h2-builds-and-combat

[sweet girder]

alright thanks, that'll help me get through higher fears

[vale gate]

that is effectively 1 build path tho, just scaling attack and rolling with the best hammer you get

[tall notch]

The playstyles are different enough I'd consider them different builds. Also there are changes like some of the builds wanting mana regen, weed killer becoming important in spin builds etc

[limpid coral]

What aspect doesn't do this ???

[civic ocean]

At what difficulty?

[stuck ether]

Thats like every build that uses the attack tho????

[vale gate]

yes exactly

[limpid coral]

If you're gonna say no that is a bad idea when there are no good ideas maybe reconsider

[bright token]

than axe has a selection of good hammers to build on, better than most weapons. but still hellsplitter + exe chop give such obscene power level increase that after playing this combo everything else will feel superweak

imo medea is a little better because it excludes the winning the game through hammer lottery

[stuck ether]

Hellsplitter + exe chop feels horrid on anything but than ace

[steel sequoia]

i feel like till 16 fear you can just play anything you like and get a win

[stuck ether]

Yeah you dont have to stop using bad things until the actual high fear

[civic ocean]

Until 40 ish tbh

And even then it's still possible, you just have to have incentive to take things in different directions.

Like if you're playing Charon and you get offered epic Sworn Strike, you can take it and pivot into a Local Climate spin build

[sage flame]

I don't think I've ever gone out of my way to use local climate

[civic ocean]

At one point it was the speedrun record on charon IIRC don't think it is anymore tho

[steel sequoia]

yeah i dont think you are considering casuals and grannys by saying 40f but its the same idea so w/e

[west summit]

Vow of abandon

[steel sequoia]

anything i mean weapons, boons, 16fear is basically the cap you dont get punished, its different than playing stupid.

[west summit]

I would not dare play like that if I had abandon 16f

[tall notch]

Isn't 40f casual fear

[magic moss]

[stuck ether]

Most people dont go above 32

[magic moss]

like 95% of the playerbase play <32F

[steel sequoia]

i cant pin a number but id say most likely 95% wont play <32F too. im a 12f player, happy with that

[spare kite]

Even the 16 heat achievement for h1 has a rather low % iirc

Tho maybe is higher here cuz most people that'd buy early access are the insane players

[steel sequoia]

game will sell tons when its released imo

[civic ocean]

I feel like the fear for rotating winstreaks rn is 47 for me but I think it could got to 40 or as low as 32

[uneven palm]

yeh 32 you can try out goofy stuff like Artemis Flick Knives and it's fine https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1270408427285516369/Screenshot_2024-08-06_at_11.48.01_AM.png?ex=66b3978c&is=66b2460c&hm=abf4830f5640f8e6fd9cafdff899bbfdf26fcff0789d8475be61c7e484a926ff&

[civic ocean]

Maybe peak long form run stuff is like 32 fear 12 aspects 6 underworld 6 surface

That's probably somewhere in the 2-2.5 hour range

[sweet girder]

does vent from Hephaestus count as a curse, if it does than that is a long lasting curse

[cursive oyster]

it does but vent only lasts 4 seconds

[uneven palm]

yeah Hitch is like 8s to start and can go longer, and Daze is 9s

[civic ocean]

Freeze also lasts a while too, I mean the benefit of vent compared to those statuses is that it deals big time damage when it expires

[surreal hazel]

Daze is a while

oddly Softness from Lunar Eclipse procced origination and that was confusing

[stable herald]

Softness? Is that the one that slows enemies in the blast zone?

[past salmon]

No its 50 smh my head

[wise idol]

50f is super casual

[past salmon]

Yeh

[limpid coral]

bruh I started hestia on staff just to see how it would go, artificered hestia room 2 and 4 and i'm being offfered hestia midboss room 5 vs arachne

[sage flame]

hey I heard u want hestia

[limpid coral]

the next run I have 1 boon and a hermes and rapid out of erebus

[odd ruin]

any build tips for the skull?

[fallow gust]

brainrot comment, most people dont even do 16f

[vale gate]

sounds like a most people problem frfr

[sweet girder]

does flick knifes work with aspect of Pan's ability? If it does that seems amazing.

[stuck ether]

It dows iirc

[tall notch]

Yeah, I had a flick knives+hook knives Pan build going once but I died to Chronos so it's not going on my channel

My recent 50f Pan did get flick knives, but I didn't do much with it since I had nothing else to support the special

[cursive oyster]

chat i am a strength believer now

[sage flame]

im also starting to believe in strength

it may truly really be the way

[tall notch]

strength religion rise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3-_ajaEPLs&

[past salmon]

Stop
No

[sage flame]

tweaking my arcana to strength has gotten me further than what i was running before

[past salmon]

What did you take off for strength

[sage flame]

boatman

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/854479132376694797/1270526808642682962/image.png?ex=66b405cc&is=66b2b44c&hm=1131cc87483e62d12e8be39fe970f1424e26d595c70df5b5cdcbac6864f489f8&

peep the 'cana

[past salmon]

No lovers is freaky af

[sage flame]

it aint loadin holdup

oh it did load

yeah i figure thinking about my future (cerb and chronos) aint it if i cant get outta erebus and im good at dodgin hecate

[past salmon]

Ok but then you get to Chronos and die a horrible death

[cursive oyster]

you gotta learn to get out of erebus with three grasp sunk on lovers then

[sage flame]

but i got to fields is all im sayin

most progress i done seen so far

for context this is scorch blades

[magic moss]

new section to the 50F sheet added, just some patch 4 misc stats https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit?usp=sharing

[past salmon]

Why are you doing blades as your first 50F
Do you hate yourself? 😭

[sage flame]

at this point its spite

and i figured it got me all the way up to 40 fear and i was like why am i attempting 45 fear when i could just go to 50 at this point so its like a cute thang

and then i pivot to than axe or something and its like ankle weights coming off

actually im more of a mel axe girlie but same thing really

[uneven palm]

It does! I was playing around with it today actually https://youtu.be/8GxUJFSMCt8?si=HxeuHkSThqOxqpCa

[modern wadi]

does spiteful strength activate with blast on attack

[cursive oyster]

no only with no core in the slot

[modern wadi]

ah thank you

[left sentinel]

primed mana does NOT trigger Huntress right? Just crossed my mind and seems incredibly unlikely

[stuck ether]

it does not trigger huntress

[radiant stirrup]

so with freezer burn, do I have to apply scorch and then freeze or does it work on frozen targets

[uneven palm]

Scorch then Freeze, yeah. Although if you apply more scorch and hit with another thing that applies Freeze in the 2s frozen window (like Arctic Ring) it’ll trigger again. Honestly not sure if that’s intended

[surreal hazel]

Basically the instant you apply freeze, it looks at the orange number for scorch, triples it, deals it as damage and sets the scorch to zero

the main limiter for its power is that most things that need that much damage are armoured enemies or boss phase thresholds

[wild pine]

It does, and it's fine, but I wouldn't say it's amazing.

You still put out a lot more knives per hour channeling the normal way I think

Or at least, I'd take any of the other special-modifying hammers before flick knives on pan

[surreal hazel]

but hey, you probably have a nice special boon, so it's not bad bad

and you aren't complaining if experimental hammer gives it to you

[tall notch]

It's the only special hammer I'll play on Pan because attack spam does better than actually playing the aspect

[modern wadi]

i hate doing surface right now cause its obiously not ready so i feel like its over before it gets started anyone else

[surreal hazel]

basically yeah, even though you get stronger much quicker

[modern wadi]

yeah it just doesnt feel to good win or lose rn imo

[bright token]

that's what i'm playing with most builds

[bright token]

the worst part is not no lovers but actually no +20% rare boons. it cripples the build's dmg a little

[tired fulcrum]

Just get the rarity, luck doesnt cost 5 grasp

Also aint it higher than 20% or do you mean epic chance

[limpid coral]

#h2-feedback message maaaaan has this person never timed out to rooms with 189043 unarmored whispers and spindles

[tired fulcrum]

i love never ending spindles

As bad as h1 c12 unarmored witch trickle

[dusky stag]

hey

what is good fear to take for trying the 32 fear challenge?

i will probably attempt it with lim and oros and take poseidon skill on my special attack

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1270839101905567915/image.png?ex=66b528a4&is=66b3d724&hm=8efb331f9ecf4b806e90839128044f560dc36c9d50537790674589662a5d88fe& if you're comfortable with timer3 this is bout as easy as you can get

[dusky stag]

oh thanks i appreciate it

[dusky stag]

this looks totally different then what i took to beat the 16 fear run lol

[hardy wasp]

Question about boon interactions. I have heaven flourish (your specials inflict blitz, blitz damage 310) and romantic spark (sprinting into blitz-affected foes triggers blitz and deals + 200% damage). Shouldn't the damage be 900+? It only deals 620 damage when I sprint into them.

Just want to check that I am not missing something obvious before I report it.

[dusky stag]

if the timer runs out, does that mean you lose the run?

[limpid coral]

you start taking 5 damage per second

[dusky stag]

i see, thats basically losing the run

[limpid coral]

its only until you reach the next region and get more time on the timer

[sage flame]

effectively but you can still tank for timer for another like minute or so if you have some health and all dds (you can just get them back so no worry)

[dusky stag]

i feel like top middle is free fear to take

[sage flame]

depends on the build

[magic moss]

i mean you can remove timer all together and increase increase dominance or commotion for example, this current setup puts more control in your hands than significantly buffing enemies

[sage flame]

one level of rebuke was left off on the 54 fear clear, id imagine for some reason

[magic moss]

rebuke can very easily triple the effective hp of many enemies so its incredibly bait

[dusky stag]

i guess so, but i play the twin blades with the heatseaking

feels like the bow from the first game

[sage flame]

yeah with no onion it's not bad cause you can get a rebuke clear right off the bat like scorch or hitch or even pos kinda

[magic moss]

even then you are increasing the ehp of every enemy by bare minimum 1 hit

[sage flame]

but if you go into it not thinking about rebuke you'll suffer a bit

[magic moss]

that hit can come from just about anything

[dusky stag]

yeah i wouldnt take it with the axe

i really dont like the axe

[uneven palm]

Is the 310 the base damage of the Flourish boon or is that what you’re seeing it drop for?

[hardy wasp]

That's the number listed on the boon itself (heroic level 4)

[uneven palm]

Then yeah I’d expect bigger damage. Worth reporting.

[bright token]

does anybody know if romantic spark can be triggered by only dash?

[sage flame]

I think it can iirc

[hexed field]

Aspect of Medea + Heroic Nova Strike + Heroic Hearth Gain + Bolstered Array + Possessed Array is just silly

(Hearth Gain is to negate the magick cost of Possessed Array)

[tired fulcrum]

Romantic spark is actually a multiplicative 2x damage increase

And it also procs toasting fork cuz reasons , tho doesnt boost toasting damage

Unless they fixed that bug idk

[edgy kindle]

Okay here me out: Medea skull, full salvo, destructive array, blinding sprint, rude awakening, nitro boost, volcanic strike and flourish, then, lethal snare rapture ring, glamour gain sweet surrender, total eclipse and Tuola because I can't fish and I like more lives

this just got me my first win so it's either good or I'm cracked

[uneven palm]

Lotsa big blasts are fun. I like doing Heph special start on Medea to mix things up https://youtu.be/qD0v4U1FiT0?si=82mfBEsaE1wNd2ix

[hazy oar]

making sure. the 'move faster' thing also means attack speed right?

[cursive oyster]

no it’ll specify when something affects attack speed

[hazy oar]

No no I mean. The testament things

"Enemies will be X% faster"

[cursive oyster]

oh ok yeah it does it sucks

[hazy oar]

it felt like it was harder to dodge enemy attacks when I had that.

[cursive oyster]

my recommendation is to turn on +20% move speed on every run you do just so you get used to it

[stuck ether]

if it was just movement speed itd be very free heat

[hazy oar]

ugh.

@cursive oyster but it kinda... makes it unfun do do melee focused builds.

like you have to just... constantly hit them from afar.

[limpid coral]

who says you have to

[hazy oar]

the enemies that constantly bite me or hit me when I am close enough?

[tired fulcrum]

Step 1 get dem cast, step 2 profit . Or trusty shield or mint condition. Or all 3

[limpid coral]

(that is why its worth 3 fear per level)

once u get used to it its very playable

if u don't want to, then click other curses 👍

[tired fulcrum]

In general getting enemies stuck in your cast is a good way to not get smacked

[hazy oar]

fair I guess. I also miss extreme measures.

[stuck ether]

which is why you keep it on to practice with it

[hazy oar]

also just... want to make sure of something. I like using Knives. I am guessing like Hestia, Zeus, Poseidon and... Hera work for basic attacks?

[cursive oyster]

aphrodite is amazing

[hazy oar]

... flutter strike?

[cursive oyster]

yeag

[magic moss]

if you want i have a sheet of 50F clears you can reference for builds

[tired fulcrum]

Poseidon attack kinda bad

[hazy oar]

But it doesn't inflict a status ailment

[cursive oyster]

you can pick up any of aphro’s gain cast or sprint for that

although with the gain you have to worry about huntress

[magic moss]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit

[stuck ether]

aphro prob best low fear. hestia and hera best once you get to higher fear numbers using vow of rebuke

[sage flame]

id still argue for scorch > aphro even in low fear given the supporting stuff like pyro technique and esp natural gas help the blades a ton, plus like 30-50 extra flat damage a hit from scorch is gonna be higher than aphro's % anyway

[cursive oyster]

counterpoint: wicked onslaught

[tall notch]

The % scaling from Aphro will do more if you have wicked but personally I don't like extra hammer reliance

[sage flame]

I mean yeah wicked is just crazy

[limpid coral]

will it? like aphro is around 100% on a good day which is like around 50 per hit

[sage flame]

the final slice in the dagger combo does 80 base I think

[cursive oyster]

aphro is 100% at bare minimum

[sage flame]

I think it's 80% at common iirc

[limpid coral]

its like 80 100 120 140? or something?

[spare kite]

Yeah

[limpid coral]

idk natural gas is really good but maybe less so on low fear

also for new players applying scorch and then running away is a totally valid move

[tall notch]

Without commotion things are stacked for natural gas way less

[limpid coral]

so it actually gets the full value of scorch flat damage

[sage flame]

dagger hits do 20x2 10x5 80 i think? or maybe it's 20x3 10x4 80, I think the first hit of the middle flurry starts at 20 if im reading the damage numbers right, so aphro doesn't help too much, even with wicked, hestia I feel offers more

plus some good duos (mostly freezer burn tbh)

[limpid coral]

i think its 20 20 20+10+10+10 80

[sage flame]

cool

[limpid coral]

yea freezer burn is so good

[cursive oyster]

so added up thats 170 per base combo without wicked

[tall notch]

O btw @limpid coral what do you have left for 50f all aspects?

[cursive oyster]

with wicked it does 280

[limpid coral]

medea lol

[sage flame]

is scorch attack common 20 or 30

[limpid coral]

i heard you were on it too

[tall notch]

I ALMOST did Medea. Reached Tart like 3 or 4 times

[limpid coral]

30 40 50 60

[sage flame]

thank

[uneven palm]

The full blade attack combo 8 hits. 20 20 5x10 80. Common Aphro is 80%, so 170 * 1.8 so 306 total damage, instantly. Common Hestia is 30 scorch, so that’s 240 eventually + 170 instantly for 410 total. Common Poseidon is 15 per strike, so that’s 290 total damage instantly (plus it smacks around the nearby baddies). With Wicked Onslaught, Aphro is 594, Hestia is 570 (eventually), Poseidon is 450.

With Furies and Origination and Wicked, Hestia pulls ahead again because you’re double-dipping on the global damage boosts

But even with the Hestia improvements, waiting on Scorch is real. At least against bosses.

Like both Hestia and Aphro are good on the blade attack, they’re just different feeling. Even Poseidon is decent because you’re also hitting things behind your target which can add up. So it’s not exactly clear-cut

[civic ocean]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1247919379245436991/1270987911877103670/image.png?ex=66b5b33c&is=66b461bc&hm=7c177c055386e893b9bcd35e13ae3083d974509bac369c6b30b498cad4d2f3e6&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=603&height=341 which one is leo, don, raph, and mikey

[tired fulcrum]

How many hours do you have in 55f

[civic ocean]

idk im kinda just grindin it

maybe 20?

[tired fulcrum]

Well thats not as unhinged as i expected gl

[civic ocean]

yeah I havent been playing as much and the runs are all really fast

[past salmon]

have you achieved the blue world yet

[civic ocean]

no, not yet, but I am really confident it is pretty doable, like just today I hit Sworn Strike + Wicked Thrasher and the game had to go out of its way to get me to lose to Hecate

Like I missed the embryo hit, the midboss, fountain, chaos, nemesis, and cocoons and still got to p2 hecate before timing out

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1241160250829049909/1270992993884704800/image.png?ex=66b5b7f7&is=66b46677&hm=194a6a3141cb1c8fb4c368661c26fd14f9ceeb7a61689e419339e1bcf0ee482a&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=494&height=204 This keeps happening, sadly

[tired fulcrum]

Cant minibosses get reoffered most or some of the time. Better than arachne vs shop exit

[surreal hazel]

You might get a miniboss reoffered once

[surreal hazel]

Yeah, I've decided, spirit surge is still not a good boon

even optimally

#h2-feedback message Thoughts on that placed here

[tall notch]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/l95MgSkoMmY the Chronos fight is so weird sometimes

[civic ocean]

Do you actually want an answer

[edgy anchor]

dancing knives or hook knives for aspect of pan

[civic ocean]

Hook knives are usually better with pan

[sage flame]

pierce is invaluable

[sage flame]

scythe throw?

[tall notch]

Yes

Because I am confused

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah thats just scythe throw it just spawned on top of your face

[civic ocean]

You got hit by frame 1 of the boomerange

[tall notch]

Chronos is trolling 😭

[radiant stirrup]

does removing a vow with Circe deactivate the testament im trying to do? I have 8 fear and need to beat Eris, but idk if removing the effects of one vow would mess it up

[tired fulcrum]

I assume it wouldnt, try it out

[stuck ether]

Iirc it deactivates it but keeps the fear

[sweet girder]

Aspect of melinoe wand with atheric moonburst (power shot restore 20 mana) with controlled burn (speacials launch a fire projectile for 10 mana) is awesome. You can also have specials bounce, and other special buffs.

[shy harbor]

crystal figurine activating judgement after hecate is honestly so funny

[split igloo]

I hate when you start to notice patterns in how rooms will spawn. Miniboss and Arachne is a trap, if you take Arachne you'll get shop and 2nd miniboss every time (not really).

I hope we're getting more minibosses.

[civic ocean]

Something to balance out how npc+Charon+midboss tends to overlap yeah. At 55 you just end up skipping miniboss, being weak, and dying at 11/Hecate

[split igloo]

Exactly.

[steel sequoia]

miniboss is good for timer and boon

[split igloo]

Yes, but shops and NPCs are usually even better for timer, and depending on the region can be boons and more.

[velvet sentinel]

Does anyone know if the piercing arrow fired by Artemis' Easy Shot boon ("A piercing arrow fires toward any foe damaged by your cast.") triggers with the Scorch inflicted by Smolder Ring??

Or would it just trigger when my O-cast detonates

Eh whatever will report back. Probably not bc it would be busted

Yeah, nothing. That's fine bc the other boons on offer were nothing special anyways

[civic ocean]

The omega cast is the explosion, not the effects of a cast boon

[civic ocean]

Ideally you want all three, like an ideal back half of Erebus would be:

Floor 6: Arachne
Floor 7: Midboss/Charon
Floor 8: Charon/Midboss
Floor 9: cocoons
Floor 10: fountain
Floor 11: artemis

[soft forge]

Woot woot, I beat Eris on 32Fear. Have now unlocked all the BUFF MELINOE statues.

I think Imma attempt a no-arcana run on surface and underworld, with no other Oaths. Just to see.

[sullen fractal]

Nice!!!

What was your oath build?

[civic ocean]

Just do s fresh file run

[bright token]

does someone use +10% duo chance in arcana? how much does it really help? i tried to track the effect of +20% rare boon recently and it doesn't seem like a flat 20% bonus, smth is off

i was thinking if it's even possible to build around some of the damaging duo boons in the frame of a speedrun to counter hammer rng. for example take freeze, scorch and blitz and hope for their duos, they are all quite damaging

i've been doing 32f speedruns lately and the hammer rng is sucking the soul out of me a little

[sage flame]

I wish something more interesting than boon rarity chance were on the "puzzle" arcana cards

[stuck ether]

No bc then id have to use staff

[civic ocean]

With the +10% duo boon chance the minibosses have a roughly 50% chance to show you an eligible duo boon, and 65% in Tart, no rerolls

[bright token]

huh that's pretty good. well then, to get duo arcana you need to ditch strength which is a loss. but you can get boatman and then have more chips to roll for duos at the shop and as rewards

can't get lovers either

[stuck ether]

I try to get the duo chance whenever possible

[civic ocean]

Strength seems bad to me but I haven't really drilled down into it yet

[stuck ether]

Isnt it only 30%

And damage reduction i think

[limpid coral]

its 50% weapon damage 50% dr at <=30% hp

idk I feel like if i'm getting value from strength dr i'm already dead

[stuck ether]

Oh.
Yeah only way id take strength is if im pinning in fields with like 210 max hp

Er thats the only way id get use feom it

[soft forge]

Nah, not till the game is complete. Besides, I still gotta do that for Hades 1.

[soft forge]

I do not recall exactly! My apologies.

[bright token]

you get a lot of benefit from strength at high fear. dd is sub50% restore, you get one hit and it's activated. 50% global dmg is massive

[civic ocean]

No it isnt

[bright token]

it is

also at mourning fields you are at 200hp most often than not and you can ride the engraved pin all the way to chronos with this bonus

[civic ocean]

You can do that anyways, without strength

[bright token]

i mean the dmg bonus is activated at 60 hp already

[civic ocean]

Right but you could also just use that extra grasp to do stuff when you're above 50% hp

And again I gotta stress that with the exception of certain builds, 50% global damage is not that impressive on top of furies and huntress and your god boons

[bright token]

it is that impressive

[civic ocean]

What are you giving up to run it

[bright token]

i dont take lovers and boatman

global dmg is the most important stat

[civic ocean]

Okay so ignoring the insanity of not taking lovers for now

[bright token]

there are very few weapons that can be carried by the %dmg on the attack/special boon alone. you need extra juice from other flat sources and that's where global dmg is huge

[civic ocean]

Boatman turns on 4 extra re-rolls, its value over a run tends to be moving you down your boon track by about 3 god boons.

On average, this will increase your overall damage by more than 50%. Much more, in many cases.

Not to mention that the 50% damage bonus from Strength is, during an ideal run, not even active.

[bright token]

you say it like all the gods have some hidden power you start unlocking further down the road
when in fact a lot of supplementary boons are trash for dmg
like small % chance to additional bolt on zeus, bonus armor dmg from heph or tiny % to do duble attack from appolo

[civic ocean]

Zeus is actually a great example, where Strength is often going to be overshadowed by things like his duos with Aph and Demeter, or builds that take advantage of Air Quality like Zeus+Apollo

[shy harbor]

i think the problem with strength is the same problem with hades 10% death defiance boon
you should be spending most of your time at full health where they dont do anything while a 10% chance to double hit is always active

[bright token]

during the "ideal" run you activate it right away and then don't take dmg until you gety over 30% again
but nothing is ideal. i just played a lot of 50f and 32f and was always tracking my hp and strength activation. it's a big bonus

at 50f especially, you can often end up not spending you 10 rerolls because there is nothing to spend them on, with all the onions and often useless junk in the shops

[civic ocean]

I mean I think if you are not spending your 10 rerolls at 50f there's something else going on here - are you not rerolling rooms?

[bright token]

not a lot of "going on" with the gameplay of someone who cleared 50f with all aspects in the game. these are just my observations from experience

[civic ocean]

Oh, surely no way for you to improve or be incorrect, then, since you've cleared 50f with all weapons! My mistake.

[limpid coral]

this is the origination debate monka

origination vs boatman version 2

[bright token]

i mean you are asking a question like i've downloaded the game yesterday, what am i supposed to answer

[civic ocean]

"Oh, maybe I should look for more opportunities to re-roll rooms so I can spend all 10 of my dice like everybody else who also clears 50f" was what I was thinking

[bright token]

both strength and origination have caveats in activation, origination is overall easier but it's harder to control

[limpid coral]

if you just high roll with strength or orig you don't need boatman 👍

[civic ocean]

True, just run no dice and hit what you want anyways

[limpid coral]

abandon gameplay

[bright token]

if i could i'd use them, i played with boatman a lot too. but very often all value you get out of bonus 4 rerolls is smth like one extra reroll on the boon selection (2 cost) and couple of rerolls of a regular major find that can get you a boon you need in like 20% of time maybe

[civic ocean]

Are you seriously maintaining the position that it's not feasible to use all 10 rerolls to try and improve your odds of winning a run

[limpid coral]

I like increasing the odds of getting my hera attack or arctic ring in room 3 and then having rerolls left over for heph or whatever

[bright token]

in erebus you reroll the miniboss reward and usually get your build going with the keepsake reward on like 3rd room. and after that it becomes much harder to control the outcome. regular major finds are very bad at rerolling into boons, not even talking about correct gods

[limpid coral]

Usually

Wait real
If you just reset room 3 if you don't get the core boon then the dice are not so good

[civic ocean]

Yeah I mean if you just don't try to win the run if you don't get your ideal start, sure

[limpid coral]

This guy is cooking

[civic ocean]

Should play 55

[bright token]

of course everything depends on the weapon. like with medea you have 60% bonus to attack and special already, strength gives you lesser % total dmg than it gives to smth that uses like omega attack

[civic ocean]

How many of your 50f clears came with a Selene start, out of curiosity

[limpid coral]

0 for me lul

[civic ocean]

I think it's fun how even at 50+ people are playing different games

[limpid coral]

Idk what weapon would take a hex as the first major

[civic ocean]

Any of them can, I feel?

[limpid coral]

They can but like
Isnt hera or demeter just better

Or the gain if its one of those aspects

Moros charon

[civic ocean]

Yeah, but if your goal is to try and win as many runs as you can that's not something you really think about right

[limpid coral]

When do you take the hex door into room 3 instead of rolling for the god

[civic ocean]

Never but my 50f clear was a moon start

[civic ocean]

This is another reason in favor of boatman imo

[bright token]

yeah of course if the goal is to streak runs without fails you take boatman

but if you want to speedrun or climb fear you need "a clear. you see a middle finger at room 3 you restart. 6 rerolls is enough to get your origination online at miniboss and then smth is left to reroll for 2nd miniboss, that if the reward is not onion

[civic ocean]

@limpid coral I don't remember, does Foolish run 10 rerolls or not. I am pretty sure he doesn't run strength right

[limpid coral]

he is the boatman believer

[civic ocean]

Isn't he the current 50 fear speedrun record holder by like quite a bit

[limpid coral]

yeah

[civic ocean]

So...whats going on here lol

[limpid coral]

moros

[civic ocean]

Am I being gaslit about Boatman not being good for going fast

[limpid coral]

(Moros already melts whatevers in front of u so room rng and stuff is way more important than how fast u kill whatevers in front of u)

[civic ocean]

Hmmge

[limpid coral]

Somehow u did not strike me as the type of person to use the peepo emotes

[civic ocean]

I contain multitudes

[limpid coral]

monka

[civic ocean]

@tall notch what was your arcana for droplet mel axe

[tall notch]

It was the standard manaless setup with 6 rerolls and origination

why are you asking?

[civic ocean]

Im going to start pushing moros and mel axe 55s

Do 50 first then 55

[slate crow]

whats a good build on regular staff for my first run?

[past salmon]

Isn't strength at 30%
So isn't this just wrong since DDs are 40%

I'm not tripping right

[uneven palm]

Also Strength isn’t actually a global damage boost

Seems like to boosts attacks/specials/casts, but not like Blitz or waves or scorch

[past salmon]

Also that

[uneven palm]

Like are you trying to do a fresh file clear? Or by first run you mean you’re trying to get any clear?

[slate crow]

no just to actually beat the game for the first time

not fresh file speedrun just a regular run

[uneven palm]

Okey dokey. For the staff I like starting Zeus cast or gain (if you like omegas), use those to get through Erebus until you get a hammer that might give you some spicy omega move you’ll wanna power up. Or you’ll get like Mirrored Thrasher or Wicked Thrasher and choose to bonk stuff with the stick. If the hammers suck look for Demeter and slot freeze into something to unlock their duo Hail Storm

[slate crow]

alr ty

[bright token]

yeah that.s what i meant. when you got 40% restored you get almost any hit and strength is activated, same for pin, you get 200+ hp and it's already active when you died but got your hp back
the biggest drawback is during chronos fight. if you walk in with like 40% hp you might not even get it activated
BUT
if you do drop to 30% before the fight and get a good armor at the shop which is rather common (or hep boon with armor) all that armor will have 50% dr

[bright token]

are you sure? i haven't checked but always assumed it's global

[stuck ether]

Its not global

[uneven palm]

It isn’t it’s very sad

Tried every patch, even tho the arcana description is worded like it should be global

[bright token]

damnit now i feel like an idiot

just checked myself and doesn't work on blitz. 50% dr and dmg to attacks/specials is still good but definitely not as good as to skip smth essential

it's still very good if you arent a dodge expert, got me through a lot of 50f clears

[uneven palm]

I don’t hate it it helped on my Mel axe clear

[bright token]

but for speedruns boatman is better in most cases

but it also puts more value on origination and furies cause global dmg is so rare
is poseidon dmg for 10 sec global btw?

[past salmon]

It says attacks and specials doesn't it

Also what are you dropping for strength??
Lovers ???

[bright token]

yeah lovers. i mean if i start playing antler at some point i'd have to slot it back

but i secretly hope it will be changed so i don't have to

i'll start doing this map for 32f speedruns and see how it goes. but it's probably too risky for 50f
https://ibb.co/GVctDY5

for nonomega builds of course. you might run into some priming problems but mana is always kinda there if you need it

[past salmon]

I find magick weapons suffer a lot with this kinda thing on any level where you are taking panic arrogance

Ok

[vale gate]

dds are a dpsloss, just dont die

[bright token]

that's possible for 32f but sometiems playing recklessly is a dps gain. vs some enemies you need to spend quite a bit of frames to avoid getting hit

[bright token]

"jackpot"
https://ibb.co/x5FTVJ7

[magic moss]

sheet updated for today

[wild swan]

Is the Demeter/Poseidon duo Natural Selection good under ANY circumstance? I feel like my avoidance of it could be a big 'I'm missing how this is good actually' but every time I'm offered it I feel a wave of 'god no, god no, god no' every time I see it

[uneven palm]

I guess if you got it super early and want a ton of boons it’d be cool

[civic ocean]

Natural Selection means you see more boons, more boons means you see more elements, more elements means more HP from water fitness and easier Frosty Veneer, which are both based off of Poseidon and Demeter, respectively.

[uneven palm]

Oh yeah it’d be cracked for infusions

[wild swan]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah very good point I didn't think about the infusion angle of it

I've never tried for both but it's a cool and really safe build

[torpid crane]

I just had an incredibly weird and confusing interaction with Lovers

Snow Queen popped, lost Lovers #1, then my SHIELD popped, then I lost Lovers #2 and #3. For the duration of this after I lost Snow Queen, the visual effects of my Lovers was also gone too

Does it have anything to do with Nitro Boost? I don’t remember where I heard it, but I heard it has jank interactions with barriers

[surreal hazel]

So, interesting combo that seems obvious in retrospect

Local Climate and Engagement Ring lets you basically have a much better nexus sprint

I guess Solar ring can do similar too, but blinding sprint already does that quite well

[sweet girder]

I just got an epic Blitz boon on a Omega attack Thantanos Aspect Build and I'm officially a Blitz Believer.

[uneven palm]

Yes join the Blitz cult

Try Scorch spin Thanatos too it’s fun

[surreal hazel]

Blitz can go bananas if you have certain setups

an interesting one is Heaven Flourish on mel torches and Romantic spark

set off the Helix, and just run into everyone

[warped fjord]

What are some recommended builds for moros torches? Also a good keepsake for last stages

Particularly for 32F onwards

Highest ive gotten is 16F but i wanna step up my game

[limpid coral]

you can take a look at some builds here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit tldr just pick hearth gain and win (look for hera attack zeus special clean candle clean helix)

[warped fjord]

I see, first keepsake foor boon i should aim for is hestia or hera? :0

[cursive oyster]

for fear hearth gain is just hands down the best option

you just need to make sure you don’t prime below 50

[radiant stirrup]

any staff enjoyers got a good build for turning up the fear a bit? just trying to clear some testaments

[limpid coral]

scroll up 4 message

[civic ocean]

Do you care about roleplaying or do you just want to win

[modern wadi]

is there an enemy in this game less fun than eris?

i know hecate is a snore but eris just bugs

[bright token]

eris is better than chronos and hecate. invulnerability phases can burn in tartarus

her arena with endless burning ground is more annoying than her

[modern wadi]

yeah i suppose it depends on fear vows too i personally like taking my time and dont use desperation but i see how if you enjoy playing that way it can be frustrating

[tired fulcrum]

Just use the pillars/get behind eris and she isnt that big a deal

[warped fjord]

say

does the vow of scars also makes picking up centaur hearts worthless?

[modern wadi]

no its healing not max hp

[warped fjord]

oh so I should aim for those? also I heard I should aim for as many free rooms as possible like 1. so charon and... chaos counts?

[cursive oyster]

charon, chaos, npc rooms, any room can be a fountain room or a nemesis room but only non menu rewards (money health mana and minor finds)
can contain artemis or cocoons (which don’t pause the timer but are still really fast)

[warped fjord]

ok so for this high ish fear run

I should aim for all those doors correct?

[cursive oyster]

looking for nem/arty/cocoons is only necessary once you start having to combine timer 3 with stuff like rebuke/commotion, don’t worry too much about it up until then

and even then i just take whatever i need most atm and pray they show up in minor find rooms

[warped fjord]

mmkay

chaos is a good pick though for free room? cause if centaur hearts doesn't recover hp at all it might be bad getting hurt for it

[cursive oyster]

chaos is always good except in c1/2 with onion imo, just pick up more centaur hearts and you can also rely on pin for a few biomes if you need the survivability

[warped fjord]

I thought it'd be good to have area 1 as the hestia keepsake cause I'll need hearth gain
but idk the other ones

[cursive oyster]

what fear are you on?

[warped fjord]

is not that big, 32

tho the highest I've went for was 16 today

I'll pick moros torches

[cursive oyster]

heph keepsake in oceanus if you don’t get him in erebus is good for mint condition or trusty shield, experimental hammer is always nice in oceanus or fields, droplet is amazing offensively for one biome because moros loves channel speed

[warped fjord]

the oaths I heard were nice to use for 32 were 1 suffering and capped in fury, haunting, wandering, scars, destitution, panic, forsaken, arrogance and desperation

[cursive oyster]

defensively pin is amazing

[cursive oyster]

i prefer 2 levels in blood and one in dominance and drop scars 3 to 2 and suffering entirely

[warped fjord]

ok so.... hestia keepsake for erebus, heph in oceanus if I don't get him before, experimental hammer is icarus right? for fields and which one is droplet?

[cursive oyster]

hermes

[warped fjord]

ughhh I have that one in rank 1

I'll try using it more then to cap

[cursive oyster]

moros has crazy boss damage so it can def afford almost any level of dominance imo

[warped fjord]

I see..... I'll try that instead then ty

so which one is the best for biome 4? I saw many use the moros keepsake

[cursive oyster]

defensively moros is amazing yeah

[radiant stirrup]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005437302522261578/1272017154538999819/image.png?ex=66b971ca&is=66b8204a&hm=e11c85c62b6aaf4807efcc7b87f1a34426519dd7831553e8c12dbca8fca3df44&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=810&height=618
this shouldnt be allowed, this is a war crime

[tall notch]

Pin for defense, antler for damage, Lion Fang for damage if you're not comfortable with antler

[warped fjord]

I uploaded my run to yt, I know for a fact I did a lot of stupid and sus decisions in the run

but I'll learn, I'm kinda proud considering before I struggled to clear +16F

[magic moss]

all good, 32F is still a significant accomplishment

[magic moss]

#self-promotion message signal boost on the reddit post would be appreciated

[vital torrent]

I just tried a 32F run. Disastrous

Any advices on it?

[magic moss]

lets start with the basics, can you send vow and arcana loadout?

and what aspect you are using/plan on using

[shy harbor]

also depends which way you are going
i did 32 heat underworld with lim and oros but poly ruined me with them so did staff

[vital torrent]

Ah that'll have to wait until tomorrow

[vital torrent]

Most likely Than's

I have to do both up and down ways

[magic moss]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit?usp=sharing well heres this as a resource if you would like

[vital torrent]

Cool, thanks

[tiny oasis]

Hi guys.
For a while now i've been collecting victory screens and using them to calculate boon scores and create a calculator for optimal boons.
I have also created an app to help with that. Everything is still in a very early stage but i want to put it out there so i can get some early feedback and understand how to make both the app and the score algorithm better.

This is the app: http://hadesforge.com/

[soft forge]

Yeeeee beat Chronos on 32 Fear again, cause I felt the first time was too close. This one was more decisive.

Thanatos Axe (or another relatively high attack speed weapon) synchronizes well with Static Shock and Nova Strike. Giving you wide AOE and lots of bolts of lightning. Burns through the Vow of Rebuke well. And chips away at increased HP and spawn rate.

[tall notch]

Hold on, did you just click rebuke on 32f with axe

[surreal hazel]

The absolute madman

Or a Hestia stan

[spare kite]

#h2-feedback message why is the answer here never the "don't take the curse"

and if being petty enough, just don't get hit

[radiant stirrup]

woke up today and realized I dont have to do any high fear runs anymore. all my testaments are done YIPPEE ‼️

[uneven palm]

For real the “oh… that’s a novel way for chaos to ruin me that I didn’t think about” discoveries are honestly some of my favorite moments

[hazy oar]

controversial opinion but

Posideon strike or wave strike isn't bad

[limpid coral]

what does this mean

[uneven palm]

People do some, uh, suboptimal things to not take timer (I’m guessing)

[limpid coral]

it may not be optimal but it may be more enjoyable

[uneven palm]

I mean… fair

[civic ocean]

There's a real trend amongst a lot of the feedback posts that is basically like "I don't like that my actions had consequences"

[limber plaza]

Hmm interesting, how does it work ?

[surreal hazel]

It isn't bad, no

funny really, back before the hestia buff, everyone called Wave boons just better versions of scorch

and there was no nerf to Posideon, if anything, combining Ocean's bounty and Sunken treasure and splitting Gyser Ring was quite a buff

[warped fjord]

would it be ok if I posted the vid I made of my 32F run to see how I can improve? :O

[soft forge]

Yes indeed. It's what I've been using. So I don't have to take the damage increasing Oath or the time limit Oath. I also take the Onion Oath for the same reason.

[soft forge]

Well done! I'm in the same boat. Gosh, doing runs with less Fear is so much easier.

What I really like about the Fear/Heat system in Hades 1 and 2 is that you get to pick your poison. I hate time limits and am relatively bad at dodging. So I tailor the Oaths to suit my style and weaknesses.

[magic moss]

go for it

[tiny oasis]

The way you use it is you select your weapon and then start your run in-game. Then when you get a boon in-game, you are presented with 3 choices. You enter the 3 choices in the hadesforge app and it will give you scores for each boon choice. Then you pick the boon that you want in-game and also pick it in the app. Then rinse and repeat for each boon. The scores of the boons are calculated based on the damage of the build and the number of matching boons in your current run.

[limpid coral]

There is so much plentiful forage slander in feedback 😔

Its trying its best 😔

[cursive oyster]

plentiful forage is goated

[warped fjord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBBcGDmK7zk

many sus decisions tho to be fair I ramped up the fear by more than double, it was rough asf but I think we clutched

[magic moss]

Comments:

1. You're channeling omega special way too often. You really should only be channeling your next omega special after the previous one is either gone, just about to run out, or right before the next wave arrives. If you don't have an omega special active, it should be your first priority. I see you do random attacks and special clicks for no real reason
2. Always take miniboss in Erebus. Its a super fast room clear especially with moros that isnt all too difficult and you can reroll for a god you want. You got lucky that the centaur heart you took was a fountain room. Regardless, you had to choose between miniboss and shop because of your choice, sacrificing a guaranteed boon and a shop
3. I don't know why you didn't take the 10 dmg for a free mana tonic. You aren't playing with Scars3 so that damage isn't significant at all and the mana tonic helps reduce the effect of Arrogance letting you play for rarity more
4. You have Artificer. You didn't use it at all in Erebus or Oceanus, the places where the additional major boons have far more value. You never even used artificer at all, so why take the card? Be more aware of your options
5. You used a grand total of 1 reroll by the time you reached fields. They are a resource, use them to reroll major boon rooms or boons or whatever. You took a very suboptimal pom during end of oceanus since you didnt have enough money for endshop. That could have been a boon. I died inside when you took uncanny fortitude instead of rerolling for Mint Condition on that 2nd Heph boon in fields, and a bit more when you went for a third heph instead of taking hera and looking for an attack boon
6. When you have total eclipse or phase shift, going Selene keepsake is a very real option going into fields. You can get the impervious upgrade or just additional damage/duration, both of which are very helpful. Be aware of your path of stars

[warped fjord]

I see I see...

I knew i took a lot of sus decisions but I never knew it was that bad, I have a lot to learn indeed

I shall try another 32F run with these advices. Thank you so much ^^

Which one is Artificer I forgor?

[magic moss]

the turn minor reward into major

[warped fjord]

I actually have no clue what those are....

I assume minor are money/pom and so on

[magic moss]

nope

minor rewards include ash, psyche, bones, and nectar

if you look, you have the option to transform any of those rewards because of the artificer cards, and they can transform into money, mana tonic, centaur heart, boon, or hammer (all of which are considered major rewards)

[warped fjord]

Ohhh... i thought i shouldnt reroll those cause i could reroll for boons instead

Or are those diff rerolls?

[magic moss]

artificer transformations are different rerolls

regardless you used a single reroll by the time you reached fields yuo werent using rolls period

[warped fjord]

Ohhhhh... i feel v stupid. Do i change those on the doors or when the prize is up?

So i should focus to use my rerolls on erebus/oceanus mostly....

[magic moss]

when the minor reward is up, if you pause right before you collect one of the minor rewards in the video you sent you can see the option to transform instead of collect

you typically want to use your rerolls to look for specific boons you want or for a god

miniboss doors will always be a god boon so most use rerolls on the erebus miniboss to get a god they want

people also reroll heph boon a lot for trusty shield or mint

[warped fjord]

Ohhhhhh i see.... i see i got much luckier than i thought, my decisions werent sus, they were nonsensical then

[magic moss]

pretty much yeah

[warped fjord]

I understand.

Its kinda embarrassing cause I didnt know almost any of the stuff I should have known before attempting the run

I def think I can do better now >:3

[limpid coral]

Artificer good
You can consider not artificering a nectar if it will hit a good boon

[warped fjord]

So hera is the best one for attack with moros?

[limpid coral]

Hera good but honestly any % will do fine

[warped fjord]

I picked aphro for attack

[limpid coral]

Freeze is good apollos range is good aphro is kinda overkill but also fine

[warped fjord]

Demeter seems nice then

[limpid coral]

Hitch speeds up sirens which is one of the most annoying fights if you don't have hitch lul

[warped fjord]

OOOOO ok so, I'll aim if possible for demeter attack and hera special, that sounds good?

[limpid coral]

you can honestly play whatever
zeus special hera attack i believe is what the speedrun goes for

moros melts sirens even without hitch anyway

[warped fjord]

Hmm i see, was thinking demeter cause im kinda bad at dodging quick attacks

[spare kite]

Can always do cast for that

You can drop your cast without interrupting your omega channeling if you don't take the ranged options from zeus/hestia/dad

[warped fjord]

ok so I tried a new run, uploading it to yt as we speak.

I was 20 seconds slower so I was suffering the penalty yet I handled much better I think cause I still had my 3 death defiances and I picked the moros keepsake but I ended up not needing it xD

hera on attack and demeter on special go brrrrrrrrrr

I do think I was being too reckless with my omega special spam still, I tried to tone it down yet it's a bad habit to correct for me xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQyiAZq7sio

lmk if this one is a lil better, I tried my best ;;

[wide forge]

Oof. Trying to finish off that 32 Chronos and I just cannot close him out.

Going for Spin-2-win thanatos after getting frustrated with Melinoe's daggers for backstab. Just not enough crowd clear most fights.

[bright token]

spin thanatos is extremely hard for a 1st chronos kill. all your spinning time you are vulnerable to him and he constantly teleports away from your range. i suggest regular axe attacks and using block proactively

[wide forge]

32F's not really a first Chronos kill 😄

Spin's really so I can get to him with enough boons and restarts to stick him down. With the daggers, I keep getting there with 1 left.

[steel sequoia]

i wouldnt try 32f chronos without max arcana and max weap, just insane difficulty to play that way

[wide forge]

I'm pretty close on max arcana. Already have max weapon.

Been taking advantage of his arcana and working on hard-scaling early weapons. Granted, it's a devil of a time to get through the early levels and I die there as much as anywhere, but if I can get to Cerb, I usually die late second stage of Chronos

[bright token]

yeah i meant 1st at 32f. imo chronos is the hardest part of the game when climbing up the fear. for 1st 32 you need to choose a safer option

[wide forge]

ANy better Ideas than those two? Considered Medea's skull

[bright token]

charon axe is pretty safe

[sweet girder]

is it just me or, on higher fears you need a good start. I sometimes just lose too much health at the begining if I don't get anything good.

[limpid coral]

difficulty is relative etc etc
if you are having difficulty then that is true

(that said it is a skill issue up until onion rebuke and commotion happen)

[bright token]

medea skull is the hardest weapon
i suggest any of the axes, maybe persephone skull, or pan blades going for solo target annihilation build

[wide forge]

Mel Blades were doing pretty well up until 32. Solo target burst can get pretty nasty

[bright token]

yeah mel blades are good. but pan blades can kill chronos in seconds bypassing most of his mechanics

[hazy oar]

yeah I'm... not the only one who thinks anvil ring needs to be buffed or it's annoying that anvil ring can't be used for Duo Boons, right?

or that more earth boons or changing the heph's attacks to earth would be easier

[uneven palm]

Hey nice win. If you’re looking for advice I’d offer two things after watching through Hecate. First, cast more. Like all the time. You take a lot of hits from like Whispers and fishies that wouldn’t have been able to approach if you had the binding circle between you and them. Also you get more damage from Furies if you have that card on. Second is probably related: the torches you can cast and dash while continuing to channel the attack. If you’re on controller I’d consider rebinding attack to like a shoulder button or whatever lets you hold attack but still tap dash or cast. You’re losing a lot of omega attack uptime because (I could be seeing this wrong) it looks like you stop channeling attack every time you dash.

[bright token]

yeah anvil rins needs smth extra. dmg is mid, no status, no cc

overall heph attacking stuff is all kinds of strange. plain blast is super weak unless pommed into 2 sec cd and then duoed on top

[uneven palm]

I like Heph special kind of a lot because a 400-base-damage screw-you button is sometimes nice to have, but attack I don’t find myself going for often. The timer isn’t shorter enough to offset half the damage and there’s like almost always a better option

[wide forge]

It's handy when you're really not spamming that special and really want to knock someone's block off when you use it.

[wild swan]

I would love it if Anvil Ring was one of the unlocks of Furnace Blast, at least. Especially since Poseidon's cast can proc Slip now

[warped fjord]

O: 📝 I see see,,,, hmmm which is a good button we don't actually use in shoulders?

[uneven palm]

Personally I use the right trigger for attack on the torches. I moved Interact to the left trigger and it stays there.

[sweet girder]

I just had my first 32 fear clear with 4 hammers. Whats the chances of getting 4 XD

[past salmon]

was it 4 through the use of experimental hammer?
Not super rare

[sweet girder]

i got 2 natural hammers, one from experimental hammer, and one from echo duplication choice.

I haven't had 3 natural hammers. Can you even get 3 normaly?

[past salmon]

yeh not super rare, if you save rolls for fields you can force double hammer relatively easily

If you have vow of bitterness on it's even easier

[past salmon]

no but there are other ways to get extra hammers
Namely artificer

[sweet girder]

What's artificer?

[past salmon]

arcana card, lets you turn minor finds into random major finds 3 times

If you save charges until fields, you can use artificer inside of a room where a hammer is present and you can get extra hammers that way since artificer can still give you a hammer until you actually pick up the other hammer

[sweet girder]

wow, so you can get 5 in one run. Or is it posible to get more?

[past salmon]

I think Max is like 6 or smth
Maybe 7 actually, I think it's technically possible to get a bonus 3 hammers from Artificer but that's like absurd luck
And then you get 3 from reg hammers+echo and then another 1 from experimental

[sweet girder]

at that point you have practicaly all the hammers

[past salmon]

yeh cuz you should be able to get a fields room with a hammer in it, have 3 minor finds that you can turn all into hammers, since hammer isn't removed from the pool until you actually pick it up so you can just turn them into hammers before picking any of them up

but idk what the odds of that actually happening is
LIke super omega low probs

[sweet girder]

Not something you can count on thats for sure, but it would be epic if I even got 5 or more

[cursive oyster]

8 because of anvil right?

[vale gate]

meg drops hammer too

i mean nem

[bright token]

wait so do i understand it correctly. the zeus aphro sprint duo doesn't work on just dashing but it does work on aphro damaging dash?

or maybe not. hard to say based on chronos fight

[past salmon]

oh true anvil exists
And maybe 9 cuz Nem can do goofy stuff actually yerh I think

[bright token]

yeah it seems like it does
i got a 2310 blitz hit which was a crit of 220 * 1.75 and then a double

is crit always 300% dmg? if it then then yes
the description of the duo is again a little off, you are getting double dmg, not bonus +200%

[uneven palm]

Yeah, it seems wrong. You also get bonus damage from Toasting Fork for some reason with Romantic Spark

Crits are triple damage, yeah.

[bright token]

i might be able to do sub9 thanatos axe 32f finally. just need right duos going and not die to chronos with antler and no lovers

i mean with no dependence on hammers at least

[uneven palm]

What are you thinking? Romantic Spark?

[meager bramble]

I'm curious, are there 50F clears building around Heph blasts?

It seems to me (a lower Fear player) that they just need so much investment to make it worth bothering with, so I'm curious if they hold up at the top end of Fear (and if maybe I should start playing around with them more!)

[surreal hazel]

It should work on dashing into someone

well, sprinting into someone

[past salmon]

not any that I know of
Your intuition is correct, they require too much investment to become on par with other options, you simply don't get enough stuff at 50

Heph cores are normally just like, chucked onto an off thing
Like Heph spec gets used on axe special sometimes ig 💀

[surreal hazel]

No Trusty Shield at 50F?

[past salmon]

????

[surreal hazel]

I was asking if that was still relevant at 50F

[meager bramble]

I think Plasma misunderstood my question - I was asking very specifically about Heph blasts, not Heph boons generally 🙂

[past salmon]

yeh it is

Trusty shield is still amazing

[surreal hazel]

thought so

[past salmon]

although I've always been an advocate for Mint>Trusty

[surreal hazel]

so you still want heph on your runs, just... not the kabooms

[past salmon]

yeah heph helps a lot just from a clearing perspective

50F speeds are a bit different, I generally don't rlly want heph and would rather have a different god fill the slot

getting like Mint in a speed is still great mind you, so he is relevant

[surreal hazel]

huh, just been digging in the code a little

looking at the blast stuff, turns out yeah, Grand Caldera Epic = Heroic, oops

and... the pom stacking being +50 each pom is.... a bug?

            {
                [1] = 25,
                [2] = 20,
                [3] = 15,
                [4] = 10,
            },```

it's set up to have these as the pom upgrade bonuses, but it's ignoring them

and instead using the base bonus damage of 50 with each pom

[past salmon]

funny
I have an inherent distrust of peoplewho dig through the code now though I've actually been lied to too much 😭

[surreal hazel]

the code calls a bunch of stuff from all of the place

so it's easy to miss stuff, like I cannot explain yet why Romantic Spark also procs Toasting Fork

My suspicion is that dashing into something adds a +200% bonus to the blitz, but also just sets the remaining timer to 0 and forces it to detonate

[past salmon]

I cant remember who it was but I was told 2 major things that were just incorrect

1. Someone said Minibosses have their duo chances at 0% which is just wrong
2. someone said that Nem/Art only show up specifically for Heart/Gold and not Mana Pots which is also just wrong

a bunch of other stuff too, I don't really mind I'm sure the code is confusing but atleast try to make sure before stating stuff as facts in places like these

[surreal hazel]

which is.... also why I think it's possible to proc blitz the normal way, sprint into them before the damage happens, and get the bonus

the code is actually really easy to read and understand, it's just that Hades is a complex mess of interweaving systems

which leads to weird spaghetti, like how using Excess on Total Eclipse tries to spawn an omega cast on the impact site, but Local Climate goes "Nope, you're spawning that where Mel is"

[surreal hazel]

That's interesting, if a boon doesn't have a pom stack table set, each pom defaults to adding whatever the common boon value is each pom

which explains Hereditary Bane, Electric overload, Grand Caldera and maybe a couple of others I'm forgetting

[civic ocean]

I'd throw out Anvil Ring as something worth experimenting with, but yeah you're generally not happy to see Heph first after Onion at 50

[stuck ether]

Oh yeah if i dont get keepsake god first after onion i pray its dem then aphro then apollo

[wanton onyx]

does h2 have duo boons like the first game?

[civic ocean]

Yep

[wanton onyx]

sweet

i'm not sure what's a good build tbh since there's so many new gods lol, i'm really liking the sister blades though

[civic ocean]

yeah just go play and you'll find stuff

[wanton onyx]

i wish i could get more death defiances too...can never get enough health back once i use one up

i definitely feel like i'm either not getting the right boons or maybe i'm just bad at dodging but i literally cannot get past scylla

i also feel like i can't use my cast with her either since her and her bandmates just break out

yea i think i'm just bad at dodging i wanted to do my omega cast but i was getting hit by like all the baddies lol

[cursive oyster]

yep

shoot

my phone tricked me into thinking that was the most recent message sorry for the ping

[wanton onyx]

lol you're good

[torpid crane]

@worthy epoch I’m understanding the pain that is 50F pan

[worthy epoch]

It really is that bad. Personally also just been busy recently which makes it tough to do runs but good luck with it 🫡

Imo start sworn strike, flame strike or static shock

[torpid crane]

I had a great run going but lost it bc the tartarus rooms were LOOONG. I had 2-3 bag + skulls room that were never ending..

I came in with 7 minutes and went into Chronos with like 40 seconds

[worthy epoch]

Tempus/skulls regularly run end me

Skulls gotta be changed a bit, right now depending on your cast type they can fly into the middle of the cast w their attack ruining the purpose of it its crazy

[torpid crane]

I wish there’d be less waves of them and just have more in each wave rather than having like 5 waves of them

[torpid crane]

They fly in and teleport out like it’s nothing on my Arctic Rings

[worthy epoch]

This its so messed up

[tall notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN79j1QS2B4& anvil ring is playable but I'd rather have storm ring if I had the option as it fills the same role in a build but does it better

[torpid crane]

@worthy epoch Getting to use Artemis after what was essentially aspect-less daggers is gonna be good for my soul

[worthy epoch]

makes the miniboss in erebus free which is nice

[torpid crane]

I don't know if this happens to you.. but when you get the mid-shop with the miniboss right next to it.. why is it ALWAYS Hepheastus for me? Does that happen to you, or is it only me the game is out to spite

[worthy epoch]

or apollo but yes

[sweet girder]

Only if you could re roll hammers. Builds would be so much more consistent and a lot less luck dependent. I hate the felling of having a great run ruined because you didn't get the right hammer.

[shy harbor]

i think thats part of the idea of the anvil before chronos but that thing has a higher chance to screw a build than make it better

also its like never there its so rare too

[torpid crane]

Being able to reroll hammers would be insanely broken I feel like

[torpid crane]

I've grabbed that thing maybe twice. One time it killed my build by taking my Mirrrored Thrasher, and the other time it gave me Final Slice

[shy harbor]

ya the problem is it takes a hammer that you took because it helps (even if not much) and gives you 2 random
i never took it more than like twice in all my time with hades 1 because its rng legit right before the final boss

[torpid crane]

@elfin ivy Try Moros with Zeus special. It's an HP melting machine

[torpid crane]

I think that's the entire appeal of it. It will more likely than not screw you, but if you do pull the trigger and it works out, dopamine rush

Let's go gambling!

[shy harbor]

ya it just stands in contrast to everything else that can be there since they are all things that help you

[torpid crane]

Ehh I'd argue that the Anvil falls under the umbrella of "it can help you" along with the boons that may appear

One is far less likely to screw you over but both can do nothing for you

[shy harbor]

its just that anytime i see the anvil there im like oh that sucks theres 1 less boon im getting

because it takes a good hammer makes it so much worse than getting a boon that might not help
its a gamble i get that but its balanced weirdly

[elfin ivy]

Huh wait a minute... you're right actually 👀 Blitz on that Special would be diabolical

[torpid crane]

Yeah, but the same argument can be applied to boons too. Maybe I wanna see HP, a pom, or magick and instead I get a boon

RNG just be RNG-ing

[elfin ivy]

When the roguelike has RNG

[shy harbor]

ya but a boon is helpful

like almost always helpful and rarely negative
where the anvil always has a negative and sometimes a positive

[elfin ivy]

True... I've never touched the anvil myself, come to think of it. I didn't even complete its codex entry in H1 from how little I used it

(And we're talking 140+ hours and all achievements 💔)

[spare kite]

Anvil is such a meme

[elfin ivy]

I picked it like once in 2 so far, hoping it takes the crap Hammer Icarus gave me....... you can guess what happened 😭

[spare kite]

At least h2's hammers don't have as many "rip your entire build"

Taking anvil on sword was certainly a choice

[shy harbor]

ya i feel like most hammers are quite helpful

[elfin ivy]

Yeah the bad:good hammer ratio is much healthier this time around

And combining them is a tonnnn more fun

Psychic Whirlwind + Furious Whirlwind God BLESS that combo

[ocean ibex]

i wish we could roll hammers so i could make a fetching + possessed array build

[soft forge]

I~ Hate~ The~ Time-limit~ Oath~

Also the knives. Prolly my least favorite weapon.

[surreal hazel]

No more cursed slash when you're using the Aspect of Arthur

[surreal hazel]

Hrm, leftover code for how the elements were originally planned to work? There's a single infusion referenced for each element. Fire gave damage, water gave health, Air gave dodge, Earth gave mana and Aether gave speed.

like it was some arcana effect maybe?

feels like the first three were recycled into the infusions we already see

[elfin ivy]

The Blades are really weak on their own, yeah, but with the proper build, they eviscerate anything in their way

For starters, getting Glamour or Hearth Gain with them makes Magick regen so easy, you may as well have infinite Magick with them.

And it has some of the game's most creative Hammers imo. The best ones turn the crappy Special into a vicious beast that can one-hit the armor off of Tartarus goons. Hook Knives (Specials pierce through enemies and boomerang back to Mel) and Dancing Knives (Specials ricochet off of enemies) are a fav combo, doubly so if you put Hitch on the Special for some extra juicy crowd control

Even early on the Special's not that bad. It's pretty handy for stunning a spongey enemy from a distance and using that stun window to actually close the distance between you and them

[tall notch]

At least blades aren't Medea

If not for the Mel aspect skulls would be my least favourite weapon overall

[steel sequoia]

persephone > pan unfortunatelly

[tall notch]

At least Pan can deal damage if you ignore the aspect and roll the god hammers

[soft forge]

Thank you for this knowledge!

[split igloo]

I don't like anything that involves standing still to charge a something, or a repeated application of dodge attack dodge attack dodge attack. The subconscious timings of when to attack and dodge relative to enemy position are all very homogeneous once it's all second nature. I want more mobility variation; speed, angle, timing buffs, debuffs, ect. I actually fall asleep playing if I keep going long enough because it's all so... similar. Writing out of love and respect

[civic ocean]

Yeah it sounds like you enjoy a different video game

[upbeat plover]

Man I miss old hera cast new one feels useless

[civic ocean]

It's okay, but yeah patch 3 ER was nuts

[steel sequoia]

old hera cast was as busted as old momus, the nerf was needed for Rousing Reception, its good imo.

[bright token]

hera cast was op but now it's quite dull and loses to some other casts. needs rework imo. regular balancing process

[stuck ether]

I think its fine rn
Its still applying hitch in a decent area

[wise idol]

Yeah I like it rn

[ocean ibex]

🤨

[rain hazel]

Thoughts on Judgment arcana?

[limpid coral]

meme

[pseudo sequoia]

honestly i still think you can make a good argument in favour of it being top 3 casts

tbf most of that argument being hitch + the explosion being very good at wiping out crowds of smaller enemies

[wild swan]

Judgment sure is fun when Circe gives it to me in Erebus when I put her keepsake on. Otherwise I tend not to enjoy it

[bright token]

imo demeter hestia and zeus casts are better
hera, heph, aphro and apollo are really behind. poseidon - idk what's with hte poor guy, all cores are super underwhelming

[limpid coral]

rapture ring is arctic but worse (still okay though, enough to help get out of erebus)

[pseudo sequoia]

agreed on all of this except heph cast i think it's actually quite good

starts out a little weak but the total damage can go quite high, it's pretty solid

[bright token]

it's probably the best of 2nd tier casts. but no status or cc puts it behind

[rain hazel]

What keepsakes do y'all start with?

Wondering if I should use something besides God keepsakes

[stuck ether]

nah its usually best to do god keepsake

[shy harbor]

god keepsakes are the way to go if you are trying for a build or specific boons

if you arent then you can basically do whatever you want

[uneven palm]

Starting god keepsakes is kinda the meta. Like I’ll start coin purse if I wanna submit to RNG. Like there’s so many keepsakes that seem designed for later game

[sweet girder]

I just start with coin purse then if I get a bad starting boon I quit and use a god keepsake but stay on the same seed.

Playing the odds

[torpid crane]

@worthy epoch I’m in location 10 erebus with 1:55 left. should I risk the trial (demeter/aphro) to get arctic ring and random aphro boon? I already lost heartbreaker getting glamour gain. setup rn is that, clean candle, heroic hestia attack, and frigid sprint on mel torches

[civic ocean]

Lots of embryo recently

[bright token]

god keepsake's main trait is ensuring you aren't getting screwed with a hex start. but i reckon it's gonna be changed

[past bough]

hizers

[slow thorn]

I've played several runs using the crystalline figurine [the pig] keepsake and played my arcana cards my preferred setup.. destroyed Hecate and drawn the judgment card [several times after the 1st area].. I beat Chronos having every arcana card w/ exception for 1

If u draw the judgment card after the 1st area.. you definitely maximize your arcana cards

[shy harbor]

ya judgement on its own is something you can take to make a run super rng for fun
but its also very fun to get with crystalline figure killing hecate

[torpid crane]

@worthy epoch I survived pan.. I can survive persephone..

[worthy epoch]

im doin mel skulls rn ive never used any of these past testament fear

[torpid crane]

The timer is doing me dirty

[worthy epoch]

timer on mel skulls is so good im scared of persephone and medea though

[torpid crane]

I am suffering on Persephone

[worthy epoch]

hoppin off the game now but i cleared mel skulls second try

[torpid crane]

🫡

[soft forge]

Thank you for the advice! I got Hearth Gain and I am now kicking butt.

[formal pawn]

im gonna try out a build with mel staff where you just max out the cost of omega attack (+demeter magick regen) to always have your selene thing ready and become an impervious living nightmare forever (for high heat)

[kindred sonnet]

how do i get good at the chronos fight, enough time has passed to where im semi comfortable with the new game but i still perform so poorly against the final boss, i feel like i would probably do better fighting EM4 hades as compared to chronos. I dont think im a terrible player or anything (for reference i have completed 50 heat in hades1) but I can never beat chronos without a super broken build or burning through all my DDs

he attacks super frequently with FO2 (or the equivalent in hades2) and mel having only 1 dash makes it feel too sluggish to avoid all his attacks

[past salmon]

tbh the only real answer is to practice (using savestates is advised)

You can start by practicing with Axe I suppose, it's probably the easiest fight since you can block almost everything he has. Chronos fight really does just kinda come down to practice. Apart from P2.2 (tempus swarm can create some nonsense) the fight is overall super fair and just comes down to your own capabilities

[surreal hazel]

People hating on tidal ring still

[pseudo sequoia]

(they're right bc it's not very good

bottom 3 if not worst cast but the jury (me) is still out on solar ring

[tame steppe]

Is anyone shocked at how many people are sleeping on Persephone - Revaal? If you get Anvil or Storm ring, you absolutely wreck face with it

[bright token]

it's a very dark souls style boss with his slow, delayed windups and almost instant swings. so the only way to feel comfortable in it is learning timings and learning how to tell apart the windups, which is tricky because of color palette and all the fx
trying to outmanoeuvre him is not good. his ball circle spawn at 40% speed is near instant, teleport bubble is big and also near instant, boomerang has very unintuitive player tracking at the windup. so you just need to learn all timings and dash through/away everything

[tall notch]

Chronos is such a dark souls boss i found his timings more intuitive at 40% extra speed than regular speed 😭

[bright token]

that's true

i tend to avoid freeze these days cause it messes up the muscle memmory so much, especially vs chronos

[spare kite]

Fury 0 grandpa complaining about his back all day during each attack

[kindred sonnet]

the windup timing isnt the problem, its that with FO2 i sometimes feel like there isnt enough time to dodge his 3 hit combos fully with only 1 dash, and he also has very little endlag after the combo so i cant really get a good punish in, since the main way of dealing big damage here is through omega moves (usually) and those take time to charge

[bright token]

yeah omegas in general are very underwhelming in this game at high end for now
you can't play them vs chronos without sorceress

[kindred sonnet]

also on a separate note, any tips on staying under TD3 in this? i follow all the obvious speedrun strats from hades 1 like taking free rooms/chaos etc but i still usually end up at about 21 min

[limpid coral]

there isn't enough time to dodge his 3 hit combos fully with only 1 dash
there is enough time between each attack to dash -> attack -> dash -> attack -> dash

[limpid coral]

what would you say your typical splits are? (igt on region entry)

[bright token]

unfortunately no real general tips. i also struggled with 5 min timer a lot until i learned to reduce my dmg avoidance to the point it doesn't affect timer as much

basically you have to be constantly in combat and only avoid dmg with repositions and dodges between enemies

[limpid coral]

bro wtf I just got a room 1 with 2 of the big charging enemies and 1 crab ????????????????????????????????

[kindred sonnet]

4:30, 8, 14:30, 21

[limpid coral]

literally how is this a valid room 1 when 3 chargers a lurker and 1904 hippos is valid

[bright token]

i assume crab is a random replacement for the big white pile os smth

[limpid coral]

enemy weights are so broken

(that is an amazing name)
I am calling those things Piles from now on

[kindred sonnet]

is this only for if he does 3 swings? or can you do it if he does a dash as well?

[cursive oyster]

if you really struggle for time in tartarus, stop taking dad, he makes the rest of tartarus longer because of biome depth

[limpid coral]

if you want to beat timer better take droplet into fields and antler into tart. or really just get hitch and play better

[limpid coral]

whether its a dash or a slash it does not change the timing at all

[kindred sonnet]

wait rlly? i always thought the dash was faster, i guess i was not paying enough attention

[limpid coral]

it probably seems faster because when he does 2 slash + dash the dash has like zero telegraph besides him standing up after the second slash for some silly reason

but the timing is the same

[bright token]

4:30 and 8 is a very good split start

14:30 feels like way too much for fields. are you taking bossrooms always? how much time do you spend on cerb?

[kindred sonnet]

tart rooms themselves arent too bad, but chronos takes like 2:30 on his own

[cursive oyster]

ah

[limpid coral]

that is pretty common for chronos

[cursive oyster]

yeah chronos sucks for timer

[bright token]

also what fear are we talking?

[kindred sonnet]

ive only done up to like 24

[bright token]

2:30 for chronos isn't bad at all

[kindred sonnet]

theres no stubborn defiance in this so i dont know how to do 32

[limpid coral]

take it away Engraved Pin enjoyers

[cursive oyster]

moros keepsake is your stubborn defiance

[bright token]

overall tart room timers can be reduced but i'd look into mourning fields firstly
you might be misplaying the build making a little bit

[kindred sonnet]

ive tried it but it feels really bad compared to stubborn and it takes your keepsake slot

[limpid coral]

well, what keepsakes do you take otherwise

[cursive oyster]

still the best defensive keepsake in the game

[limpid coral]

if you are looking for hp

[bright token]

engraved pin is a good way to reduce your timers with going recklessly. but you have to know the game pretty well to know when to use those 10 secs

[kindred sonnet]

also another thing with the pin is if you sometimes misread how many waves are supposed to be in a room (i sometimes do when its a lot of unarmoured enemies) you pop it early and lose the DD

[bright token]

also i really recommend strength in arcana paired with engraved pin
when you are in fields you almost always have 200 hp already. which means the pin restores your hp to sub 30% of your health and you already have strength active to go even more recklessly

[bright token]

that's what i meant by knowing the game

strength, engraved pin, aphro weak and heph armor + condition allow you to ignore a lot of danger and focus on clearing speed

also one important thing that can ease up the run, and it's not brought up frequently, is hermes's enemy projectile speed reduction. if you get -50% most projectle attacks become trivial, and there is a lot fo them in the game

[limpid coral]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/885007146981396480/1273275875353301073/image.png?ex=66be0611&is=66bcb491&hm=bd05398eec52c85ae4b27240e2ee0ba84fd28038b3e214856e8c4bbab1ca9ff3& 4:14 erebus, I actually thought this oceanus sucked, no midboss or chaos and some 3 wave hippo rooms but it was fast ig

[elfin ivy]

Ayy! Glad I could be of service

[elfin ivy]

90 Magick primed

I'd have quit by now 💔

[limpid coral]

why

[kindred sonnet]

1 other big thing I currently dont fully understand in this game is how to make really strong builds, because i dont understand how to apply some of the gods correctly and also dont have knowledge of classic bread and butter builds like ZAP eris, ME, mirage shot beo etc.
Like how exactly are you supposed to make zeus work? Or hephaestus? are they just supposed to be put on the attack if you are a special build and vice versa? When is a hestia attack or special actually useful? Why would I ever take apollo when hera has better multipliers, gain, and a better curse unless im running a cast build?

[limpid coral]

uh Apollo cores arent great you are right
Blinding sprint is good, lucid gain is charon's core

Blitz and heph blast go on a thing that does little damage by itself (Medea special, Moros special, Blades special, Staff special)

[kindred sonnet]

Also sorry for flooding the chat with so many (probably stupid) questions, but it really frustrates me that Im so lacking in this game when I was pretty decent at the prequel which is one of my favorite games of all time and i really want to get better

[limpid coral]

are you clicking vow of commotion

[kindred sonnet]

which one is that

[limpid coral]

more enemies in each fight

[kindred sonnet]

ah no ofc not

jury summons is a stupid heat choice, not worth at all

[limpid coral]

ok good

uh if you're failing 20 minute timer without commotion then something is going wrong with how you are approaching rooms in general

builds are super weapon dependent

though in general the easiest builds to get going are just basic attack spam put hera or hestia on attack

got a sub 6 fields entry!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/885007146981396480/1273281179826782228/image.png?ex=66be0b01&is=66bcb981&hm=e61a671ff53732b7cef13504c0638252cfbea4ff1d0abe194a4ad51b32bd92f0&

10:06 into tart :V pretty dead

15:13, pretty bad tart

[fallen sonnet]

I usually go that rout, put apollo on Axe though...and yeah that's pretty good

[limpid coral]

what does this mean

[fallen sonnet]

ah! sorry new to the server.

yeah hera/hestia attack boon is great on basically anything and is my go to.
But apollo attack boon on axe and you're hitting half the area on every attack is incredibly fun.

I apologize for not being clear

[elfin ivy]

I think you just need to give it time and you'll understand the special appeal of each Boon eventually. Boons are much more situational this time around, but the correct choices make them much more impactful.
Apollo might not seem like the best, but with any weapon that involves AOE damage his Boons can really make a difference. Apollo on the axe specifically can be pretty insane if you use it in some of the tinier rooms in Oceanus and Erebus (even though I ultimately prefer Aphrodite on the Axe because her base percentages are way higher that Apollo's)
Hestia is also a very special case. At first it just seems like a slower (and therefor crappier) Hangover, but I generally recommend it on anything that has a high hit frequency. Hestia on the Blades is an awesome start because combined with a dash strike, one hit sequence alone is around 7 hits and from my understanding, Scorch has no stack limit unlike Hangover. Scorch is also a good pick for the Cast if you wanna inflict a whole group and take advantage of the Origination card by combining it with a separate curse

Imo if you don't understand the builds in this game yet, then don't really worry about it for now. I think half the fun of it is learning it naturally and getting unexpected results from experimentation

[pseudo sequoia]

usually id recommend hera attack because hitch is just way too good on most weapons but i can't deny the fun factor of apollo attack on than axe, it's very amusing

"room clearer" is an understatement when my weapon is the size of the room!!

[elfin ivy]

So true. I'm pretty sure you could reach Chronos himself with one swing from the Crossroads

[bright token]

didn't play the 1st game so sry if i say smth obvious but here is how it's in h2:

dmg comprises from flat sources, %dmg bonuses applied to them and rare crit stat

• so the core of your build will always be a balance between flat dmg sources and +%dmg applied to them
• origination and furies arcana are very strong because it's ones of the few global %dmg you can get and have control over
• a lot of weapons might feel strong in the first 2 floors but fall off hard in 3rd and 4th because of enemy (and especially boss) hp scaling, while you already ran out of obvious sources of buffing up your dmg
• if you are playing 32 fear and below, then for most weapons just a good core attack/special boon, pomed a few times, paired with two statuses from dash and cast boons will give you enough dmg to beat the game. especially if you play moros torches
• as a good baseline pairing i suggest getting hestia cast with zeus, hera, aphro or apollo attack/special. in two latter cases you need weak or daze applied from the sprint boons
• be on the lookout for duo boons. hestia + zeus, hestia + hera, hestia + aphro, zeus + aphro, demeter + hestia all give decent bump to your flat dmg sources
• i really advice to focus on regular attacks or specials for learning the game. omega moves are a little underwhelming overall, they require additional investments in mana, and most importantly they don't get any benefit from the strongest value dmg arcana - huntress

[spare kite]

@past harness #h2-feedback message embryo already has a 4* fwiw, gives heroics

Is god keepsakes + echo who don't

[past harness]

I might be stupid.

[elfin ivy]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1038835158729621626/1273324674318602342/image.png?ex=66be3383&is=66bce203&hm=ee5eac3ef8dfcf13015aaa779607aa02307eacff152fa14d2862f80ff8f8ef88&
"Stupid Princess what is a skull gonna do?"

The Rocket Bombard in my back pocket:

[slate crow]

can someone tell me a good build? any weapon, doesn't matter, just need a good build I can stick to

[civic ocean]

100 push-ups
100 sit-ups
100 squats
a 10 km run

don't turn the AC on in the summer, don't turn the heat on in winter

don't skip breakfast, even just a banana is fine

[elfin ivy]

Here are some of the combos I personally had a lotta fun with:

• Hearth/Glamour Gain on Blades. The Magick restoration is so constant, you may as well have hacked the Magick bar
• Zeus on either the Torches' Special or Attack (preferably Special) evaporates bosses. Use Moros Torches for some sweet AOE too
• Aphrodite on literally anything that has you close to the enemies. Blades Attack, Skull Special and Axe Attack are my favs
• Getting either Hook Knives or Dancing Knives for the Blades (or both if you're lucky enough) with Hera on the Special is diabolical. In my experience, it straightup one-hits the armor off of Tartarus goons
• Psychic Whirlwind + Furious Whirlwind is as broken as the Axe has been for me. Furious makes the spin attack charge up insanely fast and Psychic allows you to keep attacking during the spin. Try to get Nimble Mind from Hermes too just so you can channel it oh so faster. Just make sure you either get a lotta max Magick or have good Magick restoration

[elfin ivy]

Holy cow it's Saitama

[civic ocean]

On a more serious note, I think if you want a solid build to easily win up to 32 fear I would recommend going Triple Water

Poseidon+Demeter+Aphrodite gives you a good mix of power, control, and scaling, and Hearty Appetite+Water Fitness+Frosty Veneer is a very powerful combo

[slate crow]

what weapon and what boons should be going on what thing (attack, special, cast...)

[elfin ivy]

Frosty Veneer my beloved

[slate crow]

you're speaking a foreign language to me lol I dont understand 🤣

[civic ocean]

pretty much anything you want, if the weapon attacks faster take Poseidon start and go for Wave Strike, if it attacks slower take Aphrodite start and take Flutter Strike

Every weapon is usually strong with its attack

For cast go for Arctic Ring for freeze

Then just make sure to take the components for Hearty Appetite and then keep taking boons that scale your HP and give you Water elements

[slate crow]

icl im incredibly confused

could you just write it as a list

example:
weapon: staff
aspect: melenoe

attack: poseidon
special: zeus

[civic ocean]

yeah gimme a sec

[slate crow]

np thank you bro I'm just not really accustomed to the names of boons yet so it's just not making sense to me

[elfin ivy]

Honestly we could go on for hours because there're so many ways and possibilities to get a good build
I always tell people to just go ahead and learn stuff naturally because that's a good chunk of the fun and then worry about good builds when they know all the intricacies around it

[slate crow]

there's too much stuff in this game to understand

all these seeds and the 1000000000000000 different materials in and of itself is incredibly confusing and annoying

especially when there's no codex to tell us where to get the mats

[wise idol]

use your inventory

it tells you where to find each resource

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSm2KltkfvUcVAxeqa8TE1Ix1N1u5I2bgC94rUjXs1tegyOZoeVM0H_JVuyNDEmYB5Sl-CxCTA7FLlV/pubhtml

[slate crow]

thank you

[slate crow]

you don't restore any health tho how do u even manage lol

[civic ocean]

When you gain max health, from the hearts, or Water Fitness, your current health is also increased by the same amount, so it's a sort of pseudo-healing that Scars doesn't affect.

[magic moss]

we are now at 185 unique 50F clears, 15 more before we hit 200
Clear #100 was obtained 7/19/2024

[slate crow]

ahhh makes sense

[civic ocean]

I wonder how many moon starts, I know you don't track it

[slate crow]

no way it's THAT hard???????????

it's been half a year and not even 200 55f clears?

[civic ocean]

that's 50

[slate crow]

even worse

[civic ocean]

nobody has done 55 yet. I think I might have missed the boat to do it for staff, patch 3 would have been more possible I think

with old Mirrored Thrasher and Engagement Ring

[slate crow]

nobody?

[civic ocean]

One person did 55 with save states IIRC?

[slate crow]

tbh fair enough. I wouldn't put myself through that much pain

[magic moss]

55 has been cleared multiple times with save states

closest straight run was Foolish with Moros dying to chronos iirc

[past salmon]

I've done 55 in 2 segments

It's not that it's too hard it's that the sheer number of runs you have to do to even get the RNG required for the run to be possible is just unfun to play

[wise idol]

yeah rng is the issue at max fear, it was the same in h1 with max heat

[past salmon]

I havent tried 55F since I had a 2 hour straight session of resetting at room 3 because the game refused to give me the god boon I need to start a run

[slate crow]

also when u click give up it doesnt even reset the seed so it takes longer to do it

[civic ocean]

only two hours!? Cmonnn

[wise idol]

you die really fast at max fear lol

[shy harbor]

most ppl arent going to even try high fear runs
and a lot of ppl might struggle to do the run just with that single 5 fear vow let alone the other 50

[slate crow]

lol

[civic ocean]

Most people who do fear will stop at 32

[past salmon]

yeahh I don't have the mental fortitude to do the crackhead stuff you do

[civic ocean]

We should do a fusion dance

I have the mental but I'm not nearly as talented at the game so my good rng runs die because I make mistakes

[slate crow]

tbh doing 55f should be considered abuse

[past salmon]

😭

[civic ocean]

There's a couple other things that I think would fall under like

Difficult but fun? Like I think right now 47 seems like the ideal number to do stuff like winstreaks/volume

no onion, no abandon

[past salmon]

idk I think 50F winstreaks are fun

[civic ocean]

Yeah 50f is also there

Onion really sucks for build diversity but it is challenging while not feeling like you are completely beholden to RNG

Like mid rng is still winnable if you're sicknasty

[shy harbor]

do people rlly dislike onion that much or is it just pain high fear?
cause i think its one of the first vows i used

[past salmon]

I like onion but it is one of the hardest vows

[civic ocean]

Onion is pretty brutal mostly because Erebus is maybe one or two locations too long, so it compounds on everything else to have a slow start

[shy harbor]

that makes sense i guess
maybe when next update drops ill try doing some high fear runs
only really done 32 so far and that wasnt oo bad

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think I would probably win close to 90+% of my 32 fear runs at this point, and Foolish would probably win 99+%

[wise idol]

yeah ngl 50f has made 32 feel pretty easy to me lol

[civic ocean]

The trick with doing 32 volume would be to impose some challenges on yourself like only being able to use each keepsake once through your rotation of 5 and/or using every god at least twice or something like that

More fun builds and challenges than just trying to optimize for winning

or going for all weapons speedruns, etc

[slate crow]

@civic ocean how do you restore mana on your build?

the one u sent me

like it's really easy to have no more mana on a boss fight

[civic ocean]

the build doesn't use mana

you just use your basic attack

[slate crow]

ok no omega attacks ever?

[past salmon]

does it use mirrored tho

[civic ocean]

No I took it out of the guide

[civic ocean]

Yeah you can watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dwoND4B-dQ it's outdated but the gameplay is very similar

[slate crow]

ok

[civic ocean]

that one is scars 2 but scars 3 is better trust me, it's pretty outdated

[sage flame]

that's a good thumbnail

[torpid crane]

@worthy epoch I just lost in Tartarus with Persephone

Bag rooms after bag rooms

[worthy epoch]

Im so bad with pers idek how long its gonna take me

[fervent coyote]

I thought scars 3 was unviable without stubborn defiance

[magic moss]

scars3 is honestly one of the easier maxed vows

[fervent coyote]

what do you just farm centaur hearts and grab water fitness

[wise idol]

pin and/or dont get hit

[limpid coral]

every vow either

[fervent coyote]

PIN OF COURSE

[limpid coral]

• makes it harder to avoid damage
• makes you take less mistakes to die
• both

[fervent coyote]

revenants 🤗

[stuck ether]

Makes it harder to avoid damage bc it means more enemies or you have to focus on the revs

[fervent coyote]

idk ever since the last patch it’s become way easier to collect them w/o focusing them too hard

unless you turn jury summons on

or the equivalent

[civic ocean]

Pin, also hearts and DDs and preserved hope all bypass scars, as well as temp hp (armor) being not too hard to find

[stuck ether]

Breath of eros bypasses
Or usually idk if its still bugged

[civic ocean]

And at 32 fear, 2 fear is pretty valuable like the alternative is something like 2 stacks of blood or dominance either of which may result in you taking the difference in HP from healing anyways

Generally speaking you want to take as much fear as you can that doesn't have too much impact on the output of the enemies, with the exception of Fury since it's learnable and is also worth a bazillion fear

So think revenants, higher prices, panic, scars, the boon forgetting, the priming, etc

[stuck ether]

Just not onion

Well tou can take onion but you dont need to like at all

[torpid crane]

My opps won. Persephone has beat my ass

[worthy epoch]

i cant make it through erebus in 98% of my runs

debating abandon no timer rn

[stuck ether]

Mom aspect is mean

[cursive oyster]

unfortunately you still have a 9 minute timer even with abandon

[worthy epoch]

omg so true

this is so messed up

[fervent coyote]

Also CP is way more viable in this game than the last right or is it just as bad

[cursive oyster]

still terrible

[cursive oyster]

oh wait i mixed it up with jury summons, calisthenics program feels better in this

[spare kite]

Being 3 fear makes it feel a lot better

[cursive oyster]

also things deal more damage this game

[fervent coyote]

also is second stack vow of wandering worth it because for some reason it feels miserable

[cursive oyster]

hippos will do that to you but i still run it at 32 at least

[limpid coral]

its 2 points and it makes erebus go from bad to awful

if u don't have onion its fine

[spare kite]

I need to meet whoever came up with the hippos idea

[cursive oyster]

and crabs

[torpid crane]

I want to fight whoever designed those hippos

[cursive oyster]

you don’t see many crabs in erebus because they replace the root thingies but they SUCK when you do see em

[stuck ether]

Crabs are fine but annoying
Hippos are just hell

[torpid crane]

Nothing hurts my will to live more than a hippo swim all the way to the spot I came in from just bc I didn’t kill it on the spot

[spare kite]

Yeah crabs is more of a "just hurry"
Hippos make me sad

[cursive oyster]

crabs with axe

[torpid crane]

with skull

[fervent coyote]

crabs and hippos are bad but for some reason it’s those damn charging sh*ts when they appear in oceanus that REALLY get me

with forced overtime 2 on I mean

[stuck ether]

I use than axe idk ur pain

[torpid crane]

Oceanus might have the worst enemies

[stuck ether]

Tartarus.

[torpid crane]

Sop Spindles are the worst

[spare kite]

The ballistic missiles are annoying af

[limpid coral]

Oceanus has charging enemies? Or do u mean the guys from fields

[stuck ether]

I think they mean fields

[cursive oyster]

i did my than axe 50

[fervent coyote]

I meant the guy from fields with vow of wandering on

[torpid crane]

My problem with Tartarus has more to do with how many enemies spawn rather than the enemies themselves

[stuck ether]

I didnt (i stopped playing the game and when i do its fun runs/surgace runs)

[cursive oyster]

fair

[stuck ether]

Im really liking the surface now (except polyphemus shockwave spam)

[torpid crane]

Sometimes I wonder if I’m being a karen or if the enemies in this game just make everyone else want to pull their hair out and this discussion is validating

[fervent coyote]

no enemies in this game are definitely more annoying than in 1

[stuck ether]

Nah theres multiple enemies like that

[spare kite]

There's a lot more enemies that make me sigh here lmao

[limpid coral]

nah a few just exist to waste time

[spare kite]

In 1 is either through bp effects or hating the biome as a whole

(screw elysium)

[fervent coyote]

Also this is probably a skill issue but the erebus sorrowspinner’s animation pisses me off

Like its sweep attack is so ambiguous

[stuck ether]

Dont forget ground slam bugging and hitting not where its aimed

[torpid crane]

My issue with that thing is when it does the slam and it hits me even when I’m behind and nowhere near it

[cursive oyster]

it always alternates between a slam and sweep, after it does its slam just get behind it and you’re safe

[torpid crane]

I lost a dd to it and during the slow-mo I was far behind it and it hit in front

[cursive oyster]

i was about to say its the worst miniboss but then i remembered serpent exists

[fervent coyote]

i hate that other fields guy more than serpent

[spare kite]

Would changing the adds make serpent feel better

[fervent coyote]

serpent you can consistently nuke

[cursive oyster]

i do not mind serpent adds i hate that it runs away and spams near instant melee attacks

[torpid crane]

Sop Spindles though.. I swear those guys need a nerf. Their laser is TOO LONG, especially when there can be 20 of them and some of the levels are COMPACT

[cursive oyster]

the issue is that the small enemies have so little weight

[torpid crane]

Serpent feels incredibly free on the axe, but everything else is pure pain unless you have mint c

[cursive oyster]

even when armored

[stuck ether]

I like shadow more than the other one bc i cant always dps the other one

[stuck ether]

He so lets do 75 serpents bc theyre not a lurker and if its not a lurker it doesnt have weight

[torpid crane]

I get that I have encounters maxed.. but like 5 waves of enemies is too much

[cursive oyster]

oceanus rooms take either five seconds or a minute there is no in between

[stuck ether]

You know
I could deal with 5 waves. It each wave didnt have 10+ enemies

[spare kite]

How does wandering play into the weight actually
Do the deeper biome enemies have higher weight in general

[limpid coral]

as far as i can tell the waves are generated and then wandering is rolled

[stuck ether]

I think it just has a chance yo replace x enemy with x enemy.
So a sop-spindel in erebus would replace a reg spindel but not take anymore weight

[torpid crane]

I got 3 hippos in the starting room of erebus

Absolute painful experience

[spare kite]

Makes sense but ew

[stuck ether]

Ik erebus enemy swaps are
Spindels -> sop spindels
The spinners -> oceanus spinners
Casket -> hippos
The one big guy -> lurker
Stationary trees -> crabs

[torpid crane]

@worthy epoch I think this is far worse than pan

[worthy epoch]

gotta give it some more time but this is bottom two so far for sure

pan was reaaaaaally bad for me though

what are you starting with for keepsake/arcana

[torpid crane]

Pan was bad for me in the luck department, but if I got wicked onslaught or final slice, I was guaranteed to get out of erebus. Persephone feels like it requires way more for me to just make it out of erebus

[worthy epoch]

pers def requires a lot more room luck

[torpid crane]

I like shard rn for anvil cast into omega cast to clear rooms though the boss damage falls off unless I get good hammers