h2-builds-and-combat

[steel sequoia]

its good on staff and blades too, just axe and skulls that are kinda weird

[past salmon]

It's good on Mel skulls if U picked up possessed

[tender anvil]

Showerthought - making Abandon vow tiered instead of binary conflicts with the current design of Judgement. Else all “reduced grasp” runs just become Judgement runs

[steel sequoia]

i do think some crazy people like that way, but they should rework imo

[wise idol]

this is fixed by making it reduce the tier of card by 1 per level, and at max all cards are turned off

[tender anvil]

that's a smart way to do it I guess, I like your suggestion!

[tender anvil]

I just died to p2.2. Chronos on 51 Abandon. Like, it's good in the sense that now I know I can do it even with a subpar build, but also extremely disheartening

[tall notch]

Well done! The furthest I made it with abandon was Erebus miniboss

[warped harness]

whats p2.2?

[tall notch]

the part of Chronos fight where he spawns hourglasses

[warped harness]

ah i hate that phase

oh can i ask you how to make eos work /w the daybreaker

[silent crow]

go next to enemies

[tall notch]

Click Hera, get either her attack or engagement ring to spread hitch (ER is probably stronger right now but if you don't wanna abuse it the attack is really good too) and stack some % scaling for your attack so that the daybreaker can do single target damage too

Hitch is really good with the daybreaker, you spread it all over the place and become really good at clearing

Also channel speed is your best friend

[silent crow]

the fun way to play eos is to use pos special and create blue balls

[warped harness]

how abt for bossing? i struggled a lot /w cerb and chronos even on an ER build

[tall notch]

That's where attack % scaling helps

Also when's the last time you play it? It became a lot better at bossing with patch 3

[warped harness]

i think last night

[tall notch]

If you want, you can also click Zeus special and spam omegas when the daybreaker is out and sits on a target

[warped harness]

i didnt have a gain boon, which was probably my issue since it meant all my damage was from the normal attacks /w apollo ER

[silent crow]

u can fix ur single target damage with a high damage cast

purple hestia cast or storm ring are good

[tall notch]

Ohhh, I forgot, get unseen to cover your mana needs entirely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqJhpEMbtvo this might be helpful to you

[warped harness]

the arcana card?

[silent crow]

idk what fear ur playing tho so highrollinh for good cast might not be possible

[warped harness]

low-ish fear at 24

getting comfortable /w it before i do 32 and then 40/50

[tall notch]

If you have unseen, you don't need regen even if you have weed killer

[silent crow]

ahh then ig its good to learn high fear strats now

u can still kinda mess around tho bc eos is a very safe autoplay aspect

[tall notch]

Another thing you can use to help your single target damage are hexes. Don't ignore Selene on Eos, especially since unseen will activate moon for you

[warped harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/422149143205773315/1260974942896525312/image.png?ex=669145ee&is=668ff46e&hm=fd918dcf8752b7f1e12e0103239e8ee3a5600b1021bd4d7e28dff161dbceb9da&

[silent crow]

sorceress does nothing

[warped harness]

is that a solid setup for it or are there better cuts

[tall notch]

Replace sorceress with wayward son or messenger

[silent crow]

other than sorceress yeah thats solid

[tall notch]

Or sorceress+furies for artificer

[warped harness]

i have half healing so i think wayward would be like useless

[tall notch]

Fair, i didn't know your vow setup. Thought you might have scars 0 since it's 24f

[silent crow]

i think wayqard is still good on half healing but messenger would do the trick anyway

[warped harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/422149143205773315/1260975400071331880/image.png?ex=6691465b&is=668ff4db&hm=ef19f7e6ab5b0453dcb39cd05c8610d7055303a3b52912f4a906ff53741bc2aa&

[tall notch]

If you want to prep for high fear I'd suggest the artificer way

[silent crow]

3dom is rough on eos

[tall notch]

Panic is very clickable with unseen

[silent crow]

do panic and price increase x2

[warped harness]

over 3 dom?

[silent crow]

mhm

[tall notch]

Wait why's wandering only on 1

[silent crow]

u have to get used to 270 cost boons for high fear anyway

[silent crow]

oh 😭

[warped harness]

idk i just got reccomended that 💀

[tall notch]

Most people I know would recommend wandering 2

[warped harness]

i had a setup that people said was nearly 32 fear difficulty

bc i had rebuke and enemy spawns up

[tall notch]

I'd suggest turning up wandering and getting rid of scars at the 24f level

[warped harness]

wait so how would i get artificer and unseen

[tall notch]

Furies off
Sorceress off
That's the 3 grasp you need for artificer

I turned off titan instead of furies in my 50f but apparently that's a hot take so I won't recommend it

[warped harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/422149143205773315/1260980349459238952/image.png?ex=66914af7&is=668ff977&hm=e6811b24583e9ff36bffe5e4b5ed170a0e52e76792eef5ad27a423b193557744& which is a better choice here?

clean candle has insanely good omega cast reduction but the attack up feels more valueable

[tall notch]

Clean Candle unless you happen to have a lot of omega channel speed from somewhere else

[tired fulcrum]

30% additive isnt that much tbh

[warped harness]

beat chronos with the wrong stuff but ill know for the future now ty

[jagged quarry]

is there a video/article/wtv talking about the different daedalus upgrades? I sometimes am a bit intrigued on their usage and stats.

[civic ocean]

Information about them is burned into my brain but nothing concrete written and nothing with stats

Something to keep in mind with a lot of this stuff is that we're all experiencing the game at different levels with different goals and different ways to play

[robust prism]

yeah I was thinking each level would have to reduce grasp by say 6 and the number of cards activated by judgement by 1 or something along those lines. just reducing the levels of the arcanas would be more straightforward but also more boring imo

[civic ocean]

Hot take: Abandon shouldn't affect Judgement

[tender anvil]

I'd love that tbh. But it would decrease the challenge sharply

[civic ocean]

I feel like it would still be heckin hard

[robust prism]

I don't like that it would make all the high fear runs even more rng dependent than they already are

[tall notch]

I think a vow no one ever picks unless they have nothing left needs to have its challenge decreased

[civic ocean]

Would it? With Judgement you get something, currently you get NOTHING

[bleak night]

Main issue with Abandon is that Mel without Altar is way weaker than Zag without mirror

[robust prism]

well yes it should be changed obviously current abandon sucks lol

[civic ocean]

Break this down for the crowd

[robust prism]

but I don't think leaving you with only judgement is a great solution to that

[pine patio]

Yeah the thing with Vow of Abandon is it's really not something I imagine you need to take to increase Fear, if you wanna do that you take other things. And if it's purely about the challenge they should just let you turn them all off on your own

So it just feels like a vow to avoid

[civic ocean]

The problem is that you will functionally be mandating judgement runs with almost any application of Grasp reduction due to the vow, like as soon as you get to 3 cards only boom ur a judgement run

[bleak night]

For one thing, your HP is 30 rather than 50 and your MP is 50, which means you need to scale and a lot of aspects thrive on being able to slow down time to charge stuff up. Those are just non-existent with that Vow turned on. Not to mention that Panic with Abandon will turn Charon into the most worthless aspect in the game

[civic ocean]

Personally I think it exists to make max Fear currently near-impossible until more Fear is added

Because if they made Abandon any easier we'd beat it

[tall notch]

Omg i was about to say the same thing

[bleak night]

Pretty much, yeah. It's there to stop for now

[robust prism]

2 possible solutions that don't do that were just proposed so no

[civic ocean]

What were they again

[bleak night]

The way it is rn, you have way too low HP to be able to tank anything with two vows existing to delete your HP as efficiently as possible

[tall notch]

Someone suggested it would remove levels from your arcana cards i think

[robust prism]

1. Reduce levels of arcanas instead of grasp
2. Reduce grasp and also reduce the number of cards that judgement activates with each level

[civic ocean]

Well 1 is just like way too easy right

[bleak night]

Not that tanking things is the way to go, but a single mistake shouldn't end your run. Trusty Shield becomes too centralizing as a result

If you watch 64H Hades 1 runs, they can tank stuff

[civic ocean]

Isn't that because they can block

[bleak night]

Rama and Guan Yu runs tank stuff as well

[civic ocean]

Ah kk

[robust prism]

well it should probably be like 2 + 3 + 7 fear or something

[bleak night]

Guan Yu can heal it off, but the Rama one def was able to tank a few

[tall notch]

Wait guan yu cleared 64h???

[civic ocean]

This is mostly because of the crit right

[bleak night]

Only Zeus Shield has done it unmodded, but Guan Yu and Rama have, yeah. Tbh modded runs are still real to me, they're just pretty much seeded

[civic ocean]

Like mel can't handle her mirror being turned off because her enemies can crit

[bleak night]

Still showcases skill

[bleak night]

Which crit

[tall notch]

112!

[civic ocean]

Suffering

If there was no suffering we could start frinos and live like 2-4 hits depending on the enemy right

Im wondering if I have to start frinos anyways for Hecate at 55

[bleak night]

I gotta say, things just hurt a lot more in this game

[bleak night]

You need Toula too much to bring Frinos, sadly. Frinos for sure is better at 50F, but Toula is mandatory for 51+

It allows you to make one extra mistake

[magic moss]

theres a lot more attack diversity as well imo, its just overall harder to dodge in h2 than h1

[civic ocean]

Im actually wondering what is easier:

Not getting hit by something that can kill me on a god luck run

Or dodging the hecate curse

Without runner

[bleak night]

What makes H1 enemies feel a lot less overbearing is you can cut down projectiles

[tender anvil]

Hecate curse is fine without runner

[civic ocean]

I mean

[tender anvil]

you can get used to it. Dodging it while also applying ER - that's a challenge

[civic ocean]

And dodging the attacks

[warped harness]

nobody at all has beaten 55? just been close?

[bleak night]

I'll just stick to 50F max until they add more stuff to the Oath. Abandon is just the most unfun thing on the planet

[civic ocean]

Honestly maybe it's good to just burn the toula DD at hecate

[magic moss]

closest so far is foolish making it to tart and Mynt dying to chronos iirc

[civic ocean]

Nobody is like actively trying atm right

[bleak night]

Nothing like Chronos doing a brand new move during a 55F fight

[civic ocean]

Huh

[magic moss]

Borons trying 51 foolish is occasionally doing 55 runs and thats bout it

[bleak night]

He did a Zigzag with his rush

[civic ocean]

In one rush?

I've seen him zigzag in the 1 2 3 rush

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1255749358494810162/sad.mp4?ex=669160f9&is=66900f79&hm=cb23f44ed308c56d3ff7f4295ecc9eb27df171992b84321c09af5278c8aeb4bf&

I didn't expect it at all, I even had Nitro Boost still up

[civic ocean]

Wait what's odd about that

[tall notch]

poor girl 😦

[magic moss]

im surprised you havent seen the zigzag until then im ngl

[bleak night]

He doesn't usually do that

[civic ocean]

Wdym thats the 3 charge

[bleak night]

He ran past me instead of at me

[tall notch]

this is the same person who didn't know you could stop cerb by putting down your cast

[bleak night]

Then rushed back toward me

The first one was predicting I'd dash there, so I went backward

[silent crow]

i didnt know that either

[bleak night]

I have never seen a predicting rush

The rushes usually come at me directly

[civic ocean]

Are you sure he was predicting and not just dashing to where you were when he started up the charge and was slowed or smth?

[bleak night]

Look at the first rush. He rushes toward the location before I'm even there

[civic ocean]

Because that clip looks pretty regular to me for 1.3 Chronos

[bleak night]

It's like he cut me off

[silent crow]

wait cant u kill him during the pin timer and phase 2 will restore your DD

[civic ocean]

No

[bleak night]

I didn't know that was a thing yet

[civic ocean]

Oh can you?

[bleak night]

This was day 1 of patch 3, so

[silent crow]

aww unfortunate

[civic ocean]

Oh damn that makes that fight a lot easier

[magic moss]

it counts as clearing the encounter so you get the 60 hp back but you cant proc it again p2

[civic ocean]

Ohhhh okay nvm then

But im still confused by the clip

[silent crow]

u dont get the 10s invuln for phase 2 tho which is still kinda rough

[civic ocean]

After the first charge, which was wack, you didn't expect him to charge towards you the 2nd charge?

[magic moss]

my working theory is that it procs since you change locations so the game thinks you cleared the encounter but because the guardian is still the same the reset for the pin isnt flagged

[bleak night]

Also, Dex just posted an Advancing Whirlwind 50F Than run where 90% of the damage dealt was with Omega Attacks

[civic ocean]

Beast

[bleak night]

So that's kinda interesting to see it being so effective

[civic ocean]

People are getting so sicknasty its great

[bleak night]

@magic moss list him in there ig https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FTER_W7Qg6U

He ran Unseen, too

[silent crow]

damn this guys voice is hot

[bleak night]

[civic ocean]

We have a lot of hot voices in this community huge

[magic moss]

thats wild

[bleak night]

Can't relate lol

My voice is weird

[silent crow]

the high lvl players need sex appeal 😔

[tall notch]

I like that East guy who plays air fryer

[civic ocean]

Haven't played air fryer in a while sadge

[bleak night]

My Pan video did Air Fryer, it was nice

[civic ocean]

Will stream soon big stuff going on at work atm

[bleak night]

It had Support Fire as well

[magic moss]

axe is actually 1 less clear below staff now

[civic ocean]

But my stream is gonna start pushing 55 so might not be fun to watch

[bleak night]

Was wondering why Skull wasn't up there but I realized Medea is cancer in 50F and Pers just doesn't attract a lot of attention

[magic moss]

https://pastebin.com/8hsMytHR updated pastebin

[bleak night]

When did we hit 63

Weren't we at just 50 like 2 days ago

[civic ocean]

15 players

(That we know of)

That's like 99.7th percentile of all players.

[bleak night]

Oh did Boat3d clear Mel Staff before you guys?

Now count non-unique clears and give Foolish 120 (100 from Moros)

[civic ocean]

Well the title of the sheet is "unique clears"

[silent crow]

moros 50f must be easier than medea 32f at this point

[civic ocean]

Idk 32 seems...hmm

Mynt do you think someone could do 32 fear fresh file

I think it's possible?

[bleak night]

Do we just change that to 60F when EM drops lol

[warped harness]

EM?

[civic ocean]

I think we try EM first right

[bleak night]

Wdym 32 fresh file

[warped harness]

did they announce a new vow?

[civic ocean]

Like modded so that you can start a new game with 32f worth of stuff turned on

[bleak night]

Nopr, but people just expect it anyway

[warped harness]

so what is em?

oh extreme measures 💀

[bleak night]

Unsure, honestly. Might need to try that out should someone make a mod for it

[silent crow]

imagine they bring back EM and its worth 5 fear in total

[bleak night]

Yep. Seems like a shoe-in

[warped harness]

its been a while since ive played hades mb

[civic ocean]

I'm wondering about Middle Management, too.

[silent crow]

em4 is 2 fear

[warped harness]

i dont wanna think about middle management buffed snake lady from erebus

[civic ocean]

Extreme Measures is interesting because it presumes that the surface will have 4 biomes or at least 4 Guardians

[silent crow]

middle management is kinda weird in my head bc all the midbosses suck

[limpid coral]

btw is mels hitbox a tall rectangle or a square/circle

[warped harness]

its a circle no?

[limpid coral]

cause ngl the 112!s are typically from above

[warped harness]

tall rectangle would be legitimately evil

nah its absolutely a circle

[magic moss]

i took a break from 50Fs after clearing mel axe and started trying to incorporate more omega moves so i didnt really try to go for a clear, the run i cleared was incredibly scuffed and honestly im surprised i even cleared lmfao

[bleak night]

Randomizer runs time?

[civic ocean]

We could do bingo

[vital ledge]

I hope they make chronos as impossible as super dad. first attempt at hades em4 was amazing

[magic moss]

later

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1254752406911057921/1260806783136436374/image.png?ex=66915211&is=66900091&hm=a8d6d8203102c828783b32decf0058b700c1feaa4187d55dd939d82ff0e43817&

Yes, I lost all my dds

Tbf you would as well https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1254752406911057921/1260806784365363240/image.png?ex=66915212&is=66900092&hm=5f7cc78ce278f7532f3764d9cff97b2febdc2cb3e3ae5c0eea43765de0624cf3&

[civic ocean]

I really liked EM4 Hades and used to fight him as strong as possible

Faster, more health, more damage, etc

[vital ledge]

could only beat him with 20% extra speed heh. trying to do it with 40% made me play the first game way longer than it should. which is a good thing, enjoyed every second of getting my ass handed to me. 🙂

[civic ocean]

I got up to around 28 heat or something progressing from 10 upwards 1 heat at a time with each weapon, so I probably killed EM4 Hades something like 105-108 times?

It's my favourite fight in video games, for sure.

[magic moss]

i stopped at 24H going em3 max when i played h1 and never turned off godmode so ive never experienced em4 dad

[civic ocean]

I don't really know how to explain it, he's just really, really fun to fight?

Was very difficult but never felt unfair the way that early Chronos did

I still feel like all of the slowing effects just not working on Chronos at all at first, while on one hand it's great storytelling and makes the player feel a certain way, it does weaken the player vs game feeling substantially

EM4 in Hades 2 is gonna be weird though because the implication in Hades 1 is that Hades is holding back against you, and EM4 is giving him permission to not do that, but it doesn't really make any narrative sense for Chronos to be doing that

[vital ledge]

they come up with a good excuse probably

[civic ocean]

I am expecting some kind of twist, the narrative doesn't really line up with the gameplay atm

[vital ledge]

am I the only one who get's hit more by chronos since we can slow him down?
I dodge too early half the time now

[warped harness]

yeah theres no way to tie up the narrative and keep chronos the way he is unless he and his counterpart for the surface are like forced into a prison that mel has to constantly check on or smth

[civic ocean]

That is inside the house?

That's the weird part for me. Like presumably if Chronos is defeated, the House of Hades will go back to normal - so there must be a twist somewhere, or it will be an unsatisfying ending in that respect

[warped harness]

im excited to see how they approach it

[uneven palm]

I'd be excited for some form of extreme measures but you know they're gonna throw 40000 Tempus spawns in there

[silent crow]

invincible goldwraith turrets

[civic ocean]

Phase 1.4 is two minibosses instead of two armored enemies

[uneven palm]

all his golden orbs? Tempus

[tired fulcrum]

Fo2 cerby summon without pause buffering is

[glass tapir]

I'm excited for EM because it probably means we get another siren song

[tired fulcrum]

Em4 chronos summons tempuses in every phase

[uneven palm]

That Cerby summon was hell to play but also super rad

[limpid coral]

chronos summons the sirens to perform again

[vale gate]

i assume the tornado attack thingy will gain a shock wave

[silent crow]

dude why does that fight have a phase 1.4 😭

[civic ocean]

Eris has like a phase 1.5 lol

[warped harness]

yea its toxic as hell

theres like, the first 3 quarters of health gone

then 10% which is just hell

[carmine lagoon]

Oooo how do I get rando runsss

[bleak night]

https://www.nexusmods.com/hades2/mods/28

[keen solar]

best builds/gods for persephone skull?

[silent crow]

storm ring hera special i think

u can use unseen arcana for mana regen

[muted laurel]

Poseidon cast also good imo

Gives decent charges with a single cast

[keen solar]

ty both sm

[warped harness]

what vows do yall reccomend for 32 fear

i wanna push a little higher and unlock the last trophies from schele even if it means having to do 32 fear eris

[silent crow]

wandering 2 arrogance 2 fury 2 are all basically mandatory

and destitution 2

[magic moss]

i think fury2 isnt mandatory for 32F. its very good but i would argue not an absolute must have

[silent crow]

really

[magic moss]

yeah

[warped harness]

im pretty comfortable with fury 2 at this point

i dont think ive played the game for like 100 of my runs without it on even at like 6 heat where its just fury

[magic moss]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1249502882819215453/1258537897108312074/image.png?ex=6690fa01&is=668fa881&hm=e1f4d69778f897a26b3086a46929feebfd6800c7c0d0d3b6aa19e7e3de71a71e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1191&height=670 this is probably the easiest

you can go timer3 in exchange for less commotion/dominancce if u want

[warped harness]

no offense to you but im not ready for timer 3 no way

its just erebus is way too much

[silent crow]

thats ok u dont need to use it

[warped harness]

it only turns on once the 50 fear runs start 😭

[magic moss]

thats fine this setup is probbaly your best bet for a 32F then

[tall notch]

Scars 3?

I'll run scars 3 after higher fear experience and I'd recommend learning it early if someone wants to do 40f after, but if 32 is the highest someone's going I wouldn't recommend

[magic moss]

no timer3 so you could go scars2 for something else like rebuke and some more levels or smthing

but yeah if all you want is to clear, then scars2 with more commotion/dominance/rebuke is prob the play

revanents is just unfun

[tall notch]

Big asterisk on rebuke depending on your weapon. Some of them will chill with rebuke 2 while others don't even want rebuke 1 until much higher fear. Also, personally I'm a revenant 1 lover, these little green balls are adorable 🥺

[silent crow]

revenants are ugly

[tall notch]

Your rev hate is ugly

[silent crow]

stupid green people

[quasi wharf]

im in a run with sister blades, in the fields, i have an aphrodite boon that make my specials deal +250% dmg at ANY range thanks to a duo boon that makes aphrodite boons consider every enemy close, a chaos boon that make specials deal+85% and a hammer that makes specials come back

bosses are melting

[silent crow]

i hate medea on keyboard

[wise idol]

really? I suck at medea on controller but I shred with it on kbm

guess its just what im more used to

[silent crow]

the movement is soo ass

[tall notch]

I can see aiming the special feeling nice on mouse but tbh I hate Medea regardless of control scheme

[sudden belfry]

hmm
did the newest update (the 26th) really nerf or buff any of weapons

[wise idol]

not really, it was a boon balance patch

[plain fossil]

foolish plays medea on keyboard i have nfi how

[tall notch]

The balance changes overall buffed Melinoe and Eos also got heavily buffed by the improvements to its tracking

[plain fossil]

builds that require tight movement are so difficult to play on kbm

im much more comfortable on kbm with more static builds like charon/momus and with builds that can move in circles while dpsing like eos

[plain fossil]

directly or indirectly? u could argue that nearly everything got buffed indirectly through the arcana and boon changes

[tall notch]

One weapon that kinda got nerfed are skulls because of the possessed array thing

[plain fossil]

the "best" aspects power-wise across fears right now are (probably?) charon and moros and both of those got indirect buffs through having gain boons basically custom-designed for them

[sudden belfry]

do you mean melinoe on all the weapons?

[sudden belfry]

mainly directly

[tall notch]

I mean Melinoe as in the character, not the Melinoe aspects

[sudden belfry]

ohh i see

[tall notch]

She's more powerful with stronger boons and the arcana changes

[sudden belfry]

lemme go look over the patch notes again
i see!

[plain fossil]

in terms of what actually directly changed in terms of weapons its basically just eos and persephone

[tall notch]

And possessed array

[warped harness]

what about momus

[tall notch]

That was patch 2

[plain fossil]

yea thats true although its a bit overblown how much the change did

[warped harness]

oh

[tall notch]

Skulls are still good, but if you want to use possessed now you actually have to click some form of mana regen

[warped harness]

what happened to possessed array?

[plain fossil]

it costs a bit of mana now

[warped harness]

ohh

[tall notch]

It's 10 mana per pickup, right? Which is like the full cost of skull omega attacks

[plain fossil]

its hardcoded mana not an actual cost so omega cost modifying boons dont apply

which means u can click all the weedkillers and blood lines and whatnot that u like

[sudden belfry]

what boons would u guys recommend for aspect of circe now?

i wanna do a staff run

[warped harness]

engagement ring

[tall notch]

If you actually want to play the aspect instead of spamming regular attack on a staff without using your aspect, I'd recommend getting Hera on something as a source of spreading hitch (cast is really good rn) and Apollo attack for aoe + possibility to build towards his legendary

[sudden belfry]

gotcha!

[tall notch]

For your mana regen, Hestia fits Circe's playstyle pretty well. Also try getting some channel speed increases as staff omegas are sloooooooooooooooow

[warped harness]

^ chaos and hermes can provide that

double attack hammer will affect the omega and its very very good, but you have to be wary of the damage taken increase

[tall notch]

Rapid wallop speeds up both attack and omega attack so it's really good if you want to play with circe's aspect ability

[plain fossil]

u dont need a gain boon for circe fwiw

[tired fulcrum]

#makestormringcirceworkagain

[plain fossil]

agree on channel speed

[warped harness]

^ as long as you have enough to cast an omega while serenity is up

storm ring circe? isnt that basically like the persephone zeus cast build

[tall notch]

You don't need one immediately but it can be a nice to have further into a run

[limpid coral]

If ur out of mana on circe in a long room just lose a life to get the mana back tbh the time spent playing out the rest of the fight with no mana isn't worth it it's so boring

[warped harness]

what

[plain fossil]

generally u just want to focus on ur attack and then if u happen to proc serenity at a useable time then drop an omega attack or two

[limpid coral]

Do u value the hp or your sanity more

[plain fossil]

ive done this on momus before when not starting with a gain boon

[sudden belfry]

hm...mirrored thrasher or rapid thrasher?

[limpid coral]

Doesnt mirrored also double your charge atk

[warped harness]

arguably rapid bc it boosts cast speed no?

it does

[plain fossil]

mirrored not remotely close

mirrored also boosts ur cast speed in that u get 2 times as many omegas per omega

[warped harness]

fair

[sudden belfry]

gotcha gotcha

[limpid coral]

Also it doubles dash atk where rapid doesnt which is nice

[silent crow]

😭😭

[tall notch]

I hate onion. Haven't gotten a boon in either Oceanus or Fields

[timber pawn]

are you working on 50s too?

[tall notch]

was trying to get staff

Made it to Tartarus but struggled to clear the rooms when I haven't seen a boon for 2 whole regions

[timber pawn]

thats brutal

[tall notch]

It's why I hate this vow, makes the already rough Erebus even rougher and leaves me with boonless Oceanus a lot of the time

Not getting a single one in fields is a new one though

How am I meant to WABS without the boons to stack?

[sudden belfry]

should i have hera or dem cast for charon

[soft forge]

Woot woot, beat Chronos in 30.58.01 minutes with a kinda bonkers broken build. Key parts were:- the time slow Arcana
-time slow Hex
-reduced Omega charge time from upgraded Melinoë Witch's Staff
-bunches of damage from Special (Daedelus:Aetheric Moonburst, Shimmering Moonshot, Hestia: Controlled Burn,
Bunches of damage from Cast: Hestia: Smolder Ring, Duo: Gale Force, and Apollo: Prominence Flare.

Hit cast and spam Omega Special, then slow time a bajillion times and position well.

Top damages were: Omega Special, Controlled Burn, Scorch, Sprint (dealt damage from Hestia boon), and Boreal Gust.

[magic moss]

nice

[tall notch]

I think Hera is better atm

[limpid coral]

if i had a nickel every time i dashed through midboss shadow spillers swipe and accidentally clicked attack slightly too early to cancel the iframes id have 3 nickels

[tall notch]

Dash-attacking removing my iframes is one of the reasons why I can't play melee weapons 😭

I'll keep forgetting that is a thing and tank hits I shouldn't have tanked

[vale gate]

its whats screwing me over in both h1 and h2

[tired fulcrum]

If youre mid combo and dash it just sticks the attack at the end of your dash and doesnt get rid of iframes

[tall notch]

SO THAT'S WHY I KEEP GETTING HIT ON STAFF WHEN I REALLY DON'T THINK I SHOULD

[tired fulcrum]

it me or is new nexus sprint kinda awful

[timber pawn]

I wasn't really ever clicking nexus sprint anyway tbh

It used to just apply hitch to nearby foes, and now it does that better and also damage right?

[civic ocean]

Yeah when I was doing 50 staff I eventually got into the rhythm of it I think

[tall notch]

I've seen Tartarus multiple times now but something always goes wrong with the run and I can't quite close it off

[civic ocean]

Just get ridiculously lucky is my advice

[tall notch]

Will this do?

[civic ocean]

Well if my run is anything to go by you will want to start Selene

[tired fulcrum]

It only applies hitch to one target, idk the old range but you have to run directly face first into stuff

Yeah anyways it was garbage before still

[tall notch]

Are there some wild strats I am not aware of or are you just joking around?

[civic ocean]

Sort of both?

My 50 fear Staff clear was a Selene start

[tall notch]

When I was trying to cook with non-god keepsakes I'd reset Selene starts room 1 tbh
Did you even use the hex?

[civic ocean]

I did, actually, 3 or 4 times in Erebus

I stepped on the circles

[plain fossil]

Fwiw i was chatting to foolish about this a bit, runs with a lot of boons tend to have timer issues since several skip rooms like artemis and some nem rooms dont roll off boon rooms

[civic ocean]

Is that confirmed

Like do we know that artemis can't roll off of boons? Can she roll off of hearts?

[tall notch]

Sure but once I've seen both Nem and Artemis I'd like to have some boons 😭

[plain fossil]

The nem rooms 100% are, if nem gives u food she cant give u a boon for example

[past salmon]

Arty can't spawn in any room with a menu
Nemesis can spawn in any room that isnt a boon room

[tall notch]

Literally the only boons in sight were minibosses (which then got onioned)

[civic ocean]

My thinking was that I would just play every run out to get used to 50f

[plain fossil]

This is also why i think not clicking room rerolls is insane

[past salmon]

genuinely deranged behaviour bro

[civic ocean]

And then I hit Mirrored Thrasher on floor 4 and got Epic Ice Strike from the miniboss

[plain fossil]

Idk if u were but every time i dont click room rerolls i end up with like gold gold pom heart and i alt f4

[tall notch]

But how did you not want to die when you reached floor 4 boonless

[past salmon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246695893361496087/1261155892418580561/20240711221153_1.jpg?ex=6691ee73&is=66909cf3&hm=147333454a5e1d5b5bb65229f2e254d3e6fceeb0125b46c154b8aed268347dc4&
Average spot where Abandon attempts end

[civic ocean]

I guess the easiest way to explain it was that I wasn't trying to win so much as I was trying to get sicknasty at 50?

Like sure maybe my run is doomed but I can maybe get 0.001% better at fighting Hippos

[tall notch]

I guess the approach worked for you. Have you done 50s with any other weapons btw?

[plain fossil]

Lul

[civic ocean]

And every time I got Selene starts in particular I was like "I want to use the circles"

[tall notch]

At least without DDs resets are quick

[past salmon]

so true

[civic ocean]

No, I suspect it would take a long time to do with most weapons, I am not a 50f true talent level most likely. I have a very, very lucky run

[tall notch]

If anyone does air fryer persephone 50 fear, it's gotta be you

Or pink aura

[plain fossil]

Is that even good now

[civic ocean]

It's fine

[plain fossil]

I didnt rly check how aq scorch works with new scorch

[past salmon]

I do reccomend you go for Persephone 50F!
Maybe not air fryer lol but I think Perseph is one of the funnest 50Fs

[plain fossil]

So i genuinely have no idea

[civic ocean]

I want to try 55 a bit for now

[tall notch]

Are you okay

[plain fossil]

Fwiw scorch on its own is a lot more clickable on skulls this patch

[civic ocean]

It's just what I want to try

[plain fossil]

Bc u get 40 scorch instead of 20 or whatever

[civic ocean]

Scorch now does more dmg/tick at base so air quality is less impactful

But on the plus side it is so much easier to get 5 air that you can encorporate gods like hera or demeter into the build and get more value out of Air Quality

[plain fossil]

Also is there some weird thing with smolder ring where if u dont have 80 scorch per second it halts the decay at 1 scorch so ur origination doesnt fall off? Or is that some visual bug im getting

[civic ocean]

Also you're no longer hard inting by going flame strike early on so the build got way more reliable for people who didn't have deep knowledge of the build

Also Origination costing 5 and Artificer costing 3 now is a pretty substantial indirect buff to AQ since it doesn't run orig

On the other hand, you really don't need Air Quality at all to pop off with Scorch, so there's that

[silent crow]

um

[tall notch]

Wouldn't the best AQ setup rn involve trying to fish for it with Hestia+Hera duo?

[silent crow]

im not even sure if it works tbh i tried using it as a terrible poseidon sprint and it kept whiffing

they need to rework pos zeus and hera sprints

[civic ocean]

Start Zeus

You need Hestia and 1 of Aphy/Apo

Then 1 of any god you run into they're literally all good except maybe Poseidon

Hera is great

Demeter is great
Heph is low key very good

You can also start Hestia now too tbh

[tall notch]

Or hear me out
Start Hestia
Get Hera
Get a bunch of air from random sources like Chaos/Narc/Hermes
Get the Hestia+Hera duo
Get AQ without even needing Zeus in the build
Surely you never get punished for the gamble and can consistently get the setup going

[past salmon]

Just be #neverpunished

[civic ocean]

I think on torches I would start Hestia

Part of the issue is that you have so many incredible casts you can go with for this build

Like even Rapture Ring pops off with AQ a little

So if you go hera are you gonna go sworn strike/flourish?

Hitch has a really interesting interaction with AQ

[tall notch]

In current patch I would've taken Hestia attack and Hera cast prob

[gilded trail]

Noob question: when folks here say for example "start Hestia" do you mean to wear her keepsake at the start?

[civic ocean]

Exactly

[gilded trail]

Does it actually guarantee, or just slightly increased chance? I haven't tried any of those yet

[civic ocean]

Yeah this is totally viable and tbh you don't even necessarily need Air Quality at that point, you can go for the Poseidon or Demeter Duos with Hestia instead and still do great damage

In that case you'll want origination tho so its tricky

The zeus start benefit is that Zeus is so much earlygame dmg that you don't really need origination

[tall notch]

Origination+Unseen+Artificer Eos drops either furies or titan

[civic ocean]

Do you miss old eos

[tall notch]

Yes 🥺
But I like new Eos after they improved the tracking on it

[civic ocean]

Anyways yeah Air Fryer is totally fine as a build but isn't really totally necessary to win with scorch

It would be tricky to pull off at 50f just because of Onion

And the timer, too

[plain fossil]

Your first god boon will be that god

[bleak night]

@tall notch do you not sleep lol

[bleak night]

I've done Air Quality twice in 50F already, it's kinda neat when you get it

[tall notch]

https://tenor.com/view/insomnia-cant-sleep-spongebob-squarepants-gif-16906483

[bleak night]

I just woke up meanwhile

[plain fossil]

I also clicked it once or twice but like only to make static shock better

[bleak night]

I had Static Shock, Gale Force and Rapture Ring along with Blitz on attack

It felt rly nice, gotta say

[limpid coral]

Cyclone build pog

[plain fossil]

Static shock is just a really insane boon

Someone here got mad at me when i said its as good as trusty shield if u dont count the reservation difference

[limpid coral]

Id like static shock a lot better if it didnt clutter the screen so much 😔 It is so strong tho shame it makes everything unreadable

[bleak night]

I'm at a point where I think 50F isn't as challenging but 51F I constantly get skill issued because my playstyle doesn't let me go hitless, so I'm honestly kind of at a loss rn

[plain fossil]

I changed my mind on that opinion btw i now think its better

[bleak night]

I might do some randomizer runs

[limpid coral]

Turn off brain and click, after one or two thousand hours your subconscious will dodge everything for you 👍

[gilded trail]

Another noob question: to get all the story bits, what's minimum fear level I'll need? Schelemeus just showed me a bunch of trophy things that I could get when I finish fear level 8, if I'm not mistaken.. (But I'm also curious if the trophy thing affects story much)

[tall notch]

Trusty is twice as good as static. Static trivalises 2 points of fear (rebuke) while trusty trivialises 4 points of fear (suffering 2)

[silent crow]

😭 \

[civic ocean]

It feels way way way easier to get than I thought it would at 40 so that checks out

[tall notch]

If it's like h1, you'll be able to complete the entire story without touching the fear system at all

[gilded trail]

Sounds good thank you 🙂

[civic ocean]

Trusty can also do things like if you have a really good phase 1 chronos and retain your armor you can actually just beat grandpa's ass to death in p2 and like not even worry about dodging the whole phase

Between your hp pool, the armor, and the 10 seconds you get from pin you can just murder him if you have the deeps

[gilded trail]

To be honest, I didn't quite finish H1 - I got to see Zag's mom and a bit more after, but there's so much nectar/ambrosia grinding I wasn't looking forward to, to finish everyone... that I gave up at some point. I hope I can tough it out here in H2 😅 (Oops sorry - I just realized I'm in builds and combat channel - sorry for the off-topic comment)

[plain fossil]

5Head

[tall notch]

Can't argue with math!

[plain fossil]

Trueeee

[tired fulcrum]

@tall notch here's a good example. in the first clip I dash after the third hit and i'm spamming attack so I queue a dash strike and lose iframes, in the second clip I'm dashing during the finisher and flurry wind ups so I still get Iframes https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1261161963548049428/Hades_II_2024-07-11_20-19-27_-_Trim.mp4?ex=6691f41b&is=6690a29b&hm=96ea38d4eb221c5a5bb16c76866499840c66792fc23b2a3bb5b7f90cb782f355&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1261161964671864892/Hades_II_2024-07-11_20-19-27_-_Trim2.mp4?ex=6691f41b&is=6690a29b&hm=58cb84d4935302554819af67bcb1c7360adb1bfb89f3cc608a740007323e8627&

[tall notch]

clip number 2 is so smooth!!

[tired fulcrum]

except the finisher misses when chronos dashes gamepad life

[silent crow]

worth it to not move in 8 directions

[tired fulcrum]

Tru

[warped harness]

what aspect should i play for fun

[limpid coral]

roll dice or something

[warped harness]

damn.

[limpid coral]

if u think "ugh this sucks" quit out and roll again

[viscid spade]

i like early elemental infusion build for fun, you get some variety to build towards once you see what infusions you get

oh you said aspect

[limpid coral]

how is someone else supposed to know what form of clicky click or flashing lights you enjoy

[viscid spade]

yea that's very subjective heh

[warped harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/422149143205773315/1261167544358932583/image.png?ex=6691f94d&is=6690a7cd&hm=13598fc37403d1fd687fd859f468721ef1dc0e1be5bd07fb86f33e1e95e6d2eb& 💀 does pink aura work this patch

[tall notch]

The best way to play Mel torches seems to be "old eos at home" where you just hold down attack and kill things

[warped harness]

is the special still strong?

[tall notch]

It's like alright but not that amazing

[tired fulcrum]

You can do omega attack spam bloodline hearthrobs on lower fears

[warped harness]

depressing

[gilded trail]

What distance counts as "close-up damage"? If I'm using the axe, does a normal swing always get "close-up" even at the edge? Or is it actually closer?

[tired fulcrum]

A bit closer than the edge, its approximately cast radius

[gilded trail]

Thank you!

[civic ocean]

I find the torch special to be kinda booty now

instead of Pink Aura play Pink Line

and just use aph attack

[warped harness]

pink line 😔

i quit my run for tonight bc im too tired but next time it will be the line

[plain fossil]

If ur on low fear then the blood line mel torches build is really really fun

Its just massive eye cancer

[lethal rune]

what exactly is considered "low fear" in this game

[plain fossil]

it's a pretty personal thing this early in the game's life cycle and here it's used more with respect to mean "whatever fear u can do with little or no chance of failing the run"

[bleak night]

0-10 usually

[plain fossil]

i would probably also say 0-10 but might go as high as 16

[bleak night]

I think 19 is the threshold for mid-fear, honestly

[plain fossil]

yea like i said it's all a bit fuzzy

[bleak night]

To me, it's
0-18 low, 19-32 mid, 33-42 high, 43-50 very high, 51+ cancer high

[plain fossil]

sure, that's reasonable

using the example of the bloodline mel torches build above, its really fun at 12 fear but i wouldnt want to take it anywhere that i had to start clicking arrogance and dominance and other things that can make me run out of mana before the fight ends

[magic moss]

i think of 0-16 as low, 17-32 as mid, 33-42 as high, and 43+ as very high fear so very similar to Mynts but a bit more lax on the lower end

[past salmon]

imo high fear is like 40+

32-40F is fake and not real

[magic moss]

32-40 is this weird gray area of fear

[plain fossil]

Hot take of the day: both levels of fury should be 1 less fear and the final level of both suffering and revenants should be 1 more fear

Mostly i just dont get how both levels of revenants are 1f tbh the second level is so much more difficult

[vital ledge]

20% for +1, 50% for +2 for revenants would make sense to me, as it's already done this way with the "enemies from next area" vow.
the second point in fury is a bit harder than the first, so I could see +2, +3.

[dense dirge]

trying to win an argument with a friend regarding Aphrodite atm.
Is it better to have her boons on attack/special attack for the blades or axes?

[leaden owl]

depends on which blade/axe.
would take her for blades/axes on attack most of the time but Charon can have its uses with aphro special

(frankly prefer boons that have an innate status effect tho since that's better for origination)

but most of the time the special will be a long ranged attack so her benefit will be very underwhelming on special

[drowsy kraken]

Being up close and personal gets you the most benefits from her boons obv, charon special is just baseline powerful as hell but I don't think Id go out of my way to put aphro there

[leaden owl]

yeah, prefer apollo/hera on special but will take aphro if I am given that choice (usually play high fear so maybe it's different in general play)

[drowsy kraken]

Yeah for sure! Charon axe is pretty much golden no matter what hah

[plain fossil]

i dont understand the question

are u asking whether aph is better on attack or special for the various blade and axe aspects?

if so then on thanatos and mel axe u dont generally want a special boon at all and aph is a good attack boon, on charon u dont want an attack boon at all and aph is an acceptable special boon, on mel and artemis u generally don't want a special boon and aph is good as an attack boon, and on pan u don't want an attack boon at all while aph is a mediocre option on special

[dense dirge]

I'm current using mel's blade and axe for my runs, but I tend to build Hestia/Demeter with the hope of getting double up from Posideon

[leaden owl]

When I did a high fear Thanatos axe run I got aphro attack but yeah engagement ring from Hera is generally the best starting boon.

[plain fossil]

generally u dont prioritize a special boon at all on those aspects

[dense dirge]

I tend to aim for high damage with some degree of AOE, haven't had enough time to full on experiment with my builds yet

[plain fossil]

sounds good

in that case i recommend not trying to win arguments with ur friends and instead just experiment and have fun as u have been doing

[carmine lagoon]

Having beaten 45F Charon twice should I go for 48 (commotion 3) or 47 (rebuke 2) to practice for 50F?

[tall notch]

I'd say rebuke, it changes way more than commotion for Charon

[carmine lagoon]

Yes I did onion before either of those :)

[carmine lagoon]

Alright thanks

[tall notch]

As the #1 onion hater I can't believe what I'm reading

My 47f Charon didn't have onion

[carmine lagoon]

With commotion I either got rekt by normal enemies or timed out for being careful to not get rekt

Played as normal from room 3 lucid gain

Well, I didn’t have a special boon until Tartarus shop (without which I probs would’ve timed out on Chronos lol)

[tall notch]

Onion moment

[carmine lagoon]

Besides that though, I had origination through Apollo sprint and dem cast, and got natty heph for trusty shield

[tall notch]

Seriously though, onion is such a nasty vow. I had a sick staff run yesterday but then onion decided I'm not seeing a boon again after i defeated mom

[carmine lagoon]

Still sometimes waste rolls on miniboss doors only for it to get onioned 🫠

[carmine lagoon]

Just get lucky it’s literally not that hard 😀

[tall notch]

No joke, onion is like the main reason why I haven't been trying harder for 50s with other weapons

[carmine lagoon]

Wait hold on how do I actually deal with rebuke on Charon

[tall notch]

Idk, let me know when you figure it out

[carmine lagoon]

Do I do anything differently or do enemies just take more hits now

[plain fossil]

Before u have abuild u need to hit 1 time then combo

After ur set up with gale force or multihit cast or whatever then u will naturally clear with combo

[carmine lagoon]

Does special damage activate before or after cast damage?

[plain fossil]

Before, so anything in the cast takes 400 if its got 1 shield heading in

[carmine lagoon]

Is Hestia cast good then?

[plain fossil]

It's fine

[carmine lagoon]

Like if I roll into her should I take her or nah

[plain fossil]

U take whatever cast gives u origination, they basically all do damage

[carmine lagoon]

Or is it still Apollo/aphro/dem/heph/hera

[plain fossil]

Heph cast doesnt apply a curse and sometimes wont hit before ur special goes off

The others are fine, as is hestia

Poseidon is vaguely acceptable if ur really stuck for options too

[carmine lagoon]

Yeah but heph good for other things so I still take him if roll into him

[plain fossil]

Oh sure im just talking about cast boons

If ur trying to do 50 u just take what u can get

The only god i really dont want on charon is poseidon the rest are varying degrees of fine

[limpid coral]

Poseidon special on charon looks pretty sick ngl it just sucks unfortunately

Well on any axe special

[vague solstice]

Just did a cool build for staff, Demeter special was doing more than 600 dmg

hera+poseidon cast and 3300 gold was doing wonder

kinda looks like freeze orb from diablo

280dmg for one normal special too

[cyan rock]

whats the build?
is it just the cash for damage build?

[vague solstice]

Video is too heavy for discord T_T

Demeter special, Hera cast and the boon that create rift for omega move

lot of money for demeter + poseidon build and profit with spamming special

[magic moss]

seems like a bloodline omega special golden rule build

[vague solstice]

Yup that's it

[cyan rock]

nice!

[vague solstice]

i will retry this with momus aspect i think it will be fun

Also i did a omega cast build around poseidon cast and it's sooo strong and fun. Just use one button and nuke everything. Need poseidon omega cast and then spam everything you can too boost damage from it

[cyan rock]

i've been doing a bloodline torch attack build that i really think could top the speedrun charts (if someone better than me tried it lol)
its hera in zone 1 for: engagement ring, born gain, and bloodline
then you grab aphro for hearthrobs which you make INSTANTLY because of how fast the torch omega atk + bloodline uses mana
and top of with sunny disposition for even more hearthrobs.

the biggest benefit is vs bosses, while they are doing the invulnerable phases you can build up hearthrobs then dash at them when it ends to instant nuke them.

i literally 1 shot every chronos phase with it. it was prety fun!

[vague solstice]

Isn't it really expensive in mana ?

I love you idea i need to try it

[cyan rock]

yah but born gain is totally up to the task as long as you save hera's rarify for it. and then prioritize max mana rooms over most other things.

[vague solstice]

but first i want to retry my freezing orb diablo build with the hammer that boost special if you put more mana on it

[cyan rock]

the thing about born gain even post nerf is that it acts as a multiplier on max mana.
because it lets you re-use the same max mana bonus multiple time.
its not instant infinite mana like before but still really good.
particularly if you can pom it once or twice.

[rugged vale]

managed to get a pom on a heroic one just now, 9 magick is primed ❤️

[cyan rock]

lol nice. at that point yah its infinite mana basically

[rugged vale]

charon special + bloodline, didnt even bother with max magic rooms

[cyan rock]

fair though that is way less mana hungry than torches atk with bloodline.
that one even with that you would still want max mana lol

it guzzles more mana than f150 turbo boosted by a bad mechanic guzzles gas XD

[rugged vale]

yea, I can imagine, you need to cast soo much

[cyan rock]

totally worth it for 1 shoting all chronos phases though
https://youtu.be/jYswxu_9Zjg?si=JvIKcWdC6vwrf8ww&t=1675
it was really fun XD

[vague solstice]

sooo good

[cyan rock]

lol all numbers no skill XD

[vague solstice]

hey

that's the best builds ever, when you roll your head on the keyboard and win

[cyan rock]

truth XD

[vague solstice]

Just posted one like this

https://youtu.be/b7a4zk6u-lA?si=RJ_Av7EDBQkgb8Dz

[scenic pagoda]

i have a thing next to my health bar thats charging up percentage

cant figure out what it is anyone knows?

[vague solstice]

probably bound to the aspect you use

[scenic pagoda]

youre right i just checked it must be the mortality from thanatos aspect

[spare kite]

If it's a percentage are you using than axe

[scenic pagoda]

thanks

[vague solstice]

It’s probably my favorite build I found so far. It’s fun to just nuke everything. It was one of my fastest run too. Sub 15mn with this build.

Not much but honest work

[subtle ether]

what are the best upgrades for pan cast, endgame build

mainly for pure damage from special, to be specific

im thinking special speed up 40%, but don't know if the second hammer should be spiral or dancing knives. for poseidon special, is # of procs more important, or is the number of total daggers the main thing?

[silent crow]

spiral is much better than dancing

[cursive oyster]

posiedon waves also only activate on the first hit of dancing so uhh its not idral

[subtle ether]

the way i imagine it playing out is that spiral just can't scale well with single target damage

thats another big fat drawback lol

[cursive oyster]

shooting 21 knives is much better than 10 for single target damage

you just gotta be a bit closer

[subtle ether]

plus theres a lot more flashing lights and fun colors on screen

[cursive oyster]

true

[subtle ether]

in h1, something about that charon bow tickled a part of me that i wished never saw the light of day

[cursive oyster]

holy wording

but yeah pan blades is chiron but usable
(up until 41+ fear)

[carmine lagoon]

Why 41+?

[cursive oyster]

idk its an arbitrary number for “very high fear”

[silent crow]

pan is like the worst possible aspect on higher fear too

[cursive oyster]

worse than medea?

[silent crow]

slow, bad aoe, needs mana & special boon

[silent crow]

at least medea does damage

[cursive oyster]

fair

[magic moss]

theres a bit more nuance as to why 40+ is considered very high fear but tldr it comes down to what vows are enabled

onion, rebuke, and revanents are the biggest spikes in difficulty in conjunction with timer3, and they are only really enabled in high fear runs starting 43+

suffering is also a big part of it because it gives you far less room for error, and that is also enabled at around 40F

[tall notch]

You people hating revs this much is wild to me. Rev1 was one of the vows I turned on first 😭

[magic moss]

keyword in conjunction, revs are fine alone but with timer3 AND at ~40F range its a big time loss overall

[tall notch]

Rev2 sure, but if your weapon has reasonable mobility rev1 is freer than a point of commotion

[magic moss]

and 40+ is where rev2 gets enabled

[silent crow]

ive been doing a ton of casual runs with rev2 to get used to it

except i actually hate it more now

[vague solstice]

poseidon + hera duo boon is soooo strong it's insane. I need to test it with aspect of pan, each knives dealing a lot of damage should be really fun

[carmine lagoon]

Does Nimble Mind work on charon o-special?

or does nimble limbs do stuff instead

im looking at Ameliability's run rn and she took Nimble Limbs over Nimble Mind, so does the latter affect the o-special?

[past salmon]

GG my goat @tall notch

[tall notch]

Thanks!!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927694753116614746/1261413309006221352/image.png?ex=6692de30&is=66918cb0&hm=8e02a52a860ed48d7b1ea85eff4608b1a8994607aaad715aecab28070c3b02bf& is this just happening on my end or do we have a double submission on the leaderboard?

[magic moss]

just u

[tall notch]

Oh a browser refresh fixed this, the one below it was showing double too

[fair narwhal]

I got patch 4 already? Didnt know I was a time traveller

[magic moss]

loving the 35 way tie XDD

[past salmon]

Shame I have like 6 clears not in there lmao
Oh I have 2 I can submit wait

[magic moss]

loving the 37 way tie

[fair narwhal]

I have another 5 clears to submit as well just waiting to get them up on YouTube first

[uneven palm]

Only Sudden Cleaver (hammer) and Metallic Droplet (keepsake) speed up the Omega special on Charon. Not sure if that's intended, but yeah Nimble Mind or Chaos don't do anything for ya

[carmine lagoon]

What about nimble limbs?? That one really confused me in her speed run

[uneven palm]

Can't speak for her, but that speeds up dropping regular casts, which you're doing all the time on Charon

[forest forum]

How close do you have to be to activate Aphro Attack/Special?

[timber pawn]

anything within axe swing range, which is pretty large for other weapons

[forest forum]

Thank you.

[magic moss]

We are at 68 unique 50F clears. Next one claims the funny number

[timber pawn]

its my time (I'm 80% joking)

[past salmon]

genuinely think you should try for one

[timber pawn]

I did 40 mel skulls the other day first try so I imagine I have it in me with some patience

idk if I'd want to do it on mel skulls though, I dont think so lol

[past salmon]

Mel skulls is probably 3rd/4th easiest 50F imo
Tied with Mel axe

[timber pawn]

I played the mel skulls run kind of like medea at 40, I imagine that wouldn't fly at 50 lol

I'll probably give it a shot over the weekend

[carmine lagoon]

Oh man now I’m even sadder about my failed 50F today

[magic moss]

dont be 50Fs are brutal

like we say easiest but its still at least 5 times harder than 32

[tall notch]

If you succeeded with one earlier today, I'd probably get the funny numer since 68th clear was mine

[timber pawn]

Oh grats! What weapon?

[tall notch]

Mel axe

[timber pawn]

Nice

[tall notch]

And earlier I also did Circe

[magic moss]

did you do circe or did u do staff

[vale gate]

just me or are all curses in this game kind of broken

besides like slip

[silent crow]

theyre good but not rly broken

[magic moss]

the only one i would consider “broken” is hitch

[tall notch]

staff, I don't think I used a single omega

[magic moss]

[tall notch]

Why u me

[magic moss]

[tall notch]

[vale gate]

i mean freeze seems really op in h2 compared to h1, and daze as well which is basically 20% dodge

[silent crow]

freeze is only rly good on cast

[magic moss]

the question is raise to you is a simple “so what?” Freeze has a trade off of damage, Daze’s only real application is sprint, weak dmg reduc is fine but you dont want to be getting hit in the first place, Vent is very mediocre, Blitz is incredibly conditional, Cyclone slow has no damage, Charm is locked to legendary/duo

hitch is really the only “op” curse, everything else has its use cases and downsides

[vale gate]

i mean after a certain point i guess you just stop getting hit often enough for them to matter much

[past salmon]

Mini be like "weak isn't even good just don't pay attention to my 50F clears where I'm taking 2 damage from Chronos from DR stacking"

[magic moss]

real and true

[vale gate]

whats dr my brain goes to deadly reversal

[past salmon]

Damage reduction

[magic moss]

damage reduction

[vale gate]

oh

[magic moss]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1249502882819215453/1259193362049663097/image.png?ex=6692b3b4&is=66916234&hm=71fc964528209d01f59c4f982c982548dd862b5460b5b6f7d16f41569e47c785& i see nothing wrong here

[tall notch]

You're blocking so the damage taken is lower, makes perfect sense to me

[magic moss]

exactlyyyyy

[silent crow]

chronos js hit a sour spot

[tall notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927694753116614746/1261460958144888893/image.png?ex=66930a91&is=6691b911&hm=376a58d45d28edb206d455c86f4ef5a28a6f9a15febac626d6b61979b6152345& why does the more recent video have triple the views? I think people just dislike staff 😔

[past salmon]

Because all staff clears are the exact same

Oops I got the funny hammer room 2 agahahahaha

[magic moss]

i rly want to make circe work

but i just had a 10 hour day and im tired as hell

[viscid spade]

Momus enjoyers... Is there a pretty bis build out there or just get high % boons like Apollo Aphro

[tall notch]

The bis build is same as other staff aspects, ignore the omega part and spam attack with OP hammers

[past salmon]

This is a high fear thing only

Momus can cook at low fear

[viscid spade]

Ok anything but that 😅 i wanna play the aspect this time heh

[magic moss]

some combination of Hera and Dem. Sworn Strike with Arctic ring and Arctic strike with ER can work. Play to omega move when you apply freeze

[limpid coral]

bruh the first time i see elementary particles its two runs into erebus endshop with too little time/hp left in a row

[viscid spade]

Thr spam attack I reserve for Melanie staff so I can squeeze in omega attacks here and there at least

[silent crow]

does momus even have best in slots bc u have to play around hammers anyway no?

[limpid coral]

slow cooker martial art gonna carry ig cause the other two were frosty and aq and im way far away from that

[viscid spade]

I like how thr doesn't get autocorrected but melinoe does

[magic moss]

you can also go pos and play for golden rule, apollo for bigger aoe, hestia attack with weak/freeze and play for duo

[split igloo]

i've got all my mana primed and the boon to lightning strike all enemies while you have zero mana, plus artemis arrow on each strike... stuff just dies while i stand still and it would be interesting to see a hitch added

[tall notch]

Heph legendary is the ultimate highroll on Momus, right? Because it makes the pulse delay incredibly short

[magic moss]

if you want to play the aspect yeah

heph special + trusty/mint + blast modifier boon is best for staff

go any high dmg% boon on atk and play for origination

[tired fulcrum]

https://imgur.com/a/Pv0Q0YP I swear poly is so goofy when you phase him mid jump

[vale gate]

which hexes give invincibility at base?

[limpid coral]

wolf howl dark side?

[tired fulcrum]

Gimme back calls and their instant iframes for every single one

[lethal rune]

How are people building torches rn? I barely run em and need to take them to eris for a nightmare

[split igloo]

sprint boons because im not harry potter

[tired fulcrum]

https://imgur.com/a/6RKP2Fe bloodline torches are funny

[lethal rune]

Oh dear god yep I'm doing that

[vale gate]

Scam, Eris only gives 75% bonus

[vale gate]

I keep pressing F midfight to get disappointed

[vale gate]

i noticed i can get past most of the game fairly easily but chronos really destroys me, any tips to dodging his attacks easier

[magic moss]

listen for audio cues since he grunts before he does attacks and look for visual cues like flashes because they indicate when the attack happens

otherwise its a lot of muscle memory and attack pattern timings

[vale gate]

what are the attacks he can do in phase 1?

the triple combo only happens after 50% right?

[magic moss]

yes

[vale gate]

and they can be any combination of dash and sweep?

[plain fossil]

If you have a source of freeze it doesnt stun chronos but acts as a huge animation slow

Its useful when learning to understand cues if not timing

[vale gate]

i think i will do a bunch of 0 fear runs with that

[silent crow]

he cant sweep/dash/sweep i think

[plain fossil]

Fwiw if theres one thing i recommend for learning chronos its 6f fury2

Because if u dont learn chronos timing with fury2 ur muscle memory will be wrong when u turn it on

[vale gate]

i figured if im slowing him down might as well go all the way

[silent crow]

i think the main problem with chronos is phase 2.2 where he spawns the ads

[plain fossil]

If u just wanna see animations then yea sure

[plain fossil]

Ngl this patch with engagement ring removed that issue

U just dump engagement ring on chronos and hit him for 1000 and it blows up all the adds

Ofc if u dont have broken boons its bit different

[vale gate]

but just because a boon cheeses it doesnt make it not a problem

[plain fossil]

Well no it does make it not a problem, as long as u click that boon lul

[silent crow]

ah thats fair but in terms of actually learning the fight its still p rough

[plain fossil]

Ye u need to prioritize those things

[silent crow]

the other strategy is to save the pin charge for phase 2 so you can js burst him down

[tired fulcrum]

Theres double swipe into dash/nothing, dash into double swipe, and triple dash, after spawning orb circle he'll single dash also maybe after flags

[vale gate]

ok tysm '

[plain fossil]

Basically u dont really need to remember all the permutations u just keep up a cast on him and dash behind him when he starts to move his shoulders, and if its a swipe u will have to dash back through him

[vale gate]

and the funnel thing is free damage right

[plain fossil]

Free is a strong word

Free if u get behind him and dont stand too close

[river drift]

As free of damage as you can get for a final boss

[plain fossil]

If u fk up u take like 200

Basically dont disrespect it and its safe dps yes

U also get much more free damage with heavy metal boon because u have more freedom to maneuver

[vale gate]

whats heavy metal?

[plain fossil]

Heph boon makes u immune to succ

[vale gate]

thats a pretty specific boon

[plain fossil]

Its good

[river drift]

it also gives you a huge lump of armor iirc

[plain fossil]

Gives u bunch of armour and then also randomly stops couple of annoying reposition effects

[vale gate]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1217358637836796004/1261494040470356059/Screenshot_2024-07-13_at_6.49.40_AM.png?ex=66932960&is=6691d7e0&hm=305439ce9966772981c9daef09642210168fe7f0c033b190d083658b84032b2d& this was doing much much less damage than i was expecting it to do, am i missing something

oh i am missing something

on the topic of zeus do the lightning bolts have an internal cooldown like in h1

[split igloo]

the cast says 1 enemy at a time and the hail storm might also be that, just a wild guess

[vale gate]

no im just missing origination

[uneven palm]

I was about to say, with Origination that should be a LOT of damage

[bright token]

finally did 50F with axe, certainly not doing it again for a long time lol

[past salmon]

Do you have a ss

Of endscreen
@magic moss

[magic moss]

yo wait

[past salmon]

Oh I'm silly it's already in VB

GG !

[bright token]

yeah, and the chronos fight recorded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNjeQdnF1oQ&ab_channel=bananapeel

[vale gate]

W

wtf, block is op

[bright token]

dude i have no idea how i would approach this guy without the block

also daze helped a lot with the lucky dodges in certain places

[drowsy kraken]

Okay slay literally. You make than axe look fun

[bright token]

thanks!

[tall notch]

Than axe feels smooth to play but the thing doesn't deal damage 😭 I prefer Mel axe

Because it does actually deal damage

[bright token]

what were the runs with Pan? it should be possible to trump chronos with raw damage of hook knives but the problem is to get there of course

[tall notch]

I think most people just played manaless blade attack spam and didn't care for the aspect

[timber pawn]

I think most 50f blades runs ignored aspect and went static shock and other things, ya

[bright token]

i cant stomach mel axe without the speed hammer, 40% speed mobs are too fast for it

[drowsy kraken]

The cap on 13% critical damage feels pretty awkward. Most players starting out aren't even gonna hold that for long anyway it feels like a strange place to stop

[tall notch]

It needs either the speed hammer or the double dash strike hammer to really work well

[vale gate]

does static shock have an internal cooldown

[tall notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv5Kamz0M1s I actually did a Mel axe clear today!

[bright token]

oh, nice

17.20, you were zooming

[tall notch]

Somehow my staff clear was faster

[bright token]

funny thing about my run i thought it was so bad i wanted to die so many times and then i somehow got a decent duo boon, and then the armor, and then the demeter shield at the end, this was such a rollercoaster

[vale gate]

heres to more 50s to come

[drowsy kraken]

Inspiring

[tall notch]

Demeter is never gonna give you up

[drowsy kraken]

Demeter W

[bright token]

epic nova strike and 30% speed first rooms, the birthday boy

[magic moss]

DOES BRIDAL GLOW PRIME

[timber pawn]

No

[drowsy kraken]

If you mean on arrogance then no idt it counts. Like when you use the vial

[timber pawn]

I mean the boon itself does but the boons that become heroic do not prime

[drowsy kraken]

Yeah the upgraded boons dont

[tall notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927694753116614746/1261511210847703151/image.png?ex=6693395e&is=6691e7de&hm=1224a9c2652d6cb478616a9fc06ef1e40c347c436e3ad5db0e48c75ecfdc22ba& when you finish this many nights, some of them have to give favourable rng

[bright token]

the clutch block in the end, nice

i didnt know you could self-pin in the starting room of the stage

[tall notch]

I love doing that

[bright token]

also how did you restore 165 hp after one of the pins?

[limpid coral]

self pin? o;

[bright token]

the funniest moment was when you got epic mint condition and armor and gambled reroll hoping to get both in the future

[tall notch]

preserved hope

[bright token]

i dont remember the names well, from where is it?

[tall notch]

charon well, the thing that heals you after a few rooms

[bright token]

huh, is that a bug?

it says you wont restore anything with the vow

[tall notch]

It's been bypassing scars since patch 1

Idk if it's a bug or if the tooltip is wrong and it's supposed to bypass scars

[magic moss]

its a bug

[vale gate]

if a duo gets foresakened can you still get it from the other god

[tall notch]

I don't think so

[bright token]

some chess terminology, why not

[limpid coral]

I know what a chess pin is, I know what a hades 2 pin is, I know what a chess self pin is, I have no clue what a self hades 2 pin is

[tall notch]

I think they mean proccing pin on your own when there are no mobs around

[limpid coral]

You can do that in a starting room? O wait

[tall notch]

https://youtu.be/bv5Kamz0M1s?si=n__HHLZoBOPIZHCe&t=531 yeah

[limpid coral]

Right theres literally a big explodey and thorns

Escape doom by exiting the room 👍

[silent crow]

wtf it doesnt even count down

[magic moss]

i think preserved hope is like the one source of healing that is thought of to be kinda scummy

[tall notch]

Idk, it's worked this way since patch 1 and has been reported to work this way. I'll keep using that until it gets fixed

[silent crow]

pffft https://youtu.be/bv5Kamz0M1s?t=597

[magic moss]

WE LOVE SPINDLES

[tall notch]

spindle doing a little trolling 🙂

[silent crow]

you know scylla's spindle attack has an actual telegraph but the normal spindles dont have one

[vale gate]

could anyone share a blades 50f vid

[tall notch]

https://hadesglobal.vercel.app/Underworld every clear here has a video linked so just choose one of the blades aspects!

[vale gate]

perfect ty

[magic moss]

https://youtu.be/dQ3JqL_F31E?si=78l1APd1TtVyEt5v if you wanna know why i had so little oattack damage i was fully primed for almost the entirety of oceanus and fields XDD

[limpid coral]

boom?

[magic moss]

boom?

[tall notch]

Circe herself would be proud

lmaoooooooo I love the part where you're playing with graphic settings mid-Cerb fight
what was that all about @magic moss?

[magic moss]

i was losing so many frames and i was streaming to boated and he was like "are your graphics on low?" and so i checked and lowered it

you could see the frame drops it was actually getting unplayable

[tall notch]

Ngl watching this it feels like you were handicapping yourself by holding down the omegas and would've done more dps if you kept spamming normal attack 😭 This is so sad

[magic moss]

nah with rapid you actually multiply your dps during serenity its actually crazy

its like the one aspect where i think is truly hammer dependent

[tall notch]

I guess there's also Pan which like needs hook knives if you want to consider using the aspect itself

Some would also argue mel skulls are dependent on bolstered array but I don't think that's true considering that bolstered isn't even in the game

[silent crow]

i would know i patched it out myself

[tall notch]

Omg it was you 😠

[silent crow]

you'll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands now!!

[silent crow]

really

[magic moss]

yes absolutely

[silent crow]

i guess +120% is still a big number

[tall notch]

Yeah that's like a free Aphro attack

I guess

[silent crow]

how many serenity oatks can u do with rapid in one trigger

[magic moss]

like 5

[silent crow]

oh wtf

[magic moss]

combine that with sorceress and its actually insane dps for free

[silent crow]

ya thats rly good dmg actually

[magic moss]

look at my cerb fight ~33 min in

[silent crow]

i like how u completely fcking ignored serenity in the 2nd half of the fight

[magic moss]

i had no mana

[silent crow]

oh right that doesnt work

[magic moss]

couldnt proc serenity xdd

[silent crow]

thats so dumb wtf

[magic moss]

yup

[plain fossil]

I gotta say this isnt exactly the best ad for serenity lul

Good ad for manaless staff tho

[magic moss]

i absolutely despise how circe is designed and have made multiple complaints about it i just wanted a clear actually utilizing it

[tall notch]

My recent run with wicked+mirrored is probably a good manaless staff ad

[plain fossil]

I can respect this thing

[limpid coral]

unfortunately for you however you are manaless

[plain fossil]

I dont think its possible to do the same thing with mana momus so

Well it is i guess, in the sense that this spent 90% of the run using regular attack and momus can do that too

[tired fulcrum]

When staff has three omega based aspects but the best play is to ignore the crappy omegas

[plain fossil]

But u know what i mean

[magic moss]

momus is actually far easier and just a strictly better circe

momus comes out 3 times which is about the same damage as a serenity oattack from circe and you're free to do whatever while it is firing

[tall notch]

How do you actually build mana Momus? I want to mess around with it at casual fear

[limpid coral]

Circe only advantage is it is its own weird gain

[plain fossil]

Mana momus is largely a special build

Because omega attack is too slow and has bad aoe

U can run it as unseen if u want but currently im more of a born gain start fan

[magic moss]

build wise its the same as always just no pos atk or scorch, plop down an omega attack on the highest hp enemy and go after others

[tall notch]

So do you like spam omega specials? Or put one down and vibe while your turret does its thing?

[plain fossil]

Like u can play it as manaless staff and pretend the omega attack is good, like mini is suggesting, thats a better build than actual mana momus but i dont think its what ur aiming for

[plain fossil]

More the first one, but generally the advantage u have is u can reposition while dpsing so u dont have to spam so hard

It plays a bit like eos

[magic moss]

nah oattack is actually good on momus, far better than ospecial

[plain fossil]

U cant play oattack momus on its own really

If u do that ur spending half of every zone normal attacking

Which like i said, its fine build, but i dont think thats what coldshade is looking for

[magic moss]

momus as an aspect is designed to be plop down an omega move and just play like normal, repositioning it every now and then. By design you should be using more normal attacks than oattacks

[plain fossil]

I dont really think that this is a) true or b) is really the point anyway

Like if that was actually true then u wouldnt be able to have 3 turrets out at once

[tall notch]

Eos sends out its cute ghost and sends normal attacks which sounds similar to what Mini is describing actually

[plain fossil]

Anyway cold if u wanna play manaless staff with extra random omega attack then u got that setup

The omega attack is really just to kill single large enemies its got terrible aoe but the damage is good

[magic moss]

you cant get 3 turrets, placing another one down replaces the old turret

[plain fossil]

Of course u can

[magic moss]

you just play momus like eos yeah

[plain fossil]

U can have 1 turret per omega move

Total of 3 turrets

[tall notch]

From my limited testing you could have 1 turret per- what WayTooDumb said

[magic moss]

yknow what i never knew that interestingly enough

ok nvm im gonna think about it more

[plain fossil]

Im pretty sure ive played more of new momus than everyone here put together lul, im a cbt enjoyer

[tall notch]

I was trying to cook with death and alternating omegas at some point but it felt clunky

[plain fossil]

Thats because death doesnt work on turrets

U only get the crit chance on the initial omega that u drop urself

On like actual mana-only momus i like to start born gain and alternate omegas until first hammer because otherwise u have damage issues

And then build off that

I complain about oattack momus aoe quite a lot but i'll play it if i hit mirrored thrasher or sometimes vampiric cataclysm

Whereas i'll play ospecial momus if i hit double moonshot or giga moonburst

[tall notch]

Do turrets heal you off vampiric?

[plain fossil]

Honestly if u wanna clown at low fear u should play giga moonburst momus

[tall notch]

Ew hammer reliance 😭

[plain fossil]

mana momus is very hammer reliant but theres like 4 hammers ur looking for

u can also play double moonshot aph special momus which is very funny on target dummy type enemies

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/751691459580919834/1258670558975885312/image.png?ex=6692c70e&is=6691758e&hm=ae7ae2129ccc3f197f1d766dea1811cc6f75c920fe890d0014edba8b80d7d79a&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=750&height=421

[tall notch]

Pink aura??

[plain fossil]

well it is certainly pink

[sonic peak]

does anyone know if golden rule and white antler stack?

[magic moss]

they should why wouldnt they?

[sonic peak]

idk because the damage would be too crazy...?

[timber pawn]

Yes the crit from antler affects with the flat damage from golden rule. Golden rule currently adds flat damage per 100 gold instead of %

So it is very strong on fast hitting weapons

[tall notch]

This is early access, too crazy damage happens

[timber pawn]

And when you crit the flat damage is tripled

[sonic peak]

yea i just got it with 3000 gold and im wondering if i should put on white antler for chronos

thanks guy, ill go and 6 shot him

[timber pawn]

Ya you will do a boatload of damage lol

[vale gate]

I can't tell if this game gives you more boons or if it's because I'm playing lower fears

[civic ocean]

I thought they fixed that

[timber pawn]

I think they maybe attempted to but it is still flat damage for sure

[civic ocean]

Oh okay

Wait so its kinda crazy now right

if its 10 flat per 100 gold sheesh

[bleak night]

needs more crazy damage imo

[past salmon]

Yeh it's broken

[bleak night]

in H1 you can delete the Elysium duo bosses in 5 seconds

[past salmon]

True

[bleak night]

We don't have Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery with stacking Ichors this time around

[civic ocean]

Do we have way better defensive options in this game or am I trippin

[bleak night]

Nope, no deflect, no ability to destroy projectiles and no Aegis. We do have a lot of new things like armour, mint condition, Axe block and whatnot, but still.

[past salmon]

No Zeus Shield

[civic ocean]

Veneer seems like I would have really liked it against EM4 Hades

and Pin too

we have Acorn for free right

[past salmon]

If we had Zeus shield 55F would of been cleared like 8 times already

[civic ocean]

true the shield do be kinda busto

[bleak night]

They split Bull Rush into two different things

[civic ocean]

although do we think Hades 1 would be beatable at max Heat if Onion were a thing

[bleak night]

Axe Block and Skull Omega Special

[bleak night]

depends on what it replaces

[past salmon]

Probs not but it had other worse things

Like routine inspection

[bleak night]

if it was Underworld Customs, which is kinda the equivalent, then yeah

I'd honestly prefer UW Customs to the Onion

[past salmon]

Idk I like Onion, it just needs a couple things changed

[bleak night]

You think they'll bring challenge rooms back ?

[past salmon]

Imo room 2 should maybe always have a majorm

God keepsakes should force harder
Then onion is like chilling

[bleak night]

Like, the Erebus no-hit rooms in H1 that give you an onion if you fail

[past salmon]

Maybe ig

[magic moss]

think this would make onion have too little impact

think god boon r3 guarantee regardless of keepsake is better

[bleak night]

Thinking about this is why I'm excited for Surface to be finished so I can just have all 8 first rooms be major finds

also you don't really need Artificer up there so you can free up that 3

I suppose you could for Thessaly, but like just go Boatman by removing a 2cost ig