak under 10 min, and someone who can do 5-7 min clears consistently other than my use of FO1 over FO2? Lots of Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery?

[stone rune]

skill

manips

decision making

getting a feel for waves, enemy counts

[drowsy linden]

calculated risk just got approvald

at least it wast thunder flourish

[stone rune]

its useless anyways

[dire tendon]

what is calculated risk

[stone rune]

half speed projectiles

[dire tendon]

i can do that

[stone rune]

its the duo u get at high heat when u have hangover and ddash

[dire tendon]

i spam the pause button

[drowsy linden]

athena+dio duo

[stone rune]

and u want a dd

[drowsy linden]

alright...
HEAT 32 LERNIE WITHOUT THUNDER FLOURISH

[stone rune]

but like

[stone rune]

you might not be seeing it but even when doing vod reviews for sub8s or sub7s there are often a loooot of things to improve

and every time i get one theres a lot of things to improve

[jagged hamlet]

Thanks! I guess I should watch a few. I'm guessing everybody who's faster than me is also much, much better and faster at inputs, especially dashes, too

[stone rune]

i have a bunch of runs up

https://www.youtube.com/@asourt/videos

[latent moon]

also a lot of practice

while doing all of those things that top runners do

[jagged hamlet]

True, true. I'll have to have a look at the VODs and such

[latent moon]

i've been speedrunning for like idk a year and a couple months? my first sub7 was probably like 6 months in at least or something idk

[stone rune]

it depends on how hard u grind

how much u play

i havent really done anything other than play

like i dont rlly watch other people or anything

but here i am

[jagged hamlet]

Oh my goodness I just sub-9'd 😄

[stone rune]

gg

[latent moon]

sub10 -> sub7 was 3 months for me apparently so like add a month or so before that from when i started speedrunning

[latent moon]

gaming

[latent moon]

this was also only like 1-4 runs a day on and off, not even consistently lmao

most of the hardcore speedrunners get like a dozen or so runs a day

[latent moon]

ngl same lmao

[stone rune]

yeah i played maybe 6 hours a day during summer

[latent moon]

i think the only guide that was probably remotely useful for me was the spawn manip guide and i dont even remember most of it
all my speedrunning skills was basically from discord, didn't even watch sleepsoul's video

[past summit]

i keep getting stuck on the final boss, you guys have any tips for me or do i just have to git gud?

[stone rune]

now i play like 2 or 3 because school

[latent moon]

your dashes have iframes so you can dash through various attacks

just dont dash strike or like have any extra inputs to utilize the full iframes

[jagged hamlet]

Are you having problems with any particular bits in the fight?

[latent moon]

otherwise it's kinda a learning process of learning the signals and whatnot

[past summit]

ah that makes sense

[latent moon]

i dont even play 1 hour whenever i do play lmao

[stone rune]

i do short sessions usually

[latent moon]

the most amount of runs i do is like 2 per sitting

[stone rune]

like 6 or 7 30 min ones

[past summit]

the urns in phase 2 really mess me up

[latent moon]

isn't that like 2 runs lmao

not even 2

like 1.5

vaguely

[stone rune]

no

its like

10

[jagged hamlet]

Ooh. If you're willing to play slowly, then you can often shy away from the urns and have the boss himself blow up a lot of the urns

[latent moon]

oh resets lmao

[past summit]

how does a run even take 30 minutes? i go through them in 10

[latent moon]

i forgot those existed

[stone rune]

[jagged hamlet]

Oh! I guess speedrun modpack would help a lot with speedrunning too hm

[latent moon]

helps for consistency yeah

not getting bad minibosses or getting shafted in styx is nice

[stone rune]

but yea i reset a lot

i dont reset much if im just grinding sheet

but i havent done that in a while

[past summit]

i try to finish every chamber as fast as i can, less time spent around enemies means less time i can be damaged by them

[stone rune]

all my recent sheets have been off like

13x 12x tart exits

and then i just kept them out of aspho

[past summit]

YOU GUYS HAVE SHEETS???

[stone rune]

because why not

[latent moon]

in game time is different than real time

[stone rune]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d56DvDTE8WvQsMRQFs1pLbNpMBHy2CLYss69EL-8bMU/edit

[past summit]

oh that's speedrunning things

[stone rune]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1146523196791726131/1151708517451960361/image.png

[latent moon]

in general real time runs take about 20 minutes, but that's because i optimize for in game time rather than real time

[past summit]

im just trying to beat the final boss again

[jagged hamlet]

One thing I can say so far watching jazz using Archilles is that I certainly don't pause nearly as much

[stone rune]

dont watch my achilles

[latent moon]

lmfao

[stone rune]

i suck ass at achilles

[jagged hamlet]

Aw okay

[latent moon]

dont you have like a sub7 achilles

[stone rune]

yeah i have a 6:14

[past summit]

ive done it before a while back, but for some reason i can't do it again

[latent moon]

that's not "suck ass" lmao

[latent moon]

bruh

[stone rune]

im huge garb at it

[latent moon]

my brother in christ

i will send the images again

[stone rune]

my heroes is like 15s

[past summit]

im trying to figure out what i did the first time

[latent moon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839538570738139146/1136150091040817172/IMG_9013.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839538570738139146/1136150091334430791/IMG_9014.png

watching jazz's achilles is fine

[jagged hamlet]

jazz, how do I easily find your Nemesis, Eris, and Beowulf runs? I recall you mentioned some number for Beowulf, but I don't know the other two

[stone rune]

uhh

[jagged hamlet]

Oh you actually say "beo" for Beowulf ooop

[latent moon]

can't you scroll down through her vids and like look for the names

[stone rune]

all my beo runs are the

[past summit]

i remember i was using the aspect of zeus my first time i beat the game

[stone rune]

my beo runs are the ones starting with 5

the gameplay on those is pretty bad though

ive improved a lot last few weeks

[jagged hamlet]

A lot of the videos are just named with three digits and nothing else

[stone rune]

yeah those are beo

the name is the time

[past summit]

but it can't be that different using a different weapon right?

[latent moon]

kinda yes and no

different weapons have differnt play styles and builds

[stone rune]

i dont think ive uploaded any eris runs

i dont have anything notable on eris

i dont have a sub7 on it

[latent moon]

shield is more lenient towards learning mechanics and clearing because you have a block mechanic and you can kinda wait out attacks while readying your own

[past summit]

i guess i need more practice because my playstyle for every weapon but the bow and the gun is button mashing

[stone rune]

my nem run is a 6:53

so u can search that in my channel

[latent moon]

lmao you dont have to spam the attacks on fists btw

[stone rune]

but my nem gp sucks

[latent moon]

you can hold it down

[past summit]

that i know

[jagged hamlet]

That's probably okay. I think at some point techniques are somewhat weapon-agnostic anyway, so I can probably learn from watching quick runs in general

[past summit]

but everything else is button mashing

[latent moon]

fair

[wispy sinew]

What keepsake is the very last one?

[jagged hamlet]

Thank!

[stone rune]

should be dads

[jagged hamlet]

Sigil of the Dead (Hades)

[past summit]

i've got 3 left, ares, aphrodite, and the last one

[stone rune]

if u wanna watch runs by actual good players go to speedrun.com and look at top runs there

[wispy sinew]

Ok thanks also how much titan blood to max out each weapon?

[stone rune]

https://www.speedrun.com/hades?h=Any_Heat-Unseeded-v1.37-Modded&x=zd3xmmvd-kn0jq60l.810jogwl-7896gj58.5lezxr5l-9l7xez7n.z19kkg4q

[stone rune]

every weapon is 5/15/16/15

per aspect

zag 5 2nd 15 3rd 16 hidden 15

[past summit]

tbh i find that ares and aphrodite boons aren't great

or maybe im dumb

[stone rune]

1/1/1/1/1 1/2/3/4/5 2/2/3/4/5 3/3/3/3/3

[past summit]

idk

[latent moon]

i think i've sent it like 8 times, all of them towards jazz

[past summit]

the aphrodite boons just make no sense to me, since "weakened" reduces the enemies damage dealt

but that implies getting hit

[latent moon]

because she keeps calling her skill ass even tho she straight up has a world record

and 2nd place

[past summit]

and that goes against everything i know in video games

[stone rune]

well if you're having trouble clearing i'd assume you're getting hit

[latent moon]

and a bunch of other low times

[jagged hamlet]

I refuse! I wanna see how human people run, not absolute machines

[latent moon]

you can just not get hit but still apply weakened because aphrodite has as big % modifier

[jagged hamlet]

Not sure I could totally understand what's happening in the super quick runs anyway

[past summit]

im pretty much always getting stuck on the final boss

[latent moon]

could scroll down for lower times lmao

[jagged hamlet]

Reee!

[stone rune]

and be greeted with 5:25 zagspear

[past summit]

ok thanks man ✅

[stone rune]

there definitely is

[jagged hamlet]

Why not just watch jazz then :^)

[stone rune]

chaos

[past summit]

but while i'm here, what weapons work good with what playstyles

[latent moon]

she can't stop you from watching her vids even if she calls her own gameplay bad lmao

just go for it

i have some videos as well but there's not much variety compared to jazz'

[stone rune]

theres definitely a difference in peoples styles at the top

like

ocke has that very premeditated calculated sort of play

it makes a lot of sense to me

[past summit]

so, gilga and chiron aren't good?

[latent moon]

i have like 2? rama, 1 hestia, 2 cursed 32 heat zag bow, and a bunch of beo

oh and like 3 achilles

[stone rune]

vorime is super snappy

[latent moon]

chiron is fine but it's not like outstanding

[past summit]

i use chiron, it's fine

[stone rune]

and so is mike

[jagged hamlet]

Gilgamesh and Chiron are fine, honestly, though Gilgamesh's unique feature makes you more likely to die since it boosts enemies' damage. They're just kinda not meta

[stone rune]

mike gp is rlly weird to me

[wispy sinew]

@brisk trail hiw exactly does talos suck?

[stone rune]

cause it looks like controller

[stone rune]

bad special

[latent moon]

funny pull thingy doesnt work half the time, and according to a talos expert, it has a bunch of techs that exist that makes it still underperform demeter

[jagged hamlet]

Gosh suddenly jazz is at the furies in like 1.5 min. I take 2 min to get to them 😮

[latent moon]

mood

[wispy sinew]

Idk I beat the game multiple times with talos I havnr tried the last 2

[stone rune]

have u tried going faster

[latent moon]

i'm happy if i make it to furies like 1:50 lmao

[stone rune]

the 40 grind has me down bad thoguh

[latent moon]

tbf i dont hard reset for tart i just say "screw it" and reset in asphodel if it's really bad

[stone rune]

im happy with a sub155 exit

[past summit]

from what i've played so far, Poseidon is one of the best, since i can just spam cast constantly

[latent moon]

i mean it's sub6 able

[jagged hamlet]

I'm happy with a sub 3 exit LOL

[stone rune]

on 40 u gotta get so much more time though

since styx is like

5s longer

heroes 10s longer

[past summit]

especially when i get epic flood shot and a couple poms

[latent moon]

just skip aspho and ely

[stone rune]

and your damage probably sucks

no its when u get anthony and brimstone midboss

[past summit]

i just spam 3 300 damage projectiles into someone's face

[stone rune]

i had a 4:30 exit that didnt sub6

[latent moon]

brimstone isn't that bad is it

[stone rune]

40 heat is actually the worst category

[latent moon]

anthony does suck tho

[stone rune]

it has so much hp

[past summit]

9/10 times they just die and i grab the stones back

[latent moon]

could be 50!

[latent moon]

well like there's only 1 better option and that's the pot isn't it

[jagged hamlet]

Is FO2 a huuuge difference over FO1? I know it's technically just 20%, but how much does it impact IGT?

[past summit]

if they don't die, i nova smash and repeat the process

[stone rune]

0.5s every wave

[latent moon]

does satyr have less hp

[stone rune]

yeah

satyr hp gets deleted by meg

[jagged hamlet]

Thanks! I guess 0.5s would add up over time hm

[stone rune]

anthony and brimstone dont

[latent moon]

oh lmao

[wispy sinew]

@brisk trail Like the aspects I use is nemesis (havnt tried Arthur yet),achiles/hades,choas,don't use the bow gotta learn still,talos,and zargreus

[latent moon]

yeah fair enough then

at least brimstone doesn't jump around i gues

[stone rune]

sunday

[wispy sinew]

So talis can't be all that bad when I beat hades more times I think than any the other weapon. Only one that might be more is chaos

[stone rune]

chaos

[jagged hamlet]

Are you talking about normal clears or super speedy speedruns, Majin?

[wispy sinew]

@stone rune what is chaos bad to?

[stone rune]

the special sucks

it goes out for like 20 years and you cant block during it

the writeup is posted at 9pm pst every sunday

[wispy sinew]

Yea but I like the bounce 😆 more so for fun but I dash more with it I'd say unless enemies right by eachother

[stone rune]

zeus is basically just better chaos

the special does way more damage

and you can block while it's out

and use your attack

dont

boonless would be actually free

[wispy sinew]

I used zues I think once

[stone rune]

mirrorless is fine so long as u get dashes

[wispy sinew]

I like hades one better than Achilles

I got ya just I like hades more than it I never really used guan to say if I liked it an I do like zag spear

I wana do a spear build I saw online that focused on the special but forgot how it goes

Like just insane throw dmg

[jagged hamlet]

It's probably Charged Skewer + Aphrodite or Artemis Flourish + etc etc.

[wispy sinew]

I will check it out like that then an see

Good Beowuld build?

[jagged hamlet]

Watching jazz's Nemesis run and comparing to my own Nemesis play, it seems like the primary differences are:

1. Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery
2. Better use of Batty
3. More refined play and faster inputs, especially positioning against enemies
4. Zeus's cast

I hardly ever get Hyper Delivery 😦

Oh my goodness no fear of flamewheels

I swear I must put in inputs at like 70% the rate better players do

[past summit]

i do, unless you get stupid lucky with daed hammers you are never going to use that spin voluntarily

[latent moon]

Health is a resource

Also straight up tanking the damage and/or rushing in is faster than trying to get them to run into stuff to blow up

[jagged hamlet]

True. Now that I'm not running EM3, LC2, or HL2, maybe I can be a bit braver in Elysium

[past summit]

just beat champs, can't wait for dad to beat my ass again

[jagged hamlet]

Go go go!

[past summit]

i've got true shot lv3

173 damage per shot, and i have 3 bloodstones

the true shot was SO nice on theseus

[jagged hamlet]

True Shot ignores his shield, right?

[past summit]

yup, hits him right in his stupid face

ok time to fight dad

im totally going to die

but at least i get to spam level 5 true shot at him for 5 minutes

[wispy sinew]

What heat you on?

[past summit]

none

i haven't even beaten him yet this save file

i genuinely suck at this game lol

but i did get to phase two

we'll see where i get from here

[wispy sinew]

I doubt you suck 😆 I'm not the greatest but I can get him so u can to

[past summit]

GODDAMNIT

the stupid shockwaves again

[drowsy linden]

do you have mirage?

[past summit]

what?

[past summit]

i got him down to half on phase two this time

cast spam is the way to go ✅

[wispy sinew]

What super you got?

[drowsy linden]

art+pos duo, basically your cast deals 30% more damage

[past summit]

nah

[past summit]

i had the zeus super

[wispy sinew]

Ah ok did a single shock get you or the double ones?

[past summit]

the single one, it was either get shocked or get hit in the face with a spear, I chose the shock

[wispy sinew]

U got this man

I used to really like zues super and ares until someone in here told me about arti and dio those are my go 2s now 😆

[jagged hamlet]

Are you running 2x dash?

[past summit]

ye

i have 3 globs of titan blood, what should I try next?

[wispy sinew]

What weapon you using now?

[past summit]

uhhh, ifk

*idk

i just got back to the house

[wispy sinew]

@past summit my personal favorite weapon is the fist and least is bow

[past summit]

I'm thinking I should get either guan yu or zeus

[jagged hamlet]

That said, 3x blood could take a zagbow a long way

Guan Yu will eat all your HP

[past summit]

I've just been unlocking, haven't done upgrades

[jagged hamlet]

Zeus shield is super safe and decent damage if played well

[wispy sinew]

I don't got alot of experience with it but I do know you get that hp back really easily tho.

[past summit]

yeah that's what I used the very first time I beat dad

hmmm

im gonna do zag bow

9% crit chance ain't bad

grabbing adamant arrow too

[jagged hamlet]

Be sure to dash-strike whenever possible to get arrows out quickly!

[past summit]

oops

noted

anyways this is pretty nice

one shot wretched sneak

nice

ok I think I know why I keep dying

I kept unlocking new aspects instead of upgrading the ones I had

[jagged hamlet]

You don't really need upgraded aspects per se

[wispy sinew]

Mirage shot would bring out a second demeter cast right?

[stone rune]

yea

same exact spot tho

[formal orbit]

Does beowulf work with demeter cast, haven't tried that yet

[wispy sinew]

I forgot I picked up mirage shot I thought real quick it probably wouldn't be worth having huh?

The cast*

[wispy sinew]

The one that drops ice ? Or the one that dmg round you?

[formal orbit]

I was expecting laser like slicing flare

turn out, it's just a boring aoe chill

like snow burst

[wispy sinew]

Oh so can't get the Lazer with it?

[formal orbit]

yeah, kinda expecting some goofy stuff

[wispy sinew]

That was the cast I was going for not knowing couldn't get...

[stone rune]

icy flare sucks

awful pom scaling

and has delay

[wispy sinew]

I didn't know about this til now I thought picking dwmeter would got me the drop

[past summit]

demeter cast sucks

like, it's horrible

unless your target just doesn't move

[wispy sinew]

@past summit I like it did a freeze build with it

[formal orbit]

it's fun tho, I used to have 7 cast with crystal clarity

[wispy sinew]

For hades I popped a bunch on him

[past summit]

that does sound pretty funny

just turn the game into a rave party

[formal orbit]

something like this: https://imgur.com/a/gtkzIwQ

[brisk trail]

That Demeter cast build tho

[wispy sinew]

That does look interesting I wana do that build 😆

[past summit]

ok now that's pretty good

the cast kinda sucks when you don't build around it

but that looks super good

[stone rune]

it’s still not that good

it’s basically hunting blades but with like half the damage

[formal orbit]

yeah, it's called meme beam for a reason

[wispy sinew]

@stone rune he did say it was for fun tho

Who's under skelly in the codex?

[formal orbit]

If you really want to be spoiled: ||Persephone||

[stone rune]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779451865399368/1148751651356811355/image.png?width=1246&height=701

this is most stones in a sheet i’ve had recently

[formal orbit]

is that rank 7 on unseeded speedrun?

[stone rune]

nah that’s way down

[wispy sinew]

What is up with the description 😆

[stone rune]

not even sub530

it was pretty slow

bad damage as u can see

31s dad

[past summit]

is bonus dash charges worth it?

[stone rune]

yes

[past summit]

i got a +3 dash charge boon i can pick

or is bonus special speed better for the bow?

[stone rune]

definitely dash

[past summit]

oke

[stone rune]

bow special is useless

[past summit]

nuh uh

[wispy sinew]

Are you supposed to dash at like constantly with bow?

[past summit]

i got hunter's flourish, anything i get point blank with my special is dead

[past summit]

i don't see why, dash shot deals less damage

[stone rune]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1028112977100017666/1151740419877638174/IMG_1831.png it would be like 700th

[stone rune]

you are

on zagbow you’re supposed to dash strike always

you literally never press special

[past summit]

why tho

[stone rune]

because it charges faster

and gets dash strike bonuses

[past summit]

but it does LESS DAMAGE

[stone rune]

ok and

still 50 base damage

[past summit]

no it doesn't, zag bow is bonus crit chance

[stone rune]

that’s not what that means

dash strike gets dash strike bonuses

standing strike doesn’t

lunge from chaos, hunter dash

[formal orbit]

Rama without dash strike just straight up budget rail

[past summit]

well i don't have either of those

[stone rune]

but it’s still better

faster change outweighs the slightly less base damage

[latent moon]

you get more overall dps out of dash striking than standing strikes

[past summit]

i get that but i don't have boons for basic attack or dash yet

so im using special

[latent moon]

the more you shoot the more damage you do lmao

[past summit]

because with the boons i have RIGHT NOW it does more damage faster

when i get THOSE BOONS ill do dash strike more

[stone rune]

those are the decisions u made

[latent moon]

i unironically think that you'll deal more consistent damage by ignoring the special still lmao but you do you

[stone rune]

yeah

special is just bad

[latent moon]

it's also a lot safer since you dont have to be right next to an enemy to deal damage

[wispy sinew]

@latent moon how far does dash atk hit? I don't mess with the bows will do them last but is it half screen or how much exactly?

[latent moon]

it's the same as a normal attack

the range is the same

granted you hold it long enough

[wispy sinew]

I used them like once I didn't like it so idk exactly how far basic atk is

[stone rune]

might be here

[latent moon]

just know the dash attack and normal attack are the same range

[stone rune]

https://cpecific.github.io/hades-wiki/

i can’t check rn

i’m on phone

[latent moon]

unless you're talking about a specific hammer? the only hammer that reduces range is twin shot iirc

[wispy sinew]

I will check when back at house but when I tried to dash atk on skelly it didn't shoot so I said pick it up later

[formal orbit]

What about flurry shot?

[latent moon]

range should still be the same

[wispy sinew]

I accidentally chose the atk option for patroclus....

[latent moon]

i mean it's not that bad

depending on the aspect at least lmao

[wispy sinew]

Using beowulf i might be tripping but it seems slower

[latent moon]

slower in what sense

the attack?

[wispy sinew]

Yea

[latent moon]

the attack is definitely slower than other shields yes

so is the special

dash strike is about the same tho

you should dash strike into the dragon rush since the dash strike puts down the shield faster

[wispy sinew]

It was like instantly I didn't try it cuz I didn't like the bull rush but wow

[latent moon]

fair tbh

a lot of people dont like the slow attack and therefore dont like the bull rush lmao

dash striking into it helps a ton tho

[wispy sinew]

Fr

I like the aspect now gotta see how much it will mess up hades

[latent moon]

turns out if you have a bug that doubles your damage, it becomes extremely good

[wispy sinew]

How does that work just random bug occasionally?

[formal orbit]

I think he meant Mirage Shot

Poseidon Artemis duo boon

[latent moon]

yeah mirage shot lmao

[formal orbit]

Instead of 30%, you get 100%

[wispy sinew]

Oh crap

[latent moon]

now, if you want a bug that gives your cast variable damage
allegedly, rare crop does it

(it's not a good thing btw it's very weird)

[wispy sinew]

I legit sold it an my demeter cast

[latent moon]

and the specifics of rare crop being bugged isn't really figured out yet

[latent moon]

are you using beo with icy flare

[wispy sinew]

Yea I didn't know it crap

[formal orbit]

How does that work?

[latent moon]

honestly

no one really knows yet

it's just like

known

also on hera

maybe on other aspects too but not entirely sure about that one

the modders/coders/whoever in speedcord haven't really given it a thorough look through i think

and if they have, they haven't figured it out yet

and i dont think it's really a priority on their list of things to do

[latent moon]

yeah icy flare is the worst cast on beo lmao

just stick to poseidon and try and get mirage shot lol

[wispy sinew]

I was aiming for crystal tbh

[latent moon]

passion flare is good for consistency

[latent moon]

beo can't get crystal clarity

icy flare literally doesnt drop a beam lmao

[wispy sinew]

Yea I didn't know 😆

Didn't think it through with dragon rush

[latent moon]

lmao fair i guess

a rough ranking of the casts would be like

poseidon
aphrodite

dionysus
athena
artemis

ares
zeus
demeter

wait i forgot athena

[stone rune]

athena has ok damage and awful aoe

[latent moon]

zeus and ares is probably like fighting for 2nd to last place

[stone rune]

slicing worse than icy

[latent moon]

i mean it's just like
why use athena when aphrodite is there

[latent moon]

unironically no

[stone rune]

icy is still like

you shoot out and it makes a circle

[past summit]

poseidon cast is soooo fun

[latent moon]

3 slicing flares will actually kill ely enemies

[stone rune]

the circle is double boosted by mirage

[latent moon]

unlike dem flare

i've done 40 on both i believe, slicing flare was much more doable

[wispy sinew]

I lime dios

[latent moon]

icy flare might've died to lernie actually

[wispy sinew]

Like*

[latent moon]

but slicing flare actually has damage somehow

granted if you use 3 of them

[latent moon]

dio cast for beo needs stygian soul in the mirror and more casts from chaos

it's good and strong (and also bugged) but it's rng reliant

it's easily the third best cast, but it's hard to get a good run with it

[wispy sinew]

I meant in general his cast my fav then demeter

[stone rune]

every so often i try pash on 40

[latent moon]

fair

low bar to pass

[stone rune]

and then realize why pash is not speed meta

it’s so enticing though

[latent moon]

i think i have a sub10 passion 40 heat

[stone rune]

because u never ever get damage

[wispy sinew]

So the bug it just doubles dragon rush or widen it to

[latent moon]

but also yeah since you're pushing for sub6 you can't really do passion unless you somehow get an early mirage shot

[stone rune]

not dragon rush

that’s not a bug

that’s part of leveling the aspect

the bug is that with mirage shot the second flare itself will deal 100% damage

rather than 30%

[wispy sinew]

Oh I got mixed up

[past summit]

phase two

[stone rune]

so it multiplicatively doubles your damage

[past summit]

wish me luck

[stone rune]

which is very good

[latent moon]

nvm this is a lie

it was like an 11:xx or something

idk

10:xx

[formal orbit]

I did get a really good cast run with dio, forget to get hangover for the legendary tho: https://imgur.com/a/ObL2YdL

[stone rune]

it’s probably fine for a sub7

[wispy sinew]

Think dragon rush will be my main cuz Bananas 😆

[stone rune]

where mirage

[formal orbit]

I was trying on hera for the meme actually

[stone rune]

also trippy hera bad

[latent moon]

gaming

[stone rune]

it’s trippy beo but no pom bug

but it still gets mirage bug

[latent moon]

i mean it's fine lmao i wouldn't say "bad"

[stone rune]

well it’s like

why play trippy hera

when trippy beo

[latent moon]

because they want to play hera

bow bounty

[stone rune]

ig

[formal orbit]

Yeah, i suck at beowulf

[latent moon]

and beo is cringe

[stone rune]

yeah we should all play hestia instead

[formal orbit]

True, hestia ftw

[past summit]

I DID IT

WOOOOOOO!!

[latent moon]

gamer

[wispy sinew]

How good is lucifer?

[stone rune]

it’s good

hammer reliant

you need triple bomb

but it’s very fun

[wispy sinew]

Ok and if don't get triple is the extra dmg one good or better choices?

[stone rune]

there’s like

targeting system is ok

piercing fire

flash fire i guess

idk

pick what sounds good other than piercing or targ i think

take piecing or targ if they r on screen

[wispy sinew]

What is the 5 or 6 bomb one called?

[stone rune]

can’t get that on lucifer

but it’s cluster bomb

[wispy sinew]

Ah

[stone rune]

lucifer removes a lot of hammers and adds a lot of hammers

[latent moon]

most of which are mediocre

[wispy sinew]

The added ones? Or that is gone?

[formal orbit]

eternal chamber

[stone rune]

yeah a lot of added ones aren’t that good

eternal chamber yea does nothing

[wispy sinew]

Ok I stick with the 3 you mentioned then

[stone rune]

concentrated beam bad

triple beam is like

meh aoe

it’s not nothing but you can’t hit the same target with all 3 beams

and greater inferno is also bad

[past summit]

I FINALLY DID IT

now time to do it again :D

[stone rune]

if u wanna see the general rotation on luci

like how to use the special and stuff

let me find video

[wispy sinew]

Thnx

@past summit how many times you beat him so far?

[stone rune]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rvgeX77hRY

[past summit]

um, one

this is the first time this save file

[wispy sinew]

I almost beat him with beo if I didn't choose atk from patroclus by accident I would have had him

[past summit]

i beat him once before a while ago

[wispy sinew]

@past summit oh nice now time to beat him multiple times in row

@stone rune that zues laser is awesome

[stone rune]

yeah it’s very fun

lucifer build is very similar to other rails but it plays very differently

small tip

start shooting just a little bit before the enemies spawn

because of the delay

[formal orbit]

How do you play zag rail btw, it just seem boring

[stone rune]

bad eris version is boring

spread fire is fun

[formal orbit]

That is like the only good thing on zag

[wispy sinew]

@stone rune how would you personally rank all the aspects?

[stone rune]

well like

for fun or for strength

[wispy sinew]

Str

[stone rune]

beowulf
hera
achilles
eris/hestia
rama
zeus
nemesis
lucifer
demeter
zagrail
zagbow
guan yu
zagshield
poseidon
zagsword
zagspear
zagfists
hades
talos
chaos
arthur
chiron
gilgamesh

or something

that’s not exact

and i might have missed some aspects lol

but that’s like the general gist

biased towards speed over heat

[latent moon]

i feel like some of these assume you get a good hammer lmao

[stone rune]

but good heat aspect i also put up there

the game in its default installation actually features a setting to select your hammer

i do not think there is any other way of playing the game

[formal orbit]

Is zeus good for speed?

[stone rune]

no

it’s pretty garbage

but i had to put it somewhere topish

because heat

same with rama

[formal orbit]

Yeah, my first 32 was with it

[wispy sinew]

Alot of your lower choices are my favorites or use most 😆

[stone rune]

u don’t gotta listen to me

or play how i play

yk

i’m just out here gaming

[wispy sinew]

Nah I get you I noticed alot of people agree with you on my choices haha

[stone rune]

play however is fun 4 u

[formal orbit]

I do think chiron is quite good for high heat so should it be higher?

[latent moon]

it's not

[stone rune]

it is not

[latent moon]

it's main issue is like

[stone rune]

it is very poor at everything

[latent moon]

medium/low/mediocre single target damage and no aoe

and isn't that fast, so tight deadline can be an issue depending on your heat level

[stone rune]

the heat record with it have nothing to do with chiron

the 57 is deadly strike twin shot

[wispy sinew]

Like for exagryph my go to is hiesta or zag,talos for malphon,chaos,hades,and nemesis or zag for sword

[formal orbit]

Well, I did play em4 with td2 with how safe chiron is

[wispy sinew]

The bow I get to later but ima use gem

[formal orbit]

But you’re right, without poseidon dash, chiron kinda bad

[stone rune]

chiron is unsafe

the special locks u in place for approximately 11.872 years

[latent moon]

chiron is fine for em4

it struggles like everywhere else

the main problem is like

normal rooms

sorta

well most of its issues anyways

[stone rune]

have u ever tried to kill a cloner anything on chiron

it is so bad

[latent moon]

bad bp perks aren't exclussive to chiron

[formal orbit]

My worst nightmare is sneak at dad fight

That thing is annoying

[latent moon]

yeah it's pretty bad in general

[stone rune]

yeah but on chiron it’s so bad to deal with

[latent moon]

i mean cloner savior is bad on hestia

[stone rune]

even on hestia u can git gud at aiming and turn on aim at cursor for a little while with cloners

on chiron it’s so hard to actually tag the main guy

[latent moon]

using bp perks to show why chiron sucks isn't a great argument

[wispy sinew]

Why does it sound like rock or alt when zag plays that instrument that threw me 😆

[stone rune]

he’s bad at lyre

or harp

or whatever

[wispy sinew]

I think I'm almost done with it finally

For dark reflection list why is the ones that I bought not showing I got it done?

[fringe garnet]

I can't even with this game review

"CONS The characters and the dialogue weren't great. The voice acting was a big letdown, seemed amateur, lacking of emotion. Music was forgettable but one theme."

[jagged hamlet]

Graaaaats!

[jagged hamlet]

The best way to run ME is to get it working via dash-strike, right?

[formal orbit]

Yeah, although zeus can make it work without dash

[stone crane]

Who said this lol?

[stiff obsidian]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1088591737309638746/1151880439011741828/image.png

do i unironically sell cast and get another one

[dire tendon]

you have mirage

screw it

zagflare 50

i mean realistically rd is giving the least damage but zagflare is funny

[stiff obsidian]

i sold mirage lmao bc i thought i could get it back

[lusty robin]

Has anyone died to Hades while defeating him at the same time?

I think it happened to me on a run yesterday and it seemed to freeze and do some interesting effect on the screen. Curious if it was a glitch or a real thing programmed in

[mossy berry]

So, I just got dropped a diamond from buying a 300obol pom in the final area. Am I lucky or is this a common occurrence?

[dire tendon]

mirage is less damage than rd

i mean

more\

[stiff obsidian]

yea i forgor its multiplicative

[dire tendon]

since rd is additive and mirage is multiplicative

unless you had no other additive sources of damage, in which case they'd be the same

flare sell would lose the most damage but would be the funniest

[lusty robin]

Never have had that happen to me. I’ve gotten nectar from Poms I think but not diamonds

[stiff obsidian]

would it lose the most if i got another flare

even if its unpommed

[dire tendon]

(flare is x3(+radius+wallbang) mirage is x2 rd is +100smth)

[dire tendon]

if you got like aphro flare it'd be like fine

but immediately zagflare does 50

and your flood flare is like 152

[stiff obsidian]

deadge

died anyway

[mossy berry]

Maybe I didn't pay attention and it was a nectar. I was just mashing the buy button xD

Can this happen in any shop or just in ||styx|| ?

[stiff obsidian]

i need the aoe

indeed

i get mirage anyway so its fine

i did em4 for funnies that run so i could go ri0 ap1

does rarity matter much for it

no hell mode too

[dire tendon]

you probably just bought the diamond

you cant get nectar from poms, its the other way around

[lusty robin]

I’ve sometimes seen a nectar drop after clearing a chamber or from a trove

I might be misremembering

[lusty robin]

Yeah that’s from the contractor but I think I’ve seen a nectar physically drop out of some rewards. Maybe that’s a contractor thing I did too that I forgot

[dire tendon]

you could get it out of like sunken treasure maybe

[lusty robin]

I’ll try uploading the clip of what happened when it seemed to happen to me later

[dire tendon]

nectar can appear as a chamber and trove reward

[mossy berry]

Now I don't trust myself anymore xD

[fringe garnet]

Just someone random on a metacritic review

[stiff obsidian]

how does cod work on beowold?

[stone rune]

it sucks

it goes around player

not at bull rush/cshot

[stiff obsidian]

so it activates as soon as you cast?

or do you have to rush to activate it

[latent moon]

I believe you have to rush to activate

[stone rune]

you do have to rush

but it doesn’t stay in place after you rush

it centers around zag

like normal for

cod

[stiff obsidian]

technically more damage since it pulses thrice right

[stone rune]

and it’s also really slow proc

so don’t take it

[stiff obsidian]

ok

[latent moon]

It does more damage but it's more impractical to use lmao

Standing strikes on bow do more damage but it's too slow to realistically use

Same idea with cod basically

[stone rune]

i think it’s probably still lower dps

[latent moon]

Also probably tbh

You don't get your casts back until it's done

[stone rune]

i feel like by the time the third wave procs you could have shot out another volley on normal build

[stiff obsidian]

ah yeah

[latent moon]

And picking it up and hitting another mirage shot boosted cast does more damage

[stiff obsidian]

does mirage shot still do 100% dmg on cod though

[stone rune]

can’t get right

[latent moon]

Yeah you can't get both

[stiff obsidian]

oh

[latent moon]

Ngl if you could that might be a good alternative for Achilles lmao

[stiff obsidian]

they dont seem like duos that contradict each other

[latent moon]

Yeah but games weird lmao

Maybe there was a bug and the devs just said "yeah I don't want to deal with this and it sorta makes sense if we just made them mutually exclusive"

Which honestly fair

[stiff obsidian]

yeah not something that hasnt happened before

[mossy berry]

What is cod?

[stone rune]

curse of drowning

[stiff obsidian]

call of duty

[wispy sinew]

So I'm doing the codex to complete that an get the rewards the one isn't registering that I have seen an bought certain mirror perks what do I do

[mossy berry]

Yeah, google was not helpful because of that

[stiff obsidian]

lmao

[normal hazel]

best aspect for the bow?

[stone rune]

hera for speed

rama for heat

[normal hazel]

and best boons?

[sharp crypt]

im so excited for the second game lol

[gleaming thistle]

…hey so what engine are the Hades games in?

[lusty robin]

I’ve never been in Discord the same time an announcement drops. Crazy how quickly there were 500 reacts