h2-builds-and-combat

[sacred storm]

Yes but Zeus sprint is not Aphrodite sprint. They don't share the same properties.

[shy moat]

the text does describe how they work

[sacred storm]

Poseidon only triggers once per sprint period. Hephaestus is on a cooldown. Ares only affects the initial dash.

You can't assume all sprint boons (or other core boons for that matter) operate identically. Read their descriptions.

[brazen wasp]

it says rushing does damage to surrounding foes, i assumed that means the whole time you are rushing. it doesnt say at the start of rushing

[vital ledge]

rush and sprint are two different things. rush = dash = press the button once.
sprint = hold the button down

[sacred storm]

Rushing damages surrounding foes and inflicts Weak, and again once you stop.

[brazen wasp]

oh rush and sprint are not the same thing

that explains it

[sacred storm]

The term rush seems to be their catch-all for just pressing the dash button.

[vital ledge]

the should have called it omega dash 👀

[shy moat]

I will say, for whatever reason, their chosen keywords in this game are quite poor

[brazen wasp]

so how does one play supay, just constantly dash around?

[tough vapor]

doing my first post credits run, I got an insane amount of luck, I got all 3 of these in ephyra, I jusst got 480 gold from a doubled up coin reward lmao
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/996966223902421094/1426659539398168817/image.png?ex=68ec07bc&is=68eab63c&hm=76f81a55f2541ccf68d849848bb4dc0fe51f8af609bd7d23ad01e1bae64e9854&

and its liable to improve thanks to my steady growth

[brazen wasp]

so if i play zeus rush i sprint around if im playing aphro rush i dash around?

[tough vapor]

yes

[tough vapor]

played like trash and died to eris lmao

[junior dome]

anyone know if 'freezer burn' damage reported at end of a run is the amount of damage done each time scorch was expended by freezer burn, or just the extra damage from the 200% multiplier freezer burn applies?

[versed marlin]

Best Artemis aspect build?

[past mist]

the former

[past mist]

can't comment on 'the best' not up to date on the meta anymore. you can either use the crit to make some big omega attacks, or you can just play it as normal knives with a block and crit chance. both works. the former means something like hera attack and hammers that help out the omega attack, maybe with fine line and weed killer and similar. the other is poseidon or hestia attack. if hestia attack, getting demeter cast and abusing freezer burn is an excellent tactic

aspect of artemis is pretty strong nearly whatever you do

[stable herald]

btw Artemis knives crit chance applies to all three Trick Knives while only expending the one charge

[versed marlin]

Which god has weed killer?

[past mist]

dem

[civic salmon]

are there any purchases from dora that are locked behind other purchases? I'm just wondering if it's worth it buying everything currently lol

[versed marlin]

#h2-for-new-players

[past mist]

weed killer is the only omega-enhancing thing that gives you %damager on O-Attack, which means you could use this even if you're on the hestia/dem stuff

to get beefy omega attacks

[versed marlin]

And I would spam omega attack even after I Ripost?

[past mist]

the attacks after ripost are the best time to attack. outside of that period, you use your best judgement based on enemies and the boons you've picked up. hera attack for example means it's useful to go touching a bunch of enemies instead of nuking individual ones, and the hestia build wants to hit things to scorch

on the hestia build, you don't continue attacking

crit doesn't really help scorch damage, which is why you might want to omega attack in the ripost period

[wet pawn]

What are the requirements for Ares to appear on a new save?

[vital ledge]

reach the final boss of the surface ^

[wet pawn]

ffs thats terrible

[stray shore]

can someone tell me like a regular fate whim build? like in what order use my keepsake and what arcanas to use ?

[empty moat]

Chat what's the best boons for Thanatos aspect ?

[past mist]

hera attack like most aspects

[past mist]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005263281730105504/1426666461837000714/image.png?ex=68ec0e2e&is=68eabcae&hm=6f3dc65410d921ec8bccff1a9479df9c2439b49d3057b8c5e1b89cf9dd77e6e2&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=808&height=1110

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005263281730105504/1426666462445178952/image.png?ex=68ec0e2e&is=68eabcae&hm=1ec47140045879b168890df5d6a26c3326234b0dc0590038178a8a01abd86a97&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=758&height=1110

these are the two i use, depending on stuff. DD+strength is a bit weird but i enjoy it

as for keepsakes, jeweled pom/calling card/time piece/whatever if you're in the underworld. surface, you might want to switch calling card and time piece

also generally, any keepsake except jeweled pom can be easily replaced with other things as needed

[signal coral]

I prefer going across the middle row for divinity and then picking the remaining stuff based on what the weapon needs

obviously stuff like furies, persistence, are always on

but generally you get to enable one of boatman/excellence depending on how you're feeling

and you can situationally take eternity, huntress, artificer, etc. based on what the weapon likes

artificer is notably a lot better in underworld than on surface

so you might want to adjust your arcana based on the route you want to take

[vital ledge]

I like how you didn't mention the unseen 😛
it just doesn't exist, there is an empty space on the board

[signal coral]

unseen is just awful for 5 grasp imo

its basically just +1 boon and thats it

[past mist]

you can pick unseen for 5 grasp, or you can pick up a gain boon

[vital ledge]

no idea what they could do to make it "not suck" though.

[past mist]

cost 2 or 3

[split igloo]

try vow of void3/judgment + denial is pretty interesting and annoying at same time while activating divinity via last column so no strength no nothing lol i kill rival chronos for first time with this lol

[signal coral]

they would need to rework it entirely imo

[vital ledge]

still wouldn't take it, even if it was 2

[stray shore]

thank you all for the tips!

[past mist]

oops

oh, yeah judgement is definitely a valid choice for fates' whim too, although i think judgement can f up your fates whim

[signal coral]

judgement will never select a reroll card if you have fates whim enabled

[split igloo]

i only play 3 runs with it so far and for some reason im never drawing reroll yea

[signal coral]

its hard coded to not accidentally disable fates whim

[split igloo]

makes sense

[vital ledge]

thought about swapping the positions with the boatman. then you would at least be forced to take it to get more rerolls hah.

[past mist]

huh did not know that, that's sweet

[vital ledge]

cost of 2 for the unseen might have some use cases thinking about it a bit more.
if you don't want the slowdown and spam a single omega, then it is a good way to get the selene card.
but yeah.. bunch of IFs

[stable herald]

Unseen doesn't activate Moon

Unseen is filler for chaos trials, Judgement/Circe rolls, and for players that don't have/haven't learned that other cards are better

Or really weird edge cases that aren't "meta"

[vital ledge]

it does

[stable herald]

imo it's okay and unavoidable for some cards to simply be worse than others

[stable herald]

Really? Is that another 1.0 change I didn't know or am I majorly tripping?

[vital ledge]

not sure if it's a 1.0 change
https://ibb.co/Q3TCDYRP

[signal coral]

im pretty sure it always worked that way?

but nobody takes unseen

[brazen wasp]

gotta say although i beat typhon with it im not a big fan of supay or im just not a big fan of aphro rush on it. sorta feels weird with supays hammer thst rewards sprinting if i have to dash all the time. imo feels counterintuitive

[rain wagon]

If I wanted to activate The Moon, I'd just take Night, even if I don't use Ω Combos

[slim escarp]

Must be renamed then
From unseen to
Seen but not taken or
Unchosen

[rain wagon]

Unseen is irredeemably terrible

[vital ledge]

just looking at my screenshot hurts. like.. I deactivated the lovers and 40 hp/mp just for that. why would you want to do this.

[rain wagon]

Perseverance helps better with Magicka than Unseen....

[chilly swift]

In the all-random chaos trials, is your keepsake randomized for each region or just the first one?

[signal coral]

each region

usually the biggest run ender is if you roll antler and you are bad

which also makes taking safety boons (heph, demeter, dodge chance, lovers arcana) slightly better on the off chance you get random antler

[zealous sundial]

Unseen is hilarious since it’s at best inefficient and at worst actively detrimental (Huntress)

[sudden belfry]

bit of a silly question but which boons are % boons?

[cosmic steppe]

if i put it outside of context i seem to be quite mad

bc "it" in question is that i took carnal pleasure over heinous on medea

[strong mesa]

hades auto aim target the boss instead of a random mob offscreen challenge (impossible)

[cosmic steppe]

but the context is that i had ares regen and possessed array and it was right before typhon

with no succ rate it was mathematically correct option right?

[cosmic steppe]

attack/special from aphro, apollo, ares, hera, demeter

[opal seal]

whats a good build for circe staff?

[signal coral]

zeus cast + double strike + anything

take raki as your companion

vs bosses you will have double zeus cast ticking on them which does huge damage

figure out some way to clear regular rooms (fairly easy)

[opal seal]

so other gods dont really matter or what? any duo boons or anything i should look out for?

[visual ermine]

Does freeze only proc origination while the freezing is in effect? So it'll only proc origination 2 seconds out of 10?

[signal coral]

zeus has a lot of good duos so you can kind of just take whatever and vibe it out

[torn plinth]

Add Apollo n demeter

[signal coral]

if you have the boon list just open it up, pick something that looks good, and try to build towards it

[strong mesa]

hestia is a good backup cast too

[torn plinth]

The gust + cast size increase will help u clear rooms

[sudden belfry]

just beat typhon w eos wow
one of my easiest runs ever

[opal seal]

does winners circle make casts deal damage faster or just shorten the duration?

[visual ermine]

I'm testing the freeze + other curse origination, seems the freeze leaves another curse to mark it can't be freezed again and that enables origination?

[clear crest]

any specific boons are good on morrigan?

[stray notch]

is there a build that uses fire away from hestia?
I was thinking to use it with the charon axe but I'm not 100% sure

[opal seal]

as in gust on cast or what?

[spiral wadi]

it's not really worth building around fire away tbh lmao

like if ur building around hestia cast u'd ideally just get blitz on atk/spec and get thermal dynamics for scorch

[steep galleon]

Man I just don't enjoy rival cerb at all

[fallow oracle]

Snuffed candle goated for bosses or nah?

[steep galleon]

A lot of bs in that fight and your best bet is to have enough dps to nuke him fast enough so he doesn't start pulling the bs moves

[opal seal]

most of his moves are quite easy to dodge imo apart from the huge aoe slams

[spiral wadi]

eh, i mean it technically works but snuffed candle is like x7 distance of aphro nearby, meaning basically if at least one enemy is on screen then snuffed candle is bricked

hecate's ghosts also count towards removing snuffed candle

[torn plinth]

Yea get cast boons

[spiral wadi]

tldr snuffed candle is ass never use it

[meager wadi]

so lets say im playing witch staff normal atk build, would I want something like scorch on my special to just weave it in and keep uptime instead it being on my atk,

also would i want blitz on my special with that logic too

[cerulean panther]

Scorch wants many rapid hits to build up a stack. Blitz would be a better option, or Hephaestus.

[meager wadi]

oh maybe i misunderstood scorch

so if my boon says attacks inflict scorch, scorch dmg 60

each hit builds it up to a maximum of i think 999?

[pure grove]

The scorch expires as it deals damage

And it deals damage/expires at a rate of 60/second

[meager wadi]

so in the example i used with with staff atk build, it still wouldnt be ideal since its not a %bonus modifier

[civic salmon]

does re-rolling the run make a chaos spawn possible?

[keen lotus]

What boons and hammers work well with Aspect of Mel Skull?

[tall notch]

bolstered array hera attack is a banger

[clear crest]

in my experience hestia cast is incredible on circe

[spiral wadi]

yea smolder ring is really fun to play with

[peak urchin]

best boons for selene's coat

[viral yew]

Ares special, go for godsent hex, and pos attack, aim for arterial spray and the legendary

[dawn niche]

Quick question: since i tried playing with the jeweled pom, i seem to get howling soul probably 8/10 times and the boon itself feels significantly worse than it did in EA. Were there any changes? I flies off into directions i didnt throw it in, misses enemies directly in its path and overall just feels kinda bulky

[brazen wasp]

Whats a good god to pair with poseidon rush on supay

[opal seal]

do i need to unlock godsent hex or do they just have certain requirements?

[viral yew]

Ah, it's something you need to unlock i believe

[viral yew]

Hera special

[brazen wasp]

iirc no

[viral yew]

Is it available on rip?

[brazen wasp]

rip meaning what?

[viral yew]

As in you can always get it and it's not unlocked

[brazen wasp]

ya afaik

[brazen wasp]

what about zeus

[viral yew]

I would put zeus on attack/special, just depends what gods you get

[hard plover]

What’s the best hidden aspect in y’all’s opinion?

[dawn niche]

atm anubis but i feel like it'll get nerved in a couple of weeks. Hestia's attack, hera's rush and a demeter's cast on anubis is able to melt pretty much any enemy with little to no effort. Just make sure to pick an attack that deals flat damage instead of a damage increase and you're good.

[viral yew]

Supay

Or morrigan

Shiva still my goat tho

[vital ledge]

shiva. really enjoying that one for some reason and I don't even use the omega attack

bouncy omega special actually hitting things? yes please!
but I guess all of them are good. don't like nergal, but it isn't bad in any way.

[viral yew]

The omega attack is only really good for bosses, cause most of the time you kill everything in the time it takes to charge and then use the oattack

[glass bone]

Morrigan, though I come from a “minority opinion”, because I do high fear (50-62).
In this context, Morrigan is best because the weaknesses of this aspect are the least compared to the other hidden aspects

Anubis and Morrigan are really close, but I do like the burst option of Morrigan’s Blood Triad

[viral yew]

Morrigan also has ridiculously high base damage which is good for high fear

[vital ledge]

the way the hidden aspects scale with their level could need some work though...
nergal level 1. try getting into berserk. completely worthless before it is maxed.
shiva level 1 barely does anything

[viral yew]

I mean they're not hard to upgrade

[steep galleon]

honestly I don't use weapons til I upgraded them to lv 5

no point

[stoic fable]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[opal seal]

do yall use different arcana setups for different weapons and aspects?

[glass bone]

Yes. Charon’s explosion count for stuff like Local Climate, Geyser Spout, Prominance Flare, etc.

[dawn niche]

i mostly base it on the keepsakes i plan on using unless i'm doing high-heat, then ill adapt

[glass bone]

Yes. I’ll take Huntress, Night, Unseen, Strength, or Eternity depending on the aspect and context of the run.

[vast turret]

Yes. Also depending on the keepsake you want to start with.

[opal seal]

why depending on keepsakes?

[dawn niche]

some of the keepsakes, like the jeweled pom require you to have no dice

[glass bone]

Because there are late game keepsakes that fundamentally changes how you want to do the arcana setup

[vast turret]

Yep. There's a new mechanic on the 3 end game keepsakes.

But for general runs. I have a saved template. Pretty standard.

[steep galleon]

Eternity for which?

[glass bone]

That’s the one I’m least certain on….

[vast turret]

You can do without eternity though. Those 3 points are very crucial in high fear. Better allocated in Lovers or Artificer.

[glass bone]

The actual last example I should have provided is Excellence (trade out the Unseen / Boatman slot).

I am currently rotating Surface 62 ideas, and the speedrun discord told me conflicting opinions on Eternity Charon 62

[steep galleon]

I have been playing with excellence lately and have been enjoying it, I think it will be my regular on both routes

[glass bone]

I have done Charon 62 UW without Eternity, but the Surface has been… certainly an experience…

[steep galleon]

Fates whim setup

[signal coral]

it shortens the duration of your cast
so poseidon and apollo and ares casts benefit from it because those boons just do one hit per cast so more casts = more damage
most casts that do damage over time get their damage cut proportionally since they don't last the whole time anymore, except heph cast which still does full damage even if it expires early (so winner's circle works well with heph cast)

also obviously winner's circle works super well with omega cast boons

[steep galleon]

Though I need to experiment how it looks like with hubris 2 on magic heavy aspects, if it's too much to bear I'll have to switch to boatman

[glass bone]

I’m a little less certain on Ares, but you can also add Hephaestus and Hera to the list of good cast boons with WC.

[signal coral]

yeah I mentioned heph, forgot to add hera

[glass bone]

The other thing WC does, is more damage via the Ranged Casts

So… Glowing Coal, Lightning Lance, Tipsy Shot, and Howling Soul are theoretical damage ups with WC

[signal coral]

yeah i took winners circle with hades cast + storm ring, I think that was positive even though I normally would not pick it with storm ring

at the very least being able to move the storm ring around a lot did a lot for room clear

[steep galleon]

Winners circle with glowing coal ares hestia duo is definitely something I should test

[signal coral]

im not sure if that helps that much actually

since wounds can only be reapplied every 3 seconds, no?

[steep galleon]

Yeah it applies wounds...

[signal coral]

though I guess if you miss then winner's circle helps you shoot again a lot faster

[shy moat]

it just hates everyone 🙁

[signal coral]

howling soul is wonky because it autoaims in the direction you are facing and also has slight tracking on it

unlike other cast boons which let you hold the button to aim them

[glass bone]

I don’t think there were any patch notes related to Howling Soul, and Pom should give each boon at an equal chance (though iirc, Last Gasp is not pulled from the options)

[shy moat]

it's wonky because it will pick a target to track towards that's nowhere close to where it launches or nearest by distance

[signal coral]

usually with howling sould i just hug the enemy I want to hit with it

[steep galleon]

Honestly howling soul should have just been a ranged cast with no auto tracking nonsense

Would have been much better

[shy moat]

they just need to fix the tracking

Hel omega special has the same issue

[craggy hull]

Can't you aim howling soul?

[shy moat]

you can point it in a certain direction then it will yeet off wherever it wants. Usually to the lower right of the screen.

...wait is the dumb thing tracking a hidden mouse cursor that happens to be near an enemy?

[craggy hull]

I feel like it's pretty consistent for me if I take the time to aim it but I could be wrong. I don't pick it very often

in non boss encounters it kinda justs goes off screen

[shy moat]

...okay so it doesn't work for you either 😛

[craggy hull]

maybe but I would have to use it more. I think I've had it less than 10 times

[shy moat]

given it's supposed to home in and plant itself in an enemy, unless you're whiffing it into nowhere it shouldn't ever just go off screen

[signal coral]

in non boss encounters I usually just get really close to the enemy before shooting it

its turn rate is pretty bad so even if it starts tracking another enemy it will still run into the enemy I want it to hit

[wild citrus]

Hi, so I've been struggling to beat Olympus at just 10+ fear with the black coat. What would yall recommend is its best form and boons to use it with

[shy moat]

I'm afraid "Use the ranged cast point blank to avoid it intentionally dodging the target directly ahead of you" isn't ... great.

Yeah, sure, that makes it work 😛 But it doesn't work right.

[shy moat]

my best success was with a good scorch on special then into freezer burn, though just getting faster burn rate would work okay too -- quick omega special -> 8 hits over and over

Or the increasing damage per rocket on the same target hammer and then a good % base

that's just using one of the first two aspects

I am ... not great with the coat. Need to use its melee more, I'm sure.

[signal coral]

I mean you can sort of treat it as just regular cast but comes with free damage

your normal cast is melee range anyways and if you're using it for dps you already need to get used to putting it down close to enemies

[shy moat]

functions differently, and it really defeats the point when all it needs to do is just lock on to whatever is dead ahead

me trying to hit Hecate in the middle while it veers almost 180 to go down and hit the fake one that's barely on screen in the corner

[clear crest]

thoughts on anubis?

[compact ginkgo]

wow i desperately need help on the || typhon tail || miniboss fight. i was doing full health and then lost 2 dds on it. x_x how do i handle the sacs on the ground?? it seems like they instantly pop and do dmg when i run over them but they cover the whole area and i can't get out or dodge while i'm in them... also how am i supposed to dodge the kamehameha attack? x_x

[viral yew]

You can sprint past the sacs, or wait for the tail to pop them, and for the area attack, you can run behind the tail

[compact ginkgo]

so dashing pops them but sprinting doesnt?

[viral yew]

Sprinting still pops them but you should be out of range

[compact ginkgo]

also does || typon's health bar remain || hidden forever? or can i incant smth to see that

[compact ginkgo]

oh for some reason the dmg seemed instant. ok good to know

[signal coral]

for the big laser attack, if you notice the tail randomly start running away from you it is that attack

you should run after the tail and get behind it

[shy moat]

range attack the sacs, run away/dodging when it's chasing you stabbing, the rest of the time just free dps it (dodge across the shockwaves as they come)

It's by far the easiest miniboss once you get the patterns, zero damage no problem

[compact ginkgo]

doesn't it also run away for the wall attack? can i also stand behind for that?

[signal coral]

all its other attacks cause it to try and stick close to you so its really obvious when it suddenly just disappears

what wall attack?

[compact ginkgo]

the one where it throws a wall at u from far away

[shy moat]

chase it and stand behind it

[signal coral]

thats the big laser

[compact ginkgo]

like a wall of red dmg

oh hm 🤔 i thought there were two types where it runs away, maybe i didn't see propelry lol

[shy moat]

always stay near it is the secret.

Just, dodge away when it tries to stab, it'll do that like 4 times in a row.

[compact ginkgo]

does it telegraph when it does the ground slam? with the two rings that expand and contract

[meager wadi]

what is so strong about trick knives? is it just the most dps i feel like those kinds of builds would be spamming omega special

[signal coral]

uh, it has the move where it spawns sacs on the ground, one where it stabs the ground and you have to dodge rings, the move where it tries to bite you 5 times, and then the big move where it charges the laser

[shy moat]

they take a while to spawn out from it so you'll have plenty of time to notice the rings

[signal coral]

that hammer is broken, you can just spam dash attacks and you do a ton of damage

omega special takes a long time to charge

[meager wadi]

what should i be aiming for on pan knives then, pos special then what

[signal coral]

dash attacks are much faster to do and also they hit 7 times (one for the dash attack, 6 times for the three knives)

[compact ginkgo]

should i run away when it does the sac attack

[shy moat]

no, that's free damage on it while it's embedded in the ground

[compact ginkgo]

o

[signal coral]

im pretty sure it has a touch hitbox during that attack so it can get a bit awkward if you are playing a weapon like medea

but if your aspect has some range its free damage

[signal coral]

you can't guarantee what hammer you get so just build it like normal

and if you get trick knives its great

[compact ginkgo]

i feel like i try to attack it but get hit by the sacs x_x im using skulls and im trying to charge special into my autos

[shy moat]

oh that's the touch hitbox Silly mentioned probably

[compact ginkgo]

o what does that mean?

[shy moat]

you'd want to just sit back a little ways and use omega attack on it then

it means it hurts you if you touch it while it's throwing out the sacs

[meager wadi]

ya whats the normal build is what im askin

[shy moat]

also during the sacs, if some are in the way where you want to dodge when it tries to bite you later, attack them with something ranged (For skulls use omega attack for instance) to clear out the sacs ahead of time

[compact ginkgo]

ok i will try lol

usually just panicking cuz there's too much stuff going on lol

[signal coral]

poseidon special, aim for slippery slope + legendary
find a cast with a status effect to enable origination

hammers that buff specials are obviously the good ones
trick knives is broken but you will have to get used to the playstyle if you see it, as it is not the same as regular pan

[shy moat]

mostly just don't panic, Silly listed the four attacks it has and the only one that it really moves around for is when it tries to bite you the five times

Otherwise just stay close to it and hit it when it's not moving.

[compact ginkgo]

ok thanks friends 😭 time to try again i guess

[shy moat]

watch you'll get the other miniboss next run anyway >.>

[compact ginkgo]

i haven't seen the eye yet rip

[shy moat]

it feels harder to me

[compact ginkgo]

i've done olympus 4 times and each time it's the tail x_x

[signal coral]

eye is a lot easier if your damage is high

[compact ginkgo]

eh? shouldn't they both be easier if dmg is high

[signal coral]

its basically the same as the boss, big enemy that doesn't move so if your damage is high it just dies before it can do anything threatening

the tail moves around and during some attacks its not safe for many weapons to dps

[shy moat]

I'm pretty sure you live in a different world

[signal coral]

whereas the eye is stationary and as long as you can dodge the random garbage on the screen it just dies

[compact ginkgo]

ohh ok i see. dammit wish i saw the stupid eye lol

[shy moat]

I've never had damage so high I just killed the eye without it doing anything >.>

[signal coral]

i mean you have to dodge a little bit but that fight is very fast

[shy moat]

but the tail is so easy to just be patient with because I'm not playing with a timer

[compact ginkgo]

whats the timer?

[shy moat]

optional challenge thing for difficulty

[stable herald]

Apollo Lunar Ray is the best versus summit minibosses

Who would win, giant eye or giant laser pointer

[compact ginkgo]

ur not invicible in lunar ray right?

i can't figure out how to use that effectively without getting hit

[shy moat]

interrupt it mostly

It works when:

• Your weapon is lacking range so you just want to burn something down that's out of reach
• Upgraded to give you armor so you can just soak one hit (Armor will break but absorb one big hit)
• Upgraded so it fires from where you start it and you're free to move away and keep doing other things

So it's pretty reliant on upgrading to be good

[compact ginkgo]

ah yeah makes sense lol...on its own i feel p mid about it

[stable herald]

You aren't but there's a path of stars upgrade that gives you temp armor

Unupgraded, just bail because it's easy to recharge. If it's godsent, facetank because you will win the damage trade

[signal coral]

the armor path of stars is quite good because you can always facetank one hit with it and then cancel afterwards

quick eye fight example, might not be super indicative of things but its a pretty fast fight on average

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1377540616690597908/1426741840085782669/eye.mp4?ex=68ec5462&is=68eb02e2&hm=72aec29b43d9555e6d3aafe239a38bd1eb6969ce02b730216f47026838693994&

unfortunately this was a bad attempt at speedrunning so in a real run you will do, you probably won't kill as fast
but also in a real run you have some time to go a bit slower and will probably have more than 30 hp

so you can just like, move backwards, lose a bit of dps, and not take damage from the falling balls attack

I would say in a regular run my eye fights are like maybe 15-20 seconds, give or take? maybe slightly longer if my damage is a bit worse
so you don't have to dodge patterns for that long
main thing imo is just learning how to kite the rolling eyeball, which the video above shows off

[shy moat]

main thing imo is just learning how to kite the rolling eyeball
HEX IT INTO A SHEEP

[compact ginkgo]

what the fk 30hp looool

[signal coral]

its a speedrun attempt so unfortunately antler in the last region is required

I have died to the boss so many times because of it

[compact ginkgo]

i would never lol

[shy moat]

Silly lives in a different world 😉

[wild citrus]

ohh ill try that. been using nyx cause its the prettiest. May try shiva next ^^

[glass bone]

In my experience, you don’t need Freezer Burn on Nyx. You could also take Pyro Technique and Pom that.

[stable herald]

Scorch attack + Exhaust Riser on coat is really effective too for Freezer Burn

[shy moat]

scorch doesn't play well with shiva btw, you'd want a more standard damage build for that

[signal coral]

Typically when I play coat I look to pick a hex and get boons that increase mana usage

Meleeing bosses can sometimes be unsafe so I use hex to supplement my dps there

But also o special doesn't charge hex well without mana increases

But is spammable and charges quickly when you do have those increases

For room clear i rely more on attacks with special cancels

[waxen gorge]

whats a good axe build for typhon? i need to beat him with it for the fated list

[signal coral]

Depends on the axe

Pick your favorite and I can give you a build

[narrow bramble]

does zag fight unpause tiumer?

[signal coral]

zag will run your timer

[narrow bramble]

grr

[signal coral]

if you're running timer 3 sometimes it can get a bit tight

timer 2 you should have plenty of time if you are used to going fast

[narrow bramble]

doing a speedrun and it popped up and wondered if it had any implcations for free shop items (but ya also time 3)

[signal coral]

uh technically zag skips a room

but usually the zag fight is slower

[shy moat]

I've had the best luck with charon due to the range focus

[signal coral]

however if you have giga damage and are also on thessaly it can be faster than a regular boat with multiple encounters on it

[narrow bramble]

also: chaos gate vs arachne narc etc, which is better? idk how chaos gates work

when choosing room for speedrun

[signal coral]

chaos gates are a room skip, just like arachne/narc

I tend to find the other room skips better since sometimes chaos forces you into a bad curse

[narrow bramble]

so in all it doesnt matter unless ur early on then you should gate bc you could getarach narc on the later half?

ooo good point

[signal coral]

well the npc can only show up once

[narrow bramble]

o gotcha so njpc first then chaos if i were lucky

[signal coral]

so if you are choosing between chaos vs npc you thats your only choice

chaos also has a cooldown for how often he can spawn

[narrow bramble]

gotchaaa

[signal coral]

so you get 1 skip either way

[narrow bramble]

does that include the item that spawns him for zero health

[signal coral]

no

[narrow bramble]

i forget what its called

[signal coral]

if its chaos vs regular room, of course take chaos because its a room skip
but chaos vs an npc room you have to pick what you think is more valuable to the future of the run

[narrow bramble]

tysm!

[sudden belfry]

doing another selene run, is ares considered ok for attack or would a different god be better?

[signal coral]

ares is very good on selene

he unlocks the godsent hex so you probably want to pick one of his boons

[brazen echo]

I don't like Ares being on a core boon because you're already getting wound on your hex anyway but without wounds Ares's cores are doodooo

[signal coral]

you really want ares attack/special

[brazen echo]

and by cores i mean attack/special

eeeeh i disagree

[signal coral]

to unlock grievous blow, since its like the best ares boon by a wide margin

if you are taking ares anyways for the godsent you really want the one good boon

[brazen echo]

i prefer getting cut above orr just the cast even

[sudden belfry]

i was gonna go w cast but hmm

[signal coral]

grievous blow is the best ares boon by a wide margin, i cant imagine starting ares and intentionally skipping it

[sudden belfry]

what does it do again?

[brazen echo]

i don't start ares

[signal coral]

chance to do double damage to wounded enemies

notably this double damage is multiplicative, unlike most boons which are additive

[sudden belfry]

ahh
hmmm
i think ill go for that some other time, i wanna go for a different build for attack/special
something other than my usual freezer burn lol

[brazen echo]

but fair enough ig

i think you put ares on attack and apollo on special

and then just spam omega special

[signal coral]

I tend to put ares on special because it helps with room clear

can just sweep your o-special across the room and apply wounds to multiple enemies at once

but he works "okay" on either attack or special

you are really only taking him for the godsent unlock + grievous blow

[brazen echo]

i kinda dont like the targeting reticle without apollo

[signal coral]

apollo kind of mediocre on selene imo

[brazen echo]

coat's omegas are just kinda bad i fear

[signal coral]

o-special + hex is fine but you need a boon that increases magick cost on it

which apollo does not have

[brazen echo]

I will say though, hexes have come a long way in hades 2

[edgy nacelle]

oh if this is abt selene coat
personally I like poseidon or hestia on Ω special 🤷
neither one really benefits from the hex boosting Ω damage, but both have good ares duos (and hestia's can involve increasing the magick cost of Ω special too, + poseidon has a boon that does that)
I don't play it a ton so I'm no expert, but that's what feels most fun/consistent to me

[brazen echo]

i remember early on that i more or less just skip selene whenever possible

[sudden belfry]

since im skipping ares attack rn, what should i put on attack instead

hmmm
you werent on that moon water⁉️

not going for omega attack, just regular use

[brazen echo]

i thought it was the only good one at the time 😭

[signal coral]

yeah I find that the most consistent selene coat runs I have involve something that makes o-special use more magick
hera, hestia, poseidon sort of

though I also just play that weapon casually

[brazen echo]

also helps that way more weapons care about using their omegas now

compared to early on

[edgy nacelle]

I'd use Hera on it a lot more (esp for born gain) I just don't like her duo with Ares for Selene which makes her feel kinda bad to take. I should prob just get over that tho lol

[signal coral]

i dont really value the duo stuff that highly

just fine line + born gain + hex spam is enough for my runs

[edgy nacelle]

I should value it less, I think I just feel bad taking two gods who don't "go together" in my head lol. but I love hera, should take her more anyway

[calm maple]

Does possessed array require a full 25 magick left in the meter to activate?

Or can it activate when you only have like 5 left in the tank?

[edgy nacelle]

I believe you need the full 25, so if you want to sustain it you need enough magick regen

[prisma needle]

how come sometimes when I do medea attack > special spam
my special doesnt come out

i think its cuz I pressed special too soon after the previous special right

im pretty sure theres some amount of lockout time

[narrow bramble]

is chaos gate worth on speedruns in tartarus

[edgy nacelle]

in tartarus probably no, since idt it counts as "progress" so it isn't saving time
chaos is worth it since it usually counts as a full room, but you can finish it in seconds
in tartarus you only make progress towards chronos if you take the numbered doors, so even the few seconds it takes to see chaos is likely a time loss

[narrow bramble]

thought so after my last run, took a chaos and realizeed it didnt progress but had to make sure, ty!!

[meager wadi]

whats the typical twin blades builds for just aspect of mel

general stuff?

[lime moth]

Bro, the achievement where you gotta reach Chronos with an Arachne is genuinely wth 💀

[brazen echo]

Question for the Nergal enjoyers out there: do you guys prefer going the buffing the attack power route (secret crush, weed killer) or the flat damage route (fine line, ocean swell, etc)

it's weird because omegas often but also you stay in that omega for a while

[rugged moon]

I dont tend to use omegas on nergal

[edgy nacelle]

it's not too bad tbh, just take one of her dresses w rly high starting armor + silken sash + get hephaestus in your pool and play slow and safe at 0 fear
you can get a crazy amount of armor

[rugged moon]

Im a heph legendary stan for nergal

[edgy nacelle]

I never go with fine line/ocean swell, personally, those will only proc once per omega and your spin lasts a long time
if I'm playing omegas I'd rather fish for hammers + get stuff like apollo legendary, weed killer as you said, icarus "your omega moves do 50 damage when they hit," uhhh maybe cut above, idk, stuff that can retrigger while you're still spinning

[brazen echo]

cut above can trigger while you spin?

damn

[edgy nacelle]

it should...? hm, I'd have to check, the wording is vague.
but they trigger when a foe is struck, not when you use an Ω move in the first place
a new blade can't appear until the old one is gone but tbh I've never tried them on axe come to think of it

[sage flame]

i wanna say it can retrigger if you spin long enough

esp with coffin nail existing

[lime moth]

Imma try that...

I'm trying to be a sweat now that I'm done with the story and get all the achievements

[edgy nacelle]

throw in Gale too if you want!

• stuff like nitro boost, lovers, snow queen, athena boons like mental block for extra i-frames... there are a lot of ways to ignore damage lol. dodge too! good luck

[lime moth]

Any weapon in particular?

[sterile pumice]

anyone know any good duo boons for medea

[edgy nacelle]

uhhh hm.
something safe, your goal is to avoid getting hit so you keep your armor as much as possible. so use whatever you're comfortable with! ranged + cast builds are fairly safe, and persephone skull is invulnerable during Ω special which is nice?
also forgot to mention freeze, great for avoiding damage to your armor

[uneven palm]

Lotta stuff is good on attack: Poseidon, Hestia, Aphro, Apollo. You can start with Zeus special and add whatever on attack later too. Wicked Onslaught and Trick Knives are the best hammers

[dire shell]

Blitz on a primary damage style. Ever worth it?

[edgy nacelle]

fairly often, yeah, blitz is just really good 🤷
idk if I'd take it on everything but you can always make it work
if you're dealing enough damage it procs near instantly, in which case you want to constantly reapply it

[uneven palm]

Blitz pretty much never bad

[dire shell]

Has anyone noticed that the staff attack hitbox doesn’t match the animation at all? It’s very annoying.

[meager wadi]

what about for a special builds

[uneven palm]

Zeus still good, Aphro/Apollo/Hera special with like Trick Knives or Reaper Knives is very strong

[sterile pumice]

anyone know any good duo boons for aspect of medea

[uneven palm]

Heinous Affront (Ares-Zeus)

[signal coral]

im pretty sure you can start zeus special on medea and just vibe it out and you will have a good build

like literally every zeus duo is at the very least fairly strong

except zeus + apollo

and the better ones can be game winning by themselves

[edgy nacelle]

zeus duos in general 🤷
heinous affront is my favorite, maybe thermal dynamics or killer current if you get hestia/poseidon cast, master conductor ig, king's ransom if you can spare your hera boons
romantic spark and hail storm too, no bad ones other than apollo lol

[meager wadi]

what god is "bad" or just worse on avg

[signal coral]

imo kings ransom is actually just the strongest duo in the game if you have a good setup for it

can just ignore your aspect and do lightning things and everything dies

[lime moth]

Or Queen's ransom, they're both cracked

[signal coral]

queens ransom is harder to make work imo

[edgy nacelle]

imo king's >>>> queen's and it's not rly close
zeus just has waaaay more things that scale well with it

[signal coral]

zeus specifically goes giga hard with a billion pom levels because flat damage scales better with poms and also double strike is built in multiplicative scaling for lightning boons

[edgy nacelle]

queens can be very good, but the situations where it is are niche
and also losing hitch on a build is way less painful than losing blitz lol, idk

[signal coral]

the queens ransom dream is juicing hereditary bane to +20 or more

it can cause hitch damage transfer to go above 100%

[edgy nacelle]

ooooh yes
also moros fine lines born gain ransom is fun in general 🤷
supay nexus ransom sounds silly altho not exactly practical, same with rousing reception

[signal coral]

in general though kings ransom can lead to some extremely highroll builds where you can completely ignore the weapon and just play the lightning gimmick

[edgy nacelle]

here's a thought experiment: if every god had a ransom duo, which ones would benefit the most from it?
like, heph probably to just get all 3 blasts to 2 seconds ig

[signal coral]

zeus

[craggy spear]

I still think Aphro + melinoe aspect on lim and oros is one of the most powerful things you can get for it

[signal coral]

double strike is just too good of a secondary boon to be receiving 20+ poms

[edgy nacelle]

I mean yes but if gods that don't already have ransom got to benefit, who would it be best on lol, zeus is prob the best beneficiary of it but also not rly what I was asking

like for instance, I could see hestia going kind of crazy with +24 levels on pyro technique, in a hypothetical where that was possible

[signal coral]

its still zeus imo

[craggy spear]

I think its Aphro

[signal coral]

my point is that double strike being build in multiplicative damage is very strong since you get poms on your core as well as double strike

[craggy spear]

because I'm very heavily biased towards her writing

[signal coral]

i could see apollo maybe but it depends on the pom scaling on extra dose

iirc extra dose pom scaling isnt too good

[edgy nacelle]

I agree!
I was just aiming for the thought experiment of "which god that doesn't have it would benefit the most" for fun, ik why zeus is strong with it but that's not a thought experiment that's just reality lol

[signal coral]

maybe heph, maybe apollo, idk

heph is the obvious answer because blasts but he doesnt benefit from poms past like the 5-10 mark

whereas with ransom you are often getting to 20ish

you really want a god that has multiplicative scaling in their kit

actually maybe the answer is secretly ares

i forget how good the pom scaling is on grievous

[edgy nacelle]

yeah, I think with heph the upside would mainly be hitting multiple blast boons at once, but you'd max out the benefits very early
and oooooh yes ares actually has a lot of stuff that would work well... I was still thinking pyro technique but 👀 grievous + mutual would go very hard

[signal coral]

so I would say either ares or apollo depending on how their pom scaling is on their multiplicative secondary

could be hestia too but idk how the scaling is on pyro + scorch is

[edgy nacelle]

tbh me neither, I never get it high enough to notice how fast it falls off

[signal coral]

iirc pyro technique scales giga high but idk if you can apply enough scorch to actually use pyro at +20

[edgy nacelle]

burning desire would be the move ig

may be worth a pom pom pom run just for fun tbh, I'm curious how fast it can go lol

[signal coral]

all i know is that the pom scaling on pyro is huge but that it usually doesnt matter because you cant apply scorch fast enough to make the later poms do anything

[wide pollen]

Unless Burning Desire

[signal coral]

yeah i think if you have burning desire then hestia with giga poms would go very hard

[wide pollen]

If you manage to work in island getaway as well you can use aphro gain and just tap things with scorch once, spend the rest of combat running around in defense

[signal coral]

i dont think that matters too much the enemies should hopefully die too fast

[edgy nacelle]

also pyro pommed to hell + hestia godsent + burning desire lol...

[wide pollen]

Yeah but with super pyro the second you drop burning desire all the scorch disappears

[edgy nacelle]

altho ig that isn't actually better than anything that applies 100 scorch with burning desire, it's just screen wide which is fun

[wide pollen]

Even when it isn't practical I like hestia godsent because the absurd of amount of scorch makes Mel seem extra terrifying

Never managed to hit that godsent with Demeter duo, I should do that sometime

[forest hinge]

does anyone if you can skip the End-of-Run epilogue'y thing Homer does when you're done with the main story??

[wide pollen]

I don't think so but I would love to

[meager wadi]

im assuming hestia scorch works on typhon but it either didnt show the number or diff color?

[forest hinge]

im not sure why that it, but im pretty sure scorch works on him regardless

[ripe wadi]

Is ares good for Thanatos axe?

I'm toying around with axe and I don't really know how to use ares either

[brazen echo]

It’s okay

Vastly prefer apollo on than axe though for daze and dodges

[lime flax]

i just face tanked all of typhons attacks

i love 450 health and 30% dodge with good dmg

[carmine ginkgo]

Hm, wanna do two birds with one stone and get the last two arcana needed for prophecy... which are artificer and judgement. Other than artificer, what other two arcana to take for a normal run?

(i'm thinking Persistance and Death for hp/mana and death defiances...)

[digital juniper]

pyro doesn’t make the scorch number tick down, but it deals more damage per scorch taken

[digital juniper]

that’s a very safe way to go about it, if you’re confident, you can trade persistence for origination for damage early game

[edgy nacelle]

wait are you sure about that...?
I was under the impression it was the other way around, which is what makes pyro so good. universal dmg% affects how much damage each stack of scorch deals when consumed, but pyro makes 100 stacks get consumed faster per second

the wiki is usually outdated, but it says:

Pyro Technique accelerates the tick rate of Scorch, causing it to apply damage more rapidly without changing its base damage per tick.
and that's my understanding of the boon too

[digital juniper]

i think it was changed with one of the patches in the unseen update, which would explain why the wiki would be outdated

previously, pyro and freezer burn were an anti synergy, now you can take both without issue

thats what i was told and have taken both before, but i never checked myself if it was 100% true

[tall notch]

Yeah that sounds strange to me too, i thought pyro meant more scorch is used

[edgy nacelle]

I kinda wanna flag someone down with more game knowledge than me to confirm

but idk if anyone is online and I don't wanna @ someone out of nowhere lol

[tall notch]

It's may be a speedcord discussion because of the data mining server rule

[edgy nacelle]

sent a message there, may as well

[mellow owl]

Why are there little skulls next to some enemies in the “Most Damage Suffered” section at the end of runs? What do they mean?

[digital juniper]

think that signifies that they’re minibosses, although i’m not 100% sure

[ionic stag]

okay i just checked in the game file

there are two functions handling burn dmg calculation in effectlogic.lua, namely HandleBurnTicks, and HandleBurnStacks. Pyro technique modifies a value called BurnDamageMultiplier which only appears in the calculation of HandleBurnTicks. So it only affects how fast the stacks are consumed not the dmg each stack deals.

[edgy nacelle]

aha! thank you
I think that lines up with my understanding of it + how the wiki describes it, if I'm understanding you right

[digital juniper]

i must have been misinformed then. good to know

[lost gull]

Small question, should Eris's Discordant Bell keep giving the effect and growing even after switching keepsake?

[viral yew]

Yea

[lost gull]

Ah ok, thought it was a bug at first. I don't see it being mentioned that it keeps the buff even after unequiping

[lean crypt]

Most keepsakes work like that now

[visual ermine]

"all this night"

[empty moat]

whats the best cast for thanatos aspect ?

[tall notch]

Demeter imo

[digital juniper]

aphro can be nice to group them all together, but the safety from Dem cast is crazy good

[past mist]

than aspect doesn't have anything unique about it in terms of what it wants out of a cast. so the usual suspects are good (dem for defensive, zeus for single target damage, some variety of heph or hestia or apollo + herms boon for aoe damage)

[tall notch]

Axe attack has a good amount of range so imo the freeze does more than grouping them up

[digital juniper]

oh no i’m agreeing with you, Dem is probably the best choice, was just mentioning that if you run into it, aphro’s works too

[past mist]

the grouping up on aphro is imo not that valuable, unless you have the apollo thing that makes your cast really big at that point it starts being noticable

[tall notch]

I do like it, just not as much as the freeze

[past mist]

but yeah, dem/zeus is probably the best casts in the game unless something changed since i played a lot

[bleak gale]

What Attack do you use on Shiva? Aphrodite/Apollo right?

The dash won't make you miss the Close Up dmg right?

[digital juniper]

zeus and hestia’s are the best damaging casts (zeus more single target, hestia more aoe) and dem is the best defensive cast by far you’d be right

[past mist]

the dash won't make you miss the closeup damage no. although if i'm running a %damage thing i'm ususally running hera

[past mist]

sweet

oh right, i technically forgot to mention hera's cast in the cast discussion

hera's cast is great - it's just not as great as having her on your attack or special

[viral yew]

Attack i find is better to run pos/hestia rather than focusing on bigger omega damage

Although if you do aphro is best

[bleak gale]

Because diminishing return the way multiplier works?

[past mist]

feels like you might as well play mel aspect at that point though, nah?

wait, actually lemme read destructive again

[viral yew]

That and you get more consistent damage

[bleak gale]

I can see that

The idea is O Attack is already massive already so why not actually get strong Attack in during downtime

[viral yew]

No, the moveset (mostly the specials) are much better, and the oattack is good chunk damage on bosses, you're not using it in most other encounters

You still get a 1.2k base damage attack at max destructive ranks

Which is insane with %damage but it's more consistent to have flat damage on normal attacks

Although it's a viable build on low fear, i normally play 32+ so i prefer flat damage

[past mist]

nevermind you're entirely right

destructive is just a straight %damage increase

so additive % increase stuff means there's little reason to run % for %

so instead run pos/hestia, or run hera for hitch

[viral yew]

Hera is also nice

[tall notch]

I'll be honest I don't like Zeus cast that much, like I'll take it if nothing better shows up in the selection but I prefer having some form of aoe on my cast

[past mist]

admittedly this was in a meta where hera on primary damage method was assumed

which means aoe was already decently well in hand

i haven't done high fear since olympic

did anything change to make zeus cast bad in that time?

[tall notch]

Oh no it's still considered good, I just personally don't like it which may have to do with my playstyle

[past mist]

aah fair enough

[tall notch]

I like using my cast for control in rooms, I'll cover single target with other parts of my build

[past mist]

what's the high fear community look like now? was playing through the game at 32 to finish up the game and i'm about to start pushing again

is there a new equivalent of the old 50 fear spreadsheet?

[tall notch]

There's a website hold on let me get the link for you

h2crossroads.pages.dev/

[past mist]

to be fair - was always way more a fan of dem cast than zeus personally too

[tall notch]

I think rivals made high fear more fun

[past mist]

dammit i keep forgetting the language stuff

rivals might f me over, i have all this muscle memory from the old bosses and i struggle to relearn patterns

[tall notch]

Dw they're fun

[past mist]

oh they have been!

i just keep getting hit by cerberus swinging behind him and stuff

the kind of stuff punishing the strategies used to beat normal cerby

[tall notch]

Yeah that back swing was such a smart design decision

[past mist]

yeah but i did a thousand nights before rivals, how am i meant to unlearn my puppymurder technique?!?

is videos for all clears mandatory for participation now btw?

[digital juniper]

for speedrun.com yes, for crossroads i think just the victory screen is enough

[tall notch]

Crossroads seems fairly lenient considering the Runs We Do Not Talk About that got accepted

[digital juniper]

completely fair runs and normally played out

[past mist]

not sure what either of those are, since coldshade didn't get the link yet

although i can guess for speedrun

but speedrunning was never my cup of tea

but yeah, idk. probably gonna start pushing high fear again? although motivation's flickering a bit

hmm only recognize 1 name on the speedrun list on speedrun.com for underworld unseeded any fear

blegh, speedrun.com caring about a different timer than the one in-game sucks a bit

oh well, not my cup of tea anyway

[edgy nacelle]

iirc in the speed discord didn't foolish say you can leave that blank, since the mods always re-time it anyway...?

granted I've never submitted a run, but. still

[past mist]

i wouldn't know i'm not in there

i just returned here since leaving in olympic patch, and even then i pushed high fear not speed

[edgy nacelle]

I only am as of like. yesterday? day before? idr, abt to go to bed.
but foolish is the current wr holder and said something to that effect
they also have some channels for high fear, I joined cause I want more advice for pushing fear and pb times both

[past mist]

but the real reason it's bad is because that means speedrunners can't pet cerby >:c

[viral yew]

Which runs tho I wanna know the tea

[edgy nacelle]

is it the 67 surface where they save scummed typhon or w/e after losing gale early? or runs I don't know the gossip abt 👀

[tall notch]

It's h2crossroads.pages.dev/

[past mist]

is there a discord community for high fear as well?

[tall notch]

The speedrun discord has a high fear channel that is pretty active

[past mist]

alright, joined there. sad the old discord got shut down

[past mist]

what's the upload criteria for runs here? it seems to be a wide array of fear

not sure how to take the stats if it mixes up stats from low and high fear

[edgy nacelle]

yeah idk how crossroads works when it comes to runs tbh, kinda hard to browse. I was trying to get a sense of which weapons are best for any fear in 1.0 (other than medea) and. idk. confusing layout. altho granted I also know nothing abt speedrunning so it's all new to me

[past mist]

yeah fair

i saw the stats section, was really interested to see all the fates whim stuff, but then realized the stats don't actually differentiate between the uploads of low fear and high fear and now i've no idea whether i can use these stats for high fear norms

[rugged moon]

You can see runs in query sorting by fear

To give an idea at least

[past mist]

yeah but that's not stats

i loved mini's spreadsheet because it gave a clear idea of what kind of stuff people were succeeding with most on average. it didn't tell you why or whether it was the best thing, but it showed a meta you could follow if you didn't know the aspect that well

(and mini made other resources for the rest)

[viral yew]

Fates whim is used 90% of the time for high fear

[past mist]

sweet, that's fun

honestly would never have predicted that rerolls could be shaken from their spot as the most useful thing

[viral yew]

They can when you get given essentially dozens of free poms

[past mist]

that's fair

and fun!

[meager wadi]

what are some typical sitch staff builds

besides hidden aspect

[viral yew]

Which aspect?

[meager wadi]

kind of down to try any but i guess momus or circe

[viral yew]

Mel aspect wants big %damage on special, circe wants hestia/zeus cast, and momus u want apollo/hera

[leaden zephyr]

@glass bone hey there. Trying the first runs with ||jeweled pom|| seems like tricky to make supay work at high fear. The main concern I see now, is first, to reset enough times to get ||gigaros dash|| and then be lucky to get zeus spec. The spoiler dash makes the early game much easier, but my concern is blitz on spec. Have you had good exp with an other good on the spec?

[meager wadi]

is momus just spamming all omegas? havent tried it that much

[past mist]

although, is this a situation where people reroll their seed if they don't get the gods they want? because that might make me less excited about this development

[edgy nacelle]

storm ring circe is very reliable imo. throw in double strike, some duos, maybe king's ransom
you can stack a bunch of omega casts too (like tidal ring + geyser spout + prominence flare + meat grinder + local climate) and that's fun but harder to get going and less safe
momus is the weakest staff rn but you drop turrets and then spam normal moves until they expire p much. cut above builds are fun on momus, but not super strong and want two duo boons to feel good. but still, for a fun run it's neat

[viral yew]

As someone that has done 50f with supay, yes you basically have to reroll for gigaros dash, but you can definitely rock hera or hestia on the special and be fine

[viral yew]

Depends, on high fear/speedruns maybe, I only roll for specific hades boons, but normally you don't need to

[meager wadi]

i see what makes apollo/hera good on momus then is it just for the main atk in between omegaw

and is the best familair for circe the cat?

[leaden zephyr]

@viral yew thx for your input 🙂

[viral yew]

Np

[viral yew]

Raki or gale

[viral yew]

Hera is good cause hitch, espc with multiple attacks, and apollo cause legendary and easier to hit omega attack

[past mist]

so, question. if i'm building back up to 62 from 32, what would y'all say is a good curve of things to increase in a few steps at a time? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005263281730105504/1426887369948266527/image.png?ex=68ecdbeb&is=68eb8a6b&hm=e2f1ce985c4198d7430dee1297dd8a2693672610575a105343294afa42746fbc&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2042&height=1071
currently been doing this for 32

[leaden zephyr]

@viral yew im mainly playing strength but thinking about switching to death solely because of engraved pin

[viral yew]

Max rivals is diabolical at 32, but I would build up to timer 3 first

[viral yew]

What fear are u playing?

[past mist]

i feel like timer 3 will be literally unimportant unless i turn hordes, wards, grit, and return on too

[leaden zephyr]

im having fun runs on 40/45, but aimign to go higher than 50

[tall notch]

shout out to Heph cast Circe, it's really good too

[past mist]

i haven't double checked my ephyra/erebus times, but i think i'm beating the timer 3 times comfortably rn

[edgy nacelle]

I mean I would run timer but ngl until I started pushing fear with you I picked max rivals at 24 too lol, iirc, to try to practice. willingly making life harder for myself

[viral yew]

You're probably better off turning on dds at that point to get used to it, you're not far off from scars 2-3

[viral yew]

It's better in the long run cause I am STRUGGLING with vor chronos rn

[past mist]

yeah, rivals and frenzy is on because it's the two most important fears to make sure i don't get used to having off

[tall notch]

I'd put on Hordes, Wards (if you're not practicing with a weapon that really really really hates wards), Return, max out Scars, and take Debt to get used to the economy

[leaden zephyr]

@viral yew true

[tall notch]

Hordes is hard but if you're aiming high you've got to get used to the enemy density

[edgy nacelle]

I also ran surface like 80% of the time tho so I'm not exactly great w rivals chronos either lol

[past mist]

mmm getting used to having way fewer boons available might be a good idea

[viral yew]

Mfw a third wave of enemies in erebus room 2

[past mist]

without debt and onion, it's so easy to get greedy in ways that aren't necessary to win

[tall notch]

Onion is one you'll have to get used to but personally I dislike it so I'd leave it until last lol

[past mist]

but yeah, i haven't timed my runs but i think timer 3 will only matter if i turn on the stuff that makes it hard to do

[glass bone]

I’d say that Zeus Special isn’t the requirement. The actual requirement to me is Heat Rush / Breaker Rush, and two curses. I tried going with Hera’s Rush boon on Supay, and it seemed to not work at that level.

[tall notch]

I'd suggest that if you keep the actual timer vow off, you still keep the timer in the top right corner so that you have an idea of how long it takes you to get through the regions

[leaden zephyr]

I thought the same, hera rush seemed lacking at higher fear

[past mist]

yeah i should've done that ages ago, just kept forgetting

[glass bone]

The only other damaging sprint I can think of to buff is Zeus’s Sprint, but that’s single target, so it gets ruined by the Hordes

[leaden zephyr]

guy on crossroads 62F had zeus rush, but he probably got lucky looking at his other setup

I dont have much problem with hordes actually, had good experience with zeus rush but it was at lower fear, might completely change my mind later on

[glass bone]

The problem with Hordes is in combination with other vows. Grit makes them tankier. Wards gives 2 blocks. Timer means you have to kill them and the Rival bosses faster. And then Pain means any mistakes are worse

[past mist]

there's incredibly little consistency between the various 62+ fear supay runs actually. there's nothing that's present in all runs as an individual core boon

doesn't even look like there's a god that's present for all of them

heph is present for all but 1

[glass bone]

To be fair, I feel like there’s a major difference between 50 fear, 62 fear, and beyond 62 fear

[past mist]

oh absolutely

especially depending on what you leave off

[past mist]

wait.. sorry

even though i searched specifically for supay, it showed circe runs

sorry this website is weird

there's only 2 supay runs then

[edgy nacelle]

still crossroads?
if you figure out how to make it work pls lmk lol

[glass bone]

With 50, you can avoid certain annoying vows (Hordes, Grit, etc.). At 62, you can only avoid 5 fear, and usually that’s the vow of Void. And also, the 64 Fear Supay run may or may not be seeded, or have resets.

[past mist]

yeah. i had searched circe before supay, and searching supay just made both show up

there's only 2 62+ fear runs

both use zeus spec

[edgy nacelle]

what would you leave off for 55, other than void? I cleared 50 recently and either 52 or 55 is next I think, on the road to 62

[viral yew]

Why 52 specifically hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[glass bone]

I mean to be fair, the jump from 50 to 62 is high

[past mist]

hmm... for 52, it depends what you find most difficult to deal with? i think leaving off onion, scars 3, pain 3, and time 3 might be the best bet?

or hordes 3 instead of pain 3

[viral yew]

I had onion and time 3 on for 52, but I did it without vor4

[glass bone]

If the goal is to do 62, then I’d say to put on the most impactful vows on. Though to be clear, I’d avoid Hordes + Grit because that introduces the RNG element to 62 a bit.

Let me think of exactly 52 and 55…

[empty moat]

chat for thanatos aspect whats better between an apollo/aphrodite build and a zeus/poseidon blitz build?

[viral yew]

Me and malkin are both pushing for 55, i've done 52 but can't quite take out p3 chronos

[viral yew]

First one

[glass bone]

It’s a bit hard to get exactly 52 or 55 fear, but I think that going beyond 50 fear should have Forfeit and Scars maxed imo. https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzEsMCwyLDYsMCwzLDIsNSw0LDIsMiwzLDYsMCwyLDIsMTJd
You need practice to get used to not having a whole bunch of boons and healing, so what you could do is turn down Pain for more chances at the Chronos fight, but have Scars and Forfeit on.

[edgy nacelle]

actually hm, rivals alone will jump from 50 to 54, so ig it's just down to throwing on either 1 grit or 1 pain

[glass bone]

Exactly 55 could change it from Pain 1 -> Pain 3, and removing a bit of Wards, I guess?

[edgy nacelle]

I was doing rivals 4 at 40f but wanted a break so just r3 recently lol

[viral yew]

I can get to the chronos fight pretty consistently with my current setup i just suck at the fight, I don't want to put on scars 3 yet

[edgy nacelle]

ooh interesting! I've had hordes on to get used to it

[past mist]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005263281730105504/1426891743605035089/image.png?ex=68ecdffe&is=68eb8e7e&hm=fa35f770bd271a51943dea89dfeadb86ad91c361203aa23caf80214a9c9dcd05&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2177&height=1069 gonna try to see what happens to my run if i do this. gonna look at the timer at the breakpoints, and keeping off scars for now to give me some leeway. likely not gonna succeed at first, but just want to see how out of practice i am

[glass bone]

The alternative then is to just put on more Hordes over Scars 3, because Hordes of the available vows left do not directly effect Chronos.

But to me, having the switch from Wayward Son to (more than likely) Swift Runner is something that needs to be done eventually

[viral yew]

I'm fine with max hordes and grit

[edgy nacelle]

do you feel pain is safer than grit, then? ig it doesn't make timer harder, just punishes you for getting hit

[viral yew]

Yeah i just want to get one 55f clear first

[edgy nacelle]

rn I have all the 1 cost cards on lol for Jpom runs at least
altho I'm not sure my set ups for that are ideal
and, correction, only for some loadouts, one more Ω focused one drops wayward. I change them often tho, still deciding what I like

[glass bone]

The pain value is added there because the goal is to practice not getting hit, but not be too punishing.

To be clear, at 62 Fear, it’s still okay to be hit by enemies every once in a while. It’s the standard I try to go for, but others in the Speedrun discord are going farther (to 65 and 67)

(Reason being, I really hate the Vow of Void )

[edgy nacelle]

tbh I... would like to clear 62 but idk if 67 interests me at all
I don't like void. I don't see the point in high fear judgement runs and 67 sounds more painful than fun

I am not boated, I am seasick, 62 is already more than I thought I'd ever manage

[glass bone]

67 Fear requires even less hits taken (because you can’t have Persistence), and probably Antler? (Because Furies and Origination are chucked out).

[viral yew]

What he said, if i ever do manage to do 62 (big maybe) then thats the end of my career

[glass bone]

None of the 3 67 Fear clearers (Foolish, Boated, and Vytautas) atm have taken Crystal Figurine to make up for it either.

[past mist]

huh, the only aspect of the coat with any clears on the site seems to be nyx

[glass bone]

And I don’t think Red (the 4th person trying this atm) is doing this either

[edgy nacelle]

I mean tbh I get this, I don't like the idea of high fear judgement runs and figurine is just judgement lite, I don't want more rng in my high fear...

[glass bone]

My personal goal is instead getting as close as I can to 62 Fear All Aspects

[edgy nacelle]

oooooh

[glass bone]

ATM, I’m like… 1/4th of the way there.

Well, I guess it’s more accurate to say All Aspects Both routes

10/24 UW, 1/24 Surface

[edgy nacelle]

maybe some day. for rn I'll settle for 55 lol, baby steps
trying to be good at hard games is v new to me

[glass bone]

Yeah, will say, don’t recommend immediately jumping from 50 to 62

[rare crypt]

hi, does anyone know how to do the double dash-strike tech?

[glass bone]

And any win is still a win.

[glass bone]

Could you add a bit more context? Is this for like… Staff? Or Medea? Or something else?

[rare crypt]

Oh, sorry, I just did it with the Sister Blades and I've no idea how

the only hammer upgrade I have is to throw 3 specials with the strike-dash

[glass bone]

I’ve not heard of a double dash strike tech with Trick Knives… one moment…

[edgy nacelle]

yesss lol absolutely not.
idk, when I played hades 1 I found like.... 12 heat hard, I comparatively sucked at gaming even a year or two ago
(as I've mentioned before, the hades to hollow knight to nine sols to hades 2 to silksong pipeline was rly my git gud arc)

[rare crypt]

I did clip it

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/10389026692390889028/805F9AB7E5BD809DFF25BF34A5D19C8AF207F1C1/

[glass bone]

Never seen that before, and yet I’ve done so many runs with Sister Blades…

Now I’m left here wondering “how does this work?”

[rare crypt]

I've done it occasionally before, too (in actual fights), but this time I REALLY noticed it cause I was just testing auto-sprint (literally just found out there's such setting in the game)

hey, if I've discovered new tech let's call it the sick-strike

[glass bone]

Okay, can you try chaining it anymore than 2?

[rare crypt]

not sure, can barely do it twice (still figuring it out)

[past mist]

first attempt with this had me getting out of erebus at 5:05

[glass bone]

If you don’t mind me asking; is this using Jeweled Pom?

[rare crypt]

but in theory I assume so

[past mist]

yeah

[glass bone]

I see. It is expected to see some timeouts in Erebus

[past mist]

went into hecate with 1:30 remaining

[glass bone]

But 5:05 isn’t the worst it could be

[past mist]

also, question about time piece - what are you supposed to be selling?

[empty moat]

whats the build for the aspect of nyx ?

[past mist]

wait, you can get 150 gold for onion!?

that's ridiculous

[glass bone]

Whatever isn’t necessary. I can’t recall if selling the onion means it’s gone for the region or not

[past mist]

oh.. that's a point. guess i'll be testing that

[glass bone]

You can also sell Chaos boons if you are worried about getting bad curses, so then the gate is just a “free” encounter skip

I know there is an answer. I just forgot it…

[past mist]

does hermes normally get hit by onion or is he excepted?

[glass bone]

Yes, Hermes is included by Onion hits

[visual ermine]

Is Origination multiplicative damage? It always feels so much more damage than what an additional 50% would feel later on in the game, but if you're lazy and don't set up origination the damage just seems low

[past mist]

then selling the onion doesn't create another

that's ridiculously fun

[glass bone]

Scorch Special, into Pyro Technique. Any gain should work to support it, though taking the Unseen Arcana is a bit dubious.

Just remembered, along with Unseen, is Aphro Gain. Both Unseen and Glamour Gain can work, but it won’t as often regen because OSprint counts as channeling, and therefore stops the magick regen.

[empty moat]

mk thx

[glass bone]

In theory, the best gain is Cardio Gain, because the Nightspawn count, meaning you may regain enough for another OSprint in like 3 Specials

[past mist]

double checking - is timer 3 5 minutes per region?

sweet

died on scylla, but had a minute remaining and i was through all phases

so, i was actually beating time just fine, just taking way too many hits against hecate and scylla

[glass bone]

Which hex was the transition phase?

[viral yew]

Timer isn't usually the problem, getting hit is

For me anyway

[past mist]

lunar ray

[rare crypt]

Figured it out, it's just Dash-Strike from Sprint, followed immediately by a Dash-Strike from Rush (dashing)

[glass bone]

Oh wow. That one is the worst.

[viral yew]

There's one i hate more than lunar ray

[past mist]

came out of the hecate fight with 5 minutes and 5 seconds on that attempt, so that seems to imply i was doing fine on timer. but that might just be nyx being good at timer

[glass bone]

I’ve managed to beat Hecate and clear a run with a Lunar Ray at 62, but the difference between most other hexes (such as Dark Side OSpecial / waves) feels pretty big.

[viral yew]

I despise waves

[glass bone]

Nyx is pretty solid at clearing rooms once you get the Special boon. But to clear the latter two bosses on time, Pyro Technique is basically required.

Oh wait, yeah. By “waves”, I mean the singular OSpecial wave

There’s a completely separate waves attack too…

[uncut thistle]

Read somewhere months ago that Strength is still always better than Death. Still the case in 1.0 or has anything changed in 1.0 to make it more subjective?

[glass bone]

That one is also pretty bad to deal with.

[uncut thistle]

I know a lot of is up to personal preference, but curious about trying to look at it from a semi-objective perspective

[glass bone]

Yes*.
*Strength is “always” better than Death if 1. you don’t get hit, and 2. You don’t have Scars 3 (and also Pain 3, but the real problem is the maxed Scars)

For speedrunning, Strength is the go to. But for high fear, Strength is avoided at 50-62 Fear (unless you take a Fates Whim setup and want Strength and Death)

[uncut thistle]

I see

[glass bone]

Well good news and bad news I guess.
Good news; nobody’s said anything about it being discovered.
Bad news: it’s because nobody’s replied to it yet… I’ll have to see if this is known, but I’ll include the tech controls and your username in there if you don’t mind.

[rare crypt]

I definitely do not mind

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/17554394710375151293/3D484B7EA3824A9F4DA1B21981997C1BE9E52B23/

starting to get the hang of it, trying to figure it if I could do it much faster between Sprints

[past mist]

4:58 to beat hecate this time, and without losing DDs unlike last time

so yeah, pain and scars is probably the big holdups for me returning to high fear, just gotta re-learn not to get hit

(or nyx is just good and i will need to re-learn to clear fast on other weapons)

[edgy nacelle]

nyx is prob the best coat, but there are other similarly strong weapons for sure

[past mist]

... is zag fight anything on high fear?

[viral yew]

Not really

[past mist]

figured

[glass bone]

The only use that was figured out for doing that fight, is in Thessaly midshop, and assuming the next room isn’t another skip of some sort (fountain, Circe, or even a miniboss is more preferred than a big ship encounter)

[past mist]

neat

also i really need to learn the scylla rivals fight better

[rare crypt]

unfortunately auto-sprint doesn't seem to help at all

[glass bone]

So this tech does seem to be known. I guess I just haven’t seen it before because I’ve not done it much on TK Blades

[rare crypt]

Who did you ask? Is there something I'm missing? So far all I can do is a 3rd dash-strike after the double and that's about it

[glass bone]

Vytautas responded. It’s animation cancelling

[rare crypt]

I was just wondering if there's a way to bypass the limitation they've put on the dash-strike from Sprint

[glass bone]

Main thing is that Dash Attack from a Sprint, because then the dash button isn’t on a cooldown.

[rare crypt]

yeah, but basically it's limited to having to dash again (after the dash-strike) to re-enable Sprinting (after the dash-strike you can't do another sprint-strike even though ur sprinting)

i guess the devs realized ppl could just loop it so they put a limitation on the Sprint-strike, but I wish there was a way to bypass/reset it

because ur literally sprinting, but u don't get to Sprint-Strike

[daring nexus]

how does Cardio Gain work with Aspect of Anubis?

[jaunty garden]

any fun aspect of medea idea ?

[edgy nacelle]

very well
every tick restores magick, altho I think only once per tick max, it doesn’t scale with how many enemies are in the circle

[lean crypt]

is hera dash ok on supay?

thinking that for breezing through normal rooms and there's still the attack and special for boss damage

[edgy nacelle]

it’s fun as hell
nearly useless in boss fights but great for room clear. not the best option but totally fine, if you can get something good on your specials soon after

[lean crypt]

thought as much yeah

[glass bone]

It works, but I really don’t like it for 50+ Fear

[lean crypt]

hey it might be pretty nice in rivals scylle tho

[edgy nacelle]

hitch in general is nice but idk if nexus in particular is the best way to get hitch in that fight 🤷 altho it’s fine. and some of the most satisfying room clear ever lol, imo

[glass bone]

It’s probably better to take Heat / Breaker Rush and put Hitch on the Attack or Special

In theory, because all you care about is the Hitch status, a theoretical best is Hera Attack, Zeus Special (because Blitz is just busted), and the best rush boon you like

[past mist]

4:16 on third attempt

although gotten lucky and gotten the dash from hades every time

[vernal quiver]

holy fresh file run i got apollo legendary out of the first area, then only ever got demeter boons and now i have their duo and im at chronos 😭

like Poseidon just never bothered to show this mf pisses me off, at least i managed to get 150 mana so i actually have a damage uptime 😔

[mental copper]

i still dont get which boons is better on anubis

hestia? or posedion?

[glass bone]

Either can work. I personally prefer Hestia because Pyro Technique is incredibly strong.

[mental copper]

so i should just use damage over time boons?

[glass bone]

Well Scorch is a DOT yes.

My personal favorite setup is Hestia Attack, Hera Special, and either Cardio Gain, or Glamour Gain if I want Burning Desire

[mental copper]

why not demeters duo boon?

[glass bone]

That can work too, but perhaps I’m just a hater of Freezer Burn and like my scorch always applied?

Idk…

[tall notch]

I am notorious for timing out, rn it doesn't happen as often purely because of how much player power fates' whim throws at you 😭

[strong mesa]

Is cat actually better than the crow for circe super high fear or is it pretty interchangeable

So annoying having to wait for her to spawn in 😭

[empty moat]

chat to get the hidden aspect i need to visit the npc with the +5 weapon or does any weapon from that type triggers the dialogue ?

[glass bone]

It can be any weapon I think

[sturdy fractal]

anybody know good builds for aspect of thanatos w the moonstone axe?

[glass bone]

I prefer Toula over Raki, especially if I am using Smolder Ring

[past mist]

just got to charon end shop with 14:18 on the timer

so yeah, at least on nyx, timer's not gonna be a problem for me. just gotta learn to dodge again..

[strong mesa]

Having the extra dd is def a massive help atleast

[glass bone]

Crits do not help Scorch damage, so Raki isn’t helpful there. And as for Storm Ring, you can use either, but again, it’s my preference for Toula

[glass bone]

Wait which Charon shop? The one in Fields, or the one in Tartarus?

[past mist]

end shop sorry

heading into chronos

sorry end end shop? tart end shop

[strong mesa]

I think i had hera cast on my 50f circe clear lol

[glass bone]

Oh yeah, 14:18 into Chronos is very good.

[strong mesa]

I just fates whim and see if the run survives

[glass bone]

Any cast with Pom works, but to me, the best casts are Storm Ring and Smolder Ring for Circe.

[strong mesa]

Yeah for sure

[glass bone]

Storm Ring is better for single target damage, Smolder for AoE

[strong mesa]

I think i had yhe dpuble attack with hestia gain so hera cast turned out pretty nice

But yeah not really what ur actually aiming for

Guess ill ho back to cat for my 54 heat run then

An extra dd vs vor 4 prob helps

[past mist]

damn, died to chronos. still don't have his rivals patterns down

[glass bone]

Don’t fret. I have lost some good runs too.

Is there a specific part that is troublesome?

[strong mesa]

my opyimal build is like hestia/zeus cast, zeus special, hera/apollo dash and as much survivibility as possible?

I was mostly doing moros for high fear until now but the autoaim was tilting me so much im tryna set pbs with circe instead 😭

[past mist]

hmm... phase 3's attack patterns are really hard to just i-frame dodge the way i tend to try. the discs and the teleporting and multiple chronos coming around. is there a good way to get the pattern down for that?
Also, phase 2 should i be trying to knock chronos through the health gates in the beginning, or just do the rings game? As well as with hordes on, is the priority to just murder all the time pieces before trying to kill chronos?

[glass bone]

That sounds about right. But if you are doing UW high fear, and don’t get Blinding Rush, you’ll want to try to go for some other form of movement speed (Nitro Boost, and Plasma can work)

[past mist]

i guess i should really watch some clears of how people handle the various rivals fights

before i learn some bad habits

[glass bone]

The movement speed is specifically for finding the fear rewards in Fields, Rival Cerberus’s fireballs, and P3 Chronos

[glass bone]

For P2, try to get some damage in, but more often than not, unless you are using some ultra powerful Antler setup, you won’t clear it. But you could sack your Armor (if you have any) for the third Instakill at the start

[strong mesa]

ive never done p3 chronos on frenzy 2

doesnt sound fun without movement speed tho lol

[past mist]

the start of p3 i just lap the arena, i assume that's the right move?

[glass bone]

For P3, this part is something I myself need to do, but…

• For the triple scythe throw, you need to stand around where the middle scythe is, and dodge towards it. Otherwise, you have to run as far away as you can.
• For the lasers, yes, run around the arena. If you have a damaging cast, you could drop the cast along the run to get some chip damage.
• When Clonos (the aberration) shows up, and actual Chronos is in an invulnerability phase, actual Chronos’s next move is 4 Double Dash Attacks. Trigger him by getting close, start running, and count the 4 double dashes. At the 4th attack, he stands there for a good 3-5 seconds and does nothing.

[past mist]

so essentially, if i have a way to ignore the third insta kill i should push him during it?

[glass bone]

The “something else” is the Triple Scythe. I have rarely dodged it properly tbh

[glass bone]

You can, but you probably won’t phase transition him. You can still do good damage on a lot of weapons from faraway though.

[past mist]

ah, having an attack pattern i should just not try to fight him during is probably part of why i die. i keep trying to just dodge and keep fighting up close during cclonos stuff. the tip for the tripple scythe is real helpful though, love that

[strong mesa]

sidenote, all my homies hate vor4 chronos summons in phase 1

[glass bone]

P3 Chronos is a matter of learning when to fight, and when to dodge.

Ignoring the laser attack, Chronos will pause after each attack for a few seconds.

[past mist]

yeah my brain's always been the 'if i just dodge better i don't need to run' type of idiot

[glass bone]

So you dodge it, and then counterattack

I mean you can dodge most attacks. The ones where I feel like you are forced to run, are Lasers, the Quadruple Scythe Rip, and the 4 Double Dash Attacks.

[past mist]

nods yeah

honestly - the rivals fights are probably the single largest thing that's in my way in terms of getting back to high fear, so i should probably just watch clears of.. all of them tbh

see how people handle them. i kinda suck at new scylla especially

[strong mesa]

Tartarus is generally relatively fast to clear at least so u should have time to run around and dodge

[strong mesa]

scylla and prometheus are such run killers for me

prometheus vor often cuz of timer

[past mist]

honestly, prom was hell for me even back in olympic patch

i just couldn't tell his choreography apart at all

[strong mesa]

he used to be completely unfair on frenzy 2 even without heracles when he first launched right

[narrow bramble]

late shop vs chaos on a speed run - late shop right? no reason for chaos roomskip at that point?

[strong mesa]

chaos doesnt pause timer so has to be shop no

[past mist]

yupp

mental block, back before it got nerfed, was how i learned to deal with him

which, to be fair, they had do make surface harder because there wasn't a 4th region yet

question - does charybdis only shoot at you during the scylla fight if you're on that half of the arena?

[brittle brook]

Does hostile environment lock you out of tropical cyclone and glorious disaster?

[past mist]

why would it?

glroious disaster i can sorta imagine the why of it

but why tropical cyclone?

[brittle brook]

Idk thats why im asking

[past mist]

to the best of my knowledge, both of them should work just fine alongside hostile environment

tropical cyclone doesn't even need you to have arctic gale, it can work from the sprint too

which healing effects work past scars at this point?

looking at this video, it looks like chaos' revival works even with scars?

wondering if there's a list

[flint widget]

ghost onion works with scars

[rare crypt]

How does Blitz work exactly? It doesn't count the damage of the hit it's applied with, for the 120 damage required, right?

[obtuse roost]

is aspect of pan lacking? it feels worse than the chiron bow in h1. I had ranged hades cast and poseidon specials which was good but felt like it wasn't worth the trouble

[flint widget]

yeah you can't instantly proc blitz using the hit in which blitz is applied

[flint widget]

just get trick knives hera special and ur set for the rest of the run, but it kinda sucks that you need a hammer for an aspect to feel good

but then again same can be said for any other of the non hidden aspect blades

[obtuse roost]

I did have trick knives, those were nice. The special charge just takes too long and you have very limited time in the cast too, though i didn't have hermes boost to speed it up

But yeah it wasn't what i was expecting

[flint widget]

blades is just trick knives the weapon

[mental copper]

black coats just suck bro who even added them into game

[flint widget]

they aren't perfect but they dont suck that hard

[mental copper]

they do bro

[flint widget]

like nyx and shiva are quite good and decent

[mental copper]

what boons do i even use with them

[obtuse roost]

I really struggle with coat too, definitely my least fav weapon

[flint widget]

for nyx just get hestia attack zeus special thermal dynamics and ur set

[mental copper]

how is nyx good nightspawn doesnt even do anything

[flint widget]

shimmering rockets for bonus points

once u get that room clear is gonna be insane

[mental copper]

like what does nightspawn even do

[flint widget]

it doubles ur amount of attacks and special for nine secs i think but it reduces the damage by 25% so its 75%

[obtuse roost]

Does nightspawn attacks hit the initial target? I can feel its effect in crowded rooms but can't tell if it's doing anything in boss fights

[flint widget]

it's cracked

[flint widget]

i can assure u it does works on bosses

[chilly swift]

Does the Bolstered Array hammer show up when you have Aspect of Medea equipped? I can't get this hammer for the life of me, even with the -1 +2 hammers you can buy in the shop

[obtuse roost]

Ok cool

[mental copper]

what about shiva

[flint widget]

it's the hidden aspect for the black coat, get a good magick regen, equip night arcana card, and spam omega specials and attacks for that sweet sweet damage

shiva with apollo attack is kinda cracked

[obtuse roost]

It's probably skill issue but most of the time when i try to block i end up getting hit more, that's my main issue with coat

It's not very consistent what you can and cannot block

[flint widget]

iirc blocking only works when ur charging up the omega not when it's fully charged i think

[obtuse roost]

I think it has some lingering frames but that hasn't been the problem anyway

[past mist]

yeah. if you run out of magick, or it's fully charged it stops working. if the hit is coming at you from a different dirrection than your block it doesn't get blocked. and a small number of effects (usually ground based like dark side from hecate) can't be blocked

[flint widget]

and tbh i don't even use the block mechanic that much i just dodge

only time i try to block is for counter supreme shiva

[obtuse roost]

It's very inconsistent cuz polyphemus shockwave can be blocked but then i try to block other similar moves like dark side and get hit, like ffs

I try to avoid blocking but it takes a bit to charge and makes you slow so it is kinda needed of you try to spam omega

[flint widget]

if ur trying to get out a fully charged omega attack ur doing it the wrong way

[turbid crescent]

I never get trick knives

[flint widget]

cuz like ofc it's gonna be slow

[turbid crescent]

This game hates me

[obtuse roost]

Yeah i did learn that fully charging isn't worth

[turbid crescent]

I can't find a build to get through chronos finally, and I also can't use anything other than daggers

[weak meteor]

Why can't you use anything other than daggers?

[flint widget]

why not other weapons

[turbid crescent]

Because skill issue

• dagger is just my kind of weapon

[flint widget]

like if ur struggling to kill chronos just get mel staff dual moonshot hera special and u are set

bonus points if u get blitz attack

that's like the beginner weapon

[obtuse roost]

Why is hera so good?

[weak meteor]

Is she?

[flint widget]

hera has the hitch effect which is basically ripoff ramas shared suffering from h1

hera is massive for aoe

and crowd control

[weak meteor]

Oh, hm. How does Aphrodite interact with Anubis attack?

[flint widget]

never tried it, figured itd suck ass

[obtuse roost]

Idk, i see him recommending hera and i don't really get it. I'm not a big fan of hitch tbh and especially with something like double staff specials which have short range i don't get it

[weak meteor]

Hera is good for room clearing, but relatively bad for bosses. (Except Rivals 3, which is really thematic, her making Heracles's life hell.)

[turbid crescent]

Hate staff ngl

[obtuse roost]

That's been my impression too

[turbid crescent]

I enjoy fast weapons like daggers when I'm dealing with bosses like scylla or chronos

or literally every boss in this game

[flint widget]

what aspect are u using for lim and oros

[obtuse roost]

Honestly I'd argue skull is even faster

[weak meteor]

But one advantage of Hera is that her Hitch debuff lasts for ages and ages, which is good for origination. And she has Uncommon Grace, which is one of the better damage boosting boons.

[turbid crescent]

I don't have the hidden aspect yet

just stuck with mel

[flint widget]

what rank is mel

[turbid crescent]

max

[flint widget]

didn't even unlock the other aspects yet?

[turbid crescent]

I have pan

[weak meteor]

Pan is bad, so don't worry about that.

[turbid crescent]

didnt bother getting resources for artemis, and I'm not getting the dialogue for morrigan

[flint widget]

pan with trick knives is so so so so cracked tho

[weak meteor]

Pan is We Have Chiron at Home, and it makes me sad.

[turbid crescent]

luckily I didn't bother upgrading it lol

[weak meteor]

You won't get the dialogue until you unlock Artemis.

[turbid crescent]

(more like no nmare)

[flint widget]

and u need to have a non mel blades aspect to rank v

[obtuse roost]

I maxed out pan before using it

[weak meteor]

I think Mel at 5 works too.

[obtuse roost]

But it's fine, idc about the other aspects anyway

[turbid crescent]

Mel at 5 wont work?

[flint widget]

i think so

[turbid crescent]

thanks supergiant.

[odd bolt]

hey does selene's keepsake mess up with the fate's whim? i'm assuming it does but not 100% sure

[turbid crescent]

Eh, I'll max artemis

[weak meteor]

It does not. She's not an Olympian.

[odd bolt]

makes sense

thanks!

[weak meteor]

Athena will though, for example.

[flint widget]

like ignoring morrigan, mel blades imo is the best blades aspect and it's not even close

[weak meteor]

Game is actually pretty consistent about the Olympian divide, even if that's a lore thing. Debuffs from Selene or Hades will not count for Origination for example.

[turbid crescent]

Can't seem to get lucky with the build honestly

I never get hammers or hearts

and terrible boons

[flint widget]

do u have rerolls

[turbid crescent]

nope

[flint widget]

well that explains it

[patent locust]

Hera or demeter attack for moros ?

[flint widget]

just deal with it for a while

[obtuse roost]

I think blades works well with most gods tbh

[turbid crescent]

I'm almost there tho