h2-builds-and-combat

[dim kelp]

Demeter dash is constant uptime during the sprint as well, though it’s maybe not the best damage? Honestly I don’t take her sprint much, so I don’t really know

[trim plank]

does dem dash nullify projectiles or something? thought i saw it do that but i'm not too sure.

like weak projectiles from the witches in Erebus or something

[pure grove]

It slows projectiles, but doesn’t nullify them

The most obvious case where it happens is Hecate’s morph projectile. Having demeter’s dash means you can just out run it normally

[trim plank]

gotcha, thank you.

[rocky pier]

Which attack boon on melinoe torches, Hestia or Poseidon?

[fluid quail]

is it really romantic spark over freezer burn for supay

freezer burn just feels so much stronger

[narrow bramble]

should i attempt to get apollo legendary with no rerolls or should i go for a daedalus hammer

[stuck turret]

hammer probs will proive good weapon upgrad

[fluid quail]

|| how do you not get one shot by chronos in rivals typhon || ?

not trying to amke it back there and get one shot again to figure it out

[willow phoenix]

The moves are still the same as in normal chronos, need to stay in the safe zone

[wintry wasp]

CHAAAT what's a good build for Shiva? I am. Struggling

[spiral wadi]

ye it's basically safe spot or get shot, you'll want to generally stay in the middle of the arena, otherwise if ur too far to one side of the arena ur basically screwed trying to scurry to the other side

[magic moss]

great question, let us know when you find one

[uneven palm]

I like doing extremely big Omega punches with Apollo’s legendary. Like alternate O special O attack with Night.

[last cape]

Pray for elephant rockets, maybe the counter destructive hammer is ok enough too. Without getting a hammer that helps you charge destructive it's a huge struggle

[timber pawn]

This is fun I agree

[ebon crescent]

ive been trying out morrigan twin blades and oh my god any demeter builds on morrigan is terrifying i highly recommend

freezer burn is absolutely so fun

i think if i could get freezer burn & burning desire with glamour gain it would be very fun

[trim plank]

who is hera exactly good with? i haven't messed around much with her since Hitch doesn't seem like a very useful debuff to have.

I figured she would be good with uhh, i think it's Circe staff? The one that does copies of your moves

[willow phoenix]

Hera is pretty much good with everything, it's harder to find a weapon Hera is bad with tbh lol

[trim plank]

oh i see a skissue on my end

thank you

i'll do some runs to get more of a feel

[stray pivot]

I love how circe fits into every single cast build

[trim plank]

thanks for stating this, just beat prometheus for the first time w Moros Wand and Hera special

[ornate moth]

What is the Best arcana setup ?

[uncut owl]

left full column, strenght, origination, then fill as you please

boatman and champions for more rerolls

[elfin forge]

usually huntress, wayward son, persistence for the remaining grasp. Or you could pick stuff like artificer, night, eternity, or Lovers(this one is very strong)

[lone mirage]

does heph cast count as blast? like can they inflict glow if i have that boon?

[plush vapor]

i think u need the atk spec or dash

[ebon grove]

It does not.

[ornate moth]

What is the best boon for the sickle and dagger weapon?, i just don't know how should i use that weapon lol

[devout yarrow]

Does ares posei duo work with froth

[empty spindle]

Depends on the aspect I think. For Pan, you can get insane damage with Poseidon or Aphrodite on special.

[ornate moth]

The basic one

[willow phoenix]

Hestia on attack is probably the best. Or you could start with zeus on special then play for master conductor duo with static shock

[dim kelp]

Hera’s offerings are very supportive, so she complements pretty much any god pool or weapon. Hitch doesn’t build on itself, so you probably don’t want more than one, maybe two, sources of it, but sharing damage across enemies is really good, and it gets better as you scale up the difficulty. There’s no limit to how far away the hitch chains can go, damage through the chains will still stagger enemies, and of course the damage potential gets stronger when there are more enemies on the field.

Hera’s non-hitch-related boons are also quite strong and very flexible, and she has one of the best slates of duo boons

[trim plank]

Yeah I’ve definitely noticed how wrong I was for thinking that for so long. Got the farthest I’ve gotten to on the surface with a Here based build immediately after.

[dim kelp]

As a point of reference, H1 had a weapon aspect with a hitch-like “shared suffering” mechanic, and it was used to clear max heat unmodded fairly recently. AFAIK that’s only been done a handful of times, and the other max-heat unmodded clears used the shield (which offers an arbitrary amount of damage-blocking).

[trim plank]

Which weapon?

[dim kelp]

Aspect of Rama bow

[trim plank]

Oh, the one bow aspect I didn’t use much LMAO

I was a hera bow enjoyer

[dim kelp]

Which does have a very strong normal attack, but the draw speed is slowww, which makes it all the more impressive to avoid death on max heat with no defensive boons. The ability to spread the damage and staggers around was very key to success

[trim plank]

Got a link to the run?

[dim kelp]

For the Rama 64 heat clear? Sure https://youtu.be/Osnijisn1bI?si=Hr1vM6FzngWNHFXx

[winged acorn]

How does the aspect of supay works? cause i dont really understand it and what is te best build for that

[brave dove]

basically any combination of synergistic olympian damage is good, the base damage is ass so don't use multiplier boons except to get a curse

[uneven palm]

It automatically has a special (orbiting bits) and shoots attacks occasionally. Omega special gives you another set or orbiters and Omega attack shoots more attacks while it’s active. It’s a ton of hits but they’re all weak. Any combo of Zeus, Hestia, Poseidon, Ares, Hera will probably work out.

Also it boosts your rush boon damage a lot so like Poseidon, Zeus, Hestia dash with it can do some work

[safe kettle]

i feel like surface i have mostly down except for zone 4, especially typhon feels like some move combos in the final phase just put so much strain on your dodging, and the enemies in the zone are so frantic

[daring nexus]

Will the Doomed effect (Moros' keepsake) still kill you if you've managed to heal before the timer runs out?

[cerulean panther]

You cannot heal during the timer.

[daring nexus]

Damn. 😦

[uneven palm]

You have 10s of invulnerability to clear the encounter. If you do, you don’t lose a defiance

[daring nexus]

Yeah, I was thinking more like Moon Water and stuff.

[brazen ore]

alas no. That would be kinda broken tbh though

[uneven palm]

Yeah those don’t matter. You’ve already died if the pin is going

[brazen ore]

it would kind of reward you for completely ignoring the mechanics of pin and just using it as a reminder to moon water

(sort of like the issue that D&D 5e has in combat where you're lowkey encouraged to not heal until someone literally goes down)

[sage flame]

at least they buffed some healing in 2024 but yeah still very real

[cloud scarab]

Does Zeus' Arc Flash mean that Romantic Spark can never trigger anymore?

so does it insta trigger the blitz and negate the dashing into for extra damage. Or how do they correlate?

[cerulean panther]

They're mutually exclusive, but they can exist at the same time.

If you hit a Blitzed enemy with an Omega move, you get the Arc Flash bonus. Dashing into one will get Romantic Spark.

I have no idea how it interacts with Nyx.

[cloud scarab]

Whatever it did, it worked 😄

[safe kettle]

typhon final phase my old brain just can't keep up with

[elfin forge]

on rivals mode?

[safe kettle]

base typhon

chronos is nicely telegraphed, some of typhons stuff just happens

[cloud scarab]

I have learned to get right up in his face, then he will do more of the face slam attacks which you can dodge down from (if you have decent speed or dash) and does less of the throwing up the purple balls

also you can dodge the laser beam a lot easier up there

[safe kettle]

the final phase just pukes so many hitboxes everywhere

[safe kettle]

and honestly the beam is by far the most fair move

[cloud scarab]

true though the speed on the backhand is faster than on the way from left to right, which has thrown me off a few times 😄

[glass shell]

i feel like if the tentacles were a move BEFORE rivals i would've been used to it

but jumping straight to rivals typhon with tentacles and all the other stuff was annoying cause i didnt even realize they were there for like 10 runs

[cloud scarab]

tentacles are fairly easy if your up in his face, the first two waves of them won't touch you, get out of dodge for their third strike

[glass shell]

still won but was questioning why im taking like 400 damage from the fight

[glass shell]

yeah... now that i know they exist. They added some new anti face cheese from last patch which i wasn't ready(but still bruteforced) lmao

the hand slam now fires a wave projectile at you.

tentacles spawn in 3 rows repeatedly

triple tongue slam mixup etc

[safe kettle]

the issue in final phase is multiple attacks happening at once

[cloud scarab]

I just won my R4 Typhon run today, at first try but easy mode with Supay Blitz build 😄

[safe kettle]

the move where he spits the splitting ball just covers half the arena so fast, and feels like the tell on it is almost invisible

good luck if tentacles are also happening or the swirly things

[cloud scarab]

having the Athena dash boon is good for that

[safe kettle]

honestly i expect typhon nerf for full release, its just wayyyyy above the rest of the game in terms of difficulty

[cloud scarab]

it definitely is rough, but it is also satisfying when you do it 😄

[safe kettle]

ive walked into that fight with over 500 total hp and mitigation and still died in phase 3 cause it loves multihitting you

“oh i got hit for 70, oh the second part of the move just hit me for 70 again”

im too old for this

[cloud scarab]

what aspect do you use ?

[safe kettle]

just all the weapons in general, except for builds that avoid engaging in gameplay

like rocketspam or persephone skull afking invuln

[misty estuary]

What´s ambrosia for_

[glass shell]

taking people in crossroads to the taverna and max level relationships

[dull citrus]

Just wanted to come in here and say aspect of Anubis is the most beautiful thing in this game to me. Please never touch it thank you supergiant ❤️

Was able to beat 32 fear underworld first try with each god on Anubis attack. So damn versatile

[misty estuary]

will ares override keepsakee

[glass shell]

As in his first meeting? Yes, it doesn't override onion though.

[snow aspen]

oh thats funny. I want to see that

"I'm Ares. Have an Onion."

[obsidian narwhal]

Did a Poseidon supay run, anyone have recommendations for other sprints that are powerful? About to try a 24 fear surface run

[snow aspen]

Aphrodite/Hera if you can get her dash and her legendary was super broken. then the duo boon for Hera to auto inflict charm. not sure if it still is, but I killed Chronos in like 3 seconds

[obsidian narwhal]

Aphro dash I assume?

Or ig hera

[cloud scarab]

Zeus with Romantic Spark + Air Quality is fantastic

prime all the magic you want because basically you don't need any (unless you want to omega special from time to time)

[glass shell]

thats the funny thing, he just never spawns

until you turn off onion ares cannot spawn in your runs no matter what

there were posts on reddit about not getting ares and stuff and turns out they had onion on

[snow aspen]

yeah sorry. Aph cause its the charm enemies you dash into. Its just about getting a ton of curses with Aph legendary

I think I had been using Origination as well. Likely a judgement proc, Never turned it on by myself, but I've heard origination is actually super OP currently

[obsidian narwhal]

Origination is so powerful

[snow aspen]

yeah. Between Origination and Strength I've determined I need to give every card I had dismissed another chance. also re-rolls

I've fully switched from Death to Strength and have become one of those people XD. Granted if I was going for rivals C (who I still havn't done) ||I'd likely go for Death Cause I remember seeing someone either on here or the redit talking about getting stun locked to death.||

[real rune]

Just wanted to share an advice with fellow players who got into Hades 2 with this update : USE ASPECT OF MOROS !

Followed Haelian's "Most op builds : torches" video, then proceeded to beat prometheus for the first time, and then beat Typhon on my first ever attempt.

What's scarier is that it was with a zero upgrades Moros. Crazy stuff ! 😆

[civic ocean]

The differentiating factor between Death and Strength usually comes down to:

-Are you using lots of damage sources that are difficult to get %damage upgrades? If you're using like your Weapon boon + origination + Furies + other stuff etc then Strength's 20% increase is taking you from like 200% to 220% which is nothing, and Death gives you much more practical survivability over the course of a run with DD refills being handed out in this game like candy

-Will choosing one over the other cost you Divinity in your layout?

Those are the things I think about. Currently, I think the scales are very, very strongly tilted towards Death unless I am doing a low-fear speedrun.

[real rune]

Thanks for making me feel less of a scrub for thinking strength isn't worth it for the common mortal

Death was the first tarot card i maxed out

[plucky light]

how do you guys make the axe work?
i dont understand how to use it.
it is just too slow and the omega attack takes ages to charge and makes you moves so slow

[gray flame]

I don't understand how Supay works, sometimes it activates my special around me, sometimes not? Sometimes it triggers attacks, sometimes not?

[elfin forge]

use dash attacks frequently if you can

charge omegas when enemies are spawning, or if you have some space on slower enemies

[elfin forge]

Supay will activate normal specials constantly orbiting you in combat. You can make them temporarily better(really good) by using omega special
Supay will automatically shoot attack shots every once in a while at enemies(this can also include things such as gold pots, though I don't know if traps like Barrels will attract their shots).

[real rune]

Still new to the game. But from what i undertand, only Charon and Nergal take you into specific playstyles/builds. Charon focuses on omega special and cast. Nergal wants Heph legendary for fast berserks.

The rest of the aspects look very vanilla with not much build variety. Probably get Appolo on the attack for bigger coverage or something.

[turbid mantle]

whats a good god to have on attack for moros torches? i was thinking zeus but maybe just a straight damage increase would be better

[magic moss]

any %

[turbid mantle]

rad thanks

[stuck turret]

with moros, should I focus more on getting a good atk, or a good special?

[civic ocean]

Correct

Specifically if you are playing Origination, getting a % based attack that applies a curse (Hera/Demeter/Ares) and Zeus on the Special is pretty nice.

[stuck turret]

ah, alright
Thanks for clarification!

[civic ocean]

grain of salt though I have very little experience with the torches this patch

[plush vapor]

(also you should 100% be playing origination at all times)

[civic ocean]

Why?

[turbid mantle]

its so bonkers

im very not great at hades 2 but origination is just great

[frank creek]

When should I not choose Aphrodite as the attack special boon? I just find her so much superior to all the other gods on dps, the only exception is maybe hidden skull with hestia

I don't get why should I choose Poseidon heph appolo ares hers attacks

[elfin forge]

aphrodite is good if you have a high base power, like on Axe. Otherwise, you might get more damage from external sources like Scorch or Zeus

[glass shell]

well for starters you need to be close to the enemy

[civic ocean]

It's pretty good, sure, but it's 50% additive damage, a lot of builds it isn't really worth going out of your way to get two statuses to justify the cost

[frank creek]

Whenever I do this I always end with poor dps build

[elfin forge]

I mean this is a given for Hades 2

[glass shell]

second, like suace says % damage sucks if your damage is low to start with, but an axe loves aphro

[elfin forge]

if you have attacks with low base power, your % won't really matter, you can't like, exponentialize it to becomes much stronger

[frank creek]

Aren't most weapons damage close anyway? Dagger special coat and flames generally are quite close weapons

[frank creek]

I use aphro alot with axe and aspect of melinoe special

But almost all weapons i run aphro is generally better on the dps

[elfin forge]

axe special is a good example
Common Aphro: +60 damage
Common Hestia: +150 damage
Common Zeus: +100 damage

[frank creek]

Maybe is that I never really clicked with axe special

[elfin forge]

you said aspect of melinoe special though

[frank creek]

But I will try Hera special on axe probably charon

[frank creek]

Isn't Hera special lower than aprho on %?

[elfin forge]

It says hestia

[civic ocean]

To answer your original question, Aphrodite doesn't work well with:

-Builds that are strong when they can utilize their range (Momus Staff, Dagger Specials, Charon Axe, Mel Skulls are all some examples) - Aphrodite doesn't do anything at range.

-Builds that use low base damage, high speed attacks (the dagger multi-hit combo, Mel coat) - these would rather get flat damage like from Poseidon or Hestia.

[elfin forge]

Also consider something like Ares. Ares gives you Power on some strikes, which can be extremely valuable. You can get %buff from other sources. Your arcana alone already provide you up to +150% buff already

[frank creek]

I remember back when spiral knives pan was a thing the best boon was Poseidon and apro

I still had better results with aphro

But I will check the math

[civic ocean]

Ares also has a lot more self-scaling for damage than Aphrodite does, at the cost of lower damage out of the box

[elfin forge]

plus Grievous blow exists

[civic ocean]

Yes, Greivous Blow, Mutual Destruction, Blood Drops

[edgy nacelle]

they said hestia not hera
the point is that for fast but weak multi hit attacks, boons that add separate instances of damage (like splash blitz and scorch) can end up giving you more total damage than adding a % of the base attack.
i.e.:

axe special does 20 damage 3 times
aphrodite will give you +100% damage, so +60 (+20 per hit)
hestia will give you 50 damage per hit, so +150 total
(edited typos cause I'm dumb whoops, 3 hits)

if you're playing at close range and you want a damage% boon then aphrodite is very strong, but it also kinda depends on your full build, if you're aiming for specific duos or don't have room in your build to set up origination without a status curse on your attack (i.e. I may go for hera attack over aphro if my cast and dash aren't good for consistently cursing enemies)

[frank creek]

Ah ok, my bad for some reason I mixed up both

[civic ocean]

FWIW I think if you are taking Aphrodite on a high power attack you can probably skip Origination you have it baked in

[frank creek]

Do they add up or they multiple themselves?

[civic ocean]

all % damage is additive, unless something changed after the patch

Ares and crit work differently.

[frank creek]

Ah, this helps

[edgy nacelle]

ah yeah fair point. I guess it depends how consolidated your damage is, ik I personally find builds with multiple damage sources more fun so I like effects which buff multiple things, but if you're going all in on a strong attack then it won't matter as much

[frank creek]

I have problem with a lot of things on the screen some fights are difficult to see if I overwhelm with a lot of skills, Eris fights are horrible for example

I generally try to have a carry boon attack and the rest will be to. Survive

Over the last few weeks I found hepahestus amazing as second god

[narrow bramble]

hey! can someonelet me know how how rooms work in ephyrya? like, is there a limit to how many of a specific god can be shown, or can you get like 4-5 rooms of a single god's boons on that floor?

[cerulean panther]

I think you can stack 4+ rooms of a single god if you commit to spending the rerolls.

[edgy nacelle]

then it sounds like aphrodite is a really good fit for your preferred playstyle tbh! she's great for builds like that.
you'd maybe also enjoy scorch builds on some faster hitting weapons (like the hidden staff aspect or some blades set ups), since unlike splash and some zeus stuff it doesn't fill the screen with visual effects, but it still benefits fast weak hits which aphro is meh for. idk, worth messing around with

[elfin forge]

I feel like an issue with aphro is that it's kinda hard to scale. You would want to pursue sources of crits, power, attack speed, and doublestrike. More %buff does not do that much at that point

the issue is that all of those are kind of elusive

[narrow bramble]

thamks! and are there ways to get more than 10 rerolls at the start of a run/replenish somehow in ephyra? i forget, returning after a hiatus

[elfin forge]

not really, I don't think

[cerulean panther]

I don't think so. Only way to get more rerolls is Narcissus who is in the Underworld.

Pretty sure. Not 100% on that.

[turbid mantle]

does the cutscene with zeus signify typhon's second phase?

[elfin forge]

typhon's phases are mostly based on when he shoots eggs

[cerulean panther]

Yes.

[stable herald]

yeah, it's the halfway point

[turbid mantle]

oh ok rad

[stable herald]

Eggs are at the quarter phases

[elfin forge]

you could technically break it up into 4 phases, but I don't think Typhon's attacks change before and after zeus

[turbid mantle]

oh wow okay cool

[elfin forge]

sorta? I believe Eggs2 is 40% hp

[turbid mantle]

i was really close then!!!! rad thanks

[narrow bramble]

im kinda struggling to win a run with aspect of charon on olympus with vow of rivals x 4, what are good builds for charon?

[frank creek]

Yeah, she has a simple plan generally, the only thing I don't enjoy as much is some builds are really dependant on hammers to maximize damage like dual moonshot. But I guess most build can be hammer dependant

I have tried cast builds on the past but I have a issue with consist positioning of cast my self and enemy so the dps a lot of times ends up being subpar since I waste a lot of time trying to set up

[edgy nacelle]

if you want to try cast builds out again maybe go for a Zeus heavy build!
I think he's a nice intro to cast builds since 1) Lightning Lance lets you summon your cast at a distance so you're safer + have more control, and 2) Storm Ring deals solid damage without the need to channel an Ω Cast, which is safer and can feel snappier to play. + there are lots of ways to amp up Zeus damage (i.e. duos and boons like double strike)
I like a lot of cast builds, but more Ω focused ones can be harder to set up imo. Also, idk if you've tried the new aspect of Circe, but Storm Ring + Circe builds (optionally with Apollo's Super Nova boon) make cast positioning really forgiving, since you end up with two massive circles. That may make the positioning feel less annoying.
(no need to use cast builds if you don't want to, but those are my thoughts based on what felt clunky to you if you want to try again)

[frank creek]

Thanks a lot

I will give it a try

[rocky pier]

Wound seems kinda weak? It’s sad Ares is worse in Hades 2.

[minor fern]

How do you get the godsent sky fall hex? Don't you have to have the god before you get the hex

[cerulean panther]

Get Ares before your first Path of Stars.

[minor fern]

Thank you

[willow phoenix]

Equip ares keepsake as 1st keepsake

[snow aspen]

thanks so much for the information ❤️ It explains why I suck so much at higher heat XD Maybe this can end my bad loosing streak to Typhon so I can start working my way through vow of rivals again

[willow phoenix]

Godsent is determined on hex pickup which means on skyfall it's determined on run start

Doesn't matter how late your path of stars is

[snow aspen]

wait, I may be stupid, If i'm understanding you right that mean the godsent is the god you get as the first boon in first room? (and potentially none if you don't get a god boon there)

[elfin forge]

all boons you get before you pick your hex, yes

[snow aspen]

so not just first one, but if I was to get ares, hestia, and hera before I got the hex all three would be in the running?

[elfin forge]

no, ares is only on skyfall, you will never get his Godsent hex randomly

but Hestia and Hera would be available

[snow aspen]

sorry I meant for deciding if a hex was godsent, I know they only apply to specific ones

[elfin forge]

yeah

[snow aspen]

or I guess chance for a godsent hex. cause there isn't a guarentee you roll the combatable ones. Thank you!

[willow phoenix]

Yeah if say you get an option for Total Eclipse, if you have Hestia beforehand it'll be godsent

[elfin forge]

Zeus + Twilight curse, Hera + Night bloom, etc

[snow aspen]

tbh I havn't liked night bloom. I got it and sun worshiper and maxed out the hex and I felt like it did nothing for me

[willow phoenix]

Your path of stars is determined on hex pickup too fyi, so for skyfall you can just check on run start to see what your path layout looks like

[snow aspen]

think I got someone as the godsent on it as well. but it was underworld non vow of rivals and I bullied granddad

wait how do you do that? I've been wanting to look at whats available on that specific path before to plan stuff out

[willow phoenix]

Go to the boon menu, on controller it's left arrow, go to the hex icon on top of the health bar, there's an option to see the details for the layout

[snow aspen]

I think I know how to get to the boon menu on keyboard, hopefully I can figure out the rest from there. ❤️ Thank you very much!

[elfin forge]

do you absolutely have to have Ares keepsake in order to get the godsent

[willow phoenix]

Yes, it's the only way

Your path layout is determined on run start for skyfall, so what upgrades you can get is already determined there

Which also means you can keep resetting until you get the path layout you want lol

[real rune]

What's the best hammer for pan aspect ?

I think i got 3 good ones but not sure wich is the best

Trick knives
Hidden knives
Dancing knives

[uneven palm]

Trick, easily

[real rune]

Not sure if trolling, or trolling ...

[strong dawn]

Trick knives is stupidly good

[devout yarrow]

Mmmm froth kinda nice

Especially with Demeter cast

Oh nemisis stole my poseidon

[real rune]

Maybe i should have mentionned i'm on poseidon spesh

[low bear]

vow of rivals is insane damn

[terse hemlock]

Man aspect of circe is now my favorite staff. Whats the best cast for this besides demeter? been using it with Raki

[spiral wadi]

it synergizes a lot w/ most cast boons, i find hera cast to be one of the strongest

if you get winner's circle you just hunt down every cast/omega cast boon, heph cast gets super funny

[terse hemlock]

thanks imma try that

[tall notch]

Heph and Zeus for most damage. Heph is aoe, Zeus is single target

[fluid flare]

What do you go for with anubis?

[distant token]

what is the best build for twin sisters blade ?

is it hestia special and zeus attack ?

[uneven palm]

That’s solid

[forest hinge]

OK so im literally doing a Demeter build on Anubis rn and i just learned: "Unlike Prominence Flare and Geyser Spout, which provide similar effects, Meat Grinder is not affected by Casts or Ω Move damage increase effects." -the Hades fandom wiki.

which kinda bums me out cus Hostile Environment is such a cool duo boon lol

like should i just be doing a Prominence Flare build instead?

[uneven palm]

The boost to your Omega cast is still worth it even with Meat Grinder tbh

[forest hinge]

but doesnt the Omega cast dmg only apply to the original cast detonation? and not meat grinder itself?

[uneven palm]

Yes

Doesn’t make Hostile Environment suddenly bad just because you have Meat Grinder

[forest hinge]

does Hestia's Heat Rush count as olympian dmg? or is it more akin to weapon dmg?(just without actual 'Weapon' properties)

[olive tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1216700686079885332/1389960620031348746/image.png?ex=68668534&is=686533b4&hm=bd601d147959bfc9752cdfe40c3635f2f77b1cabfad00e0da174e7d38f4071f4&

unreal luck on this run, bullied typhon to death

it took a single omega for typhon to change to each phase

[cerulean panther]

Meat Grinder lets you get Hostile Environment without going triply in on investing on Ares's swords so you can have an otherwise useful Cast boon.

[olive tusk]

is meat grinder spammable on a charon build

and as for anubis. its been really difficult get an omega build to work on frenzy 2, it just takes too long, probably a skill issue, i should try that arcana card which slows things down

[brave dove]

you can dodge while channeling

[cerulean panther]

Yes, Meat Grinder will leave a Blade Rift after your Cast is detonated.

[olive tusk]

idk why i keep thinking channeling would get canceled while dodging

[brave dove]

varies on the weapon

but anubis you can just dodge during the oattack and it'll keep going, useful repositioning tool - you can also use it to put the oattack arc in the middle of the damage field

[safe kettle]

is that the one that fires straight?

that is honestly just the best knives hammer

[real rune]

I think so

[plucky light]

hey guys, can you have multiple magick recharge boons equipped at once?

[sick tide]

No

You can have Unseen and a boon though

Cardio Gain doesn’t work with Anubis, does it?

[spare kite]

afaik no

[spare kite]

all the boons that are on the left of your ui are core boons, you can only have one at a time

(you can tell they are cores for their naming scheme too)
strike - attack
flourish - special
ring - cast
rush - sprint
gain - mp regen

[cerulean panther]

The very edge case is picking up multiple Chaos Gain boons. Like in H1 you can stack as many of those as you can find, but there's usually better ways to sustain Magick.

[forest hinge]

is Winner's Circle with Hostile Environment anti-synergy?

[spare kite]

if you have a cast that deals dmg once you just get to use the boosted dmg more with winner's

if it's something like zeus's then yeah winner's is gonna mess a little

[forest hinge]

but Meat Grinder hos.env would suffer right?

[willow phoenix]

No meat grinder duration stays the same

[spare kite]

meat gri- yeah that

meat grinder is an effect that procs when your omega cast goes, not tied to the duration

[forest hinge]

i guess meat grinder isn't actually PART of the omega cast dmg anyways so i guess it makes sense yeah

[spare kite]

with winner's you get to place even more rifts

[forest hinge]

hmm i see

im using Circe staff with Raki to see if Hos.Env will follow the familiar lol

[spare kite]

it places both casts on you

[forest hinge]

ohh

does the dmg stack from both metal rifts?

[cerulean panther]

I believe so.

[sick tide]

Is there a way to see your total dodge percent chance in game? Not seeing it when I look, but I could definitely be missing it

[spare kite]

nope, gotta add your sources yourself (dodge is additive)

[dapper elbow]

Is nergal’s healing affected by scars?

[forest hinge]

yep. as far as im aware, all healing in the game is affected by scars

[uneven palm]

There’s actually lots of healing not affected by Scars. Charity Bottles, Circe’s gift, Vampiric Cataclysm, Plentiful Forage…

[brave dove]

Nergal is one of the sources that bypasses Scars 3

unlike most of them, I think that one is actually intended

[dapper elbow]

Since it is part of the gimmick.

[wooden wadi]

has anyone worked out what the theoretical max dodge is? And also has anyone managed to get it?

+6 Gale, +10 Circe (Word of Smaller Stature), Hasty Retreat (+1.25% at heroic), Whispy Whiles (+3 per air)

So that's like, what

if you get 5 air boons in the main slots, then all 5 hermes air boons, then all 8 zeus air boons, then all 4 Aphro air boons, 2 (+1) Hera boons, 3 Apollo air boons, and 1 artemis air boon,
that brings you to 87% dodge from air quality + 36.25% from Hasty Retreat

Add in another 20% from daze (which I think is rolled separately) and you're at 139.25% dodge + however daze is applied.

Then also Chaos who can grant Creation for 1-4 additional air sigils.

Given that it can go comfortably over 100 if you get all of it, It makes me feel like in a run you could get to 100% with some luck - I don't know off hand the max number of possible boons in a surface run though

[spare kite]

Circe's tiny mel spell is better than upgrading gale btw

It gives +10% dodge

[wooden wadi]

good catch, I'll change it

[safe kettle]

daze is probably multiplicative with dodge

[spare kite]

But anyways yeah it can take some luck but you can reach 100% dodge

[safe kettle]

since it happens at source

[spare kite]

Could also go UW and pray for multiple creations from chaos

[plush vapor]

can you actually get 100 or is it capped

[spare kite]

Can get 100%

[plush vapor]

cool

[spare kite]

It was tested with the bridal glow bug last patch and pomming hasty retreat

[lone mirage]

· Argent Skull (Hel): now breaks Urns more easily

i could cry

[onyx trench]

They hit supay immediately lol

[shy summit]

rip supay 😭

it was fun while it lasted

[tough pasture]

This is why I can't get into all these high fear runs pre-1.0.

[uneven palm]

You just adapt. Things change.

[tough pasture]

I will say the hades 2 legendary aspects feel much stronger than the hades 1 counterparts.

/Though I concede that perhaps I'm a victim of recency bias.

But rama + beowulf were the only legendary aspects I liked from hades 1.

In hades 2, I like all 5 out of 6 of them. (The suit one is...meh.)

[obtuse cape]

I tested and Supay is fine still.

I think the biggest nerf honestly came to making Scorch not crit or get AQ

That's a pretty big nerf to Scorch honestly

[tough pasture]

what do you mean by AQ?

[obtuse cape]

air quality

[tough pasture]

Scorch did feel very strong. Dammit. That does feel like a major nerf.

[glass bone]

A few things peaked my interest looking at these patch notes:

• Supay did get nerfed, but Anubis and Hel seems to be staying the same / buffed respectively, and they are argued to be strong akin to Supay but not as easy to control (from what I saw about feedback from others and the scarce tier lists.)
• “Fixed Vow of Scars from not being applied” feels interesting to me. Perhaps this means Nergal will be cancelled out by Scars 3.
• Most of the Vow of Rival bosses received nerfs in some form, and the ones that don’t have “adjusted behaviors”.
• Also, the Black Coat could be very strong in this patch, since all of its aspects received varying buffs.
• and yeah, scorch meta is probably dead. Wonder what’ll be meta next for the boons.

[obtuse cape]

I think BC Special is probably going to be a new meta. Shiva in particular with some special hammers on a Zeus or Poseidon special based build is going to see use I'm guessing

[sharp imp]

morrigan aspect is so cool. They could build a whole game around that mechanic

[brazen ore]

Shiva feels substantially worse to me so far but I'm hoping I'm wrong

[jagged zinc]

Seems like a good patch with Supay and scorch nerfs. I'm eager to try Shiva now

[obtuse cape]

Shiva base is definitely worse. However, Shiva with certain hammers is going to be obnoxiously strong

[hazy crater]

Im just glad that the devs addressed the black coat damage potential being rather underwhelming, im excited to try out the buffed version

[glass bone]

One more thing I did just think of; Discordant Bell probably will be a speedrunner’s dream, and perhaps could be a new Any%/32F first keepsake to take. Just not certain if the damage keeps building after you take the keepsake off.

[jagged zinc]

If there's still the Hammer boon "gain 4 marks when you parry during your oattack" it's gg

[glass bone]

Patch notes doesn’t say anything about changing said hammer, so presumably yes it still exists.

[tough pasture]

legendary aspect needing hammers to be strong = 🥀🥀🥀🥀🥀

[jagged zinc]

1200damage oattack with 4 marks 0 buff

it will be a fun build

[simple turret]

STEADY GROWTH NOOOOOOOOO

[glass bone]

Wait a minute… it IS changed.

Instead of it being 4, it’s now 3 charges

[shy summit]

i was devastated

gambling lovers stay losing

[jagged zinc]

1k damage ;(😭

[shy summit]

the change does still retain the power of getting it early tho - can't complain too much

[heady hawk]

the steady growth change is odd to me. it has such an outside chance anyway to act on itself most of the time that it buffing itself is one of those typical roguelike ‘I love it when a plan comes together’ dopamine kicks

[keen hornet]

im thinking of a hephestus aspect of circe cast build with hermes for the funny rapid cling clang sound

aww with seismic hammer too that'll be fun

[nimble prism]

What is the supay bonus rush dmg post nerf?

[glass bone]

Prominence Flare and Arctic Gale also work with the familiar cast 🙂

[glass bone]

90% -> 50% (at Rank 5)

[nimble prism]

Damn

[jagged zinc]

Is it me or they buffed the rush area of Shiva ? Didnt play it enough to be sure :d

[brazen ore]

brother i want to live in the world where shiva is as strong as devs think it is

[glass bone]

Presumably the answer is no to both, but I am wondering if before or after this patch, you could affect the speed at which ospecial drops.

[brazen ore]

it would take longer to drop if you put it further away

[glass bone]

But can plasma / nimble limbs affect the speed?

[plush vapor]

shiva with certain hammers was already pretty decent
the problem(that wasnt fixed) is that its awful with at base

[glass bone]

And also Racing Thoughts.

[plush vapor]

theres 2(?) hammers that make it good

[fleet inlet]

Is there a somewhat agreed convention of which Olympains are easier to deal with in dual boon rooms?

[plush vapor]

hera is the hardest imo

[brazen ore]

if you have any kind of visual issue/photosensitivity, Apollo is really really bad to deal with. Other than that, for me personally Poseidon and Aphro are pretty easy to deal with and Hera sucks

[plush vapor]

other than that theyre all pretty fine

[jagged zinc]

Demeter very easy imo

[plush vapor]

yeah basicaly always take hera first

[fleet inlet]

okay thanks

[obtuse cape]

In small rooms “like the mini rooms in Oceanus” Hestia is beyond difficult if you are melee

[obtuse cape]

I’m curious how potent Chakra Collider will be though.

[shy summit]

OH you still get two balls with the supay omega special

ok it's still good

[obtuse cape]

They just move slower/hit harder

[simple turret]

instead of 4?

thats really rough rip

[plush vapor]

it was 3 no?

[simple turret]

supay omega special was 4

[plush vapor]

oh right

[glass bone]

“It’s as if the aspects of Shiva and Supay swapped places in strength in the blink of an eye”. /j

[simple turret]

supay with zeus special + omega moves activate blitz was just a 2 boon combo that did insane damage with no duos or large upgrades needed

[obtuse cape]

The damage increase I think can scale better with Aphro special though

[simple turret]

depends if it still flies out as far

[obtuse cape]

Im more curious about how strong Chakra Collidor will be on new Shiva Omega Attack.

[real rune]

Charon axe

Giga cleaver hammer
Epic Apollo flourish
Epic Born again
72% cast damage from chaos

Before even reaching Hecate 😆

On it's way to become my fav axe aspect

[shy summit]

was it really 4? dang...

[jagged zinc]

meh idk, shiva still slow af

looks like piloting a tank alternating ospecial oattack

[glass bone]

About to jump into the patch with an Unseen favorite (Persephone Skull); advice on who’s the best gods to aim for after the Scorch nerfs (and also Blitz nerfs from Unseen iirc)?

I am currently thinking Zeus still as a keepsake start with like… Poseidon on special, Demeter for Air Quality synergy, and probably Hestia or Aphrodite for mana gain, or Hephaestus considering the armor buff.

[grand prism]

Aspect of Circe + Hephaestus's Ring boon is stupidly broken lmao

[brave dove]

Circe is just really strong, I think Tidal Ring is probably the winner without duos though.

Geyser Spout + Arctic Gale give it pretty nonsense damage

[quartz parrot]

what happened to my supay

:[

[solemn loom]

Pretty much all of community's current high fear entries. (Fear 40+)
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1272385014150991875/1390050965578715136/Screenshot_2025-07-02_at_3.26.04_PM.png?ex=6866d958&is=686587d8&hm=bc4cb09310a3e4c7e5116f9317a3b90b833da2317fb7148b7221f36985f80ae9&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1371&height=792

[grand prism]

Where is that screenshot from?

[solemn loom]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/

Just saw Patch 10. haha lmao

[real rune]

Ok, learned the hard way you can prime yourself out with Born again against Chronos. So from now on, appolo gain it is.

Still managed to clear at least.

[wooden wadi]

I like scorning Poseidon because he gets sad if you never pick him and it's funny

[grand prism]

Be nice to jolly man! :(

[mint pawn]

Well Incandescent Aura feels stronger, if you can get the build online. New Hex path I saw was a huge improvement. I feel significantly less cool when playing Supay now. The single special looks kinda derpy compared to the previous two spheres passively orbiting you.

[spiral wadi]

yeaa i actually want to try running incandescent aura now, seems better than having to awkwardly stand near enemies

[sonic trail]

I just tried Incandescent Aura with Apollo's Gain - something felt very wrong, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was.
It was supposed to give me 270 magik back (I had it leveled up) - so 270*5 = 1350 right?
The most I saw it do was 480

[mint pawn]

I liked it a lot on the Mel torch manaburn build. Hitch on special to spread the hitch all over.

[willow phoenix]

Incandescent aura only gives as much as you actually regen I think

so if you don't have 270 magick missing it won't do that much damage

[sonic trail]

I thought it might be it, but it did around that number even when I only had 10 magik missing

[willow phoenix]

hmm that's odd, so far I've only tried it with Born Gain + Possessed Array and it did like 2k

[sonic trail]

It also seemed to not deal damage to far away Hitched enemies, but I need to test it more to be sure

[willow phoenix]

I think this is just a bug(?) with hitch, I find hitch normally doesn't work that far apart

[jagged zinc]

My fav build was Incandescent aura + Brave Face + Hestia regen on Twin sister... I facetanked everything and the damage were really good

[sonic trail]

did it do damage only according to the amount you actually regen or not?

[jagged zinc]

Yes it works that way iirc, but with brave face the point is you're always oom :d

[willow phoenix]

something to try is probably mirrored thrasher and cardio gain with incandescent aura

[sonic trail]

wait, how will this work with Hephaestus Tough Gain?

[willow phoenix]

or honestly possessed array and born gain is also very good

[willow phoenix]

every time you get hit you regen the tough gain regen, it works very well with brave face

it's the old unkillable build that sgg keeps nerfing to the ground lol

maybe by the time 1.0 comes out all damage reduction wil be gone lol

[elfin forge]

at last

[willow phoenix]

warm breeze is still in the game weirdly enough

[jagged zinc]

it's sad because i still keep fond memories of this xd

[willow phoenix]

I thought they would nerf it to the ground lol

you can still stack tons of DR with that Night Bloom upgrade, Python Scales, and Knuckle bones. Just much harder than just Tough Gain and Brave Face

[sonic trail]

I tried it yesterday, it felt very weak - it didnt even show up in the damage chart in the end of the run

[tall notch]

the duo got reworked today

[jagged zinc]

With Morrigan you'd have good use of hera atk, hepha special and good atk speed

i'll retry it some day

[wooden charm]

Best build for the axe with the aspect of Thanatos?

[mint pawn]

I like Blood Drops Heinous Affront a lot for Thanatos, though I haven't tried it since they switched it from blood drops to plasma

[civic ocean]

Reading the notes why does supergiant hate me personally

[mint pawn]

These patch notes felt like a personal attack tbh

[civic ocean]

They killed air fryer 😦

Brutal 😦 😦

[tall notch]

well we still got to air fry quite a bit while it lasted. people who join on 1.0 release will never have heard of air fryer

[elfin forge]

reading the patch notes, I think I won

supay nerfs were warranted, Frenzy Unrivaled bosses specifically were too oppressive but I wanted them to be adjusted without affecting nonfrenzy, the Poly Grab got nerfed, less fire in Eris, chronos got touched a bit, the tempus instakill was fixed

[mint pawn]

Supay nerfs were definitely warranted, but only having one special orbiting you by default looks really dumb and awkward. Huge aura loss.

[elfin forge]

idk my default was always using ospecial

The most questionable part to me is Scorch. I don't think scorch got hit in the right spot exactly

[tight marten]

yep

[elfin forge]

like scorch unquestionably needed to be nerfed, but I think the nerf should've been to its drain rate

[tight marten]

I'm glad anubis didn't get nerfed

[woeful moth]

Did we get a quality of life update today?

quality of death

[sonic trail]

the rework didnt change how the damage is calculated - only changed from dealing to close by enemies to Hithed enemies, so i doubt it would feel any different with that melee build

[real rune]

https://youtu.be/XdyUsygXFc0?si=xu-v0RKXEUWj1kTc

Had so much fun trying Charon axe for the first time today

[tight marten]

I remember when there was Appolo busted cast...

boy was charon fun back then😔

[real rune]

I wouldn't know. Just joined with the unseen update.

[tight marten]

welcome!!!!

[cursive gate]

I know they prevented tier 2 cast boons from being locked out once you pick one but is there a limit to how many you can have? Wanna go nuts with circe.

[willow phoenix]

no, you can get all of them

[willow phoenix]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1233146305308528650/1390078032101904495/image.png?ex=6866f28d&is=6865a10d&hm=b8d73ff07ba4962207d7da99da37be36a13d7138178dbbbefd4d95ed58b8046e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1423&height=800

Here I tried it, kinda decent. Kinda limited with how much magick I can burn lol since otherwise it's just 5 magick restored per hit

Incandescent Aura prob is better with an aspect that can burn magick very quickly like Shiva or Torches

[rain wagon]

Noticed you never dashed during the Ω Special channel, which is really nice to reposition with the Axe, makes it even more fun. Thought you might want to know.

[sage flame]

and go back to og hestia numbers??????? no thanks I'll take the faster dps over application nerfs like we got

and I don't think scorch "unquestionably needed to be nerfed" tbh

it's like almost as good as hitch and blitz but not on their level still imo

[elfin forge]

I think warsong hestia honestly might've been fine, we just didn't do much experimentation.
In addition, most hidden aspects are high attack rates, meaning you usually either want Hestia or Poseidon
Poseidon got hit at the same time that Hestia got buffed overall just made it a super wide gap imo

Hestia really did not need a 25% damage per second buff

[sage flame]

poseidon is kinda awesome now, unseen brought both of them up a good amount

[elfin forge]

Currently when I think Scorch, I think of:
Nyx Special
Anubis Attack
Morrigan Attack
Hel Attack
Supay Special

4 of these just came out

[uneven palm]

Hestia’s damage rate was IMO fine pre-Unseen, the only thing that truly needed fixed was the awful scorch numbers on her special.

[real rune]

Yeah, i did see haelian do that. Looks really cool. This was only my second or 3rd run with the aspect. So, i still gotta incorporate it into my gameplay. Thanks for the advice.

[elfin forge]

Poseidon not working well with Anubis and Pan is definitely a shame

[sonic trail]

I assume the old range was a bigger deal than I thought in why this build didnt feel good when I tried it in its old form

[tight marten]

I wouldve love a anubis attack with poseidon boons that's just a big ass ocean, like waves crashing from everywhere

[willow phoenix]

Yeah the old range is very small lol, also I'm pretty sure the damage from incandescent also gets transferred with Hitch

[blazing tide]

does anyone know if i use kings ransom do i lose the infusions that hera made?

[willow phoenix]

Yes

Oh wait from the legendary?

[blazing tide]

yeah

[spice orchid]

Sorry if this isn't the place to ask, but is unlocking Aspect of Supay purely RNG? I have the 3 of the umbral flames unlocked and the moros one at level 5. Moros just keeps talking about eos 😦

[willow phoenix]

You shouldn't lose it since they don't count as Hera's boon

[blazing tide]

thanks!

LOL NOPE

it takes them all away but its all good

i now have a level 27 dash on supay so this is still gonna be fun

[willow phoenix]

Oh then it got changed, interesting. It used to not do that

[blazing tide]

yeah i dont mind either way win/win

[willow phoenix]

I guess sgg doesn't want players to get all infusions with double hera Legendary lol

[forest hinge]

im i the only one that think Supay didnt need the Rush boon nerf? i feel like Heat Rush builds like kinda its main thing since Ares' Plasma doesnt make its specials rotate faster OR increase the attack fire rate

[elfin forge]

hm maybe idk. The damage on Hestia was quite high

[blazing tide]

a ton of zeus boons at 25+ melted typhon so fast

honestly worth way more than the infusions

[forest hinge]

was it blitz and bolt boons? or just just bolts with like supay/zeus dash?

[blazing tide]

supay and had the blitz on the special and rush
also the double strike but idk if that works with the rush

[forest hinge]

i think double strike works with all zeus lightning effects

idk if you can double dip on Arc Flash though

[blazing tide]

i had arc flash and double strike both but no clue what was going on lol

[wide flicker]

What's a good setup for Medea Skull?

[blazing tide]

oh wait i think i found a bug

[elfin forge]

zeus special, a strong attack

[blazing tide]

i got them taken away but they still show up on the screen where you can see your run

but the hera boons are gone

[willow phoenix]

Are they actually taken away or just deactivated because you don't have the elements anymore?

Because losing the hera boon will lose you the elements

[blazing tide]

Ah good point, i didnt check that i just saw the really high levels on my boons and thought they were gone

i dont remember having that many hera boons but ill try and make it happen again

actually i mustve had at least 3 to hit the legendary so thats already 12 and my dash was 7 before

[willow phoenix]

Yea sounds like you had 5 hera boons including the legendary

[blazing tide]

i think im wrong yeah

[civic ocean]

Did poseidon pan get changed

I was trying it yesterday at 39f and it did feel a bit weak

[timber pawn]

Pan waves don't apply to all knives now. Waves has a cooldown that applies to certain fast hitting attacks including Pan ospec

[elfin forge]

Poseidon waves have an internal cooldown for how fast they can fire

It also applies to stuff like Anubis, I believe, but not stuff that shoots individually, like Hel

Pan might be fixed now though, since you can dash faster

[civic ocean]

Not to sound like one of those whiners but like gosh darn they sure have killed a lot of my fave builds

Like why have Air Quality and Scorch in the same game if you’re just going to have a special exception to the rule. Tons of people are going to out of the box try AQ scorch and it just won’t work for them and they will have no idea why until they come to this discord specifically

Or ask on a popular streamer’s stream

[elfin forge]

I mean the math of scorch is kind of esoteric I think

[civic ocean]

Intuitively it is a fast ticking low damage effect

[elfin forge]

normal people probably don't think that airquality works with Scorch because they assume it doesn't do individual ticks of damage

[civic ocean]

Really? Like visually the number goes down in small increments

[elfin forge]

they probably assume it's a constant stream of damage

[spiral wadi]

is it still 6 ticks per second

[elfin forge]

yeah, at 16.6 damage

[civic ocean]

Yeah

[elfin forge]

also air quality means you'd have to go a while without ever picking up Pyro Technique, and imo it's just easier to pick that up instead

Remember, Pyro Technique + 1 pom, with origination = Airquality damage

and imo that's just way more accessible

[brave dove]

No, hel just has a lower ICD than usual - 0.05, IIRC, not 0.15

[elfin forge]

weeeeird

[civic ocean]

Yeah and obviously I am super biased but like I think that is good for the game

Where there are different ways you can take the build depending on what you are offered

And at least in Unseen, it was really high value to go for AQ with scorch gales weak/arctic ring sfire static vs just going into PT

And you could make a whole build around that forgoing your offensive Arcana

But who knows perhaps that can still be done

[elfin forge]

you still can, you should just pick up pyro probably

it's basically +power on your scorch

[civic ocean]

No I mean with AQ sorry

Obviously regular scorch builds are still giga strong with PT

[elfin forge]

yeah airquality still works with every other source in the game, which means I think it'll still cook

[civic ocean]

It’s kinda hard to pick up a good primary for it

[civic salmon]

So where are we in the strength vs DD debate?

[elfin forge]

DD good at high fear, strength good without Scars 3, unless you die to instakills a lot somehow

[civic ocean]

I think Death is a lot better than Strength right now

Except for speedruns

[civic salmon]

that's too bad DD stresses me out

[elfin forge]

I don't have scars on so I just prefer strength

stronger healing is just so good

[civic ocean]

I guess we are finally in the era of true scars huh

[elfin forge]

I also don't gotta worry about chasing sources of DD, or DD keepsakes

[civic ocean]

Where you can’t just turn scars on then take Forage and Charity Bottles etc

[elfin forge]

yeah I think it's all patched and fixed

[civic ocean]

Not a very player friendly patch but I like the challenge

[elfin forge]

fixing the rivals bosses is more then enough for me, I think

[uneven palm]

Rip all my cheesy Charity Bottle driven UW 50s

[civic ocean]

Are they nerfed?

[elfin forge]

yeah

[civic ocean]

Oh are they slow

One of the things that seemed apparent is that they were like freakishly fast

[uneven palm]

Poly’s more chill, Heracles is weaker, Eris is way more chill

[civic ocean]

Poly’s grab was some insane stuff

[uneven palm]

Cerb is actually harder now I think

[civic ocean]

I went from having to try really hard to get grabbed to getting grabbed like half the time

[elfin forge]

· : Typhon adjusted behaviors of Chronos, who should no longer teleport in the middle of his strikes; adjusted patterns in final phase
· : Chronos adjusted various behaviors; adjusted hitbox of Swipe attack; no longer heal when affected by Twilight Curse (Selene); now summons only a single Warden
· : Prom adjusted various behaviors of both bosses; Heracles has reduced Life;
· : Cerb updated behaviors in the initial phase
· : Eris adjusted various behaviors; reduced how much of the field gets engulfed in flame
· : Scylla adjusted various behaviors of everyone
· : Polyphemus adjusted various behaviors including his Grab move; Pools now clear nearby poison when used, can be used more frequently, and can no longer can be destroyed
· : Heacte increased effectiveness of mid-phase moves; reduced tracking and hit-stun on projectiles from Dark Side and Sisters of the Dead

reduced hitstun on dark side shots is very good, those were so annoying

[civic ocean]

Dark Side was definitely a “I should run away” moment maybe I can fight it now

[spiral wadi]

hecate's spam attack goes very far very fast but also kinda slow it's very funny

dark side spam is def more manageable now

[civic ocean]

Did they ever adjust prominence flare?

[spiral wadi]

like visually or mechanically

[civic ocean]

Mechanically like does it lock you out of cast forever still

[uneven palm]

It doesn’t block your cast now if that’s what you mean

[spiral wadi]

oh yea you can cast during prom flare now

[uneven palm]

Charon space laser is back baby

[civic ocean]

Oh! That’s really sick. That’s the new Air Quality build!

Circe with gales and prom flare?

I think AQ circe is funny because it buffs the laser

[uneven palm]

Do it with Tidal Ring too and trigger Froth. Getting harder to get AQ online tho

[civic ocean]

Probably just do like rapture or arctic ring

AQ is so easy to get online either path now with the shade giving wind and like 6 gods giving wind

You can start apollo and go nova strike on the staff to get an early wind that also helps your damage while you build the combo and gets prom flare in the pool

Huh so like winner’s circle prom flare is kinda crazy if you have the mana right

[sage flame]

DDs are best because u can use toula consequence free

[uneven palm]

Is Apollo’s gain air? Could be a heard start for Charon

[elfin forge]

can't argue with that

[civic ocean]

I am thinking circe with that gain but that probably works too yeah

Did they buff toula or are we just cat lovers

[elfin forge]

no toula is still bad but is a cat

[civic ocean]

Is Charon still mechanically the same? I noticed the description text changed. Like does it work with Night now?

[sage flame]

im a mild enthusiast

[uneven palm]

Not that I’ve noticed. Unseen patch changed that the casts no longer stay longer

[forest hinge]

i assume they added that cast delay on charon originally to give you extra time to do ur omega special right?

[fervent coyote]

adjusted hitbox of swipe attacks… how?

because if they made it smaller that’s insane for ||phase 3||

since he just mashes that attack like there’s no tomorrow

[civic ocean]

Probably yeah the Ospec on axe was originally a bit slower IIRC

Waaay back in the day we worked on a Local Climate build that used regular O casting on Charon with a super long omega cast that would follow you around

[real rune]

Any advice on what to generally go for with aspect of Nyx ? Looking to give coats a try.

[mental sluice]

For Nyx, you can go pretty far with Hestia or Poseidon on the special. In the options menu, you can set auto fire to toggle and then just hold it down while strafing

[timid jay]

god i love aspect of morrigan

just finished a 10 heat (still starting out dont judge) surface run with 450 hp facetanking literally everything

infinite scorch bc attacks inflict scorch, dash inflicts weak, and the hestia aphrodite duo boon that makes scorch not deplete. Plus a hestia boon that makes scorch go like 175% faster iirc?

[mental sluice]

Shiva really feels like one step forward, two steps back 😅

Overall I think Morrigan is my favorite of the hidden

[timid jay]

Morrigan is the only one I've tried so far but it's my favorite aspect at least over all the base ones for any weapon

[crude needle]

hi folks, what do you guys think about the new incandescent aura so far? just by reading the patch notes it seems worse than before. but just asking.

[mental sluice]

Better in the sense that the range was pretty small, but I don't think it's really something to build around

[crude needle]

since they've changed their duo to incandescent aura I never find myself willing to get it. Feels just as bad as Thermal Dynamics

[crude needle]

yeah, anyway, another skippable duo 🥲

[mental sluice]

Maybe there's some meme build where you find some way to spend and regen a ton of magic really quick? But it would probably be a lot of setup for little payoff

[analog ether]

Um, quick question.

Has anybody used Shiva since the patch?

[atomic ibex]

I have, it feels a lot more fun now

[analog ether]

Is Destruction not supposed to fall off?

[atomic ibex]

It is now a one time buff for your next omega attack

[mental sluice]

I think it handles a bit better, but my initial impression is still pretty eh on it

[analog ether]

Ah. I see now.

[empty musk]

I have hope for its gimmick being reworked like this but rn with the old magic cost and stack scaling it's not really practical unless you're naturally using the omega special regardless of destructive

[atomic ibex]

Basically, the Shiva build is now: take Night, get Exceptional Talent. Then fire your Omega Special, and charge your Omega Attack while in the reticle

The omega attack deals a lot of damage, since 300 + 150% plus 15% Crit is very strong

[empty musk]

Born/flood gain with a ton of magic is prob the most important part of that, although you can make lucid, ionic or tranquil work

[real rune]

Oh, i was under the impression going for the poseidon attack was better. Oh well, i still got the auto-special hammer with hestia.

[mental sluice]

Wave strike + Exhaust Riser might be better. But using specials might be safer.

[real rune]

Yeah, auto-firing the special definitely helped play the ranged game in some instances.

I'll try a more special focused build next.

[uneven palm]

Exhaust Riser Poseidon doesn’t do 6x waves anymore sadly

[analog ether]

I will say this about Shiva: if you get a good Gain, it's very good at proccing Righteous Pike.

[civic ocean]

Wouldn't Born Gain on a high mana pool deal stupid damage with Incandescent Aura?

[analog ether]

Okay, Rivals Eris is stupidly easy now.

[uneven palm]

She seems harder to kill, but far less likely to kill you.

[analog ether]

The last couple of times that I've fought her? She basically seemed incapable of aiming thanks to her new attack patterns.

[gusty ore]

Was doing really well on the Great Chaos Above trial till I got the White Antler keepsake in the final region 💀

[keen vapor]

Whats a very efficient build to speedrun the surface? No vows, I just gotta farm some ressources and find a specific mob

[cerulean panther]

Aspect of Medea, start with Thunder Bangle, look for Heaven Flourish, look for any Strike boon from an Olympian that gives Origination. Ares and Hera typically pop off hardest.

[desert shell]

With air quality, is pressure points or support fire preferable?

[cerulean panther]

PP is going to be better the vast majority of the time, if you've got something that hits a lot Support Fire might get you farther.

[keen vapor]

Thanks!

[uneven estuary]

any nightmare config suggestion for 32 and 24 heat ? that statue is the last thing to do for me D:

[uneven palm]

Take as much Time as you can, ideally maxed. Don’t touch Hordes or Void or Forfeit. Think hard about Wards or Grit. I’d probably do some Rivals now but maybe not maxed. I wouldn’t do debt on the Surface.

[barren marsh]

Why did they gut supay 😭

[stuck ether]

Its still good

[barren marsh]

is hestia still good on supay special

[uneven palm]

Probably. It’s been like 10 hours. Try it out.

[stuck ether]

Unsure but you just get hestia sprint and win

[timber pawn]

Experimenting is fun

[barren marsh]

oh my god you're right

this just melts everything

I've never considered that it would do so much damage

[stuck ether]

Was even better pre nerf but alas things happen

[spice orchid]

i just unlocked supay post nerf. what is still a decent build with this aspect?

i imagine hera is busted still

[stuck ether]

Hestia sprint and then stack whatever you want
Poseidon sprint may still be good damage im unsure

[spiral wadi]

anyone got cool circe builds that don't focus on winner's circle?

[spice orchid]

thanks

[stuck ether]

Air quality and zeus cast i think?
Unfortunately the best cast builds will have winner’s circle

[spiral wadi]

yeaa i've been building lots of circe runs with winner's circle and omegas, just that today i had bad luck not getting winner's circle at all even with rerolls

was thinking to maybe get hestia cast but problem is that if the casts overlap it doesn't count towards multiple scorch application

[real rune]

Is sprint the main source of damage for this aspect ? Really ?

[stuck ether]

It specifically buffs the famage of your sprint

[spice orchid]

just finished my first run with it. i feel like poseidon's spring kind of sucks. you have to keep dashing again. maybe zeus sprint is better?

[mental sluice]

I think Hestia, Zeus, and even Demeter work pretty well

[edgy nacelle]

zeus is nice and there are lots of ways to buff it! duos with hera and/or poseidon, double strike, etc
hestia's new dash is also very solid but there are fewer ways to specifically buff it
those are the main ones imo. but also tbh you can ignore the dash damage buff and focus on the auto fire part if you want to 🤷
poseidon feels annoying for the exact reason you described, but ig beach ball is an option? ares with the blade duos could be interesting too, but also suffers from "you can't just hold sprint"

[proven cradle]

hello, was wondering if someone could help, i was wondering what lets me restore all my magic after i leave an area. I dont see any boon or card that does it so was wondeing where it is coming from

[edgy nacelle]

as far as I know this is just automatic and isn't caused by anything (other than being a default part of how magick works overall ig)!
magick will always restore to full when you enter a new location. if you want effects which come from not having full magick (like the huntress arcana card) you need to use some at the start of every room to trigger that

[proven cradle]

got ya i could not remeber thought i would double check thanks

[willow phoenix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNRh5mr0_-8
New Shiva fun, but destruction not even worth stacking above 1 stack unless you have Counter Supreme tbh. Just O attack most mobs and O special + O attack bosses

[urban blade]

Cant believe the wand only has one orb going round now

[tawdry knoll]

Good builds against Rivals Eris? Getting wrecked by her

[real rune]

You mean Supay ? Heard it's still pretty good

[tall notch]

From my experience moros annihilates her

[jagged zinc]

nice hex lmao

[robust prism]

moros annihilates everything in general

[willow phoenix]

Triple Apollo ray goated

[urban blade]

The new one that auto fires

[glass bone]

I know this is several levels of awful in the eyes of other players going for 32 heat, but the way I beat 32 Fear Underworld was with Anubis (and later Persephone) against;

• Wards 2
• Frenzy 2
• Hordes 2
• Menace 2
• Fangs 2
• Debt 2
• Shadow
• Rivals 3

This is to say, Yes, it’s possible to do other “easy” configurations of 32 Fear without Timer. That being said, I think it’s a skill issue on my part, because Frenzy 2 makes R3 Underworld harder a lot more than the other bosses in this set up, and Hordes + Wards makes R2 Underworld harder significantly.

[uneven estuary]

thanks, already did both yesterday 😛 the first run went really broken cause, i end with all arcana actives after the 3º boss xP

pink pig make my 32 heat run ToT

[glass bone]

That’ll do it. Nice work!

[brave dove]

doing it without Time 3 is just kinda harder than other options

Frenzy 2 being a temperature adjustment is similar

[glass bone]

Yeah… I think I need to find a better combination for Surface 32 and gaining 32 on other weapons. Originally I had the idea of switching out Wards and Frenzy for Timer 2 and Rivals 4, but the setup I had listed would then bring it to 31 Fear, not 32.

[sonic burrow]

Hey guys! Gonna play hades 2 again with the new update. What are the best builds for now? Thanks

[daring nexus]

Is there a way to actually make the Coat's Omega Attack feel good? 🤔

[plush vapor]

nop

[glass bone]

Prior to yesterday’s patch, Scorch was extremely strong, and could generally be slapped onto most builds. As for now, I think the way to view the “meta” is “What is the best build for x, y, or z weapon?” (E.g. old reliable blitz + hitch combo on Medea, Lucid Gain + Cast boons on Charon, etc.).
But if you really want to know what weapons will be stronger this patch; Black Coat has been buffed across the board (though Hidden Aspect Coat has… mixed opinions).

[snow portal]

Just had a run with Chaos Affluence + Quick Buck + Travel Deal, money

[glass bone]

And as for personal opinions; I am in love with the Staves and Skulls as of late. Persephone / Medea Skull, and Circe / Hidden Aspect Staves respectively. Medea and Hidden Aspect Staff were nerfed slightly in this most recent patch (explosion detection radius reduced slightly on Medea, and the scorch nerf proxy nerfs Hidden Aspect Staff), but both are still really good.

[tall notch]

Anvil ring circe staff plays itself

[glass bone]

That one is a favorite, but Circe staff is also flexible (as in you don’t need to always run Anvil Ring if you don’t like it / gain it quickly). Arguably all casts are good on Circe, and you can do some shenanigans with stuff like Arctic Gale, Hostile Environment, etc.

[tall notch]

Anvil ring is such just a good all rounder. Good aoe, good single target

I love it on circe

[real rune]

Looking to get into coat aspect.

I'd love to see some high level footage for Nyx and Selene. Maybe even Mel, even though i think i know how it would work.

[tall notch]

https://youtu.be/X8EbzKUJ6bk will this do?

[real rune]

Oh, @tall notch commenting just before me. Maybe you could help a bro ?

Damn, with the SWIFTNESS !

[tall notch]

It's from previous patch but the playstyle is the same. You're just more powerful because they buffed Nyx

[real rune]

You recognize someone who's been zooming around with them jetpacks. Appreciated.

58 FEAR ? DAYUM ?

[tall notch]

Cheers! Feel free to update me on your Nyx journey

[real rune]

I'm still in the single digits

[real rune]

Will do for sure 💪

[tall notch]

I have some other coats footage on the channel but it's a few patches old so idk how relevant it will be

[brave dove]

you still run scorch on all the weapons you did before and you still don't run it on all the weapons you didn't

it was slightly overtuned in the sense that those aspects were overperforming slightly as a result, not in the sense that you were taking it on axe

also the coat buff is mostly placebo the base attack numbers have not changed the patch notes are as best as I can tell just lying about that

[tall notch]

I'm not sure if I'm still a believer in it on Anubis. Reg attack isn't fast enough to apply it and with oattack I'm feeling like you may have better options

[real rune]

@tall notch i see punches and rockets at the same time. You're pressing both buttons ?

[brave dove]

I do think regular attack applies it fast enough, but the only real competitor is like, blitz

[tall notch]

Autofire, hold down special tap attack sometimes

[brave dove]

and with blitz you still want hestia cast to try and swing thermal dynamics

[real rune]

Oooooh so that's how it goes. I remember mashing both buttons without the autofire when trying the weapon against skelly. But it felt clunky.

[tall notch]

I'm not a high fear Anubis player but I'm really vibing with hera. It's a way better engagement ring

[brave dove]

my experience with using multipliers instead of added damage on anubis has just been not great

[tall notch]

The oattack does actually hit hard if you can get one off

[brave dove]

yeah but it also like, doubles your tick rate with added damage

I think the actual secret sauce for the oattack is Cut Above

[tall notch]

Yeah the tech for using both at once is kinda weird, and I think you can only use first hit of the attack combo

[brave dove]

I don't know the tech I just spam ospecial on selene-

lance of ares kills everything anyway

[tall notch]

Are you still trying to make that happen in 58f?

[brave dove]

I haven't played for a few days since a) heat wave b) I've been hijacked for some other games but that's the plan

[tall notch]

I've got a pet build that I really really wanna do high fear with but i just can't play bosses with Nergal 😭
In 58f rooms I'm actually immortal

[brave dove]

I'll swing a relatively easy rivals 3 50f and then go for old 50 + rivals 3

should be doable now my controller isn't making me dodge arbitrarily

and now they've reduced unrivaled hecate's ability to waste your damn time 😩

[brave dove]

true pet build is toula circe, btw

'can toula solo chronos'

[real rune]

Yeah, i was taping both buttons at delayed intervals as to only get the first hit of the attack combo.

[tall notch]

I'll need to get used to that, I'd just kite her a lot of the time when she wanted to time waste. Two can play that game lol

[brave dove]

I'd get teleported on and run out the timer

[tall notch]

Yeah I think autofire and holding down special is better

[tall notch]

Timer is only a suggestion anyway

[brave dove]

death defiances are for tanking the timer when it runs out

[real rune]

So, max fear is 62, right ? Guess it was 58 before and then the 4 new rivals ? Is that it ?

[brave dove]

67

it's just no one likes running void so 58 and 62 are the goals for most people

[real rune]

Good

67 is an ugly number anyways

58 and 62 sound better lol

The jump from 58 to 62 are the rivals ?

[brave dove]

rivals 3->rivals 4

[real rune]

Oh, i forgot every level adds different fear values

The rival final bosses are that crazy, huh ?

[glass bone]

I think it’s mainly because of the Frenzy. Rival Chronos’s main difficulty spike imo is Phase 3, because of the constant lasers. Rival Typhon is harder throughout (there’s this tongue attack in Rivals that is just nasty to manage at times), but Phase 3 can also be tough if you aren’t used it to it. Frenzy makes these attacks so much worse to dodge.

I beat these two very little compared to others though, so my opinion is not as an expert but just as a guess. Getting to 62, I think it would be best to practice the Rival ends without Frenzy, and slowly add Frenzy back.

[real rune]

Increased attack speed definitely the most questionable modifier. It's not even a git gud situation. It just looks weird is all.

And maybe feels a bit lazy of a modifier.

[tall notch]

To me lots of h2 swings felt delayed without frenzy

[real rune]

That's not even taking into account all the BS that can come with it.

Oh, so you think the game feels better with frenzy speed wise ?

[tall notch]

Oh they've actually addressed that in yesterday's patch. I didn't get to play around with it a whole lot but I appreciate Hecate's sheep projectile being slowed down

[real rune]

Nice to see they're still balancing stuff like frenzy and its implications. Just slap 2x/4x speed on it would be problematic.

[frail pier]

Hey guys, just wanted to ask how godsent works now, cause my favorite boon is the moonbeam and always start off runs with it

do i still gotta have that specific god in my boons before I get the moon ability or after?

[olive tusk]

you need to have specific god in your boons to get moon ability

[frail pier]

aw man aity then

[analog osprey]

is the only method of consuming all scorch stacks at once really jus demeter/hestia? feel bad if your build can cap scorch

[half kindle]

Best boons for Artemis Sister Blades? I'm thinking Ares and Hephaestus but idk who else

[quartz parrot]

How do you get level 6 aspects

[tawdry knoll]

Only by getting Hephs Legendary in a run I believe

[solemn loom]

Still missing ~18 aspects. If you have VS of 32+ fear ping

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1272385014150991875/1390329176585670739/Screenshot_2025-07-03_at_9.51.23_AM.png?ex=6867dc72&is=68668af2&hm=7dcc845e71850eca92e134bd4cc1ecd132673311c69af878414d9fc0b5065e62&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1131&height=896

[nimble prism]

Anyone has a build for morrigan?

[lone mirage]

if i get gift gift gift on expe hammer do i gain another hammer?

[wintry jacinth]

What does the omega attack on the staff of Anubis do? I'm finding it hard to tell

[lone mirage]

the same as regular attack but smaller area and more damage

[wintry jacinth]

Ooh, okay! thanks so much!

[lone mirage]

np

[wintry jacinth]

I assume so, though that's just a guess

[lone mirage]

yea it worked, thats op

[wintry jacinth]

nice

if u get the daedelus anvil at charon's last shop, that could leave u with 5 hammers right? wild

[sick tide]

Do people go for air quality regularly on Anubis to help the attack?

[real rune]

What's the consensus on the easiest fear mods to run for a beginner ?

[tough pasture]

shiva aspect is now much better. i like the change. i'm starting to understand how to use the coat's different aspects in better...

[rain wagon]

Vow of Time 1 is pretty much free, 2 is trivial if you learn to play fast and pause game when making decisions.
Vow of Shadow and Vow of Fang I find extemely easy as well for how many points you get.
Vow of Hordes is also easy.
Pain, Frenzy, Scars are a few to avoid, as they'll make it extremely deadly.

[glass bone]

The absolute easiest fear mod imo is Menace. A way to explain why I think this is that the mod affects approximately 25% of the enemies in 3/4 areas at Rank 2.
Then there are the mods to start practicing. Lots of options; Rivals, Frenzy, Time, and Denial I think affects the game the most, so practicing some of those are good. You could also practice Forfeit, but know that Surface Forfeit is easier to manage than Underworld Forfeit, because Ephyra is filled with Major Finds, while the Surface can have you waiting several rooms before your first boon.

[vital ledge]

frenzy 1 is fine, 2 can be deadly.
hordes bad, never pick it

[rain wagon]

Oh yeah, Rivals is also hard, very fun though.

Huh, I've never found hordes an issue.

Depends on aspect I guess.

[real rune]

Funnily enough, my first fear point i cleared with was frenzy. Little did i know it's not usually advised to go for it as a beginner. 😆

[vital ledge]

I mean, I did that too 😛
it just becomes very evil if you add more stuff like elites having 2 skills or... hordes

[glass bone]

Hordes can become an issue in a few different ways.

1. Timer. More enemies means less time for you to clear the region.
2. The Vows of Rivals, Wards, Pain, Grit, Menace, Frenzy, and Return all affect the additional enemies. People will often take some of these vows, so Hordes makes them harder.
3. I’d like to highlight Underworld Rival 2 as a real pain point. I’ve done thus far Persephone and Anubis on 32 Heat with Wards, Frenzy, and Hordes 2. The swarm of stingers and the blade jellyfish is a nightmare by the end, and I built my build to have a good amount of AoE.

[rain wagon]

Hitch from Hera can make both Hordes and Wards a non-issue in my experience.

[real rune]

Yeah, i cleared with it but i knew adding other mods on top is what will really make it deadly. I know my place lol. 😆

[vital ledge]

can we at least agree that "enemies from next region" is the very first thing that makes sense? 🙂
still not sure why we get 3 fear from that. other than automatons on the ships, there is nothing to worry about with this vow

[brave dove]

I would actually strongly advise turning frenzy on early

[glass bone]

Actually, yeah… maybe that’s the issue. I needed something like Flash Fry or more hitch for that fight.

[brave dove]

as early as possible even — it's basically unnoticeable once you adjust, but there is an adjustment period

Hordes is an absolutely awful vow because it multiplies the effect of other vows

[rain wagon]

Going back and forth between 0 frenzy and 2 frenzy is not fun, yeah.

[brave dove]

it also screws you on time

[real rune]

Whoever thought about the small fish swarm at the end of the scylla fight is PURE EVIL.

The intent to be annoying AF to the player is as clear as the sky. 😆

[rain wagon]

If you're aiming for really high fears, I'd also recommend doing frenzy 2 from the start

[brave dove]

hordes is usually one of the last things you turn on, you won't see 32 fear setups that are sane with it

I would honestly turn scars 3 on first

[glass bone]

Can confirm. I am not a sane person /j, kinda…

[rain wagon]

Huh, people really find Hordes that troublesome? I found it to be nearly 3 free fear when I pushed for my statues.

[real rune]

Yeah, that was the second one i picked. I was like "i'm fighting them later anyways. What difference does it make ?".

[brave dove]

hordes has a strongly multiplicative effect with grit, wards, fangs and return

[real rune]

Maybe it's build/weapon dependent ?

[brave dove]

These are roughly what I'd do for 16, 32 and then 50:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/874854721968541736/1390348752597946421/image.png?ex=6867eeae&is=68669d2e&hm=8ad1ef1f21d77b975b40479bb13122319157eaaad42e06872ac4cfb5e4d1d00d&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/874854721968541736/1390348660172259379/image.png?ex=6867ee98&is=68669d18&hm=34cd77daba8a92fcaf0d1482b161355c14dbf6680816880c70153a6dfdbc3de2&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/874854721968541736/1390348578697904148/image.png?ex=6867ee84&is=68669d04&hm=edb07117c070eb0f81cbd1da54bb1bf8d125840bad7a34f28177d0658f3f2ef9&

[rain wagon]

I would not recommend Time 3 for a beginner, yikes.

[brave dove]

time 3 is genuinely just not hard

frenzy 2 actually helps with it as well

[vital ledge]

I think a lot of the bad vows are "fine" with 1 point, but become really bad with more than one.
hubris as an example doesn't change anything with 1, but might mess you up with 2

[brave dove]

faster boss transitions and, in this patch, faster spawn in rates

[vital ledge]

you really don't like return don't you hah. I just got used to having it on at all times

[brave dove]

unless you are Very Fast do not combine return and time 3 and time 3 is worth more fear

[vital ledge]

if I don't pick anything up, it's still not as bad as hordes

[brave dove]

thankfully we can avoid both-

[glass bone]

Why not take Menace at 16? I’d prefer trading Timer 3 for Menace 2 as a start of 16.

[brave dove]

denial, time and frenzy are essentially meaningless vows once you adjust to them outside of like, zeus and hera for denial

speedrunners run denial sometimes to force boons more reliably

(doesn't work on legendaries or duos, don't try, but for stuff like poseidon's froth enhancer it's good)

[olive tusk]

timer 3 is genuinely not that hard, you really just need to get over that first bit of uncomfortableness

chances are, you already do your runs about as fast, when the builds are good

[brave dove]

and if you don't, pausing when you're dithering over which door to take probably makes up for the rest

[olive tusk]

yes, this was the biggest hurdle, I really needed to create that pausing muscle memory

[brave dove]

also frenzy 2 makes vow of rivals substantially snarlier, particularly chronos, but vow of rivals 4 isn't the easiest way to do any kind of fear

[olive tusk]

frenzy 2 chronos felt impossible, but my runs were doomed anyways as usually i come to chronos after getting absolutely whooped by cerb
I'm not sure if i should keep brute forcing frenzy 2 or try to master the fights without it first

[vital ledge]

I'm still on team timer 2 until 40+. suggesting this for 16 fear is just killing runs for no reason

[olive tusk]

I mean, it's fine, it's just a suggestion

modify it to your taste

[brave dove]

you will lose more real playtime to other vows than you will learning time 3 which is just, genuinely not difficult

the hardest part is erebus because oceanus always gives you a huge buffer of time

for the surface it is harder because thessaly is awful

but a 3:30 ephyra is not hard to learn and will give you enough buffer only the worst possible thessaly can screw you

and actually I think they made that thessaly impossible with the unseen update

it forces a free room if you haven't had one by a certain point

[robust prism]

agreed, it's okay-ish in underworld depending on what else you have but timer 3 surface is not good

[glass bone]

Agreed. As stated by others before, there are many ways to do 32. It’s the prime benchmark for the average players. There are “weird” ways to do it, but a 32 win is a 32 win.

[olive tusk]

time 3 on thessaly is a hit or miss, i usually end my surface runs if I fail to get a really good build going by the polyphemus fight

[vital ledge]

I'm playing 36 with all aspects at the moment and I notice how much harder each individual fear is (without timer 3), just because I have to pick bad stuff. that's why I said the timer3 around 40 fear thing. at this point even I can not say that it is bad to take it

[olive tusk]

timer 3 is a must after 32 fear I agree, and if you are skilled enough to be consistent above 32, you are def skilled enough to handle the timer

[glass bone]

Okay, I think I figured out the “worst” option for 32; Void 2/3 for RNG Judgment Runs.

But again, if someone wants to do it, then good for them. I’d never do that, ever. No thanks…

[civic ocean]

People think Time 3 is about playing faster but it’s mostly about decision making IMO

Knowing what are the fast and slow rooms and how to take them makes way more difference IMO

[glass bone]

Actually, I’m reminded of a thing I saw earlier in this chat. 67 Fear compared to 64 feels off (in terms of a max fear number).
So if people want something more well rounded, then here could be a feedback to share; shift Void and Menace’s Fear amounts to create an even 70.

As in; remove 1 fear from Menace 2, then make Void Ranks be 1, 2, 3, 4.

[real rune]

My clear times are around the 20 minutes right now with no fear at all. Time 3 would probably be too much for me.

[vital ledge]

see and picking the room that is "faster" makes you weaker in the end. way easier to pick up more boons and deal with whatever vow is worth 3. on timer 2 you don't go into a shop without having cash, you pick the other room

or... "I" do that. do the trial with 2 free boons instead of walking past charon doing nothing.
that's what I meant

[civic ocean]

Sometimes, like it’s looking at a centaur heart room vs a boon room and being like “art or nem can show up if I take heart here”

[real rune]

Yeah, 32 will be my goal for now. Then we'll go from there.

I remember doing 30 something heat in hades 1. Not sure how it compares to fear 32.

[civic ocean]

In erebus

[real rune]

I was the one who said 67 was an ugly number lol. Triggers my OCD. 😂

[olive tusk]

I believe in john supergiant

69 fear in the final release incoming

[vital ledge]

would be nice

[glass bone]

I was thinking that too, but I’m not certain what could be buffed. +2 to a Void rank could be it.

[sly plaza]

Aight new Shiva might actually be a banger

[brave dove]

32-40 fear is genuinely nuts, you're running things like pain 3 over time 3 then

[vital ledge]

more than pain 1 is too much for me. I can tell you that

[brave dove]

bwuh

I'm like 80% sure at this point you're running a 36 about as hard as my 45s, what are you running?

[civic ocean]

Oh I figured they were just running Rivals

Isnt Rivals Time2 hubris denial fangs frenzy shadow wandering like 36 or smth already

Oh and scarsh

[brave dove]

rivals 4 over time 3 is actually insane as an 'easiest' setup

[civic ocean]

Though idk I guess scars you dont add till later now that its less cheatable

[brave dove]

it's only plentiful forage and charity bottle that got the boot, the rest still work AIUI

[brazen ore]

I got my 32 wins and am trying to push higher but denial scawy

[brave dove]

denial is only actually an outright negative for zeus and hera builds

[civic ocean]

You need to learn the pencil mera

[brave dove]

you can manipulate it with rerolls to be a positive with practice otherwise

[brazen ore]

i love zeus builds lol

[civic ocean]

pencil meta pog

[brave dove]

(most of the time)

[brazen ore]

whats pencil meta

[brave dove]

also void being actually fear efficient is just kind of bad for the game is the reason they don't do that

[vital ledge]

that's what I use, I should man up to use frenzy2 now that bosses aren't that impossible anymore.
https://ibb.co/XfHFXbsb

[brave dove]

time 3 frenzy 2 would let you drop wards, hordes, scars, debt and return entirely

[brazen ore]

also frenzy 2 scawy a bit but i do need to turn it on for sures. i can do frenzy 1 fine so hoping 2 isnt that horrible

[vital ledge]

and make me reset if the build isn't good heh.

[brave dove]

you've got the oath you can salute for a starting heroic ez

it takes like two minutes tops if you're willing to reroll 2-3 times a try

(this isn't true btw but if you feel it is, resetting for a starting heroic is pretty fun anyway, it doesn't take long)

[brazen ore]

how does it change with onion? like do u not take god boon in bc it wont matter?

[brave dove]

I usually just don't reset unless I get a genuinely dire first 5 rewards with onion

it's part of why it's one of the harder vows, you can't pretty trivially get a starting heroic

[vital ledge]

or you don't reset and play the game instead

[brave dove]

well, for UW anyway, surface doesn't mind onion that much though it does make thessaly Even Worse

[brazen ore]

do you still take god keepsake in erebus, like does it still add the god to your pool if it gets onioned?

[brave dove]

it doesn't but you'll see them later

but yeah there's non-god keepsake erebus strats, including a funny antler toula one

[brazen ore]

seeing them later is what i meant by adding the god to your pool

Noo antler 😭 i still need to get good

[real rune]

https://tenor.com/view/perfection-perfect-michael-fassbender-magneto-x-men-first-class-gif-2260686001358167676

[brave dove]

the antler one is actually a crutch strategy if you're having issues beating the timer on ultra high fear erebus (a pretty common issue once you start piling on all the vows that waste your time)

you take antler, four DDs including Toula and you spend them all in erebus, deliberately lose them to hecate at the end if you still have them

and then you take athena in oceanus and get four 60% death defiances for the rest of the run

[brazen ore]

(Honestly my 32 UW run nearly ended at hecate due to timer 3 and it was entirely my fault bc i kept grabbing seeds)

[brave dove]

you can try for chaos's legendary boon for five but that's the ultimate high roll

[brazen ore]

Oh interesting fun. I do like the idea of that strat lol i have deliberately lost dds for athena before

[civic ocean]

Now that heph works so much with armor I wonder about using him with antler

[brave dove]

antler and heph have always been buds

[cinder palm]

So errr just saw the patch how are the supayers doing?

[brazen ore]

Everything Will Be Okay

[cinder palm]

They took supay out back and gave it a round of rail 😔

I'm liking shiva and anubis new hammer a lot tho

[real rune]

Yesterday ? : 😭😭😭

Today :

[brazen ore]

Im not that mad at supay nerf. I'm interested with the idea that % boons are viable on it. I am mad at what they did to shiva and i wish supay rush boon had been left alone

[analog ether]

I swear, it feels like they seriously increased the number of projectiles you have to face. And made them all homing.

[real rune]

https://tenor.com/view/maybe-i-was-overreacting-a-little-bit-randy-marsh-south-park-s22e1-dead-kids-gif-20327716

[cinder palm]

Yeah rush(or sprint build in general) hasn't really recovered from that last round of rewords ngl

I miss the old thunder sprint build sm

[brazen ore]

i dont really think it needed all that done to it. But i also didnt think pan needed all that done to it either. So maybe i have brain worms

[real rune]

Like, there were builds that kill stuff by just running around ?

[cinder palm]

Yeah the old thunder sprint that uses magic while constantly shoot lightning + double strike was so good

[real rune]

A normal sprint that uses magic ? Only thing i know is the omega sprint from Nyx

[brazen ore]

which i dont honestly think is that crazy for a weapon that you've had to put a ton of time and effort into the game to unlock. But it had like 3-4 builds that were fun with it so tbh it felt like a much more flexible weapon than some of the others that are like, if you don't get this specific combo and this specific duo then say goodbye to your run

[brazen ore]

Patched out in warsong

[real rune]

I see

[cinder palm]

The lockout nerf feels uneeded ngl

[real rune]

Can't make all weapons into swiss knives though. Makes the flexible weapon cooler when it exists.

[brazen ore]

It does, which is why I'm sad that it doesn't quite exist anymore

[cinder palm]

You know I haven't tried the good ol than axe + aphro attack combo in a while now

I wonder how it holds up

[brazen ore]

i would not know, i have not ever been an axe enjoyer tbh

[cinder palm]

Same, the only one I really liked was charon

[brazen ore]

I went down to the underworld with nergal for the fated list and had a simply dreadful time

[cinder palm]

The attacks are actually unusable for me but I enjoyed spamming the omega special tho

[brazen ore]

I was in my learning to play with frenzy era and probably should've turned it off for nergal lol i didnt enjoy at all

[stuck ether]

The rush boon was the strongest part of supay

[real rune]

When you expect to bonk, but get bonked instead

[brazen ore]

I know but it was also imo the most fun and interesting. But i dont think supay was as broken as everybody thought so I didnt think it needed extremely substantial nerfs

[stuck ether]

It was not broken

[brazen ore]

Ok yeah. Then yeah I wish theyd left the rush boon aspect alone even if they did give it an orchi

[dim kelp]

So, I've been playing around with Shiva in the training range, and all of the regular moves seem to do less damage than I expected until I use an omega. Doesn't seem to matter which omega I use, or whether it hits anything, but after using it, the regular move damage increases by ~42% and stays that way until I switch to another weapon and switch back. Is that supposed to happen?

The higher damage numbers match what I remember from last patch values without any destructive stacks, but maybe the difference was always there and I just never noticed because I'm always opening with an o-special?

[timber pawn]

Do you have strength and huntress on

[glass bone]

Going for 32 Fear with Moros Torches. Any advice on gods/boons to aim for?

[night lagoon]

Does Ares Legendary double the MP you get from Grisly Gain?

[dim kelp]

Ohh, it’s probably Huntress, you’re right. I don’t usually play with that, so I completely forgot it was a thing

Shouldn’t it be 50% more damage tho?

Oh, it must be additive with strength

[timber pawn]

Correct that is the math!

[sudden inlet]

Shiva is allegedly good with The Night now but I'm not feeling it

[brazen ore]

I really hate how the oattack feels to use

[dim kelp]

I didn’t realize the buffs were additive, so the non-“nice” number threw me off I think

[stuck turret]

TIL chaos can give free DD https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/989422318528909384/1390391334577246259/image.png?ex=68681656&is=6866c4d6&hm=c0ffeae02be419ed7f88f046662c1b4e5e2e809a2d810f4dc469b04a4d75c900&

[rugged holly]

does anyone know if cutting edge aplies on cut above's blades?

[brazen ore]

and I hate the gameplay loop of stand around waiting for 1 minute and using 400 mana so you can maybe do one big hit

[dim kelp]

Yep, it applies to all of the falling blade effects

[sudden inlet]

It's just not an aspect that at all feels good, tbqh.

[brazen ore]

i really kinda laughed when i saw that ospecial mana requirement was tuned down to 45 from 50. like the extra 5 mana was the issue

[dim kelp]

You can actually fill Ares’ side of the duo requirement with just Cutting Edge, no blade-fall core required

[willow phoenix]

it's not like you have max out the destruction stack lol

tbh Shiva is completely fine without the destruction buff and trying to stack the destruction can probably instead ruin the experience. I wish they change that since 6 stack is too much to ever bother stacking outside of Counter Supreme

[dim kelp]

This is a very good question that I would love to know the answer to. I kinda suspect not, as I don’t think the text specifies any interaction with the mana gain

[brazen ore]

you don't have to but then if i'm not engaging with the destruction buff why bother 1) maxing out the weapon and 2) playing shiva at all instead of any of the other coats

[dim kelp]

Do the 4 stacks of destructive earned by the block apply to that o-attack?

[willow phoenix]

yes, your destruction stack is consumed on O attack hitting

[dim kelp]

So you could play it as an o-attack spam weapon with that hammer now? Assuming you had the magick to sustain that

[willow phoenix]

point 1 is valid, but Shiva has a whole new different kit compared to normal coat. Your attacks and specials are completely different and much better compared to base coat

[willow phoenix]

you can honestly play it without the hammer tbh, but having Counter Supreme allows you to actually stack Destruction. The way Shiva O attack works makes it just so much better to spam compared to base coat

[brazen ore]

i might try again while ignoring the destruction mechanic, but I do quite like mel coat and shiva coat without destruction felt like worse mel

cause i'm never really going oh boy, i can't wait to figure out whether this damage is unblockable or not!

[dim kelp]

Makes sense. I really want to figure this weapon out, because I love the bull rush, and the basic special-attack sequence feels way better to me than on the regular coat aspects

[willow phoenix]

I've been enjoying just putting Apollo on attack and spamming O attack. For bosses you can then alternate O special then O attack for Night buff

[brazen ore]

the "block" is really rough on it imo because by the time you see the little red "unblockable" pop up on your screen, you've already taken a lot of damage and depending on what's going on in the fight, you might not even be sure what triggered it

[sudden inlet]

I'm back to trying to figure out a good Arcana setup for higher Fear than I'm used to ( usually around 12 ) since I need to grind out these Testaments.

[brazen ore]

what do you currently use

[civic ocean]

Most Arcana kinda just does what it says on the box so like what you value as a player is easily represented there

[brave dove]

do you want some advice or do you want me to just show you a meta layout?

[civic ocean]

Is excellence meta yet that card seems real good now

Like if you want a legendary its such better odds no

[brave dove]

that +50% is additive for rares and multiplicative for legendaries

[civic ocean]

Oh lame

So still good just not cracked

[brave dove]

excellence's main issue is if you're running a queen layout you have to give up either origination or boatman

and in non queen setups you usually give up origination for like, lovers/artificer and night/persistence/huntress

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think it depends on your build but if you don’t easily toss down two curses I think excellence can exceed 50% additive damage in value

But it’s like even harder to evaluate now

[brazen ore]

i think excellence's best use case is if you know you want to fish for apollo legendary or king tide or something

[brave dove]

yeah but even in that case like, you're not that much more likely to find it

like you're better off banking rerolls to use once you meet the prereqs

[civic ocean]

Kind of - IMO it’s really good with gods that offer non pommable boons or have options that scale with Rarity really well

So like Hermes Artemis Athena Dio Chaos etc

[brazen ore]

Yeah, that's just possibly the only case where I see it being really worth it. Though I guess I haven't done the numbers on where it would be worth it if you just really need rare boons

I'm not sure which options scale best with rarity

Man, this makes me want to break out a spreadsheet. I'm cooked.

[civic ocean]

I did this back when I took Excellence and Unseen to 50f underworld in warsong

[brazen ore]

Wait share the spreadsheet tho

Inquiring minds want to know

[civic ocean]

Let me fire up my PC and pull it out

TLDR it’s pretty mid except for like hyper specific builds that care about omega speeds etc

Im an Origination hater though (less so now that Strength is nerfed) so I might even be too biased

[brazen ore]

! why are you an origination hater. You are so bold and brave for that

[sudden inlet]

Either or

[glass bone]

I’m not at all an expert, but I have cleared up to 32 Fear on 3 different weapons, and I have seen some videos and discussions about this, so I can give a quick answer.

1. Pick 1 of either Death or Strength. The topic of Death vs. Strength, in my opinion, is a bell curve (save for speedrunning). Death is really good in the low fears (because it gives you protection against Chronos One-Shots), and high fears (Death overall gives more survivability than Strength iirc with Scars 3 enabled). Strength’s protection is that each health point is valued more, so if you don’t run Scars (which you shouldn’t at 12 Fear), I’d go with Strength.
2. The bottom right corner is super important. Boatman gives you +300 gold (which is worth at-least 1 boon), and the Fate Die are super good for finding different Olympians or rewards.
3. Pick some form of survivability and damage. Origination as mentioned is super good (it also gets “buffed” by Denial, in that you are forced to gain other olympians rather than gaining a whole bunch of boons from one or two). For survivability, if you choose Sorceress and want to have Centaur, I’d argue to pick 1 of 3; Wayward Son, Messenger, or Swift Runner. And on that topic;
4. Try to go for Divinity, and Queen if you can. Choosing Wayward Son means you should go for Death to complete Divinity Column; Choosing Messenger I guess would be Artificer, Huntress, and Strength; and Choosing Swift Runner means you can go for either Death or Strength so long as you use Sorceress and Furies.

[brazen ore]

I am an origination adorer

I see little spark next to enemy health bar, I feel happy

[glass bone]

I really hope I didn’t miss much (or anything) in that, but the stuff I chose for my 32 Fear runs thus far is;
Sorceress, Wayward Son, Furies, Persistence, Death, Origination, Lovers, Enchantress, Boatman, Champions (which then overall gave the 0’s of Centaur, Queen, Fates, and Divinity).

It’s not the meta (Swift Runner and Strength I think are used by most over Wayward Son and Death respectively, though again, topic of Death vs Strength is debated still; and Furies/Persistence is sometimes switched out for Huntress), but I have succeeded thrice, so it works ig.

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tt8KD_wCOIf2uTtj30rvt12ktNqECT6bMW35DJK5DEw/edit?usp=sharing took me a while at 50 because I goofed the Chronos fight twice

I am planning to play this build with some adjustments on Surface - it should be even stronger now that Prominence Flare works with Winner's Circle, Fluid Gain can substitute for Born Gain with Unseen, and Exceptional Talent is now more likely and easier to build towards

I also think Typhon is a much easier fight for this build than Chronos because he will stand there and take all of Momus' pulses

[brazen ore]

i need access bestie 😭

[civic ocean]

oh one sec

how do you post images again lmao

[winged acorn]

Yo, i just got the aspect of morrigan and i dont know what is the best build for it?

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tt8KD_wCOIf2uTtj30rvt12ktNqECT6bMW35DJK5DEw/edit?usp=sharing here you go

[brazen ore]

yooo thanks

[civic ocean]

Arcana was...

Sorc, Moon, Furies, Pers, Messenger, Unseen, Night, Runner, Centaur, Artificer, Excellence, Champions, Strength, Divinity.

I think I would order it a lot differently now, though, especially for surface - no room rerolls in Ephyra is pretty booty