h2-builds-and-combat

[sage flame]

axe is generally consistent at high fear, than specifically, moros torches are always strong if you get the magick needed, momus staff is also a strong pick, maybe pan too, pan with zeus special and trick knives is very strong

[heady flame]

holy dude how do i beat typhon 😭

i had near invuln with like 2x wolf howl + aspect of charon instantly awakening hex

and i stilll couldnt beat that guy

[stray pivot]

Focus on damage and survivality

Wait
THats just the whole gameehahhvgjdshfdusrfuydsdtdb

[errant latch]

mostly stick under his chin and then dash out when he does chin slam

can also try to get plenty of HP and then frosty veneer to facetank him

[heady flame]

hm yea idk how far i was through the fight but the room before where i had to fight one of his tendrils or something burnt like 3 of my dds

[stray pivot]

Probably the Eggs

[errant latch]

typhon's got 5 stages: start, eggs 1, zeus, eggs 2, death

[stray pivot]

Destroy them.

[errant latch]

(the tendril you speak of is his tail, but yeah)

tail is mostly dashing through the shockwaves and when it does the big chargeup attack stand behind it

[heady flame]

hm yea i got to eggs 2

so ig i was 3/4 thru the fight?

[spare kite]

Fwiw eggs 2 is still 25k hp remaining

[heady flame]

💀

[spare kite]

He has 65k total

[heady flame]

they gotta nerf the guys on olympus or something man

i feel like styx was like 10x easier than this

[spare kite]

That's not Olympus fault

[gloomy shuttle]

I’ll (re)try these in particular. Gale for all except momos I guess. Also, would you recommand to force a god or not, usually ?

[sage flame]

id maybe recommend hecuba for moros specifically (preparing for blood lines and hubris priming) but yeah gale is solid

[sage flame]

and usually yes god keepsake erebus usually, tho I think for one of my 50s early on i started something else that wasn't athena either

but athena erebus can work too

oh yeah lmao

[stray pivot]

nonononononononnonon dont you dare say that

[sage flame]

it was fig leaf start for when I did a 50 with toula and arty blades

[stray pivot]

Poison ended 98% of my runs

[heady flame]

the pools are right there man

[gloomy shuttle]

Yeah I meant Moros (well the one on the torches). Also I may try fig, seems good. What do you think about taking Athena’s boon that gives 1 death defiance per room and running it down like a madman ?

[stray pivot]

Aspect of lvl 50 divine dash im dying ahashfdhgfhjfh

[heady flame]

i have proof

[sage flame]

100% can work, it's a very strong boon

[heady flame]

heroic level 50 divine dash actually

[sage flame]

just don't pick the stubborn defiance on a magick use weapon ig

[stray pivot]

Zagreus became the STANDING HERE I REALIZE

[stray pivot]

I run strength for a good while now i dont find use in it anymore

Righteous pike my beloved

[sage flame]

for high fear stubborn defiance is super worth to pick even with strength

just don't facetank too hard

[gloomy shuttle]

Of course. I may try Thanatos axe

I run strengh, rolls, and the one that makes you roll minor rewards into major ones, can’t remember the name (and basic stuff like origination, hp growth...)

I’ll try when I have time, then probably brag about my win or ask for more advice if I don’t. Thanks for your answers

[sage flame]

yeah that sounds pretty standard

good luck killing time o7

[stray pivot]

Killing T i m e
Heh

[thin ridge]

Hecuba isn’t important for moros gale is still better

[shy quail]

Mel skull and apollo attack does so much damage, i didn't even hit wide grin like I wanted too but I hit apollo legendary and 315k on omega attacks

[sage flame]

idk it's specifically for born gain blood line pike preparation, it's really easy to prime out magick if u get that desired build, I find it more consistent

[shy quail]

also where to find gale and hecuba? I've kinda just been using raki

[elfin forge]

hecuba is in echos room, gale is in shop before prometheus

[shy quail]

oh okay

[elfin forge]

the unlock requirements for them are kinda unclear though

keep talking to hecate and she might let you recruit them

[sudden inlet]

So who would be the recommended pet for staff?

[elfin forge]

I don't think weapons really have specific pets?

[thin ridge]

I prefer to just buy a few magick pots in uw, or in ephyra get Medea traces of spirit/double pot

[thin ridge]

What build region etc

[elfin forge]

Raki = Crits
Frinos = Tanky
Hecuba = Initial Magic
Gale = Tanky but its in dodge instead, good for high difficulty mostly

[thin ridge]

Toula-bad death defiance

[elfin forge]

yup

[atomic ibex]

i find the hit blocking much more useful than the dodge when using gale

[elfin forge]

that's what I meant I guess

[stray pivot]

Toula Sucks

And i like cats

[thin ridge]

Frinos hp is pretty unimpactful but the minigame skip is pretty nice

[sage flame]

toula is awesome and the best one

[elfin forge]

frinos hp I find is pretty good, its kind of all the health you need for the run

[sage flame]

esp with strength

[elfin forge]

you'll be forced to pick some health up anyways

[thin ridge]

Wait a minute

[thin ridge]

There is enough mandatory health especially with centaur arcana

[sage flame]

frinos

[elfin forge]

toula is awesome with strength tbh

[sage flame]

real

80 ehp last life goes hard

think about it, just run both dds and strength

[sage flame]

when pain 2 enters the room:

actually just dodge tbh nvm

[atomic ibex]

i only use frinos on judgement runs

[sudden inlet]

Just general I guess because I'm not good at builds lol

[hazy crater]

That implies a level of skill not to take too much damage which I don't have

So frinos for me :)

[sour relic]

Asking this here as I can't find any confirmed source, is it not possible to have Ares Meat Grinder and Geyser Spout together? Does taking one disable the other?

[spare kite]

Correct, prom flare also conflicts with the others

[glossy forge]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit?gid=1617442120#gid=1617442120
That's the collection of high fear clears, and
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13fga8OmJIp2a3pSwO7A50bWF0WMQDsjIIUnFQHtOWFE/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.rlkop9c38kdh
that's the 50 fear guide you were looking for.

[heady flame]

what does scars 3 mean

[magic moss]

Vow of Scars Level 3

[heady flame]

o so pact

[magic moss]

Hades 2 equivalent of Lasting Consequences 4 yeah

[gloomy shuttle]

Thank you !

[harsh glacier]

any good rocket launcher builds for the black coat?

[magic moss]

nice

[glossy forge]

🫡

[glossy forge]

High rarity Aphrodite special, Island Getaway (Aphrodite + Poseidon duo), Shimmering Rockets hammer.

[harsh glacier]

thank youuuu

[magic moss]

how should i change my sheet for the next major update, taking feedback and suggestions :)

[magic moss]

For the record, the sheet was always meant to track max fear clears without void, which was 50 fear for most of the game’s EA. Once EM drops, the sheet will be tracking the new max.

I do plan on keeping 50F clears but on a user based submission process

[merry bronze]

did anyone ever find a good consistent build for coat special (ig aspect of selene considering the others dont really match the playstyle) that actually works and doesnt depend on you getting the special hammers bc every time i try i legit cannot find a consistent one, specially while scaling up fear

like its always too slow for it to do just normal damage. plus the tracking isnt the best. maybe im missing something?

[wintry fiber]

dont play coat much but i can recommend poseidon for those multi hits

so typical poseidon king tide slop build

[rustic sedge]

Seconded, Poseidon is extremely good, doubly so if you can get the boon that inflicts Slip

[wintry fiber]

slip is pretty bad though

[rustic sedge]

I've also had good luck with Ares secondary, spreads Wounds to make my fast-hitting punches hit hard

[wintry fiber]

in terms of effect

5 percent additive at base leaves a lot more to be desired

but you are getting for origination anyways

[merry bronze]

yhh

is the damage from a full omega spec enough to proc blitz

bc i do not remember lol

[rustic sedge]

30 damage per rockets * 6 rockets at max charge, 180 total

I forget how much it takes to proc Blitz, but O special is a bit hit or miss as a trigger unless you have a really good damage boon on there

[wintry fiber]

blitz should be 120 i think

[rustic sedge]

ah, in that case ye you can do it with two rockets to spare :]

[merry bronze]

nice :) ty

this is just making me sad that poseidon cast is the way it is rn bc id love to have a whirlpool that can constantly apply slip if u have slop

sea storm builds gone but never forgotten

[thin ridge]

120, omega move damage can trigger arc flash too

[stray pivot]

I think they should make Blits like before i would be a tiny lil bit less OVERPOWERED

Like if you dont do 120 in less than 3 sec dont give the damage forvfree

[magic moss]

blitz is still broken as hell

[stray pivot]

Yeah

Up the damage to trigger it to 200-250

Up the damage it deals and nerf all of its interactions

idk

Also Kings Ramson its the silliest funniest thing to build a run

[thin ridge]

Changes absolutely nothing

[thin ridge]

Makes it less fun

[wintry fiber]

i'd think blitz could be made into a stackable effect where you can build more lightning damage with attacks before the 3 second burst kinda like a burst dot surely they havent thought of this before right

[shy quail]

echo is so funny, i just got ares legendary from the past night boon thingy and didn't have any ares boons so I got a visceral impact after the legend with no boons from him before echo

[shy quail]

i mean that would kinda just be chill or hangover from hades 1 right?

[opaque gust]

Fwoof. I’m having a weird time with Hades 2. I like it a lot, but I find the Surface much, much harder than Hades 1, which I could beat at mid 40s heat — and not just cheesing Divine Dash, but plenty of builds. Hades 2 on the Surface, even after 100 nights, I still can’t get consistent wins, even with 0 fear. With ranged attacks I’m better, but with up close stuff, like Medea aspect, it’s weirdly difficult even with builds that seem OP — like, I just did a Medea build where I got Queen’s ransom and my Blitz was hitting for 600 a pop, chain lightning, all the good stuff for Ares attack (34% chance to do double damage— crazy stuff)… and I lost all 3 death defiances by Typhom because I just couldn’t avoid damage while attacking the latter enemies on the summit. From Prometheus on, it’s likely he and the others will take my Dds before I get to Typhon. Chronos is usually doable, but the surface mini bosses are my kryptonite when using anything but the ranged options.

[elfin forge]

1. Consider using Strength. Deal +25% damage, and take half damage(making healing and Centaur hearts stronger)
2. With Medea, you want to do one attack, then one special, not stacking it. Ideally all basic enemies die in two shots roughly.
3. A lot of Surface minibosses do indeed suck, but the Olympus ones and Summit ones you should be able to do relatively consistently without taking much damage

[shy quail]

Definetly use strength instead of DDs, I think of it as basically doubling all of your health and health gained while also giving you a pretty large damage buff (and the doubling health helps a lot against Eris)

And studying Prometheus (like his memory game stuff and which attacks he does at which phase)

[wicked palm]

how tf is prometheus so much stronger then chronos, wtf

[harsh glacier]

is poseidon special or aphrodite special better on aspect of pan?

[elfin forge]

poseidon

actually wait that might not really be true

[stray pivot]

Island getaway

[harsh glacier]

I thought island getaway would be better but a youtuber said poseidon knives is the better one so idk

[elfin forge]

at legendary, poseidon Pan is 65x10
Legendary aphro Pan is 75x10

[harsh glacier]

so aphro is better

[elfin forge]

yeah

poor poseidon

wait but poseidon splashes get multiplied by percent buffs

[harsh glacier]

girlypopping off

[elfin forge]

while aphro is additive

[junior trail]

island

[elfin forge]

Do poseidon Splashes benefit from universal buffs

[junior trail]

yes

also stuff like slip, king tide, and arterial

[elfin forge]

ok so Legendary Poseidon Pan+Origination = 97.5x10
Legendary Aphro Pan + Origination = 62.5x10

poseidon is basically power, while Aphro is basically % boost

power is generally harder to come by and more valuable

[harsh glacier]

sooo which one would you consider the better option

[elfin forge]

poseidon

[harsh glacier]

I see

[stray pivot]

Ok but consider

Poseidon legendary.

[elfin forge]

yeah

hm, why is splash worse on other weapons then?

if is basically power, and you can get % buffs from other places like arcana

[harsh glacier]

splash not procking as often on other weapons probably

[junior trail]

the next thing that is as fast as blades o.special is torches, but splash has 0.3 sec cooldown with both attacks and specials

[harsh glacier]

offer your legendary you silly silly fish man >:(

[junior trail]

unlike blades which has no cooldown

[elfin forge]

iirc, %buffs are additive, so Strength + Origination + Furies = 105% just off the getgo

am I high or is Moonstone Axe better with Poseidon Attack instead of Apollo attack

[harsh glacier]

poseidon pls I'm freaking begging you pls drop your stupid king tide

[elfin forge]

Moonstone Axe Dash attack: 40 power
105% buffs assuming those arcana cards
Purple Apollo = +60%
Apollo Dash Attack = 40 * 2.65 = 106 Damage
Purple Poseidon = +25 damage
Poseidon Dash Attack = 65 * 2.05 = 133.25 Damage

or am I grossly misunderstanding how the math of the game works

[harsh glacier]

HE FISH MAN GAVE ME THE LEGENDARY YIPEE

do you guys remember momus poseidon special spam

[stray pivot]

not really

[harsh glacier]

you would basically just sit back and spam the special on staff of momus with poseidon and it would delete bosses instantly really

[elfin forge]

ok I did the math, Poseidon is better for any attack with less then 45 power, Aphro is better for any attack with more

[dapper elbow]

How do I deal with the spiner ability from the vow of fangs using meda

[elfin forge]

what spinder ability

[junior trail]

the 3 golden orbs one i think?

[dapper elbow]

Yes

[elfin forge]

oh I see

well you have oattack on Medea I guess

[dapper elbow]

What if most of the damage is focused on zuse special

[elfin forge]

ospecial has iframes

if you have no magick, then yeah all of your offense is point blank melee

[dapper elbow]

Ok so that means don’t go Athena as starting keep sake.

I’m testing to see if zuse first or athen first

[magic moss]

still oattack

[elfin forge]

what if you primed every single drop of magick like normal lol

[magic moss]

or you can take a deflect like ddash and do a dash -> attack -> special

[elfin forge]

oh true

wait does deflect permanently get rid of them or do the orbs come back

[magic moss]

deflect just makes them hurt enemies but remain in orbit

[elfin forge]

and they stop hurting you?

[opaque gust]

I’ll keep trying Strength, but so far, having the boosts hasn’t helped me enough when I needed it compared to DD — mainly because I get hit so much in those last sections (Prometheus and on). Eris is pretty easy now. I guess I’m just a slow learner on 2 compared to 1.

[magic moss]

yes

exact same interaction as the chronos attack

[elfin forge]

so they're basically marked as "Friendly"

[dapper elbow]

Found something else that I need to work on. Taking a quote from hades one Hermes “ there is a difference from being quick and being hasty. And you are the later”. What can I do to be more quick than hasty

[elfin forge]

what's the issue

more concretely

[magic moss]

target selection, positioning, animation cancels, mastery of your aspect, etc

[dapper elbow]

Ok

[limber trench]

Could anyone please suggest a skull build? Only one I haven’t conquered the top of the mountain with 🥲

[wintry fiber]

when in doubt blitz spam

[pulsar canyon]

how do i know which projectiles Hestia's sprint doesn't apply to? I always pick it on the surface because of Eris, but then i sprint into some projectiles and just take dmg? mainly in the final area

[thin ridge]

Medea, Zeus special ares attack get heinous affront

[bright gull]

Is Blitz considered a “Bolt”?

Would it get benefit from Double Strike?

[uneven palm]

Yes, Double Strike works on Blitz

[willow dagger]

New player question: it's not incredibly clear in game and any guides on line I find feel like they just don't explain this

I have unlocked the aspects for weapons, can I have all 3 of them equipped at once once I craft them? Or is it only one at a time?

[errant latch]

no, you pick one to run with

simply walk up to the weapon in the silver pool, interact with it and select the aspect you want to do a run with

[willow dagger]

OH okay cool 🩵 and they all go to lvl 5 I assume?

[errant latch]

yes, but there's a certain boon that can get them to lvl 6 for that run only 😉

[mighty solar]

Does knuckle bones work on typhon?

[finite harbor]

yea

[mighty solar]

K, gonna try that

[mighty solar]

I WON

AAAAAAA

[finite harbor]

AYE! NICE!

[neon crown]

what gods should i be going for on moros torches?

[stable barn]

Zeus special, hera attack(or any other % based attack)

then sec boons like fine line, righteous pike

[wide pollen]

Fine line is so good on torches, got to have the magick for it though

[stable barn]

oh yea born gain is a must

[wide pollen]

Comes on the same god is great

[stable barn]

for starting keepsake u can either take hera for born gain + raki, or hermes keepsake + hecuba for channel speed

and hunt for born gain in 2 or 3rd region

[neon crown]

cool

thx

[thin ridge]

Best starting keepsake is the god you want on attack, and take gale or raki

[atomic ibex]

You can go for Aphro attack and Zeus special, to get romantic spark

[heady flame]

just wondering how does strength work is any res counted as a dd like tooth and stuff

[thin ridge]

Yes

[stray pivot]

If you can defy dead Strenght will know of you cowardice

[minor stump]

in case anyone was still wondering, Bridal Glow doesn't help Steady Growth; instead of subtracting encounters it adds them

[spare kite]

If it puts a dd icon it disables strength

[stray pivot]

Dang it

[minor stump]

hmmm, guess you can't post screenshots. it's 9 encounters at LV2, 15 at LV3, 21 at LV4

[spare kite]

Yeah it works like that for stuff like death warrant or defensive posture too

It straight up adds the number of the common rarity

So each pom is +6

[minor stump]

at first I thought it was underflow but apparently not

[stray pivot]

Me getting a rare boon by the end of the final region:

https://tenor.com/view/mankill123-gif-25572738

[harsh glacier]

why did nobody tell me that if you just max your cast it becomes a nuke

[stray pivot]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[glossy forge]

?? what does this mean

[harsh glacier]

like if you take all the cast boons

I had a run where my cast 3-shot chronos

[stray pivot]

Pom Pom POm?

THen it probably was heph Cast Boon (my beloved)

[elfin forge]

or maybe it was ocast stuff idk

[harsh glacier]

it was mostly apollo stuff + poseidon and demeter

[stray pivot]

OOOOO
The infamous poseidon demeter cast shenaningans

[elfin forge]

yeah poseidon cast does really high single hit damage

[harsh glacier]

aphrodite don't you dare give me common flutter flourish >:(

[stray pivot]

Mean

Wheres my Heroic flourish so i dont even need to rarify it
So mean

[harsh glacier]

she's holding out on me smh

[stray pivot]

just take smth else idk
Basically anything but a common

IM commonphobic

I hate common and rare TSsssss

[harsh glacier]

hera has made me commonphobic

[stray pivot]

YOU could take it and arophial it

[stray pivot]

Bridal Glow would have made people crazy on hades 1

Bridal Glow my beloved

[harsh glacier]

I finally got the epic one and rarefied it

island getaway by area one let's flipping go??

[stray pivot]

Hell yeah
+250 damage lesss gooo

[stray pivot]

Hell yeah
Which weapon?

[harsh glacier]

staff

[stray pivot]

Ohhhh COol

[harsh glacier]

melinoe aspect

[stray pivot]

Could be cooler on Axe Hmmmmm idk

[harsh glacier]

I love my special spam,,,

[stray pivot]

Ill try it when the new update come lmfao

[harsh glacier]

might be dead by then 😔

might play some hades-1 today I miss thanatos (and dionysus + aphro spam)

which familiar do you guys bring?

[grand flicker]

I'm not the ideal person to answer cause I don't have the rest yet, but I love Raki

[plush vapor]

frinos becasue forg

[elfin forge]

frinos because getting some starting hp is nice

[plush vapor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1262030734558756986/1374881907581386823/ol6qbxqbgqo51.png?ex=682faa0e&is=682e588e&hm=d23d07672dfbe282d7f31c1abc2e2cac25d657e87d9977022901c634263bdb9a&

[elfin forge]

terrific

[harsh glacier]

frinoth

[elfin forge]

Raki players do you focus the guys he marks, or do you just play your game and treat it like an occasional bonus for waves

[grand flicker]

I believe the marks don't act like they did in Hades 1 where it transfers to some other enemy once you kill the marked enemy, right? So I just kinda treat it like an occasional bonus

Might be wrong though, just correct me if this is the 98%

[elfin forge]

yeah because during basic waves sometimes he just marks a random zombie across the arena

[grand flicker]

Yeah... It's kinda annoying when that happens. I kinda wish you could have some sort of control over it, maybe make it so that it marks the nearest enemy or something.

[elfin forge]

maybe we could get an active ability for all familiars lol

Frinos: Delete all projectiles on the screen, or something

[harsh glacier]

eris keeps destroying me 😭

[elfin forge]

yeah she does that

[harsh glacier]

the next time I come across her I'm clipping her wings idc

[elfin forge]

stay point blank, and don't unga all the time, pay close attention to what move she's readying

like you can get a feel for when she does the charge, or when she'll machinegun

the shotgun is best for damage, but it's high risk because if you get hit you get deleted

Grenades is probably the best move overall. Easy to dodge, easy window for damage

last phase you can do the "cheese" where you stand in the bottom right, guaranteeing where she will spawn so you can just burst her down

[harsh glacier]

I hope they change tula where she doesn't give death defiance anymore, her deactivating strength is kinda annoying :/

[elfin forge]

what else would she do though

also Death Defiance players kinda need a familiar, I feel

[harsh glacier]

dodge chance I suppose

[elfin forge]

they get 2 keepsakes, 1 arcana card, 1 familiar, and some boons, I think that's fair

[harsh glacier]

fair enough

[elfin forge]

Strength gets 1 keepsake, 1 arcana card, and you can you open yourself up to choose all the other options

[grand flicker]

I don't use strength, what's the bonus it gives to your atk% again?

[elfin forge]

(the 1 keepsake is Athena)

[elfin forge]

25%

[stable herald]

Speaking of Mark, does it activate Origination?

[wicked palm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/527907033635225600/1374897617615458335/nOATS22.png?ex=682fb8b0&is=682e6730&hm=17f018e4a2b879ec7392700d116358a45d2046f58ec82b770275b060e2126ff3&

not even close

[glossy forge]

It does not!

[stable herald]

Thanks! Not that it would have been that useful if it did, but good to know nonetheless

[teal cairn]

Oh boy, 32 fear surface has been getting on my nerves

It's rough

[stray pivot]

No thanks
Waiting for Extreme Measures to go beyond 16 fear

[teal cairn]

That was my plan, 6 EM fear sounds way too good

But I'd like I kinda cheated if I'm not able to beat it before EM

I want that last statue!

[thin ridge]

💀

[teal cairn]

I'm unable to send my fear loadout

[elfin forge]

funnily for me, I told myself that 8 fear would be my max

And then I told myself that 16 fear would be my max

then I first tried 32 fear underworld because "screw it, why not"

[teal cairn]

Have you done it?

[elfin forge]

yeah

first try for UW, like 7 tries for surface

Medea is just THAT strong

[teal cairn]

Not bad, not bad a t all

[elfin forge]

post the pic in another server, then link it

[teal cairn]

Yeah, there's a clear winner amongst het boons

[elfin forge]

no I mean the aspect of medea lol

[teal cairn]

Pain 4
Grit 3
Wards 3
Frenzy 2
Hordes 1
Menace 2
Return 2
Fangs 2
Scars 1
Time 2
Hubris 1

[teal cairn]

Oh, I see XD

[elfin forge]

oh I can see why it's hard, you made it about as hard as possible for yourself

[teal cairn]

I've tried Eos for a while, didn't get far, tried Pan, also didn't work and I've stuck around with Momo

[atomic ibex]

No shadows?

[elfin forge]

Pain 4, Grits 3, Wards 3, Hordes 1 is an insane set

I recommend turning on some more of the weirdo vows, the stat buff ones tend to be worse

[teal cairn]

Nope, haven't been able to beat the captain nor do I think I'll beat one of CoZ's minibosses

[atomic ibex]

CoZ?

[elfin forge]

Try Debt

[teal cairn]

I don't want to rely on enemy luck

[teal cairn]

Castle of Zeus

[elfin forge]

Forfeit as well, it's a bit less painful in Surface

[elfin forge]

we call it Summit

[teal cairn]

Alright, I'll write it down

[atomic ibex]

Also, if you turn off wards or grit, you can go time 3

[teal cairn]

Forfeit is 3???? Damn. Why haven't I tried it before

[elfin forge]

I wish I remembered my 32 fear setup

Shadow really isn't that bad, yargonaut is gonna suck anyways

Remember, the Yarg you were fighting had 130% HP, Wards 2, 200% damage

[teal cairn]

Yargonaut sucks regardless of fear

[elfin forge]

those stat bumps just make things so hard

[atomic ibex]

Also, Denial is basically free fear if you keep track of your boons

[teal cairn]

So, should I swap Grit 3 for Forfeit or should I turn down Hordes and 2 Grit?

[atomic ibex]

Id turn of hordes

[teal cairn]

Wards gotta stay, lowkey free

[atomic ibex]

Hordes are a nightmare or surface

[teal cairn]

Yeah, I was trying Hordes 3 before

There's simply too much going on to keep track of

[atomic ibex]

Also, keep track of how much time you are using during your runs. If it's under 5 minutes per Biome, take Time 3

[elfin forge]

yeah wards is ok for fast hitting weapons

[atomic ibex]

Y'all aren't ready for my Wards Vicious Strike Mel Axe build

[elfin forge]

I think grit has to go down as well, tankiness is so bad

[teal cairn]

Also, isn't vow of debt better on underworld runs? Hermes' shops have some pretty cheap good items

[elfin forge]

while true, it's probably still worth taking over enemy stat buffs

[atomic ibex]

Tbh I try to avoid debt on surface, since Hermes items make Thessaly considerably easier

[teal cairn]

I think I'll dimish 1 Hordes, 2 Grit and 1 Pain for Shadows 1 and Forfeit

Does it sound reasonable?

I'm skeptical on SHadows mostly due to Yarg and Spawn of Typhoon

[elfin forge]

Spawn shadows, imo, is really not that bad

[teal cairn]

Idk, every run I ran into him I got beat up

Lowkey prayinng ffor Twins every single time.

[elfin forge]

spawn by himself is annoying, but I find him very consistent

he dashs into a wall, I dash in after him and beat him up

he does his melee combo, I run away, and wait till the stomp before dashing in to beat him up

[teal cairn]

I wish there was something akin to a training room

[elfin forge]

yeah that'd be nice

[teal cairn]

Alright, you made up my mind

[elfin forge]

actually, there's a good chance Spawn will be easily refightable in a Chaos Trial

[teal cairn]

I'll ping ya if there's a noticeable improvement or if I'm able to clear it

[elfin forge]

gl, soldier

[teal cairn]

Thanks, boss!

Ain''t gonna play rn. Spent like 2 hours already, but tomorrow I'm going all the way to summit!

[glossy forge]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzMsMCwwLDYsMCwzLDAsNSwwLDAsMiwwLDYsMCwyLDJd

This is a pretty standard 29 Fear setup for the Surface. From there, it's pretty aspect-dependent what your final 3 Fear should be. Getting used to a 5 minute timer will make your 32 Fear runs infinitely easier, and it shouldn't be a problem making that timer if you set up a good build in Ephyra. Focus on stacking up health throughout the run, especially from the Hermes shrines.

Your intuition on Vow of Debt being a complete trap on the Surface was absolutely correct. You can abuse the Hermes shrines to make your build much much stronger if everything costs a normal amount.

[thin ridge]

I can see this working

[thin ridge]

Is it worth to buy from Hermes shrine at normal/inflated price or should I look for decreased cost

[gilded pine]

Can someone share a good build for the skull (any aspect)? I need to beat the 20 fear Typhon bounty and I don't play skull, so idk a good build.

[bright gull]

Guys are you sure the gods pool limit is 4 ? It feels like 3 and if you add a 4th god it replaces your first one

I started a run with an apollo keepsake and then I never saw him again after in the last 2 regions 💀

[spare kite]

Unlucky moment

Even if the pool was 3, more gods through any medium are just added to the pool, not replace

[gilded pine]

Ok, no need, I just brute forced with some random build with just an Apollo attack. Medea does insane damage, I had no idea.

[marsh cargo]

Aspect of medea with high rarity blitz crushes the surface. Just mash attack special until everything is dead.

[gilded pine]

Gotcha, will try that next time, ty

[solemn loom]

Added builder to show gameplay boons/item.
Used "VideoGameRecordings" vid as example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDhe1j-9HTE)

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/Builder/?boon=WyIyODAiLCIyOTciLCI0NSIsIjkxIiwiMTU5IiwiMTc3IiwiMzIzIiwiMTQxIiwiMzA1IiwiMzg0IiwiMTY0IiwiMzIyIiwiNTMiLCIxODgiLCIxNDMiLCI5NSJd

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1272385014150991875/1375144292070461460/Screenshot_2025-05-22_at_12.12.19_PM.png?ex=68309e6c&is=682f4cec&hm=3958fda84992f79558bb89af72cbb24c9a3e469334e3a713a51175cc3f992bc3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1317&height=720

[magic moss]

what
Is this like a legit clear

[solemn loom]

huh? what is wrong with their gameplay?

[woeful moth]

Call it a skill issue, but how is an elite auto forcer( automaton spin) a fair enemy. Especially when speed up. I can't properly counter them with axe :(

[glossy forge]

A good rule of thumb is making sure you’ll have 150/270 gold for the next shop boon, or you’ll at least accumulate to that amount over the next few encounters. As long as you don’t miss out on shop boons, it’s almost always worth it to buy stuff from Hermes shrines regardless of the price.

[elfin forge]

cast, run as far away as possible, and pray

I'm not the most experienced person here though so listen to them, not me

[woeful moth]

I decided to try zeus cast build someone suggested here. Not an option 😭

[woeful moth]

+Than crit chance. I died:(

[fallen veldt]

freeze is the easiest way to handle them. But just attacking from a distance and waiting for the spin and then going around it is good as well. Also VODs on the 50F sheet can help show how people handle them. They can definitely be annoying, though

[thin ridge]

Only if it’s armored and your build is terrible

[woeful moth]

Where do I find the spreadsheet?

[fallen veldt]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit?gid=1617442120#gid=1617442120

[hazy crater]

anyone have recomendations for generally how to play with the torch? I have ~150 hours in the game but havent touched the torch at all so I have no clue what to go for

[elfin forge]

pretty sure hera is the goat for torches

[hazy crater]

should I put hera on attack or special?

[elfin forge]

which torches

for Mel, you rarely use the special

[hazy crater]

I thought mel was the one that had a better special

[elfin forge]

oh yeah it is

eh you can honestly kind of ignore it

OAttack is just very strong

[hazy crater]

alr

[elfin forge]

for Hera Boons, try to pick up Born Gain and Fine Line

[hazy crater]

makes sense

[elfin forge]

just hold down attack, and you can dash around to reposition without dropping your omega charge

[hazy crater]

would I just put whatever on the special and use special occasionally to apply a status effect?

[elfin forge]

yeah

[hazy crater]

alr

ima try that out, thanks

[uneven palm]

Or do O-special, then hold attack. That’s how I do Mel Torches but people think I’m a loon so ymmv

(Same loop for Moros btw)

[elfin forge]

I think ospecial makes more sense for moros just to get juicy explosions

[hazy crater]

damn you were right hera on torches is busted

I tried my first surface run, and killed typon in 1 minute 34 seconds with it

[teal cairn]

@elfin forge Howdy sir. I tried a few runs with different vows and it vastly improved my results

I'm a bit sick-ish today, so I'm not exactly at my best, but I still managed to get to Prometheus with plenty more time to spare and some pretty mediocre boons/hammers in general.

Once I'm at peak condition I'm sure I'll be able to clear surface

[elfin forge]

heck yeah

[bright gull]

I thought Talos was too easy and needed a buff until he ruined my run when I faced him at 32 fear with shadows and fangs on

[elfin forge]

yeah the shadows can be nasty unless you instantly destroy then

autowatchers and autoforcers are the scariest enemies ever

[bright gull]

I always just bonk the miniboss and ignore the shadows

[bright gull]

That sentry turret managed to track me and follow me in my slow time hex 💀

[elfin forge]

nah those shadows gotta die instantly

[errant latch]

are armor melting hammers massively buffed on high fears?

[glossy forge]

Yes. If there are no offered hammers that massively buff your build, always take the melting

[torpid rivet]

I had a really fun run with moros torches, aphrodite attack and zeus special. Hit Ospecial and run up close to spam attack. The explosion pretty much always counts as close range for aphrodite and you can proc blitz very quickly. Rest can be kinda whatever you want, some Hera is always good for king's ransom and demeter is easy double curse for arcana

[bright gull]

Does the daggers O-special count as one strike for all the daggers or every dagger is considered a strike?

[wintry fiber]

individual but the damage number is cumulative iirc

which is why you only see people willingly use poseidon on pan blades

and occasionally coat

[small elk]

Hello do you know if there is a way to see all gods' boons like in Hades 1 ? I can't find it in the codex

[errant latch]

there's an incantation for that

need to gift every god (except ares) a nectar and then a second nectar to any god to unlock it I think

[bright gull]

Yeah posiedon on pan makes sense but I was contemplating whether it would count as one strike or its a strike per dagger for the Artemis 9 strikes crit buff

[small elk]

Ho ok thanks for the tips

[errant latch]

oh I'm slightly off, "Gifted at least 1 Nectar to each:
Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Apollo, Aphrodite, Hephaestus, Hestia, Artemis, Hermes, Chaos"

[small elk]

Perfect ! I only miss Appolo

[grand pumice]

Is Aspect of eos fun?

Im thinking of doing an apollo legendary run with it since i heard its good so

[sudden inlet]

It’s solidly okay, enjoy it more than Moros aspect for sure

[night lagoon]

It's Bizarro Moros

You launch the OAttack then spam specials

[woeful moth]

Sadge that I can't post video here, but there is a bug with selene wolf howl that lets you get stuck inside typhon's head. Not sure how to descibe it but I somehow manage to get there. I managed to get to the third phase for literally free but then I used selene power again to dodge minions and the tail and got kicked back into arena and died

[teal cairn]

Almost made it

Got a bit too nervous on typhoon's first phase. Victory is certainly near!

Even managed to reach him with 6 minutes to spare

[grand flicker]

Congrats on beating typhoon! <3

Cyclone is next, good luck with him

[atomic ibex]

Can't wait for the dlc where Mel squares up against a tornado

[stray pivot]

Typhon but they took the design way too seriously
(hes just a tornado)

[sour relic]

Is taking Cut Above and Weed Killer possible in one run?

[woeful moth]

There you go. Sorry for recording from my phone as I haven't setup recording on my linux machine https://imgur.com/a/nwUREbD

[spare kite]

Yeah

https://youtu.be/FAppj4KN2FE you can stack a lot of mana costs effects

[sour relic]

Thanks!

[spare kite]

(I think the only effect I was missing here was cut above lol)

[bright gull]

Do you guys just ignore the attack button on Persiphone’s Skull on most builds?

[elfin forge]

beep beep vroooooooooooom

[glossy forge]

Rather, we tend to ignore the special button on most builds at 50+ fear

They're most likely going to revamp Persephone to make the special more appealing

[bright gull]

Why go Persephone if you're not going to use the special button ?

[glossy forge]

For completion's sake, of course

And technically wide grin and possessed array are still making use of the aspect bonus

+30% omega move damage

[bright gull]

Oh I always thought that said +30% O-special for some reason

But yeah special button is underwhelming on most builds

[glossy forge]

yea the idea is to omega cast -> omega special, but when the omega special is such trash and the omega attack is so good, persephone just needs a rework

[bright gull]

Even on my Momus builds I just spam o-attack and o-cast and skip the short range o-special

[glossy forge]

hmm I wouldn't say underwhelming, staffs and daggers and torches love a blitz special, axe uses it as an animation cancel, but in general it's mostly just coat and charon builds that have strong special-only builds

[bright gull]

Coat really ? I always thought it's special is the one thing that needs a rework or buff

feels so clunky

what special builds do u go for coat?

[glossy forge]

well there's certain builds that work very well, high rarity aphro special + island getaway + shimmering rockets is enough to clear 53 fear with any coat

that was my Selene 53 UW build

but it definitely does need a buff yes, too much rng needed to make it work tbh

[kindred stirrup]

absolutely hate the axe but need to start playing it again for fear and prophecy reasons. any axe lovers have suggestions (both for builds and play-style)

[glossy forge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJz_gsbRPkY

Watch this damageless 50 Fear run by Mynt, he's a wizard with the axe

The basics involve cancelling the big 3rd chop, positioning yourself to hit as many enemies as possible with the first 2 swipes, liberally using your dashes between your attack swipes, knowing when to omega attack.

The best builds are Psychic Whirlwind + Seething Marauder, where you spam omega attacks. Furious Whirlwind is good only if you have one of these already. The attack hammers aren't bad, but they aren't great either.

Charon plays completely differently, but Mynt's channel has some more high Fear Charon runs if you want to see those, including 55s

[sudden inlet]

When you learn to cancel the huge chop with the special it’s a game changer for the axe I feel like, the third attack just feels so clunky and unfun.

[brave dove]

okay but world splitter + the double hit hammers is a deeply precious build to me

the way of bonk

[kindred stirrup]

So just like attack-attack-special-attack-etc? That's such a good idea, thanks!

[kindred stirrup]

Ooooh cool, thanks!

[sudden inlet]

Basically yeah

[wide pollen]

Sometimes it is fine to use the big chop. If you're winding up out of range you can dash in right before you bring it down. Also since the shockwave emits from where the axe lands and not Melinoe you can use it to hit around the corner of obstacles.

[elfin forge]

does it go through walls

[wide pollen]

I don't know? I should try.

[elfin forge]

maybe you can use it to fight bots from behind cover in olympus

[wide pollen]

I know you can use it to hit around cover with the right positioning

[hazy crater]

do you guys think selene hexes count as "boons" if you are doing a boonless run?

[stray pivot]

Only if you dont get any upgrades

[wide pollen]

Also one more tip for axe. Turn off auto-aim if you have it on.

You often want to aim between multiple enemies to hit them all

[stray pivot]

You guys use auto aim?

pathetic.

[hazy crater]

thanks, what about chaos blessings?

[stray pivot]

I dont know
Technically in hades 1 it didnt

[hazy crater]

alright

I would probably say its fine if it was in hades 1

thanks

[stray pivot]

No problem :)

[rustic sedge]

what if I play on controller 👉👈

[glossy forge]

mynt plays on controller and he's the best axe player there is

[hazy crater]

You can disable aim assist or reduce the amount it snaps

[wide pollen]

I don't see the issue?

I also play on controller

[uneven palm]

I use auto aim and things just get hit. The swing is like 180 degrees it’s hard not to hit a crowd

[teal cairn]

Fianlly cleared 32 Fear surface

Got lucky with some boons and was able to make quick work of Typhoon

Aspect of Momo, let's go!

[elfin forge]

aint that the lemur from avatar

[teal cairn]

Portuguese

[thin ridge]

Isn’t controller just superior

[teal cairn]

Is it Momus? or something

[elfin forge]

yeah in english it's momus

[magic moss]

i strongly hold the opinion that mouse is strictly better than controller for staff

[teal cairn]

Rolled that chaos boonthan gives extra percent damage on Omega attacks, my run was set on home stretch

[thin ridge]

This makes sense

[teal cairn]

Well, now I'll head back to the underworld after like 25 runs

[elfin forge]

time to destroy it lol

[teal cairn]

Yep, it's nowhere near as difficult as the surface

[magic moss]

working on a staff guide rn and praying sgg doesnt change it drastically again

[elfin forge]

next tuesday they rework circe

[teal cairn]

Staff is at a pretty decent spot rn

[elfin forge]

and change the special and omega special

[magic moss]

im not gonna cover aspects, mainly the pure staff fundamentals

staff has a surprisingly high skill ceiling

[teal cairn]

I feel like the last weapon is the one that needs some fine tuning

[elfin forge]

yeah coat needs something

[magic moss]

buff staff again frfr

i want to be able to clear 53F boonless

[teal cairn]

It doesn't feel natural, kinda like H1 Bow

Besides Rama and Chiron, of course

I feel like there's no point in using specials as well as Omega Attack

Omega Special feels pretty good to use though

[elfin forge]

nah omega special needs some work

[teal cairn]

I'd say it needs better tracking

[elfin forge]

omega attack covers more area with no travel time for more damage

[teal cairn]

Takes a while for all missiles to hit

[teal cairn]

Damn, didn't know that

Either way, looking forward for next update, especially balance changes

Looking at hammers, as always

[elfin forge]

yup

[glossy forge]

I want to say no, and then I run into a wall/river again and again when I'm trying to dash through it, and then I die

stupid 8 directional movement

[errant latch]

is it possible to reach 100% dodge without bridal glowing hermes?

[mighty solar]

tried medea yesterday and that thing is overpowered

[gaunt geyser]

Okay so I'm starting my 40 fear surface all weapons, just weapons not aspects, How do I actually make the coat do damage?

[glossy forge]

Three choices. Heroic pommed wave strike with associated global damage buffs, heroic pommed zeus attack/special with associated global damage buffs, or heroic pommed aphro special with island getaway plus shimmering/ripper rockets

[spare kite]

Click the funny hammer (exhaust riser)

[glossy forge]

Out of the three, zeus is the most consistent by far, but it doesn't really play into the aspect if you go for zeus

but if you're just trying to clear, zeus is the way to go

[gaunt geyser]

that is how I cleared 40 Underworld

[rustic sedge]

exhaust riser my beloved <3

[gloomy shuttle]

what fear setups did you run to clear 40 under ?

[gaunt geyser]

i can message you the results I dont want to flood the page

[gloomy shuttle]

sure go on !

[smoky badge]

i'm getting my ass whooped on 32 fear surface. i need the best setup build anyone has.

[glossy forge]

Pan, poseidon keepsake for heroic wave flourish, ares attack and grievous blow in Ephyra, ares-poseidon duo if you can get it. Hera for born gain and extended family is amazing.

Drop a cast, omega special for 3000 damage against prometheus. Drop a cast, omega special, the most straightforward and safe combo there is.

[woeful moth]

How do I counter Cronos scythe throw attack? I usually either stand behind him( if get lucky moment) or try keeping distance but the thing still gets me.

[glossy forge]

It's always a clockwise circle, so if you're beneath him you dash to the right, if you're above him then dash to the left

if you're right next to him, dash through him, and if you're like a small distance in front of him, the scythe won't hit you at all

[woeful moth]

Hm. Could you elaborate on your first message? What do you mean by beneath and above him? Beneath = facing him, above = behind?

[brave dove]

distance is usually not safe against chronos unless you're off the screen

which is a viable approach to be clear but a lot of people hate playing the off screen game

[brave dove]

you too huh

I keep screwing up ephyra or getting godawful rng

this run I burnt all 10 rerolls getting the heroic I wanted and it's the best the rng has been in a couple of attempts-

[smoky badge]

yeah same & im just getting pounded in thessaly no lie

[brave dove]

actually pretty quick timing, if I had a faster poly kill I coulda been sub-3 but having no rerolls for summit will suck

[brave dove]

as an aside since I only found this out earlier today, summit skull boons having a 20% base chance of legendary or duo is insane lmao

[glossy forge]

I mean literally beneath and above him. Like mel is directly below him on your screen, that means she's beneath him.

[brave dove]

that's 20% each, to be clear-

[indigo viper]

Man, I had amazing run with Than's aspect - extra dmg when you use omega moves (that one from Hestia and Ares) plus twirliwhirli hammer (when you use omega atk you can freely move and attack).
I clicked too early attack and get out of circle and grandma one shotted me...
Still, twirliwhirli should be build in Than's axe - w/o them is too sloppy to use omega move imo.

[sudden inlet]

Almost never get Ares in Ephyra with Poseidon it’s p frustrating tbqh

[uneven palm]

If you’re approaching Chronos and he’s not doing anything, pause in front of him a slight distance away. He’s probably gonna chuck the scythe and it’ll go right around you. If you’re in his face, like herroyung said dash counter-clockwise around the screen to go through

[glossy forge]

Not even after rolling the doors a couple of times?

[sudden inlet]

Last time I tried it with the dice it went Heph > Hera > Selene > Hera

[woeful moth]

Damn, I was so close at beating 42 fear underworld. Magic regen is what let me down :(. Got aphro regen at the very last shop but was not enough

[glossy forge]

It’ll take a couple of tries ig, the only reason I’m harping on ares is that it really will trivialize boss fights, but you can go for attempts without ares if you want

[woeful moth]

Need tips with rhino monstrocity. Especially with vow of shadows on. They attack me one after another. Not fair. Even with arctic ring i can't find the moment.

[uneven palm]

A melting hammer or a few seconds of Mint Condition invulnerability from Heph should help you clear the shadow quickly. Then you just have to deal with the main, which isn’t so bad (keep dashing behind it)

[woeful moth]

The problem is the shadow. I am trying to beat 32 surface and momus feels the most comfortable.

There is a melting armor only for twin daggers, right?

[spare kite]

All weapons have armor melting hammers

[sudden inlet]

My thing is that I tend to get into my own head when trying to do builds for runs, and focus way too much on what's the strongest-- partly due to watching Haelian.

[uneven palm]

You don’t need the absolute strongest stuff at that level. Plus most runs you just never get everything you want. You’ll get there

[elfin forge]

I mean I always equip zeus for zone 1 nowadays lol

[hazy crater]

pro tip: pray to the supergiant overlord that the games rng gives you the twins and not the rhino thing

for a exhaust riser coat build would mel aspect or selene aspect work better?

[bleak night]

they're all pretty much the same with Exhaust Riser

[hazy crater]

kk

[novel vector]

does zeus double strike affect blitz

[junior trail]

yes

not static shock tho

[novel vector]

don't really care about static shock, double strike blitz is crazy

[bleak night]

Static Shock is god tier tho

[woeful moth]

Yes. Finally got 32 surface

[thorny estuary]

If i have demeter's arctic gale can i also be offered ares' meat grinder? or are they exclusive?

[elfin forge]

I don't think they overlap

[glossy forge]

they are not exclusive

arctic gale doesn't count as a cast modifier, cast modifiers require casts as prerequisites and it's only cast modifiers that may sometimes be exlcusive

[blissful marsh]

https://youtu.be/d1Z27CkjP0I?si=Nu0rsfk8r2DoXmHy

seems odd

[woeful moth]

What is the playstyle for medea? I tried it with zeus special and aphro attack but didn't like it. Mainly because I can't reset enemies' attack with medea

[sudden inlet]

Roll between attack and special so you never use more than one round, either Ares+Zeus or Aphro+Zeus… Mel’s got kind of a narrow hit box when charging so it can be annoying to aim

[bright gull]

You mash attack>special , think of it like Hestia rail but you’re doing your special instead of reloading

Ofc you can play it however you want but that’s the current minmax way of playing Medea

[woeful moth]

hm, So it looks like it is recommended to charge 1 skull per special?

[spare kite]

Yeah, loading more than 1 is usually just for when enemies are spawning

[gloomy shuttle]

Hey guys, what's the fastest way to upgrade keepsakes ? I was thinking about 1st floor surface then dying to Polyphemus, again and again, but I'd like to make sure before actually doing it

[hollow solar]

I think the ||mirror trials|| are pretty good, unless I'm remembering wrong I believe they count towards leveling up keepsakes

Back when I was leveling keepsakes up, before the trials were re-playable, I remember thinking "dang that'd make this a lot easier"

[gloomy shuttle]

Oh yeah good point. I'll check if the ones I need to lvl are available here. Or maybe all of them are ?

[hollow solar]

Not sure if they all are yet, but there's definitely a good handful you could knock out

[gloomy shuttle]

definetly lack a lot of them

Was able to check faster than I planned as I miserably lost my run

[gloomy shuttle]

but hey some are here as well ! So I'll start with them

[glossy forge]

some of them, you can just take a keepsake of your choice into

[glossy forge]

also in terms of meta progress as a whole, completing full runs while taking as few skips a possible is how I maxed everything by night 69

[gloomy shuttle]

Of course, but I'd rather tryhard for my best runs than running lower fear or decreasing my chances to win

So I need to exp for the one time in my life when I might need to equip the keepsake that gives me additional manaa

I got a question realquick

just got scammed : had hestia keepsake and she only appeared for onion, got no boon from her. So if I keep it on, will I encounter her 100% next level ? Or not

[bleak night]

As long as the 1 is still on that thing it should still work

I kept a Heph keepsake across 2 regions in a run and it seemed to work

[gloomy shuttle]

alright thanks

[wide pollen]

Does that mean if you don't use the rarify they keep showing up?

[hollow solar]

You aren't guaranteed to get a boon from them asap, that effect does expire. The rarify effect is what carries/is counted with the "1"

So if you equipped the keepsake in an early region and never ended up using the rarify from it, you could keep it on and use that in the next region (as long as you run into a boon from the god)

At least I believe it works that way, someone can step in & correct me if I'm wrong on that (I can't test it myself atm just going off memory & my past playthroughs )

[wide pollen]

That's how I believed it worked as well.

[spare kite]

Afaik the 1 is just for the rarify, the guaranteed boon is a different effect

[wide pollen]

But someone asked if keeping it on will make her show up again. And Mynt replied that as long as the one is still on, it would.

[spare kite]

Oh wait if the context is onion it should work

If the god gets eaten by onion you still keep the next boon effect

[wide pollen]

The one is the rarity thing and Mynt knows what they are talking about.

[simple turret]

just got offered zeus + demeter duo, double strike, and power surge when I have mirrored thresher.

but I have vow of denial

[elfin forge]

you must choose what will live, and what will die

[atomic ibex]

Don't forget, you can use your rolls to try to prevent certain boons from being locked out

[simple turret]

this is correct, but I decided taking the duo was worth locking out the other 2 since Id have enough damage for basically the rest of the run

and my rerolls were better kept for looking for cold storage and poseidon/demeter infusions for defense

[surreal elk]

Ok, Blitz is pretty op if you know what build to use it with

[elfin forge]

it's pretty op with basically every build

[magic moss]

Ok, Blitz is pretty op if you know what build to use it with

[elfin forge]

I wonder what zeus pan is like

[neon crown]

Can blitz activate on the same hit as it was given

Without any other boons to help

[elfin forge]

don't think so?

I think multi attacks might be able to trigger it though, idk

[neon crown]

since axe has high enough base damage to trigger blitz in one hit

I think

[junior trail]

no, the first hit will only apply the curse

[elfin forge]

pretty sure it needs to be a different tick of damage

[neon crown]

rip

[elfin forge]

if you use something like axe's special though, the second and third hit can trigger it

[neon crown]

Well spin to win still works ig

[torpid rivet]

how do you even deal with 4+ of the minigun automaton? Every run that happens I end up getting barely tagged and then chain stunned to death

[neon crown]

Those are a pain to deal with

I’d say I kinda just stay close, but I also haven’t played recently

[torpid rivet]

2, even 3 is fine, but 4+ is so much coverage that there's no room to dodge, not to mention anything hard hitting (ie omega move) takes a little bit of time to set up so you just get blown to pieces

[elfin forge]

they're called auto watchers, and they're the bane of everyone's existence

[neon crown]

Yeahhh I got nothing on four at once

[elfin forge]

if you get close, they turtle up and drive you away, if you're far, they shoot you to death with guns

[neon crown]

I hate how they can’t even die when they start shooting

[elfin forge]

yeah the automatons are real menaces

Auto-forcers with their beyblades can be real scary too, if they skip past your cast

[torpid rivet]

was doing moros torches so I didn't really have anything fast, I needed a second for omega special and then spamming attack

[elfin forge]

I guess just play cover, like using corners

if your room is open, it's pretty over

[torpid rivet]

yeah it was open

[elfin forge]

use freeze if you got it

[torpid rivet]

my usual go-to for moros is aphro attack and zeus special, crazy damage when you aren't LARPing a 40k game as the victim

need to fit freeze in more often though

[glossy forge]

if it's an open room with zero cover and you don't have any way to stun all of them at once nor any invincibility: tough luck, you have encountered the surface rng barrier that kills 50 Fear runs

[torpid rivet]

my new annoyance is typhon spamming his laser, the timing on that thing is funky for some reason

[stoic tiger]

I got crazy builds for yall one sec

I got crazy builds for yall i did 400k dmg
"Aspect of Thanatos V" on The Moonstone Axe I focused Aphrodite Attack (Heroic), Final Chop (Hammer), & Attack twice use 20 magick. Then hermes attack speed 20 & another lucky hammer gave me attack speed.
Then I chased as many Ares boons as i could for damage multipliers.
I would get the 40% chance increase, except dodge or daze. Then ares would give me the affects to do 200% more damage. While using the eagle for criticals. Fighting thanatos with 16 testaments
‹<<<<When i feel like typing another build i got you.

I always use the random hammer boon keepsake for final boss on upper region

For an extra hammer hoping it helps.

[gloomy shuttle]

Seems cool, how do you sustain the manaa cost of attacks ?

[glossy forge]

Funny enough this is exactly how I cleared 50 fear for the first time on Than

Big bonk

[sudden inlet]

I don’t think I’ll ever be able to figure out twin blades or black coat like they’re just not as fun or safe to use I feel like than the other weapons; Axe, Skull, and Staff are infinitely easier to build around since you can just cheese it with either Poseidon or Zeus focus.

[atomic ibex]

Pan Poseidon?

[gloomy shuttle]

Very surprising to hear that about blades, as Pan Poseidon is indeed super strong imo

On a theory side, for highests fear runs, do you think that going Fig Leaf second (underworld) has a significant impact for time, compared to going for a 2nd god ? As the 2nd god will increase my power and therefore make room clears faster

[glossy forge]

I almost always go fig leaf, gotta go for the herro skip

[gloomy shuttle]

herro ?

[glossy forge]

It’s where your fig leaf activates in the hellifish chamber, saving you a great deal of pain

Your heart sinks when you see the hellifish chamber, then it soars after seeing the empty room followed by the disco ball

[gloomy shuttle]

Yeah I get it, what a boss

For my last run it just sank as I got fig scammed in oceanus

[dim kelp]

Since Aphro is in the pool, I imagine Glamour Gain could work well? I think you’re likely to be in range pretty much always, and then you’d maybe have the option to get Sweet Surrender damage buff against Weak targets too

[gloomy shuttle]

Makes sense

[woeful moth]

How does centaur heart work when I have no healing vow enabled? Do I get cureent and max hp?

[atomic ibex]

Yes, the vow does not change that

[woeful moth]

So it can be used as a source of healing?

Or how do I deal with no healing other than git gud

[atomic ibex]

Yes, centaur hearts and a couple bugs are the only thing you can use to heal on Max scars

[woeful moth]

Does healing from selene also work on max scar?

[glossy forge]

No, Moon Water's healing does not work

[jolly swan]

got the best hammer combo I've ever seen today. Trick Knives + Melting Sickle

[harsh glacier]

best aspect of eos build rn?

[jolly swan]

I think it's heinous affront personally

[warm rivet]

What is ur guys favourite magick recovery boon?

[still sonnet]

im still not a massively experienced player but i am a big cardio gain supporter, especially with mirrored thrasher on the staff

[warm rivet]

I wish this one would work on pan. Had an insane pan run yesterday with a +5 heroic poseidon flourish and his legendary. Daedalus 40% channel speed. I tried playing with cardio gain but it only recovered magick on the first it which doesnt make sense at all. I still dished out like 2,5k per hit even tho i didnt have the daedalus hammer giving more blades. Just had heavy magick recovery problems

[still sonnet]

yeah unfortunately for alot of runs like that its kinda born gain or no magick which is pain

havent been using magick boons for the last little while though, been trying to get my second surface run finished with blood drops and i havent quite won yet

[gloomy shuttle]

Ionic gain works fine as well for me

[still sonnet]

i find ionic gain is just a little annoying to use, you have to somewhat stop what you're doing to go over to the orb and claim it

[gloomy shuttle]

True

Spawn can be annoying

But it assures that you won't run out during bossfights line you could with Hera's boon

[still sonnet]

that is true, but i find if you're doing a magick based build that you care about restoration you're building in such a way you probably wont be running out with born gain

i made a tier list of my personal opinion of gain boons but i didnt realize images cant be sent here

[gloomy shuttle]

Maybe you can send it in h2 discussion ?

Might not work

Why are images forbidden in the first place

[still sonnet]

idk thats strange

[gloomy shuttle]

You can still type it I guess

[glossy forge]

you can send the image you want in a different server, then right click on that image in that server, hit copy link, then paste it here

it'll show up as the original image

for example

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/777255977006923780/1377556098612985917/circe_wr.png?ex=68396497&is=68381317&hm=0f8e178b3c0da3e77f13c775e42ee3cc78308d0ac8dd0374a23db7e6534e27cc&

[still sonnet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/941843439467769867/1377556515027812374/image.png?ex=683964fa&is=6838137a&hm=6fda61834f6845a7eb9780165e9de3ec5049cc1c45bab68ca804030e7ca871fe&

[gloomy shuttle]

No images but links allowed is so weird

[still sonnet]

perfect ty

[gloomy shuttle]

Zeus C 😦

[still sonnet]

yeah like i said im just not really a fan, it kinda interrupts what im doing, at least its not fluid/tranquil though

[gloomy shuttle]

Can you send tiermaker so we can compare with mine ?

[glossy forge]

not gonna lie, idk about tier listing gain boons, it's so situational (aside from d tier, those are always outclassed)

[gloomy shuttle]

Agreed but I think some of them suits more situations tho

[glossy forge]

in that case born gain is the supreme overlord, fits almost every situation

[still sonnet]

i also threw in how fun they are to use and whatnot when thinking about them, but versatility and ease of use were there too

https://tiermaker.com/create/magick-restoration-boons-18279937 that link should work

[gloomy shuttle]

Maybe I misunderstand the boon, but Heph seems so crap to me that I can't remember the last time I took it

[glossy forge]

hey speaking of tier lists

https://tiermaker.com/create/hades-2-enemies-17998500

[still sonnet]

Heph is up there more for pure fun then it is viability, i find it really nice to try and make a tank build around it

[glossy forge]

I'm curious how people percieve the foes

[still sonnet]

this tier list reminded me of a random thought i had earlier, that being that hades 1 not having a similar punishment similar to vow that brings in later enemies earlier is really lucky, since flame wheels and satyrs and whatnot early would be pain

[glossy forge]

ah, now that would be pain

[gloomy shuttle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1171486246703468615/1377558113061703771/tiermanaaregenH2.png?ex=68396677&is=683814f7&hm=7cc49b9200a8952a8d0cd245446411cb19779f0216c7117686ed9b462a6f713b&

[glossy forge]

imagine armored shield bois in the first asphodel room

[still sonnet]

oh god

[gloomy shuttle]

I'll check enemies

Thought it was going to be yours. Might fill it later

but I can say right now that autowatchers have a reserved place in Tartarus.

[still sonnet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/941843439467769867/1377559074564214794/image.png?ex=6839675d&is=683815dd&hm=646c333c911e9505e59f6d636c97a49ceafbd5ee6ce51d53aac30f2c8707f98e&

[gloomy shuttle]

ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE IN THESSALY

[still sonnet]

i hate autowatchers with a burning passion

[surreal hazel]

Personally fluid gain can be great if you're using onegas a lot, since it procs off any hit

[still sonnet]

im sure there are uses for it i just really don't like it, feels kinda off to use and generally pretty weak compared to the others ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[gloomy shuttle]

Depends what omegas I'd say. When I use it, my manaa just decreases until there's none left

• them spraying all around is not exactly practical

Also Aphro one is a super good boon in my opinion, but not for its main purpose

My game isn't in eng so Idk how it's called

[still sonnet]

but yeah, autowatchers are my least favorite enemy in the game, seconded only by sticklers (they pull the same thing as prometheus does at the start of the fight but with even less reaction time)

[still sonnet]

glamour gain

[gloomy shuttle]

"Conscience sensuelle"

[gloomy shuttle]

I get it

I'm surprised that you put dragons that high

[surreal hazel]

Torches and pan tbh

100% uptime omega attack

[gloomy shuttle]

Makes sense, I may give it a try next time

[still sonnet]

i like them, their patterns are fairly fun to play around while not being too easy

also at some point i still have to try a proper torches run, one of those fine line/cut above/lots of things on the omega attack

[gloomy shuttle]

I was thinking about double duo Ares/Heph and Ares/Apollo as well

[still sonnet]

yeah cutting edge and coffin nail work pretty nicely

[surreal hazel]

Hera is great but there's no avoiding the fact you need to invest something into your mana cap, particularly with Vow of arrogance in play

Fluid gain still need a bit of a mana buffer too, since its gain rate is... "lumpy"

[gloomy shuttle]

But I mostly just play fear and log off once I win or get frustrated. Do you guys alternate between high fear and "fun" runs, or not really ?

[surreal hazel]

I have the fear levels that make the game more fun overall

more enemies that are tougher overall

[still sonnet]

i've been working on maxing aspects so i havent been focusing on one over the other rn

[surreal hazel]

since it's disappointing to get a really amazing build and never really get to experience it because everything just dies

[gloomy shuttle]

Overall seems ok to me, usually get some manaa on the way down, and/or grab double manaa on the surface if I'm not running Hecuba

[still sonnet]

latest fear setup for me has been max speed for enemies, max perks, and max enemies from later areas

[surreal hazel]

yeah, it doesn't need much, but you really need to have enough to keep yourself from zeroing yourself on bosses if you're mana hungry

[gloomy shuttle]

I play 32+ for now, working on becoming better OR finding ways to scam through vow of scars

[surreal hazel]

Born Gain also has the other thing going for it in that Hera's duos generally just want "one of hera's core boons" as her side of the deal

[still sonnet]

yeah

[surreal hazel]

they don't tend to rely on Hitch or a specific hera boon in order to work, unlike say... Apollo

[gloomy shuttle]

30% hp and armor enemies buffed will do I guess

[still sonnet]

i still need to try some of heras duos, in particular i really wanna try and make the ransom duos work

[surreal hazel]

Queen's Ransom only needs one of her cores, but I'd argue that you need some stuff that scales really well to make it worth it

By which I mean a source of hitch and hereditary bane

because lol +10% fixed scaling per level on bane

[gloomy shuttle]

OP

[still sonnet]

yeah and as many zeus boons as possible in order to get maximum levels out of it

[surreal hazel]

Ransom easily gets you into the world of "enemies take more damage from hitch than the thing that triggered hitch"

[gloomy shuttle]

You say it as if it was not cool

[surreal hazel]

it's hilariously powerful at room clearing

[still sonnet]

that kinda leaves the problem of when you want to get ransom though, since you either end up getting it too early and not getting as many levels out of it or you get it really late and you dont get to play with super OP boons

[surreal hazel]

Hera's Duos are just generally good too

some are a little situational, like incandescent aura

oh btw, protip if this ever comes up, If you have All Together, you can safely sacrifice it to king's ransom or a purging pool and you keep the 4 infusions that All Together granted you

[gloomy shuttle]

Also I don't think builds that are meh and suddently broken makes the run fun to play as a whole

[surreal hazel]

(unless one of them was proper upbringing, which king's ransom will also remove)

(but hey, 2 for 1 deal all the same)

[gloomy shuttle]

I'll keep it in mind

[still sonnet]

i think they're fun to try once or twice just to feel the power you get afterwards but yeah consistently using them gets old quick ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[surreal hazel]

you can get All Together, purge it at a purging pool... and then get it again!

all 8 infusions

[gloomy shuttle]

Then pray to get chaos elements on the way

[still sonnet]

jfc thats gotta go crazy with all 8

[surreal hazel]

Unless you have an Epic Creation from chaos, they're unlikely to all be active, but yeah

you become a monster of raw base stats

[still sonnet]

i mean just frosty veneer, water fitness, and wispy wiles give an insane amount of survivability ignoring other things like self healing and other ways to dodge or increase health

[surreal hazel]

assuming you can get veneer up

but yeah, if you do, you're a tank and a half

[still sonnet]

its not too difficult, 6 water isnt too crazy especially considering if you get them naturally you'll get water from demeter and poseidon, and if you cheese with hera you can get a few of the water on the way

[surreal hazel]

but yeah, if they're not there, you're relying on something else

and will probably be more reliant on the damage and evade flavours of infusion, still great

[still sonnet]

yeah, either way i really need to go fix my blood sugar and go to bed i have been stalling long enough

[surreal hazel]

lol, yes, look after yourself

[still sonnet]

i mean technically thanks to all my health issues my blood sugar will eventually go up on its own and i struggle to sleep even when i try, but leaving my blood sugar low when im trying to go to bed is always a little bit stressful for obvious reasons

[surreal hazel]

just checked, the only two hera duos that don't use born gain are Aphordite's (Needs to be one of the top three cores) or Hephs (Needs one of hera's non-cores, as a weird holdover from Spiteful Strength)

[gloomy shuttle]

Take care. What time is it for you ?

[still sonnet]

2:40am

[gloomy shuttle]

Yeah I guess you could consider going to sleep haha

10:40 for me. See you later then

[warm rivet]

Is „strike“ only the attack?

[errant latch]

I think strike is attack + special and strikes is omegas too?

[gloomy shuttle]

I think so

[surreal hazel]

Anything done with the attack and special buttons

[long lantern]

Quick question, how do I know if something boosts both the non-omega version and the omega version? Found a boon of chaos that boosts Specials but I am unsure if it is just my normal special or if it includes omega as well

[errant latch]

if it's plural it affects both

[woeful moth]

@magic moss hi, do I need to submit a video of the whole run as well for 50f+? Asking for future reference

[surreal hazel]

that one does both

[magic moss]

no

would be very nice to have a vod tho

[ember frigate]

what fear vows do you reccomend if trying to go for aspect of medea, surface F32

[worn oriole]

Depends, are you able to play with Frenzy on? And how well are you with Time

But generally some free fear to add would be: Denial, Hubris (2), Shadows, Scars (3, there are ways around no healing), Return (2), Menace (2)

[thin ridge]

Time 3 scars 2/3 hubris 2 return 2 menace 2 shadows if you are comfortable cause the damage can be ridiculous, denial if you are ok with having to reroll boons more strategically

[gloomy shuttle]

Scars 3 for 32F is crazy

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1171486246703468615/1377889804334665779/image0.jpg?ex=683a9b61&is=683949e1&hm=3def3b8d89e0b31c9bb20fc2eeed0e83edc889683f2db8e3d00906a63d20910b&

I would go like this, + what you feel comfortable using, forfeit is OK for surface, can also disable return and enable some stats

@ember frigate

[woeful saddle]

i know i asked this some time ago but what can we do with the witches staff?

i.e. strongest set, most fun, etc

[past salmon]

Scars 3 is based

[gloomy shuttle]

Apollo atk, Hestia manaa regen and hammer that makes atk hit twice is very strong I think

[gloomy shuttle]

True, hard though

[empty sable]

tried to set up a bridal glow winner's circle build this morning with glowing coal, but putting heph on the cast broke it lol. the first ding would go off, but then the cast would just sit there until the end of combat (dinging twice more and then despawning). really weird!

[woven idol]

which special is better on pan blades? is Poseidon always the best choice? What about Aphro special or anything else?

[spice olive]

Poseidon is just generally better, but aphro is probally more damage if you can get it to trigger/is close enough

[woven idol]

great, what about normals? Zeus?

[errant latch]

could also try poseidon aphro to try and proc getaway island

[woven idol]

the one that makes it so every enemy is always 'close'?

[errant latch]

yeah

[woven idol]

sweet

[errant latch]

also gets you 15% DR so that's fun

[spice olive]

Poseidon is also really good with the arcana that makes it so enemies undr curses take plus 50% damage. So poseidon special, the boon that activates slip and a curse attack or cast

[formal pulsar]

If you wanna do something not conventional with pan, trick knives hammer is extremely op with pan and that play style wants %atk like Hera, Apollo or even aphro (with island gateway). Poseidon is bad with that.

[brave dove]

omega builds and mirrored thrasher builds, mostly, if you're looking for really strong stuff for high fear

[next quarry]

slow cooker needs a nerf badly

[next quarry]

Use momus with apollo legendary and the hammer that makes ur omega attack go in a cross

[finite snow]

can someone pls explain to me why people take death arcana over strength? -50% damage taken and +25% damage dealt just seems ridiculously good to me over something I might not even proc the entire game

[next quarry]

i die too easily...

[magic moss]

The moment scars 3 is enabled, Death allowing you to buy refills or get refills through Athena's Renewed Faith, Echo's Survive x3, and Wells act as pseudo healing. Death is also safer than Strength if you plan on running Antler

[magic moss]

lmao did u watch the Haelian video

[brave dove]

you mean the majority of people? death's unlocked earlier and strength is not intuitive in how it effectively doubles both health and incoming healing, which is its biggest benefit over death, you have to sit down and do maths for that

for meta what mininet said

[stable herald]

Plus people are used to it from H1

[olive tusk]

I really love vow of fangs, it's barely even a difficulty thing, straight up adds more variety and fun in enemies

[woeful moth]

Damn, just had a great run with aspect of than and ares. Started with about 30% from blood drop in fight with typhon and ended with 67%

[long lantern]

I have been trying and following the Charon axe build and I see people talk about Geyser spout and I am a little confused. Do we not want to pop our cast to trigger lucid gain? Because whenever I try to pop an omega cast with the axe special nothing happens, so I am a little unclear on how to use geyser spout with charon

[errant latch]

geyser spout = +power to Ω cast
charon = if you hit cast with Ω special, turn cast into Ω cast

[long lantern]

Oh really? It does that? I feel like I never see the VFX of the Ω cast abilities I get whenever I use the Ω special

Normally there is an animation on Poseidon's spout of a large water sphere expanding and then exploding, does the charon interaction just skip the charge up?

[errant latch]

likely, since charon causes the cast to instantly explode, regardless of how long it has left

[long lantern]

That's dope, thanks for the clarification!

[gloomy shuttle]

@magic moss Yes sir I'll hit you up

@analog scarab what are the 3 that you don't enable for 47 fear ?

[magic moss]

ow

[analog scarab]

time

[gloomy shuttle]

Hahaha

I maybe could have guess that

[analog scarab]

How can it be that I have a Legendary Hestia unlocked, yet the game offers only two boons, among which there is no Legendary?..

[magic moss]

because legendaries arent guaranteed to spawn

the moment you meet the pre-reqs, the game rolls iirc a 12% chance to show the legendary. If you miss it, then it will not show the boon regardless of the pool left

[thin ridge]

It’s really not that good

[magic moss]

its really bugged rn

[ripe ember]

Pretty sure Burning Desire + Slow Cooker (7 fire) + Pyro Technique just carried my last Chronos fight. Barely had the chance to touch him in the back half of each health bar after dodging his combos.

[thin ridge]

What’s the bug? It feels really underwhelming

[magic moss]

the power addition applies globally due to a code oversight

[thin ridge]

So it’s +2 to base power?

[magic moss]

and so +2 power to attacks and specials dont mean just attacks and specials, it means +2 power to every individual instance of damage

[thin ridge]

Ig that could snowball

[magic moss]

so cast damage, blast, blitz, static shock, fire walk, prom flare, etc

[thin ridge]

They really doing ANYTHING but make hestia normal

[magic moss]

if you want a really fun build to try before its patched, stack as much fire as you can with slow cooker and go glorious disaster

[thin ridge]

This sounds terrible and amazing

[magic moss]

since the power is added to storm ring, prom flare, and glorious disaster damage individually, it genuinely turns the thing into an orbital laser

[thin ridge]

Can it follow hostile

[magic moss]

no idea havent tried

[ripe ember]

Could put an Arctic Gale on there too for the juiced cast of all time

[magic moss]

anyways for reference common prom flare deals 10 dmg per individual instance, so 5 fire with slow cooker literally doubles DPS

[magic moss]

you cant have both prom flare and arctic gale iirc, thing they mutually exclusive

[thin ridge]

Nice

[thin ridge]

Prom flare can’t have anything 🥲

[ripe ember]

Doesn't look like that to me, just Prom Flare, Geyser Spout, and Meat Grinder all blocking each other

[magic moss]

okie dokie then

[gloomy shuttle]

The only way for Hestia's legendary not to be garbage is trought bug lol

@analog scarab what did you build to go torches no manaa regen?

[empty sable]

honestly if they keep the bug but keep it to +1 global damage per fire element, it'll probably feel pretty balanced.

[analog scarab]

I just accidentally deleted all the mana regen boons... At first i played through Hestia's heroic attack and Demeter duo, and then I also got Hestia's legendary.

There's a screenshot in the other channel. Most of the time I just relied on the dog to dig up mana for me. I also had a chaos boon that reduced mana costs, so I was spending about 1 mana per attack.

[gloomy shuttle]

Nice chaos roll

I'll check it

[gloomy shuttle]

Is Hestia leg centered build more of a fun build, or truely reliable ? @magic moss

[drowsy mist]

oooh are we comparing death vs strength?

[gloomy shuttle]

Dude is typing a whole book

[drowsy mist]

In terms of powers
On a flat comparison, Strength provides better health (via fountains and general recovery) and a attack boost.

What is overlooked is that Death on the other hand can balance the benefit of keepsakes and boons that benefit from low health and can help it overwhelming take advantage

Accessibility
Death has a much lower barrier of entry, being one of the first arcana cards you unlock and likely upgraded due to its familiarity to Hades 1.

Strength on the otherhand is likely one of the last few cards you actually unlock with a 40 ashes price tag that can feel quite pricey. By the time you unlock it too, its likely you already have a maxed out or stage 2 Death making the "value comparison" on paper seems to fair Death.

Maxing strength out is also extremely difficult requiring 3 feathers.
It can also seem optuse because it takes away the inherent safety net of "not dying".
A side effect of Strength however is that it subconsciously forces you to "git gud" because you're under the impression you only have "1 live" each run.

Learning curve
Death carries a low barrier of entry, being a carry over from Hades 1. However, this can become a double edge sword for Death users as the inherent safety net might stop them from playing riskier builds that take advantage of Death's multiple "lives" and avoid stuff like "White Antler" and the like.

Strength on the other hand might seem to have a high barrier of entry, but it is a very plug and play arcana that provides exponential improvement the more you use it as you are forced to learn to play better while getting accustom to its benefits.

Both Arcana provide differing playstyles with Death itself also sprouting a 3rd but the underlying concept would be to try as many different arcana as possible as they can help expand how your runs will go.

This is mostly my personal opinion and experience though so do take it with a grain of salt.

[drowsy mist]

Nah, just a short summary bordering on 100 characters left :p

[gloomy shuttle]

Haha. I'll give it a read

Btw does vow of scars nullify chaos heal ?

[drowsy mist]

according to wiki, yes

I've only used it for the prophercy, sorry

[gloomy shuttle]

Imo strenght is better for high fear because the dmg amp allows you to clear room faster and therefore have less opportunities to get hit. Might be me unable to clear fast enough though

[drowsy mist]

define, high fear

[gloomy shuttle]

I mean according to wiki it's all heal, which is in fact wrong

[drowsy mist]

you mean Revival, correct?

[gloomy shuttle]

High enough for you to consistently die from time.

[gloomy shuttle]

No

[drowsy mist]

at around fear 16, strength starts to get annoyingly underpowered in Ephyra for time

[spare kite]

Charity bottle/circe's initial heal/dem's gathering hp boon/vampiric cross all go through scars

[gloomy shuttle]

Hammer that makes your omega atk heal you with witch staff is not affected by vow of scars

[spare kite]

And dds/max hp ofc, the rest all blocked

[brave dove]

So, a couple of things... firstly, White Antler is basically the only keepsake that Death is actively helpful with and that's completely balanced out by the fact that White Antler is only really used by speedrunners and for normal play, Athena's keepsake is much stronger.

Similarly, you don't need max rank Strength before it's better. Rank 2 Strength actually outperforms Rank 2 Death more than Rank 3 Strength does Rank 3 Death and both are gated by large amounts of Moon Dust for Rank 3 before Feathers vs. Stardust comes into play.

Secondarily, the playstyle difference... does not exist. Strength is better at playing aggressively and it is also better at playing defensively. It is better with attack builds, it is better with cast builds. It is better with omega builds, it is better with 0 magicka builds... you get the point.

Death is only advantageous, specifically, with Scars 3 and extremely specific boon combinations. Speedrunners will still run Strength even with White Antler because the risk is worth the damage boost (completely ignoring that White Antler was nerfed to only last one region).

[gloomy shuttle]

How can strengh be underpowered if it makes you do more dmg and take less ? As you obviously want to clear Ephyra fast and don't plan to die on a regular room

[drowsy mist]

I'm not talking about speed running

[brave dove]

You're talking about Strength causing you to go slower... you're going to need to unpack that one because Strength gives a damage boost and Death does not.

[drowsy mist]

I mean more like, the damage you do makes it hard to hit the time limit

[brave dove]

Similarly, Strength doubles your healing from the Ephyra fountain and any food you find at the shop, while Death requires you find a DD refill to recover your run if you take even half of your ehp in damage in Ephyra.

[gloomy shuttle]

I play 40 to 50 rn so it happens fairly often that I time out. I agree for lower fear

[drowsy mist]

nah, Strength definitely makes you faster

[brave dove]

I'm confused by what you mean by 'underpowered' then

[drowsy mist]

Jesus, I can barely survive 26

[brave dove]

32 Surface is a pain in the ass but not for time reasons IMO, Return aside

well, sort of for time reasons, but not really due to your damage

[gloomy shuttle]

It's just a question of being used to it I think @drowsy mist , at first even 24 seemed very hard to me

[brave dove]

Rather, Prometheus loves absorbing your time saves with his memory game

[drowsy mist]

That's fair, I would love to sink more time but auto fire sucks with omega moves and I'm trying to avoid carpal tunnel

[brave dove]

and thessaly just plain sucks

I found switching to controller fixed my RSI issues back in H1 fwiw

[drowsy mist]

I'm using a switch controller

[brave dove]

maybe get an xbox one if you're worried about ergonomics?

[drowsy mist]

its mostly the button mashing for me

[brave dove]

thumbs are pretty resilient, it's mouse buttons that are the real killer

[drowsy mist]

I'm also a digital artist so, there's that too XD

[gloomy shuttle]

I have no such problem, but I'm not sinking hours most of the days either

[drowsy mist]

double rti/carpal than the usual person

I usually sink like 3-5 hours a day once a week

[gloomy shuttle]

More regularity could help for sure

[drowsy mist]

I'm still under 100 hours unfortunately XD

[gloomy shuttle]

I have precisely 147h

[drowsy mist]

I can probably clear both at 32 feear before hitting 90 hours hopefully

or I could wait for the game to fully release before breaking my arms

[gloomy shuttle]

Abuse broken builds, it will greatly help to get used to higher fear

[drowsy mist]

@brave dove btw to clarify, I am a strength user

[brave dove]

I might just wait until next patch to do 32f surface

[drowsy mist]

I just wanted to give Death a fair chance

[brave dove]

Right but I'm saying there's no build distinction outside of niche edge cases, Strength is just better

[gloomy shuttle]

I'd expect new vows for next patch. I might be in delusion though

[brave dove]

Death needs a buff

[brave dove]

Extreme Measures is coming for at least some bosses

which will ease up on 32f surface a bunch because some free fear vows for UW are nightmarish there

[drowsy mist]

sigh fairrrrrrrrrr

[brave dove]

(menace, shadow servants)