h2-builds-and-combat

[robust prism]

what. how did you even manage to do that

[hollow stag]

How will born gain be nerfed?

Will its penalty be more severe, such as Prime 40 Magick at Common?

[versed flicker]

do what

[tired fulcrum]

Born gain is literally the best gain boon unless you have the most inefficient build in existence

[zenith bolt]

• they're like zombies n such anyway so not a big deal. barrel guys are cringe but not impossible to deal with

[sour cape]

Welp tbf, Poly already ate a nerf

[robust prism]

run out of magic

[versed flicker]

my combo was just regular cast then two omega specials since I had to wait for solar ring to run out

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1248927407264628816/image.png?ex=666571c9&is=66642049&hm=3b969b903382714316d0f995d8112e44411711019ba686975299b1931d05c25c& I'm hard carried by this boon jfc

[versed flicker]

and just spam that forever

[tired fulcrum]

Wait how do you run out on charon

[steel sequoia]

hera is good overall but born gain make all other gains looks bad

[versed flicker]

the special is expensive idk

[robust prism]

135 max magic even with a level 1 common born gain is already like having almost 1000 max magic

[steel sequoia]

and some are really bad but no tall

[sour cape]

Charon does use a lot of mana tbf

[tired fulcrum]

The special also does fat damage

[robust prism]

how much was the special again? 25 or 30?

[sour cape]

Usually your cast will be doing more than special

[magic moss]

30

[sour cape]

Special is 30 now

[robust prism]

so they must have used the special 32 times??

[zenith bolt]

https://i.imgur.com/ZIfjpkb.png im not sure how you're spending this much magick in a room and not clearing it

[tired fulcrum]

Ig if you dont get any boosts like glorious disaster then it might be rough

And have a common born gain

[sour cape]

Nah shouldnt be using thaaat much mana

[tame spindle]

ionic boon + spirit surge + a sprint boon with an attack/special based build woohooo

[versed flicker]

born gain was only common and upgraded a bit so priming 7 every time

[robust prism]

yeah that's what I calculated with triangle number formula as well

[versed flicker]

but its very possible lmao

[wild pine]

Ionic Gain should either reduce by X% after all other primes, not before, or not modify your magic bar at all. It could instead provide mana regen that only activates when your mana bar is mostly empty, or it continuous but scales with % missing mana.

[robust prism]

???? that makes it even weirder

[versed flicker]

idk what I could have possibly done then, just use one special per solar ring?

[magic moss]

did you have like aphro special and never get in range?

[robust prism]

yes? that's generally how you play Charon

[tired fulcrum]

You had to have had like no damage or something or have missed everything

[tame spindle]

there are some hammers that make the special a lot more expensive arent there

[zenith bolt]

135 max magick, 7 primed each refill = https://i.imgur.com/0YKBDcC.png

[robust prism]

you must have used like 45 specials in order to run out of magic then

[magic moss]

theres the double special for 40 extra iirc

[tired fulcrum]

The one that does also makes it hit twice

[sour cape]

Theres one that adds 15 mana so 45

[versed flicker]

can I find my stats from a past run somehow, maybe I was doing something wrong with my build

[sour cape]

but then it fires twice

[hollow stag]

I tried out the Charon axe and Apollo Cast.

I could fire off 2 Omega Special by the time 1 Apollo Cast ended.

Apollo Cast isn’t great if you rely on Omega Special for damage.

[sudden coyote]

How good is the artificer arcana card?

[magic moss]

actually lets start clarifying some things so yeah. What boobs did you have, what vows enabled, which arcana cards enabled?

[robust prism]

if m is max magic and p is magic primed ber born gain use then you can use m^2/(2p) + m/2 so you don't have to type this in every time lmao

[zenith bolt]

like even assuming the worst possible case scenario where you have exceptional talent and the double omega special hammer, you're still using omega special 19 times before running out of magick

[sour cape]

Tbf there are people who say they prefer Demeter Gain over Born Gain 💀

[robust prism]

what

[sour cape]

Since Born Gain is not infinite mana

[tired fulcrum]

Its also effectively more since born gain doesnt overflow mana cost from the attack that procced it

[zenith bolt]

lol

[robust prism]

they need to learn how to do math lmao

[hollow stag]

You don’t need both apollo exceptional and hammer that doubles omega special, do you?

[zenith bolt]

assuming the worst possible case scenario

[tame spindle]

maybe there was like a sprint that used mana?

[sour cape]

They also hate Hestia gain too for costing hp 😭

[versed flicker]

no vows, but maybe its just cause it was a level one aspect of charon

[bleak night]

I've been trying to find Advancing Whirlwind + Apollo Legendary for a while now

[robust prism]

I can understand that concern a little bit more at least

[versed flicker]

oh damn I did have zeus sprint cause I was hunting for the duo boon with apollo

[magic moss]

im ngl imo solar ring without glorious disaster is a bait

[bleak night]

I just want my meme run to come true

[zenith bolt]

honestly doesn't sound too terrible given you'd still be able to benefit from lucid gain

[sour cape]

How so?

[tame spindle]

ok thats it then

sprint + hera gain doesnt rly go tgt well u burn a lot of mana really quickly

[magic moss]

the dmg from solar ring that can be dodged by every guardian is far too little to justify losing repositioning the cast and doing more dmg

because solar ring does around the same dmg as an omega cast, so without glorious you’re just losing out on dmg

[sour cape]

Hmmm I wouldnt agree with that except for like Hecate or Poly

And Solar Ring lets you do dmg with less commitment than 2 casts

since you only need 1 special rather than 2

[bleak night]

OKAY I GOT ADVANCING WHIRLWIND + APOLLO LEGENDARY LFG

[sudden coyote]

I think the friction from the cards is good because you can’t have everything you want.

[sour cape]

I do agree Solar rings not the best for room clearing fast

[tame spindle]

ru recording

[sour cape]

Where youd just eant the extra coverage

[magic moss]

i will preface and say i am a huge range cast enthusiast so i will always prefer being able to reposition casts

[spare kite]

I'm being crazy or does changing vows change your rng (for selene at least)

[tame spindle]

if ur not, can u start recording

[bleak night]

It's a meme run

[tame spindle]

i want to see the meme 😭😭😭

[bleak night]

like 10 fear, is that alr ?

[cursive oyster]

ik changing arcana does so maybe?

[magic moss]

some vows yes like onion

[tired fulcrum]

Makes it easier to get supernova tho

[spare kite]

Sgg why are you like this

[bleak night]

I can record the entirety of Tartarus or the Chronos fight sure

[sour cape]

Yea supernova makes the not repositioning more managemable

[spare kite]

I wanted phase shift but realized I left panic on
Turned it off and now dark side is in my face

[robust prism]

it does, changing arcanas does as well I believe

[spare kite]

Gonna take the boring moon water ig

[tame spindle]

selene is random every time

[robust prism]

no I think the seed also affects her in a weird way

[tame spindle]

its so weird with everything else boons and all its the same with seed but selene randomises when u accept it ig

[magic moss]

im ngl i lost all motivation to do 32 runs now considering its not even going to get saved xdd

[tame spindle]

also changing stuff in crossroads changes stuff in the seed anyways (presumably, ive heard this but not really seen it myself)

[robust prism]

I think I had a run with selene start where I restarted a bunch of times and she kinda went back and forth between 2 different states

[magic moss]

might just grind out golden apples

i have like 50 z-dust

[tame spindle]

okay so she just does whatever she wants to do then i guess

[robust prism]

by "state" I mean the same three options in the same order

[spare kite]

Random question but what's better
First born gain pom or first +30 mana (titan on)

[magic moss]

born gain pom 100%

[steel sequoia]

i might try a 32f later when i have time, need to close the underground, than ill play no fear to have some actually fun

[robust prism]

probably mana

wait how much do you start with at titan?

[low copper]

Wolf Howl is kind of OP with the 1 second invincible upgrade, I had a run where I had the Dagger hammer that made it cost 30 mana, enough path of stars to drop the Hex to 30 mana... 100% invincible

[robust prism]

and is the born gain common

[spare kite]

90, epic gain

[robust prism]

oh

[magic moss]

yeah pom gives you more effective mana

6->4 at 90 saved 2 every gain proc so like net 45 more mana

[robust prism]

yeah max mana does way more actually

I think first born gain pom at epic just goes from 6 to 5 if I'm not mistaken

[spare kite]

6 to 4

[robust prism]

but honestly neither of those really matter anymore at that point

[magic moss]

you’ll be getting max mana anyways as the run goes on so gain scales better

[robust prism]

max mana still better

[magic moss]

but with a 6 prime gain at >100 mana it does not matter lmfao

[robust prism]

1260 vs 1057

[magic moss]

bro pulled out the calculstor i concede go max mana

[spare kite]

I already took the pom ages ago anyway lmfao

[robust prism]

lmao I actually did that in my head but yeah it really doesn't matter anyways you're never realistically gonna run out of mana

[steel sequoia]

i just put pom in BG if i dont wanna waste a reroll tbh

i mean if you get primed u prolly lost on timer anyways

[timber pawn]

I mean the thing about born gain is rate that you can use mana at, its just 'faster' than every other gain

[magic moss]

born gain is far superior than any other gain because its essentially not a mana regen boon, it multiplies your current mana pool by like a factor of 10

[tame spindle]

i feel like born gain should also take a portion of ur mana like how zeus' does on top of what happens in the encounter

[magic moss]

with other gains you need to fulfill a condition like standing still for demeter or getting hit for heph

born gain has no condition, its just heres more mana

[robust prism]

it's m^2/(2p) + m/2

[tame spindle]

there technically is a condition its just so mild that its never an issue

or maybe born gain makes ur omegas cost more mana? idek

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1249059799518154835/image.png?ex=6665ed16&is=66649b96&hm=88b101895fc133a0ebfc13f2a74194176d862216c1d4cde9152f04b697cc620d& ik grit is the sane option but rank 4 embryo sounds funny

[robust prism]

the annoying thing is if you currently have embyro on it won't actually affect it

[spare kite]

I had pos keepsake

but also time to leave oceanus on 1 hp cuz I took maimed lmfao

[random rover]

Hey, on the Dark Side Path of Stars, when it says +20% damage or +10% to Guardians, is that global? Does anyone know off the top of their head?

[spare kite]

if it doesn't specify the dmg source is global (aka deal more dmg/enemy takes more dmg)

[robust prism]

I don't remember the exact wording

but I always wondered why tf the bonus against guardians is lower than the bonus against everyone??

like doesn't the +20% damage also affect guardians

[tired fulcrum]

Tbh some tooltips are wrong like strength iirc and golden rule

[random rover]

I was literally writing feedback about that earlier.

[spare kite]

wait what's wrong with strength

[tired fulcrum]

Like strength only affects attack/special/cast or something

And not flat damage

[magic moss]

the condition doesnt exist because of how it works. If you use more mana than what you currently have, it primes some and fully recharges. You essentially have multiple mana pools with no cost or condition. For example, if you have 10 mana left out of 100 total and you use a staff omega attack for example, you effectively have always had 190 max mana and 100 mana at the moment instead of having to meet condition for a different gain

[spare kite]

lmfao

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1249061017896488960/image.png?ex=6665ee39&is=66649cb9&hm=eade348f54a39037bcc2bcf9ffdeed3437aa1de3acda36f3ab9bf05bb32d4add& carried by greater evasion and messenger

[random rover]

Now I'm wondering if I can get an Local Climate + Storm Ring + Blitz attack + Fully developed Dark Side build going.

If all those damage bonuses apply globally, that could be something.

[magic moss]

the condition for born gain just does not exist, and due to this fact as long as you arent stupid with your mana usage it is just a tier above every gain boon without question

[tame spindle]

well there is a condition its just not a precondition that u have to fulfill its a condition that affects u after the fact

[magic moss]

yeah sorry precondition thats a better word

[tame spindle]

so yeah if born gain raised ur overall mana cost or halved ur mana bar or something else to make that existing precondition more likely to be filled it would be much more balanced

[magic moss]

i think a reasonable born gain nerf would be instead of priming your mana the condition actually increases the cost of your omegas

[robust prism]

still pretty much just kind of a boring increase in max magic

[steel sequoia]

i think born gain will be rebalanced to something like fixed gain where you gain an ammount

[robust prism]

I think I'm leaning towards the idea of the priming being permanent

[tame spindle]

priming being permanent would make the boon go from best to worst instantly

[steel sequoia]

or they could murder it like ionic gain or something

[magic moss]

then unless the priming is incredibly small its kinda bad

[robust prism]

nah not really

[bleak night]

I think I just found the height of the Axe's power with this meme run, like no joke

[pale vortex]

Now that momus with wave flourish is not so popular, which other builds are good? I find moonstone axe with Apolo and mel staff with poseidon attack fun

[robust prism]

you just have to be more aware of how often you run out of magic

[tame spindle]

a lot of reworks can very easily change hera regain from overpowred to borderline unusable

[robust prism]

like with an average amount of max magic and an average build you're probably not gonna run out of magic more than once per room

[steel sequoia]

permanent prime is killing it ngl https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684945888585842701/1248042485448446065/20240531192625_1.jpg?ex=66658564&is=666433e4&hm=9058f52c57cecdf86719a30b9423dfbce370f636072822af59188f911944f9e5&

[robust prism]

so let's say it primes like 5

you can easily make up for that by just getting more max magic again

[steel sequoia]

bro if prime more than 2 i think its dead boon

[tame spindle]

yeah and then nobody will take it because its still easier to just take hestia or aphrodite or apollo

[tame spindle]

thats a stretch

[robust prism]

absolutely not

[magic moss]

Charon with glorious disaster, Pan poseidon, Medea Hera, Persephone glorious, Aphro Mel torch, lots of other good builds

[robust prism]

you're really overestimating how often you would actually use it

[bleak night]

I am literally playing Guan Yu on crack wtf https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1249062475039637748/image.png?ex=6665ef94&is=66649e14&hm=f96e0ae556131773656bde63de4a5bc8b6ac03dca72f282b4f4f4bfeac33e003&

[robust prism]

unless you're running panic lol then you're just screwed

[tame spindle]

😭😭😭😭

[random rover]

If the prime isn't permanent, but resets after each biome, then that might be a workable middle ground.

[pale vortex]

Oh I see I think aphro torches is a bit hard and if you run out of magick then gg haha!I can try the other too

[spare kite]

Martial art sneak

[tame spindle]

is that on than?

[steel sequoia]

what is persephone glorious? same as charon?

[robust prism]

not really, again it doesn't actually trigger all that often unless you either have no max magic or are spamming omega moves like a maniac

[magic moss]

oh the entire point is just spam onega special with aphro special and just lawnmower

[tame spindle]

thats fair. anyhow all of this could go in #h2-feedback

[bleak night]

Yeah, hold on I'll post in a bit

[pale vortex]

Haha yeah i may give it another try! I can understand the persephone one tho..

[magic moss]

yeah i think thats the build, you would have to ask east for persephone since hes far more experienced on the aspect

thats just what i got from reading in on the persephone discussions

[steel sequoia]

i like downpour better for persephone since its more spammable and you get dem sup

[robust prism]

I think you could very well gain more max magic through upgrades than you're actually priming

[steel sequoia]

but its good too

[swift mesa]

Were in the money! image

[spare kite]

why are golden rule requisites so bad

[tame spindle]

wdym?

[bleak night]

ah, file size too big to upload to Discord. Let me put it through a compressor

[tame spindle]

u could upload it on youtube and send the link

[bleak night]

it's alright, only 120 bigger than the capacity, shouldn't take long. Also so I can spam it somewhere else

[tame spindle]

that method is also better for uploading actual runs to websites and for linking it whenever since its hosted on google instead of discord or whatever website ur uploading it to

[bleak night]

fair, I'll put it on Streamable

nvm streamable became premium now, sad

[somber cobalt]

Does vow of forsaking improve chances of legendary/duo boons?

[bleak night]

It just got nerfed to not do so

[somber cobalt]

Aw man😞

[tired fulcrum]

It still overall helps with getting them

[bleak night]

Hades II Guan Yu run coming up 👀

[tame spindle]

what did guan yu do again i dont even remember

[silent crow]

wtf

[inner ivy]

I just had a sub9 run on surface, even though i had a bad start :')

[bleak night]

the hidden aspect Spear that had a spin attack that became a projectile

[robust prism]

you could throw out the lance spin as a projectile and it gave you some lifesteal

[tame spindle]

ohhh

[tired fulcrum]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/gdzyNOwyP1JQEL8ceK-tFNdxcf26hjhKqdxHSbxgb9s/https/i.imgur.com/ih4pGO1.mp4 it speen

[robust prism]

but it also reduced your max hp by like a lot

[tame spindle]

i actually havent done h1 in so long

[silent crow]

was guan yu spin even a good build

[robust prism]

I never liked it personally

[tired fulcrum]

I mean athena speen guan yu has done modded 64

[silent crow]

really

[tired fulcrum]

Lemme find le vid

[tame spindle]

i tried it a few times and it was great the regen means the hp reduction isnt that bad esp if u just dont get hit by dumb things

[tired fulcrum]

https://youtu.be/pvH93Mfp450

[robust prism]

"modded" is such a vague category like what mods does it actually include?

could you just download an invincibility mod and call it a world record lmao

[tired fulcrum]

The speedrun mod pack makes it so that your first boon has all 4 cores, your first hammer is of your choice and you dont get 5 sacked

[robust prism]

ah I see

[tired fulcrum]

And some other things, its a specific category

[robust prism]

that makes more sense

[spare kite]

zeuwus

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1249066951305859194/GUAN_YU_HELLO.mp4?ex=6665f3bf&is=6664a23f&hm=1392938901b7d2ab12ca153ce54b358eb86c3003ac9b4d6b4ed4efa281db060f&

@tired fulcrum Guan Yu is back

[silent crow]

what

[spare kite]

didn't say it in discussion but that dmg is disgusting

[golden isle]

Torches are a lot better than before but I still don't like them. What build would you recommend for 24 heat?

[pulsar canopy]

advice for 32 fear?

[bleak night]

depends on your weapon and fear setup

[pulsar canopy]

the only thing i think i have a chance with is moros

i take a lot of damage and it just wrecks me

[tame spindle]

it just removes rng

[magic moss]

moros is probably not the best option if taking dmg is the main difficulty especially considering 32 means everyone moves and hits harder and faster and you’re going to be dive bombing in

[bleak night]

Ah, idk how to play Torches well so I can't really give tips

[inner ivy]

learn fury 2 if you havent (40% speed), and 7:00 or lower

[magic moss]

You definitely still can play it, but im on phone so cant rly type that fast for stuff

[pulsar canopy]

Okay that makes sense that moros is messing with me

Maybe like, the staff? I think it’s the most ranged option

[inner ivy]

skulls work too if you like ranged

[bleak night]

the most ranged option is the Charon Axe, oddly enough. The entire playstyle is artillery based

[magic moss]

You can try charon axe with glorious disaster, good ranged option with high dmg and safety

Melinoe skull is also a solid option

[tame spindle]

@bleak night whats ur overall favourite axe build?

[inner ivy]

wdyt of the janky block during the ohm special

[pulsar canopy]

Skull is so hard for me

[magic moss]

Now? Probably Guan Yu

[bleak night]

Like, meme or an actual run ?

[bleak night]

I wish the endlag wasn't so terrible for melee builds

[magic moss]

Thats perfectly fine. Try out Pan blades with Poseidon special or Charon with glorious disaster, those are the farthest range options with high aoe

[pulsar canopy]

Thxxxx

[magic moss]

I will give the same warning I did earlier for 32F

[inner ivy]

wdym, recovery?

[magic moss]

WARNING. VOW OF BLOOD AND SUFFERING ARE FINE INDIVIDUALLY, DO NOT TAKE BOTH FOR 32, YOU WILL DIE

[bleak night]

Look at how quickly I can act after shielding on the previous patch https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1249070893401899170/Dash_Shield-Strike.mp4?ex=6665f76b&is=6664a5eb&hm=051ce081007663330062cb3dd1c88b308d2724938d8428e2181c34cfc884ccc6&

try that now and you'll notice that there's immobility frames after you tap the shield

it doesn't flow as well anymore

In terms of the Omega Special itself though, it's alright. The fact that it lingers gives you extra protection, and once it stops lingering you can start dashing away to reposition

[tame spindle]

hm what are they for both?

[bleak night]

for meme runs, it's the forgotten drill build (shield change gutted it). For an actual run, Earthstacking on Mel/Than, Apollo Special and Dem Cast on Charon

[pine patio]

LOL. It really is the return of Guan Yu

[steel sequoia]

i like to play hestia for meme runs since i dont play it so much

[bleak night]

Wish it healed

[pine patio]

Not that you seemed to need healing this time

[bleak night]

That's fair enough, yeah. I didn't get hit that run

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1249069224823885845/image.png?ex=6665f5dd&is=6664a45d&hm=b3e94810dafac84b0b4f2dc529a6a0bdc2134c4ce9a1d984cf7cb58a461717f5&

[tame spindle]

hits on ur armor wont count toward damage suffered will it?

[steel sequoia]

does it count if you get hit on armor or not?

or just life hit counts?

[bleak night]

dunno, I had Mint Condition from enc 1

Lovers helped me tank boss hits

[steel sequoia]

i really wanna make demapo duo meme some time and make like 1k life

but i think i need double up for that

[bleak night]

sounds doable, at least

Life Affirmation early on + Forage, take the shovel

[tame spindle]

ah yeah fair. ive had some runs like that too where i piled armor from erebus and then took like no damage at the end

[bleak night]

it feels great when you've stacked armour for the final fight

[magic moss]

aphro start, fish for the bonus health gain

[lost shell]

Gods, i miss Hades 1 combined boons

[magic moss]

iirc east has a build like this

[tame spindle]

yeah i had 0 healing and my health was like 2/30 so i had both white antler and strength active underneath 200 hp of armor 🤩🤩🤩

[tame spindle]

yeah he does theres a vod of it somewhere here

[steel sequoia]

tbh i think they will rework some duos, there is at least 3 that are horrible

[lost shell]

i think they are very lacklusting

[bleak night]

I never have enough space for Strength. How do you make space for it

[steel sequoia]

some of them are op and makes sense but some of them are just straight bad

[lost shell]

most of the time u dont need them. for hestia, poseidon for example

[stone fog]

3 heart throbs and aphro multiplier at all distances is funny

[tame spindle]

i didnt have the boatman square or any healing stuff so it wasn't really an issue

ive since tuned it out though yeah its hard to make space for it

[bleak night]

Oh, I see.

[lost shell]

also, i think ares is missing rn. for more vengeance themed builds. athena maybe wont appear as a boon

[tame spindle]

athena and ares probably will show up later (hopefully)

[bleak night]

either Ares or Dio would make sense, yeah, since we're missing a God that's got a Water infusion

[magic moss]

ares is born as zeus and athena needs a full rework prob cuz that dash is uh hm

[bleak night]

blood and wine fit the bill

[magic moss]

poseidon bonus health

[tame spindle]

pretty sure they said dio is deeply depressed

[bleak night]

There's just one compared to the others having 2 (Earth has 3)

so Water as an element kinda lacks the oomph

[lost shell]

wdym born as zeus?

[tame spindle]

athena and ares are coordinating the war effort but dio is just moping around somewhere

[magic moss]

just pointing it since you said there was no god

[bleak night]

I said missing

[tame spindle]

i mean theres no expectation for their boons from h1 to carry over to h2

[bleak night]

We're definitely missing more water infusions, no matter how you look at it

[magic moss]

ares’s dmg after a set period of time and zeus is dmg after a set amount of dmg

[lost shell]

oh i see the resemblance but ares didnt need X dmg to proc, so i can see them making something similar to H1, but also different

[steel sequoia]

i miss uncle dio

[tame spindle]

yeah i think blitz is a better(?) doom

and scorch is a worse hangover

[spare kite]

At least hangover actually scaled with poms

[tired fulcrum]

Depends on if you have damage to proc it or not

[lost shell]

i think doom was better bc there were boons that made it better, like aphro combined one

[magic moss]

dude dio cast was so fun and broken as hell

[polar copper]

Scorch is pretty good though?

It just doesn't lend itself to speedrun style of play

[tired fulcrum]

Like with stuff like medea or moros special blitz is pretty great

[lost shell]

scorch is good if u get air quality, otherwise... its just ok

[magic moss]

its not that good for high fears, its just too slow or requires a god run

[magic moss]

its just rough like what can we even do with water infusions

[spare kite]

Even for casual I don't wanna see the bar ticking down that slow

[tired fulcrum]

The special applies less scorch stacks than the amount of damage poseidon splash does instantly

[steel sequoia]

would be nice to have a thrown cast that had a permanent effect like apollo

[tame spindle]

blitz has lots of good duo boons too though

like demeter's that triggers everyone who has blitz or hephaestus who affects ur chain lightning n stuff

[bleak night]

I never tried that Zeus-Heph one

[steel sequoia]

the only zeus problem is ionic gain, when they fix it zeus will be busted

[lost shell]

i think the game needs a red boon. thats it, colorwise i miss ares.

[polar copper]

I mean, yeah, it's gonna struggle into foe speed up fear, true

I personally like the fire and forget playstyle it allows for

Go fight one group, stack some scorch, run away and fight another group, repeat

Go back, and look here, they're mostly dead already!

[bleak night]

it was offered to me on a high fear run, and I didn't know if it was any good, so I skipped over it

[tired fulcrum]

it eats your acorn charges cuz the lightning bounces to you

[spare kite]

Zeus heph is funny
Cuz it steals your lovers charges

[tame spindle]

also i like zeus' more because theres a much more reliable dps since doom requires u to wait for it to trigger unless u have the athena ares duo

[bleak night]

...

[magic moss]

the main issue with scorch is that the numbers are just too small, the scorch special applies 30 her hit and thats like nothing

[tame spindle]

yeah it feels too slow

[bleak night]

man, I really wanna play Scorch Axe since the visuals look so good

[steel sequoia]

scorch should at least melt armor quick

[bleak night]

It's just so incompatible it's kinda insane

[stone fog]

Blitz would be better imo if it was something like deals x damage when the curse ends, but echos y% of the damage you dealt to the target during that time, with y>100 hopefully

[spare kite]

Hestia has the 2nd coolest colors tbh

[lost shell]

scorch is only good with air quality. sometimes with poseidon duo

[polar copper]

I dunno, I enjoyed solid runs with dagger and staff

It could probably be tuned up to not be categorically weaker than other options

[magic moss]

dude charon hestia goes so hard its amazing

[tame spindle]

on the one hand if they made the numbers higher it could be really op since it can passively be applied with casts from a distance at almost no risk to you

[bleak night]

which do you find the most visually appealing ?

[spare kite]

Hera

[lost shell]

bring back REAL red. bring back ares!!!

[tame spindle]

but on the other it feels wayyy too small rn

[bleak night]

Oh, the Omega Special has sfx ?

[limpid coral]

has anyone else seen the bag in tartarus have its beam turn instantly and lock on you after it dies

[knotty fulcrum]

isn’t it ok with fire estinguisher

[bleak night]

I know Hera looks great on weapon trails since there are peacock feathers and all, but I'm so used to it that I don't notice it anymore lol

oops wrong reply

[lost shell]

not that much tbh

[bleak night]

meant to reply to this

[magic moss]

i dont think it does but the visuals look so amazing with all the fire

[tired fulcrum]

Fire extinguisher makes you do less total damage than poseidon splash

[spare kite]

Never noticed that, I just think colors pretty lmao

[bleak night]

Oooh. Maybe I should

[tame spindle]

i like aphrodite's cast and dash so much its like yes!!!! cute little hearts!!!!!

[bleak night]

Try it out. There are Peacock feathers in the trail

[magic moss]

like objectively its probably the worst build for charon, but visuals make up for it

[knotty fulcrum]

really? even you aplly it really fast?

[lost shell]

aphro in h2 is much better than h1, for real

visually and mechanically

[magic moss]

hestia atk special and cast with her ranged cast and just watch as you rain helllfire on everyone and deal -3 dmg

[tame spindle]

well hera on attack is pretty universally great for axe builds

[bleak night]

Aphro not having Weak on attack feels weird, but I suppose they tried to balance it

[magic moss]

im talking full hestia not hera

[spare kite]

Visual yeah but mechanically it just feels the same
(Except aphrodite dash cuz that one's goated)

[tired fulcrum]

Scorch special applies less stacks of scorch than poseidon does damage, scorch attack is only 5-6 more stacks of scorch than splash damage at the same rarity/pom level, fire extinguisher reduces your damage by 50-70% so yes, its worse

[knotty fulcrum]

before patch i was running scorch on mel torches sometimes. but special was still doing a bit more damage than scorch+estinguisher but if you get everything from the beginning maybe its comparable

[lost shell]

So, how would you guys suggest Ares, Dio and Athena boons for Hades 2?

[tame spindle]

well linking hitch to scorch activating origination and also helping to clear things much faster since theyre all applying extra damage to each other is pretty good

idk im mainly looking out for hera or demeter for origination on axes though

[knotty fulcrum]

i mean it can be even more de 100% i think and you can aplly it with cast too but I am not trying to say that hestia>poseidon or anything

[steel sequoia]

i dont think they will bring the 3, imo they will cut athena

[tired fulcrum]

That requires a lot of poms and high base rarity

[lost shell]

Yeah, but how about the others? Imo Ares will be centered around vengeance, mostly combining him with heph, zeus or even hera

[limpid coral]

damn air quality with cyclone sprint and cast goes hard

[magic moss]

idgaf about no cards or builds hestia atk on axe looks crispy clean and awesome as hell and thats all i care for screw hera

[tame spindle]

HAHAHA okay fair enough then

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1249078583662743673/image.png?ex=6665fe95&is=6664ad15&hm=717db00bb4744a350aee66c9b4562b30d4959f6f56ae03c2ef590d8b9ed35130& when 11 earth but no heph infusion

[limpid coral]

sprint build
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1065806217362014258/1249078799946219520/image.png?ex=6665fec8&is=6664ad48&hm=6ca18ccba6191bf1bef2cc12492bb899a381ce6bdab4b36a1c7106f7677360f9&

[knotty fulcrum]

anyone tried to do a dem cast build? like arctic ring + gale force

was wondering if the damage can get good

[bleak night]

It's mostly really only good for Origination, popping blue hearts and freezing/slowing

I don't really expect it to do damage, but I expect it to do everything else that I need, which is neat

[limpid coral]

it can be good with air quality lol storm ring feels better to use just for damage?

[tired fulcrum]

Only if you have air quality

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1249079698441506956/image.png?ex=6665ff9e&is=6664ae1e&hm=85bc69f5b5386d67b2a342e7c6ff4792b060dd6a93896e65174336d9ca79141c& lmao, infinite iframes

[knotty fulcrum]

doesn’t the cast already do almost 30 damage? for gale force I do see it tho

[tired fulcrum]

Innit like 10 base

[limpid coral]

cast does 10 base cyclone does like 4 base?

[steel sequoia]

its that an addon to show dmg?

[knotty fulcrum]

what I thought it was like 20+ for epic

[tired fulcrum]

Well ig with rarity/poms/furies/origination it would do 30+

[knotty fulcrum]

I guess Im way off

[tired fulcrum]

Mod

[knotty fulcrum]

speaking of mods is there a mod that allows you to give yourself boons?

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1249080239859171429/image.png?ex=6666001f&is=6664ae9f&hm=495a05dbd630a4ad60613655256e07fdc1e1285c879c8a7379f84b9a005d4bca& I think dad is gunna be mad

[tame spindle]

usually i dont use them together, just one of those to apply freeze along with another cast from a different god

[steel sequoia]

i wish theres a mod to track forsaken

[bleak night]

there is

https://thunderstore.io/c/hades-ii/p/Jowday/BoonBuddy/

[knotty fulcrum]

in a cast build yeah but in a normal run arctic ring si good enough for me. what do you use?

[bleak night]

additionally, just use the PencilMeta app ig

[steel sequoia]

damn requires 4 stuff to run, im not that tryhard im just casual

[tame spindle]

in normal runs ive liked arctic ring + hera attack on axe, u get origination and also freeze is soooo useful

[knotty fulcrum]

oh yeah so now that forsaking doesnt help you get dous/legendary its not worth taking in no fear runs right?

[bleak night]

there's an app that helps you track, at least. I have it open on my phone

[bleak night]

I think it's good to take to filter out elements for Earthstacking

[spare kite]

Easier to hit infusions if you want that

[magic moss]

nope

[bleak night]

I easily get Earth boons I want from both Dem and Heph now

[magic moss]

but like for no fear runs it rly does not matter

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah but it can also hurt if you dont have enough rerolls

[spare kite]

But I think I'm at least gonna drop it for casuals tbh cuz I miss some pos/hera supports lol

[steel sequoia]

forsaken is for high fear now

[silent crow]

i got so cucked this run

[tame spindle]

oh word i havent really tried much infusion boons, other than demeter's or zeus' which ones stand out?

[knotty fulcrum]

eh still easy fear just annoying sometimes

[tired fulcrum]

Wdym, its still basically free and often helpful

[magic moss]

none im ngl also demeter has an infusion?

[steel sequoia]

yeah no point picking it in low fear tho, like if you running 5-10 fear theres other stuff to get

[tame spindle]

demeters is the 15 damage every hit yeah?

[knotty fulcrum]

yep

[magic moss]

right

[spare kite]

Yeah, max dmg taken = 15

[knotty fulcrum]

the best in the game

[steel sequoia]

does it increases with AQ?

[spare kite]

Different stuff

[tired fulcrum]

Why would aq increase damage taken

[spare kite]

AQ is min dmg dealt

[tame spindle]

zeus' infusion boon where u do 30 min damage is insane with like demeter cyclones and apollo cast

u just melt everything

[knotty fulcrum]

is apollo’s cast under 30?

[magic moss]

yes

so aq apollo can be good, but far harder to hit than glorious disaster

[silent crow]

this is my entire build after cerberushttps://media.discordapp.net/attachments/965250748797567046/1249081994764222624/image.png?ex=666601c2&is=6664b042&hm=798d818c29192dd72f589515d55a8c0f126446f0b71666651521330191b0b622&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=756&height=473

no hammers, no origination, no echo 🫠

[bleak night]

without poms, yeah

[steel sequoia]

looks regular for 32F

[tired fulcrum]

Did you take onion lol

[tame spindle]

its like 10 damage every 0.13 seconds for 3 seconds which becomes crazy when u scale up to 30

[silent crow]

NO IDK WHY THIS HAPPENS

[bleak night]

Nice Swift Strike

seems winnable to me

[silent crow]

thank u i rarified it myself :3

[steel sequoia]

i got some runs like that, too much ash rooms

[bleak night]

wait, you can rarify Hermes boons ?

[silent crow]

with the fountain keepsake

[bleak night]

Oh, is your Phial not rank 3 yet ?

[steel sequoia]

didnt you know that? i use the fountain keepsake for that all the time

[bleak night]

I knew, I was just so used to Heroic being the result of Phial

I thought it was manually rarified

[steel sequoia]

oh allright

i think rare crop also hit it sometimes

[silent crow]

naur

this is the run i got rank 3

[bleak night]

rank 2's already good at least

[silent crow]

hmmmhttps://media.discordapp.net/attachments/965250748797567046/1249082879678349383/image.png?ex=66660295&is=6664b115&hm=0926f455586875e5ccf517718b00ebec1575a35080fed8bd92e190a24b60a8dd&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=756&height=473

[bleak night]

Does Rare Crop that gets upgraded by Phial start choosing more boons to turn Common or nah

[knotty fulcrum]

i mean its not that good of a keepsake one of my last too

well not that its bad just situational

[bleak night]

Phial is god tier for higher fear imo

[tame spindle]

i dont think so??? it only works once right and then doesnt trigger again?

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah i see that but maybe just rarify and get another god idk

[bleak night]

I suppose, yeah

[tame spindle]

try it out tho it could easily be bugged

[bleak night]

Sometimes I find a boon that's just so good, but it's common, so I bust that out and it usually helps me win easily

this was my 48 fear run (I didn't record sadly) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1248112309096812604/image.png?ex=6665c66b&is=666474eb&hm=ce0176fb5cb148a869aa427f8b7287ef2fc0951d61220d1395a36ec16ff06114&

[knotty fulcrum]

one use for it is maybe seeing what god is at the start and starting with it if its a god you like

[bleak night]

tbh I only run Phial if I have a common that I'd really love to turn into a Heroic

otherwise it's meh with Scars

I do think it's good to have levelled in such situations

[silent crow]

i could gamble for origination https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/965250748797567046/1249083736574656563/image.png?ex=66660361&is=6664b1e1&hm=4798f6ba0e8dd12ffb2881a33460c170c6ecbbee3a3a88b21251c21c1209432f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=756&height=473

[bleak night]

with Daze ?

tbh yeah you could use Passion Dash lol

[silent crow]

i didnt get it

[knotty fulcrum]

how does dase work?

[bleak night]

sad

[knotty fulcrum]

when does it wear off?

[bleak night]

I have no clue how Daze actually works, all I know is it makes enemies miss sometimes

let me check

[magic moss]

Daze is an afflicted status debuff that gives all enemies afflicted by it a 20% chance to miss their attack if hit

[knotty fulcrum]

its wierd cause I had the sprint once and origination was just randomly going on and off

[magic moss]

its essentially a 20% dodge chance from every enemy affected by daze

[bleak night]

the sprint tags enemies you run past with Daze

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah but it was super random

[steel sequoia]

i got a heroic phial once and rare crop murdered it but i had like 3 boons and no other options

[knotty fulcrum]

like it was activating even when I was not going near them

[bleak night]

idk the actual duration of Daze, I stopped using Apollo on Axe for the most part lol

[bleak night]

Rare Crop can choose Heroic boons ?

[steel sequoia]

yes

[bleak night]

unfortunate lol

[magic moss]

rly? even apollo special on charon or is that exception

[steel sequoia]

yeah, if ur using phial might dodge depending on how much boons

[knotty fulcrum]

that doesnt apply daze its only for attacks

[bleak night]

it's the exception for me because it has no Daze on it + I sometimes just use Hera instead

[spare kite]

9s iirc

[steel sequoia]

daze is like 9s aint it?

[bleak night]

because tbh Earthstacking is also god tier on Charon lol

[magic moss]

im talking about not using apollo on axe cuz apollo is like the charon boon

[knotty fulcrum]

it has daze? how?

[bleak night]

mb

[knotty fulcrum]

ok ig I understood wrong

[bleak night]

I forgot to type "no" in there

[magic moss]

all good

[knotty fulcrum]

another question: do you guys ever apply curse effects with the secondary attack( like if you have an attack build do you use the special to apply curse effects)?

[bleak night]

It's good for it, yeah. That or I just put Heph on there

[magic moss]

ok now that actually gives me a question, if you use blitz to activate origination and it procs, does the blitz dmg get increased by originationV

[bleak night]

Iirc it doesn't

[magic moss]

angway to answer your question no not rly its always atk and cast for me

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah thats also what i remember

[wild pine]

daze is 10 million years long (okay, 9 seconds, but that's basically the same thing)

[fervent coyote]

Question- does engraved pin only activate once in an encounter

[tired fulcrum]

https://imgur.com/kow76xF dang, those are some big damage ghosties

[spare kite]

Yeah

[fervent coyote]

Oh ok

[magic moss]

mel with hera duo for 200% dmg?

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1249089656910381168/image.png?ex=666608e5&is=6664b765&hm=1693bbdf0ded27698b13bf7e6fad2b823d6e75dc37b96e2845f813859134845c& one of the things

[magic moss]

is that moros

[tired fulcrum]

mel torches

[steel sequoia]

imagine eos with this build

[magic moss]

wait so you didnt have the hera duo?

cuz thats a lot of dmg for a no boon atk

[steel sequoia]

he literally posted spiteful strenght

imma have some low fear run lets go

[magic moss]

wait then why did he say one of the things im confused xdd

[silent crow]

haveother ppl just been using eos torches as dire candle

[ionic moon]

you should spam your specials while it's out, you don't just charge up another one immediately

[tired fulcrum]

As in one of the boons that was making my damage beeg

[silent crow]

oh never mind i just won i guesshttps://media.discordapp.net/attachments/716773442958917753/1249092809340747786/image.png?ex=66660bd4&is=6664ba54&hm=57d203cc52b33a0a1cc06412ed52f4c8424c81ed9ee79de700dfe18844a90538&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=756&height=473

[magic moss]

ohhhh

[spare kite]

Manifesting chaos chant for you

[silent crow]

i dont even think that works on the eos daybreaker 😭

[spare kite]

Oh yeah

Uh manifesting slow cooker ig

Heph's martial art also sounds funny

[tired fulcrum]

So do omega attack boosts only increase the collision damage

[silent crow]

there we go https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/716773442958917753/1249093800857702482/image.png?ex=66660cc1&is=6664bb41&hm=0864bb95ed19939cd5cc3f20c6752d2eefc7d017f8c664767c7d1983aec806e4&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=756&height=473

[spare kite]

Lmao

[silent crow]

i also got funeral pyre and fire extinguisher so umm ggs

[tired fulcrum]

Huge

Does the bug even work on torches

[silent crow]

i think so

[spare kite]

lmfao, wanted to get golden rule to meme and just realized I didn't swap to pos keepsake by accident, just didn't notice cuz I got him naturally

[spare kite]

iframing the insta kill is so fun

[tight marten]

Charon axe truly is the best axe

[sour cape]

We stan Charon 🙏

[tight marten]

nah for real the demeter + apollo duo with the cast that does more damage the more you use it is busted with charon's aspect

[sour cape]

easy combo

[tight marten]

I removed half of chronos's life with 2 hits, like goddamn

[steel sequoia]

i had 2 horrible runs and than i get thanos with aphro and this is the first hammer... came on im not having fun like this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684945888585842701/1249108815442481152/20240608181146_1.jpg?ex=66661abc&is=6664c93c&hm=3fb330ff21c616056997ddb143b51ee914cb4759922516362a5f46424a8208fb&

[tired fulcrum]

#h2-feedback message wait this plus golden rule

[spare kite]

start memeing quick

[grizzled timber]

anyone got any ideas why hestias gain isnt pommable? idk if its a bug or a design decision but feels bad either way

[tulip barn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1230181098793996379/1249113681283776623/image.png?ex=66661f45&is=6664cdc5&hm=b62d80f4ead8e09b628893c4bc3b991d4fe5a5e6b67612f0dbf9b65651ec26db&

First time really committing to new eos. Hera is quite good on it. Tricky aspect for really fast paced fights given the channel requirement being pretty long, but very fun

chain lightning and hitch are pretty nice in tandem

[still girder]

scarlet dress kinda slaps with those two hephaestus boons

[spare kite]

Which one is scarlet again, cast dmg?

[civic ocean]

Yeah scarlet is the smash cast dress

[still girder]

10 armor, double cast damage

really fun, i'm probably gonna lose it at chronos but oh well

[cold night]

quick question, how close do i have to be to activate Aphrodite's close up bonus damage?
For more context i am running Umbral Flames torch and i'm offered to switch Aprrodite special damage bonus to close up enemies +150% dmg -> to Hestia special applies schorch epic 25 burn dmg

[silent crow]

its like the axe's range

[spare kite]

Omega special torch is fine into the range for aphro iirc

[cold night]

hm then i guess i'll stick to Aphrodite, thanks

[steel sequoia]

welp i failed miserably im so unlucky today, gonna try one more fun run https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684945888585842701/1249117095954878829/20240608183907_1.jpg?ex=66662273&is=6664d0f3&hm=a1c762778d81bb0bab9a2c3f761b40eeabb1405e7cd60ab43449a4d09bf86a2d&

[fossil flame]

am I the only one who is getting the impression that the argent skull damage is much higher than other weapons in the early game, but in the late game its damage increases much less?

[tulip barn]

I think it has very good early game

Lategame, depends on a lot of things

Persephone is cracked though

[still girder]

okay okay okay

hitless phase 1, still got 89 armor for phase 2

wish that SG would let you keep the dress color for future runs if you won with it intact

[cinder fog]

https://imgur.com/a/L8Heoum
I feel like solar ring is the most OP thing when you get throwing casts thing. With this setup I don't care at all what weapon do I have. Already cleared up to 12 fear with no problems. Not sure about harder runs, but casual runs is too strong. I can't stop myself from using it

[still girder]

so cloooooooooose

[tired fulcrum]

i love spirit surge aggroing every single enemy in fields

[spare kite]

https://tenor.com/view/borzoigaming-borzoi-borzoi-true-true-borzcord-gif-3111816095909094926

[civic ocean]

solar ring doesn't really run into toooooo many problems until you start turning up the speed+Timer+damage

it's main weakness at high fear is that while the pretty explosions are going off you can't re-summon your cast

It's still super strong, I run it at 32 Fear on Charon

[wild pine]

I miss dire candle, dire candle was dope. New Eos doesn't really do the same thing at all.

[brazen fox]

Anyone have any vows and arcana builds for an easy 20 fear run into Erebus with the new Momus?

[cinder fog]

Ty for explanation. I'll continue to use it, while learning other boon interactions for weapons.

[tulip barn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1230181039196995706/1249121471251353761/image.png?ex=66662686&is=6664d506&hm=09e465379523fda248b08e10fdb834f55c36f3372c74624c70119785284ec238&

Just got this on persephone O_O

Thank you Narcissus

[fossil flame]

the other weapons attack much faster than the argent skull, that's why it has higher base damage, which makes its early game very good

but the other weapons surpass the argent skull base damage in the late game, while the argent skull itself cannot keep up in most runs, keeping the dps low

[tulip barn]

You can build absurd damage on the skull

[fossil flame]

talking about aspect of melinoe btw

[tulip barn]

even on mel

[past salmon]

Mel skulls can have insane damage yeh

[tulip barn]

It actually got me my first chronos kill on my first try with it

[fossil flame]

i will try more runs on it so

[tired fulcrum]

Skull is kinda hammer dependent ig

[civic ocean]

I'm having a hard time following - the skull deals more damage early in the game, and then it does less damage later? The damage values don't change, right?

[tulip barn]

It can be. I think they're talking about how it scales. It scales just fine imo

[past salmon]

Not rlly but it's hammers are really good.
Skull is still very good without hammers I think it is one of the least hammer dependent weapons

[tulip barn]

just takes some getting used to

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah ig medea and persephone dont really need hammers, does mel skull do that good without em

[tulip barn]

I agree with this. Staff, Daggers, and Torches are all very hammer focused. Axe, depends on the aspect. Charon is one of the most flexible aspects in the entire game

[fossil flame]

i was talking about like the enemies on the first areas have less health than the enemies on the last area yk

[past salmon]

Yeh they do fine enough

[tulip barn]

Right, like I said, scaling

[fossil flame]

yes

[crisp moth]

Hammers are crucial for certain builds

[tulip barn]

If you take a good core boon early like Apollo or Demeter and get early poms on it, you'll be pretty set

aphro on the special is also very reliable

[civic ocean]

Yeah like you gotta take the damage scaling no matter what weapon you do

[tulip barn]

You're likely gonna want to get some mana regen on your setup because the omegas on the skull are very strong

Like, clear entire rooms in 2 hits strong

[steel sequoia]

what should i get in this case? spitefull or martial arts? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684945888585842701/1249123234419572827/20240608190932_1.jpg?ex=6666282a&is=6664d6aa&hm=8ac033bfc16df57e581707cf0ee3d0cc686fe43db94634eaae0e4f247d012f26&

martial arts looks crazy with 8 earth

[past salmon]

Ehhhh. You can invest a bit into omega special at low fear.
Even at 32 I just wouldn't bother it's not actually that amazing you can just wipe rooms with Mel skulls attack easy enough.

Omega attack is kinda bad 💀

[tired fulcrum]

40% is not a lot compared to 200%

[steel sequoia]

yeh but buffs special too i have +3 heroic

[tired fulcrum]

Also its "attack and special"

[fair geyser]

200% skyrockets o-attack, especially on momus

[steel sequoia]

oh no omgas right

[tired fulcrum]

Aka not omega special and im assuming ur using omega

[tulip barn]

The omega attack is the part of Revaal that is the most hammer-intensive for a good build I think. Getting the full salvo on your omega attack is very good

[steel sequoia]

yeah im using omegas, thanks

[past salmon]

The problem is how slow it is for how little damage it does

[tulip barn]

I mean, the salvo literally triples the attack

and if you get +2 shells, it goes to 5

but very hammer reliant

[past salmon]

Is salvo still bugged on Mel skulls does anyone know

[tulip barn]

I don't remember what I used last time I got salvo

[steel sequoia]

lmao just go twicked thrasher +30 power with spitefull looks insane

[tulip barn]

i think it was mel tho, I don't remember any issues

[past salmon]

Hmm I should test it ig

[tulip barn]

Mirrored Thrasher duplicates all your momus omega attacks

not the special and cast, just the attack

but it will hit 6 times

I did a 2 second hephaestus attack run with that last night

[past pewter]

medea owns

[carmine lagoon]

how tf do i beat heartache, whenever i channel im a sitting duck for eris melting my hp

[tired fulcrum]

You can still dash while you channel

[tulip barn]

For a lot of attacks, yes. You can dash while channeling staff attack, cast, and a lot of other things. Some attacks will fire off if you're mid-channel like the axe attack or staff special

you just kinda gotta find out which things

[tired fulcrum]

Well theyre talking about torches

[tulip barn]

Gotcha

[tired fulcrum]

Ig i should specify omega attack

[tulip barn]

oh yeah

a big part of learning Ygnium is getting used to holding attack while dashing. Once you know how the movement works, the gameplay feels better

I will say I don't like that eos stops attacking after the omega attack fails to fire when you are out of mana

[tired fulcrum]

take every centaur heart you see and play around the pillars or stand behind eris to avoid damage https://streamable.com/j7n769

[steel sequoia]

nem stole my echo https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684945888585842701/1249133874022318142/20240608195150_1.jpg?ex=66663213&is=6664e093&hm=1322cd99f0a8a701f798d1c7ca00b88f78bf0ae4d45c5458d610de3a05ff8c7f&

[tulip barn]

she do dat sometimes

[sudden belfry]

since its been a few days since the update, what are ppls thoughts on new eos and momus

[tulip barn]

both very fun and quite strong

both require a pretty decent mana investment, but they're strong

[spare kite]

Eos is weird, momus haven't tried it

[tired fulcrum]

Eos is a buggy mess lol

[civic ocean]

back on the grind on strim

[magic moss]

if anyone wants an update on how East is doing rn https://clips.twitch.tv/BadMagnificentShallotArsonNoSexy-TM3p6cFghbbDCnD_

[rustic valve]

What rarity are duo boons? I chose one thinking I was safe from Vow of Arrogance as I assumed it was outside the normal rarity scaling of common < rare < epic < heroic < legendary, but my magick got primed anyway

[steel sequoia]

eos is the best, so much fun its spirit machinegun

[steel sequoia]

i think is legendary from what ive primed

[rustic valve]

fair nuff, thanks

[spare kite]

Legendaries are also its own thing
But for arrogance purposes both prime the same amount

[limpid coral]

Is origination additive or multiplicative with furies, strength, huntress?

[spare kite]

Additive

[wind kettle]

does the bonus +30% damage to enemies in your cast also apply to omega casts? meaning if you use poseidon omega cast do they take an extra +30%?

[past salmon]

Normally yes I actually dunno about poseidon cuz geyser ring sucks lol

[tired fulcrum]

https://imgur.com/a/BHjEkY4 I think I like this hammer lol

[tired fulcrum]

it specifically doesnt work with poseidon

it works with regular omega explosion, zeus, apollo, and everything that aint poseidon lol

[barren juniper]

The cast has detonates which means it no longer exists. Seems reasonable, if pedantic.

[limpid coral]

Does it apply to enemies in the cast while you charge it tho

[tired fulcrum]

It works on regular omega cast explosion

[barren juniper]

Geyser ring is a different effect, given it deals flat damage rather than increasing the damage of the regular cast. In other words, the regular cast still exists during its hit, but it's gone before the Geyser ring hit.

[wind kettle]

so how do ppl build persephone

i did a test run with poseidon on cast and it felt good

[tired fulcrum]

I mean the regular cast disappears while apollo goes off but it still gets the bonus

[barren juniper]

Hmm, yeah, that's weird. I wouldn't expect it to work in that case.

I think the wording is imprecise on Apollo's though. You can't use another cast while it's active, so that leads me to believe the cast might still technically exist.

[tired fulcrum]

Thats true ig

[wild pine]

I looke for Zeus, Demeter, Apollo casts in that order. Then ... honestly haven't decided my favorite special yet. Hera probably first choice, but then Aphro, Apollo, Demeter, even Zeus all seem reasonable.

[sudden belfry]

what do yall think of aspect of circe? recommnded boons?

[magic moss]

good, personal choice is hera or aphro atk, hera for origination aphro for raw dmg for guardians

[sudden belfry]

if i go w hera atk, what other curse do i pair it with?

[wild pine]

freeze and cyclone are the easiest, lonegest-lasting, most all-around useful to add in IMO. daze sprint or blitz special can be okay

[tired fulcrum]

why does the wolf howl crit node get consumed even if you dont hit anything

Its impossible to make it apply to axe omega special since you shield first which consumes the crit charge

[wild pine]

Circe's serenity buff gives you a huge +% bonus damage to omegas, so you get the most leverage from extra power/extra hits when you can find it. Storm Ring, Arctic Ring, multi-hit hammers, etc.

Edit: also, crit. With base damage already doubled you get huge value from antler or mark or te wolf howl crit

[barren juniper]

Should put this in feedback IMO. I'm not a fan of having to use certain attacks before omegas in general.

Same issue with Dagger omega attack for example. I want the crit in my big AoE explosion, not the piddly opening attack. It's even worse since you can't buffer the charge.

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah ill do that

Actually it says "next hit" thats more of a bug then

41 seconds for eris, surely this will be fine

Chary wastes so much time

[fossil flame]

what you guys think about the moon hex ?

[past salmon]

which one

[fossil flame]

pretty good or useless ?

[fossil flame]

all

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1249154601798864896/image.png?ex=66664561&is=6664f3e1&hm=acbb578d3fc691ca857a7275cd93b58e33f19d4b802f920bbcfde0b8f543ceb8& nvm that was fine

[past salmon]

All hexes are next to useless at high fear (45+ probs) but really good at 32 and lower imo

[past salmon]

nice

[tired fulcrum]

its annoying how eris still has immunity a bit after the bomb falls pn her

[past salmon]

TRUE

[tired fulcrum]

I kept doing omega special dashes through the bomb only for it to do 0 damage to her lol

[sand crow]

Anyone have good build tips for Moros on 32 fear?

[merry kiln]

What aspects are good with little to no upgrades?

[barren juniper]

Moros, Persephone, and Momus are the only standouts off the top of my head. Their bonuses are super strong and levels just give minor stat boosts.

[tired fulcrum]

charon

[merry kiln]

huh, how should i build momus? 3.5 second between each attack seems a bit hard to land

[tired fulcrum]

#h2-feedback message @brave fern https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1249157518618525798/Hades_II_2024-06-08_17-23-48.mp4?ex=66664818&is=6664f698&hm=74889b6c52e2110e25b96295252304d0d51d87db7e48e3ac756626fdf1a678f5& theres no delay between the special and cast tho?

[sand crow]

Oh I'd say that Artemis is an INSANELY good aspect without leveling

[golden isle]

What makes Artemis better than backstab daggers?

[past salmon]

Yeah persephone is a shoutout
Very fun and quite an easy aspect to learn while being very strong I would reccomend

[past salmon]

crits go brrrrr

[tired fulcrum]

Crit are multiplicative with your other damage increases, backstab damage is additive

[golden isle]

0.o

[tired fulcrum]

Mel daggers bonus is kinda pitiful ngl

[golden isle]

I thought backstab was multi. they really ought to let you know these things.

[merry kiln]

also, how do i build moros torch? what gods should i take and how do i play it? not very experienced in torches

[barren juniper]

They're pretty flexible. Big idea is use Omega special once, get in melee range, and spam attack. Big attack boosts are great, so Aphrodite or the Hera+Hephaestus duo. Hera on special is nice to passively activate hitch.

[spare kite]

I just do born gain start, then force dem/heph depending on who doesn't show in erebus
Pray for the other to appear naturally

I prefer hera attack cuz she's already in tbh, spiteful strength is fun tho

[barren juniper]

Poseidon's gain is nice too since you have a ton of hits/mana spent.

[crystal pine]

Does anyone know if there's any website/video for builds? I'm struggling a bit to know what's good and what isn't

[barren juniper]

I mean, the game's in EA and actively being updated. Part of that is playing the game an learning. You could get on YT or Twitch and see what streamers are doing, though.

[crystal pine]

I've defeated chronos a few times but only with staff and axe but I want to try out new weapons/aspects and try to win with fear raised

[silent crow]

daggers are quite straightforward either build into attacks with aprhodite attack or build into omega special with poseidon special

[magic moss]

it depends on how you want to approach the game to clear high fears

i personally prefer to play with no timer and just ball with whatever i get during the run with no care of the build at all

so i dont like taking onion or desperation

or you can approach high fears with a build specifically in mind, in which case there are a lot of good and very viable options

[heavy palm]

Has anyone got a breakdown of the aspect of Pan damage numbers? Doing tests with not-Skelly, I find that you get behaviour like "32 damage per special hit if he's in the cast, up to about 5 knives, but all 24 knives gives only 256 damage (average ~11 per knife). What's going on here?

[magic moss]

where are you getting 24 knives holy

[heavy palm]

None of the knives were missing him (I was standing right behind).

Oh hang on, that 24 spirit isn't it

I'm still seeing weird numbers though. Sonetimes, without showing a miss it's only 160 damage.

[barren juniper]

Base damage is 25 per hit. You have 30% increased damage against enemies in casts from the Arcana card. This bonus is additive with any other boon and other modifiers. That's about it really.

You have up to 10 specials from omega with level V pan.

[heavy palm]

And there's no falloff in damage for the extra knives?

[barren juniper]

No. You can verify this without cast by just attacking at point blank. You'll do 250 damage.

[heavy palm]

Yeah, that mostly tracks. I'm on L3 (8 knives total) and mostly getting 200 from it, But sometimes 175 or 150. Maybe knives are missing without being visually shown as missing.

(I disabled all my Arcana for the test)

[barren juniper]

If you're using the cast, they can definitely miss. The homing isn't tight enough, so knives can circle enemies without hitting. The range is short too compared to Chiron Special and Artemis cast from Hades 1.

[heavy palm]

Yeah I think just that some are missing without it being visually clear that this is what's happening (I'm on a laptop so graphics quality is low).

Ahh well, sorry to bother people.

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1249165536043208734/image.png?ex=66664f90&is=6664fe10&hm=c60b38a026600469ca845aec2e1996514a8dd84c2257412394f11ffcf170726e& bruh

theres no way I throw, surely

[zenith bolt]

[barren juniper]

On attack though? Which aspect is that?

[glossy rivet]

spiteful strength on thanaxe was pretty dope last night

[barren juniper]

That ain't Than though.

Looks like Charon.

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1249166594178027520/image.png?ex=6666508c&is=6664ff0c&hm=a00bd5f05379cc5d3624b08b4cc0e90b15718d530741f24af22ab698ce66aaca& this is so free

[tired fulcrum]

that cast damage lol

+300% cast damage

[silent crow]

wtf it affects casts

[barren juniper]

You read your boon?

[tired fulcrum]

Wait

[silent crow]

bruh

[tired fulcrum]

Reading is for scrubs

[magic moss]

hm

[tired fulcrum]

Well i have dress so its still funny

[spare kite]

Lmao

[silent crow]

why is there a guy in feedback calling hera regen the worst in the game

[spare kite]

Trying to not get it nerfed

[tired fulcrum]

Theres someone calling born gain trash every day

[barren juniper]

Arachne and pray you don't get hit.

[silent crow]

i woinder if torches will get nerfed considering how many people still hate it

[spare kite]

(the idea is calling it bad so they don't touch it)

[tired fulcrum]

Lol got roxy to kill scylla

I have 161 armor rn lmao

[barren juniper]

Moros is the only standout. They need to fix some things with the special and omega special for the others to be strong IMO. Poseidon bug and lack of hitstun are the big ones.

[silent crow]

idk why they destroyed torch regular special i dont even want to use the specials on eos now

[tired fulcrum]

i cant remember if i locked myself out of torrential downpour or not

[silent crow]

pencil meta...

cmon i know u like writing 😊

[tired fulcrum]

Wait....

Taking off arachne keepsake removes the arnor

[silent crow]

WHAT

[tired fulcrum]

Why am i trolling myself so hard

[past salmon]

that is so funny why is this keepsake so mid

[barren juniper]

I forgot. I should've warned you.

[silent crow]

im surprised how good the keepsakes are in this game

[tired fulcrum]

Bruh this is run is so troll lmao

[wild pine]

Also backstab is just really hard to get in this game. So many enemies spin like beyblades. And the Dagger omega-leap attack is super finicky and unreliable.

[barren juniper]

So on armor, one thing that's really cool is having Demeter or Hera hit Hephaestus' boon that gives armor and knockback immunity. Every time it changes rarity you get a chunk of armor.

[silent crow]

half the attacks you actually use dont backstab anyway

[spare kite]

Lmao??

[wild pine]

I also like having once-per-run trinkets refresh when they level up.

[spare kite]

Oh yeah I knew that one

[barren juniper]

It's funny AF. I'm bad, but I just had like a gajillion armor anyways.

[wild pine]

@warped perch #h2-feedback message

Midnight, you mentioned being frustrated with the difficulty of safely landing attacks with Thanatos Axe and feeling like you have to force Frost Strike in the feedback channel.

I recommend that you also consider giving Nova Strike a shot. The amount of space you can buy yourself with it is wild and if you like it that would give you two defensive strike options to choose from.

Also, you may want to check that you know all the basic axe tech.

• You can charge a whirlwind and dash while holding the button down to begin your spin at the destination.
• You can spam dash-strikes to avoid getting locked in to the bigger swing animations (and can start charging off a dash-strike).
• Post-patch you can now do an emergency special-block in the middle of an attempted attack.
• You at least used to be able to charge the omega special up, dash right before it fires off, and click in any direction to fire it that way (if you don't click it fires the same way you dashed which is usually bad). Not sure if the patch changed the timings.

Finally, instead of taking a defensive boon in your attack slot, you might consider:

• Getting a freeze, cyclone, or drag/weaken cast from Demeter and/or Aphro
• Getting a ranged cast from Heph, Zeus, or Hades so you can deploy the CC at range
• Getting the Frost Flourish and dropping an Omega Special from range
• Taking a spammable safety hex like Jump, Sheep, or Goth Mode
• This way you can take a more aggressive attack like Sworn Strike or Flutter Strike and murder your enemies much faster
• A dead enemy is a harmless enemy

[alpine topaz]

if you got apollo legandary with aspect of eos would both of the baybreakers spawn 4 orbs

[wild pine]

no

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1249172658457804831/image.png?ex=66665632&is=666504b2&hm=a2a271b1475539de40470a2a3735c59a528376fd575ecfe0f64f66473a3c8e6c& well that was free

[alpine topaz]

why not 😦

[silent crow]

ChronosCircle

[tired fulcrum]

actually which attack even is that, time bubble teleport maybe

[silent crow]

how did you inflict it on chronos

oh nasty comeback

[tired fulcrum]

I think chronos moves come up in damage dealt whenever he hit your summons

a lot of night bloom win screens seem to have it i think

[past salmon]

weird

[tired fulcrum]

coarse grit reduces nasty comeback damage right

[ionic moon]

not according to that screenshot, 999x5 = 4995

[tired fulcrum]

I think i iframed most of the oneshots, lemme check

Yeah i took two hits from his dash and one from a ring and one from a tempus i think

None of the oneshots hit me

[craggy ore]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/839733316089413632/1249176221556932741/Screenshot_1340.png?ex=66665983&is=66650803&hm=fe4f754d52e4a1a350fd9360ee62c3d7bd79cd78c8a4add48fa478ff4b57ac8c& L bozo

[warped perch]

Nova Strike wouldn't quite solve the 'issue' I tend to have. the issue isnt hitting enough of an AOE. the attacks are plenty wide. The issue is ont havnig the 'CC' to stop enemies say...behind me or to my sides from smacking me.

I do try to do dash strikes sometimes, but they dont do near as much damage and nowhere near as much AOE (aka stagger lock. most of my issues seem to lie within armored folks not being CCed with such a 'commital' weapon)

Your omega special doesnt 'fire' in a direction without a Daedalus. Otherwise it spins around you.

I have gotten the cyclone and aphro casts and such before, but they often aren't 'enough' usually. It's hard to explain.

The ranged casts, admittadely, are an issue I personally have skill level wise. I often tend to miss them entirely because I'm busy dodging and fire it in an incorrect direction.

Frost Flourish is definately a consideration I hadn't had, that is something I could try. but it still has to do with the issue of 'requiring Demeter to even feel like the weapon functions at a basic level'

The hexes do help me sometimes, but often aren't really 'enough' so to speak.

Please note: these are not me trying to argue AGAINST, these are more so...me explaining my own feelings about each proposed option based on personal experience/playstyle. (it's also why in my own feedback I spoke that it might just be a me thing)

[tired fulcrum]

The omega special is the shield channel not the spin

[wild pine]

Omega attack is the whirlwind spin attack. There are hammers that let you project it at a distance or dash nd block while continuing to execute the spin.

Omega special is when you hold the block button and transition into a 25-mana giant AoE blast that crosses the whole room in a pretty wide line. It's not very good damage relative to the time or mana cost, but it is a very good way to apply a curse to a whole mob and stun them momentarily.

[tired fulcrum]

The omega special is pretty good damage lol

[wild pine]

I don't remember what the base damage is. 80? 100? 120? Something like that? That's okay but I expect more for 25 mana. The 20 mana axe whirlwind is 500 if you can land it all, and the 10 mana omega special on staff is 80 AoE.

[warped perch]

Ahhhh apologies, that was me misreading. Fully blame there XD. I'll have to give that tech a try sometimes.

[tired fulcrum]

Its 140 base and it can hit the same target twice especially with apollo

[silent crow]

its 140 damage but it has insane range and aoe and if youg et apollo special it double hits

[tired fulcrum]

Its also super spammable now without needing any hammer needs born gain tho

[wild pine]

Okay, that's really not bad

[warped perch]

But yea, I'll try out the dash-omega special tech
as well as the frost flourish

[wild pine]

It often looks to me like the damage-share triggers from "hitch" also micro-stagger enemies but not consistently so I'm not sure how it works or if I'm fooling myself

[warped perch]

worth a try at least

[sand crow]

Is it just me or does Hitch sometimes just... not work?

[spare kite]

If the enemy dies they won't share dmg to others

[warm island]

i just want a more "attack based " aspect on the staff , love going for the double hit hammer or double special but none of the aspects support that style well

[violet temple]

recommendations for 32 fear mel staff?

[magic moss]

Poseidon attack, Demeter Cast, Born Gain, triple Earth with Heph, the usual

[past salmon]

Bro #h2-feedback is such a funny place

I just saw someone call born gain the worst mana regen in the game

[charred lintel]

hi

yea i hate it

[past salmon]

It's by far the best gain boon in the game, what part of it are you struggling with?

[charred lintel]

because whenever i use it, no matter how much magick i have, i always end up running out or just not having enough for it to be fun. every other magick regen has a leg up on it because it regens indefinitely

[magic moss]

how in the world are you using over 500 effective mana per room

[charred lintel]

chronos

[past salmon]

You must be going through an absurd amount of mana in one room
At LVL 1 with 100magick pool it is like 500ish mana and it goes up exponentially with max magick upgrades

[charred lintel]

i am

hera boons in general always show up at the worst times for me. the heroic boon thing only shows up in erebus. this boon only shows up when i have a magick intensive build

[violet temple]

spam omega attack?

[barren juniper]

You mean non-omega attacks? I feel like Circe with things like double attack hammer, +30 power hammer, Apollo Legendary, and the various boons that give omega attacks more damage works pretty well. You just beat things up with regular attack then you can nuke with Omega attack as necessary.

[charred lintel]

i will say, i have yet to see it significantly pommed, and i think that would probably make a difference

[past salmon]

Ok but even in the most mana intensive builds you still shouldn't be priming out
The only time I ever primed out with born gain was on a torch build when I was literally using like 150MP a second lmao

[past pewter]

Born gain is the best gain boon for a magick intense build tho

[charred lintel]

are you kidding?

[magic moss]

just spam normal attacks

[past pewter]

If ur really running out of magick, just get more max magick

[past salmon]

No. It is straight up the best

[barren juniper]

Born Gain gets down to 1 mana primed. Even without poms though, it's pretty obscene if you aren't using that Fear that primes mana.

[charred lintel]

aph and poseidon CRUSH it

[magic moss]

ill bring out my born gain copy paste

[violet temple]

alright

[charred lintel]

not to even mention hestia and apollo

[violet temple]

what's born gain for then if it's just attack spam

[magic moss]

because im trolling i forgot my b

[violet temple]

ok lol

I assume going for coarse grit?

[barren juniper]

It literally scales your mana pool quadratically and there's no delay to the regen when using magick like the other Gain boons. Doesn't make you chase down orbs like Poseidon's either. Born Gain is the best by far haha.

[charred lintel]

delay to regen is a laughable statement and poseidon doesnt make you chase them down. they literally come to you

[barren juniper]

Like you'd have to be bab-bad to need more than 1000 mana in one room.

[barren juniper]

No TF they don't lol. Those things fly all over the screen.

[charred lintel]

you're kidding right?

[past pewter]

Literally no

[violet temple]

born gain is the #1 reason to take hera

[past pewter]

I thought born gain was ass initially because i didnt realise it would prime more than once per chamber

Then i actually took it

[barren juniper]

Born gain and Spiteful strength are like the strongest boons in the game right now.

[magic moss]

The reason why Born Gain is so broken in its current state is because of how every other mana boon is designed. Every other mana boon has a precondition that requires you to play a specific way in order to regain mana, whether it be standing still for Demeter or losing hp for mana regen for hestia. Hera, while there is a condition of priming for max mana refill, the way it is designed makes it so that a precondition simply does not exist. If you use more mana than what you currently have, it primes some and fully recharges. You essentially have multiple mana pools with no cost or condition. For example, if you have 10 mana left out of 100 total and you use a staff omega attack for example, you effectively have always had 190 max mana and 100 mana at the moment instead of having to meet condition for a different gain. You essentially are working with a 1000+ mana pool the moment you have >100 max mana and dont have to fulfill any condition to get the mana. For high fear runs where time is of the essence, having so much more mana available on demand is infinitely better than having to meet a condition to get the same amount of mana

Ex. At 100 max mana and common Born Gain with no pom (10 mana primed per use), you get an effective 550 mana to use. At 110 max mana, you get 650, at 120 you get 760, etc. Born Gain gives you exponentially more mana the more max you have

[charred lintel]

i honestly just dont find it fun or better

[barren juniper]

Hitch is probably the most useful status effect as well. Hera's quite good.

[charred lintel]

oh yea, hitch is great

her duos are also pretty good

[violet temple]

cyclone is my fav but hitch is up there too

[silent crow]

how is it even possible to run out of magic with born gain

[past pewter]

What one is spiteful strength again, is that the shackle one

[violet temple]

yeah

[silent crow]

you would have to actually miss omega moves or have 100 magic primed

[wild pine]

Every now and then they do, it' weird and I don't understand it. Like most of the time the mana bubbles scatter all over and wait to be picked up. But occasionally they just come flying toward me from across the room.

[barren juniper]

Let me give you a clear, numerical example of how strong Born Gain is. Say you have 100 mana and a white Born Gain that primes 10 mana. Your actual mana pool is now 550. Take one mana node to bump your pool to 130 and your actual mana pool is now 910. It's a disgusting amount of mana that doesn't require any regen time. You'd be hard pressed to burn through it all unless you're intentionally whiffing moves.

[violet temple]

hades 2 player runs out of mana with born gain, asked to leave club

[barren juniper]

I think there's a range where they start homing since you don't have to walk right on top of them. Or maybe ones that spawn out of bounds home.

[wild pine]

To be fair, I am often kind of relieved when i get Hearth Gain instead because if I accidentally prime myself down to 20 or 30 max I am still fine whereas Born Gain does brick at that point.

[magic moss]

every time someone asks about born gain im just gonna copy and paste this

[wild pine]

Lvl 1 Common Born Gain is not, I feel, actually that good below ~70 max mana

[silent crow]

usually if i have that low of a mana bar i picked up some other crazy stuff that means i can just one phase the boss with not that much magic so the conveneince ouclasses every other magic boon anyway

[violet temple]

hearth gain is kind of a nothing consequence if you're going for white antler so that's nice

[silent crow]

i never pick up hearth gain bc hestia is a bad god...

[barren juniper]

This should never happen unless Forsaking forces you into a boon that primes mana. The only other situation I can think of are Arrogance, which you should be building around, and Chaos penalties on boons, which you shouldn't take.

[magic moss]

hestia's visuals make up for her poor boons and i will die on this hill

[violet temple]

scorch is kind of bad tbf but she has ranged cast, scorch is still a status, and scorch sprint op on surface

[magic moss]

im not actually strong,but god do i feel incredible playing full hestia

[barren juniper]

The ranged cast and secondary Scorch triggers for Origination aren't bad. Main reason I'd pick her is for the Infusion though. Power sources are scarce.

[silent crow]

idk if its just me but her infusion feels like it doesnt do anything

[violet temple]

it depends on how much scaling and fire you have

[silent crow]

i had like 5 fire one run and it still felt like it did nothing

[barren juniper]

The effect is quite strong on Torches and Blades since their hits have low base damage. It can double the DPS on those builds since a chunk of Apollo and Hermes boons give fire too. It's just hard to justify taking Hestia's keepsake on those weapons IMO.

[wild pine]

I basically never take Hestia's keepsake but I'm often fairly happy to see her.

I generally prefer Lightning Lance and Born Gain to Glowing Coal and Hearth Gain, but I usually consider the Hestia versions acceptable substitutes, and it's nice having both on one god.

Spontaneous Combustion is also really nice in some builds. And Smolder Ring used to be my second-favorite non-omega-cast after Arctic Ring, although lately Passion Ring has impressed me.

[silent crow]

smolder ring not having 100% uptime pisses me off so bad

[wild pine]

(Almost everything I say about my own play or what I think is good should be assumed to be 32-fear context unless otherwise specified)

I run max arrogance and don't always run Titan because I've been on an Antler kick for a while. I rarely run Artificer and only run Boatman about half the time. So I start with 50 to 90 mana in Erebus and don't necessarily get more mana especially quickly unless I re-roll doors or skip boons for it. I also like hexes and value the optionality to take a hex over a mana pot if they're both offered.

I run the +epic chance card about half the time and am having a hard time deciding whether it is worth while.

Especially with it on, but sometimes also when it's not on, it's quite common for me to get offered some desirable epic boons in Erebus, alongside common or rare boons with inherent priming. Usually I don't feel like I really need the epic stats. But, because I am on Forsaking, if I'm offered an epic version of something I want I have to either take it immediately, re-roll to dodge it, or lock myself out for good.

Something as basic as Rare Born Gain, Common Trusty Shield, Epic Sworn Strike will prime 60 of my 90 base magic, leaving only 52 to spend before I go too low to use 20-cost moves. Even if I pick up a pom to reset 10 and a +5 bump from centaur, with 45 magic and 8 primed per encounter it's only about ~120 total I can spend before some moves are impossible. On the other hand, if I had Rare Hearth Gain instead of Rare Born Gain, I'd be regenerating 10/second which means I only need 12 seconds to catch up, and the 30 mana cap only chafes a little bit.

At that point I could even pick up something wild like a rare keen intuition and go down to 20 max magic, which would let me actually trigger a boosted axe whirlwind every time I take 2 seconds off to regen mana.

(TLDR: On a lot of weapons I gravitate toward glass cannon multi-hit-omega-spam builds where I want to get Zeus/Demeter/Heph and may pick up Static Shock, Trusty Shield, and Winter Coat if I get the chance. In that context, any continuous mana regen helps a lot giving me flexibility with boon order and rarity since I can remain playable even if I go down to a very low mana cap)

[barren juniper]

Not getting Slow Cooker or the duos I want is what's getting me. Slow Cooker would've been 1.8x attack damage and 1.64x omega special damage here 😫 . I used like 6 rerolls...
https://i.imgur.com/NeZD9eS.jpeg

As for Rings, Hera ring is actually kind of growing on me because of Artemis' Lethal Snare and that one arcana. It's really nice to keep the cast down forever on Moros. Gimping Hecate's adds and those fish in the 2nd biome is nice too.

[hollow stag]

What are good boons for the revamped Momus staff?

Aside from Hera’s Born Gain

I think Demeter has a boon that boosts Omega Attack

[civic ocean]

have to figure out how to build the blades at 32

I think I've been getting pretty brutally unlucky though

2-6 staff
2-6 dags
4-4 axe
4-4 flames
8-0 skull

[civic ocean]

@magic moss I figured out what happened it was the Vow of Desperation

[round shell]

do you think theyll nerf it?

[magic moss]

how ya think @civic ocean

[magic moss]

yup i called it

[magic moss]

most likely, if they dont i will be shocked

[magic moss]

you just build momus staff like any other staff build but with the added bonus of triple casting whatever

[barren juniper]

I feel like the others should just be buffed instead. The delay on regening magick while/after using it is dumb IMO, especially with things like Zeus' and Poseidon's dashes. Removing the regen stop would be huge for the more magick heavy builds.

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1249224865299431487/image.png?ex=666686d1&is=66653551&hm=4a7e0f1d98b15fdd6b842fe5d4545cc7778c5ca9d9a58d48d9726dbb392e6900& why does the game just put together specials and omegas instead of separated

[civic ocean]

They should probably do a bit of both, make born gain have a higher base prime and make regens actually work (and make arrogance not worth 4 fear I think)

[plain fossil]

fwiw if ur build uses a LOT of mana then juggling born gain and arrogance can be tricky

[bleak night]

Charon moment

[plain fossil]

of the last two 32s i did with momus one time i died to scylla because THIS MYNT GUY told me legendary boons reserved 30 mana instead of 40 lul and the other i ran out of mana with chronos at 15% or so and had to autoattack him to death

[bleak night]

[past salmon]

YEAH SCREW THAT MYNT GUY

[bleak night]

They bulli me

[barren juniper]

Are you suggesting distributing the fear to other/new options? I think 4 fear is fair for how limiting it can be.

[past salmon]

I think arrogance is usally workable tbh

the problem with arrogance and panic is that no magick builds just completely ignore them
But idk how you balance that

[plain fossil]

fundamentally i think the big thing is that zero mana strats need to be worse, its better than last patch but still theres probably too much power in the whole ignore-mana-click-static-shock-click-trusty-shield setup

[bleak night]

True lol

[plain fossil]

idm how thats done but i dont think a nerf to born gain on its own gets us to where we want

[past salmon]

what will I do without 😭
Nah but yeah I agree

[magic moss]

ofc pan poseidon imo is still the undeniable easiest and best option if you just want to clear with blades

Some cook builds ive thought might work is

1. Funeral Pyre Artemis with Hera Attack and Born Gain and Smolder Ring
2. Stellar Slam Melinoe with Hera Attack, Apollo Super Nova and Volcanic Flourish, Go Demeter cast for triple Earth. Just play for Hitch and big aoe special dmg
3. Apocalyptic Storm Melinoe with Heaven Strike and Arctic Ring
4. Sunny Disposition Pan with Aphro Special and Heartbreaker with any of Apollo's req, build is just designed to burn down guardians

[plain fossil]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/751691459580919834/1249016297837166752/image.png?ex=66666d53&is=66651bd3&hm=ad8e82e36142930a54b9cae1f58cff3e137ff330914ab8ad020b6d65ae33970d&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2230&height=1254 look at my mana lmao those 2 dds lost were purely to having to beat up the boss with left click

[barren juniper]

You can't. Same way blue hearts hurt slower-hard hitting builds more than others. Or how timer hurts builds with weaker AoE options.

[past salmon]

tbf Momus is like giga mana hungry isnt it

[plain fossil]

yea it is

[past salmon]

you are probably actually better off with a different mana regen on momus actually

atleast with arrogance in play

[bleak night]

Hestia probs better on Momus for regen

[plain fossil]

well born gain does 2 things so its probably a dps loss to do something else

[barren juniper]

Conversely, I feel like omega moves are just bad on a chunk of weapons given how long the charge time is. Especially when the slowdown card doesn't affect timer or Chronos.

[plain fossil]

i can try hestia tho

[past salmon]

Hera being too good moment #8239

super excited for boon patch honestly im hoping we see some hestia apollo and maybe aphro buffs

[magic moss]

honestly i should start making like an faq

[civic ocean]

yeha I think 4 fear for Arrogance is too good not to take for sure just IMO for 32 consistency

[magic moss]

i already have the "why is born gain so good" copy paste

[plain fossil]

aphro is like where i want gods to be pretty much, id be more ok if like trusty shield and born gain got taken down a bit

[bleak night]

Idt Apollo will get changed too much, I enjoy the AoE boosts

[plain fossil]

eh look i mean if ur aiming for free fear i think forsaking needs to just straight up go before anything else

[civic ocean]

Forsaking is in a pretty good spot now tbh

[past salmon]

idk he is just super underwhelming compared to a lot of others
Maybe thats a case of the others needing nerfs tho

[magic moss]

we got god pool, what builds are good for high fears, what boons are best for certain aspects, what fears should i go for 32, how do i clear 32 underworld/surface, etc

[plain fossil]

forsaking is still a net buff ngl

like id rather do forsaking than 0 fear

[barren juniper]

Forsaking could easily be split into two levels. And it's kind of a double edge sword vs a pure penalty like some other fear options.

[plain fossil]

bc u can control ur boons more easily

[civic ocean]

It's a net buff if you can keep track of what's going on and not take a boon when the pool is unfavourable and when you don't do that it just makes you lose the run

[past salmon]

that would be good
then I can contribute my delusional 32F setup

[magic moss]

true

[civic ocean]

I'm down for a general community project

[plain fossil]

i mean yes but whats that thing u always say

something something get sicknasty something something something

[civic ocean]

Yeah but like I don't think we should be nerfing Fury off of 6 because you can get used to the speed or whatever yknow

Like Forsaking can be 1 fear I guess

[plain fossil]

fury doesnt make the game straight up easier is my point

[magic moss]

@civic ocean thoughts on my cook

[past salmon]

can we buff Onion to like 5F lol

[barren juniper]

They could make that 5-cost one that disables arcana a few levels as well.

[civic ocean]

I don't think Forsaking currently makes the game straight up easier, at least in my experience

[past salmon]

it makes infusions easier to get ig

[civic ocean]

I think forsaking eats on average smth like 3-4 dice per run?

[plain fossil]

that depends pretty heavily on what u want to do with ur run lul often it eats -4 dice per run because it deletes boons that arent coarse grit

[civic ocean]

idk what half that stuff is

im gonna sit on blades a bit and think, I do want to do a trusty shield build tho

[magic moss]

ok ok

im gonna start working on the community faq thing

[past salmon]

I mean yeah often times forsaking is helpful
It makes Mint condition and Trusty shield easier to get
Makes Grit easier to get
Can make dem cast easier to get if you get unlucky
Like its kinda big atleast at high fear

[magic moss]

This is what I have for my born gain copy paste, if anyone wants to make edits please lmk

The reason why Born Gain is so broken in its current state is because of how every other mana boon is designed. Every other mana boon has a precondition that requires you to play a specific way in order to regain mana, whether it be standing still for Demeter or losing hp for mana regen for hestia. Hera, while there is a condition of priming for max mana refill, the way it is designed makes it so that a precondition simply does not exist. If you use more mana than what you currently have, it primes some and fully recharges. You essentially have multiple mana pools with no cost or condition. For example, if you have 10 mana left out of 100 total and you use a staff omega attack for example, you effectively have always had 190 max mana and 100 mana at the moment instead of having to meet condition for a different gain. For high fear runs where time is of the essence, having so much more mana available on demand is infinitely better than having to meet a condition to get the same amount of mana

Ex. At 100 max mana and common Born Gain with no pom (10 mana primed per use), you get an effective 550 mana to use. At 110 max mana, you get 650, at 120 you get 760, etc. Born Gain gives you exponentially more mana the more max you have

[barren juniper]

Yeah, forsaking definitely makes Infusions and duos easier. Legendaries harder, though. Legendaries are kind rare already though and a lot of them are mid. I think it's a net gain. Pretty nice as a default form of play, especially since there's not purging pool.

[barren juniper]

Exponential is mathematically incorrect. It's quadratic. I can give you the actual formula if you like.

[past salmon]

how are duos easier?

[magic moss]

that would be great yeah

[civic ocean]

Forsaking is good at finding one specific offering

[barren juniper]

Most duos only require 1 boon from each god, so thinning the pool.

[civic ocean]

which is often the requirement for the duo

[past salmon]

oh true ig

im silly

[civic ocean]

It's a little bit difficult to quantify because it's like an axis that pulls on the player in a different direction than most of the vows

But maybe 2 fear is a little too much of a reward for players who can make it into a net gain. It's like if Panic was worth, like 3 or 4 fear, everyone would be playing panic huntress weapons at 32