h2-builds-and-combat

[worthy epoch]

thats interesting ive been running hera for flourish to make the ospecial rinse

[torpid crane]

Arcana is the same one from the spreadsheet. I experimented with silver wheel so I could run origination or strength (I’d need a gain).. but I was already struggling with RNG so that made it way worse

[worthy epoch]

yeah ive swapped origination and tried to run a budget mel skulls but the dps still sucks

[torpid crane]

I tried that too to the same result lol

[torpid crane]

I wanted a cast that could chunk + remove barriers, and I figured I could make due with one of apollo, hera, or aphro special

[worthy epoch]

also i dont think smolder ring helps with the meter on persephone (or if it did i could not tell) which really blows

[magic moss]

foolish recommends hera start for the special into any dps cast since night is typically enough for the early rooms

but the arcana i think origination > boatman if you're struggling with damage

[worthy epoch]

yeah im running the foolish set most of the time right now

[torpid crane]

I have unseen

I don’t think I can afford running origination

[magic moss]

right i forgot that yeah

[torpid crane]

Does scorch burn barriers?

[worthy epoch]

it does

[magic moss]

Create the arcana sheet
forget whats on it

[worthy epoch]

its like my favorite 50f cast but on pers its not that good specifically, everything else its actually insane

[torpid crane]

Rousing reception gives you meter, so if you get ring + rousing that could help fill it up (along with omega)

[worthy epoch]

oh oh oh i didnt know that

[torpid crane]

I can never get a second hera to appear for me to grab it lol

[fervent coyote]

dude I swear timer 3 isn’t real

running out of time at Cerberus? This can NOT be it

[torpid crane]

Demeter is very unintentionally glued to my cast slot and it’s kinda funny how she always shows up in all my runs but never zeus or hestia

[worthy epoch]

well i mean dem is goated so nothing wrong with that i guess, i barely get her and keeping pulling hestia or apollo which i do not really want right now

[torpid crane]

I’ll try out hera start

[worthy epoch]

basically just go for flourish and ocast until charged its pretty good if you get the flourish early, otherwise timer ends you instantly

[stuck ether]

Lack or boatman is why persephone is the worst aspect

[torpid crane]

@worthy epoch How many skips do you normally get during erebus?

[worthy epoch]

0-2 i havent seen artemis today and only nem once im kinda getting scammed

[steel sequoia]

persephone is fine, theres far worse aspects

[worthy epoch]

usually just midshop and arachne

[stuck ether]

No boatman 50f makes it bad

[torpid crane]

Your luck might be worst than mine actually

My run that died in tartarus had nemesis AND artemis in erebus, which I didn’t know could happen

[worthy epoch]

dang. im also getting rare fountains but still not nearly enough

[torpid crane]

I haven’t gotten a single fountain yet

I don’t know why I can’t see one

[stuck ether]

Wait till you guys miss artemis and nemesis in erebus
Then have oceanus refuse to give a shop, fountain, nem, narc, or artemis

[torpid crane]

Narc feels like the rarest of the NPCs, namely bc he may be behind a locked valve

Even then his rewards are mostly useless save for like 3 of them

[worthy epoch]

i get nem in oceanus consistently but it doesnt matter bc i never make it there

[torpid crane]

That free dd is crazy but I never get it

[stuck ether]

Oceanus seals eating my shop and narc felt so horrible

[worthy epoch]

narc lowkey goated, health + shield underrated if no heph has been pulled

[torpid crane]

Nemmy will show up and give me a dd on a run that is 1000% going to die on timer and on good runs she gives me food

[worthy epoch]

wait nem can give a dd??

[torpid crane]

Yup

[fervent coyote]

yeah she can

[stuck ether]

Rarely

[fervent coyote]

She used to be able to do it when you were full

[worthy epoch]

aint no way

[fervent coyote]

yeah and you’d just look at your screen and sigh deeply

[torpid crane]

I had a dagger run that she killed by showing up instead of echo and gave me magick

but I forgive her bc she gives me good stuff usually

[worthy epoch]

this is a lifestyle

[fervent coyote]

out of time at chronos with 1 dd is it possible

[worthy epoch]

how much health

[torpid crane]

Just crit everything

[worthy epoch]

forgot i was doing so bad with pers yesterday i ran embryo for like an hour

[torpid crane]

I feel like I should switch aspects but my penchant for self mental harm stops me from stopping

[worthy epoch]

ive only got medea to turn to or 51f so this is pretty much it for me

[torpid crane]

I have ABSURD luck with embryo

It’s just that whenever I use embryo, my luck everywhere else plummets

[worthy epoch]

i had a strike start which was insane but it swapped to discovery and i immediately crashed and burned

[torpid crane]

dude I had on lions fang

[past salmon]

I really don't know how people struggle with Perseph so much

I'm like 4/6 Perseph 50F attempts

[torpid crane]

I was in hell

[worthy epoch]

you run 50f medea for FUN its not a fair comparison

[past salmon]

That's because 50F Medea is fun!

[stuck ether]

“Medea of the day”

[worthy epoch]

looking forward to it bossman

[past salmon]

All the Medea deniers gonna be in shambles when I get 55F Medea done frfr

[limpid coral]

medea is free if y

[past salmon]

You just don't get hit exactly

[worthy epoch]

[torpid crane]

every 60 minutes, an hour passes in africa

[past salmon]

So true and real

[worthy epoch]

MEDEA GUY

[stuck ether]

In what a year? How many 55 attempts do you evek do a day
1? 2? None?

[torpid crane]

Medea was made by Tyler Perry right?

or is that Madea

[worthy epoch]

none bc theyre gonna get it first try

[past salmon]

I occasionally do 3

[stuck ether]

ok guys so it wont be done till december

[worthy epoch]

foolish run a 55f medea rn

[past salmon]

Hey I have a tart entry on Medea 55F
It will happen trust

[worthy epoch]

thats actually insane

[past salmon]

At work all day unlucky

[stuck ether]

i havbe a lot of tart entries on 50f why didnt i clear

[worthy epoch]

tragic but bag is priority

[torpid crane]

The goldy sacks are also a bag

[past salmon]

Skill issue (tempus issue probably)

[torpid crane]

Prioritize clearing tart

[worthy epoch]

actually true

[stuck ether]

its always a tempus issue

[torpid crane]

No, no, it is 100% a skill issue on my end

Unrelated but why did I just see a headline saying that the NZ food bank accidentally gave out candy laced with lethal doses of meth

[stuck ether]

NZ is wildin

[past salmon]

Wtf 😭
How have I not heard this

[sage flame]

wtf theres no way right

[torpid crane]

Yes way

Someone donated it and they handed it out unknowingly

Someone was on demon time

[spare kite]

The hell

[sage flame]

wowza

[elfin ivy]

Sounds healthier than every American candy combined ngl

And every Nestle product combined 🔥

[slate crow]

someone ples give me build for any weapon other than staff

and please write it as a list
example:
weapon: x
aspect: x

attack: demeter
special: none
cast: zeus

etc.

[split igloo]

Weapon: Blades
Aspect: Pan

Special: Poseidon
Cast: Lightning Lance or Glowing Coal

Everything else is window dressing, the entire build revolves around your special. It's like Thunder Flourish Aspect of Chiron from H1 but you actually get an AoE blast on every single knife/arrow.

[slate crow]

oooooh that sounds brokennnnnn

thank u bro

[slate crow]

what are the optimal arcanas? can u send me a screenshot via DMs.

[torpid crane]

Weapon: Torches
Aspect: Moros

Attack/Special: Hera
Get Night Bloom (the hex that resurrects a fallen enemy) and Sun Worshipper (Hera/Apollo duo) and have 2 enemies fight for you. However the really cool thing is that you can apply hitch to them and to any enemies you fight, so while they're clustered up with whoever you're fighting, you can use Moros explosions to attack everyone at once and apply a ton of damage through hitch

[slate crow]

bet

what are optimal arcanas tho

[torpid crane]

I cannot name them off the top of my head but titan, boatman, origination, and huntress are some you'd want

[uneven palm]

Typically the whole rolls and cash corner, the whole row with Eternity, Lovers, Swift Runner, Origination, then take your pick of furies, huntress, messenger, sorceress, Titan depending on if you’re doing more Omegas or not

[slate crow]

I see

[magic moss]

I have added a major update to the Hades 2 50F spreadsheet if yall want to check it out, its in the patch 4 misc stats sheet

[past salmon]

^ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit?gid=0#gid=0

[torpid crane]

@magic moss please save red and I from persephone

[worthy epoch]

😭

me getting on for some late night runs rn

[worthy epoch]

this is crazy and useful good job mini!

[tame steppe]

I'm stuck at 45 fear moros, any tips to getting Revenant, Onion and the arcana nullifier online and consistent?

[past salmon]

Abandon hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[limpid coral]

45 with abandon real

[worthy epoch]

dont run abandon unless you are doing a post 50 fear run

or are psycho live your truth

[past salmon]

onion is just survive the first 3 rooms without a gain basically, you can use the magick refill in the first room to make that one easy.

Rev's are just a time waster, on Moros it shouldn't be much of an issue

[tame steppe]

ive cleared 45 without those boons should I say, im trying to get them on for 55 eventually

[worthy epoch]

do 50 first, disregard abandon for a bit

[past salmon]

gl with 55 it sucks 🫡

[worthy epoch]

and check out the spreadsheet mininet posts its very useful for setups and stuff for 50f

[tame steppe]

thanks, really appreciated, im going persephone after this 😛 its the only skull I like

[worthy epoch]

gl (persephone is the bane of my existence)

[tame steppe]

Storm ring / anvil really is necessary tbh, without it, id hate it

[past salmon]

I did a singular run today and died Chronos P2.2 to skill issue I'm sorry bros but I actually don't get all you people's struggle with this aspect 😭

[worthy epoch]

i died p2.2 earlier and p1 but aside from that i have only one other tart entry

(in like 50-60 runs)

[past salmon]

I've found cast matters a lot less than getting Hera special early

my run today had arctic ring actually
It was like fine

[tame steppe]

really? thats interesting, I find my survival and clear really depends on how fast I get a good charge for special extension

[past salmon]

with night card you can charge special easily until lategame anyway, and since Erebus is the hardest part of Persphone 50F, having Hera special to make u not die to timer tends to be better

[dark vessel]

managing to get a good amount of zeus boons, his main attack boon and furious whirlwhind with high mana regen/ faster channeling from hermes on the axe is stupidly fun. i love turning into a helicopter

[proper flame]

Anyone got an up-to-date aspect tier list?

[magic moss]

tierlist for what? every aspect has cleared 50 fear multiple times so they're all good in the sense of clearing in terms of difficulty

[past salmon]

I should make a tierlist for 50F that sounds fun and then I can haver a bunch of people disagree with my opinions

[magic moss]

but right now moros and charon are top2 aspects uncontested followed by mel axe/thanatos/mel skulls

[stuck ether]

i wouldnt disagree with you

you know better than me

[proper flame]

Just like in general, I'm pretty nee and want to know which ones I should try to unlock

[magic moss]

in terms of clear efficiency, moros and charon are uncontested and speedwise moros has a higher ceiling than charon but charon is far easier to play and learn

[past salmon]

since when is Moros better speedwise

[magic moss]

i said has a higher ceiling which doesnt necessarily mean better

[past salmon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246695893361496087/1274103834540769340/image.png?ex=66c10929&is=66bfb7a9&hm=291d6d028cb1439c3d60e711383a8845c84c38ede2690be6de27a36084cd88f3&

Anyways I did this in like 2 seconds flat and put almost no thought into it haha funny high fear aspect tierlist

[magic moss]

in a god run with perfect rng, moros can beat charon but most realistic runs charon is better

[past salmon]

are we talking high fear or low fear
Because atleast atm (and past patches) Charon has been beating Moros in anyfear consistently

[proper flame]

K thanks, I already have both lol

[magic moss]

higher fears

[past salmon]

idk I think Charon could match/beat Moros timer wise in high fear too

It's just noone really plays a lot of Charon (cuz its poopy and fake)

[magic moss]

it probably can but im basing my beliefs on practice not theory

and in practice moros requires less rng to succeed consistently

[past salmon]

this is way different to saying Moros has a higher ceiling though

Ceiling includes getting the good rng so rng shouldnt be a factor

[velvet epoch]

Y'all, I need help. I stink with the torches, and I'm stuck on the Chaos Trial with the Daybreaker and the Aphrodite boons. It's driving me nuts.

[tall notch]

Why are all the good weapons in D tier

does D stand for "Deviously strong"?

[velvet epoch]

No, the torches are garbage.

[tall notch]

No u

[velvet epoch]

That's entirely besides the point.

[sage flame]

any reason for artemis higher mel blades? i feel like they are almost equally alright

not that i disagree too much im just more curious

[magic moss]

parry is far easier to play around than the backstab and the added crit damage means their damage to guardians is roughly similar

[sage flame]

fair

[stuck ether]

Id say mel blades is honestly less
Most guardians turn fast and scylla cant be backstabbed at all

[sage flame]

yeah it (and all blades) are serviceable on bosses fortunately just cause blades single target is pretty good in general but arty still obv is better as facestabbing

• u can just get skulking lol

[tall notch]

Maybe I'm crazy, but since patch 4 I like Mel blades more? They got a stronger early game with their damage increase not being bound to a cooldown like parry crit

And early into a run (which is where the 100% additive matters the most), it's fairly easy to get backstabs

[magic moss]

imo with the buffs to mel blades i think mel blades = artemis but mel blades also is harder to effectively play

[wild swan]

i generally find artemis better without exactly the right hammers. Mel blades come alive with great hammers but I don't always get those

[worthy epoch]

i concur with this mel blades feel a lot easier to use when traveling through the zones, regardless of the dps loss on most guardians compared to artemis

[tall notch]

For bosses you can just put together something like freezer burn

[worthy epoch]

exactly, and honestly the backstab damage is good enough to get me through erebus almost always with even half decent boons

[sage flame]

thank goodness im not crazy

[worthy epoch]

i struggled a lot to get artemis started but mel is solid alone

[past salmon]

I think Artemis is just harder.
Crit is effectively multiplicative damage which is crazy good and the parry for 1 sec invuln can help in a lot of situations where blades suffer.

Mel blades is just a lot simpler to use, I think Arty is significantly stronger

[stuck ether]

Yeah mel blades can be thrown out and does its thing but artemis excells when its used how its meant to be

[worthy epoch]

thats totally fair when i actually was able to use the arty ability it was crazy

[magic moss]

we are now at 191 unique clears

[glossy rivet]

yoo is traces of spirit from medea just busted good or what?

[spare kite]

is that the mana one?

[uneven palm]

192 🙂

IMO Mel and Arty blades feel about even unless Arty gets Explosive Ambush (and you have magick) which is basically a big “I win” button.

[sweet girder]

Does anyone also believe that in higher fears if you don't get a good start you just lose. That's why starting god/ess keepsake is so good.

That's one thing I don't like in higher fears. It makes you have so many runs until you have a good start.

[uneven palm]

Yeah Erebus is the hardest part, and at the extremes it’s really more good luck with rooms than anything else

[limpid coral]

there is a point where that stops being a skill issue because of erebus room rng but it is not 40 or 42 or 45

[sweet girder]

Yeah if you get an insane amount of waves you're also kind screwed.

[past salmon]

Idk I think the RNG requirements for higher fears (45-50) are exaggerated a little bit.

It is very rare that I get a run where I go "no matter what I did there I lose"

[sweet girder]

You're right. You can almost always play well enough to win it just gets more difficult with rng.

[glossy rivet]

ya is it supposed to just keep giving me mana for the entire run

[west summit]

Well yeah

[surreal hazel]

So it looks like Romantic Spark and Toasting fork is even more buggy than I thought

It's adding bonus bonuses onto a blitz activation, and then blitz is also striking twice

but literally on the same frame, so it's hard to tell at first

but I was about to ligtly hit an armour enemy, run into them proc blitz, and they die instantly, so clearly one hit is stripping their armour and the other is killing them

[upbeat plover]

What is best weapon to pair with Artemis keepsake?

[surreal hazel]

Artemis literally gives you crit chance on every damage type, so basically anything goes mostly

but if there was a build style to choose, go for ones with good range, since you can kill everything from a safer distance

or ones with good damage prevention

[fervent coyote]

Does engraved pin activate only on the first dd you use in a room

[glossy rivet]

is origination still a must have arcana

[fervent coyote]

oh I didn’t realize it was

but I guess since it’s way easier to apply curses in this game it would be

[surreal hazel]

basically yes

[limpid coral]

No
Become a boatman believer

[past salmon]

no

[cursive oyster]

yes otherwise it would make bosses free

[fervent coyote]

Can it activate on any of the mourning fields encounters

[limpid coral]

once per encounter

[cursive oyster]

yes it can activate on all two/three and also i believe if you dont proc it in the last encounter it can proc when heading to the door

[dark vessel]

Any tips for fighting eris while using the base axe? can manage to get to her relatively easy before getting whooped. she tends to have way too much range/Aoe and mobility, with a cruise ship supply worth of health

[limpid coral]

Pls use your block

[fervent coyote]

I swear there’s like 2 attacks that using block is safe for

Honestly the best advice I have for Eris is just: if you’re whaling into her dash behind when she looks like she’s about to attack

[limpid coral]

??

[fervent coyote]

the snipe and the machine gun fire

[limpid coral]

block -> dash -> block -> dash ->

[fervent coyote]

if she’s using the spread fire i don’t think that’d work

[dark vessel]

its mostly the shotgun that takes me behind the shed, yeah

[wise idol]

Shotgun is easy to just get behind her

[fervent coyote]

if you manage to do this then you can avoid shotgun tho

[wise idol]

Then turn with her while getting damage in

[fervent coyote]

yeah other than shotgun the rest should be pretty simple

if you’re really struggling to get behind her before she does it you can just use one of the pillars and wait it out

[dark vessel]

i'll keep it in mind, she's been my main bane in the game thus far, managed to get her to phase 2-3 a few times before i tend to go down, especially after the buffs. thought about using the pillars, but my memory from the first game of most columns being destructible is screwing me up hard since i started replaying it recently

[fervent coyote]

lol yeah nah in eris’ fight only her snipe destroys the column and you can just avoid that by sprinting perpendicular to the line of sight

if you’re not standing right at her obviously

[fervent coyote]

if this is your problem then no one will judge you for just waiting out the buffs

[dark vessel]

i'll have to try again against eris, probably later after i get sleep...cant wait to fight polyphemus again, he's maybe my second favorite fight, behind Cerb's fight

[sweet girder]

What I do against eris is play super passive. I find you can doge most of her attacks if you aren't focusing on getting stray hit off. It takes a while so it isn't good if you have the time limit, but it's consistent.

[bright token]

did you guys notice that taking hermes or chaos core-like boons makes the respective regular boons go way down the probability pool?

like if you take chaos or hermes sprint, good luck getting the core sprint of your god you need

similarly if you already took chaos +attack, core attack will struggle to appear
very strange behavior and frankly uncalled for. chaos is already a big gamble

[spare kite]

Is this factual or just bad luck

[bright token]

i haven't pulled any data, it's just an observation. i've been playing a lot of zeus+aphro and i always need the aphro dash. it's very easy to get it without sprint boons, but was nearly impossible in at least 4 runs with chaos/hermes sprint taken already

[wise idol]

almost definitely bad luck

those boons werent considered core in h1 and have no reason to in this game

[civic ocean]

Never had this problem, yeah

[hazy oar]

IHey making sure. How overpowered would it be if like Moonwater healed by percentage rather then by just a static number?

[shy harbor]

extremely

it used to heal 25 and was nerfed to 15 because 25 was too strong

its so strong because of the path of stars that makes it so it starts adding up with fountains
if you get that early enough u can go into the final boss with more than 10 uses of moon water

[hazy oar]

Okay but like instead it just does like... 5% percent healing

and with path of stars it's max 20%

[shy harbor]

so 20% of 200 health is still 40 healing and if you get like 300 health thats up to 60
so rlly strong

[tall notch]

It'd reckon it would be weaker early game when your life total is low and become really useful later on. Ofc at high fear no one would still play moon water ever

[shy harbor]

ya moon water is not great high fear because enemies hit so hard anyways

[sage flame]

barely see hexes used at all tbf but especially moon water

at high fear*

[tall notch]

It does literally nothing at high fear because healing doesn't work there

[tall notch]

Weapons that actually use magick like hexes. Issue is that most weapons will go for a magickless build if they can because it's harder to build magick weapons

[sage flame]

yeah exactly

[hazy oar]

...also is Soot Sprint good?

or Anvil Ring?

[civic ocean]

Also most omega attacks suck against rebuke because they hit once

[cursive oyster]

anvil ring is in the lower end of casts but its still good, soot sprint is pretty bad except on surface where it trivializes eris

[civic ocean]

Wtf does good mean

[cursive oyster]

i mean

[civic ocean]

Try them and find out

[tall notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN79j1QS2B4 yeah anvil ring is pretty good. Not the best in terms of casts, but if you want a damage-focused cast and can't get storm ring it's solid

[warped marten]

I stumbled upon a strangely effective build that involves Wolf Howl, which I almost never pick up but did so on a whim. You pick up duality (cast when you take off), frenzy (trigger inflict dash boon on use) , and Heph dash (picked it up at epic so 400 damage). The DPS is absolutely bonkers; you basically run up to chronos and do 2x300ish plus 2x400 heph blast damage and with liberal iframes sprinkled in.

[cursive oyster]

add in the apollo duo and his cast for more damage, pom it a few times, and equip antler and you phase chronos instantly with the wolf howl

[bright token]

has anyone experimented with the highest dmg combinations of boons outside of hammers?
i'm trying to do sub9 with than axe and the only reliable way i've found is zeus attack, aphro dash and hestia cast with all respective duos. but it's still a lot of rng involved getting the duos, and then heph on top is almost essential to cut the corners

[wild swan]

Wolf Howl is pretty great with some path of stars upgrades

[tall notch]

Even back in patch 1, wolf howl was one of my favourites for the mobility. After they've made it actually deal damage it's even better

[wild swan]

crazy cheap as far as magic goes, too, compared to the other hexes

[tall notch]

The beam is cheaper I think

[bright token]

interesting. never mained hexes. i dont even know how it works. can it actually carry a speedrun build? kill chronos in under a minute?

[tall notch]

Not sure about speedruns given the amount of investment required to get a hex going but for fear pushing they're a good mix of extra damage and utility

[bright token]

i'm in a 32f kindergarten now but i intend to carry some knowledge over to 50f some day. of course you can't swing duos left and right at 50f with the cursed onion

but what i can say for sure is romantic spark - the thing that i was dissapointed with when i started trying it out - turned out to be one of the strongest duos in the game

also demeter + hera +1 keepsake bumps antler to 50% crit
but a lot of duos are still either underwhelming or too restrictive in activation, not easy to build around them

[shy harbor]

that one duo that makes attack and special do 200%

annoys me so much like when will u get it and not have those

[tall notch]

Freezer burn is a sick duo, i think like 2/3 of my 50f blades clears were freezer burn

And the build path is very reasonable. Scorch attack is good on blades and arctic ring is probably the strongest cast

[civic ocean]

Freezer burn and hot flash both seem very good

[magic moss]

statistically freezer burn and elementary particles are the most commonly picked duos iirc

[civic ocean]

That checks out in the sense that Demeter, Hera and Hestia seem like they'd be picked pretty often at 50 for Cast, Strike, and Gain, respectively

[bright token]

freezer burn is good for rapid hit weapons. but for than axe not much of a bump

also i'm not sure it's a dps gain compared to aphro + scorch duo but i really have no idea how exactly it functions

[magic moss]

have you seen the updated patch 4 misc sheet?

[bright token]

yeah hera + demeter + hestia is very good for 50f

it's more concrete gain

[magic moss]

cuz i updated the sheet recently to have boons stats for every patch 4 clear

[tall notch]

Hot flash seems like more of a nice to have while freezer burn is a late game wincon in itself

[civic ocean]

You know me tho I see hot flash and I immediately think of air fryer

[tall notch]

Air fryer is dead

[civic ocean]

???

Like at 50 or

[tall notch]

I mean what's the point of going for a whole 5 air infusion if you can click either a t2 hestia boon or freezer burn for a better effect? It's a lot of work without having that much of a payoff

I've been having FB hit for 5k against Chronos. Air fryer can't do that

[civic ocean]

You get it for free with the duo and sometimes you don't get FB

Also like idk a lot of stuff is "dead" at 50 if thats the criteria, normal people are playing this game at 32 and under right

[tall notch]

Both these things require way less setup than air fryer which requires 5 air and the infusion itself. Like you can play it if you wanna meme but I wouldn't say it's a good pick if you're playing at whatever the highest difficulty you're comfortable with is

It's competing against a t2 hestia boon that's even pommable iirc because the two do more or less the same thing and they don't work together well

[civic ocean]

What is the t2 hestia boon

[tall notch]

Scorch ticking faster, whatever the name was

[civic ocean]

How is that in any way better

[bright token]

air infusion is very good for lots of small hits. like it turns cyclone demeter cast into a murder machine

[tall notch]

Tick faster = use up your scorch = deal more damage

It's wayyy easier to get and scales with poms and rarity

[civic ocean]

It's the same damage

In fact isn't it less damage with FB

[tall notch]

If they deal the same damage and one is infinitely easier to set up, which of the 2 options wins? Air fryer or a t2 boon?

[civic ocean]

But they don't deal the same damage one objectively deals more damage per 80 scorch than the other

Pyro technique is so bad man

[bright token]

same flat values across all weapons for boons is a big downside, it's very limiting in choosing the playstyle

[stuck ether]

Pyro technique is only bad if youre relying on a common scorch cast for origination

[civic ocean]

Like it's one thing to say that the other duos get you way more damage like sure Inget that but Pyro Technique is only ever good with the 100 bonus scorch on 0 scorch hit

[civic ocean]

Or if you use natural gas

[bright token]

i hope it will be changed somehow. why does scorch give same flat to axe swing as to torches and daggers? doesn't make a lot of sense

[civic ocean]

And you don't kill before it ticks down

[civic ocean]

Also like 4 air boons and frinos pacifying stuff is like objectively good ur getting like static shock support fire greater evasion lightning lance lucid gain etc

It's not a cost its just good

[past salmon]

This is like, wrong
Plenty of things can apply enough scorch to easily keep up with pyro

[civic ocean]

Plenty of things also can't

[past salmon]

Ok. That's not the point gamer

[bright token]

also question. have any of you guys ever gotten big hera to zeus sacrifice? like 3+ boons? how massive is the dmg bump at those ranks or does it stop scaling at some point?

[past salmon]

I did it with old Hera attack scaling and it was fire.

Like 500% damage attack boon

[civic ocean]

The point is that different stuff works for different playstyles

[past salmon]

I think Zeus scales pretty well aswell

[bright token]

maybe i'll try to go for aphro + zeus duo and then hera sacrifice. but it also requires such massive setup, not easy to get in a speedrun

[past salmon]

You said pyro is useless outside of spontaneous, I pointed out that there are loads more things that pyro does well with.
That was the point. That pyro is pretty great with a lot of stuff.

[stuck ether]

Doible strike and storm ring scale amazingly with like 4 hera boons netting 80+ damage and 50%+ double strike

[bright token]

wowsers

[civic ocean]

Yeah but it also like anti-synergizes with Freezer Burn specifically which is why I'm confused Coldshade is bringing it up

[bright token]

i'm a bit tired running zeus + hestia + aphro + heph cause it requries too much setup

[civic ocean]

I am not the guy who needs convincing that lots of stuff works with lots of stuff that's literally how Air Fryer started

[surreal hazel]

pyro technique goes hard when you get hot flash

[civic ocean]

Yeah I could see that being beast

If you mitigate its downside its pretty strong for sure

[surreal hazel]

also if you just have way too much scorch

[stuck ether]

Me watching my 1 scorch do 120 dps bc hot flash funny

[past salmon]

I don't think Cold wasnt bringing them up as a "use them together" type thing.

Cold was just pointing out that Pyro is like as good as Air fryer but with way less setup

Scorch number issues are easily fixed

[surreal hazel]

for some reason it's the only primary whose Strike is stronger than its flourish

[civic ocean]

Yeah I don't really buy that PT is outputting nearly as much dmg as AF in practice having tested both

[tall notch]

It is a cost because you have to take Zeus (which you don't always want to hard target) and have to pick specific things from artemis and hermes

[surreal hazel]

and sometimes you just get way too much to ever make use of, which was the original point of fire extinguisher

[surreal hazel]

ehh, did you factor in Origination affecting scorch?

[past salmon]

But... It just does though

[civic ocean]

Yeah

[surreal hazel]

because Air Fryer is 180 DPS base, Scorch, unmodified, but with origination, is still 120

[civic ocean]

Not in my experience

[tall notch]

Zeus alone won't get you air fryer and you'd have to take a 2nd air god or get tons of air somewhere else. It's not impossible but much harder than just clicking pyro

[past salmon]

That's cool bro but unfortunately math doesn't care about your feelings

[civic ocean]

Show me the math

[surreal hazel]

pyro technique is a zero damage improvement if you're outputting tiny amounts of scorch, but if you go hard on it, it really speeds things up

[tall notch]

Air fryer = 180 dps
150% pyro (which isn't impossible) = 80*2.5 = 200 dps

[past salmon]

Air fryer does 180dps.

Pyro is base 50% but can go way higher, epic is like 100? I think maybe.
If you have origination scorch is already doing 120dps, orig doesn't effect AQ.
120 dps with a 100% pyro is doing 240dps which is in fact more than 180dps

[surreal hazel]

and origination, which doesn't benefit air frier, but does just regular scorch

[civic ocean]

Please show me a clip of a boss fight of you maintaining 150% ticking scorch on a boss

[tall notch]

Oh yeah I forgot about orig

[stuck ether]

Dont forget that pyro can also be pom scaled so its like 125% at epic + pom

[civic ocean]

You're applying 200 scorch a second over the entire span of a boss right

[civic ocean]

I'll take this actually

120 dps with a 100% pyro requires the application of 160 scorch per second

Can you show me a clip of you keeping that up on a boss

[bright token]

what is air fryer?

[limpid coral]

why's keeping 100% uptime important if all the scorch is converting into actual +flat damage?

[civic ocean]

Well it's not actually 240 dps if it runs out right

[surreal hazel]

air frier does improve the actual efficiency of scorch

80 scorch turns into 180 damage

[surreal hazel]

Scorch when you have Air Quality active, due to a quirk of interactions

[civic ocean]

I have no qualms with the claim that PT can reach higher DPS than AF but I don't think the application becomes practical

[surreal hazel]

scorch ticks 6 times a second for low damage, each tick gets bumped to 30

[limpid coral]

Well the ideal case is where max dps from scorch is however much scorch you apply total so that ourple flame strike is actually a flat +50

[bright token]

is it lore accurate or just community term? i was confused

[civic ocean]

Like Hell Splitter can do more DPS than dashing heave under the right circumstances too

[surreal hazel]

community term, Air Quality + Fire, Air Fryer

[past salmon]

I mean I think hell splitter is genuinely a better hammer than heave on than axe anyway

[bright token]

so how does the scorch work exactly?
at default it stacks all scorch you applied to enemy but only ticks at 120 dps rate, right?

[civic ocean]

6 ticks that add up to 80

[past salmon]

Default scorch ticks at 80, orig makes it 120

[limpid coral]

Does furies apply

[surreal hazel]

Pyro Technique increases the damage per tick and the rate the scorch empties

not the tick rate

[civic ocean]

I don't think the first part is true?

[stuck ether]

If orig does it should shouldnt it

[surreal hazel]

scorch still gives you 6 ticks of scorch damage per second, they just hit harder with pyro technique

[bright token]

right, so max ticks per second and total scorch applied to enemy are separate instances?
in that case does it even matter for bosses, what scorch rate improving boons you have?

[civic ocean]

They consume more scorch yes that's the difference

Also yes with Origination it's 120 the point is that if you build around AQ you get to skip that 5 grasp

[limpid coral]

Well sometimes not all of the scorch is actually converted into damage (boss phased, enemy died)

[bright token]

yeah, in my observation furies is also global dmg
so is both aphro boons that give +%dmg

[bright token]

for boss phases it seems to be getting converted. cause the boss enters the new phase based on the white bar of potential dmg

[civic ocean]

Yeah - that's my original point, that AF isn't a "dead" build because this game has a lot of circumstances that can play to different playstyles and strengths

I'll just go back to winstreaking on it at 32-40 or whatever later, maybe refine it a bit

[bright token]

they only hit harder per second, right? pyro technique and air infusion wont affect the total scorch you aplied to the enemy?

[civic ocean]

That's right

One burns uo the scorch faster and the other makes the scorch burn slower for more damage

[surreal hazel]

yeah, the orange number is the scorch waiting to do damage, but that scorch goes through all of the damage modifiers when it actually deals damage

it's also why the orange healthbar is usually a bit wrong

it colours enemy hp bars an amount equivalent to unmodified scorch damage

[bright token]

well in that case both are of no use vs bosses, right? or what?

[surreal hazel]

plenty of use on bosses. they live long enough to actually burn it down on them

[civic ocean]

Well, no, both are of use - one ticks down a lot slower than the other, but the other has more synergy with fast application

[limpid coral]

blades and torches can get scorch stacked up faster than 80 per second

[tall notch]

Tbh if your weapon can't scorch fast enough for pyro you shouldn't play scorch on that weapon

[bright token]

i'm confused. again:
if you have say 120 scorch on a cast, 60 scorch on attack. you go and apply all those flat numbers to the enemy with, say, +100% global dmg, and get 240 and 120 respectively
the boss always enters the new phase with the respect of the white bar, so the tick rate doesn't matter
how pyro technique and air quality improve your (fast) bossfight? do they increase the total flat scorch you do or not?

[surreal hazel]

they both increase your DPS

if you can apply scorch super fast, you're getting capped by how much is allowed to tick down

[bright token]

could really use a formula right now

[civic ocean]

Air quality:

Orange number divided by 80 multiplied by 180

Pyro technique is a lot more complicated

[limpid coral]

I thought bosses just put up the shield and ignored the rest of the scorch remaining

Like if u phase hecate with 300 scorch left the hp bar doesnt just drop by 300

[civic ocean]

I'm gonna need to see the clip like this math that doesn't care about my feelings assumes that you are stacking 160 to 200 scorch per second which is more than I've ever seen

[limpid coral]

If this were real we'd see scylla phase 3 skip

[bright token]

i dont understand what it means

let's say you have a cast that applied 3 times 120 flat scorch to a boss for total of 360, but actually 720 flat scorch, with no pyro technique

let's say you have air quality. how will it improve the total dmg done by this instance of cast to a boss?

[limpid coral]

where does the 720 flat scorch come from?

[stuck ether]

New scylla scorch tech real

[bright token]

from global +100% dmg

[civic ocean]

If you stack enough with AF it persists after the shield and keeps going.

That's a big bonus to AF for me is that it keeps the DPS going regardless of what you're doing, so it's quite strong for players who aren't as mechanically precise (the kind of people who would be reading a guide or trying for their first 32 clear)

[bright token]

origination furies and 20% from somewhere else

[limpid coral]

scorch does a base of 13.3 damage 6 times per second (and reduces the total scorch by about that much)
aq increases it to 30 damage 6 times per second

[stuck ether]

You need to stack enough and clear the invuln phase fast enough

[civic ocean]

720 flat scorch would deal 1620 damage

[civic ocean]

Yeah, rare to be sure

[limpid coral]

Oh btw doesnt skull ospecial hit like, a bit under once per second?

[bright token]

this is max scorch rate tick, right?
but the total 720 dmg from the cast, won't it buffer on the boss until it rans out at this tick rate?

[limpid coral]

what do you mean by max

[civic ocean]

That's the base rate

[limpid coral]

Orange number go down by 13.3/s
Boss take damage at 13.3/s plus bonuses (and min 30 if aq)

[bright token]

ok, max, base, whatever it is. there is a scorch tick rate, and then there is total scorch buffer on the enemy, aren't they separate?

[tall notch]

I don't have a pyro clip on hand because i play freezer burn but blades can apply like 150 (?) scorch with hit 3 of its combo alone

[civic ocean]

My man you not even playin it come ON

[tall notch]

You have the dps math and we know attack rates of the weapons that's stack scorch in the first place

Was the 3rd hit of the combo 3 or 5 attacks?

[civic ocean]

But the DPS math isn't practical like it makes assumptions about the state of the game that are favorable to it

[stuck ether]

3 iirc

[surreal hazel]

5

[tall notch]

I have freezer burn vids on blades. I was nuking it more or less on cd with the cast and was hitting in the thousands. You can look at that if you want

It's the closest thing to evidence I have on hand

[civic ocean]

I have 0 doubt freezer burn is insane but like

There are a lot of benefits to air fryer that make it far from being dead, everyone always goes right to the scorch dps but that's not really the point

[tall notch]

https://youtu.be/t_PGYqhJbp4?si=LN9KBODvPrwNjq12

[past salmon]

ok well I wanted to do a run with the 100% pyro uptime thing @civic ocean but I did it on 50F and never got pyro
Funny run tho ig guys Easily would of had full pyro uptime btw
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246695893361496087/1274478535678885898/20240818072144_1.jpg?ex=66c26621&is=66c114a1&hm=05341296cc05b06bb68531f6f9db4743ecef2759782c495a8a0261b83fd3a79c&

[civic ocean]

Do you have the clip of 160 scorch per second

[past salmon]

no because I never got pyro so there was no point
I'll do like a lowfear maybe later

[civic ocean]

Oh, okay, lol?

I admit @tall notch you're probably right about blades uptime just thinking more about it that would probably be the weapon

I tend to go for it on mel torches and pers skull attacks for the guide

[past salmon]

Mel torches should probs have enough uptime too
I can give that a try probs

[civic ocean]

Yeah I could see torches being able to sustain pyro too

Works really well with Air Fryer though

[bright token]

again guys, sorry if i'm not seeing smth in plain sight

there is scorch tick rate that's base of 13.3 per second
let's assume i have a fast hitting weapon and a lot of scorch sources, more than 6 per second, doesn't really matter
i'm hitting the enemy with all of them, all those flat numbers in the boon tooltips gets applied to the boss hp bar in some color
the boss health bar seems (?) to only be respecting the total potential dmg applied to it when going into next phases or dying
so why does it matter at what rate all those scorch instances tick for bosses in the end?
do pyro technique or air quality actually affect individual tooltips stated in boon descriptions or only their tick rates?

[surreal hazel]

13.3 per second? no

13.3 damage, 6 times a second

[civic ocean]

Would you say that it's good to kill bosses faster

[magic moss]

is this a new one

[past salmon]

yeh

[bright token]

of course i do. hence the question, do those things matter for boss kill rate or not, if the boss's hp bar seems to be treating all those ticking instance of dmg as though they were instant?

[past salmon]

the boss hp bar does not do this

idk where you got this idea that scorch is instantly used up if it phases, because it doesn't

[thin geyser]

is the demeter legendary borken? in the sense it cant be obtained - had all the necessary boons and got the 90 gold pay back (while running vow of forsaking)

[bright token]

well that's what i was asking too, i never dived into it so idk how it's working
when the cast says it's gonna do 135 scorch dmg per second, when in reality there is 80 dmg cap, what does that tooltip mean?

[past salmon]

Forsaking doesn't force duos/legendaries.

You still need to hit the chance

[thin geyser]

damn - thanks

if im hunting for the legendary is it better to have the vow of forsaking off?

[past salmon]

It means it will apply 135 scorch per second.

Having more scorch than the 80dps can use matters with Pyro Technique and Freezer burn

[past salmon]

Probably kinda.
It probably hurts more than it helps most of the time so yeah

[magic moss]

WE GOT OUR FIRST TRANQUIL GAIN CLEAR LMFAO

[civic ocean]

It applies 135 orange number, which, without any modifications, will drain at a 80 per second rate, and deal 80 flat

That is modified by everything flat damage is modified by

[bright token]

so if the cast has total of 395 applied over 3 seconds, this amount will eventually deal dmg over 5 seconds until it expires? and if i keep resummon it over and over, will this 2 second deficit grow to 4, 6, etc?

[stuck ether]

YO?

[magic moss]

YUPPERS

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1274486411315253361/image.png?ex=66c26d77&is=66c11bf7&hm=4d17ed65b4dca21db7a427d2c01c559c585d6fc47bddf7854d82c1e75e787886& tidal ring is the last core boon to not have a single 50F clear

[civic ocean]

Sorta - it doesn't wait for you to finish stacking the orange number before it deals damage

For example if you have only a rare Smolder Ring, you will apply 60 scorch per second but burn away 80 per second so visually you won't see scorch on stuff very much

[bright token]

so if i apply "tooltip" 800 flat scorch per second with my cast and attacks, it only does 80 dps? and if i don't have any modifiers to ticks per second, or freezer burn, all those extra 720 flat dps are wasted? and those orange numbers stored, the boss hp bar doesn't respect them, right, they are only for freezer burn and potential dmg if you leave the boss alone?

also then, what does the aphro + hestia duo do with "endless" scorch?

[stuck ether]

The orange bar is how uou described it and it stays at the amount of scorch on the target for the aphro duo

So 40 scorch will look like 40 hp on the health bar rven with the aphro duo

[civic ocean]

Makes it so the orange number doesn't go down

[bright token]

oh, so i can blow it into infinity but that won't boost my effective dps, only that padded dmg that can be dealt over eternity?

[civic ocean]

Yep, basically your effective DPS with scorch is related to how much you can apply and how much you can modify the ticks

[bright token]

interesting. i approached some things wrong in my build then, thanks guys

does crit affect scorch and potential dmg each tick does?

or is it still capped at your current tick rate

[civic ocean]

Crit I don't actually know

[stuck ether]

Im 90% sure it camt crit but idk its hard to tell

[limpid coral]

yo Pressure Points value

[wise idol]

im pretty sure someone looked at the code during a haelian stream and they came away with the conclusion that it cannot crit

[limpid coral]

unlucky :(

[stuck ether]

I was in a vc with friends while we did a hestia run race and i was talking abiut it critting

[wise idol]

I think it makes sense for it not to since how would that be communicated to the player

in an efficient/satisfactory way

[limpid coral]

I don't think communicating exactly how much damage scorch is dealing is much of a concern
Look at that hp bar you literally can't tell what's orange and what's yellow and what's white sometimes

[wise idol]

I disagree

[limpid coral]

(I do hope that gets changed somehow)

I mean you can see the orange number but unlike direct damage you can't see the actual damage dealt

[civic ocean]

I wonder if it's tied to the fact that the ticks don't display damage?

[glossy rivet]

yoo so fine tuning doesnt just add +1 rank to the aspect

it made pan go from +5 knives to +8

whats another sicknasty aspect with fine tuning?

[stuck ether]

Yes rank 6 has much higher scaling

Than goes from 30 to 45%
Mel blades goes from 100 to 200%

[wise idol]

momus goes from 1.5 to 0.5

mel torches goes from 2.5 to 4

mel skulls goes from 20 to 35

[stuck ether]

Yeah the legendary is really good itd be gotten wayyyy more if his attack or spec were good

[glossy rivet]

wonder if fine tuning is good on charon axe?

maybe dump hephs blast on attack

[wise idol]

its just sad for aspects like moros that use both attack and special that its kinda annoying to get

[shy harbor]

ya fine tuning is honestly rlly good
the rank 6 for each aspect is a huge buff

[turbid zealot]

Infinite scorch damage is so good that encounters arent even difficult

[bright token]

yeah for just clearing very good. i was thinking from the speedrun stand point. boss hp is often the bottleneck

does master conductor mean that a chain lightning can jump multiple times to the same enemy?

[wise idol]

yes

I believe

[bright token]

hm, might be a good dmg bump vs solo targets if you have both chain-lightnings

[stuck ether]

Issue is its bad at the single target fights (bosses) rn bc it strips your lover’s shields

[wise idol]

yeah its honestly not a bad duo its just bugged and kills your lovers shields which is unfortunate

[stuck ether]

Its detrimental rn : (

[wise idol]

its a very fun duo still though

[glossy rivet]

can u crit with heph blast?

[spare kite]

yeah

need global crit tho, so pp or antler

[wild pine]

Bouncing your chain lightning off yourself consumes shields?

[spare kite]

yup

[wild pine]

Only lovers or also winter coat etc.

[spare kite]

ik lovers for a fact no clue about others

I'd assume the one from nitro boost too

and maybe arty's parry

[bright token]

so
rare blitz lvl 19 dmg is 395
statick shock lvl 18 - 100
electric overload - 175

big dmg. but the setups is not trivial of course

[wise idol]

ive done this to the extreme before with like heroic lvl 35 or something and every blitz proc was doing like 900 smthn with another 300 electric overload damage

its awesome

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1274551989585444926/image.png?ex=66c2aa8a&is=66c1590a&hm=7db6957d37a216fdc92a50a8496fa20dddcf60b9d9e44370f5e240ee4223aad0&

[tired fulcrum]

Whats trusty shield/mynt pick rate

[magic moss]

~63% of runs for both

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1274552861010952203/image.png?ex=66c2ab5a&is=66c159da&hm=d53c6f427c09f8c1899d38defa21116caa78d21b76f685ad23698caedfcc8e6a&

[tired fulcrum]

Lmao

[magic moss]

fun stats with mr 50F

(i havent touched 50F in like 3 weeks)

[stuck ether]

you dont touch 50f but you the goat for the sheet

[civic ocean]

Are there any 50f patch 4 clears that don't have any of the top 5

[magic moss]

probably

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11fvkTPUg1CbBcTxLSbiAarCgUq6kFmXP/view?usp=sharing this one for example

the top10 is across every aspect so more niche boons like lucid gain are 100% picked for charon but there isnt enough charon runs to make it to top 10 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1274554948616589323/image.png?ex=66c2ad4b&is=66c15bcb&hm=e52b1c86074cc09aa19313f9fdaf1c46bf28495b1b0076b5b4a4636d96b670c8&

[civic ocean]

Oh the core list didnt have mynt condition

Right right right

[magic moss]

meanwhile foolish single handedly boosted hearth gain to top 10 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1274555082825924628/image.png?ex=66c2ad6b&is=66c15beb&hm=6a38757aab75876a1f8ed7dd6d995b0b1e47901d715cc74d923e13b7da1bbb7a&

[civic ocean]

No tranquil Charons? I guess you can't get Torrential Downpour anymore so no need

Born Gain is broken with Mirrored Thrasher right

[magic moss]

no idea, but you go hearth gain with mirrored

idk if you say broken as in bugged or broken as in op

[civic ocean]

Bugged

[magic moss]

oh idk

[civic ocean]

Like it doesnt prime

I'll have to find out

[limpid coral]

(it will stop working if you have too little max mana for born gain to go off)

[stuck ether]

iirc it doesnt prime for any of the non-omega stuff

so ex chop, mirrored, the one skull one i think

[limpid coral]

I think born gain works normally with possessed

[civic ocean]

But like if I have 20 of 40 available and I have Mirrored thrasher it never primes?

[limpid coral]

Which makes sense it says use the oattack

[limpid coral]

Ya u go down to 0 or whatever and stay there and mirrored just works

[civic ocean]

Time to pull the 55 slot machine some more

[limpid coral]

naur

[civic ocean]

Transcendent Strike + Mirrored Thrasher + Born Gain EZ

It's only like what a less than 1% chance? Easy

[limpid coral]

Do be careful with the chaos dash curse cause that will trigger born gain and if you're not careful will prime out

[civic ocean]

We egging

What are the actual odds - you gotta hit strike embryo floor one then two boons and a hammer for your first 3 major finds and it has to be Hera, has to be born gain, has to be mirrored thrasher

[past salmon]

Idk have you figured out that egg start is delusional yet 😭

[civic ocean]

Egg start has been most successful so far tbh

[past salmon]

Idk I feel like you will just get Oceanus off of Hera start tho
Maybe I'll try some runs for like 10 minutes today before I inevitably burn out again

[tall notch]

vow of abandoment was a mistake
I don't know how can y'all play it

[torpid crane]

why would you do that to yourself

[tall notch]

I would never. Ask East and Foolish why they do it

[torpid crane]

oh I thought from your message, you tried out vow of abandon and hated it lol

[tall notch]

The furthest I got with abandon was Erebus midboss

[stuck ether]

Dont forget boated (he did it bc we made him)

Ive tried abandon (to reset a bad seed in c1)

[tall notch]

I didn't forget it, I simply knew he did it purely because his cruel viewers forced him to

[torpid crane]

one day SGG will unintentionally create a patch where eos is unintentionally broken and you can clear abandon ez

[stuck ether]

Were not cruel its funny

[civic ocean]

Idk I find the challenge fun

It's not like a "I'm going to win this" thing so much as I enjoy pushing the game to its limit as much as I can

[tame steppe]

could I get that sheet link? 90% sure its hera hestia demeter core tho

[surreal hazel]

Is charon axe about the cast or flourish? Feels like you can go hard on either successfully

[magic moss]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit

[bright token]

going well on sub9 pace at 32f
4 skull spam rooms in tart with no freeze on the ring or mint condition with antler on

i hate unavoidable dmg with a passion

[small lance]

i love this combo https://puu.sh/KdbbD/d0ec7c23c7.png

[velvet epoch]

Anybody have suggestions for a critical build? I'm thinking of the Arcana that increases damage to those within your cast, some Artemis boons (though who can guarantee that?), Aphrodite boons to inflict Weak, and some Poseidon boons to keep things 1v1 with monsters thanks to the Splash. Weapons being the daggers?

Would love thoughts. Trying to switch things up.

[uneven palm]

If you like doing crits all the time look at Artemis blades. Get a big percentage on attack, get magic regeneration sorted, then parry and spam omega attacks. Enjoy insta-phasing bosses if you get Explosive Ambush

[velvet epoch]

Who is Explosive Ambush from?

[wild swan]

It's one of the Hammers for the Blades

[sage flame]

you could really try to use the death card for more crit chance but it's kinda clunky, and unfortunately you can only get one arty boon per run cause she only shows up once

[wise idol]

can concave stone hit arty boons?

[past salmon]

Wow guys wouldn't it be really cool if someone just cleared max fear out of nowhere that would be kinda wild

[wise idol]

That would be sick ngl

[fair narwhal]

https://youtu.be/Q8Lv8iY_1Eg

55 fear yay

[past salmon]

wow no way thats crazy

[wise idol]

dude right as we were talking about it

thats crazy

[spare kite]

Damn

[sage flame]

WHOOOOO GREAT JOB

[reef tiger]

fr blud cooked??

[fair narwhal]

yes i believe i was cooking

[reef tiger]

now u gotta do 55 surface 😈

[wise idol]

true

[reef tiger]

only near half thru the video and the amount of clutches is crazy

[civic ocean]

Yeah it's such a good run

[magic moss]

boated the goated frfr

[reef tiger]

peak run

[pseudo sequoia]

tbf boat works as an acronym if you replace greatest with best so in honour of 55 fear we gotta replace goated with boated

huge congrats though! i'm still working on 50 so that's extremely impressive

[fair narwhal]

Thanks 50 is very hard good luck!

[tiny oasis]

updated the website with around 40 new builds

[past salmon]

#h2-feedback message

@torpid crane what is this boatman slander.

Also yeah just delete tempus from P2.2 and Chronos is nearly perfect imo

[torpid crane]

I love boatman

[magic moss]

i get the appeal of tempus's in p2.2 design wise but i think there is just too many and they spawn way too quickly

[torpid crane]

no slander

[magic moss]

if they spawned every other hour so 6 total and spawn rate is halved i think the fight is much better

[past salmon]

Tempus in P2.2 are cool thematically unfortunately as an enemy Tempus are just awfully designed

[magic moss]

its an extra layer of threat without making the fight feel like bullet hell immediately and feel unfair

[magic moss]

yeah :(

which is sad as hell since i really like tempus's as an enemy design wise and death effect wise

[torpid crane]

I think they ought to just copy and paste the hades fight

phase 1 is minions and phase 2 is more moves

[past salmon]

I don't know why people like Hades fight so much it's bland imo

I think Chronos is way better apart from tempus

Also P2.1 should have the triple attacks it's weird that he reverts

[magic moss]

the main issue with chronos p2.2 is that theres just simply too much

from massive aoe attacks with clock hands and that clockwide aoe arrow thing, tempuses, chronos doing triple attacks and dashing, the closing circles, the OHK

it feels so rng dependent on getting a good attack cycle to clear, else the fight is just infinitely harder than p2.1

especially since an early OHK means all the tempuses spawn in and the fight is just impossible from there

[past salmon]

Just IFrame the OHKO imo imo

[magic moss]

then the design comes into question where you would have to essentially "cheese" the OHK mechanic to make the fight still reasonable

[past salmon]

Cheese is a funny word in this situation

[magic moss]

its why i put it in quotes

[torpid crane]

Chronos is the better fight, but I think Hades handles his phases better and isn’t goofy minion spam

[magic moss]

its not really cheesing since its a mechanic of the game, but its still technically bypassing the entire mechanic of the ohk in a technically unintended way

[torpid crane]

I’d prefer it if progressed like his fight rather than how it is, but I do agree in comparison his fight is a bit bland

[past salmon]

I think Hades P1 minions are worse than Chronos P1 minions

I just think Tempus is the root of all problems

[torpid crane]

I think that’s his only problem right now

Aside from the clock handles move being annoying as all hell

[past salmon]

Just play axe and delete them frfr

[torpid crane]

Unironically the answer to a lot of the game’s funny moves

[past salmon]

The way you know you are getting better at the game is realising how strong axe block is

[torpid crane]

Blocking with the axe is so fun

It just cheeses

[past salmon]

#h2-feedback message

Man I haven't looked at feedback for ages there is always some gems.

I agree we should buff trusty shield it's a little too weak imo imo

[torpid crane]

Someone asked for an antler buff

There was a piece of feedback where someone said the elements should give you some sort of buff the more you stack with earth element giving you shields

The days of trusty are in the past when I can shovel some seeds for a 50/50 chance of perma armor

[civic ocean]

The reason it doesn't claim way more runs is that I'd imagine most players playing 32+ just use the Pin for 10 secs invuln to kill him

I was considering feedbacking an exchange where Abandon leaves you with the first row of your Arcana still accessible, and in return Engraved Pin only works for one biome. Not sure if that's too player-favoured or not though. Fun to think about

Included in there would be swift runner changing spots with wayward son as well

[past salmon]

that seems a little goofy
I still think Abandon should just set ur grasp to 0 (meaning its a judgement run... and also queen ig lmao)

[civic ocean]

That exchange also works

But like Engraved Pin is super OP that seems unquestionably true

[past salmon]

pin could defs use a nerf

[civic ocean]

Once ever seems too harsh tho

[past salmon]

they could honestly just nerf the time to like 6-8 seconds

[civic ocean]

True, I like only one biome but that could also work

[past salmon]

one biome isn't a huge nerf I think idk
In most runs it just means u run something else in fields, pin is still most impactful in tart

[onyx ibex]

probably already known but I just started EA and on my 3rd or fourth run (first run with moonlight axe) made it to the 4th area with this dopamine filled build:

moonlight axe
Giga Cleaver
(optional 2nd hammer) Empowering Guard
heaven flourish (zeus special)
lucid gain (apollo cast)
Heart Breaker
Sunny Disposition (apollo aphro duo)
rest are optional but I also had
Super Nova

was not expecting to make it to 4th area on 4th run

[civic ocean]

Yeah it would change fields a bit

[magic moss]

did bro just discover the charon build on accident

[past salmon]

nice! yeah this build is actually somewhat similar to the Meta build for anyfear speedruns (one big difference that is kinda a spoiler)
Also beware as this channel will be filled with spoilers

[onyx ibex]

ye I just wanted to drop that

[magic moss]

thats actually wild thats some good thinking

[onyx ibex]

omg didn't mean to discover the meta lol but it felt great!
just set a cast and spammed special

It started with getting the first hammer and then thought apollo cast would work perfectly with it, then I saw zeus and went "this with his special would be like old merciful end", then accidentally built towards aphro apollo duo

(ok I am off again to avoid spoilers, but wanted to share that in the super slim chance someone else hadn't already discovered its awesomeness)

[magic moss]

We have now hit 150 unique clears in patch 4 alone, and 263 clears total at 50 fear. We are at 198 Unique Clears in total across all patches.

[echo island]

how do u unlock weapon aspects in the game? i’ve been trying to find out how if their an incarnation or smth but i’m not 100% sure

[faint grotto]

i believe you need to unlock all of the weapons and then do an incantation to unlock aspects? they might also unlock immediately after you unlock all of the weapons i cant remember

[echo island]

bare minimum is all i need tysm 🙏 😭

[torpid crane]

we only need 1 more until we get 151. the number of pokemon in generation 1

[past salmon]

I just died in a Medea 50F that was in Oceanus final at 4:09 because I got hit with 3 rooms in a row of spindles
I hate it here

[turbid zealot]

Ngl I feel like chronos summoning minions is the worst part of his fight

[tough pasture]

Just stopping by in the Discord after boated's max fear clear popped up on my YouTube recommendations.

How goes it friends?

[glossy rivet]

does seismic hammer work with charon cast?

also geyser spout for that matter

[uneven palm]

I haven’t tested lately but Spout was bugged with Charon: no increased size or damage from the aspect.

I don’t see any reason Seismic Hammer wouldn’t work

[glossy rivet]

as in popping a cast with charon counts for triggering seismic hammer right?

dont need to do manual omega like geyser spout?

[pseudo sequoia]

charon cast triggers all omega cast boons from what i've played (prominence flare, increased super nova size, local climate bonus damage) so it should work? i've not tested it myself though

[modest dagger]

oh yeah I did that exact thing earlier today and i'm pretty sure it works

[glossy rivet]

nice

[modest dagger]

I also had heph blast on special tho so it was kinda hard to tell

but I think it worked

[tough pasture]

Thanks for the update.

[pseudo sequoia]

hestia offers worst burnt offering, asked to leave god pool
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1274034492931178518/1275119500202737749/image.png?ex=66c4bb13&is=66c36993&hm=5915d72bfefd54e45c9aefaa0cbc9f147013b9ada8bc55fe9f7480d00dc27b7d&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=807&height=127

[shy harbor]

lol thats horrifying
just imagine concaves tone picking it too

[pseudo sequoia]

i don't take concave stone most of the time but i DID take vow of forsaking that run so i definitely could've been forced into it lol

[velvet epoch]

May I please get some tips on defeating Eris with the Eos torches?

It's for the Trial of Heartache.

[ember gale]

Bait her around the two obstacles, don't get them destroyed, your special can pass through them

[elfin ivy]

About the Fleece: does its dmg buff activate if you've already met the requirements upon equipping or do you gotta equip it before hitting the dmg quota?
I've been doing the former for a while now and now I'm wondering if I've been getting scammed by any chance

[civic ocean]

it keeps track of the damage before you equip it

It just can feel a bit lackluster

[elfin ivy]

Yeah I figured since no-one even acknowledges its existence lmao

It's a bit of a common theme with every dmg buff keepsake tbh. I only like the Bell because it just fits the chaos of Eris so perfectly, but they just can't get them right for some reason

[civic ocean]

Well, It just so happens that the defensive relics are pretty good, Pin in particular

[elfin ivy]

Bones go kinda hard too

[uneven palm]

It works if you cross the damage threshold after equipping, but yeah some additive damage on only omegas can be hard to notice if you already have some +% on ‘em.

[split igloo]

Sorry, Amir must have detected me calling her "Aunt Bestia" too many times and now he's hurting other people for it.

[pseudo sequoia]

you summoned the built in hestia nerf failsafe how could you 😭

[surreal hazel]

Interesting freezer burn trick you can do if you have smolder ring

When you use any time slow effects, scorch's tickrate slows down, but casts do not. Meaning that smolder ring keeps adding scorch whike it barely ticks down

So you can use it while charging up a freeze move if you have the sorceress

[tired fulcrum]

Its weird how they fixed zeus cast being slowed by time slow but not scorch tick damage

[magic moss]

Sheet has been updated, Congrats to @worthy epoch for getting 15/15!

ok so Mynt sent me more clears and I gotta say https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G0ZN2hvNfS58GGLAFLrsV9iO_kziPw3s/view?usp=sharing this may be the most impressive clear I've ever seen

this was in patch 2 btw so no suffering nerfs and revenant changes

[stuck ether]

AND ITS SUB 20?????

[magic moss]

like?????????????????????????/

actually a god gamer

[magic moss]

btw we are now at 199 unique clears

[acoustic remnant]

heya, havent played since patch 2 and thought id get back into the game. whats meta on axe/blades now?

[glossy rivet]

is mell skull scuffed without the salvo or +2 skulls

salvo makes all the shells fire at max damage right? does the damage just look at the ammo counter?

[past salmon]

Mel skull is bugged to not work properly with salvo
Or atleast it was maybe it was fixed

[glass tapir]

Mel skull with hammers that aren't Possessed Array? Couldn't be me

[glossy rivet]

how does possessed array work with mel skull

skull feels so bad to use damn

[acoustic remnant]

I had a nice run w blades + hitch

[glossy rivet]

whats a good build for phoenix skin? apollo/hestia

[acoustic remnant]

idk man I haven’t played in months

ping me if any of y’all use pan blades/than axe tho I need builds

[worthy epoch]

than axe is sworn strike and arctic or storm ring

at low fear anything kind of works for pan using your special to melt, at high fear it needs to be used as a budget mel knives

[acoustic remnant]

mel works better at high fear? Im just starting out with fear tbh

[tall notch]

Pan blades need too much setup to get them going on high fear

That's not ideal when the timer is pretty unforgiving and onion will sometimes make you not see a boon in Oceanus

[uneven palm]

Keep in mind they’re talking, like, 45+ fear. For like 32 Pan’s fine

[acoustic remnant]

I’ll probs get there eventually, think my highest in H1 was 32

[past salmon]

tbh pan can run special until 48
Onion is the thing that murders it

[acoustic remnant]

it’ll be a looong time before I reach 48 LMAO

Im just doing it for nightmare so far

idt id ever be able to clear 45+

[uneven palm]

The current meta pan build is Wave Flourish and get good hammers (Spiral, Sudden, Hook, maybe Dancing). I have a bunch of videos of, uh, kookier Pan builds if you’re interested

[acoustic remnant]

sure hmu im still on low ish heat bc I’m farming nightmare

[uneven palm]

Sure I think they’re all 32 Fear so they’re fine for less than that. Here’s Night + Death Arcana with Aphro special https://youtu.be/PEhgRLt7JBE?si=wy0R88DjrtJEAM5y

Freezer Burn https://youtu.be/UUXDf6usVww?si=Ktxc4PG0NeNKItEW

[acoustic remnant]

I wanna hit 32 someday and I’ll be satisfied

[uneven palm]

Flick Knives and Zeus https://youtu.be/8GxUJFSMCt8?si=SEgt91hInDkiLImV

[acoustic remnant]

I’ll give it a lookie in a bit

[worthy epoch]

as of right now yes mel blades are SIGNIFICANTLY better than pan above 32 fear imo, the special for knives takes too long to charge thus pan ends up having essentially no aspect

32 below pan is fantastic though, basically is great until the speed you play at becomes a bigger issue and erebus gets harder

[tall notch]

For me, Pan still felt solid at 40f. But i wouldn't play it above that

[worthy epoch]

exactly its just when the fear hits a certain point its really unfun to play as its aspect and why pick it over mel atp

[civic ocean]

Yeah generally speaking the weapon aspects that favour not using Omega moves are preferable the higher fear you go, with some notable exceptions like Charon

[magic moss]

and staff

[desert sail]

I can't make the Skull work. ELI5 how to use it pls? What gods, what playstyle etc

[magic moss]

complete overkill but I have a sheet of 50 fear clears that have victory screens for builds and vods if you would like?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit

[desert sail]

Amazing thank you

[topaz lotus]

You'll note only the torches have fewer 50+ clears than the skull, the skull is pretty trash actually. I'm a mid tier player - plenty of clears up to 40 heat in H1, bunch of clears in the mid-20s here, haven't really tried for 32 fear yet - and the skulls are the hardest to get anywhere close to correct. I'm mid tier because I'm old and my reflexes suck, my building everything optimally all the time is the only reason I can do anything. The optimal way to build the skulls is to pick something else.

Two patches ago mel skull with zeus or hera on attack and the extra shells hammer was EZPZ clear up to 20 fear, now it is not.

[pseudo sequoia]

sorry if this isn't the best place to ask but could i get my clear added? i finished 50 on thanatos earlier: #h2-victory-boasting message

[magic moss]

I have it on record, will add once i get home

dw

[magic moss]

also dw feel free to ping me whenever and where ever

@pseudo sequoia Would “SilverVortex” be fine as the name on the sheet?

[pseudo sequoia]

yea that name's fine, thank you!!

[uneven palm]

Base skull take Hera or Apollo or Aphrodite attack. Best hammers are Bolstered and Possessed. Use the Huntress arcana and Vow of Panic for an instant damage boost. Stay close to baddies and bonk with attacks so you don’t miss and have to chase your skulls all over the place.

Medea is race up, attack then special through baddies, repeat. Like with Mel skulls use Huntress and Vow of Panic. Zeus special and whatever percentage attack is the meta build.

Persephone use Night arcana. Omega cast, it’ll build the gauge, Omega special to clear the room. Zeus cast and Hera special are good, Twisting Crash is the best hammer.

[glossy rivet]

is there a weapon thats good with heph attack or special

gonna try doing a heroic heph attack/special and pom it to olympus

[cursive oyster]

heph blasts aren’t super amazing to build around as your main damage but it should work on pretty much any weapon at lower fear, best imo are some putting it on medea special and building it parallel to your attack or picking it up for funsies on mel/than axe special so you can occasionally do a bit of damage while blocking

[static thicket]

skull is very good

[torpid crane]

this game loves giving me the most absurd erebus set ups known to man just to cuck me with 0 skips and dying to timer

[bright token]

both are true. skull is good because of massive dmg and decent aoe, but feels bad to use (the base one, not medea). it gets stuck in places you can't retrive it from, it stays on the ground for eternity, the pickup radius is small, the hitbox is small too, and paired with the low projectile speed it forces you to play it at a very close range

mel skulls is definitely my worst experience among all weapons by a good margin

[stuck ether]

Mel skulls feels good compared to circe staff. Busted even

[cursive oyster]

mel skulls are good just get bolstered array c2

[torpid crane]

you think circe is bad??

[bright token]

i forgot what the hammer called that gives the skulls back. that one was essential for me to feel ok using the weapon.
circe staff, same as mel staff, might as well not have aspects at all. all staffs are carried by good hammer selection and good baseline attack animation. momus can be played with omegas if you had no luck with hammers
staff's special was nerfed into the ground cause of patch 1 momus and never recovered since

[torpid crane]

fetching array?

[bright token]

yeah

[sacred sandal]

Momus with the "double attack but use 5mana" hammer is so good if you can get demeter and zeus build going in a run. Freeze things and then spam all your casts then sit back and pop open a cold one. i just had the fastest chronos kill time and he was barely even on my screen lmao.

The hailstorm duo boon isnt necessary but sure helps

[glossy rivet]

But what does the mirrored thrasher do with the dem zeus combo tho

[sacred sandal]

for the build it's the best hammer option

[red perch]

What are some good gods to pair with the Mel skulls?

[magic moss]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit look here for the current “meta”

[uneven palm]

Big percentage on attack so Apollo Aphro or Hera are great. Heph and Zeus are good supplemental damage on special if you work those in.

[red perch]

Cool, I was thinking maybe Hera, so that works for me ✊

[magic moss]

sheet has been updated

[glossy rivet]

does prominence flare work with momus omega cast?

also what is the best gain for mirror thrasher? hestia?

[magic moss]

idk for momus and yes mirrored thrasher hestia is best

[cursive oyster]

it does not

[glossy rivet]

zamm
I got fine tuning momus last run instead

[uneven palm]

The first omega cast turret gets Prominence, yah? Just not the repeats (I think)

[shy harbor]

ya a lot of the cast boons only do anything on the first

[glossy rivet]

What kind of omega should i spam anyway with momus since the recent omega overrides the last momus ball

Is moon omega cast momus good

[uneven palm]

Cycle through them. Try Death and Night arcana maybe

[cursive oyster]

or just get geyser spout and spam that

[uneven palm]

Moon is good, there’s a lot of near-broken hex upgrades

[glossy rivet]

Man I'm going back to charon axe

[uneven palm]

You can have all three omegas going at once with Momus, it’s not replacing them if you do a different move. Like you can have omega attack special cast all popping off

[shy harbor]

^
i usually pop down the cast where enemies are spawning
then do special or attack at other ones
and the best part is if u have a cast that does something like scorch u can throw it down without ending the omega cast

[glossy rivet]

The omega balls dont replace each other when its with diff types of moves?

Didnt notice that last time ig

[uneven palm]

Yeah, get all 3 going on a boss you’ll shred em

[shy harbor]

no u can have all 3 going its very nice
the first thing u do in hecate is all three of them and by the time they are done phase is over

(that is guranteed for 0 fear cant say it works as well at higher fears)

if u have a thrasher hammer as well it means u can still do a lot of damage just with your attack while your omegas are already shredding

[glossy rivet]

Hestia attack is good w mirror thrasher right?

Or is pos atk still better

I had a 155% apollo atk but even with mirror thrasher it still feels weak so i guess base power of staff attack is very weak

[magic moss]

are we talking for low fear or speedrunning or high fear

[shy harbor]

base attack of staff is quite low ya so a 40 from poseidon is more than double i think

[acoustic remnant]

im losing to chronos way more than I think I should be ugh

[shy harbor]

what part of the fight are u having the most trouble with (sometimes it helps to be using omegas to see the wind ups since they are all different)

[acoustic remnant]

yea that I can’t tell which omega he’s gonna use, usually I position myself for the curved slash then he uses a straight strike instead

[shy harbor]

so for the straight slash he gets into a bit of a naruto run pose then pushes forward
cant remember exactly what the slash looks like

[tacit rain]

I recommend dashing to the side and forward towards him to avoid either

[shy harbor]

ya depending on the weapon u can dash through him or out of his range (depending on weapon is more depening on where you are in regards to him)

[acoustic remnant]

rn my weapon of choice is pans blades

[shy harbor]

a lot of that takes time and a bit of practice

pan blades are imo a tough weapon to use
mel blades u get extra backstab artemis u get parry and riposte

[tacit rain]

My personal choice of weapon is the flames and they keep you at a pretty good distance aswell

[acoustic remnant]

tbh I have no trouble w any other region, pan blades just melt through

it’s kinda similar to chiron bow in h1 which I enjoyed

I also rly like than axe tho im better at blades by far

[shy harbor]

fair enough
(im just a hater on pan blades lol)
ya with them you will likely be pretty close range to set up casts so you can try to dash behind him
if u have a long range cast u can probably stay out of range a bit

[acoustic remnant]

yea I usually do that

tbh I think my mistake last run was not swapping out to luckiest tooth

I’ll probs do another run with evil eye tho

[shy harbor]

luckier tooth is very helpful when u just need that last bit of help
i liked taking it into chronos before i got used to him

[acoustic remnant]

I made it to phase 2 and he was at 30% when I died

[tacit rain]

I recommend knuckle bones for Chronos. The biggest problem with his fight is if you draw it out so making it shorter is great

[acoustic remnant]

Luckiest tooth may have saved me, unfort I forgot to swap

[shy harbor]

knuckle bones reduces damage a bit right?
if so its not a bad call if u have a lot of hp

[acoustic remnant]

I had the Hephaestus boon that reduces dmg taken

[shy harbor]

there are a lot of rlly good keepsakes tbh

[acoustic remnant]

I like evil eye

[tacit rain]

it makes you take 15% less damage from bosses and makes the boss lose max hp if its the first one you bring the bones to in that run

[acoustic remnant]

The only fights I struggle with are chronos and occasionally hecate

[tacit rain]

5%-10%-15% depending on rarity

[acoustic remnant]

I’ve lost dd to her before

[shy harbor]

what part of hecate is messing with u?

[acoustic remnant]

the thing where she triples herself and spams semicircles of fire

generally the bullet hell esque aspects of her fight

I think I’m alright w her I’ve lost dd in runs where I wasn’t too careful

[shy harbor]

oh that one is a bit annoying
u can get beside one of them and just keep to her side since she cant turn too fast

[acoustic remnant]

cerb and scylla are no issue

[shy harbor]

ya scylla is honestly a bit too easy imo

[acoustic remnant]

yeah I lost 0hp in my last fight against her

[shy harbor]

the guitarist loves to jump in the water immediately just trvializing the fight if u have decent dps

[acoustic remnant]

meanwhile hecate brought me down to 1 hp

[shy harbor]

the bullet hell tracks u atleast so u can just kinda be in a corner and walk in a circle around her to make that easier

[acoustic remnant]

I misdirected a wolf howl and took dmg in the bullet hell lol

[shy harbor]

ah thats a tough one lol

[acoustic remnant]

might do a run again today

[past salmon]

It's funny cuz I agree but sirens is actually (imo) the hardest fight in the game at max fear

[shy harbor]

really i find that interesting
probably because u dont have the slow?
cuz the strat is legit just run forward do aoe to drummer and scylla and oops fights over at 0 fear

[acoustic remnant]

rlly?

mynt said hecate/erebus is the hardest part after chronos tho idt he’s played in a long time

how do y’all do high fears lmao im struggling w chronos at 10

[shy harbor]

u can kinda do just a bit of pushing fear wise at a time and slowly work up
or jump in the deep end until it works (theres also needing to do actual builds at high fear)

[acoustic remnant]

what’s good on torch btw

probs gonna try Mel torch since I haven’t upgraded the rest

[past salmon]

Yeah
Damage is a lot lower so the fight goes for longer, and your health is usually low enough so a single hit can take you out. Sirens can have a lot of hitboxes out at once and the fight tends to get more and more complicated the longer it goes, and it can go for a while with the low damage of 55.

It's a lot easier on anything below since you normally just burst them down with safety from lovers

[fair narwhal]

Yeah sirens at 55 is the most insane fight in the game by a mile

Very fun very scary

[acoustic remnant]

damn

[past salmon]

The only thing scarier than Sirens is probs Chronos P2.2 but the ideal is to just have Pin at that point so you can monkey brain button mash on him

[acoustic remnant]

I beat chronos on Mel torches for the first time

Idt I used a single dd this run

trying than axe next

[cursive oyster]

mel torch typically ignores the aspect to build into the omega attack, start born gain and look for a %based attack (hera is probably best). from there best hammers are clean candle leaden spark and sustained spark. a fun but probably not optimal build i like to play with at low fear is building up scorch on the attack by starting hestia attack, then scaling with stuff like pyro technique, getting origination online, and looking for aphrodite and demeter for their duos

playing the aspect is typically more of a meme but it works on low fear, start aphrodite special, get born gain, look for apollo on like attack and dash, heartthrobs and sunny disposition, apollo legendary, best hammers for that are clean helix, triple helix, and whirling helix

[acoustic remnant]

I think I did that actually wrt hera attack

I beat chronos that run too

[cursive oyster]

cool!

sorry for the wall of text i didn’t realize you already did a run

[acoustic remnant]

I think I’m still not accustomed to playing vs chronos bc I’ve managed to consistently reach him with all stacks of deaths defiance from 0 to 12 fear

but I die to him more often than not

and I always die in phase 2 after getting him to around 40% or 30% lol

[cursive oyster]

if you’re not already and you don’t struggle in tartarus taking deep dissent from dad really helps in this phase

[acoustic remnant]

is deep dissent the one reducing the foes he summons?

[cursive oyster]

yeah

[acoustic remnant]

yea I run it when I get it

funny enough the time I beat him on torch idt I had it

[cursive oyster]

interestingly enough you can roll dad’s boons to get it so on low fear where you can take dad without worrying about timer i like to conserve at least one roll

[spare kite]

You can use moros's keepsake and use the 10 seconds to ionga boonga him during p2.2

[acoustic remnant]

I usually use up 1 dd before phase 2

[cursive oyster]

i would do that if i didnt proc it in phase 1 every time like a dumbass

[spare kite]

If you lose it at the end of p1 it can still be used fwiw

[cursive oyster]

this is false

[spare kite]

I thought they changed it so p1 counted as safe?

[acoustic remnant]

can images be attached here

[spare kite]

Send in dms/another server > right click and copy img link

[acoustic remnant]

#h2-victory-boasting message

[spare kite]

Or use imgur/whatever other site there is

[cursive oyster]

finishing phase one does conserve the death defiance but pin cannot be used again in p2

[spare kite]

Ohhh, my bad

[acoustic remnant]

thats my second clear ever i think but whats funny is i can consistently reach him but i rarely beat him

i was fairly decent at H1 i think other bosses/enemies dont take too long to get used to whereas i stil cant tell chronos's attack patterns and stuff

[cursive oyster]

chronos is an insane difficulty spike

[acoustic remnant]

yea i dont have his patterns memorized either

[spare kite]

Non fury grandpa also has those weird delays between tells/the actual attack

[acoustic remnant]

no idea how i cleared this run w no DD

oh i had the hades boon that restores hp

i wouldve survived the 179 he dealt either way

[cursive oyster]

that boon is really funny with scars 3
“restore hp equal to 0% of damage dealt, up to a limit of 100 this night”

[acoustic remnant]

is scars basically lasting consequences

[cursive oyster]

yeah

[limpid coral]

If there was Mark of the Bloom would u click it

[acoustic remnant]

i hated running that on h1 initially but at 32 it was p easy

[past salmon]

I love scars it's my favourite Vow low-key
Apart from Fury ig

[cursive oyster]

the issue with it here over h1 is that pin is much less reliable than stubborn defiance but ig i have to just play better

[acoustic remnant]

ah yea

[cursive oyster]

i think scars 2 is pretty free though

[limpid coral]

All boons (current and future) get a buff (rarity? level? idk) but you cannot heal

[past salmon]

The Strat is to just get Mint Condition and then run pin with it and encounters become unloseable very cool

[acoustic remnant]

i had a 17s mynt condition the last run i lost to chronos

[cursive oyster]

ah mb mb i just need to get luckier

[past salmon]

Hitting one boon bro 😭

Just put on heph keepsake oceanus

[acoustic remnant]

i usually take heph at fields

[cursive oyster]

if I don’t have heph by oceanus i don’t have enough health to run anything other than pin

[acoustic remnant]

what heat do u play on

[cursive oyster]

50

[past salmon]

You might want to improve your Erebus then

[limpid coral]

If u are losing that much hp in erebus then idk

[acoustic remnant]

how do yall do it at 50 oml

[cursive oyster]

definitely a skill issue but yknow

[past salmon]

Idk 50 isn't that bad once you know strats

[limpid coral]

Not playing axe issues

[cursive oyster]

i play axe

[acoustic remnant]

my skill issue rn is killing chronos

[limpid coral]

Oh

[acoustic remnant]

i just dont know his patterns yet ig ill get there

[cursive oyster]

the issue is mel axe is so slow and im used to the than axe gameplay of mash attack until everything is dead

[acoustic remnant]

than axe is rly nice

[past salmon]

Play than axe then

[cursive oyster]

i may be the worst 50f player out there

[acoustic remnant]

being a 50f player is already a flex lol

[cursive oyster]

already cleared with it

[limpid coral]

We all were at one point

[past salmon]

Oh fair enough

[limpid coral]

Use special to break rebuke sometimes it hits for 15x2

At least before u get sworn strike

[cursive oyster]

i do (occasionally)

[acoustic remnant]

how do u avoid getting hit by the erebus enemy that runs and screeches at u

[limpid coral]

cast and walk in the other direction

[cursive oyster]

drop cast and leave

[past salmon]

Axe can just invalidate them

Common theme with axe actually

[cursive oyster]

yeah axe is a very well balanced weapon

[acoustic remnant]

i tried high heat once that thing killed me

[past salmon]

Oh shoot I didn't end up doing my Medea 50F of the day

Do I bother getting up for that

[acoustic remnant]

oh my god

[limpid coral]

good sleep > medea

[bright token]

i think vs armored screamers you need to time the block very well, otherwise you'll get hit by the end of cream animation

[acoustic remnant]

u do one every day???

[past salmon]

Medea > Everything though

[cursive oyster]

you don’t see getting normal amounts of sleep clearing 50f

[bright token]

most fun are armored screamers vs a naked blades build
erebus currently is the 50f endgame

[past salmon]

Eh most days anyway

I'm lazy

[limpid coral]

i think u need the scream hitbox to be pointing at u when it hits the block for it to actually delete the thing

so if it turns into u u are sad

[past salmon]

It's not a timing thing it's a positioning thing

If you know how to position the block correctly it just deleted their attack it's cool

[bright token]

i sometimes get the scream reappear at the end on the animation, not sure what causes it

[past salmon]

Huh never had that weird

[limpid coral]

I have no idea lol f10?

[cursive oyster]

i wish axe block deleted sop spindle attacks

[acoustic remnant]

i wish we could destroy projectiles again

[limpid coral]

I wish axe deleted spindle

[past salmon]

I wish spindle deleted

[cursive oyster]

i want to be able to point at any bad thing and right click to make it go away

[acoustic remnant]

whats spindle

[limpid coral]

`debugkill

[cursive oyster]

spinny guy in oceanus

[acoustic remnant]

ah

[limpid coral]

spin needle

[cursive oyster]

they do 55 damage if you walk into them

[past salmon]

Spindles are also in Erebus

[acoustic remnant]

i usually get dem cast by oceanus to deal w it

[cursive oyster]

vow of wandering :(

[acoustic remnant]

oh yea i run that one first

[past salmon]

No like
Spindles r in erebus

[acoustic remnant]

wandering is p easy in low heat

[cursive oyster]

yeah but those guys are less cancerous

[acoustic remnant]

i think screamer is worse

[cursive oyster]

hippo

[limpid coral]

They do literally 2 damage bruh

[acoustic remnant]

yea but if ur trying to not get hit screamer is worse

[past salmon]

Sorry you aren't allowed to complain about enemies if you play Axe that weapon is dishonest 😔

[cursive oyster]

screamers at the very least are one of three erebus enemies with actual enemy weights

[bright token]

armored small spindles in erebus are also horrible cause the spin animation is very fast and you never know if you are able to delete the armor before it clips you. and there is usually a million of them

[acoustic remnant]

o

[limpid coral]

why care about not get hit I care about not dying

[acoustic remnant]

i only die to chronos rn