h2-builds-and-combat

[sage flame]

so a max roll on a dagger strike would kill a normal person, sounds right enough

but also something tells me using dnd damage scaling doesn't make a ton of sense

[elfin forge]

ah yes dnd damage scaling where you can tank more stabs by leveling up

Games are amazing

I wonder what character mel would play

[modern nest]

Toula frequently makes my top 5 damage report

[tall notch]

Persistence has been autoinclude since patch 1, moving that (or at least a part of it) to Mel's base health would be great

[spiral wadi]

tru, +133% hp at start is insane

[slate trench]

does success rate actually work with mutual destruction?

[pastel obsidian]

Hey people, is there any secret requirement to pulling Renewed Faith from Athena? Second-to-last prophecy and it's driving me crazy, since I don't use Athena keepsake under normal circumstances (usually disabled)

[sage flame]

having empty DDs I think

[pastel obsidian]

That would be reasonable haha but I've tried twice with a full set of dice and 3 spent DDs and nothing. Just unlucky? Setup is annoying....

[sage flame]

that sounds very unlucky

[surreal hazel]

Yes

[digital juniper]

in olympus you can get renewed faith even if you have DDs left

for underworld well you need to empty them out regardless to get her to spawn

[thin cloud]

Uhh how did I get 5 major gods in my pool, isnt the max 4?

[spiral wadi]

iirc random boons are able to give a random god not in the pool and then puts them in the pool

[thin cloud]

No like I had hestia, heph, aphro, and apollo and randomly came across poseidon

and obtained him

[spiral wadi]

was poseidon from a shop or a room reward

[thin cloud]

Room

Anyways, anyone got a fun build for aspect of Artemis?

[empty musk]

Play low/mid fear, get Sweeping Ambush, Apollo/Hera Attack and either Tranquil Gain, Ionic Gain, or Flood Gain + Dark Side

If you want a fun build viable at high fear I'm sorry it does not exist 😭

[thin cloud]

I will manage regardless

[thin cloud]

Why hera attack?

Also what else for the boon pool?

[empty musk]

The targeting of the omega (at least on controller) can be a little finicky so hitch ensures you're dmging all enemies no matter how far

Weed Killer can be good but just keep in mind you'll go from 30 cost to 40 cost

Aphro cast is good for gathering enemies together

[thin cloud]

So Demeter Posiedon Hera and Aphro?

[empty musk]

Yup that works

Maybe if you're gonna take Dem I'd swap Poseidon out for Apollo

That way you can also do Sunny Disposition

Dem × Hera Cherished Heirloom is also very good w Hecate keepsake if you can get it

[boreal skiff]

what's the best 10 fear vow?

[spiral wadi]

10 fear is super flexible, prob could just inch ur way up there with whatever u feel comfortable

[boreal skiff]

how would u have it?

[wheat thistle]

hmm maybe something like pain 1, Grit 1, wards 2, Menace 3, Return 1 and hubris 2? There's probably easier ones- up to preferences

[boreal skiff]

im kinda scared using hubris. do i target common boons?

[willow phoenix]

Mine is just rivals 4 lol

But with non rivals I would probably just go a mix of timer, shadows, menace, and fangs

[spiral wadi]

hubris is relatively free, u just gotta make sure ur taking more magick rooms

of course if ur not using omega moves anyway then hubris does nothing

[upper rapids]

At 10 fear theres like no constraints so experimenting and finding out what you like and dont like is way more important

[wheat thistle]

This basically

[boreal skiff]

thanks. i might try rivals 4.

...after I survive rivals 3 tho 🤣

or hubris when i get thirst on the club

[wheat thistle]

[spiral wadi]

would it be funny if hubris started priming hp instead of magick

[cerulean panther]

Depends, do you cap at 1 HP and can continue to Prime HP past that?

[wheat thistle]

It would be funny if you click Stalwart Stand and dies instantly-

Scar 3 but you clicked static shock:

[spiral wadi]

your run instantly dies when you click that unsuspecting rare boon

(tho realistically it'd probably leave u at 1HP at minimum)

[cerulean panther]

If you feel like doing hitless runs, go for it. But I'd take it even less than I do now (never after the half a run I just attempted).

[spiral wadi]

lol fair, thankfully i haven't played magick hungry aspects at high fear yet, and for weapons that are supposed to be magick hungry like torches i play them the completely wrong way and it works out

prob will kick my ass when i touch like shiva or smth

[supple lintel]

id hate it but it would be pretty funny

priming all your hp and having to wait through all your dd animations would be great

[spiral wadi]

0 hp pin strat, clear every room within 10sec

now that's my vow of time

[tall notch]

The fact that mortal gain got removed and no similar mechanic came back makes me think sgg didn't like priming health as a mechanic

[spiral wadi]

that's fair, it's like conceptually a cool mechanic i'd still like to see return in some way at least

[cerulean panther]

"So you want Mint Condition back, huh?"

[boreal skiff]

this anubis staff so hard to use

[tall notch]

Too late to be reworking fights like that but I kinda wish there was a boss that just primed your hp with some of the moves

[spiral wadi]

wait tru 👀

[tall notch]

which boss do you think it'd be the best thematic fit for?

[spiral wadi]

prob chronos, he'd be like "wounds heal over time, but not now"

[tall notch]

So true

[spiral wadi]

i just feel like it kindaaa falls into totk moment where ||ganon does "prime" your hp by literally destroying ur hearts, the problem is that it doesn't really uhhh do anything||

[tall notch]

I haven't played it and i may at some point, so I won't click that

[spiral wadi]

ye it's a pretty decent game, would recommend

but yea i think it'd weirdly make strength the most viable option assuming 100% of dmg is converted to prime

[tall notch]

That's a reverse of Polyphemus liking DDs because of how poison works so I actually dig the idea of boss design encouraging strength

[spiral wadi]

tru 👀

[lusty badger]

Hello, is there an equivalent to cursed slash in hades 2?

[median anvil]

nope, but staff has a hammer that heals you for oattack kills

and there's a hidden aspect that can heal you similar to guan yu

[lusty badger]

on staff?

[median anvil]

no the healing hidden aspect is for ||the axe||

[lusty badger]

thx

[tall notch]

Also not a weapon but one of the gods you've probably not seen yet has a boon where every attack heals you if you're below a certain hp threshold

[vague eagle]

@hollow prawn I second what you wrote in #h2-feedback about Snuffed Candle. I suspect there might be a visual indicator but if so it’s too subtle for me

[uneven palm]

Dash-strike is a way faster animation to start the zones. Good starting loop is dash-strike, cast, then special or especially Omega special to zorp things into your damage zone

[boreal skiff]

i've no problem placing the zones

but getting the timing right when to pull mobs in the zone

im hurt half of the time i pull dem armored doods

[uneven palm]

Ha yeah that’ll happen. Dashing away after specials since you just invited some things into your personal space is a good move

[tall notch]

Do Anubis builds these days rely on the oattack much?

[uneven palm]

I do em like if I have time between waves or on choke points or like on huge bosses

[wet pawn]

I hope they buff the aspect of hel base attack damage it feels too low for the surface but it's good enough for the underworld

[tall notch]

With something like Hecate (who lets be real is going to be my first roadblock when I try high fear Anubis), do you bother oattacking?

[median anvil]

the attack and oattack stack so it lets you double apply scorch

[uneven palm]

Very start of the fight, maybe. After that, narp

Maybe if I pinpoint her fast among the clones and she’s busy doing some rotating flames nonsense

[tall notch]

in intermission phases, do you bother placing one down somewhere before the witches spawn?

[uneven palm]

Hmm, dunno about that. The witches are sometimes so spread out and an Omega attack is kinda overkill for them. Also when they’re spawning is often mid-projectile vomit

Could gamble that one will spawn on top I suppose

I’m very mid at Anubis so don’t trust me btw

[median anvil]

i always trust whatever i hear on the internet

[uneven palm]

Ha! Like I have a bazillion hours but folks are still surprising me all the time with this game with novel stuff that works

[median anvil]

does aphro cast actually being very good with aspect of circe count as novel stuff

i see everyone glaze zeus and hestia but aphro goes hard on it

[uneven palm]

Aphro is underrated there. Pom scaling is a little nutty, it hits the area, clumping baddies is seriously useful for a buncha aspects

Weak good too

[tall notch]

Wish you said that sooner

[tall notch]

How do you deal damage? Does it actually scale or did you just rely on your attack/special

[boreal skiff]

when can i safely stop mid-run? so i can touch grass and not lose progress

[sage flame]

should be able to just pause the game, otherwise if you have to close the game it saves after every encounter after defeating the encounter and choosing a reward iirc, then you can quit (not give up)

[glass bone]

Shop rooms, NPC rooms, and the rooms in and 2 after defeating a boss (no after for the last of each route obviously).

[median anvil]

i had demeter attack zeus special and aphro and it went great

the damage falls off bad during the final bossfights though

it's better for encounter clearing

[tall notch]

Yeahhh I'm not clearing r4 with that then i guess lmao

[median anvil]

blitz carries then

[random crane]

extended family affects things like scorch and blitz right?

[uneven palm]

Yes

[random crane]

aight

and for hera and zeus's duo does that take away their respective legendary and infusion boon?

[spiral wadi]

iirc for duos it's if u got them from hera's selection

like if u got a hera duo from hestia drop then it won't count

not sure about legendary/infusion

[willow phoenix]

Legendaries and infusions should get consumed by ransom

[formal pulsar]

Hera legendary will go but not the infusion it gives.

[limber swan]

if i wanted to do a vengeance build, what gods would i be going for

as far as boons that help tank -> demeter infusion and hera/hephaestus duo are good

but those three gods dont have vengeance effects

zeus, poseidon, and apollo seem like they have the better vengeance effects?

[digital juniper]

usually with those you just wanna go heinous affront

unless you want to run an “afk” build

[jade raptor]

Do any of you still use the moon beam keepsake on surface runs? Im not like a high fear rin person, so I dont care much about high fear advice, but im not seeing as much room to take it when there are better keepsakes

[elfin forge]

selene aspect

[jade raptor]

Yeah, the selene keepsake

OH NVM I know what you mean

[elfin forge]

lol

[jade raptor]

I forgot about that for a minute... whos your favorite/the best god to pair it with?

Ares is fun IMO, but I feel like theres way better because of the nature of ares boons

[stable herald]

Moon Beam is a great pick for Thessaly if you got all the gods you need in Ephyra

[uneven palm]

Yeah powering up a hex on the surface is way easier too since Shrines can have upgrades for cheap

[jade raptor]

Fair point

[hollow tartan]

poseidon doesnt have a vengeance effect, unless you count high surf, so its better just going for heinous affront with divine vengeance and light smite

[surreal hazel]

Light smite is the best vengeance boon by far

[surreal hazel]

Check the path you get first. (Highlight it on the sidebar and press Y on xbox controller)

Take the moonbeam if you have one of the good paths

[hollow tartan]

the better of the 2 that exist

[surreal hazel]

the three

[hollow tartan]

visceral doesnt count

[surreal hazel]

Technically false

(And actually kinda funny with night bloom)

[tall notch]

Is unseen ire counted as a vengeance boon

[hollow tartan]

visceral only good if u get both heinous and the legendary

[hollow tartan]

it procs from heinous affront so yes

[surreal hazel]

Yes!

But isn't a valid pre-req for heinous affront

[tall notch]

That's got to be the strongest revenge boon right

[hollow tartan]

before it was nerfed, yes

[tall notch]

It got nerfed? Still seems crazy to me

[surreal hazel]

I'm not sure if it works with Consequence or whatever the night bloom upgrade is called

[hollow tartan]

they changed the text on unseen ire a few patches ago but didnt nerf it ingame, then they did last patch

[surreal hazel]

Strong choice, but light smite is still obscene

since it is a massive AoE damage per proc

[hollow tartan]

pre nerf unseen ire had crazy uptime

[surreal hazel]

Divine Vengeance is kinda pathetic by comparison

[hollow tartan]

i got my first 40f with ares lego and heinous affront (pre-rivals)

light smite carried

[surreal hazel]

it absolutely does

it's funny in some situations with Consequence if you have your summon standing in lava or some other ticking damage

and just becomes a light smite machine, or a blood pinata

[willow phoenix]

Unseen Ire doesn't work but Defensive Posture and Self Healing does funnily

[surreal hazel]

Self-Healing does weird things

I saw it just spawning a pile of green +1hp over my summon once

like REALLY frequently

and seemingly without end

[willow phoenix]

The problem with Divine Vengeance imo is that high rolls usually don't do much due to how the lightnings are spread out over a period of time

Like rolling a 10x Divine Vengeance should really be much more impactful lol

[surreal hazel]

100 damage isn't actually a lot

[surreal hazel]

What's even worse is that only the final strike of that rolls a chance for double strike

[willow phoenix]

That just seems like a bug lol

[surreal hazel]

no it's quite deliberately written that way

there's no way the script was accidental for that, but you might argue that it's bad that way

[hollow tartan]

spawns counts for vengeance?

thats insane

[surreal hazel]

With the upgrade that grants them that

[hollow tartan]

still its pretty cool

[surreal hazel]

it is when it is, but you can roll that upgrade when Zeus, Apollo and Ares aren't even appearing on your run

[hollow tartan]

does the night bloom upgrade count for the sun worshipper taking damage or just the hex spawned one?

[surreal hazel]

Just the Hex Spawned one

[willow phoenix]

Just the hex

[hollow tartan]

ah

[surreal hazel]

Sun Worshipper is correctly compartmentalised in how it behaves

[willow phoenix]

There's also the much inferior Moon Water revenge build

[surreal hazel]

ugh, that

[willow phoenix]

That is somehow still in the game

[hollow tartan]

i only upgrade moon water if theres conservation

i love conservation sm

[willow phoenix]

Ngl I think Moon Water without conservation is good, makes you not hoard it

[surreal hazel]

Ah, I was naming it wrong, It's Retaliation for Night Bloom

[hollow tartan]

if u get panacea its also really good

[surreal hazel]

Tribulation is the Moon Water Equivalent and uuuugh, it's bad

[hollow tartan]

especially against typhon when u take 40+ damage a hit

[willow phoenix]

Yes Moon Water bright upgrades are all pretty strong

It's sublime though lol

[surreal hazel]

All three sublimes are just what

[hollow tartan]

idc about those

[surreal hazel]

one is literally just the discarded remains of Circe's aspect

[hollow tartan]

once i get conservation or panacea i just get all abundances and vigors

[willow phoenix]

The O cast one is decent damage tbf since it's guaranteed crit

[surreal hazel]

Saturation can be funny

[hollow tartan]

what does it do again?

[surreal hazel]

Hex fires an instant detonation Ocast with 100% crit chance

and if you're running posideon with it, you hopefully roll Gyserspout with it

[hollow tartan]

i never took it tbf

[willow phoenix]

The bright upgrade for invulnerability is also strong for i framing attacks. The other one gives like 50% global damage for 5 seconds iirc, which is also strong

[hollow tartan]

my favorite hex upgrade is the wolf howl temporary armor

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/852833387030380546/1410222560066408621/Screenshot_763.png?ex=68ba1eda&is=68b8cd5a&hm=280e3e1b107e2a1aaece0e9f285284e8e869898f0c22f65b5f20350303279b4a&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1521&height=856&
i was just spamming the armor everytime it ran out lol

[willow phoenix]

Something fun to do with Wolf Howl is how Smithy Rush works with Frenzy now, so you get a free blast for every wolf howl you do

[surreal hazel]

Panacea is kind of disgusting and genuinely better still

[hollow tartan]

is it a multiplicative x1.5 or is it additive with the atk/special boons

[surreal hazel]

why try to time an invuln when you have a Ctrl Z

[hollow tartan]

panacea is incredibly funny

[willow phoenix]

It's stupidly strong compared to the sublimes lol

[surreal hazel]

Easily could be Sublime itself

[willow phoenix]

It's additive but global, so strong for flat damage builds

[hollow tartan]

wolf howl armor is the best sublime imo

[surreal hazel]

They moved Tenacity to being sublime from a bright, and nerfed it, and nerfed it again, it's still good as a sublime

Same with Eminence

[hollow tartan]

wolf howl also has the bright upgrade that lets you fire twice in a row

[willow phoenix]

I like how Lunar Ray gets armor upgrade in normal upgrades lol

[hollow tartan]

its basically being invulernable

[surreal hazel]

Brutality, yes, and multiplicative with other brights

like Duality and Vicinity

[hollow tartan]

is it bright or sublime i forgot

[willow phoenix]

Sublime

[hollow tartan]

ah

[willow phoenix]

But doesn't work with the godsent sadly

[surreal hazel]

Brutality lets you use it twice, it's sublime, Duality gets double effect in just one jump... just it's just a Bright

[hollow tartan]

its still free damage

and taking no damage

[willow phoenix]

For how good Wofl Howl is it's sad that the godsent is pretty much bottom tier

[surreal hazel]

oh Brutality lets you get a second proc of Lethality which can be OBSCENE

[hollow tartan]

lethality is hilarious

[surreal hazel]

You say that.... but it's actually comboable, it's a fully fledged heph blast and benefits from everything not called Chain reaction

[willow phoenix]

Doesn't backstab too

And can miss

And damage wise is pathetic compared to other godsents

[surreal hazel]

and the delay is just enough time to pop down a solar ring or arctic ring to enhance the relevant duos

[hollow tartan]

it works with cryo and rude awakening?

[surreal hazel]

YES

[hollow tartan]

oh hell yeah

[surreal hazel]

and grand caldera and furnace blast

[hollow tartan]

wolf howl is basically the best hex for high fear then

[willow phoenix]

Like the biggest damage I got it to is like 4.5k damage? Which is ok but Aphro and Hestia godsent can do that normally without other boons

[hollow tartan]

since moon water is kinda ass on scars

oh theres darkside too i forgot

[surreal hazel]

Hearth of Hestia is just kind of disgusting compared to everything

speaking of aphrodite, Sunny Disposition absolutely works with it

[willow phoenix]

Yeah but it's not really 3x damage

[hollow tartan]

because sunny dispo specifically says +2

[willow phoenix]

It's still very strong though

[surreal hazel]

you quickly hit the hearthrob cap unless you're in intimate range at all times

[willow phoenix]

Like 10k+ damage per godsent

[surreal hazel]

relatedly, air quality and Squall of Demeter.

[willow phoenix]

I mean, even then it's still not generating heartthrobs fast enough to truly be 3x damage

[hollow tartan]

do gale rush and cast both activate?

like having 2 gales at a time

[surreal hazel]

yes

three with circe

[willow phoenix]

Tropical Cyclone doesn't stack sadly

[surreal hazel]

yeah, that just checks if you're in a gale and spawns tornadoes

being stood inside two gales is still just "Mel is stood inside a gale"

[hollow tartan]

aq + chain lightning + gust cast + gust rush + chain lightning + support fire + demeter godsent (if you are on circe theres prom flare, glorious disaster, and meat grinder)

[surreal hazel]

Killing Freeze, we missed you

[hollow tartan]

was it a boon in early-early access?

[surreal hazel]

no, Hades 1

[willow phoenix]

I wish Dem Godsent applies freeze to all enemies also, like the current version is pretty meh imo

[hollow tartan]

what did it do

[surreal hazel]

if you chilled every enemy in the room, everything got a very nasty degen, not unlike squall of demeter

[hollow tartan]

i dont remember it since i rarely took dem in h1

[willow phoenix]

With AQ you get like 1k+ damage on all enemies which is good but when you have Hestia Godsent as comparison it's just bad lol

[surreal hazel]

Pyro Technique with Hearth of Hestia is just a room clear, the meteor impact is just celebratory fireworks in comparison

[hollow tartan]

meat grinder is kinda misleading since it does damage every 0.2s instead of every second as it says which it makes good with aq

[willow phoenix]

Yeah that's why if Dem Godsent applies freeze it would be awesome with other freeze related boons like Hail Storm, Winter Harvest, Cryo Pounder

[surreal hazel]

it applies chill

[willow phoenix]

Does it?

[surreal hazel]

yes, not freeze

[hollow tartan]

u mean gust

[surreal hazel]

it applies the same thing rigid rush does, there we go

[willow phoenix]

The description doesn't say anything about that though

[surreal hazel]

"Chill" makes more sense because "this enemy is chilly" makes more sense than "This enemy is gusty(?)"

[hollow tartan]

the one thing i didnt understand was the carnal pleasure nerf

[surreal hazel]

No, but the code does

[willow phoenix]

That's so weird lol

[surreal hazel]

enjoy your free room-wide status curse

[hollow tartan]

yeah its kinda weird since the status is called gust lol

[willow phoenix]

Might as well be freeze

[surreal hazel]

might it? That's called Stillness

(a sublime I have a love-hate relationship with)

[willow phoenix]

If it's Freeze it would actually have a synergy with other stuff

[surreal hazel]

might be why it doesn't

also would only work for 2 seconds, rather than the duration of the hex

[hollow tartan]

the critical on the time stop whatever its called hex is the sublime right?

[surreal hazel]

That's Precision

the other one is Stillness, which makes the hex go from inflicting half speed on everything, to quarter speed

[hollow tartan]

i like precision, its just free crit

[surreal hazel]

which is great right until the boss changes phase and that is running at quarter speed

[willow phoenix]

I mean Hestia's break the scorch rules why couldn't it just apply freeze for the entire duration

[surreal hazel]

Precision is +50 hex cost, stillness is only +30, it's like they know

[hollow tartan]

did they nerf righteous pikes in any way?

[surreal hazel]

Also Aclarity is SO GOOD on Phase shift

[hollow tartan]

what does it do

[surreal hazel]

+30% move speed, -30% strike time

[hollow tartan]

im assuming its additive with stuff like nimble limbs

[willow phoenix]

Doesn't work with possessed array anymore, I don't remember anything else

[surreal hazel]

so essentially just less than 50% damage output

[surreal hazel]

no, function speed bonuses multiply

so when I say -30% strike time, what I mean is "multiply function time by 0.7"

[hollow tartan]

thanatos axe, ares lego, nimble limbs, alacrity

i have to try this out

[surreal hazel]

would be 0.7 * 0.5 * 0.8 * 0.7 = 0.196

essentially attacking 5 times faster than mel axe

throw in the metallic droplet and fine tuning

[hollow tartan]

also the 20% faster attack hammer

[surreal hazel]

30%

and yeah, you gt down to.... 8.6% function time

or 11.6x attack rate

at that speed you're probably going to get some tickrate truncation issues

[hollow tartan]

i can only think of this build with grevious blow, mutual destruction and success rate

[willow phoenix]

@surreal hazel Do you know if Twilight Curse Decline is meant to work vs bosses or no?

[hollow tartan]

what does decline do

[surreal hazel]

good question

-5% hp when hex ends

[willow phoenix]

I tested it vs Typhon and it did nothing so I wonder if that's intentional or not

[hollow tartan]

it should i guess? bosses have the weird circle on the bottom basically saying they can get inflicted by it

[surreal hazel]

it should work

but it will be based on current hp

[hollow tartan]

still pretty good

[willow phoenix]

So should be a bug then since it's not dealing any damage

[surreal hazel]

I'm not seeing anything that makes it related to bosses

[willow phoenix]

Does reapplying Twilight Curse count as it ending?

[surreal hazel]

buuuut, if it's tied to the transformation

then it won't

[hollow tartan]

if a boss has 60k hp using it would do 3k damage

if it even works

[surreal hazel]

ah wait, yeah, here we go

Decline is tied to the logic that turns enemies back from sheep into their former selves

[hollow tartan]

ah so it doesnt work

[willow phoenix]

Bosses are pretty much its only use case since most enemies just die before it triggers lol, so it better work vs bosses

[willow phoenix]

Ah that sucks

[surreal hazel]

Also has Puredamage set

which I believe causes it to bypass all damage modifiers

[willow phoenix]

Interesting, thx btw

[surreal hazel]

rare flag

....shared by when Nem baps you in exchange for an item

(Basically means that when the menu says she will do "22 Damage" or whatever, she will do 22 damage)

[hollow tartan]

how is a 100% atk speed boost calculated, x0.5?

[hollow tartan]

like morrigans triad

[surreal hazel]

it's calculated mathematically correctly, as opposed to most other things, so yes,

[hollow tartan]

what about an 80% atk boost

how much would it multiply the attack rate (dont mind me sucking at math)

[surreal hazel]

You'd think that, woudn't you

[surreal hazel]

80% boost from blood?

[hollow tartan]

yes

[surreal hazel]

I mean, put it this way

if it says +80%, you're doing +80% more attacks in any given timeframe

this is why it's the matematically correct way to put it

[hollow tartan]

once i get home i need to do a thanatos max atk speed build

[surreal hazel]

but if you want to convert it into a fraction to multiply with

1/(1+Bonus%)

where the bonus% is converted into a decimal

so 0.8 for 80%

the other attack speed bonuses are (1-bonus%)

[hollow tartan]

ah so thats how it works

[surreal hazel]

so "30% Faster" on rapid slash means "Multiply by (1-0.3)"

this is also why increasing the value on a single boon matters more than you think

going from 30% to 45% on than by getting Heph's legendary is functionally the same as getting a +22% faster attack speed bonus from somewhere else

and thus the difference between Epic -> Heroic On nimble limbs is more important than Common -> Rare

(and probably why hermes boons are unpommable, since there's no real way to make the scaling not broken)

[hollow tartan]

imagine pommable artemis for pressure points + success rate xD

[willow phoenix]

Maybe with enough poms Death Warrant can actually be useful

[hollow tartan]

i hate it so much

[willow phoenix]

I really don't like why the game has 3 different Marked effects with differing values

[hollow tartan]

raki, death warrant and?

[surreal hazel]

Artemis, artemis and birb

[willow phoenix]

Heracles

[surreal hazel]

Artemis has her own mark duting the npc event

[willow phoenix]

Oh so 4

[hollow tartan]

can you get 3 markeds at once, raki, artemis and heracles?

[willow phoenix]

Afaik the presence of something like Heracles disables any other Marked effect

So your boon/raki just doesn't work for that room lol

[floral mason]

Can a second hammer suggest the same upgrade as the first one?

[strong matrix]

A lot of people refer to reinforcement units in bossfights as ”ads”. What’s up with that? What does it stand for?

[austere trail]

I've always thought it was short for "additions"

[surreal hazel]

As in roll choices you didn't take the first time? Sure

[tall notch]

Additional enemies, it's old mmo slang i believe

[surreal hazel]

Adds, as in, additions

[digital juniper]

theoretically, romantic spark on supay sounds very strong, right?

[median anvil]

yes

[surreal hazel]

And practically

Nexus rush Bizarrely works well here

In fact it's kinda funny how nicely blitz and hitch play together, despite the way the duos work

the slight delay in blitz gives you more time to spread hitch, the big hit on blitz often is enough that the hitch spread triggers their blitzes and everything just dies

and any overkill on blitz still counts for hitch

[formal pulsar]

Best supay build by far imo is blitz scorch (on attack and special in whatever order) with their duo and nexus sprint for hitch/damage and enabling king ransom with glamour gain to enable both romantic spark and burning desire.

[surreal hazel]

but even if you don't hit king's ransom, still pretty tasty with Nexus in play

and swift runner

[formal pulsar]

Ransom is more like funny numbers will happen if I take it but the build is strong otherwise

[surreal hazel]

yeah, ideal just before a big boss where hitch stops being as important

and you want to just do the Zeus cutscene yourself with pommed-out blitz

[digital juniper]

i’ll definitely be trying this out next, then!

[surreal hazel]

Yeah, doesn't feel like it matters too much if blitz is on attack or special

autofire seems to target the closest enemy?

[modern nest]

Does anyone run Judgement and the Oath that reduces grasp? Seems like a fun way to play....

[glass bone]

It’s for fun runs, old 51-53 Fear, and 63-65 Fear.

I mention these numbers of fear, because Void exists. Prior to Unseen, the max was 55, with 5 of those coming from void. Now the max is 67, so 63-65 is Void 1-3 Judgement runs.

[formal pulsar]

It only matters if you are looking for biggest blitz pop with ransom. Attack scales better with Pom than special (15vs10 per after the 2pom).

Otherwise you only care about applying blitz which either applies and keep sprinting for spark.

[surreal hazel]

There's also the catchup point on attack vs special since special has a headstart on that

especially with rarity

[modern nest]

What is the build? Right column so it activates 3 of the zeros? Crystal Figurine to activate 2 more arcana or Gorgon Amulet to take advantage of the no DD?

[surreal hazel]

cannot parse, explain?

[surreal hazel]

Oh wait I see

Right column plus DD or Strength

right column has three 0 costers, so you get one more pick

[modern nest]

Sorry. More context. This is with 3 levels of void.

[surreal hazel]

so going with Strength or Death is basically your choice since they're so important

[modern nest]

So i only have 6 grasp

[surreal hazel]

unless you don't have the grasp, I can't re- ah

going down the right column gives you the most arcana active at the start, so if you can get through erebus you're on your way to having basically everything active by the end

that's not easy though

But the fact you get the Lovers active for Hecate or Polyphemus is a big plus

[modern nest]

I can always run gorgon and hope for some Death Defy from Athena

[surreal hazel]

probably still want to take the Frog with ye

or the furball

if you're praying for stalwart defiance then obviously go for no-magic aspect

[uneven palm]

The build is don’t run Judgement if you want some control

[wet pawn]

any aspect of hel build tips? I've been trying to use ares but it still feels too weak for the surface

[vague eagle]

I’ve been trying to wean myself off God Mode. Love the new toggleable setting, I’m slowly going from 80% to 60% to 40 at last run

It’s alarming how much health I keep losing with the lower settings. Definitely need to work on dodging better

[uneven palm]

Poseidon attack

[wet pawn]

Really? Poseidon? He's good for something?

[uneven palm]

He’s good for a lot of things. But especially Hel attack

[indigo viper]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/966770989121822724/1413614907785478215/obraz.png?ex=68bc92f9&is=68bb4179&hm=3aa8b4c9a2d83970073ad8149f688a83fcdb81cb3c87a5d75e056a309ba20be8&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1240&height=698
I'm glad that SG gives us option - keep my fav feature of vor Chronos or disabled it.

[spiral wadi]

never incantation it for aura

[indigo viper]

And for funny dialogues from grandpa.

Rly, my fav battle affected feature.
I hope there will be similar option (disabled or not) Typhoon hidden health bar or little Meli part.

Btw. I did my 2 or 3rd vor Chronos. I like that his p3 area is huge but annoys me that 3/4 fight was simply running (both of us - I and Chronos) in whole area and waiting when Grandpa stands for a few seconds fo doing dmg. xD

[digital juniper]

pyro technique and freezer burn have an anti-synergy, right?

[willow phoenix]

Yeah but if you have enough scorch damage you can actually do both tbh. You generally only want one of the 2 though

[digital juniper]

solved that issue by getting burning desire lol

[glass shell]

nvm read it wrong xdd

[toxic marsh]

question, in as little spoilers as possible, can somebody please tell me if there are any more hidden aspects besides the 3 you first get on every weapon?

like do you unlock a 4th aspect at some point?

[past salmon]

Yes

[toxic marsh]

gracias

[wet pawn]

hmmm what should I get for the rest of the build tho?

[weak hamlet]

Invest in the weapons you have. Max out one of each and then just keep playing and you'll get them.

[uneven palm]

Slippery slope, something on cast or special for Origination, Hera special is incredible on Hel, Poseidon’s duos with Ares or Zeus or Hestia are good, his Legendary is amazing here

[wet pawn]

tried it out and feels good

except I have skill issue and eris got hyper agressive and insta killed me

[wet pawn]

Can an enemy take damage for multiple dot at the same time?

[spiral wadi]

#h2-feedback message @glass bone sounds good but i feel like the suggested numbers would turn it into a purely supay boon cuz of how long it'd take to create a heartthrob, like 4 secs is still way too long for 40 damage

i think it'd be interesting if it spawned heartthrobs at the start and stop of dash/sprint to maintain the uniqueness of it, so you're still encouraged to be near enemies

[glass bone]

I was mainly thinking that if the Rush created Heartthrobs, it should not be significantly stronger than the existing Heartthrob generator

[spiral wadi]

like the problem is mainly heartthrobs not being able to be spawned as quickly, and 40 damage is uhh just use poseidon

or zeus lol, continuous lightning strikes at 30 every .35sec on epic iirc

[glass bone]

Oh…

Somehow I thought the heartthrobs were base 40.

Oops.

[spiral wadi]

nah heartthrobs scale starting 80/120/160 iirc

might be 80/100/120, i never get it anyway lol

[glass bone]

It’s the latter

What about 8/6/4/2 for 80 damage?

[spiral wadi]

if i wanted to deal with pom timer i'd rather use heph

he has 200 dmg every 10sec at base

[glass bone]

Yeah, but like… Seismic Servo value.

[spiral wadi]

yeaa but even at max 1.35sec, 80dmg isn't beating 200

[glass bone]

True…

[spiral wadi]

like yea conceptually spawning heartthrobs while sprinting is cool but i think if we're staying timer route it should stay at like 1sec or 0.8sec or smth, then scale heartthrob damage from there

[glass bone]

60 base heartthrob, 20 per rarity, and Poms adding 10 per level?

[spiral wadi]

seems legit

should also only spawn heartthrobs near enemies for island getaway value

[glass bone]

The other idea I had though was to make it apply Weak.

Like the scaling of damage is worse, but it’s a form of weak application.

[spiral wadi]

i think it should be a t2 where heartthrobs apply weak, then scaling increases weak duration

alternatively make it consume weak and deal more damage from consuming it, would actually make island getaway glamour work with legendary

[glass bone]

For the T2?

[civic ocean]

nah just remove the cap

[spiral wadi]

prob

[spiral wadi]

i mean ig the problem w uncapping is u'd camp and stack heartthrobs before going in

[civic ocean]

...so?

[spiral wadi]

with this u'd be encouraged to spawn heartthrobs continuously near enemies so they'll hit anyway

[civic ocean]

I guess yeah

[spiral wadi]

tho yea i'd take increasing the cap a bit

esp since apollo duo kinda hardcapped

[civic ocean]

thinking about Hecuba > Frinos on Nergal

[spiral wadi]

i've already abandoned hecuba on torches by not using as much magick, like if u can somehow do that on nergal go for it

[civic ocean]

Frinos is so good though for Hec and also for the hp with the healing

I just have to win those chronos fights

[spiral wadi]

tru

[civic ocean]

I was tired and didn't realize I was dash-releasing my Oatk

Nergal has this stupid thing where with Psychic Whirlwind if you manually release the spin and then dash you have Iframes but if you Dash out of the charge you don't

[brittle sun]

Anyone have any advice for VoR scylla? I've been trying 32 morrigan and just getting walled out by her.

[glass bone]

Focus on the back tentacles first, then deal with the tentacles in the middle, then the top, then the band members. If you feel it’s unsafe to kill the tentacles, go for one of the band members (usually not Roxy), and focus them. Do note that focusing Scylla will cause her to do a shell dash so you need to dash away when she gets to you.

For the most part, I’d say this repeats into Featured artist / phase 2, especially if Roxy is the featured artist, because her starting pattern does not reach the back tentacles.

[brittle sun]

Yeah the shell dash has really been catching me often. Thank you!

[glass bone]

She does the shell dash I believe at half HP per Phase (excluding Phase 3)

One more thing; if you can, try to lure Scylla into an area that is wide open before she’s dead in Phase 2. If she is against a wall, it will be much harder to kill her in the last phase.

[digital juniper]

I know its extremely situational, but what are the usual best circe (npc) boons?

[glass bone]

Personally I feel like the Animal Familiar boon and the size changing ones are probably the best.

A lot of the other boons Circe gives is RNG, and idk if you’d want to bank on it.

Like you could get Timer, or Pain removes from the Vow removing one, or you could instead get Wards removed on say, Exhaust Rider Mel Coat (when Wards barely mattered).

[digital juniper]

gambling% category when? aspect of perse and roll for black night banishment

but yeah i'd say those i have found to be the most beneficial. Who wouldn't want more girth

[glass bone]

Hey, I just had an idea. High Fear run but Persephone has maximized odds.

It would be fun for those not wanting to do High Fear normally.

[digital juniper]

Based on your discussion with Vytautuas, that's probably playing with a what, High A tier aspect?

[glass bone]

Yeah. Pyro Technique Persephone (or Blast builds) are ridiculous if you get a Pom jumpstart.

I mean, very few people will probably do high fear, so why not do something a bit more silly?

Other idea I had for a new Chaos Trial is playing Nergal with a lot of HP, and the 4 Chaos curses that make you take damage per Attack/Special/Omega/Cast

In other words, you have to manage your damage output against your HP bar.

[indigo viper]

I did for fun my probably first Artemis' run. I aimed for Aphro's legendary and get it.
And honestly - maybe it is skill issue but both Artemis' aspect and Aphrodite's legendary feel awful for me.
Riposte has too long cd which cannot be decreased (Heph/Pos duo don't work on it) it's stupid that I can use only 1 instance of block and I have to wait to use it again. And the limitiation in number (9 strikes) instead of seconds, for fast attacked weapon, seems stupid - deplenish too fast.
For Aphro's legendary - I don't undestand their concept - why should I aiming for this legendary when i could get 2 boons with curse status, get better syngergy, duo access and in lessen cost? Why should I need enemies affected by 3-4 curses (which mostly don't benefit each other - why stack blind, frozen and hitch? Why this isn;t around her Heartorbs or weak status?

[hollow tartan]

because her legendary is cool and funny

[indigo viper]

Others are funnier, esp Dem with her lines when triggered it.

It's quite wasteless that her legendary isn't tied to her status and it's kinda useless/worthless.

[toxic marsh]

tysm. grinding my aspects now

[spiral granite]

Hey guy's, any build sugestion for Mel Skull? I honestly cant think of something that would be good for how it works

[toxic marsh]

me either bro

i didnt realize how bad i was at making builds until i started doing chaos trials and experiencing the perfectly synergized builds it gives you lol

[uneven palm]

Big percentage attack, throw something like Zeus or Heph on special. Pepper enemies with attacks mid-close, tap special to retrieve quickly and start again. Fetching, Bolstered Array are good, Possessed is amazing but you need magick, early Wide Grin pivot to more O attacks

[spiral granite]

Does Exceptional talent still works on Possessed?

[spiral granite]

Used Hera atack, Heph special
Despite been my first ever clear with mel skull, it was my personal best, at 21 fear 17:39.19

[uneven palm]

Yes

[placid saddle]

are there any cool/good builds for aspect of moros? the ghosts are really fun

[tall notch]

Hera atk Zeus special is a classic

[wild pine]

If you can get wide grin then Apollo Lego is nuts

[olive sphinx]

And then sacrifice all Hera's boons with kings ransom

[indigo viper]

It's funny for me that usually no matter what I do, blitz it's always 1 or 2 source of dmg.

[uneven palm]

Blitz stronk

[safe notch]

https://i.imgur.com/PSGVG6n.png

my Favored arcana setup

[past salmon]

<@&456908176877551658>

[indigo walrus]

begone, bot

[past salmon]

Thx

[tall notch]

Come on the arcana isn't that bad

[glass bone]

No I think there was a spam bot in this channel.

Or was that a joke?

[glass shell]

no, failing to use the full reroll corner is a bannable offense, see #readme-first

[restive bolt]

is it ever possible to proc backstab damage on typhon?

[glass bone]

I believe the answer is No

[spiral wadi]

they should add frontstabbing

[restive bolt]

seems odd to me that the weapon and aspect that mel is most associated with doesn't do anything to typhon, but i guess she's not supposed to be up there anyways

[uneven palm]

Specials on Mel Blades will backstab Typhon on the return

[spiral wadi]

o nice

ig no one plays mel blades enough to verify smh smh

[glass shell]

yes

specials like said above and sometimes explosions cause backburner +heph blast still works for some reason

[spiral wadi]

since psychic leash can backstab w daze t2, can it also backstab typhon with raki

[glass bone]

There’s 2 clears for Mel Blades on crossroads in UW, and next to nobody plays Surface.

Even I feel like I don’t know the best Mel Blades strategy, but a 62 clear was done ig

[spiral wadi]

ye, unfortunate cuz it was a fun weapon in warsong

[severe dust]

I'm curious for preparing for higher fears (16+), is Nergal the premier axe to be using generally speaking, or would Charon's be best? Any boon pairings would also be appreciated

[cerulean panther]

I used Nergal to first beat 32 VoR4, but Charon also works very well. Nergal wants Eternity (I deactivate the Lovers to maintain the Queen) and you spam your spins. It's got good survivability once you figure out how to best position yourself while spinning2win, but Charon hits significantly harder.

Apollo is great for both, Attack on Nergal and Lucid Gain on Charon.

[severe dust]

Thank you so much! 🙂

[cerulean panther]

It should be said that Charon can also play very safely with Omega Special spam at range.

But getting in close and getting Charon Cast pops is a big part of your damage. I also forgot to mention Poseidon and Geyser Spout for Charon.

[wild tartan]

Hey everyone
Does someone has any recommandation for Shiva's aspect ?

[hollow prawn]

i literally came in here with the same question rn

search function says apollo on attack and big mana regen / hecuba, apparently

[sage flame]

basically

id also say stack channel speed if you don't intend on blocking a ton

but counter supreme is a good hammer so do with that what you will

[wet pawn]

so aphro mana regen is great for shiva

[sage flame]

my super awesome 8 magick/sec looking at my spamming 40 magick ospecials

oh that reminds me, chaos magick reduction (talent I think?) is also good, even with hexes cause you use so so much magick

[wet pawn]

what magic regen is better than that lol

[sage flame]

anything to make you not wait 5 whole real life seconds per ospecial

[tall notch]

play Nyx instead

[wild tartan]

Thank you guys ! I had a mad Chaos mana regen that allowed me to spam otechs like crazy
And Aphrodite isn't too bad on the attack too

[wet pawn]

bruh most of them are worse

[glass bone]

If you want a really good Magic regen, there is Flood Gain

[wet pawn]

thats posseidon right

[glass bone]

Currently there is no way to prime out with Flood Gain provided your magic limit is more than the cost of the move, but there will be moments where you cannot regain it

So if you have like… around 60 magic, you will always be able to use your Omega Moves (on intervals)

[wet pawn]

makes sense

and it can be pomed to reduce the cooldown right?

[glass bone]

No. It increases the time period of infinite magic

[wet pawn]

oh interesting

[glass bone]

There is an automatic 8 second cooldown

[wet pawn]

so for shiva the best attack is apollo right? what about special

[glass bone]

Basically, when you use an Omega attack, you can use Omega moves “for free” on the boon description. Then there’s an 8 second cooldown before Flood Gain is available again

[glass bone]

If you want a 1-button combo, there is Hera Special

Hitch as a whole is one of the best statuses / curses in the game

[wet pawn]

makes sence her curse is good

[wet pawn]

interesting, I'll try it out and see how it feels

[summer berry]

What's the general consensus of rankings for nocturnal arms and their aspects? I mostly play with Sister Blades and black coat but dont see the appeal in the non-mel aspects

[glass bone]

There’s like.. 3 other gain boons*, but they have trade offs of their own.

• Born Gain: You get constant infinite magic, but you can fully prime your magic
• Ionic Gain: You get full refills of magic, but have to go grab the summon and it too has a cooldown
• Unseen Arcana: You don’t need to pick up a gain noon and can take another boon instead, but Unseen does not regain magic while you are charging up an Omega move, and of course you have to trade some other strong Arcana for it.

[glass bone]

What specifically are you looking at for this lens? “Mid to High Fear” (32-50)? 62 Fear? Speedrunning? Casual / Fun flavor?

And also, do you have all aspects (including hidden) unlocked?

[summer berry]

I'm still early on in the game where i've reached the final boss in both routes but haven't beaten them yet so really for that casual/fun flavor of it

haven't unlocked any aspects or upgraded the mel ones to not waste any resources

as a frame of reference i only have the 2nd familiar unlocked

[wet pawn]

yeah posseidon seems to be the better option. also after getting posseidon regen and hera special there nothing else that good from them in a shiva build or is there?

[glass bone]

For the most part, Mel Staff is the exception in a lot of ways for the Mel aspects. The rest of the weapons have 1 or 2 aspects be considered either more fun or stronger than Mel. But all of the Mel aspects can clear 32, and 50 fear fine. So experiment and do whatever you like.

[summer berry]

coming from hades 1 i felt like the original aspects weren't the best

[glass bone]

For Shiva specifically….. No. But Poseidon and Hera have really good supporting boons (Tidal Ring for Froth, Sea Star maybe, Bridal Glow, Proper Upbringing, etc.)

[summer berry]

guess i'll just explore the rest

should i focus resources on unlocking aspects on unlocking concoctions?

[glass bone]

To be clear, Mel Aspects are considered far better than Zag Aspects. But there are a lot of people who prefer variants to Mel Aspects.

[summer berry]

yea i wanted to change out of zag's aspects immediately but i dont feel that way about mel's

[glass bone]

Do a mix. Incantations will obviously affect all weapons and runs, but you don’t want to just do all of your incantations with the same exact weapon and aspect

[digital juniper]

and that’s (assuming) without having them upgraded yet

upgraded mel aspects on quite a few weapons are considered quite competitive

[glass bone]

True. I’d say that Staff is extremely competitive, Blades is mostly competing with 1 specific aspect, and the rest can be good but may get outclassed at fears most players will not touch.

[digital juniper]

except mel axe

mel axe is sadly not great

[glass bone]

Hey, Mel Axe is good for a first clear

And it can clear 24/32 and I guess 50.

Not so well when the near-max is pushed

[digital juniper]

oh yeah i agree (and the facts state it), that all mel aspects are viable in all the “normal” scenarios

[glass bone]

But most people who speak a lot here are not normal, nor participate in normal scenarios

[digital juniper]

but especially for axe, the 3 other aspects are objectively straight up better, aren’t they?

[glass bone]

Not sure which one of Mel Axe and Thanatos is better. Probably Thanatos, but there is a trade of faster damage for survival

But the other two. For sure

Still am hoping for some day where a tier list for 62 can be finalized whenever the game is done with balance patches and we get all 62 clears.

**if all weapons are even possible anyway

[summer berry]

yea ive been mostly focusing on concotions and i feel like upgrading aspects might help clearing the game more

[summer berry]

which aspect in blades do u think compete with mels

[digital juniper]

what are the missing 62s now? eos and 1 other only i think, right?

[glass bone]

The hidden aspect

[glass bone]

Well it depends on Surface or UW

For UW, it’s 2 axes and a coat aspect. For Surface, it’s the same but trade in the coat for two torches.

[digital juniper]

the great thing about the game is that there are so many ways to get stronger, incantations, upgrading weapons, upgrading keepsakes

besides the learning curve that is both build making and actual combat

[glass bone]

I’d say the Hidden aspect is better because of how it changes the blade moveset, but out of the 3 “normal” blades, Mel I think is the best at higher fears

[digital juniper]

for UW, than and mel? i think i recently saw a charon clear

which coat aspect is it?

[glass bone]

Selene.

[digital juniper]

personal opinion too but the hidden aspect is also so much more fun to me

[glass bone]

Momus also just got cleared today

[summer berry]

yea im definiately seeing that more in hades 2 vs 1

[digital juniper]

oh yeah, Vyt got it, right?

[glass bone]

I was aiming for it, but now I feel like I’m gonna go do something else

At-least I got the first Mel Blades 62. It’s not a very good run looking back, but it’s a first I shall take

[summer berry]

when does mel find the concoation to unlock the hidden aspects

[digital juniper]

yeah i saw you talking about it and putting in some attempts before they got it

[glass bone]

Much later

[digital juniper]

it’s not that late but it’ll take you a bit, yes

[glass bone]

You will need to unlock every aspect for a weapon, then get a rank 5 aspect

[summer berry]

oh so kind of the same deal as hades 1

[digital juniper]

yeah, but the nice thing is that upgrading aspects is much more accessible than h1

[summer berry]

yea and i feel better upgrading mel's aspects than the others then i did in hades 1

[glass bone]

Furtherest I made it to was Sirens.

[summer berry]

thanks for y'alls help

i'll prob focus on upgrading mel's aspect for twin blades to get deeper into the game before i venture around

[summer berry]

what's the fastest way to acquire fate fabrics?

[glass bone]

Have you received an Obol point?

[summer berry]

yea is that the fastest?

[glass bone]

Yes. The rest are either one-time collections, or received by NPC interactions from Arachne and Narcissus

[summer berry]

gotcha so obal and bones exchange then

[glass bone]

Oh wait

The broker is another option

Just do a mix of the two

[digital juniper]

TIL its called an obol point

[summer berry]

What's the best attack duo boon for high damage or dps?

[median anvil]

probably thermal dynamics

zeus hestia duo

[glass bone]

There is also Sun Worshipper (Hera + Apollo), and if you have something like Mel Axe or Mel Staff, Island Getaway for consistently hitting the high damage on an Aphro Attack / Special.

Island Getaway itself does not give bonus damage, but it means that Aphro’s bonus damage always applies

[summer berry]

should mention for sister blades

[glass bone]

Then either Thermal Dynamics, or the duos with Heph and Hestia / Apollo

[summer berry]

i've been mainly running pos for wave strike

but it doesnt seem to have any good duo's

went with wave strike cuz i feel like it does good damage in mobs

[glass bone]

How many boon granting gods have you seen thus far?

I.e. Not Artemis, or Hades

[summer berry]

all but ares

[median anvil]

poseidon ares duo will be great for what you're trying to do

[glass bone]

Ares and Poseidon have the only wave duo

[summer berry]

yea but ares might be a few more runs away cuz i havent gotten past prometheus yet

[glass bone]

Then I’d say switch to another build for now

At-least till you find Ares

[summer berry]

yea probably aphro or hestia imma guess

[glass bone]

Hmmmm… Maybe? Mel Blades already has a really good Percentage boon, and I was saying that for weapons with high base attacks

I guess there is an OAttack Mel Blades build with Aphro Attack

[summer berry]

percentage boon?

oh the backstab increase?

[glass bone]

Didn’t mean to say boon. My bad

[summer berry]

so who'd you suggest then

[glass bone]

Hephaestus Blast Attack / Special + Hestia and Apollo duos with Heph, Hera Special into Trick Knives, or Blitz Special with Thermal Dynamics

[summer berry]

is heph's blast attack that good?

[glass bone]

The only issue with Heph now is you have to get a whole bunch of poms and first take his keepsake for a Heroic / Epic start

[summer berry]

ah so when the recharge is super reduced with the poms

[glass bone]

You want to drain the cooldown as low as you can (to 2 seconds), and then constantly cause the explosions

[summer berry]

well i only have zeus hestia pos and apollo keepsakes rn cuz i've been proiritizing the other ones

so i'll prolly run with thermal til i get the rest of the keepsakes

[glass bone]

Ok

[summer berry]

to the surface i go

hopefully i get heph as an option so i can get his keepsake

[ebon reef]

Is hades counted as a boon giver for extended family?

[surreal hazel]

Yes!

he gives boons, he's just not an olympian

[ebon reef]

There goes my dream for a complete extended family run. Thanks for the info 😂

[surreal hazel]

Sadly, but you can get 12 in one run, potentially

realistically requires Hera's Legendary

Needs you to highroll getting artemis somewhere, forcing Athena to spawn with her keepsake, getting All Together to give you 4 infusions from gods you don't have on your run

heck you could probably get 13?

Artemis, Athena, Hades, Hera, +3 naturally spawning olympians, Hermes (Say, Zeus,Ares, Hestia), +4 infusions, (Apollo, Aphrodite, Hephestus, Demeter) +last one from a keepsake (Posideon)?

so you could get +65% olympian damage with an epic extended family, and somehow get rallying cry up for another 50%

or just eh... go for some other olympian improvements

[glass shell]

i just woke up, again, so i could be missing something but echo can give dio

[surreal hazel]

🤔

[glass shell]

so should be able to get 14 total

[surreal hazel]

Yeah, not seeing anything that excludes Dio's boons

Boon Boon Boon is such a dark horse option, it can do such weird things

Pretty much the only exclusion is has is not offering a core for a slot you've got filled

all other pre-reqs? Pfft, what are those?

Okay, you can have +120% olympian damage and the most dissonant build known to man

[glass shell]

and hades.

cause he doesn't count as a boon for this reason iirc

since he has a comment specifically excluding him as an option iirc

[ebon reef]

The closest I got on the surface is just missing either Dio or Artemis due to RNG. I always get Hera's legendary in the first area and just keepsake and luck my way with the ones not yet in the pool. Hopefully Hades' eventual keepsake would give boons lol

[surreal hazel]

A pointless exclusion, but hey, but he does count for Extended Family, so there's that

[glass shell]

hey man you could get deep dissent AND unseen ire

peak

[surreal hazel]

Dissent so deep you can't even see it

or IDK, they go down the Hades 1 route and make the keepsake grant call of hades, but be mutually exclusive with hexes

[glass shell]

what if deep dissent worked on other bosses due to scuffed coding

removed half the cerb adds he spawns

[surreal hazel]

Polyphemus, Unrivalled Scylla?

[glass shell]

dunno how you'd get dd in those but theoretically yeah

[surreal hazel]

Typhon, lol

"Rounds down the number of chronos entities spawned"

Prometheus loses his adds, (Unrelatedly I've noticed his adds are extremely dumb versions of those enemies)

(as in, they have one ranged attack, and only basic movement)

[glass shell]

well....

they are JUICED if you res them via night bloom/sun worshipper

because they only have that one attack in the code, guess what they constantly do

[surreal hazel]

isn't that because they just have one attack and don't waste time dodging?

[glass shell]

they literally machinegun

[surreal hazel]

yeah, I noticed that about resurrecting the yargonaut

againt typhon, that is

Guy's just john wick

[surreal hazel]

Sadly never going to be as good as reviving an Auto-Watcher with Rigor

[glass shell]

fortunately, you can't do that vs prom

[surreal hazel]

You can do it against Eris

Instant phase switch

[glass shell]

actually now that i think about it

why are cerbs asphodel minions not excluded from vow of menace upgrades

all other boss fight mobs are afaik

[surreal hazel]

Have they just not added any options to them?

[glass shell]

i've never seen a witch menace into a hippo, i've never seen the prom satyrs menace into rhinos

[surreal hazel]

Are they the same as the asphodel enemies or their own variant?

[glass shell]

no they have options, cause they do upgrade

just wondering why they have upgrades

as its inconsistent with other boss fights

and i don't think asphodel enemies normally upgrade either? though i could be wrong as i so rarely actually get it

[surreal hazel]

Fight needed to be harder I guess

either that or it's a quirk of them being the same enemies as in asphodel, rather than a sub variant

ah, they aren't a variant?

that's probably it then

Ah well, another Night Bloom win

Easily the most wonky Hex, but the most absurd

(Except lunar ray with contact can be a very funny room clear due to autoaim)

[surreal hazel]

Looks like they should. Cerberus just summons regular Asphodel enemies

[glass shell]

technically speaking asphodel is in biome 2, yet the cerb fight is biome 3 calling biome 4 enemies though

unless asphodel is breaking it somehow

by not being biome 2 and instead like some weird #

[surreal hazel]

Does that matter when summoning adds?

they're directly named

Biome depth should only matter for Menace, no?

(Or whatever calls in enemies from the next biome)

[glass shell]

idk tbh

just dunno if asphodel is actually oceanus or not

and that might be messing with what its calling, since it would be upgrading to MF enemies if it was oceanus

but it upgrades to tartarus enemies in cerb rivals

like i said i don't remember them upgrading in asphodel at all

[surreal hazel]

That might be why they're labelled as biome 4 in asphodel

so menace tries to look for biome 5, sees that there isn't one and doesn't try to replace them

but then I don't know how cerb rivals has you fighting tartarus enemies

wait no, easy, it's just looking at the biome itself

and asphodel is just listed as biome 4.... and I guess something blocks bloodless enemies being selected for replacements?

[vague eagle]

Anyone else miss being able to dash more than once in a row?

[tall notch]

I'm glad multiple dashes are gone, having one dash + sprint gave combat a more tactical feel

[glass shell]

no, hades 1 devolved into dashslop and lowkey ruined the game for me. theres a reason i have like triple the hours in h2

[surreal hazel]

Greatest Reflex gaming

[surreal hazel]

Also running feels better when just moving around levels rather than just double dashing to get everywhere

[sage flame]

literally same

[safe notch]

this is extremely late but i'm giggling at this. i should be in prison ....

[deep fog]

Did they revert the heph clanks getting boosted by Apollos back burner?

[deep fog]

Did a run and looks like it only applies once you get their duo boon active

[spiral wadi]

backstab blasts were supposed to be patched out but it didn't lol

i think it adds a nice layer of keeping in mind when u use blasts rather than just spamming it, unfortunate they rather not have that

[glass shell]

more that they just didnt do the fix in the first place

or if they did change something, it was the wrong thing and it didn't change. either way it never stopped

[spiral wadi]

whatever happened it also got aetos in rivals so we chill

[restive bolt]

has cutting edge applied to cut above this entire time?

[cerulean panther]

Yup.

[restive bolt]

i thought it was just sword ring and stabbing rush. this game is probably easier if you can read huh

[cerulean panther]

There is a lot of text.

Generally speaking a good way to approach the game is that if a Duo or Legendary has a boon as a prerequisite it will also apply to that prerequisite.

[spiral wadi]

ye, the only weird exceptions become what classifies as poseidon splash for froth t2

[digital juniper]

does apollo lego work with psychic whirlwind? visually it looks the same

without psychic you can see the 2x oattacks

[cerulean panther]

I don't think so.

[digital juniper]

unfortunate

[uneven palm]

It does work. On the regular axes it’s double damage, on Nergal it’s just longer which is how it used to work on the regular axes

[cerulean panther]

Neat!

[uneven palm]

https://youtu.be/lovfHRk_wSM?si=ptikdg56K74qXnBv jump to 21:00 if you wanna see how well it works

[spiral wadi]

holy they just melt lmao

[uneven palm]

Yep Psychic + Seething + Exceptional Talent + Night is pretty decent turns out

[oblique hazel]

just had a run with mel coat, level 5-ish heroic blinding rush, epic hasty retreat and ares legendary but for some reason i decided to leave rivals 4 on and died to kronos so i dont even have a screenshot to check the movement speed i had 💔

also had gale, nitro boost, wolf howl with like 4 urgency for another 20%, and i was eligible for heph legendary but got unlucky

[median anvil]

use steam background recording! it's super convenient

[lunar kiln]

which weapons is apollo legend weird with - does anyone have a list?

[uneven palm]

Uhh lessee, this is probably not exhaustive

Momus Omega attack you just get one more on the turret
Blades O specials you get more daggers but you’re stuck in place even longer
Torches it just doesn’t do anything for specials
Eos O attack pulses twice (good) but O specials end up getting split weirdly between you and the Daybreaker (bad, probably)
Coats I think are weird with the O specials like you don’t get fully twice the missiles
Shiva O attack the second punch is like zero Omega charge and no Destruction, so it’s super weak. I can’t recall if it’s the same on the regular coats

[acoustic tulip]

just hit the Hephaestus gold using supay aspect. hephs and poseidon combo is the best, i was blasting twice every second (chain reaction duo, seismic servo, sea star to grab as many pomes and feed heph's boons). supay seemed kinda weak to me before, but it pairs really well with these boons: u just blast 1000 damage every second to anything around. one of my luckier runs for sure. + getting as many dodges as you can (gale, hasty retreat) made everything a breathe. it was a 16 fear run in the overworld with the maxed out vow of rivals (honestly i've been dealing so much damage i could've beat a higher fear level, i got soo lucky)

[willow phoenix]

Regular coat O attack is fine and I don't think Shiva's 2nd punch is actually 0 omega charge, it deals even lower damage than that
O specials on coat only shoots 2 more missiles somehow lol
I think you can actually move during the 2nd salvo of blades O special, just not dash? At least with Pan
Anubis O attack also doesn't double but that might be intended since a 2nd O attack erases the previous one
Skull O special is broken
Nergal O attack also behaves differently from other axes

[surreal hazel]

Coat Ospecial is capped at only doubling the first two missiles of a salvo

[uneven palm]

Wowza what a weird boon

[uneven palm]

I feel like you looked into this once… with the non-Momus staffs + mirrored thrasher + exceptional talent, do you get 4 Omega attacks (2x2), or 3 (2 from Mirrored, +1 from ET)?

[surreal hazel]

ET adds one more at the end with whatever spacing is currently true

MT halves the spacing and adds 3 more pulses

so you get 7

[uneven palm]

Right, but on like Mel or Circe?

[surreal hazel]

You just get a double pulse

two pulses with a very short spacing, just like Ospecial

oh with ET And MT?

you get 4 I think...

[uneven palm]

Yeah, that's what I'm curious about

[surreal hazel]

lemme look

nope, ET just adds one more

so you get a triple pulse

[uneven palm]

gotcha, thanks for checking

[surreal hazel]

ugh, hang on, there's some legacy naming that miight be fuuuuucking with it

I... errr

[surreal hazel]

nope, wait ,no, it's 4

old internal names for each upgrade was throwing me off

[sage flame]

ponymenu time

[surreal hazel]

yeah, honestly, test it

[uneven palm]

really curious about blades/Pan Omega specials too if you're poking at it

[surreal hazel]

Not much to it honestly

it performs it as normal, and then repeats it after a small delay

assuming you're asking about ET

[uneven palm]

Yeah. Like are you stuck in place that much longer?

[surreal hazel]

not exactly, but if you dash it ends the move state so the second wave won't come out unless it's already started

[formal pulsar]

Haelian last video, am I crazy or did his own special damage him at 24:06

Prom fight

[digital juniper]

For Hel with pos attack, am i wrong to think its kinda lackluster unless you highroll his legendary?

just had a run and before getting his legendary it just felt...underwhelming

had arterial spray too

[uneven palm]

Did you have Slippery Slope? That and Orig being up makes a big difference, then yeah it wants Arterial or King Tide to be real silly

I think like Hestia or Zeus are stronger in the endgame if you don't highroll King Tide

[surreal hazel]

Sworn flourish improves it quite a bit too

That secondary can spread curses like crazy

[digital juniper]

yeah i got slippery slope and hers special early on, so that’s a good special and orig very early

arterial spray came later at mourning fields

[viscid patrol]

The vow of Rivals is a baffling thing.
It takes Eris, the biggest surface run killer in prior experiences, and makes her legitimately easier for my playstyle.
But then it takes Prometheus, the boss I managed to triumph over during my first encounter with him, and creates a whole new struggle that I've yet to surmount.

[lunar kiln]

zeus on attack? are you doing enough damage for constant blitz procs?

[hollow prawn]

generally speaking, is pomming hestia's scorch boons worth it and does it make any sense at all to take or keep multiple scorch sources?

[surreal hazel]

For silly coding reasons, pomming Smolder Ring is worth it

multiple scorch sources is not usually better than taking other cores, not when Hestia has much better T2s on offer like flash fry

[maiden hound]

why would that be worth it? I fail to see the difference here

[surreal hazel]

spaghetti

[maiden hound]

what does pomming it actually do

[surreal hazel]

When smolder ring, and only smolder ring, applies scorch, it multiplies the scorch you get by all cast, global and olympian damage bonuses

so when your pom adds 20 scorch, it's probably adding a lot more, making it very worth it

and you double dip there since scorch itself has a damage increase from global and olympian bonuses when it deals damage

[maiden hound]

interesting, though that does explain how smolder ring is always good for origination, even if it's not 100+ base (since scorch is 100 dps)

[surreal hazel]

yeah... with just origination

say a smolder ring adds 60 on its description

[maiden hound]

that's 90% uptime with another curse

[surreal hazel]

origination alone will make it add 90, and then when that scorch ticks down, it will deal 135

[maiden hound]

ohhhh like that

weird

does the same apply for furies

[surreal hazel]

it might not survive go-live, but basically this was an attempt by the devs to make cast damage bonuses actually improve smolder ring

[surreal hazel]

YES

[maiden hound]

oh, then it takes very little for full smolder ring uptime

is x1.5 and x1.2 from origination and furies respectively additive mult or multiplicative mult

[surreal hazel]

hence that first pom is worth it, a good smolder ring set up can easily have enemies hitting the 999 scorch cap

[maiden hound]

like is it ×1.7 or ×1.8

[surreal hazel]

furies is +30%, orig is +50%, so 80% more

strength would add 20% more still

[maiden hound]

oh, so additive
I could've sworn furies was just 20

the difference if it was 30% would be either 80% or... 95%

[surreal hazel]

so furies, orig and strength all together doubles the scorch applied, and if you keep them in your cast, that scorch is dealing double damage

so you're getting 4x the listed value on smolder ring

[maiden hound]

neato

[surreal hazel]

Yes, Pyro Technique is a good choice here, since you quickly overload on scorch

[maiden hound]

that explains a lot

[surreal hazel]

also has you on the stepping stones to Fire Away, if you like that legendary

since that has smolder ring as a hard requirement

[maiden hound]

it's a good legendary to have

[surreal hazel]

mixed opinion on it

since deletable projectiles are much rarer in h2 than h1

also glowing coal is one of the requirements (or controlled burn), and kinda fights against the defensive use of fire away

[junior trail]

yeah fireball boon is kinda unnecessary

[maiden hound]

makes sense

for why it'd be not so great

[surreal hazel]

Thankfully Flash Fry is still allowed in the other set

the rule is Smolder ring + Scorch enhancer boon + Fireball boon

but because flash fry used to need scorch, it was in that second list, and is still there after they removed that requirement

sort of grandfathered in, which is great because flash fry is GOOD

[maiden hound]

if flash fry were on the 3rd set... imagine

[surreal hazel]

hestia fireballs are a weird subset

if beachball didn't exist, then a fireball version of it could easily have been her sprint boon

to put a fireball into her cores

Fourth Degree is good though, just a shame there's not a lot else to combo with them

[surreal hazel]

I cry whenever I remember they removed Dying Wish as an acceptable boon for Hera's legendary

[maiden hound]

werid choice on their end

[surreal hazel]

yeah, the reqs look like it should be "Hitch boon, hitch enhancer, misc boon" but it's not

since the second set is hereditary bane and... rousing reception

the second one being there because Born Gain is also in the first set

Ares is "Damage dealing core + Source of blood plasma + unrelated support boon"

meaning you can use grisly gain in the second set, but you don't have to

[modern nest]

I don't understand how to use Aspect of Shiva. Trying to stand in my omega special then just my omega attack is so awkward. Especially hard with Frenzy Vow.

[glass shell]

Fire the omega special > fight in it with regular attacks

you don't NEED to omega attack instantly. but you can

use apollo so the AOE becomes disgustingly big hitting more or less the entire room unless its a big one

[uneven palm]

It’s a slower start but once you’ve got Origination up and Static Shock it’s basically instant Blitz

[surreal hazel]

Also you can just use the basic attack, the attack combo is 50, 50, 70x2

that third hit hits hard and twice, so you can just brawl with it

[uneven palm]

Yeesh that’s the base power? No wonder regular punchies feel so good

[surreal hazel]

base of what?

the other coat aspects? They just have a combo of 50 power in two punches

they used to be 30, 40 but it got buffed to 50, 50

oh wait, misread, you weren't asking a question

[modern nest]

Is my math wrong on strength, or is it just bad? 40% damage reduction vs 40% extra HP 3 times = 120% more HP. Both scale with HP increases. DD are also refillable and restore Majick (negligable i know). Str has a small damage boost and enables athenas trinket. What am I missing?

[glass bone]

It used to be a lot better, but now its main use is for that climb from 62 to 65, and if you need to sacrifice survivability for damage.

Also it is nice to use as a way to learn some bosses.

[spiral wadi]

the 40% dmg reduction basically makes all healing sources effectively stronger

[glass bone]

Oh wait, yeah. If you don’t have scars or pain, it is really good

[spiral wadi]

ye, the issue is that once u get into higher fear and u put on max scars, strength's a direct downgrade since 20% dmg buff does literally nothing

[glass bone]

Then why do it?

Well, tbh I know the reason why for Surface and some weapons

[spiral wadi]

i find there's way more fun in playing to dodge than playing for dds

[glass bone]

Yeah, but like… Pin. And also Last Gasp value

[spiral wadi]

it's just objectively a worse playstyle

[glass bone]

I facetank a whole load of damage and blow up grandad.

[spiral wadi]

yea dds have way more from npc gifts and gets to play around w pin

all strength really does is let u call athena whenever, which is cool but eh, when ur playing 3dds ur prob gonna drop them at some point midrun for athena

whether intentionally or not

i really wish pin worked w strength tbh cuz like, 10 seconds of invulnerability that instantly kills you afterward is objectively worse than 10 secs that'll drop a dd after

[glass bone]

Every time I take damage, it is intentional. It’s always for Mutual Destruction and Renewed Faith; so ignore all of the times where I take damage after I get Renewed Faith.

[spiral wadi]

not that i'd realistically take pin anyway but would be funny

[spiral wadi]

tru,

[sage flame]

if u about it gonion buff is a strength buff

[spiral wadi]

i'd rather they make armor work with strength again then let silken sash do +100 so it's not an arbitrary scars moment

[glass bone]

I agree. Strength has several costs in terms of Arcana right now:

1. It doesn’t work with Pin, or Lucky Tooth
2. You are required to take either an uncommon arcana or the whole left column for Divinity
3. Armor doesn’t work as well as HP
4. DDs in the last shop can still show up

I feel like reverting the stats of Strength, and either removing all DD refills from showing up without a slot, or letting armor work again, will make them more equal.

[hallow quiver]

i feel like ive done a lot of strength runs and never seen a dd in the final shop

that being said i do agree with your other points

[glass bone]

I swear I thought I’ve heard that before.

I don’t remember who said it though….

[spiral wadi]

iirc that only happens if u happen to have an empty dd from like tooth

otherwise dd refills can't show up w strength

[median anvil]

the issue with strength is that it was nerfed before the vow of scars was fixed

also considering the effect it had before the rework, i think sgg intended it to be taken alongside death, they didn't expect us to just yolo it

[spiral wadi]

8 arcana cost for both strength and death is quite a lot

[hallow quiver]

theres no way theyre expecting us to be taking both

[sage flame]

running both is tight tbh

[spiral wadi]

i like keeping both relatively separate cuz they basically offer entirely different playstyles

[sage flame]

yeah running both is basically just DD gameplay with the final life giving you maybe +1 extra hit to tank

[spiral wadi]

pretty much ye

[uneven palm]

Yeah that isn’t worth 4

[past salmon]

Athena really is the worst part of this game

[glass bone]

What kind of a rework would fix the problem?

[past salmon]

Kill renewed and stalwart
Idk dumb boons

[glass bone]

Isn’t Stalwart kind of necessary for 65 and 67?

[past salmon]

No?

[spiral wadi]

it's dumb esp when ur in olympus and have only lost 1dd, faith is still infinitely better than stalwart cuz it doesn't prime 100 upfront

[past salmon]

None of my 65s have stalwart iirc

And I had more than one run go Chronos P3 without stalwart on 67 too (I could probably reclear in not too long of a time)

My run that actually won only lost stalwart DD once iirc

[glass bone]

Eos does. And also the 67 did

Though I guess there is White Antler Strats for 67. Sounds like a nightmare, but it could happen.

[past salmon]

Why tf is antler being brought up as an alternative to stalwart they serve completely different purposes

[glass bone]

Because your clear iirc had used Stalwart Stand as a way to use Pin / timer stall.

That was getting damage in before Timer killed you.

Antler is also damage, but without that invincibility

[spiral wadi]

problem with antler is that if anything touches u, u instantly die lol

[past salmon]

Wanna know a secret
My run that cleared had the worst timer into Chronos out of any other run
So no, Stalwart is not necessary for timer stuff, nor antler

Turns out when the build you get is some cooked ah Poseidon special Hestia attack monstrosity timer goes less well

[glass bone]

I do agree that Stalwart Stand (and especially Renewed Faith) are a bit of a problem for higher fears (I myself am guilty of this, with 3/4 62 clears of mine relying on Renewed Faith); I am just trying to figure out any potential issues with removing those two boons. A lot of the other options of Athena (so I hear) is not as good. Maybe Renewed Faith and Stalwart Stand could be just nerfed to work like Echo’s DD refill, where each subsequent refill gives a bit less

[formal pulsar]

Issue with Athena is that it packs too much into one.
Compared to h1, it has divine dash, stubborn defiance and Patroclus dd refill buffs. All of this while being on demand AND rollable. This limits the space at high fear to DDs because if you can refill them on demand, you can afford to play “badly” in earlier zones and up to the third boss because you can guarantee a refill with Athena.

This combined with scars being fixed and strength no longer able to cheat through the healing and the many nerfs they have done to it (pin no longer working with strength, armor nerfs, DR nerf) made strength so weak with full pain and scars.

Why deal with scars with strength when you can just get a massive heal on demand with Athena?

[empty musk]

Guys bfr we're not deleting Athena, it would make casual players trying to beat low fear surface give up 😭

Real issue is the no dd condition and the current balance of Strength being outclassed by DD unless ehp is not a concern (except at 65f judgement)

Like that condition is naturally gonna put you in a scenario where Renewed Faith and Stalwart Stand are your best options, especially when all of the other Athena boons got nerfed

[spiral wadi]

actually tru yea, athena's keepsake only spawning with 0 dds does put way more value into faith

[empty musk]

Like the condition made sense originally when Strength wasn't nerfed and the offensive Athena boons were really strong

But it doesn't really make sense anymore besides ensuring maximum value from Renewed Faith

[glass bone]

So then perhaps the solution is just make Strength better, and make a few buffs to Athena’s non DD boons.

[uneven palm]

I would love those offensive ones to not be junk, that’d be nice

Otherwise these days I don’t touch Athena with Strength unless I’m feeling like some Stalwart cheese

[spiral wadi]

defensive posture is prob the only strength friendly gift athena has

it's the only one i take when i do use athena w strength

[glass bone]

What about Task Force + Strength?

Like would it be worth it for Selene, and like… Lunar Ray or Darkside?

[spiral wadi]

o the more-godsent gift is really fun to play with

it should be good regardless of strength/dd, but since natural athena is only in olympus and no-dd condition elsewhere kinda forces u to go faith or bust

tbh it's also that 1 godsent per room and 2 godsents per guardian is more than enough in most cases

i do kinda wish moon water godsent had smth going so it works at high fear instead of being like the one hex that's absolutely useless

[glass bone]

You’re right about it working with the high fear part. Another added to the list of scar bypasses!

[spiral wadi]

lol tru,,