h2-builds-and-combat

[fair geyser]

I know people like using the three cards to activate Seer for a Judgement run

[limpid coral]

is that how you play antler?

i see no reason to die instead of damaging down to the threshold

[golden isle]

antler with artemis/thanatos just deletes everything.

[spare kite]

10 rerolls is just too nice

[forest hinge]

normally I've got damage-increasing Testaments active in my attempts to finish getting Nightmare, so that's just the mindset I've fallen into

I'm usually going for Nightmare in every run I try, so I build my Arcana around whatever weapon/aspect I'm trying to win with

[limpid coral]

dying puts you at 40% max, not 30 idk whats going on

[magic moss]

antler is moreso conditional than a must pick imo, if you have trusty shield antler is giga op but if you dont then it significantly falls off since you're at the risk of getting one shot

[forest hinge]

I'm sick in the head, so sometimes I just don't take Death, I use Toula instead, and spend my other Grasp on other stuff like Strength and Origin

[limpid coral]

suffering sucks :(

[magic moss]

but that is how i use antler at 32F and ik a lot of other people use antler differently so dont take my word as law

[limpid coral]

by death do you mean the revives card (eternity)

[magic moss]

anyway i accidentally primed so i have 45 max mana for chronos on a pan poseidon run haha

with born gain no less uh this gonna be fun

[limpid coral]

good thing every time u charge ur special chronos instantly dies

[forest hinge]

Yes, idk why i keep think DD is the Death card, mb

[forest hinge]

I've been trying the same thing, Poseidon-Special right? Also I've done smth similar by taking Zeus boons that prime my build to death

[limpid coral]

but is it really that hard to damage down from 70 to like 20 in the first room? the number isn't that hard to reach right?

[magic moss]

yeah i was doing fine and then without thinking took 2 rares that also have priming themselves

so i went from 110 max to 45

[forest hinge]

DAMN

[past salmon]

I pretty much used antler exclusively for speedruns before I started going for above 50F runs.
You sort of just require the extra damage to clear Erebus like ever

[magic moss]

yeah i figured

[forest hinge]

wow, I haven't even beaten above 24F, I've got places to go i guess

[magic moss]

have you thought about using lion fang?

[past salmon]

I'ma be real I don't reccomend any fear above like 40tbh
I love the challenge but in general it's pretty miserable

[past salmon]

It's just not enough in my experience. Plus I don't get the boons i need for damage after Erebus anyway so my current Strat is to just hold antler the whole run.

[magic moss]

man i just barely lost to chronos he was one hit then i got caught by the hourglass and he did his one shot move xdd

went from 120 to dead

had 2 minutes to clear as well MAN

[past salmon]

I lost 3 48F runs to Chronos in a row the other day lmao I was so tilted

[magic moss]

roughhhh

im trying to get better with the blades and the more i use them the more i realize why i stopped using them

[past salmon]

I won the next run tho so it was fine
I shouldn't have lost any of them I needed my sleep buff

[magic moss]

holy hell the blades feel so awful to play

(this is my salt talking)

[past salmon]

Blades are probs my least favourite weapon I feel you

Staff is a close second.
Staff would probs be my least favourite if new Momus wasn't so cool

[magic moss]

funnily enough i dont play mana on staff at all so i've never tried new momus XDD

[forest hinge]

honestly new and old Momus feel kinda terrible to me, maybe its just that i dont have it at max rank yet but does it get better at max rank? Cause rn it feels doodoo poopoo

[dusty sapphire]

what rank do you have it at? old momus definitely shredded at most ranks but even new momus has a substantial difference between rank 1 and 5

[forest hinge]

Purple/Epic, so rank 3?

i think thats like 2.5 delay

[dusty sapphire]

yeah rank 5 makes it 1.5, which is a substantial difference in overall total time since it repeats

it shouldn't be garbage necessarily but yeah it can definitely feel weak at that rank

[magic moss]

new momus just feels weird to play for me

[forest hinge]

btw i lowkey have a complaint(?), but i need like input to know if im crazy or not: I don't like how Toula's DD upgrade restores more HP per rank u upgrade.

I'm salty cause it messes with my antler/strength builds

[spare kite]

wouldn't surprise me if the centaurless save file has toula just at 30 hp

[golden isle]

I thought anytime you run antler you only have 30 max HP or less

[crude ibex]

Just had some fun with Aspect of Charon w/ Apollo's Special & Cast + the Giga Cleaver & Empowering Guard hammers ---- Holy Cow the Damage!!! 😱😎

[wise idol]

Some people run vow of scars and just take some damage to activate it, but usually people just stay at 30 max hp, yes

[magic moss]

im sorry this sounds like a youtube title unless that was the joke then nice

[crude ibex]

lol. Didn't mean for it to sound like that. Was just sharing my recent experience. haha

[magic moss]

with all the bolding, italics, exclamation marks, and emoji's, definitely felt that way lmao

did you have glorious disaster with your apollo cast build?]

[crude ibex]

I used all that to make it easier to read. hahah. And no, sadly Zeus didn't show up in the run. But with the damage I was getting (also had Chaos for extra special damage, like 50%). -- Play was: Block, Cast, Giga -- bosses melt! haha

[pastel elm]

i wonder how hard hera gain will be nerfed. i hope other gains will get a buff or something as well. i feel like most gains dont feel that great. by default i pick hera or hestia gains. i wonder how others feel about gain boons in general?

[magic moss]

Hera Gain undisputed best Gain due to how flexible it is and how small its drawback is
Hestia Gain is also very powerful and probably 2nd strongest right now
Zeus Gain is also good BUT incredibly risky as it can single handedly kill a run if you aren't careful
Hephaestus Gain is moreso used for the damage reduction in high fears, so its more used as a damage reduction but extra mana if you get hit
Apollo and Demeter Gain are mid because their conditions are so restrictive so its a take if you really need mana and have no other option, otherwise its better to get just about anything else (excluding Heph Gain since you NEED to get hit)
Aphro Gain is mediocre in rooms but very powerful against guardians
Poseidon Gain is incredibly strong on Torches and good on every other weapon

[civic ocean]

now that there's a 4 god pool there's really almost no reason not to run born gain

previously on some weapons you could make the case that you didn't want hera in the 3 god pool

[magic moss]

now with 4 god pool and triple earth being so strong, theres like 0 reason why you would go anything else outside a very specific build

[civic ocean]

panic huntress stuff mostly

[limpid coral]

Ive found lucid gain quite nice tbh. Out of mana, press Q

[civic ocean]

anyways back to the volume challenge grind in 5 mins or so

[limpid coral]

Born gain just says gain a huge amount of max mana. So that amount will prolly just go down

[pastel elm]

i feel that zeus gain is near unpickable due to its interaction with prime, most notably with the rarity prime vow

[magic moss]

i rank boons considering all difficulties of the game, Zeus gain is still incredibly powerful on low fear runs, which the majority of the playerbase will play on

[plain fossil]

Lucid gain is fine its just really narrow because most builds that want apollo dont really hang about in their casts; it's a perfectly fine click any time it doesnt obviously suck

[pine patio]

It does more or less lock you out of primes or things that can make some omegas too costly even at low fear

Like RIP my double axe special

[plain fossil]

Zeus gain bad on all fears, it bricks powerful prime gains and it doesnt even regen much mana

Its just REALLY bad on high fear

[civic ocean]

it only does that if you're using mana, though. Ionic + Statc Shock + spirit surge is super strong

[limpid coral]

Its like 4/s base like what

[tired fulcrum]

I mean then you just take panic

[civic ocean]

what if I haven't beaten the game yet?

[limpid coral]

I mean if u want to go that route just don't pick a mana boon and spend it all immediately at least you get that burst damage at the start

[tired fulcrum]

Thats a rather niche circumstance then

[civic ocean]

you think it's a niche circumstance that a player won't have beaten Chronos?

[tired fulcrum]

Also the ionic gain static shock combo bricks huntress

[plain fossil]

Well u dont need to give up a boon to do that tho since u typically wouldnt have titan upgraded if u havent finished the game. u can easily get there with just static shock and one other prime

[civic ocean]

yeah that's fine, the combo was strong enough to do 50 fear circe right

[tired fulcrum]

In combination with not wanting mana at all yeah thats rare

[civic ocean]

its a really good way to get someone their first chronos w

[plain fossil]

As i also pointed out u dont actually have much mana anyway if u havent beaten chronos

[pine patio]

In the first game you'd beat Hades then need to beat him like 10 more times with a lot of stuff locked behind the first win. I would say that most runs are not getting that first one

[spare kite]

finally maxed charon

[civic ocean]

go staff, spam basic attack, lower your mana pool, prime your mana, don't worry about omegas

Like off the top of my head that's probably the easiest first clear strat in the game and Ionic can be part of it

[pastel elm]

its gotta be a horrible nightmare balancing the game considering both low AND high fear. i wonder how he devs will approach it, especially considering the game is only in EA now

[pine patio]

Also first win is 0 fear and like the most free to mess around for it

[plain fossil]

If u take static shock and any other prime ur going down to 0 anyway and even if u arent then u can click 1 omega per room u have no timer it wont kill u

[civic ocean]

Titan is usually one of the first Arcanas maxed out so you'd need to prime 40 mana somehow

[plain fossil]

Like this is the most niche of niche of niche circumstances lul

[civic ocean]

Not really?

[tired fulcrum]

If you have multiple staff attack hammers you have so much dps you dont really care about spirit surge damage, the only thing that matters is static shock and youd be prioritizing other things over ionic gain spirit surge

[civic ocean]

spirit surge is good damage and ur on zeus anyways

[plain fossil]

U need to be first kill AND maxed titan AND have this exact setup AND be unwilling to just not have any mana regen plus click one omega

[low bear]

Easiest first win imo is Zeus Cast, Lightning Lance. Drop cast and stay far away from Chronos you don't need to learn his moveset. Anything melee is inherently more dangerous for first wins

[tired fulcrum]

Its two boons for okay damage

[civic ocean]

not even maxed titan - level 2 titan - how are u priming 30 mana

[limpid coral]

You don't need to prime x mana just spam some charge attacks at the start of a room idk

[civic ocean]

or just take ionic since ur not going for a gain anyways

[plain fossil]

U only need to prime 20

[limpid coral]

So it's a dead boon..?

[magic moss]

you balance around low fear and just see whats giga op in high fear and slightly nerf that. The majority of the playerbase wont play high fear runs outside of maybe 32 like once to get the statue, so balancing around high fear is just not that smart of an idea

[plain fossil]

U start with 50, level 2 titan is 30, spirit surge procs at 10

[low bear]

Me and 2 other friends had their first win with a cast build and we all played blind

[civic ocean]

it's not a dead boon if it helps you enable your strat

it's also a totally fine gain for Storm Ring builds at low fear

[tired fulcrum]

The real strat is spamming staff attack not spirit surge

[plain fossil]

Idk if id pay 2 boons for spirit surge even at low fear ngl

I guess u can do anything and it works but still

[limpid coral]

It's a bit odd to me to pick a boon to not have to.. hold m1 at the start of a room for a second

[civic ocean]

its fine ppl are just high fear pilled

[tired fulcrum]

Its not even doing much on low fear

[civic ocean]

it does enough

[low bear]

The Unseen is plenty for Zeus cast build so I dunno if Ionic is really needed

[civic ocean]

it can get buffed for sure but we're too haterade on it

[low bear]

And I imagine most new players run Unseen

[civic ocean]

they won't if they ask me for help

[tired fulcrum]

Practically any gain works for storm ring its so mana efficient

[crisp moth]

Unseen is mid depending on the build

[plain fossil]

I like unseen for new players they dont have rerolls anyway

[limpid coral]

I just see arrogance is free -> click arrogance -> ionic gain is unpickable

[low bear]

Well yeah but new players don't have many arcanas anyway

[crisp moth]

True

[magic moss]

i do think ionic needs a buff since it does feel too restrictive, hence #h2-feedback message

[civic ocean]

Isn't unseen like 2 mana for new players

[plain fossil]

Like wtf are people without the currency to buy rerolls arcana even gonna click lul

[limpid coral]

Unseen is 2 mana but also no timer right

[civic ocean]

ionic gain, presumably?

like ding ding ding ur gettin it

[plain fossil]

With ur grasp lmao keep up

[pastel elm]

maybe thats the right approach, but selfishly, id love some balance changes geared around fear lol. but if its better for the majority, yea low fear deserves more of the devs attention i can agree

[crisp moth]

Late game the most use it gets is when you are going for a build that doesn’t have much mana

[low bear]

I mean yeah J agree, I still use it from time to time too depending on my build

[pastel elm]

quite huge expectations from this indie company but i have faith and ill love the game regardless. hard to believe its only in ea rn

[plain fossil]

Theres just nothing else to click with the grasp u have at that time so u may as well click unseen at least it does something unlike level 1 death or whatever else u have access to

[civic ocean]

It's a nice free take for Storm Ring stuff at low fear because you can't roll off of it as easily and you really only need like 20 mana

isn't level 1 unseen like 2 mana

[plain fossil]

Yep its bad

But u have no good way to use ur grasp at that stage soooo

[civic ocean]

wdym the cards aren't very hard to unlock

[plain fossil]

Neither is killing chronos lul u dont have very much of the unlock currency

[civic ocean]

u definitely have access to any card you want before you have 20 grasp unless ur hard focusing psyche

[plain fossil]

I did it miles before i unlocked all the arcana and that was night uh 30ish even slow players that do it on night 50 im sure wont have everything

[civic ocean]

except maybe judgement

[plain fossil]

Like night 30 isnt even fast at all by any standards im pretty sure

And i did not have good options

[civic ocean]

Yeah thanks to Ionic Gain I managed to get it before night 30

[plain fossil]

Like i said brother ur more mechanically skilled than i am

[civic ocean]

I am only as good as Ionic Gain lets me be

[magic moss]

bro i would expect new players to beat chronos for the first time at like night 40-50 much less unlock all arcana

[plain fossil]

But im pretty sure im keeping up because i dont click ionic gain

🙂

[civic ocean]

You're definitely a pro at telling people what you think doesn't work

[tired fulcrum]

born gain let me cheese chrono on night 18

[plain fossil]

And ur a pro at trying to be the smartest guy in the room but i mean i wouldnt get personal hey

Its just a videogame discord no reason to be passive aggressive amirite

[civic ocean]

Idk about that, I'm wrong all the time, I just like giving stuff a chance

[pastel elm]

even if there are op newbie builds, its hard to say if newbies can even figure out whats good or bad. some may have RIB (rarity induced blindness)

the newbie experience is just really difficult to judge

[plain fossil]

Thats reasonable, i try and spend time in the discussion thread to see how ppl approach the game but maybe i just dont get what newbies are doing

I just go off my own newbie experience as a base and use other ppls comments/complaints to adjust

Same as everyone, i would presume

[limpid coral]

My experience was I clicked static shock and immediately went oh ionic gain is garbage. Haha

[plain fossil]

I clicked ionic gain and got annoyed with how fking slow it is to regen mana

[limpid coral]

I can see it working if you don't use charge attacks a lot cause you're still figuring out the moveset

[silent crow]

i used ionic gain a bit when starting out with storm ring

[plain fossil]

Like everyone talks all day about the drawback and how to deal with the drawback and how its so terrible but nobody talks about how apparently unseen card is asscrack yet common/0 ionic gain is actually the same gain as unseen card

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1250989679608594473/image.png?ex=666cf26d&is=666ba0ed&hm=838751f9d4767907793a89d1f80827b4b37944bdad3aa663445e4ae8a29ada37& oh c'mon

[silent crow]

DO IT

[fair garnet]

If I'm losing my Arcana for 11 battles, I think I'd like a better boost than to my Special.

[spare kite]

y'know what this is charon

[silent crow]

MAX DURATION BARREN CURSE HELL YEAH

[spare kite]

might as well be funny, I think this is gonna last till a few chambers in tartarus lmfao

nvm, accidentally rerolled

[silent crow]

its random the dmg boost has such a wide range

[spare kite]

thought I didn't have more rolls cuz the UI didn't show it

[silent crow]

"accidently" im sure

[silent crow]

epic reroll ui

[spare kite]

now I don't have rolls to greed for apollo-dem either :c

could have given me chant at least

[plain fossil]

What are u playing, local climate

[spare kite]

just dem cast for origination lul

[plain fossil]

So why the apollo dem need

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1250991254532263987/image.png?ex=666cf3e5&is=666ba265&hm=8c4eaa1e35dfa5c4cbfb2d9f672d7ad0923df8979799cf68ed03451e68004934& I love you echo

[spare kite]

big dmg funny

[plain fossil]

Oh ur playing charon nvm i get it

[past salmon]

I am the biggest unseen card rep

[plain fossil]

Lmao

Imma try unseen the next time i play eos it might actually be the way

[past salmon]

Who needs a gain boon

I have 2 45F wins with unseen card no gain boon now lmao

[plain fossil]

Like ur 30th grasp always sucks right

[past salmon]

I stg it's actually meta

[low bear]

I do use Unseen often with low mana aspects so I don't have to wait for a gain boon and can focus on other boons early which helps a lot

[plain fossil]

So all it costs is ur variable 3 cost boon which for eos is huntress, which if u have a gain boon isnt always up

So i figure it cant be that bad despite ppl dunk on unseen all day

[past salmon]

It's honestly fine yeh
You just take off like swift and huntress and I always have an extra 1 grasp anyway so

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1250993107651002451/MostInteractive.mp4?ex=666cf59f&is=666ba41f&hm=421c0e8e9365bde4275105395d05225f4856450da8df1d393d41efe31d551e83& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1250993108875874426/CerbFight.mp4?ex=666cf59f&is=666ba41f&hm=db179bfb7510b6551327411c36ccabb5585f7e73e0b1c82ce0c0245f023d3320&

[past salmon]

Persephone is a bit more awkward since you need Moon

[past salmon]

Mint condition is bad btw

[plain fossil]

Every charon vs cerb lul something that weapon does not lack is damage

[past salmon]

I have started looking at #h2-feedback more just because some of it is very humourous

[spare kite]

also I forgot to click forsaking lmfao

[plain fossil]

Its also why i really like ranged cast on charon

[spare kite]

I have +40% enemies for nothing

[plain fossil]

I didnt know this but apparently zeus cast has a max range when u arent namelocked but if u are it just namelocks to whatever ur targeting

So it goes way further than normal in order to center on cerberus

Uh no zeus cast lightning lance sorry

[past salmon]

Why do I see like 10 posts a day asking for forsaking to just not make the game harder.
Do people not get the point of vows #h2-feedback message

[limpid coral]

Namelock?

[plain fossil]

The targeting changes when u can namelock

Yea if u have cerberus highlighted on ur mouse cursor idk how it works on controller

It just goes for fking miles to zap him dead center

[limpid coral]

O damn is that how it works, so if i want to actually aim it somewhere near me i can't be mousing over an enemy

[plain fossil]

I mean its a point and click

So if u want it to be close and ground targeted then click close and ground targeted right

[limpid coral]

I mean like sometimes when i start holding Q it snaps to a position and then it stops moving no matter what I do with my mouse

So ig i should make sure my cursor won't snap to something random

[plain fossil]

Yea i need to mess about with the behaviour a little more

[limpid coral]

Doesnt happen with hestia range cast so idk

[crude ibex]

My post has nothing to do with not making the game harder. I have no issue with the Vow change, besides when the game literally forces your choice into a Sacrifice with no other options. Hence the suggestion for a 2nd option to simply be extra gold. My post had nothing to do with trying to get the Legs or Duos easier.

[plain fossil]

Blood is an unfair vow it should increase damage the mobs take instead

[plain fossil]

Fwiw i got 0 issue with this in principle as its the actual punishment for the vow so i disagree with ur idea. I agree with ppl saying it should be easier to track ingame tho

Like i dont think the pencil meta is a good solution to whats at least in my head an issue in a snappy roguelite

[past salmon]

Yes but this is asking to make it easier.
Not picking up a boon because you know there is a likely chance of getting forced into a trade is In Fact something you can do

[plain fossil]

And yea i mean i do it in my head to make sure i dont get screwed by sacrifice boons, im pretty good, but im not perfect at it

And i dont like that i would be better at the game if i just paused a lot and alt tabbed to 3rd party website to check off boons

So id like it to at the very least be a counter ingame of how many boons are left on that god

I dont want it to be ok dear have some gold so u cant actually properly mess up that seems too easy at least in my head

[crude ibex]

My situation was.... Had Apollo Leg requirements. Got Mini-boss door with Apollo. Thought, cool, chance for the Leg! -- Instead, am forced out of one of the Leg requirements. #NotCool #NotInterested #ToEachTheirOwn

[wise idol]

I think the only change I want to forsaking is showing what boons have been crossed out in the book of shadows

[limpid coral]

do yall think that message is 140 characters or less

[past salmon]

#randomhashtag

[plain fossil]

Id be fine with this

I have no problem with forsaking stopping u from getting legendaries/duos it needs to do something lul

At the moment its already makes the game net easier

Which is insane for a 2 fear vow so im not really in favour of removing the only thing that it actually does in terms of making the game harder

Like if u could never brick with forsaking it should be -2 fear instead of +2 fear

Actually id be down for a vow table with negative fear options

[limpid coral]

I wonder if theyll come up with a way to make interesting blessings like slicendice

[crude ibex]

So..... let me get this straight. You got a God's Leg. requirements. Most other boons are gone for the God (from vow)... so now you have to decide "Oh I shouldn't pick up that God because instead of the potential for the Leg (which is still available), I could be forced out of the requirements??? No thanks.

[past salmon]

Yes
If you don't want to do that.
Don't put on the vow that makes the game harder

[plain fossil]

Yea im down with that 100% its a vow it needs to make the game more difficult to play somehow

[limpid coral]

hm theres a small chance i get offered a legendary but if i don't hit it the rest of the stuff is all sacrifice boons I will roll it anyway and get mad when I miss

[crude ibex]

Offering the extra Gold option does not make the game "easier" lol

[past salmon]

It literally does

[limpid coral]

ok u lost me

[plain fossil]

Obviously it does it removes the possibility that u mess up

[crude ibex]

Mess up?

[plain fossil]

Just step away from ur own really narrow example for one second and think about the vow in general ok

[crude ibex]

You all think I don't like the vow. LOL

[plain fossil]

The single thing that it can do that is actually net negative to ur run in general (which is what a vow that gives fear needs) is to give u something u dont actually want. Deleting boons is generally a positive

[past salmon]

I mean Ur asking it to be changed to essentially do nothing

[crude ibex]

What?!?!

lol

[plain fossil]

It has almost no downside if it can give gold

[crisp moth]

Some dude in feedback just talked about not enough high damage builds

[plain fossil]

Anyfear speed runners take forsaking because it makes the game net easier than no fear at all

[past salmon]

It already makes infusions and other specific T2 boons way easier to find

[violet temple]

does excellence/divinity arcana also improve chance for legendary

[spare kite]

nope

[violet temple]

haven't seen hermes legendary once 😭

[plain fossil]

All those chances are independent right

[spare kite]

start buying yarns

and I believe chaos's favor still has its legendary bonus too

[crude ibex]

The way the vow is worded ("Selecting a Boon will cause two unpicked blessings to not appear in the rest of the run.") has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. That effect is fine. You pick a boon, 2 boons are X'd. Fine.

And what do you get when you pick up a God's boon when you have none left? You get the Extra Gold option. Yet, on occasion, this does not occur, and forces you into a choice. But again, to each their own. Ya'll don't have to agree. Go play your game the way you want. I'll make my feedback how I want. 😉

[spare kite]

if you were forced into a swap then you didn't delete everything tho

[past salmon]

Well that's because a trade happens because the boon being offered for trade was never x'd

[crude ibex]

Cool. Think how you wish.

[limpid coral]

how does something still existing in the pool depend on ones opinion ??

[plain fossil]

Thats not really an opinion lul its just a statement of what u did on ur run

[past salmon]

Brother he just spoke a literal fact 💀

[crude ibex]

Cool.

[plain fossil]

Anyway forsaking op please delete thanks

[past salmon]

So true

[spare kite]

so true

[limpid coral]

What kinds of blessing would u take in exchange for more curse points

[past salmon]

Can we delete revs instead tho

[plain fossil]

Buff revs

100% chance just pick up the skulls scrub

[past salmon]

Stop.

[crisp moth]

Revs are kinda easy for me

[plain fossil]

Like negative fear?

[limpid coral]

Yeah

[spare kite]

replace rebuke for the savior buff from H1

[plain fossil]

I would have fun with negative fear vows i think

[past salmon]

Revs scale with how high Ur fear is

[plain fossil]

I got a good one for negative fear

[crisp moth]

As easy as they may be, no

[crisp moth]

And?

[plain fossil]

A vow that deletes the 2 unpicked options when u pick a boon, letting u access infusions and control ur run easier

What do u guys think about that for -2 fear, cool idea eh

[limpid coral]

Like just some random stuff from slice and dice, revives restore more hp, chance to get double element from picking a boon idk

[past salmon]

I mean unless Ur doing 48+ revs aren't anywhere near as bad since timer is way easier

[limpid coral]

Highest hp enemies in each wave get cursed with something

[past salmon]

Revs on their own are generally fine

[crisp moth]

And?

[past salmon]

The problem is when you put them alongside timer commotion and rebuke

[plain fossil]

I mean even on like 32 fear i cant do timer3 rev2 on anything other than charon 😦

Oh and zero mana staff that thing is busted

[past salmon]

Tbf I just don't click revs

[plain fossil]

Neither do i im just sayin some builds cant do erebus with that restriction 😦

[past salmon]

And that's all. Good convo 👍

[crisp moth]

Ok

[past salmon]

Have you played much axe.
I've found without rebuke its the easiest Erebus weapon

[plain fossil]

I can do timer3 with all the axes just not timer3 rev2 with the attack axes

[past salmon]

I just never die to timer in Erebus on axe
Timer usually becomes a problem for Tart since my damage always seems lacking on cerb

[plain fossil]

Charon does so much damage with no boons that i can

[past salmon]

I don't play much Charon tbh

[limpid coral]

maaaan i got giga cleaver and epic hera special on mel axe

[tired fulcrum]

Budget charon time

[plain fossil]

New charon is really good i like it a lot at mid to mid-high fear

Its an extremely high mana requirement build tho so it hates onion

[past salmon]

Yeah aspect seems rlly strong now

[crisp moth]

I misread this at first

[tired fulcrum]

Onion charon is fine, panic onion in erebus is less fine

[past salmon]

Anyways
I'm making progress on my 45F all weapons streak.
I've done Axe+Skull back to back twice in practice.
Cleared 45F on all weapons minimum 3 times each aswell

[plain fossil]

Man i dont know how to ever do onion charon if my start isnt a boon

5 rooms with no gain is just 💀

[past salmon]

Staff and Daggers seem to be the only problems.
Daggers is just not my Jam and staff feels very hammer dependent
Probs will do staff first

[limpid coral]

Ok sometimes on mel axe I'm getting 2 dash attacks in quick succession and have no idea what's going on

[tired fulcrum]

With titan you have 90 base mana which is enough to clear most rooms

[limpid coral]

How do I do that consistently

[past salmon]

@bleak night
They are probs offline for a bit actually

[tired fulcrum]

If you get non boon exits you can dump rerolls to get mana pots or hera

[plain fossil]

If its a small reward its a small reward sadly

Sometimes u dont hit ur 3rd one till room 5-6 or so and then if its against arachne u actually want to just cliff lul

Its the same reason why twoeleven was trying all this cooked stuff with unseen card and wheel and whatnot

[past salmon]

Twoeleven was COOKING

[crisp moth]

?

[crude ibex]

Added an edit to my feedback: #h2-feedback message

Edit: Another potential solution (to not make it "too easy") -- instead of the extra gold option, maybe add something like "Take X health-damage" (or maybe prime some magic) instead of taking that single choice. Would be a way to allow the player to forsake that last boon choice, but without giving the player an advantage.

[past salmon]

#h2-feedback message
@spice wasp the vow just makes the first boon you get in each region an onion it doesn't care about anything else

[spice wasp]

ooh ok, ty for informing me

[crude ibex]

New Momus -- What are some of your feelings about Best-in-Slot for each?

[plain fossil]

Yea i would be much more on board with that

[plain fossil]

U mean core boons?

[crude ibex]

Yeah, haven't tried Momus. Just figured I'd ask.

[plain fossil]

Ive played quite a bit of momus at 32, my opinion is to start with hera gain as thats more important than ur actual damage source, and stay semi flexible till first hammer

[crude ibex]

And yeah... I don't need the game to be easier. But I hate when the game forces a bricked run. I always just restart the run when that happens... just a pain. I would easily choose to take dmg.

[crude ibex]

Yeah... Born Gain does seem to be the best all around.

[zenith bolt]

pencil meta time

[plain fossil]

If u get a good attack hammer then on attack i like hera if i didnt forsake it alrdy or apollo

If u get a good special hammer then hera or demeter are good, apollo is acceptable

[crude ibex]

Cool. Gonna try it out! Still haven't worked up to 32 fear... still on 20s. I'll get there. haha

[modern wadi]

does anyone know why heph ring doesnt charge Persephone skull?

[plain fossil]

Zeus is actually okay on special as well it hits pretty hard and with cast up it will trigger off every hit

[zenith bolt]

persephone skull charges glory from specifically omega cast damage

anvil ring does damage regardless of omega cast or regular cast

[modern wadi]

but even when you charge it it doesnt count?

[zenith bolt]

thus, not omega cast damage and therefore doesn't charge glory

since it just gets counted as regular cast damage i think

[modern wadi]

hmm seems strange when most others do but ig makes sense

[zenith bolt]

zeus' storm ring and poseidon's geyser ring seem to be the best choices for now

[modern wadi]

yeah thats what i found too

[zenith bolt]

i think the boon has to specifically only work on omega casts -3-

[modern wadi]

does hera ring count?

i havent tried it cause hera ring

[zenith bolt]

i dont think it does but even if it did, it still wouldn't be good

[modern wadi]

yeah fr

[zenith bolt]

it's sad bc engagement ring is a funny pun

[modern wadi]

i like the idea of it lasting longer but it never ends up working out

maybe if you could have another effect too the longer lasting would make sense

[past salmon]

Guys I made an oopsy

I did not pencil Meta very good

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246695893361496087/1251018512177037354/image.png?ex=666d0d48&is=666bbbc8&hm=eff80d9750cb7aac9eca5483c8f5bfc7a94564585cf81aa0dc41d352e87bb134&
I thought I hadnt seen uncanny yet 😭

[spare kite]

What has forsaken gifted to- oh

[past salmon]

umm

idek what bricks me the least here
Cast ig? lmao

[spare kite]

Just hit dem again and see if she offers the cast back lmao

[lucid pivot]

This has probably already been put in the chat. But Axe Aspect of Charon, Poseidon ΩCast, Aphro Special, Poseidon/Aphro Duo boon. 2x ΩSpecial hammer. It felt like cheating! 😁

[tired fulcrum]

Poseidon cast nerfs your damage tho , it doesnt benefit from furies or the charon buff

[past salmon]

this run has been so cooked how am I in tart

[zenith bolt]

bc ur cracked

[lucid pivot]

It's possible that the duo was the thing doing the heavy lifting. ΩSpecial on the axe hits a lot of ground, and the duo boon gives aphrodite's damage buff to all of it.

[past salmon]

Brother 45F Selene Start Moros lost 3 DDs in Erebus and then bricked my build with bad pencil meta literally what am I doing 😭

[plain fossil]

Oh no

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah youll do a lot of damage regardless

[zenith bolt]

clearly the god mode only works when you're playing skull

[plain fossil]

Sometimes 💀 is ur weapon

Sometimes 💀 is ur decisionmaking skills

The duality of man

[zenith bolt]

[lucid pivot]

So a fun challenge at some point will be to do Escalating Ambush on the sister blades and try to get the biggest bonk possible by farming minions against chronos

[past salmon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246695893361496087/1251022759467810867/image.png?ex=666d113c&is=666bbfbc&hm=66a43a2d37c2bf3515f8cd51078a564ad02fab060426a21fb9ed409ce3fe9dfc&
Top 10 saddest things to see in Chronos shop

[plain fossil]

What, by farming summoner rats?

[plain fossil]

Literally my last run i won anyway 💪

[past salmon]

I died 😭

I still suck vs chronos with Moros
feelsbadman

oh well that run was giga cooked from the start anyway lmao

[timber pawn]

Trying to streak 32 fear was demoralizing enough I dint want to imagine 45 lol

[lucid pivot]

Those, and hour glasses. It wouldn't be "good" as there are numerous other strategies that will win faster. But it would be fun to see how high you could get the number on a single ΩAttack

[gloomy imp]

What were you running

[past salmon]

Moros with like
Apollo attack
But it was Selene start so my erebus was bad
And like I lsot all my DDs super early cuz im bad
lmao

[gloomy imp]

[plain fossil]

32 random/gravethirst or 32 with same weapon?

I might try some 32 streaks with weapons im very comfortable with, i unintentionally have about a 6 streak with momus, but with random weapons im too incompetent with daggers

[modern wadi]

can someone explain what "bricking a build" means im sorry

[limpid coral]

it turns into a brick, i.e. useless

[plain fossil]

"Brick" = to make a thing as useful to u as a brick, ie useless

[modern wadi]

oh cools thank you

[limpid coral]

like losing all your mana if u were relying on charge attacks

[plain fossil]

Therefore if something happens to make ur build useless, it is bricked

[modern wadi]

what about "bad pencil meta"

[plain fossil]

Are u familiar with vow of forsaking

[modern wadi]

cant see boons anymore?

[plain fossil]

Yep, it deletes boons from the pool. Each god has 13 boons, some are conditional on others so u cant always see them. Forsaking deleting boons can put u in a situation where the only boons left for the game to offer are ones that will overwrite existing boons

In order to avoid this, people use 3rd party websites or just pencil and paper to write down what they deleted, hence "pencil meta"

[modern wadi]

oh thank you for clarifying

[plain fossil]

@past salmon above failed to do so correctly and ended up in a situation where he had to replace one of three vital boons

And hence his bad pencil meta caused him to brick his build

[modern wadi]

oh cool thanks a lot i was reading like idk what they mean 😭

[plain fossil]

This doesnt happen if u dont mess up badly and is rare enough that we can clown on people that mess it up 🙂 it usually only happens to ppl once then they tighten up lul

[limpid coral]

Ngl I don't understand geyser ring. Like you lose the utility of like freeze ring or scorch ring and such and the damage is super underwhelming in tartarus

[plain fossil]

Its just bugged with a bunch of stuff

[limpid coral]

I fired one with glowing coal at a regular satyr summoner and it did like no damage

[modern wadi]

why doesnt geyser ring apply slip real question

[plain fossil]

Real

[limpid coral]

When is it stronger than just putting the basic cast down and swinging with +30% damage from furies

[tall notch]

I've messed it up enough for me to genuinely pencil meta above 40 fear

[limpid coral]

I guess it can carry through zone 1 and maybe zone 2

[modern wadi]

i finally beat 32F chronos!!

[tall notch]

Death to 32F Chronos!

[limpid coral]

gaming !!

[past salmon]

tbf I dont actually pencil meta I just say that cuz its funny 😭

[plain fossil]

Oh yea i mean if u actually pencil meta it should just never happen

[tall notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1239231202674606130/1244707733601779712/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_7f137de1-390d-41d3-af13-bba37a480155.jpg?ex=665617e9&is=6654c669&hm=3444686c274587870b531d0caec7de7f7f63a26a70a854f82266a895c328dcd1&

[plain fossil]

Yea i hate it so much but i respect that ppl need to

[tall notch]

Pen meta because i didn't have a pencil

[limpid coral]

Alexa, add heph's special and gain to the list

[plain fossil]

Maybe thats the real drawback of forsaking it makes the game more difficult because u cant play the game if u uninstalled out of annoyance

[tall notch]

Chameleon typing out their pencil meta in the channel rn??

[crude ibex]

lol. Nah... was gaming and cursor clicked into discord.

[past salmon]

Maybe the real pencil meta was the friends we made along the way

[plain fossil]

Ur crossed out dw

[past salmon]

ok im done

[crude ibex]

My feeling about the Vow of Forsaking, is that it's about forsaking boons from the pool, right? You choose X option, and there is a cost. And while I'll miss the early days when duos and legs were a breeze to get (miss you already 3-god pool!) 😂 -- when there is only a single choice from a boon reward, that only means that that's the last regular boon left. Not that none of that god's boons remain. Had a Leg or Duo popped, then there would have been a choice to forsake that last regular boon. So, my feeling, is there needs to be some type of choice. Something to forsake, always. No forced bricks, is all I ask. Is that too much? 🙏 And I know, #GitGewd and all. But I mean, it just feels like, "But I wanted to see how that build was about to do to Chronos, man!" Not this now-gimped build! 🤕🤣

P.S. I have changed my mind about the gold. You all were right about that. Needs to be a cost involved.

[past salmon]

ok first of all please stop putting emojis throughout ur messages its hurting me
Second of all, its almost never a forced brick, you should be keeping track of what ur god has left and make the correct decisions
Gambling on a leg/duo showing up is one decision you can make.
And like, if ur argument is "I wanted to see how THAT build was about to do to Chronos" just... dont play with forsaking?
Why are we so shocked when the vow hurts u
its meant to hurt you

[crude ibex]

Ok first of all please don't tell me how to communicate. Full stop.

[past salmon]

I did say please 🥺

[tired fulcrum]

[crude ibex]

Now, this is also why I said there does need to be a cost involved. You're right that there can be a gamble.

[plain fossil]

I wouldnt mind if forsaking let u skip the brick choice in return for some penalty

[calm kelp]

great video. clear info in the breakdown.

nice to have the perspective!

fury is brutal when you're bad

[plain fossil]

But fundamentally the boon needs a full rework its never gonna be balanced

[dusty sapphire]

the other way to do it is that you keep the forsaken boons in the "pool" for rolls, but if it's one of the options that is rolled then replace it with a dud instead of another boon

that would make it a lot worse for sure, dunno if it's too much worse

[plain fossil]

Wow that would be a beating, like a 3-4 fear option

[crude ibex]

an onion maybe?

Instead of a red onion, you can choose Forsaken onion. 10-dmg. 😎

[snow solstice]

So, I had one of the best builds/run so far. Ice Cream Cones: Aspect of Moros
I went into it only looking to see if I could get Sun Worshipper (Hera/Apollo duo.)
Not only did I get that, I also got Funeral Pyre (Hera/Hestia) and Scalding Vapor (Hestia/Poseidon). Plus, I got offered Night Bloom from Selene, and took that too.
Never considered it before, but if I was already raising dead in one way, maybe I'll do another. Full Lich Run? This is the TRUE God mode. lol

[low bear]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1233146305308528650/1251037887923748864/20240614125210_1.jpg?ex=666d1f53&is=666bcdd3&hm=ae853998e90e36da7844fd78c273c4fc90fa5a0db48c161a47f11040d6dd28a2&=&format=webp&width=2057&height=1157

any build suggestions for 42F Mel daggers

[crude ibex]

I literally played a very similar build recently, but with Aspect of Charon Axe. Was using soooo much magic, I was able to have 2 guys fighting almost always. hahaha. I started to come around to it. lol

[past salmon]

Not rlly 😭
Probs my least fav weapon
Probs just use like, similar to artemis and hope for the best
Maybe a special build is viable?
I think u just build into ur hammers maybe

[snow solstice]

Well that settles what weapon I'm going to try for this build next! I do like that Axe aspect the most, too.

[low bear]

yeah it might be my most disliked aspect lol, discount Artemis sounds painful without the omega charge speed buff

I was thinking of just going Poseidon/Static Discharge no magic build but daggers having crap range sounds painful too

[crude ibex]

I went with Apollo Cast & Special, and got lucky with Chaos to get 15m per second (or something like that), it was like never ending magic.

[plain fossil]

This works but it isnt very good, the reason is the flurry in the middle is the bit u want to hit for damage and it has negative range

[past salmon]

yeh ig u can play discount staff too

[plain fossil]

So positioning is almost medea level and the damage isnt there to compensate

[low bear]

Mel Daggers need a rework, backstab damage is just so boring lol

[plain fossil]

Im kinda ok with boring but its also just like not very high

If ur gonna impose positioning requirements like medea does can i at least get medea level damage pls

[low bear]

dagger AoE is also pretty crap

[summer heart]

i kind of expect mel's aspects to be boring but it'd be nice if it was, like, useful at all

[low bear]

Explosive Ambush is borderline required for Artemis imo

[plain fossil]

Its heinous hence u need to click poseidon even its not very good

[low bear]

Mel daggers just feel like it steps on Artemis too much, backstab damage sort of pushes you to build omega attack but it's not nearly as much damage as Artemis

[crude ibex]

Ok... Aspect of Persephone. Seems Apollo's cast is the winner, right? Or is there another cast that generates Glory as fast?

[past salmon]

Zeus is a bit better in my experience

[low bear]

Zeus is faster

[past salmon]

• Zeus comes with Lightning Lance which makes Persephone free

[crude ibex]

Well I'll be. Swapping Keepsakes!

[low bear]

since you don't need to wait for explosion, plus Zeus is better single target damage I think. You have plenty of AoE with Perse anyway

[crude ibex]

Good to know. 🙏

[low bear]

there's no excuse for mel daggers when Mel Axe, Skull, and Torch are all pretty good and have a niche apart from their alternate aspects

[past salmon]

Staff sucks too tho 😭

[low bear]

yeah I meant skull, not staff LOL

staff charge speed should be at least 50%, and is still outclassed by the other 2 omega focused aspects

[dusty sapphire]

Zeus and Pos are both better than Apollo. But Zeus is def the winner

[low bear]

yeah Zeus is the best since Pos cast sucks

[dusty sapphire]

pos cast doesn't suck with persephone

[crude ibex]

Color me intrigued. I guess I just had such a good run with Apollo, I was like, it can't get better, right? But 2 that are better? Nice!

[low bear]

I mean the cast itself sucks, not taking into account synergy with Perse

[dusty sapphire]

the issue with apollo is that while the solar is happening you cannot omega cast again which lowers your overall damage

[gritty heath]

How difficult is Vow of Suffering? I just beat 38F, can't figure out what to take for 40

[dusty sapphire]

suffering1 isn't too bad

[low bear]

just take Hephy

[summer heart]

it's free if you can get trusty shield

[past salmon]

probs suffering
What is ur Fear loadout for 38F if you dont have suffering?

[dusty sapphire]

suffering2 is pure agony, death itself

unless trusty shield then it's nothing ofc

[low bear]

I always have it at max, and just get really good at minimizing hits in Erebus

[gritty heath]

and try to get Heph asap?

[low bear]

Arachne helps tide things along while I don't have Heph yet

[past salmon]

Heph do be OP

[gritty heath]

just seems super inconsistent if u cant get heph

[low bear]

yep pretty much if I don't get him in Erebus I force him in Oceanus

[gritty heath]

hmm

[low bear]

it's consistent if you can minimize getting hit in Erebus

The enemies aren't too bad in Erebus anyway. And in Oceanus you can mitigate it somewhat by getting hit with steam

[gritty heath]

ooh thats smart

at higher fears like this, whats your expected winrate? like I've only been winning runs where I get my preferred god pool very early, not sure if thats normal

[past salmon]

the 6 armoured hippos hiding behind 50 other enemies would like to say otherwise

[low bear]

I push fear for the single victories so I don't really take win rate into account. Some aspects are much easier than others though definitely

[low bear]

lmao get rekt

at high fear, strong starts are nearly required or the timer will eat you up

[gritty heath]

gotcha

[past salmon]

the higher you go the lower the winrate
I can win 40F like 80% of the time at this point
If I play skulls and im not throwing 45F is the same
But I've played a LOT of high fear to get to that point

My 50F clear took like 60 something attempts so that is quite a low clearrate

[gritty heath]

yeah my 38 I got my ideal god pool in erebus

[past salmon]

And I would say 60 attempts for 50F is on the very low end

I know Twoeleven is like triple that at this point tho he is trying on a more luck reliant weapon than I was

[gritty heath]

I've been playing manaless staff

[past salmon]

Manaless staff is very strong

[gritty heath]

What's the meta build?

[past salmon]

one of 2 weapons other than old Momus that have cleared 50F

[low bear]

manaless staff I'm guessing is just Pos attack, static shock, 2x hammer and Rapid atk hammer

[past salmon]

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1wJ4m1u7zF/

[low bear]

and Demeter for origination proc, hephy for defense

[past salmon]

this is the 50F clear
They run Zeus attack altho Poseidon maybe better?
Basically just want double hit hammer + wicked or rapid
Static shock is great

[gritty heath]

okay yep, ive been doin basically the same thing. i messed around with aphro attack but pos feels much better

[low bear]

zeus attack is interesting

[gritty heath]

pos zeus demeter feels so cozy

[past salmon]

Blitz is underrated

[low bear]

I think Pos is still probably better but I guess he just took what he could get

[past salmon]

he started with Zeus keepsake tho tbf

[low bear]

definitely Aprho's close requirment can be rough and the AoE for pos is better

[low bear]

ah

[past salmon]

probably mainly for static shock tho, I assume he realised Blitz attack is just rlly good anyway and better taking it than hunting for something else

[low bear]

I think one problem for Pos might be knocking foes away too much

[gritty heath]

my logic was aphro attack takes better advantage of the +30 power hammer, and also aphro has a +power boon

[low bear]

esp with double hammer, blitz might be faster when enemies are grouped

[low bear]

that's true if you do get +30 hammer then Hera/Aphro/Apollo is the way imo

[gritty heath]

yea im just not sure where the single target damage is coming from in hera/demeter/zeus

like obv ur clear is nuts

[tall notch]

Hera attack is 2nd best percentage modifier

[past salmon]

@meager gust
Not a full solution but the chaos gate will make a sound which will be directional and can make it FAR easier to find #h2-feedback message

[low bear]

Hera is also just easy 1/2 origination

[past salmon]

Hera do go crazy'

[low bear]

Hera's core boons are great, her support boons suck

[tired fulcrum]

Hera is highest % modifier outside of cast range

[meager gust]

oh yea, ik. it just saves some time trying to not scower the entire area just for the chaos gate

[plain fossil]

What i will say with respect to pos vs not-pos for these things is: when the damage is even vaguely close just click pos every time its SO much more utility

It knocks off blue shields, has some minor defensive benefit, and has excellent AOE

[low bear]

I wonder if they chose Zeus for origination activation too

[plain fossil]

Yea it is god efficient

Something ppl dont really realize about zeus is that when its on ur main skill its actually a %boon in disguise

It scales with how much dps ur base hits are doing

And if ur playing to highroll wicked thrasher + 30dmg hammer then suddenly thats a 55x2 base damage weapon and poseidon starts looking relatively alot worse

[low bear]

Kinda but it doesn't scale with extra power

[plain fossil]

No, it does

The more ur base hits do, the more often per-hit it triggers

[tired fulcrum]

Zeus scales with your damage but if you have larger hits he scales less good and if you have too much damage then you just have icd issues

[civic ocean]

WTD has the right of it in practice - the more damage you do the more damage you're usually going to get out of blitz

also I finally got a 32f rotating run done

[plain fossil]

The icd is so tilt hey

32f all weps or all aspects

15 aspects rotating pretty impressive ngl

[civic ocean]

32f all weps consecutively

[plain fossil]

Ok still solid id brick daggers rn lul

Gz

It makes me bit sad actually that blitz scales bit like a % boon

It makes the options for fast weapons so limited

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah we dont really have much variety in flat damage

[plain fossil]

U have poseidon and hestia and flame flourish in particular is rly undertuned

[tall notch]

You can click Poseidon or... Poseidon

[past salmon]

WE HAVE SCORCH WOOOO

[tired fulcrum]

Poseidon and scorch function too similarly except scorch bad

[plain fossil]

I think flame strike is clickable? I tried it on torches its not THAT bad

[tall notch]

Don't say that East is in the channel

[plain fossil]

But wtf is flame flourish man 15 scorch is the saddest

Every other god: ur special boon scales better than ur attack boon

Hestia: LUL U CLICKED SPECIAL SCRUB

[tired fulcrum]

Its pom gains are also like half the value of poseidom pom gains

Poseidon special is like 10/8/7 hestia is like 5/3/2 or something

[plain fossil]

I think we can all just agree flame flourish doesnt exist lul

[civic ocean]

scorch is pretty bad but it was on 2 of the 5 runs in the 32F all weps run I just did

[dusty sapphire]

I love how soot sprint applies literally 2 scorch

[plain fossil]

Wym soot sprint applies scorch in stacks of 200

U run in circles while eris doing shotgun and then she 200 scorch very efficient highly recommended

[summer heart]

the scorch on soot sprint is an afterthought lbr

[plain fossil]

Its not wonderful but its also not nothing

[hollow stag]

What is Apollo’s Legendary interaction with Torch Omega Attacks and Specials, are there double the projectiles?

[dusty sapphire]

it costs 23 magick per shot

so the interaction is don't do it

doesn't work on eos because daybreakers are hard capped at 1

[hollow stag]

Even with Hera’s Born Gain?

[dusty sapphire]

you will actually manage to run out of magick with born gain

you are literally spending like almost 50 magick a second (don't know the exact rate of fire but I know it's more than one per second)

[past salmon]

ok here is a question

[still girder]

wooo thank you pan for getting me to chronos at 24 heat. now to see if i can win!

shame i only got spiral knives and no hook knives but better than lame hammers

[past salmon]

is getting spiteful strength a better idea than activating coarse grit
Like obviously it isnt but its more HYPE right???https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246695893361496087/1251060369640652821/image.png?ex=666d3443&is=666be2c3&hm=d9faedb484713bdc10aea9a1c9fdb137cf61502a2f80691082f02a86927d83cd&

[plain fossil]

Ur still in fields u have time

[past salmon]

@plain fossil I know you want to see me die to my own hubris by taking Spiteful

this is last room of fields
Lol
Only other chance for grit is if I take an extra room in tart or smth

[civic ocean]

just get it in tart end shop

[plain fossil]

Maybe u buy it from charon mang

[past salmon]

also how much do duos prime again

[plain fossil]

Besides double damage is good way to not take damage

[civic ocean]

30

[past salmon]

oh thats fine then
Ima do it its so much more hype

[past salmon]

it was 40 💀

[plain fossil]

Isnt it 40

I had this exact same conversation with mynt and legendaries last week lul

Did it turn off ur huntress temporarily lul

[low bear]

Duos are considered Lego tier

[civic ocean]

lmao woops

[past salmon]

ok sick cerb fight
I sure did just burst 1st phase with Mint condition
And then Total Eclipse invuln and burst 2nd phase
LMFAO

[low bear]

and they shouldn't be imo

[civic ocean]

what fear is this

[past salmon]

45 Moros

[plain fossil]

Oh u actually need mana alright

I keep going through this cycle where im like SURELY ZERO MANA MOROS IS PLAYABLE then i load up a run, click regular special 3 times and give up

[civic ocean]

I did 0 mana mel today

[past salmon]

0 mana mel works

[plain fossil]

Yea i played some 0 mana mel its alright hey

I find the attack to have kinda bad coverage but the damage is really solid

[past salmon]

those were some of the tart rooms of all time

[civic ocean]

moros can work in theory

[past salmon]

I love actually 100 enemies on my screen and it is only hourglasses and skulls

[civic ocean]

you need to be extremely sicknasty with it tho

[past salmon]

fellas I am not getting the grit 😭

[civic ocean]

no regrits

[plain fossil]

Tbf moros is way better against skulls than something like medea

[plain fossil]

See im not so sure about this, i get the logic but im also aware that both the attack and non-omega special have pretty strict positioning requirements that often dont overlap and repositioning is a dps loss

Happy to be proven wrong but i know im never gonna be able to do it in a manner that doesnt have me dashing into really bricked situations

Maybe mechanical gods can idk

I keep thinking MAYBE ITS POSSIBLE then quitting the run going wtf was i thinking i must be an idiot

[civic ocean]

In theory it has a higher upside than mel right

[plain fossil]

If u could like pick up the regular cast with ur fingers and place it on top of the bombs one by one yea

[past salmon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246695893361496087/1251063842625294347/20240614164049_1.jpg?ex=666d377f&is=666be5ff&hm=3938472af87d345bb352fa77bc44958824f8083048e924b2332f73a80a3a48df&
I'm pretty sure that 150 from Chronos was literally 2 hits lmao
No DDs lost on Chronos is nice
Didn't skill issue massively
Even played to Iframe Instakill

[civic ocean]

I don't wanna do it rn because I would lose a lot and I'm trying to do 40 chronos 40 eris by end of the month

[plain fossil]

For sure, thats the upside

Its just in practice u hit 1 or 2 bombs with ur omega special and ur like why do i even exist what is life

[past salmon]

Also I think Spiteful was the correct play
Idk if I make timer without it

Honestly Moros is kind of insanely strong atm
Sort of reminds me of Pan
If you want to do 50F with it I think you just hope you highroll insane build erebus

Gotta do the twoeleven tech

[plain fossil]

Yea its good

But its a mana build soooooo

[civic ocean]

did twoeleven get the 50

[past salmon]

no

Idek if they are still doing attempts tbh
Pan 50 is miserable

[past salmon]

honestly im not too sure how much worse Mana builds even are atm with current born gain
Like they are still worse cuz they suck until u get it

buit I mean
I could do 48 Moros I'm pretty sure easily enough

45 only took me 2 attempts so

honestly probably like 49F Moros actually
Just dont run panic a

[low bear]

Will putting hammer keepsake on Oceanus keep it until Chronos

Assuming I take most shortcuts because deadline

[past salmon]

ummm
Sometimes
I think
I think a lot of the time it doesnt

If you get Ix in fields almost definitely yes maybe?

Since that skips 2 encounters minimum

[low bear]

I gurss I'll put on Chaos instead then

[plain fossil]

Ye i mean panic prob sucks a lot less on moros than pan right

[past salmon]

I think its about the same honestly
Moros maybe has it slightly better
They both kinda just suck until u get born gain

[plain fossil]

Because while zero mana moros might have mechanical issues per the above conversation, zero mana pan is the same as being unarmed

[past salmon]

almost true ig

I definitely dont see any magick reliant weapon clearing above 50F anyway tbh

Starting 30 Magick pool is yikes

or 50 sorryt

[gritty heath]

yall were so right about hephastus

40 fear down, did basically the same build as 38 except with heph as my 4th

[plain fossil]

Heph gud

[bleak night]

Heph is good for support, yep

[gritty heath]

still was taking a crazy amount of damage but at least i could mess up once a room

[low bear]

Heph defense good. Mint condition good

[past salmon]

Mint condition is like top 2 boons in the game I stg

actually I will have the perfect example as to why when my Moros 45F uploads

[plain fossil]

Thats because u like standing on top of ppl lul i dont rate it nearly that high tho its probs top 10 for me

Arctic ring and trusty shield definitely way up top

[past salmon]

Even without it makes unplayable rooms playable
And also saves a lot on time since you can play super hard agro

[plain fossil]

Hey i mean its good i just dont think its trusty shield good

[bleak night]

I think it's top tier because of how much time you generally save by just oonga-boonga'ing. Minibosses usually last under Mint Condition's duration since you can facetank and take nothing

[plain fossil]

At least not for me i like to hide in corners a lot

[past salmon]

I mean the difference is trusty shield doesnt save you from the dreaded 100 hourglass tart room 💀

[bleak night]

Like, you can have any sort of playstyle you want, but the moment Mint Condition activates you'd swap to hyper aggression to capitalize all the time

I'd love an audio cue though

[past salmon]

yeh Mint just saves an awful lot of time throughout the run

[plain fossil]

Sure but its clearly less valuable on builds that can dps at range or on the move

[past salmon]

An audio queue would be nice
The timer is kinda just engraved into my brain now
I died to greeding too many times 💀

[plain fossil]

Yea i count to 8 in my head

[past salmon]

most builds that dps at range still do more dps up close

[surreal hazel]

Mint Condition and Hydraulic Might are a fine pair for the suicidally reckless

[past salmon]

Hydraulic Might is the only boon I ever want from Poseidon on most weapons lol
I rlly only want poseidon on Blades/Staff

[surreal hazel]

I'm convinced the staf benefits from it more than the blades now

like, the attack speed after certain upgrades is way higher on the staff

[low bear]

I still take Trusty of Mint because of Suffering, but mint do be good

[plain fossil]

Are u sure? The only one i can think of at all really is mel skulls

[bleak night]

I do more damage in melee using Charon

[past salmon]

Pan sort of
Unless u have specifically lightning lance
Charon in the same boat

[plain fossil]

Momus doesnt, pan and charon dont assuming u have a ranged cast which u should, torches are close range

[past salmon]

unless that ranged cast is specifically lightning lance

glowing coal is slow
U will do more damage on top of them

[bleak night]

Charon is still better melee for raw damage numbers when in invilnerability state because the Omega Special comes out faster and you have a better opportunity to angle it so it's going to tap the target twice

[past salmon]

Arent Mel torches kinda longish range

[plain fossil]

I mean i view lightning lance as core on charon idk

[plain fossil]

Oh i guess u get an extra 140 sure

[past salmon]

I mean you cant always assume ur just going to get lightning lance

[bleak night]

It's def not core, imo

[past salmon]

and ur defs not forcing Zeus that seems silly

[bleak night]

Taking a god just for the one boon is kinda rough

[surreal hazel]

Mel torches are the most up close and personal ones?

[plain fossil]

I force lightning lance really hard on charon ngl

[bleak night]

Hestia is better for Charon because Glowing Coal and Smolder Ring are both viable

[plain fossil]

Like if i dont have it by a2 im clicking zeus keepsake

[past salmon]

at high fear im kinda talking about
Which is where Mel torches dont press the special button

[bleak night]

I'm at a point where I skip Zeus on Charon runs now

[surreal hazel]

Then why are you taking the mel torches at all?

[past salmon]

Eos is a rangedish weapon that does more damage up close aswell

[plain fossil]

I like hestia as well, if i see her in erebus i click

I just think lightning lance is super insane on it and i also like the flourish

[past salmon]

Because it is the best no magick torch, Eos cancels ur channelling for some reaosn? Moros duders can egt stuck on each other and is awkward to play

[surreal hazel]

I guess

[bleak night]

I tried Blitz on Special and I think it's kinda bad because you get that damage boost off of Hera and Apollo as is.

[plain fossil]

Eos is a build where ur not on the same screen as most of ur dps, mint condition does make u safer when ur spamming special tho sure

[surreal hazel]

Blitz is a weird one

[past salmon]

Yeh but u do the most damage by playing with the daybreaker
Which mint condition allows you to do

[plain fossil]

I mean if we're talking about god efficiency i really dont like apollo

I understand why u like the special i just dont want the rest of his kit

[past salmon]

I think apollo is one of the worst overall gods in the game tbh
Him and Hestia
Hestia being worse

[bleak night]

Apollo works pretty well on it because you still immensely appreciate his Sprint and other Daze options at that high fear

[past salmon]

Like
I dont hate getting Apollo
But everytime I get apollo
Its like okay ig because I cant get hera ill take apollo
Or I cant get Aphro Ill take apollo etc

Like ig its better than nothing the god fr

Sprint is rlly good tho

[surreal hazel]

Big axe swing big

[plain fossil]

It is

[bleak night]

Apollo's fun for AoE explosions ig. Maybe there'll be an aspect that immensely enjoys it down the line

[surreal hazel]

SuperNova is my most picked boon for some reason too

[plain fossil]

Anyway if i deleted hera flourish in room 1 then im happy with zeus flourish, is my point

[bleak night]

Supernova's pretty good on Charon too, I forgot about it a bit lol

[bleak night]

My issue with it is I've noticed that it's inconsistent in the Blitz pop timings. Sometimes it lasts until after my Cast burst gets the Origination bonus, sometimes it pops earlier

Might be due to my Omega Special hitting the target twice to allow it to pop, which makes me not want to tag the target 2x unless I have Cyclone + Status already on my cast

[surreal hazel]

Bltiz also kinda wants certain duos to make it good

[plain fossil]

Well in christmas land ive got 2 curses from demeter so i dont care, but sure i get what ur saying

[bleak night]

Won't always be that lucky though

[plain fossil]

Man i want no duos with charon blitz lul

[surreal hazel]

No Apocalyptic Storm?

[bleak night]

Like, the ideal build is Dem Cast + Cyclone with Apollo Special and their duo + Born Gain, but I barely get it

[past salmon]

I don't even agree with Ur opinion WaytooDumb but Ur fighting on the side of Blitz so I will back you up 🙏

[plain fossil]

Yea for me i just never want apollo personally im much happier with lightning lance

Lightning lance is my bro

[bleak night]

Not intuitive to my playstyle, but I can see why it's good

[plain fossil]

No repositioning required no clever dash cancels no timing block into counter-special just plonk it down from 1 screen away and take my 800 damage

[bleak night]

Kinda makes you build bad habits for higher fears, no?

[surreal hazel]

Lightning lance being instant is a lot nicer than glowing coal or howling soul

[past salmon]

@plain fossil hides in the corner every room and then wonders why he struggles with timer giggles

Ok I need to stop

[bleak night]

You tend to want to reposition all the time

That way you can tag your next group of targets sooner

[plain fossil]

I mean i dont think standing far away from things that can hit u is a bad habit

[bleak night]

It kinda is if it uses up time needing to approach the straying enemies because you're not in aggro range

[plain fossil]

Well with lightning lance and charon u dont rly have range issues lul its probably the most longrange build in the game after they killed old momus

[bleak night]

I find long range Charon suboptimal, honestly. I can easily 2x tag without Apollo by going medium range

[plain fossil]

Man i struggle with the timer cos im a grumpy 40 year old man that unless im paying attention i will walk from a to b

No sprint no dash i walk

[bleak night]

Glowing Coal doesn't suffer as much because it has travel time, so you have the opportunity to reposition

[past salmon]

You should start sauntering instead

[bleak night]

I'd appreciate Zeus on Charon more if the Cast wasn't bad on it, ig

I suppose it's good, actually, just not for the Cast burst playstyle. Local Climate is fun, too

[plain fossil]

I should play more local climate its fun but i seem to die a lot

[surreal hazel]

local climate is a mel torches thing

become the cylcone

[bleak night]

Local Climate on Charon is a must-get whether you wanna Storm Ring or play it as intended

[surreal hazel]

Also, Local Climate with Momos keeps the repeating pulses stuck to you

[bleak night]

The passive boost to the Omega Cast on burst is fun

Can choose to just not let it follow you

[surreal hazel]

Local Climate and Gyser Ring on Momos.... Curse of Drowning?

I've shown this before, but there's also the other cast build: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw89MeARRsw

[plain fossil]

Yea the one actual use for geyser ring lul i uh

Im not going to say i like it, but i do appreciate it

[bleak night]

What am I looking at lol, idk what the Path nodes for Dark Side are

[surreal hazel]

There's one Sublime that makes your cast always an omega cast

and Gesyer ring instant detonates... and lightning lance is instant travel time

Spam spam spam spam spam

for 1000 damage each tap, like 3-4 times a second

[bleak night]

I should play with this Hex more on meme runs

[surreal hazel]

basically the only sublime that can break the game for it

the others are.... special gets special boon, attack gets attack boon. And while they really help... eh?

[gritty heath]

hydraulic might is weird as a poseidon boon, since it doesnt affect waves i assume

but it does sound like a fun combo

[surreal hazel]

Carryover boon from Hades 1, albeit considerably more powerful

and it's +% damage, it doesn't benefit less from waves than anything else, so it's not an anti-synergy

[plain fossil]

Man i want to play this game but my cat is demanding belly rubs

[gritty heath]

oh right, additive not multiplicative

[plain fossil]

I should play one handed its not like i can get any slower vs timer 💀

[surreal hazel]

I guess it works nicer with Nova Strike and flourish?

[limpid kraken]

What's better for bone farm? rod + toula or spade + toula?

[plain fossil]

uh worst fish is still better than best plant i think and requires no setup

why do projectiles collide with revenants 💀

[past salmon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvaW-CEsVB8
Mint Condition carry @plain fossil at like 28m

still lost a DD tho 😭

I actually cant even tell what hit me tbh

[glossy rivet]

with eos torches should i put % or flat dmg on special?

[low bear]

anyone have a video of a high fear Eos run? I keep running out of time

[low bear]

I don't know the math but I prefer Rod Toula just so I don't have to fish myself

[limpid kraken]

please correct me if i'm wrong but sometimes i think you get two seeds instead?

[pine patio]

You often do IIRC and I think you find seeds more often than fish just overall

But never really did the numbers on them

[limpid kraken]

that's fair, lol

[low bear]

fish are worth more bones though

and you overcap on seeds pretty quickly

[limpid kraken]

i've felt this too. like i feel like if i'm running rod + toula, i should be getting way more fishing spots

[pine patio]

Fish is lower maintenance wrt the whole gardening thing so I prefer them anyway

[plain fossil]

Thats pretty good highroll for mint condition

On the other hand trusty shield saves u a dd every single time its good nearly

I dont disagree that mint condition is a really really good boon i just dont think its better than trusty shield

[low bear]

I still prefer Trusty over Mint but they are close

Mint also suffers in high wave rooms

[tough pasture]

i just watched a haelian vid on the skull aspect of melinoe + possessed array + apollo legendary build run and lol...that is waaaaaaaaay more broken than the momus + double moonshot ever was.

[past salmon]

I mean
Not really
It does more damage sure
Momus required way less stuff and was also way safer

There is plenty of stuff that did more damage than old momus double moonshot

or could* I guess

[tough pasture]

what? you basically need one hammer for it to be ridiculous...

How is that any different momus needing double moonshot?

[summer heart]

old momus was broken because it was both completely braindead and remarkably consistent

[plain fossil]

Momus got to do all its damage while parked on the other side of the moon where nothing could hit it

[past salmon]

?
Possessed array alone is not close to Old Momus double moonshot

[plain fossil]

If u want to do damage with the mel skull combo u need to at least be in the same postcode as enemies

[tough pasture]

Sure. i realize melinoe skull requires player to retrieve the skull but the movement make sense...standing in 1 place against chronos was a way to take a lot of damage.

[tough pasture]

I'm curious...why not? Is it because of the distance afforded due to the intrinsic homing?

[plain fossil]

I mean its got nothing to do with homing unless u couldnt aim

Its because in order to do sustained dps u need to be on top of the boss

[tough pasture]

then what am I missing?

[past salmon]

It was way safer
And although I havent done calcs, im also pretty sure Double Momus + Poseidon just like
Did more damage than Possessed + Attack boon
lol
IM almost positive

[plain fossil]

Which is not as convenient a location as across the screen

[tough pasture]

oh you mean for like chronos?

[past salmon]

Like you watched a video showing the absolute high end of the build which is with Keen intuition (weed killer is better but keen works) and Apollo legendary
And at that point it is a bit better than Momus with 2 items

[plain fossil]

Really i mean for anything that is capable of hitting u

This game doesnt have proximity shields or other mechanics that force u close so its pretty much always better to stand at distance

[tough pasture]

i see, i see...so the ease of use of old momus is why many/all (?) rate it as more broken.

[past salmon]

Possessed is crazy and I think it needs a bit of a nerf but comparing it to old Momus is crazy

[plain fossil]

Its really about safety rather than execution, although mel skulls is certainly harder to play

[past salmon]

I mean to put it simply, Old Momus cleared 50F with very low difficulty.
Twoeleven took 2 hours to do 50F Momus
He has spent like minimum 20x that trying to do 50F with Pan
It was an absurd weapon in so many ways

[plain fossil]

I feel like old momus did more dps than possessed mel skulls but im not sure like u

[past salmon]

Momus became absurdly strong by picking up 2 items

and you basically didnt need anything else for the rest of the run

[plain fossil]

That helps but also even the highroll of mel skulls id still rather do content on the highroll of old momus

Like if u got to item editor in ur favourite 10 boons and 2 hammers

[past salmon]

yeh im pretty sure Momus also just straight up did more damage anyway

[plain fossil]

Id rather play momus

[past salmon]

unless you got like weed killer bolstered and apollo leg or smth crazy

[plain fossil]

Eh idk i mean possessed + bolstered is a LOT of damage

[past salmon]

yeh but thats 2 specific hammers

[plain fossil]

I know im talking about the highroll

[past salmon]

fair

[tough pasture]

i quite like the new verison of momus...more interesting (reminds me of lucifer aspect from hades 1)

[low bear]

Possessed + Weed + Keen + Apollo Lego + Silver Streak sounds like it would be insane

[past salmon]

omg hi boron how are you boron where you been boron

[tender anvil]

Rant time - Erebus is waaaay too much rng with how many rooms you actually have to take. It nominally consists of 12 rooms before the boss, but actually can go anywhere between 5(!) and 11 (two shops, arachne, chaos, nemesis, artemis, fountain). This results in extreme high-rollyness of 50 Fear attempts, where everything is very tight

[tender anvil]

Been taking a short break, and then banging my head against 50 meli flames

[past salmon]

yep 50F

[tender anvil]

Happy to see you as well

[past salmon]

it sure does make you mald at erebus
Nothing quite like getting insane god RNG but bad room RNG and losing to timer

I wish they just moved one room from erebus into oceanus

[tender anvil]

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking as well. Can’t count the number of attempts where I got a proper build but crazy long room 11, and then die to timer. On the other hand, I’ve had attempts arriving at Hecate with like 3 mins to spare and no boons almost

Did like 100 attempts so far, that early one making it to Tart was a fluke, apparently

[past salmon]

yeh
Genuinely just the 1 room would be fine
Im either dying halfway through erebus anyway or im dying in hecate fight to timer with not much inbetween

[past salmon]

Damn bro is grindingh

[tender anvil]

Eh, most take like 5 minutes, I’d say the rate of passing Erebus is around 10%

[past salmon]

I've started working on practicing for a 45F all weapons streak
I can do Axe and Skulls consistently
Flames is pretty consistent
Staff will be my starter so I dont need to worry about it
Blades kinda just sucks

[bronze bear]

Are all sources of % additional damage additive, or are there any multiplicative ones?

[tender anvil]

I’m going to get that 50 (unless they patch the boons and strategy is no longer viable)

[past salmon]

I thought it was all additive but I dont even know anymore people keep saying otherwise I stg it is tho 😭
I think silver streak is potentially multiplicative tho

[tender anvil]

Wow, seems incredibly tough, but if someone can do it - that’s you

[past salmon]

Also Crits are multiplicative with everything

[tender anvil]

Did @slate pecan complete that Pan run?

[past salmon]

I'm also feeling optimistic about 53F although im putting it on hold atm
I decided to do more 48F Mel skulls runs as practice and out of the 4 practice runs I did all 4 made it to Chronos

and 3 of them died to Chronos cuz I suck

[bronze bear]

yeah I'm aware crits are multiplicative, but is everything else additive? Like Hermes' Infused boon that gives +20% damage, Evil Eye +30%, etc.

[past salmon]

yes

[tender anvil]

Fairly sure it is additive

[past salmon]

I don't think so

[bronze bear]

alright thanks

[tender anvil]

Well, I’ll keep you posted on when I pass the meli flames challenge. But damn, I hate the rng, really hope they change the length or otherwise guarantee the number of “free” rooms

[past salmon]

Yeh I hope so too
Gl with it!
You've already got a tart run which is more than I had before getting the Medea 50F
So surely soon
Its just a matter of RNG at this point
Ur clearly capable

[tender anvil]

That’s the thing, it’s demoralizing knowing that I have it, and just need the game not to screw me over

[past salmon]

Tis the way of Hades high fear unfortunately

[tender anvil]

I always start rooms 9-11 looking at the timer, and hoping it freezes (meaning Nemesis/Artemis)

[past salmon]

Well if it helps I'm pretty sure Mynt is also struggling through 50F atm

[tender anvil]

I really realized how egregious it is at 50 (excluding old Momus here). On lower fear (including 45s) you can somewhat brute force Erebus, but 50 just makes it impossible even with perfect play

[past salmon]

Yeah unfortunately everything just keeps stacking and stacking on top of each other

This is a big reason why I chose to do Medea 50F over Mel skulls 50F aswell
Gameplay wise Medea was MUCH harder it just had a higher chance of making it out of erebus

[slate pecan]

No i stopped having fun so there's no point

[tender anvil]

Makes sense, yeah. Have there been any other 50s throughout last week?

[past salmon]

I believe the only 50Fs are still me and the Circe one

[tender anvil]

I’m currently in the “anger” part of the acceptance process

[slate pecan]

I may resume my grind in the future

[past salmon]

based honestly

I'm having more fun going for 45F streak atm than grinding 53F atm anyway

[bleak night]

lol relatable.

[tender anvil]

So basically, Meli Flames needs born gain, hera attack and antler. Then, once in 10 runs you get those, you also need good room rng on top

[past salmon]

is Moros potentially an angle

[slate pecan]

That 50 pan isn't that hard actually imo, just gotta stop pretending you're playing pan (unless you happen to have the pan essentials) and play it like a Mel aspect without backstabs

[tender anvil]

Possibly, something I need to try, have no experience with the aspect

[past salmon]

I have a 45F clear if u want to see it

I think Moros might be able to forgo antler since its base is quite high

[tender anvil]

Yeah, DM me please

Really, the damage is not the problem (imho). It’s these last huge Erebus rooms with mobs all over the place and 3 spawn waves, taking a whole minute

[wind kettle]

i find it pretty hard to get a good build rolling upwards of 37 heat, the onion vow really hampers stuff

[past salmon]

imo dont put on onion till 45 at the earliest (unless ur doing surface, its pretty free on surface)

[wind kettle]

yeah, i figured I would just get used to it for later runs. but I got hardstuck

[past salmon]

its honestly probably easier to get "used" to the other stuff since Onion simply slows you down

[knotty fulcrum]

what fear did you run? blue hearts or revenant

[past salmon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvaW-CEsVB8

@knotty fulcrum ^

[knotty fulcrum]

hm intresting

I play panic and start with born gain

anyway gg really impresive because no coarse grit

[past salmon]

I did have coarse grit for like

a singular room
was kinda fire
lmao

[knotty fulcrum]

wait what. how can you have it for just 1 room

[past salmon]

I lost it cuz im dumb and vow of forsaking is a real vow that exists lmao

[knotty fulcrum]

oh ok

[wind kettle]

well i just destroyed my run with executioner's chop

[stuck leaf]

Hey guys, looking for suggestions for a 16 fear skull build, having a bit of trouble with that weapon

[plain fossil]

My man out here like ONION ISNT HARD ENOUGH IM MAKING MY OWN ONIONS

[plain fossil]

Zero mana mel skulls

[past salmon]

or just go MEDEA
MEDEA OWNS

[stuck leaf]

Mel aspect ?

[stuck leaf]

Which gods would you suggest

[plain fossil]

Click panic, arrogance, double speed, forsaking and whatever other 4 fear sounds easiest, like double money double scars or something

[past salmon]

hera attack Zeus special

[plain fossil]

Click huntress card, click hera attack and just go to town

[stuck leaf]

Ohhh sounds fun I’ll try !!

[plain fossil]

Cmon man dont recommend medea to unsuspecting 16f people thats cyberbullying

[stuck leaf]

So just spam attack>special>attack>special ?

[plain fossil]

Thats the medea rotation yea

[stuck leaf]

Also I’ve seen somewhere that Blitz doesn’t count for origination, is that true ?

[plain fossil]

Uh partially

Blitz doesnt count itself for origination

While its up it counts if ur hitting with something else

[stuck leaf]

That’s weird 😭

[past pewter]

Hey at least medea can freely run the magick limiting vows

[celest swallow]

with dashes in between as needed to avoid damage, ye

[knotty fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/829664956182036492/1251150017096454266/image.png?ex=666d87c1&is=666c3641&hm=d8b8922aff228dc576f28dd61be2f82956790e1c1b6e24e814d9ae27318abc10&

absolutely insane

[tall notch]

Didn't pencil meta hard enough smh

[plain fossil]

hey thats cool the hera hestia duo works when ur channelling even when u have no mana

so if u are, for example, zero mana torches u just have this permanent scorch aura up

[steel sequoia]

i dont understand that but looks cool

[plain fossil]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/751691459580919834/1251155231950110833/image.png?ex=666d8c9c&is=666c3b1c&hm=a3c61efe77b7ee89b00c2d1710aa16762d07153ff18068c602f7955f25e7fd82&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=750&height=421

red circle is the hera hestia duo, it spams a 90 scorch stack aura every second or so

[steel sequoia]

oh i got it now, thats nice its working

[plain fossil]

it only works when ur channeling an omega move but it works when u have no mana so if ur zero mana torches then u just have a spam scorch aura

which is kind of cool ig

[steel sequoia]

its a good duo for torch yeah

[dim kestrel]

does zero mana Moros torches work?

[steel sequoia]

i believe yes

u just cant charge specials and attacks, you make it manually

which is slower probably

[past salmon]

Yeh but it's super awkward and most people opt for Mel on 0 mana torches

[dim kestrel]

basically just aspectless torches, because the attack actually keeps moving?

[past salmon]

Yeh

[meager bramble]

Won my first Judgement run - fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that was fun

[steel sequoia]

i liked eos better than moros but moros looks stronger. miss the old mel tho

[meager bramble]

(I figured that would be fine by the censors lol)

Though I imagine it must feel a good deal less great up top right now

[dim kestrel]

I started doing a bunch of Judgment runs on lower Fear after climbing up the Fear ladder for Testaments/statues... it is pretty fun, though would be rough on higher Fear I think

[meager bramble]

Oh yeah, I mean it's the opposite of reliable - but GODS is it FUN

[dim kestrel]

what Fear did you do it with?

[meager bramble]

Only like 6 lol, I'm still a babby for Fear

[dim kestrel]

same, I was doing Fury 2 and nothing else

just to keep my reflexes up

[steel sequoia]

im trying to keep the lowest fear to 12

[dim kestrel]

my go to starting Arcana has been Sorceress, Swift Runner, Artificer. I don't normally run Artificer, but since the whole point was to lean into the RNG I didn't want to run rerolls, and getting any extra majors helped a lot with early game

[meager bramble]

Artificer's a great idea

I took Eternity cos I was a scared babby, but like I didn't start dropping DDs until past Erebus, it probably wasn't that smart a pick

Oh and like, I did upgrade Judgement the full way before trying it lol

[dim kestrel]

definitely helps to have that safety net, sure. I considered that for sure, but found if I got those few extra boons/hearts/etc early on, it felt better to draw DD later. Though one run I never drew Eternity; that was... interesting

yeah, same, I had done one run earlier on on 0 Fear using the only partially upgraded Judgment, but nicer to have the fully upgraded one for sure

[dreamy dawn]

what would you guys recommend to to spend nightmares on for each weapon?

[plain fossil]

Aspect balance is pretty decent this patch amongst the 10 non-mel aspects

Just pick whatever feels fun, upgrade it to level 3, do a run to see if its enjoyable and if so upgrade it to 5

[dreamy dawn]

mainly asking this cuz I'm hesitant between moros and eos

[plain fossil]

Moros is currently "better" but theyre both playable and imo eos is more fun to play

[steel sequoia]

we cant say what you will like more, u will have to test, both are good

[plain fossil]

Id upgrade whichever one is more fun for u rather than go oh ok the dudes on the internet said moros is better

[dreamy dawn]

oke I'm gonna boost moros up to 3 and test it, any fun build recommendations?

[bleak night]

there's a maxed out save if you wanna try level 5 aspects without spending nmare yet

[plain fossil]

The basic gameplay loop for moros is load up an omega special then jump in and hold down the attack button

[sacred edge]

Very fun when you get judgment from crystal figureen.

[bleak night]

True, though it's a massive gamble sadly

[plain fossil]

Its pretty flexible, u do need some mana so hera start for born gain is good

[dreamy dawn]

thanks for the advice 🫂

[plain fossil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvaW-CEsVB8 this is one of the discord regulars doing a 45f moros

Give u some idea of what ur supposed to do

[foggy plover]

was playing around with hestia for a bit.
got demeter and hestia duo boon.
stacked up 36,461,900 scorch on ||chronos||.
only did 68,517 actual scorch damage.
scorch feels kinda weak.

[bleak night]

Yep, you need Fire Extinguisher too much

[spare kite]

At least that's the highest scorch I've ever heard lmfao

[foggy plover]

i actually purposely avoided it that run because i wanted to test the limits of scorch but im quite baffled at just how bad the damage it does without air quality or the hestia legendary actually is

[bleak night]

Hestia needs a rework entirely, especially since it's harder to even activate Fire Extinguisher if you get her Legendary

[plain fossil]

Thats pretty impressive because chronos resets scorch

[foggy plover]

yea but i actually feel like her legendary and fire extinguisher arent meant to go together.

[plain fossil]

I was just messing about with scorch on chronos as well it really is horrendous without air quality or fire extinguisher lmao

[foggy plover]

exponential growth
all i had to do was stack up a bit of scorch as a base, and then proceed to freeze him whenever possible, with each freeze doubling the scorch he had on him.

[plain fossil]

I shoulda clicked fire extinguisher but i was coping on finding air quality 😦