h2-builds-and-combat

[tender anvil]

@past salmon I’ve tried Moros, and gameplay wise it’s definitely not my cup of tea, think I’m gonna keep on attempting Meli

[plain fossil]

Do u have any gameplay, out of curiosity? I tried a 40f and i found the damage unpleasantly low in the second half of the run but you're attempting 50s so clearly im doing something wrong

[low bear]

Moros damage is bonkers. I did 42F first try with it

[tender anvil]

I’m recording the 50 attempts, so once a get another run to Tart I’ll share. But the answer is probably unpleasant - I’m doing full Antler runs, start to finish

[plain fossil]

Oh

That makes more sense lul okay

[low bear]

I don't have a recording though, but I had Hera attack and Zeus special iirc

[plain fossil]

I need to get better at antler its the solution a bunch

[plain fossil]

Im talking about mel torches i know moros has damage 🙂

[low bear]

oh Mel

yeah I had trouble with that one, I used Hera attack

[tender anvil]

It’s bad in the sense that you don’t get god keepsakes in Erebus and Oceanus, so rng is more miss than hit

Hera attack (or Spiteful) is the answer, yeah

[plain fossil]

I mean if u just want 1 clear and ur willing to reset 200 times

[low bear]

I think I mostly ignored the special in my winning Mel run lol lemme find my victory screen

[plain fossil]

The plan is to never click special so i hope so

[low bear]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1233146305308528650/1251520771272998922/image.png?ex=666ee10c&is=666d8f8c&hm=c92687042679e8f03628d2524bd6f0e1999cc02edc9ccbc7b1e6c9bfea8063fe&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1375&height=770

Here's what my final build looked like, I had pretty great hammers and a Hera heroic start

[plain fossil]

Ah right just get 3 good hammers

[tender anvil]

It’s that or get used to Moros, which I just don’t enjoy

[plain fossil]

Alright then brb resetting lul

[plain fossil]

I respect that, i also hate moros

[low bear]

true lol, though since you're going for 40F it shouldn't be as strict

I love Moros

[plain fossil]

Yea im sure i'll get it

40f is just inevitability

[tender anvil]

40F should be fairly easy - 7 min timer provides a lot of leeway, and Meli is very safe

[plain fossil]

50f is uh not lul

Oh yea i can just do 7 min timer

[low bear]

Nemesis screwed me from getting Coarse Grit this run too I was FUMING

[plain fossil]

The last run i did i died to timer on chronos and im a bit mad about it lul

[low bear]

5 min is rough true though I think I did use it here

5 min pretty much requires you to have a strong start or you dead

[tender anvil]

Not just strong start, but also good Erebus room rng

[low bear]

requires strong start but the tradeoff is the biomes after Erebus are much easier

[low bear]

yeah I meant Erebus in general by strong start

[plain fossil]

Yea at 40f if i click 5min timer i dont have to click revenants which i mean i mind revenants less than most ppl but theyre still bad for my blood pressure occasionally

[low bear]

Static Shock might also be a nice boon to get coupled with Hera attack

[tender anvil]

Like, I made it to Hecate with all the good boons right now (born gain, hera attack, arctic ring, mint condition), 3 defiances, but had no chaos/artemis/nemesis, so the timer is at 0. Reset time

[low bear]

Revenants are just aggravating true

[low bear]

5 min is so rough

[tender anvil]

Revenants are not bad for Flames, as your dps is very mobile

[low bear]

Revanant 2 should be worth AT LEAST 2 fear

[plain fossil]

Its still kinda annoying since although ur mobile ur way slower than actually moving and u dont wanna stop attaacking

[tender anvil]

Likewise, blue shields are ok as well, as the rate of fire is very high

[low bear]

You could also consider taking static shock, it works well with Hera attack I feel

[plain fossil]

I like static shock but i like not running out of mana more

[low bear]

but yeah I think 7 min is the play for more useable runs

[tender anvil]

Takes a lot of your mana though, so I find it bad personally

[low bear]

just hoard mana

[plain fossil]

Static shock doesnt just cost 1 boon its like 2.5 boons on a mana build

[low bear]

or get lucky with Chaos

[plain fossil]

Or maybe more like 2 boons if ur bug abusing

[low bear]

I do consciously pom epic/heroic boons to de prime magick

[plain fossil]

Yea im just gonna play 7min double revenant see how that goes

[low bear]

if you get the -1 MP hammer it's pretty huge too making static shock not as painful

[tender anvil]

At 40 I’d say skip:

• 5 min timer
• +60% adds
• +30% hp
• panic

[low bear]

I have 30% HP on constantly I dunno what else I'd drop

[tender anvil]

Should be a straightforward run

[low bear]

I think I saw in reddit someone got their omega mana cast down to 0 lol

probably 2 chaos boons and the hammer

[limpid coral]

Why would you take monster damage over monster hp?

[tender anvil]

The defensive boons pretty much negate enemy damage

[low bear]

I have both at max for high fear funs

[limpid coral]

Oh grit lol fair

[tender anvil]

Grit, Mint, Trusty Shield

[low bear]

yeah Trusty shield gives me 1 free hit per chamber, things like Mint and Grit are also great

[plain fossil]

I skipped blood instead of most of that

I should just suck less i suppose

[tender anvil]

Otherwise abuse engraved pin + coarse grit, can’t really die this way

[low bear]

I suck at estimating when chambers end so I don't like using Pin lol

[tender anvil]

With coarse grit the timer doesn’t kill you

[low bear]

Coarse is almost a run winner when I do get it online

[tender anvil]

So it’s just a mid chamber mint condition and hp top up

[low bear]

I can go full aggro on Chronos and kill his phase 2 even with less than 1 minute

I wonder how Athena will fit in with defensive boons if they add her as a main god

[limpid coral]

Like it sets u to 60hp and then u only take 15 after the timer runs out?

[tender anvil]

Yeah

[limpid coral]

Bruh

[spare kite]

As always coarse grit is the boon ever

[limpid coral]

I wonder why they didn't make it set u to like 1 and then heal to 60 afterwards

[plain fossil]

It is one of the boons of all time

[limpid coral]

Strong spirit but op

[tender anvil]

It will get patched, 100% sure

[plain fossil]

At some point we all gonna be old men on the porch going MMM REMEMBER BETA MOMUS WITH BETA COARSE GRIT AND BETA ARCTIC RING

[tender anvil]

So get your high heats while it lasts

[low bear]

ehh I don't know if it needs to be

[limpid coral]

How good would strong spirit be in this game

[plain fossil]

Coarse grit def needs an adjustment lul its a big reason why triple earth is like set in stone meta above 40f

[tender anvil]

I did a 50 Momus, and now racing against the patch time to get at least one more

[low bear]

with Onion, coarse is almost impossible to get

[plain fossil]

That, trusty shield, and arctic ring

[tender anvil]

Add born gain and mint condition to the list

[low bear]

and i haven't gotten Coarse grit in most of my 40+ clears

[plain fossil]

Ngl i think born gain is the least broken out of all theze things lul

[tender anvil]

That’s how you play antler btw, get mint and blow stuff up while invulnerable, then fall back on arctic + trusty as failsafes

[low bear]

I don't know if they really need to nerf things hard for high fear runs when it's not applicable to most players

[tender anvil]

I never personally abuse CG + pin, as the timer makes it hard without Antler

[plain fossil]

So what tends to happen in games in the internet age is that ppl that cant do stuff go on the internet to ask best ppl how to do stuff

[limpid coral]

Limit damage taken to x% max hp hm

[plain fossil]

And those ppl right now are all gonna say go click triple earth

[limpid coral]

Nah then u sit at 30hp and win

[plain fossil]

Which means even if ur not doing high heat ur gonna get recommendation of coarse grit etc

[low bear]

at lower fear things like mint and CG aren't nearly as impactful when enemies don't hit as hard and you have regular healing

trusty too

[plain fossil]

I mean sure but things like damage boons is less impactful without a timer

Like everything u do is less impactful ofc it is the game is just easier

[low bear]

yes but CG/Mint/Trusty's value balloons much higher at higher fear

[plain fossil]

It does

[low bear]

and getting build recommendations is player choice anyway

[plain fossil]

In any case i do expect sgg to change up coarse grit in particular because of how much fear it lets u ignore

[low bear]

like I could also just tell someone to slap Zeus and Eris in h1 and get an easy win

I think learning what builds are good is part of the "progression" of the player as they play. Whether or not they choose to hasten the progression or skip it entirely by looking online is up to them

[plain fossil]

I mean sure but two responses to that: 1) generally games are balanced largely around the ppl at the top rather than the bottom, because ppl at the bottom have the additional balance lever of fixing their issues by getting better

[round shell]

uh

i dont really like the torches bc of that

and i maxxed melino

aspect of melinoë*

[plain fossil]

2. i would suggest that the intended "top" of the game is currently 32 and probably going to stay 32 due to statues and rewards and whatnot, and triple earth is at least imo already quite a bit too good at that level

[round shell]

my fav weapon keeps being Pan

[plain fossil]

And yea i take ur point that triple earth is EVEN BETTER at 40+, thats true, but even at 32 theres to me obviously enough there to whack at least arctic ring coarse grit and born gain, and probably trusty and mint as well

U could argue mint isnt broken enough at 32 i guess

[low bear]

I'd argue imbalance is also a core element of rougelikes too

and at 32 yes I think triple earth is the strongest build, but I don't think it's so much stronger than other options out there

I think a slight nerf would suffice, and a slight buff for other builds/boons

but I don't think it really needs a full whack

[plain fossil]

Well at the very least i think arctic ring needs a full whack that boon is way too good for every build at every fear

[cursive ruin]

Did they change soot sprint? It sometimes failed to nullify eris' attacks

[plain fossil]

It does not need to do damage

[calm arch]

AAA throwbacks

[cursive ruin]

I finally managed to beat 32 fear underworld but 32 surface is kicking my ass

Revenant feels infinitely worse on surface than underworld cuz of how many enemies can summon other enemies😭

[calm arch]

have you tried persephone storm ring?

[violet crow]

ive done 32 fear on axe, skull, and flames now but I'm still stuck on staff and blades. any suggestions?

[plain fossil]

Manaless aspectless attack staff is the current meta

The usual stuff, click double attack hammer +30 attack hammer and whack things

Blades pan is still miles ahead of everything else so just do that

[violet crow]

it seems frustrating to have to rely on hammer rng but i'll try it. Thanks!

[calm arch]

you can take momus and turn off vow of panic and let the base omegas carry you through first 2 zones

then you aren't forced to quit if no erebus hammer

[plain fossil]

Yea it also gives u a lot more flexibility

Like if u dont hit a good attack hammer but u do hit giga moonburst u can just pivot

Momus on its own is a pretty good and flexible 32 aspect its just imo not as good as manaless staff

[limpid coral]

do you use strength on your 40+ runs?

[low bear]

nope Strength isn't usually worth it

White Antler is though

[limpid coral]

Im just cruising at low hp and i can't tell if strength + scars 3 is making me play better or worse lmao

[round shell]

whats your fav weapon/aspect??

[limpid coral]

ok are trial of the gods rooms in tartarus always like actually 5 waves

[dim kestrel]

think I can guess what yours is...

[short delta]

you guys gotta try aspect of than with the big chop hammer and aphrodite attack boon

EVIL levels of damage, ion know how to send damage pics but i did 200k from attacks alone with the epic boon

[dim kestrel]

did a run last night with Than where I got that one with an anvil right before Chronos; combined it with Executioner's chop

was running Hera attack and Hestia cast... origination go brrrr

[tender anvil]

Ok, I’m fuming right now. Finally got a good 50 flames run going - coarse grit, spiteful strength, all the good stuff. Arriving at echo I was agnostic between evade and dd refill, just wanted something. Que damn Nemesis, who gives me extra hp (on an antler run). Had to take engraved pin to survive tartarus, and timed out on Chronos p2.

That crap is really tilting

[spare kite]

Can't wait for incantation
Glue trap

[limpid coral]

nemesis sure does exist make your run worse with no counterplay

[tender anvil]

That’s the second time Echo room screws my 50 Flames, previously she provided neither evade nor dd refill, and I ended up in the same situation (died in tart due to keeping antler)

[low bear]

does echo keepsake work on hammers

[knotty fulcrum]

what aspect?

[tough pasture]

i'm this way about zag sword special in hades 1 early access...

zag sword special used to have instantaneous damage + effect which combined with athena special conferred a massive advantage - pretty much made the player invincible. (You can still see it in one of the NoClip documentaries.)

SgG slowed it down so that the effect had a lag and so players could no longer reliably deflect every incoming damage...

[tender anvil]

Meli flames. Moros is probably better, but I just don’t like the gameplay

[manic narwhal]

Just got this run on surface:
Aspect of Medea Skull
Vulcanic Strike + Furnace Blast
Possessed array
Keen Intuition
Looming Ignition

Would love another hammer with automatic pickups but I think this build is fun as heck since anytime you pick up a skull it will trigger keen intuition and do extra damage with the medea skull already being pretty reliant on comboing a lot in close range

Also any form of extra movement speed/atk speed while your hex isnt up will work well with this build since you dont want to use your omega attacks themselves

[steel sequoia]

looks pretty good with keen intuition

im the lone wolf enjoying the persephone aspect looks like

[manic narwhal]

I like that one as well, just dont have any fun builds in my mind and dont really play much skull either way, only for the fear challenges

[faint spear]

Persephone skull is my preferred one, having a good cast (Zeus/Apollo/probably Poseidon are all nice) + the one hammer upgrade that makes omega special waves go back to you can mean a lot of damage

[fickle glade]

somehow Momus double my cast with Hades cast throw hmmm literally has two skulls flying out

[true perch]

Is there a weapon that feels like the bow from Bastion in H2?

[knotty fulcrum]

meli runs with special only or you use attacks

[inland rock]

guys which cast is better for aspect of persephoene apollo or zues

[robust prism]

probably Zeus I think but not by much

[frail sable]

whats a good build for aspect of thanatos

[robust prism]

I think Zeus as a god in general is more useful for Persephone than Apollo is, so I'd go with that

[gritty heath]

man I think this the first time ive lost to the oceanus timer and its because i got back to back of those really big rooms filled with sea serpents

not sure how to do those faster

[tired fulcrum]

Sea serpents

[limpid coral]

enemies that don't run at you :(

[gritty heath]

idk if that room being smaller would make the room easier or harder lol

[nova cairn]

earth trio + zeus

my personal goal has been 32 fear on every weapon, just got staff and torch left and I for the life of me do not know what to run

[gritty heath]

i havent picked anything but staff for the last 30 or so runs

is the most fun for me by far

[faint spear]

One thing Apollo has that Zeus doesn’t is the cast expansion, which can be really nice if you want to charge up glory quickly

[tired fulcrum]

Having to wait 3 seconds for your cast to go off is the opposite of charging up glory quickly tho

[thorn dagger]

Aspect of Thanatos is not that great, in my opinion. At the end of the day, it's +40% dmg on average, which is not that much. Big numbers look cool, but don't be fooled by them. What matters is your overall dmg/s.

What's potentially appealing is that distribution is very non-uniform, which can lead to damage spikes, and therefore to better performance. However, in practice, I find that it's simply outclassed by the benefits of other aspects, and, most importantly, by Daedalus Hammer Specials.

[tired fulcrum]

Than is 13% crit at max stacks now

[civic ocean]

what's the damage increase from the increased attack speed

[thorn dagger]

I don't know. I am modder, so I still play on the previous build. They changed the aspect with the last patch, didn't they? I remember the patch notes now. Disregard what I've said.

[cursive oyster]

i mean 30% attack speed i would argue is more than 30% multiplicative damage because you can afford to go for riskier hits

its pretty good

[thorn dagger]

yep, you're right.

[thorn dagger]

In theory, the best build should be Blitz.

Blitz serves as a multiplicative damage increase as long as you do below 120 dmg/attack. However, in practice, there is a delay between Blitz applications, so it ends up being much less damage than it should on paper.

We'd need to crunch the numbers in order to tell which combination is best, but I think you can't go wrong with Hera/Hephaestus Omega Special.

[thorn dagger]

Sister Blades is the closest you'll get.

[wind kettle]

I've been hardstuck trying to get a build going to finish 40 heat. I've managed to get to chronos p2 several times, but idk

most of the runs I did where I got far were either with axe m, either melinoe or Thanatos or melinoe skull

but the skull is so contingent on getting a good boon that idk

[still girder]

if you want to try max heat, is Crystal Figurine pretty much mandatory?

or does it not work?

[cursive oyster]

doesn’t work iirc

also one arcana card isnt doin much work i think

[past salmon]

Doesn't work.
Plus Ur actually never getting out of Erebus without Antler or some other early game booster on anyway

[tender anvil]

Actually attack only, playing like old Eos

@past salmon made it to Chronos a couple times today, but choked on timer, as I failed to scale the damage

[past salmon]

rip

u got it hella soon tho nice progress

[civic ocean]

What fear

[past salmon]

50F

[civic ocean]

Oh damn thats based

[tender anvil]

Still Meli, not Moros. Tried Moros, but don’t feel it

[civic ocean]

Kinda unfortunate that we were like 🤓 "well obviously SGG doesn't like 1 button builds that's why they changed Momus" and then immediately just started running different 1 button builds at 50 lmao

[past salmon]

Hey im still not running 1 button builds!

[tender anvil]

Yeah, I’m just too dumb to use all 3 buttons, two (attack + cast) is my ceiling

[civic ocean]

Same tbh

I don't think I have a 3 button build at 32

[tender anvil]

That’s part of the reason I didn’t like Moros

[civic ocean]

Moros has theoretical upside but I'm not sure it's practically feasible to use the basic special to reliably pop the ghosta

[tender anvil]

Well, Meli Flames 50 is much, much harder than old Momos. Needs pretty much perfect rng

[civic ocean]

Like I think if we did a TAS, Moros could do 55

[tender anvil]

I actually did a split run 55 Momus

[past salmon]

I've got 2 runs to tart on 50F Moros now and I only started doing attempts like 12hrs ago so
I do think Moros could push past 50F with amazing RNG

[tender anvil]

Mechanically the numbers were there for Momos, just needed not to die

[civic ocean]

Yeah it seems like it has incredible upside

[tall notch]

Looking at the aspect changes, I feel like they're trying too hard to make the "you should use every button in your kit" thing happen

[gritty heath]

yea im getting the same impression and its frustrating

[merry flint]

it would be easier to just give us more boons

this cast ain't gonna work itself

[tall notch]

Old Momus wasn't a problem because it didn't attack. It was a problem because it hit way too hard and the one button you pressed was way too safe with its range+homing

[gritty heath]

New momus is cool, but I wish they still had an aspect for non omega playstyles on staff

[trim sky]

Interesting. For me, I felt like the aspect changes were split between pushing a number of aspects further into specific niches while making others more 'all-arounders'.

[past salmon]

Is there any aspect change in specific you really don't like?
I am happy with pretty much every change from last patch
I think new Eos could use buffs but conceptually its very cool

[silent crow]

new eos is ehh

[gritty heath]

old eos was more fun

[tall notch]

I'm not a fan of all staff aspects being some flavour of "make omegas better" and old Eos shouldn't have been removed. Whatever they're trying to cook with new Eos is interesting but that could've been left for a hidden aspect OR Meli torches could work like old Eos

[silent crow]

circe still needing a rework after the rework is hilarious

[gritty heath]

circe should be made the attack focused aspect

[silent crow]

theres a Morph status in the game that exists and they didnt give it to CIRCE

[merry flint]

Serenity kinda sucks when you realize how bloody long the omega attack takes to charge

[silent crow]

serenity is ok but momus is js better

[past salmon]

I mean I think new Momus is awesome and the staff aspects centering around Omegas sucks sure but this isnt rlly an issue with what was changed but rather with what wasn't
LIke Circe and Mel aspects should of been reworked.

Old Eos was cool but idk it felt a little dull to me

[merry flint]

mel flames is definitely a ???

[silent crow]

arent mel flames basically unchanged

[merry flint]

yeah but like because its the only one that doesn't have a janky gimmick on primary fire its used for its primary fire and its only buff is to its omega special which is something moros would want instead

[gritty heath]

that kinda feels like eos fault moreso than mel, but yes i agree that it sucks that is the case

[tall notch]

They are the only aspect that can really use the buffed torch attack between Eos being its own thing and Moros ghosts colliding with each other

[merry flint]

moros ghosts really turns me off tbh

[past salmon]

I mean Moros LOVES the buffed torch attack if you just play it how it is intended to be played

[tall notch]

Like if you want to play ranged torches you're left with Mel aspect and not using its ability

[silent crow]

i never understood why ppl care so much about pressing one button

[past pewter]

Aspects that just spam one button are boring

[merry flint]

carpal tunnel

[past pewter]

Especially now that we dont have as many dash strike builds

[silent crow]

the one button builds give u more of that bruh

[gritty heath]

One button builds are the most fun for me

[merry flint]

(and other repetitive stress disorders)

[gritty heath]

(not counting cast as a button)

[merry flint]

oh i thought you were talking about people against those

[gritty heath]

idt theres anything wrong with enjoying simple builds

[silent crow]

the game doesnt want it to be that easy and it shouldnt be that easy but it still is

[merry flint]

for the record, i enjoy spamming m1 at the cost of my hands (i take frequent breaks to relax my hand dw)

[past pewter]

The only thing in h1 comparable to old momus in h1 was Rama special spam, which wasnt even the optimal way to play that aspect

[tall notch]

The push towards "you're supposed to use all your buttons" resulted in torches not having an intended ranged playstyle. That's what bothers me

[silent crow]

i kinda like that about them

[tired fulcrum]

Idk i want old eos back

[gritty heath]

but you can understand why people would be bothered by "my favorite playstyle was removed from the weapon"

[merry flint]

mood

[silent crow]

the best way to use old eos was also to go semi melee to get the ghosts to hit things faster

[past pewter]

What even was old eos

[silent crow]

dashing recalls ghosts

[tired fulcrum]

Inverted spark but better

[merry flint]

Inverted Spark

[silent crow]

idk why they reworked it it was awesome

[spare kite]

Ghosts linger and grow in dmg, dash to recall

[merry flint]

oh and the ghosts got a size buff after travelling

[silent crow]

theres no aspect that revolved around dashing

[gritty heath]

i loved old eos, hera attack with ghosts to help spread hitch felt so cozy

[merry flint]

i enjoyed getting kill confirms by just accumulating ghosts and yanking them back by dashing

[gritty heath]

also I do not think the difficulty of a build is strongly associated with how many buttons it presses

[past pewter]

If old momus sucked then it would be fine

[silent crow]

it isnt but 1 button builds being op and easy is dumb

[past pewter]

And safe

[silent crow]

im glad theyre drifting away from it but some stuff feels super artificial

[gritty heath]

any build being "op" is just as problematic as one button builds being that strong. more buttons does not justify being broken

[past pewter]

I disagree

The op builds should require more particular inputs imo

[gritty heath]

its the same argument people use in fighting games when they say "oh this character is insanely broken, but its okay because they're hard"

[silent crow]

well things are usually less of a balance problem if theyre more complicated thats js hoe it goes

[tall notch]

The amount of people saying torches are bad before the patch tells me Eos was NOT easy

[silent crow]

ywah thats in a fighting game not a singleplayer progression roguelite

[gritty heath]

it's the same argument of "difficulty justifies strength"

[past pewter]

If a hard character is bad, then what’s the point

[tired fulcrum]

Old eos was more interesting and complex than old momus

[past pewter]

Unless they’re insanely fun to use, nobody gonna use them

[silent crow]

new momus isnt even that complex its just funny

[past pewter]

New momus is a lot more fun than old

[silent crow]

press 3 omega moves and stuff dies

[gritty heath]

I'm not saying complex aspects need to be bad, just that one button builds shouldn't be nerfed on the basis of being a one button build

[silent crow]

oh old momus

[tired fulcrum]

Old momus you could just sit in the corner of the room and snipe stuff behind your cast

[gritty heath]

if a one button build is too strong, sure, nerf it. but dont nerf it by killing the playstyle

[past pewter]

That creates another chaos situation

[silent crow]

i feel like h1 handled one button builds really well

[merry flint]

my character is hard AND bottom tier now what

[gritty heath]

I am completely content in a world where weapons all have one button builds and none of them are top tier

[past pewter]

Yeah

[silent crow]

on most weapons ur always at a disadvantage if you only press one button

[gritty heath]

again, I'm not saying complex aspects need to be bad

[past pewter]

They all sucked for dps but were safe

[silent crow]

even random seemingly braindead garbage like spear exploding launcher gains dps from mixing in dash attavks

and the one button builds that were actually encouraged were on the bow and fists. the weapons that required you to time shots or give up all your range

[gritty heath]

I miss bow 😦

[tired fulcrum]

Demeter and talos had you use special tho

[past pewter]

Fists were best played by mixing in casts/specials anyway

[gritty heath]

I'm hoping the last weapon is a bow but theres a piece of dialogue that suggests mel cant shoot

[past pewter]

Gilga/zagfists just sucked so thats fine

[merry flint]

bow would CLEAR hades 2

[silent crow]

fist aspects are boring and suck

[tired fulcrum]

Demeter is good tho

[merry flint]

fists my beloved

[silent crow]

i feel nothing towards it

[merry flint]

yeah but can she gamble

[past pewter]

Gilgas one button build leaves you incredibly unsafe because you lose iframes by dash striking

[silent crow]

gilga sucks so bad omg

[heady hinge]

we already have a bow lmao

[tired fulcrum]

Gilga is like top 4 fists tho

[past pewter]

Unless u get divine dash 🙄

[silent crow]

holy true

[merry flint]

einstein is on the phone rn for you

[still girder]

isn't new momus still good? you can still get double dps for free right

[silent crow]

its good but not "mash special to win the game and lose your fingers" good

[still girder]

also yay finished 32 heat clears for chronos and eris

surprised how you only need like, middling luck to get consistent dubs with mel skull

i didn't even get any real hammers

[silent crow]

not too many weapons need a lot of luck anymore imo

to just have fun with at least

[still girder]

just one that went on the special
so, i can beat high fear settings with mel skull
what other weapons have really cracked "you gotta try this crazy build" builds?

[silent crow]

moros torches are busted

[still girder]

moros torches? rog

[gritty heath]

I started my 45 fear attempts last night, goddamn 300% on first hit hurts until I get heph

[merry flint]

my moros torches aren't fully upgraded yet

[still girder]

what's the spice on the moros torches? arcana recs?

[silent crow]

huntress, the explosions are affected by it

[merry flint]

and farming nightmare sucks asssssssssssssss

[silent crow]

you want to omega spec and then hold attacks at mid range

[past pewter]

Medea is like beowulfXfists

[silent crow]

zeus on special and hera on attack are the best for it i think

[past pewter]

Pretty craaazy

[still girder]

yeah i didn't see heph til early on the boats on my last run (surface 32 heat) and it was brutal

[past salmon]

112!!

[silent crow]

why r u taking that vow on 32f

[still girder]

ephyra will eat your DDs for breakfast if you're not on point

idk it seemed like it was easy! i take it on all my 32f, you just play safe until u hit heph and blam

[silent crow]

a gambler i see

[merry flint]

you have 10 dice don't you

[silent crow]

respect

[wind kettle]

I don't like how if you wanna push high heat you basically remove one element of your whole toolkit

[still girder]

nah just 6 dice

[wind kettle]

the mana priming vow should be replaced imho

[silent crow]

i didnt even take it for the one 40f run i did i didnt trust my luck even though i got coarse grit and 55% bonus dmg from martial art

[gritty heath]

112?

[silent crow]

Damage

[past pewter]

It’s a lot higher than 112…

[past salmon]

Lurkers
Im pretty sure thats what they are called
They do the biggest(?) damage number in erebus

[gritty heath]

ah

[still girder]

i hate when you're in erebus and you get yeeted for a stray 80

ALSO the harpies that throw those massive expanding AOEs can go die in a fire

[merry flint]

51232847601582910773490610013067546813865700559248923248840140611137895336509440000000000000

[still girder]

i hate that enemy. as bad as spindle spam rooms

[steady yoke]

did not know you could raise one of the sirens with the the path of stars ability!! special dialogue too

[still girder]

whoa

[steady yoke]

"what did you do to her???" idk i just pressed f girlie nothing persional

[still girder]

aight upgraded my moros torches

[past salmon]

based

[still girder]

what do i slap on these? i've never used torches before

[past salmon]

whatever ur heart desires

[silent crow]

any % based atk and whatever special

[past salmon]

just get like a %damage boost on attack

[past pewter]

Whats the base damage of the blast

[past salmon]

Moros damage numbers be like 📈

[silent crow]

who knows!

[still girder]

so, charge special then spam attack?

[past salmon]

idk I always have it modified by smth lmao

[silent crow]

ya

idk if i want to feedbacj moros being broken bc man its so fun

[spare kite]

Is like 160? Iirc for omega ghost explosions
Accounting for the +60% from the own aspect

[silent crow]

oh so 100 for omega then

[still girder]

should i be irresponsible and greed for poseidon / aphro duo on moros torches for maximum giga damage

[past pewter]

Yeah thats baller

[silent crow]

ur always gonna be close range its not gonna do anything

[spare kite]

I noticed once during a surface run cuz I didn't see 210 dmg and went "wait a sec"
Forgot to swap moon for huntress

[still girder]

oh ok, so just aphro attack + 3 earths then

[silent crow]

ya that works

[still girder]

booba meta

[past salmon]

It definitely feels crazy
I think it only needs slight nerfs tho tbh
Its a magick reliant weapon that also requires you to be in your enemies face

[silent crow]

it isnt even that close range tho

[past salmon]

I mean it is fairly close range

[silent crow]

and it has insane aoe

[still girder]

oh wait is hera just better to get her in the god pool? she gives the 2nd best attack% and then gets you born gain sooner

[past salmon]

Hera is best start yeh

[silent crow]

yep

[still girder]

i need to mess with my arcana. is it born gain or attack first?

[silent crow]

i prefer born gain but its up to u

[past salmon]

gain but idk you can probs manage erebus without gain at low fear

[spare kite]

Gain start is comfy

You already have like +110% between aspect/huntress lol

[still girder]

huntress doesn't care about priming, right?

[silent crow]

moros is so good boonless its actualy crazy

[limpid coral]

uh are the anchor guys on surface just like sometimes immune to stagger

[silent crow]

if you prime your entire bar it doesnt work but yeah

[silent crow]

140% with a cast jesus christ

[still girder]

this is low fear so i guess i don't want Strength on

[past pewter]

Arty attack would go so insanely hard in this game with how much free additive you get

[silent crow]

i love being able to spam out 240 dmg blasts with no attack boon

[silent crow]

honestly the game feels so much better with all these dmg buffs

[past pewter]

Allows for a lot more flexibility

[silent crow]

i never feel that weak in a run

even on the run where i had mel axe with no hammers no origination and only aphro attack on 32f it was salvageable

[past pewter]

Tbf in h1 you shouldnt ever feel that weak either

[past salmon]

I had a 49F Moros run die to timer in Chronos because of no attack boon the whole run it was tragix

[silent crow]

there were a lot of times when i felt like things didnt scale well at all

[past pewter]

Well im biased because i played that game far too much but it was rare for me to feel like i had no damage under like 45 heat

[past salmon]

Yeh you could always get strong in H1 I feel idk

[past pewter]

All u needed to do is throw yourself in the lava if you didnt get rush delivery

[silent crow]

maybe ir was just the last two areas of that game sucking total ass

[past pewter]

Nah

[silent crow]

styx is so tedious istg

[past pewter]

Poseidon demolishes Styx

[silent crow]

yeah and if you dont have him you get owned

even the music sucks in that area

[past pewter]

Worst part about Styx is rats

[silent crow]

no but fr that was like one of the only good scaling options past ur basic stuff

[past pewter]

The well was far more impactful than in h2

Like my speed pb in h1 doesnt have rush delivery

[silent crow]

ehh 50% omega move dmg is great

charon keepsake not being hourglass sucks a little tho

[past pewter]

If it lasted 14 rooms it would be better

[frosty sparrow]

The axe is now in an insane place. One hammer is a straight extra 80% damage on the omega attack, Add in a boons froms say apollo/aphro to boost attack when you have high health, havent taken damage and weed killer from demeter and my omega attack was easilly doing 400 per proc and it procs 10 times.

[spare kite]

Charon just stole hypnos's purse

[storm horizon]

for me biggest issue is that it has a lot of options of metaprogression stuff and they tend to clutter the pool to much

[past pewter]

Wonder what sleepy hypnos’ keepsake will be

[silent crow]

yeahh and no dank foresight

[storm horizon]

we got the 'last for 2 bosses' buff to remedy this though

[past pewter]

For 1 item

[silent crow]

kinda

[past pewter]

Hourglass is way better

[storm horizon]

yup

[silent crow]

but in h1 you could buy out a well with hourglass and become an unkillable god for an entire region

[past pewter]

Probably for the best because hourglass was just broken

[storm horizon]

which was my problem with it

[silent crow]

and every other keepsaje sucked...

[spare kite]

Also rolls don't refresh stock here

[storm horizon]

the 1 item for 2 bosses can still be strong

though it's hilariously awefull with the gain a lot of hp after 4 encounters

[past pewter]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/852223080159903774/1251631922795380788/IMG_0742.png?ex=666f4890&is=666df710&hm=2b059e1d013ab40535cac6b83f465f6cd629839eeae9518c30a844a14078e790& none of this though

[silent crow]

that item healing through the 0% healing vow is so funny

[past salmon]

Funny bug

[still girder]

huh, first boon hera (born gain), second boon heph (trusty shield), third boon Spiteful Strength LMAO

[past pewter]

Gg

[still girder]

so this 0 fear run has +200 damage on special and attack in erebus

kind of feels wasteful ngl

[past salmon]

Bro can you give me this for my 50F wtf

[still girder]

IKR this game is so mean

[silent crow]

only 6 rolls too right

[still girder]

i didn't roll at all

[wind kettle]

does The Huntress arcana card (more attack and special damage if under 100% mana) work with the mana priming vow?

[silent crow]

pffft

[past salmon]

God giveth

[spare kite]

Oh c'mon

[still girder]

wait that's a lie i rolled twice

BUT where can i post screenshots

[silent crow]

for shield i assume

[past salmon]

Priming is treated as just lower max magic

[storm horizon]

nope

[past pewter]

If you prime all your magick then u lose the buff

[spare kite]

Just use panic instead

[still girder]

once for shield, once for gain yeah. hera boons were special and some other stuff i didn't care for

[spare kite]

Send to another discord > right click > copy link
(Or tap img then 3 dots if mobile)

[still girder]

aha thanks

[past pewter]

They should realllly change that rule imo

[still girder]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238161959908806687/1251632991311233084/20240615132159_1.jpg?ex=666f498f&is=666df80f&hm=f12843d160970a078acba95a86bb7563eba2c66b46b040bc09fdb887e315eab5&

[spare kite]

If they change how dyno catches spam maybe (even if sometimes bots slip through)

[still girder]

born gain is at +2 because i bought a rando pom slice from a shop before this and had a forced pom earlier on

was hoping the random slice would hit armor but meh, you have infinite money on low fear anyway

[spare kite]

Well, gg lmfao

[past pewter]

Shackle 2

[still girder]

hey i have no clue how to use this, i'm just doing omega spesh and then face diving people with attack spam

[spare kite]

You already know then

[still girder]

origin coil, sustained spark, or clean candle? (60% faster specials that orbit where launched, move and fire 20% faster while channeling attacks, channel omega attack 50% faster for -1 magic)

[spare kite]

Candle

[still girder]

oh ok i should be omega attacking?

[spare kite]

I like spark but I'm just an addict to atk speed

[spare kite]

Yeah

Omega special > hold attack > idk, win or smth

[silent crow]

ya theres enough time for u to sneak in omega atks during omega special duration

[spare kite]

Also remember you can cast even while mid attaci

[silent crow]

never take origin coil

also never take experimental hammer bc of that

thats like the one true brick hammer still left in the game lol

[spare kite]

Origin applies to omegas too right

[still girder]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1237561495160750144/1251634854961877112/20240615132916_1.jpg?ex=666f4b4b&is=666df9cb&hm=496eeb5e4f673a07c43f83d1b385d7fbee3276ae9d205d68a4b9761f7d76d47d&

[silent crow]

yes it sucks so bad

[still girder]

this game is sentient, look at this rng, where is this on my higher heat runs

[silent crow]

manifesting chaos creation into narcissus +all elements into martial art

[spare kite]

Smth smth amir controls everyone's runs

[still girder]

wait narcissus has a keepsake?

[spare kite]

Yes but also he has an extra offering after you do his prophecy

[silent crow]

one of his gifts gives you all the elements

[spare kite]

His keepsake makes fountains heal more/rarify a common boon to rare/epic/heroic

[still girder]

wow, well we got molten touch and some other random crap from hera. because everything else they offered on both rolls was attack/special

keen intuition. useless but it's 1 earth

[silent crow]

if you get demeter you can still get origination with this build somehow

[still girder]

demeter cast is poggers

[spare kite]

Eh, I would've taken the special for easier origination/earth
Not like omega special does that much

Hitch is just fun too

[silent crow]

omega special dmg is pretty decent

[still girder]

i bet it'll show back up

oh well, the damage is so high that i could probably warp straight to chronos and win

yay arctic ring

sworn flourish or Proper Upbringing?

i guess flourish for the hitch aoe? you're right that the specials are less important except as attack proccers

[silent crow]

aww but the meme tho

[spare kite]

I mean you still have spiteful on attack

[still girder]

flourish is still an earth

WAIT

that deactivated it? wow okay hades, thank you for the warning

[spare kite]

It only deactivates for special no

[still girder]

ah gotcha

triple helix? sustained spark?

triple helix seems the most straightforward "proc more" buff

[silent crow]

what even is sustained spark

[still girder]

20% faster move and fire speed while channeling attacks

[silent crow]

oh

[still girder]

that IS 20% extra attacks

[silent crow]

it doesnt matter much tbh either is good

[still girder]

i think i want that. that's where the damage is?

[silent crow]

yeah but with triple helix more attacks will land on specials

torch hammers are very well balanced so its not a huge decision

[still girder]

gotcha, triple helix it is!

[spare kite]

Don't think I've ever gotten an useless torch set of hammers lol

[still girder]

let's go, 7 earth martial art

bought aphro sprint literally just to have an origination activator

drop cast, sprint, spam. better than nothing.

[spare kite]

Remember that aphro is a dash so you can just do it mid attack

Same for cast assuming you don't have a ranged one

[still girder]

oh dope didn't know about dash

what do i even take here for chronos

[spare kite]

Yeah aphro still has a dash boon instead of sprint boon

[still girder]

i have all the hammers i want, don't wanna brick it by mistake. chaos egg?

used hera, heph, demeter already

[limpid coral]

Bell for funni

[tired fulcrum]

Tooth or antler or fleece are usually nice

[spare kite]

Hermes for funny speed

[limpid coral]

Pin for more funni

[still girder]

i have come to the conclusion that it literally doesn't matter so i'm gonna level up sash so i can do my crimson dress meme run sometime

[silent crow]

you havent done a real moros run until you get these boons and still take an embarrassing amount of dmg from chronos https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1233146305308528650/1251375114797187172/image.png?ex=666f0224&is=666db0a4&hm=f45bd7d9f391fb262bec139a974e1c183e1e8a4e276da57d98629490b83555bb&

[spare kite]

I love the most dmg taken stat ngl

[silent crow]

forces people to out themselves

what the hell is a blood shade

[spare kite]

Fields, the ones who like dash like a cruise missile towards you

[silent crow]

embarassing

[still girder]

wow

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238161959908806687/1251644187686736004/20240615140658_1.jpg?ex=666f53fc&is=666e027c&hm=583fca2fe8ea6c8a2d253a382f9a1043fd2d430fe161b1e191ef05ced68a8b53&

well there you go, thanks for the moros rec. these are super fun

[spare kite]

Welcome to the totally not a cult gang of moros

[still girder]

all my "most damage" was just from standing next to bosses to DPS them with armor up

[silent crow]

lethal snare too lmfao

[still girder]

uwu

[silent crow]

omega special actually put in work hmm

[still girder]

i was casting 2 omega specials to proc 100% of my attacks

4 orbiters is enough to catch it all, 6 is overkill imo.

[silent crow]

ohh ok

[violet temple]

im being forced to take every max magic pot because I took static shock and weed killer on my omega attack torch build 💀

[magic moss]

does medea care more about atk boons or special boons

[past salmon]

Attack

Special is nice tho
Like Zeus mainly

[wind kettle]

how do yall manage to get coarse grit on high fear runs, did a few 40 fear runs and havent seen it yet

[magic moss]

you just get lucky unironically

[turbid bridge]

they nerfed carontes axe?

[weak cosmos]

Is it normal for keepsakes to work after unequipped? I picked Selene's keepsake in Fields, didn't get a path of stars, switched, and in the tartarus endshop I got a boosted path of stars

[frosty sparrow]

sure it wasnt boosted from phase of the moon

[forest hinge]

Does anyone have an Vow-setup for Pan?

[weak cosmos]

It was 9 upgrades

[frosty sparrow]

Keepsakes seem wierd, taking of silk wrap removes the armor it provided, but the hammer gives you a new weapon emcahnic for 20 encounters and switching the keepsake doesnt remove it.

[frosty sparrow]

Possible a poseidon boon interaction as well but otherwise seems like a bug I think

[weak cosmos]

Yeah I had the raise keepsake level boon

[tired fulcrum]

https://imgur.com/a/m9j2Ywn why does daggers dashstrike always just randomly decide to not work

[sick tide]

Can either Mel torches or Mel skulls work with ranged builds? I’m trying to stop just using Momus and Charon, but I’ve developed a strong preference for not getting close to enemies

[silent crow]

mel skulls are ok at range

[proud mulch]

did rn a pretty good run with axe and i tried to get apollos legendary and one deadalus hammer that allows me to shoot my special 2 times. got all of them and i thought im gonna shoot my special 3 times but no... idk know why but it doesnt stacks. like why not or is it a bug idk???

[azure crow]

any tips to defeat Eris?

[spare kite]

Hug the pillars/dash behind her

Run away for the sniper shot instead of tanking it with a pillar

[azure crow]

and what about the weapon?

i tried to use the skulls and axe

[spare kite]

If you are doing charon aspect, picking a ranged cast you can just poke her from far away

But just do whatever you are most comfortable with

[dim kestrel]

Pan Daggers and Charon axe are probably the easiest here, and in general any ranged cast with any weapon

[limpid coral]

if you play axe then you can alternate dash and shield to block most hits

super useful if you get caught in the shotgun

[azure crow]

thxs guys

[dim kestrel]

and of course Soot Sprint pretty much negates her

[limpid coral]

also the shield lasts long enough to full block every attack in the last phase

[dim kestrel]

axe is just such a comfy weapon

[rigid raft]

what fear setups do you guys use for each weapon on fears 20 & 24? gotta get those chronos kills now

[weak cosmos]

take lvl2 arrogance, lvl2 fury, forsaking, lvl2 wandering, some desperation and some cheap ones (more mobs, enemies have more hp) for the remainder

[rigid raft]

thanks

[dim kestrel]

core 20F for most weapons would I think be something like

Dominance 3 (3F)
Fury 1 (3F)
Wandering 2 (3F)
Scars 2 (2F)
Destitution 2 (2F)
Forsaking (2F)
Arrogance 2 (4F)
Desperation 1 (1F)

with caveats about Fury and Desperation both of which are really heavily dependent on personal "muscle memory" kinda thing

Fury 2 is worth a lot of fear, but if you're not used to it it definitely causes you to take more damage

and a lot of people here run Desperation 2 regularly, but I personally hate it

for daggers you can add Rebuke 2 without too much pain; for big AoE weapons (Charon axe, for instance), Commotion is pretty easy to handle

if you're planning on Hephaestus, you can heavily mitigate Suffering with Trusty Shield

[dusty sapphire]

desperation2 is honestly free though

[dim kestrel]

it's not

[dusty sapphire]

definitely way more so than scars2 in a world without stubborn defiance

[dim kestrel]

not in Erebus, specifically

if you don't run out of time in Erebus, then it's pretty free beyond that, but 7:00 Erebus is tight, imo

[dusty sapphire]

Desperation3 for 5min is definitely hard in Erebus but I don't think there's ever been a run past my first few times defeating Chronos where I was >7min in Erebus

[alpine topaz]

what gods go well with aspect of charon? im about to try it for the first time and i dont know what keepsake to pick, nothing is really standing out

[dusty sapphire]

solar ring is the classic

[dim kestrel]

lots of things work, but I like Demeter cast, Hera special

[dusty sapphire]

torrential downpour doesn't impose the extra magick cost

but demeter cast is probably better

[dim kestrel]

and Lightning Lance is huge QoL imo

[alpine topaz]

alright ill try it out with demeter cast

[rigid raft]

i typically like to go for born gain, demeter cast, hera special, apollo is great too

[alpine topaz]

what makes hera special go well with it? i feel like anybody else would be strong

[rigid raft]

thanks alot

[limpid coral]

if you have enough mana to spam cast chop repeatedly everything kinda dies, so just get mana and stuff to stay safe

[dusty sapphire]

I'm pretty sure hera is just the highest percentage god without a range requirement

[dim kestrel]

make sure to have Origination turned on, and lean into that; that's the Demeter strat. If you aren't going for Origination, Apollo is more damage (but slower)

[dim kestrel]

that and it gives you a status

[dusty sapphire]

hitch is good too but high percentage makes her versatile

[silent crow]

demeter is more dmg than apollo at higher rarities jesus christ i hate this game so much

[limpid coral]

hitch means the enemies that didnt die to the cast and special can be quickly cleaned up. also big percentage

[dim kestrel]

like, Hitch is good in and of itself, but also just gives you status count for Origination

[tired fulcrum]

Great damage, curse for origination, youre already taking hera and its earth there isnt much better than hera special

[silent crow]

WHY DOES APOLLO SUCK

[tired fulcrum]

Apollo scaling is weird

[alpine topaz]

apollo is very good all around i feel

[dusty sapphire]

boons in h1 had hidden pommability attribute, I assume that's the case for h2 as well

[alpine topaz]

plus his lego is busted

[silent crow]

yes and apollos atk/specials pom terribly

[azure crow]

i only encountered him a few times

[dim kestrel]

the one drawback of Demeter cast is if you don't have the secondary cast (Gale Force) and a status on your special, and you're facing high HP enemies who don't die in one cast+special, Freeze has a cooldown before you can apply it again

[tired fulcrum]

Youre better off going for coarse grit than apollo leg

[alpine topaz]

should i go for that boon zeus/hestia have to aim the cast?

[silent crow]

freeze will still always count for originatio

[dim kestrel]

with Charon, absolutely

[tired fulcrum]

Doesnt freeze cooldown count as a status

[silent crow]

yes lmfao

[violet temple]

it does

[dim kestrel]

oh, does it? well, ok then

[silent crow]

dem cast is broken

[alpine topaz]

freeze is the strongest status imo

[dim kestrel]

imo this is the single most important ingredient in a Charon build, in that there are only these two boons that do it, whereas you have a number of good options for cast+special

[tired fulcrum]

Most important part is born gain

[dim kestrel]

oh, yes, getting your mana supply set is the first priority

[civic ocean]

You can do charon without a ranged cast I think

[alpine topaz]

just got glowing coal after arctic ring 😋 gonna put on hera keepsake in oceanus

[dim kestrel]

you can, but it makes a huge difference to have it

[alpine topaz]

what hammer should i go for

[violet temple]

origination more important tbh

[dim kestrel]

nice. what mana regen do you have?

[alpine topaz]

none yet im hoping for born gain

[tired fulcrum]

Ngl i prefer no ranged cast cuz it makes aiming goofier and you can just kite enemies into a dem cast and murder them all

[alpine topaz]

hecate is easy enough to survive without regen

[dim kestrel]

yeah but there are so many different combinations that give you that, whereas there are only exactly two boons that give a ranged cast

[silent crow]

glowing coal is so much worse than llance

[alpine topaz]

yeah its also worse to have hestia in your pool too

[silent crow]

llance autolocks on enemies like crazy idk why ppl complain about the autoaim

[dim kestrel]

at 0 Fear that's probably fine, yeah

[dim kestrel]

honestly I don't use much else from Zeus beyond LL in a Charon build

[silent crow]

itll even land on stuff seemingly outside the normal range

[limpid coral]

its annoying on mouse cause u expect it to just follow the cursor but it gets stuck and can't move away sometimes

[violet temple]

zeus and hestia both don't really do much for charon

ranged cast is nice but not essential

[alpine topaz]

neither do i but on average zeus is stronger i feel

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah ngl you can just offscreen stuff with lightning lance

[silent crow]

there was a weird charon blitz build somewhere

[dim kestrel]

LL itself is definitely stronger than GC. But Zeus being stronger on average doesn't really mean anything if you're not using other boons

[silent crow]

static shocks good on a lot of builds

[dim kestrel]

not Charon though

[tired fulcrum]

Tbh hestia has her omega special boon though that might also eat all your mana

[silent crow]

i love that boon fsr

[dim kestrel]

if you have Born Gain I think you could afford it but it's a marginal increase to your damage imo

[silent crow]

i mean just in general

charon doesnt need many gods tho so slotting in zeus isnt huge oppurtunity cost

[dim kestrel]

but anyway, Born Gain+Arctic Ring+Sworn Flourish+Lightning Lance = profit

[silent crow]

i forgot the prereqs for the apollo/zeus duo

[dim kestrel]

beyond these, probably just take a lot of Demeter. I guess Zeus sprint is a good pick

[silent crow]

i havent fojnd good uses for sprint dmg boons on serious runs

[spare kite]

If you wanna be funny do dem/apollo sprint for the duo (if you find apollo)

[dim kestrel]

yeah it's not gonna make a big impact, but if you're putting something on your sprint, it's probably a bit better than the alternatives in the pool

[silent crow]

dem sprint is good

[dim kestrel]

and I have found it nice to deal with little scrub enemies that aren't grouped up

yep, Dem sprint also nice, though overlap with Gale Force

and given a choice between the two I'd rather have Gale Force

honestly Nexus sprint isn't bad either; spread some of the damage in your cast to other things outside it

[silent crow]

i would honestly jst take passion dash or blinding sprint for the defense

[limpid coral]

cyclone sprint with air quality only

[dim kestrel]

if you're not going Heph for defense, I'd go Apollo with the 4th slot, mainly for Super Nova, but once he's there, Blinding Sprint is good to have

[silent crow]

passion dash with sweet surrender can give u some scaling too which is nice

[past salmon]

Omg hi best friend Boron

[tender anvil]

@past salmon mate!

You won’t believe it

[past salmon]

👀

I'm no waying rn
Spill the tea

[tender anvil]

The grind is over!

[past salmon]

LETS GO?!?!???

[tender anvil]

Meli flames 50 happened

[past salmon]

GGGGGGG

[tender anvil]

I’ll post a screenie, will have to learn the whole video cutting shenanigans tomorrow

[past salmon]

That's awesome
Want some secret info aswell? I'll dm

[tender anvil]

It was seeded though, got too tired of resetting erebus endlessly with lame gods in the pool

[past salmon]

Honestly based

[tender anvil]

Of course, I want all the secrets!

[past salmon]

I dm'd

Surely I get Moros 50F today when I get home

Your run will bless my RNG

[tender anvil]

You got it mate!

[alpine topaz]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/992634016454946845/1251703290190757960/image.png?ex=666f8b07&is=666e3987&hm=144cd8eb9d1c20abf1342e8db574ee71f371f255f33cf6b5c0dd0de5eef323df&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=814&height=458

first run with charon, really fun build super strong

[dim kestrel]

Nice hammer rng!

[alpine topaz]

yeah got super lucky

[still girder]

Are there any theoretical builds for max fear floating around? What are the major stumbling blocks?

[past salmon]

Triple earth is still ideal for Max Fear
The thing with Max fear is that ur entirely reliant on RNG tho

you are basically forced into Antler start if you want any chance of making it out of Erebus, so you cant force a god you want at the start
You will never have enough money for midshop or maybe even final shop
You have no rerolls

[magic moss]

ah im in such a giga lucky run but i have no demeter in pool yet and in fields with 1 dd

do i keep running pin or risk it and go demeter decisions decisions

[past salmon]

See
Demeter may be the correct decision
But everytime I do this I die so 💀

What Fear u on?

[magic moss]

THATS WHAT IM SCARED ABOUT XDD

[magic moss]

40 cleared oceanus with a minute 10 to spare cuz i got really unlucky with spawns

[past salmon]

Wep?

[magic moss]

moros

[past salmon]

Just dont die imo imo

[magic moss]

like i got into a room with 4 armored boulders in the small room without demeter cast

[plain fossil]

tart with no demeter cast sounds pretty horrendous

[magic moss]

where is the coutnerplay

[plain fossil]

man how much do we all crutch on arctic ring fr

[magic moss]

yeah we ball with demeter here we go

[past salmon]

I'm sorry unless you play Medea you arent allowed to complain
Nah but srs f boulders bro 😭

[magic moss]

i do play medea and armored boulders without arctic ring is just insta dd loss

[plain fossil]

i love boulders they never damage me 🙂

imagine playing these melee builds

[past salmon]

Imagine not playing the funnest builds in the game
Couldnt be me

[faint spear]

Most fun I've had with any build was with Pan, which depending on luck is either hit & run or ranged

[magic moss]

45 second cerberus

no dd loss but have 8 hp and 1 dd left going into tartarus

[past salmon]

Ive seen me win those

And now im going to see YOU win those

[magic moss]

yeah i equipped tooth for the extra dd just in case

my damage this run is honestly disgustingly insane

[limpid coral]

why tooth over pin?

[past salmon]

Tooth can be better occasionally
Usually pin is just better tho yeh
Very fringe cases

[magic moss]

i used pin in oceanus since i had 1 dd left with 2 hp out of erebus and just gambled that i would get demeter but didnt hit

[limpid coral]

oh right you can't use a keepsake again after switching away from it, I don't really get why that's a thing for the ones without one time/limited effects

like if silver wheel still has some mana left on it why can't you use it again

[magic moss]

i got 3 skull rooms in tartarus and lost both dds its joever

HOLY OBG EWFINOAEBGUVNGIOFJEVHASIHODJNAKLEFDSKJ

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1251731785356935218/image.png?ex=666fa591&is=666e5411&hm=3c82d8054ccae437bc29710bdd72aae5f94a25d80898c7fe5b505a385a0db3bf& NOT EVEN CLOSE BABY I0IJEROMDFLGER0OGNBOWEPAFMLNGNEPOAVBGREFPOQEBORGWEINFPS HJAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

[magic moss]

MY GOAT

[past salmon]

NICE
GG BABY

[past salmon]

Almost beat my record for lowest health after a 40+ clear

[limpid coral]

2

[past salmon]

my 45F Medea ended in 1 HP was so fire

Spiteful strength goes crazy

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1251732206490226799/Hades_II_2024-06-15_22-54-40.mp4?ex=666fa5f6&is=666e5476&hm=eb58e66000fb56d3a3ae4b7ba74295676943867859e4b3027d60920a91e7ceea& the damage went kinda crazy tho

[past salmon]

I should get back to my 50F Moros attempts

[errant apex]

I finally managed to finish 32 with all weapons but only with far ranged builds. Anything close ranged feels so much harder and riskier...

[past salmon]

Simply embrace the way of Medea

[magic moss]

ok but clearing 32 with every weapon is a feat by itself congrats!

[errant apex]

I special into attacks and die 😛

[magic moss]

try attacking into special and not dying it helps clearing

[tame spindle]

wait wdym by only far ranged builds

[magic moss]

i assume stuff like momos, pan, torch is all ranged, charon, mel skull

[tame spindle]

ohhh i tht they said 32 with all aspects mb

[errant apex]

all weapons not all aspects

stuck at close ranged ones

[tame spindle]

yessir

[past salmon]

Moros is only half ranged tbf

optimal Moros is to not play at ranged at all

[errant apex]

I used aspect of mel and went all in on the baloons

[weak cosmos]

Yo i am playing moros in erebus low fear right now and static shock with it is awesome

[past salmon]

Static shock is awesome with most things

but yeah Moros slaps at low fear aswell
I think its debatabely 2nd fastest weapon after Medea rn?

[weak cosmos]

...mel skull?

[past salmon]

Moros is still faster fairly certain

I think Charon actually has a better time than Mel skull atm

[past pewter]

ye

[blazing elbow]

What its giga cleaver?

[civic ocean]

imagine a cleaver

now imagine its really big, giga big even

[blazing elbow]

Right, but how do I get that in the game?

[strange python]

daedalus hammer + axe

[civic ocean]

Hammer for the axe

[blazing elbow]

Ohhhhh

I understand

[strange python]

did you play the first hades? this game is extremely similar in terms of mechanics. we have some different gods and status effects but that's it

well, also a mana bar.

[thorn dagger]

That is the best explanation I've seen. Ever.

[plain fossil]

Gz mate

[plain fossil]

Charon is surprisingly quick because it can dps from nearly anywhere and doesnt really need hammers or damage boons

I have less timer trouble with charon than any other weapon ngl

[past pewter]

once again cast builds are op

[blazing elbow]

Yeah, I just didn't remember that there was an upgrade for the axe called that 😅

[strange python]

these are all different weapons too

[plain fossil]

I mean charon has its own problems lul like ur never gonna see it at really high fear because it doesnt function without a good gain boon and hence gets ruined by onion + panic

[past salmon]

Charon 45 has been done and imo 49 is possible

[strange python]

i hate charon bc i forget it turns my cast into a projectile every time

[plain fossil]

How do u do charon with panic onion

[past salmon]

47 is definitely possible 49 will be tougher

[past salmon]

49 is no panic

[plain fossil]

U will surely oom at 49

[past pewter]

im never listening to anyone who says x fear/heat is impossible ever again

[past salmon]

nah I see it being possible

[plain fossil]

47 i can see maybe

[civic ocean]

We shall push and rng shall decide

[plain fossil]

Like charon vs blue shields isnt fun even at mid fear where u have born gain room 1

[past salmon]

Well yeh obvs not
Just RNG better tho imo imo

[plain fossil]

Maybe its possible but id need to see the first 3 rooms

[past salmon]

Axe in general is awful into Blue shields but that doesnt stop 50F from being doable

[plain fossil]

Like those rooms done by someone genuinely trying to do it

Because i think its like 30-35 second rooms minimum not counting room 1 till u get born gain?

[plain fossil]

Yea but mel axe at least functions without mana lul

[past salmon]

well thats the thing
Early rooms can still be pretty quick assuming you dont get awful enemy RNG

[past salmon]

based

[blazing elbow]

Thanks bro

[plain fossil]

Like theres a big difference between 40 and 75 damage autoattacks

[past salmon]

I mean sure yeh

[plain fossil]

Maybe u can do 49f mynt style with no arcana and no timer lmao

[past salmon]

48F Charon was done on surface
So liek

Surface is an easier run but still I think its silly to say high fear is impossible on Charon for underworld
They did 48F Charon surface first try too

[plain fossil]

Yea thats because onion doesnt ruin ur day on surface tho

[past salmon]

I mean I think Charon could just arti gamble tho for like room 2 Gain

[plain fossil]

Well alright, i dont think charon is going to end up particularly competitive as long as its mana requirements are so high but im prepared to be wrong

[past pewter]

yeah that doesnt sound as bad as gambling for epic zeus special and explosive return ngl

[past salmon]

I mean I think its worse than some other options but I see almost every weapon being capable of 50F atm tbh

[plain fossil]

I think we have different definitions of capable lul

Like yea if u savestate or even seed then the pool of potential weapons gets bigger

[past salmon]

well there are 2 definitions of capable

[plain fossil]

Because i mean ur talking about arti gambling which is uh quite a high level of rng right

[past salmon]

one is closer to possible which is how im using it ig
I think its possible to beat 50F on every aspect

[plain fossil]

I mean i think thats true if u savestate every room

[past salmon]

Hardest maybe Mel daggers?

Poop aspect be poop aspect

[plain fossil]

Eos tbh

[past pewter]

its far too early to say, id be surprised if 50F isnt doable on ebery aspect and im nowhere near beating 50f myself

but if its anything like high heat, it will happen

[plain fossil]

Well im more talking about like in a reasonable timeframe, ie before the next patch deletes half the builds and flips the balance round

[past pewter]

ok yea thats a diff story

[plain fossil]

Like this isnt the release game

[past salmon]

oh well then yeh it wont happen
Im talking about the ability to do something not whether something will happen within a certain timeframe

[plain fossil]

Ur actually on ur own timer here that being till sgg patches out arctic ring and coarse grit lmao

[past pewter]

td4 real

[past salmon]

I hope Coarse grit gets changes but I have a feeling it wont since its not very impactful at low fear

[plain fossil]

Ye i mean idc theoretical perfect play right like im more interested in what a human being can reasonably hope to achieve before going insane

ie i count pan as currently impossible because twoeleven is really good and he couldnt do it with a couple hundred tries when pan hammers were better

It might not be actually impossible impossible but thats how im thinking about it

[past salmon]

well that is different again to being able to beat it before patch
I think a human being can reasonably hope to achieve any aspect 50F if they stick to it super hard
Eventually RNG will be good enough and you wont choke

I think Pan is still possible, twoeleven was having a hard time tho for sure
I believe he got multiple fields entries tho

[plain fossil]

Also i had this discussion last night but i think coarse grit is probably good enough at 32 to nerf and i figure sgg should balance at least somewhat around 32 if theyre gonna give out statues for it

And arctic ring is stupid

[plain fossil]

Ur optimism is a source of constant inspiration

[past salmon]

I have to be optimistic bro I got no other choice 💀
My current projects are 50F Moros, 53F Medea/Mel skulls and 45F all weapons streak liekkk

[plain fossil]

U dont need optimism bro come hang out with me in the 30s

U dont even need brain cells i promise

[past salmon]

Unfortunately the little devil on my shoulder keeps egging me on in the 50Fs

[limpid coral]

What do you even skip for 53

[plain fossil]

Im just gonna wait till sgg messes up an early access balance patch and makes something twice as good as old momus

[past salmon]

Rebuke

[plain fossil]

Then i do a 50 and be like see im as good as the big boys

[limpid coral]

Makes sense it's like +100 hp on everything

[past pewter]

what if there was a duo boon that doubled cast damage

[plain fossil]

Thats just glorious disaster lulw

[limpid coral]

If u replace solar ring with something does glorious disaster still do anything

[plain fossil]

I dont know, can u sacrifice prerequisite boons?

[low bear]

I JUST LOST MY 42F MEL DAGGER RUN TO A POWER OUTAGE

[spare kite]

#h2-tech-fixes and see if you can recover it

[civic ocean]

lesson learned

jk unfort

[past salmon]

might be able to save the run

[plain fossil]

Thats just the universe saving u from having to play mel daggers

[low bear]

i was at Chronos with Hook/Sureshot and 1:30 on the clock and full echo dds

[low bear]

Ohh how

[plain fossil]

Lmao ghetto pan

[low bear]

Prerty much lmao

[past salmon]

hold on there is a thing for it somewhere
As long as you dont start another run or open the game I think?

[plain fossil]

Have fun trying to get those hammers again

[past salmon]

You have to grab ur Save's temp files and replace ur other ones with them

[spare kite]

If something happens and you lose progress or find your save data missing, chances are it can still be recovered. Please follow these steps while the game is running and the main menu is up:

· On Windows, navigate to %USERPROFILE%\Saved Games\Hades II
· Sort by 'Date modified' to locate your most recent save matching one of these names, assuming you use Save Slot 1: Profile1_Temp.sav, Profile1_Temp.sav.bak, or Profile1.sav.bak1
· Rename that file to Profile1.sav
· Open the in-game Play menu and look for the save

[low bear]

Ohh okay I'll look into it then thanks!

[low bear]

Yeah it's been 3 days of attempts with Mel daggers I hate this aspect

[plain fossil]

So does everyone

[spare kite]

mel aspect so boring you'd think is a zag aspect

[plain fossil]

Ive been whinging for weeks lmao

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1251741369219809310/image.png?ex=666fae7e&is=666e5cfe&hm=42b642be44225a50dc9dee3200e1a4894d784206c18d8c6f5ffae49e148ab841& I think I just win now

[limpid coral]

enemies turn around between attacks so quick it's hard to stay behind them

[past salmon]

GO ALL THE WAY BABY

[limpid coral]

Hooooly gl gl

[past salmon]

WE GETTING ANOTHER 50F TODAY

[low bear]

Yeah the only playstyle seems to be discount Arte or discount Pan

The backstab hammer is literally 5x stronger than Mel dagger effect lmao

[limpid coral]

What are those hammers?

[low bear]

DO IT

Mel dagger should have focused on normal attack/spec playstyle imo since Arte does omega attack, and Pan doed omega special

[timber pawn]

Get it done 🫡

[bleak night]

I'm having coffee with the game quit so I can be awake as I fight lol

[timber pawn]

I have a feeling you got this

Did you record it

[bleak night]

the run? nope. I did take screenies after each boss to track my progress

[timber pawn]

Mynt pls

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1251735223624794123/image.png?ex=666fa8c5&is=666e5745&hm=9446bab9d0385a428e987b04279a8d45634e0682dbce028b712cc77780eb54eb&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1251737189117853746/image.png?ex=666faa9a&is=666e591a&hm=ab40eccaf85ed24a2acf68e4649a80f897b1cc716e3d4af94b6a8849bbd25970&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1251739942862852136/image.png?ex=666fad2a&is=666e5baa&hm=47c770f35773b7390e9b89c6ba836a58663d018b215615ab63574cb04ef584a7&

[bleak night]

if I go far I usually take a break to catch my breath

[limpid coral]

What's the cards setup?

[bleak night]

I went Artificer instead of Boatman so I can get stronger earlier on

[civic ocean]

Artificer wins againge

[limpid coral]

Is strength in there

[bleak night]

nope

[limpid coral]

Huh what else do you take

[bleak night]

I can check after. Game's not on rn lol

I wanna relax before I either win or throw a 4 dd lead with Coarse Grit on Chronos

[past salmon]

that would be so fire

[bleak night]

shut up lol

[past salmon]

wait hold on while ur not doing it let me do 1 50F Moros attempt and if RNG blesses us we can do simultaneous Chronos

[bleak night]

my build has really bad single target damage

[tame spindle]

@bleak night i accidentally primed too much mana and couldnt special against chronos LOOOOOL https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1170037301645164636/1251747745673379881/image.png?ex=666fb46e&is=666e62ee&hm=d69c6cd37ef8adb4143eacb6c88a6752ddda4055884d61d6cbcb5deb5df9c0a8&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=687&height=386

[bleak night]

It's Hitch + Static Shock

[shell geode]

yooo sister blades w poseidon boon w attack speed is crazy

[bleak night]

Wtf are you doing lmao

[past salmon]

😭

[silent crow]

build straight from hell

[past salmon]

that is so cursed lol

[limpid coral]

Controlled burn L

[plain fossil]

Than always does right, i was looking at ur ss going man even 4 dds and coarse grit gonna be painful potentially

Or at least zero mana than

[past salmon]

I think you should be fine

4mins for Chronos is very lenient

[limpid coral]

U can get hit like 30 times you're probably fine

Wow that run is fast tho

[bleak night]

Static Shock + Hera meant blue hearts didn't exist in one hit

I need to Zeus start because I don't want Poseidon Waves on my attack or I become too weak to clear

[limpid coral]

Static shock on axe isn't something that i expected but it makes sense huh

[past salmon]

its the only good answer for Rebuke

[limpid coral]

No cyclone sprint ig

[bleak night]

yep, none of that sadly

[tame spindle]

@bleak night @past salmon @silent crow https://medal.tv/games/hades-ii/clips/i4TL4V2TT_0vtPV9E/d1337PjDt7Ol?invite=cr-MSxLbTQsMTkwNDM3OTYwLA

[bleak night]

ooh Antler

[tame spindle]

loool

[bleak night]

I'll continue in 5

[past salmon]

4

[low bear]

IT WORKED @past salmon @spare kite was able to restore my save in Tartarus

[magic moss]

i lost 2 dds in oceanus because i have the double hit staff and poseidon attack so i couldnt physically see projectiles XD

and i died this game SUCKS xd

[tame spindle]

💀

[spare kite]

get that W

[bleak night]

@past salmon @timber pawn @tender anvil @civic ocean https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1251756871656804414/image.png?ex=666fbcee&is=666e6b6e&hm=b8c538b518a44760ec79a0940ded953a517b5e270b7af1ac7c4a475b98fb58e4&

[magic moss]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1251742892599414856/image.png?ex=666fafe9&is=666e5e69&hm=139e8690e32e461043b3cf48e6e7ce3c6939b80fd936b698f51b01b1e94d6229&

[timber pawn]

Let's goooo

[civic ocean]

gg

[bleak night]

@tall notch @tame spindle

[spare kite]

God damn

[plain fossil]

Only 1 dd lost very impressive for than axe

[bleak night]

I died 3x this run

bought one, Echo gave me back one, lost one to Chronos

[past salmon]

GG!
Nice job man

[bleak night]

I went Lucky Tooth

didn't need because I got CG on endshop anyway

so honestly, I guess the trick is to go Zeus start and pray you get Hera or Aphro in there

[plain fossil]

Ok now charon 50 lul

[bleak night]

yeah nty lol

I'll do Mel Axe though, after I get another 50f Than on record

[plain fossil]

Haha foolish thinks charon 50 is possible if anyone can do it its you

(I dont lul)

[bleak night]

It needs too much rng since it's a mana aspect

[plain fossil]

Mel 50 sounds doable?

[timber pawn]

Dashing heave my goat

[bleak night]

As long as I get Static Shock and luck into Aphro or Hera it'll be very doable

[plain fossil]

At least chronos sucks less than on than

Actual damage omg

[bleak night]

I was employing manaless Omega Special charge into my gameplay, since it's a shield + dash that you can instacancel into double dash attack

I have the Chronos fight recorded so I can upload it rn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ctxhzvT2eE&ab_channel=Myntkaramell

oops, forgot that it has to process higher qualities

[still girder]

ok, i'm gonna start grinding max fear, what aspect should i use?

[bleak night]

wdym max fear, like 55 ?

[still girder]

yeah, 55. why not? the community's still working on it and the game's in early access

when better to git gud

[bleak night]

damn gl, I only made it out of Erebus once on that

[civic ocean]

I feel like if ur gonna do that you should probably pick ur own aspect

[bleak night]

^

[faint spear]

Ideally what you go for doesn't rely on omega moves since it'll probably take a bit to get that going

[bleak night]

Pretty much, yeah

[faint spear]

Mel axe might not be a terrible move

[bleak night]

Than also works since I just never use Omegas on it on higher fears

The raw attack speed helps with the blue hearts, most of all

[faint spear]

Main reason I say Mel is because you also get a little extra health for security to start

Blue hearts is a fair point though

[bleak night]

idt that extra 35 matters too much sadly, in 55

The Lurkers there can strike you for 112 damage on first hit