So something else blocks it, likely enchantments
#pyre
velvet birch
small zinc
But if the scribes were able to create the mechanism of the rites (I thought they did?), why wouldn't someone else be able to alter it?
velvet birch
Pyre 2: Union Boogaloo
small zinc
spoiler for real regarding character endings ||that's the freed Barker ending||
timid silo
Even messenger imps can't fly all the way up!
Volfred says they get the closest, and from there there are other ways of picking up the messages
Or small parcels I guess
small zinc
👀 Oh, I missed that
why can't someone pick the imps then
timid silo
Maybe they're too heavy? Or living things really can't cross some kind of metaphysical border? I can't quite picture it, but we know that they tried and this is as much exchange as they can manage. Quite the traffic with the messenger imps apparently, given the amount of communication that we knows goes on throughout the game, but nothing more...
young folio
Just finished the game. What a banger. Anyone know ||how many different combinations of the "where are they now" text exist? Certainly not 20 or 21 factorial haha||
@velvet birch https://steamcommunity.com/app/462770/discussions/0/1471966894878783094/#c1471966894878887716
i found this answer from the steam forums again, not sure if its what you were looking for or not but its interesting nonetheless. that number
forest girder
The fact ||Manley is the only character that always ends badly, Maybe Dalbert if you are cynical|| warms my heart
lavish vine
Dalbert's story is beautiful 😢
heavy hill
manley's one of my favorite characters in a "I hate him with a burning passion and I love him for it" way, his endings are hilarious
a friend of mine ||freed Manley and intentionally got a violent revolution specifically so that he'd end up presumably dead||
small zinc
I've realized, is it a nomad thing that they have titles? Hedwin the Deserter, Lendel the Liar, Sandra the Unseeing... I didn't see it with anyone else IIRC
jagged pebble
i don't think so
also @heavy hill your friend pulled a chaotic evil just to kill that stupid tree
velvet birch
@velvet birch https://steamcommunity.com/app/462770/discussions/0/1471966894878783094/#c1471966894878887716
i found this answer from the steam forums again, not sure if its what you were looking for or not but its interesting nonetheless. that number
@young folio
Wow did not expect that to number. That's as authoritative an answer as I could get, though, thank you!
small zinc
nevermind, I've realized for example Jomuer had a title too yeah
jagged pebble
steam is being weird and not showing any of the text ):
small zinc
As for the count, I didn't realize the number of outcomes doesn't depend on characters influencing each other, only on the variables that influence the ending
like, the 2^20 (if there were 20 people to free/stay and no other variables)... it would be 2^20 possible outcomes no matter if character's endings influence each other or not
coral turret
Lendel always ends bad too right?
heavy hill
I don't recall all the endings, and I'm just going off of a steam thread
but this person claims that he becomes a librarian to get new insight on his exile or something
midnight hawk
it's been a minute since ive played but i think if he gets liberated and it's a peaceful revolution then lendel gets a good end
forest girder
He learns to read and gets a job as a clerk, organizing the people who got send to the Downside by the years
The text implying he is content with his lot on life
wild grail
Wasn’t one of the methods out of the Downside by ||just flying via wings? That should be the reason why the Messenger Imp can fly in and out, and why the Commonwealth clip the wings of Exiled Harps. And I assume Ti’zo didn’t want to leave the Downside because it was either his home, or because of Volfred or the Nightwings.||
||That, or being a Messenger Imp is another subspecies, or takes a good amount of training.||
||Manley couldn’t get out because either “by the will of the Scribes,” bad luck, or the inventions just weren’t good enough.||
Also, don’t tell me what the endings are, but ||does Oralech get different endings when freed based on if you beat him or not?||
mild falcon
||the messenger imp uses a sort of trick to fly out of the downside, i think||
||I don't think they specify what the trick is, but it's a well kept secret||
||also yes to your last question||
wild grail
Huh. Cool. Weird.
vestal bluff
The Messenger Imp doesn't get out of the downside, but Volfred mentions that imps can get closer to the edge than anyone else, so they can pass messages through it
forest girder
Honestly they should have cut the Messenger Imp thing
It just causes more questions than Answers
And opens lots of logical holes
I'm just being Nitpicky tho
midnight hawk
at times pyre is very "don't worry about the logistics, this fits the narrative"
like drive imps
also: saps, in general
mild falcon
It's a different kind of worldbuilding
forest girder
The problem I've got with that imp is that it breaks the ONE rule that it's suppoosed to be immutable
That once you are in you can forget escaping unless you win a ritual
mild falcon
Maybe that imp won a liberation rite
vestal bluff
People forget that Imps are a long-lived race
It straight up could be that the lad we know as the Messenger Imp won a Liberation Rite some centuries ago
forest girder
And That Imp's name? Ahti
small aspen
also tbf there are a bunch of things that you can't normally do irl but can bend the rules around a bit to cheese it
it isn't as if the barrier between the downside and commonwealth doesn't have any physicality
forest girder
Imp: I'm just the courier ma'am, I don't care 'bout "Rites" and "Triumvirates" I'm just here to help with the mail
That's actually a trope, tho
The 'Almighty Janitor'
I think it applies here
mild falcon
I mean if you wanna poke holes....
Wheres da wagon bathroom
Gotta ask that during the next q&a
spark moon
I think they should add more imps because I think they're neat
midnight hawk
imps are very good
small aspen
agree
midnight hawk
i love bothering the imps in the wagon
lavish ridge
i like ringing the dinner bell
midnight hawk
ringing the dinner bell is such a fun little thing in the game
one thing i liked about pyre is that yeah there are a lot of aspects of it that are a downer but it also has a lot more humor in it compared to the first two games
lavish ridge
i just love my wagon fambly...
i love how comforting and intimate pyre is
big fan of small bonding moments and pyre is chock full of them
midnight hawk
yeah! pyre had some really good character and relationship exploration in it
forest girder
Is there any Fanart of Rukey wearing Pam's hat?
midnight hawk
i havent seen any
forest girder
Shame :|
harsh briar
Love the little touches in Pyre. When I'm flying that thing you better believe I am honking the horn All. The. Way.
Anyone crashes into me it's on them
small zinc
Wait, you can honk a horn...?! Darn, I missed that.
harsh briar
Haha yeah right click while flying. Or hold the mouse button to hoooooooooooonk
muted pebble
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK
sage terrace
Honking is the best part 
grim tusk
I didn't know you could honk
But I did like clicking on the little lantern on the textboxes
heavy hill
honking, clicking the lantern, and ringing the bell over and over
the real triumvirate
forest girder
honking, clicking the lantern, and ringing the bell over and over
the real triumvirate
@heavy hill
My God, The Reader is a goose.
muted pebble
honk
umbral flame
on my way to ruin Manalee's day again.
wild grail
Say what triggers ||a violent revolution|| again?
mild falcon
depends on the plan's success % i think
vestal bluff
I believe it's 2 or fewer Nightwings freed
forest girder
Say what triggers ||a violent revolution|| again?
@wild grail
Peace was never an option 🦆
wild grail
o h
The most I remember was a 75% before ||the Commonwealth was burning.|| That or less.
And I DEFINITELY had more than 2 Nightwings liberated. I think it was...4, before ||the Reader at the end.||
Never faced The Chastity or The Pyrehearts. Lost to The Essence and...Withdrawn.
Jumpy. I hate fighting Umhilde.
Literally the first one after the Tempers to fight me and I Hated it I got stomped!!!
You should try to use Jodariel against Umhilde, right? I see her large aura and low quickness and underestimate those aspects, making me use the faster units.
little wyvern
I'm in a phase of my life right now where I go up to people I know and tell them to play Pyre
wild grail
Do we ever get any hints as to whatever happens to ||Brighton/Androbles?||
jagged pebble
good
midnight hawk
it's what he deserves tbh
wild grail
Pft
jagged pebble
brigton realizing that the peaceful revolt worked and he's going back to the downside
heavy hill
regarding the revolution requirements, from greg's steam post:
As with any good plan, Volfred's Plan has certain contingencies. But, he chooses to remain optimistic with the Nightwings (for the most part), and speaks of what he would consider to be 'Plan A'.
It turns out Plan A requires at least 6 of the Nightwings to be liberated. While ideally all of them would have been liberated, this many proves to be enough, given other factors.
Plan B occurs if fewer than 6 but greater than 2 Nightwings are liberated, or in the unlikely event that only Volfred himself is liberated.
Plan C occurs otherwise.
The Reader does not count toward these totals -- the Reader's own ability to return to the Commonwealth is not expected and so not accounted for as part of the Plan.
I believe ||the archjustice|| gets cast down only in a peaceful revolution - in the more violent scenarios, iirc it's implied he gets killed (certainly in the "plan c" scenario where ||the Highwing Remnants take matters into their own hands||)
forest girder
Wait if only Volfred is liberated you get a kinda good ending?
jagged pebble
imagine playing volfred to a point where he could actually be liberated
stray jolt
i've played this game 3 times fully and 3/3 times i could never get volfred enough enlightenment
just let me send the tree up
young folio
i liberated him on my first playthrough... i thought it would be really important to the plan so i did everything i could to make it happen
forest girder
Reminder that saying that you wouldn't be able to survive in the Downside is publicly admitting that Falcon Ron is stronger than you. 
timid silo
Omg I didn't know about the "just Volfred" clause for the middle ending. Amazing
When I didn't think I could love that tree more
timid silo
What did he DO this time 😂 he wasn't planning for it - his presence alone is enough that he counts for two and gives you the middle ending instead of the worst one!
torn bolt
listen volfred doesn't even have to do anything
he could say something totally innocuous like 'i enjoy soup' and i'd be like yeah i bet you do you expurgated unprintability
volfred: oh well, guess i just count for TWO nightwings!
me: 🔫 👀
midnight hawk
my gay grandpa has never done anything wrong, in his life,
timid silo
Correct, he doesn't need to do anything, his sole presence is radiant 😇 good thing he's also very busy making his society a better place, which makes me love him even more 💖
mild falcon
He tried to kick me out of the night wings without even knowing me
Cant trust a tree after he does that to you
cobalt elbow
honestly I was vary of Volfred the whole campaign. I was thinking his plan wasn't exactly all truthful and there is more to it or he has plans to outplay Nightwings. Yet that never really happened and I pretty much was wary of one party member for entire game almost for nothing I guess?
mild falcon
The twist is he's just a regular guy
I think he's written to not be exactly trustworthy
Like, that's a part of the writing
timid silo
There's a tweet about how Tariq's closeness to him was written to make you less suspicious... I take it that didn't work 😂
mild falcon
Tariq's even LESS trustable
timid silo
WHAT
mild falcon
He's just vibing, who KNOWS what he's up to, what his goals are
If anyone in the van was gonna plot twist betray you, it would be the guy who has no backstory and no motivations
timid silo
(now unironically) Tariq has never done anything wrong in 800+ years 😂
small aspen
Celeste disagrees
mild falcon
Well like... according to him he hasn't done anything wrong in 800 years
Celeste is the only one old enough to vouch for him, and she won't
timid silo
He's saying "hey what if we go against our programming just a lil bit maybe" and she (having spent said 800+ years stuck on a mountain instead of meeting cool people and seeing cool places) is not having any of it, until the endings
Well there's Sandra 🤣 I'd pay DLC money just for her opinion here
mild falcon
Oh yeah I would've done the same as tariq I think
timid silo
"we're supposed to disappear what if we. don't." doesn't sound like the height of depravity to me
Oh it's just occurred to me that she may be upset because the Rites had been interrupted for 5ish years
He could've tried to restart the triumvirate maybe but he was too busy napping
mild falcon
Well.... hmm
It's volfred's plan that delays the rites huh
Because he insists that hedwyn, Jodi, rukey get a reader
timid silo
Not quite -he says at first that he wanted the Blackwagon buried and the triumvirate disbanded
Grieving Oralech (and Erisa) too much to consider moving on
... self-evidently that didn't stick and he soon started plotting to find a suitable new leader
And eventually he found Hedwyn (aka Oralech.... two!, in Oralech's own opinion)
But his first response was no more, we're shutting down this whole operation
Of course Celeste (being stuck on the aforementioned mountain) knew exactly none of that. I guess she saw Tariq leave with one surviving Nightwing and expected them to be back with a full roster soon enough...
It's kind of Tariq's job to care for the Nightwings so if they failed to show up for years it is arguably kind of his fault 🤔
heavy hill
volfred kinda put me off the moment he went "lol thanks for finding me, you can leave now"
mild falcon
I got SO MAD
God, imagine if you could just walk out and then credits roll
"Sure that makes sense... have fun at the rites! Maybe I'll see you around sometime :)"
pure merlin
ye volfred was mad suspicious to me
ti'zo liked him and instantly (re)bonded with him tho so i was immediately comforted by that
ti'zo rly do be a moral compass
midnight hawk
i never really felt that way tbh and i think volfred is like, a) basically, hey there's no chance of you being liberated so why would you want to stick around?, and b) he doesn't know about your relationships with the other characters. we as the player have grown to love the other characters and really bond with them but volfred has no insight into that. so there's a lot of "volfred tried to take me away from my friends" but he has no idea you have friends
mild falcon
Kinda naive of him, then
He knows what rites are like, how they bring people together
midnight hawk
i wouldn't say that's necessarily true. like how close was volfred to brighton?
pure merlin
the old nightwings sounded pretty disfunctional by the end, tbf
and tbf volfred only joined them near the end
id say he didn't get that much time to properly bond with all of them
pure merlin
i know
forest girder
'Death'
mild falcon
Well that's what he thought at the time!
midnight hawk
it's been a hot minute since i played the game but does it talk about specifically the rites being a bonding experience?
mild falcon
They all showed up with their own baggage and clearly there was some pent up feelings involved, but they loved each other in some sense
The rites are at the same time a team sport and a shared trauma, that's gotta make bonds quick
pure merlin
yeah, pretty much
midnight hawk
im very doubtful about the other nightwings' relationship w brighton being like that. brighton clearly wanted to keep the status quo when the others did not
pure merlin
So it really IS weird how he never questions how close the reader must've gotten to the other nightwings, huh
maybe he just became... too engrossed in his goal/plan?
kinda forgot to you know, take a step back mebbe
mild falcon
I mean, volfred being a bit naive seems in character to me, idk
midnight hawk
it seems a bit "this is how my plan is going to work and everyone else will think the same way"
mild falcon
He's an idealist, it comes with the territory
I dont know how close volfred is to brighton, but Brighton feels VERY strongly about volfred
midnight hawk
yeah brighton is Not a fan
stray jolt
i’m skeptical of the idea that the rites have to be a bond building experience, you don’t need to be close to someone to work well with them
midnight hawk
that's true
stray jolt
also that there’s a common end goal that is inherently selfish (freedom for one’s self)
pure merlin
i’m skeptical of the idea that the rites have to be a bond building experience, you don’t need to be close to someone to work well with them
yep yep. case in point: most of the other triumvirates
midnight hawk
yeah sir gilman and sir deluge are good examples of that
pure merlin
mhm
god i wanna replay the game
but im super content with how it ended
a dilemma
midnight hawk
replay but stop right before the ending
pure merlin
👀
cobalt elbow
replay but stop midway through and then start over
mild falcon
Replay but stop after you beat lendel
And then start over
Just keep beating him up
pure merlin
galaxy brain
mild falcon
Ti'zo said the f word!!!!
cobalt elbow
replay but up until the point where you have to defend your wagon ones and then start replaying that section
pure merlin
best section tbh
mild falcon
In retrospect, that part was supposed to teach you that savages have delayed cast, right?
cobalt elbow
I think so?
heavy hill
I'm pretty sure it only exists as a tutorial for Xae, the same way that the little segment with Gilman vs Deluge exists as a tutorial for Gilman
stray jolt
wasn’t it a tutorial for power cast/power jump
forest girder
Tutorial? I've been using it to bully Imps all day long.
I've been doing it wrong?
Well, c'est la vie time to continue to orb imps on the face.
mild falcon
...... you mean howlers right
small aspen
iirc howlers are wild imps
wild grail
I thought they were cousins
Or something to that effect
Hey wait, if the Voice speaks to you in English, and English is basically “the old language” and it’s literally what he sounds like (or whatever),
Does the Voice look over every Rite that takes place, and do the other triumvirates just hear nonsense when he speaks?
mild falcon
Well the thing with English is that you can use it to talk telepathically
timid silo
If he's talking to Readers, Readers know English
There's a throwaway line that can be read as him being the Nightwings' voice and there could be other Justices who preside over the other triums
About working together - it says "three shall be as one" on the tin, but it's a big theme that systems corrupt eventually, so in the present time the triumvirates don't seem too close for the most part. Reforming the Nightwings from the ground up gave them a tight bond
But the old group? Of course Volfred and Oralech bonded ("bonded" as the case may be), and Ti'zo too, but Brighton was Brighton and Erisa... you don't push someone off a mountain if you care for him past a certain threshold, I think?
(Last thing about first impressions I swear - it's a character flaw! It's good that characters have those! Jodi wants to leave you for dead at the very beginning and nobody holds that over her?)
mild falcon
yeah i dont think volfred is like... a badly designed character for behaving this way
i think its cool that volfred is flawed
wet inlet
||I just managed to beat Oralech on TN with 12 stars with 70% of the match on 10 pyre hp
at that point my hatred for him was so intense I took the ticket to upside for myself for the first time||
harsh briar
heck yeah, treat yoself
wet inlet
||now, that was an indirect murder but tbf he was kinda an arse||
harsh briar
Ugh how do you get through true nightwings mode in the later rites without just getting completely stomped by titan star bonuses?
Like I know "you don't have to win just keep pushing forward" but like... man getting run over all the time is rough
small aspen
i've heard talismans make a big difference
harsh briar
Hmm... might be too late in this game to power up new talismans, but I'll see what I can do
small aspen
you could try rearranging them or modifying your powerup skill thingies
also some characters do better in certain matchups compared to others
but i guess later in the game you've probably liberated some people so your options aren't as good
harsh briar
Yeah, and now half the team is sick lol
It's good - I'm thinking I'll let the tempers win a rite so I can beat their slow-moving selves at soliam
safe hawk
harsh briar
Last liberation rite.... heaven help my scrappy self
midnight hawk
good luck!
unborn copper
Pyre Community Rite Nite (multiplayer Pyre) starts less than half an hour!
Watch at https://www.twitch.tv/lidsvids and/or join the Rite Club server (https://discord.gg/XHTtNGe) to get involved!
timid silo
NICE
lime mural
What is this Rite club?
harsh briar
Oralech can get absolutely bent
vestal bluff
Rite Club is a server where we organize Rite Nite, a weekly stream where members can play PvP Pyre against eachother
We've got a link to our server in the pins, and our stream this week starts in about 15 minutes!
We'd be stoked to have you! All skill levels always welcome 
spark moon
We even do fun requests for matches
unborn copper
Live now!
mild falcon
👀
lime mural
I see. I want to practice a bit before playing against other players properly, but thanks for explaining!
spark moon
Aw we're not that scary
timid silo
You're a lovely bunch! I definitely recommend giving it a try. I'm almost never able to actually sit down and play on European Sunday evenings but if I could, I would 🙏
lime mural
also need money to buy it on Steam, since I'm playing the copy I got from the Racial Justice bundle
spark moon
If you're playing with us you don't need to own steam on pyre
Just have a steam account
We use remote play
lime mural
Wait, does remote play work with non-Steam copies?
spark moon
You're basically playing on someone elses computer so its not about if or where you own pyre
grim tusk
Where else is Pyre even on computer-wise?
lime mural
I see. Then I'll try it out next weekend!
spark moon
We're also available throughout the week if you wanna do some quickness
lime mural
Okay! 
heavy hill
and gog
grim tusk
ah I see
wild grail
What I wanna know is how bad can the lag be? It is a reactionary game, and it's connection quality with some of my friends has been mixed...
mild falcon
it's peer to peer
so the only thing that would really cause lag is the distance between the two players
or, i assume it's peer to peer
wild grail
Hrm.
wild grail
Oof
vestal bluff
It's not so bad if you're on the same continent
muted pebble
If
wild grail
My only regret is that I couldn’t install any Pyre (or any SGG) music as a mod for Left 4 Dead 2
Also I would pay for Extra Triumvirate interactions, mainly in the heccin custom match thing.
forest girder
Text: Horde is coming soon, prepare to defend your position.
Never to Return starts playing
heavy hill
thrash pack for that concert level
wild grail
Will of the Scribes plays whenever there's a random Tank, and Dread Design plays around/from Witches
Path to Glory plays in the concert Finale for the first song, Thrash Pack plays for the second song. Their respective "Never to Return" variants play when Tanks appear.
Oh my, was listening to Thrash Pack with their Never to Return variant paused on another tab. Seemless transition.
Though, the Pyrehearts themes could also replace the Accusers' songs? Dissidents' themes definitely stay though
hnneh. Not as seemless as the Dissidents'.
sage terrace
The Pyre soundtrack >>
wild grail
SGG always has good soundtracks I swear
jagged pebble
darren is god when it comes to the music
celest fog
I just finished my all stars tn run and it went rather smoothly ||only lost two liberation rites||
It's all thanks to Failer strategy and Rukey so yeah, thanks for the tips :p
Also ||i liberated Oralech for the first time||
hybrid marlin
darren's music makes me want to learn guitar
jagged pebble
bastion definitely makes you want to do that
but a lot of the more recent stuff is mandolin and other string instruments (at least for the vocals)
wild grail
Is Hades played with the Mandolin?
muted pebble
Some songs are indeed played with the mandolin
limber vault
Done with Pyre 100%! True nightwings is really difficult. I got almost 75% winrate, thanks to a fully-upgraded Ti'zo!
west pollen
i know they said they have no plans for it right now but once i am basking in the afterglow of having hades on switch and playing it a ton again, i will go back to wistfully pining for a switch port of pyre 
ssg games feel so nice on switch for some reason
vestal bluff
It’s made even worse by the fact that Pyre is literally the best one for the Switch ‘cause it has Versus mode right there
Would make introducing people to the game a bit easier imo
west pollen
yeah agreed, this would be the best game to put on that console
then i can play it and bawl my eyes out privately in handheld mode instead of over at my desk which is visible to the living room
worked well for transistor lol
jagged pebble
yes
west pollen
that's probably the thing that's kept me from playing again recently, i'm just like "oh man am i ready to cry that much again right this moment"
mild falcon
Imagine defeating oralech with all titan stars with joycon drift
jagged pebble
oh god
i somehow beat the final boss in hades with a joycon drift
it sucked but i did it
spark moon
Drift meta
west pollen
that'll just be the new extra challenge mode - "yeah, you beat oralech with all titan stars, but can you do it with drift?!"
torn bolt
having watched cait's stream i am Once Again Wishing for scribes prequel content
unborn copper
Tempers have been flaring as of late in the Rite Club, and I don't mean the triumvirate
It was only a matter of time until things boiled over, and I'm afraid that that they have
On one side, the Orb Wife supporters, those that say Sandra is best girl
On the other, those that say she was imprisoned for hundreds of years because she failed at her one job
Harps and gentlewyrms, I give you the Rite Club Civil War: Sandra vs. The World
Pyre Community Rite Nite (multiplayer Pyre Civil War Edition) starts in just over three hours!
Watch at https://www.twitch.tv/lidsvids and/or join the Rite Club server (https://discord.gg/XHTtNGe) to get involved!
Which side will you support?
heavy hill
yeah she failed at her job but that doesn't change how I feel
torn bolt
she failed at her one job and it ultimately wasn't even a morally justifiable job
imagine trying to kill someone who doesn't deserve to die and not even being able to do it. couldn't be me
timid silo
I'll sit in the corner that doesn't use 'best girl' unironically, give or take 
and I love her but I love others more, so if that's the divide...
torn bolt
i do really like sandra as a character
my one (1) gripe is that the game frames sandra/reader romantically lol
please gregory. i'm gay
wild grail
Anyone else read that in The Voice?
unborn copper
Live now - let the war begin!
sharp rivet
O R B W I F E
wild grail
Pfheh
forest girder
O R B M A N C E
west pollen
||I sent all my friends home except the ones who were happier down there/didn’t care (the girl, tizo, and bertrude) and let oralech go because I just needed my orb wife and didn’t care what world I was in as long as she was there|| 😍 😭 🔮
native shard
Talk show host: everyone welcome the new superhero, Orbmancer! they're a wizard that fights with a magic orb!
Orbmancer, who named themselves that because they romanced their orb: 😅
forest girder
It's important to distinguish the difference between 'Orbmance' (Loving an spheroid), 'Bromance' (tight but non-romantic friendship) and 'Robance' (Love between two robbers and/or Highwaymen)
mild falcon
Ronmance....
timid silo
that's the most important of them all
onyx forum
robomance?? 🤖
west pollen
ouroboromance
wild grail
Question: does Barker help make the Rite Nites
small zinc
It would've been cool if the VS mode were Barker knockoff rites
timid silo
Hah, right. With Brighton still doing the commentary
limber vault
orb wife and sword boyfriend, so what's next Supergiant? hahaha
west pollen
cheese grater dom
lavish vine
wild grail
Hell dad or Snake maid
west pollen
Next time, a protagonist who lives in a house that is imbued with the spirit of their mother. House mom
lavish vine
these all sound vaguely familiar for some reason
pure merlin
silent hill 4 lul
small aspen
sgg horror game when
midnight hawk
(from #fan-works ) i think Manley is terrible but absolutely delightful to hate
timid silo
Same!
small aspen
yes
timid silo
An Ace Attorney culprit through and through, up to and including his Ace Attorney culprit theme. So, great!
midnight hawk
pyre really has such good antagonist characters
timid silo
Yeah!!
Drawing the weeping one, I thought a lot about what That Moment must've meant to everyone who was there... 
Like... Erisa's "the risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math" moment, Oralech's No Good Very Bad Day of course, and Volfred was broken to the point that he shut down the rites forever (or that was the idea at the time). But also... Celeste??
timid silo
"That happened" - Celeste probably
timid silo
That's rough, buddy - Tariq
safe merlin
small aspen
no but we all dream of it
harsh briar
Uggghh it would be perfect for the switch
swift mango
my one (1) gripe is that the game frames sandra/reader romantically lol
@torn bolt I didn't particularly view it as 100 percent romantic, though. I'm sorry if that displeases or disappointed you in any way... 😦
It would've been cool if the VS mode were Barker knockoff rites
@small zinc actually, that's a really cool idea! XD
signal onyx
I personally only saw Sandra as potential romantic interest, but although I didn't hesitate long before taking the orb with me, I only saw her as my sassy, spritual friend.
The game honestly never really invested me in any romance, even NPCs' like with Fae or Hedwyn's (back)stories.
This may be because of my aromantic self, or it may be because -and I think that's more likely- Pyre's strength doesn't lie there; Pyre excels at depicting growing and evolving kinship, friendship & comradery between people, and something as simplistic and meaningless as pure love doesn't have a place here.
heavy hill
sandra's ending if you keep the orb is pretty explicit about being a more romantic nature, given that narration describes it as "too lascivious for the history books to include" or something along those lines
timid silo
Lots of pretty explicit endings in the epilogues too if the characters end up on the same side (and since basically the only one I like is Hedwyn's, I would definitely agree that "Pyre's strength doesn't lie there; Pyre excels at depicting growing and evolving kinship, friendship & comradery between people" 😔 )
heavy hill
idk I liked it
since most of the romantic-leaning endings are from opposite sides who wouldn't have had that comradery and strong friendship, just an interest in the other party
timid silo
If only that were shown. I don't lean toward slap-slap-kiss in general but I can be sold on it if canon takes its time , but all I saw was one-sided interest, and then in the epilogue bam, they're together.
heavy hill
xae and dalbert'skidiforgothisname seemed like they built towards it pretty clearly
also that was the only one I ended up with except for sandra so idk
timid silo
Mind you, certain dynamics I don't think I would've liked in general, like Ignarius and Jodi. Almer and ae for me has waaaay too little on Almer's end and needed more work... It was obviously telegraphed as romance but that's no indicator of quality for me.
cobalt elbow
I do say the relationships feel natural and great in Pyre, but I think the most that shined (in my opinion) are rivalry or bittering that may some have between each other, since that was raised the stakes or the whole how each character interacted.
torn bolt
yeah i am just 0% invested in any of the explicit romances in that game
forest girder
sandra's ending if you keep the orb is pretty explicit about being a more romantic nature, given that narration describes it as "too lascivious for the history books to include" or something along those lines
@heavy hill
Licentious, which means 'promiscuous and unprincipled in sexual matters.' or 'disregarding accepted conventions'
heavy hill
ah that's what the word was
i haven't played in a long while I'm going from memory
forest girder
Although I think the reader says that only if you are a lesbian couple
Given she only says that if you select 'Humor her' it's obvious she is just joking
torn bolt
no, they definitely say that if you have a male reader too
forest girder
Oh
torn bolt
why would that only be said for a lesbian couple?
forest girder
My bad
I thought he used a different word if he was male
Not Lascivious but close
Yep lascivous if he is male
midnight hawk
i do love pyre quite a bit but i did feel like a lot of the romantic relationships were like...... kind of shoe horned in. like you have deluge/seagrass out of nowhere, where lady seagrass has a generic portrait and no in gane dialogue (iirc)
timid silo
(if only out of anthropological interest, or wyrm equivalent thereof, let us know what kind of being can legit be into Deluge...)
forest girder
@midnight hawk The biggest crime is that Ron can't be romanceable by anybody.
mild falcon
Given the genre, I think a lot of people expected more romance...
I think it's better that the romance is all postgame
Better than if the romance was playable
remote cargo
coral turret
literally I just wanted to marry sir gilman 
but I would’ve been happy at least seeing jodi be like. Implied bi or lesbian. Maybe make hedwyns boo a dude idk. Romancable characters is always fun but I think at the very least it’s nice when a game has at least one lgbt character that isn’t like the customizable player character. And even then! I like the idea of Sandra only being into them if they’re nb or a woman, and just being like platonic life partners if he’s a dude. Idk why! Again I wish some of these things were more explicitly explained. Like I was confused if rukey and pam got together at the end? And I wish volfreds relationship to oralech was more spelled out bc it really felt like they were implying they were romantic, especially with how he didn’t reciprocate bertrudes affection (ofc that could just be his preference)
torn bolt
the problem with pyre is that the heterosexual content is explicit and plentiful, and the lgbt content is nonexistent or implied.
timid silo
For me there are three separate tiers at play... One, what Stephen says, fair and square. Two, that the characters who end up together mostly aren't shown mutually liking each other, like at all, it's always a one-sided attraction that whoops endgame couple. Three is just luck of the draw for me. Generally speaking I like that the player having plot-altering choices doesn't necessarily mean that they have a say in the romantic developments. In practice there's a big mismatch between my preferred romantic tropes and the ones the game consistently pursues, so, tough luck.
forest girder
I though the Deluge/Seagrass was the punchline of a joke
About HIM of all people getting a happy ending
heavy hill
was volfred/oralech only "implied"? I thought it was pretty explicit
small aspen
i did not notice
maybe because i missed out on some interactions but it was not obvious in the slightest
forest girder
His conversation about Freedom screamed about 'Forbidden sexuality' tho
midnight hawk
it's really not that explicit. it's defined but the queer coding is weak and it could've been a lot more concrete. or even just made it stated in canon, like the other pairings
forest girder
'nobody should be judged by whom they love'
-Volfred
midnight hawk
yes and that's part of the coding, but it's not explicit
at least compared to every other pairing
small aspen
👆
and volfred is all for everyone's rights
even if not gay he would totally be an ally
midnight hawk
yeah and that covers interspecies too, not just same gender, since that's a part of the story
forest girder
Just to be clear. ||Achilles/Patroclus|| from hades would be considered explicit. Right?
midnight hawk
i haven't played that far so i can't say
but explicit is things being put straight in the text. something like if volfred called oralech a former lover or something. coding is things like "kindred souls" bc it's very wink wink nudge nudge they were in love without saying it, but also doesn't hold up that well because rukey and sir gilman are called kindred souls but it's not meant in a romantic way
forest girder
Ah, ok
celest fog
I do not find ||Achilles/Patroclus|| from Hades to be explicit, or maybe haven't seen enough dialogues. ||did reunite them||
lime mural
Wrong channel, friend.
celest fog
Responding to someone that posted here, but I do agree
celest fog
Concerning Oralech/Volfred now that it has been mentioned..
I'll pay more attention during my next playthrough
Seems in character for Volfred imo
forest girder
Yeah it makes Sense Volfred not talk about it at first, as Oralech has been as far he knows dead for more than half a decade, but later when Oralech is unambiguously alive....
midnight hawk
i do understand volfred to be more subtle about things, as that is his character, but still... there really needed to be a lot more to it
mild falcon
Volfred is a subtle sort of guy, he wouldn't say it...... but oralech totally could've
"We used to be lovers, and then you conspired against me, you horrible traitor"
"How could you betray my fragile doctor's heart"
"You ate an apple today, didn't you? :("
midnight hawk
yeah oralech saying something makes a lot of sense
grim tusk
||Patroclus/Achilles|| has been the only gay relationship I've noticed on my own in any of their games up to this point
small aspen
there's some in transistor
midnight hawk
gay people tend to pick up on coding more than straight people
coral turret
Oh man I didn’t even know gilman and rukey were called kindred souls! Was that in the resolution? anyways. Maybe it doesn’t imply they’re gay...but it should 😏
midnight hawk
i support rukey/gilman
grim tusk
Ik @small aspen, that’s why I said “noticed on my own”
small aspen
ah i missed that part
timid silo
I'd say it's implied but if you want to tell yourself "they're good friends" there's nothing in the text that contradicts you. You can also not notice it to begin with. None of the het ships get that ambiguity if you see all their text. (Ae/Almer in my playthrough stopped at a similar level for example but that's my playthrough, not canon as a whole)
timid silo
I don't... really know what to make of Rukey/Gilman on my own but I'd look up fanfic or meta to be convinced of it if they existed
graceful siren
About || AchillesxPatroclus ||, doesn't the second say "i love him still" and "my || Achilles ||"? Not EXPLICIT but it's clear
celest fog
Ok I see it now ^^'
forest girder
It's SIR Gilman The Bold, you plebeians
coral turret
I bet his friends just call him gil
Or his...more than friends 😏
Alternatively they could just call him sir, or man, either of which are awful and I now like the idea of
Wait lemme propose one more: gilm
grim tusk
I saw absolutely no romantic relationships at all in Pyre, idk where you guys see this stuff tbh
small aspen
jodi's one is probably the most obvious
vestal bluff
You don't think Almae is a romance?
small aspen
the thing with bertrude is also pretty easy to understand
vestal bluff
She really clearly has a crush on Almer, and if she plays against him enough, she gets a +1 bonus to Hope from "Thinking of Almer"
small aspen
if you didn't get those character interactions then it's possible to miss them
vestal bluff
And then they spend a bunch of off-camera time together after the Rite where they played against eachother
coral turret
It’s crumbs but it’s there, the rest is just wishful thinking bc I didn’t like any of the pairings really
I did think ae and dalberts son was cute but more as friends. Jodi and iggy are cute but. Cmon look at jodi and tell me you didn’t think she was like bara wife bait bc that’s how I saw her. Idk maybe I’m biased but all the characters came off as like pretty /not/ straight in their design? Maybe that’s a reach. Actually it def is but I stand by the statement
torn bolt
i also did not like any of the pairings
chae and almer are cute friends, sure, but that's it
coral turret
All of them felt like afterwards if anything
torn bolt
please don't make them kiss greg supergiant just let them be pals
also i literally didn't get any of the paired romance endings in my playthrough so i was like. shrug emoji! i do not see it 😌
coral turret
The most interesting ones are the ones that didn’t happen/may have happened in the past like with volfred and oralech, bertrude and volfred, and even the relationship between some of the scribes
torn bolt
jodi/iggy? you literally cannot convince me that is canon, sorry
torn bolt
'the relationship between some of the scribes' it's okay you can say gol and soliam 
torn bolt
in practice i was yelling at the screen like Ignarius She's A Lesbian She's Not Into You
coral turret
All the girl characters have like very strong lesbian vibes to me save ae who feels pretty a(e)romantic
But that’s just my hc
torn bolt
they're all lesbians
but yeah gol/soliam >> literally any m/w ship in the actual canon text of pyre
two lines of gay subtext >> Actual Attempted Romance Writing lol
coral turret
agreed. Even my hc ships are. eh. Bc Sandra has to be with the reader, and then jodi. Well I guess she’d be cute with pam I dunno. And ofc oralech and volfred but if I’m being honest I’m not like 100% sold on those I just know they’d be better than a m/f pairing involving characters we hardly know anything about
I just love found family and gilman/rukey but I will be the first to say I’m building that one on shaky popsicle sticks, out on a far off island from popular canon and non canon ships
torn bolt
oralech and volfred is imo canon but it's so much less explicit than like. anything, including deluge/that one other wyrm lady
vestal bluff
I really don't get how you can read Shae's dialogue when she's talking about or to Almer and get aromantic from that
Oralwood is canon
timid silo
If you wanna consolidate Volfred/Oralech thoughts there's an audience for that! Personally I'm very into Pam/Bertrude from their ending
torn bolt
i mean like
torn bolt
i didn't get chae and almer's ending
coral turret
I dunno I imagine her being aro
timid silo
and I KNOW it's technically a crackship but listen. Jodi/Celeste. We got fic and everything
coral turret
I like their friendship and accept that they’re together in the game it’s just an hc
Omg
I can second that it feels right and I’ve never even thot of it before
torn bolt
can we agree that tariq/celeste was totally flimsy though
coral turret
OH pam bertrude tho. I’ve given it consideration mainly bc of the amazing art I’ve seen of it
torn bolt
that's second only to jodi/iggy in terms of 'het nonsense that actively irritated me'
vestal bluff
Someone said Tariq and Celeste are estranged exes who become friends again
coral turret
Tariq and Celeste are such beards
vestal bluff
And that made sense to me
timid silo
Again: not one (1) line where Celeste appreciates him. Not one (1) line that's effectively romantic on his part
coral turret
Like i know this is a wild comparison but it feels like spongbeob and sandy to me
torn bolt
tariq and celeste were made by the scribes to be partners bc sun and moon etc etc but they both realized they were gay literally five minutes into the relationship
coral turret
But I do like the idea of them being exes I think it’s funny, and Tariq just being insanely polite and appreciative of celestes beauty and grace but. He just feels very gay to me! Again I admit I’m biased but I don’t normally hc every character in fiction as gay so I promise I’m not just saying this lol
Yesss
torn bolt
no no tariq is gay
timid silo
Yeah exes checks. My main take is like... exes but more metaphysical, like they weren't human enough when they decided it wasn't a good idea to pursue this. Then Tariq followed the lives of many mortals and Celeste who self-evidently drew the short stick here... didn't.
Yeah Tariq is gay that's how it is
torn bolt
i accept that the game wants me to think that tariq and celeste are a couple
i just hated it
they just weren't even friendly to each other
coral turret
YES I love the idea of them being created, and then their learned experiences being so wildly different that they cannot help but change from their original purpose
It’s very similar to a lot of robot/ai narratives, becoming human type stories and I hold those very dear to my heart personally
timid silo
That's pretty much Tariq's actual arc so there's that
he's totally the Spock of the group
coral turret
Yes yes that’s how I saw him too, and thinking about that is what made me empathize with Celeste more
I think they did a good job characterizing her just through her few lines of dialogue mainly to Tariq
torn bolt
oh yeah tariq and celeste have a great storyline
i just was not at all buying that they even liked each other
timid silo
And he changed throughout the centuries and then got a big push thanks to Volfred and at the very end he's like "...we can make decisions for ourselves. that's a thing we can do"
torn bolt
tariq: celeste if i may have a word?
celeste: no. go away. i do not like you.
me leaning into the screen: tariq i think she may be a lesbian.
timid silo
He tells her something we're never privy to and in the end they're meant to go back to the stars and. don't. choose to live their lives instead.
coral turret
Love the idea of the reader trying to discuss the possibility after witnessing her snub him time and time again. ANd volfred just takes them aside and is like
I’ve tried it. Don’t worry i think Tariq is gay anyways
torn bolt
lmaoooooo
coral turret
He just doesn’t know it yet
timid silo
I think there's an added layer to Celeste's bitterness in the game! Because Tariq straight-up disappeared for years, you know? And without him and without the Rites, she was alone
the alternative to being alone was. Ignarius and the Tempers right outside apparently. so. as I was saying. alone.
coral turret
and she really had no context for his absence for a while I’m guessing too
timid silo
Yeah!
coral turret
Or at the very least just hearsay
timid silo
AND there is not one single line in the game that even implies that his depression nap was needed
He could've buried the wagon and gone back to mt Alodiel. He very well didn't. He could've sent word. But didn't. He could've grabbed the first three exiles he came across and told them "congratulations! You're the Nightwings now" and let the cycle continue but he followed Volfred's depression first and Volfred's renewed plan later. sooooooooo
girl may be rightfully pissed off a lil bit
coral turret
I KNOW I’ve been wondering about that— the nap, while I appreciate it. WHY did he do that.
timid silo
depression
He was alone with the wagon he was meant to bury forever... what else was he meant to do?
(unclear on Ti'zo's whereabouts for that stretch of the timeline - my take is that he bowed out near the Cairn of Ha'ub, appropriately enough given his relationship to Ha'ub, but it's inference not direct canon)
vestal bluff
Volfred was the one who ordered the wagon buried
My guess is that his agents didn't realize Tariq was inside when they did that
And then when Hedwyn and them uncovered it, they kinda just accepted it (!?)
The reason Tariq did this though is 'cause he takes his Herald job too seriously. He reckons (as the Book does) that Triumvirates will always have a Blackwagon, and the only reason that that wagon would be used again is if the Nightwings returned
"Where did Ti'zo go?" is the hardest thing to reconcile actually
How did Volfred get rid of him?
...and if Ti'zo didn't stay with Volfred, why didn't he look for Oralech? How come Iq'sa and Gareph (the most fashionable man in the Downside btw) found Oralech before his trusted friends did?
midnight hawk
i think they all assumed oralech was dead, since he was thrown from a mountain and all that
timid silo
Yeah, they thought they saw him die...
heavy hill
volfred: "I think I forgot something"
whoeverburiedthewagon: "If you forgot it, it wasn't important"
volfred: "Yeah, you're right"
cut to Tariq buried in the wagon
vestal bluff
🤷♂️ Guess I'll die sleep for 5 years
spark moon
You phrase that as though he wasn't secretly hoping for that outcome the whole time
jagged pebble
i would kill to be able to sleep for 5 years
vestal bluff
iktf broski
jagged pebble
wtf does that man failer
celest fog
I don't get it, what's up with everyone having to clearly identify or have a specific orientation.. o-õ
timid silo
Because the heterosexual relationships announce themselves loud and clear and set the standard
west pollen
I know it’s been discussed often in here, but in light of Hades being be top selling game on switch, I sure do hope SSG seriously considers porting Pyre over as well 
grim tusk
I thought I read something in the rules a long time ago about them wanting people to pick a role for it, but I’m blind apparently because I don’t see it, so I think it’s just personal preference of people wanting you to know exactly what they want to be called by (usually if they’re trans). 🤷♂️
@celest fog
torn bolt
i mean, pronoun roles aren't just for trans people
but i think they're referring to our previous discussion
grim tusk
I know I said usually
torn bolt
about wanting more explicit lgbt representation
i don't think 'if there is explicit man/woman romance there should be At Least Even Any same-gender romance or trans characters' is too high of a bar, actually
grim tusk
I guess I don’t really understand the pronouns for non-trans tho, because I honestly don’t care if people assume my gender since I think for me personally it’s quite obvious I’m a guy
west pollen
It’s more of a “let’s not assume for anyone or put the burden of pointing it out all on trans people, it can just be a normal thing to list” thing
Or nb
Basically what harm is it doing lol
torn bolt
☝️ if only trans people specify their pronouns, it automatically outs trans people
we're off topic tho
west pollen
Yup
upbeat sage
There is #off-topic-discussion if you want to continue this discussion there
celest fog
What i meant is I'm ok with people fantasizing on a fictional character sexual life and interests.. What I don't get is why Celeste would be lesbian for example.. o-õ
Or Tariq homosexual
Also I find it stupid to force specific relationship for the sake of equity or more diverse representation. Might make said romance feel less natural.. Maybe that's just me though and I respect your opinions on the subject :p
west pollen
I think if a character is clearly defined and preset largely then it makes sense to only give choices that are natural for that character. If the character is left to the player to define, I always want more options so it doesn’t take anyone out of the immersion tbh
celest fog
On that I agree
torn bolt
i don't think adding gay characters in pyre would have been "forcing" anything
is it "forced" when straight characters are added?
why do heterosexual people fit into pyre's world naturally, but gay people are forced?
celest fog
It's not what I meant either..
Someone mentioned Volfred/Oralech.. And to be fair I totally missed it, but it feels in character for Volfred in my opinion. This ship totally make sense. On the other hand saying Celeste is lesbian, I do not see where this is coming from. :p
I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feeling because it for sure wasn't intended :/
torn bolt
i mean, fair to have your own opinion
it's just also other people's prerogative to come to different conclusions from you
celest fog
Yeah and that's fair, I just find it weird that's all s:
Not every character has to be part of lgbtq+
timid silo
but none is
that's the core of the issue
We can happily, non-confrontationally discuss any single given character till the cows come home! Celeste doesn't ping ME as heterosexual at all, whereas idk Hedwyn does, but that's just my reading of two specific characters and we all have ours, different readings for different people and that's great. Look at the whole and there's the issue.
west pollen
Idk man ||my female reader and her orb wife were pretty gay by the end there||
celest fog
Sorry if I worded my opinion badly, English not being my native language can make it hard sometime. It's basically what I was trying to say so yeah.. ^^'
Same Hataalii, same lol
timid silo
Me too but player-sexual characters add one further layer to the conversation. (and it has been pointed out that this leaves anyone who's playing a reader who's not into women in a pinch, because the options are romance her or give her a bad ending)
Mind you, all this grumbling obviously comes from a place of great love for the canon and for all it accomplishes in so many other respects
west pollen
Yeah fair
Lol I did a run of the DA series recently and “player-sexual” is giving me DA2 flashbacks. Sorry OT but had to say
But in her case I’d just say she’s pan and call it a day
torn bolt
i think it's nice that there's a nonbinary reader option and a potential romance with sandra
i just wish the only option wasn't to either romance sandra or give her a bad ending
because i'm gay and it harshed my vibes
west pollen
Again totally fair
celest fog
Yeah the nb option is really a nice and considerative plus from Supergiant c:
timid silo
It really is!
celest fog
Only problem is, in my language there is none gender neutral term to refer to someone
So I kinda missed it the first times I played it, but when I played the game in english it was great being a "they"
small aspen
i didn't feel like the Sandra relationship had to be romantic
but I'm also a person who gets asked if my friends are my romantic partners a lot
small aspen
the amount of implicit info and difference in character interpretation in this game is starting to give me cognitive dissonance
west pollen
Oh yeah no it didn’t have to be, I meant that mine was and it had that potential if you wanted it that way
forest girder
i didn't feel like the Sandra relationship had to be romantic
@small aspen
Isn't pick and choose? Like you can end either as friends or a couple?
small aspen
yeah so it's confusing how people are saying it's bad end or marriage
upbeat sage
I guess it's related to if you get to the point with Sandra of choosing to leave her behind our take her with you maybe?
But that's the only thing i can think of that'd give people you either choose "bad end for Sandra" or "romance"
As much as I will jest about Sandra being orb waifu, I moreso saw things being platonic over anything else
small aspen
slightly distasteful joke to make to the ace
forest girder
Ace?
upbeat sage
Asexual 
wild grail
What if Barker and Brighton collaborated and presided over the rites together
onyx forum
yes yes yes yes
forest girder
Barker: Hear me out. What if instead of an harp duet we put a trash metal band as guardian of the rites?
onyx forum
barkers like i found these nomads who just wanna rock out and its darren korb and ashley barrette
forest girder
Barker: ok, then here is an electric guitar give it to the ash-looking guy over there.
Harps are for Harpies.
wild grail
Can I talk about how I try to take the color Yellow or White in Among Us, get one of those fancy looking hats, and named myself Lendel? (I'm also the Detective usually)
wild grail
...whoops, I guess I should be hogging Yellow or Cyan
sturdy swallow
does anyone have the link to the transcribed book of rites?
sturdy swallow
awesome!
forest girder
You must do it, because if you don't do it, nobody else will.
dusky cradle
Don't be like the other readers before you-
Love her to the fullest extent and then beyond.
And always take her away from the downside.
forest girder
Lob the orb
forest girder
Don't stranda Sandra
forest girder
Fite the Rites
muted pebble
Stop
swift moss
west pollen
meh, ||stay or go re: the downside||, just love the orb
forest girder
It's better to stay as that means your lifespan will be increased so you'll spend more time together
wild grail
Eh, I prefer keeping promises.
west pollen
||my end state iirc was everyone out including oralech with just myself, bertrude, tizo, and mae staying behind (tizo hangs with mae who has dog boy whose name i'm blanking on cos i'm dumb this morning, bertrude keeps doing her thing, i get to hang with sandra and the others). a little sad about splitting up the OG team but honestly my reader didn't have a great life on the surface and had grown so much more in the downside, it seemed fitting to stay behind and make sure everyone else got their chance, since i mainly wanted to be able to keep an eye on tizo and mae while hanging with orb wife||
promises were made before we knew the whole mechanics of how it all worked, though
that's the issue with that
i've thought about doing another run but i struggle to think about who i'd want to send home instead via losing, what ending re: the plan i'd feel comfy accepting, etc.
but that's how i did my first one and it felt good (i cried so much oh god)
(this game made me cry more than any other SSG game thus far)
but i'm always curious to hear what people think make for good endings 🙂
wild grail
I mean, I was pretty accepting about the part where I wouldn't have been able to escape but I'll be damned if I'm gonna make Hedwyn think he deserted me.
timid silo
Send many strongly worded messenger imps until he's convinced
wild grail
lol
For me, Volfred, Bertrude, Ti'zo, Pamitha and Gilman all stayed behind. My priorities were on releasing the original trio, and then those who were not from the Downside (Mae, Gilman, Pamitha). Though I think Volfred, Bertrude, Pamitha and Gilman said they were fine with remaining.
but I'm gonna be honest, losing two of the Rites weren't my choice, lol
timid silo
I started from a perspective of "as few demons as possible" and worked my way from there since the other races at least didn't have that painful transformation. Ended up with my Reader, Gilman, Bertrude and Pamitha, basically prioritizing Bertrude's wishes and happiness (I really REALLY dig her ending with Pamitha. I do NOT dig Pam's ending with Tamitha but I'll admit to putting it at a lower priority so them's the breaks)
I'm try to finalize the rest of a "Downside Volfred and Oralech, topside Reader" ending I'd like but it feels like I can't quite square the circle
torn bolt
i ended with me, bertrude, and ti'zo down and oralech dead, but tbh? i think a better ending is volf and oralech down and reader up
oh i would never allow pam to end up on the same side as tam
never ever ever
timid silo
Possibly Volfred-Ti'zo-ae + Oralech Downside? (Does that look like I'm prioritizing Ti'zo? I just might)
torn bolt
i also just really like chae's topside ending + don't care at all whether or not she ends up with almer
so there's that too
timid silo
But that option has topside Bertrude and topside Bertrude takes it as a personal affront 🤣 but I don't want to split her from Pam so that might be it... The other bad split there would be Jodi-ae which hurts but :c
At least you're 100% on that! I like her Downside ending better but not the ship, but a pacifist ending has top priority so no opponents go up.. and I'm super torn on where to leave her.
Another thing is the Volfred-Bertrude bond for me... Pros and cons either way so I'm always torn. On one hand, it's easier to get over a crush if said crush is out of reach. On the other hand, they're also very good friends and I care them. So :<
west pollen
@wild grail jsyk i think you tried to spoiler those but you made them italics instead lol
spoiler is || on both ends, italics is *
wild grail
Oh no I just like speaking in different volumes/tones via italics
west pollen
oh haha
nm then 🙂
at least with jodi and *ae split if the reader stays you still keep an eye on her and you guys can check in with jodi
and yeah i feel bad making hedwyn upset but also, dude, it was my choice, you did nothing wrong
over time i imagine he'd realize and mellow out
timid silo
Reader goes in my tentative scenario but Ti'zo stays...
west pollen
Ti’zo and *ae are the best and I care more about them than anyone else save orbwife, that is all
coral turret
I like keeping ae with dog boy bc it seems to keep him happier, and I don’t like separating him from his dad. She’s gotta stay with tizo too, and he has not reason to go up. The reader stays down because they’re keeping the orb for Sandra, and I think orb should stay in the downside JUST in case the rites start up ever again. Plus elongated lifespan for friendship city unlimited. The reader can help try to form a community and keep an eye on ae! Bertrude wants to stay down, and as much as I like trying to make pam and tam makeup I haven’t ever been able to. But I don’t think tam should go back up either way. I’m always unsure about wether or not it’s better for pam to stay down, but I like keeping her, rukey, and gilman together (I just hc them all as super good friends bc I love their interactions. I never noticed pam and bertrude but I know bertrude is friends with gilman so I’m going to now include her as well lol). Rukeys gotta go up for his mama! So...him and pam going up makes sense. I personally beleive gilman only says he wants to stay down out of a misplaced sense of like survivors guilt and shame that it seemed like he went awol, so I like sending him up to prove to him he never really had to reform but even so he became a better person regardless. And to rub it in deluges face. jodi can stay or go, I think both endings are good as long as she has people she cares about around her like Mae and hedwyn or even iggy even tho I don’t dig their ship. I haven’t...figured out how to keep oralech alive but I’d prefer to keep him with volfred, and I think volfred going up helps his plan a lot even if it separates him and bertrude and tizo :/ hedwyn should go up to be with his bird but then he feels awful about about abandoning you so...that’s awful to live with! I wish you could make him understand you WANT to stay down with friends Idk
SO
I think that would equate to jodi, pam, gilman, rukey, hedwyn? wait how many can you send up again
Jodi, oralech, volfred, pam, rukey, gilman bht hes the least prioritized here
jagged pebble
i always try to send up tizo
coral turret
Honestly I sorta like the ending when everyone stays down but it makes the plan flop right? Or does it just mean it’s a violent overthrow
What happens when he goes up? I’ve never tried it
I know it would completely defeat the purpose of the game but I sorta wish there was a way to read through all the dialogue options and various endings
timid silo
I like topside Ti'zo honestly, he's like an IMP EXPLORER and he's ready to eat food and do crimes, it's great 😂
Fikani/Hedwyn finds a way (thankfully, for me! I like them!) so that's thankfully not a concern wrt Hedwyn...
It's not an outcome I'll ever go for I think but there's some charm to "everyone up but Reader-Hedwyn-Jodi-Rukey"... I'd read that fic, you know?
mild falcon
Have you ever heard hedwyns reaction to being sent up first
timid silo
I don't believe I have!
mild falcon
It's TRAGIC
He promised Jodi and rukey that they'd all go up together and he feels like he's breaking that promise
west pollen
iirc yes if you don't send up enough of the gang it's a violent revolution
can't decide if that's worth having the new scribes all stay together in the downside to repeat history that way
timid silo
That boy is so intense 😭 I love him
For me no bloodshed is worth it and certainly not that much. No distance can separate our spirits
coral turret
Oh I didn’t know fikani goes to the downside if he’s down there! Then hedwyn might stay down in that case...also I FEEL you pineapple. My ot3 (as friends or whatever honestly) is pam/rukey/gilman. Which is. So so specific and obscure I know. But now I like pam/bertrude and rukey/gilman bht theyre also the oddest couple of best friends
I Thot pam and bertrude were cute just bc of fan art but I gotta see more of their in game interactions
There’s not a lot of bertrude and rukey interactions iirc? But him and pam are cute, just bc of how weird they are. And I love the interactions bertrude and pam both have with gilman omg. They’re so cute 😭 like exasperated/confused but endeared, humoring this stupid little annoying LOUD martyr for all hero to none wyrm Knight
Ok but then. Rukey is bffs with jodi and hedwyn as well. And jodi is like. Aes mom. And ae is tizos bff. AND TIZO HAS TO BE WITH VOLFRED AND ORALECH. It’s all connected they must all be together as one happy family
lavish vine
have fun
dusky cradle
I'm kind of sad that there is no other way to send Sandra up- other than going yourself.
timid silo
She can't exactly enjoy the views one way or another, can she? It's the company that makes all the difference?
dusky cradle
Yeah. And after all, leaving Sandra alone is the worst sin one could do.
marsh glen
Just a response to what was posted earlier about the harps, I think having both Tamitha and Pamitha end up topside worked out alright (obviously, I would have preferred to not to have liberated Tamitha, but that's just the way things went after my second liberation rite). Obviously things don't go great for the both of them straight away, but at least they're on speaking terms afterwards, which is what Pamitha wanted in the end, I think. Plus, I'm pretty sure some awful stuff happens if Tamitha is liberated but Pamitha isn't.
I made quite a few interesting choices during my playthrough of the game, I think, and I'm actually really pleased with the ending I got.
torn bolt
yeah i really don't care if they "end up on speaking terms" if pam gets literally physically maimed
pam goes up, tam stays down. always
timid silo
Moving from fanworks: Oralech's convo with Ti'zo is amazing; Oralech's convo with Hedwyn is also amazing. Highly recommended!
quartz cloak
bertrude and oralech pretty much just ignored each other i think
timid silo
It's not for the final rite, mind you, it's for the first confrontation! In the final rite afaik the only optional convo is Oralech Vs Volfred 😭
timid silo
Third cycle iirc, when he turns up instead of the triumvirate you were meant to face! It's what pushes Volfred to come back into the fray himself!
quartz cloak
ooOOHHH
marsh glen
@torn bolt Well, you've got a fair point there. Obviously I would have preferred it if Tam hadn't been liberated during my playthrough, but that's just the way things went.
I'm pretty satisfied with the way my story went, though. It wasn't a "perfect ending" or anything like that, but I'm happy with the way things turned out for me.
coral turret
There’s so many interactions I’ve missed out on bc I tend to just play with the characters in best at rather than level them all
azure marsh
I'm going to start playing pyre in about a week and a half and I'm so excited. I've only played the first few rites at this point.
hoary moat
There’s so many interactions I’ve missed out on bc I tend to just play with the characters in best at rather than level them all
@coral turret
The fun part about the game is that it rewards you for exploring other playstyles with storyline stuff. I can remember at first I hated using Fae and towards the end she was probably front and center all the time just because her dialogue is so ridiculous
Moving from fanworks: Oralech's convo with Ti'zo is amazing; Oralech's convo with Hedwyn is also amazing. Highly recommended!
@timid silo it was the cutest convo ever
median stirrup
Started Pyre last night and I am hooked! What a wonderful, unique game.
grim tusk
You’ll love it 👏
solemn hull
made it to the first liberation rite!
i kinda wish they gave us a non-standard character earlier
bc I've kinda been sticking with the first four
timid silo
Woohoo! And well, you've seen that the game forces you to switch it up eventually, one way or another, so you're encouraged to beat it to the punch and play a varied team!
wild grail
Does Oralech not count as a Nightwing when liberated?
heavy hill
I don't think so, iirc he doesn't know of/really care too much about the plan
he will ||tend to people's wounds in the event of a violent revolution/highwing remnants|| though
marsh glen
Man, I feel really awful for not liberating Oralech during my playthrough. 😥 Under different circumstances, I would have done it in a heartbeat, but I felt like I was in a super precarious situation, and I didn't want to risk anything going wrong. Maybe things will work out better for him if I decide to play though the game again.
west pollen
I really can’t decide if it’s worth playing again and forcing myself to get a different ending and feel that pain lol
Or if this is one of those games where I try to but I always end up just doing the same thing
timid silo
He doesn't count for getting the best ending but he joins the revolution in any case!
marsh glen
He does? Nice. I was somewhat worried he might jeopardize it! 😅
I managed to get an ending with a peaceful, and successful, revolution, and I managed to prevent the Highwing Remnants from attacking, so I'm pretty happy with how things turned out, even if some unfortunate things happened to a couple of characters.
timid silo
He's stunned for a hot second and then immediately joins the demonstration, chanting along with everyone else 😭 it was his dream, first and foremost...
His plan with Volfred, originally. He was the first one they planned to send up and start working on a peaceful revolution. There's even a change in The Plan's tooltip at the very end which shifts from saying it's Volfred's plan to saying it's Volfred's and Oralech's dream, with another change in wording that goes from Volf's overly intellectual take to a more intensely idealistic view that comes from Oralech. He knows the plan, he knows it very well
(I can't remember if the Reader counts for the best ending? It would make some sense to me that they would and some sense that they would not...)
marsh glen
I'm not sure if my ending was the"best ending", but I didn't send my Reader up during the final liberation rite, I sent Pamitha instead. Maybe that answers your question?
timid silo
It does not, alas! I know you need six Nightwings up for the best ending, so you can lose a lib rite and still get it if you send up someone from your roster.
So on one hand, gameplay wise it'd make sense for me if the Reader did not count, because it would be as if the game rewarded winning all the regular lib rites by allowing you to pick either of the special options (Reader or Oralech) without losing the best ending
Narratively, Oralech doesn't count because he was a wildcard they couldn't rely on (even though he does help!!) but the Reader was very much an active part of the plan so they should count? Idk. Both options make sense to me.
marsh glen
Oh, well, I did send up six Nightwings, exactly! So, I guess the Reader doesn't count.
For me, the exiles that got liberated were Hedwyn, Tamitha (curses!), Rukey, Mae, Jodariel, Sir Gilman, and Pamitha.
I decided to have the Reader stick around in the Downside as I'd been role-playing them as the sort of person who had been dreaming of adventure, and wound up getting unexpectedly trust into it. And I reckoned that there were probably plenty more adventures to be had in the Downside.
timid silo
Aw, a Downside Reader-Ti'zo-Bertrude-Volfred ending is so cute. Especially if Oralech survived, it's such a good bunch!
marsh glen
Yeah, I thought things turned out pretty well for us... except Oralech. Is there a way to prevent his suicide?
(Managed to get the Sandra ending too, so she ended up being another member of the Downside bunch.)
timid silo
I'm sure there is, by virtue of him having extensive Downside endings with Volfred, Ti'zo AND Reader, but I don't know the prerequisites!
torn bolt
yeah it's possible
basically, if he loses, he's dead
if he wins, the reader can choose to either reach out to him, or to manipulate him
using reader powers
in either case, he will offer you his freedom
if you manipulated him, he then kills himself, but if you reached out to him, he lives
.......kinda salty that it's so easy to kill the damn guy, but what do i know
timid silo
Oh cool. So you have to throw the match and reach out...
marsh glen
Ah, a shame that you have to lose the match.
torn bolt
yeah i won my match against him handily so 🤷♂️
timid silo
The situation reminds me of a similar archetype in a Myst game, the character is similarly hopeless and single-minded and there are like nine losing states and just the one where you manage to reach out...
I don't mind it, it strengthens the characterization in both games imho.
unborn copper
Pyre Community Rite Nite (multiplayer Pyre) starts in 45 minutes!
Watch at https://www.twitch.tv/lidsvids and/or join the Rite Club server (https://discord.gg/XHTtNGe) to get involved!
unborn copper
Also, we're considering moving Rite Nites from Sundays to Saturdays, so let us know which day work best for you in this poll! https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/505164873328754688/759856006246170654
^Live now!
tardy radish
they used to, but idk if it's still going on
heavy hill
that was when the game first came onto steam
unfortunately you are several months late for that 
sinful cedar
an announce just popped out on steam
and says up to 2 January
ins't that right?
oh sorry, says 2 Jan 2020
hahaha
an announce just popped out on steam
@sinful cedar this is still correct tho
lime mural
How is this game?
small aspen
niche but super good
lime mural
I love supergiant, but have been on the fence about buying this game.
I heard the sound track was awesome.. (isn't it usually).
small aspen
if you loved all the other games your odds of liking the game are decent
lime mural
Ok.. that's some sound logic. Going to buy now lol.
lime mural
Oh, that's cool.
small aspen
the other half is a sports game
i'm not great at those but the game is really forgiving while still challenging
so if you don't really like sports games it's still a good time
small aspen
good luck have fun be nice to the orb wife
lime mural
Not sure what that means, but I'll keep that in mind when the times comes.
icy ocean
I approve all the watermelon reactions. It's so watermelon 🍉
wild grail
I thought it more as a reflex strategy game, more like. That aspect is what got me into it, after all, heehee!
slim ibex
Does anyone know why i'm getting frame drops to near 40 sometimes 30 while going through text and the map moving? I just bought the game yesterday and i was having the same problem
Hades works fine at 60 for comparison
I'm getting it sometimes and other times it's fine at 60 too it's very odd
It's the only thing that's open besides steam and discord
slim ibex
I think it's fixed now? GeForce Experience app changed fullscreen to borderless and it's not getting any from drops as far as i know
nvm after about 5 minutes it seems to stutter again
as of now i'm getting 30-47 frames just on the level up screen after a Rite. (I apologize if this isn't the correct server to discuss my issue)
i have the least amount of fps issues during the Rite as weird as it sounds
wild grail
I think my favorite version of Never to Return is that bass that sounds in the intro
torn bolt
the best version of never to return is the dissidents' version
change my mind (you can't)
vapid rose
do I have to complete all three Feats of Glory in the same campaign to get the achievement?
sharp rivet
Can you remind me what they are? It’s been over a year since I completed the game
small aspen
the bonus objectives at khaylmer's
sharp rivet
I think that it's in one match but I know I did it in one so I can't say if you can do it spread out
small aspen
it doesn't specify any conditions other than it being done in campaign mode
so no mention of same match or same campaign save
rustic sky
Is there any chance pyre is coming to switch?
lime mural
The team is taking a break after Hades' official launch, so there are no new projects, including ports, for the next couple months, according to the AMA they did recently.
Also from the Noclip documentary they did, they had a lot of work into porting Hades, so I guess it would take a while, unless they outsource it, which is actually the better choice if you ask me
fiery kestrel
Wow I just finished my first supergiant game (Pyre) and I am so wowed by the character design and personalities, lore, and world design. I usually play lots of visual novels and jrpgs so this game was fun and unique. Just wanted to give props to the supergiant team!
vestal bluff
Pyre really is one of a kind
timid silo
Love from the jrpg crowd! \o/ it's such a refreshing change of pace!
sharp rivet
Pyre is such an amazing work of art
eternal gull
I loved hades and since pyre was on sale on the steam store i decided to check it out
Why haven't done this sooner
jagged pebble
how are you liking it so far
eternal gull
Its amazing!
I am about to do the 2nd liberation rite
And I don't know who I should set free because I don't want to lose any of the characters
strong maple
Even among the absolute masterpieces that are the other supergiant games pyre stands out
proud shoal
violet gull
Just found this in Hades; pretty sure that little ball has the pyre logo on it!
Just need to find the transistor and bastion references somewhere now...
onyx forum
its sandra!! :3
mild falcon
Sandra came with the reader when they died?
vestal bluff
The reason you never see the Reader is ‘cause it’s Zag
He brought his Orb Wife with him
That’s why Hades is having so many renovations all the time - it used to be the Downside
heavy hill
the titans are dead...
timid silo
This is cursed and you know it.
timid silo
IMP
timid silo
They're all so great
timid silo
Indeed. I have my top ten but it starts from "really great" tier and only grows from there
timid silo
She's amazing
mild falcon
She deserves better
dark pewter
yes ||like better sister||
timid silo
Alas, guilt that heavy is harsh.
west pollen
ti'zo and *ae are top tier for me for sure
like ti'zo #1 and *ae so close behind him that it's barely a difference
eternal gull
Its gotta be Hedwyn or Sir Gilman for me
hedwyn is so pure especially when he was freed and was thinking if it was okay that he broke his promise to leave together
Literal tears when I freed him
torn bolt
hedwyn is so good...........but so is chae...........
timid silo
My order would be... Volfred Bertrude Sir Gilman Hedwyn Pam *ae Ti'zo Jodi Rukey, I think. With Tariq at 1.5 and Sandra around 4.5
west pollen
i love hedwyn but dude that promise was before we knew the full story, and my reader's life suuuuuucked before, and she got her orbwife and had to look after ti'zo and mae, it's all good
eternal gull
Haha i guess your right
I gotta free the others now!
I just finished the 3rd liberation rite after freeing the original 3
west pollen
i definitely made sure to keep the OG 3 together no matter what, but once the choice at the end came up i knew what had to happen
no ragerts
dark pewter
yeah
without auto aim it will be diff
but
btw
when i was playing in pyre i had "must win" type of thinking so i usualy retry battle if i lose ,but one time i didn't || it was Final battle with Pamitha sister and when she won i didnt retry because Pamitha wanted freedom for her sister||
but i did my best to win
chrome basin
oh yeah
i did that too
I remember pausing the game and being torn over whether i should win or not
dark pewter
I didn't
cause i wanted win but i decide to not retry
(it's not like i love Pamitha or someething DUH)
😛
torn bolt
oh i refused to let her win
sorry, pam, your sister's actively dangerous to everyone including you
chrome basin
[insert sad pamitha here]
torn bolt
listen if pam and tam end up on the same side at the end of the game ||tamitha permanently injures her. like seriously her actions are beyond the pale.||
timid silo
That's Pam's guilt speaking and should not be considered imho. Why does she want her sister's freedom? Because she has an incredibly complicated relationship with Tamitha and feels indebted to her. But Pam herself sold out Tamitha before she could enact a massacre, when push comes to shove.
It makes all the sense in the world for Pam to say those things, but the things people say from a place of great anguish can be profoundly warped and should be seen through that lens...
dark pewter
tsk
lime mural
I think after Pam asked me to let Tam go I immediately liberated Pam.
"Go, little burd. Go find Rukey. I'm keeping you the hell away from your sister."
torn bolt
yeah in my playthrough i liberated pam against the essence
unborn copper
Pyre Community Rite Nite (multiplayer Pyre) starts in an hour and a half (trying it on Saturday this week 
)!
Watch at https://www.twitch.tv/lidsvids and/or join the Rite Club server (https://discord.gg/XHTtNGe) to get involved!
unborn copper
^Live now!
vivid galleon
i need to get back into pyre 🥺
proper hazel
timid silo
NO
mild falcon
weeeeeee
silent mica
My son is trying to gift me Pyre, is it a good game? Love hades and bastion was pretty solid
upbeat sage
it's great, incredibly differant from bastion and transistor gameplay wise
silent mica
ok!
little wyvern
your son has good taste
brisk dove
Story-wise I would rate it the highest among SGG games
faint umbra
Pyre is my favourite SGG game, and probably in my top 3 of all times, although it's been their most divisive game so far, with people either loving it or hating it.
torn bolt
and those people who hate it........are wrong
onyx forum
pyre is the best sgg game (supergiant game game) imo
coarse temple
Ow the edge
fallow spire
what if the entire underworld in hades is actually the downside and we were playing the same thing this entire time
dark pewter
I really appreciate pyre plus i started Play in it when i has visual novel mood
wild grail
I am going to have a heart attack for I require a 3D render of Hedwyn/the Nomad or Savage Raiments
wild grail
I don’t appreciate the lack of reply ;-;
small aspen
unfortunately i can't help you with that
have you considered calling for an ambulance
fallow spire
idk anything about 3d modeling 🥴
lime mural
you want content, go learn. Ive been messing around in FL studios. Dont have time to learn 3d modeling
I use blender
I wanna be a game dev when I’m older
supple solar
Just started Pyre!
Could yall tell me what are the first few tracks leading up to the first actual Rite (the one after the tutorial) so i dont spoil myself because im minestepping the ost and i absolutely love the music already
valid totem
well - that's a delicate subject
because the order in which you hear certain songs is tied to the order in which you meet certain characters
and that in on itself is hard to predict because it depends on a lot of factors
i guess the first few are scripted
as in - the first few rites are always against the set groups of triumvirates but...
eeeeehhh 
what i'm trying to say is - don't bother with looking up songs right now
play the game for a bit and then go looking for the OST
you get an item that lets you listen to already unlocked songs pretty early on
so i'd say wait for that and then use it to track down all the songs on youtube or whatever
supple solar
Me, who's been listening to a song on repeat for 20 minutes: hshdfjf
Alrighty alrighty
heavy hill
iirc the soundtrack goes mostly in order so you are probably thinking of Downside Ballad as at least one if them
because that isn't character specific
valid totem
oh yeah i suppose 
timid silo
The order in which you come across the tracks is definitely all scripted.
valid totem
yea, but...
what if the order in which you meet other triumvirates changes?
they have their own themes
upbeat sage
The ost order is however not the same as the order you hear things in game