h2-builds-and-combat

[civic ocean]

Sorry I got tired towards the end and stopped tracking stuff lol

[brazen ore]

Nah you're good thank you

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSm2KltkfvUcVAxeqa8TE1Ix1N1u5I2bgC94rUjXs1tegyOZoeVM0H_JVuyNDEmYB5Sl-CxCTA7FLlV/pubhtml If anyone is curious this is what I played last patch, and will probably start updating it with the new info now after some testing

Everything at least cleared 32F for the biome it lists

[brazen ore]

that's awesome, thanks

[civic ocean]

Damn so much of it is outdated now. Persephone don't even work like that it's the Heph Blast aspect now

[glass bone]

I wonder what the most reworked weapon is in this game

As in; a weapon where a mechanic is added or removed (not just a stat adjustment).

[brazen ore]

Momus probably

[civic ocean]

I think at this point it is probably a torch? Like, Mel Torches maybe?

The Flames have been iterated on more than any weapon

[quasi mica]

it's either mel torches or eos

which got all the mechanical adjustments every torch got + 1 complete rework each

moros has been the same lingering attack and explosion concept from the start meanwhile

[brazen ore]

i dont think eos has been reworked has it? I mean, god I wish it was

[quasi mica]

on release it was just inverted spark

[sudden inlet]

Gotcha, appreciated.

[dim kelp]

It’s kinda unfortunate that Death and Wayward Son are in the same column, since Strength makes healing worth more effective HP (absent Vow of Scars of course)

[silent crow]

it was cool epic inverted spark

[brazen ore]

honestly I do think it's kinda cool that the placement of the arcana cards/the desire to trigger queen also serves as a way of balancing them a bit

[real rune]

Aspect of Beowulf in Hades 1 did "big numbers feel good" weapon archetype right

[tall notch]

I miss old Eos it was a blast

[reef agate]

Got my first 5 Nightmare, what would you use it to unlock first?

[median sentinel]

How do I go about knowing what boons pair up good with each other?

[grand prism]

Play the game.

[median sentinel]

I’ve beaten chronos but I can’t win any nightmare so I want to find a list or something that shows what I can aim for

[wicked thorn]

holy CRAP supay is insane

[brazen ore]

people can't be saying this now. Don't make them do it again

[tall notch]

Yeah supay is insane i think we should reduce the rush damage and make attack fewer projectiles. Also can we pls make ospec one orb? Two is too many

[glass bone]

Here’s a list of Vows to start with;
Menace (completely free fear for the most part. 25% chance of enemies being harder in 3/4 areas. 3 free fear imo.)
Timer 1/2 (3 can be tough starting out, but getting used to Timer is useful).
Denial (If you use Origination, this can be a good motivator to not stick to a boss)
Frenzy* (Don’t use Frenzy if you wish to practice Rival bosses. Otherwise, get used to it like Timer)
Forfeit* (A generally safe bet at the very beginning, but adding more and more fear makes this one harder to swallow. Surface runs mitigate this slightly because Ephyra is all major finds).
Rivals* (Going for 1 or 2 of the Rivals can be safe for many. But do note that all of them do get harder in some regards)
Wards* (Depends on the aspect. If you are a beginner axe player, forget about it. But if you use faster weapons, it’s pretty good to try).

[brazen ore]

so real for this

[tall notch]

Maybe I'm too brain rotted but I think the revenant vow (whatever its new name is, i think it's return?) is free fear

Patch 1 revs had their annoying moments but sgg nerfed that vow a lot

[brazen ore]

I also think it is but I really enjoy anything that makes me run around fast so it feels better to me kinda

[median sentinel]

Thx ima go try these out

[brave dove]

good grief onion at starting vows?

I guess it's fine for Ephyra but it does make Thessaly even worse and Erebus feels pretty bad with it IMO

Hubris is free if you're not playing a magicka-based build, and taking Scars 1 specifically can be a good reminder to clean up your play a bit without actually like, really stopping you too bad

[glass bone]

I haven’t done onion myself (I’m not like other Hades 2 players /j), so I figured to give advice from my own experiences, and from others (point from onion is https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/1j84kw5/a_fundamentals_guide_to_high_fear_by_a_50_fear/)

[brave dove]

Mininet's stuff is spot on but it's geared more towards people looking at 50 Fear than people looking at 8 😛

though to be fair it is useful for everyone, so yeah you should just read that Lite

[glass bone]

I figured to share why at Mininet said about Onion, because Lite_Shadow said that they have gotten No Fear, so gaining 3 Fear plus one or two small things is “a start”.

[brave dove]

I would not consider turning on Forfeit until post-32, honestly

[sudden inlet]

I'mma be real if you're doing Rivals do not do Frenzy at this moment because holy hell it makes the Unrivaled fights even stupider.

[brave dove]

old Surface 32 maybe you use Forfeit because you can compensate with Ephyra but at 24 you don't need it

[sudden inlet]

I just love +40% speed Unrivaled Cerberus wigging out like he's a linebacker high on PCP and I'm holding every football ever made.

[brave dove]

onion screws with you in a lot of ways and also it just kinda feels bad

[brave dove]

cerb's fiiiine

chronos, on the other hand-

[sudden inlet]

I did Chronos EM4 on 40% Frenzy and NEVER AGAIN

[glass bone]

Same. I had to facetank that fight. And I feel the same with Typhon.

[sudden inlet]

Typhon isn't that bad because he doesn't really move he just slams his chin and let's loose with his bad breath and laser for the most part. It's freakin' Peepaw on the Adderall blitzing the arena that's annoying.

[tall notch]

With rivals being in the game I wouldn't click onion until at least 56 fear ngl

[sudden inlet]

I just don't really like the Unrivaled fights atm because a vast majority aren't really that difficult due to new moves or damage ( though those do play a part in it ), I'm annoyed by all the AOE and area denial attacks.

Unrivaled Scylla on Frenzy2 might as well be bullet Hell and needs the Hermes boon for the projectile speed

[brave dove]

hordes 3 over onion o_O

[glass bone]

As it stands, imo, the difficulty order of Rivals is like…

1. Chronos
2. Typhon
3. Cerberus
4. Prometheus
   —— Then a gap in the middle
5. Scylla & Sirens
6. Polyphemus
7. Hecate
8. Eris
   My bias for Scylla over Polyphemus may be because I don’t like putting Frenzy on Surface now if I do Prometheus, and also I’ve been doing more Underworld runs recently. As for Eris, my perspective as 32 below is I was able to face tank Eris pre-Patch 10, and post-Patch 10 is… I think easier?

[tall notch]

People are too scared of hordes. Just get hitch and you'll barely feel the difference trust

[brave dove]

I'd probably say something like

1. Chronos
2. Typhon
3. Scylla
4. Hecate
5. Prometheus

---

6. Polyphemus
7. Cerberus
8. Eris

[glass bone]

Ok, I do have to ask about Hecate and Cerberus placements (since well, those are switched from mine).

I’m guessing the reason is Onion, Debt, etc. makes the early game harder/RNG dependent, and Timer makes Hecate have the chance of timing you out

[tall notch]

Hecate is brilliant at wasting time

[glass bone]

Well, I’m gonna go try out my first 32 Surface (Circe + Frinos, Hestia start). Time to see how hard the original Night’s Champion could have been (if I did it earlier).

Oh wait, actually, wrong trinket. I think the best one is Anvil Ring

[tall notch]

Anvil and storm both seem really good. Not sure which does better overall actually

[brave dove]

Cerberus is super easy and Hecate is both a) incredible at wasting your time b) is the only boss in the game with genuinely dangerous movesets while invincible now.

which is incredibly frustrating on high fear, Scylla may be objectively more difficult but I have genuinely grown to loathe unrivaled hecate, she is by far my least favourite boss

she takes a ridiculous amount of time, her damage is ridiculously hard to fully avoid and she's full of frustration features like her adds running away from you and clustering around her at times when you physically cannot go there

and erebus isn't like ephyra, you aren't hitting her with a full build, especially with onion in play

[tall notch]

Wait how are people finding rival cerb easy? He just seems to cover the entire arena and i often either don't know where to stand or how to get to him

[brave dove]

the balance patch might have made her basic combo easier to dodge with frenzy but that was just not even slightly an issue with her, they did bugfix her lingering shots which is nice but they gave her some stuff that's just plain absurd to try and fully avoid while dodging out the hex

[bleak gale]

Is Supay Rush boon even that much of an issue

I feel like I'm more focused on the Omega Special when I actually use it

[brave dove]

you hit him with a full build and he doesn't have invulns or instant teleports

[elfin forge]

the meta is kinda not doing omega special and focusing on normal special + dash, from what I could see

I think there's like two playstyles, dash+special+point blank vs ospecial midrange

[tall notch]

Is there a single reason not to play moros instead if you want to midrange?

[elfin forge]

you don't need to click as much idk

[glass bone]

Quick question; does Denial affect Hammers?

[tall notch]

No

[civic salmon]

did they fix the anubis + poseidon attack?

also with the morrigan, i feel like the triad is setting off without omega cast damage
has anyone else noticed this?

[elfin forge]

?

morrigan works with all any omega move, not just cast

[civic salmon]

oh i htought it was specifically cast

[visual moat]

||Hidden aspect of torch|| is probably gonna get nerved again next patch cause tell me why I got a no hit boss fight with the final boss of the underworld route

[wintry grove]

F24/32 is maybe too hard for me but not sure how to have fun without the challenge??

[elfin forge]

Was this unrivaled or normal? If normal, that's pretty normal I think

[elfin forge]

24f and 32f probably aren't too hard, as long as you pick the right vows, arcanas, and keepsakes.

[visual moat]

Unrivaled

[ocean ibex]

what are wounds'/ares' best use cases?

[elfin forge]

ooh hitless unrivaled now that's interesting

[visual moat]

||He got special dialogue so I think I didn't get hit and I didn't see it on the healthbar but he said "Ugh.. i struck... not even once?"|| Does that confirm a no hit fight?

[ocean ibex]

yes

[elfin forge]

maybe armor/dodges though? not sure

[ocean ibex]

he has 2 of those, in fact

[elfin forge]

1. High first shot damage against crowds of enemies.
2. Constant curse for origination
3. Good for combo builds where you might not use the buttons all the time, sorta like Heph
4. If you have a lot of % elsewhere, it will scale well.
5. Grievous blow gives you pseudo-crits, is extremely good

[ocean ibex]

Argh... I struck... not even once...?

and

Hngh... you... eluded me... at each and every turn...

[wintry grove]

Just do it right! Got it!

[elfin forge]

Your gameplay probably isn't too big of an issue, just some early buildcrafting

Like are you making use of Rerolls? Are you picking really nasty Vows like Hordes or Void? Are you using god keepsakes to give you more consistent beginnings?

[wintry grove]

Yes no yes

[ocean ibex]

the more i think about it, the more i dislike some of the arcana/keepsake balancing

[elfin forge]

Are you picking the appropriate core boons for your aspect? Are you using the right familiar for the job? Do you feel comfortable with your aspect at this current level of Frenzy

I mean I can TLDR a really strong build and you can probably crush it in a few attempts

[wintry grove]

I guess I need to decide am I going after the fear rewards or am I going to keep trying different builds with different weapons, because I mostly do the latter.

I should try to make an ideal build for my playstyle

[elfin forge]

Every aspect has 2 or 3 gods that they really like

[wintry grove]

Probably also should scale back rivals. I’m pretty comfortable at 2

[lone mirage]

do i take 30% dodge chance wispy wiles or aphro leg with glamour gain🙏

[elfin forge]

lego is so fun

[cerulean panther]

There's no wrong pick between those two.

[lone mirage]

is it harder to get infusion than a leg if im using excellence?

[elfin forge]

legendary is much rarer I think

[lone mirage]

hmmmm

taking leg cus fun but im going to die

[elfin forge]

it'll be fine you probably get daze which is basically dodge

[lone mirage]

wait on em 4 cronos, stage 2, is there like a barier in the middle cus may have gotten 1shot bcs i was in a time stop thing right at start of stage 2 when he does his one shots

i might just be schizo tho

[elfin forge]

yeah there is

he does 3 back to back Instakills, with a time bubble on top of him, and in the middle after the first

[lone mirage]

fair i didnt realise

[elfin forge]

it's to punish people that exit the first instakill right away trying to kill him

I call it the troll bubble

[lone mirage]

was just trying to get to the next safe zone tho😭

[elfin forge]

all the safe zones follow like, an arc around the bottom so I always just walk around the south side

[lone mirage]

k thanks for tip havnt tried him on em 4 before that

[elfin forge]

the new phase is the wack part, though it might be better now I haven't done the new one yet

it got patched this week

[vestal grotto]

quick build for aspect of pan for this update?

[elfin forge]

Hestia special I think? They patched the omegaspecials to be faster to dodge out of now, so I think ospec can be viable

[vestal grotto]

are burns really that viable?

[elfin forge]

yes indeed

they drain very fast right now, so you basically jsut want to rack up as much as possible, which is best done with fast little hits

Hestia and Poseidon fit similar niches imo. Poseidon got nerfed for Pan, and Hestia got buffed, so Hestia steps up to the plate.

[vestal grotto]

i start a new save every big update but i honestly don't look at the patch notes lmao so i rlly dont know what's rlly good on weapons

i'll try a hestia run rn ty

[mossy yoke]

What boons are people running with hel? I dont normally use skull but id like to do the prophecy

[brazen ore]

ares special seems to be popular

[strong dawn]

Status on the special (Hera, Ares, Zeus etc)
Poseidon, Hesita, Zeus (maybe) on the attack

Hitch on the Ospecial is very strong.

[arctic fable]

Im doing my first run with hel right now

[mossy yoke]

Same

[arctic fable]

I've just got a lot of Aphrodite

Not sure if that's good

Buuuuuuuuuuuuut
it sure is fun

[tough pasture]

maybe I'm a goofball (quite likely) but I'm struggling massively with the typhon enemies (particularly the mini-bosses) in the palace...

They just feel like enemies designed to inflict a lot of damage quickly while a bunch of bs is happening around you and quickly chipping away health points.

Whereas I'm not losing any death defiances in the first 3 zones of the surface, the typhon enemies are just destroying me and eating up 2-3 death defiances before I even see typhon.

Any suggestions? I'm definitely struggling whenever I don't have the impervious hex.

How does one deal with the eye-typhon mini-boss? The rolling balls are just so freaking irritating.

[arctic fable]

Yeah, Their really hard
(Your not alone)

[tough pasture]

also, rip scorch in the newest update. holy fudge did scorch get nerfed big time or what?

[arctic fable]

I beat typhon with it easily so it didn't get nerfed heavily

[tough pasture]

And I have 2 major irritations about the typhon fight:

-the camera zooming-in to zooming-out to zooming-in completely messes with me. there's so much bs happening on screen that I can't tell where I am.

-the cyclones from typhon's mouth needs to be a different color. they blend in too well with the ground...

[arctic fable]

YES
I hate the cyclones too

[tough pasture]

did you have duos?

I used knives pan aspect with scorch special and it feels very weak compared to what i was getting before the newest update.

[tough pasture]

I think I might make a suggestion in the feedback channel. those cyclones need to be altered somehow to make them more visible.

[arctic fable]

Ok Yes. I've beaten him twice, once with like 3-4 duos and once with a build I call, Descura the witches Shotgun

[mossy yoke]

I won my first run with hel, thanks for the tips!

[bleak gale]

What even is the Sprint to use w Supay

[elfin forge]

hestia or poseidon I think

[zinc forge]

Is ark flash fixed this patch?

[willow phoenix]

Umm just hit the main body? Ngl usually the eye of typhon usually just dies so fast I don't even know what it's supposed to do lol. Use cast to slow the eyeball

[willow phoenix]

It works the last time I tried it

[zinc forge]

thanks!

[uneven palm]

The scorch numbers are down some from the Unseen patch but she still ticks 100/s so she’s still buffed generally.

[civic ocean]

Are you doing something like standing still at the end of an aspect of pan channel animation while a big ass eye is landing on your head

[lunar kiln]

have they fixed the omega special on skull with apollo legendary? i think its the only weapon left where that boon is bonked

[wispy perch]

i tried morrigan and it wasn't triggering the triad for me when i did attack, special, omega in that order and would stay stuck at two dots on enemies. is there something i'm missing?

[ocean ibex]

what dot wasnt on the enemy, top left or right?

[wispy perch]

right

[willow phoenix]

The special is missing

Maybe you missed it or channeled o special instead

[trim shoal]

I love morrigan, is there any way to make it viable for high fear? (I worry about aoe damage, which it lacks pretty severely)

[ocean ibex]

apollo attack

[trim shoal]

Ok I will try that ty

[crystal holly]

Hello! I need suggestions for anubis build. Tryina do 32 fear underworld.
Im thinking zeus and hestia. Any suggestions pls

[thin lintel]

Hot take: Elephant Rockets on Aspect of Shiva should be standard instead of a hammer upgrade

[brazen ore]

idk if this is a hot take, but i do agree

[lunar kiln]

anybody have luck getting a reg special build on shiva to work? i had elephant rockets + mega slow cooker and it felt like it was just tickling cerberus

[tough pasture]

No. I'm moving around quite a bit.

I'm a hades 1 vet and if there's one thing that has carried over to hades 2 it's the need for a lot button-mashing in the 4th zone.

I'm playing with 0 vows now and I'm annoyed by how much damage each enemy does and how fast the enemies are.

[civic ocean]

Oh sounds like you just gotta practice then, surface is pretty hard

[safe kettle]

i personally think for release they might nerf typhon damage ramp up

final phase he does like 60+, with more hitboxes on screen, its just so punishing if your build needs to stand still for .2 seconds

its just so absurd compared to chronos where every move is clearly communicated

[civic ocean]

Typhon is supposed to be much much harder than Chronos, and I don't think he does 60 with anything other than his chin right? And the chin move is like his go to if he hasn't chinned you and you're in range IIRC he is manipulatable? Might be wrong now tho

[safe kettle]

the super rapid ball spit too i believe

that move also has super high chance to double hit you

[civic ocean]

It is pretty funny watching that chin deal 180 with pain

120 sorry

[willow phoenix]

ngl I find rivals Typhon much easier than Chronos

[safe kettle]

i dont think it needs to be nerfed to chronos level, but i think “casuals” might quit the game at this difficulty

[civic ocean]

I think it depends, UR Typhon is easier to damage race, Chronos can be really hard to hit. And certain weapons do much better vs Typhon, like Momus, because Typhon never moves out of the way

But I think Chronos' raw numbers are weaker

[safe kettle]

my main issue is that when i get hit by typhon it just feels like it was because 75% of the arena is currently covered by hitboxes, not because i messed up a dodge

[civic ocean]

Hmm I used to feel that way too I am not sure I feel that way anymore about old typhon, UR typhon sure is a lot of hitboxes though

[safe kettle]

and the animations are so obtuse

[willow phoenix]

There's always god mode, and honestly I think Typhon's moves are easier to manage, even for Rivals

[civic ocean]

I don't like that the red balance on typhon is still off so you don't know how much scorch he has on him and the cyclones are hard to see

[safe kettle]

also the fight just SHAFTS melee

[heavy panther]

You're absolutely right on the cyclones
Visibility in the Typhon fight is bad, and then when you have Chronos splashing gold particles all over the screen it gets even worse

[willow phoenix]

melee makes it easier no? The front of Typhon's face is the safest spot. Even if you play range you're gonna want to be in his face anyway

[safe kettle]

yeah i agree the problem isnt neccesarily that the moves are too hard, but that its so hard to tell whats going on

[civic ocean]

Especially if you're not playing frenzy then the chin is easy to avoid I would imagine

[willow phoenix]

with frenzy 2 you can kinda I frame it, especially with divine dash

[safe kettle]

i hate chin, if you’re in an animation as it starts, it feels super random if you can dodge

[heavy panther]

the chin hitbox fairly consistently tags me when I dash straight down from it

[civic ocean]

I think its quite hard without div dash but you can also just predict it and move backwards if he has used a non chin move and he very rarely double chin

[heavy panther]

which I feel is new, I used to pretty cleanly avoid it

[civic ocean]

But I suppose I am biased heavily towards range weapons against typhon in my experience or builds like heph blasts which have a lot of runaround capability

[heavy panther]

he's just gonna hit you sometimes if you're melee, you gotta go in expecting to tank some things until you learn all his tells

[thin lintel]

In my experience the secret to both Typhon and Chronos is just good RNG

[safe kettle]

yeah i too just wanna play builds that have to engage as little as possible with the boss against typhon

chronos i have 0 issue playing pure melee axe or the like

[spiral wadi]

is 3rd phase chronos still able to dash twice in a row or was that removed?

[tall notch]

Wait he could do that??? Who does he think he is, Zagreus? 😭

[spiral wadi]

yea i remember many runs getting hecked over cuz chronos would sometimes double dash while i was slowed down

i didn't have it happen my first run this patch tho

[tall notch]

I think I won't touch r4 until I get comfortable at 58 fear

[spiral wadi]

mm id recommend getting familiar with rival 4, then frenzy 1 and 2 before getting that high

i remember trying to get thru rivals when they were introduced with frenzy still maxed and then polyphemus and scylla taught me i shouldn't be a masochist

[green drift]

Did this patch nerf pan's on-hit application? Just did a run and it applied like 4 times with 10 hits, felt bad

[spiral wadi]

as in proc abilities? i recall poseidon specifically got a cooldown inbetween splash kb

[tall notch]

I mean 58f is old 50f (which I'm somewhat used to) with r3. I think that's a decent starting point

[spiral wadi]

oo i see, ya fair

[green drift]

ye, tried it with poseidon and felt like twice worse than last patch

[tall notch]

Is poseidon attack/special still good on anything with the icd? @spiral wadi

[safe kettle]

finally got my 8 typhon kill with the new staff, honestly really like it

carried by 50 min damage at the final shop

i think the staff is really solid though because it lets you play super safe

it's a proc machine too and those always have great potential

even though it nerfs my favorite playstyle i can understand they are trying to avoid weapons that can play as passive as special rail from the first game

[tame stirrup]

I using Supay weapon, my special is Demeter freezing orb, then my cast is Zeus , then i got DUO boon which is freezed unit will get lightning , then if later on i got offer replacement on Demeter Cast and i replace it, will electric still zap on frozen unit? (i don't carry zeus boon after replace it)

[willow phoenix]

The boon will give zap frozen units regardless of what your other boons are, you just need to have a freeze source

[small river]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsDc4e0pka8
May i present to you The Hera Storm Build, featuring Death Ray

[safe kettle]

i feel like at above 100% of the ares buff you just become uncontrollably fast

[livid surge]

What are the two trinkets adjecent to Medea's

I have not unlocked them yet, are they unlockable or maybe locked till full release ?

[safe kettle]

left and right? that would be heracles and circe

[livid surge]

oh

[safe kettle]

heracles is ok at rank 3

[livid surge]

Will try to get them, thank you :3

[safe kettle]

i miss old chaos trinket from hades 1

[livid surge]

Expiring random buffs is not that fun I suppose

[safe kettle]

yeah same reason i'm not that into icarus trinket

like the other god trinkets i can equip for a region, get some guaranteed boons, and buff up one and then be done with it

btw i read that they adjusted how godsent upgrades work, and from what i saw this run on the special hex, it seems godsent upgrades now don't replace a purple

[livid surge]

I think it is possible with hammer trinket lvl3 is that you can get it in the fields of meadows or Prometheus's biome, and its buff would last until Final boss

[safe kettle]

which is probably a huge buff to godsent hex focus runs

[livid surge]

even if you switch it at the final biome

Not sure with chaos's trinket didn't upgrade it yet

[safe kettle]

random hammers just arent that good imo still

yeah some hammers can work well wihtout your build being based around their ability

[livid surge]

maybe it would be fun if it had like a reroll mechanic or used to swap each encounter unless you choose to keep the "upgrade" for a specific number of encounters

[safe kettle]

like all the ones that make the ability hit armor for like +250ish

but if i'm playing special i dont need attack power

same reasons i basically never buy the anvil, especially since it could take my build defining hammer

[livid surge]

the anvil is great if you got unlucky with hammer upgrades

I think that's the only reason why it is there

[safe kettle]

but even unlucky hammer upgrades you can usually work around and build something with

like yeah maybe i didnt roll any special hammers on coat but if i have double attack hammers i can build for attack instead

[bleak gale]

Wait The Unseen is seen as bad? I can't play without it lol

[ebon grove]

It's a lot of grasp for what it does.

Especially when even a common cardio gain out performs it.

[brave dove]

you give up a lot of power to take the unseen

[willow phoenix]

It's pretty much not worth the cost, you can replace it with a gain boon much easier than other 5 cost card

[brave dove]

it's okay early game when you're still figuring out boons but in terms of like, power relative to grasp and relative to what boons can give you it's kind of nothing

5 grasp could be Origination or Huntress + Lovers

[bleak gale]

I've actually been avoiding the rerolls (except for the boon one) to use The Unseen lol

I guess I'm just paranoid about not being able to get a good Gain boon

[brave dove]

Boatman is +2 boons if you're not taking vow of debt

even beyond it activating the Fates

[brave dove]

the thing is that even the bad gain boons are roughly equal to the Unseen, basically

epic glamour gain is identical, even

[jagged zinc]

On weapon like Shiva, Hel, ... where you need to use a huge amount of magick to be functional, it's definitely worth imo

[dim kelp]

This is what The Unseen is for, I think. It’s insurance against finding yourself completely out of magick, which definitely can happen even with a “good” gain boon if you’re not managing your max magic or the proc conditions well. Learning to play without The Unseen gives you access to more potential power, but you need to be effectively engaging with more systems to utilize it. There’s a lot of decision-making to balance in this game, and The Unseen serves as a pressure valve if you can’t or don’t want to deal with the full complexity of managing magick

[dim kelp]

Hecuba is a good choice for a magick-hungry weapon. Her boost to max magick and the bubble of magick she can dig up should be enough to get you to the point where you find a suitable gain boon, especially if you’re playing with the full reroll corner and can roll to get gain offered by your preferred god

I don’t know where her initial bonding is likely to fall compared to arcana progression, but I would think she’d be available to most players before they unlocked hidden aspects

[dim kelp]

You’ll have an easier time getting a good gain boon with more rerolls, assuming you’re being thoughtful about boon priority, and not doing things like delaying getting a gain boon you really need because something else was offered at Epic. Origination becomes easier with more rerolls too, again assuming you’re being thoughtful and proactive about getting curses

[brave dove]

I've actually done a bunch of omega builds without ever picking up a gain boon because sometimes I am not paying attention to denial gaming

you can just stack a tonne of max magicka and it's mostly fine for a lot of weapons, chronos is the only toughie

[dim kelp]

Yeah, it’s definitely doable, but your efficiency of magick use makes a big difference

On a totally different topic, I’ve been using Excellence over Origination with Unseen-edition Persephone, mostly for dopamine reasons. But I’ve been wondering whether it might actually work out to be a comparable amount of damage

[grand prism]

When you have Grisly Gain + other plasma talents, does the plasma that procs from those other talents also restore mana?

[steel sequoia]

i miss toula being useful

[brave dove]

It doesn't, it's +5% legendary chance

[willow phoenix]

yes

[dim kelp]

I was mostly thinking of the increased Rare+ chance. I’m not clear whether that also boosts Epic chance, the change in wording from the Unseen update suggests that it might?

Regardless, Persephone granting a random amount of Pom levels should make Excellence better with Persephone than it is with other weapons, because higher-rarity boons scale up better, right? Probably that’s not enough to outpace origination’s potential, but I wondered how close it was

[brave dove]

No, not even close

and iirc higher rarity boons actually scale slightly worse with poms, usually

Huntress or Night + Lovers or Artificer is the competitor to Origination

Excellence might be worth it on specifically Hel because King Tide is absurd and Hel clears so quickly you don't get much use out of Origination

[dim kelp]

This should probably go in the feedback channel instead

[plucky otter]

Ah yes, thank you.

[safe kettle]

which is unseen?

[brave dove]

magicka regen card

[safe kettle]

i cant play without it

i just feel without it magicka is always a gameplay limiter except for very specific cases

[stuck turret]

It just feels a lil weaker compared to some other magick regen boons, understandable
But it doesn't feel worth the 5 grasp it takes to have it on

[safe kettle]

i guess if you take the grasp limiting curses you really gotta look at every point

and i guess something like axe can live without it?

but i cant imagine playing cloak without it unless you can guarantee one of like 2 magicka boons

imo the only selfsufficient magicka boons are hestia and aphro

everything else require giant pool or is hera and i just feel like hera is always a trap

if you dont manage perfectly it just kills you

[brave dove]

basically no one runs void, the problem is that unseen is just way weaker than alternative grasp options

and it gives you approximately the same magicka as epic glamour gain, which is one of the weaker gain boons in terms of magicka income

zeus gain is probably the best for you if you're having issues managing hera

but also I suspect you're just like, not taking max magicka if hera requires 'perfect' management? once you get to like, 150-200 magicka hera basically won't run out even at common unless you're using one of the super magicka heavy hidden aspects or like, possessed array

and you can get that with like, persistence + hecuba

Unseen is a useful crutch arcana for newer players but once you can manage magicka with gain boons and similar it's just kind of strictly inferior to boatman and origination as a 5-cost

which isn't to say you MUST STOP TAKING IT NOW but if you find yourself not needing it as much you will get a lot more bang for your buck out of origination or the reroll corner or huntress + artificer

[safe kettle]

because i run unseen i skip basically every magicka reward

i just get enough from the +5 every x rooms

and i can just take pure combat boons, my favorite magicka boons are ares, and aphro because they do more than just magicka

and hestia just means spam weapons can spam omegas forever

[terse hemlock]

Glamour gain yea. Easy origination proc

[brave dove]

glamour gain is solid but I wouldn't call it like, great regen

hestia is decent but mostly situational because you need to mix in a lot of regular attacks

true omega spam can genuinely just only use those and that wants like, hera, zeus, apollo

but you can also just skip a gain and work with your room to room regen and like 200 max magicka

...mostly something that happens to me because vow of denial locking me out of gain boons happens not infrequently

I wouldn't really advise it, but it's possible

[tough pasture]

Same. I take unseen as well at the expense of origination and other combinations. IIRC it was buffed from its earliest iterations.

[safe kettle]

glamor with unseen is great

[quartz parrot]

So wait is supay still good and if it is give me a build for it to prove it (also can i get an anubis build)

[safe kettle]

i asssume 50 min damage is king on anubis

as well as all the onhit procs

scorch, chain lightning, probably artemis arrows

[tough pasture]

also, certain aspects (like shiva) is better playd with mouse + keyboard.

I feel the same way about taking lightning lance - the zeus cast. aiming on the controller is just difficult and hectic with all the other action happening on screen.

[safe kettle]

also i feel like hera attack is good on anybis

[tough pasture]

haven't tried it. i'll give it a run...

[safe kettle]

since its a gigantic aoe hitch goes hard

[safe kettle]

used it on my first anubis run and its so strong at room clearing with that

especially if you can double up with the hitch death trigger

[glass bone]

I have heard that Scorch is good on Anubis attack.

[jagged zinc]

· Hestia: Scorch Curse can no longer deal Critical damage or similar, nor is affected by Air Quality (Zeus)

just be careful about this

[glass bone]

Idk how good it is on Anubis, but one that I thought to perhaps be hilarious is using Apollo Attack, plus Soulfilled Ankh for a gigantic ranged AoE attack, wherein then you can spam special.

[willow phoenix]

or you can just put Apollo on special then spam the O special

Anubis O special is very strong

[tough pasture]

is that before or after the new patch?

[trim shoal]

I like to use glamour gain on axe and blades (especially morrigan) to trigger Origination with another condition from my attacks or cast such as freeze

[safe kettle]

yeah you want the min damage for anubis and stuff like artemis arrows/ chain lightning

[glass bone]

I feel like it’s nearly impossible to go wrong with Anubis attack boons (nearly, because of Hephaestus.). Like I don’t think Freeze is the best on Attack since it could instead go on Cast, but it works.

[maiden notch]

hmm anubis attack ticks don't trigger poseidon's splash?

[maiden notch]

does each tick apply the scorch? bc if it's like poseidon and it's only when they're first hit by it that's gonna be weak af.

[glass bone]

I believe it is each tick, though I will have to double check to be 100% sure. All I can say with 100% confidence, is Scorch attack got me my first 32 Fear clear, so it can’t be that weak.

[maiden notch]

hmmmm I think I hit a bug

I'm in a run rn and I'm sometimes seeing the splash and sometimes not

[trim shoal]

Last time I played Anubis it applied each tick

[maiden notch]

I'ma record my next encounter so I can double check myself

[uneven palm]

Scorch works, Poseidon is real buggy

sometimes it works with waves each tick as expected, other times you get nothing at all

With Anubis, I mean

[trim shoal]

Maybe that

[maiden notch]

yeah it's definitely not going off consistently. Was about to ask what the keybinding to report a bug was haha, thanks

[sick tide]

If you’re playing Supay and spamming omega specials with blitz and arc flash, does blackened fleece provide any value, or does most of the damage coming from blitz mean the percent bonus doesn’t help?

[tall notch]

these ospecials deal 20 base damage per hit, % scaling on that really doesn't do a whole lot

[sick tide]

Perfect, thanks!

And h wait, just to double check if I gave air quality does that change?

I don’t actually know a ton about base Dante values across weapons to compare

[brave dove]

iirc it's dash attack poseidon doesn't work on

[brave dove]

air quality is at the end of damage calculation

[uneven palm]

I've tried both and it's just kinda random whether it works or not. Mostly doesn't.

[quartz parrot]

So i didnt get my supay anwser so im asking again

[timber pawn]

https://youtu.be/34AZRZNmLE8

[uneven palm]

nerfed to absolute uselessness smh /s

[civic ocean]

I can't wait to get to supay

I am on Blades now after cooking two builds on staff but Supay looks heckin fun

Blades I am mostly uninspired

[loud moat]

Blades are fun, especially with Artemis. Go Ares for the attack and luck into an Artemis Crit build, then grab Grievous Blow. You’ll be hitting BIG numbers

Mel Blades are a little uninspired I will say. Just flat backstab damage.

[civic ocean]

Yeah that's an older build for sure but I feel like getting ares attack grievous blow and crit is like...pretty weapon agnostic? Like I could do that on like Mel Staff for the giga high power and stuff.

I think I will go with Mel Blades Heinous Affront and Freezer Burn Pan again

[loud moat]

I feel like there’d be more versatility if Trick Knives were an inherent property of the Knives, maybe just Mel aspect?

[civic ocean]

Trick knives are pretty op yeah

[loud moat]

Yea it can work for most any build I suppose. It’s the Artemis 50% crit chance and the invulnerability frames that help you land them that I like.

As as I know a Crit can also Greivous blow too.

Unsure if success rate effects Artemis Crit chance on the aspect specifically

[civic ocean]

Does anyone know if Brave Face impacts armor damage or not

[timber pawn]

Aspect has 100% crit rate when it's up so it doesn't need success rate

[timber pawn]

Not sure but I would assume it does.

[loud moat]

Is it 100? I though it increase the chance on the next 9 strikes to 50% crit chance

I can check later today but that’s what I’m pretty sure it is

[civic ocean]

There's gotta be some kind of strong build with the heph armor scaling right

[plucky light]

hey anyone can help me make aspect of pan work?
it feels like the charge time for the special is too great .
i always go poseidon on special but the dmg isnt there

[brave dove]

this is how knives becomes what reddit thought supay was

I would say that a perfect heinous affront trick knives build is arguably the strongest build in the game

[loud moat]

Yea they suffer from being too good. Even in an Artemis run if I see trick knives, I’m clicking them.

[civic ocean]

I am experimenting with using Eternity on Pan specifically for this reason, but a big piece of advice would be to just throw fewer knives I think?

[brave dove]

artemis is incredible with trick knives wdym 'even'

[loud moat]

Not saying it isn’t, just that on the surface Artemis would have you think it’s Attack focused

[brave dove]

the crits apply to strikes

[loud moat]

Trick knives easily pushes you into building up your special

[plucky light]

i started doing that, but it feels weird that upgradign the weapon makes it feel worse, since oyu have to manually cancel it

[quartz parrot]

Okay i think its bad /j

[civic ocean]

Trick knives didn't used to apply crits from artemis iirc

[loud moat]

Yes I know. But generally, my first instinct on an Artemis Run is to grab an attack. Special is lower priority. Once trick knives are in the picture suddenly every option is looking really good

[civic ocean]

Not too much else to say then really just make sure you keep distance, use freeze or rap ring if you need to, and look for hermes and chaos' cast speed buffs

[brave dove]

knives should be using special to cancel their combo before the flurry in a lot of situations anyway

even if you don't get trick knives it's a pretty substantial portion of your damage

but yes, trick knives is probably the strongest hammer in the game except for like, maybe possessed array?

[plucky light]

hermes cast speed is only for omega cast isnt it?

[brave dove]

he has a different one called racing thoughts

[loud moat]

DPS wise on Heinous Affront, is it better to have Blitz on special or attack?

And Vicious Flourish or Strike?

[brave dove]

ideally you want ares on special and zeus on attack and then you also need apollo revenge

the problem of course is that zeus on special and ares on attack is just better if you don't roll trick knives

[civic ocean]

Yes sorry I say cast speed wrongly sometimes, I mean racing thoughts

[loud moat]

So you can proc it from a distance I suppose. Up close you’ll be applying both curses simultaneously regardless

[brave dove]

apollo revenge is what makes trick knives heinous affront stupid because you proc it every time a special hits a new enemy

[plucky light]

does racing thoughts increase special omega charge? i thought it was only normal
ares blood drops also should work then?

[timber pawn]

I realize I didn't elaborate here but hopefully this puts into perspective that supay is still quite strong. Hestia sprint is still viable as well

[loud moat]

Plasma does increase omega charge speed yes.

[brave dove]

racing thoughts affects all omega charge speed

[brave dove]

...I should try a meme ares morrigan build...

[civic ocean]

Ares on special is good enough if you are heinous gaming.

The hard part at higher diffs is usually bosses so I like to put zeus on cast

[plucky light]

i dont know i feel like the dmg just isnt there on even my fully charged specials
maybe another boon for special than pos?

[civic ocean]

Poseidon got patched yeah its quite bad

Theres a cap so every hit of pan is not waving

Try hestia with demeter on attack for freezer burn bombs

[plucky light]

i feel like hestia just works anyway with everything 😄

[civic ocean]

Truly what a glow up auntie has had

[safe kettle]

honestly i just hate the homing knives because at best you get one homing special per cast

at that point you still kinda need the “shoot straight” hammer and then your aspect is just extra knives

this wasnt such a problem in 1 because the homing aspect for bow was homing on a move that you could just spam

[tall notch]

did you just make a wabs reference in patch 10

[civic ocean]

I make content for the oldheads I had a genuine terror flashback when I saw "increased special power" on a descura patch note

[tall notch]

and look how fast it took them to nerf it already lol

[civic ocean]

Immediately lmao

[spiral wadi]

im not sure, ig they felt like pan splash + froth woulda been too much?

[tall notch]

to be fair froth is a very powerful curse

[civic ocean]

Im still rattled no more Air Fryer

[spiral wadi]

ye big fan of froth

[tall notch]

so i can see why they nerfed pos multihit to compensate

but then I feel like they buff dmg?

[civic ocean]

Maybe its good on like coat where it still hits fast but gets under the icd

[tall notch]

coat dash attack already hits the icd

[civic ocean]

Lame

Poseidons cores continue to be very weak sadge

[spiral wadi]

insane

[civic ocean]

Except for FROTH RING and breaker on supay

[spiral wadi]

i really wish they made it so omega attacks/specials made you not move because wow that thing is slippery and i hate not being able to attack if i have to stand in a specific spot when i could be attacking, especially chronos

(black coat)

esp in a movement based game, slippery feels too weird to control

[tall notch]

I may have played too much need for speed but I actually like the slippery movesets on weapons, makes me feel like im drifting

[civic ocean]

Coat drift is fun, agreed not vs chronos tho

[spiral wadi]

hmm fair, prob just have to get used to it then

[tall notch]

east do you remember how slippery patch 1 torches were

[civic ocean]

Yeah

[spiral wadi]

they should make a hammer for it (me specifically)

[tall notch]

with old dash too, i was straight up cruising past rooms with that combo

[civic ocean]

Goofy weapons those torches remember how the attack couldnt break vases

[tall notch]

good thing aphro rush was best start for air fryer

[spiral wadi]

how long is weak duration now, i see it going away very fast now

[tall notch]

"at least 1 second" and what at least means is up to your interpretation i think

[spiral wadi]

LOL real

i feel like it's near 2sec but well ig there's the funny poseidon aphro duo

[tall notch]

my guess would be that it adds onto the duration instead of refreshing, but thats purely vibes based and ive not looked at the code

[spiral wadi]

oh interesting, ill have to actually get aphro dash then for once

[tall notch]

aphro passes the vibe check so i take her dash any time it shows up

[winter wind]

Is Heph Legendary boon the only way to boost triad damage with morrigan?

[plush vapor]

theres 2 hammers that affect the triad

[spiral wadi]

real, always good for me to find reasons to diversify my builds

[plush vapor]

one does+222 dmg and one gives a chance for it to hit twice

[plush vapor]

other than those hammers and heph i think there's nothing

[winter wind]

Thanks!

[civic ocean]

Triad isn't affected by global?

[timber pawn]

Correct

[tall notch]

i wish triad was affected by air quality

[brazen ore]

REAL

[civic ocean]

Goes from 777 to 50

[tall notch]

real

[simple swan]

Gamers, how in the heck do i build the black coat? Im trying to clear my testament of night for it and i cannot seem to come up with an effective build for the life of me

[tall notch]

do you have the aspect of nyx, gamer

[simple swan]

I do indeed

[glass bone]

Question; what parts of Anubis attack is affected by Reckless Attack?

[tall notch]

play nyx and start with hestia special. that's it. that's the build

the rest you can kind of freestyle

[simple swan]

Nightspawn into special spam?

[civic ocean]

Also for all coats stuff like scorch and static shock is pretty pog on the dash attack which hits multiple times and even more with its hammer

[simple swan]

I will try this

[glass bone]

This was from the patch before Unseen, but I had used a whole bunch of Zeus boons on Mel aspect to get up to 24. Probably not the strongest coat setup now though.

[tall notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8EbzKUJ6bk here is a vod for some showcase of the gameplay

[tall notch]

zeus isn't something I actively build around because of how good scorch is but if he shows up I am 100% taking him

[civic ocean]

Is 58 fear no rivals 4 no void

[tall notch]

yea, old 50f with r3

[civic ocean]

I can get behind that, r4 is some bs

Getting omnislashed by an old man is no fun

[brazen ore]

ty for the vod. I was trying nyx last night and I get absolutely bodied by my muscle memory going "ooh, omega circle full, better not dash or it'll go away"

[glass bone]

Sorry if this is considered spam, but I did want to ask about this again if that’s okay. (I.e. what of the initial attack, the circle, the omega wave, and/or the lone shades are affected by Reckless Abandon; which is the one that makes all damage randomly fixed to 5, 55, or 555)

Yes it’s limited to surface, but this feels like the right kind of nonsense to reach 62 “easily”. Because if every single hit has some 5% chance of dealing 555 damage… Typhon could be bursted down quick enough to beat the timer (and your own health’s race to 0).

[civic ocean]

What is the average attack damage of Reckless?

It can’t be that high right

[glass bone]

If I remember correctly, the math is 50% 5 damage, 5% 555 damage (changeable by rarity), and the rest is 55 damage.

[civic ocean]

Oh that sounds really really bad

It must be different

[brazen ore]

Other way around between 5 and 55

[ocean ibex]

50% 55, 5% 555, 45% 5

[glass bone]

Oh. My mistake

[brazen ore]

Averages out to like 57 or something

[civic ocean]

😦

[brazen ore]

Its not good

[civic ocean]

Vs Worry Free the ultimate player buff no panicking

[glass bone]

I want to make it work now… something like… Success Rate + Air Quality, and Scorch Attack.

[civic ocean]

Air Quality doesn’t work with scorch anymore

[brazen ore]

Success rate doesn't buff it nearly as much as you'd hope sadly

[glass bone]

No. Air Quality and Success Rate for Reckless Abandon.

[brazen ore]

And i dont know if it works with aq, would have to check

[civic ocean]

Yeah it would

Since reckless is setting the base it probably gets affected by % increases

They didn’t fix how AQ and Hitch work right

[brazen ore]

Dont believe so

[glass bone]

With Air Quality and Reckless Abandon alone, the average damage should be around 77.75 per hit.

That’s at a common rarity without Success Rate btw

[ocean ibex]

absolutely btokrn

[civic ocean]

What is anubis’ base damage per hit

[glass bone]

20

So here I am thinking “What if you used Reckless Abandon on Anubis, because the circle, omega wave, and shades all have chances of hitting big?”

[civic ocean]

Small note with air quality is that assuming you get the free wind from the shade, that is five wind boons you need to get

Or four and aq itself sorry

[tall notch]

can HAHA YES still copy the +2 elements from narcissus?

[civic ocean]

Dionysus and narc can’t be on the same run

But I believe so yes

[glass bone]

Alternatively… maybe we go full gambling for that one specific Chaos boon.

[civic ocean]

On the surface? Why?

[glass bone]

You gain +3 Air for an Epic boon.

[civic ocean]

Sure but like all of this for 77 damage an attack!?

[glass bone]

Yes, this is a complete RNG nightmare, but at this point I just want to see how far this can be pushed.

[uneven palm]

Reckless Abandon is fun on Hel I bet

[glass bone]

Besides. 64 Heat is considered an RNG nightmare in Hades 1. “It’s even funnier the second time!” /j

[brazen ore]

I actually think it is worse than people think bc i believe its applied when AQ is, so global damage/% based buffs wont affect the number

you aren't doing 77 average damage that gets buffed by origination or anything

[glass bone]

Ok, on second thought, this probably isn’t worth it on Anubis. Omega Wave deals 65 damage per hit.

[tall notch]

east you are the last person to speak about a build being too hard to assemble it's not plausible in a run 😭

[glass bone]

And with Origination or basically any attack boon (if it applies to the wave also, which it should), that’s more than the average, unless you hit the 555 spike.

[brave dove]

if you want reckless abandon to work use anubis and take air quality, that's kind of all there is to it IMO

[glass bone]

Yeah, that’s what we’re talking about

[brazen ore]

Cause the value it outputs is reported damage not base damage

[glass bone]

And despite my enthusiasm, I am getting a bit discouraged that this won’t be worth it still in High fear.

[brave dove]

you're hitting with both that and the regular attack at the same time though

[glass bone]

I know.

I’m torn. I need to try this out in runs I think.

[brave dove]

genuinely I think it's fine I think you can clear 32 with it easily

[brazen ore]

I dont think it would be worth it at low fear lol but it'd be fun to try. Like it depends on what you think worth it is

[brave dove]

like, it's just an air quality anubis build - which is already good - and then you slap reckless abandon on top

[glass bone]

I was suggesting this be used at 62. As in, this would be the nonsense RNG infested strategy to reach 62+.

[tall notch]

anything that relies on air quality to work isn't plausible in high fear tbf

[brazen ore]

I think air quality itself is pretty hard to get off the ground at 62 no?

[tall notch]

its 5 air and actually getting the infusion

[brave dove]

on the surface it is, anyway

UW you could hit narcissus elements gift

but then there's no reckless abandon

[tall notch]

yeah narc really does a lot for aq builds. that one can still be doubled by poseidon right

[brave dove]

I have no idea I have not taken sea star in like 300 runs

[elfin forge]

back in 55 fear you'd have like, 10 boons maybe for a surface run?

[brave dove]

yeah AQ anubis is a really greedy build

blitz attack, static shock, demeter or aphro cast, demeter t2 cast, double strike and air quality

and you also need something decent on your special and corresponding secondaries

you don't need a gain but you really do want one

[brazen ore]

And at 62 with denial and everything, taking demeter would be kinda rough in terms of desperately trying to assemble the number of air elements needed

[brave dove]

and you need to take a bunch of magicka to deal with hubris and static shock as well

[glass bone]

Would it be worth it to take Unseen in this hypothetical?

[brave dove]

yeah, it's just you can't pass it up because demeter gusts pop off with AQ

Absolutely 100% not

the reroll corner is what makes vow of denial not hell on earth so you can't give that up, and while yeah you can totally drop origination on AQ anubis...

[brazen ore]

For sure, just ig thinking about how plausible it would even be to make this work

[brave dove]

you're not gonna take Unseen over Lovers/Artificer + Night

[glass bone]

So then what’s needed is a seed with near perfect Ephyra RNG.

[brave dove]

oh it's a fine build just, AQ anubis is not for 62

you can run it at 50

[tall notch]

For anubis im vibing hard with starting hera for born gain and spamming omegas

[brave dove]

if I don't start hestia or zeus I just kinda die

[brazen ore]

I dont like the omega attack on anubis very much or do u mean omega special

[glass bone]

Then what may eventually beat 62/67? (Or what has already)

[brazen ore]

I wanna get up and try it out now but i have my kitty cat on my lap

Probably medea? She doesnt need much

Idk if anyones done it yet tho or what they did it with, i just know medea's good bc you don't need a lot to get it off the ground

[glass bone]

Then the other thing I’m thinking of, is which of the two routes is easier at that high of a fear?

I’m guessing Surface because of all the major rewards at the start, and the fact that the rivals on surface probably are easier? (Despite from what I have heard about Thessaly being a nightmare).

[brazen ore]

not a high fear player myself, but i would have also assumed surface just bc of getting a build online faster and knowing which room layouts in ephyra are faster. But not sure if thessaly changes that equation

(Or what healing effects get around vow of scars anymore? Cause charity bottle used to and that was UW only, but idk if it does anymore and if that's a consideration at all)

Oh a chinese player just did 62f on surface with hel apparently

[elfin forge]

so that means anubis, pan, morrigan, supay, hel at 62f done now

[tall notch]

I think nyx is genuinely capable of 62f but I'm not feeling like putting in the hours to learn r4 gramps

Eventually i may but for now 58f is the sweet spot for difficulty

[elfin forge]

they're still using antler in summit 62f huh

also holy cow this chinese player is goated

[brave dove]

I would say UW but not by much

unrivaled chronos levels the odds a lot

but there's still the basic issue of the timer and regular rooms are much harder on the surface

[brazen ore]

Its absolutely wild. Im real curious about how they got the level 10 scorch they did tho

[civic ocean]

Im a little sad that Flood Gain isnt good enough without Unseen IMO, and Grisly Gain seems so much worse than mortal gain

It really does feel like if you want to spam omegas it’s like hera only unless you have some strange circumstances

[brave dove]

Zeus? Demeter?

Poseidon is fine you just have downtime

[brazen ore]

Flood gain is pretty good imo. Is demeter good now?

[brave dove]

demeter's is good at high rarity

[brazen ore]

I see, I see

[civic ocean]

Don’t think the standing stuff that zeus and demeter make you do really jives with the fights I would need it in but maybe with high enough max mana you can chill during a phase transition

[willow phoenix]

Flood Gain is pretty good but kinda rarity dependent imo, at common it's pretty short

[brave dove]

if I can find moments to use demeter gain on f2 unrivaled chronos I think it's fine for general use :v

it recharges fully in 1 second with some rarity or poms

[willow phoenix]

Tranquil's much better now since the delay is only 0.5s

[civic ocean]

The guy who has a move that makes you literally stand in one place, eh

[tall notch]

if you start hecuba you'll often only start needing your gain come hecate, so you have all of erebus to prepare a build

[brave dove]

idk what you mean by 'standing' with zeus, pick up is instant

[brave dove]

in... phase... 3?

[brazen ore]

i will try it out, the agony that used to be old demeter gain gives me war flashbacks so i havent taken it since the change

[brave dove]

I won't grab it at common, fwiw

[elfin forge]

I wonder what r chronos is like now

[willow phoenix]

pretty samey

[elfin forge]

what did the changes do?

[civic ocean]

Definitely seems worth it to iust spend an Oceanus keepsake for born gain

[brazen ore]

I dont usually love omega heavy builds so honestly im a glamor gain truther

[willow phoenix]

the adjustments are only for frenzy 2 afaik

[tall notch]

tbh you can often silver wheel oceanus and give yourself a little bit more time

[elfin forge]

Chronos: adjusted various behaviors; adjusted hitbox of Swipe attack; tempus no longer heal when affected by Twilight Curse (Selene); now summons only a single Warden

[civic ocean]

Yeah but if im spamming omegas anyway I can take fine line as well right

[brave dove]

I think he can't rng his worst version anymore, there's some better internal cds on some stuff and yeah, miniboss phase got fixed

[willow phoenix]

oh yeah the single miniboss too, much better

[brave dove]

there were permutations of that phase that just Ended You

[brazen ore]

Tempus no longer kill you instantly also lol

[brave dove]

Nah that was because of a specific node they'd taken on Night Bloom.

The Tempus thing is just a nerf to Night Bloom

[brazen ore]

Thst node no longer kills u instantly is what i mean

[brave dove]

if you didn't take that node it was legitimately very strong for p3

[civic ocean]

Night Bloom is pretty bazonkers damage in general tho

[willow phoenix]

what does night bloomed tempus even do now then lol

[brazen ore]

I have gotten healed by a tempus before that i resurrected by night bloom but it was only doing it for a tiny amount

(Before the change I mean)

[civic ocean]

Well it heals Chronos for 90 so probably like 1% of your hp or smth?

[brazen ore]

Doesn't heal chronos?

[brazen ore]

It was doing it for like 1 or 2 a tick for me. Probably more noticeable if I wasn't like going silly with it and tanking him to kill him fast

[civic ocean]

Kind of excited to go for Charon now that prom flare doesn’t block cast

[willow phoenix]

tempus no longer heal when affected by Twilight Curse (Selene)
I'm assuming this means like it no longer heals you too? So it just stands there or what lol

[civic ocean]

Previously the sheeps were healing chronos iirc

[elfin forge]

sheep heal sheep heal

[willow phoenix]

oh i got night bloom and twilight curse mixed lol

[brazen ore]

Me too oopsies

[civic ocean]

Maybe ill try dem heal in the excellence momus build then if it’s good at higher rarity

Im not a huge fan of going hera or taking unseen to work with poseidon

[willow phoenix]

I wish they actually fixed Night Bloom on Typhon fight though, like it's still not doing any damage to Typhon

[willow phoenix]

I usually find at rare or epic it's fine since a lot of the encounters should be done by then, and you can burn through your own magick while waiting for the 2nd Flood Gain

the nice thing with Flood Gain is that you can never truly run out of magick unlike Hera

[spiral wadi]

flood gain's nice if ur actively paying attention to when u use ur omegas, unfortunately i am not so attentive

and the 8sec cd starts after the duration of flood gain

[elfin forge]

yeah I'm usually not doing omega, 3 attacks, omega

I wanna do omega spam all day every day usually

[civic ocean]

Oftentimes I will turn on flood gain and then have to avoid damage and then it is off again

[elfin forge]

if I am using omegas occasionally, then I'm just using it to proc Huntress lmao

[civic ocean]

So it is a headache and I have oomed myself enough times that I consider Unseen over Boatman

But if I can use Dem or Hera and swap back to boatman then my Ephyra goes more smoothly

[spiral wadi]

get early hermes gold boon 🐀

[safe kettle]

so i'm wondering if you people who dont use unseen, do you cut it at 30 max grasp or only once curses force you below?

and if you cut it at 30 what do you cut it for?

honestly i prefer the consistency of unseen over the potential of excellence

[brazen ore]

I just never use unseen ever even at 30. I use origination

[stuck turret]

theres other methods of mana gaining, like hecuba

[elfin forge]

I've never used unseen ever

[safe kettle]

i don't use origination because it pidgeonholes you

like you really gotta go for the double perma debuffs

[brave dove]

Very few people run Vow of Void, you cut Unseen because gain boons are better.

Your 2 5 grasps in a queen setup are usually boatman and origination.

[brazen ore]

ehh huh. Pigeonholes you into what?

i never have an issue getting origination tbh like i don't even try to get it. It just happens

Theres so many ways to trigger it

[safe kettle]

like i just love the consistency unseen gives

honestly i might consider cutting boatman for origination if i were to play origination

[elfin forge]

2 curses is pigeonholing? man, I'm doing runs with like 4 curses

[brave dove]

You can drop Origination in non-Queen setups, in which case you usually take one each of Lovers/Artificer and Huntress/Persistence/Night

[brazen ore]

I like my reroll corner haha

[safe kettle]

yeah you ofc get those runs, but sometimes you also get those big apollo hits

can i not post a screenshot here?

[brazen ore]

nah imgur it

[safe kettle]

it's not 2015 anymore

[elfin forge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1349278289042346008/1390093577685700658/Screenshot_2025-07-02_at_3.15.27_PM.png?ex=6868fb47&is=6867a9c7&hm=ec3e8d8ade548ef773edc86ae8a49708118f674bce4a6f0aa8c65c2bdc5c330b&

[brazen ore]

Well idk what else to tell you then lol. Post it in another discord and link

[safe kettle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/217019787727863810/1390763925171081236/image.png?ex=68697156&is=68681fd6&hm=2963a8d1f4ca11ce193041a1e0ce5b008c38fedad2cfe5aa7cab544d6d2df1f7&

[elfin forge]

here's the standard arcana spread, you can do some other stuff like lovers or eternity or artificer or something

messenger?

[safe kettle]

invuln is invuln

[tall notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/925113924855140417/1390764004380512466/2025071.JPG?ex=68697169&is=68681fe9&hm=633391117deafd2ba0f54335df6d3aded33ff8d9c5c6c8993152a9919389ee95& this is just a little 30f, but i think this works as a proof of concept for omegaspam anubis. i didnt even take night here which wouldve made a big impact

[brave dove]

That's not quite standard, drop wayward son and huntress for lovers and it is

[safe kettle]

i'm not good enough to drop wayward son

[tall notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/925113924855140417/1390764310099267748/image.png?ex=686971b2&is=68682032&hm=028458ef03b3f8eabb848f9732080fd829755880744e9f4855f0c0442150421c& heres the vows

[brave dove]

Suace's image, I mean

[brazen ore]

Idk there are so many ways to trigger it not even on attack/special. Cast, sprint, glamour gain. I've never really even had to think about triggering it unless I somehow ended up in a run where I was basically only getting one god for all the core

[safe kettle]

also if i drop unseen i lose moon

[elfin forge]

I think wayward huntress is more common for normies like me idk

[civic ocean]

If I am spamming omegas I used to play Unseen up to old 50 fear its like pretty good at getting consistent starts but its not good at getting one good run

[brave dove]

Wayward Son is excellent and a common adaptation, I was making a statement on 'the standard'

[elfin forge]

no scars 3, no pain 3, get bonked every once in a while in rooms

[civic ocean]

So it depends what you care abt

[brazen ore]

i mean u can play how u like, if u like unseen theres nothing bad about playing it, u just asked why people don't take it

[safe kettle]

yeah i love unseen because it enables omega builds without getting a really good magicka boon and magicka stacking

ofc if you wanna go really hard you want hestia

how memey is judgement

[elfin forge]

memey

[hot tendon]

Yo, is there a ruleset to how often, in what regions and how many in total hammers can spawn? And can you roll rewards to get hammer even if ruleset says no more hammers?

[safe kettle]

like it just seems like you just die on surface

[brave dove]

If it works for you it works, but there are reasons it isn't meta.

[safe kettle]

you probably have to start with the flat stat cards and pray for good rolls on first boss

but i guess you could the grasp penalties with it

[tall notch]

you can only have 1 hammer up to the third region, once you get to fields/olympus you can have 2. rolling rewards doesnt work but you can copy hammers with some stuff like the keepsake or echo

[brave dove]

Judgement exists exclusively for 64 and 65 fear runs in the meta.

[elfin forge]

it's like, 2 basically

[hot tendon]

thanks

so works similar to H1

[safe kettle]

good to know

[civic ocean]

If you only care about getting the one record clear then Excellence and Unseen are kind of objectively bad

[safe kettle]

unseen just makes the floor so much higher

[brave dove]

Vow of Void sucks no one uses it until every other Vow is maxed, for the most part.

[safe kettle]

you always have very reliable magicka for omegas from room 1

wait why does void give so little fear levels

[brave dove]

It gives a normal amount but it sucks, atm you are basically exclusively using Vow of Void if you thought 62 Fear was too easy.

it's just deeply uninteresting as a layer of difficulty and it feels awful

[safe kettle]

idk for such a harsh penalty only +1 for the first 3 levels is kinda brutal

[civic ocean]

I could see void being interesting at lower than 63+ with Air Quality builds

[brave dove]

Hordes is worse and before rivals got added the easiest form of 50 fear did use void

[brave dove]

why, other options add interactivity rather than taking it away

[civic ocean]

Idk it seems interesting but like you said its a bit boring to try

Like how much arcana can I cut

[last cape]

it's free fear if you're running judgement at least /j

[brave dove]

well, you're not wrong there, but judgement is not meta for any given fear level except those very specific ultra high ones

doesn't stop it being fun, don't get me wrong

[brazen ore]

Like I agree but also people can play suboptimally if they want. Im not gonna tell someone they have to use the meta if they really like unseen and moon, i dont really care lol, i was just like idk why youd ask a question and then argue with the answer

[safe kettle]

judgement is just too gambling

if you could choose like 1 or 2 of the arcanas it might be usable?

[last cape]

the /j means i'm joking, it's technically true but that doesn't mean you should do it lmao

[brave dove]

okay but moon is actually good

[civic ocean]

What is the meta like surely we are not like caring about 62 fear right

[brave dove]

you just use night to activate it, not unseen

[brave dove]

it varies on fear level but judgement is meta at none of them except for 64 and 65

[brazen ore]

yeah i did kinda mean the combination of those two not moon by itself

[hot tendon]

i wanted to try out pan, tried getting ranged cast with both hestia and zeus and the boon never rolled

[safe kettle]

am i not supposed to use selene to unlock the hidden coat aspect?

[brazen ore]

you can if you want, you don't have to

[brave dove]

selene is who unlocks it, if that's what you mean

[brazen ore]

I mean you have to talk to her, you don't havr to use her aspect when you do it.

[safe kettle]

yeah i can't gift her anymore and she just isnt giving it to me

[brazen ore]

Do you have at least one coat max rank and all other coat aspects unlocked

[safe kettle]

oh you need to max one of the aspects for the unlock

[brazen ore]

Yep yep

[safe kettle]

i guess that just auto happened for the other weapons

[brazen ore]

Yeah i didnt realize i had an axe at max rank until i unlocked nergal

[safe kettle]

i love coat but havent gotten around to max one

i have 2 max axes, as much as i think axe is by far the worst weapon, i love it

[ocean ibex]

axe is not close to being the worst weapon

[safe kettle]

axe just puts you too much in harms way with slow animations

[brazen ore]

axe is the one that meshes the worst with the way i like to play generally, which is different from being objectively bad

[ocean ibex]

charon and than are both fast aspects

[safe kettle]

oh yeah i dont think it's objectively the worst it just doesnt really fit me

[brazen ore]

i mean... they're fast for axe lol

[safe kettle]

like i loved arthur sword in h1 which was also slow but i feel that one gave you better defensive tools

[brave dove]

coat is the worst weapon, after that it gets debatable

[ocean ibex]

they are just generally fast aspects

[safe kettle]

i feel coat is nuts good

[brave dove]

but to be clear, people usually overstate how bad coat is

[safe kettle]

proc machine, has a block

[brave dove]

so much in this game is arbitrarily unblockable 😩

[safe kettle]

can play giga safe

[ocean ibex]

coat is pretty generally agreed upon to be the worst weapon right now

[brave dove]

like there has to be a weakest weapon and it is fairly inarguably coat, but coat is still like, fine other than maybe mel coat

[safe kettle]

yeah somehow the firedragon in olympus somehow can't be blocked

[woven bough]

What's currently the strongest morrigan build

[brazen ore]

That little red UNBLOCKABLE ‼️ makes me go absolutely crazy when i see it

[brave dove]

depends what hammers you got

[safe kettle]

mel coat isnt that bad tbh

[brave dove]

mel coat had its one good build gutted in the unseen update

[ocean ibex]

most everything that is unblockable is damage that comes from below

[brazen ore]

im like oh is it unblockable thank you for telling me now that i am stunlocked into it

[safe kettle]

20% speed is pretty damn good, honestly i think the meh one is nyx,

[brave dove]

Nyx is the strongest coat aspect by quite a bit

[safe kettle]

omegadash is cool and all but eh

[brazen ore]

nyx is good but the skill floor is a bit higher i think. At least for my dumb ass

[brave dove]

she can apply hestia specials and attacks to multiple enemies at once

selene's skyfall is legitimately good and the lance of ares build takes a while to come online but is probably the strongest final form of any coat build

[safe kettle]

lance of ares is pretty disgusting

[ocean ibex]

oattack ares? surely you dont take wounds on the special

[brave dove]

lance of ares is godsent skyfall

[ocean ibex]

yeah but you need ares boons to use it, which would mean you are taking him as your first god, which means you get a core boon as your first one

[safe kettle]

and now that godsents dont eat purples anymore godsents are much better

[hot tendon]

what do you usually play with aspect of moros? i've tried multiple builds but failed miserably

[safe kettle]

ares dash and magicka are really good though

[jagged zinc]

Wounds is op on ospecial wdym

it will fly on all enemies

[safe kettle]

yeah but like you want ospecial potential for the final bosses

[brave dove]

Yeah, it's not ideal. Cut Above is actually very good on coat, but you need to take his attack or special for grievous blow, it's part of why I say the build takes a while to come online, you tank your earlygame to get an egregiously strong lategame.

and when I say egregiously strong I have a timestamp: https://youtu.be/bqNko2fv20g?si=9MGHCMle3_ANTthH&t=1233

[safe kettle]

i actually played lance with apollo duo

and i think it applied to the swordfalls

[willow phoenix]

Ares special is not that bad, coat O special got buffed so the damage is decent. And you want to get Grievous Blow anyway

[jagged zinc]

final boss you have mix atk ospecial and op godsend it's enough

[brave dove]

wards 😩

[safe kettle]

i think the godsent change was great

it now never takes away upgrades right?

[brave dove]

the actual super-optimal play is to get both ares core and grievous blow in erebus and then purge the ares core

[brave dove]

Yeah, I like it, even if it keeps starting selene keepsake as kinda dead

[safe kettle]

tbh if you really are going hard on a hex you just take selene keepsake region 2

[brave dove]

If it turns out hexes are still underperforming at launch I think that's when they'll switch it so godsent nodes are always ther

[willow phoenix]

kinda sad zenith got changed though since that means you can't put more curse into your skyfall

[brave dove]

zenith was worse than half the minor nodes anyway

[willow phoenix]

well yes, but sometimes you can get like hitch or blitz on it for more damage

[brave dove]

+power and +strike count, my beloved

[brazen ore]

I will say i really dont like that with fig leaf there is an optimal biome to take it in (the second one) bc it makes me go hmmm do i NEED selene keepsake if i take selene coat. And the answer is I do but I love fig

[brave dove]

I've stopped running fig for the most part

[safe kettle]

wait does fig in second biome clear all the encounters of the place?

[brave dove]

it's a scam anyway-

[brazen ore]

Well you're also better at the game than me lol

[brave dove]

No, it clears one per region for three regions

[jagged zinc]

you kinda have to with selene imo, otherwise the build is way too slow to get in place

and rng

[brave dove]

lineage is a cool addition as well because it means I don't feel mandated to run Strength and go for Task Force

[brazen ore]

No but it gives you the most chances for the most clear rooms. Like if you took it on region 3 you would only have a chance to get 2 clear rooms

[brave dove]

I mean I still will but the thought is appreciated

[willow phoenix]

now you get +1 more godsent to use on bosses

[brazen ore]

Oh boy +1

[willow phoenix]

it's still something

[brave dove]

That's enough for Lunar Ray and Skyfall, lol

except against unrivaled chronos, in which case you do want task force

[brazen ore]

Its better than nothing thats for sure but I still sigh

[ocean ibex]

i like profaene's idea of making godsents more similar to greater calls, where there is a second tier of magick cost that allows you to use the godsent version

[brave dove]

if I've spent over 250 magicka and the boss isn't dead I'm playing like one of two aspects

[safe kettle]

yeah some calls the godsent is just so wasted on bosses, like the reanimator one

[brave dove]

or I'm missing everything

[willow phoenix]

I don't tbh, I like the current version. Most of the current Godsents are very strong

[brave dove]

No, that one is insanely strong

[brazen ore]

Just cause like, I wish I could save it for the last phases and stuff that really hurt me. I understand this is skill issue

[brave dove]

Resurrect one of the satyr rocketeers for Unrivaled Prometheus with the godsent buff and it will solo the fight

[brazen ore]

did kill typhon with his own son which was neat

[brave dove]

I heard they fixed it for Typhon which is great news

[willow phoenix]

That is if they actually appear in the fight

[brave dove]

go slower lmao

[willow phoenix]

I just tried it and it didn't work

[brave dove]

noooo

[willow phoenix]

at least for Yargonaut and Boar

[jagged zinc]

yeah now there's a real opportunity cost to dodge Selene for more boons, or more attractivity to get her 2-3x times, it's really cool

[brave dove]

does it work on charybdis in unrivaled scylla actually

[ocean ibex]

not really, since whether or not you actually get a godsent hex is rng

[brave dove]

or does it just get one tentacle

[willow phoenix]

just one tentacle

[brave dove]

lame

[jagged zinc]

barring the first Selene, that you're almost guaranteed to take every run i guess (idk how people play but im not swapping selene for life)

[willow phoenix]

Dark Side godsent is also very strong for bursting bosses

[brave dove]

dark side in general is really good for the unrivaled bosses

[willow phoenix]

you can get like 8k+ heartthrobs damage in one use

[brave dove]

sometimes you just want to be invulnerable while they freak out, I'll take it even if it's not godsent a lot of the time now

[glass bone]

Does reanimating the featured artist actually give the buffs to the reanimated siren?

[tall notch]

LMAO i just almost made it out of erebus with born gain being my only core boon

as anubis

barely timed out vs hec

[brave dove]

I'm impressed it was only barely jeez

when did you get to her, 1:3x-

[tall notch]

Yeah something around that, and i was an ospecial away from killing her. Tbh my fault I got too used to having dem cast and tanked a few hits I shouldn't which was literally the difference between me surviving and bricked run

[hot tendon]

lmao i went Pan just to get darkness for upgrading Moros, of course i had to kill Hec and ended up killing chronos cause i got insane RNG, always happen on these "short" darkness runs

[tall notch]

note to self: don't click chaos bomb curse on anubis

[mental sluice]

I've gotten it a couple of times and the new Incandescent Aura is better than I first thought. Not necessarily something to build around, but I've gotten it output more than I thought. Got it on Charon and with Lucid Gain and other modifiers it was doing some fun numbers. Definitely a "win more" boon though.

[safe kettle]

wait shiva coat is just kinda weird fusion of bombing rail + shield?

[hot tendon]

what do you start with on Momus?

[mental sluice]

If I'm on the surface and feeling greedy? Heph for the legendary. Although they might have nerfed what it upgrades you to in the latest patches.

[hot tendon]

And a more modest or would say realistic option? :D

[thin wyvern]

anyone have good builds for speed? i haven’t been able to get faster than 7:50 underworld and like 8:50 surface w a than axe aphrodite attack build

[last cape]

Hera

I think you can do most gods with momus but Hera gives you born gain and hitch has good synergy with momus

[hot tendon]

im bit hesitant to use born gain, like wont i just prime my whole mana at some point?

[plucky light]

just get some max mana

[last cape]

Only with the most magick hungry of builds in the longest fights. Every max mana upgrade increases your magick bar exponentially when you have born since they also buy you another refill

Born is easily the best magick as long as you can sustain it, and it's really not usually hard to sustain

There's situations for the other gods gains but the most common one is "i don't feel like putting hera in my god pool this run" haha

[loud moat]

God I’ll always miss Mortal gain. I hope they bring back priming health in some capacity. It’s a cool
Mechanic.

Honestly a version of it could easily be used to replace Vow of Scars.

I’d love Vow of Scars to instead of reducing healing, maybe prime half the amount of health you lose each encounter, maxing out at 50 reduced healing.

That way you still have the ability to recover health via aspects or boons, but your max health (if you play poorly) ends up being much lower once you reach the boss.

[civic ocean]

Apollo start into Hera Gain, Dem Cast, Winner’s circle and Geyser Spout. Take the Night arcana and alternate between O Cast and O Attack.

Build into exceptional talent, local climate, weed killer, and fine line

[sudden inlet]

I just don’t see the point in Shiva aspect without the omega block buff from hammer

[tall notch]

If you want to play melee coat its attack pattern is actually way better for that than other coats

You're not using destructive but you still get a superior moveset

[loud moat]

Try out the Chaos trial with Shiva on Olympus. You run with Hera on special and a bunch of Ares boons for plasma

[sage flame]

shiva goes crazy with apollo attack for room clear

and then it's innate big damage for bosses is great

[wispy perch]

i still dont have purge fountains offered on surface run and i've beaten typhon, what gives?

[cerulean panther]

Purge fountains aren't on the surface (yet?).

[strong dawn]

Purge fountains are underworld

Hermes shrines are surface

[loud moat]

How are people finding Mel Staff? I’ll forever miss Channel Charge speed 😭

[elfin forge]

normal special slaps pretty hard

though with the patch ospec might be the play now

[loud moat]

It’s just base damage right? So percent increases are better for it?

[uneven palm]

Yeah big rarity Aphro special chunks

[elfin forge]

big power + Big % equal big dam

[uneven palm]

I do both O special and regular since you can like dash-strike special while the O special is out. Dunno if that’s optimal but it feels ok

[loud moat]

Gotcha. And the extra magic is just there for funsies I guess? Or so you can do more omega stuff from the get go?

You don’t get Hecuba until a hit further on in the game so extra magic to start with makes sense I guess

[uneven palm]

Yeah it’s a nice-to-have

[tough pasture]

Just had something crazy happen that nearly ended a run in the underworld in defeat.

In chronos fight, phase 2 part 2 (unrivaled)...he started summoning his hourglasses.

I started destroying the hourglasses. And then he did his one-shot attack. BUT the only safe zone was in the hourmarker where an hourglass was combusting and did its time trap.

So when I dashed to reach the circular safe zone, I was trapped in the time trap and got one-shotted. Thank goodness I had a DD to survive that damage.

But feels like that's unfair, no? The safe zone should be in one of the unoccupied circular hour markers.

/I think I'll bring attention to this in the #h2-feedback channel.

[hot tendon]

I totally forgot that legendaries have their prerequisites and was just freewinging it.. just when really focusing on one god would i get a legendary, and even then i didnt connect the dots

[polar ravine]

and of course if you try to resurrect one of them he one-shots you. that was a unpleasant thing to find out. it was probably always the case but i dont think i encountered it before now

[strong dawn]

That happens all the time. It's one of the biggest dangers of taking Strength arcana

Doubt it's unintended since they've tripled down on it with the start of his Unrivaled phase 2

[tough pasture]

Well that's dumb and it should be changed. Putting the only safezone where an hourglass is combusting with the time trap prevents a player from reaching it.

And if a player doesn't have the arcana card for using cast to be briefly impervious then the players has no recourse (other than trying to pull off a super slim margin dash).

[strong dawn]

You can dash iframe the instakill

[tough pasture]

No thanks. I'm not skilled enough to do it.

I've tried it and i'm just not good at it. SgG asking me to pull off a skill that only the 40+/50+/60+ fear community can pull off for an 8-12 fear run is just flat dumb.

Like...I'm usually diplomatic with my words but that's legit dumb game design.

[sudden inlet]

I did that trial already it was fine but I just don’t find the aspect enjoyable between the slow AF O Special and the gimmick now being charging up the O Attack

When you have all those Ares boons it becomes a funny JoJo simulator

[uneven palm]

You kinda just learn to not kill the hourglasses if he hasn’t done an insta-kill lately

[ocean ibex]

whats good on nyx rn?

[uneven palm]

Hestia

[strong dawn]

It's not that "skillfull" it's just timing and you have to learn not to make that mistake again, but there's plenty of stuff in the game that saves you from the insta-kill.
Barriers (Lovers/Nitro boost), armor, DDs, Moros Pin...

[tough pasture]

And take damage from the lasers? Why? Again, that's just bad game design.

Why not make the same zone in one of the unoccupied hourmakers.

[uneven palm]

They don’t hurt you. They heal Chronos

[strong dawn]

They used to hurt you

[tough pasture]

there's so much happening on screen that I can't even tell what's happening now in the new update sometimes.

They definitely used to do damage. I don't know if that's changed.

[brazen ore]

that has changed

[uneven palm]

They used to be regular Tempus and would shoot the rotating fireballs. Now they’re special healer ones. The lasers do no damage to you.

[tough pasture]

Timing is a skill.

I've tried to do it and been burned many times (especially with eris). So I stopped trying to do it.

And yes...I know there are things to withstand it. Heck, I mentioned that I was able to survive because of a DD. But what happens when a player is out of of those options? You're assuming as if we get that full arsenal. We can only have a few of those and chances are we've exhausted them.

[strong dawn]

If you're out of those options you die because you made the mistake and got punished.

[rain wagon]

I fought Chronos at least 20 times, never noticed those things healed him. I kept dodging through the beams. It was only when I was watching a youtube vid, and the guy shouted "stop healing him!" that I learned what they did. I still wonder how long it would've taken me to notice on my own 🤣

[tough pasture]

Very cool. I'm sure you'll be totally chill like this about this game design if it happens to you at 55 fear or something.

[brazen ore]

Then they die and start a new run? like... you are not insulated from never losing a game lol. if you had options and you messed up earlier in the run which lead to you using them early, and you can't deal with it without those options, then you lose the run. It's a roguelike, conserving your strength/power/health for the boss fights is like part of the deal

[strong dawn]

I think it's a rite of passage at this point, it happens to everyone

Happened to me the other day, actually.

[ocean ibex]

i understand doing the big boom and spamming special, but who are your secondary gods?

[rain wagon]

That Chronos attack doesn't actually oneshot, right? Just does 1000 damage or so I think, I survived it earlier today with 700 hp + damage reductions.

[strong dawn]

I would love to see the stats on how many people got got by Unrivaled Chronos phase 2 trying to rush him down after the first insta-kill and ran into the time bubble in the middle

[uneven palm]

Same. Blew a 52 to a stupid decision in phase 2. Happens.

[tough pasture]

Red herring.

I'm not asking to be insulated from defeat. There's plenty of unfair things about this game I accept.

But making a safe zone inaccessible after conditioning a player to reach it is just plain bad game design. And no amount of "It'S A RoGuELiTe <HEUHEUHEUHEU> GiT gUd" is gonna change my mind on this one.

[ocean ibex]

i keep running into the time bubble just dodgin between the safe zones

[ocean ibex]

you made the safe zone inaccessible by killing the tempus

[tough pasture]

because i don't want the tempus healing chronos? lol

[brazen ore]

i mean i feel like that's a pretty uncharitable reading of what I said. you were also conditioned that killing the tempi would make inaccessible zones, you have to make the decision of when it is safe to kill them if you want to kill them. You can also just not kill them and focus chronos.

[ocean ibex]

pick 1, chronos gets ~500 hp or you lose the run

[uneven palm]

Hestia’s good on gain and attack or special. Good additions from there are Zeus (Blitz or Static) or Poseidon or maybe Demeter if you wanna go for Freezer Burn.

[ocean ibex]

hm hm hm okay

[tough pasture]

Yes, I understand the tradeoff.

It's just another one in about 15 other choices a player is making per second.

[brazen ore]

it's definitely not easy, that's for sure

[strong dawn]

I can't wait for 1.0 to see all the people who see this stuff for the first time.
If only he could still unpause the game when you first see him

[brazen ore]

I die a lot more often than I win especially when I'm trying to push the fear barrier. but I've pretty much never felt that I died unfairly

except when Poly grabbed me from across the map lol

[south hull]

You win. It's bad game design. Noted. Maybe move on instead of publicly whining for another half hour.

[ocean ibex]

the only times i feel like ive died unfairly are from bugs or when eris used to camp in the fire zones

[strong dawn]

That 1 frame go-go gadget grab

[tough pasture]

I've intentionally not activated that incantation so that I give myself the challenge of no breaks. (I know it's pretty standard for some high heat runs (from hades 1) and high fear runs now but I don't like it.)

[tough pasture]

#venting
#lol

https://tenor.com/view/bugs-bunny-bunny-no-nope-nou-gif-14651222

[brazen ore]

bluetooth grab

[brave dove]

honestly taking breaks during a boss fight is pretty likely to just get you killed I think

like you lose track of where you are

[uneven palm]

lol I like pausing between phases my palms get sweaty

[tough pasture]

I know what you mean. It works differently for different players.

[brazen ore]

boss gets to go invuln and take a break, so do I!

[brave dove]

yeah but I mean, it's not part of any high fear challenge at least not that I'm aware of

[south hull]

Nobody here is your therapist. Jutdy get over it

[brave dove]

people mostly avoid doing it if they can because it makes vods much more annoying to watch, that's all

[tough pasture]

Nobody is asking you to police this server either. (Can you see the heavens from your high horse?)

[south hull]

Some people could use a little public shaming

[elfin forge]

I think you just have a skill issue

[tough pasture]

Newsflash: there's an ignore or block button if you find me intolerable.

[brazen ore]

cmon besties

[elfin forge]

(What's going on?)

[tough pasture]

Probably.

[south hull]

There's nothing wrong with having a skill issue. I suck too. I play with god mode because I can't hack it otherwise. It's fine.

[brave dove]

anyway if you hate specifically chronos's oneshot just take aspect of artemis and laugh in his face

[tough pasture]

I'm thinking of the 50 fear runs I'll do post-1.0 and this exact scenario rearing its ugly head.

[strong dawn]

I wonder how many people got killed trying to hug EM4 Hades when he lasered back then

[brave dove]

if you're doing 50 fear I have to imagine you can swing a 50/50 shot to iframe it, the window's not that bad?

[brazen ore]

me 😭

[south hull]

And so you'll have spent 20 minutes enjoying a game that challenges you and have another chance to do it. Big deal.

[brave dove]

but also tbh getting owned by some BS during the chronos fight is like a rite of passage for 50 fear

[brazen ore]

i just wanted to give my dad a hug

[tough pasture]

Like...I'm not some noob. I completed 50+ heat runs on hades 1.

I've done 40+ fear runs on hades 2.

But for some reason I can't seem to figure out the timing of the iframe of the dash in hades 2.

I estimate I've done it correctly on around 1/6 tries. (The number of times eris clowned me has definitely discouraged me from trying it.)

I've been able to i-frame the choronos 1-shot maybe 2 times in about 10 serious tries (when I had spare DDs and wanted to see if I could do it).

[brave dove]

it's tricky don't get me wrong but like, you do have that option of last resort and you have a shot of it working

[brazen ore]

Is the timing for the iframe the same every time or is it dependent on your computer specs? Cause I know in hollow knight there are some inputs that are dependent on how fast your computer goes

[tall notch]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/l95MgSkoMmY old chronos was even better in terms of stuff like this, the players these days are spoiled

[brave dove]

so the outcome you're worried about ends up at the end of a bunch of and-if-chains

IF you don't have a build that can dissuade him from doin the oneshot and if you don't have lovers stacks or armour or DDs and if a tempus spawns in that location and if Chronos chooses to place the safespot there and if it doesn't move before chronos does the oneshot and if you can't kill it in time and if you fail to iframe the oneshot

then yeah you die

[tough pasture]

I'm playing on a pretty good set up. (I've got a 3090 RTX and an i9 processor to match.)

But I'm not tech savvy enough about inputs.

I know there are people who reexamine footage to study i-frames and damage numbers (by examining the code). I'm not that guy.

[tall notch]

this is by no means scientific but when going from 60 fps to 144 fps nothing seems to have changed about the amount of iframes i get

[brazen ore]

Oh yeah I wasn't asking why you specifically were having a hard time with it, I can't do it either, but I've also like barely attempted to iframe it. I was just academically curious

[brazen ore]

Ah ty

[tough pasture]

Oh...I've noticed one thing after the latest update.

The fated list of prophecies. Everytime I close the list, there's this weird screen stutter that happens.

I've got the kind of rig you need to play Cyberpunk 2077 on ultra max settings so I'm quite familiar with when something is visually off.

Your post jogged my memory...I should probably tell SgG to look into why that visual stutter is happening. Everything else in hades 2 is buttery smooth for me. But everytime I close the fated list of prophecies...a weird visual stuttering happens.

^ And that stuttering didn't used to happen.

It happens after the newest update.

[main beacon]

Is the current norm to use Strength arcana or have extra resurrections? I haven’t switched off strength in 6 months but idk

[brazen ore]

Yeah F10 it. can't say I've noticed it but I'm used to viewing the world through a slideshow

[brazen ore]

Dependent on what you're having trouble with imo, if you're having trouble with rooms i think strength is better, if you're having trouble with boss fights I think DDs are better

[tough pasture]

I can already foresee losing a 50+ fear run in the future to this exact scenario.

#Murphy'sLaw

#Dammit

[brazen ore]

(and i also like intentionally losing them all sometimes so I can get athena and get juicy ones)

[main beacon]

Ohhh that’s a strategy of all time

[brave dove]

I forgot I was running death and took athena keepsake in thessaly earlier lol

fire can kill you quite quickly now though

[brazen ore]

I forgot I was running strength once, athena naturally appeared on olympus, and I was like Yippee! a death defiance every room! Love that one! and clicked it without even thinking

[tough pasture]

speaking of fire...the weird gust of wind that happens in the eris fight to push you into the fire is so annoying.

I can never tell if it's eris or (in terms of game lore) typhon creating that wind.

[brazen ore]

and then immediately realized what i'd done and wept

[uneven palm]

I’m always taking the Gorgon amulet on Death with a full stack of DDs like a genius. Just got too used to Strength

[glass bone]

Just use up all of your Death Defiances, and Athena will show up /j

[tall notch]

@brave dove you won, I will try lance of ares. what do i need to know about the build?

[brave dove]

gotta start sword hilt, you probably want to reset if you don't get the option for the purple that makes it hit multiple people, task force isn't mandatory any more with lineage but it does help

obvs take Night so you've got the passive generation

[stable herald]

it's Eris, she's doing a spin to push you out of her business. try not to be between her and a fire hazard

[tall notch]

I will start at like 30f because I have never clicked lance

[brave dove]

if you're on the surface you can do a funny trick where you equip moon beam and then immediately express order a path of stars from hermes after region 1

[tall notch]

nah it will be uw

I am not both learning a new build and new bosses (i only killed rivals prom once and never saw rivals typhon)

[brave dove]

Raki and crit in general is huge, if you can get artemis whispered prayer is 30% crit on it, otherwise usual global damage stuff, ferocity is the most important blue node otherwise you're looking for anything that increases power or adds additional hits per cast

[tall notch]

no hecuba for more hex charging with omegas? interesting

[brave dove]

run hecuba if you aren't running persistence

[tall notch]

whats persistence again

[brave dove]

+magicka +max hp

[tall notch]

i am running that

[brave dove]

then yeah you should have enough provided you get a gain relatively early IMO, particularly without hubris 2 messing with you

[tall notch]

oh no my 30f has hubris 2

hubris 2 debt 2, i need a feel of the economy incase i want to bring this silly meme to 58f

[brave dove]

aaah, fair

hubris 2 is a problem in general for coat but you can do the usual things to mitigate it by taking a lot of max magicka upgrades and getting an infinite gain over born gain, which feels like teaching my grandmother to suck eggs to say but there you have it :p