h2-builds-and-combat

[summer root]

3 times + the cast damage

[sour cape]

Shields really mess you up too cos 2 shields always block either your special or the cast detonation 😭

[wise nest]

I could've sworn omega cast hephaestus doesn't change anything

[summer root]

ill have to try the build out again and see i dont really remember

[wise nest]

I'm like 80% sure but I don't use heph much

[summer root]

Hephaestus is my goat.

[cursive ruin]

I just always use heph cast in its base

Its nice magicless dmg

[wise nest]

I think he's the only god I haven't maxed keepsake on just because I don't really want to push high fear in this game, got that out of my system in the first

[sour cape]

Hephaestus Trusty shield saves me 4 fear from suffering 🙏

[cursive ruin]

Hestia cast is cool too

[wise nest]

Y'know what'd be really funny

[summer root]

Hestia gets dunked on alot but I actually really like her boons.

[wise nest]

hephaestus cast with expanding apollo

[cursive ruin]

Lmao

[wise nest]

She's super good at support, it's just that her damage isn't great

[sour cape]

Wish the aoe were bigger though

[summer root]

Yeah but idk Hestia Torch just feels different

[cursive ruin]

Cant have everything now can we?

[sour cape]

Yea Hestia ranged cast is really good and her dash too

[onyx coral]

i only use hestia in magick/special based builds

[summer root]

Hephaestus Apollo

[sour cape]

Its not Divine Dash but still destroys projectiles on dash

[summer root]

Hestia's dash makes Eris pee her pants

[onyx coral]

hermes dash better imo and doesnt lock a god

[summer root]

you can get both?

[wise nest]

I think the reason scorch <<< hangover is because dionysus doesn't limit the dps

[sour cape]

Yea Scorch needs buffs

[wise nest]

Like you can have 2k scorch but it'll still tick down at the same rate

[cursive ruin]

Im actually confused on how theyre gonna handle athena and ares.. cuz zeus now kinda does what ares does.. and hestia took athenas projectile defense

[sour cape]

Its only good with AQ and then you also need the duo

[summer root]

I think scorch is actually fine the way it is?

[wise nest]

Honestly its scaling is fine, what it needs is a better base

[bleak night]

I honestly think Scorch is very different from Hangover because we'll get it back eventually

[cursive ruin]

I wish something happened when you inflicted scorch equal to an enemys max hp

[sour cape]

40 dps is not great and the boons apply like 15 scorch per hit which also isnt great 😂

Like why is scorch less than Poseidon?

[summer root]

Because you can stack the scorch to make big damage.

[wise nest]

as far as the options around it like the detonation, armor damage, that's fair, but they're both the funny "apply lots of stacks of dot damage" status

[summer root]

Get the 300 boon and just level that up

[cursive ruin]

Like they just start running around without attacking while on fire

[summer root]

big hecking booms all over the battlefield with torches its very fun.

[sour cape]

But Poseidon doing dmg upfront is just strictly better, Hestia should apply more scorch than Poseidon's dmg boons

[wise nest]

^

[bleak night]

I'd like to apply both though

[sour cape]

lvl 1 common Hestia 15 scorch

lvl 1 common Poseidon 20 dmg splash

[wise nest]

It's the fact that poseidon has better aoe AND up front damage AND higher numbers

[sour cape]

should be like 25 scorch

[summer root]

And also you can put down Hestia's cast to get more scorch

[wise nest]

Like why tf

[summer root]

Duo with Hera and you can spam scorch

[cursive ruin]

This is why i think hestia cast is good.. cuz you get scorch without nerfing your builds potential dmg

[sour cape]

Like it seems like it was only balanced for Air Quality

[wise nest]

Yeah funnily enough the strongest build hestia is on is as support for momus poseidon LMAO

[cursive ruin]

As opposed to poseidons cast which is yuck if youre not running charon

[sour cape]

What does Momus want from Hestia?

[summer root]

Nah you can do some crazy stuff with Hestia's duo on daggers

[wise nest]

scorch as a second debuff for origination with slip + the ranged cast

[sour cape]

Thats true Poseidons cast really sucks

[summer root]

Hestia Hera duo*

[wise nest]

sadly it's yuck even on charon, they saw how much of a mistake beowulf was and said never again

[summer root]

Vapor on Momus does go pretty hard.

[sour cape]

Well tbf Poseidons cast is bad mostly because for some reason it doesnt count like any dmg modifier to it

Charons axe detonation dmg doesnt apply, furies dont apply...

[summer root]

Maybe it's a bug?

[sour cape]

Yea

[wise nest]

Should be yeah

Funnily enough the duo boon might actually be a net decrease in damage

[cursive ruin]

Is it considered like a flat dmg addition like how poseidons other boons work?

[summer root]

Which duo?

[sour cape]

Dmg modifiers do apply to flat dmg increases

[wise nest]

the steam one

[summer root]

Really? It melts.

[sour cape]

so idk what it is even

[summer root]

I guess it could lower dps from having to constantly proc it.

[sour cape]

Well generic dmg modifiers, Poseidon Splash counts as its own thing.

So attack and special increases dont affect splash dmg

[cursive ruin]

Wait so if i get poseidon special on pan and then get chaos to buff my specials.. that also affects my poseidon wave dmg?

[wise nest]

I know it for certain is a net decrease in damage on pan but for momus I'm not sure

[sour cape]

No since Poseidon wave is not a special

But Furies and Origination do boost the splash

[cinder path]

so uh.....icarus omega bomb works with each lightning bolt on zeus cast

[spare kite]

if the buff says "deal more dmg"/"enemies take more dmg" then the waves are buffed

[summer root]

this is good to know, thank you

[cursive ruin]

Ahh ok.. and charons passive is cast dmg bonus right?

[sour cape]

Yea

[summer root]

i cant wait to nuke people on olympus with zeus cast

[sour cape]

Does backstab work?

[midnight gate]

Thats insane

[cinder path]

i took it fully expecting it to not work....and then it did

[onyx coral]

I thought charons bread and butter was zues/apollo?

[sour cape]

Yea mostly Apollo

[wise nest]

steam does like 25 per tick I think? Or something like that

[cursive ruin]

Yeah so im thinking that its some bug where poseidon cast dmg is considered as a wave and not as cast dmg.. which is why its not buffed by charon.. then again idk if chaos cast buffs affect it

[spare kite]

only the weapon backstabs, so nah

[wise nest]

And uh... why do 25 per tick when pan could be doing this in one click
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1004618422094667777/1245574722956300350/image.png?ex=66593f5b&is=6657eddb&hm=1204957ae32bdc874b6053949cc1e2fed17bbdea4197ae4512db4bb7fff71aaa&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1123&height=631

[summer root]

I must be having nostalgia from the first time I used it then, I havent really used it since.

gya

Does Poseidon's special get effected by buffs?

[wise nest]

mfw 7.8k

[cursive ruin]

Did you survive?

[sour cape]

I toom out Chronos with no mana on Pan, daggers were still doing like 130 dmg splash per hit 😂

[wise nest]

yep, global damage hits everything and scales better with flat damage

[sour cape]

Any generic dmg inc affects them

[summer root]

I DIDNT KNOW I ASSUMED IT DIDNT BECAUSE OF HIS CAST AAAAA

[sour cape]

So Origination, Furies, Strength

[spare kite]

lmfao your pfp

[wise nest]

broke: oneshot chronos with pan
woke: use ranged cast pan without omega special and slowly toss tracking knives at him

[fringe lichen]

is the hestia mana regen good

[wise nest]

here's the build
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1004618422094667777/1245575150712131615/image.png?ex=66593fc1&is=6657ee41&hm=cd336e9d64ab48fbc4e95d37cf7d74c24cf21a377ab7109aba684fe68c19aba2&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1123&height=631

[summer root]

When you pick up a sacrifice boon from hestia that takes away your mana regen

[wise nest]

yeah it's solid

[summer root]

(i brainlessly did this before)

[sour cape]

Its good, costly though. Hera's is way better

[wise nest]

it's not born gain but it's definitely good

[sour cape]

Yea, prob 2nd best gain

[summer root]

And also Hera's sacrifice from Zeus boons I've done that by accident too

[wise nest]

If you're running frinos, got a lot of hearts, or aphrodite it's actually insane

[sour cape]

Well besides Chaos too

[wise nest]

It just becomes free and riskless

[cursive ruin]

Pretty good if you have health to spare.. tho one thing channeling stops regen boons from acting so if youre using someth like the torches i wouldnt recommend

[sour cape]

Or Poseidon haha yes!

[merry flint]

very good and balanced

[sour cape]

Doubling hearts 👀👀

[fringe lichen]

playing 32 fear, artemis blades, have an option of choosing between blue attack, grey special and purple regen as my first boon. Can also reroll it

[wise nest]

petition for hades 2 mod to replace "double up" with haha yes

[fringe lichen]

got deadalus and hook knives immediately at the start

[sour cape]

Dang shoulda been Pan 😭

[wise nest]

my favorite part of poseidon is that he never actually seems that upset when he's glossed over in trials, he's just a himbo

[sour cape]

Living the dream though 👀

[sour cape]

He does say "You always choose against me!"

[wise nest]

One of his voice lines is literally "You wound me with this betrayal, niece! Not literally, just mentally, you get what I mean"

[fringe lichen]

i guess i can just give up and start with pan since pretty sure hammers dont reroll

[sour cape]

and tbf I do since his feels the easiest

[wise nest]

No thoughts, head empty, only fish

[sour cape]

Poseidon such a mood

Zeus is like the petty snobby uncle

[wise nest]

Hera's easier I think, the lightning only covers a thin line even if the line is long and it isn't fast firing

[summer root]

Oop. Poseidon's a butthead.*

[wise nest]

That's what you get for dissing best uncle frfr

[summer root]

Nuh he disses literally everyone in the game.

[fringe lichen]

im so stupid, i gave up, forgot to change to pan, had hook knives, gave up again, changed to pan and now i dont have hook knives

[sour cape]

Whats wrong eith Poseidon 😔

[summer root]

Even my favorite auntie no one talks bad about Hestia and gets away with it.

[sour cape]

When does he talk bad bout Hestia 👀👀

[summer root]

I swear he does, I'll have to find it.

He talks crap about everyone in the first game too. Disses left and right.

[wise nest]

wait who

[sour cape]

Yea I always try to side against Zeus and Hera 😂

Although Zeus's is actually hard 💀💀

[summer root]

Poseidon talks crap about everyone if thats what you're asking @wise nest

[wise nest]

I don't side against hera because I dislike her, she's actually a nice lady 😭

[summer root]

if you side with Zeus....

[wise nest]

Yeah but it's in that funky conspiracy theory uncle way 😭

[sour cape]

Remember when she was like upset at Mel giving her nectar?

[summer root]

I DONT LIKE IT

[fringe lichen]

does anyone know the criteria for if the hammer in the first chamber (if you have it) changes if you give up?

[summer root]

LEAVE MY AUNTIE ALONE!!!!

[sour cape]

Poseidon muscled and bubbly himbo

[wise nest]

yeah but there's no real malice, he's giving everyone grief and when they give it back he's pretty chill about it

[summer root]

he is attractive that i cant argue

[cursive ruin]

Im not ur queen dear dont be silly. - based hera

[summer root]

^ so real

[wise nest]

It's very frat boy and I get it can be offputting but the difference is he's in good fun while most other olympians are making snide jabs

Poseidon just elbows you in the rib and grins when you do it back

[summer root]

ill have to think about that context

then again im like, silly so it goes over my head alot

[wise nest]

Yeah like I get why you wouldn't like it but by comparison he's pretty chill

[sour cape]

Apollos my fav, hes first god Mel gets and "I'll light your way down, Sunshine" 🥹

[fringe lichen]

help pls

[summer root]

apollo is hot. that's all ill say about him 😩

[sour cape]

And then drops an orbital laser 👀👀

[summer root]

thx apollo i love you

[cursive ruin]

I wish there was a god that made puns.. hed prolly make light of apollos capabilities

[sour cape]

Because he's the sun

[summer root]

chronos jpeg

[proven orbit]

So, poseidon?

[celest swallow]

i feel like Momus would approve

[wise nest]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/560565752084561932/1245742811320680459/image.png?ex=6659dbe7&is=66588a67&hm=3ab1ef53bfb425bcc1864a5da4daa25b51a4dc6c9c29d4594a738ee75a8ca7bc&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=367&height=585

[vapid hatch]

ok, just got it again, I think the yarn from well of charon might increase the chance too (since I am now pretty certain that barren = heroic blessing)

[celest swallow]

and then makes sure to tell her later, "hey i hope you don't think i'm teasing you when i'm calling you sunshine, cos i very much am being sincere" 🥹

[wise nest]

Behold, Hades 1 how-chill-is-a-god tierlist

[summer root]

I actually like Demeter, mainly design wise

Oh how chill they are, gotchya. Yeah no Demeter has 0 chill

[sour cape]

Oh yea Demeter def has fav grandchildren

[cursive ruin]

Nah how is dio not a homie.. hes THE homie

[summer root]

remember when Chaos called Melinoe boring?

[celest swallow]

Demeter has favorite everything and most things and people are not on the list

[sour cape]

Shes so much nicer to Mel than Zag

[celest swallow]

(she's my hero)

[sour cape]

Yea Chaos liked Zag better

Mels too neat and orderly

[summer root]

"you had a brother who was really dope, crazy how siblings can be so different."

[cursive ruin]

Well artemis seems to like mel better soo..

[summer root]

im so happy artemis is smiling in this game dude

[wise nest]

Artemis and Athena have a stronger connection with Zag, and Dio is more jealous/annoyed than Poseidon when you side against him

[summer root]

artemis' joy brings me joy

[sour cape]

Yea Artemis as well since Moon sister

[celest swallow]

Artemis for sure is closer and comfier with Mel

she appreciates Zag but Mel is straight up a sister to her

[sour cape]

Artemis also more comfortable fighting than giving out boons

[cursive ruin]

Yeah cuz thats not cool man

[wise nest]

100% but even with Zag they had a bond as far as being the outcasts

[celest swallow]

oh for sure, sorry i thought this was chiming in re: various people preferring Mel vs. Zag lol

[summer root]

Dio is also the god of madness so....

[wise nest]

Fair dw, I made the tierlist as far as their interactions w zag since it's hades 1

[cursive ruin]

Im sure he will get along swimmingly with melinoe

[sour cape]

I wonder what Athena would think of Mel

[wise nest]

I'm doing hades 2 rn

[summer root]

my theory is that Dio ends up a boss fight

Idk why I just feel it in my tummy.

[cursive ruin]

My theory is hes busy planning the celebration feast when olympus wins

[summer root]

Or that too.

[wise nest]

Tons of respect and she'd feel familial warmth, she's like that with Zag too. It starts as a pragmatic choice on her part but she comes to respect him and appreciate him as family so she def would with Mel

[cursive ruin]

And he will appear as an npc in olympus like echo for the underworld

[summer root]

But I feel like they'd do SOMETHING with his Madness aspect

[sour cape]

Mel is on great terms with Arachne though 💀

[summer root]

^^^^^^^^

[sour cape]

And uhh one of Athenas pettier dealings

[cursive ruin]

Gonna be awkward bringing athena boons to arachne.. or wearing arachnes armour when getting athena boons

[sour cape]

Yea....

[cursive ruin]

I hope athena reconciles with arachne

[summer root]

"Oh this? Dont worry about it. "

[sour cape]

[cursive ruin]

Idk how itd happen but i hope it does

Like athena says "Im sorry for that. I can change you back if you want."

And arachne is like "No ive come to appreciate the benefits of being a spider"

[sour cape]

I feel like they setting up something more with Arachne, since Mel asks if they can undo the curse to Hecate and she's very fast to change the subject

[celest swallow]

Mel bout to hit Athena with her bluntness and sense of justice and risk losing her boons for her beloved spidergal

[summer root]

Mel about to get humbled by Athena

[wise nest]

Tbf depending on how they do the story, Arachne could've been an ass when she got turned into a spider

[sour cape]

Love to see Arachne dresses 😎

[cursive ruin]

Ahh yes, the sisyphus route

[sour cape]

Well she was but her weaving was better 💀

[celest swallow]

drifting into #h2-story-discussion for sure but honestly in most tellings even if Arachne was super proud and boastful... she just knew her quality and worth and was that girl, she ain't deserve all that

[wise nest]

Athena has def done a lot of unfair stuff but in the Arachne myth, Arachne was boasting about being better than Athena and Athena only punished her when during their contest Arachne made a gross depiction of her family

[wise nest]

The thing I just said is more often the reason Athena punished her but you def know part of her was being a sore loser yeah

[cinder path]

arachne was boasting but she also backed it up

[wise nest]

Yeah, people can change and grow who would've thought

Sisyphus my goat Bouldy my goat 🙏

[sour cape]

Yea Arachne was boasting about her weaving and Athena was like let's compare who's better at throwing hands 😠

[wise nest]

Ok Hades 2 chill god tierlist 4th tier is totally objective and fair btwhttps://media.discordapp.net/attachments/560565752084561932/1245745281593511997/image.png?ex=6659de33&is=66588cb3&hm=adab4ff029444ce0a2718b303dfbb730d2f4f090d358f663e0cb3611a76fd0a3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=309&height=586

[sour cape]

Apollos a real.one 😭

[civic ocean]

Oh u like throwimg hands? Have 8

[wise nest]

He's chill but he gets more jealous than Poseidon and Hestia

[cursive ruin]

Regarding the bottom tier, idk if theres supposed to be comma between man and who.. but it makes me not wanna share my opinion

[summer root]

Noticed there's someone missing on these lists.

2 someone's actually

[civic ocean]

Yeah its me

[summer root]

Hades and Charon

[wise nest]

Hestia is on the Athena vibe where she's not even genuinely upset and only attacks you because it's routine

[wise nest]

Template didn't have them 😔

[summer root]

[wise nest]

Charon is S+++ in both games, homie is a goat through and through

We stan our loyal shopkeeping king

[summer root]

charon the realest

[cursive ruin]

Imagine there was a god that just didnt attack you when you chose against them in a trial.. but they actually stop giving you their boons for the rest of the run

God of passive aggressiveness

[wise nest]

You're right I fixed it
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/560565752084561932/1245747105092599818/image.png?ex=6659dfe6&is=66588e66&hm=d8efb52bc8ef24230ce9eebb0855352bfc47f9dc8f71edcadd439ebde65480e7&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=559&height=159

[summer root]

[cursive ruin]

I love medeas voice and sprite

[wise nest]

Thank you for the input the tierlist is now objective and correct 100%

[summer root]

her theme is a banger too

[cursive ruin]

True that

[wise nest]

Oh right the template has icarus/circe too

[summer root]

I know where to put icarus

[wise nest]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/560565752084561932/1245747523155656795/image.png?ex=6659e04a&is=66588eca&hm=a24cc62ae0974b5b429077dd103b2ed22743287813fee7590e95c21fa6cf57df&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=999&height=334

[summer root]

YES

[vapid hatch]

HAHA

[wise nest]

Mel and Art would die for each other but Mel literally almost died for Icarus LMAO

The funniest part is that she literally blasted her arm trying to ressurect him but her parents are able to just go "yeah let that girl come back to life" with Eurydice

[vale shard]

absolutely worth it

[glacial pike]

The actual real one is charon

[cursive oyster]

i have decided torch is actually quite good

[vale shard]

welcome to the club

[cursive oyster]

seeing 9000 damage on screen with a pink aura run was life changing

[fervent geyser]

I want to build an omega attack build with aspect of Persephone, is something like Poseidon or something like Aphrodite better on the attack?

[proven orbit]

Skull has high base damage so poseidon with flat seems pretty weak there

[cursive oyster]

apollo? maybe hera, idk

[tall notch]

I think Mel aspect works better for omega attack skull. +Power will let you scale better than a tiny bit of omega damage

[celest swallow]

agreed, and yeah probably apollo or hera depending on if you want bigger AoE per shot or one of your origination triggers to go with your % increase

demeter would also be good

[onyx coral]

How does Hera's familty trade work? You sacrifice the boon and then get it back at an increased rarity?

[celest swallow]

it improves the strength of what you get from future sacrifice boons and queues one up for you when possible on your next boon, sacrifice boons are the ones where you're offered a higher-tier replacement for the same slot of a boon you already have

[onyx coral]

ahh, thanks for the clarification

[brave owl]

hello, frens

[proven orbit]

How many sacrifice boons are in the game? All I remember is Burnt Offering, and King's/Queen's Ransom

[glossy rivet]

i think sacrifice boons also count those trade-ups for core boons? like X flourish -> Y flourish
family trade makes it so the next Y flourish offered has more poms to it on top of the usual higher rarity being offered

[proven orbit]

Ahhh, that would explain it

Yeah that sounds decently helpful then, especially if it actually forces a trade e.g. on attack

[glossy rivet]

say i got a blue poseidon attack lv.1
no family trade i could be offered lets say hera attack thats purple
but with family trade its gonna be purple and like lv.4 or however much the family trade's rarity gives extra poms

[proven orbit]

Assuming the chosen god's pool still has it, of course

[proven orbit]

Ye

[glossy rivet]

and yeah the core needs to be not forsaken to be offered

[celest swallow]

yep like Hrodreptus said, it's the trade up ones

[proven orbit]

That interaction does make sense in hindsight, I just didn't expect it since it doesn't explicitly say sacrifice despite basically following the rules

Or maybe it does and I turned a blind eye to it since H1

[spare kite]

they didn't have names in H1
people just said swaps

[civic ocean]

There are some pretty niche uses for it that can be pretty powerful

Like let's say I want Torrential Downpour on Charon Axe. I take Solar Ring from Apollo. That means I can only take Tranquil Gain or Frigid Sprint to get the duo. Tranquil Gain is offered to me so I take it.

Now I can go Hera, and as long as I don't banish Born Gain and get rid of my other core Hera boons, I should be offered Born Gain for Tranquil Gain fairly regularly with Family Trade.

[proven orbit]

Pencil meta evolves into spreadsheet meta

[timber pawn]

If you manage to roll rocket bombard and shotgun hammer persephone wins, but that's a big high roll

[glossy rivet]

are there like websites with ppl writing down their builds lol
i only know of East's google spreadsheet gna try snorlax staff lol

[timber pawn]

Not really yet.

[glossy rivet]

mel staff only affects omega speed right? any normal attack spam builds shouldn't really have any aspect dependencies right?

gonna try snorlax staff on momus maybe i can use the omega special heals lol

[celest swallow]

yeah, no staff aspect impacts normal attack at all

[proven orbit]

momus gives -100% damage on normal attacks, of course

[gusty ermine]

Thx to you and the others here. Finally I understand that boon.

[sand latch]

When you get % boosts to cast damage, what does that boost? I assume omega damage, but does it also boost the damage of boons relating to the cast?

[glossy rivet]

momus unbound my attack and the ability to hold down attack/special for omegas

[opal saffron]

Technically Circe grants some magick regen eventually ? But I dont know what kind of attack only build would want magick

[glossy rivet]

what are good gods to go with aphro atk artemis dagger?

tempted to go apollo again instead for his legendary tho

[timber pawn]

Apollo for backstab and stuff is solid

[glossy rivet]

explosive attack w apollo legendary felt so good

single omega attack, it empties a wretched thug's armor then health in one pass each

aphrollo daggers

hestia could be a good 3rd god maybe for her infusion
or hera for born gain lul spam that omega

[proven orbit]

Well, the obvious choice would be attack + omega attack, but that begs a question of why the gain boon you chose doesn't handle that enough to go purely omega

[timber pawn]

I always want born gain on Artemis tbh

[proven orbit]

Sometimes I really wish there were easier ways to sink magick into damage tbh

[timber pawn]

Ya the mana portion of circe ends up being inconsequential a lot of the time

[proven orbit]

It gets a bit tiring to charge up a full second omega to spend 10 magick or smth

[proven orbit]

Maybe we are all spoiled by born gain and chaos gain...

[glossy rivet]

momus and born gain are like, the two biggest nails sticking out for the nerf hammer right

[proven orbit]

I would say so, although it is unclear if it's born gain being op or everything else being meh

I definitely lean towards the former though

[opal saffron]

Agreed

[proven orbit]

You don't exactly have to manage magick once you get born gain, and that doesn't seem like deliberate design

[timber pawn]

There are some build that work quite well without born gain but a lot more feel mandatory, ya

[opal saffron]

What if born gain primed a % of your max magick ?

[vale shard]

Yah once you acquire born gain tou complete forget about magick as a concept which I don't think should be a thing

[timber pawn]

I imagine it'll see something but unclear what

[proven orbit]

some builds are strictly better with a vow of 0% magick

[glossy rivet]

what are things that look like they most need a buff hammer instead? ionic gain sounds painful

[proven orbit]

ionic gain is good on lower fear when you don't prime 200% of your mana bar with arrogance

[opal saffron]

Scorch needs help as well and some of hephaestus's boons

I would also like to see the blitz animation time shortened a bit

[proven orbit]

Yeah, scorch and blitz seem undertuned a lot

[glossy rivet]

easy fix for zeus is to bring back jolted

[opal saffron]

Ive had blitz work really well with the duo boon that makes it trigger with bonus damage when you dash/sprint into the enemy, but otherwise its really bad as a standalone

[proven orbit]

scorch works well with an air fryer and with a bugged duo that applies like 90 scorch 4 times a second when charging omegas

[opal saffron]

Scorch only builds feel like they rely ENTIRELY on getting a good rarity / level of the boon that makes it explode every 300 stack which is really not fun

Either you get it and its great or you dont and its terrible

Rn the main purpose of scorch is just to trigger privileged status

[proven orbit]

blitz does it better tbh

[timber pawn]

Blitz and medea are good friends

[proven orbit]

Elaborate

[timber pawn]

Medea aspect order of operations is load attack, deliver attack via special dash attack, right.

*more to come

[opal saffron]

Oh yeah Ive seen a sub 7 run using blitz on medea it was wild

[timber pawn]

So with blitz on special, blitz actually applies before the attacks hit. So blitz gets applied and popped almost immediately

[proven orbit]

Oh, you meant the aspect, I thought you meant the encounter

[timber pawn]

Oh haha, ya sorry, aspect

[proven orbit]

Ye that makes perfect sense then

That's what I liked on moros torch special as well, kind of, you apply and then keep blasting

[timber pawn]

I was just thinking about this yesterday, ya

Similar setup with melee moros might do quite well

[glossy rivet]

is it just me or torch attacks look like mel is riding an invisible unicycle

[proven orbit]

Really ought to try and theorycraft that weapon because it feels the most up my valley out of torches, and I want torches to work out 😅

[timber pawn]

I think if moros had like, a few extra seconds of omega special length, like Mel torches has now, it could be really good

Because that melee playstyle felt intuitive but I found myself having to recast omega special too often and it was clunky

[glossy rivet]

moros torches making the honk sound makes it feel even more clownish
the only torch i really like rn is Eos OAtk spam with born gain

[proven orbit]

Could very well be

think I'm gonna make that my canon for now

[timber pawn]

I can see the YouTube thumbnails now

[glossy rivet]

moros torch honking invisible unicycle mf

[proven orbit]

If I ever submit moros 40+f I will make sure to include a clown emoji in the video name

[glossy rivet]

clown melinoe

[proven orbit]

blessing of strife except blessing of honk

Can't seem to find any overly important duos for either zeus or aphrodite. Am I overlooking something or Moros aspect is just that agnostic to stuff offered?

I guess romantic spark could be neat if it works on dash

There really needs to be better phrasing, because e.g. both Apollo and Hera sprint boons state "your Sprint", but Apollo works on dashes and Hera takes like 2 seconds of sprinting

[broken pier]

WOOOO i did it! castless 24 torches !!! nightmare complete, now I get to start practicing 32 runs!

[knotty fulcrum]

so I want to do a 32 fear skull. What's the way to go? persephone omega spam?

[celest swallow]

whichever one you feel comfiest with is probably what you'll do best with

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah idk I didn't really play skull too much

ig I'll try with medea since that one seems the most fun but kinda risky

[proven orbit]

melinoe skull is the most straightforward, you just pew into things close up until they are dead

[knotty fulcrum]

oh yeah for melinoe does the hammer that shoots all shells at once work? Had that in a run and seemed like it didn't work

[proven orbit]

It's an anti-synergy sadly

[celest swallow]

mel: good for normal attacks or for artillery style omega attacks

persephone: good for omegas in general, not as good at omega attacks as mel but the best at omega special

medea: did you like both beowulf and the fists from H1? then ooh boy do i have a fun proposition for ya

[proven orbit]

Instead of your skulls being 0-1-2 times empowered, you get 0-0-0

[broken pier]

it's weird on medea you just prime all ur skulls at once lol

nonbo with with melinoe since it snapshots the number of skulls missing on attack, not impact

[knotty fulcrum]

the fists for medea? seems to me it's beowolf without blocking

[celest swallow]

because of the lack of blocking, it's very much reminiscent of fists where you have to stay hitting them in melee and dodging constantly to stay alive

[knotty fulcrum]

I don't think that's true the nomber of skulls on impact matters I think. when you shoot all 3 fast from far away they deal the same damage

[proven orbit]

the fist part is rapidly "dashing" without any other protection iirc

[cursive oyster]

specially me fists where all you do is dash

[timber pawn]

Ya same basic principle as medea here imo, blitz to constantly apply via omega special, and high damage aphro attack, that simple I think

[proven orbit]

That did seem to be the case without the hammer, but with the hammer it's weirdly locked in

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah ok have to remember to not take that one then

[knotty fulcrum]

ah ok makes sence

[celest swallow]

basically constant loop of load attack -> special -> dodge -> repeat

[proven orbit]

+2 skulls one at least is game winning with mel

[broken pier]

+2 w auto-reload on Mel feels so good

[celest swallow]

thus works really nicely with passion dash for some extra damage on all the spammed dodges

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah for sure but how many times will you get both:)))

[proven orbit]

0 if you look for it, that's for sure

[knotty fulcrum]

out of context but does static shock work with zeus' cast?

[broken pier]

Whenever I need a doublehammer for a build I get the boon that cuts health mana and gold and usually end up with a third hammer before the big fight

[proven orbit]

I believe so, but haven't thoroughly checked

It could be only working on weapon/character specific damage and not boon stuff

[knotty fulcrum]

what boon? like how can you get 3rd hammer without echo?

[zenith bolt]

isnt there a specific boon for "your lightning strikes cause chain lightning" or am i tripping

[proven orbit]

Natural Selection I assume

[zenith bolt]

experimental hammer or the anvil

[civic ocean]

It's your strikes not your lightning strikes

[true crypt]

zeus has one that makes your attacks emmit chain lightning in exchange for primed magic

[broken pier]

it's one of the duos, removes options so usually when I get to chronos the 3rd hammer is there

at charon

[civic ocean]

The anvil or a 3rd whole daedalus hammer

[proven orbit]

Closest I see is "blitz strike causes chain lightning"

[broken pier]

anvil is just another hammer right?

like 2x hammers in one

[knotty fulcrum]

Oh I tought there is a fixed number of hammers like in h1. and what duo is that(what gods)?

[proven orbit]

anvil is -1 hammer, then +2

[civic ocean]

No, it subtracts a hammer at random and adds 2 random hammers

[zenith bolt]

that must've been what i was thinking of

kinda sucks that it's blitz-specific but i guess that's fair

[civic ocean]

Fwiw I don't think Static Shock works with Storm Ring

[cursive oyster]

there are

[proven orbit]

Zeus already kinda spams lightning on every interaction like confetti so it'd be a little too good to chain with itself entirely

[zenith bolt]

static shock mentions weapon strikes i think so yeah, feels like intended that storm ring can't do chain lightning

[proven orbit]

Really makes me wish you could put boon combos in training grounds to check interactions by hand instead of waiting/wasting a perfect run

I guess that's what modding would be for, but still

[knotty fulcrum]

are there even mods for that? I tried to find one without succes

[proven orbit]

And I understand why it's not there in original games, because it'd sap magic out of interactions for casual players

[proven orbit]

That's why I said "would", because I assumed it's not made yet

[knotty fulcrum]

doesn't work sadly

[civic ocean]

Narratively the Olympians don't know how to contact the Crossroads so how would you be able to test their boons

[atomic relic]

Hey guys. If I use Arcana cards or Boons with +Special damage, does it affect my special boons (like Wave Flourish), or just the regular white damage? I hope that some of you know this ^^

[proven orbit]

pitch black stone, of course

[tired fulcrum]

Just make it some chaos stone shenanigans

[civic ocean]

weapon damage

[proven orbit]

It doesn't affect effects that are outside of weapon like poseidon waves, so I guess only white damage

Global damage stuff can affect both

Like the furies

[atomic relic]

Aha, thank you. I was thinking that f.i. "The Huntress" Arcana would be great with poseidon special build, but I guess it makes no difference

[proven orbit]

Well, the huntress still gives you just as much damage as it would with another attack boons. Keep in mind most damage sources are additive

[civic ocean]

Also bear in mind that Huntress only increases the non-omega attacks and specials

[atomic relic]

I see, thanks a lot 😄

[onyx coral]

How do you obtain Dark?

[proven orbit]

By chance in chaos gates

[broken pier]

random spawn in chaos

[onyx coral]

using pickaxe?

[knotty fulcrum]

it will be floating there. you will get a dialogue from chaos when you first get it

[proven orbit]

I don't think it has a dedicated tool sadly

[broken pier]

nope, they're just like... floating when they spawn

[knotty fulcrum]

if I have a god's keepsakes and it appears on a door but I enter another door it uses the keepsake right?

[civic ocean]

https://www.silkpillowcase.co.uk/blogs/news/how-to-block-out-light-in-the-bedroom

[civic ocean]

nope

[knotty fulcrum]

I don't mean the rarify ability just that it won't appear as the next god

[civic ocean]

It still biases the doors IIRC

[timber pawn]

The funniest Zeus interaction is the zeus heph duo, because it strips your barriers in boss fights in like 0.25 seconds

[knotty fulcrum]

hm Ig i missed chaos then. But I remember that I skipped it in a run and it didn't appear for the rest of the run

[proven orbit]

You made it sound like it deals self-damage 😅

[civic ocean]

if you take off the keepsake it stops, the text will go away so you can know for sure

[analog ether]

Okay, once again attempting a 32 surface run. Changed my setup a little.

Current Fear setup:

Blood 3
Dominance 3
Fury 2
Commotion 2
Scars 3
Destitution 2
Panic
Forsaking
Bitterness
Arrogance 2

[civic ocean]

sheesh we're that scared of Wandering eh

[analog ether]

I had it and Haunting at 1 before

And Rebuke at 1

Didn't have bitterness before

[civic ocean]

I think of Wandering II and Desperation II as basically mandatory

[broken pier]

For surface? timer on surface is completely ass

[analog ether]

I hate Desperation. The feeling of being under a timer just feels too much for me.

[civic ocean]

You should turn on the IGT and see how close you are to 7 minutes anyways

[broken pier]

It takes me longer to do surface runs than kill chronos lol

[analog ether]

Oh, I know I go well over it.

[civic ocean]

It's mostly just learning to pause to make decisions

[proven orbit]

80% of the runs I timeout in erebus, tartarus and ephyra

[merry flint]

that really can't be it

[knotty fulcrum]

what weap?

[proven orbit]

All

[civic ocean]

Yeah I have absolutely no clue how that can be possible like are you doing steam notes with the timer running or what

[knotty fulcrum]

for me I struggle most with the axe. since you channel a lot

[broken pier]

I time out in erebus pretty commonly if im not on axe/daggers, but always kill her before I lose a DD

then I have like 3-4 min left when I kill the sirens lol

[civic ocean]

It's hard to give specific advice but 7 minute timer on erebus is only an issue for me if I get like Selene start into Hammer brick

[proven orbit]

I guess if trying to take a guess on average time across weapons, would be skull (slowest) > torches > axe > blades > staff (fastest)

all for my playstyle, obviously

[broken pier]

my speeds on 24 fear were Daggers > Skull > Axe > Staff > Torches slowest

[merry flint]

i don't play with timer

[knotty fulcrum]

I don't really understand why people say tourches are bad. Eos is like super op imo even tho I don't find it too fun and also mel is quite good but not that easy to not take damage

[proven orbit]

I don't play with vow of desperation rn because hades 2 is a lot slower for me, but I do keep timer on to get a rough guess on how badly things went

[broken pier]

I did my 24 torch on eos like an hour ago after like... 6 tries? But I also don't cast, or dodge really

[merry flint]

well its also gamefeel

[civic ocean]

I think if I had to play without Vow of Wandering or Vow of Desperation on at all Torches would be extremely difficult to win with

[broken pier]

Eos makes me learn to dodge to retrieve ghosts

[timber pawn]

So far my bests at 32 are all in the 16 min range minus persephone which is 14:45. Momus is also an outlier at mid 15s

[proven orbit]

I think they are underrated power-wise, but they have a lot of jank that makes them unsatisfying

[sour cape]

Why extremely difficult 👀

[proven orbit]

Having to take worse vows, I suspect

wandering is basically free fear most of the time I feel

[sour cape]

9 mins is pretty free fear, but 7 and especially 5 mins you gotta rush 👀

[civic ocean]

it's almost 1/3 of the Fear for the entire run. It's either 9 or 6 fear if you do 7 minute timer

[sour cape]

Its 3 fear for 7, 1 for 9

If 9 mins was 3 fear id have it on

But for 1 fear, might as well not bother

[onyx coral]

aside from challenging yourself - is there any p[oint to taking on more vows to complete your testaments?

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1245803706620837908/image.png?ex=665a149d&is=6658c31d&hm=5465076135494844e7852a364677f662d31dfbec6bfc6c19187187d1195109b1& This is the consistent Fear I run across all weapons and will probably also be the same for Surface?

[proven orbit]

You can clear multiple at a time if they are placed chronologically

[sour cape]

yea Desperation is 1 + 2 + 3

[civic ocean]

they're also playing without Wandering

[sour cape]

No wandering is 👀👀

Its not too hard for 3 fear

[civic ocean]

Above is 22 out of 32 Fear and it doesn't increase the number of enemies, their damage, or their survivability at all

[tired fulcrum]

Just dont get hippos

[mystic whale]

Hi all! We have added the for easier discussion use. Happy -ing~!

[sour cape]

True, Hippos big threat in Erebus

[proven orbit]

I have very similar 16 fear loadout right now, haha

[merry flint]

deez nuts

[sour cape]

omega?

[proven orbit]

it is missing timer and convenience fee atm

[mystic whale]

incorrect!

[sour cape]

Do you think this channel could allow images? Would be nice to share screenshots without needing imgur

[civic ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEM6XdrWEMw

[merry flint]

athena isn't in the game yet she can't kill me

[proven orbit]

nemesis certainly can, though

[mystic whale]

We've considered that Arya, but unfortunately we already manage to have 1-2 weekly occurences of people abusing it in the channels where it's available, so we're going to keep the image linking for the extra layer of spam protection.

[sour cape]

I see I see

[mystic whale]

I missed it but this included a naked woman gif As Of This Morning 🙈

[merry flint]

its fine, i'm used to it from years ago

[knotty fulcrum]

am I the only one who can't apply curse effects to chronos at the beggeing of the fight?

[timber pawn]

A shame people can't behave, we can work around it though

[mystic whale]

So, we have to stay vigilant still

[merry flint]

Dyno's pretty handy as a catch all image dump

[sour cape]

Alrite that makes sense

[mystic whale]

I will dive back into the Dyno well soon and see if we can make a setting that works for us. 🫡

[sour cape]

I do that but with 30% hp rather than the timer

[civic ocean]

why u fighting gigachads instead of 7 minutes

[sour cape]

Its not too bad, take a bit longer to kill bosses 💀

[civic ocean]

it takes you about 30% longer yeah

[sour cape]

Well they dont hit harder so just matter of time, and then can take the time to do extra rooms and such

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah but killing bosses is easier than clearing rooms fast at least with some builds

[sour cape]

Yea

and less time pressure

I actually trying Vow of Suffering and no dmg inc for 32

[merry flint]

i did max damage max health for 32

[sour cape]

Since if Trusty shield, its negated. And Mourning fields, you can run into a thorn and be set

Max dmg is kind of brutal vs Chronos

[merry flint]

well you see its momus

[sour cape]

Truee

[merry flint]

idk i'd def appreciate some more vows

[sour cape]

Suffering is pretty brutal in Erebus

[merry flint]

and generally toning down bulk in this game/improving dps on other weapons

[sour cape]

but easier later I find, while its opposite for more dmg

[merry flint]

going back to h1 and setting sub 20 times at 32 heat

[sour cape]

Since Oceanus has 1 dmg steam traps and Fields has thorns

[merry flint]

h2 is definitely way slower

[civic ocean]

There's no way they need to add more dps

It's deffo not that much slower I feel

[merry flint]

cast is very polarising in MUs

enemy threats can flip like a switch

[sour cape]

H1 is about dash striking so it felt faster

[merry flint]

there also weren't like 5 waves of enemies

[sour cape]

And timer was easier to deal with but there were also more vows

[merry flint]

h1 room 1 encounter and h2 room 1 encounter

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah h1 rooms were a lot shorter

[merry flint]

difference is huge tbh

[sour cape]

And i dont remember an enemy as good as kiting as Hippos

they just dodging knives constantly

[spare kite]

Curb your asphodel

[merry flint]

asphodel enemies bouncing around that much is definitely something though

[tired fulcrum]

Fo2 aspho enemies literally jump across the screen in half a millisecond

[sour cape]

Oh yea true the bombers very annoying too

[merry flint]

its definitely a case of 'why are you running. WHY ARE YOU RUNNING'

[civic ocean]

We can play faster for sure

[sour cape]

But Zag was also faster

to chase them down

[analog ether]

Gods, I hate that enemies can hide behind foreground art

[true crypt]

i struggle so much every time i get sent to asphodel, it's bananas

[merry flint]

Asphodel was easy for me

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1245807522758000711/image.png?ex=665a182b&is=6658c6ab&hm=53a397556149209902ee907493d1567cdd68ce08349d4e1b54ef3286c1a7fd40& Here's 32 fear Mel Torches which is currently b2b winstreaking

[sour cape]

Asphodel enemies are such pain

5 min torches 👀👀

[analog ether]

Lost one of my DDs because of an invisible bomb sheep

[timber pawn]

Thats a lot of extra chronos hp. And you can still get out of erebus?

[sour cape]

Yea why taking hp over shields for torch?

Torch hit fast right?

[timber pawn]

Shields is just way more brutal than it looks on the surfave

Was kinda the same in h1

[sour cape]

I guess its diff between boss vs mobbing

[civic ocean]

Unless I'm blacking out and lying on my spreadsheet and the streams are fabricated yes

[sour cape]

Shields def brutal vs swarms of small enemies

[timber pawn]

Fair lol, wasn't doubting you, just surprised that setup is so comfy

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah for mobs shields are gunna take a lot more hits than the extra hp. Also thats cp3 so its 3 heat

[timber pawn]

Maybe I'll try it out

[merry flint]

mass hysteria

[civic ocean]

each hit of an Aphrodite Omega special from Mel Torches is about 40-50 damage

For every enemy in Erebus that isn't the centaur sharks, hippos, or big shades, shields would represent something like 80% to 150% of their HP on Dominance 3

[tired fulcrum]

idk how ppl play mel torches do you use timeslow arcana

[civic ocean]

of course

[proven orbit]

Seems pretty obligatory (and then you cry yourself to sleep on chronos)

[merry flint]

torches suck obv this is real and true

[tired fulcrum]

Surely theyll add a channel speed arcana soon tm right

[pastel elm]

i just ignore the special kekw

[civic ocean]

Mel Torches you just channel them like 4-5 times then run in and kill everything

[sour cape]

I see, why do Mel Torches go Aphro and not Poseidon?

Poseidon adding like the extra splash is about as good as the dmg % increase 🤔

But splash and break shields

[proven orbit]

probably not to knock enemies out of range with 1000 splashes

[sour cape]

Hmmm yea thats true since gotta stick close

[civic ocean]

https://clips.twitch.tv/CharmingTrappedScallionPartyTime-lv5-EYPeeHjA1-EX this is like the worst run I've ever been on that won and I'm playing pretty badly but it's a decent example of how to clear mobs with Mel Torches

[slate pecan]

yeah 😄

that tartarus though, i knew that if i lose a defiance there and dont go back to white antler range somehow i stand no chance

[tall notch]

Pink aura???

[civic ocean]

I always play pink aura mel torches it feels good

"the game is too slow there's not enough damage in the game!" I'm running through Dom 3 Com 3 Tart rooms in like 20 seconds with Mel Torches on the reg

[wild pine]

Strictly speaking I would say that the Circe aspect improves standard attack (by stacking charges on them). But in practice Circe is so bad that I'd probably take one of the other aspects even when planning to spam normals.

[celest swallow]

demeter is also fairly solid for mel torch special, less dmg boost but more freeze uptime vs relying purely on cast for it/opens up a different cast that you can still stick cyclone on top of

[slate pecan]

i know right! shimmering for the win

[sour cape]

Demeter 🙏

[civic ocean]

I'm sure it's fine but I think this sort of thinking is why people feel like 5-7 minute timers are impossible, even with Origination Demeter is doing way way way way less damage than Aph is in that clip

[slate pecan]

somehow my specials did more dmg than poseidon, shimmering really carried there (bounces don't proc waves i think)

[pseudo pond]

any good artemis build without legendary boons?

[slate pecan]

does double moonshot proc waves on both projectiles?

[celest swallow]

well yeah, i'm not talking about 5-7 min timer, just talking general gameplay

[sour cape]

Yea!

[slate pecan]

i recommend aphrodite attack boon and explosive ambush hammer if you get it

[civic ocean]

That's the context of the conversation that I was responding to.

[celest swallow]

obviously choices narrow the more vows you stack on

[sour cape]

Plus taking Aphro is pretty unsafe looking with no stagger and thats worrying 😭

[pseudo pond]

the base power of artemis feels really high, but I can't find any good build with strong synergy

[celest swallow]

okay, didn't know that and wasn't disputing what you were saying

[slate pecan]

also probably throw in born gain from Hera so you can spam omega attack, or some other gain if you feel it will suffice. Demeter helps a lot too with her freeze cast for example

also i think she has the "your omega attack does more dmg but also costs more mana" boon, which can also be good

[pseudo pond]

will give it a try

[wild pine]

All I want for Moros is some kind of change in the projectile behavior to make your loose attacks more frequently useful and more predictable. Decrease their travel range or give them a very slow homing or let them to stick to enemies on hit or something.

[civic ocean]

https://clips.twitch.tv/ManlyCalmWatercressCmonBruh-cYyHus_1bzh2NbbV does this look unsafe to you

[pseudo pond]

any good duo boon to consider thou?

[sour cape]

I need to try Poseidon Torch, spash knockbacj sounds annoying but at least kinda stagger

[sour cape]

Yea but before you get Apollo duo and everything set up 😭

[slate pecan]

not sure, don't remember, i rarely use duo boons and never aim to get them

[civic ocean]

easy to progress before that because you aren't fighting 35-41 Fear enemies because you're scared of a clock

[sour cape]

I just hate timers in games so I avoid them but even at 26 fear it seems pretty challenging 👀

[pseudo pond]

I see, I saw a video with arphro/apollo duo with apollo legendary, looks strong, but legendary is just unreliable

[civic ocean]

You can make it a bit more reliable if you use your re-rolls and vow of forsaking to your advantage

[rough fjord]

if a run is going to take more than 36 minutes it isn't one id want to see through 😭

[pseudo pond]

did, but I think the base chance is just a bit too low, we don't have any arcana that boosts legendart atm right?

[sour cape]

9 mins is often free but onlu worth 1 fear anyways

[rough fjord]

1 fear isn't nothing!

[civic ocean]

if you don't take anything that can apply Daze (and nothing that applies daze is needed for the duo or legendary) then apollo can only offer you 10 non-legendary/duo boons, and you need three pieces, so you discard 6 and take 3 and you're basically guaranteed the legendary on the 4th apollo boon.

[pseudo pond]

I see, will try it in the next run

[lost shell]

im not going to lie... im not enjoying fear...

[sour cape]

Its not but I just dont like it

Kinda like how some people hate spending hp

[lost shell]

heat was ok, but fear just feels kinda bad ngl

[civic ocean]

go for 10 re-rolls and use the re-rolls to manipulate the miniboss encounters in oceanus and fields to be apollo if you take his keepsake in oceanus or already have him in the pool

[wild pine]

I do think there's not as many fun and interesting fears yet as there were heats, so the average feels a little worse overall. But lots of the effects are literally the same.

[pseudo pond]

👍

[wild pine]

Also Forsaking is very cool, I would want it as an alternate game mode even without fear. Kind of wish you could turn it on before unlocking the fear system, even.

[sour cape]

Forsaking is nice, sometimes buff sometimes really poor

Just wish it kept track of what boons are available still

[wild pine]

nod

[civic ocean]

Pencil meta

[sour cape]

Or allow backing out of purchased boons, 💀, almost lost a run due to buying Zeus Boon and needing to take King's Ransom or Ionic Gain

[civic ocean]

Nah u gotta track that no way the game should do that for you for a VOW

[sour cape]

suffer

[civic ocean]

Like that is the downside of the vow

It's like saying "yeah Panic is nice but I wish it just gave me my mana back after 10 seconds"

Like no these are supposed to have consequences!

[sour cape]

what? Are you fr? Thats not the same thing at all

[civic ocean]

The downside of forsaking is that it can force you into bad choices that is the point of the vow

[sour cape]

Forsaking should have Qol tracking of boons available so you can easily tell whether its worth buying boons

[civic ocean]

Then it just wouldn't be a downside at all!

[sour cape]

For like room boons, sure you should be forced to take them

Still a downside since it makes a boon not a good idea to buy

[ember frigate]

how does ''attack power'' boons work and should i get it?

[sour cape]

dead slot in Charon shop but using a pencil/spreadsheet should not be giving advantages

[spare kite]

Isn't the downside supposed to be that you can miss out pre reqs really
People are just gonna pencil meta this (or screenshots of each boon menu lmfao)

[limpid coral]

Should isaac have an in game wiki? Should slay the spire have an in game codex of all enemy patterns? They don't, but people get the information anyway it just takes longer and is boring

[spare kite]

Pencil meta or not forsaking is kinda just free

[sour cape]

Yea and forsaking means you can miss out pre req or need to gamble rolls

[spare kite]

I'd be down for a forsaking rework tbh

[sour cape]

Being able to undo purchase if you not pencil meta is just qol since its not anymore of an advantage than just tracking which boons you got

[civic ocean]

Yeah it's pretty obviously too player favoured atm

[slate pecan]

what i do is i try to look at offered boons and think what i could want in the future but am not going to pick it just yet then i remember i had that one offered (or reroll, if i really want it for king tide for example and i still have plenty rolls).

[spare kite]

Imagine ME runs in H1 with forsaking lmao

[sour cape]

Or like be able to have a button to see what boons are available

Cos if I knew beforehand only boons are Ionic/Kings Ramsom, never would have bought Zeus in first place

[civic ocean]

I wouldn't really be opposed to the QoL like what die dai said people are just gonna keep track their own way but under no circumstances should you be able to unshoot yourself in the foot if you refuse to keep track

Like that's what the vow does

[slate pecan]

then later when i am about to pick a god and i dont remember too well i try to think if i took many boons from them already and if yes i think if it can be dangerous for me to take them. and it still happens to me that i am forced into something that ruins me sometimes

[sour cape]

Well with QoL, that wouldnt be necessary

[fringe lichen]

is the demeter cast good?

[sour cape]

But if they didnt add it in, thats just a way to solve the issue

[limpid coral]

if there are two or less choices there should just be spare wealth tbh

[slate pecan]

the core one? with freeze? it's good

[sour cape]

Yea or 2 or fewer allow choosing spare wealth

[civic ocean]

Yeah I mean I also intuit it but people will end up reducing it to a spreadsheet or get mad like people did at Localthunk for not precalcing Balatro hands

[rough fjord]

how many times does engraved pin trigger?

[slate pecan]

demeter cast is one of my favourites, especially with builds that don't focus on cast, freeze is just great utility and origination activator

[sour cape]

Yea and needing 3rd party spreadsheets or calc is a silly downside for people who just want to play

[slate pecan]

can happen once per encounter i think (or location, was it?)

[rough fjord]

oh thats quite nice

[civic ocean]

Idk like the point of the Vows is to make the game harder, like I feel an intrinsic part of Forsaking is that it is supposed to mess with your evaluation of god boons

[slate pecan]

it will trigger on your first defiance, giving you a chance to save it, but not on the next ones if you die more than once in same encounter

[sour cape]

It is harder in the sense that suddenly a god boon showing up is not a good result later on in the run

[civic ocean]

If it just tells you everything it's doing it is basically just a player buff for Fear which we don't really want

[sour cape]

But it shouldnt be harder in that "if you didnt keep track, suddenly you brick your build".

Unless its the case of you are forced to take the room

then thats fine

[civic ocean]

Nah I think because the vows are supposed to make it harder for you I'm down with the game making you keep track. Like I'm not super adamant one way or the other but I like the way it is now

[fringe lichen]

trying to play a pan build on the surface
only normal attack hammers

is final slice or skulking slice better?

[sour cape]

I would disagree that 3rd party pencil or spreadsheet tedium adds any relevant difficulty to the game

its just the feels bad kind of difficulty

[civic ocean]

Seemed pretty hard when u clicked on that zeus boon

[slate pecan]

oof that's harsh. there are so many good special hammers.
idk i think i like the backstabs more, the final slice is a bit unreliable and slow to use putting you in danger

[fringe lichen]

or is this down to preference?

[limpid coral]

regardless of whether the difficulty is justified it makes the player feel bad

[sour cape]

Yea and it was just feels bad moment due to not having all the information readily available

It encourages tedium and that should not be in the game

[civic ocean]

Dying to timer also makes players feel bad, you control the fears you run

[wild pine]

There's a very popular slay the spire mod that does this

[limpid coral]

as in the kind of feels bad that is just annoying, as opposed to I played badly oops

i know theres a bestiary yeah

[sour cape]

Imagine if you had a fear where you lose stats but then gain them back for afking for an hour on a boon selection screen.

Would that make the game harder if you choose not to afk? Sure, but is it a reasonable difficulty increase? No not at all.

[civic ocean]

Idk does it not also feel bad when 3 hippos spawn in a room in Erebus

[sour cape]

Yes but thats like a difficulty increase that doesnt encourage tedium

[civic ocean]

Forsaking doesn't encourage tedium at all, you just mentally track what you've taken

[sour cape]

I mean sometimes I stop a run in the middle and come back to it later

either gotta memorize whats taken beforehand or pencil it down, thats tedium

[winter wind]

Skulking if you're not attacking often, Final if you are finishing your combo constantly

[civic ocean]

You don't need to convince me that you take way too long to win runs I feel like that's established

Also if you have to leave mid run you can literally quit there's an autosave

[sour cape]

I take like 30ish mins thats not unreasonable

Yea I do quit, but im not gonna remember what boons are offered when I come back

[limpid coral]

ah yes press the quit to main menu button to store all information about the run to restore when you get back

[civic ocean]

Yeah that's good

[sour cape]

How is that a good thing?

[civic ocean]

If you took the optional difficulty modifier that makes it so you have to keep track of the boons you've been offered and then you don't keep track of the boons you were offered, that's on you

[sour cape]

Its like difficulty in the sense getting sand tossed in your eyes 😂

Well yea because the game should just keep track for you because you could have done so manually

[civic ocean]

You also have to keep track of what enemies' hitboxes are should the game have giant red boxes on everything that can hurt you so you don't have to keep track

[sour cape]

Like whats the reasoning for there to be an advantage using 3rd party software?

[open lotus]

Eris is so cheesable with the Ygnium torches.

[limpid coral]

regardless of whether its a legitimate form of difficulty i wanna play video game and have fun not write stuff down and be bored

[fringe lichen]

is there a baseline healing or is the -healing% vow just disabling healing?

[limpid coral]

haha

[civic ocean]

Then don't take the optional difficulty modifier - seems easy to me

[limpid coral]

sure sure

[sour cape]

But you dont see its an issue when gameplay encourages unfun actions?

[limpid coral]

people click the curse anyway and then do the boring thing, I wonder why

[civic ocean]

Not when they're attached to optional difficulty modifiers, no?

For some people it's "unfun" to try and fight Chronos at 40% faster speed

[sour cape]

Yea because its encouraged, players will always optimize the fun out of games if theres an advantage

[civic ocean]

Like should we just make the timer 15/13/11 because it's "unfun" for people to try and beat surface in 5-7 minutes?

[sour cape]

No, because thats an actual difficulty increase that you cant solve using outside the game resources

[broken pier]

32f is proving to be a LOT harder than 24 lol

[fringe lichen]

+71% rare boons (from chaos) is terrible with vow of arrogance right

[civic ocean]

You absolutely can use a wiki to memorize Chronos' frame data or use Echolocat's spreadsheet to learn how to influence his behavior

[limpid coral]

you probably still want rare boons unless max mana is like super valuable

[slate pecan]

depends. do you use a lot of magick? do you have a lot of max magick? and maybe a good gain (from hera preferably)? it's definitely not great

[celest swallow]

not if you're playing manaless and not relying on huntress (since ending up with 0/0 is considered having 100% of your mana and thus huntress isn't active)

[sour cape]

Thats not the same situation, having that info just means you know how to dodge his attacks better or what windows you have to damage him.

Effectively means you can fight him smoother and more optimally if executed well. That kind of incentive is good.

Forsaking encourages you to screenshot and pencil to keep track of what boons are offered. That's not behavior I'd want to incentivize

[slate pecan]

i think they're playing Pan. Chaos is kind of scary on that aspect early on because almost every curse type hurts in some way

[civic ocean]

All the pencil is doing is giving you info that means you know how make better decisions at boons.

Should Chronos' behaviour and frame data be in the Book of Shadows

[fringe lichen]

like the dumbass i am i lost a death's defiance on room 5

[limpid coral]

why is a boon codex in the game at all

[slate pecan]

happens to the best don't worry. especially on higher heats, but not only

[sour cape]

No, because that would take away from the story lol which should have priority.

[limpid coral]

i'm very curious though about this spreadsheet, haha, got a link?

[civic ocean]

Idk if she has the chronos behaviour data in it yet, she's datamining the game atm

[sour cape]

Yea if pencil is letting you make good decisions, thats fine, but there should be an in game way of tracking that too.

[civic ocean]

Why does there need to be an in-game way to mitigate the downside of Forsaking and literally no other vow in the entire game aside from maybe Panic?

Forsaking is already one of the best fears to take in the game if you just like use your memory or keep track of its downside in some way

Why do we need to make Forsaking more player favoured

[sour cape]

The downside of forsaking should be you miss out on prereqs or are forced to take bad boons if you are forced to take the boon.

Not if you don't use pencil, you forget and potentially brick your build

if its providing too much fear than sure nerf it, thats a separate argument

[civic ocean]

How do you miss out on prereqs with forsaking, did someone just tell you that or

It literally cannot provide you with less fear

[sour cape]

If you going for legendary but multiple of prereqs there

[civic ocean]

1 less fear sorry

[sour cape]

Like going for Poseidon and you see Slip and the wave crash

[civic ocean]

did you throw your re-rolls in the garbage

[sour cape]

Or if you going for Apollo Legendary and Aphro Duo and you see both of them together

[sour cape]

taxes your rerolls then, you cant reroll as aggressively

[civic ocean]

That's actually super easy to deal with too you just go for Aph for the duo

[sour cape]

Since gotta save some for

[civic ocean]

Like almost every single downside to Forsaking in the game is solved by using like 1-2 rerolls and a bit of foresight

Then only one that isn't is you actually have to use that foresight

[sour cape]

Well if you had to reroll a door earlier to avoid picking a god

[civic ocean]

Yeah if you're going to not take 10 rerolls Forsaking is much harder that's the point

Again, you are never FORCED to take Vow of Forsaking, it is supposed to be OPTIONAL and make the game HARDER

[sour cape]

I mean I dont see how this is an argument, forsaking requires you to take rerolls to mitigate its downside, thats a legit cost, we can argue all day whether that cost is balanced but its still a cost

[civic ocean]

Unless your unironic position is that "Vow of Forsaking makes the game too hard and should be made easier for the player" in which case like idk what to tell you

[sour cape]

Its like saying well Suffering is mitigated by Trusty Shield, therefore suffering has no cost

[civic ocean]

Yeah that's probably worth taking a look at, considering that's part of how Bismuth and I are dealing with Fear winstreaks

[sour cape]

I dont think Forsaking should be made easier, it should be made less feels bad

[spare kite]

Forsaking feels boring

[fringe lichen]

2 dd's lost in erebus bruh

[rough fjord]

just had a surface run where i didnt get a single centaur heart the entire run

very fun!

[civic ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DpH-icPpl0

[rough fjord]

i love fighting eris with 90 health

[sour cape]

I think Suffering is fine, requires Hephaestus and if you pick him first, your dmg suffers.

[fringe lichen]

next 3 boons are common for +74% special damage? worth or not?

pan btw

[rough fjord]

yes

[sour cape]

So you gotta pick your poison there

[civic ocean]

Forsaking also requires you to use your memory, and if you don't your build suffers

[sour cape]

More like taxes your print screen

and copy pasting onto a spreadsheet, if you think this is fun gameplay to encourage

Idk what to say

Should we make forsaking harder by disabling print screen in Hades?

[fringe lichen]

i may be tweaking but i kinda feel like artemis is better than pan

[sour cape]

Its like trivial to solve with tedium

[civic ocean]

Here's an example of fun gameplay to encourage, Forsaking BRICKED my Air Fryer build by giving me two sub optimal trades and a third boon that would destroy Air Fryer. https://clips.twitch.tv/ModernTolerantLorisKlappa-J4BFjBoDcNkcXSTL

What do you think I did about it?

[sour cape]

That case is fine, you had no choice but to take that boon and forsaking is working as intended

Now if you had the choice beforehand to choose a diff door but didnt keep track of Hestia... thats when Forsaking is encouraging silly behavior

Of printscreening and looking bacj over to make sure boons left arent like this

[civic ocean]

I also just took Smolder Ring, dealt with it and won the run, which is great - made the build play differently while giving me consequences for taking Forsaking

And I did choose to take Hestia there - I could have re-rolled the door, or took a different path?

It's not an external tool issue - just remember what stuff you took

[sour cape]

Yea in that case either you decided its fine to mess up your build or if you didnt know, it was punishing you for not engaging in tedium

The former is ok, the latter is not

[civic ocean]

I think if you can't keep track of like 3 out of 10 boons that were offered to you, can't or won't, then Vow of Forsaking probably isn't for you

[dusty sapphire]

Can't believe I'm asking this but I'm having real trouble with the Reed Stalker enemies in the Mourning Fields with Vow of Fury. No other enemy other than literally Chronos is giving me nearly as much trouble with the increased speed. Even if I take the Swift Runner I can't outrun the reeds and I take actually hundreds of damage from them. Any tips?

[sour cape]

If I have no rerolls (or would be unwilling to spend them) and forsaking forces me to brick my build, thats intended

If I'm just playing and not knowing whats available, and for that reason brick my build, thats not good

[civic ocean]

If you're not willing to accept the consequences of the vow, don't take the optional vow, is where I think I stand on this

[sour cape]

I mean youd still take it but its major feels bad

[civic ocean]

then you know where that feedback goes and we'll see what they do about it

[civic ocean]

Reed Stalkers don't have too much armor, in Fields I usually find it easiest to rush them down and break the armor so I can stunlock them

[sour cape]

Imagine you had a fear that gives +32 fear, but you have a 1% chance of dying when Chronos reaches 20% hp in phase 2.

You'd be stupid not to take that since its free the majority but thats not a fun fear.

[true crypt]

i mean... isn't this kinda the point. it punishing you for not playing more tactically. isn't that the point of all of the vows

[sour cape]

Not when the not knowing part is fully solved by screenshotting and looking over what boons are available

[civic ocean]

Yeah but that's a frankly silly hypothetical and I'm not going to engage with silly hypotheticals, don't click on Zeus for the 4th time if Ionic Gain is still in the pool and you don't want it

[sour cape]

Yea if I had known the only boons left for Zeus were Ionic gain, I wouldnt have clicked

[civic ocean]

Well, know that next time

[sour cape]

Which I could have known if I engaged in tedium

[civic ocean]

The game presented you with literally all of the information you needed to know this

[sour cape]

Yes and it should just be available before you pick the boon

[civic ocean]

The game shouldn't be your memory for you

[true crypt]

it's knowledge management which is another level of gameplay, i don't think it's out of place. tons of games require knowledge management outside of the game itself for added benefits

[sour cape]

Like "Show available boons"

[sour cape]

I would disagree here

[timber pawn]

Or if not knowledge management, general risk management. 'how good is my build, do I actually need anything else to beat chronos? No?' Don't take additional boons

I've been forsaked on a few 32 runs but that's on me, imo

[civic ocean]

maybe they should add a big flashing sign over zeus that just says WARNING IONIC GAIN STILL IN POOL

[sour cape]

But its not really risk management. If you had knowledge the only boons left are build bricking the play is always not to take the boon.

Specially in the case of Charon shop lol

[civic ocean]

The game has provided you with that knowledge though

[timber pawn]

I mean if you dont know it explicitly is risk management imo

[sour cape]

Should be easier to access

[limpid coral]

why is there a boon codex at all

[sullen canyon]

wat

[timber pawn]

What is the risk I don't kill chronos without another boon vs what is the risk I get a bad boon that bricks my run

[sour cape]

Yea you know how we can make Forsaking even harder? Just get rid of boon codex

[civic ocean]

presumably because some of the boons will be relevant to the completion of the story, like they were in Hades 1?

[sour cape]

If the boons arent listed in game, surely its even harder to keep track, therefore forsaking is worse of a downside?

Is that a good way of increasing difficulty you think?

[civic ocean]

Why doesn't the game list the frame data for all the enemies when you take Fury 1 and 2

[mystic bison]

What is the argument here, that the game shouldn't remind you of which boons you have forsaken?

[civic ocean]

Why doesn't the game list the frame data difference for Swift Runner Arcana or no

[sour cape]

Yws

[mystic bison]

Why shouldn't it?

[sour cape]

I think the game should just tell you what boons are gone/available

[mystic bison]

I agree

[civic ocean]

The argument is that the game forcing you to keep track of which boons you've forsaken is part of the challenge of taking forsaken

[sour cape]

East is arguing it would make Forsaking easier

[onyx coral]

Does the moon arcana card work with charos and zeus/apollo build?

[civic ocean]

yes

[mystic bison]

I disagree, the "challenge" of Forsaking is taking boons out of your pool permanently, not a memory game trying to keep track of everything you've forsaken thus far

[sour cape]

I mean how would you play differently if you know that vs the info provided?

[onyx coral]

Sorry was this in reply to me?

[sour cape]

I honestly would not change how I play at all

[civic ocean]

Arya Stark is essentially arguing that the game should have warned them not to click on a Zeus boon in a charon shop because they didn't keep track of whether or not Ionic Gain was still in the pool

[true crypt]

i'm neutral on the game keeping track of forsaken boons for you, but a gameplay mechanic can have two challenges. that is allowed

[sour cape]

Ionic gain was the only boon left in the pool

It wasnt like I was gambling for a potential good boon and didnt hit it

[lost shell]

ffs fear is not fun at all

[sour cape]

Well besides King's Tribute

[mystic bison]

I think that it would be a fine QoL improvement if the game simply keeps track of what you've forsaken in the boon codex

[sour cape]

So got those 2

[lost shell]

at least heat provided some new stuff... fear is just... bad

[slate pecan]

i'm hoping for extreme measures implementation in hades 2

[sour cape]

It was just a no win situation picking the Zeus boon because of the forced memory game lol

or screenshot meta

Its not like Zeus boon was a door and I had to take it

[civic ocean]

Why click on Zeus then like I feel like a very reasonable thing to do when you have clicked on Zeus at LEAST 3 times, HAVE HERA, and are being offered Zeus in the shop is to go "hmm, I notice that I don't have Ionic Gain. Have I seen it before? Maybe Forsaking might give me bad options here!" Instead of demanding that the developers solve that for you

[mystic bison]

No need for warnings or anything, but if you have doubts about your memory then you can lean on the codex to remind yourself

So it's practically the same as the game keeping track of what duo prerequisites you have

[timber pawn]

Ya moon works with charon, it only affects the explosion of the cast though. Not individual Zeus or Apollo hits

[lost shell]

also, i cant open the boon codex when im picking a boon. tbh thats very bad

[civic ocean]

yeah this will probably get fixed pretty soon

[slate pecan]

some fears also provide new stuff, like revenants, but yeah most of them are copypasted from hades1 or don't change the mechanics much, just boost the numbers. But it's fine, mostly, at least there's a variety

[sour cape]

I thought I had Air Quality still available

But it was forsaken

[onyx coral]

ahh, ok. That's what i was curious about. thanks

[sour cape]

And yea if I screenshotted and lpoked over it, sure thing woulda seen that

[civic ocean]

Listen I am also like not super opposed to QoL changes like the one being proposed but you picking a god thinking you had something available that wasn't because you discarded it with forsaken feels like EXACTLY how the vow is supposed to work

[lost shell]

idk, i find them very punitive in a not fun way. the clock, for example, is the same from h1, but in h1 things were indeed faster, while h2 is slower bc of melione mechanics

[tired fulcrum]

how long yall been arguing about forsaking

[civic ocean]

Does it seem like I have a lot going on atm, Ananas

[sour cape]

Another issue is how terrible Ionic Gain js

leading to this situation

[timber pawn]

It's a different approach but you can still manage a 5 min timer on all weapons

[mystic bison]

The real use of Ionic Gain is picking it so you get a better Gain later via a sacrifice boon

[civic ocean]

How are we going to convince the world that you can in fact play fast in Hades 2

[timber pawn]

I think people just have to kinda find out for themselves on some level

[mystic bison]

I go through Hades 2 now at around the same speed as Hades 1, generally 15-20min

[timber pawn]

Tbf my first run was like 39 minutes, with few meta upgrades. It does start slower, as did h1

[spare kite]

once EM is back so we don't need +hp/+enemies

[sour cape]

True

[timber pawn]

Have you heard of our lord and savior vow of suffering 2 and trusty shield in erebus

[mystic bison]

Yeah my first clear was 40 min I think, but I was still learning at that point

[spare kite]

Yes but I barely touch the pact rn

[sour cape]

Vow of Suffering and Trusty shield is nice 4 fear!

[mystic bison]

Gotta check Hades 1 to see how long my first clear was

[spare kite]

Did 32 grandpa but I'm gonna wait for more surface/fear changes first

[sour cape]

But Hephaestus already is underrated so id be fine with him doing that

[mystic bison]

I do think 5min timer on the surface is nigh impossible though

[timber pawn]

Ya 5 is wonky on surface for sure

[sour cape]

I feeel likee surfacee zones are longer than intended rn since unfinished

[timber pawn]

Some folks have posted like 5 min Eris runs but it's definitely a bit tighter just because of how ephyra works

[true crypt]

the fountain in ephyra should give you another 5 minutes, or top you up at least

[sour cape]

Bats should pause timer

[true crypt]

that too

[sour cape]

idk why it keeps running for no reason 💀

[slate pecan]

ephyra should pause timer in general

[lost shell]

tbh only the first regions are though, they take more time, while the following ones are faster

[timber pawn]

This I definitely agree with. Having to pause buffer the minimap isn't great

[mystic bison]

People have been asking about stopping the timer for the bats, and sure enough I can see that being added next patch

But what if the timer stopped entirely when you are in the city hub?

[sour cape]

I think it should keep running similar to how it does in Mourning fields

running between rooms you want is an optimization

[spare kite]

Also Heracles takes ages to let you speak to him

[mystic bison]

Lmao in my very first Hades run it took me 13 minutes to get to Meg 😂

[spare kite]

Dude takes his sweet time counting his money

[sour cape]

and say you get something in one room that makes you want to pick something else elsewhere

[civic ocean]

Yes, also pro tip if Heracles shows up and he'

s in a room where you choose something. Just wait and he will do his yoga routine in the background

[spare kite]

Same strat as Than? Knew it

[civic ocean]

same with Art iirc

[spare kite]

Isn't arty only on non menus?
Or can she appear at hammers/poms

[astral edge]

she can show up for poms, either that or I was using artificer and forgot

[tired fulcrum]

According to speedcord its only minor finds so no menu

[astral edge]

I guess I was using artificer then

[civic ocean]

yeah you can artifize

does the speedcord have a 32 all weps category yet

[mystic bison]

Artemis appears pretty quickly in my experience so she is no Heracles

[spare kite]

Nem also takes her sweet time in fields in my experience lol, she struggles a lot around the vines blocking the reward

[tired fulcrum]

Sometimes arty is instant sometimes she takes like 5 seconds for some reason

[mystic bison]

Also even if she is non menu maybe you can open the book of shadows and pause the timer that way

For example, Nemesis can snatch things from Charon while you have the book opened

[civic ocean]

can probably do that for heracles too

[spare kite]

Not codex tech again (stupid joke that doesn't work really)

[timber pawn]

There's been some jokes about it but thats it lol. I technically have a submittable 3 wep 32 run, but that's it

[civic ocean]

can u dm me the link and I'll start keeping track, maybe do a run or two per month just for new content

obv the speedcord doesn't care about winstreaks but yeah

[timber pawn]

Sure gimmie a min. I don't remember if I uploaded to my anonymized channel or just the one with my real name on it lol

[civic ocean]

oh I meant to the speedcord

unless its like private or smth

[spare kite]

Pinned in #self-promotion

[timber pawn]

Oh lolol

My bad

[civic ocean]

what would 32 multiwep even look like atm

Posi-Momus, Posi-Pan, Medea for 3 weps?

[spare kite]

Is there any OwO category yet, haven't checked at all how speedruns are going

[civic ocean]

I think I'll just keep trucking along with Snorlax Staff, Psycho Blades, Pink Aura, Money Laundering, and Air Fryer and any time I record at 5 winstreak in a row I'll put it up as a run

[timber pawn]

Ya probably, axe and mel flames are getting quick too

Medea might be prohibitively difficult at 32 to do fast

[mystic bison]

Mate you gotta explain these names I only know Air Fryer and Pink Aura

[timber pawn]

So I could see flames or axe taking that spot

[proven orbit]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/793513270912745541/1245834786061418661/20240530231546_1.jpg?ex=665a318f&is=6658e00f&hm=73a048a80401af2f590c6993c27fca542f55086daffa46b682f6a7d0707a4434&
Hmm, aspect of Moros was pretty sweet. If I got core boons in erebus instead of oceanus, and spent less time unpaused, could have cut a few minutes still
Special is pretty flexible too; if you can channel 2 times, it's near 100% detonation point-blank, but spamming regular special still works plenty and can benefit at range

[civic ocean]

Psycho Blades -> Blood 3 Suffering 2 Desperation 3 blades that goes Shield/Grit/Spiteful or just takes 700 damage in Erebus, going to push Artemis parry as far as I can

Money Laundering - Charon manual Omega Cast build that uses Arctic Ring and Golden rule to deal crazy aoe dmg

Snorlax Staff - staff basic attack build using Mel staff + poseidon waves that's boosted by Healthy appetite

@timber pawn runs local climate and I probably will too but I might also just stand in the middle of the cast lmao

[mystic bison]

Lmao you pull off good dmg on Snorlax?

[timber pawn]

I was talking with someone in the speedcord and they suggested charon runs should all start the same but then if you don't get sudden cleaver you can pivot and go local climate cast

[civic ocean]

One thing that I lose with Local Climate that I like is being able to kill enemies in two parts of the map at once

But it is pretty crazy dmg

[tawny stag]

Guys anyone know why my nightmare did not drop? I killed Eris in the required heat

[split igloo]

just making sure, getting echo actually counts as a chamber skip unlike hades, right?

[wild pine]

Do we know the spawn logic for Selenes? How many can appear by what biome, etc? I can see that you can get a hex in Erebus but no path of stars until Oceanus. I don't think I've ever seen more than 2 total path of stars except via echo, so I'm assuming it is roughly hammer logic, but is that confirmed? Or is it possible to get 3+ natural hex upgrade rooms with aggressive rolling?

[steel sequoia]

i usually think i see more selenes than hammers/hermes if i get an early one, so i tend to dislike her

i want my hammers not bad buffs

normally i see a selene in the first entrace of fields if i dont force i

[civic ocean]

What do you mean?

[split igloo]

I'm asking when I get the echo room, if that means I don't have to do one of the rooms where I actually fight enemies

[civic ocean]

Yeah the exception is Hades but it is technically a "chamber skip" just Tartarus mechanically works differently than the other biomes

[split igloo]

alright

[civic ocean]

In fact I might be wrong but I think Hades is actually bad for speedruns even though he stops the clock? I think he makes the subsequent encounters harder?

[spare kite]

More enemies spawn per detour yeah

[split igloo]

that might not be the case if his "boons" were actually good though

although I know stuff like 50% spawns is good for people who aren't trying to speedrun

[proven orbit]

Vow of revenants

especially with vow of desperation. especially especially when half of your screen is vfx so you don't see where ghost balls went

Straight up stopped having fun

[sour cape]

Wait Hades makes future encounters harder?

[mystic bison]

Yes it counts as if you took any other side room

[mystic bison]

Yep I've seen speedrunners skip it alltogether

[wise nest]

You can, I've gotten full selene upgrades without echo

[light aspen]

i want to try a moros torches run, who should i try for on attack and special?

[timber pawn]

Haven't tested it out myself but I want to say Zeus special and aphro attack or vice versa

[wise nest]

Probably the reverse yeah

But I don't run moros

[timber pawn]

Depends on which of the playstyles you're going for imo, I like the melee-ish approach

Where you keep an omega special spinning and mainly use normal attacks

[wise nest]

Well the special is what's doing the most damage so you'd want that to be getting the high % bonus

[wild pine]

why aphro rather than demeter

or hera

[civic ocean]

Because we want the run to end before 40 minutes

[timber pawn]

Just higher scaling since you're in melee

Dem would be for safety, Hera would be fine and works w born gain so also an option

[civic ocean]

Aph inflicts the "dead" status which is the best status in the game

[wise nest]

Hitch value doesn't make itself as clear until you have vow of commotion on and you're at high heat so you have fo2 on so now everything is fast as hell and spawning in legions

Oh and don't forget revenants

Like yeah you take a hit as far as your boss damage goes but in both games high fear makes regular rooms harder than the bosses