h2-builds-and-combat

[bleak night]

I've tried so many times and he just kills me in phase 2

[low bear]

ah damn

[sly plaza]

I don’t know what’s funnier. The fact that this is so much crazier than the H1 version or how poor Chronos aim was in phase 1 😂

[bleak night]

It's just missing the Mel quips

I saw the H1 video, and Zag was saying stuff like, "Now, I'm mad." etc

It added a lot of personality to him just standing there and letting the Zeus-Ares duo win

[past salmon]

imagin you just reflect the full 999 boosted
I love autowinning P2 aslong as I have 2 DD

[bleak night]

technically possible, but I'd need way too much HP

Poseidon + Aphro on a run and get Life Affirmation and Double Up early

[grizzled rivet]

yea thats exatcly why it doesnt allow it to trigger on death

[past salmon]

yeah it just requires too much

[bleak night]

I could technically do it without Coarse Grit, honestly

Daze lets the instakill miss, but that's just playing with rng

this wasn't even the level 41 Nasty Comeback run btw https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1242358633489240115/image.png?ex=665cb564&is=665b63e4&hm=faa6083f5506fa74f05442d22044fdc0c0e04d955212a4d19ac3dd3d380ae60d&

I lost that one iirc

[swift shadow]

I have perhaps the dumbest of questions but, I'd appreciate the help. I am still confused about how Scorch works. 1 instance of damage every sec of this (40dmg) accrued? what? english not my first language

i've heard people say that scorch is literally poison. Literally Dio's drunk effect. Is that correct?

[placid shuttle]

hell splitter + aphrodite attack
300 damage and 180% bonus

the entire build in one hammer and one boon

[tired fulcrum]

Boons apply stacks of the scorch debuff in the amount listed on the boon. Stacks of scorch are then consumed to deal damage at a rate of 40 stacks per second to deal 40 damage

Higher rarities and levels of scorch boons increase the amount of scorch stacks applied but itll still always deal 40 damage per second

[analog ether]

Opinions on the Familiars? I find Frinos very awkward to use.

[placid shuttle]

felt so good smacking ||eris||

[bleak night]

I just think of familiars as bonuses, tbh. Frinos can sometimes block stuff, don't expect it too much. Otherwise, he's free 40 HP. Toula is a free DD, and you can run at him and he'll pounce on enemies, but nothing you should rely on

[sly plaza]

It was also nice to run Frinos and the Tablet to farm for shades on those final grasp levels

The HP is also a pretty nice bonus ngl

[bleak night]

Oh, that's true. I forgot the most important part

If you run Toula + fishing rod, you can fish a lot more! The roguelike minigame is fun and all, but I do like to play the actual game sometimes.

[past salmon]

both familiars are pretty good I think

[past salmon]

except you dont get to do fishing game with toula

[bleak night]

I forgot

[tired fulcrum]

id rather not have the experience of bobber mini game not working

[coral shale]

are there other familiars or just the cat and forg

[tired fulcrum]

Just the two

[bleak night]

seems like there's two more down the line

two of the pet spots are empty atm and there are still the pickaxe and shovel that have no pet equivalent

[sage compass]

Will there also be more weapons / resource gathering tools down the line aswell? Looks like some empty slots

[bleak night]

probs not, they have a lot of resources as is lol

[coral shale]

i think- one more of each

[sly plaza]

Ngl I do this just to accumulate lots of fish passively to sell

[coral shale]

a sixth weapon, just like hades 1, and the 5 point pentagram has one more slot open.

[bleak night]

Yeah, I'm at 20k bones by now

I'm out of things to buy unless new stuff comes out, then I guess I can get Nightmare off the shop

[past salmon]

do you have aspects maxed?

[bleak night]

Yeah

[past salmon]

damn

[bleak night]

during my meme runs I just saved money in case Charon sold Nmare

[sly plaza]

Mynt bout to buy the broker’s whole stock of whatever new meta resource we get

[past salmon]

yeah ig I havent done really any meme runs
Im always doing either speed attempts or high fear
Which means I dont really stop to fish either

[bleak night]

Try meme runs for the purpose of ranking your keepsakes up

Made it bearable to grind, at least

[past salmon]

I went hard into keepsake ranking up from the start so I only have 2 left anyway tbf

wheel and onion

[bleak night]

Ah, nice. Onion needs a buff imo

Not even numbers-wise. Just let it bypass Vow of Scars

[past salmon]

yeah

[topaz meteor]

What's a good build with the skulls? Aspect of Melinoe

[past salmon]

hammer for moooor skulls is great yesyesyes
Hera attack is just always good on the skullerinos
Honestly mel skulls can work with a lot of stuff

[white steppe]

i play mel skulls as apollo omega attack spam

[topaz meteor]

Ooooh will try ty

[white steppe]

fish for either rocket skulls or full salvo, not both, both is horrible

[past salmon]

I feel omega attack is kinda just bad on skulls
The only time omega attack is getting use is the hammer that does it for me lol

[topaz meteor]

I kinda hate the omega attack I would prefer to shoot straight

[white steppe]

well yea thats what the rocket hammer is

[topaz meteor]

Oh okay

[civic ocean]

Can u wire me some bones I am doing 32 fear with not fully upgraded art daggers lmao

I have played Artemis daggers twice, both at 32. Weapon seems pretty crazy you crit people stupendously

[frosty sparrow]

Is Blitz just weak or am I missing something? The target is already dead by the time it activates or an extra 120 damagae after dealing 120 is neglibile. Its like Ares doom from Hades but much weaker

[stoic ridge]

try using blitz on a fast attacking weapon while using zeus omega cast, blitz will proc constantly then

[civic ocean]

@past salmon we got ourselves a non blitz believer get the hammers

[past salmon]

IM BRINGING THE HAMMER DOWN

[bleak night]

What does the Arty blade increase per level again?

[civic ocean]

Your intuition is correct friend

Blitz is pretty bad when the enemies are lower hp and they die before it goes off

It's much better against later run enemies and bosses

[stoic ridge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aPqeGZMIps

[civic ocean]

You can think of Blitz as adding half of its stated value as flat damage to the attack that applies the blitz and the attack that pops it

[clever drum]

Honestly? I think that shows more how busted Storm Ring is

[past salmon]

Lol this reminded me of my fastest Sirens fight.
Iirc it was Blitz Hera Medea with Demeter Zeus duo

[sly plaza]

Blitz also becomes easier to proc with more meta progression from arcana cards. Especially when the huntress or origination are leveled up

[civic ocean]

Storm Ring is so crazy lol

[stoic ridge]

true, but it comboed with blitz is insane

[past salmon]

I am a blitz believer but it is probably one of the worse parts of Zeus kit
Zeus in general imo is fantastic

[stoic ridge]

zeus is somehow better than in hades 1 imo

[clever drum]

Blitz is weird, it sits in this weird spectrum between mediocre Doom to basically Merciful End if you have something that pairs well with it

[frosty sparrow]

A basic attack boon shouldnt require an entire build to make it work. Poseidons attack boon shreds on many weapons from the start and can get stronger. Aphrodite can give you up to 200% extra damage. I just wish the king of the gods was better. I think there is something to tweak there

[stoic ridge]

uh, isnt that the entire point of hades? to make combos of boons to get a strong build? not just 1 singel boon lmao

[sly plaza]

Yeah it’s very feast or famine

[frosty sparrow]

Also Hephaestus, he seemed great to me in the beginning but as the game progresses and I unlocked more arcana cards and familairs and got to the late game an exta 200 or 400 damage every 10-16 seconds is just weak

[sly plaza]

Especially early on where by the time the blitz would have proced on Erebus mobs they were one hit away anyway

[stoic ridge]

use storm ring for 150 damage every 0.13 seconds or hephestus for 200 damage every 2 seconds . . . hmmmmmmmm

[civic ocean]

It's worth pointing out that epic Aphrodite Flourish will add something like 50 damage per hit to a 50 damage attack which is less than Epic Heavenly Flourish which I think is 180/3 = 60 over 3 hits?

[sly plaza]

You can alleviate this by using poms to reduce the cooldown period but even then it’s a bit awkward imo

[civic ocean]

I might be wrong on the numbers though

[stoic ridge]

blitz felt like garbage at first but once you do 1 good blitz build, you understand that the cap is near limitless

[sly plaza]

Love it on the skull special tbh

[civic ocean]

Blitz is quite good on a mix in move too like I can run Aphrodite on Axe for that sweet sweet 200% and then just mix in a special to my combo for a bunch of free damage from Blitz

[sly plaza]

Just because you can do the big omega and get everything blitzed up before firing a skulls into the crowd

[wild pine]

Like Hephaestus's Volcanic boons, Blitz can be good when either your attack or special is both optional (you don't need to rely on it for bread and butter damage) but also easy to weave in to your normal combos. For instance on Artemis dagger you can take Blitz Special and tag someone with a thrown dagger before jumping in with your omega attack to do a lot of bonus damage with minimal risk or time investment.

[civic ocean]

It's v v good on Persephone skull since it's constantly bursting and reapplying blitz

[frosty sparrow]

yes thats true, but Blitz concentrates the extra damage at the end. Most things are dead by then or you just break the armor. It either doesnt proc or overkills things. Strangley its best against bosses rather than mobs which is in mahy ways the opposite of Hades 1. Blitz despite the name is slow.

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think this observation is correct

And I think its also true that as you climb higher you will find less and less stuff dying before blitz can deal meaningful dmg

[stoic ridge]

if things are already dead then it will easily finish off the things that arent already dead

[wild pine]

There are also some pretty good duos that interact with Blitz, although on full vow of arrogance I'm not sure they're quite worth the magic cost.

[frosty sparrow]

I need to play more skull and torches too if I am honest. I hate both of those weapons.

[stoic ridge]

alot of people like eos on torches but i definitly prefer moros cause of the explosions

[civic ocean]

We need a new to the discord starter pack which is just like:

"Man the Flames suck"

"Wow scorch is so bad"

"Why can't anyone deal as much damage as Poseidon"

Imagine being Amir and you've gotta read that thousands of times

Hestia Torches are gonna be so broken lmao

[stoic ridge]

i hope they got a hestia buff / rework in the works

[civic ocean]

Me too I wanna win a ton of runs

[stoic ridge]

shes honestly my new favorite god, sorry poseidon

[civic ocean]

I'm gonna be like an Ike player when Project M came out, just feasting

[sly plaza]

Ngl it doesn’t even need to be a crazy rework. I think just a change to how quickly scorch deals damage or how consuming scorch stacks works

[wild pine]

Honestly we should see about getting some explanations of unclear mechanics pinned.

[civic ocean]

Nah we just make Echocolat do it

[silent crow]

flames have the best variety in aspects at least

[stoic ridge]

i really like hestia with heroic attack + cast + the instant damage at 300 scorch boon

especially since that 300 damage is subject to multipliers from origination

[civic ocean]

I like getting AQ and watching Chronos' HP bar tick down

[past salmon]

Air frying

[tired fulcrum]

I like getting funeral pyre bug and watching health bar get deleted

[timber pawn]

I thought about this, and it's very dumb. But hestia Zeus dem, local climate charon lol.

So aq scorch right, with local climate, just so it follows you, and then blitz on special, and you just apply blitz via block white aq scorch pops the blitz.

It'd take way too many boons to get going but yknow

[frosty sparrow]

Scorch needs fire extinguisher otherwise you can get it to insanely high numbers that wont mean anything. I am sure they are wroking on it. I like Scorch for the Steam duo but also realized recently that it seems to consume slip and end origination which is counter productive

[tired fulcrum]

At that point just zeus cast

[civic ocean]

I think if there was a familiar or keepsake that gave you elements this would be free

[wild pine]

Hmm. I think I wouldn't want to the the default rate at which scorch burns go up because that would make the curse fall off faster when I'm just using Hestia cast or the channel duo to enable Origination. But if you're actually using scorch as your damage, it's frustratingly slow.

I think the solution is to make the damage-per-tick scale up with the amount of damage currently stored up, but sub-linearly, so that applying more total scorch results in an enemy burning for both more damage per second and more total seconds, not just one or the other.

[civic ocean]

Demeter's defense and control are kind of extraneous with aq scorch though because you can soend like 4x the amount of time in the fight trying not to get hit

[timber pawn]

True tbh

[civic ocean]

Yeah a big part of a lot of aq scorch builds is that you can start storm ring

[sly plaza]

A slow damage ramp as stacks are consumed could definitely be good. It would retain its function as far as origination enabling and give an incentive to build those super stack towers

[frosty sparrow]

Scorch should maybe just act more like hangover. You can stack multiple ticks of it but each tick is x damage over y seconds. I guess they wanted it to be different

[timber pawn]

Storm ring can kinda carry erebus for a lot of weapons

[sour cape]

Its more Hestia Special and Attack donr apply enough scorch

[civic ocean]

And the legendary actually hinders the status not helps it

[wild pine]

Doesn't 40 per second take forever to kill anything important, though, regardless?

[civic ocean]

Not really

[frosty sparrow]

Another option would be if they made it so for each 100 scorch on an enemey say it takes an extra 5% damage from everything

[civic ocean]

But the mechanisms already exist in the game to make scorch deal more damage if you want to build around it

[wild pine]

My proposal: If you apply 100 scorch, the target burns for 40/second for 2.5 seconds. If you apply 200 scorch, they burn for 60/second for 3.3 seconds. If you apply 400 scorch, they burn for 90/second for 4.4 seconds, etc.

[sour cape]

Well when you only apply 15 per hit, you kinda going to be limited by how fast you apply them anyways for increases in dps to not really matter

[civic ocean]

But like no serious player is gonna go "ah ha time to build around scorch" and then take only the common flourish and press it over and over again

[misty cargo]

Has anyone else noticed that Hera's Engagement Ring boon doesn't seem to always work with the damaging enemies who join the encounter? Like when the enemies jump out of the water in Oceanus, I feel like it would sometimes do no damage to them. Also, the damage to enemies joining encounter is not synergizing properly with boons that affect casts - like Ordinary Chasm increasing the damage% or Artemis Easy Shot which hits foes damaged by omega cast with an arrow. Is this working as intended? I hope not

[civic ocean]

Easy shot needs the enemy to be damage by the omega cast bursting, not any attack done inside an omega cast (presumably so Zeus doesn't deal like 800 damage an omega cast with 2 boons

[sour cape]

I feel like base scorch should good enough on its own without needing additional boons , specially since its meant to be a primary dmg source

It'd be like if Poseidon was only good with another god's infusion, that would also be not ideal

[civic ocean]

do that on literally anything else, take their common strike/flourish and do not upgrade it, or take any of the supplementary boons, and see how u do

[sour cape]

Poseidon is fine

[civic ocean]

Like go ahead, go mel staff and take common Wave Strike and see how well it does by itself

[sour cape]

So is Aphro and Hera and Apollo

[civic ocean]

no they're not, they all suck at rank 1 common

[sour cape]

Well you can at least get rare

[shy summit]

those 3 are pretty good on their own because they let you deal more damage immediately

[civic ocean]

okay so you don't have to worry about hestia only dealing 15 because no rare hestia boon gives 15

[tired fulcrum]

Theyre still better erebus starts than scorch attack

[sour cape]

Yea

[misty cargo]

Well, the wording doesn't specify it's just the burst damage. It just says "Any foe damaged by your omega cast" and technically speaking, they are being damaged by that omega cast. I think more precise wording is warranted

[sour cape]

Id rather poseidon staff attack start which begs the question why not Poseidon special than scorch start

[civic ocean]

Sure, but the whole point of scorch is that it does better the longer the run goes and the more you build into it, if Scorch were just also good in Erebus it would just be stupid and thoughtless

[misty cargo]

Because Engagement Ring's wording says "Your casts...deal damage to every foe that joins the encounter"

[sour cape]

Poseidon is also fine later since you got Slip and Legendary

[shy summit]

full scorch is still underwhelming

even with a rare fire extinguisher

[sour cape]

Scorch is only good with AQ

[tired fulcrum]

I mean the only building into it that makes it actually good is aq. And I doubt aq scorch is even intended by the devs

[civic ocean]

https://clips.twitch.tv/WildLightShrewPermaSmug-KzuxBKT9in5R5ddT idk I don't really find this underwhelming?

[shy summit]

i anticipate it will be buffed unless they prefer to keep it as an origination activator

[sour cape]

And thats like 1 gimmick

We cant seriously be using AQ as the reason why Scorch is good

[shy summit]

what is aq again

[sour cape]

At that point might as well make Scorch do 0 dmg per tick, its still just as strong with AQ 👀👀

[tired fulcrum]

We're talking about how the devs intended you to build scorch with its secondary boons and hestia legendary and duos, which suck

[sour cape]

Air Quality, makes each hit do min 30 dmg

[civic ocean]

most of the secondary boons with scorch are pretty good? double damage to armor? 90 flat on omega specials? The basic strike/flourish are bad and the legendary isn't great but most forms of Hestia scorch support aren't that bad

[sour cape]

Scoech ticks like 6-7 times per s

[tired fulcrum]

Aq makes scorch do like 180 dps instead of 40

[tired fulcrum]

Controlled burst or whatsit isnt scorch its just flat damage. And 80 dps against armored enemies isnt good

[sour cape]

Hestias support boons dont really have much to do with scorch.

fire Extinguisher even has anti synergy with AQ

[civic ocean]

It's quite good, one cast eats through the entirety of a thug's armor over 3 secs IIRC

[tired fulcrum]

I wouldnt call fire extinguisher or hestia dem duo good

[sour cape]

I guess Steam is ok but 💀

[cursive oyster]

doubling 40 dps is still only 80, the omega special only applies extra scorch if they don’t have it and even then its still just extending the duration not adding more damage

[civic ocean]

Being able to do that while doing something else is good

[frosty sparrow]

worst cast in the game, I hope they alter it in a mssive way.

[civic ocean]

It's the preferred speedrun cast

[shy summit]

hmm what are the other casts again

[sour cape]

I woudl like to see this just be a boon support buff, rather than cast buff. Kinda like Cyclone

[shy summit]

the heph cast isn't that great

[misty cargo]

I disagree. The damage it does to foes joining is not inconsequential. In certain situations you're just entirely nuking enemies as they spawn

[sour cape]

Solar Ring, Freeze, Heph triple strike dmg, Storm Ring, Aphrodite vortex, Scorch ring

[fair depot]

what is generally the best/easiest 32 fear setup?

[shy summit]

my time has come

(use momus with poseidon special because it's mega broken rn)

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vS73iWzIxaOupBwoVUJPjxtmSJEtrlTnLh9GFJzTYblncgPo7Ka1J08JG7r-4k6qEPwOJWH_xfp4al2/pubhtml wep dependent check some of tehse out

[sour cape]

It doesnt really scale well and really suffers from blue shields

[cursive oyster]

its good for like some rooms in oceanus but like doing 70 damage on spawn ain’t gonna do anything after area 2

[civic ocean]

I need to make a PSA about "doesn't scale well" or smth

[sour cape]

Also inc duration is kind of a downside

[civic ocean]

Taking 1.2 minutes longer in Erebus also "doesn't scale well"

[cursive oyster]

???

[civic ocean]

You take engagement ring to go fast in Erebus

and oceanus

[sour cape]

Theres no reason to do that outside of timer

[civic ocean]

yes there is, enemies hurt you

[misty cargo]

I guess. I currently have it doing 174 damage at level 3 epic. If it actually synergized with cast boons (like I feel it should), e.g. getting the 32% damage buff from my Ordinary Chasm and +20 arrow damage from Easy Shot and actually hitting every enemy that joins the encounter I think it'd be pretty sick

[shy summit]

I like that hera has commitment-themed boons and the cast is one of the more interesting ones
It shifts your playstyle and makes you play around your cast more often

it's a great idea but just not very strong atm

[frosty sparrow]

This blows my mind. Off to youtube

[sour cape]

Heras use is just way too limited imo

[civic ocean]

holy moly

[sour cape]

Yay for one shotting witches but would like it to be more useful throughout the run

[cursive oyster]

if they nerf born gain they better buff the rest of hera’s kit or nobody’s taking her

[misty cargo]

I'd still go for Hera even just for her mana regen boon alone. It's the best mana regen by far as far as I've seen

[sour cape]

Except wait, unless you take 1 blue shield

then its back to doing nothing

[silent crow]

how does heras cast even work

[civic ocean]

stripping shields from literally everything in the encounter = "doing nothing" lmaooooo

[magic moss]

aint no way people are down playing heras cast

[sour cape]

Heras hitch is fine

[silent crow]

i just dont know what it does 😭

[sour cape]

hits every enemy that spawns

[tall notch]

At least Dem gain doesn't require facetanking

[silent crow]

how much damag

[magic moss]

on enemy spawn, if your cast is on the ground then it does a fixed damage to them

[sour cape]

Like 70?

[civic ocean]

its 70 base unpommed/rarified

[cursive oyster]

ok so it mitigates 1 fear yippee

(hitch is nice but i never build around that outside of eos and even then thats just for born gain)

maybe on than axe

[silent crow]

oh wait thats actually pretty good wha

[shy summit]

it's good for room clears but I'm still in hades 1 mode where I only care about single target boss damage

[silent crow]

is there like a followup boon that makes it apply hitch

[sour cape]

No

[shy summit]

you also have to know when enemies are going to spawn and time it appropriately

[cursive oyster]

no that would be so cool tho

[silent crow]

aw unfortunate

[civic ocean]

no you dont it lasts forever

[magic moss]

dude hera cast can single handedly carry oceanus and tartarus and do incredibly well in fields

[civic ocean]

preach

[silent crow]

i should pick it up one day 😼

[sour cape]

Unless you got blue shields 💀

[misty cargo]

Yeah, Hera cast lasts a long time. And the biggest adds come after you kill the last enemy of a group so it's pretty predictable

[magic moss]

for oceanus if you know its going to be going to be the mass spawns you just plop it down and kill the first wave, hera cast insta kills every other waves

[silent crow]

i mean itll knock off a shield thats decent

[sour cape]

And yea knocking off a blue shield I guess is cool, but like literally ecerything can do that and with less wasted dmg

[magic moss]

for fields, hera cast before every encounter and thats a free >70 dmg to every enemy that spawns, no need to time because you decide when everything spawns

[shy summit]

in oceanus i would still prefer pretty much any other cast for the utility of being able to drop it on pursuing mobs

[civic ocean]

I got a fear guide coming out in a bit but here's a heads up tip for you

you can right click on certain vows to turn them off if they're going to weaken your build!

[cursive oyster]

and origination

[magic moss]

for tartarus a pomed/rarified hera cast can make every hourglass enemy go down to 1-2 hits, depending on build which is insane

[stoic ridge]

hera cast? the worst cast in the game?

[frosty sparrow]

I feel like I have only used Hera cast on the surface but everything there seems to tank the spawn damage quite easilly?

[sour cape]

Shields are otherwise low impact fear

[civic ocean]

LMAOOO

[shy summit]

i think the heph cast is the worst tbh

[frosty sparrow]

Ill play around with ti more

[magic moss]

nah aint no way this guy is saying shields are a low impact fear

[civic ocean]

Pop quiz how much hp% does 1 shield give the average enemy

[cursive oyster]

look shields were bad in h1 because we had em for 9 free heat but it’s either that or take essentially double damage

[slow canyon]

Has anyone made it up and down using the oath of night with 32 for the last ||statue||?

[cursive oyster]

ive made it down but not up

[sour cape]

Like 8 hp if you popping with Cyclone 💀

[urban pendant]

In Erebus? Like 100%

[civic ocean]

loud wrong buzzer

On average it's around 50-60%?

[polar folio]

how do people feel about magick as a reward? maybe it's different on higher fear, but rn, it feels like the magick regen is strong enough and most prime effect costs are so low that max magick is rarely the right choice

[shy summit]

hades 2 no-lifers are already on it (me)

32 fear guide was posted earlier

[sour cape]

Yea if you popping it with Hera Cast it certainly is a huge hp boost

[shy summit]

it's very build-dependent

[silent crow]

i wish it could be combined with health or money as a reward tbh

[timber pawn]

It becomes relevant sometimes at 32 with maxed vow of arrogance

[civic ocean]

Vow of Dominance is 3 Fear for 30%, 2 shields is almost 100 or so flat HP increase for basically any build that isn't taking a full week to clear enemies by praying they get coarse grit

[timber pawn]

Like I had some duo boon builds I ran that primed almost 100 magick

[cursive oyster]

my thought process is this:
if you’re spending a core slot to get better crowd control but you can’t use the fear that makes crowd control slightly harder, then maybe your crowd control option isn’t that good

[shy summit]

fun fact: aromatic phial lets you have a heroic boon without priming

[slow canyon]

Ah really! Is it hard to find? Having trouble with up so far. ||Polythimus|| often screws me over with walking so then I’m done for when I get to Eris.

[civic ocean]

mana = damage for the most part

[magic moss]

erm just momus smhing my smh my head

[shy summit]

or a pan blades build people seem to like those

[cursive oyster]

pan is fun but takes way too long to get going on surface imo

[shy summit]

perhaps

[slow canyon]

Interesting. I’ve mainly been using sister blades with level 5 on aspect of melinoë for the backstabbing.

Find it annoying that they’ve reduced backstab damage to just that aspect and weapon.

[shy summit]

. here's the guide east posted btw
I assume momus is mentioned in there

[polar folio]

for sure, just feel like low fear, mana needs are covered pretty well by regen boons over max magick. Seems like things change a bit at higher fear

[sour cape]

Polyphemus prob hardesr part of 32 fear surface

[shy summit]

polyphemus at +40% speed is practically impossible to dodge for me

do not take faster enemies on the surface!!

[cursive oyster]

or yknow eris summoning minions whenever she feels like it, or like losing all dds to charybdis

[magic moss]

polyphemus actually isnt that bad if you have any ranged cast like Zeus or Hestia

[civic ocean]

looking forward to learning 40% surface ye

[sour cape]

He is really no joke, kinda overtuned

[magic moss]

his jump is locked by the cast, so if you cast before he does his jumps he jumps in place

[silent crow]

i hate this games fire mechanic

[shy summit]

totally manageable at regular speed but crazy at +40%

[tall notch]

I take most mana i come across 😭

[frosty sparrow]

I miss how in Hades 1 say that nectar would also act like a pom or that darkness (ash/grasp equivalent) would give a minor max health boost. I know see ash/grasp bones and more as just useless. Still Hades 1 went through a host of currency changes so sure this will too

[sour cape]

I lost 2 DDs to him and none to anything else

[shy summit]

I feel this way about cerberus as well

[tired fulcrum]

ngl i think im the only one that likes poly

[slow canyon]

My least favourite are also the enemies that try and hug you. Like I swear they still move when you use cast.

[magic moss]

i like poly

[slow canyon]

Oh and the assassin enemies.

[shy summit]

I like polyphemus as a boss fight, but it ain't easy

[tired fulcrum]

Except for the sheep just delete the sheep

[civic ocean]

it's more that at high fear you have to deal as much damage as you can as fast as you can and that is usually, on most non-panic builds, capped by your maximum mana

[magic moss]

when he does his first jump, dash backwards and use your ranged cast, any subsequent jumps are locked to the cast range, thats how i deal with him

[silent crow]

im not a fan of polyphemus and charybdis

[shy summit]

the sheep adds are one of the more interesting parts of the fight
they just need to telegraph them better

[low bear]

max MP is pretty important for Born Gain and for the vow that primes your magic

[tall notch]

I wish some enemies (Eris) tried to hug us

[magic moss]

also i learnt that 40% poly is just infinitely harder than just losing 1 boon so uh try that

[cursive oyster]

i use both :(

[silent crow]

charybdis on 40% can just hit you the moment you see tentacles on screen right after doing bullet hell its awful

[tired fulcrum]

i hate artificer

[cursive oyster]

do i have a problem

[low bear]

I would like a decrease in the frequency of meta currency or give them weaker rewards like in H1

[civic ocean]

not if ur sick with it

[tired fulcrum]

Antler 0 mana run and i get a centaur heart into a max magick

[civic ocean]

can't be runnin artificer on antler runs now cmon

[magic moss]

whats meta currency

[slow canyon]

Does anyone find the special of the axe pretty useless?

[civic ocean]

minor find

[timber pawn]

Kek, ya. Staring down the door in fields giving you 3 things actively detrimental to your run

[cursive oyster]

bones, poms, grasp, ashes, nectar

[low bear]

psche, ash, nectar, bones

[magic moss]

ah ok ok

[sour cape]

Its quite strong on Charon

[low bear]

poms don't count because they actually help your build

[cursive oyster]

i love charon

[magic moss]

que

[sour cape]

Unless you mean the block for dmg... yea its not ideal thats for sure 😂

[shy summit]

you can get lucky with axe builds and make it strong with charon
otherwise hard to justify in non-special runs

[slow canyon]

I think in general I preferred the weapons in the first game so far. I like the sister blades, but not really a fan of the other ones.

[magic moss]

yall have never had the pleasure of going hestia charon

[sour cape]

has potential for Blitz Scorch

[shy summit]

use it for an occasional block otherwise

[tired fulcrum]

I want boons tho

[magic moss]

it sucks balls but man is it fun as hell to watch and play

[vapid fable]

It's fine although I would like the gap between the end of the shield and the strike removed

[magic moss]

raining hellfire on those mofos

[neon glen]

How-diddly neighborinos

[sour cape]

I was doing a Blitz build with Hestia duo, I got Blitz on special and the duo but never got AQ

[shy summit]

this is the most annoying part for me
the fact that omega special auto-activates

and leaves you exposed!

[low bear]

I never use Axe special except for Charon runs so yeah it could be better

[civic ocean]

lots of really cool anim cancelling tech you can do with it

[tired fulcrum]

i hate erebus

[civic ocean]

axe special is sick nasty for that reason and a quick block

[tired fulcrum]

Why is it always nothing but minor finds

[magic moss]

dude quick blocking is so nice i love it

[slow canyon]

What weapons/aspect have most people been using?

[low bear]

if I could quick block I could have dodged instead I feel

[sour cape]

Staff and Daggers prob most popular

followed by Axe

[cursive oyster]

mel and eos torches, charon axe, pan daggers, and mel skull

[sour cape]

Then Torch and Skulls are the most hipster I believe

My favs are Dagger and axe

[spare kite]

Eos/mel skull

[neon glen]

Than Axe > Skulls > Other Weapons for me

[low bear]

Axe normals are too clunky imo I always use the omega attack

[cursive oyster]

torches are fun when you know how to use em

[slow canyon]

What does the aspect of pan do? I read it but didn’t really see the benefit of it by not having the backstab damage

[low bear]

but yeah my ranking would be: Axe > Dagger > Skull > Staff > Torch

[civic ocean]

grills bacon

[vapid fable]

Homing special

[polar folio]

need an oven aspect now

[low bear]

all your knives hit enemies on the cast instead of flying away and hitting nothing

[neon glen]

The torch is definitely the worst, I hated using that thing in the Chaos Trial

[cursive oyster]

for some reason spiral knives is compatible with the aspect so have fun

[civic ocean]

no need, we have air fryer build

[sour cape]

Daggers kinda overtaking axe for me, I thougut I wouldnt like the spamming the attack, but the Omega and Special playstyles really fun

[slow canyon]

Ah right ok.

[frosty sparrow]

The hammer for the axe that lets you use all your other moves while using the omega attack is ridiculous. You can use the special block while doing insane damage, dash away or do extra attacks

[polar folio]

skull aspect that's a tiny air frier

[vapid fable]

The 360° hammer+ bounce hammer + pan aspect + Poseidon is

[low bear]

I wish we had a weapon that allowed you to chain normals and specials together in a combo

[neon glen]

I didn't put any nightmares into the Pan special and have already spent all the ones I got from testaments elsewhere so I didn't use it at all after I found out they were a viable build

[slow canyon]

I’d say my least favourite are the skulls. Often I’m caught with no ammunition. Think 3 is really too little

[sour cape]

I didnt think of trying to block while spinning 👀

[polar folio]

skull and torches are awkward for me in a way that the bow and gun weren't in Hades 1

[cursive oyster]

i like playing mel skull as a melee weapon

[sour cape]

I like Persephone skull

[low bear]

Eris Zeus was by far the easiest 32 heat clear for me

[sour cape]

Torches dont mesh with me

[slow canyon]

Completely agree. For the torches I’ve had success with I think it’s momos aspect? Where the orbs blow up with the special

[sour cape]

I played Chiron bow and that was comfy

[slow canyon]

So I’ve done the big special and then kept on shooting attacks

[shy summit]

insert tony stark gif

[spare kite]

I'm surprised I like pan as much considering how chiron was

[vapid fable]

Torches not switching targets mid holding attack on a controller is annoying

[sour cape]

I liked Chiron and like Pan

and Rail but we dont have a rail type weapon

[frosty sparrow]

I miss the rail, it hurts watching Eris use it but love that it showed up in the game. No reason for it narratively but I would love to see her use the other weapons from the first game when they add the alternate boss fights

[magic moss]

to anyone who dislikes skulls, try medea with god mode on to get used to how the skull works. Yes it isn't optimal since god mode is considered "cheats", but a large part of the skull's gameplay loop is weaving in specials to give invuln while collecting the skulls after you fire, and medea all but forces you to do this. Its a really good way to learn how to maximize special usage while also primary usage

[spare kite]

I love mel skull, my fav melee weapon

[sour cape]

I like Persephone skull but just as casting weapon 😂

[cursive oyster]

almost as good as eris rail, the best h1 melee weapon

[sour cape]

and for big special dmg on bosses

[spare kite]

H1 had too many melees anyways

[tall notch]

I could never get used to eris rail

[frosty sparrow]

The skull aspect with Glory, is there a trick to charging it. Is it just straight up damage or do certain kinds of attacks, criticals charge it faster. A full glory charge seems to be overkill but charging it to full takes forever

[tall notch]

She uses it better than I did

[sour cape]

Eris was so fun since the bonus dmg you could build a lot of ways

Like cluster bombs 👀👀 blow up the whole screen

[tall notch]

Sitting in the blasts just felt too awkward for me

[spare kite]

I need EM eris to have clockets

[neon glen]

The adamant rail in general was not really my vibe. I was always an Arthur aspect fan, which is why I really like the axe

[cursive oyster]

nope, it’s meant to be used as a cast weapon with an ult

[sour cape]

Or the giant aoe hammer

[spare kite]

She already has hazard

[sour cape]

although her aoes are huge

[cursive oyster]

her 10% health aoe with hazard

[spare kite]

Give her seeking fire for peak annoyance

[tall notch]

I need Eris and Nem teaming up on Mel

[sour cape]

Oh geez

[slow canyon]

Does anyone find the restrictions on how many arcana cards, and also how to get them activated a bit too restrictive?

[cursive oyster]

it’ll just hit you from ephyra

[spare kite]

Poly 2

[magic moss]

it does get frustrating at times, wish they reduced the arcana cost for some cards

[polar folio]

Eris but she summons Poly

[neon glen]

It does feel a little limited for arcana cards; I hope they add more ways to tack on extra arcana cards to your build.

[sly plaza]

EM Eris be like “you know what?! Up yours trouble. Tim for ME to use some hammer!”

enables hazard bomb

[magic moss]

like boatman costing 5 feels illegal considering its all but useless for most high heat runs and just an added bonus for low heat runs that arent in any way crucial

[polar folio]

def feel like I settle into the same few cards because of that

[sour cape]

Boatman you need for +4 rolls

[cursive oyster]

i think it costs 5 to balance it also giving 4 extra rolls

[neon glen]

It would even be interesting if the flip side of the arcana cards - assuming they have flipsides - impose debuffs that add to your arcana so you can further optimize your builds by weakening parts you don't need and strengthening parts you want

[cursive oyster]

ooh

[slow canyon]

Yeah and I find it’s pretty tight when you can only level them up by 1, and loads of the cards are +5 and +6

[magic moss]

oh for that corner card thats stupid as hell

[cursive oyster]

reverse eternity

[sour cape]

I was thinking cutting Boatman for Str

and just pray for good luck

[cursive oyster]

strength is underrated arcana

[neon glen]

"here's all your cards at once but you'll lose 3 per region' would be kinda funny ngl

[sour cape]

But 6 rolls is really nice to assemble your combo

[sour cape]

It really is, its often 30% more hp

[slow canyon]

Can you explain what you mean by rolls? Not familiar with that system. Or maybe I’ve not noticed it.

[spare kite]

Loses defiances in the first roll

[sour cape]

You can roll doors or boons to change offered rewards

[cursive oyster]

often more if you can get armor at low hp in erebus or smth on high fear

[sour cape]

Like if you dont like the 3 boons offered, can spend a roll to get 3 random ones

[slow canyon]

Oh right yeah. I’ve not been able to use that yet as i have other cards activated.

[sour cape]

Actually more than that considering that DDs put you close to Strength threshold.

And Armor + increasing effectiveness of heals

[cursive oyster]

reverse rolls would just be ap2

i want antler to activate on a %hp basis

antler + strength builds could be really funny

[meager bramble]

What the heck would reverse DDs be?

[cursive oyster]

all enemies get dds

[magic moss]

oh absolutely not

[meager bramble]

"Super-don't-defy-death - pass twice as much time when you die"

[spare kite]

Bring stubborn defiance back

[meager bramble]

"When you die you REALLY die"

[sour cape]

Over 3 DDs and full hp, Strength would be worth

(1+0.3+(0.4+0.3) x 3)/(1+0.4x3)

Or like close to double the hp you'd get without Strength?

[neon glen]

Enemies already have revenents- but- oh, goodness, no. Guardians getting Death Defiance in reverse DD would be a nightmare.

[cursive oyster]

dying actually sends you to the house straight to chronos

[spring osprey]

Argueably that's what the blue overhealth is, without the heal tho

[sour cape]

Yea thats actually kinda crazy

[cursive oyster]

chonos would get three extra minion summons

[neon glen]

What a nightmare

[spare kite]

Just make it not trigger the phase bubbles again lmao

[spring osprey]

Chrnos only summons the stun hourglasses, nonstop

[cursive oyster]

sadly that only happens at 50% and dds heal 40

[neon glen]

Granted, though, Chronos' minions are mainly a problem depending on your build; the axe and any cast build tend to have really good crowd control for the boss fight

[empty salmon]

any tricks on high heats via torches or skull? which gods do you all prefer for them

[spare kite]

Imagine if Chronos pulls a Scylla last phase but with the hourglasses

[spring osprey]

Honestly wouldn't be too crazy since that would hard counter aspect of pan

[sour cape]

Hades kinda had Death Defiances

[cursive oyster]

i mean so does chronos

[sour cape]

Yea Chronos does too

[neon glen]

Imagining an extreme measures version of Chronos that heals to 50% once per phase is something out of a horror story

[spring osprey]

Torches I have no clue, skull I tend to go with either Hera or Demeter for raw DPS

[cursive oyster]

chronos summons the stun pots from h1 and can heal from them like dad does

[spring osprey]

Might just be my playstyle though

[neon glen]

Horrible idea,I love it

[spring osprey]

Chronos summons Theseus to taunt you from the sidelines, dealing emotional damage

[polar folio]

Chronos with past, present, future clones 😊

[neon glen]

Theseus just jeering you from an audience of shades that don't like Hades, that's peak

[sour cape]

Theseus likes Hades though

[spring osprey]

"YOU HELLSPAWN MUST BE ALL ALIKE, WEAK"

[sour cape]

Gave him a minigun chariot

[spring osprey]

I feel like Theseus would be totally bribable unless Asterious convinced him otherwise

[sour cape]

trueee hes not very smart

[cursive oyster]

honestly i think theseus and mel would get along

[shy summit]

EM4 Chronos just spawns Hades and Theseus at the same time

[spare kite]

Dude is favored by all olympians, as much as I can hate him that dude is gonna go down fighting

[shy summit]

called shot

[sour cape]

Yea I dont think Theseus would side with Chronos voluntarily unless he was tricked

[spring osprey]

counterpoint: Theseus is very very dum

[spare kite]

Make chronos summon the blue crystals/invulnerability ones lmfao

[sour cape]

Which could be possible since hes dumb as a bag of rocks

[cursive oyster]

how hard would it be to beat hades and chronos at the same time with the same inputs for both games

[polar folio]

Scylla fight sometimes being replaced by Theseus and the Minotaur, feat. Charybdis would maybe make me buy this game a second time

[spring osprey]

facts

[spare kite]

What build is H1 using

[polar folio]

if Theseus gets a guitar

[cursive oyster]

idk hestia

[spring osprey]

depends, are you using a DDR pad

[sour cape]

If Asterius was out of the way I could see Chronos manipulating him

[cursive oyster]

and a drum kit

[frosty sparrow]

Im sure the arcana cards will eventaully have an upiside down version for each of them. Fits the Tarrot card vibe I think they are going for. I also think unused grasp should have some kind of use. Even if it were extra magic, health something. So if your ideal cards add up to 29 and you have 30 grasp you get something for that 1 unused grasp or to make trying no arcana card runs fun.

[spring osprey]

Right, like a "Fate's Lesson" or something

Imagine you finish an all Fear Run and suddenly all your cards just flip

[fringe lichen]

pan blades, 32 fear, red poseidon special, blue hera mana. Final slice, dancing knives or sureshot flurry?

[spring osprey]

Pan blades means sureshot probs unecessary

[cursive oyster]

sureshot’s actually decent on pan

[spring osprey]

I'd go with dancing knives for AOE, but what's your other Daedal upgrade?

[spring osprey]

Ehh, I usually gun for a remote cast ahead of time

[fringe lichen]

first hammer this run

[spring osprey]

If you don't have one then sureshot can mitigate melee dangers

Plus it's still a good combo upgrade with the other special Dae upgrades

[cursive oyster]

fair but yknow it’s nice to have. if you have a ranged cast take dancing

[spring osprey]

oh absolutely

[fringe lichen]

so i will hope for the best and take dancing before getting a ranged cast

[spring osprey]

definitely depends on playstyle, I usually jack up Desperation Vow to close to max so I tend to lean towards high risk reward upgrades

[cursive oyster]

gl

[spring osprey]

You got dis

[fringe lichen]

trying to decide going hermes vs demter now. room 10

[frosty sparrow]

Also does Frinos (The frog) ever actually attack? I upgraded it so he does 40 per jump which might as well not exist but saying that I dont recall ever seeing it actually activate

[fringe lichen]

i think going demeter for the condition may be better? to activate the 2 conditions card later if i get the slip one

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1246587490811252856/Screenshot_216.png?ex=665cee92&is=665b9d12&hm=2bfbf4339fb4a080368231e416027d3c95be3097cce46f51da485d109d692501& got chronosed

[magic moss]

i have no idea what your build or what you're looking for but if you're going for a demeter focused run take demeter, in general, i always go hermes and look for that dodge chance

[magic moss]

this momus?

[fringe lichen]

pan blades, 32 fear, red poseidon special, blue hera mana, dancing

[magic moss]

jesus christ what

[cursive oyster]

take hermes so you can still slot in zeus or hestia i think

[tired fulcrum]

moros torches

[cursive oyster]

or force them with keepsake and give up on chaos/hammer/dd from keepsake ig

[magic moss]

if you room 10 then i would def take hermes

you arent doing a dedicated demeter run and while the cast is good bro you have dancing and red poseidon on pan at room 10

greed a little

seeing the choice be demeter or hermes means you have demeter in the pool, can always get it later

[cursive oyster]

i did not know this information, good to know

[magic moss]

yeah you have 3 gods in your god pool that changes every run, and if you dont have a specific godly keepsake then only those 3 boons will show up

is how i understand how the pool works and i forgot what the other condition was to mix the pool mid run, but whateves irrelevant to this convo

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1246589227878318110/image.png?ex=665cf030&is=665b9eb0&hm=7e0b2dd4423d8ccfacf25de30f272c4419526aa107de9fdd0e6d904177fb3cf2& ofc win first try on save state. how tf did I throw this

[cursive oyster]

i knew the pool was a thing but I didn’t know it was predetermined

[spare kite]

Pool is decided when you take a boon from that god, not at the start

So they might not have dem in the pool yet

[cursive oyster]

oh k

[magic moss]

so if im understanding this correctly, pick a boon from a god, that god is added to pool, after the 3rd unique god, that pool is locked unless you keepsake

[cursive oyster]

yep

[spare kite]

Correct

[magic moss]

sick

[spring osprey]

That's actually huge meaning you can rig the right boons using vow of forsaking

[magic moss]

how do you save state?

[spring osprey]

Also is it just me or is vow of forsaking actually an upside fear condition than a downside

[magic moss]

really depends on what you're going for and whether or not you get lucky

[spring osprey]

I've saved so many runs eliminating bad boon choices to rig my next ones

[spring osprey]

That's definitely fair

[tall notch]

It does very little most of the time but the lows can hurt. Badly.

[magic moss]

if you have the 7 rerolls, def risk reward is more skewed on reward

[spare kite]

And the usual addition
Hermes & similar odd encounters don't count for pool
Removing all boons from a god doesn't remove them from the pook (pool of purging pls come back)

[tall notch]

Like if you're forced to replace boons crucial to your build

[spring osprey]

For sure, I usually find it works well to eliminate bad attack/special mods (specifically Hephestus's) so I can then high roll into armor gain later on, which really helps with the no-healing vow

Since most of his non-moveset boons are really good

[tall notch]

Have you heard of pencil meta?

[spring osprey]

Nada

[tall notch]

So. There's a strat where you write down every boon thst appeared so that you always know what's gone from the pool

[spring osprey]

Ahh, gotcha gotcha

[tall notch]

I use pen and paper

[spare kite]

https://hades2-crossroads.vercel.app/pencil-meta there's also a site for it

[magic moss]

and thats cringe as hell and only for try hard losers XDD (im kidding pleqase dont hurt me)

[tall notch]

My latest run has pencil meta pauses in it 😭

[spring osprey]

I can see why that might be handy, gotten the "No boons left, have some gold you can't spend because Charon's decided his supply is worth more than your petty demands" a few times since I didn't realize I'd burned through all the options already

[spring osprey]

Handy, definitely checking that out

[tired fulcrum]

Probably explains it https://docs.google.com/document/u/3/d/1r4pogNx7iZx0BBJ_WJOn8RYZ-qv-2oBiENXpLq1pjdg/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=117407315133986334734

[fringe lichen]

hook knives dont trigger poseidon special again, right? pan blades, 32 fear, red poseidon special. trying to decide between hook and boundless

[cursive oyster]

they do not, take boundless

boundless basically doubles your dps with born gain

[rich bolt]

God damn some monsters on 40% vow is hella cracked

Attack speed

[magic moss]

if you want to play on hell difficulty, do a surface run with 40% speed and double shield on thanatos axe

[spring osprey]

Hook knives dps is less than boundless?

[cursive oyster]

with wave flourish and pan i believe so

[spring osprey]

Ahh wait nah I was thinking of the 16 knife AOE

[tough pasture]

i finally got the oath of the unseen.

Question: to get the fear (say for beating cyclops), do I need to be victorious on the entire run (beat eris as well)?

[cursive oyster]

nope

[rich bolt]

Haha nah i am just experimenting on diff vows to see what its like, some of them kinda unfun to me so i avoid it, like things being too expensive to buy

[spring osprey]

Yeah boundless is nuts, the extra charge speed is insanely good since || Chronos's ability to ignore action slows can be a pain ||

[cursive oyster]

also because time slow doesn’t extend your cast duration for pan

[spring osprey]

Definitely don't recommend using the no cards and not too high on the time limit

[magic moss]

ooooooo hell mode established

[spring osprey]

Everything else is pretty managable, also recommend using all the boon related ones as a group since they actually work pretty well together

Especially the less boons and the less boon choices ones, basically bundle nicely together into "Less Boons this run"

[slow canyon]

Find the amount of nightmare you can find pretty restrictive. Especially when it seems most of the aspects need it to level them up.

[spring osprey]

Along with less mana per good boon

[rich bolt]

Do you peeps usually start with a boon keepsake to establish a build str8 away?

[magic moss]

thanatos axe surface run 40% speed 50% revanent chance Desperation 3 no cards, no mana start, 2 shield

[spring osprey]

That has gotten me killed so many times

[magic moss]

thoughts on my cook?

[cursive oyster]

I MISREAD THAT

[rich bolt]

Bro i read that wrong

[magic moss]

typically the only 2 god keepsakes that are used for dedicated builds that are needed are poseidon for his special on pan or momus and hera for born gain on eos

[tough pasture]

oh, interesting...

Your statement confirms something that I noticed but wasn't entirely sure I saw it correctly.

[spring osprey]

Nah, almost always Dae with knives and sickle, otherwise Hermes speed for time limits or armor to mitigate no healing or risky playstyles

[magic moss]

other than that not really, and if anything people reroll for hammer

[tough pasture]

Yeah, sometimes.

[spring osprey]

Only ever used Hera or Hest because MAGIK

[rich bolt]

Which ones eos?

[cursive oyster]

yeah, i always take god keepsakes in area 1

[magic moss]

aspect of eos on torch, attacks grow bigger in size and come back when you sprint

[cursive oyster]

i’d also say apollo on charon axe and aphrodite on various melee builds

[tall notch]

The good one

[cursive oyster]

one of em

mel torches with flutter flourish, triple helix, and exceptional talent is really funny, it sounds hard to get but i got it 2 runs in a row

also born gain

[spring osprey]

Which one's flutter again, all the dae upgrades for flames kinda meld together for me

[silent crow]

aphro special

[tall notch]

That sounds like pink aura

[spring osprey]

Could just be a playstyle preference but they all seem pretty boring

[cursive oyster]

it is pink aura

[tall notch]

PINK AURA

[silent crow]

flames hammers suck flames aspects are fun

[zenith bolt]

mel torches with heaven flourish, romantic spark, and toasting fork

[spring osprey]

That definitely seems the case, unique stuff on the variants but minor number buffs on upgrades

[tall notch]

Can someone post pink aura? I got bad phone signal

[spring osprey]

and in some cases inexplicably having downsides

[silent crow]

i prefer it like this tbh feels good to not care about hammers finally

[tall notch]

@bleak night 🥺

[spring osprey]

That's definitely fair, they can be basically required on most of the other weapons

[fringe lichen]

my first ever tartarus on 32 fear, lets hope i clear

[silent crow]

they are basically required on most of the other weapons
except maybe skull idk i havent done enough skull grinding nmare sucks

[spring osprey]

Skull upgrades are pretty insane too

[cursive oyster]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1159823243218272309/1245859101293023313/Untitled_video_-_Made_with_Clipchamp_2.mov?ex=665ceb34&is=665b99b4&hm=1b6ab7bd8e4c8a6c2d44cb3f7c03174e3fb34f2f3339e94d8d1fed832fc0dc85&

[spring osprey]

Even though they're required they're insanely fun at least, most boons are number buffs so having gameplay variety upgrades add to replayability

[spring osprey]

That explains so much lmao

[silent crow]

yeah but i wish the aspects were more unique instead og the ahmmers

[spring osprey]

Chronos cannot handle the power of orb

[spring osprey]

Defo agree, number buffs across most of them

[silent crow]

and some of these hammers are just "your thing hits twice for no downside" and its like ok wow cool

[magic moss]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm born gain mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[spring osprey]

And in some cases kinda lock you into either getting lucky or so minor you can barely notice it

[silent crow]

than aspect is just zag bow but with an extra condition so epic

[spring osprey]

Honestly if the reward for not getting hit wasn't just crit chance I'd enjoy that one even more

Maybe if it was a time limit thing like Hermes's H1 trinket

[cursive oyster]

that’s like saying eris is boring because it’s just a % damage increase

[spring osprey]

Don't get hit and get a huge buff, but you can't just camp a corner the entire encounter

[spring osprey]

Think they meant it's just increased crit for the huge task of never getting hit for value

[silent crow]

standing in your own bombs is fun, than gives you crit chance for using the weapons

[cursive oyster]

fair

[spring osprey]

With a melee weapon

[silent crow]

you can just keep the crit chance across rooms too if you dont get hit lol its a non gimmick

[spring osprey]

Like if it was something like "Charge a huge burst of damage you can stack up with hits, but if you get hit it cancels early" then it'd be more fun

Land consecutive hits at close range, but don't get greedy

But it's just a barely consequential double dps reward

Which you could just get from attacking twice

[silent crow]

than axe is good dont get me wrong 20% (global?) crit is insane

but man its boring thanatos is literally in the first game he uses his weapon and it spawns funny circles that kill things why cant we have that

[spring osprey]

Nah agree it's handy, just not super flashy considering you basically need to memorize dodge openings

For consistent ongoing value I mean

[spare kite]

if only his keepsake in H1 was different

[fringe lichen]

i got clapped bruh

[silent crow]

😭

[slow canyon]

Has anyone cleared the trial of haste? Really can’t do it haha. The staff hardly does any damage.

[spring osprey]

sorry to hear that

Chronos can be really tough on 32

[fringe lichen]

(insert word banned by automod) started from the funny draw in and deal damage fast, like, wtf

[proven orbit]

Most of the damage in that trial is in the attack, but sadly its paired with a slow fluid gain. If you can somehow replace that boon, you should be golden

Miniboss chamber is essentially required to cut some time in the biome

[nova cairn]

chat what boons do we use for momus, I know it's OP but I gotta know

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vS73iWzIxaOupBwoVUJPjxtmSJEtrlTnLh9GFJzTYblncgPo7Ka1J08JG7r-4k6qEPwOJWH_xfp4al2/pubhtml

[pulsar canopy]

Is there anything stronger than aspect of pan with Poseidon special?

[small hawk]

momus poseidon?

[pulsar canopy]

I’ll have to try it

[civic ocean]

alright time to start going for the 40 32s

[tall notch]

Start with pink aura

[magic moss]

Whenever you first clear a room, run around and look for the first encounter. Follow the gold leaf trails on the ground if you cant find any. Once you start an encounter, then follow a nearby gold leaf and that will typically lead you to the tree that reveals the location of everything. Once you get that, all the enemies should have spawned and you can omega attack spam to kill everything.

[neon glen]

man I don't know why but ingenious flourish just refuses to show up

[sour cape]

Spam Omega attacks try to save hp since it often comes down being able to tank the timer dmg

and make sure the trinket is max level

[lone sundial]

no idea if it's meta but i've been enjoying static shock for crowd control, especially if you get the thing that makes it bounce off you

[rain hazel]

So ive never been grabbed by the cyclops, usually just dash away and thats enough, but got grabbed this time so how does it actually work?

[tired fulcrum]

The grab angle seems really wide like 270 degrees or something

[rain hazel]

In front of him Im guessing?

[tired fulcrum]

Well the angle also extends to behind him. If youre directly behind him you wont get grabbed but if youre a bit on either side of his back you can get grabbed

Though dash should also be able to iframe it where ever you are with the right timing i think

[rain hazel]

Hm, Ive probably beat him like 10+ times and never intentionally dashed behind him so it really threw me off guard to suddenly get hit by it lol

[rain hazel]

OK so i thought base torches upgrade was super meh, but just realized you can stack special omegas

[rich bolt]

I find it funnyhow my first 2 clears were with weapons i didnt like at first (skull/torch)

I really like skulls now tho

Torch is still a bit iffy

I hardly use attack on torch and just spam specials and omega specials

[plain fossil]

Its about 270 deg yes with poor range

[winter wind]

I struggled with it for a while till I realized the key is to get Apollo's legendary and Apo-Pos duo boons (which you're all set up for, just need Apollo Cast first)

[plain fossil]

He can also grab sheep if theyre in range, someone suggested black sheep explode if he eats them but i can confirm that does not happen

He just complains about "bad sheep" and gains no hp same as any nonwhite sheep

[neon glen]

Well I managed to knock off two duo boons in one run off the list but while I was fighting Chronos the game crashed

[plain fossil]

@bleak night when ur next up for a meme run u should try finish a run with a hex as highest damage dealt

[small wyvern]

You can restore your run if you want, check out #h2-tech-fixes “if you unexpectedly lose progress”

[neon glen]

Oh heck yes if at all possible

[small wyvern]

Make sure to make a backup before tampering with the saves 👍

[neon glen]

Ah, nevermind, I closed the game before I moved over here to post

[small wyvern]

I think it’s still possible? I don’t remember I haven’t crashed

[neon glen]

Okay heck yeah the save was still available in the temp file, good thing I didn't leave the starting room when I booted the game back up or I'm betting it would've been overwritten

[timber pawn]

This sounds like pain

[neon glen]

alright it happened again and I'm thinking- this is just a theory but one of the duo boons I have is the one that makes a ball of water follow you around, and the game crashed when one of the clocks in the second phase died. I think the problem is that the game tries to freeze the ball when the time sphere thing goes off, but it kinda freaks out and fails

[past salmon]

Probably beam or smth right
I think beam with max upgrades probably does the most damage?

[plain fossil]

So do all of mynt's ideas

I figured what's one more right

[timber pawn]

That one sounds worse lol

[small wyvern]

If you have transmit data on, the crash report should be sent to supergiant automatically

[plain fossil]

I would think so, nuke takes too much mana

[small wyvern]

But feel free to restore your save and send an F10 bug report of it

[neon glen]

Yep looks like I do have it on

Killing grandad without sprinting was oddly difficult but y'know it made for an interesting challenge

[wise nest]

Tried Eos for the first time

I understand why people like it lmao
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1004618422094667777/1246651391968280606/image.png?ex=665d2a15&is=665bd895&hm=900d31e53cf8c3768f865faaae778399dcdca87bf6b057352f0b33ff2e02efaa&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=550&height=309

dying wish and static shock didn't really do anything but it was super funny to watch all the visual effects

[neon glen]

I'd almost say that Eos makes the torch usable, though I will say that Hera builds work pretty well on torch in general

[plain fossil]

Eos is strong

Mel is actually also fine its just ppl need to get used to builds that cant stun

If ur standing still as mel against non boss units ur probably dead

Right now id rather play eos or mel than, for example, any flavour of axe

[sour cape]

Axe is good 😭

[pearl frigate]

Does anyone have any recommended builds for 16 Fear on Eris and maxed upgraded Melinoe axe?

[silent crow]

do u have any tips for it bc i love the aspect but i suck balls at it

[sour cape]

You can always do cast build, Mel axe is kinda weak and uninteresting

Or just good ol Hestia sprint

[silent crow]

16 fear isnt super limiting so you could go for Hell Splitter hamer

just hit things really good

[pearl frigate]

thanks yall

[worthy summit]

I Just tryed Poseidon + Hefy duo on Caronte's axe. (testing if there was anything as good as apolo on this aspect).

It felt SO BAD that i had to kill Cronos by running on him with Hefy's running skill. It was doing way more damage on the explosion, plus had a lower Cooldown.

So yeah, back to Apolo

[summer root]

Treat it like fists from Hades 1

oops wrong ping

[pearl frigate]

It's no problem

[summer root]

@silent crow *

[silent crow]

so i just spam dashes???

[summer root]

Mhm

[silent crow]

huh

[zenith bolt]

the real issue is that geyser ring doesn't benefit from like, anything

afaik it's only affected by global damage boosts

[summer root]

Also make sure you get Born Gain or else it can be a little difficult since Torches dont regen mana during attacks

[worthy summit]

Yeah, i had the "+50% damage on succesfull block" hammer, and it increased the Hefy explosion. Other than that the damage from geyser ring is irrelevant.

[silent crow]

ik born gain is pretty mandatory but ive always struggled with bosses even when i know what im going for

[plain fossil]

If u search triple earth eos i nthis channel theres better ppl than me giving advice on it

[summer root]

It really is just spamming dash with Eos Torches, just try not to get hit too much or go for a tankier build with Aphrodite Healing + Armor

[silent crow]

hm ok

[summer root]

The first time it clicks its like a drug I swear.

[mossy ibex]

whats the best boons and hammers to pair with like
aspect of thanatos

[summer root]

anything that spins + apollo @mossy ibex

[alpine topaz]

on the sister blades, does the aspect of artemis guarantee a parry?

[mossy ibex]

hmm sure

[plain fossil]

It will parry anything that would have hit u during the charge

[summer root]

Aphrodite if you want big number and dont care about your own safety

[alpine topaz]

word

[summer root]

this includes 1hit kill attacks

Artemis goes so hard. 🙏

[plain fossil]

Mynt is the axe player around here he suggests hera for than axe and i do agree with that i think, its god-efficient with born gain and it clears rooms very fast

[summer root]

Oh definitely

Hera + Apollo is addicting on the axe for sure.

< I'm a HUGE fan of extra dose.

So far my favorite weapon I'm addicted to rn is the Aspect of Medea skull with Aphrodite and Collossus Charge

[alpine topaz]

im sorting my arcana cards and im kinda stuck on what to do because i really want the higher chance at the duo boons, but also on the 1 grasp cards are really good and i dont know which one to give up

[silent crow]

higher duo boon chance doesnt matter, vow of forsaking can guarantee the boons you want anyway

the 10% dodge chance from the Messenger on the other hand comes in clutch a lot

[alpine topaz]

what the hell is vow of forsaking

[summer root]

It's from the heat thing you get from beating the game like Hades 1

[plain fossil]

Messenger is insane and duo boon doesnt do anything if u alrdy killed chronos 1 time and can click vow of forsaking

[split igloo]

does anyone have like a consistent strat on minimizing damage from eris in that last phase where she drops in random places and starts rapid firing

[plain fossil]

U can click soot sprint and run in circles she literally cannot damage u lul

[split igloo]

but you do some damage to her at some point right?

or wait

nvm I forgot soot sprint inflicts scorch

[zenith bolt]

use the pillars

[silent crow]

if you have soot sprint run around until she drops in melee range randomly and you can just hit her

[rich bolt]

That small size boon from the surface is really op to me, extra dodge and ms

[tired fulcrum]

If you run behind her fast enough she wont be able to hit you, you want to stay near the pillars in case shes too far to run behind

[past salmon]

Medea is the best aspect ong

[summer root]

real

Aphrodite and Zeus? So many numbers.

[past salmon]

Hera on attack goes crazy aswell

[summer root]

that too

[sour cape]

You can like drop a cast on ger

[tough pasture]

can somebody give me some tips on how to avoid chronos' scythe spin blade? that 1 attack has ended so many freaking runs for me. i understand that attack punishes players who are in the "midrange" but there's no way to avoid it since it's so fast. And this time around, it felt like it started doing a weird one where it expressly goes right and then boomerangs around...

Also, it's irritating that an aspects is weak nonsense without the right hammers. hades 1 was much better in that regard.

aspect of pan ain't all that without hook knives. every other hammer is secondary at best. I literally had 2 other hammers for the special and it was still weak. W-E-A-k.

[sour cape]

Dodge towards him, Pan is fine without Hook knives

The Channel Speed hammers also very strong

[silent crow]

if you want a hammer less gaming experience play torches

[tough pasture]

"fine"

Gotta disagree.

The damage didn't impress.

I had that one and concentrated flurry. Didn't matter. Still got wrecked by chronos in phase 1 because he started spamming the hell out of the scythe beyblade attack. was able to get it phase 2 but the bullshirt orbs got in the way in part 2 of phase 2.

[sour cape]

Torches have good hammer

The 3 Omega special hammer

[sour cape]

Pan even without hook knives is like probably the best damaging weapon in the game

[tough pasture]

does damage scale up well?

[silent crow]

it does enough damage
the upgraded mel and eos aspects at least

[sour cape]

Mel Torches do a lot of dmg but pretty unsafe

[silent crow]

idk about momus i havent used that one but it looks ok

[sour cape]

Eos is good but not really my thing

[tough pasture]

Well then I must suck at hades 2.

I can beat everything except chronos. I'm like 2/37 against him regardless of fear.

[past salmon]

You mean moros I'm assuming?

[silent crow]

oh yeah moros
dammit

[sour cape]

Do you have upgraded arcanas?

[tough pasture]

I do.

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1051942150025269309/1246593984541888625/Hades_II_2024-06-01_15-32-22.mp4?ex=665cf49e&is=665ba31e&hm=0344a85ab6c1404a08c00a9a311514a7471c414096aa3b669facf5ec7b930319& moros gaming. Just get the boons and antler

[alpine topaz]

i havent beat the game yet but i feel like the torches blow

[past salmon]

Also yeah pan definitely doesn't need hook knives
Imo boundless fury is better than hook anyway

[sour cape]

They help a lot! Hmmmm for Pan he can be hard since you cant time slow during Chronos fight, hence why channel speed hammer

Which ones boundless?

[past salmon]

Charge speed

[tough pasture]

that beyblade scythe spin attack is the bane of my existence. that one attack did like 400 points of damage to me on the last run. I lost 5 - count them 5!!!- death defiances in phase 1 to that spin attack and then lost in part 2 of phase 2.

[sour cape]

Torches unfortunately suck before Mel upgrades and the trial build is terrible

[plain fossil]

I dont agree but i do agree boundless is #2 tho

[karmic gust]

wtf just casually iframing instakill

[sour cape]

Yea that ones really strong and helps for mana management too

[past salmon]

Hook probably does more overall dps but boundless is safer and also helps if your mana isn't fantastic aswell

[plain fossil]

Its not ridiculous to put boundless over hook a1 i think even though i wouldnt but a3 hook is muchmuchmuch better so overall i think its hook

[tired fulcrum]

Its a savestate so i get to style without repercussions

[sour cape]

do you have ranged cast? Keep him in cast and just long range snipe him

that way he cant just charge you to death

[tough pasture]

intriguging. I need to do some runs with the torches. that's the weapon I've used the fewest times (like 3 times).

[sour cape]

Like Hades cast or Zeus/Hestia helps a lot

Cast reduces his charge distance dramatically main way he kils you is rushing on top of you and spamming a bunch of attacks

[plain fossil]

I wouldnt be playing the game with moros if ur struggling with frisbee on actual good weapons btw it will just make u sad

[past salmon]

Am I stupid what is a1 and a3

[tough pasture]

interesting you mention that...

I passed on that skill from hades in tartarus. (I wondered if I would regret it. I did...)

So help me understand how cast affects chronos. Does it pin him? Because I've tried a few cast builds and I got the impression that cast did't truly lock him into position like I thought it would...

Then again, perhaps my recollection is muddled by my frustration...

[silent crow]

how does ths work

[plain fossil]

Generally the strat for chronos is to sit in his face with cast up and dodge behind him whenever he does anything

[sour cape]

When he charges, it halves the distance he goes, allows you to space a lot easier

[tired fulcrum]

Zeus special, chain lightning, and master conductor. And antler

[sour cape]

And ranged cast mwans you can apply to him a lot safer

[plain fossil]

Act 1 and 3 idk how else to abbreviate

[past salmon]

Ahh ok lol

[silent crow]

no like the spacing for the explosion s

[tired fulcrum]

Oh idk even

[tough pasture]

I've tried going behind chronos (but without cast), he either spams his scythe beyblade or does his streak/charge with residual sand attack...

So I guess I need the cast?

[silent crow]

bruh
well full zeus build sounds fun ill try it eventually

[past salmon]

I mean honestly just RNG better and get both boundless and hook imo imo

[sour cape]

Also if you take Zeus cast or Apollo, the omega cast will do lots of dmg to him

specially in phase 2 when hes doing insts t kill and he just stands in it

[plain fossil]

Theres 3 ways u die to chronos assuming u arent some potato that eats all the oneshots

1. U eat all frisbees

2. U eat all charges

3. Hourglasses

[tough pasture]

i see...

I've relied heavily on demeter cast...

[tired fulcrum]

If you dash backwards they move a little slower so they can stop on chronos if hes far away enough. If you throw an attack and dash forwards itll have extra momentum and collide with the first attack and stop it. This aspect is kinda big brain but my brain smol

[silent crow]

oh yo what

[sour cape]

Demeter is fine too but the ranged cast I find helps a lot

[plain fossil]

1 u beat as i said, 2 u beat with casts, and 3 is just practice + good build + hourglasses arent that scary on 0 fear

[sour cape]

So I always try to fit in either dad cast, Zeus or Hestia

[silent crow]

do the explosions even scale off of atk boons

[past salmon]

Hourglasses are the actual bane of my existence
4 45F Medea runs now to chronos
4
All of them got screwed by tempus in some way or another

[tough pasture]

After the first few runs (where I learned his move set), it's exclusively the frisbees...

I think my spacing has just been bad against chronos...

It's almost like he waits for me to go to midrange (as I'm trying to go longrange) and then he spams his scythe beyblade...

[tired fulcrum]

I think so

[tough pasture]

Got it.

[sour cape]

I fight him usually long range, kiting him around with casts and ranged hits

[silent crow]

torches aspects are goated damn

[tough pasture]

which one? eos? moros?

[silent crow]

all of them it seems lol

[sour cape]

Axe is the easiest since you can just block the scythe

[tired fulcrum]

Ngl moros kinda gud for erebus. When enemies decide to stay in your attacks at least

[tough pasture]

oh, lol...

[timber pawn]

are the chronos fights pretty drawn out? or relatively quick

[past salmon]

I think moros is very mid honestly but I am a believer

[tough pasture]

the one thing I don't like about torches is that they don't stagger...

[sour cape]

Eos can stagger

[timber pawn]

Moros is the worst of the torches rn for sure

[sour cape]

Sinxe using the attack, Mel can't

[tough pasture]

can it? boon dependent? or does it actually stagger...

[silent crow]

ughh i dont wanna grind for to upgrade the blast damage

[sour cape]

It just staggers

[silent crow]

torch attack staggers, torch special does not.

[sour cape]

Mel torch attack is really bad so never used

[tough pasture]

got it...maybe I need to focus on torch runs.

[tough pasture]

well i'm used to mel aspect on torch...and I was...uh...not impressed.

[silent crow]

yeah u seem like u wanna get away from hammer propaganda so welcome to the torches where most of the hammers suck really bad

[sour cape]

I find Torch pretty unsafe so im not very comfortable at it

[sour cape]

Triple Omega special is really good 👀

[silent crow]

shh that doesnt exist 😼

[tough pasture]

also, not being able to roll daedalus hammers is such nonsense. and i said the same for hades 1.

[sour cape]

Since Torch is practically a melee weapon

[silent crow]

yeah hammers suck

[sour cape]

More melee than axe

[past salmon]

Depends run to run
One of the runs was slow and I died to timer.
Otherwise first phase can be kinda long once you hit 50% health cuz it's just so dangerous since you need to be on top of him all the time to do damage (Medea moment)
Also ige only have grit in two of them so I had to play like uber safe in those

[tired fulcrum]

Its even worse in 2 because of omegas

[silent crow]

and weapon basekits just suck worse in this game

[tired fulcrum]

True

[timber pawn]

I was watching medea speeds to see how they deal with the orbs-around-chronos phases during p1, turns out they just blow him up and he never summons those particular orbs lol

[silent crow]

feels like every weapon is just the spear now
"oh you didnt get flurry jab lol reset" but for every build

[sour cape]

What you mean base kits?

[silent crow]

no hammers

[past salmon]

Yeah unfortunately not super realistic in 45F lol

[sour cape]

I find most weapon base kits to be fine

Since cast is always very playable

[timber pawn]

those phases are...v frustrating lol

[silent crow]

then ur not really using the weapon

[past salmon]

It's impossible to do anything to him until they are gone

[sour cape]

Well yea but you are expected to be using Casts a lot more than in H1

[timber pawn]

have you considered savestating the chronos fight and just grinding it a bit

[sour cape]

where Casts were only limited to certain weapon aspects

[silent crow]

thats true but its still kind of weird that there are 3 staff hammers that double the damage of your moves without a downside

and two of them are mid as hell wtf

[sour cape]

Yea... hammer balance could use some work

[past salmon]

I did
I just can't figure out tempus
Orbs you deal with by kiting him into a wall to get rid of them quickly
But like
Tempus you go around killing obviously
But there is so many
And if you get frozen even once it's just so joever

[timber pawn]

ya for sure, its tough. the first...3-4 should be freeish I guess but after that all hell breaks loose

[silent crow]

even if weapon basekits are ok hammers feel too impactful anyway

[past salmon]

Pretty much

[sour cape]

Dagger and staff hammers could use soem nerfs

[past salmon]

Dagger hammers are just like
All good
Apart from flurry jab ig

[sour cape]

Yea probably Hook Knives and Conc Flurry

[plain fossil]

i would like hammer balance more than i would like the ability to reroll hammers, rerolls are alrdy too strong imo

[sour cape]

would put Pan in a lot less explosive state

[silent crow]

either ones fine for me i just want to not reset runs to this garbage

[past salmon]

Yeah probs this

[plain fossil]

hook knives and probably double moonshot need a whack and theres like 25 hammers across the 5 weapons that i would basically never click

[silent crow]

well there arent many other good options for arcana tbf

[sour cape]

Yea...

[silent crow]

like you have strenmgth and umm

[sour cape]

Big Chop and the mana spending axe hammer arguably makes your build worse

Arcana also need buffs

[silent crow]

well those are really fun

[past salmon]

This is why we should buff artificer in some way ong

[plain fossil]

i mean i would like to click artificer and judgement more, i would like mana and hex arcanas to be good enough to click

[silent crow]

but they suck!

[plain fossil]

i would like probably another 5ish arcanas total

artificer doesnt suck

[sour cape]

Strength is good, the other Arcana just need to get on its level

[plain fossil]

its just not as good as 10 rerolls and 250g so ppl dont click it

[past salmon]

Artificer is good it's just not 6 grasp good

[sour cape]

Id consider Strength over 4 rerolls

and ran Strength for high Fear anyways

[past salmon]

Ive tried artificer a couple times tho
It can help you with onion a bit

[sour cape]

But rerolls more fun 😂

[silent crow]

see the thing is these "fun" hammers existing wouldnt be a problem if you werent forced to take the best hammers all the time to have a functional run

[past salmon]

I mean you aren't really tho

[plain fossil]

oh i dont agree with that take at all

[sour cape]

You arent forced to take hammers but im not gonna take hammers that make my build worse

Like Big chop means a lotta enemies can get hits in

[past salmon]

My recent 40F Medea run was like nearly Hammerless the whole way through lol

[plain fossil]

it leads to this idea of balance where everything has to be pretty much identical or its unbalanced because ppl just gravitate to whats "best"

[sour cape]

and plenty of runs Ive gotten useless hammers

And still done fine

[plain fossil]

but theres a big gap between that and a game where dire candle exists

[past salmon]

Granted Medea is one of the better weapons but on not high fear you definitely don't need the best hammers

[past salmon]

It's so bad it's not even funny 😭

[silent crow]

i wish this thing workewd

[sour cape]

But like some Hammers actively make your build worse and those should be buffed

[plain fossil]

the big chop setup isnt even that bad tbh

theres heaps worse hammers than that

[sour cape]

Makes Icarus trinket like rng 😭😭. Sure love taking that and not being able to Whirlwind anymore

[silent crow]

big chop is so fun tho..

[silent crow]

lmfao that thing is so funny, for real high rollers

[plain fossil]

like theres a staff hammer that gives ur omega special a justframe shot that does like absolutely nothing

[sour cape]

oh yea the refund mana one 💀

Theres a bunch of torch ones that make your special worse 💀

[silent crow]

i dont even know what the timing is on that when i used it

[sour cape]

Likr the one that makes the special end after one hit

[plain fossil]

theres fkin marauder slice the only reason to click that is if ur a pan build and u get it offered with two other attack hammers so that u can turn off all the attack hammers for ur next hammer lmfao

like marauder slice is so horrendous it doesnt even give attack speed why is this even a thing

[silent crow]

i think big chop is one of the better hammers that changes how your weapon works entirely

[silent crow]

wait what is it seriously just hold to attack

[past salmon]

Yeh it's utter garbage lmao

[silent crow]

bro thats a goddamn accessibiltiy setting 😭

[sour cape]

Yea I thouht it made you attack faster

[plain fossil]

also i know nobody else plays zero mana mel torches except me but dont click the one that makes ur special fire straight ahead and delete armour

[silent crow]

doesnt this game have infinite input buffer anyway why does this exist

[sour cape]

Oh yea that one!

[plain fossil]

its ok against the minibosses that u crush anyway but it ruins ur clear

[past salmon]

The only time I've ever clicking Mel torches is to play PINK AURA tbh

[plain fossil]

at least crushing comet while also ruining ur clear triples ur base damage so u can make it do stuff

[sour cape]

I guess its alrite for Moros?

[silent crow]

oo

[sour cape]

Or Eos

[plain fossil]

i have more mel torch runs than any other aspect not close

[past salmon]

That's pretty based

[silent crow]

ya to help with that stupid serpent midboss

[plain fossil]

im a fan of demeter special at high fear over pink aura that setup loses too many DDs in erebus

[past salmon]

What's Ur highest fear with Mel torches?

[plain fossil]

32, im sure i can push to 40 with it im not sure how much higher it can go

[past salmon]

Honestly Mel torches high fear sounds like the same pain that Medea has been lol

[past salmon]

40 is certainly doable
You could probably go a bit further time is probably your biggest problem

[plain fossil]

its good against blue shields bad against suffering2 since u take more hits than other builds

[plain fossil]

na its super fast even if im not fast lmao

u have so much damage and mobility the problem is not standing in dumb stuff and dying

it plays a lot like medea except less insane

[past salmon]

Really? Huh
Probably do 45 then
If I can get so close to 45 with Medea you should be able to get it with Mel torches

[plain fossil]

i think medea is fundamentally better since its SO high damage

[past salmon]

That's true

[plain fossil]

also i dont consider myself mechanically skilled

im like actually 40 irl so im slow and old

so if i can do it then all u ppl with actual twitch reflexes can do it easier

[past salmon]

It's definitely interesting
I might have to do some Mel torch runs at some point then
Dem is definitely probably the way to go with it for 40+

Dem doesn't really work with Medea since you sort of just get hit anyway
So you do dem cast

[plain fossil]

ive been trying zero mana mel torches as well casually

i think it has some potential but i need to fix damage

at least without relying on always hitting crushing comet in a3 if u do that then everything is free

[past salmon]

Easy enough just RNG better 4head

[plain fossil]

but i got so many things i wanna try on the list

[tired fulcrum]

Aint manaless mel torches just aspectless torches

[plain fossil]

i need to figure out this frinos circe interaction it seems bit buggy

[plain fossil]

actually true lul moros is probably technically the better aspect in case i accidentally misclick an attack

[past salmon]

Moros and Eos are probably just both better no lol?

[plain fossil]

yea

but it doesnt matter u dont click attack all run

[tired fulcrum]

I threw a moros 40 and ill never recover

[plain fossil]

Anyway time to go and coldstorage cheese some more

[charred gyro]

hi, new to the game! any quick simple tips on scylla? im kind of concerned her backups seem to take damage but dont have a health bar so im wondering should i care abt them at all or just focus on scylla herself?

[haughty depot]

They share the same health bar

[bleak night]

Not as painful as Cold's throw on a 42 since he forgot to Pencil Meta

[trail wharf]

What are the best builds for highish fear on the torches? I've gone for getting Demeter's Infusion boon twice on 24 fear but it's resulted in me neglecting DPS or being able to kill enemies quick. Tbf I'm still making it to chronos, but never on a lot of health and I keep dying in Phase 2.

[charred gyro]

so i should just attack any of them? if one goes impervious i go attack the next?

[haughty depot]

Yeah

[bleak night]

Pretty much, yeah. It's also a good idea to clump them up and then smack them with whatever AoE you have so it damages all three at once

[bleak night]

In 24, Pink Aura should still work, but apparently Demeter on Special is fairly safer

[haughty depot]

Personally I like focusing on the drummer and sometimes the others come up and eat cleave damage

[plain fossil]

yea ok frinos is just buggy with the circe animal companion buff unless i really dont understand how it works