h2-builds-and-combat

[past salmon]

this is why you never plan around hammers

[brave dove]

where I feel if you didn't get it in erebus you basically wanna hit experimental hammer oceanus and then try to get two hammers in fields from echo if she's feeling nice or artificer if you can hold it

[past salmon]

unless ur Nergal and wish to not have a rlly unfun time

[tall notch]

Hammer reliant aspects are cringe

[brave dove]

I got psychic whirlwind on my fourth hammer last nergal run 😩

[tall notch]

I could've done Mel skull 50f in my first 5 tries but bolstering refused to show up for over 20

[past salmon]

I mean its not like you couldnt clear it without bolstered

[tall notch]

Eventually I had to but it was way more challenging than it needed to be

[brave dove]

I will admit that separately from fear I think people who ask for specific builds to copy are acting like brainlets

[tall notch]

Also that was old skull so bolstered mattered more than it does rn

[brave dove]

most builds with basically any synergy can clear even very high fear, work on your fundamentals instead of spending three hours agonising over builds

[past salmon]

ok tbf when im talking about build recs for high fear im not talking about specifically like "get these 2 hammers and these 9 specific boons" type of build

[tall notch]

Hey i ask for builds for aspects I've barely played 😭

[past salmon]

more like "hey Zeus feeds into hestia really well, get thermal dynamics if at all possible and ur looking for double strike/static and pyro as ur secondaries

[brave dove]

tbf I don't mean 'which gods are good here' but like

anything involving a legendary or a specific hammer or multiple duos

[past salmon]

if hestia doesnt show up Poseidon/Aphro/whatever also works well here because of X boons etc

[tall notch]

If I were to make a build guide, it wouldn't be any more specific than the gods I want, some standout boons from em, best hammers

[past salmon]

like reccomending a "build" doesnt have to be lvl 80 kings ransom build liek

[brave dove]

it doesn't, you're correct

but a lot of the people who ask are looking for that-

dunno I feel like rather than build guides a synergy guide would actually be more useful

[past salmon]

I just think ur definition of build is different from mine

[brave dove]

the problem is no one would look it up on youtube because h2 players don't know what they actually want, they think they want tier lists as well

[brave dove]

it's about formatting is what I mean there - rather than presenting boons in conjunction with specific weapons you talk about boons in conjunction with each other with a side mention for things like what works well with fast and with slow weapons

just don't mention specific weapons at all because aside from a few specific ones builds aren't really unique to them

actually hm, what build does only work on one specific weapon

[tall notch]

Lucid gain Charon

[brave dove]

huh

yeah that's a good point, I mean I guess circe could use it...?

[tall notch]

No other aspect blows up its cast and gets anywhere nearly as much value from the gain

[brave dove]

though that's more of a specific boon, charon's ocast build is still good on circe and momus

[tall notch]

Also can anything that's not torches do the fine line/ocean swell spam?

[brave dove]

aspect of artemis, actually

[tall notch]

Wait what

[brave dove]

oattack artemis is a thing!

[tall notch]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitty-cat-kitty-blink-gif-27069194

[brave dove]

it's just usually kinda worse than a trick knives build but the oattack cast speed increase is genuinely quite significant

[tall notch]

Post a build guide for that pls

What 9 boons and 2 hammers do i need

[brave dove]

basically if you miss sweeping ambush you can pick up the usual omega move adders like cut above, fine line, ocean swell, weed killer etc.

if you hit sweeping ambush you need pretty good magicka regen to go for those on top though

[formal pulsar]

Possessed array skull?

[tall notch]

Do those still work on possessed? I know that was changed between patches

[formal pulsar]

Yup still works. Possessed just don’t charge your hex anymore, but it still fires all your omega stuff for the fixed price of 25magixk

[tall notch]

Cheers, Possessed was probably one of the most often changed hammers so I legit lost track of how it works rn. I rarely play skulls

[digital juniper]

how was possessed before? i only started playing with patch 11 and possessed is what makes skull insanely fun for me

[pseudo sequoia]

possessed used to "use" magick instead of "lose" magick, which essentially means you can't use it to charge your hex and im fairly sure also no longer affects things like heart throbs and righteous pike

it also used to only cost like 10 magick so it was kinda busted LOL

[digital juniper]

i haven’t gone too big into hex builds or heartthrobs so i wouldn’t have felt much

[digital juniper]

but this is insanity lmao

[sage flame]

hexes are so fun would recommend

[digital juniper]

i really like night howl, had a run go that had night howl and the duo that raises your last risen foe to fight for you

[uneven palm]

I do it on staffs, especially Mel. You can hold attack and dash into more omegas without the interstitial regular attacks, fine line hits the same general AOE as the Staff O attack, lotta good hammers for O attacks

[civic ocean]

Selene probably

[tall notch]

no, staff omegas only exist on momus and anubis, you aren't mininet

[civic ocean]

Night Selene anyways

Which may just be sucky at 50+ idk I didn’t have fun trying it yesterday

Coat specials might be my least favourite attack in the game

[uneven palm]

I’m mini pilled what can I say

[tall notch]

regular special is goated though

[spiral wadi]

i must be hallucinating cuz i really like using coat special

[left moat]

what're yall's favorite supay builds?

[median anvil]

hestia/poseidon sprint with blitz on either attack or special

[tulip pier]

is it possible to use cast while charging omega special on axe? i cant tell if its not possible or my inputs are the issue

[tall notch]

I don't believe it is, I've never seen it in other people's Charon gameplay and if you could I am sure people would do it

[vernal gull]

Alright, thank you

[civic ocean]

Its a me thing I don’t like it at all

[civic ocean]

No!

[upper rapids]

Goddamn i had such a good hel build and got hit by prom wave

Somehow i ran frenzy 2 and felt pretty good even up against eris but for prom my memory just failed me

[civic ocean]

It do be like that

Lots going on in prom fight

[upper rapids]

Only thing i couldve asked for that build to be better eas to not get both master conductor and thermal dynamics in the same offer lol cuz i had the denial vow

Otherwise was so good
I guess more hp wouldve helped too tho, wasnt that high up, didnt have persistence

Is icarus's supply chain ever worth taking

[olive sphinx]

maybe if you get it really early in Thessaly and if you have Sea Star

[civic ocean]

I assume it’s probably not bad on Heph blasts? If you don’t get the “+3 level but prime” option already

[upper rapids]

I was thinking of heph but i feel like heph builds also rely on supplemental boons a lot that arent that ideal to get pommed

[upper rapids]

Haha yes!

Goddamn they got me again

[upper rapids]

Oh god now i die to typhon damn so close

[spiral wadi]

does blast only proc glow on the primary enemy it hits, cuz i'm rewatching one of my fights and noticing even when prom and heracles are super close together, only one gets glow'd

[uneven palm]

It’s usually the “well I can’t spare the priming and I don’t want Hazard Boom” pick for me

[spiral wadi]

usually i only get the +3 if it's on like scorch or blitz, otherwise nuh uh

[uneven palm]

I’ll do it on Blitz, Blasts, or maybe waves

[spiral wadi]

island getaway aphro attack

[formal pulsar]

I miss the power Icarus buffs why did they change that? 😭

[spiral wadi]

my intuition says prob cuz there's a lot of power based hammers already

[formal pulsar]

20 power from Icarus plus reaper knives and Artemis special boon was my favourite thing in the game

Imagine that with island gateway Aphro special

[spiral wadi]

true 👀

[uneven palm]

I did something similar with Ripper Rockets on Mel Coat back when the power boosts from Icarus were available. Got to like nearly 1000 damage per Rocket

Just absolutely silly

[glass bone]

This is ridiculous.

• Play Mel Coat Poseidon Attack for about 3-4 hours total on 50 Fear.
• Lose like 20 runs total.
• Play Supay once on 50 Fear.
• Win immediately.
• Then my game crashes right before I stop recording, so I lose the recording.

[spiral wadi]

supay experience

is there a crash log

[glass bone]

It’s as if my system was punishing me for playing Supay.

Uh… maybe? It just told me “Verifying Installation”, and has a crash listed as most recent as yesterday (to which I don’t think I crashed yesterday?)

The entire run felt choppy in terms of performance, so I can’t tell if this is an F10 moment, or if it’s me not having enough space or something else.

Anyway, another 50 Fear done, with nothing to show for it except the Book of Shadows.

[spiral wadi]

i see, ye wack

[glass bone]

Also, the worst (or best?) part, is that it crashed right after I returned to shadow. What that means is while I do have a 50 Fear done, I can’t go back to the seed I played.

It was a crazy seed, where I got Renewed Faith on my last reroll, and a Level 10 Breaker Rush on Supay.

[spiral wadi]

:o damn

[glass bone]

Oh, and it was Heroic start.

But Chronos still had the last laugh I guess

[civic ocean]

This was me with Charon and Mel Blades where I won the mel blades run on my second try very easily after struggling with charon

Went right back to struggling on selene tho

[spiral wadi]

chronos discovering that stack overflows cannot be stopped

[glass bone]

Maybe I’ll do the Supay run again, because that run also was littered with mistakes. I had a good Cerberus Fight, but Sirens, Hecate, and P3 Chronos was.. not so good.

[uneven palm]

W’s a w

[glass bone]

For sure. But… if a titan falls in Tartarus and no one sees it, does it count? /j

[digital juniper]

can still be submitted to crossroads even without a video, right?

[spiral wadi]

yea u just need a screenshot and u should be fine, i believe their preferred minimum is 22f? not 100% sure

[digital juniper]

the website defaults to a minimum filter of 22f, so i’d say your assumption is correct

not even preferred, you can’t filter to anything below 22f. lowest fear runs there are 24f

there is a very minimal amount of 24-31f runs, it’s mostly 32f and up

and here i was excited to about to submit my 2f 21 minute run :( ||/s||

[spiral wadi]

ye the website's mainly a high fear catalogue atm

[digital juniper]

yeah that’s why the /s, i love the website as it is

[uneven palm]

Well stocked with a gazillion of my 32F runs for your mid-tier enjoyment

[digital juniper]

hoping they’re all experiments for the guide you’ll eventually make?👀

[uneven palm]

Mostly yeah but I’ll do like 50s for the speedcord aspect of the week to stay sharpish. I don’t like recommending anything if I don’t think it’ll stomp through the game

[uneven palm]

With like some fundamentals knowledge

[digital juniper]

that would be great! I used your H1 guide extensively for trying out things, and also learnt a lot from it

[digital juniper]

are the global damage bonuses additive or multiplicative?

actually nvm the question spans way too broadly. is there a resource that explains damage calculation in the game?

[olive sphinx]

Additive

[digital juniper]

so you basically can have over double damage (with some prereqs ofcourse) from arcana alone?

[olive sphinx]

Yeah pretty much!

There is probably some resource that explains it in the speed running discord but it's pretty simple iirc

Power * all the additive percentages * 3 (if there is a crit proving) * 2 (if you have one of those ares boons)

Plus whatever other special effects. Like air quality is checked at the very end to see if it goes above 50 or not

But yeah that's pretty much it I think???

[digital juniper]

and then all that * by whatever multiplicative bonuses you have, right?

[olive sphinx]

What multiplicative bonuses?

The only multiplicative bonuses are the crits and ares effect

[digital juniper]

actually wait, i was confusing other things with it. are there any damage bonuses that are not additive?

[olive sphinx]

This is all there is afaik

[past salmon]

Everything is additive yeh

[digital juniper]

my brain jumbled up the whole excellence fiasco with damage calculation, apologies for the dentge but it is 5 am and i havent slept yet

[olive sphinx]

It's all additive otherwise. Or +power

[past salmon]

Power is technically multiplicative as well as Ares double damage and crits

[olive sphinx]

Yeah that's what I already said above smh

Jk lol

[past salmon]

My bad guess I'll disappear

[civic ocean]

they're all technically multiplicative bonuses they all just scale additively

[olive sphinx]

I was messing ❤️

[olive sphinx]

Yeah it's okay, a lot of this stuff in this game is very confusing

[civic ocean]

the only thing multiplying right now is my contempt for the aspect of Selene

[past salmon]

Selene slaps tho

[olive sphinx]

Lmaooo why

[civic ocean]

its slapping me rn thats for sure

[past salmon]

I love Selene

[olive sphinx]

What's wrong with it

[civic ocean]

idk im just bad at it

[past salmon]

Coat in general is goated love Coat

[civic ocean]

playing Night cause it seemed fun

[olive sphinx]

Selene is the only coat I personally like

I'm not big on punching ppl ig...

[digital juniper]

just play it at 0f and you won't feel bad at it, ez

[past salmon]

Have you tried it tho

[olive sphinx]

Ok ok it is fun actually

It's just too inelegant for my taste hahahah

[digital juniper]

is your favourite weapon the staff? feels the most "elegant" out of all of them

[forest forum]

Is "The Queen" Arcana worth going out of the way for? There are a number of good 1 and 2's, and I'm not sure. Though, sometimes you reroll twice and still only get 90 gold when you want a duo.

[civic ocean]

guess I try not punching people then but like the range of skyfall and the range of the rockets doesnt feel like it overlaps at all

[olive sphinx]

It's not that big of a difference
It's like nice to have it, but it also isn't something I go out of my way for

Divinity is much more important than the queen imo

[olive sphinx]

Oh yeah sky fall does feel a bit awkward to me to sometimes..

[digital juniper]

it would be very good to have if you know you're going after a build with many duos. but if you're running denial, im not sure how worth it it would be to go out of your way for it

[olive sphinx]

Denial doesn't help you get more duos 💔

They reworked it so it doesn't work like that for a long time now

[civic ocean]

Why am I finding out that all the Selene coat fans are just playing Mel coat in a trenchcoat lmao

[digital juniper]

yeah i heard about the whole thing. i was insinuating the opposite (even though thinking about it now, it doesnt make much sense) my though was if you're running denial, Queen might not be as good to sacrifice other arcana for if you're running denial

[digital juniper]

meant to reply to this^

[olive sphinx]

Tl dr: denial makes no difference so it shouldn't affect your arcana choice basically

[civic ocean]

Queen isn't usually worth forcing a suboptimal loadout for unless you are content to force a specific duo that strongly changes the game for you, like Heinous Affront or Rude Awakening + Chain Reaction

But it's usually not too hard to have a good arcana loadout that gives you Queen

[digital juniper]

i just realized my usual loadout does have queen activated lol

[civic ocean]

Yeah I mean it's usually fine

To give you an idea, on an average boon (12% base chance) Queen gives you a 52% chance to see a duo boon vs a 31% chance to see it normally. After one reroll, those numbers are 77.5% and 53.6%

So it helps but it doesn't mean that you should not bother chasing a duo without it

[digital juniper]

that is a siginificantly higher duo chance than i expected honestly

[civic ocean]

Excellence and Queen both give higher Leg/duo chances that people realize I think

Divinity is a massive difference too

[digital juniper]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/ArcanaDeck/?deck=WyJjMSIsImMyIiwiYzYiLCJjNyIsImMxMiIsImMxMyIsImMxNCIsImMxNSIsImMxNiIsImMxNyIsImMyMCIsImMyMSIsImMyMiIsImMyNCJd this is what im currently running

future plans are to drop lovers for either huntress and messanger, or for artificer. i want to get eternity in but other than dropping lovers for it, i have 0 clue on how i could do that

[olive sphinx]

1.5% paid dues

[civic ocean]

First piece of advice I would give is to as soon as you can immediately stop thinking about Arcana as cross-weapon

At the very least, the game gives you six slots so do one loadout per weapon

[olive sphinx]

That set up would work pretty well for almost all weapons tbh, it's very solid

[digital juniper]

yes, that is something i’ve been meaning to start doing

but other than eternity, what card might i want to use/drop depending on weapon?

[olive sphinx]

Night is good on Momus/Selene

[digital juniper]

i have basically all survival cards up because i’m still not great at minimizing damage taken, the rest kinda fall into more damage (furies, reroll corner etc)

[digital juniper]

speaking of night, i have no idea what it does. what’s an omega combo?

[olive sphinx]

If you alternate your omegas instead of spamming the same one, they will have a crit chance

[olive sphinx]

If your goal is to just do something like 32f, then your setup will work for most weapons there lol.

So idk, do you want to push into high fear territory? In that case you might want to think more in depth about it I suppose

[digital juniper]

i’d say i’m still in my learning/meta progression phase. but yes, i eventually do want to push up to 32f and beyond

[civic ocean]

Things I would consider swapping out is probably Wayward Son, Origination, Boatman, Sorceress depending on the build

Then like just try other stuff like use your imagination and try and make stuff good

[digital juniper]

i still have a lot of cards not fully upgraded yet, have no aspects upgraded other than than at 2 and medea at 2, amongst other things i might forgetting

[digital juniper]

i apologize if i’m asking too much “nooby” questions but i do love to learn and improve, hope it’s not too much hassle for you guys

Wayward son might be the last one id consider swapping unless there’s a self heal build, i take more damage than id like and 5 per room adds up for me quick

origination i get, but are there really builds where you won’t be able to make use of it? its a huge damage boost

boatman is massive QoL but can definitely be dropped, i have it on more for to unlock the fates card than anything, but the extra gold is nothing to scoff at ofcourse

sorceress i have on due to no eternity, but can definitely see why its a choice to drop

[olive sphinx]

keep it in mind that east likes to do a lot of unconventional stuff so idk if his advice is something a lot of other people agree with lol

Wayward son is great for learning imo

[uneven palm]

Like on huge builds where you’ve got a gigantic percentage boon on your move, weed killer, that sort of thing, another 50% from Origination isn’t bad but also it doesn’t move the needle much

[digital juniper]

i would say his degree of skill is what allows him to also do these unconventional things, no? but i do get your point for sure

[digital juniper]

i agree, it’s the first card i maxed while i got the stardust to max Death

[olive sphinx]

No I feel the exact opposite lol. If someone is so good at the game and reflexes and precision that they can win with any build or setup it makes their advice less useful to other people

[digital juniper]

i see, i definitely haven’t considered that

[olive sphinx]

The only issue with wayward son is it doesn't work with Scars so on high fear you won't get to benefit from it

[digital juniper]

if you can recall off your head, approximately at what fear do you start running higher levels of scars? since even at 2, that’s still 2(or 3?) health per room

[glass bone]

Well it doesn’t work with Scars 3. I’ve been using Scars 2 Wayward Son, and it has “worked” to some success.

[olive sphinx]

40+

[digital juniper]

because if you run max scars at (let’s say) 25f, i’d probably be better enough at the game that i can live without wayward son

[olive sphinx]

You can do scars 2 with wayward son yeah

[digital juniper]

oh yeah by the point i reach 40f+, id definitely be good enough to not need wayward son

[olive sphinx]

When people talk about high fear they usually refer to 40+ I think

Because that's completely optional territory basically

[digital juniper]

in other words, masochist territory

actually that might be even higher, or restricted just to 65 and 67 fear because why would you want to do that to yourself?

[olive sphinx]

Yeah lmaoo

40-50f is still within manageable territory, I have no clue at all how people do 50+,literally seems impossible to me 😔

Impossible to get past rivals Scylla with frenzy 2😭

[digital juniper]

i wonder if when i start pushing fear if i should run frenzy 2 very early on to force myself to get used to it

[olive sphinx]

Yes!
That's the usual advice!!
You either commit to frenzy 2 and never turn it off or you never touch it at all because of muscle memory and stuff

Frenzy is really weird like that but yeah it messes with you a lot if you try to switch it around..

[digital juniper]

with H1 i took the latter route with FO2, but i feel like getting used to frenzy would be more fun (after the initial massive suffering)

[olive sphinx]

You could at least try it for a few runs atp to see how it feels yeah

Turning it off is always a lot easier hahaha

[digital juniper]

basically anime training arc where i train with weighted armor so im much stronger in the real fights

[formal pulsar]

The frenzy 2 is kinda true till it isn’t. You need to live long enough to see the moves to learn them and get a feel for them. If you die too fast, it is useless. like for some rivals bosses feel free to lower it till you know what the hll is happening. Especially for some things like unrivaled chronos p3.

[digital juniper]

yeah the rivals combined with frenzy is what i’m thinking of the most. don’t think it’s a great idea to go into a boss not knowing their moves when they’re also on steroids

[olive sphinx]

True true yeah

[spiral wadi]

yeaa i find it's better to adjust to rivals at frenzy 0 before ticking up the speed

speaking from experience trying to fight rivals polyphemus on day 1 release

[digital juniper]

rivals came to the game at a later patch than release right?

[formal pulsar]

Rivals was in patch 9

[digital juniper]

okay yeah then that makes sense. for a second i was thinking how good are you at the game to be able to go from 0 hours to rivals poly day 1 lol

[formal pulsar]

Game got 2 major updates before unseen patch (which brought rivals) plus a couple of small patches.

[digital juniper]

i see. i only started playing after unseen dropped so have very little idea about the progression of EA

[dry mirage]

how do you guys have fun with supay?

i mostly play moros when im feeling torches

[civic ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeeueGbELYE something like this - Air Quality and Froth with Gales

[median anvil]

if you're planning to seriously push fear later, you should start running frenzy2 asap

the sooner you get used to it the better

[empty musk]

If you run Rivals before learning Frenzy you basically have to learn two boss fights since it changes the timing for dodges

I think beating each Rivals boss at least once on low fear (like no others vows enabled) should be enough, then permanently run Frenzy

Like even now when I turn off Frenzy and go back I find myself getting hit more than if I had Frenzy on bc the timings are just that different

[tulip pier]

can chaos spawn on surface? i need to farm ||darkness|| and all fear challenges are pointing me to surface for the past 10 runs+\

[empty musk]

Only on the entrance chamber of the first two regions or at any point during the third region (minus warden rooms I think)

[spiral wadi]

chaos has a much rarer chance to show up on surface

[digital juniper]

yeah i’d say that’s my end game (albeit that’s pretty far, but eventually) yes

[digital juniper]

oh wow, i would’ve expected turning off frenzy after getting used to it would be like playing on easy mode, but it makes sense

[digital juniper]

yeah that was my thought too, give myself an actual chance to learn the nuances of the rivals fight before throwing myself into frenzy+rivals

[cunning turret]

any fun builds with the black coat? I just cant seem to make up a build that "feels" fun with it

[spiral wadi]

shimmering hammer with hitch rockets, murder ur waves

[scarlet zodiac]

are there any "meta" builds? and if yes, then would it be a weapon's aspect specific?

[median anvil]

there are quite a few strong builds for every aspect, there's too many to just list, do you have something specific in mind?

[scarlet zodiac]

my most played aspects are negral for axe and morrigan for daggers, so im curriouus about those 2

also curious about Anubis, Supay, Eos and any black coat arms (they all feel kinda the same tbh)

[median anvil]

nergal needs psychic whirlwind, your options are apollo, demeter or hera on attack
morrigan is either leaning into blood triad with apollo attack or using its multi hit with scorch builds, your best hammer options are sweeping ambush and final slice

anubis is just scorch attack, that's the entire build
supay is hestia or poseidon on sprint, then zeus and/or hera on attack and special

eos has plenty of options, use the night arcana, i personally put zeus on special then apollo or hera on attack
coats can all play scorch on special, it kinda differs from aspect to aspect, like nyx with scorch special and blitz attack

don't limit yourself to these though, at low and mid fear you can make any build work, don't be afraid to experiment and goof around

[scarlet zodiac]

yeah thats pretty much what i build on those 2.
had a successful olympus run with hephaestus attack+special+2 or 3 duo boons with morrigan. 0 fear though

[scarlet zodiac]

will test anubis with scorch, thx.
why hestia or poseidon on sprint and not, say, apollo or aphrodite? as for atttack/special, thats what i go for all the time (or at least try to).

[median anvil]

hestia and poseidon have the highest damage potential on their sprint boons

[scarlet zodiac]

ah

i forgot about the rush boon boost

always think of Supay as an auto-turret aspect and completely disregard the sprint boons

[median anvil]

https://youtu.be/L1URP9Mubfw?si=UB9hknXI7WvWOg6k

here's a 62 fear run if you wanna see how pros play supay

[glass bone]

Coats:
Mel: Poseidon Waves Attack + Exhaust Rider. Then aim for supporting boons such as Static Shock, and Nimble Limbs. If you want to aim for requirement boons (Duos and Legendaries), Arterial Spray (Poseidon + Ares) and King’s Tide are probably the two best to go for, outside of weapon-agnostic duos like Sun Worshipper.
Selene: Maximize Skyfall. Aim for Heinous Affront + Divine Vengeance / Light Smite in combination. Start with Selene Keepsake or Ares Keepsake; both have their positives (better Skyfall right out the gate, Ares guaranteed right out the gate for the Godsent).
Nyx: See Pizza’s comment
Shiva: Apollo Attack + Gains such as Born or Ionic (Hecuba can also help). Since you’re alternating OSpecial and OAttack, Night is a good arcana to use.

[scarlet zodiac]

run was saved at 15:26

[median anvil]

most 62 runs take athena exclusively for that boon 😂

[scarlet zodiac]

totally understandable since i do the same. if only she gave me replenishment instead of the +1 per location 😭

[glass bone]

I wonder… is there a 62 Task Force run?

I’d imagine it would be with Selene if so. Or any weapon with Apollo Lunar Ray I guess.

[scarlet zodiac]

wdym by task force?

[median anvil]

athena boon

lets your hex be godsent +3 times in every encounter

[digital juniper]

what are the prereqs to be able to get godsents? i dont think i unlocked that yet

[median anvil]

i think you have to use every hex at least once

[digital juniper]

that would make sense, i basically always go for the same hexes everytime. im sure there are 2-3 that i haven't picked at all

[dapper elbow]

What gods should I prioritize for aspect of cerci Zeus cast. I know I need Zeus but what other gods should I be looking for

And if I do Hestia cast which gods besides Heatia should I be looking for

[formal pulsar]

Hestia and Zeus are good with each other because thermal dynamics is really good. Demeter gale stuff is also good. Hera extended family buffs the damage of both to a large degree and hitch.

Just keep in mind for hestia cast plays and for scorch in general, the #1 damage buff is pyro technique.

[smoky sable]

https://youtu.be/yGA10zFeRrg

[regal talon]

what are the best specials for staff?

[glass bone]

For which staff?

[spiral wadi]

i just had a random vision, what if unseen gave 20 magick/sec, but lose 2 of this for each boon you have

maybe not a good idea, it's kinda just a flashbang thought i had lol

[glass shell]

https://i.redd.it/m4aqr1byhdxe1.jpeg

unseen could be 20/s literally right now and the needle doesn't move

let alone a downward scaling version of it

[spiral wadi]

the idea was that it gives better early game magick stability but i forgot hecuba exists 😎👍

[glass shell]

im partially convinced that removing the lockout would make it usable, or at least feel good to use

pretty sure it doesn't move the needle enough for me to use 5 grasp on it

but it would at least feel useful when i circe/keepsake/chaos randomizer it

[spiral wadi]

maybe inverse? like each boon, add 3

[glass shell]

still ass, because generally speaking the time you need regen the most is earlygame due to a lack of boons

and now its even worse for the players who take it to hold off on getting regen boons

[spiral wadi]

hmm, i feel like regen in early game isn't too bad as long as u run hecuba and aim for a gain as early as u can

[glass shell]

one of my suggestions was making it work like that one chaos reward that reduces mana costs by a %, so it works alongside regen boons even more(except demeter ig)

[spiral wadi]

as in a gain by like oceanus or thessaly

i say as i've been messing around w mel torches lol

[glass shell]

idk i just don't think any amount of regen would be worth 5 grasp for me fundamentally probably, it needs some other thing imo

like im half convinced it could straight have the text of demeter magick and as long as it has the lockout it will be unclickable

[spiral wadi]

understandable, i mean im also on the end where it's worth keeping it as is for early-game players getting the hang of magick first (like me)

[glass shell]

10 magick/second without lockout sounds mid still, 20/s without lockout is maybe good but my brain might just be too tainted to actually consider clicking unseen seriously

[formal pulsar]

Unseen solved by making you change arcana between biome

[glass shell]

judgment region 1
get free 5 extra cards
equip 30 grasp normally after

[spiral wadi]

1.0 unseen: all ur magick is converted into hp

(this would be terrible do not do it)

maybe primed magick,,

[upper rapids]

So close to a hitless frenzy 2 rivals eris but then the adds got me

[spiral wadi]

the what got u?

[upper rapids]

Additional enemies , adds

Spawned some automatons

[spiral wadi]

ooh yea automatons are the worst lmao

is there turn speed based on elite (armor)?

cuz i swear i've been behind them and it's 50/50 whether they turn super fast or turn slow af

[uneven palm]

Elites turn faster I think(?) could just be me panicking because I let them shoot

[spiral wadi]

that explains it, ok gotta keep that in mind then cuz it throws me off like "damn chill"

that's even more cruel in the context of like 3 elites spread out in the arena

[upper rapids]

Small arena too

[spiral wadi]

eh small is at least fine cuz at least ur close enough to be able to move and dodge cuz rotation speed is worse when ur up close, and hopefully u have cover (i still had one instance where there was no cover with three elites and one impervious lmao)

big arena spread out is diabolical

what's auto spinner elite thing

[upper rapids]

Yea true bigger arena is more annoying but when you have to also keep track of eris then youre either dashing towards her and the adds snipe you or you dodge the adds but eris rushes you with some bs

[spiral wadi]

tru, it why i prioritize blazing thru the adds asap

[upper rapids]

I really just wish eris was more noticeable in the fight because sometimes i lose her position amidst the bomb smoke or adds or fire
And if some enemy goes in the fire hazards when i dont have range its also annoying

[spiral wadi]

tru, i trust visual clarity will improve in 1.0 as they polish it up

at least it's better than scylla cuz who thought purple on purple was good

[upper rapids]

Would be so welcomed

[median anvil]

i trust unrivaled hecate will be murdered in an alley with nerfs

[upper rapids]

Honestly scylla models aren't too bad but take that with a grain of salt as i barely do the underworld
Its the projectiles that suck, so many, especially if Charybdis gets the featured artist boost

[spiral wadi]

LOL my one hope for hecate is that all her interphase moves get canceled instantly after last minion kill

yea the models idc, it's the purple/pinkish attacks on purple that makes it horrendous, especially if u also have pink moves like aphro cast

[upper rapids]

Like you know where the tentacled and roxy are
Jetty is honestly forgetable in a good way
Scylla is thick

[upper rapids]

Oh yea

[ocean ibex]

i hope they add a pin kfilter

[split igloo]

wait charybdis doesnt always get the boost?

[spiral wadi]

ye it's still random artist

[split igloo]

bruh then im unlucky

[upper rapids]

You probably just notice that one more since its so annoying

[spiral wadi]

i want to see neon cyan and neon yellow attacks etc, varying colors based on the attacker

[upper rapids]

Jetty or roxy are forgettable lol

[spiral wadi]

tho actually multiple colors on screen might be bad too

[split igloo]

well i kinda only started playing the rivals update a few days ago

[ocean ibex]

it's i believe, 1/4

[split igloo]

and in those a couple days i played 3 times against scylla and for those 3 times to have charibdys featured is i think pretty lucky

not 2 i didnt count

[upper rapids]

Fair
Ive got maybe the last two weeks or so , and under a dozen runs in the previous matches as i still had college

[ocean ibex]

1/64 isn't insane odds

[upper rapids]

Ytb does help tho

[split igloo]

fell in love with the new soundtrack

[upper rapids]

MY MAN

[split igloo]

only doing the underworld for that

[upper rapids]

I actualy got the instrumental from the game files to listen to it since i played it in the crossroads and it was so good

[split igloo]

aspect of morrigan is busted

[spiral wadi]

truth

[upper rapids]

Aspect of big number

[split igloo]

aspect of murdor

[upper rapids]

I wonder which is better on my hel build rn with hestia attack
Slow cooker or highly flammable ( common )

Hel does have low base power so maybe slow cooker would make it cracked
But highly flammable makes pyrotech even better and lets me leave enemies to dies

[glass bone]

On a surface level, Slow Cooker is probably better on bosses, and Highly Flammable is probably better in encounters.

[upper rapids]

Ill try slow cooker and hope I get static shock or hitch later on, i have the gods in the pool

Or flash fry biggg

[ocean ibex]

does morrigan have a bigger detection radius on the o attack?

[upper rapids]

Relative to other blades?

Felt better when i was using it but dont know

Does colossus driver damage reduction apply for the whole duration of the specials flying out ?
Considering it over leering glance, again since i can maybe get static shock etc

[uneven palm]

On Hel the reduced damage duration is just as you’re firing for like a microsecond

[upper rapids]

Awwwww

[lavish hare]

anyone have advice for building for anubis? i have no real idea how to use it or play to its strengths

[median anvil]

scorch attack with a high %boost on your special

[lavish hare]

so, like, hera or aphro special?

[median anvil]

yes

[upper rapids]

Also omega special is really strong

[polar ravine]

so has anyone done a max vows run? or whats the closest to max vow that people have done

[glass shell]

67, max fear has already been beaten

only caveat is that it was a seeded start with trick knives

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1051942150025269309/1393425672206028800/image.png?ex=68a1ed88&is=68a09c08&hm=b4190795d0cb5ec41cc245e5458ae57c48a19b28e07ac03a86f6e2be3f985a14&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1327&height=746

was mynt

[polar ravine]

nice

did anyone manage a surface max fear run?

[glass shell]

not afaik

[uneven palm]

Scorch, waves, blitz, or Hera attack, any big percentage or high-rarity Blitz on special. Dash-strike, cast, then Hoover enemies in with specials or especially O specials, which zorp in the whole room basically. Dash after specials to get away from things you invited into your personal space

[civic ocean]

someone came very close playing a modded version of the game

[glass bone]

Ok, weird thought I just had. Is it plausible or reasonable to say that Rival Prom is harder than Rival Chronos?

I remember a few days ago there was a discussion about Rival difficulty ranks, and now I am feeling like maybe, just maybe… Rival Prom is harder. (Though to be fair, I’m biased because I’ve done way more underworld runs; 4 U50 to 1 S50)

[civic ocean]

Depending on the build yes

Prometheus and Heracles don't stand still and Typhon does

[glass bone]

Like it feels like I have to build it like Scylla where if possible, I take Knuckle Bones + Hera just for them.

[uneven palm]

Maybe? They’ve got a ton of HP and you need to come out of it with enough life to get through Summit too. Chronos it’s cool if you’re near-death at the end

[civic ocean]

So if I am playing an aspect like Momus or Selene or Charon I am getting 100% damage value into Typhon

so his like "effective hp" is less than Prometheus if I just like miss him

[glass bone]

Maybe that’s it.
Underworld has a higher base (time vs Hecate), a difficulty check (Scylla), flattens (Cerberus), and then peaks (Chronos)
Meanwhile, Surface has a very low base (Poly & Eris aside from Eris vs Timer), and then takes two massive jumps.

[civic ocean]

Surfaces enemies are much much harder it should be said

[glass bone]

And also I hear that Surface punishes more for damage trades

[civic ocean]

I said that yeah

[glass bone]

Like I have had to use Renewed Faith on all 4 Underworld runs, but for Surface, it’s as if I can’t do that strategy. I only was able to with Circe because it’s such a safe aspect (at-least with my beloved Lightning Lance).

Sometime in the near future, I’ll try some more Surface runs (I’m gonna try Supay 50F Surface next), so I could get used to the dodging

[civic ocean]

Surface has the combination of offscreen enemies and projectile spam

[polar ravine]

i mustve gotten lucky because ive never had much issue with them beyond like 2 unlucky runs

[glass shell]

i could be wrong but im fairly sure knuckle bones doesn't work like that for scylla

[glass bone]

No, I mean make load out decisions specifically to counter them

[glass shell]

ah gotcha

[glass bone]

The Scylla counter being godsend Total Eclipse

I’ve had to do that less for Scylla and more for Prom, comparatively

[civic ocean]

I think I have kinda moved away from KB on Prometheus unless I have some hera stuff going

Dependent on the build ofc

[glass shell]

i still use it cause i find i don't really need the help phasing typhon phase 1 and the dr is negligible

so i may as well use it for prom where its helpful

[civic ocean]

Oftentimes I just think it's better to go double Pin

esp if I leave Thessaly around 60 hp

[glass shell]

🤔

[civic ocean]

If I have Pin I can save time on like Talos just by playing like a baboon

[glass bone]

I mean I guess at the end, but the memory game eats up time twice

[civic ocean]

it's super build dependent ig

[glass bone]

The benefit of Knuckle Bones is also the damage aspect, helping against Timer

Pin’s damage can only come at the end unless you want to use one of your normal death defiances

[civic ocean]

Knuckle bones doesn't help me clear Olympus faster though and in a lot of cases pin (or moon beam or whatever else I take) does right

[glass bone]

True. And I have faced time issues there too…

[civic ocean]

Or oftentimes I take Fig Leaf in Thessaly so I will take a god keepsake or something in Olympus to help the build mature

[glass bone]

Ok, one more question. What weapons + pathway do not yet have a 62+ run done?

[civic ocean]

I don't think there is a collection of all 62s

[glass bone]

I know that mathematically, all weapons can do 62/67 Surface via RNG. But surely all weapons could roll for 62 Underworld?

[civic ocean]

We don't know what is or isn't possible

[glass bone]

I’m just certain of the surface bit. If I ever get good enough to do 62, I’d want to do as many 62s than 67.

There’s a 50 for everything, and pre-rival 55 for many. What other limits can be pushed, it makes me wonder…

[civic ocean]

Its all you right like idw about what other ppl do

[glass bone]

62 Mel Axe run has totally been in the works the whole time

No, but that actually is something I want to try in the far, far future.

“How high can the supposed worst weapon be pushed?”

[median anvil]

I've done 53 with it

though my highest uploaded is a 45 fear judgement run

[cerulean panther]

You misspelled "Pan".

[median anvil]

pan nearly did 67 yesterday

[civic ocean]

I mean pan is 67 so idk how bad that can be

[glass bone]

No, Pan No Trick Knives is the worst.

[cerulean panther]

Was it Pan or was it Trick Knives?

Not that the homing from the Cast hurts.

[glass bone]

Pan with Trick Knives is really strong still apparently

[civic ocean]

If it was just trick knives theyd use a different aspect right

[median anvil]

nah the cast homing is broken with trick knives

[glass bone]

It’s Pan + Trick Knives. It’s because of the homing

[civic ocean]

Exactly

[glass bone]

The highest I saw with Mel Axe on YT was 50 with a Judgement run. They took Stalwart Stand and started with Strength as one of them

I think it was like… Strength, Persistence, and probably Huntress if I had to guess (I don’t recall what it was)

This was pre-Unseen.

[median anvil]

hordes3 grit3 wards2 return2 timer3 onion is REALLY hard to handle for mel axe

[glass bone]

Can Void be taken over Wards?

For a “62”.

[median anvil]

theoretically yeah

[civic ocean]

Wdym can it

[glass bone]

Sorry, I meant “Is that optimal?”

Is it better to take Void than Wards for Mel Axe at 62?

[median anvil]

I'd probably drop grit instead of wards cause boss fights seemed like a bigger issue

grit3 bosses take a lot of time with mel axe

[civic ocean]

I want to be perfectly clear here

There are no rules and no consensus here

If YOU think void makes more sense than wards then go try it

[glass bone]

I was looking for advice before I drop into the idea.

Because although I’m probably better than average, I’m not at all perfect

[civic ocean]

Only one way to fix that

[median anvil]

well i haven't made it past erebus in a 55 fear run with mel axe

[glass bone]

Is it to use Dashing Heave and Huntress?

[median anvil]

good luck getting dashing heave
huntress is very important though yes

[glass bone]

So Persistence -> Huntress. Got it.

[formal pulsar]

Mel axe is hurt by mynt retiring

[formal pulsar]

Wards is solved by static shock. So you really really really want first biome second god to be zeus on any of the slow weapons

Also Zeus on axe special is actually pretty good

Dashing heave into special and repeat is a pretty good combo

[empty musk]

Mel axe can definitely beat 62F but solely because Heph blasts exists and functions basically the same on every weapon

Like even when the inevitable 62F Mel axe run happens it doesn't change the fact that it's still the worst weapon in the game bc least variety of viable builds

[civic ocean]

I think we should all remember that the game isn’t really designed around above 32 fear and Mel Axe does really well at that and below especially for new players who get hit a lot and don’t have access to the resources you need for the other axes

[empty musk]

Idk ab that . . . Especially for a new player, axe attack combo is very likely to make them take more damage than 35hp (+17hp per dd)

It'd be like if Arthur moveset was the base moveset on H1 sword and the faster moveset was considered "more advanced"

[civic ocean]

I think the axe attack is actually super intuitive - this is slow but hits a large crowd, so put down your cast to trap and swing

20 power and hp for 2 silver 2 bronze is amazing

[empty musk]

I mean ig but like that playstyle is still basically the same as Arthur since its special is a precursor to cast. Arthur was def an intuitive weapon, but not a beginner one (maybe the most beginner of the H1 hidden aspects tho, but we’re talking ab Mel aspects here)

Also if new players decide to go for testaments they almost always activate wards as one of their first vows bc it's the least intimidating --> and wards heavily impacts Mel axe

Also like Charon is a much easier and better version of cast to weapon, even not upgraded. You do have to worry ab magic, but it's not good design to create beginner weapons which encourage you to avoid learning 1 of the 5 core boons in the game

[spiral wadi]

isn't circe the easiest cast weapon in technicality since u don't have to worry about exploding it, just plant it

and it's super flexible to where you can either build into ocast or normal cast

[empty musk]

Yeah but I think we're specifically talking ab axes here (basically if Mel axe beginner friendly compared to the other aspects)

[spiral wadi]

ah gotcha

[civic ocean]

Yeah idk I think one of the easiest ways to grab nightmare in the early game is gonna be Mel Axe + Aphrodite start

[limber swan]

i wanna craft a build that maximizes the benefit from zeus/hera duo

my thought is aspect of supay with zeus dash? but whats the best way to go about getting as many hera boons as possible

probably surface route + just only spending rerolls on rooms?

[empty musk]

Yeah and then get her to appear naturally first before keepsake region 2 + Echo keepsake

[formal pulsar]

Best ransom build imo is romantic spark supay with blitz attack and Hera sprint

[glass bone]

You could do Medea with Zeus Special and Storm Ring, and take Hera / Echo keepsake in region 2 if you do/don’t find Hera.

[elfin forge]

salute the oath of the unseen to reroll your run's rng

[limber swan]

okay

also oops had no idea there were curse word filters

[formal pulsar]

You can only say ass in this server

[elfin forge]

used to prove your run was unseeded for speedrun/high fear videos mostly

[formal pulsar]

Btw red, are you the same that made the axe guide with mynt and machi?

I am talking about this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/1gmp85h/hades_ii_nocturnal_arms_guide_zorephet_the/

[spiral wadi]

nope

i have never written a guide

[formal pulsar]

Different red then

[spiral wadi]

i see, dam ok

[uneven palm]

Oh haha I assumed it was the same Red

[limber swan]

do y'all think 32 fear is equivalent to 32 heat in hades 1

[elfin forge]

ooh good question

[limber swan]

the fear vows ramp up with similar numbers to hades 1 im pretty sure

[elfin forge]

I feel like you can hit 32 fear in H2 easier than in H1, without enabling anything really cruel

[magic moss]

cheese

[limber swan]

yeah you can get 12 fear from doing vow of rivals alone

[empty musk]

Well it depends on what vows or oaths we're talking ab but fear has more "free" vows while heat had things like heightened security, approval process, etc.

So I'd say 32H harder than 32F

[elfin forge]

same

[empty musk]

Also Hades 2 just generally gives you more build tools than Hades 1

[limber swan]

what's the equivalent number on average? like 32 fear = 16 or 20 heat?

[empty musk]

Now that's a question for someone like Autumn bc I did terrible in stats 😩

[limber swan]

lmao

[elfin forge]

idk they're not directly equivalent

also Hades 2 has UW and SF routes

so like, is 32 SF harder than 32 H1?

[limber swan]

surface is most definitely harder than hades 1

[elfin forge]

idk, I don't think any zone is as annoying to do as Elysium in H2

I despise elysium a lot

[limber swan]

the peak has a lot of annoying stuff too

[elfin forge]

summit is so short though, and your build is stronger so you can blaze through it

[limber swan]

and vow of return is similar to the big gimmick of returning enemies in elysium

[empty musk]

I think the determining factor is when the game starts forcing you to take the "non-free" vows: that starts happening for heat around 32 while for fear it gets pushed to >45

[elfin forge]

It just feels easier to clear rooms in H2

[empty musk]

Yeah mainly bc Hitch/Scorch/Blitz, cast AOE and more ways to proc with wards

[elfin forge]

H2 kinda feels like high level diablo, and H1 kinda feels like low level diablo lol

[limber swan]

okay how about just like, bosses

i feel like chronos/typhon are a little bit harder than redacted but im also not familar with redacted and his vow of rivals fight

extreme measures is what its called

[empty musk]

Rivals is way harder than em ever was fs

[elfin forge]

yeah Rivals final bosses are way worse than EM final boss

[limber swan]

im so familiar with chronos/typhon now so its hard for me personally to say

[elfin forge]

for normal boss fights, I think all H2 fights are easier than H1 fights

[limber swan]

cerberus is really easy for region 3 boss

[elfin forge]

For normal difficulty bosses: (right side is hardest imo)
Chronos < Typhon < Hades
Cerb < Prom = Champs
Eris < Scylla < Lernie
Hecate < Meg < Poly

[limber swan]

chronos was harder to learn but once i got the hang of it he was very easy

[elfin forge]

Chronos wasn't even that hard I think, many of his attacks don't do that much damage

[limber swan]

same with eris and Polyphemus

but eris and Polyphemus got easier as early access went on

[elfin forge]

chronos instakill is the only scary thing, and also the Scythe Toss

I feel like you can kinda tank hits in Chronos a lot more than Hades though

[limber swan]

yeah that's what i was doing with chronos before vow of rivals dropped

with vow of rivals i need to be quite a bit more careful it feels like

[elfin forge]

definitely

[limber swan]

vow of rivals typhon however is wild

[elfin forge]

phase 3 chronos is still insane

[limber swan]

the start of phase two trips me up a bit but once i do it a couple more times I'll have it in the bag

[elfin forge]

especially after Eggs 2

[limber swan]

yeah

vow of rivals typhon has like 4 or 5 phases depending on how you count

[elfin forge]

P1, Eggs1, P2, Chronos, P3, Eggs2, P4, Babality

that's how I count it

[limber swan]

baby mode is a separate phase from what comes right after tbh

[elfin forge]

I don't even count afterwards he has like, one damaging attack

[limber swan]

anyways when i beat chronos on 32 fear he called me a monstrous grandchild which is accurate

melinoe is his nightmare

[elfin forge]

not yet (1.0)

[limber swan]

yeah lol

[polar ravine]

so what is the best build for zeus dash? how to maximize it

of course with aspect of supey

[empty musk]

Froth somehow for the Poseidon Duo (usually through cast for furies), double strike, Olympian damage through either EF or RC, and Origination

[civic ocean]

if you're playing supay with it make sure you seek out nitro boost from hermes otherwise you're going to be very slow

then normally some combination of Heaven Strike/Flourish, Tidal Ring, and Glamour Gain is what I like.

[stable herald]

if I'm running Blitz on Supay then I'm always picking Romantic Spark, which is another point for Glamour Gain. Arc Flash is terrific too

[surreal hazel]

King's Ransom just to soup up thunder rush

[civic ocean]

I guess the thing I go for on Supay with Frigid Rush also works with thunder rush which is go for static shock gales froth air quality

[surreal hazel]

Sadface: Exceptional Talent does not double up on the Bouncing Bomb with Shiva

[tall notch]

Alexa that's so sad, play Despacito 😔

[thin cloud]

Anyone got any fun builds for moonstone axe?

[median anvil]

which aspect

[thin cloud]

I have thana and melinoe, I can use either

[gritty solstice]

Hello. I'm willing to use an Hel build, can someone reccomend me one?

[surreal hazel]

Dealer's choice on than. Consider novastrike to do biiiig slash

[thin cloud]

Usually I try to find a gimmick and then focus the build around that

Maybe something demeter based? I havent used her in a while

[median anvil]

aphro, hera or apollo on attack
mel axe takes dashing heave, thanatos takes psychic whirlwind

[glass bone]

Poseidon or Hestia Attack. Then take either Born or Cardio Gain

[thin cloud]

Anything else?

Ooh actually hera focus sounds nice

[glass bone]

Mel axe could trade Persistence for Huntress, but then it’s a little bit harder to go for Divinity.

Than Axe preferably wants Eternity. But you can still use a combo of Enchantress, Artificer, and Lovers for the 2 3 drops.

[gritty solstice]

Only? Is there a Duo Boon who works well with Hel?

[glass bone]

Arterial Spray for Poseidon, Burning Desire for Hestia.

Since these two are probably the strongest attacks for Hel, these are the two duos to interact with the attack directly.

Although there is also Scalding Vapor.

[gritty solstice]

hestia attack, poseidon ring can trigger Scalding Vapor?

[thin cloud]

Think on Mel hera attack, hestia cast, aphro special, and maybe heph dodge would be good?

[median anvil]

aphro special isn't good on axe, you're better off using a boon that applies a good curse like blitz

[thin cloud]

I really wanted aphro somewhere for duos

ah it was for burning desire

[glass bone]

You could go for Glamor Gain (Aphro Gain boon)

[thin cloud]

Hm?

Yes but then what for special?

[glass bone]

Zeus Special probably would be best. Though I feel like the combo with Special if used at all is Dash Attack -> Special.

[tall notch]

Take Demeter attack and cosplay as Kratos

[glass bone]

It does work on a second dash attack, but it also feels kind of awkward perhaps.

[tall notch]

https://tenor.com/view/kratos-anger-rage-temper-tantrum-noo-gif-19623014

[thin cloud]

Which god should I replace with it?

[glass bone]

Hephaestus can be replaced. Hephaestus is better to go for on Nergal than Mel Axe

Alternatively, you can replace Aphrodite if you don’t go for Glamour Gain, Aphrodite Attack, or Burning Desire

[glass bone]

What if Demeter was placed on cast for Mel Axe?

[tall notch]

That's better for power level but dem attack is for cosplay value and flavour

Then you click weed killer and can lean into the spin

[glass bone]

Fair. I was just thinking that Hera is a balance between Damage and a Curse.

[tall notch]

Hera is the high fear go-to because hitch shines there

[glass bone]

But doesn’t Mel Axe not apply to OAttack?

[tall notch]

True but you can get psychic whirl and just use the whirl as some extra damage/control while doing other Mel axe things

[glass bone]

I guess. So like… take Weed Killer if you don’t find Dashing Heave but do find Psychic Whirlwind

[thin cloud]

Shouldnt I get hestias magika recovery perk for the Hera/hestia combo

[median anvil]

mel and thanatos axe don't really need a special boon

[thin cloud]

Why not?

[civic ocean]

because you don't click the button much

if you have to, go for Zeus or Ares or Demeter

[surreal hazel]

Whatever opens up good duos for you

Randomly reconfirmed that Softness (total eclipse bright upgrade) counts towards origination for some reason

[digital juniper]

due to me still learning, i like dem on special and then i just have a massive freeze with the ospecial if i need it

zeus for blitz is always a nice source of damage

[stoic chasm]

Hi I’ve been thinking for awhile, with King’s and Queen’s ransom plus echo Pom (and maybe the duo boon and Persephone skull somewhere if you wanna add it) what’s the highest boon level someone has got?

[uneven palm]

I like putting Zeus or Poseidon or Hestia on special on Mel axe. Hits thrice, you’re weaving it in anyway

[uneven palm]

I’ve seen upper 50s

[jade raptor]

Whats been your strongest/most obscenely broken build you've ever had?

[civic ocean]

I think ive gone infinite with Momus before

[jade raptor]

For me, its in between any skull run that has the 'when you collect the skulls, you activate the omega attack'

Or aspect of Supay with Hera and Ares. I absolutely gutted typhon

Which weapon is momus? Also, infinite is insanely cool!

[civic ocean]

Staff aspect + maxed out wolf howl + unseen + flood gain

[digital juniper]

as a newer player, i have 2 that come to mind

mel torches with fine line, ocean swell and the hera poseidon duo

the other is medea skull, fine line, and possesive array. there were other boons that support it but i dont recall them

[jade raptor]

[civic ocean]

Chain omega attack and omega cast together, costing enough mana to trigger wolf howl. Wolf howl makes you invulnerable, and gives you armor afterwards while the momus turrets shoot. Then oatk and ocast again during the armor duration, and wolf howl again

[digital juniper]

what is infinite in this context?

[civic ocean]

You can’t take any damage and have infinite mana

Since there is no armor spillover the bosses can never hit you before the next howl is up

[digital juniper]

that sounds insanely broken and insanely fun lmao. are there builds that make it possible as of patch 11?

[civic ocean]

I think that was my 39 momus clear yeah

The issue is mostly timer if you don’t get a ton of damage on the omega moves

[digital juniper]

is it up on your youtube channel? if so i'll look for it

[civic ocean]

Nah unrecorded

[jade raptor]

So anyone have any advice on using the blades?

[olive sphinx]

you'd want to specify which aspect because they all play kinda differently i think

[jade raptor]

Uuuuhhh... 😭

Idk, not pan though, and i dont have the secret aspect yet

[olive sphinx]

the secret aspect is sooo good!! that's the only one i personally know how to play well lmaoo

[glass bone]

OAttack is fantastic on all the non Pan aspects.

Do be noted that Typhon and Scylla are completely and nearly immune to backstabs respectively.

[jade raptor]

Oh yeah, that's true!

You can take out scyllas band mates easier tho

[glass bone]

And no, you can’t play as Spy tf2 and face stab someone with the blades.

[jade raptor]

But why nooooot!

[spiral wadi]

morrigan's oattack acts like a facestab in that if scylla is facing towards you, you'll hit scylla

given that ur not close to scylla

[glass bone]

That’s why I said completely (Typhon) and nearly (Scylla)

They tried to make Scylla immune, but there have been tricks still to hurt her real good.

[jade raptor]

Also, do you get the secret aspects by playing with the weapons, or are there other requirements?

[spiral wadi]

iirc it's having all three aspects unlocked, at least one aspect maxed out, then talk to certain npcs until they drop it

[jade raptor]

Gotcha, I can do that

[civic ocean]

Its always the NPC for the second aspect

[jade raptor]

I got the uhhh aspect already, but I need iron... I also forgot i had it

Also, ares attack, hera special and trick knives already? This run is looking as fine as ambrosia

Nah and epic nitro boost? Damn! Whoever the Greek god of luck or fortune or whatever, theyre on my side

[formal pulsar]

For blades my advice is always start with blitz on the special hopefully with high rarity and then hope for good hammer and call it a day

[uneven palm]

Co-sign I do that a lot

[civic ocean]

Yeah I start Hera but same idea

Or fig leaf if surface

[uneven palm]

I like starting Hera cast on Mel blades. Takes care of crowd control issues and you can take like any attack that shows up

[thin cloud]

What’s good on aspect of shiva?

Rn I'm thinking Demeter attack, zeus special, hephaestus dash, and Aphro magik

[thin cloud]

Thoughts?

[formal pulsar]

I am not the most experienced shiva player (only played 40f) but here is my advice. Apollo attack and work for the lego. Hera gain with hitch and night arcana card and alternate ospecial with oatk . Counter supreme hammer is best.

[thin cloud]

What others for god pool?

Gonna need some solid magika gain

maybe poseidon?

Since it just fully recovers the cost?

[formal pulsar]

I would do Demeter for weed killer and Arctic ring

Hera gain should be enough for gain and hitch helps with spreading the damage.

[formal pulsar]

Poseidon works too but I like Hera more

[thin cloud]

Well yeah but I need another god so I dont get garbarge in my pool

[formal pulsar]

If you are maxing god pool and damage then prob Apollo Hera Aphro and Demeter. Aphro has the most global damage buffs.

[thin cloud]

Any fun builds to do with the chaos keepsake?

[stray pivot]

Yep
Mel Axe still delivers

[upper mountain]

What’s a good build for the blades?

[analog ether]

Prometheus is really friggen annoying when he does his ranged punch flurry, point blank. Usually right after I've had to dodge away from Heracles.

[spiral wadi]

yea u basically wanna be conscious of ur distance at all times

peripheral training

[empty musk]

For all the high fear players, what's the trick to timer on Erebus? I mostly play Surface high fear solely bc I hate this specific region but I have to be missing something bc I've only ever made it to Hecate with like 2 mins max occasionally on a good early game build (and even then she drains all that time)

[tall notch]

Timer is a suggestion, you can go overtime and recover DDs from Athena keepsake

[empty musk]

Yeah that's been my strat so far but I hate having to depend on Echo if I need a refill later (plus I like having flexibility with that region 2 keepsake)

[past salmon]

if ur making it to Hecate with ~2 minutes the main thing you would want to focus on is the hecate fight itself

since that fight realistically should be 1-1:20 long if ur playing it well

[empty musk]

Yeah I def need to practice Hecate more but even then the 2 min thing is like my high end, average I make it there is a min with the slower weapons

[past salmon]

its sort of hard to give advice on room clearing but I suppose a big thing I notice a lot of people who struggle more with time doing is uhh
ignoring revenants too much

you don't have to pick them up as they spawn but you do want to pick them up peoples

[empty musk]

Mhm yeah especially in that one wide Erebus arena

I just sigh when I see it now

[tall notch]

Wait is that rivals? I think I'm slower than that lol

1:30 is what I'd consider a good time

[past salmon]

yer

[glass bone]

I too have a question about high fear. Is it better to run Death or Strength with Nergal on Scars 3?

[tall notch]

Idk if surface is different but on UW I'd take DDs in high fear right now. So many refills!

[glass bone]

Even with Nergal?

Like I was thinking that Nergal would use a typical Brave Face / Tough Gain build, and I was curious as to if Strength is better or worse for that safety element.

[tall notch]

Nergal healing bypasses scars, you'll be fine in rooms

And DDs tend to be nice for bosses at least in my experience

[uneven palm]

Probably DDs but try stuff out. Red runs Strength, and I stick with Strength at like 50F but I’m stubborn

[digital juniper]

DDs especially nice for bosses due to them “soaking” overkill damage too, right?

[glass shell]

theoretically strength is better cause you heal "more" health per nergal proc due to the inbuilt DR - and if you ever lose even a single DD you are now net negative HP comparatively.

of course that assumes you never restore it via echo/shop/wells/athena

[glass bone]

I know that. That’s why I asked. Because on the one hand, Death Defiances without healing is more survivability. But on the other hand, Strength means that Nergal can ‘heal more’.

[tall notch]

Overkill damage and also I don't think strength reduces the damage from going overtime? Correct me if that got changed

[uneven palm]

Same damage with Strength or DDs, yeah. 5/sec

[civic ocean]

Strength you ought to think more about whether you get more out of the 20% damage early

Nergal doesn’t really need the boost to kill early mobs imo

[uneven palm]

I rarely find that 20% hugely impactful. An early Huntress I’ll notice

[empty musk]

I'm doing Strength Nergal rn and find it performing better than DD Nergal w/ the exception of Hecate timer but if most weapons can do 1-1:30 like Foolish said then I've just got to practice that fight

Still crazy to me tho how much easier Ephyra and Poly+Medea are than Erebus and Hecate

[glass bone]

Is it not just because of the Timer?

Like if it was Timer 2 or lower, I feel like they’d be closer to equal

[empty musk]

Even w/o timer Poly is a much more telegraphed fight than Hecate

Plus the enemies are way more telegraphed too, 1/2 of Erebus enemies feel like you have to damage boost to keep up with timer

[glass bone]

Fair. Maybe it’s because I’ve not yet dipped into Scars 3. After my many 50 Fear runs, I’m aiming to go for Circe 62.

Though that’ll be a journey (my actual idea is 55 by adding Onion and Pain 3, 57 by adding Scars 3, then the last bits of Grit and Hordes)

Or wait. Pain 3 is 3 Fear iirc now.

[empty musk]

Circe should do fine against Erebus bc of leash for wards and cast slowdown as long as you get a cast boon quickly

Onion has reduced me to giving up chamber 1 whenever I see Selene

Like I was never a hex hater but 62F is turning me into one

[glass bone]

My main concern at the moment is that I have relied on a bunch of boons to clear. Stuff like Nitro Boost, Lightning Lance, Demeter Attack/Special, etc.

So Onion plus the Grits and Hordes is why I’m starting with Onion as my first bump up from 50

[empty musk]

Mhm makes sense

[glass bone]

Then I’ll go for Scars. Then Pain, and then do Grit and Hordes in one go for 62

The only other weapon I can think of for me to do 62 in the more immediate future is Supay, since I got that 50 on my first try

I could see a setup where I use Breaker Rush and then grab Sea Star to mitigate Onion.

But also like. I’m calling myself the Circe Staff enjoyer. I need to do Circe for my namesake.

[empty musk]

My jump from 50F to 62F was mostly just addition of Onion, Scars 3 and all of Pain 4 so having to actually care ab chip damage was a huge learning curve even tho I was already used to room clear

[glass bone]

The added enemies against Timer wasn’t the main worry?

[empty musk]

Wdym you want ×2 onions or . . . ?

[glass bone]

No, I mean. If I get a whole bunch of non boon stuff, then I get more magic and health.

And yes, I know about Artificer.

[ocean ibex]

you always take lucid first on charon, yeah?

or you take hecuba, pretty much?

[glass bone]

Generally yes, it’s the best gain for Charon

[ocean ibex]

thats not what i mean

[empty musk]

Not really my old 50F philosophy was I just wanted to see if someone with this build that was better than me could beat the game, the room clear didn't become an issue until higher fear but only for Erebus

[glass bone]

Oh. Personally I haven’t used Hecuba for Charon.

[empty musk]

Since I don't care ab rarity I usually get Lucid second actually and try to get Solar/Tidal/Engagement first

[ocean ibex]

charon without magick feels so awful in erebus

[glass bone]

Yeah, but it can still work.

You still get 2 combos per room.

[ocean ibex]

without hecuba you get 3 ospecials and then you just have no aspect lol

[empty musk]

Lowkey I thought the gimmick of Erebus was gonna be having those magic refill stations in every room except Hecate

[spiral wadi]

ye circe is solid for erebus it's just bad cuz erebus waves suck ass and if u don't get at least 3 skip rooms or solid boon choices early on ur screwed anyway cuz it's so many 3-wavers

[empty musk]

But then we just end up those with those weak bubble shields and it only in the first room 💀

[glass bone]

Then the rest of 62 is just get good it seems.

[spiral wadi]

ye, i find uw first 2 regions to be the hardest, then surface last 2 regions are the hardest

[glass bone]

Then I presume there’s the difficulty spike of Rival Chronos?

[tall notch]

it's wild to hear about people's first 50f not involving all of the non-void vows

[spiral wadi]

yea both rcerb and rchronos are difficulty spikes

[tall notch]

It is big enough a spike that I've been doing 58f as opposed to 62 for now

[empty musk]

Really, cerb too? When he had his fireballs yeah but I feel like he's much more doable now

[glass bone]

This is why I considered doing 46 + Rival Chronos for my 50s, cause if I can get consistent at Rival Chronos, the jump to 62 may not be as bad

[ocean ibex]

i keep getting these insane choices in erebus midshop
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/742056287264833546/1407057493196017824/920894eb55bf6302265b3deab0797c84.jpg?ex=68a4b7e8&is=68a36668&hm=f299a0e0446204f0a2bd0fc270873fd7c933f857a7852d77c68f6d7c55d2c2dd&

[empty musk]

Like I consider Scylla more of a difficulty spike but that's just bc I get impatient after Erebus and play too recklessly

[glass bone]

Ok, here’s the thing I’d say. If it weren’t for Timer, the correct choice is the Dispute. But if you’re worried about Timer, take the dress and move on.

[spiral wadi]

even tho he no longer has unburrowing magma, he's still ruthless lmao, his firespit-dash-firespit attack is so bad if u don't have sprint buffs

[glass bone]

Chaos also probably isn’t worth it if Rival Hecate is a pain point, and many of the curses last till that fight.

[empty musk]

Mhm true Blinding Rush 💪

[spiral wadi]

it'd be cool if they added a clear "convergence" point in the fire spit attack so the alternative is to space urself at a specific point around cerb instead of being forced to get all the way near cerb

[glass bone]

Also Nitro Boost.

[ocean ibex]

accidentally locked myself out of exceptional talent on charon oops

[glass bone]

Because of Denial?

[ocean ibex]

i denialed strike and took sworn flourish

[spiral wadi]

yea blinding rush and nitro boost are imperative for rcerb and rchronos rn, it's why i go for apollo keepsake in fields

[empty musk]

The only curse I think you absolutely can never take is the movement debuff, the attack/special/cast dmg if it's your main source, and the damage stun one (which will just autokill you if you run out of time btw)

[glass bone]

It’s fine though, since you could aim for the hammer.

[empty musk]

Preview chambers feel pretty bad too since you might miss the guaranteed special chambers

[glass bone]

I feel like the thing to do after I get 62 is to see how many boons can be pushed up.

[spiral wadi]

if they showed the locked out oceanus chambers instead of hiding them maybe id take them more, otherwise i just simplify and not deal with it

[glass bone]

Like… I don’t think I’d ever be this good, but imagine a 62 run that brings along say, Heaven / Hell Splitter.

[granite bridge]

Hi new to the game I just got tranquill gain from Demeter what does inactive mean exactly?

[ocean ibex]

yeahhh im just gonna reset my run

[glass bone]

You must take no actions

[empty musk]

Not touching the stick or any button for at least 0.5 seconds

[glass bone]

That means no movement, no attacks, no channeling.

[granite bridge]

Oh that’s kinda bad lol thx guys

[empty musk]

Best way to test if it's theoretically possible is 50F everything minus Scars, Pain and Void

But even then I doubt it is since not being able to damage boost will force you to play them way more safely and slowly

[glass bone]

Also, to be clear, I’m not talking about the Black Night Banishment timer removal.

Anything can be brought up hypothetically there, but it would be very unfun to do that for every single boon/weapon for 62-67.

If there was a seed system, maybe. Even that. That would suck. And it would be a grind that’s probably not worth it.

[empty musk]

It is kinda weird to think that every build can for sure beat Surface but maybe not UW solely bc of Black Night Banishment

Honestly it's weirder as a whole that Surface high fear is easier than UW high fear since the intention's the opposite up to 32F

[glass bone]

Yeah. Though I probably will almost always prefer Underworld rivals to Surface rivals

Like Polyphemus is my favorite rivals fight, but i feel like the rest on Surface have bigger problems than the combined issues with Underworld.

[ocean ibex]

im struggling so much in erebus today, maybe its not a 50f attempt day

i tried charon, medea, charon, all of them left erebus with less than 3 dds

[civic ocean]

Most 62s ive seen leave erebus having lost 1-2 dds

[glass bone]

Ok, I am wondering… what set of vows are you using?

[empty musk]

If possible use this website and just put in your vows since it'll be easier:
https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator

[glass bone]

I think you replied to the wrong person.

[empty musk]

No I meant that towards ry, just a followup on what you said

[glass bone]

Oh. My bad.

[formal pulsar]

Sacrifice boon into Apollo special. Ez gaem

[spiral wadi]

can't lose a dd if u don't have dd (strength mentality)

[empty musk]

I'm trying to get on the Strength mentality w/ Nergal rn but timer is so cruel 😔

[spiral wadi]

yeaa it's why i like surface for at least having a super stable ephyra and thessaly time, erebus fluctuates too much

[glass bone]

Then perhaps some more feedback needs to be shared.

[spiral wadi]

sometimes u get to hecate in 2 minutes, other times there's 20 seconds left on the clock

[empty musk]

I feel like ppl have been tho for like several patches

[glass bone]

That Erebus has issues with Timer at higher fears, so some difficulty of Erebus and Hecate needs to be shifted.

[empty musk]

Like even Flower spams that feedback (and Flower never wants anything changed 💀 )

[glass bone]

Then more needs to be done I guess. Surely it’ll be listened to (coping)

[formal pulsar]

This convo feels like “Surface runners discovering how brutal Erebus can be”

[spiral wadi]

i did uw before surface lol

[empty musk]

Basically

[spiral wadi]

unless ppl here are surface first

[glass bone]

I’m not a Surface runner though

[empty musk]

I'm Surface first for 62F

[spiral wadi]

dam nice

[formal pulsar]

Just kinda funny how Thessaly used to be the timer killer on the surface before unseen. How did they fix that? I don’t remember

[spiral wadi]

uhh for one charybdis doesn't have a ton of hp anymore

[empty musk]

Thessaly guarantees 2 special chambers now (warden, midshop, fountain, trial of the gods or Circe)

[spiral wadi]

yeaa thessaly feels more consistent in length now, i like how it's primarily a 1-wave or 2-wave thing

[formal pulsar]

Still hate having bugged Heracles on Thessaly but otherwise it feels way better

[spiral wadi]

if only erebus was changed to be 2-wavers max

tbh i'm fine with hecate remaining a 1-minute boss atm, as long as the rooms feel fair/consistent to actually clear and not multiple spindles running around in one of the largest rooms in the game

like in ephyra at least in large rooms the enemies will always be attacking you and moving towards you

[empty musk]

I'm not even sure if the 1-min thing is entirely true tho, like Medea or any duo build can totally do it but like . . . is Eos or Mel axe ever gonna be able to do that hitless w/ max grit 💀

[glass bone]

Well I submitted some feedback about it. Hopefully this gains traction and I covered what needed to be said.

[spiral wadi]

ah i have no experience w a lot of other weapons so ig yea it can vary then

[formal pulsar]

Tbf boated just did an almost hitless eos run against Hecate today

[empty musk]

What were the vows and boons

[glass bone]

It was 62

[formal pulsar]

62f

Hitch attack and Poseidon special and static shock

[glass bone]

So it really is a consistency thing perhaps.

[formal pulsar]

And he was cursed with slow move during the Hecate fight

[glass bone]

As in, sometimes you get 2 minutes, and other times you get like 30 seconds.

Ok, I just checked Boated’s video.

Boated starts with 2:15 on the Timer, and ends with 55 on the timer, with Eos 62 Fear

At-least in seconds

[empty musk]

Yeah so 1:20 without sheep (and even then that was w/ Dark Side during phase 2)

Unless there's another Eos run he did I'm not looking at

[formal pulsar]

He had the cheaper hex dress not the channel speed one

[glass bone]

Well Boated did not get sheeped.

[empty musk]

Oops my b forgot they swapped it

[glass bone]

He avoided it at 1:20 left though if that’s what you meant.

[formal pulsar]

Plus for him he had dark side
Negative he had slow move speed during the entire fight

I think they cancel each other

[empty musk]

Oh you mean the Chaos curse

[formal pulsar]

Yeah he was cursed

[glass bone]

Honestly, I feel like Underworld 62’s main problem is Erebus. If it was tweaked like Thessaly, I think more people would do Underworld than Surface.

[empty musk]

Even then looking at this boon screen this is pretty high roll for Erebus

[glass bone]

**still probably bias though. I should change my nickname to ‘Typhon and Prom hater’

[glass bone]

Sure you’re probably forced into running Artificer for most weapons, but like… that’s fine, right?

[civic ocean]

I don’t think that’s necessarily true

Like Erebus you can low roll but I don’t find it that hard to get out

[empty musk]

I mean it's def usually possible to get out (*if you have DDs and are willing to give up every single one of them)

[civic ocean]

Every single one? Idk about that but yeah you can choose to trade safety for speed for sure

I just started my 62s and I guess Circe is pretty powerful but after shaking off the rust from playing surface only for 3 weeks or whatever I felt like I could get there with like one good break

Like taking trials too

[empty musk]

Circe's not just powerful it's suited to dealing with hordes and wards, I'm talking like Mel axe or non-hammer daggers here

[civic ocean]

Hmm idk I guess we’ll have to see

[empty musk]

I guess you could say it's more of an issue w weapon balance but this was something we dealt with in Hades 1, where it was arguably worse bc casts couldn't proc it

[formal pulsar]

I mean sure every 62 clear is prob gonna need some form of high rolling. But he put himself in a position to high by picking chaos before Erebus last shop risking Hecate fight and picking artificer which gave 2 extra boons that run.

You play the odds a bit at this difficulty level.

[empty musk]

True but some aspects def have greater odds than others rn

[glass bone]

Aye. It really does feel like Circe Staff was designed to clear 62. It has no reliance on magic, it can be multifunctional with different gods and hammers, and it’s a safe/fast weapon

It’s why that I’m really scared for a potential Circe nerf. I fear it’ll come in 1.0…

[empty musk]

If they nerf Circe instead of Medea cast glitch I quit

[civic ocean]

Idk what really changed for mel axe from when ppl were doing 50f with it to now?

[empty musk]

Mostly just every rivals boss making timer tighter plus including attack patterns that are undodgable at certain points in attack combo

Also I think ppl mostly did Dashing Heave and Romantic Spark (an entirely separate issue) which got nerfed through poms

[glass bone]

Hmmm… well I did find this video that’s like really recent: https://youtu.be/jBJ1Vy9MlZ8?si=otf3h2sEzv-3KGHH

I can’t find all of the details here, but what they did use was Void (6 Grasp).

**and also this is Warsong I believe

[civic ocean]

I wonder if Mel Axe could be played in a similar way to how I was playing spinless nergal

[formal pulsar]

Tbh I am really not convinced Mel axe is that weak. Just that it fell off the meta because a bunch of really good axe players all happened to quit right at this patch.

It was the first weapon to clear 55f during the warsong patch for months.

[glass bone]

Ok, so I see a mix here with Mel Axe. I’ve seen Aphro and Hera Attack, Dashing Heave, and Psychic Whirlwind as what seem to be key elements.

[empty musk]

I mean ig if spinless Than can do it, Mel axe rapid slash can technically do it but like at that point pack it up 😭

[civic ocean]

I think the argument as I understand it is that it “doesn’t count” if you have to high roll?

[glass bone]

Although Psychic Whirlwind was just in one of the Warsong videos I found

[empty musk]

Basically, like every weapon in the game can prob beat 62F bc of Heph but at that point come on yall

[glass bone]

Moon water 2.0?

[empty musk]

Also wasn't that while axe still had block or was that after the change

[formal pulsar]

Axe was removed way back before the Olympus update (like 3 major updates ago)

[empty musk]

😔 I miss it like it was yesterday

[civic ocean]

I think we’re wrong all the time about what weapons are capable of what and pushing that is like the fun thing about the game

I still remember the whole Pan thing fondly

[formal pulsar]

Like dashing heave Mel axe still claps cheeks

[empty musk]

True but like I still consider Pan bad since I don't want to have to play every run hinging on getting Trick Knives

[formal pulsar]

What confuses me is why nergal despite being so dependent on psychic whirlwind never gets the same amount of criticism as pan or Mel axe.

[empty musk]

Bc Nergal can totally survive without Psychic, it's def the best and most transformative hammer but there's plenty of other good hammers in that pool

[glass bone]

I feel like Nergal is not the same with reliance with Psychic Whirlwind. It is the best one to get, but stuff like Furious or Iron Core can be very helpful to get.

[empty musk]

But like Sudden Flurry and Hidden Knives have been gutted bc devs hate Poseidon Pan

[glass bone]

That does make me curious though… how many top tier axe players quit in Unseen? And how many are left?

[civic ocean]

Idk similarly I bet that dunk + rapid mel axe is probably good enough to do a 62

[formal pulsar]

You have mynt machi red not uploading anymore

[empty musk]

Check crossroads and it'll give you a pretty good idea of the state the weapon's in

[formal pulsar]

Each did at least 53f clear with Mel axe with and without dashing heave

When 55f was max fear

[empty musk]

Funnily enough tho I think Coat is less played at high fear (purely bc of QoL issues)

[civic ocean]

I guess so I mean I think Purple makes a good point that most of the mel axe grinders stopped playing

I just arbitrarily picked no spin nergal instead of mel axe to climb with

[glass bone]

So then we need a standup for axes.

Hmmmmm…. I’ll consider it, but I want to get used to 62 first (preferably with the ‘easy’ Circe / Supay)

And if I do try Mel Axe 62, it’ll probably be Underworld only.

[civic ocean]

Again I repeat myself - concern yourself not with the actions of others - if you think Yoshi or DK can win a major, push them as far as you can go, yknow? The game doesn’t care who has 62f clears on whatver weapon or path or arcana or god. Have your own ideas and push them as far as you can

[glass bone]

Ok. I get it.

[empty musk]

This will be me at 1.0 trying to push Selene WC past 50f, I don't think I'll succeed 😭

[civic ocean]

Winner’s Circle?

[empty musk]

Yuh

[civic ocean]

I did a 51 with WC last week you can definitely do it

[empty musk]

Yeah it's definitely possible in UW bc of Chaos

[civic ocean]

Oh I did surface

There’s always a combo of rng and strong play for this stuff IMO

[empty musk]

Mhm night cycling with special and omega makes sense

Idk if it can survive grit and hordes surface tho

Honestly in hindsight doing 50F through Scars 4 would’ve been way easier

It prob would’ve trained me better to go hitless for later fear

Instead of using healing as a crutch

I just loved phial too much 😔

[civic ocean]

Yeah idk I haven’t played with healing on in a long time

I probably will for 1.0 story

[digital juniper]

you planning on running a fresh file for it?

[vague eagle]

Does the Vow of Void limit what cards I can gain using the Judgment card?

[glass shell]

no

[median anvil]

nope

[upper rapids]

any strategies against the satyr miniboss in Ephyra with shadow servant on?

that thing is worse than poly and eris with how much damage it does to me every time
feels impossible to dodge

[olive sphinx]

uhhhhhhh do it last because doing it with no boons is the worst thing in the world for sure

[past salmon]

Supay 62 is not easy

[upper rapids]

second to last currently and still hell

[glass bone]

Because of the loss to staggering foes? Or because of the grit / wards / hordes?

[upper rapids]

you try to dodge one attack and then the other just rushed you or launches that triple projectile attack

[past salmon]

Because that thing is absolute dogwater in Erebus

[olive sphinx]

because of the onion too

[past salmon]

Damage so low you may as well be healing enemies

[glass bone]

Idk if I got lucky, but compared to the 5 clears I have done at 50, Supay was the only one I had to do in one try.

[olive sphinx]

lmaooo 😭

[glass bone]

Then I guess it’s because I don’t have the real pain points for Supay yet.

[past salmon]

Mfw toula does more damage than me

[glass bone]

Yeah, must be luck then.

Keep forgetting I got a 10 pommed Heroic Breaker Rush. If only I went for 62 there…

Whatever. Circe it is then.

[past salmon]

Breaker rush is pretty mid at 62

You can't really start with it cuz wards will eat you alive when it's all you have

[glass bone]

Better to go with Heat Rush then?

[past salmon]

I started Zeus

[upper rapids]

triggering the shades around the map for dmg might actually be a strat for supay thoughts?

[past salmon]

Special not dash*

[glass bone]

I see. I was told Breaker or Heat for ‘high fear’

**as in 50

[past salmon]

Yeh I mean

Supay is good once U have boons the main thing you have to worry about is Erebus

[glass bone]

Oh. Got it.

[past salmon]

And in my experience breaker is miserable and heat rush feels bad too

You want breaker later ideally I think

Also.starting Zeus opens you up to hit static later which is super duper good

[glass bone]

Hmmm.., Zeus Special / Keepsake Erebus, Poseidon Rush / Keepsake Oceanus, Knuckle Bones / Gorgon Amulet Mourning Fields, Gorgon Amulet / Pin Tartarus?

[upper rapids]

is attack power worth on hel like secret crush or do you always rely on the onhit effects

[glass bone]

Although Knuckle Bones could be traded for like Droplet or something else if I still have some death defiances after 2 regions.

[past salmon]

Hmm yeh that's probs okay
Personally I just spam rerolls on Erebus miniboss to get my 2nd most important god 🔥

[glass bone]

I get that, but I also want to save some of my rerolls because there’s been a few runs where Renewed Faith didn’t show up before Rival 4 (on both Surface and Underworld)

Ideally 3 or more Fate Die are saved for such a thing (9 chances at finding the boon should be enough)

[upper rapids]

do you just go for coins and pray for a dd refill in final shop if tha thappens or is it joever

[past salmon]

Simply don't get hit

[glass bone]

For my current skill level, I feel like it’s just over. I’ve used more than one death defiance for Rival Chronos each time I do it.

There may come a time where I don’t even need any death defiances for Rival Chronos, but that day is not today.

[upper rapids]

revolutionary

[glass bone]

‘I play without Fates and Persistence because I just happen to not get hit and get lucky. It’s the pro Strat’

But in all seriousness. I get it. Really would love to hitless / death defiance-less Rival Chronos, but I haven’t done it yet.

[upper rapids]

fates?

[glass bone]

The 0 card that gives more fate die

[upper rapids]

oh i was thinking of furies for some reason im dumb

[glass bone]

If I may ask then, what are the easiest weapons to do 62 Fear with?

Oh wait, wrong reply.

[spiral wadi]

circe

[glass bone]

Well yes. But other than Circe

That’s why I said weapons

[past salmon]

Probably Circe Mel staff Nergal if you don't mind psychic whirlwind prayge simulator, Nyx isn't too hard, Moros is ok,

Oh and Anubis is probs almost on par with Circe imo

[upper rapids]

what makes morrigan not as great as those for high fear

[glass bone]

I find it fun that Staff is consistently the best weapon considering the combined aspects.

[past salmon]

Morrigan is great it's just harder to use

It's definitely very very good tho 👍

[upper rapids]

oh aight

[spiral wadi]

staff be very solid rn

[past salmon]

It's a shame the Moveset still feels like poo to play apart from Anubis (opinion)

[upper rapids]

sad that i only find one aspect fun

anubis gang anubis gang

[spiral wadi]

circe frinos go brr

easier to guide leash (still 10sec cd in this channel)

[glass bone]

I believe in Toula Circe. Added damage for Erebus, and if Renewed Faith is taken, that’s 8 death defiances across the run.

[upper rapids]

is there any build for no valk form hel?
im asking as to find out if whats holding me back is the lack of valk usage since i prime lots with hubris

[spiral wadi]

ye, i just cannot psychologically deal with waking up toula so i just run raki or frinos

[glass bone]

I hate that too. But the damage done can make up for lost time.

If only she woke up at the start of each room.

[past salmon]

You can cope really really really really hard on the omega attack hammer

[spiral wadi]

yea if toula was awake at the start thatd be so much better lol

[upper rapids]

+2 attacks?

[past salmon]

All you need is like a billion % channel speed and then it's only very much worse than valk form rather than unusable trash

[upper rapids]

did try it but like once or something

omega attack just feels like cosplaying a worse staff omega special

maybe i do more runs without hubris and see if i can finally beat typhon with hel

[glass bone]

See, clearly what we need on Hel is a version of Possessed Array. “Every 4th hit in your Valkyrie form fires your Omega Attack, but you lose 25 Magic.”

[upper rapids]

near no hit frenzy 2 rivals eris but ofc she had to hide in the bomb smoke and clip me , then in the fire

one day maybe

[civic ocean]

My eyes! Ruined!