I think it’s something to do with enemy spawns not being consistent
#h1-discussion
raw herald
obsidian linden
I just want to see if someone have hit* our pal Hades for litteraly 10mn because of damage and heat being too restrictive
latent moon
what
raw herald
there are 2 out there but one is routed unm
amb did the route too
latent moon
oh i heard she was working on it but i never knew she finished
charred cipher
triple jab or flurry jab
mint coral
Flurry
old sparrow
About to play for the first time, do you guys think the game plays best with a controller or Mouse and keyboard?
gentle solstice
the one you feel more comfortable with
lethal bay
Is passion or flood flare better, also are there any duo boons that synergize with these that aren't mirage shot?
latent moon
well
if you're using flood flare on beo you wanna get mirage shot lmao
that's like the whole point of flood flare
old sparrow
the one you feel more comfortable with
that doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious what most people use.
gentle solstice
that doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious what most people use.
oh ok
latent moon
it's a rough split of kbm and controller lol
they both have pros and cons
in top level play, there's a mix of both
old sparrow
I fell like 3d isometric games suffer from wasd movement, but you get really fast inputs.
stone rune
About to play for the first time, do you guys think the game plays best with a c...
either
latent moon
you can aim a lot more precise with the mouse tho, so that covers for that weakness
stone rune
i'd probably prefer kbm i think
old sparrow
Oh yeah yeah, that's true I think I'll try mouse and key first! thanks for chatting it out with me 😄
latent moon
i mean if you have access to both, see what you like lol
stone rune
i just cant create a functional layout for gamepad
latent moon
my friend has both a controller and kbm, and for different games they switch it up
old sparrow
I switch it up a lot too
stone rune
i wont use a gamepad
old sparrow
for any game or just this one?
stone rune
unless it's configured very well
and has gryo
in general
firstly having to use one is just less convenient and they have less buttons
and they dont control your pc
i alt tab too much for a gamepad
old sparrow
I use a microsoft elite 2 with the 4 back paddles, in juncture with REWASD which allows me to reprogram any button to any input. I'll never go back. IF the devs made a bad configuration I can change it through the pc.
old sparrow
what do you need the gyro for if you don't mind me asking? I'm just curious while I'm downloading lol
stone rune
aim
in fps or third person
doesnt really matter for 2d game
but i just wouldnt spend money on that
old sparrow
sweet well I'm loaded in 😄 Off to discover this game for the first time laters!
lethal bay
Is the passion or flood flare better?
stone rune
passion flare on its own is better
flood flare is generally preferable though
because it opens mirage
lethal bay
ok, should I start with poseidon keepsake?
stone rune
yep
also flood flare has big aoe
and goes through walls
and no tiny flare bug
so yea
latent moon
flood is better because it opens up mirage and has respectable damage until elysium
latent moon
if you dont want to go for mirage, passion is better
lethal bay
Also fiery prescence is best right?
latent moon
yeah
weak charm
calm zenith
Rare crop appears more when you only have one boon
native blade
I’ve never been that unlucky.
latent moon
my sub6 run had rare crop has my second boon lmao
latent moon
might be a dumb question, but can you sell rare crop?
i'm pretty sure you can't but just making sure
latent moon
surreal veldt
Smashed through the 10 clears now going for postgame. Such an amazing game… wish I was playing it around release time to indulge in the hype and discussion
sour fog
i'm pretty sure you can't but just making sure
yeah you can't
latent moon
cool thanks
calm zenith
Only one of those unpommables you can sell is Life Affirmation iirc
I forget if positive outlook and the bad one work that way. They might.
latent moon
speedcord has a list of all unpommables, but i'm pretty sure i've marked the ones that can't be sold
latent moon
Only one of those unpommables you can sell is Life Affirmation iirc
can you check this for me?
the blue ones are correct according to speedcord
i'm more unsure about the red ones since that's all through just my experience
calm zenith
Yeah seems right
Yeah 100%
None of those would make sense or be fair to sell too. Helps remember.
latent moon
cool thanks
calm zenith
Wait the Stands are red too
calm zenith
Never seen it possible + doesn't make much sense
latent moon
yeah that makes sense actually
calm zenith
You could use the bonus tagged Athena dd and then the game would probably need some workaround to remove a dd or something
Just wouldnt work
latent moon
true
native blade
Do Fated Persuasion is worth reseting the mirror ?
Yeah.
rancid panther
I say don't be afraid to use key for reseting.
until you get enough darkness to unlock everything,
play around with what seems right for you.
You will always get more keys.
Also, make sure to visit the wretched broker after
every escape attempt, he might have some good
discounts for keys
latent moon
Keys are pretty worthless after you get every weapon and all the mirror perks except for the 15 keys -> 1 titan blood special trade
obsidian linden
Ok thanks
surreal veldt
I got lightning rod duo for the first time….. it’s beautifully broken 😂
lime crypt
guys i died
and went to this random place got a new weapon
but now im stuck how do i leave this place 😭
there are 2 doggos and a guy who seems liike the judge
rancid panther
Do you want to explain a bit more what this place is?
Maybe add a screenshot of where you are
lime crypt
Maybe add a screenshot of where you are
check dm
rancid panther
That's the starting area
lime crypt
yes im stuck here from 2 hours
lime crypt
bottom right
rancid panther
yep.
East wing
lime crypt
its locked
rancid panther
send a screen shot of that area
there is a locked area at the start
But you have a hallway you can go into at the north part
to the left of the locked gate
lime crypt
i went there i got a weapon
lime crypt
im there
rancid panther
there, to the right (east) there is a window
get close to it
you'll get a prompt to begin
lime crypt
I was roaming around like an idiot from 2 damn hours 😢
rancid panther
At least you got to admire all the architecture
lime crypt
HAHAH true
rancid panther
Have fun
lime crypt
yay it started now tysm :"D
rancid panther
@lime crypt
To avoid spoilers, ask your questions in #h1-for-new-players.
Wouldn't want you to ruin your first experience of the game.
Unless you don't care about spoilers.
Or in the appropriate channel.
Better to read the channel description to get an
idea what it's about
mint coral
im glad I wasn't the only one who missed the window the first time
hardy spear
rancid panther
I'm sure we all missed something the first time we played the game.
Most games actually.
And that's perfectly fine.
As long as nobody berates you for How could you have missed that?!
Everything is fine
native blade
I literally didn't notice the button to switch mirror until I had 100% it.
rancid panther
lime crypt
<@719223357626646618>
To avoid spoilers, ask your questions in <#72502134796871...
ok sure!
brisk trail
I'm sure we all missed something the first time we played the game.
Most games a...
For at least the first 20-35 hours I spent in Hades I just absolutely refused to read what the keepsakes do so I just kept the egg for like 30 runs cause I thought it was cool xD I lowkey miss the early game blunders, all part of the game and learning how it works 😄
Sitting at a firm 150 hours now and tryna max out all the aspects and bonds
rancid panther
brisk trail
Gave my name a quick change
rancid panther
brisk trail
How do you get the "Hades" role?
rancid panther
Check #bot-commands
The pinned message
You can see channel messages on how other users did that
?rank Hades
brisk trail
yay
rip no Bouldy role 😦
<@&456908176877551658> Any shot of getting a Bouldy role? xD
hexed smelt
Please don't use the Moderator ping for jokes. Also, no.
brisk trail
Oh, apologies, meant no annoyance
hexed smelt
You'll have to make do with the Hades role unfortunately 
at least it's. mostly bouldy-coloured?
brisk trail
Haha yeah no I was only kidding no stress, sorry dude
hollow violet
So who was gonna tell me that the "weird crystals" in the corner of Skelly's room were statues? 😂
fair basalt
this games soundtrack is so epic
native blade
Indeed
rancid panther
this games soundtrack is so epic
Its usually played on my spotify daily.
Very good.
Also bastion ost is great
mint coral
All 4 games have stellar oat
stone rune
stellar oat
mint coral
latent moon
i do love oats
latent moon
32 heat DDs moment
stone rune
.99
latent moon
oh yeah that happens
native blade
hardy spear
oh
calm zenith
I should use Stubborn more
I just dont do anything where I die much tbh
Maybe on these backstab Gilga runs I'll try it
Athena DDs will be great options since they dont consume slots (pom/sell options), and maybe I can try using High Confidence
Like I can play GY fine. Why not. Just pick up more hearts.
native blade
Maybe on these backstab Gilga runs I'll try it
Oh hell yeah, SD goes hard on Gilga.
native blade
Athena DDs will be great options since they dont consume slots (pom/sell options...
HC is also goated on Gilga.
native blade
Athena DDs will be great options since they dont consume slots (pom/sell options...
I would suggest if you're going to do this build that you pivot to Dark Gen and Bouldy's companion as well.
stone rune
not consistent
calm zenith
Like vitality is passive healing which doesnt require any resources
Fair
I think its consistent with Bouldy, taking troves, shops and wells
stone rune
vitality will heal your HC back if you took atrophic curse
calm zenith
Plus on Gilgamesh at least you take more boss damage
Fair
I just think both have value
stone rune
and dark regen heals you precisely at the point when you don’t need healing
calm zenith
Sometimes sure. Sometimes you need more boss healing.
stone rune
there’s literally a fountain right there
calm zenith
I primarily use Maim on bosses and that plus higher damage numbers from bosses adds up
stone rune
and then chthonic will heal the rest over time
calm zenith
So a bonus like 30-50 healing is solid
stone rune
I primarily use Maim on bosses and that plus higher damage numbers from bosses a...
then pop a dd
calm zenith
I guess I could. I would have to rebuy it or take Patty specifically for that.
stone rune
200 is cheap enough just purse if you’re broke
i’ll roll wells for a dd in speedruns if i need it
because i suck
calm zenith
I'd rather carry a God keepsake for building
stone rune
i only usually need to on nem though
calm zenith
Even if it's only passive
With some luck and the right decisions often enough you can get better odds at getting what you are aiming for early
I'm talking like idk ares > athena > athena for ME
Then swap to a 3rd keepsake for Styx
latent moon
I dont get why people dont like dark regen besides speed
It's really only useful after bosses and I guess if you take darkness troves, but at that point the healing from chthonic vitality is already healing more throughout the run
I guess like oceans bounty and eclipses will have a purpose
calm zenith
Fair.
I just use bouldy if I need heals in the middle of a run
And dark regen adds an extra heal to bouldy
latent moon
I'd also assume the more you turn up lc the more dark regen sucks
calm zenith
For sure
I'm just saying it is more rewarding the slower you go
More darkness you can generate
latent moon
Assuming you use shady and go for troves I guess yeah
calm zenith
Like I can pick up the food then leave the darkness for a little post-chamber heal
Like a selective vitality
When I need it
Plus the burst heal
Gilgamesh just plays weird and encourages weird stuff
Cherry doesnt quite agree with my thesis that dash strikes are a punishment, but they agree dash strikes being nerfed make them effectively punishing to use.
Wastes your FP for example
Because you're dash striking towards new enemies usually
native blade
and dark regen heals you precisely at the point when you don’t need healing
False, it depends on how much health you stack.
stone rune
you have like 125 or so in heroes right
fountain heals most of it if you take dmg
bc heroes is free
native blade
Yeah, but if it’s not full health then it’s still good that you have a fountain cuz of High Confidence.
stone rune
styx has a fountain though
native blade
Yeah, and there’s no darkness in Styx (normally).
dire tendon
the problem with dark regen is that to heal with it you have to take darkness
which is bad because its only better than gems at that point (debatable)
royal widget
the problem with dark regen is that to heal with it you have to take darkness
yea i think that's how it works
latent moon
tbf i think the biggest appeal of dark regen is that after bosses you get a large sum of it
dire tendon
so if you're offered 2 blue laurel doors with darkness as one
there's a 2/3 chance you won't use it anyways
since nectar and keys are better
furthermore since each darkness room is like what
10?
thats only 11 health per room
assuming 2 darkness rooms throughout tart, for example, that's 22 health from dark regen (ignoring c13c14) instead of 36 (33?) from vitality
dire tendon
i mean like
dire tendon
the amount of darkness you get
per room
boss darkness doesnt matter because you're already healed to 75%+ from fountain
royal widget
dark reg is really only viable with oceans bounty/ eclipse
dire tendon
and with cthonic vitality you'll heal that up anyways
still not really though, it still means you need to take darkness or eclipse from chaos
(bounty is acceptable, sometimes you dont want pos boons lol)
stone rune
legacy 😔
royal widget
legacy is straight ass
dire tendon
dark regen means you'll waste a lot of your potential healing on overheals every boss
dire tendon
legacy is straight ass
beowulf in semi-shambles
royal widget
dark regen means you'll waste a lot of your potential healing on overheals every...
and it makes you focus troves
dire tendon
what the hell is a trove
dire tendon
huh
royal widget
Infernal Troves are chests that may occasionally be found in the underworld. They may contain Obols, Darkness, Health, or Gemstone.
Upon trying to open an Infernal Trove, enemies begin to spawn in. These enemies must be killed quickly, as the reward from the Trove decays slowly the longer the challenge continues. Upon all enemies being killed, the timer freezes, and Zagreus may collect his reward from the Trove.
dry mauve
i think dark regen was very helpful when i was new
since it gives you healing from stuff you want to be doing anyways
dire tendon
but you dont wanna take darkness lol (unless you're farming it, which fair)
actually yeah
dry mauve
but i definitely think the flat healing per room is the better mirror talent outside of really early on
dire tendon
dark regen helps when you either dont have the blue upgrades or want to farm it or both
dry mauve
you want to take darkness as much as you can early imo
royal widget
oh yea darkreg is insane for farming lol
dry mauve
darkness and keys are a big priority for unlocking stuff for fresh file
dire tendon
thing is
dry mauve
also i dont think you overheal on bosses with fresh file
dire tendon
you aint unlocking dark regen on any ff category lol
dry mauve
since the fountains havent been upgraded and you're bad
dire tendon
how long does it take to get green mirror
dry mauve
i dont think it takes that many runs
royal widget
how long does it take to get green mirror
more than first call for sure
dry mauve
it also depends on how bad you are i think
the worse you are the faster green mirror unlocks
since there's less other dialogue options for nyx
i think my only controversial mirror opinion is that I almost always use stygian soul
latent moon
https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/13cdbfz/over_the_past_few_days_i_created_a_32_heat_basics/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
hopefully i don't get skinned alive by reddit
latent moon
i think my only controversial mirror opinion is that I almost always use stygian...
that doesn't really matter tbh lmao
unless it's a cast build
dry mauve
i hate playing cast builds
so i just use stygian soul so I can chuck the stone into someone to get boiling blood and then forget about it
dont have to worry about chasing down stone since it just regens
dry mauve
my personal goal was to clear 32 heat with every weapon aspect, but i ended up cheesing beowulf with charged flight since i hate cast builds and i hate the regular shield playstyle
latent moon
huh wtf i already got a comment on the reddit post that thing has 27 pages how
stone rune
and it's a question answered on page 3 of the document 😔
dry mauve
i mean they clearly didnt read the guide
given they posted within 4 minutes of the guide going up
latent moon
and it's a question answered on page 3 of the document 😔
yeah lmao
In the guide, I talk about using Lasting Consequences 4 (LC4) on the pact, so you don't get any healing. I go in depth about the pros and cons of this, and you should probably read through it.
"you should probably read through it" lmao
dry mauve
i wasnt good enough to be comfortable doing TD3 on everything so i think i mostly did TD2 for my 32 heat runs
latent moon
i probably should've mentioned like "you can modify the pact however you want, but this has shown the most consistency" or something idk
dry mauve
wasnt that big of an issue for some weapons since you can turn on DC for more heat but i had some pretty heinous setups for other weapons that took way too many attempts to beat
latent moon
lmao yeah i've seen some cursed 32 pacts
royal widget
https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/13cdbfz/over_the_past_few_days_i_...
please share funny results
royal widget
both
dry mauve
td0 with ri2 ap2
this was one of my earlier 32 heat runs, really horrible heat choices
https://i.imgur.com/ns2VdGX.jpeg
latent moon
well the one made after 4 minutes within me posting and asking a question answered on page 3 exists lmao
and page 2 is mostly pictures lmao
latent moon
this was one of my earlier 32 heat runs, really horrible heat choices
https://i....
my brother in christ how
dry mauve
funny sword
dry mauve
i think it was because i kept taking too much damage and dying with the normal mirror
so i just took off all FO and as much HL and LC as I could
and then took the really bad pacts that can technically be avoided if you high roll
dry mauve
AP2 is no problem because you just bash your head against the wall over and over again until your first boon is epic deadly strike
dry mauve
@latent moon i think artemis attack on hades spear is worth mentioning
your document basically just skips over the weapon entirely
dry mauve
i know hades spear is considered "bad" but i really like the playstyle of the weapon
stone rune
the thing is is that hades spear is just functionally a worse achilles
stone rune
hades doesnt have flurry jab 😔
latent moon
i know hades spear is considered "bad" but i really like the playstyle of the we...
Yeah it's bad so I'm not mentioning it lmao
stone rune
it's a first clear guide so it's not worth mentioning really bad aspects that would just clog it up
latent moon
It's more intuitive to buff yourself than debuff enemies
dry mauve
i think its worth mentioning every aspect even if you also add a note that certain aspects are bad
stone rune
and hades spear anyways is just like the same build as achilles except you can't get the good hammer and it doesn't buff casts
dry mauve
you never know what peoples favorite weapons are
stone rune
i think its worth mentioning every aspect even if you also add a note that certa...
this would just be a lot of clog
latent moon
i think its worth mentioning every aspect even if you also add a note that certa...
That's way too much effort when you can slap ME on it lmao
stone rune
oh yeah in achilles section mention that you don't take flurry or serrated on second hammer if you got the other for first
oh wait
you do
i can't read
latent moon
you never know what peoples favorite weapons are
I mean yeah but some aspects are easier than others for 32 heat
If they're looking for the funny number then use what I put
If they want it specifically on hades spear then they're gonna have to figure that one out lmao
dry mauve
tbh i think hades spear builds are basically just nemesis builds
except you really want artemis attack instead of it optionally being on special
latent moon
Like I could do every aspect, but also it's already a huge jumble of words
latent moon
tbh i think hades spear builds are basically just nemesis builds
Spear doesn't really have a special in its damage rotation unless you get exploding launcher
But also just do special spam at that point
dry mauve
the special boon is just to open up duos
stone rune
well like
with aph special it's useless
because heart rend only works on the enemies if they're actually weak
dry mauve
you kind of just spin and poke/dash strike enemies with hades and thats the entire game plan
latent moon
I mean
I can mention that I guess
But I'm not gonna make a bulleted list for hades spear
dry mauve
i think its worth mentioning all aspects, even if its like one or two lines of advice
latent moon
It really boils down to "fat % atk and spin" lmao
dry mauve
like zag sword can just be "copy nemesis" or something
latent moon
At that point why not play nemesis
latent moon
ME is an option
dry mauve
sure
latent moon
If they're doing all aspects they should have an idea of how to build it
Or just do ME lmao
royal widget
At that point why not play nemesis
uh, innate +15%d RD
latent moon
Have fun getting rd
Oh I guess plume zag sword exists
That's more of a speed thing tho idk how well that translates to heat
stone rune
im willing to write an extension for the badspects i guess
but it should at the very least be a diff doc
because thats too much stuff
latent moon
Could be same doc, I don't mind tbh
stone rune
for readability though
dry mauve
this is not necessary to mention but on zeus shield if i see artemis i really like finding support fire
but tbh you dont need anything besides zeus special on that thing, afterwards you can make do with basically anything
latent moon
It's already split into outline sections
stone rune
I think like
latent moon
So adding stuff isn't a big deal, just click to where you wanna go
stone rune
support fire is just good when its good and most people can sort of smell it out
latent moon
this is not necessary to mention but on zeus shield if i see artemis i really li...
Fair, but it's not really important to the build
I only mention like important boons in the guide
Like yeah supporting stuff is nice, but I don't want to make the doc 50 pages long if I do that for every aspect lmao
Whenever I mention a boon that isn't a core boon or duo, it's because it's considered important among speedrunners or high heat runners
The exception is like razor shoals lmao
But shoals is lowkey pretty strong imo
royal widget
shoals is funny but idk how good
dry mauve
Thanks mate. Very informative. Can I ask a question: I don't understand what's people's love with SD instead of DD.
latent moon
So true bestie
latent moon
There's no way anyone read the doc in 4 minutes and missed that part lmao
You take one look at those pacts and should think "wtf lc4??"
dry mauve
one thing i do appreciate about LC4 is that touch of styx is super cheap to buy even with CF on
royal widget
99 base innit
dry mauve
seeing 360 gold death defiance in the well with CF2 is pain
latent moon
Touch of Styx lasting 15 encounters is so based
royal widget
touch of styx is so based
latent moon
i wanted to mention how if you buy touch of styx in the well before asphodel with hourglass, it can last until dad fight assuming you get a 2 sack lmao
but also i dont think anyone wants to use hourglass at that point
calm zenith
Zag sword is weird. I've considered using it on a flurry or world splitter build
But Nemesis would still do better
Does it work with RD properly?
It would actually be kinda thematic if Zag sword opened up RD
As a move to make the cover weapon more meta
calm zenith
Makes sense lol
calm zenith
It doesnt
calm zenith
If it did that would be helpful
stone rune
7.5% boost poggies
calm zenith
Sprint doesnt always appear
You could get sprint 2nd instead of 1st
Just better odds
stone rune
thats the principle behind plume
calm zenith
Ik
latent moon
thats the principle behind plume
the one time i tried that, i had a yarn and got greater recall lmao
calm zenith
The other day I had ambrosia delight going into Ely and betted on a c2 Hermes, so I brought Plume to get Greater Recall
stone rune
immense
calm zenith
Yeah
stone rune
i need an aspect to run
calm zenith
Do it
stone rune
i hate you both
calm zenith
Join the dark side
latent moon
at least it'll be fun
stone rune
but the dashes suck
latent moon
but you have 3
calm zenith
No they dont
stone rune
i dont wanna play ME
calm zenith
You just need to use them better
stone rune
and i dont wanna do anything else either
latent moon
then do dash only
latent moon
@dry mauve is this good enough lmao
Hades spear can take a % modifier on the attack and go for spins and dash strikes. Look for Quick Spin if you do a spin based Hades build. It’s more intuitive and faster to buff yourself than debuff enemies, which makes Achilles better than Hades, but you can still use Hades if you want.
i just threw that at the end of the Spear section
above achilles
calm zenith
Then leave Maim to kill at like 33% hp or lower depending on heat etc
Judge yourself what 400+ dmg looks like
May as well use it and not waste time on an already dead enemy
You could have already moved to another enemy or group or Lernie head by the time you finish up
dry mauve
<@134204876962922505> is this good enough lmao
> Hades spear can take a % modifi...
i'll accept it
you have passed
calm zenith
Use it right
What are you doing
Dash strikes are weak you gotta chunk from enemy to enemy with minimal dashes
stone rune
chunking for like 60 damage
calm zenith
Unless you're using like Dio attack
stone rune
every 5 years
stone rune
not when its super mega slow
royal widget
60 is high damage
not once per second
calm zenith
It's not once per second
stone rune
achilles puts out 55*4 in like 0.3 seconds
calm zenith
Nah
stone rune
idk why they couldnt just let you have normal dashes
calm zenith
Because these allow for more accurate placement, better application of dash boons, some other factors I'm forgetting
Its meant to be unique
Most other weapons play exactly the same and Gilga can even do that
Besides like bow and cshot
Or cast builds
royal widget
gilg is as much of a cast build as eris
stone rune
~~gilg is as much of a cast build as eris~~
eris castspect actually works though
stone rune
it's just that clockets is like better
stone rune
50
tepid plover
Damn, that high heat with ap2 is impressive
calm zenith
It's the best hammer combo in the game
royal widget
allow triple clockets with anvil
stone rune
latent moon
230 tart exit
i've sub10ed on this pace
royal widget
@latent moon is athena call better at high heats?
latent moon
oh for sure
stone rune
i've sub10ed on this pace
well yea
royal widget
ah
stone rune
it's 1/4 of sub10
and all the other biomes are usually shorter
but like
sub10 fake
latent moon
<@384127040992837633> is athena call better at high heats?
like it's straight up invincibility lmao it's great
stone rune
im trying to allweps sub7 but i do not want to play bow or fists
latent moon
the only reason you dont want to take athena call is if the other option is a DD refill and you managed to cheese it
calm zenith
Yeah the only issue with it is it doesnt do dmg or open up smair
latent moon
or ddash
stone rune
i dont know how they made fists so intolerably frustrating
calm zenith
They arent
tepid plover
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/1069732840197066832/...
Rail gaming
latent moon
Damn, that high heat with ap2 is impressive
i did 51 lol
tepid plover
Build?
calm zenith
And gilga are barely fists
stone rune
Rail gaming
this got funny green boon
latent moon
Build?
it was actually in a haelian video lol
where he rated builds he saw on reddit
stone rune
oh yeah i remember that
latent moon
gave me an 8/10 because i didn't get mirage shot through ap2
calm zenith
Killing freeze gaming
stone rune
killing freeze should do like
tepid plover
gave me an 8/10 because i didn't get mirage shot through ap2 <:bouldy:5233291169...
Should've gotten mirage shot, smh my head
calm zenith
It does huge dmg
stone rune
shoals is literally free
calm zenith
And works with rd
stone rune
and ticks 5 times a second
killing freeze is hard in normal rooms and only ticks twice a second
calm zenith
Most t2s like that are bad in normal rooms
latent moon
killing freeze is extremely based for bosses
latent moon
Should've gotten mirage shot, smh my head
yeah my bad
tepid plover
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/1059931867765280859/...
Absolutely carried by bouldy
calm zenith
Should have gotten Mirage with pflare with ap2
dry mauve
if you were a god gamer you would have known to throw your cast randomly two more times to open up mirage shot
latent moon
true
tepid plover
Ezclap
latent moon
should've gotten a natural pos and arty
latent moon
wdym
tepid plover
Cause you're not a God gamer
dry mauve
its done on seeded runs im pretty sure
calm zenith
When I throw casts to try to alter a boon, it doesnt do it
I tried that on a c1 boon like 10 times earlier
latent moon
oh that's because it's c1
tepid plover
Lol
calm zenith
Oh okay
calm zenith
Cast doesnt work but pots/shades do?
calm zenith
Reroll manip
latent moon
you just can't really see it unless you use the routing mod or keep track of routing
oh rerolls, no clue
maybe you can
on the other hand, why lmao
stone rune
dupe wells
latent moon
oh i forgot it gives 3/4 cores
tepid plover
The only thing that matters is Bouldy
dry mauve
wait i cant believe i forgot about the biggest hades spear tech
you can extend the range of your spin by dashing out of it
for some reason a lot of people dont know this so if you are writing a guide on off meta aspects its definitely worth pointing out
calm zenith
Yeah it's just 1 reroll
stone rune
wait i cant believe i forgot about the biggest hades spear tech
you can extend ...
thats just spear
calm zenith
If I need something specific it's worth it
latent moon
i've played too much modded i forgot c1 isn't 4 boons lmao
calm zenith
I spin on GY
latent moon
i mean guan yu has a case
stone rune
the gy heat record spins in order to get the hp for a chaos gate lol
tepid plover
I spin all aspects, I'm a garen main
latent moon
the gy heat record spins in order to get the hp for a chaos gate lol
that's honestly so based
and hilarious
dry mauve
i think GY dash spins are weird since the spin fires a projectile
calm zenith
Yeah I've done that its great
stone rune
it extends range
dry mauve
im not sure how the hitbox works since i only use special on GY
calm zenith
I used to do chaos egg GY starts sometimes
Get a lunge or flourish
You havent lived until you've done ruthless reflex serrated GY
Gambling
Get -dash on your Lunge
Perfect start
calm zenith
Nah
latent moon
ngl i dont know how or when i got a clear with ruthless reflex
calm zenith
At like no heat its absolutely fine with some practice
If you're doing fo2 then yeah it's not a great idea unless you get really lucky really early.
latent moon
i straight up have no recollection of it ever happening lmao
calm zenith
Like the dodge it gives does matter
I gotta force a very difficult smair build on gilga
Athena call smair, billowing strength and hermes' call boon, rd, swift strike
Not even great but it would be fun
And probably splitting bolt
royal widget
is athena smair an actual strat at high heat?
latent moon
i mean if you can get smair, you'd rather just go for a dps call
stone rune
well either it's highish heat in which case you dont need it or it's high heat in which case you aren't getting smair
and like those 62 clears all get dio call
tepid plover
If you're not fighting hades with chaos egg everytime are you playing correctly
royal widget
egg SUCKS just tank it
royal widget
@tepid plover wrong
tepid plover
latent moon
someone just said that taking em4 at 32 heat should be considered lmao
latent moon
Broken spearpoint > acorn don't @ me
only applicable in styx or em4 tbh
surreal veldt
I’ve bonded with queen, given full nectars to gods, but can’t get ambrosia prompts….. did I go too fast through things?
20ish clears, 45 runs
tepid plover
only applicable in styx or em4 tbh
If you're not playing em4, you're not truly gaming, so yeah i was referring to em4
latent moon
I’ve bonded with queen, given full nectars to gods, but can’t get ambrosia promp...
nah you're fine
you'll get it soon enough
latent moon
If you're not playing em4, you're not truly gaming, so yeah i was referring to e...
i mean acorn is better assuming you dont get butterfly ball lmao
or sneak i think
tepid plover
Yeah, that's the problem
Its also really good for Styx while we're at it
I usually rock Hermes, then persephone on aspho+elysium. Then switch to spearpoint after champions
If I'm feeling confident I keep persephone after champions
calm zenith
Are people finally coming around on spearpoint
It's not like it just blocks 1 hit
It's a brief shield
Though I did recently have a really good athena legendary + acorn finish
Only used 1 acorn proc
That's a nice combo
And luckily I like Brilliant Riposte
fickle crystal
I've always wondered why I never get Athena legendary
TIL it has brilliant riposte as prerequisite which I usually don't take
latent moon
Are people finally coming around on spearpoint
i mean it's always been a tactic for em4 and styx
latent moon
Hey there, thank you so much for putting this together. Damn, are you accepting anything donations or something along that line? Show me looking at it and going over the first maybe five pages. I was looking at some of your things and I was like wait what😱😱😱😱😳🤕😵😵💫😶🌫️. It's a 32 run heat... looking at your packs of punishment the reality of that is sinking in. I am not ready. I have some work to do. Thank you again. This is something that overwhelming and still do able and when I'm able to achieve this. I feel like Charlie did when he killed ogdo boss.
can someone decipher this
like i kinda get it but also i dont know what the last 2 lines are saying lmao
latent moon
i'd assume moist critical
surreal veldt
I cannot work out the Rama bow 🙇♂️. It just feels so low damage. I timed out in Elysium …. Tried to stack on special
latent moon
special only rama only works well if you have thunder flourish on it
on the other hand
use the attack lol
it'll be a lot faster
dash strike into the shot to charge it faster
surreal veldt
I didn’t have a problem with the other bows…. Don’t know why Rama feels different
latent moon
big chunky bow charges slow
latent moon
I didn’t have a problem with the other bows…. Don’t know why Rama feels differen...
i made a brief rama guide here, pretty bare bones but it should help a bit
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16_JXPaAt8fegie6Ss2x5tVeaR-FzoFlIgp0etd3yLHI/edit#heading=h.mgdkz9nt4ter
surreal veldt
Cheers I’ll check it out
calm zenith
With Rama it's all about timing out how much of a charge you need to one shot a crowd
This becomes easier with the best hammers, twin/triple shot and point blank shot.
Dont stack % damage on the special. Its 5 base damage.
The lowest easily.
It's purely for applying curses and the Shared Suffering debuff.
And that includes flat damage like Bolts from Zeus
Rama is actually the best Thunder Flourish user iirc
With Zeus bolts there is an internal cooldown. Rama lines up best with it and also sort of gets around the cooldown by ricocheting.
Whereas the next best, probably Zeus shield, is single target or small crowd only.
If you just want a really strong build:
Special: Zeus
Attack: Aphrodite
Dash: Artemis if she shows up
Call: Zeus
Aim for Smouldering Air.
latent moon
Rama is actually the best Thunder Flourish user iirc
I guess you're not exactly wrong but I hate how you're right lmao
calm zenith
Yeah it's funny
It should only work with curses but it exceeds with Zeus which scales really well and normally doesnt do well with other aspects
latent moon
Like in a vacuum rama special spam is better than on Zeus
It only becomes an issue at like higher heats
calm zenith
Like Jolted is contributing dmg but only Rama is really applying maximum bolts
I think even swift flourish contributes dps?
latent moon
No clue
calm zenith
Yeah
latent moon
I feel like it might make it hit the internal cooldown lmao
latent moon
Well no because you'd lose a bolt
latent moon
Probably
If you're doing special only then it'd probably be better to get a lower rarity swift flourish lmao
If you're also using the atk, epic is probably fine because you mainly want to spread shared suffering and inflict jolted
And like a faster start up time for the special is nice
calm zenith
Yeah
native blade
calm zenith
What
calm zenith
Lol
wraith sand
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1105412987017232435/im...
bro doing an entire run in Erebus
calm zenith
Maim cant hurt you now
fair basalt
is hades hairline real
native blade
is hades hairline real
Yes.
rancid panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1105412987017232435/im...
If stubborn defiance was rounded down...
native blade
Lmao.
rancid panther
4 casts, festive fog, and Flurry Cast, is crazy.
That and stygius, aspect of poseidon is even crazier.
That was a fun build to discover and play with
native blade
4 casts, festive fog, and Flurry Cast, is crazy.
That and stygius, aspect of pos...
Nice, I wanna try Pos build, it seems hella cool.
rose escarp
I just finished my 10 runs and got the credits! Having played bastion and transistor before this you really see how far they've come! Very good game and I feel they perfected the narration in this game too
native blade
I just finished my 10 runs and got the credits! Having played bastion and transi...
Nice!
mint coral
No pyre? :c
stone rune
did you know that RI technically has synergy with itself because no DF means you get more keys to combat your no pers
rose escarp
No pyre? :c
Nu :c I had bastion and transistor on my backlog of steam games i never played… but definitely gonna have to try it out
i think i sadly missed the sale too 
royal widget
did you know that RI technically has synergy with itself because no DF means you...
yes
native blade
lament wraith
One message removed from a suspended account.
latent moon
yeah flood shot
unironically lmao
oh you have a full god pool already
yeah i'd still do it
or sell atk for aphrodite atk later
flood shot more consistent tho
stone rune
i hate that bow exists
and fists
i dont want to play either of these
i think i might just leave it at 4/6 sub7 because these weps suck
hera is literally so hard
latent moon
sub7 zag bow ez
stone rune
i tried and it literally doesn't deal damage
you poke your enemies
unless you get that sweet sweet 27.8% crit chance
latent moon
well get the better numbers
stone rune
and it didnt even one hit armor off lernie heads
hollow violet
I use Poseidon or Athena special on the bow.
latent moon
special isn't useful on zag bow lol
stone rune
yea
hollow violet
With rupture damage, it's nice though.
stone rune
just get tdash
latent moon
that's why tidal dash exists lol
hollow violet
I get both.
latent moon
and it didnt even one hit armor off lernie heads
get better numbers duh
stone rune
wait rama guide says shadow presence
latent moon
there's a rama guide?
stone rune
no wait
latent moon
ocaml uses fiery lmao
stone rune
it doens't
it says fiery in the mirror section
but then
Blinding Flash adds a decent bit of damage if you’re getting backstabs consistently, which you usually should be. However, applying it is non-trivial, as you’ll usually have to do so with the cast which can be unreliable.
stone rune
there's a rama guide?
this is why i asked to put it in compendium
it doesnt even say who made it lol
oh
it's not finished
latent moon
Blinding Flash adds a decent bit of damage if you’re getting backstabs consisten...
weird
idk then lmao
stone rune
yeah this doc is rlly weird
it may or may not have been written by lili back in the dark ages but i can't tell
and it's just not finished lol
calm zenith
Does Freezing Vortex stack with Hunting Blades?
calm zenith
Yeah that sucks. Almost had a sick Gilga build
Also have Rending which is what you need for a cast build
Should I take slicing shot anyway? Probably not
Rare Battle Rage it is
I'm not a Rama pro but really I feel like my summary is a fair one. You need to know your breakpoints and damage output extremely well, and pull it all off within the time frame of Shared Suffering, while also applying Shared Suffering to as many targets as possible.
That skill cap makes it very potent at high heats/progressing heat even
It just has raw strength. That's a good starting point. Then you go from there and actually learn to use it properly.
If you're good with bow you can probably manage how punishing it can be.
Probably not an aspect for people who dont already like bow
Which is why Jazz hates it I guess lol. It's a more advanced bow.
And I guess its playstyle is technically more clunky than just reloading with Hestia
But it obviously handles crowds and DC infinitely better just baseline.
I guess Hestia still has special, but even with FP that alone, no hammer or boon yet, probably wont reach breakpoints. Idk.
60*1.75=105
Maybe with shackle sure
165
With Rama theoretically you can always reach breakpoints, for a whole crowd, and it has inherent large aoe just on its attack
latent moon
I'm not a Rama pro but really I feel like my summary is a fair one. You need to ...
Knowing break points is a pain lmao
calm zenith
Yeah real Rama pros are insane
latent moon
Especially with rama because it doesnt have like a hard number value that you know until it's fully charged if that makes sense
latent moon
Maybe I'll get back into speedrunning rama
calm zenith
Especially for speed because you could save fractions of seconds by not overkilling
latent moon
But that's also a lot of pain lmao
latent moon
For speed at least
calm zenith
Gilgamesh I find super easy tbh
Even when I take 71 spear spins
I'm slowly raising heat so I'll see
It's not like the dad fight will get much harder if I build up to like 15 heat for Erebus gates
latent moon
Lmao gilga is probably not too bad to sub10 once you learn it
calm zenith
Yeah it can get an amazing hammer combo and that kinda carries
Explosive + Rending really is amazing
latent moon
Sub10 all aspect grind is not fun when Talos gives you a 10:0x two times in a row
calm zenith
You're avoiding damage that way and gilgamesh is probably best suited to getting behind enemies
Lmao
Gilga is a better castpect than Talos
latent moon
I didn't use it as a castpect
calm zenith
I should try Cold Embrace
latent moon
Zap fists
calm zenith
Fair
latent moon
3.5 minute Ely wasn't fun
calm zenith
Cold Embrace + the good hammers seems legit
Just dash around placing casts and dash-uppering
Still geometry but you're outputting more damage than Talos
stone rune
Which is why Jazz hates it I guess lol. It's a more advanced bow.
i like zagbow it just doesnt deal the damage
calm zenith
And tighter dashes might just help keep the beams together
It does though
I take deadly strike idk
latent moon
Just get twin shot duh
stone rune
which is why i dont play bow :3
calm zenith
You hate aoe
stone rune
beowulf:
calm zenith
Ig
calm zenith
Bow aoe is nice because enemies naturally line up like that often
And Rama is just wider
Even when you mess up you just follow up with another partial shot
As long as you can keep track of breakpoints you'll keep pace
That's just a massive ordeal
latent moon
Just get sub7 bow easy
stone rune
i have 4 of them
calm zenith
You get the right hammers and you win
stone rune
literally accidental run
latent moon
Hera is difficult on kbm lmao
So the solution is learn to aim on Hera or get a lucky zag bow run
calm zenith
Probably. Also shooting casts that far can suck
Like with lightning phalanx, normally a good build
stone rune
hera if
latent moon
Yeah missing on Hera just sends the cast flying lmao
royal widget
Hera is difficult on kbm lmao
meh
latent moon
Well for a sub7 it kinda is
latent moon
I have a sub 10 Hera somehow
I don't remember that happening
And my aim sucks lmao
royal widget
ill do another sub10 hera sometime
calm zenith
Yeah I dont play Hera enough I just started with it because it has inherent power and range
And zag bow didnt seem immediately appealing like it does now
royal widget
i just loved beowulf and upgraded accordingly
latent moon
i just loved beowulf and upgraded accordingly
Spaghetti plate funny
calm zenith
The sudden rush build was decent though just worse cshot
I think some funky build with enough luck could work though
I'm thinking Deadly Reversal again but idk
Hunter Flare, to focus on the attack
calm zenith
Might just do a shackle start for it tbh
I probably want a hammer start
Really just so I know I always get that hammer this seed
stone rune
you have less le epic updoots than my former wr though
also what does this comment mean
"Hey there, thank you so much for putting this together. Damn, are you accepting anything donations or something along that line? Show me looking at it and going over the first maybe five pages. I was looking at some of your things and I was like wait what😱😱😱😱😳🤕😵😵💫😶🌫️. It's a 32 run heat... looking at your packs of punishment the reality of that is sinking in. I am not ready. I have some work to do. Thank you again. This is something that overwhelming and still do able and when I'm able to achieve this. I feel like Charlie did when he killed ogdo boss."
is this a bot thing
native blade
is this a bot thing
Nah, prolly just an excited kid.
stone rune
but it{s so weird
I feel like Charlie did when he killed ogdo boss.
what does that even mean
native blade
Kids are weird, yes. 😂
native blade
what does that even mean
They felt badass prolly? I wonder who they meant by ogdo tho?
I looked it up… decently sure they mean Lernie.
You’re right tho, they are weird.
latent moon
also what does this comment mean
I asked that exact same question here yesterday lmao
Or like earlier today I guess technically
I think
calm zenith
What I've realized is well played Gilgamesh is just what people run Zag fists for but better
I should start up some Plume runs again
Aim for Bad News and Dodge and stuff
Like if you're doing a Dodge build, Ruthless Reflex is kinda core
Gilgamesh just uses it best
stone rune
What I've realized is well played Gilgamesh is just what people run Zag fists fo...
which is of course why it hasn’t sub6d
calm zenith
Could be that less people use it or use it well idk
stone rune
more that it’s incredibly clunky
stone rune
what
calm zenith
Dash strikes with it basically never hit on controller
stone rune
Dash strikes with it basically never hit on controller
this is an actual krill issue
calm zenith
No. Auto aim detects whatever.
stone rune
zyru plays controller
calm zenith
Irrelevant.
stone rune
kontra plays controller
calm zenith
People play Gilgamesh at a high level too. Just less.
calm zenith
And it's a you problem that you cant figure out fists or rama or hera
latent moon
Dash strikes with it basically never hit on controller
maybe remap or something, because other controller players dont have issues with that
calm zenith
Maybe. I like my binds for what I play though
stone rune
but like
ananke has combined prob thousands of hrs on fists
and a 6:11 on gilga
cherry just has a bunch of hours on gilga idk about other fists
also 6:11
stone rune
we see the classic cope
calm zenith
And the entire metric of weapon quality should be based on what functions and gets going fastest
stone rune
zagfists have higher heat and speed than gilga
calm zenith
I unblock you for one day and you make me regret it.
stone rune
because they aren’t immensely clunky
stone rune
how
are you actually just calling all of hades top players bad
like
no chaos sub6 is just because nobody wants to play it
sure
calm zenith
I'm just assuming you're a kid at this point because you really dont get "theory of mind" in any way.
stone rune
but that’s not the case for gilga
stone rune
I'm just assuming you're a kid at this point because you really dont get "theory...
what does theory of mind have to do with this