h1-discussion

[rustic vale]

No

[stone rune]

me personally i figured out how to get 5 gods in a shop

[tall trench]

maybe if Hermes counted as one of the 3 gods

I've never seen 2 Olympians offered

[rustic vale]

Yeah it’s called enter styx with less then 4 gods in pool

[tall trench]

unless one was hermes

[slim geyser]

oh alright

[tall trench]

oh dang

yeah

[stone rune]

kid named enter:

[slim geyser]

yeah i wasnt sure if you can get both a god and a mystery bag

[tall trench]

never seen it, don't think so, maybe just Hermes and the ? bag

[native blade]

[rustic vale]

Some kid named 4

[stone rune]

i still dont see why lc4 32 heat that seems unnecessarily frustrating

[tall trench]

I was a little unsure too but just went with it

[rustic vale]

It literally isn’t compared to the other options you’d take

[tall trench]

I mean lc3 is like why bother healing anyway

[stone rune]

well yeah lc3 is just silly

[rustic vale]

And you learn it at 32 so it isn’t so much of a shift when you hit 40

[tall trench]

but max heat is 32

[stone rune]

real

[rustic vale]

… 🤨

[native blade]

Might as well just play gy lv 1.

[tall trench]

there's no more rows on the spreadsheet

[rustic vale]

64 is max heat

[native blade]

There’s more, I was surprised when I found out too.

[stone rune]

no

2048 is max heat

havent you heard

they merged with that tile game

[rustic vale]

I don’t understand people thinking 32 is max heat

It just

[stone rune]

i don't think peopl edo

[tall trench]

does anyone really think that

[stone rune]

it's a joke

[rustic vale]

I’ve seen some people that unironically thought that

[tall trench]

I mean, skelly statue rewards are gonna indicate what's possible to me long before I let basic numbers phase me

[rustic vale]

Anyways

Lc4 sd > other options at 32

[stone rune]

lc2 better

[tall trench]

what would you swap into?

at lc4 at least you can give up on healing and lean fully into SD instead of chasing 50% heals

[stone rune]

lean fully on 30%

[tall trench]

well exactly

so why not just take LC3 and 4 at that point

[stone rune]

instead of 250% max health

[tall trench]

instead of up other things

[stone rune]

you get 60%

i would rather take cf or hs than lc4

[rustic vale]

I wouldn’t

Cf is actually uber annoying and 150 damage pots in hades fight are kinda

[stone rune]

cf1 isn't that bad

[rustic vale]

I only started running cf1 for 40 heat

[tall trench]

yeah but that gets you one heat, forget what lc3 and 4 give

maybe its one heat lol

[stone rune]

1

[rustic vale]

1 heat

[tall trench]

well isn't that
a thing

[stone rune]

?

[tall trench]

I just figured lc3/4 would be 2 heat or something
cf1 is not that big of a deal

I would still take lc4 though since past lc2 I'm just diregarding heals anyway

[rustic vale]

Cf1 is honestly worse then lc4 imo

[stone rune]

at lc2 fountains and stuff still give sizable chunks of your health back

i mean i just did a cf2 32 heat and it was uber easy

[tall trench]

yeah but if you're gonna end any given room at 30% (or higher if you have items which cf1 makes harder to buy) then who care about fountains

[stone rune]

i don't wanna have absolute pittance for health

[rustic vale]

Patty brings it up to 80% and lasts long enough for you to bring it to hades fight on a 2 sack

[tall trench]

yeah I got patty on last run and it was ridiculous

[rustic vale]

tbh it’s not that much of a pittance

[stone rune]

woo 160% instead of 250%

[tall trench]

but even without it was fine

30% twice is fine to clear rooms and with 32 heat its really easy to take damage and lose that fountain heal quickly

[stone rune]

if i have 200 max that's 60

[rustic vale]

At 32 heat are you keeping all your dd’s for hades fight

[stone rune]

300 90

[stone rune]

yes

[tall trench]

if you're running DD then I would not do LC4

that part makes sense

[stone rune]

well yeah

it would be utterly silly to

although

with lc4

that's with fo2 right

[tall trench]

I feel like LC2 DD 32 would be like, fine, but less forgiving of mistakes

[rustic vale]

Yup

[stone rune]

oh

that must be it

[rustic vale]

Oh god what type of pact doesn’t have fo2 lc4 for 32 heat

[stone rune]

with 200 max life and lc4 you have about 2 mistakes in hades

[tall trench]

Well yeah but em3 hades is free at this point

[rustic vale]

7 mistakes*

Acorn

[stone rune]

oh yeah

[tall trench]

I'd rather have more forgiving rooms in ely and beyond vs trying to save 3 DDs for a boss I will almost never use them on

[stone rune]

collar doesn't do anything on sd

[rustic vale]

Collar doesn’t do anything on sd

[stone rune]

125 extra hp

[rustic vale]

acorn is superior

[stone rune]

and 50 renewable extra for not just bosses

[rustic vale]

Acorn is more dmg saved for when it matters

[stone rune]

shouer

like

i guess acorn would be better on fo2

[rustic vale]

It’s universally better

[stone rune]

collar clears

[rustic vale]

Acorn clears more

[stone rune]

listen here pal

i've done 2048 heat in 0.0166666 of a second

[tall trench]

collar is more goth than acorn

[latent moon]

That's like 3 swings from hades

Acorn denies 5

Also depending on the HL level, collar gets worse

[stone rune]

whaaaateeever

[latent moon]

And by extension tooth

[stone rune]

tooth does 100 right

[latent moon]

Yeah

Collar is better assuming you have all DDs

Taking collar on lc4 SD also sucks

[rustic vale]

They’re uh

[stone rune]

would be 15 health

[rustic vale]

A dd 32 heat player

[latent moon]

I mean that's fine

[rustic vale]

It’s fine

[latent moon]

It's just harder lmao

[rustic vale]

Exactly

[latent moon]

The pact you and MiKe gave me I'm using DDs on tho lmao

[rustic vale]

Yeah because it doesn’t have lc4

Iirc

[latent moon]

It's got em4 tho baybeee

But yeah lmao

Pain

[stone rune]

uhh

so

I was doing this 32 heat lc2 fo1 run but now my laptop seems to have broken

[rustic vale]

Uh
Try js3 fo2 instead

That sounds very very fun

[stone rune]

real

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1028112977100017666/1064013736349802586/IMG_20230114_184949.jpg

[latent moon]

Is it just frozen

[stone rune]

my entire laptop is

[toxic trellis]

Yeesh

[stone rune]

can't alt tab or anything

[toxic trellis]

That’s a shame

[stone rune]

well

it was going quite well

so clearly

fo1 lc2 is easy

[rustic vale]

Tbh

[latent moon]

You'll either have to force shut down or wait, I don't remember what I did last time that happened lmao

[rustic vale]

Laptop is probably still recovering from the 2048 heat run

[stone rune]

yeah

I need a fancy laptop

this fellow runs CSGO at 45 fpss

[rustic vale]

Do you have damage numbers turned on?

[stone rune]

yeah that must be it!

too many all at once

a single frame and like 450 enemies

[rustic vale]

It should lessen it

[stone rune]

can't be good for it

I should lighten up on those 2048 heat runs

[latent moon]

You can turn those off?

[rustic vale]

Yes

unless my switch just decided not to like 75 runs ago

And hasn’t decided to again since

[tall trench]

wtf lol did a restart even fix that? that's a funky way to crash

[stone rune]

well

let's see

DO WE HAVE AN AUTOSAVE

i wonder what happened to the recording

[rustic vale]

Autosave is actually so clutch

I almost lost a few hours of progress in mhs2

[stone rune]

i saved and exited between asphodel and elysium cause i accidentally purged the wrong boon like a silly goose

LET'S GOOO

[rustic vale]

But then autosave

[stone rune]

uh

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1054474976083849236/1064015473575993394/image.png

this is the recording

wow

[rustic vale]

Based

[solar vault]

I got a switch crash after my best hades kill

that's the only time it's ever happened

[stone rune]

can you purge nourished soul

no

[rustic vale]

No

[stone rune]

so yall telling me i should be using acorn?

[solar vault]

Acorn is good

5 hits is like a lot

[stone rune]

there we go

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1064018302525001809/image.png

this heat setup was ez

being able to actually heal was quite hellpful

[rustic vale]

acorn would be so much more value here with hl3 lol

[stone rune]

dont care

collar goat

acorn would have been gone to like 7 minute hits from the minions

why wretched broker always on some bs

[rustic vale]

Wretched broker never bs

[stone rune]

dude wants blood for diamond

[rustic vale]

Valid

[stone rune]

me personally i'd have this fellow drawn and quartered

but yeah

cf2 isnt really that bad on lower heats

[latent moon]

Maybe don't get hit by those

[stone rune]

they do like 3 damage

why should i care

[latent moon]

Burn acorn

[stone rune]

also

i just bit into this saltined

and

why does it havce no salt

its in the name

salt ine

[visual sand]

ine cracker

[native blade]

Skully’s so useful.

Damn.

[stone rune]

kid named cracker:

[native blade]

U sure u didn’t get some of the unsalted ones by mistake?

[stone rune]

says they got them

[wispy hound]

Hold on, so can zagreus canonically solo a titan?

[stone rune]

is lucifer fun?

[rustic vale]

Yep

well

Subjectively

[solar vault]

it's a laser! and hellfire bombs!

[rustic vale]

Luci gameplay is kind of

Make bomb explode for big damage

[stone rune]

what's below ambrosia in the codex

it's the only artifact i haven't found

[solar vault]

the card probably?

[stone rune]

oh

yeah

probably

im petrified of fighting charon

[rustic vale]

You shouldn’t be

[latent moon]

Just fight Charon in Elysium when your buid is good

[rustic vale]

fight charon in tart where you have nothing to lose

[stone rune]

but it would give me titan blood

[stone rune]

i have streaaaaak to lose

[latent moon]

Sounds like a you issue

[rustic vale]

streaks are for losers who don’t crank up the heat too high

[stone rune]

ill do 40 eventuallllllly

[latent moon]

Now

[stone rune]

ok can someone explain to me

[latent moon]

🔫

[stone rune]

so essentially

if you're using

like

eris

or hestia or whatever

your attack goes directly at your cursor

not when it's directly above you

it's a few degrees off

but lucifer

yes

directly above you

does lucifer need high lvl

[latent moon]

Yes

Otherwise the special does like no damage

[rustic vale]

Luci massively benefits from high level

[stone rune]

augh

ive already wasted titan blood on that failure achilles

and hera

[rustic vale]

Uh

Neither of those are failures

[latent moon]

You're just bad at those

[stone rune]

no

hera was fun

i enjoyed it

achilles was a waste

boring

annoying

[latent moon]

You're just bad at Achilles

[stone rune]

too annoying

i dont wanna get good at it

[latent moon]

Fair

[rustic vale]

It’s really hard to be bad at +150% to hitting the cast button

[stone rune]

it's not fun

but hera i got epic crush shot

that was awesome

[latent moon]

Isn't the difference in the rarities like 10 damage lmao

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007734863186624562/1064024584891932793/output.png

[stone rune]

yeah

who cares

it was lvl 7 though

[rustic vale]

Yeah

[stone rune]

i like purple

[rustic vale]

me too

More obols

[stone rune]

do i put 15 into lucifer

[rustic vale]

Eh

Make sure you want to first

[stone rune]

well

i don't want to put it into anything

i want to sit on my blood pile like a dragon

but i cant get titan blood only from bow and rail

oh wait

lucifer is rail

god why does the spear have to exist

and the fists

i mean like

so

what's left that people like

zeus beowulf rama eris?

[rustic vale]

Those are all good

[stone rune]

cause so far

i've maxed

arthur, achilles🤮, zagshield, chiron, hera, and xestija

[stone rune]

are there any others that people will recommend

[rustic vale]

nem gud
Guan-yu gud
Zag bow gud
Demeter gud if you want 1 fists aspect to get bounties with
Not in any particular order

[stone rune]

people don't like talos right

i did a few early clears with it and was rather fond

[latent moon]

Talos isn't great yeah

[stone rune]

how is zagrail

[latent moon]

Good

You can build it as bad eris or if you get spread fire you can build it as a melee weapon

[stone rune]

i heard a while back that all the rail aspects are good

[latent moon]

They are

Lowest owo time

All 4 are good for speedrunning anyways

Bow has all good aspects as well playwise, but Chiron isn't good for speedrunning

[stone rune]

i wish i could move fists and spear bounties onto rail and just do 60 rail bounties

[stone rune]

yeah my chiron runs are slower but that also might just be me being bad

[latent moon]

Nah Chiron is just slow

[stone rune]

HEY

[latent moon]

You're just bad

[stone rune]

it's annoying in styx though

half your arrows disappear

yeah

i put it on with chiron

demeter seems like it thirsts for blood

[latent moon]

Do sea storm chiron lol

[stone rune]

should i do 40 heat

[tall trench]

When I turn down a god trying to naturally enter my pool, it seems much more likely than not to continue to see that same god trying to get in throughout the run. That's gotta be a seed/rng quirk right?

[brisk trail]

some guy before was right, convenience fee doesnt affect the titan blood/diamond in styx

[thorny mirage]

That or confirmation bias

[whole tartan]

Damn I feel like I’m actually never going to play any other bow aspect other than Chiron it’s so good

[tall trench]

Well yeah could be, hence the question

[tall trench]

I have so much the exact opposite feel on this it's crazy

Bow is like 3 fire aspects and then chiron is there too

[oak oriole]

ngl
just cuz i can rage rly bad if i struggle
ima turn on god and get that percent up to like 50
just in case i get super mad i will turn it on and cheese hard

[whole tartan]

Yea I’ll probably give them another try after Im tired of all the ridiculousness you can pull off with Chiron

[tall trench]

I mean some people like chiron just like my gut reaction if you don't have a ton of clears is that if you're drawn to chiron you haven't yet realized how good the other aspects can shred

[solar vault]

I just personally don't feel chiron

like I'd rather just play zag bow and not worry about the special

[swift inlet]

Correct opinion

Zagbow is super fun anyway

[latent moon]

Zag bow is based

[tall trench]

zagbow with twinshot

I hate seeing flurry shot because it doesn't feel fun but also seems like throwing away too much extra damage to not take

[thorny mirage]

not really

it’s simpler but like

it’s your choice play for fun

For all that we optimize and talk about optimal boons hammers and pathing

[latent moon]

Iirc flurry is the same dps? Idk where I heard that but I did hear it from somewhere

[tall trench]

it feels untrue since you can put so many shots out and the only thing you lose is PowerShot which isn't even something you're gonna be going for in every situation

but it's not like I have numbers or whatever

makes dash strike builds feel awkward

Hey, I just wondered. There are some upgrades I never take because I think they actually make me weaker (in combination with my playstyle).

For example: The bow upgrade that gives you two shots but has a shorter range. I know it can be powerful, but it just doesn't fit my playstyle. I tried it a few times and I always felt it like it ruined my run.

i can't fathom this

[solar vault]

whaaaat

[tall trench]

maybe on chiron
and I'm mostly saying that because I barely ever play chiron

[bronze forge]

low heat or no heat, you can literally do anything you want

Depends on whose comment that is

[tall trench]

just a rando, so likely low/no heat

was trying to find anyone who had numbers on flurry shot

honestly even just preferring sniper shot to the close-range shot one is weird to me

the sniper shot extra damage space is so tiny

[bronze forge]

It’s hard to notice how bad it is when you’re new

I was like that

[tall trench]

oh for sure, it sounds good

[bronze forge]

You honestly just don’t know any better

[tall trench]

"I mean it's a ranged weapon"

[bronze forge]

Lol yeah exactly

[tall trench]

I'm glad the game visually shows where the sweet spot is

That was when I realized it's like never gonna be worth it if there's anything else on the table

and tbf there's a lot that you have to sorta play through the fine print on in-game to form an opinion on

[solar vault]

to this day I'm not quite sure what parting shot does

[tall trench]

lol

same

I think it applies all backstab damages to your cast if you hit from behind

so shadow presence + the 25% explicit bonus (+ any chaos stuff or keepsakes)

but everyone seems to have a diff interpretation

[rustic vale]

@solar vault Parting shot makes any backstab damage bonus you do have apply to casts, and gives specifically and only casts an extra +35% additive backstab damage boost

There is no other “interpretation”

That is how it works

[solar vault]

oh good to know

[rustic vale]

but

it only works under the same condition

has to hit them in the back

[tall trench]

That's what makes sense to me. There was a debate the other day about whether shadow presence factored in but I have no idea why it wouldn't

the most important thing about parting shot for most setups is that it sells for a lot of obols

though I don't accidentally get it as much now that I'm not constantly chasing divine dash

[gloomy trail]

Are the champions reward worth keeping

I don't see how to use them

[tall trench]

You mean ambrosia?

[toxic trellis]

Yes
When you get past a certain point with character relationships, you’ll need ambrosia to advance/max out your bond

[tall trench]

10% chance to offer replacement instead of missing core boon
reroll athena once
reroll athena twice
athena pls

I don't want divine strike
I super promise

Athena why did you do this to me
this purging pool is pain but I have no more rerolls

I'm actually gonna have to purge deadly reversal

[gloomy trail]

Ilike the locked hearts?

[tall trench]

yes

unlock heart -> feed ambrosia

if I purge divine dash now I mean
what are the odds that there won't be even one athena in the styx

there's no athena in the styx 🤡

[gloomy trail]

But i can't feed ambrosia

It doesn't show up

Do i need to max hearts on everyone

[tall trench]

just hold on to the ambrosia until you get the chance to give it

there's no other pressing use for it

[solar vault]

it's okay to exchange some for titan's blood but keep some of it

[gloomy trail]

I only have 4-5 of those

I only beat game 2 times so far

[stone rune]

i'd recommend #h1-for-new-players if you don't wanna get spoiled

[latent moon]

twin on chiron and hera "hurt" because you lose range, and the atk isn't your main focus of damage
twin on zag and rama are great because they're all about atk damage basically

[latent moon]

sniper shot is never gonna proc, and even if it does you're probably only hitting 1 enemy in it lmao it's so bad

[stone rune]

twin bad on hera??

[latent moon]

i mean yes and no tbh

like it's good atk damage

but losing range at the same time is also eh

[stone rune]

i guess like

[latent moon]

i'd assume so anyways

[tall trench]

Twin is definitely better on zag and rama but I take it on hera still I mean yeah in theory it can hurt but the attack is still a win for me

[latent moon]

like there's nothing wrong with taking twin on hera tbh

it's just that if you've been playing it at a far range, it's not gonna work anymore

i guess like you mostly want to play hera midrange anyways

so it doesnt exactly matter

[tall trench]

Yeah I mean it's not like the range loss is nothing

[latent moon]

but hitting max distance on twin is slower than half distance without twin

[tall trench]

Just feels like outside of niche situations the extra attack still compensates. But if I see first hammer is twin I switch from hera to zag

[latent moon]

twin on chiron also is like

not bad but also not great lmao

[stone rune]

i hate twin on chiron

just makes it worse

[tall trench]

chiron is kinda same boat I guess? Like extra damage sure but if you're just trying to tag to put special on

[latent moon]

yeah

[tall trench]

it in theory can get in the way

[latent moon]

not the worst thing

but also there are better things lmao

[stone rune]

alr im about to try my scuffed 40 heat and see why you're all right and i'm wrong

[tall trench]

yeah for chiron especially lol

[stone rune]

nope did it wrong

did it wrong again

there we go

[latent moon]

wait what was the pact lmao

the image you sent in #h1-high-heat-strategies doesnt work

[stone rune]

wdym

[latent moon]

i can't see it

[tall trench]

can't see it

[stone rune]

oh

yeah

hold on

ur not gonna like it

but there

[native blade]

Is Dire Misfortune useful?

[tall trench]

Like it's extra damage sure, but if you're dealing with multiple enemies it would still be a lot better to just setup doom on each of them. If you're dealing rapid doom damage I would think chasing ME would be the end-goal which kinda makes dire misfortune less useful

The extra damage just isn't a lot compared to most base applications of doom itself

[latent moon]

you never really aim for it

you take it as a cope pick after a reroll

the only time it's actually "good" is on luci atk and chiron special lmao

but like, doom on both of those just suck

since like, ideally you get ME so the doom stacks aren't gonna be useful if you proc it immediately

could make a small case for fists because there's downtime between dashes, but it's whatever you'd rather get impending doom or ME from an ares boon anyways

[native blade]

There’s nothing like picking up the owl for Divine Dash and then not getting it.

[latent moon]

are you doing ME lmao

[native blade]

Nah, just don’t have a dash and was hoping for good pull.

[latent moon]

Oh lmao

[native blade]

Which is better for Hades, Spearpoint or Acorn?

[native blade]

Seriously, is no one up?

[lunar condor]

I think Acorn. It’s guaranteed to block 5 hits.

If you leveled it up to max

[sour fog]

Hades has fairly low attack speed, you don't get constant hits, which makes spearpoint a lot worse

[native blade]

Ai, thx.

[lunar condor]

I just beat 3rd phase Hades for the first time. Oh yeahhh

Had my heart rate going up while my health bar goes down

[raw herald]

Spearpoint is good for em4

If you have a large health pool

[lunar condor]

I’ll keep that in mind

Also, the soundtrack for the 3rd phase is awesome

It’s like ambrosia to my ears

[muted elbow]

my exagryph doesnt increase the ammo when I upgrade it. Any idea how to fix it?

[raw herald]

Have you selected the aspect of zagreus from the aspect menu? You could have a different aspect selected

[muted elbow]

Yeah my bad. I thought every upgrade is used.

[tired karma]

https://youtu.be/RysqXyj-tk4

Lmao

[native blade]

Ye, we saw this.

Absolute pain.

[errant trout]

What exactly happens when I don't make the Tight Deadline? Do you just die? I'm pretty slow and so far I didn't wanna risk it but if it's nothing too bad, I might try to go for a higher TD.

[native blade]

You continuously lose hp till u die.

[rustic vale]

Lose 5 hp per second

[errant trout]

ooofff, okay

well, I guess I gotta learn to be faster, then

[rustic vale]

You can iframe out of the damage through dashing though

[errant trout]

alright, thanks guys :)

[native blade]

Np.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/755677197670285312/1064151102393692180/image.png?width=1246&height=701

[high island]

@native blade you're gonna get bonked for bypassing the filter with a gif.

[native blade]

…

That’s a banned word too?

[high island]

Well.

2. Keep it clean. Some of our games are suitable for younger players. Please keep your language safe-for-work accordingly.

[native blade]

Ah.

Do I… have to delete this? Or can I just not do it again?

[high island]

Mods probably gonna delete it if you don't, if they see it.

[rustic vale]

Just delete it

why even ask if you have to

[high island]

And then your soul will be sent to Tartarus.

[rustic vale]

It’s literally like 2 clicks or taps

[high island]

As a Numbskull.

[rustic vale]

and then no one has to see that

[high island]

An unarmored Numbskull.

[rustic vale]

Cp-6 numbskull

[high island]

And you don't even get to die by Zagreus's hand...

[rustic vale]

To a trap

[high island]

Yes.

[rustic vale]

to

Asphodel magma as a numskull

[high island]

And then your soul will be sent to Tartarus.

[rustic vale]

Some dripped down

onto the numskull’s head

[high island]

That would explain their behavior.

[wanton spire]

it's better to max nemesis or unlock another weapons aspect?https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1045985210740781107/1064159422844239872/Hades_32.png

[high island]

If you want to do more runs with Nemesis anyway, might as well max it now.

If you want a change of pace, unlock something else.

My aspect leveling guide is pinned in #h1-for-new-players if you want to get a sense of what you can expect at different aspect levels.

[sour fog]

you get coins when you equip it, as a one time bonus

so at the start of a run/biome

depending on when you equip it

[vital spade]

Haydeez 🥜

[cyan jolt]

Damn one of my friends started playing Hades with hell mode

Now they regret it

[woeful finch]

When I started my first save file, I eventually regretted NOT playing hell mode

Because I feel you reach a point where your ability at the game rapidly outpaces the challenge of the early heats. It takes a bit to clear for the first time in hell mode but it's a good way to train yourself if you really plan on climbing heats

if you just want the story then don't worry about it ofc

[native blade]

I feel like there’s really only two true ways to play Hades.

God Mode

or

Hell Mode

[cyan jolt]

It kinda just sucks that you need to take Calisthenics Program

[woeful finch]

yeah but better to get used to it sooner than later 😄

[cyan jolt]

You're not really gonna take it untill you get to the 45+ range

[high island]

There's a mod on PC to toggle it off.

If your friend doesn't want to start a new save.

[wispy hound]

I officially hate EM4 hades

It's like they took the few bad things the base fight had and amped it up to 11

[cyan jolt]

Accurate description

[wispy hound]

I do like the double spin and spear throw though

Neat

[high island]

EM4 wasn't added until release. The other enemies and boss fights were all refined and polished during early access with a lot of user feedback.

EM4 didn't really go through that.

[wispy hound]

I reckon it is too late for feedback

[high island]

They still patched the game for a couple months after release, but it was a much shorter period to give feedback on the fight.

[wispy hound]

That is why I am excited to hop on hades 2 during early access

[high island]

Especially a fight with such a difficulty spike, so we couldn't really figure out tactics all that quickly to give good feedback.

[wispy hound]

So, it is a general thought that EM4 hades is kinda silly?

I dont know who thought having him summon minibosses was a good idea, but I am no game designer so who am I to say

[high island]

Idk about others, but I think the fight has a lot of balance problems, yeah.

[wispy hound]

What would those be? I wanna see if I have genuine criticism or If I just have a skill issue

[cyan jolt]

It can get a lot harder depending on the mini bosses he summons

[wispy hound]

I got his first phase to a quarter of his health with two death defiances, lost both of them because he chose to summon the butterfly ball and dussa head

[gray apex]

Yea not all minibosses in the pool are equal or even close to equal, crushers are so weak they barely even exist meanwhile something like Sneak or bballs will disrupt you so hard

The fight scales exponentially with heat and it's incredibly difficult on melee weapons

[toxic trellis]

EM4 + JS

[wispy hound]

I play exclusively with EM4 on so I have it relatively easy

[native blade]

Respect, it took me awhile to do em4 perma

[cyan jolt]

I beat it once and never picked it again after

The dialogue was kinda underwhelming ngl

Also

[wispy hound]

I beat it twice and lost about 3 times

Gotta pick up the pace

[cyan jolt]

Do asterius and theseus get extra attacks if you switch back to their normal version after doing em3

[cyan jolt]

Because I don't remember seeing the attacks where they go to eachother

And either throw themself or where they create a wave

[sour fog]

They do get one attack, they get it after ||you exhaust their dialogues where they have their "break up" and then they make up again||

the throw they have from start but the wave is the new attack

[steady dove]

Do I get anything from holding winstreaks or it's just for bragging

[gray apex]

You can get a title at 10

And that's it I think

[steady dove]

How do I get it, I got 18 and. Nothing changed

[gray apex]

You get it on the 10th victory screen, so you already got it, and missed it apparently

[steady dove]

Any idea where dose it show

[gray apex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/1064203574365659266/chrome_zATOftJM13.png

This

[steady dove]

I got bored of stomping the game whit hestia and farmed 45 blood so I think I'd play some new weapon

[gray apex]

You can try upping the heat

[steady dove]

Idk, maybe it shows up if I check my run history, anyway can I equip it or have it to show somewhere

[gray apex]

Yea it shows in run history

It's just visual

Doesnt do anything

[steady dove]

I got to 16 heat but I got bored and I want to try some other weapons

[sour fog]

the victory messages are only visible on the victory screen and in the admin chamber, you can't use it in any way it's like a mini achiev

[steady dove]

Trying to get all archivements

Alright, thanks for the info

[strong ridge]

why did they make thunder dash so good

[native blade]

Because it'd look bad if his brothers had better dashes than him.

[woeful finch]

I’m like 60 runs in on my new save and I’ve only had Charon fight available once. Is there something I have to do to make it more likely

[strong ridge]

always hit midshop

thats about it

[strong ridge]

ah but you see it was not a truth i had told earlier

[native blade]

Oh?

Man, skully just trivialises Erebus.

[woeful finch]

I guess I been avoiding the shops 😅

[native blade]

Just rolled Meg, didn't even have time to charge my Greater Call.

[errant trout]

Okay... I have like >150 runs by now, in more than 200h of playing this game and there is still a fish I have apparently never caught 😂 is there something special I need to do for that? Or am I just that unlucky?

[sour fog]

probably in chaos

[errant trout]

ohhh, that's a good point. I keep avoiding Chaos

[sour fog]

chaos fish are super hard to get, it takes huge luck to get them all

The luck is to actually get a fishing point in chaos

that is very lucky

[cyan jolt]

Getting perfect catches on switch is so easy lol

[errant trout]

are they though? What's so great about Chaos boons? People keep telling me that but I just don't see the appeal

[cyan jolt]

I just cover the bobber with my thumb and wait for the flash

And they're basically required for cast builds

Huh

[void vigil]

chaos my beloved, so helpful for farming darkness

when theyre being nice

[cyan jolt]

Imagine doing a hera run without chaos

[errant trout]

ah, no, just checked the wiki, the fish I'm missing is a sturgeon

[cyan jolt]

Yeah

I got surface fish spot like 4 times in a row

[void vigil]

i get surface fish more often than chaos fish for sure

[sour fog]

same

[void vigil]

its just a matter of perfect catching and hoping for a legendary

[rustic vale]

It’s a matter of a 50:50

[native blade]

Hey, do u need to unlock all weapons to get hidden aspects?

[rustic vale]

You need to unlock all weapons to get aspects

[sour fog]

what sucks is that you can get fish ||in the garden area but can't go back there after credits||

[rustic vale]

In generally

[rustic vale]

Iirc it doesn’t actually change your odds

[sour fog]

do they increase after?

[rustic vale]

I might be remembering wrong though

Nvrmind I think I am remembering wrong

[cyan jolt]

I wish there was a way to return to the garden area

[whole tartan]

Do all other call auto fill boons stack with Zeus/aphro duo?

[sour fog]

that is kind of my only legit criticism of the game, such a great area but then it's just perma gone from the game for no good reason, feels like a waste

[rustic vale]

Yes

[cyan jolt]

Same for the garden area in the house

[rustic vale]

Getting hidden aspects requires you to get guan-yu first, which requires 5 non-zagreus aspects unlocked then rng dialogue from achilles, then the rest in any order under a different set of requirements

[whole tartan]

Wondering is the Hermes boon stacked with it

[rustic vale]

The hermes boon is too slow to matter

And not really a good choice regardless

[rustic vale]

The only time it’s quickening your call by a noticable amount when you have smouldering air is if it’s heroic

[native blade]

I am extremely pissed off.

Why can Hades just become invincible in the midle of my call? It wasn't even first phase this was second phase and he just shrugged off my greater call.

[sour fog]

during second phase he gets impervious on 50% HP

[mint coral]

Darkness moment

[native blade]

What ass butter butter ass mechanic is that?

I might die now.

And it's because Hades is freaking cheat.

I see the hypocrisy but I'm still angry.

[mint coral]

Always wait for the darkness before greater calls

Or to meg if you arent doing it at the start

[gray apex]

Well in phase 2 he cant darkness

[native blade]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-angry-punho-fechado-de-gif-26104429

I died.

[gray apex]

Nice

[mint coral]

Welcome to the house of hades!

[native blade]

Bro it wasn't even Darkness, bro literally just crystallised right in front of me.

[gray apex]

Just learn where the phases are

It's the same everytime

[brisk trail]

Help is a heroic deadly strike worth getting to replace lvl 3 frost strike

[native blade]

Yep.

[mint coral]

Whats the weapon

[brisk trail]

Gauntlets of talos

[high island]

Exchanges are almost never worth it.

[native blade]

It just never hit me harder than just then.

[rustic vale]

This is why we spam small calls
Also yes 2nd phase has a breakpoint at 50%

[native blade]

…no

[rustic vale]

?

[native blade]

Greater Call only.

[brisk trail]

Kek I just melted hades

[rustic vale]

Small call >>>>> large call

[latent moon]

Except Artemis and Aphrodite

[brisk trail]

I had lvl 3 heroic deadly strike + Demeter no casts 10% damage increase + Demeter special lvl 2 and artemis dash strike

[rustic vale]

Lvl3 heroic deadly strike is probably less +% (or at least a similiar amount to) then common lvl1 deadly strike + a common chaos strike boon

Gotta love deadly strike’s pitiful additive percentage

[brisk trail]

Oh and i also had chaos 46% attack increase and 54% dash strike

[native blade]

The switch was worth?

[rustic vale]

That explains a lot more

[brisk trail]

Nah

[native blade]

F

[rustic vale]

Probably not tbh

Wait bruh this was talos

[native blade]

Yuh

[rustic vale]

Did you have heavy knuckle or concentrated knuckle?

This sounds kind rough tbh

[rustic vale]

Given all your other additive, ravenous will probably wasn’t notable

Especially since it’s non-fds fists

[native blade]

Cap.

U can with small call? Is it the charm duration or sumn?

Doesn’t charm prevent dmg till you break it?

[rustic vale]

no it doesn’t?

[cyan jolt]

What's the mod that toggles hell mode called

[native blade]

So you can dmg charmed enemies while theyre charmed?

[rustic vale]

Yes

[native blade]

Okay, that’s good news.

[cyan jolt]

What's it called?

[native blade]

Well yeah, but I use it mainly for damlage.

It is for me.

[high island]

Just Hell Mode toggle, I think. It's included in the speedrun modpack. Can just ask for the individual mod in the Hades Modding discord.

Or install speedrun modpack, toggle hell mode off, uninstall mod.

[rustic vale]

Aphro call isn’t worth it for damage compared to zeus and dionysus

[native blade]

Eh, I can one shot a phase with Aphro, can’t do it with those two.

[raw herald]

You need full charge for that

Zeus and dio both scale amazingly with poms

[rustic vale]

Only at full call

[raw herald]

And if you get RD, it ends up one shotting phases

[rustic vale]

Zeus and dio are significantly better at small call and end up being more dps

[native blade]

Well fair, but I'm a big call person.

[rustic vale]

Also you don’t end up charging up to full call only to waste a bunch of damage on a break point

[native blade]

Hold up.

[rustic vale]

Plus you can deal the damage sooner which is better

[native blade]

My friend said Artemis is trash.

True or False?

[rustic vale]

depends on the aspect

Some just can’t utilise artemis well

Others can

[native blade]

He said in general.

[rustic vale]

It all comes down to aspect tbh

Making a general statement like that is

Imo

[native blade]

I was genuinely confused.

[rustic vale]

does he have any evidence/points to back that statement up with

[native blade]

Bro he’s saying that pretty much every god can do what Artemis can but with status effects.

[rustic vale]

That hurts my brain

Zeus, dionysus, and ares all do what artemis does but with status effects? 🤨

[native blade]

Same.

[rustic vale]

Also artemis has a status effect

[native blade]

Ye.

[rustic vale]

Hunters mark

[native blade]

THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT I'M SAYING

[rustic vale]

Poseidon, artemis, athena, and zeus all don’t have baked in status effects

And also

Not having a status curse baked in doesn’t make a god bad

[native blade]

Wait, he plays controller.

[rustic vale]

The only real downside to her is her immense amount of t2 boons that are not noticable and really just get in the way of your poms

[rustic vale]

That doesn’t mean anything

I play controller

🧠

What he plays on doesn’t change things in terms of god’s boon strength

He hasn’t got legs to stand on here

Every god has their own niche and flatout calling any god trash is just

[latent moon]

Sure but full call is basically another meg lmao

[rustic vale]

Sure but you have to charge to full call

[latent moon]

It's not that hard

[rustic vale]

It’s too long
Zeus and dio already outperformed

[latent moon]

I mean yeah

But that wasn't the point

The point was that aphro and arty call work better at full call, and Tree said aphro is better with small call

[rustic vale]

Aphro call isn’t better as small call

It just changes

from offensive to defensive

[rustic vale]

Because I don’t think you can compare the two*

[high island]

I don't tend to pom Aphrodite's Aid unless it's already high rarity.

Low rarity, just keep it Lv.1 and use Greater Call in boss fights. Lesser Call in normal encounters.

High rarity, add some poms and you can use the Lesser Calls on bosses very effectively.

[rustic vale]

Lesser call with no rarity and poms decent enough just to prevent an attack from hades

[high island]

Sure, but that just means it takes longer to charge Greater Call for the damage.

[rustic vale]

It also means you live longer

maybe this is just me having a skissue at 40 heat

[high island]

Saving for Greater Call will do more for that.

Dead dad can't dead you.

[rustic vale]

Fair enough

[silver mica]

Does the shattered shackle lose its power when you apply chaos boons?

[rustic vale]

No

[old dawn]

nah

[silver mica]

Thank youu

[rustic vale]

Only if you have a core boon for that specific input

[old dawn]

only cores remove shackle's buffs

[rustic vale]

Like

Having deadly strike will remove the shackle buff but only for strike

et cetera

[old dawn]

basically means fill dash and call always

[rustic vale]

ah the good ole days when I did shackle runs

[high island]

Mind you, if you have enough experience, you can add in some Lesser Calls here and there if you can still get the same amount of Greater Calls in the fight.

[silver mica]

Lmao I'm using the bow and I'm in tartarus so I might as well keep the damage for now

[wispy hound]

Support fire is one of the best artemis boons, it's not even a discussion

[rustic vale]

I wonder if I still have my “every aspect cleared with shackle keepsake” checklist somewhere

[high island]

But that requires good instincts for how the fight is going to go and how much your god gauge will charge.

[cyan jolt]

What's even the point of Artemis's lesser call

It fires only one arrow, right?

[rustic vale]

Iframes

[rustic vale]

It isn’t

[silver mica]

Support fire with the gun or fists

Wow

[rustic vale]

Not even a discussion

[wispy hound]

I never used Artemis lesser call

Her greater call though

[high island]

Just some minor extra damage in normal encounters. Can get Hunter's Mark going.

[wispy hound]

Jesus christ

[high island]

And yeah, i-frames.

[rustic vale]

I-frames and finishing off regular encounters

[wispy hound]

Her greater call can effortlessly delete a quarter of hades healthbar

[mental vale]

support fire on arthur 🔥🔥🔥

[high island]

Artemis' Aid Greater Call requires poms to be any good.

Terrible Lv.1 Call.

[silver mica]

Idk what was going through my head

[wispy hound]

More if you have some damage boosts

[rustic vale]

Tbh support fire is kinda

[cyan jolt]

Does support fire trigger for every arrow when using Chiron

[rustic vale]

Nope

[mental vale]

yeah whats the cooldown

[wispy hound]

I use it with varatha, one of the slowest weapons and its still very strong

[rustic vale]

Support fire has an internal cooldown like zeus boons

[cyan jolt]

Laaaame

[rustic vale]

I think it’s .15 just like lightning strike

[raw herald]

0.16s

.166*

[mental vale]

i mean if there wasnt a cooldown it would be unbelievably cracked on rail

[cyan jolt]

Does sea storm remove the cooldown

[mental vale]

naw

[raw herald]

No

[rustic vale]

Tbh not really

It’s probably best case to have on rail though

[high island]

Needing several poms to do that isn't quite effortless.

[raw herald]

It’s just lightning strike with no chain effect or jolted application

[silver mica]

Rail + flurry fire + swift strike

[high island]

There's an opportunity cost there.

[silver mica]

• support fire

[wispy hound]

Usually I don't even bother to level it up and it's still very effective

[mental vale]

wdym it like doubles base damage

if it were to in fact have no cooldown

[rustic vale]

That means you aren’t picking up the better rail hammers and also that you took swift strike over other options

[wispy hound]

And if I do level it up, level 2 is just fine for me

[silver mica]

Thoughts on shackle with Arthur?

[mental vale]

i think i did that build once it was funny

[mental vale]

decent

[rustic vale]

Where is your lightning strike if it’s doubling base damage

[silver mica]

I did heroic artemis attack on Arthur once

With a bunch or crit boosting boons

My highest damage was like 2076

That was pretty fun

[mental vale]

add shadow slash

it goes so hard

[rustic vale]

Shackle is fine enough

[high island]

If you're not going to pom it, there are way stronger calls to pick.

[silver mica]

I had double edge and super nova at the time

[rustic vale]

But running shackle is effectively ap1ing yourself

[rustic vale]

Double edge

[silver mica]

OK I'm out of tartarus now

[high island]

It just really isn't very effective at Lv.1 compared to alternatives.

[raw herald]

Shackle slander? Unheard of from shackle himself

[silver mica]

Bow with zagspect

Heartbreak strike

Not sure where to go from here

[rustic vale]

Slandering myself is something I do on an hourly basis

[silver mica]

Maybe artemis keepsake?

[raw herald]

Or Zeus

[mental vale]

guys no i swear shackle 32 heat is so fun i love it when i dont get to pick boons the gameplay is unbelievable

[rustic vale]

Artemis keepsake for her dash and/or a different core for heart rend
Or zeus for smair

[silver mica]

Oh I have explosive shot too

Should I go for deadly strike

[raw herald]

Yes

[high island]

You'll want Hunter Dash and Zeus' Aid if you have Heartbreak Strike on bow. If one is already in your pool, take the other one's keepsake into Asphodel.

Why would you "go for" Deadly Strike if you already have Heartbreak Strike?

[silver mica]

I don't think I've ever properly used hunter dash tbh

[rustic vale]

Hunter dash easily top 3 dashes

[silver mica]

Heartbreaker flourish** that was my bad sorry

[raw herald]

Ah that’s fine then

[high island]

Well, Zag Bow is like 99.9% Dash-Strikes.

[silver mica]

Uhh also I got slicing shot so I might try get hunting blades?

[rustic vale]

No

[raw herald]

For speedruns yeah

And tart

[rustic vale]

Zagbow isn’t a castpect, at most hunting blades is free obols and slicing shot is losing your boiling blood

[silver mica]

Alright cheers

[high island]

Just to be clear: you have no Attack boon yet?

Do you have a Dash boon?

[silver mica]

No attack boon and no dash boon yet

[high island]

Go for Hunter Dash and also look for Deadly Strike or Heartbeak Strike, whichever you see first.

Deadly Strike + Passion Dash also good.

[silver mica]

Barge of death for my artemis boon yay

[raw herald]

I love the barge

[silver mica]

Glad it's not that crappy spreader room

[high island]

It's a fun fight tbh.

Just sadly too slow for speed.

[rustic vale]

Barge is funny until you don’t have the damage for the single shield rock that I don’t remember the name of

[silver mica]

Okay I got my artemis choices

[rustic vale]

Or everything is in your way between you and it

[silver mica]

Epic hunter dash or epic deadly strike

[rustic vale]

Hunter dash imo

[silver mica]

Okay I'll go dash and then try get a chaos dash as well

[high island]

Either one tbh.

[rustic vale]

Either or

[high island]

If you don't have an Attack before Elysium, you could grab Shackle.

[rustic vale]

I just would rather hunter dash and aphro strike that then deadly strike and aphro dash

[silver mica]

Got eurydice

Imma upgrade rarity

[rustic vale]

Refreshing nectar

[silver mica]

I got heroic hunter dash lmfao

[rustic vale]

I mean atleast you won’t get dash exchanges now

[silver mica]

Got Poseidon

[high island]

That would have been good back when Hunter Dash rarity scaling wasn't nerfed yet.

[silver mica]

Oceans bounty it is ig

Other choices were tempest strike and WaterAid

[rustic vale]

What was it prenerf?

Yeah I’d take oceans bounty there

[silver mica]

But imma go for Zeus aid in elysium

EM Hydra gone :)

Bruh I still haven't won with chiron yet 😭

[rustic vale]

Neat?

[silver mica]

Yess I got twin shot

Actually wait

[high island]

+50% at base and each rarity added +25%.

[silver mica]

Twin shot or point blank

[high island]

So epic was +100%.

[silver mica]

I've already got explosive

[high island]

Heroic was +125%.

[high island]

So?

Twin Shot literally doubles your Attack damage.

[silver mica]

True-

My math skills are shambles ig lmfao

Ugh time to fight bull

EM Asterius

[cyan jolt]

Can you get twin shot and triple shot together

[rustic vale]

[rustic vale]

nope

incompatible

[cyan jolt]

Why must they ruin the fun

[silver mica]

Okay

Hunters mark

Deadly strike

Or support fire

All rare

Thinking hunters Mark is better

Yeah I'll take it

[proud lodge]

"there's nothing wrong with getting some help"
Gods, I love the Script and how they Characterised Zagreus... he's so wholesome

[raw herald]

Zagbow

[rustic vale]

hunters mark

[raw herald]

Over deadly strike?

[silver mica]

Cleared through EM3 theseus

Gomma update when I finish the run

Aight I did it

[silver mica]

Bought it at Styx

Epic rarity

Also ended up with epic rarity support fire which wasn't amazingly useful; I planned on selling it for obols but I found the sack faster than I thought I would

[tall trench]

when meg attacks the pots

I'll keep that in mind, I have been doing her in p2 but there's not like, a compelling reason for that ig

Dad brought up the pots as I did and well
she killed those

lost with maybe a hit left

getting 4 sacked and losing my buffs probably hurt more, just wish you could aim the companions (or maybe I just don't understand how to yet)

it feels like I'm missing a wacky sound effect when I'm in between asterius and theseus and shady lands on my head

this is what I was trying to do, but I did it on second bubble in phase 2 which I think he can bring pots up out of

I don't think I've seen him do it in first bubble, so that was my mistake

that makes sense, didn't really think of that, then I'd just have to learn the timing so I don't do it too early

Yeah well especially second bubble

with first I don't wanna get hit by the shockwave obv

I wish I understood what affected RNG for the first boon reroll more
it's just such a gamble if it doesn't offer the core you're after when you can't guarantee the god appearance again

I'm on console, feels bad

Like 50% of the time it's not an issue, and the other 50% it can be 30 minutes sometimes killing random shades and waiting random intervals of time to reroll into the right core

it seems like the reroll always has about 6-7 outcomes that are very easy to cycle in between but then it gets really hard to get anything other than those. Like, if I start a run and wait X number of seconds before getting the boon and rerolling, I will continuously cycle between those 6-7 sets of choices -- it's possible to get it to offer something different but I can't figure out how and about half the time trying just results in getting the final of the above set of choices.

[native blade]

Is it that bad?

Damn.

[tall trench]

I dunno I'm 28 minutes in and still haven't seen a flood flare yet

[native blade]

F

[tall trench]

It happens more than pure rng would indicate, like the starting boon is predisposed to certain outcomes, there's definitely more to it than one would think. If I smash pots and kill shades in a very particular way I can get something surprising, but more often then not I'll get the same exact reroll that would come at the end of the sets I'd get just by counting seconds

[rustic vale]

console isn't that bad

[tall trench]

normally I'd just yolo it but when I'm struggling to get consistent 40 heats down it just feels like too much to risk not getting a needed starting core from first god

[rustic vale]

waiting seconds shouldn't affect your reroll rng

[tall trench]

oh it 100% does

[rustic vale]

hmm

I wonder if reroll rng works off of a seperate method then anvils and eury then

[tall trench]

It's easier to see if you watch the timer and just take it after each second, but on TD you can just time in your head after you initiate the dialogue

This is only for the reroll though

the initial 3 offers will always be the same

[native blade]

Whew

[rustic vale]

tbh if I reroll and don't see what I want I just switch my god keepsake and use a different starting god for that run

since I'm avoiding using the meta anyways I have a bunch of starting gods as options

[tall trench]

I mean sometimes I do that yeah, but like I'd have to switch aspect in this case, since any god is still gonna not offer the cast, at least I think that's how it works

I'm not really consistent enough to be doing off-meta builds though as well, I'm still trying to get consistent clears with what I know works

[silver mica]

I remember when I used to not use god keepsakes to start out with

[rustic vale]

I have yet to get a 40 heat clear

since I immediately decided to put a challenge on it

take every erebus gate and don't use meta till 40 heat done with all aspects

[silver mica]

Shackle -> Spearpoint -> Bracer -> Tooth

[tall trench]

Meh, I am just switching to a different weapon then, 40 minutes without seeing a cast offer, I'd kill for a real restart button

[silver mica]

Was my go to

[native blade]

Whaddya do for Erebus?

[high island]

Practice.

[silver mica]

😭 I'm still struggling with 7

[tall trench]

Well I guess maybe it's more accurate to say I'd die for a real restart button lol, I just don't want a bunch of random tart deaths so that's a me problem I admit

[rustic vale]

my 20 heat runs for all aspects were more like
shackle -> shackle -> shackle -> shackle

[silver mica]

Shackle :)

[rustic vale]

[tall trench]

shackle runs or uninfluenced god pool runs in general can be really fun

[silver mica]

[tall trench]

its like less to worry about and you try new stuff

[rustic vale]

shackle runs were uh

yeah they were definitely fun

[silver mica]

I remember grinding the

Fated list

[rustic vale]

actively avoiding strike, special, and cast boons is like playing with ap1.5 on

[silver mica]

Took ages to fill the legendary and duo ones

[tall trench]

I did shackle on 0 heat granted, 16 on hestia but its hestia and shackle hestia is like
not bad at all

[silver mica]

Hestia is the reload one right?

[tall trench]

I have the duos but I still need those stupid blade rift boons is all

yea