h2-builds-and-combat

[proven edge]

Celeste tag <3 peak game

[tall notch]

oh cool

@past salmon you are actually fantastic

[proven edge]

Foolish is the goat of the server ON GOD

I've gotten so much advice from him and Mynt

[tall notch]

(even if i think you have a bit too much speedrunner brainrot, like slow down a little jeez)

[past salmon]

Maybe speed up idk man 😭

[sage flame]

for fear morrigan are there any duos you try for or is it just whatever shows up

[past salmon]

Playing for duos is how you get checked into a psyche ward at very high fear

[tall notch]

and actually how is the special on morrigan? do you end up using it a lot?

[past salmon]

You sure do use it to proc triad

[tall notch]

what even is a duo boon?

I've never seen one of those in my droplet start runs

[past salmon]

I miss patch 2 Spiteful Strength strats
Those were lit

[past salmon]

Also trueing so hard

[tall notch]

OH YEAH AND THEN WHEN VOW OF PENCIL META FORCED YOU TO TAKE AN ATTACK OR A SPECIAL SO YOUR RUN WAS OVER

[past salmon]

Or like

You just remembered instead of being goofy

[proven edge]

playing for boons

[brave dove]

spinners my beloathed

[tall notch]

i love the hippo

[brave dove]

'aha my ospecial has killed the hippo'

'oh no my ospecial has killed the hippo'

[dull citrus]

What is best build for Thanatos axe? I suck with that weapon and always seem to do better with Mel axe

On 25-30 Heat

Also does anyone ever use eos torches? I feel they might get replaced in v 1 as I’ve literally never seen content of them or heard of their use

[brave dove]

eos torches have their fans but they're in an awkward spot atm and will likely be adjusted in 1.0, yes

Thanatos does well with the same boons Mel Axe does, play around Mortality and using oattack when you have decent numbers on it. If you get hit a lot and don't need the attack speed, Mel Axe is probably better for you.

[quartz parrot]

can i get a build for nergal

[dull citrus]

Probs cuz I get hit a lot

I also have a quick question for many builds. How does aphro’s proximity element work? If you are a certain distance away, do you get no attack buff at all, and is there a visual way to tell what that range is

I imagine when it says you must hit close to foes, it’s how far Mel is from the hit taking place as it takes place

[hollow briar]

It’s based on a somewhat arbitrary distance. You get a sense of how far away that is pretty quickly, but afaik there’s no visual indicator of it

[tall notch]

I used to be the #1 Eos Fan before we got together with Nyx, what's up?

[plush vapor]

Madeline celeste the goat

[topaz meteor]

Hello I'm really struggling with the skull weapon, my builds so far are mild at best, not sure how to do damage, when I do it's mostly because of Origination

[topaz meteor]

I'd like to know as well lol, but usually I don't bother because I either only use a close range weapon or get the aphro pos duo

[stuck token]

Has the athena keepsake's probability decreased? I frequetnly don't see her across an entire zone

[median anvil]

what is vow of pencil

[plush vapor]

what aspect

[median anvil]

I'm intrigued

[plush vapor]

blitz is always good for damage

[tall notch]

so, with the vow that removes unpicked boons from the pool for that night, you are now able to check what is gone through the codex. that was not always the case, so to be on the safe side of things you'd want to write down which boons you are picking throughout the run

[topaz meteor]

I've tried Mel and Persephone, I think Persephone was reworked I haven't touched it in ages and I don't recognize the description

[plush vapor]

it was reworked

[topaz meteor]

Haven't tried Medea

[median anvil]

oh right, getting denial'd

[plush vapor]

medea is very good

i think it's been nerfed recently but still great

[stuck token]

Persephone is kind of nuts honestly

[topaz meteor]

On the attack or special?

[stuck token]

I choose a cheese build since I'm not actually good at the game

[plush vapor]

for medea i think special

idk it doesn't matter too much

[stuck token]

It gives a 0-6 level boost to skills you take, they I believe they reduced average number of levels/poms it gives

[plush vapor]

for melinoe i used to send out all my skulls, then omega special in to get them

since u get i frames its good

[topaz meteor]

wait i frames during ospecial?

[uneven palm]

Base skull just take Hera or Apollo or Aphro on attack. Empty your clip at mid-close range, tap special to retrieve. Good hammers are Bolstered, Possessed, or Fetching.

Medea attack, tap special to ram into a baddie to pop it, repeat as fast as you can. Don't get hit. Zeus special and whatever +% attack is the build. Possessed, Boosted, Colossus Driver hammers all good.

Persephone play like Mel Skull but you want assorted flat damage to boost Sprouted for extra-long Omega specials, during which you can steer and you're invulnerable. You can do funny Heph stuff if you get lucky with Poms to bring the cooldown down. Hestia's reliable. Heinous Affront (Zeus Ares duo) with Light Smite from Apollo is probably the strongest overall play

[uneven palm]

Yes with non-Hel skulls you're invulnerable during the O special

[topaz meteor]

thank you!! will try all three

[topaz meteor]

so from my understanding, theres only omega special for persephone and the others use regular?

[uneven palm]

like you can use them with the others if you need to nab your skulls out of something dangerous

But Mel or Medea you're probably not doing it often, if ever

[regal kettle]

what builds are best with persephone skull? would hephaestus be good because his boons scale down in seconds compared to up in percentages on level ups?

[stuck token]

Definitely everyone's going to give you a different answer, but I've had really good luck with burn on attack and aphrodite on special for burst

[willow phoenix]

Heph on Persephone is very cool since it allows you to charge sprouted fast and you can get to 2 sec blast pretty easily

If you do get to 2 sec blast the O special part of the gameplay can even be ignored lol

Just play a blast build

[regal kettle]

lol thats what i was thinking

[stuck token]

and then I use poseidon dash to complete the prereq for island getaway - the core for me is burning desire, island getaway, and glamour gain. Once you get a good pyro effect it'll recharge your gauge passively so you can focus on invulning attacks

[regal kettle]

will that win on 32 heat surface runs tho

[willow phoenix]

I mean probably if you don't get wards, blast builds are very powerful if you get the right boons

[stuck token]

Yes, in my experience. I have a chronos fight from this morning, is youtube still the easiest place to share?

I realize chronos isn't the same as the surface, but I find the burn and aphrodite special still hit hard enough to tear down typhon

And for fights like prometheus the burn on him and heracles basically refill your bar instantly between specials

So you can focus on dodging/invulning

[stuck token]

chronos example with it https://youtu.be/cL6nwqKom_w?si=Pk6gMx5az-jHCuO9&t=20. I'm not good at the game but it makes it easy

[uneven palm]

Do Heinous Affront with Light Smite. Big damage and instant sprouted

[wide hollow]

Any tips on how to use Hephaestus effectively? I want to use him more but I dont know how without feeling clunky

[south hull]

His booms are best on things that hit a lot of target once, all at once. Axe special comes to mind.

omega special that is

[glass bone]

For most weapons, you’d avoid the blast attack, special, and dash. The exceptions are Axe special (as PorkSocks said), but preferably Mel Axe (because all of the other axes attack faster, and there I’m not certain), and Persephone Skull (provided you roll high, the blast timer on especially dash and special will be so low, you could have near 100% availability each time you use it. Attack is a bit harder to justify because of the 4 skulls, but I guess it’s better than no boon).
Then there’s the other 2 Primaries. Anvil Ring is useful on most weapons (save for Charon Axe) because of a simple combo with Winner’s Circle. It’s not the strongest ever, and the cast weapons of Charon Axe and Circe Staff could use better options, but it’s a nice combo to coincide with a different weapon combo for more damage. As for Tough Gain, that would be used for some regeneration build (perhaps Nergal is best), but again, its not the best option in for some weapons.
As for the non-primaries, really solid stuff. Being able to gain added damage and some armor to soak up damage is great.

[civic ocean]

Offensively Heph is mostly going to be utilized for his cast which does a lot of damage, or with the Aspect of Persephone which provides lots of “Pom” upgrades - in order for heph’s blast to be relied upon they have to have their cooldown significantly reduced.

Tough Gain is situationally strong on aspects that like damage reduction, and the sprint is okay if you need heph on a core for a duo boon.

Hephastus is the best defensive god in the game. You are most always happy to see him after your initial god combo is complete. He adds a ton of survivability and longevity to your run.

[glass bone]

Hmmm… to this end, I wonder what 1.0 will do to Hephaestus. Because if his attack boons are buffed to a similar level to other gods (or even slightly below), then he may be picked over many other gods because he’d have everything. As much as it sucks for the blast boons to not really be that strong in the current meta, I almost fear the possibility of a monkey’s paw, where the blast boons are buffed, and everything else about Hephaestus is nerfed.

[civic ocean]

Seems fine to leave the blast boons where they are

[patent crest]

I've barely used Skull and Coat. Any easy, strong boons for either?

or Hammers to watch out for?

[glass bone]

Got a favorite or least favorite to try for each? Since all of them I’d say play differently from each other.

[eager ivy]

what gods should I be picking for mel coat? if not mel then for the other coats? trying to clear 16 fear surface and having a hard time

[elfin forge]

maybe apollo? I know Poseidon doesn't work great on coat dashattack anymore

also coat attack generally wants a bit more area, and then you could use something like Zeus or Hestia or even ares special

I think the play is to spam click both special and normal, and also use dash attack frequently

while avoiding the omegas

[eager ivy]

yeah the attack omega feels clunky. I tried playing it like the first game's shield a few times and its just too mana hungry

[glass bone]

Can’t give advice on the hidden aspects, but as for some I can share.
Mel Skull: Get Percentage damage for the attack boons (stuff like Apollo, Aphrodite, etc.). Look out for the hammer that gives +2 skulls, and spam it as a sort of mid-to short range attack.
Medea Skull: Take Zeus Special, and I think percentage damage? I remember the Zeus Special, but I forget who’s the strongest for attack. Possessed Array from what I remember is strong.
Persephone Skull: Reroll for high level boons (ideally 6). You can’t go wrong with most things, but Hephaestus Special and something else on attack could be great.
Mel Coat: Don’t have any specific god boons in mind atm, so I’ll just say to say to spam your specials, mix in attacks. Not the other way around. The hammer that adds specials to attacks is also great.
Selene Coat: near mandatory to take the hilt. Take the Grievous Blow, the Godsent, and then start killing stuff.

[willow phoenix]

For Shiva the easiest way to play it is to put Apollo on attack then spam that O attack. The AoE is huge and can easily clear rooms. For tankier enemies you can use O special then O attack to trigger Night crit chance. Destruction stacking most of the time is not worth bothering after 1 stack unless you have like Counter Supreme hammer

For Hel, the strongest build rn is probably still Poseidon attack + static shock, then maybe master conductor. The special can be a lot of gods like Hera or Apollo. Usually just use O special then spam attack until the buff runs out

[glass bone]

Oh yeah… Hel. That reminds me of some arcana. I heard that Hel is one of the few weapons where Unseen is a strongly recommended pick. Would Shiva be the same?

[uneven palm]

Winners Circle doesn't do anything for Heph cast (or any cast, other than shorten it) now

[glass bone]

Oh. They took it out? Must have been why I didn’t feel that good taking it.

[willow phoenix]

I don't really think you need Unseen when you can just get like Born Gain or other strong gains. You'd need a strong gain anyway since Shiva eats magick a lot

it's like the best aspect in the game to fuel hexes, another fun thing to do with Shiva

Generally I feel like picking Unseen is only worth if you can spend the rest of the run without a gain boon, otherwise it's not worth the cost. If you ditch something like Origination for Unseen on magick heavy aspects it feels kinda bad since you most likely would be using hexes with that aspect and Origination matters a lot for hex damage. And Boatman + 10 rerolls can usually just get you a good gain boon

[uneven palm]

Any combo of Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hestia, Ares on attack/special should be fine. Do special attack attack as a baseline combo

Actually probably Apollo isn't bad either with all the base damage boosts the coat got recently

[patent crest]

thanks so much!

[topaz quiver]

What's a good god and relic combo for the moonstone axe? Specifically to clear the game on base difficulty

[elfin forge]

upgrade Mel axe as much as you can, then get aphro or apollo attack

Use Aphro/apollo keepsake first zone, then keep swapping out your keepsake. Last zone you can use something like Knucklebones

[errant latch]

I like the following builds:

• aspect: thanatos
• keepsake: aphrodite
• main boon: aphrodite attack
• playstyle: spam omega attack (aka spin to win)
  OR
• aspect: charon
• keepsake: apollo
• main boons: apollo special, apollo gain
• playstyle: spam omega special

doggo pet is also strongly encouraged as it lets you spam more omegas

[topaz quiver]

Awesome, thank you so much!

[stuck token]

Is thanatos omega attack build better than nergal?

[elfin forge]

yeah probably

[desert shell]

Does the leash from circe staff proc AQ?

Also best familiar for high heat?

[uneven palm]

Frinos or Gale or Hecuba if you need magick

[hollow briar]

Pretty much all of them are usable except for Toula lol

[spiral wadi]

raki for damage, hecuba for magick, gale for defense

frinos is cool if you're able to adapt to where he goes

toula kinda , would be cool if they gave her smth like inheriting rush boon

[uneven palm]

You can use Toula's DD, summon Athena, then get 4 full DDs which isn't insane

[spiral wadi]

doom keepsake and location-based dd

[solemn loom]

definitely not Toula, sorry.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1272385014150991875/1391892548158623804/Screenshot_2025-07-07_at_5.23.55_PM.png?ex=686d8c73&is=686c3af3&hm=96e51f738bd6dd695af2a72afecb176188e648910aea3e1b456043bdaebdb4f8&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[spiral wadi]

holy lmaoo

[hot tendon]

my first run on Supay, 16 fear to get undergroud conqueror, it started super scuffed as i lost 1 DD on Hecate as i ran out of time at beggining of the fight, then i ended up with 10 mins to spare after killing Chronos

[hot tendon]

What's thiat site

[brazen ore]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/Stats

(goes without saying but the stats are obvs biased by the nature of this being a self-reporting kind of thing)

[uneven palm]

Toula usage at extreme fear was like that previous patches too. Not zero but not much

[brazen ore]

(so take some things with a grain of salt but yeah cat isn't used a lot)

[hot tendon]

how does charon exactly work, is it ok to just place under myself and the dmg spreads to the O special blast or does it need to be under the enemy to have the bonus dmg ?

[elfin forge]

they need to be in the cast for the explosion

so either use a ranged cast and detonate from afar, or cast on top of the enemy and then ospec right there in their face

[hot tendon]

yes i like to use hestia or zeus cast being ranged - mean the fireball and etc

[desert shell]

Do we know which weapons/attacks override the Poseidon splash cool down?

[solemn loom]

The stats are compiled from all available gameplay videos for patches 9 and 10, covering Fear levels 22 to 62. Now to 32+

They may be biased depending on what the community chooses to upload.

[brazen ore]

That's like kinda what I mean though, I guess self reporting was the wrong word, but I mean like it's skewed by the nature of who produces the most videos/gameplay at high fear and what they personally prefer

That's not a bad thing, just something to keep in mind for some things

[solemn loom]

That's about as good as it gets, since SSG doesn't gather any statistics.

[brazen ore]

Again, not saying it's bad or that it could be better. I agree it's as good as it could possibly be and is an amazing resource

[solemn loom]

Not saying there's anything wrong — just that if the community comes together and contributes, the dataset would be less skewed.

[arctic fable]

Random thought: I ain't no fear runner but has anyone tried 64 fear now that rivals is out

[solemn loom]

There are a few more things I wanted to add, but it’s a bit too much for one person to handle alone.

[brazen ore]

Just felt like it was a decent caveat to add bc people have a tendency to take stats as gospel otherwise

[elfin forge]

people have tried, the only successful clears are ate 62

[arctic fable]

Ooooooh

[brazen ore]

Yeah I wish it was pinned here. Is it pinned in speedcord? It's really an amazing resource. I'd offer to help but I know nothing about coding

[solemn loom]

You're absolutely right — the skewed variables become apparent as you adjust the fear range in the data.

Honestly, I’m still updating it just for the aesthetic. haha

[hollow briar]

67’s max now as well, but 62’s the closest so far as I know

[solemn loom]

No coding is needed since that part is complete. Everything is added through spreadsheets, but the scale is quite overwhelming.

16 columns for each entry. lul

[brazen ore]

so you need people to help add the info to the spreadsheet?

[solemn loom]

Would you be interested in helping out? It would be great to have a few more contributors. The data is not sensitive or confidential.
We can also include everyone’s ign/names on the website to acknowledge their contributions.

[brazen ore]

I'd definitely be interested. The amount of time I have to help is going to fall off pretty severely soon, but I'm relatively free for the next month.

[solemn loom]

No worries, there are still several things I need to finalize before v1.0, need to survey what to track boon-wise. So that people’s contributions won’t go to waste.

[sage flame]

have u merged any data with mini?

[fluid quail]

what do you run with morrigan, apollo atk + whjat?

[cerulean panther]

I run Hera Attack.

[brave dove]

this is how I'm trying to push through a circe 50 atm

well, tomorrow really, but it's my gameplan and it worked decently the first couple of attempts tonight

[frank creek]

since the new path arrived, can someone tell me easy charon builds for overworld?vow of rivals 4? I am really not used to cast builds

[cerulean panther]

Lucid Gain from Apollo is almost always your most important boon.

Geyser Spout from Poseidon is a game changer.

[uneven palm]

Good builds are the same each direction. You start Apollo for Lucid Gain, get Origination online however between cast/gusts/special, add Geyser Spout or even whatever Omega cast goodies like Prominence Flare or Meat Grinder or Local Climate or Hostile Environment

[uneven palm]

I did that with Circe last major patch. Think I started Antler for Erebus?

dunno that I'd do that with rivals right now…

[safe root]

what arcana cards should I be running with the base moonstone axe? I have 27 grasp currently

[uneven palm]

Rolls and cash corner, persistence, strength or death, Huntress

[light galleon]

Hi guys, I really need some tips for the surface (Rift of thessaly, mainly)...
Thing is, I'm not very skilled, but I used to manage to do surface with at least 16 fear, but since they nerfed Hestia's sprint, which was my way to go to defeat Charybdis and Eris, I just can't seem to get past them. Eris damn shotgun is so fast I can't bring myself to dodge properly, and her constantly flying over the map is really annoying and stales my damage. I can usually defeat Charybdis, but not without losing way too much HP...
Do you guys have any tips? It's getting frustrating 😦

[raven ivy]

It's difficult to give tips without knowing what your gameplay looks like but as general advice for the shotgun attack either keeping near one of the two pillars to stay behind cover or dashing through Eris as she can't turn 180° very quickly are I think are the two safest options

[stuck turret]

Always try to stay behind her^

It helps with all of her attacks overall

[raven ivy]

If you'd rather also have the safety net of sprinting through her you can use the achilles card
and if Eris's repositioning is giving you trouble it might be mitigated by weapon choice, I find it much more of a challenge to use slower stuff like the axe on surface, I think that namely skulls are a really good counter to Eris because you can hit her from pretty much anywhere on the map, and even faster when up close (Though obv any weapon can cook, playing to its strengths and weaknesses)

[civic ocean]

also hide behind the pillars

[raven ivy]

Charybdis too is pretty painful on the axe unless you've got a damn good build going, mobility is really nice because it's a bit about playing it safe and dashing away then trying to notice which attack the limbs are about to do so you can re-approach with the right timing (and then for the phase transition million pellets attack you can lure everything to one side, so that you can navigate back down and around with a little less bombardment)

[silent ledge]

What is the triad bladed rotation to get a double proc? Omega attack, Omega cast, special, attack (proc), attack hits again, special returns, omega cast explodes (proc)?

[civic ocean]

Really digging Nergal rn just going for attack builds

[analog ether]

Idle thought that would be difficult to check:

Total Eclipse has a purple upgrade that causes it to apply your omega cast after firing. If I'm not mistaken, this also applies omega cast boons (prom flare, blade rift, geyser, ect.)

Would it also apply glorious disaster?

[wise knot]

Supay is still ridiculously OP.

Slap Poseidon's rush boon on it, hera on special, Apollo's duo as a bonus, then sprint and watch everything in a room (including boss) melt like butter.

[hot tendon]

on Boated vid of charon i saw you can special - into dash and Ospecial charge at same time? do i get this correctly?

[hot tendon]

I did a run with full Zeus and his legendary, everything melted also

I was still on lvl 0 or 1 of aspect too

[vernal scaffold]

@solemn loom So you're looking for full run videos of 32+ heat clears? Happy to contribute if getting videos off steamdeck isn't too much trouble.

[random crane]

Does Omega cast increase the effect of cast boon?

Is blitz and chain lightning same as lightning effect?

[willow phoenix]

They're both lightning effect, all of zeus lightning is lightning effect

O cast doesn't increase the damage of cast boon

[random crane]

Thanks

[stable barn]

special->dash-attack->keep holding attack for omega attack

rinse and repeat, u don't really have much time for omega cast

[wind wave]

what are the current stronger options outside of medea skulls for speedrunning? since last time i played, from what i've read, pan poseidon got gutted

and regarding medea skulls, top runs seem to have insanely fast movement, and i can only get about half that by alternating dash and special; what's going on there?

[tall notch]

Speedrunners just have the zoomies

[wind wave]

that.. doesn't answer anything..

[past salmon]

special has a shorter cooldown than dash, you should always be specialing first and at some point in movement you special twice in a row rather than fully alternating

[wind wave]

ah!

thank you!

[past salmon]

also interestingly you can special sooner out of transitions than dash
why?
I have no goddamn clue

[real rune]

Would someone be kind enough to explain to me how Supay works, and what are some good boons to go for ?

[wise knot]

your attack and special are automatic. It allows you to focus on sprinting and dashing to dodge enemies attack

It boosts rush boon damage by 50% at max level - Poseidon, Hestia, Ares boons are the best for this slot imo

Attack slot can be anything. Omega attack can be very good with rapid attack boons

Specials slot is now good with % damage

[uneven palm]

Omega attacks fire more attacks for a while. Omega specials are more doohickeys around you. Honestly any combo of Hera/Ares/Poseidon/Hestia/Zeus probably is gonna be fine

[real rune]

So, poseidon dash, zeus attack, aphro special, maybe demeter cast ?

Or maybe hestia dash for freezer burn ?

[uneven palm]

Hestia dash isn't Scorch

[real rune]

Oh, it's just plain damage

Only the omega attack is automatic, right ? And of course, the orbiting normal special

[solemn loom]

That be great. Any 32+ clears are appreciated.

[glass bone]

I’ve done this for other games, and the advice I’ll say is you’ll want to go into desktop mode and login to say, YouTube, and upload the video on Steam Deck. The other way I have done it is by uploading the video to Discord, but the length of most 32+ runs makes the file too big, even for Discord Nitro.

[wintry grove]

Unrivaled Chronos with Nergal is hard to bonk. Made it to the last phase at least.

[tall notch]

I've got tons of 50+ fears (which is technically above 32) if you'd find that helpful

[solemn loom]

The compiled are only P9 & 10. Too much if backtract to previous patches.

[real rune]

Do i really have to stop/press something else if i want to reactivate poseidon's dash waves ?

I have auto-sprint on

I can get ares rush to activate everytime i do a dash while sprinting, but not poseidon

[tall notch]

https://youtu.be/X8EbzKUJ6bk
Got this from patch 9

[solemn loom]

Just like I thought, I gotcha ya already. lul

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1272385014150991875/1392144794041585804/Screenshot_2025-07-08_at_10.06.12_AM.png?ex=686e775f&is=686d25df&hm=8b249b84f0659611bf64ec77b28eefb21b528032320245e55d21051cc52a9ed9&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1431&height=792

[tall notch]

Wait is it still the highest coat clear? Surprised no one did a 62 yet

[real rune]

Sauce ?

[solemn loom]

I didn't start from the beginning of old patches, so it will be tedious adding previous given the data I extract from each gameplay.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1272385014150991875/1392145180043509872/Screenshot_2025-07-08_at_10.07.46_AM.png?ex=686e77bb&is=686d263b&hm=0bd539b6b89bfa4c5cc94e28acc2de1b8c8c4af506eed646811724b68a1bfe33&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1212&height=810

[tall notch]

That's a very pretty website btw! @solemn loom

[solemn loom]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/

[real rune]

Anyone ?

[willow phoenix]

You need to stop sprinting and dash again in order to retrigger breaker rush, dunno how it works with auto sprint tbh

Without auto sprint you can just dash again

[real rune]

Yeah, auto-sprint sucks with supay

I gotta sprint manually

[cerulean panther]

Success Rate should not spawn if the only % chance boons I have are Dodge boons, yeah?

[real rune]

Waiiiiiit a minute !

Hidden helix hammer turns off my normal special on Supay ???

[willow phoenix]

It shouldn't, but you can check what boons you have that work with it on the book of shadows

On hermes page

[cerulean panther]

Tidal Ring.

[willow phoenix]

No they just don't appear anymore if there's no enemy around

[willow phoenix]

Oh for froth I guess

[real rune]

Oh, i was ready to never touch this aspect ever again 😆

[timber pawn]

Oh I didn't even know this lol

[willow phoenix]

Yeah it's a bit weird lol, but nothing game breaking

[dim kelp]

Can someone explain to me what the deal is with Reckless Abandon being offered at Heroic? I saw it a couple of times in a row on weapons where I definitely didn’t want it, and then when I did a run with the express intention of using it, of course it was only offered at common.

Is the Heroic offer like a limited-time thing to try to encourage me to take the boon for the first time? Or, does it have its own special rarity table where it can be offered at Heroic with some low probability?

[glass cloak]

I guess this is the right place to put this:

I'm missing the Chaos prophecy because I haven't been offered "Chant"

Is it tied to a certain weapon or arcana card or something?

[cerulean panther]

You need Aether, the element that Duo Boons carry, to get Chant to spawn.

[glass cloak]

So I need a duo before I go to Chaos? Any advice on that?

[cerulean panther]

Almost certainly.

[willow phoenix]

Chant is Chaos' infusion boon, I think you need like 1 at least? You can check it on the book of shadows

[cerulean panther]

You could get lucky with the Transcendant Embryo giving you Aether for free.

[willow phoenix]

Should be pretty doable to get a duo before fields then get a chaos gate to spawn with the well on fields or Tart, especially with rerolls

Or you could reroll Ephyra until you get a duo then pray for a chaos gate in Olympus

[glass cloak]

Wait chaos gates can spawn in Tartarus?

[cerulean panther]

You can get the item that forces a spawn in the transition room before Tartarus.

[willow phoenix]

With the well of charon item yes

[glass cloak]

Ah OK

[willow phoenix]

Use the Queen Arcana card to make it easier to get duos

[glass cloak]

Yeah now I know the trigger it shouldn't take forever to make it happen

[civic ocean]

Oh I have to start recording my runs I would have made this list!

Are you doing a seperate list for rivals 4 and not

[solemn loom]

That is a compressed PB list. Not planning to make R4 list, I don't think there's enough audience for that.

[safe kettle]

just played a judgement run and yeah this is just a meme

you're just so weak zone 1 and 2

even if you can use athena trinket early

[civic ocean]

What stuff did you take along with judgement

[safe kettle]

flat hp, the debuff damage and the 3 free guardian hits

[civic ocean]

Oh yeah you definitely gonna feel weak then

[pure grove]

I usually swap out the guardian hits for huntress

[safe kettle]

i just dont think i can beat poly without the 3 free hits

when i hit the fight with like 60 hp

[pure grove]

What. No Frinos or double hearts?

[brave dove]

wait no strength or death?

[safe kettle]

i didnt take death so i could use athena trinket

and like if you're gonna go judgement might as well gamble you hit death at some point

[brave dove]

strength + lovers + night is what I've always looked at for judgement runs

gives you divinity as well

[safe kettle]

i dont think i'm gonna play more judgement stuff

[civic ocean]

I haven’t done judgement before but I would imagine that Strength + another damage % like furies/night/huntress woupd be it

[safe kettle]

but i really wanna make space for the double debuff

in my normal setup, and i could drop unseen but i also need to put in something else to get the corner card

[tall notch]

I'll need to get more comfortable at 58f before i even think about judgement

[safe kettle]

i dont wanna drop unseen but i'm not dropping boatman

for like 4 reasons

[pure grove]

Judgement on 0F is doable. Higher fear levels is legitimate pain

[civic ocean]

What fear are we talmbouy

[safe kettle]

i won on 10f with judgement and it was ok

like the first 2 zones were spooky

[pure grove]

At least there’s 3 free fear from the grasp vow

[civic ocean]

Like Coldshade I am also mostly fascinated by climbing higher fear and getting more comfortable with the Rivals fights

[real rune]

I only played judgement once to get the rewards from the "clear with all arcana cards" fated list

[real rune]

Btw, just tried anubis for the first time. Was the first run i got my ass kicked in a while.

Having to stay stationary to place the field + omega cone is dangerous. And the special pulling enemies in can be bad for you sometimes.

Too bad, because i love how the weapon looks. Reminds me of Yu-Gi-Oh's millenium items.

[main beacon]

usually i try to buff the attack to be self sufficient, like with hestia you can drop it and run away knowing its still doing damage

[paper moon]

How does Cardio Gain (Hestias Magick restoration boon) work with the new Umbral Flames hidden aspect? I don't understand on which strikes I get Magick, since there is no attack or special with this aspect

[pure grove]

There is an attack that launches a few fireballs out every couple of seconds. The special is the orbiting ball

[abstract bay]

the auto fire is considered attack and special

[paper moon]

ohh ok thanks. I was confused because it's not specifically stated as such.

[real rune]

I did go for hestia on the attack. Damage wasn't the issue, it's having to stay stationary for a long time.

Maybe i gotta git gud at using the special to pull enemies into the field after casting it safely.

[main beacon]

oh i dont even do that much man, try apollo special and omega attack with that for damage

[pure grove]

Y’all are sleeping on Blitz and chain lightning.

[real rune]

Zeus attack, poseidon special ?

[pure grove]

Aphro on special is also a funny but very viable option

[real rune]

Or zeus on both ?

[pure grove]

Usually I put cast on poseidon and cast where I want to put down my attack

[willow phoenix]

Hestia on attack is probably the most stable dps for attack, then just use O special to pull things to it. The pull on Anubis O special is very big and can pull enemies from across the room to you

[safe kettle]

that's only if you go to 0 grasp though right?

and it seems so sketchy to play zone 1 with nothing

[south hull]

Several guides seem to suggest taking a god keepsake first, but wouldn't it be useful to see what gods the game gives you first, then take a particular keepsake to fill in something you really want?

[glass bone]

It’s a matter of consistency. On the one side of the use of god keepsake first, if you get a god that you didn’t want, that first room’s god is now permanently added to your pool. On the other side, there’s the fact that a lot of weapons want a specific god’s boons/upgrades immediately (most noteworthy imo are Charon Axe with Apollo for Lucid Gain, and Selene Coat for the Godsent).

[real rune]

I see. I was using the regular special

[glass bone]

That’s not to say you always have to take a god keepsake as a start every time, but for many circumstances, the option of guaranteeing it, along with the rarify is a big deal.

[willow phoenix]

yeah Anubis O special is very strong and focusing purely on it can be a playstyle on its own too lol. Put like Apollo. Hera, or Aphro on special then just spam that O special, hopefully with the Dual Moonshot hammer and Apollo Legendary

[uneven palm]

Also don’t stand still with Anubis. Drop a zone, drop a cast, special something in, dash away, special again. Dash around the perimeter of the damage zone

[ebon grove]

🧍‍♂️

[soft cloud]

sa guys, I am having a hard time defeating Sila. Do you have any suggestions? (I'm not a so beginner, I opened Black Coat)

[glass bone]

Are you referring to base or rival form?

[soft cloud]

umm ıdk

ı dont kill cronos yet

[glass bone]

Ah, so the former.

Focusing on one band member at a time is a good start (though if you can get safe hits elsewhere, that too is good). Ideally Roxy can die first, since she has fieldwide AoE. Then you can kill the other two from a bit further distance if needed.

[stuck turret]

I'd recommend focusing the drummer first
they have big aoe circle attacks that are tedious to deal with
Then the guitarist, which usually stuns with the attacks, and then scylla is last because she won't open up til you kill the other two, thats my personal recommendation thou LOL
try to learn attack patterns as well, like scyllas scream attack thing

[analog ether]

Oh, I wonder when they changed this. If you have the fan beam and auto-fire upgrades on Lunar Ray, and there's only one enemy on the map, the three beams will actually converge onto that target.

[soft cloud]

thanks guys

[stable ether]

Why does Hermes Tall Order boon suck so badly? You need 8 of all elements to deal 25% infused damage

I get like 3 to above +8 elements, but then I have like water missing, only at 1 or 2

[glass bone]

Oh, and one more thing. Black Coat isn’t a terrible weapon, but its strongest style is spamming specials with a mix of attacks, so perhaps a better weapon to practice the boss fight with would be Skull (because you can spam fire the skulls at close range against the drummer), Staff (because it has a nice blend of good melee and range attacks), or Daggers (good melee but doesn’t have the slow properties of axe attacks).

[soft cloud]

ty

[stuck turret]

^
also something to note is that scylla can't be backstabbed like the other two due to her shell

[willow phoenix]

That has always been the case afaik? At least as far back as Olympus update from what I remember of using it

I used to spam Lunar Ray a lot on Prometheus lol

[stuck turret]

valid lol

[timber pawn]

It's 8 of any one element, to clarify

[civic ocean]

TLDR is this game is less Roguelike-esque than games like Spire in that a lot of the factors in it can be much more tightly controlled

You can absolutely start no god keepsake if you find it fun, though - a lot of keepsakes are like pretty good earlygame like Lion Fang or Onion

[pseudo pond]

Quick question for ares wound, so, the wound works like +50 damage from every damage source within 3s? Or +50 damage once every 3s?

[civic ocean]

The initial hit where the red numbers pop out has extra power, all hits have the % damage increase IIRC

[pseudo pond]

I see, so the +50 only applies to initial hits

[civic ocean]

Wounds despite the name does not increase damage from other sources

[pseudo pond]

Any weapons that work’s particularly well with ares?

[civic ocean]

Grievous Blow however WILL apply to any damage source

[rocky bramble]

what weapon is the best

[pseudo pond]

Surpay probably atm

[civic ocean]

So Ares is pretty good on basically any weapon, mostly because of Greivous Blow and Mutual Destruction being really valuable pieces of the damage calculation

But in almost every instance you would rather Ares not be the core damaging boon, like say for example I am playing Axe I would rather have my attacks be Aph or Hera and my special be Ares so I can quickly activate Wounds to turn on Grievous Blow for multiplicative damage

[pseudo pond]

I see, good to know, will try it out

Additional question, is scorch a fixed 100 dot/s, or the higher you build it, the harder it ticks every second?

[civic ocean]

Scorch always ticks 6 times per second

[pseudo pond]

Ah, must be mistaken it for something else

[civic ocean]

It reduces the meter by 100 scorch every second but that scorch IIRC is affected by damage multipliers

[pseudo pond]

Oh?

[civic ocean]

Except crit and air quality?

[willow phoenix]

The amount of scorch on target won't change how fast it ticks

But Pyro Technique increases how much damage is dealt per scorch tick and that fastens the amount of scorch consumed per second

[civic ocean]

Yes and that is only true for PT if I recall right

Like for example Origination makes 100 scorch deal 150 damage

[willow phoenix]

Then that damage gets amplified by global damage modifier like Origination

[tall notch]

What's good everyone 😄

[civic ocean]

Which kind of begs the question as to why PT increases the scorch lost and not just buff the damage :/ Pyro Technique my behated

[pseudo pond]

I see, so, under normal circumstances, without global % damage bonus, or pyro technique, it’s a fixed 100 dmg dot

[civic ocean]

Yeah if you had no buffs to damage at all it would be 100 dps

[willow phoenix]

Yes unless you run out of scorch lol

[pseudo pond]

Hmm, I don’t particularly feel scorch is that hard to maintain, so why is nyx paired with hestia special so strong? Or at least according to people here

[willow phoenix]

It's not that much commitment but a lot of damage, like a single nyx special can stack tons of scorch

[brazen ore]

and bc nightspawn breaks ur rockets in half, its a very efficient scorch applicator

[pseudo pond]

I see, anything good pair with nyx scorch build?

[willow phoenix]

Like for pure dps there's probably a better way though, like maybe poseidon special? But poseidon did get nerfed so maybe the cd kinda killed that lol

[pseudo pond]

I see, hmm, need to keep trying then

[civic ocean]

Generally speaking, aspects that use a lot of quick attacks (think like the omega special from the blades all on one target from Pan) do well with Scorch because with the new cap and Pyro Technique actually maintaining Scorch on your target can be tough while trying not to die unless you have the Aph duo

[brazen ore]

Poseidon cooldown is only on specific attacks/weapons, and i dont believe nyx coat is one of them

[willow phoenix]

Oh interesting, so maybe it's still good. I did try it recently and the dps was very good

[pseudo pond]

Oh, right, aphro forever scorch

Huh, haven’t tried it since forever

[civic ocean]

On that note I am finding Aspect of Pan in particular to be pretty underwhelming

[pseudo pond]

I am probably still gonna use nyx or Anubis for scorch

[willow phoenix]

https://youtu.be/Db-WiIR6vns?si=EJwtARrbRm2fo4Gl
Video for anyone interested

[pseudo pond]

Or surpay

[civic ocean]

Supay seems quite strong just with Hestia’s dash

[pseudo pond]

Sigh, kinda wish they didn’t change surpay, it was such a comfy weapon

[civic ocean]

I only played the post nerf supay and first tried 39f underworld rivals 4 frenzy 2 and I didn’t even understand what was happening that weapon was STRONG lol

[willow phoenix]

If you're going all in Hestia Anubis would be my choice. Anubis pretty much likes most of Hestia's kit. Like Controlled Burn is crazy good with it too

[civic ocean]

Also like Mel Coat of course

[pseudo pond]

Yeah, it is, I kinda just miss how smooth it used to be, and I felt like hidden aspect should be op

[civic ocean]

I feel like after the changes to Flames Supay kind of is OP compared to the rest, Mel Flames feel quite weak for example

But I think I am just not playing them that well yet

Still trying to do the old builds with huge mana costs, but much less consistent without mortal gain and the Rivals bosses are way harder to avoid while channeldashing

[willow phoenix]

Mel Flames still kinda feels like lesser Moros ngl lol

[civic ocean]

I like mel because you could play at distance but not anymore so thats probably fair

[real rune]

Setting one zone was enough go get me destroyed. I must get better at finding opening for it. It takes quite some time to do zone + o.attack.

[willow phoenix]

You don't really need the O attack most of the time tbh. And the dash attack is much faster than just normal attack so you should use it

Use O attack when you have a bigger opening for set ups

[pseudo pond]

Yeah, another part I am not a huge fan of, felt like rival 3 or 4 is a bit too much bullet hell for some weapon design, or the whole omega skill concept

[willow phoenix]

You can also dash during channeling O attack so that helps

[real rune]

I'm never beating the "Yu-Gi-Oh players can't read" allegations 😂

[civic ocean]

Idk I really like learning them so far. Got a few 39f Chronos kills with Nergal and Circe and Persephone.

Surface right now is still just the Die to Prometheus Show but we’re learning, we’re evolving

[willow phoenix]

I'm not doing Rivals with frenzy 2, but so far they've all been pretty manageable. Like most of my aspect choices are omega heavy and it's fine

[real rune]

I usually go Hestia special (i also take the gain, pyro technique and flash fry for aoe), demeter cast the crowd control (and eventually freezer burn), zeus for static shock and the other stuff that buffs it (legendary and hail storm if i get lucky).

That leaves you with two free god slots. Apollo can give you the dash, supernova for bigger demeter cast, perfect image for damage. Heph's armor for survivability.

This is my usual setup. And thanks again to @tall notch for converting me to this amazing aspect.

[civic ocean]

Yeah Idk I have only ever fought them on friendship 2

[pseudo pond]

It’s definitely doable, but with how this game handles visual effects, felt like it’s just hectic to keep track enemy skills, especially rival typhon

The whole screen is bombarded with projectiles and chronos aoe

[civic ocean]

I am also feeling like the game is a bit cluttered atm I actually tend to have better results with the sound off for instance

But I think its more of a learning to filter them

[pseudo pond]

Yeah, they need to tune a lot of stuff before 1.0 launch

[civic ocean]

I think I need to tune me not the other way around idk

[thin cloud]

Anyone got any good arcana builds? I have a fates based build, a judgement build, but idk what to do for my next one

[glass bone]

For a generalist build… Fates usually is recommended. Pick either Strength or Death (both have good use cases). Gain Centaur in some form. Try to aim for Divinity + Queen if you can (it’s not a deal breaker if you can’t).

If you prefer Death, then a good build would be; Sorceress, Wayward Son, Furies, Persistence, Death, Origination, Lovers, Enchantress, Boatman, Champions (which overall gives Centaur, Queen, Fates, and Divinity).

[glass bone]

If you prefer Strength but want some safety, replace Death with Strength (does remove Divinity from this loadout, but Strength loves to have healing, so it’s a trade off).

[thin cloud]

So I'm trying to do an air quality build, with my god pool being Zeus, Demeter, Ares and ??? I dont know who else to include

Apollo?

[glass bone]

The best I could think of would either be Apollo for Prominance Flare and the Extra Attack if you are basing it off of attack, or Hephaestus because he has a lot of supporting boons (not the primaries, but the armor is great for anything).

[thin cloud]

I just really need more air

[brazen ore]

aphro would be good then. could also get wispy wiles which is decent

a lot of her support stuff has air

though yeah apollo or aphro. heph doesnt have air

[civic ocean]

Aphrodite - both Passion Rush and Rapture Ring are buffed by AQ and provide Air, and Weak is a good way to keep you alive. Aphrodite is a key combo god with AQ builds I think

Also keep an eye out for ways to increase the appearance of Artemis, Hermes, and Chaos.

And don't forget to take Frinos and talk to every shade, they give one air eventually

[thin cloud]

Do I HAVE to take frinos?

I prefer Raki usually for extra crit chance

[civic ocean]

No, but Frinos increases the frequency of the air-giving shades, and Crit doesn't stack with Air Quality.

Air Quality is applied at the END of damage calculation.

[abstract bay]

you only need 5 air for air quality there’s no real need to be focusing that hard on it

[brazen ore]

5 is a lot if your only god that gives air is zeus

[abstract bay]

right but i wouldn’t take frinos just for a slightly better chance at 1 more air

[brazen ore]

Oh, yeah, I woudn't take frinos necessarily for that. i thought you were saying about picking a fourth god

[civic ocean]

I do think Frinos is a really good pick for AQ builds just for the max HP though, since AQ is sorta your damage the defensive value is neat

The tricky thing with AQ is that you want to go pretty hard into Demeter and so it’s definitely tricky to get 5 air and the infusion with Onion on

Especially because I don’t think AQ does very well with Artificer at all

[brazen ore]

yeah i feel like aq is probably not very viable at super high fear

[magic moss]

aq is fine super high fear

[civic ocean]

Yeah its quite a spike on gales and a lot of boons

You probably don't even really need to go dedicated for it like if you have Aph/Apo/Zeus you probably get it up by accident

[tall notch]

air quality and scorch used to work together really well, I wonder if that's still a good build @civic ocean

[civic ocean]

Oh now we're a comedian huh

[brazen ore]

oh bet, i would not have thought you would have got enough boons for it

[tall notch]

better a comedian than a WABSer

[civic ocean]

It got patched out 😦

[brazen ore]

No, i mean to mininet sorry lol. i know aq/scorch doesnt work anymore

[civic ocean]

It did go insano mode when I got it prepatch though

[brazen ore]

but i was always team pyro technique anyway lol

[civic ocean]

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/1233146305308528650/1392014375174406325 this is a decent example ig of like "I have Zeus and Aph and Arctics on cast so I took AQ"

Like that was 39 but I think it could have won at 50

Most of my builds are capped by me being complete and total booty at Rivals Sirens/Poly/Prom/Chronos/Typhon atm

[tall notch]

50? maybe without rivals

like nergal is not killing high fear hecate straight up

[civic ocean]

We'll find out!

[brazen ore]

maybe i've just had a string of horrendous oceanus runs where it was hard for me to get boons and couldnt imagine doing those + onion/denial

[civic ocean]

Onion is the enemy of AQ for sure

[tall notch]

you get boons in oceanus?

[cerulean panther]

Oceanus gets all the boons that should be in Thessaly, thus appearing as a properly boon-filled region.

[brazen ore]

i pay for them and beg em from narcissus usually lol

[tall notch]

i pretty frequently go through all of oceanus without picking up a room reward boon

[brazen ore]

yeah, me too

thats why i was curious about its viability at high heat, but i also have not played with onion and denial enough to know how much it really impacts, i'm still skill issuing on frenzy2 time3 rivals3

[civic ocean]

Is it correct to kill sirens like you did with that 58 clear I keep trying to focus the drummer getting shot with the water guns and then taking 200 damage before regaining control of my character

[tall notch]

hold on let me glance at what i did there

Oh is that just me hugging the wall and getting the tentacles first? its the safest strat but speedrunners like @past salmon would probably cringe at it

[civic ocean]

I am still trying to figure out what I am meant to do, that fight is probably my worst performance vs the floor level in the game other than Poly atm I am SO BAD at that fight

[tall notch]

i think you like hugging the corners, so try doing that and killing tentacles first. youre much safer in that sort of position

[civic ocean]

I have always been a trader

And I like killing the drummer in the non rivals fight so I just need to unlearn that

[tall notch]

so idk trade your time for a safe kill

[reef agate]

Only nightmare unlocked aspect i have leveled is Medea lvl 5, which is another beginner friendly one to go for? (preferably another weapon so can also go towards unlocking hidden ones)

[tall notch]

Nyx Coat

[civic ocean]

Maybe I'll just get really good at clicking Nergals basic attack and just kill them all

You can dash in the middle of the combo its broken!

[tall notch]

yeah but what if youre fighting something fast
and theres wards
and the timer

[civic ocean]

I am working on that part as I go! I think its doable but v hard - I wonder if the way is to healstack idk yet, will need practice

[reef agate]

I have 1 flux and never even seen any darkness, cant even unlock its base yet

[civic ocean]

I can see on Autumns site I don't think people have really done Rivals 4 Chronos with Nergal above 32 yet? I see a bunch of 50s but surface or no chronos

Has anyone else noticed Chronos canceling his first instakill on R4 btw?

I have fought him a couple times now and he keeps not doing the first one and attacking a couple times before doing the other two

[polar ravine]

any hints on avoiding typhons shot that splits into 3 shots? cause it deals alot of damage and i find it difficult to dodge

it didnt help that he kept using it every other attack

[civic ocean]

IIRC what I used to do was run towards it and try to dash through it towards Typhon's face

[tall notch]

i dont think anyone has killed a rivals boss in high fear with nergal yet 😭

[civic ocean]

There's a 62 surface clear from China I think

from yesterday

they go omegas different strat than me

[brazen ore]

i think that guy is trying to clear 62 with all the hidden aspects

[civic ocean]

V similar strat to what I am doing on nergal just using Psychic Whirlwind instead of the attack combo

seems really good

He's also like insanely good

[brazen ore]

Oh yeah he's amazing

I wish I could play videos at slower speed on bilibili so I can see what he's doing half of the time lol

[civic ocean]

Wish I knew the arcana, he was running strength

[past salmon]

Omega attack is pretty great on Nergal
And yeah, Psychic is BiS by a lot

[civic ocean]

really enjoying the attack combo rn feels pretty fun to dash mid-hit. Needs some tweaking but is pretty cool

[uneven palm]

@civic ocean we were talking Rivals Scylla last night in the speedcord hereabouts #1051942150025269309 message

[uneven palm]

Sorry meant to respond to this one 🙂 👆

[civic ocean]

Yeah I was sorta putting that together over the course of some runs, thanks - I like the idea of baiting Scylla and Jetty. I feel like currently as I'm climbing I never have timer problems except vs Hecate so prob good idea to use some time vs sirens

[uneven palm]

This is my problem is I'm always rushing even when I enter their chamber with 5m

[willow phoenix]

On rivals Typhon ||child|| phase, he always does the version that explodes near him so dodging to him will dodge that, but don't stay too close to him at the beginning

Normally though there's 2 versions of it, the other version is the long range one that he shoots, it has some homing properties and will try to aim at you directly but usually just lands at the lower half of the arena. Usually dodging towards him dodge this too tbh lol or you can run around. Rivals Typhon always starts his final final phase with this, so beware of that

[polar ravine]

yeah the first time i made it to the child phase he used that on me and killed me

[civic ocean]

Corniest final phase of a boss in a game ill say it

[brazen ore]

i love the art for almost everything but i dont love the art for child mel so much. something about it hits uncanny valley for me

[half kindle]

Is there a way to get daedalus upgrades more often on a run?

[empty musk]

Besides shops, the reforge sold at the end shop, location rerolls, Icarus keepsake in region 3/4 and making sure you always claim a daedalus hammer as your last reward in fields in case Echo offers . . . not really. You'll usually end up with 2-3 but can get as high as 6 w luck

[lean lance]

With luck and very careful planning. It will not happen accidentally

[mental sluice]

So apparently Nightbloom on the Jellyfish can result in being basically permanently inked 💀

[civic ocean]

Dunno if you can still do this, but it used to work:

If you reach The Mourning Fields and enter a room with Daedalus Hammer showing on it, you used to be able to use Artificer on Minor Finds and turn them into extra Daedalus Hammers.

As long as you don't set your hammers obtained flag to 2, you could keep doing it and get up to, if you were lucky enough, 4 hammers in that room alone.

[spiral wadi]

if your most recent major reward is a hammer you can also hope for echo to drop an extra hammer

[half kindle]

Someone else thinks that Shiva's aspect is kinda underwhelming comparedto the other hidden aspects?

I guess I don't know how to use its special but it doesnt feel very powerful

[cerulean panther]

It's pretty widely considered the weakest Aspect in the game right now.

[half kindle]

Do you think they may change it for 1.0?

[cerulean panther]

Yes.

[half kindle]

noice :DD

[willow phoenix]

It's not that bad, like the destruction stack gimmick is kinda useless outside of Counter Supreme but the base movekit is already very good

I'd rate it stronger than Mel Coat, Mel Flames, and Eos at least, even without making use of the Destruction stack

Try to not focus on stacking the O special buff and just play with the O attack and attack. The O attack on Shiva is miles better than normal cost O attack.

With Apollo on attack, your O attack can cover whole aread easily and clear rooms fast. For tankier enemies, you can use O Special once then O Attack to use the Night Arcana. It's a pretty strong aspect on its own with an albeit mostly pointless aspect lvl scaling

https://youtu.be/mNRh5mr0_-8?si=MOO5GicYitlRXmgj
My clip vs Rivals Chronos using it

At the very least I like it better than Hel and Nergal for hidden aspects lol, it's more satisfying to use

They just need to change how Shiva scales tbh, changing the scaling to damage per destruction and capping it to like max 3 stack would be better imo

6 stack is never going to be used outside of Counter Supreme

[hot tendon]

last phase typhon is just ridiculous, i have no idea what patterns of those eyes he drop and explode are

[olive tusk]

nergal dashtrike ares build is very reliable

all the ares atk adjacent boons, plus double strike from apollo, plus static shock from zeus and a pivot to heinous affront if you're really lucky

also, heph legendary is great, you only need two dash strikes with daedulus hammer to go back to frenzy

[haughty chasm]

which duo boon/boons are the best for damage reduction and which are best for chained damage and increased close up damage?

[willow phoenix]

The highest damage reduction you can reach in the game is probably

• Strength
• Brave Face
• Tough Gain
• Weak
• Sweet Surrender
• Night Bloom sublime for 20% dmg reduction
• Knuckle Bones
• As many Python Scales as you can get

Other boons that can reduce damage on certain conditions:

• Frosty Veneer
• Paid Dues

You can also combine all these damage reductions with the heal from Warm Breeze for maximum survivability

[past salmon]

Paid dues and simply be rich enough

[willow phoenix]

Does Paid Dues count damage before or after DR?

Wiki says before Brave Face but after Strength and Tough Gain, interesting

[olive tusk]

i remember haelian tried to get a tough gain brave face type build working but it didnt work out

[willow phoenix]

It got nerfed a few times already, but it's still a lot of damage reduced

I had a run where Rivals Chronos was only hitting for 4 damage per swipe

[past salmon]

I never trust the wiki

[willow phoenix]

Honestly same lol

[tall notch]

I do not even know the wiki's address

[forest oxide]

What attack and specials do you guys use for the most busted Nyx build? I've been seeing scorch for dash

[tall notch]

Click Hestia special
Just pick good boons from there

[brave dove]

don't pick bad boons either

[willow phoenix]

How about medium boons

[tall notch]

that's ok if you already have your most important stuff

[stuck token]

Does Toula the cat familiar do anything special when fighting the rat miniboss?

[sage flame]

no, mel has some lines about it tho

[stuck token]

Is Athena keepsake broken? Doesn't seem to spawn her for me anymore

[tall notch]

did you start using death defiances instead of strength?

[stuck token]

I did

[tall notch]

athena can only spawn if you don't have dds, so either play strength or die 3 times before you want to use her

[stuck token]

Ah, thank you. Is that intentional?

[tall notch]

Yes, read what the keepsake says it does.

[stuck token]

thanks!

[tall notch]

You're welcome, SaladProblems!

[half kindle]

Dude, what's with these odds? I'm on Oceanus and I have only 4 boons but the nectar has appeared 8 times already...

[brazen ore]

oceanus doesnt like to give boons

[safe kettle]

redid my setup to fit in origination
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/217019787727863810/1392526385477582980/image.png?ex=686fdac2&is=686e8942&hm=4664bb203d1a5ef825cf0c33557db4cdb386c94e56d0e42e0052fd483543a84b&

moon is nonnegotiable as i'm a big hex enjoyer

@willow phoenix i feel like hel aspect in general just feels janky, the omega attack is strong but takes way too long and why go for that when you are using so much magick for omega specials for the gimmick

[willow phoenix]

the O attack is never really usable when dashing just cancels it lol

[safe kettle]

like how am i supposed to stand still for that long in any zone 3 or 4

[willow phoenix]

it's a bit weird since the O special deals tons of damage so you're like incentivized to keep using it so you don't want a longer Valkyrie buff but if you build for the attack spam then you do want the Valkyrie buff to last longer

[sage flame]

based, also cause I feel like I never see auto hex charge nodes in path of stars any more

[safe kettle]

oh man i got a run with morrigan aspect where i got the "final strike +300% damage and bigger" hammer upgraded and that did so much absurd damage

[cerulean panther]

Oh yeah. Final Slice is probably strongest on Morrigan.

[safe kettle]

upgrade put it to +400% damage and morrigan "final strikes" every 2 hits

[cerulean panther]

You only have a two-hit combo.

[safe kettle]

my attack did more than double anything else without an attack buff boon, i just had scorch on it

this build could be insane with aphro attack, or just go for the gigantic one via apollo

[cerulean panther]

The larger radius makes Hera extra mean.

[safe kettle]

i guess but it already onetaps everything

except the really tanky enemies

[brave dove]

final slice is morrigan's strongest hammer

sweeping ambush is second imo but other people argue for wicked onslaught

[tall notch]

are any of them special hammers noteworthy on morrigan?

[willow phoenix]

Hidden Knives is kinda funny if you're doing a lot of O special, since you get + 2 O special

[uneven palm]

I don’t like the O special on Morrigan tho it locks you out of doing regular specials while it’s happening

[brave dove]

you can do a cool double blood triad thingy with ospec

[willow phoenix]

Sinister Pinion makes chaining triad combos easier if you end your combo with special since it makes the special ticks twice

[brave dove]

this isn't precisely how it works, it's an actual cooldown that ends early if you catch the special

[willow phoenix]

I like using O special if the only triad remaining is Omega, since that clears the next triad Omega requirement too

and the O special deals decent damage since it ticks a lot, especially if you have something like Chain Lightning, or even Arc Flash

[uneven palm]

Interesting, I hadn’t caught that (literally or figuratively)

[brave dove]

if you do the buzzsaw sprint thing you notice

[olive tusk]

what are some medium boons

shameless attitude

[cerulean panther]

Extra Dose.

[lilac arrow]

Charon axe is crazy good🙏
I just killed surface run boss in 1:36 ✌️

[marsh flax]

hey dose anyone have the google sheetsfor high heat builds im tryng to unlock all the vow of rivals but i think im not optimised

[brave dove]

that's not really a thing yet afaik? this is early access but you can check out high fear clear builds here: https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/

[marsh flax]

alr thanks

[safe kettle]

yeah it seems pretty solid to apply a lot of omega procs for the knife in an aoe

[hot tendon]

what do you recommend for melinoe staff? i just had 12f run but i died due to doing too low dps and ran out of time on prometheus xD

i used hestia on special and i had useless hammers, tried getting poseidon duo but didnt get it in the end

[willow phoenix]

The big power on special means something like Aphro would do a lot of damage with it rather than hestia

If you can get the hammer for dual moonshot it would be even more damage from special

I like just doing dash attack - attack - special loop with mel staff, to make the most use of the special damage

If you have enough attack speed you can also probably just spam the special more

[hot tendon]

Ah i meant to write hera lol

[dim kelp]

What is the use case for the skull’s Fetching Array hammer? The one that makes your skulls fly back to you “automatically and 100% faster”

Before specials collected your ammo, it made sense to me, but now I don’t see how it helps

[safe kettle]

it just lets you perma attackspam

you just become a short range aoe dps machinegun

[dim kelp]

Is it good for Mel maybe? Can you just like continuously fire from range and always have several skulls out to never reset the bonus?

Oh. Is that so much better than tapping special and keeping firing?

[safe kettle]

also if you miss you arent screwed

running around to collect missed skulls feels so bad, (i play mkb so no aimbot for me)

[dim kelp]

But you can just use your special to collect the skulls, no?

[safe kettle]

you still have to run around to the skulls

[analog ether]

Special does have a leash range on returning skulls.

[safe kettle]

yeah but not across a room

[analog ether]

I know, that's what I mean.

[safe kettle]

it's probably bad for controller with aimbot

[dim kelp]

I see. Maybe the collection range is shorter than I realized, because I usually play Medea or Persephone

[uneven palm]

machine gun with Fetching Array is fun. And yeah you stand a little bit away you basically always have some skulls out for bonus damage

[fleet basalt]

I don't understand natural selection: What does it mean leftmost boons? Does it mean the Attack/ Specials and all?
It says +8 and I have all my basics boon-ified

[polar ravine]

also combined with the hammer that causes retrieval to cause a omega attack when retrieved for 25 mana means if you have enough mana or a way to regen fast you can blast pretty much anything away

[glass shell]

the core boons yes, all 5 slots divided up, so 2 to 3 1 boon to 2 if all 5 are filled

[civic ocean]

Fetching array is pretty good on Mel Skulls largely if you want to play a ranged gameplan

It really increases your attack speed in that case. It’s one of my favourite boons for Antler Mel Skull - but that build is honestly kind of on the rocks atm for Surface as it can really really struggle with the Polyphemus Rivals fight (it relies on damage shields and gale for survivability and so it gets owned by the poison, and doesn’t quite have the damage atm to kill Poly fast even with Origination)

[dim kelp]

Would it be worth using a damage keepsake for the first region instead of a god one?

If you’re using antler for final region, maybe droplet would work for region 1?

[civic ocean]

Maybe, but I think that Hera + Demeter + Heph are really strong for the build so I do start with Demeter usually (freeze is kinda busted with high damage low survival stuff and Snow Queen and The Keepsake upgrade are pretty good)

I think I am going to try going for Upgraded Lion Fang in Olympus and fig leaf in Thessaly if the gods are all in the bucket

And also the best way to improve the build is "suck less booty at the Polyphemus fight"

[civic ocean]

does anyone know the new timing on the poly rock drop in his fight, I am like 0 for 50 at dodging it

fren 2

[opal crane]

is dagger omega attack going off and spending mana without teleporting to a target because of the "omega moves do an extra effect that does damage" boon a bug or intended?

[willow phoenix]

Ngl I also feel like they changed this somehow, I used to be able to dodge this consistently even on Rivals Poly, but now it keeps hitting me lol

[sage flame]

they did change it, its shockwaves are uneven now and i also dont know what to do about it lol

[analog ether]

Man, Zeus attack on Anubis is ridiculous.

If you can get someone to sit at the point where your attack and Omega attack intersect, Blitz fires off really quickly. Especially if you have Arc Flash.

[willow phoenix]

Maybe sgg just wants the players to actually not let Poly hear you

[sage flame]

but the dps

that 5 min timer aint moving any slower ya know?

[silent crow]

how does his hearing even work

[elfin forge]

any attack, special, or cast I think, including lingering attacks like Anubis

[willow phoenix]

When he's doing his rock drop, if you do any kind of attack/special/cast will make him 'spot' you and drop a rock on you

[elfin forge]

if it's an anubis run it's basically impossible to not be heard

[civic ocean]

you have to hit him right

[elfin forge]

don't think so

[sage flame]

it used to be hitting him yeah

havent paid attention if they changed it

since im overconfident and just dpsing while he listens

[analog ether]

As far as I know, you still have to actually hit him.

[elfin forge]

I'm pretty sure if you swing in the middle of nowhere he'll still hear you, but not 100% sure tho

[tall notch]

If you love gambling then go for it

[broken lichen]

Does Athena's "after you take damage" boon not work with the Heinous Affront duo?
I managed to get both of them, and I don't think it worked, but I really just want confirmation if it does/doesn't

[civic ocean]

I don't think it does, no. If it did I am pretty sure it would be listed as a possible requirement for HA

[willow phoenix]

It doesn't work with Heinous Affront but somehow works with the "after you take damage" upgrade for Night Bloom

Interestingly Unseen Ire works with Heinous Affront, don't remember if it does with other trigger revenge effect upgrades

[willow phoenix]

Another interesting one I remembered is that Self Healing from Apollo actually works with the Night Bloom upgrade, so just messy all around

[past salmon]

@empty musk #h2-feedback message
Did you have DDs on? It's pretty rare to not have Athena appear before echo otherwise, as she always come as soon as possible.

So unless you hit both nemesis and Fig leaf in your first room I'm fairly sure you just didn't realise you had DDs on

[empty musk]

What would having DDs on change? Is Athena not allowed to appear until you run out?

Bc if so then now we have an entirely different issue 💀

[past salmon]

Read the keepsake 💀

[empty musk]

Omg you're right I'm stupid

I've been on Strength for so long I forgot ab that mechanic

Let me go delete that rn then, thx

[past salmon]

Add 1 to the counter

Lmao it's a common mistake I've done it myself

[dull ferry]

was aspect of pan + poseidon special nerfed? I came back to the game after unseen update and I don't feel it as strong as before

[willow phoenix]

Both Pan and Poseidon waves got nerfed

[dull ferry]

so, are poseidon waves no longer best in slot for pan?

[past salmon]

Pan is almost technically buffed but Poseidon waves got nerfed on it

They only hit for 50% of your knives
As for Pan BiS I have no idea I don't know if anyone has been running it in Anyfear or Highfear

[dull ferry]

alright, no more poseidon waves then, thanks

[tall notch]

Poseidon? More like Poseidon't

[past salmon]

Poseidon? More like really good on new stuff and murdered on his old stuff

Tidal ring is goated now so

[empty musk]

I mean Poseidon's still stronger than he was pre-unseen just bc of Froth but lowkey I just don't like internal cooldowns since you'll never know ab it unless you look it up

[past salmon]

Yeh imo the internal cooldowns kinda gooft

[empty musk]

Also you think flood gain being infinite for non-channel magic consumption is intentional or . . . ?

Is it ridiculous w/ Mirrored Thrasher? Absolutely. Do I want them to get rid of it though? I've already lost too much this update

[fluid quail]

how do you build selene coat?

[grave forge]

Have discovered that aspect of Anubis and hestia attack works really well

[past salmon]

Probably not
It has a really goofy interaction with possessed specifically atm

It lets you use possessed forever during its duration but it won't restore any magick lol

[empty musk]

• You have to take Ares keepsake region 1 if you want the godsent hex, but it's not even guaranteed and lowkey not worth it (unless you take Ares special and do an attack focused run, that way you can still proc wounds with tier 2 boons )
• Def take moonbeam at some point, prob region 3
• Focusing on the omega attack or omega cast (or both with Night but obv harder) is probably best since those scale better w/ the percentage buff compared to the omega special: so take either Winner's Circle or the attack hammers like World Collider

[empty musk]

Huh weird, maybe the restoration is tied to the Hex cost or something but it just decreases magic cost to 0 unless on cooldown

[fluid quail]

moonbeam?

[empty musk]

Selene's keepsake, the one that gives you extra path of stars

[fluid quail]

im playing through the low heat rn for the testmant with ares special and the godsent

this is so boring

[past salmon]

Imo with Selene I really like starting with moonbeam
It makes Skyfall immediately useful and since you can instacharge hex with warding fields in Erebus it's genuinely pretty great

[fluid quail]

are there hammers that make the o atk charge faster so you can get the hex up a lot?

[past salmon]

Rapid frame does work

[fluid quail]

I thought I'd be spamming the hex, is there something that makes it faster?

[past salmon]

Yeah just get all the stuff that increases cost

[willow phoenix]

The godsent is guaranteed now though

[past salmon]

So controlled burn, fine line, ocean swell, cut above

[empty musk]

Oh it is? Guess I might have to pick up Selene again for the first time in months

[past salmon]

And ig Apollo Lego if U feel like gambling

[elfin forge]

wait where does the term "lego" for legendary come from even

[past salmon]

It's easier to say than legendary

[elfin forge]

I know it but now that I think about it, I don't know where I learned it

[empty musk]

I tried it once for the first Unseen patch, realized it was basically just a worse Zenith (rip you were so much better) and then dropped it completely

[past salmon]

Idk lol
It's a natural word to come to as an Aussie.
Simply shorten the word and chuck an o on the end thatl do

[elfin forge]

true that is what aussies do

[willow phoenix]

Ferocity + Ares godsent can deal lots of damage, probably top 2 among godsent for potential damage

[past salmon]

Is ferocity what scorn was

Can we stop changing names around I'm so tired of keeping track of this shi 😭

[empty musk]

Oh wait is Ferocity the one that copies your attack boon? Bc then Ares godsent might actually be worth it

Although it does especially force you to take him on special

I thought that was the one they cut, so what was Zenith??? 💀

[past salmon]

Nah that got nukef

But apparently the wounds on lance of ares don't have a cooldown unless people have been lying to me
So it would be better than old Ferocity with Ares

Idk the only blue upgrade that ever mattered was scorn anyway

Which I believe is called ferocity now

[willow phoenix]

Ferocity is the +50% damage for every consecutive hit on a target

Lance of Ares doesn't have a cd so the damage scaling gets pretty high with enough damage upgrade

Old zenith which only really works with a couple boons got replaced with Ambition that deals +30% damage to bosses which honestly is very underwhelming since ferocity is a thing

[past salmon]

Yeah it's kinda just worse ferocity which is ???

[uneven palm]

Ugh the name changes. Old Ferocity (lasers use effect of attack boon, always buggy af) became Zenith for a hot minute, but it’s gone now.

Old Scorn is now new Ferocity (+50% damage for repeat hits). Lance of Ares is crazy strong with this. Just watch number go up.

The only issue is having to start Ares keepsake and delay the moonbeam

[willow phoenix]

Pls sgg give me artemis godsent

[uneven palm]

Whispered Prayer from her is kinda that lol

[willow phoenix]

Is it really when it doesn't even have actual rarity scaling lol

[stable herald]

remind me again, which one is whispered prayer

[willow phoenix]

30% crit for hex

At all rarity funnily

[stable herald]

oops

[glass shell]

theoretically isn't artemis godsent her new boon

just what everyone has been asking for and making it a boon from the god

[willow phoenix]

Not really a godsent, otherwise circe would have a Godsent too lol

[stable herald]

btw the Arachne dress that reduces the hex charge cost is... kind of awful, right? every time I've been offered it I didn't even have a hex

[willow phoenix]

The way I see it the only way sgg can solve how scuffed Ares godsent with Skyfall is to make a new hex, put Ares godsent on that, then make Artemis the godsent for Skyfall where she always appears so you're not limited in your keepsake choice anymore

[stable herald]

or just make the Godsent hexes boons instead. get a hex, that hex's godsent is added to their Olympian's pool

[brave dove]

I recorded a clip for hippo to check for it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaUArjpaH8M

[willow phoenix]

That would still make Ares limited as picking Ares limits your chances of getting a Godsent available since Skyfall is locked behind an aspect

[brave dove]

godsent hexes becoming boons from the god would be an immense nerf btw I don't understand why people are advocating for this as a buff

[stable herald]

true enough

[brave dove]

path of stars are vastly 'cheaper' than boons

[glass shell]

There are multiples ways to solve it

A- unlock the node when you have the god. Probably a programming nightmare to have hexes passively unlock when you get the god though

B- make the godsent a boon from the god themself, this also has the side effect of providing an element for the god(and an additional boon in general for stuff that cares like the hermes dodge). Preferably it ALSO provides a path of stars so its not a dead boon for non specific hex runs tbh that would be nice

C- Hexes are always godsent, working like a psuedo keepsake forcing that god to spawn in next when you take it if you don't already have them.

D- just disconnect them from needing a keepsake/boon entirely. Who cares if ares shows up randomly in a drive by when hes not my god

[stable herald]

it would dilute one Olympian's pool by one boon

[glass shell]

It really wouldn't since it would have the prereq of "hex:total eclipse" to see that hestia boon

[brave dove]

both in the literal sense from the shop and also in the sense that they're more likely to show up and the opportunity cost for one is lower than picking a specific boon (particularly with vow of denial!)

[glass shell]

Unless they go the route of like i said " get a path of stars" universal boon for all gods

but im all for getting another boon for elemental reasons i need my water fitness stacks

[brave dove]

that's a ridiculously janky answer

it's a solution in search of a problem, godsent hexes are genuinely fine

lance of ares makes selene coat start sword hilt because it trivialises Rivals 3

it's an extremely greedy build that suffers early but gets hella payoff

[glass shell]

I disagree.

Godsents have multiple issues such as being contradictory with their design. Hexes want to be seen early, but if you see them TOO early you can't get them godsent See them too late no paths of star rewards possible. Its even RNG to get them godsent in the first place

Skyfall has the unique problem of locking out any other keepsake start on aspect of selene, but its not like anyone started anything else than selense keepsake before so is that really a new problem? Personally yes cause starting with like 9 nodes was much stronger than "literally nothing except an ares attack boon"

its much STRONGER later with ares godsent though

[brave dove]

...Yes, Moon Beam vs. Sword Hilt start on Selene is a lategame vs. early game scaling decision

That's not a design flaw, quite the opposite!

[glass shell]

its not a decision when ares keepsake is always the correct choice

[brave dove]

It isn't. Like, it just isn't.

Sword Hilt start Aspect of Selene struggles on ultra-high fear UW runs because Erebus is the hardest part and you're weak for it

Lance of Ares is gangbusters once you get to region 3 with a moon beamed path of stars fed to it but you have to get there

[tall notch]

I think the fact that you actually have to start with an Ares boon is a design flaw

[willow phoenix]

Imo regardless of how strong it actually is conceptually it's scuffed

[brave dove]

I think it gets scuffed by, specifically, that Lance of Ares is not a prerequisite for Grievous Blow

[tall notch]

Like imagine you don't get a boon until room 3 and that room 3 boon is sword hilt

[brave dove]

Cut Above is amazing on coat, for example

but you need to take attack or special to get grievous blow for Lance

[tall notch]

Also Selene has the design flaw of forcing you to use coat omegas

[brave dove]

coat ospecial is great I don't understand your hate

coat oattack did apparently get better this patch I need to block more to test it but yeah it's squiffy

[tall notch]

I can't think of a time when i wouldn't rather just click Nyx and reg special instead

[stable herald]

yeah coat ospecial rules, O attack is... fine

[tall notch]

That thing just doesn't do a whole lot and you have to stand still to channel it

[glass shell]

make shiva o-attack basekit

[willow phoenix]

Like the codex even list Ares boon as a possible requirement which can never happen, it's just a weird design decision

[glass shell]

flying forward on shiva is peak.... just the rest of the aspect feels clunky. funny numbers though

[tall notch]

I'd rather fight rivals hecate with nergal than click coat ospec

[brave dove]

rivals hecate isn't actually too bad with nergal because you basically just tank through her for one (1) night-buffed oattack per phase

two if you have grit on

oh as a note I suggest trying, of all things, demeter attack on nergal

you need a high rarity because her multiplier is not great - epic or heroic - but it's legitimately very strong and you can use weed killer to make up for the multiplier loss

[willow phoenix]

And honestly having gifting Ares a nectar being a requirement to even see the godsent on Skyfall is just weird

[glass shell]

i was gonna argue that you'd probably gift ares nectar once before GETTING the aspect of selene.... but then i realized ares is simultaniously locked behind seeing the surface boss at least once

is coat still excluded from the aspect unlocks? if you need to beat hecate with coat now that locks aspects behind olympus which means the timing probably still works out in favor of gifting ares

[willow phoenix]

You underestimate how casual players can just refuse to gift a character nectar if they just don't like them

[glass shell]

😭

[stable herald]

that's their problem tho

[willow phoenix]

That still doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to use the Godsent

Like there would be a lot of players that just use whatever keepsake they want first for Selene coat and never get the Ares Godsent

[glass shell]

I do think something needs to change with it but i don't know if they are willing

Just having them be innate to the hex without conditions is the cleanest solution

Always godsent

[brave dove]

ares is melinoe's biggest fan though

like I would consider this a reasonable issue for eris or nemesis or even hera, but ares? I feel that's a very niche edge case and one that can be satisfactorily answered with 'they can look it up'

[tall notch]

But that doesn't mean she likes him

[timber pawn]

I actually had a casual friend ask me where to find ares godsent because they were working on the prophecy. It seems like it's very not-intuitive 'where' it is

[half kindle]

oh... that is why I do not find godsent hexes? I always pick Selene's keepsake to start with the hex.

[glass shell]

Yes, you quite literally cannot get a godsent room 1 if you take selene keepsake

You must have either A- the god in your pool already or B- their keepsake equipped to be a valid godsent. And even fufilling either of those you need to C- roll the right hex for the god as there is no prioriy for hexes of gods you already have its all RNG

you could theoretically have 5 gods in your pool and still get zero godsents by having the 3 offered you don't have(since ares is exclusive to skyfall)

[half kindle]

Oh I see... Thank you for explaining! I really appreciate it.

Do all gods have a godsent? I ask because... Although technically Selene has 9 hexes, and there are 9 gods, IDK if Sky Fall has a godsent.

Oh I see you edited the message, sorry! Thank you for the info

Best boons for Hel's Argent Skull?

[glass shell]

all gods are assigned to a specific hex yes. Ares is skyfall and you MUST bring ares keepsake

because the path of stars for skyfall is generated on run start, and you can't have an ares boon on run start

[glass shell]

Poseidon attack, zeus/ares special.

[half kindle]

Thank u! really appreciate all

[real rune]

Any textbook supay run videos out there ?

I'm having a very hard time wraping my head around this particular aspect.

[real rune]

I've seen hestia and poseidon on the attack the most. Then maybe zeus on the special since the skull will go around the screen spreading bolts.

Hammers i prefer the one that extends the range, and the one that makes the shots curve from an enemy to another.

[half kindle]

I always go Zeus and Apollo for sure. Zeus for the Rush, Apollo for the specials.

I have found Hestia for the attack pretty useful as wel. And probably Demeter to complete the Casts combo in case you see yourself surrounded.

Of course this is only what has worked with me. I am no expert.

[real rune]

Do you work with the omega attack/special or just let the auto-firing/rotating normal ones do the job ?

[willow phoenix]

I found the most straightforward way is just put Poseidon on dash, anything on special, and zeus/hestia on attack

Then you just spam that breaker rush

%damage boons are actually decent now on special since they changed to just one ball

[half kindle]

I usually do use the omegas, mostly the attack. If you get Zeus' special before Apollo's, it is very useful to use the omega so you can apply the effect on all surrounding enemies.

Personally, I focus on boons that allows my special and casts to clean waves, and my attack to solo/enemies. That's why Hestia on attack does a pretty good job with the progressive burning.

[willow phoenix]

Blitz actually scales better on attack rather than special now so it's better to just put it in attack, especially with the supay normal special no longer hitting that much

You can also do Hestia start for Heat Rush but that can be harder for higher fear runs since you want to be stacking the heat rush fires

Zeus is okayish for rush damage. The main draw of using zeus on Supay is mostly in Romantic Spark and possibly King's Ransom. If you put zeus in like attack and get RS, you should be able to keep popping it

[civic ocean]

Isnt heat rush super broken on supay

[willow phoenix]

It's very strong but is riskier than Breaker Rush

[civic ocean]

Why is it riskier

[willow phoenix]

The big dps on Heat Rush is when you stack all of the fire trails on the enemy which requires a lot of running in circles on the enemy, while for Breaker it's mostly just spamming dash

[civic ocean]

Oh okay I guess that makes sense

[stuck ether]

Breaker rush also unlocks bball which is why i like it more

[stuck ether]

Zeus rush actually feels horrible on supay bc it has NO room clear

[willow phoenix]

Yea it's not that good unless you have ransom

[fluid quail]

how do you make the coat not be boring

gotta be the worst weapon in all of hades

[willow phoenix]

Mash the attack special and completely ignore the omega

Works for both mel coat and nyx

Honestly though, is there a reason to ever pick mel coat over nyx?

[brave dove]

ospecial is great

also no, mel coat was revealed by the unseen update to being wave strike and exhaust riser in a trenchcoat

when those were taken away it has nothing and is now drowning

[fluid quail]

which ones the best aspect

[brave dove]

depends on what you're looking for

[fluid quail]

the last 2 testament runs idc about fun

[brave dove]

oh you mean for coat specifically

nyx or shiva

[fluid quail]

yeah, I'd prefer to never use the weapon again

whats the strat with shiva?

[stuck ether]

Apollo attack and omega attack

[alpine eagle]

How do you make Selene coat in work? It just doesn’t seem that strong to me?

[willow phoenix]

Upgrade skyfall then eat enough magick to keep using skyfall

[civic ocean]

I like going for Night combos with Selene usually using the cast and attack atm

[willow phoenix]

Personally I also use night but I alternate with O special and O cast since I don't really like O attack

[civic ocean]

Yeah I might switch to that too

[willow phoenix]

I do feel like Selene coat is more like a limiter for Skyfall because imagine what Skyfall can do with other aspects lol

[ivory shore]

Nightspawn with Poseidon attack and Hera/Aphro/Hestia on special

Damage goes brrrr

[fluid quail]

whats this night stuff yall are talking about

[willow phoenix]

Arcana, alternating omega moves give 15% crit chance

Which is a lot of damage for both Selene and Shiva

I think the easiest is probably just pick Nyx, turn auto fire on, put Poseidon or Hestia on special, then activate Nightspawn and mash attack special

[glass shell]

arcana #10, 2nd row far right. +15% crit chance when alternating omegas

[real rune]

I hated how you have to stop to trigger breaker rush again, i'm willing to take a less powerfull rush if it isn't as clunky to activate

[real rune]

I had a lot of fun with Nyx coat. Put something like apollo on the dash, hestia on the special, demeter cast for freezer burn and then just use your omega rush to activate nightspawn and autofire your special.

Pretty zoomy, safe and simple playstyle.

[topaz meteor]

Worry-free is so scary 😭😭 was against Typhon and he hit me a lot, felt like every hit could be the one that ended the run

[willow phoenix]

I actually like worry free because of that lol, no worrying

[fluid quail]

how does auto fire work? can I not sprint while using it

[topaz meteor]

i assume it just simulates you mashing the button repeatedly, and you cant do that while sprinting, like, you can only do 1 dash strike

[willow phoenix]

You can still sprint but it will prevent you from using o attack and O special

You can mash buttons noticeably faster with it on coat

[civic ocean]

It’s a player buff you don’t get any anxiety when low hp

[tall notch]

but you get anxiety when you don't know your hp

[willow phoenix]

Not me
Can't choke if you don't know how close you are to death

[civic ocean]

Nah I don’t get bothered till the screen turns red

[dim kelp]

I never really "got" the aspect of nyx before, but I think it's finally clicking

We'll see how the rest of the run goes, but I'm having an easier time with rivals and frenzy than I have with other coat aspects

[tall notch]

it just clicks bro

[fluid quail]

whats the deal with frenzy

people have been mentioning it a lot

whats your favorite nyx combo @tall notch

[atomic ibex]

Frenzy is vow you really need to learn to deal with on high fear

[tall notch]

hestia special + whatever honestly, as long as you got her the run is all positive vibes only

though I'd advise not to click poseidon rush because it will make it harder to keep the nightspawn buff up

[dim kelp]

Why's that?

[tall notch]

breaker rush will trigger and push enemy away before you can get close enough to them to trigger omega boost

[fluid quail]

also people are tlaking about using night but you'd have to give up persistance to add night?

[dim kelp]

oh interesting

ack, that reminds me, I forgot to switch my arcana whoops

[dim kelp]

that's a good tip, I'd otherwise have thought it would be a good pairing to stack burst

[civic ocean]

Lots of coats can probably drop furies or just drop queen and run multiple 2 costs

The way the missiles work doesn’t always work with furies super consistently

[tall notch]

I was actually excited to try that and then got really frustrated when my omega boost didnt go off and i expected it to

[dim kelp]

yeah, that makes sense. I suppose if you wanted to get a similar feel, you could try for beach ball instead? you'd need apollo rush though, and maybe having a no-damage rush is a bad idea too

[fluid quail]

ok nyx so far withh hestia spam is a lot more fun than the other aspects

[ember frigate]

how is the aspect of morrgian? any tips on using it?

[fluid quail]

start with either o atk > special > atk > o atk, or dash attack > o attack > special > dash attack > o attatch

test iton skelly, to get two blood triad loops

[ember frigate]

would special -> attack -> and right after o attack work or no?
still thank you for the tip, kinda hard to get the hang of it

[spiral wadi]

as long as you get 3 hits thru them it'll proc triad, since atk/special can multihit they can both proc triad and hit for next triad

[fluid quail]

yeah, but the biggest thing is that the special coming back will loop into your next triad combo

[spiral wadi]

omega attack is also strong w/ appropriate buffs if ur running a % attack

[fluid quail]

so you can do 2 triads with one use of special

[mossy bramble]

What do y’all go for on nergal?

[deep fog]

So does Arterial Spray (Poseidon/Ares duo) affect every splash effect or just attack/special. Trying to do some Circe shenanigans but not really feeling the buff

[civic ocean]

My build is offmeta but I aim for double attack or double dash attack hammers with either frinos or Raki and go Aph-Ares-Demeter and one of Poseidon or Heph. Get lots of HP, Mutual Destruction, Arctic Ring, and swing wildly at everything

More meta stuff is to go Aph O-Attack and Psychic Whirlwind

If I am not mistaken and I don’t think I am you are able to both dash and apply casts mid-jump on the standard Nergal attack, which opens up lots of possibilities. I managed to clear 39F Rivals4 Frenzy2 Chronos with it but it feels like even more upside is possible

[uneven palm]

Not really. Probably you’re choosing between Huntress or Night. Or builds that take the most advantage of Night only get so-so value from Origination so maybe you drop that

[fervent coyote]

What is up with new Chronos man

Last patch he felt unfair in an EM Hades sorta way

now he feels like the same boss but a little longer

[stuck turret]

out of curiosity for torches, is aspect of eos or moros stronger (I just got eos LOL)

[cerulean panther]

Moros.

[regal talon]

im gonna need some critical advice, what the heck do i run for staff 32 fear, i am so cooked rn

it feels like staff is in such an ass place rn

[uneven palm]

Wha? All the staffs are pretty strong right now. Go for a big special build on Mel, all the cast or Omega cast goodies on Circe, or Hestia attack and whatever big percent special on Anubis

[regal talon]

feel like my output aint cutting it

relative to the other weapons like daggers and torches

[uneven palm]

Probably technique. In general when you’re not doing omegas do special dash-strike attack(s). Weave in Omegas as you can.

Anubis do a dash-strike (it drops the zone faster) then cast, special or O special to bring things into the zone.

Momus I do O cast, then whatever Omega move I have a spicy hammer or boon for and stack up the repeating bad boys.

[glass bone]

Depends on if you are doing Surface or Underworld.
A few to start; Denial, Menace, Frenzy, and Time 2 are good to generally have on unless you want to practice Rival bosses.
Then there’s a lot of options from there.
If you aren’t going for Timer 3 or maxed Frenzy, it’s imo a safe bet to go for Rivals 2 either way (especially surface because Rival Eris could be easier).
Since you’re doing Staff, you could try Wards (especially if it’s Anubis).
You could try Hubris, though the staves probably are hurt a bit more than other weapons for this (Mel could be built for OSpecial, Circe could be build for Omega Casts, Momus is built completely around Omega moves, and Anubis likes to have the Omega Attack wave out if possible).

[regal talon]

im attempting underworld maxed rivals

[glass bone]

Oh… If you’re doing that, Frenzy 2 will hurt a lot, and so will Timer 3.

[regal talon]

lemme try to bring up my fear build

[civic ocean]

Last week I did max rivals frenzy 2 time 3 with:

circe
frinos

zeus strike start into double arctic cast and support fire + static shock with Air Quality active

39f total fear so can definitely do 32

[glass bone]

Haven’t you done 50+ though?

[civic ocean]

I did 50 like once in Warsong I think

But I took most of Warsong off and am washed atm

[regal talon]

wait a second, can i not paste images here?

i cant, thats tough

[glass bone]

Videos could be, but that would probably take more time than writing it down.

[regal talon]

might as well list the ones i dont run, pain grit hordes menace return and forfeit

[glass bone]

Well there’s a start. I’d recommend turning on Menace. It is a free 3 fear to the opinion of most.

[civic ocean]

Menace is stronger miniboss right

[uneven palm]

That’s shadow

[glass bone]

No that’s Shadow

[uneven palm]

Menace is next region

[solemn loom]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator

[regal talon]

what about in terms of boons? i used to run hestia zeus

[glass bone]

Also, what Scar rank do you have?

[civic ocean]

Scars 3 or coward

[brave dove]

I wouldn't call menace at all free but it's decent value

[uneven palm]

I wouldn’t do max scars at 32. Healing nice.

[civic ocean]

I do it but I also wouldn’t recommend it

[uneven palm]

Also we’ve lost all the cheese that ignores scars

[brave dove]

no we haven't

[regal talon]

thanks

[civic ocean]

We lost a bunch of it, but also like making the enemies easier to deal with and valuing max hp higher is still a pretty solid way to address Scars

Scars is terrible value tho 4 fear for -100% healing damn

[uneven palm]

I mean if Charity Bottles don’t work anymore that was the biggun

[civic ocean]

Forage Charity are the big ones

[uneven palm]

Yeah those were fixed

[glass bone]

How does Nergal work with Scars now?

[uneven palm]

It works

[civic ocean]

It works

[glass bone]

Not even the 50% reduction affects it or the boosted healing hammer?

[uneven palm]

Nergal and Vampiric Cataclysm hammer just work

[civic ocean]

There are some cool tricks you can do like Self Healing Security System as well

[graceful spoke]

which aspect for the coat is the besr

[glass bone]

It’s better than nothing. Still, 3 is probably only worth it for the high end.

[graceful spoke]

and like their uses i just wanna try a coat build with smth

and wanna know whts good and a viable use for each one (or just the best one) and if u could give me a good build would be appreciated^^

[civic ocean]

Idk you can read right, what do you think sounds good with them

[uneven palm]

Nyx probably these days. Just throw Hestia Poseidon Zeus Ares or Hera on attack/special and it’s probably fine

[graceful spoke]

only nyx? or are there other ones

[uneven palm]

You asked which is the best coat, and I think I’d say Nyx

[graceful spoke]

oh ok and the rest are viable but shes the best correcrt?

[civic ocean]

Viable for what

[uneven palm]

Anything is viable

[civic ocean]

This is a single player narrative roguelike

[graceful spoke]

runs i mean

but ok ty for the info

[uneven palm]

Like any of the weapons are more than capable of doing anything normal people would like to accomplish. Use whatcha like

[mossy bramble]

finished that run

while taking around 2K damage

[brave dove]

okay so

this is going to sound weird but

demeter attack (you do really want it to be at least epic)

just spam oattack, get weed killer

[mossy bramble]

OHHHH (i had to double check what weed killer was)

i barely ever use weed killer

[civic ocean]

The omega attack on nergal is pretty good

I don’t play it but I think it’s what the Chinese player who got the 62 surface clear used

[stuck turret]

guys, should I go for epic phlanx shot or epic righteous pike (im using torches)

[glass shell]

well phalanx shot is easily athenas worst boon so no matter the scenario its never that.

with torches if your mana burn its RP always, but if your not mana burn you do you.

[glass bone]

Asked this at start at Patch 9, but I figure that more time should pass. As of right now, what would be the best/worst aspects for High Fear? (All aspects I feel can complete 32 Fear easily provided the player is good enough, but getting close to 50, or near 60 Fear, I wonder what are easiest to do such fears at with all the major changes in 9 and 10.)

[brave dove]

it really varies on what you mean by high fear, but everything can clear 50 fear rn

you can configure vows to find something that'll work

62... probably still every aspect but you might have to be mynt or close for the worse ones

67 I think a chunk of aspects just unavoidably die in erebus

[glass bone]

I mean high fear by the range of like… 50-62 (all but Void). And I mean it in terms of “What weapons have the highest chance of success for a player who is equally skilled in all weapons?”

[brave dove]

prolly anubis

[glass bone]

What about worst? (Or a few of the worst)

[brave dove]

mel coat because there is basically no reason to use it over any of the other aspects

exhaust riser is kil ;-;

[glass bone]

I can think of one reason

That one Fountain room type. Bonus speed against timer totally matters /j, kind of.

But okay. I ask, since to this point, I’ve played around with most weapons (exceptions are Eos Torches, Nyx Coat, Hel Skull, and Shiva Coat). Been thinking of some community tier list for a while, either within the same weapon category, or between all 32.

And my perspectives probably A. don’t match top players at all (if there’s even a consensus there), and B. are uncertain within myself as well.

[past salmon]

Idk about this
People seem to forget that sometimes Erebus can be like oceanus and just cease to exist

[glass bone]

There’s also the other half. Which has its own issues.

[brave dove]

oh right hm

[glass bone]

Also, does movement speed boons/effects affect Phase 3 Typhon/the child phase?

[brave dove]

that's a lot of resets though...

[past salmon]

Tell that to the max heat grinders and get throat punched

Mfers get to leave the first room once an hour 🔥 😭

[brave dove]

are they okay

[uneven palm]

No they are not

[brave dove]

any tier list needs to have a purpose

[past salmon]

I mean aspect tierlists are weird

Like how good an aspect is will vary between casual, speeds and high fear

And will also vary between high fear and giga high fear

[civic ocean]

Also often between people too

[glass bone]

Well then that would be like…. 5 or 6 lists.

[past salmon]

I mean idk if between people is a relevant stat

Like sure Jimmy might be really good at Eos and terrible at Medea
That doesn't make Medea the worse aspect

[civic ocean]

If the list is for like 32 then like individual feel probably matters

But also there are like 15 different other factors

[glass bone]

That’s why I said 5/6.
In theory, there could be…

• A “Casual/Fun” list.
• Speedrunning
• Casual High Fear (32/24)
• High Fear (50+)
• “Higher Fear” (60+)

[brave dove]

not all 50s are built alike

[past salmon]

Max fear would still be significantly different to 62F

[brave dove]

not all 32s, either

[past salmon]

Some aspects really really don't like losing arcana

[past salmon]

Tbf I think you can reasonably assume just using the easiest vow setup at that fear for that aspect

[brave dove]

so many people insist hordes 3 is easier than time 2 foolish

[past salmon]

People also think the earth is flat 😔

But no I mean yeh I get it

[brave dove]

warsong was ironically kinda easier for this I think

[past salmon]

Idk how people reach that conclusion considering hordes is directly making it harder to reach timer
But yeh I see that opinion a lot

[civic ocean]

Why though like what is the reason for this

[brave dove]

but rivals lets you knock out your personal least favourite vows at any given 'tier' for relatively little risk

[past salmon]

For FUN! East
One does not need a reason

[past salmon]

I'm not sure if I agree with your definition of little risk

Rivals as a vow is a lot harder than a good chunk of the others

[brave dove]

like I hate unrivaled hecate but if I can stop having a skill issue with scylla taking rivals 3 for 50 would let me knock out most of hordes/wards/return/scars 3

which are some of the more meta-defining vows

[glass bone]

Because I people need to make money off of people playing a tier list video in the background. We need more Hades 2 yapping content! /j

[civic ocean]

“/j”

[brave dove]

like wards and onion in particular drastically change god and aspect picks in comparison to rivals IMO, so rivals 50 and warsong 50 would have different tier lists

[glass bone]

No, my actual reason is to give some amount of control to feedback to beginners and SuperGiant. The former to help people experience the joy of winnings, and the latter to centralize rebalancing ideas

But okay. I drifted it away from the topic. Builds and combat! Some weapons are better than others, and I think that having the community make some list about it could help with feedback

[brave dove]

it's kinda tough though because the best weapons tend to be ones the average player has trouble with - medea, morrigan and anubis are all I think indisputably S-tier right now but a lot a lot of people post on here asking for help about how to play them

[glass bone]

Then A. guides could be made, and B. skill floors can be included along with skill ceilings and/or strengths.

[ivory shore]

I love Medea and Anubis (beat 32 fear on both without much difficulty), but I can't get Morrigan to pop for me tbh

the daggers in general are probably my least successful weapon

[glass bone]

Though I do agree regardless with the toughness, since there’s different reasons for the trouble. Maybe someone knows the aspect well, but doesn’t know the best boons, or struggles killing one or two bosses with it (idk about everyone else, but I feel like Medea Rival Eris could be painful at times).

[gaunt canopy]

Daggers that arent morrigan are all a little bit scuffed right now yeah?