h2-builds-and-combat

[plain fossil]

Gz

[shy summit]

if they let you do all the rooms in ephyra I guess it would be more like tartarus
where the longer you stay the worse it gets

[wise nest]

holy hell medea really is just beowulf at home

[shy summit]

i like it

[bleak night]

You wanna learn some Axe ?

[plain fossil]

I find medea intensely unenjoyable personally but its pretty strong hey

[broken pier]

as long as I dont have to cast at all lol

[bleak night]

oh, Cast is actually kinda important when playing Axe

[plain fossil]

Omg its the refuses to cast guy

[bleak night]

just lay it out with Dem and you're kinda good.

[shy summit]

why would you not want to cast 👀

[plain fossil]

I remember u from this morning

[broken pier]

too many buttons

[shy summit]

the B button is too far away

[bleak night]

huh

[shy summit]

thumb stuck in position

[plain fossil]

This guy needs a medal for doing 24 axe with no cast

[broken pier]

I put it on RT and still use it sometimes, but id rather just be killing than putting down traps

[tall notch]

That's why my cast is rt

[shy summit]

enemies in cast take more damage with the arcana
that's a pretty big mechanic

[broken pier]

lol like i use that

[bleak night]

but the cast helps you kill

[broken pier]

I was getting my unseen and moon arcana clears for the fated prophecy thing making it harder on myself xD

Although I kinda feel like unseen is not bad for the WW axe

[civic ocean]

This is like signing up for cooking lessons and being like "but I don't wanna have to use anything higher than room temperature"

[tall notch]

You should unbind dash too. Lets you turn off swift runner and avoid taking sprint boons

[tired fulcrum]

Placing regular cast takes half a microsecond and you can use it in the middle of most animations

[broken pier]

Lol sir I pour hot coffee into a plastic cup of ice xD

[shy summit]

hey no hate on iced coffee that's not the same thing!

[civic ocean]

foul

[plain fossil]

Hey man my dude here is getting 24f axe clears while making room temperature salad

[civic ocean]

bro is Neo fr

[wise nest]

less of a boost for axe because of how percentages work vs flat damage scaling

[plain fossil]

U guys are all so confused, he is my new god

[broken pier]

Where's my castless vow +3

[shy summit]

that's interesting

[civic ocean]

okay I wanna do Artemis Blood 3 Suffering 3 desp 3

[shy summit]

for the momus builds
+2 fear disable attack lol

[plain fossil]

So the plan is click heph room 1? Lulul

[civic ocean]

I think u start heph yeah

[plain fossil]

I was trolling 😦

[broken pier]

I don't understand why momus is so good, is it the charge heal? or just the fact that double moonshot is op

[shy summit]

this could be an interesting built-in way to do challenge runs

[tall notch]

Just parry it can't be that hard

[civic ocean]

and then you go antler and u just roll with whatever other 2 gods you get and be sick with it

[plain fossil]

U should play more momus sir

[shy summit]

mostly you can upgrade the base damage of the special with it

[plain fossil]

Its so op u dont need to cast

Therefore u will love it

[tall notch]

My 32f arty was blood3 suffering2 but i don't think i maxxed desp?

[shy summit]

and spamming poseidon special is known to be very busted

[broken pier]

not enough aoe for my liking, and the single target dps without doubleshot is poor

[shy summit]

with poseidon it becomes aoe

AND does plenty of extra flat damage

[broken pier]

How to get momus to get 1000 dmg per omega?

[plain fossil]

single target damage is poor

That is certainly a take

[plain fossil]

Momus doesnt use omegas

[broken pier]

Isn't that the whole point, that the omega keeps you from dying?

[shy summit]

people use it with the no healing fear because it's not affected by the heal reduction

[plain fossil]

No, the whole point is that upgrading it lets u delete everything in the game

[tired fulcrum]

Its 40 base damage on a move that you can spam 4x a second. Since its a special instead of attack it gets way more damage from boons (cough poseidon special), and since its a regular special instead of omega its buffable by huntress. Double/shimmering moonshot are the cherries on top

[tall notch]

The point is that your special hits as hard as an axe swing

[shy summit]

and it's incredibly safe and easy to win with

[plain fossil]

And hits 4 times per second ya

[tired fulcrum]

The only point of the omega is to heal. You spam the regular special for dps

[broken pier]

ah so you just spam bullets so u want like 21% ias hermes etc

[plain fossil]

From offscreen

[civic ocean]

I mean tbf the omega special does have more power and probably slaps

[shy summit]

hermes is not very important compared to double moonshot or poseidon but it's another cherry on top

[plain fossil]

Honestly for damage u just click poseidon and all ur damage is solved

[broken pier]

I mean if u don't get moonshot 2x is the run dead?

[civic ocean]

yes

[tired fulcrum]

No

[shy summit]

you can definitely still win, just a little slower

[broken pier]

I was taking aphro, is poseidon better on it?

[shy summit]

you may lean on origination damage more in that scenario

[civic ocean]

tell everyone that if u dont get double moonshot you should be playing mel torches pink aura instead

[tall notch]

You can use your cast to deal more damage without double moonshot

[plain fossil]

If the goal is to win the round then i would rather play zero hammer momus than 2 hammer any other build except pan

[analog ether]

Gotta say, not really a fan personally.

Don't deny the damage potential.

[broken pier]

I finally pulled off the double pink circles build, and I like Pan daggers at least 12x more

[analog ether]

Just the general idea of it doesn't jive with me.

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1217110523091357747/1240443175303123107/image.png?ex=6659093b&is=6657b7bb&hm=b85ce2e4a90529fe5ac74194cc158222f321da5cdf1c364a92a591c05e43dd5d& no double moonshot. Think it took me till fields to get shimmering

[plain fossil]

How tf do u like pan daggers

[civic ocean]

LMAO

[tired fulcrum]

Though well antler so my dps is insane anyways

[plain fossil]

My brother over here going full troll

[broken pier]

lol I play pan daggers no cast xD

[shy summit]

pan because more knives
hilarious

[tired fulcrum]

Tbh you can just shotgun bosses

[broken pier]

Hook knives + fan of knives + aphro = shotgun showtime

[civic ocean]

u can do that on literally any blade aspect

[broken pier]

yeah but

[shy summit]

but pan has more knives

[broken pier]

pan gives u 5 more

[civic ocean]

do you know what else pan does

[broken pier]

nope

TLDR

[civic ocean]

you have to read that part before you can read the extra knives part

[broken pier]

xDDDDDDDDDDDD

[tough pasture]

oh my. Beowulf lives!

[broken pier]

I actually lowkey don't like how the cast mechanics work with hook/bounce hammers, they get kinda wonky

[shy summit]

you can curve the knifes so they hit multiple targets along the way

it's strong and fun

[civic ocean]

The worst part is that you can literally just drop the cast mid charging the shotgun and it is like super easy and increases the damage interactions with spiral and hook

[broken pier]

Yeah I played around with that, shotgunning octopus style is way more fun for me

[civic ocean]

"Yeah, I played around with it, and doing less damage just speaks to me more"

[broken pier]

I do this in tartarus when its extra crowded but that's about it

[tall notch]

No that's too much clicking

[civic ocean]

There's literally nothing else to click

[shy summit]

man just wants to have fun and sacrifices optimal gameplay for it
respect

[broken pier]

Ye #drypalmgamer

[tall notch]

Can we make nocast% a speedrun category

[shy summit]

i bet guygrimnus fat rolls in dark souls

[civic ocean]

Sweaty gameplay like "pressing the b button once over the course of 3 seconds"

[tender anvil]

Is there a 45+ Pan run up somewhere? Highest I can find is 42

[civic ocean]

Bold of u to assume he rolls

[tender anvil]

While Artemis, oddly enough, has a 48 Fear run done

[civic ocean]

The art 48 is seeded

[broken pier]

I've not played a souls game since demon souls on ps3, and that game was hard af I gave up lol

[tall notch]

Idk if any weapon that actually uses mana has done above 45 unseeded

[civic ocean]

I mean the 48 is still super impressive dont get me wrong

[broken pier]

My thumb doesn't bend where its screwed on so games that require reflexes and/or lots of buttons = not for me

[civic ocean]

Rebind it

[bleak night]

I lost my 49 run

[civic ocean]

I beg mr grimmus

[shy summit]

if it's a genuine accessibility issue you could rebind or use a different type of controller

[civic ocean]

Im boutta break into a rendition of Whole New World

[broken pier]

I put cast on RT, I'm working on being more conscious of using it, but I still dont like to lol

[bleak night]

what weapon do you use the most ?

[broken pier]

Pan daggers > Axe > Skull > Staff > Stupid ass torches

[bleak night]

You play Pan without Cast... ?

[tender anvil]

Well, a seeded Pan would do it for me as well

[broken pier]

yeah

[civic ocean]

LMAO

[bleak night]

but why though

[broken pier]

lazy

[tall notch]

I can see why a non cast gamer doesn't like torches 🙄

[civic ocean]

No need

[shy summit]

guygrimnus is an scp gamer

[civic ocean]

Shotgun them

[plain fossil]

Welcome to the discussion

[shy summit]

shouldn't even exist by all accounts

[broken pier]

idk what scp gamer means but you're prolly right

[shy summit]

uses every button except one of them

i'm saying you're like bigfoot or something strange

[bleak night]

I'm so confused rn

[broken pier]

I unbound the solute button and now I can't pet cerberus

[civic ocean]

24 fear clear on axe

0 casts used

[mental rivet]

Is there any reliable way to do the trial of haste?

[bleak night]

tf.

[broken pier]

ye was ez

[tall notch]

Get reliably lucky

[broken pier]

once i had the right hammers

[bleak night]

what was your build ?

[civic ocean]

Charon

[mental rivet]

😦

[bleak night]

what

[civic ocean]

Im kidding could u imagine

[bleak night]

please don't say you play Charon Axe with no Cast

[tender anvil]

That’s a good question actually. Wish the website actually differentiated seeded/unseeded

[broken pier]

Than axe, fleece, dem attack, furious and advancing WW

I dont use special on axe either

[bleak night]

...

[civic ocean]

LMAOOOO

[bleak night]

I'm kinda irritated for some reason ngl

[plain fossil]

Personally i think pressing attack is too many buttons

[broken pier]

Just use poseidon sprint ezpz

[plain fossil]

U should play 0 button axe, just run at enemies till they get confused and leave

[civic ocean]

This guy is insanely based

Amir and co gave him like 8 options and he's like "no 2 is fine actually ty"

[bleak night]

did I not do that with the Luigi kill

[tall notch]

Least lazy Momus main

[civic ocean]

Are you the person that programmed that Tekken bot to just press light kick on Eddy over and over

[broken pier]

I am a minimum APM player, I come to hades with a diablo 2 background and like to play with 1 button, maaaaaybe two

[bleak night]

Didn't it end up in Eliminator or something

[broken pier]

axe = hold attack .... let go of attack, move the joystick a bit, repeat

[civic ocean]

Wraith King player fr

[bleak night]

Like, it was so good to spam 3 that it was almost a red rank

[civic ocean]

People would forefit on sight against it

[sudden belfry]

crit maxing w health permanently at 30 is fun but HARD

[broken pier]

lol idk about tekken, but I def play mk2 uppercuts only

[shy summit]

what a legend

[sudden belfry]

died in Tartarus

[tall notch]

We heard of 1 boon builds, now we got 1 button build meta

[civic ocean]

Weapon
Agnostic
Button
Selecting

My roommate has knocked on my door to ask what is so funny I howled at the uppercuts only

Bro CANNOT be approached by air

[bleak night]

ShoryuShoryuShoryuShoryu

[shy summit]

gotta sleep but get this man on momus please thank you

[bleak night]

one button duty

[broken pier]

maaaaaan, I miss playing MvC

[tall notch]

Too high apm

[civic ocean]

Didn't he not like Momus because he played Aphrodite on the ranged staff

[shy summit]

oh i forgot it was apm

[bleak night]

It's mahvel baby

[shy summit]

not just button count

[civic ocean]

Holy mackerel

[broken pier]

nah I'm gonna try staff w pos special and see how it goes

but i won't cast lol, and prolly won't attack either after I get boons

[civic ocean]

Hey if I taught Doonk how to do it I can teach u

No need cast

Just run away

[broken pier]

do you get better attacks / second if u frame perfect press?

[civic ocean]

Will you give up if I say yes

[broken pier]

no, I like timing stuff like that as long as its just one button lol

[civic ocean]

I don't think the frames matter tbh you just act like an uzi

[bleak night]

question

does anyone here actually like the Zeus legendary

[plain fossil]

Only if u hit the buttons with ur face

[broken pier]

gotcha, I know with like Arthur sword H1 you could max ur dps with frame perfect attack sequencing I got really good at that

[tall notch]

You get better attacks/second if your cast is down. It's a hidden mechanic

[plain fossil]

No i think its awful i pick literally everything else except ionic gain over it

[civic ocean]

Did you like not cast in that game either or what

[broken pier]

that one was the diamond throw thing right? yeah didn't use that at all

[plain fossil]

I thought it was ok then i played a couple runs with it and found it really useless

[bleak night]

Yeah, it's pretty bad

[tall notch]

It's alright but not a legendary effect

[broken pier]

I think I did the laserbeam spam build a couple times to try it

but i mostly played fists

[shy summit]

hades 1 ignoring cast is much more defensible tbh

[plain fossil]

Im not sure what the worst legendary is, heph is probably up there on some weapons

[broken pier]

i still haven't used all the legendary's yet

[civic ocean]

Shocking Loss? Math wise it seems fine but it feels pretty bad to take a Legendary boon and like 30 mana at least primed on Arrogance for something that doesn't do anything to bosses

If it also read "deals 15% of guardians' max hp" or something then we're talking

[plain fossil]

I mean even math wise demeter is better in terms of less clicks required to kill a room AND it works on bosses AND the explosion has nonzero value

[civic ocean]

Yeah demeter is less immediate tho

[plain fossil]

Like zeus is ur whole ass legendary for 1/3 of 1 heat

[broken pier]

demeter legendary shatter effect works on bosses? that explains how that run went so much faster than I thought vs chronos

[civic ocean]

Like most of the time I don't really care about the last 10% of an enemys hp if they're at 10 they're like frozen and im boutta finish them off anyways zeus is like 7% less enemies to fight rest of the run which is kinda dope tbh

But Demeter obv much better because it actually helps vs bosses right

[tall notch]

Zeus should be loved considering how it's a reverse of one of the most hated pacts but it kinda just feels lacking?

[civic ocean]

I think if every time it happened Zeus yelled HAHA YES we'd like it more

[broken pier]

the more mobs vow is hated? I feel like as long as ur not using max health AND more mobs its no big deal

[tall notch]

Hera has a core boon that kills most enemies in Erebus and Oceanus and it's not a legendary

[civic ocean]

Yeah thats true engagement ring is pretty based

What if Zeus legendary just instakilled anything under 100 hp

[tall notch]

And increased duration means you're pressing cast less often

[civic ocean]

It would be cool if zeus legendary was just like "unprime all of your mana always forever" but required Ionic Gain

[tall notch]

That feels too similar to winter harvest

[civic ocean]

If it unprimed your mana and turned on your low mana passive constsntly

[tall notch]

Ooooooo interesting

[glacial pike]

ionic gain is really bad like you have 200 mana and this shi drops you to like 60 for a 7 regen/s

[tall notch]

60? It drops me to 0 because I have something primed

[civic ocean]

Yeah you need Ionic Gain and the 10 mana or less boon and then you get offered it, and it unprimes your mana and maked that 10 or less boon always active and hit every 3 seconds instead of 5

Smth like that or "Blitz is not consumed when activated"

Do that and the aph duo in medea and run it down

[tall notch]

Hear me out
Blitz isn't consumed and instead throws a lightning at the enemy every second/1.5/whatever is balanced

[civic ocean]

The only problem with that is the duos with dem and aph

Which specifically deals with blitz being activated

[tall notch]

😦

[civic ocean]

So you would need to like wrestle with that

Also the CL in blitz activate boon

[tall notch]

I just want lightning to feel cool

[civic ocean]

Hear ME out

Hestia legendary makes Scorch tick 12 times instead of 6

😄

[tall notch]

Air fryer synergy??

[civic ocean]

Yeyeyeye

[tall notch]

Let's just make air quality the Hestia legendary and give Zeus a new infusion

It's better than her actual legendary

[civic ocean]

But but air quality does so good with other stuff

Fine ig

[broken pier]

Okay, 24 torches all I have left, am I playing this right, you just hold down attack and dash to avoid stuff retrieve ghosties to double hit?

[tall notch]

You just want to WABS, disgusting

[tall notch]

Hold down attack, dash around, cast on cd to control and group enemies for your ghosts

[broken pier]

should I use aphro cast for centering?

[tall notch]

I prefer demeter > hestia > aphro in that order

[broken pier]

hestia do u go for air quality

[tall notch]

But any should work at 24. Also do yourself a favour and start Hera for born gain

[broken pier]

always lol

[teal remnant]

born gain op

[tall notch]

I just like the scorch ticking early game tbf. But you can go aq if you're feeling like assembling it

And natural gas can do chain reactions which is sick

Remember you can cast during attack channel!

[tender anvil]

Ok then, I did some research on seeded/unseeded on the leaderboard (unseeded = death is shown), and actually found only 4 (!!!) unseeded runs above 40:

• 46 Meli Skulls
• 45 Momus (by @tired fulcrum )
• 43 Eos (by @tall notch )
• 42 Pan

Surely these are not all, but that’s what we have on the leaderboard.

[tall notch]

Wait were all the 50 Momus runs seeded? My life is a lie

[tender anvil]

On the leaderboard - all runs above 40 with exception of @tired fulcrum are

Correct me if I’m wrong, there are like 13 links I went through, might have missed some

[broken pier]

Yeah, didn't realize this, might need to turn on cast dmg arcana, what's the best attack? demeter?

[plain fossil]

I actually like demeter attack but more ppl click hera i think

[tall notch]

Hera or spiteful (no attack boon but +200% scaling from hera heph duo)

[plain fossil]

Omg automod please

What i said was i click demeter but i look for reasons to click demeter on everything bc im a basic b*itch

[tall notch]

Thing is, if you take dem you need attack scaling elsewhere. It's doable (I did it in 40 fear) but if Chaos hates you and you don't like antler your dps will suffer

[plain fossil]

U dont lose a ludicrous amount of damage right

[broken pier]

Sorcerous doesn't seem to work with omega torches so I can just turn that off yeah?

[tall notch]

You do lose a good amount of scaling, Dem attack is the lowest

[tall notch]

Yea turn off sorceress and take something else

[plain fossil]

I mean at rare level 1 its 15% its not that bad and the difference is lower with more rarity/levels bc hera scales like ass

[tired fulcrum]

If i attempted 50 i would seed too lmao double moonshot resets be like

[tall notch]

Just do so many resets your save file stops functioning correctly

[tall notch]

Dem attack is also a bit redundant when you have freeze cast. I'll take it when she doesn't give me cast but that's about it

[tender anvil]

There’s also an odd 41 Fear Meli Flames run, which, while not unseeded, I fail to understand for what purpose - he didn’t take any hammers, and went Demeter keepsake for room 1 Dem boon.

[warped egret]

is there some kind of database of boons? or general tier list

[tall notch]

Idk about tierlist but Echocolat had a pretty extensive spreadsheet

[warped egret]

thank you! found it

spreadsheets are evil, i opened it and my first thought was i bet i can make a evil google sheets database/build creator w this

[tired fulcrum]

If you encounter any boon tierlists i would take them with a lot of grains of salt

[warped egret]

yeah, i dont neccesarily think its a one size fits all, but a general idea of whats on the stronger end and whats on the weaker end, especially without heat, would be nice

im more curious if theres an obvious build/synergy im missing tbh

[delicate vortex]

Can someone teach me to use the Aspect of Medea?

[tall notch]

Just put every pos and hera boon in s-tier, easy

[delicate vortex]

It feels so awkward to use, can someone give me pointers as I go?

[tender anvil]

The cookie cutter for high heat right now is Triple Earth:

• Hera mana regen (best in class)
• Heph defense boons (Trusty Shield + Mynt Condition)
• Heph+Hera duo for damage
• Demeter cast for even more control, Infusion for even more tankiness
• White Antler keepsake for high dps (with the safety net of above defensive boons)

[tired fulcrum]

You pretty much spam 1x attack load into min special. Generally you use zeus special start into like aphro or hera/dem attack. You also want to use the huntress arcana for extra damage

[delicate vortex]

Huntress arcana?

[tired fulcrum]

One of the cards on the top row

[delicate vortex]

Oh yeah I have it active

I also have Furies (damage boost in casts) and Origination. But I find it hard to start off.

[sudden belfry]

best eos boons? i feel like i asked this already but i forgot the answer

[tender anvil]

Born Gain, then either Hera Attack or Heph+Hera duo

[delicate vortex]

Is there no voice chat channels here? D: I would like to ask for help while streaming

[sudden belfry]

gotcha

[tough pasture]

no voice channels.

[delicate vortex]

Nooo

[sudden belfry]

is sustained fire worth it?

particularly for eos

[warped egret]

ty! i havent been using any of hephs defense boons so imma try that

[delicate vortex]

What is that?

[sudden belfry]

fire attack 15% faster but move 70% slower

[delicate vortex]

Oh...uh, no?

[tender anvil]

Is sustained the +attack speed, -move speed? If so - from my experience it’s good, the only better one is Clean Candle

[sudden belfry]

should i pass and hope for clean candle eventually?

[delicate vortex]

Let's see...so if I want to try Aspect of Medea, this is my setup. Cloud Bangle, and Origination and Furies Arcana with Huntress

[tender anvil]

No, they are not mutually exclusive, pick the best one you are offered

[sudden belfry]

ohhh nice

[delicate vortex]

I'll try with some basic Fear setups. So it's only 6 fear

I should start with Heaven Flourish, correct?

[tender anvil]

Can’t really advise on that, sorry( For Medea I guess It’s either the attack or special boon, so in your case either Zeus or Aphro

[delicate vortex]

I just need lots of tips since skull is my least comfortable weapon

I just spam O-Special on Torches

Do I take Demeter or skip her?

[tender anvil]

Demeter is normally really strong (the cast insta-freezes), but be careful on Medea - you can hurt yourself on frozen enemies, as hitboxes stay active while frozen if the enemy was mid attack

[delicate vortex]

So I could skip her and aim for Aphrodite

[tired fulcrum]

Dem is still nice because you can aim for coarse grit if you add her into your pool with hera or heph

[delicate vortex]

But you can only have 3 gods right?

[low bear]

you can have 4 with keepsakes or Charon shop luck

[tired fulcrum]

You can force more with keepsakes but you can also just do zeus + dem + one of hera or heph

[delicate vortex]

I found the hammer. Rocket Bombard, Melting Tackle and Sudden Driver. Uh, which is better? I'm guessing there are 2 better options here.

[low bear]

if you like spamming the Omega Special then Sudden Driver is great

[delicate vortex]

Wouldn't it be better to have just Aphrodite? Or is Hera and Hephaeustus's defense combo better

[delicate vortex]

I thought Sudden Driver only applies to the normal Special

BUt yes I do like spamming O-Speial

[low bear]

is there a good list of hades 2 boons yet I'm not actually sure what the names are for most of them lol

I could be wrong yeah

[tired fulcrum]

Coarse grit can let you tank even more damage than weak, tbh you kinda just pick up who comes first

[delicate vortex]

Yeah we have the wiki online, and in game we have the book of shadows if you got that upgrade from the Cauldron

[delicate vortex]

Alright, I'll just look around

[low bear]

which wiki

but for high fear Coarse Grit is pretty op, borderline run winner imo

I've never lost a 32 Fear run where I got it online I think

[delicate vortex]

Should I take Ionic Gain, or do I skip? Other options is Thunder Sprint and Spirit Surge

[low bear]

it depends how much mana you have and how much you have primed

Ionic Gain can kill your run instantly if you have too little mana leftover

[delicate vortex]

So I need more mana, but I still feel uncomofrtable about Ionic Gain

[low bear]

what's your current total

[delicate vortex]

95

[low bear]

ihh that's pretty low for Ionic gain

I wouldn't recommend it

[delicate vortex]

Reroll? Or take Thunder Sprint?

[low bear]

you'll have less than 30 mana left over

[delicate vortex]

I read it, 28.5, so 29 likely

[low bear]

it depends are there other good Zeus boons you actually want, I don't like thunder sprint because it accidentally drains my mana when I'm just trying to run around and reposition

[delicate vortex]

Double Strike? Toasting Fork likely?

[low bear]

those are decent but I'm not sure if it's worth rerolling for, it's up to you really

Zeus's tier 2 boons are kinda meh imo

[tall notch]

I'm late to the party but yes sustained fire good on Eos
Play sustained fire

[low bear]

Jolted was too powerful

[tired fulcrum]

You usually just instaproc blitz with medea so toasting doesnt do much

[delicate vortex]

I rerolled and took Divine Vengeance

[tired fulcrum]

Though with toasting you can go for romantic spark bug

[low bear]

romantic spark aka discount merciful end

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1218621088049659930/1243033120995807273/Hades_II_2024-05-22_19-47-39.mp4?ex=66593ace&is=6657e94e&hm=11874a320c6242003d14bb896dd3643c4ca32561222b7ea3a2c70fbf69e8a263& the numbers are kinda funny though

[delicate vortex]

Well then, I got none of the gods we suggested

I got Apollo

[tired fulcrum]

His dash is good for proccing orgination and if you get his cast you can get his duo with zeus

[low bear]

I wish the duo didn't add to the cast time

but yeah Apollo dash is good

[tired fulcrum]

Its bugged so you dont need to do the extra channel lol

[plain fossil]

alright imma try some runs with double mob damage on since u guys say its not bad to click. i am skeptical

[cloud scarab]

So when in the choron shop before chronos there's are two boons of the same god for wildly different prices, is there any incentive to go for the now expensive one? Or is it just pricing in doubling up on the same god in one go?

[tired fulcrum]

Higher chance for rare/epic boons

[cloud scarab]

Is this shown somewhere in UI or just expected knowledge?

[rough fjord]

I think it's pretty intuitive

[tired fulcrum]

Idk if it tells you in game other than experience and shiny but its been datamined

[delicate vortex]

Somehow without a Gain, I got Apollo's Cast as a heroic

[proven orbit]

In hades 2 there are up arrows on buffed boons, I believe

[delicate vortex]

Died to Chronos...

[glacial pike]

Engagement ring on erebus is busted

[delicate vortex]

Guess I'm not quite there yet for Medea,

I thought Torrential Downpour would be good but alas

[tall notch]

Oceanus too

[lavish hatch]

One strategy I've been using is to find the most important boon for a build at common and then to take the fountain keepsake (Aromatic Phial) after Hecate and then immediately upping it to heroic with the fountain

As long as you get no other common boons in Erebus its a guaranteed heroic on it

[bleak night]

Good way to go about it, yeah.

[wise nest]

Yeah, I use that strategy a good bit. It's especially nice because between miniboss and seeing the same god again in Erebus you can very easily make sure you have common only on the one you want

[wintry furnace]

Flutter strike plus the hammer uprage for the sister knives omega attack plus artemis giving bonus crit to enemies in my cast was absolutely busted in my last run!!!!!!! Did 1200 damage if the omega attack crit!! plus some bonus damge against weak/hitched foes from aphro and hera

[lavish hatch]

Personally I feel that if you get that one boon to start with, you can fine tune the build in Oceanus because you have so many options there

Obviously there are more "perfect" runs, but I love the consistency

[wise nest]

Example: Common Poseidon special on Pan, miniboss Hestia for a rare boon, see Poseidon again and rarify if he gives no non-common options

[lavish hatch]

Exactly, is an amazing start

[wise nest]

Behold

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1192044068272885770/1245589014702981130/image.png?ex=66594cab&is=6657fb2b&hm=50571dbde6c7ae7b10b4a694e342a2801a481c63f6d90fffb407e747394317f3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1042&height=586
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1192044068272885770/1245587433299382323/image.png?ex=66594b31&is=6657f9b1&hm=4ae42ec378cbaf5ab7f286b8010616420bdff8568774d98c08467fcb78dac424&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=825&height=463

Giga movespeed whirlwind of death and then a bunch of extra damage boons on top of it

[lavish hatch]

That must've been hilarious to play

[wise nest]

Furious whirlwind is balanced around you being locked into the normally slow moving spin, so the 60% movespeed is great but reasonable normally

[lavish hatch]

Did you have Aspect of Thanatos?

[wise nest]

But since you can outright sprint with psychic it's literally just 60% movespeed sprint

[lavish hatch]

I havent tried that much yet

[wise nest]

Yep, though this is just about the only time it's ever felt fun to play

[forest oxide]

Heyyy which god is best for Charon axe? I wanna do really busted special damages, already got Solar Ring

[lavish hatch]

I'm a big fan of Demeter her additions to the Cast, but something that makes it ranged can be very nice too

[wise nest]

You could do zeus for extra blitz damage and try to go for air quality

Zeus is probably the best partner

[forest oxide]

Oooh so Zeus on Special?

[lavish hatch]

Air quality is spicy

[wise nest]

Since he also has the ranged cast boon

[forest oxide]

Great, thanks!! Hoping that Hera can still add scorch to my cast so I can get that privileged status or whatever it’s called here now lol thank you xx

[wise nest]

Yeah, applying blitz on the special then the apollo cast burning them to trigger it.
You also get the chance at the projectile cast boon so you can throw it from range.
On top of that, air quality makes you do 30 damage minimum no matter how small the hit, and to hit 30 or more damage per tick on apollo cast requires like heroic + 1 or 2 poms

[plain fossil]

why do keepsakes at the start of a run not default to the last keepsake you started a run with instead of the last keepsake you switched to

rrr

[wise nest]

So while you might hit 30 or more damage on apollo through the run, air quality is a way to get to that as well and gives you an extra way to hit that damage threshold

Also it's probably better to go for aphrodite instead

[lavish hatch]

I've been quite fortunate with Heroic Solar ring's.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1233146305308528650/1245672807744933960/image.png?ex=66599ab4&is=66584934&hm=1ec1bf55fd6b0467cab3976d8778dccb5c2757c9fd9f0caa5040a154b819fcb2&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1214&height=683

[forest oxide]

Damn, that sounds awesome - thanks a lot!! Heard that people are always gunning for Zeus and Apollo duo but thought it’s rather silly since Charon axe does insane damage on all fronts so it won’t need that but if we factor in sprints and bolts, that’s amazing - thanks a lot!!!

[wise nest]

Well, the duo is just extra fast hits of damage for free since you won't be channeling more magick into the cast. It's not a make or break necessity but if you're already using those 2 gods together it's very nice to run into

[wise nest]

cyclone downpour supernova h o l y

God I hate flat damage scaling in this game please god buff the axe's base damage numbers

[lavish hatch]

Not shown is the double channel special hammer and +50% dmg

[wise nest]

Did you get a chaos boon or the arcana card for magic regen?

[lavish hatch]

With that Phial trick, having Heroic Solar ring just gives you so much freedom in what to choose next

[wise nest]

Because demeter magic regen is kinda annoying

[lavish hatch]

Chaos and Demeter, but it was mostly CHaos. Demeter sucks

[wise nest]

Tbf she's still better than apollo magic regen for charon

[lavish hatch]

Although most stuff melted so fast I rarely needed multiple casts except for bosses

[wise nest]

Instead of having to position your cast somewhere you probably don't want it to be, you can just run off and sit still for a moment

Honestly charon is fun but I really hate that the strongest version of the literal giant ass axe is just another "I sentence you to death from 7 miles away" build

[lavish hatch]

Its just a sharp staff

[wise nest]

Axe can be super cool with basic combos, animation cancels, and parries but the base attacks are so weak and slow in comparison that it's just way better to use omega moves basically all the time

Especially when enemies get faster

The fact that a HEAVY enemy without speed buffs can break my hitstun combo and punish me for doing the third swing is insane

[lavish hatch]

Without the ability to throw the cast, it really became a case of run in, aggro em all and then place the cast on the way and fire

[wise nest]

tbf you have cyclone on the cast + freeze on special so you had the next best thing

Demeter cast trivializes chronos so much, especially on a range build

[near forum]

Hey guys ive noticed that using the aspect of persephone on revaal and using the special while charged in csuccesion with a curse maintains the omega special but the curse is also active, things like dark side ,phase shift ,im not sure but do the dmg modifiers of the curse apply onto the omega special in that case?

[wise nest]

I don't think so unless you get the path of stars upgrade that specifically does that

[lavish hatch]

One thing about Charon that I don't like is how few cast actually work with it. Apollo is miles ahead of the others

[near forum]

i went for dark side but the omega charge was active during dark side

and i had the upgrades only i didnt think had the chance to look into it

[wise nest]

yeah, the issue is that basically every god has to choose between omega cast and regular cast effects when special/attack don't have that problem

[near forum]

seems like a cool way to deal lots of dmg

[wise nest]

Aphrodite, Hestia, Hera, and Demeter only have base cast boosts, Hephaestus does the same thing either way, leaving only Poseidon/Zeus/Apollo for omega cast boosts

[wise nest]

So Apollo really doesn't have any competition in this regard and the build path always being the same does suck

but tbf even op weapons do the exact same thing

[lavish hatch]

I agree, it just seems silly to me that the "cast weapon" only really works with 3 god's their casts

[wise nest]

Momus and Pan always go Poseidon special, Medea always goes Zeus special

Honestly, the attack boons are the ones with the most diversity

Axe/revaal attacks can do well with anything between apollo/hera/demeter/aphrodite

Mel/Artemis blades do aphrodite a lot more I'd assume but they'd still work with the others well enough

[lavish hatch]

If you're talking optimal, I fully agree.
But it'd argue Momus and such can at least use the other gods, even if it is sub-optimal

[wise nest]

Tbf that's mostly just because momus is broken

Insane hammers + high asf base damage tends to do that

[lavish hatch]

That's more a case of which numbers work better.
But using Hephaestus with Charon works counter productive

[wise nest]

yeah, momus is busted because it has range, high dps uptime, and crazy scaling without any real commitment on your end

No need for magic building, no need for thoughtful combinations, you just spam safe high base damage from afar with no risk

[lavish hatch]

Momus is very silly, I once did a run with using nothing but the Zeus on hit lightning damage. Had like Apollo special or something random.
The base number and speed are so dumb

[wise nest]

Yeah uh

The fact that momus base damage is exactly the same as axe first swing is a bit insane

while having a way higher fire rate

in the time it takes to do a full axe combo of 280 (40 + 80 + 160) damage, you'll probably have fired off at least 10 momus shots to do 400 damage

All while being safer at range and having more consistent damage uptime in part because of that range but also having faster fire rate

[lavish hatch]

I never thought about that. that is just ridiculous, there's no way it isnt getting some nerf right

Faster attacks causing stagger make you safer too

[wise nest]

Honestly momus is dumb but I don't think it should be nerfed, I just think axe base attacks need a serious buff

You should be compensated with higher damage for being in a riskier spot

One of the things that disappointed me in Hades 1 was how all the melee options paled in damage compared to the ranged weapons despite the inherent risk

The fact that merciful end is the go to damage no matter what melee you're using, even ARTHUR, should tell you something

[lavish hatch]

I haven't played Hades 1 in a while, last time I played it was all about Eris rail and sometimes bow stuff

[wise nest]

You don't even need to go all the way with eris bustedness

clockets alone >>>> every melee build

the fact that just two hammers regardless of boons will compete with merciful end is just silly

[bleak night]

I miss clockets

[wise nest]

petition to combine shotgun and the +2 shells hammers so we can get it with rocket hammer and have clockets at home

It'd still be insanely strong but at least requiring you to use some magic + channel for a sec would make it fine

[midnight gate]

Damn torches are actually good. I tried them out for the first time and killed chronos first try.

[lavish hatch]

Clockets 😂

[wise nest]

especially considering it's two hammers

Meanwhile momus using one hammer + one boon and being better than literally everything

Friendly reminder that the most busted weapons in hades all abused flat damage in their scaling

It's part of why casts are so insanely good in that game

Nevermind that rail and beowulf also had their own dumb interactions that were privileged af

[plain fossil]

Its nice that many of the strong setups in this game like triple earth eos and medea dont really scale flat

[cursive ruin]

Whats a clocket?

[wise nest]

Beowulf got to fire off mirage shot at full power instead of 30% (130% damage vs 200%)
And rocket bomb kept its base power without suffering the penalty of cluster bomb (so instead of 5 rockets at 70% damage, you're doing 5 rockets at 100% damage)

[wise nest]

Cluster bomb (fires 5 bombs) + rocket bomb (rocket bomb) from the first game on the gun

[plain fossil]

Its really only pan and momus, and momus actually does similar damage with % buffs than flat its just poseidon also gives u aoe on top

[cursive ruin]

Ohh.. damn

[lavish hatch]

It was so silly

[plain fossil]

Pan genuinely does do a lot more damage with flat tho

[wise nest]

Medea uses zeus special and triple earth is funky because D E F E N S E

Like yes the % on attack is big damage but you're also getting a ton of damage from the blitz trigger which is just merciful end at home

[plain fossil]

Medea does not do its damage with zeus special lmao its just a nice 140 damage on top of ur big bomb attack combo

[low bear]

Are all of the deal more damage stuff additive?

[wise nest]

Doesn't it scale to like 400

[wise nest]

Most are. Crits are multiplicative, and so are base power buffs

[plain fossil]

It does 140 base, ofc u can scale it higher but like u also scale the attacks

[lavish hatch]

Still pretty new tot the Hades 2 builds, what is Triple earth?

[low bear]

Like say aphro gives my attack +100% with origination I'll deal 150%?

[plain fossil]

Yes

[wise nest]

hephaestus/hera/demeter, the three in combination give you tons of defensive options

while still being good damage

[low bear]

I see I see thanks! I am aware of power being a base thing

[lavish hatch]

Oh sweet, any specific weapon or boons?

[low bear]

Oh also does Omega damage buff include Zeus lightning and Apollo explosion? Or is it just the circle explosion

[plain fossil]

Triple earth eos is indeed a specific weapon

[wise nest]

I think they meant triple earth in general lmao

[wise nest]

It does, yes

[plain fossil]

Generally u dont play triple earth with anything other than eos because the damage is pretty low, u can do it with axe as well if u want

[wise nest]

Duo boon funni

But yeah dem+heph alone go brr

[low bear]

Axe triple earth and force aphro or go for duo boon

[wise nest]

Honestly dem or heph alone go brr

[plain fossil]

Aphro is worse than hera on axe anyway tbh

Its so much easier to clear rooms with hera

[wise nest]

Yeah, they need to buff the trigger range for closeby

[low bear]

Wait

[wise nest]

And even then hitch is just rama at home

[low bear]

How close is close by

[wise nest]

God I miss rama

[plain fossil]

Its like idk 1/3 of a screen

[wise nest]

Rama was the real melee hero of hades 1

[low bear]

So end range of axe doesn't work?

[wise nest]

bingo

[plain fossil]

Its not like u have to be up the mob's nuts but if ur right at the tip of whirlwind it wont proc aph

[low bear]

Damn I didn't know that lol

[wise nest]

Honestly I just wish axe base damage + attack speed were better

[low bear]

Oh also does Thanatos crit affect zeus cast?

[wise nest]

It's one thing if fo2 is screwing you, but base enemies should not be able to break out of a combo because your third swing takes 7 business days to arrive

[low bear]

I like Axe tbh but I always use omega even for small mobs

[opaque cairn]

Any1 attempted 32 Fear run yet? What would be your selection of choice for 3rd statue and with what weapon?

[low bear]

Momus Poseidon is the easiest

And then Pan Poseidon

[opaque cairn]

The skull thrower?

[knotty fulcrum]

yes and you can also fill up the meter with your cast. so if you have pshychic whirlwind you should try to get zeus

[low bear]

No the Staff aspect

[wise nest]

that's moros, but I get the confusion

[low bear]

Oh time for another storm ring run then lool

[opaque cairn]

Hmm, do you omega cast it or just spam?

[wise nest]

it's also the torch, not skull

[low bear]

Nope no mp needed

[wise nest]

Momus poseidon is basically this

get poseidon special
click button over and over for free high damage from range
profit

[low bear]

If you fish for early double moonshot it's a pretty easy win

[wise nest]

you don't even need that

[low bear]

True but moonshot is pretty huge

[wise nest]

the defensive value from being able to safely unload buttloads of damage from range with hitstun is so good

[opaque cairn]

Hm, got to give it a try, haven't had much experience with it yet, only both aspects of dagger and all aspects of Axe, thanks

[low bear]

2x dps plus homing go brrr

[knotty fulcrum]

I would also suggest you try to get zeus for momus tbh. he has ranged cast and also some nice effects for when you have low mana

[wise nest]

I think hestia is better, she helps proc origination and that'll do more damage than zeus bolts

[low bear]

I would say I have an easier time with Hook Pan than non double moonshot Momus for example but they're close

[wise nest]

there's funny static shock tbf which makes my monkey brain happier

[lavish hatch]

Hestia or Poseidon with double moonshot would be my recommendations

[low bear]

Monkey static shock is great

[knotty fulcrum]

you can proc origination pretty easy because you have slip and you just need a cast or gale force

[wise nest]

that's hook pan lmao

[lavish hatch]

But Zeus on hit bolt can be good too

[low bear]

Pan with Hook knives

[wise nest]

yeah but hestia covers both of those in one godslot between scorch + ranged cast

[low bear]

And the 16 knife hammer goes pretty hars

[plain fossil]

Pan has the better highroll but if i have neither hook knives nor double moonshot momus smokes pan

[wise nest]

16 knife gets screwed in closed environments and has weird interactions with range

[plain fossil]

Ur early game is miles better and u get to play the game with 4 less fear

[wise nest]

yeah because momus lmao

[plain fossil]

Ye exactly

[low bear]

Does it? But all the knives rushing Chronos activates dopamine

[wise nest]

not only that, it's even serving as a buff to you bc your build path is more forgiving AND you get that one arcana card that buffs your damage when you're below max magic

[plain fossil]

Like if u just want to have the highest chance of 32 its momus followed by momus with momus in third place

[wise nest]

^

[wise nest]

Yeah, the knives get blocked by walls so closed environments screw it over and cut your dps a ton. And as for range, because the shots come out all around you, a bunch of them will often run out of range on their way to target an enemy unless you're close up

[low bear]

Ah I do feel the range maybe I've just gotten used to going in and going out of danger by now

[tender anvil]

Hard disagree - triple earth is good on everything not doing poseidon. And even then, the defense core is still better than the majority of alternatives if you get a chance to pick it up

[wise nest]

Hot take we should be able to reroll hammers pls

I don't care if it costs 3 rolls

3 is a fair cost for something as impactful as a hammer

[bleak night]

probs make it more specific

you gotta have Experimental Hammer equipped in order to be able to reroll it

[wise nest]

Honestly

That's something I can get behind

Running experimental into fields sounds fair

[tender anvil]

Seeing as they are the most meaningful upgrade, you are absolutely correct. High Fear requires specific hammers. As they went away with restricting player choice (hated those vows), hammers should be rerollable, so that every run has a proper chance while pushing fear.

[bleak night]

I run experimental hammer into fields whenever I don't play Axe

because Marauder Slash can screw me over

[wise nest]

Experimental hammer is funny though because it can just delete an entire knives build no matter what aspect you're on

[low bear]

I wodner how earth trio will hold up once broken gain gets the nerf hammer

[wise nest]

Oh, you're running pan and managed to get hook knives? Let me remove that with concentrated or ricochet

[summer root]

Love it when I get twisting crash from hammer.

🤤

Have y'all tried Aphrodite + Zeus on Aspect of Medea?

[cursive ruin]

Even if they nerf born gain to prime 50% of your active mana id still take it

[tender anvil]

Had to equip Exp Hammer in Tartarus of all places in my 40 Charon, as I’ve failed to roll Sudden Cleaver prior. Was pretty nerve wracking.

[summer root]

Absolutely bonkers. :')

[bleak night]

did you get Sudden Cleaver ?

[wise nest]

Hot take knives should be the damage/power ceiling of the game

[low bear]

Blitz on axe attack, dope or nope?

[wise nest]

Highroll city while still needing you to build properly

[tender anvil]

I did!) Won the run in the end

[bleak night]

I kinda hate Zeus on it except for Charon

[summer root]

can be fun if u spam spin

[bleak night]

Very nice

[low bear]

I do spam spin

[wise nest]

is sc the channel special hammer

[summer root]

spin to win babi, demeter + zeus could be interesting on axe

[tender anvil]

Making it to Tartarus without it was an achievement by itself)

[bleak night]

What a disgusting boon https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1245714741632958495/image.png?ex=6659c1c2&is=66587042&hm=78e1e637af8655ba075f6b2dc61fe47524cc9665610b86dc854c4e1bdf6fe639&

[knotty fulcrum]

My omega special on torches sometimes doesn't channel even tho I'm holding the right click and it just shoots a normal special. Anyone else had that happen? It happes once in a while but it's kinda annoying

[summer root]

Born Gain is probably the nastiest boon in the game.

[wise nest]

born gain go brr

[summer root]

I also really like Apollo's and Zeus' duo cast.

[bleak night]

maybe it's a hardware issue with the mouse's right click ?

[knotty fulcrum]

that's my guess too

[wise nest]

I can't wait for the h2 modpack so I can guarantee first hammer

[bleak night]

Give it a try with a new mouse

[wise nest]

Honestly first hammer and first boon are the perfect amount of balancing rng

[summer root]

I can't wait for the h2 modpack so I can romance scyla

[knotty fulcrum]

I would if I had another one :))

Oh and also, got my first 32 fear run with axe today. ran hera-demeter but couldn't get enough earth boons for coarse gift

[wise nest]

Your build gets the core start to it but you still can get much stronger

[bleak night]

ah, fair

[wise nest]

Honestly first hammer alone is just >>>>>

[tender anvil]

Hot Charon take - the aspect is not about the cast boon, it’s about special speed and throwable cast

[bleak night]

Nice job

[summer root]

idk if thats a hot take @tender anvil

[wise nest]

day 43 of asking for base axe speed buffs

[tender anvil]

Maybe not, I just see a lot of people gushing about apollo omega cast (I did the same when starting), while it’s not relevant at all

[lavish hatch]

Its just what you prioritize, special speed and throwable make it easier to play.
The cast just gives damage

[summer root]

I like big number. c:

Usually I don't really mind the speed because they're just sitting in a cast waiting to die anyway.

[wise nest]

Friendly reminder that fo2 will just screw you anyway a lot of the time

[lavish hatch]

Yup, If I was running fo2 I would always prio speed

[wise nest]

I would always prio speed anyway lmao

[tender anvil]

Need to do the maths on what is better between 2 vanilla omega casts and 1 apollo, damage wise, but at worst they are pretty close (unless apollo is loaded with duos, which you can’t rely on at high fear due to high priming costs)

[lavish hatch]

fo2 might be so bad, that even with speed ur cfucked

[wise nest]

I should level up hermes keepsake so I can use it as a crutch on tartarus

[lavish hatch]

I am curious, what is your favourite Tartarus keepsake?
I originally went for luckier tooth, but that might just be nostalgia

[wise nest]

that's just trying to beat a run

[summer root]

Lion Fang or Medea's Keepsake

depends if im using omegas or not

[wise nest]

Nah we stay balling time to jump into lasers to activate antler

antler is speedrun meta it's super funny

[summer root]

Usually I don't need antlers by the time I'm there because of how cracked Eos is

[wise nest]

you never NEED antler

[summer root]

Really is insane how fast Eos Aphrodite just melts

[wise nest]

But damage go brr

[summer root]

makes the fight a snoozer

that and Artemis Aphro on knives

true power.

[wise nest]

Try boundless/hook knives pan lmao

[summer root]

Already did and I am a pan hater

[wise nest]

Click button once and chronos is instaphased

Nah pan is based because of how highroll it is to reach truly stupid power

[summer root]

Sure the damage is great but wow I hate how the weapon feels just like I did that bow aspect

[wise nest]

Which bow, it better not be rama

[summer root]

chiron

[bleak night]

The opposite for me, I like Chiron Bow but not feeling Pan

[wise nest]

Rama hate is NOT allowed

[summer root]

Im not good at rama yet but I do see its potential

[wise nest]

Oh ok that's fine chiron's pretty boring

Rama is unironically the best melee weapon at high heat (yes it's melee)

[summer root]

Rama actually feels decent

[tender anvil]

White Antler if time is a pressure (which it always is, if you’re fearing up)
Lion fang if white antler is unavailable / hard to trigger (i.e. a lot of armor you don’t want to lose)
Experimental hammer if missing key hammer for the aspect (hail mary)

[plain fossil]

ok so ive been going through the various fear options that ppl suggested to me for surface

[wise nest]

Rama is actually super strong, it just gets overlooked because other weapons are easier and more immediately nukey

[summer root]

Yeah, I just wish Rama was a little faster.

[lavish hatch]

I miss Rama so much, that was my favourite

[summer root]

I miss the gun I'm about to knock Eris out for it.

[wise nest]

yeah but twin shot rama will unironically instaphase bosses

[plain fossil]

my conclusions:

1. Vow of blood is actually ok and u guys were right
2. Wandering monster is horrendous on surface and u guys were wrong
3. I cant do 7 minute timer on surface at all

[summer root]

Gun with Aries? God I miss that.

[wise nest]

eris is a cheating asshole that has 5 hammers active at once and is blatantly using other aspects while the aspect is the same

• aspect of eris
• somehow using hestia sniper shot

[summer root]

Eris is built different.

[wise nest]

em2 eris will get clockets

[sly turret]

How does demeter's boon "Local Climate" work with Charon axe?

[summer root]

hi eris time for you to deal with this build im testing :)))

nukes

[wise nest]

what's that one do again

[summer root]

I think that's the one where it follows you.

Which, I wouldn't recommend because that sounds weird positioning wise with the axe.

[sly turret]

Also does bonus damage

[wise nest]

It might follow you after you detonate it but idk if it'd even do that

Anyway not liking how pan plays is fair but as far as balance it's definitely a more reasonable level of OP than momus

[summer root]

Then again it doesn't follow you if you just tap it like you normally do with Charon anyway.

So, try it, it's probably decent.

[knotty fulcrum]

it's just the damage up. it doesn't follow you. at least that's what i remember from one of my runs

[summer root]

yeah as long as you don't cast omega it won't follow you

[wise nest]

Pan

• has high magic cost unless you get certain hammers
• is reliant on hammers to reach true insanity with damage
• has a reasonable level of damage without hammers/with suboptimal ones considering you have to deal with getting lots of little bits to your build
• does not have 300% damage uptime like momus, if enemies are spread out and constantly spawning then you have to commit the cast or deal with the much slower regular special

[lament kestrel]

its very easy tho to get pos on special and a good magick regen even if u dont get good hammerd

[wise nest]

Yeah but that level of power isn't really as stupid as momus

[lament kestrel]

true

[tender anvil]

Pan seems really bad in Erebus - base special is really bad, and before you get poseidon + hammer + mana regen, you’re a sitting duck.

[lament kestrel]

although i tried momus once and immediately got incredibly bored

[wise nest]

yeah, that too

[lament kestrel]

just
use the attack

[wise nest]

Pan at least has the whole risk/reward aspect to it where you're hoping for your power spike, having to deal with being not super op, and gradually building up your power

[lament kestrel]

plus the base special just isnt that bad

[knotty fulcrum]

I have a question. If I have hook knives and nothing on special is poseidon still the best?

[wise nest]

Momus kinda just go brr no matter what

[tender anvil]

I’m too bad to reliably do that beyond first 3 rooms at high fear 😦

[lament kestrel]

ah

[plain fossil]

Na its ok in erebus, its not anywhere close to momus level but u dont need mana gain for the first half of erebus assuming ur room 1 isnt selene

[wise nest]

usually yeah but typically you want to start your run with the god you want on your aspect's main attack

[plain fossil]

I mean

Sometimes ur room 1 is hammer brah u cant control that

[wise nest]

fair but keepsake

[plain fossil]

And yes, hook knives doesnt change the math

[knotty fulcrum]

that's true but I try to run only keepsakes that I haven't maxxed yet

[summer root]

fair but chaos keepsake

[proven orbit]

fish for hera heph duo, trust

[plain fossil]

Keepsake does not affect hammer odds

[summer root]

i start all my runs with chaos keepsake

[plain fossil]

Or selene odds 😦

[wise nest]

no, the way they worded it made it sound like they were deep into the run and had no special boon yet

[knotty fulcrum]

I did that once. aphro poseidon duo is kinda the same

[wise nest]

We don't talk about selene

[plain fossil]

Lul i dont think so

[proven orbit]

Is that the one that makes all enemies nearby?

[summer root]

Selene get out of my run plz 🙏

[plain fossil]

Anyway u got 2 options if u got a little bit into the run and u didnt click any special yet

1. Poseidon

2. Spiteful strength

Anything else on pan is pretty much trolling

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah. at least I think so

[wise nest]

yes

[proven orbit]

Makes sense

[plain fossil]

I dont really recommend spiteful strength but it is a lot of damage so

[proven orbit]

epic aphro special is like 200% at base, right?

[wise nest]

heroic 250% so yeah that seems accurate

[tender anvil]

In my experience, if I get to elite heavy rooms without both poseidon and mana regen, I’m either going to die or waste a lot of time, failing tight deadline.

[knotty fulcrum]

smth like that. with some poms you get over 200 easily

[plain fossil]

Yea it is, it works out to be about the same dps as poseidon except u need a bunch more investment and it doesnt give u any aoe

[low bear]

Up to how high does hermes's keepsake go up to?

[wise nest]

If I'm doing high heat I unironically just do not take tight deadline despite being a hades 1 mf

[proven orbit]

Damn, so hera heph is basically only relevant because it's the earth trio

[low bear]

Base is 200 seconds

[proven orbit]

300 at rank 3

[plain fossil]

Well u can 7 minute deadline erebus on pretty much any setup at 32f and u will be fine unless u potato

[wise nest]

I think my highest was like 48 in first game and tight deadline just felt way easier in that game

[plain fossil]

5 minute little different but u dont need to 5 minute for 32f

[tender anvil]

At 40 plus you can’t really avoid at least a 7min, alternatives are even worse. Ymmv, of course.

[wise nest]

yeah, but like I said td felt easier before and I was regularly doing 40+ with 5 min timer

[plain fossil]

I dont really like pan at very very high heat, not that ive tried anything other than momus at 40+

I dont wanna play mana builds at 40+ id rather get my free fear

[wise nest]

Not sure why but i do not feel comfy with it in this game, could just be not knowing enemy patterns and spawn manips or all that

[wise nest]

yeah mana getting hard gated when momus gets to exist is insane privilege lmao

Yet another reason I think pan is fine as is and momus stupid

[knotty fulcrum]

that being the one that primes mana for rarity and the one that makes you start with 0 mana? imo you can easily run the first one at least because at high fear you probably don't have that much rarity anyway since you run other arcana cards

[wise nest]

Just nerf the fire rate so double moonshot is just very good and not somehow matching pan dps

[tender anvil]

5 minute timer in H2 is hardest in Erebus, very highrolly for many weapons, and usually requires antler (hence less build control, and more highrolling). Other biomes are ok-ish, if you arrive at Chronos with a scaled build

[plain fossil]

Yes

[wise nest]

both are free on momus

[plain fossil]

I dont play the game with a 5m timer at any fear

I dont enjoy it at all, id rather click 7 minutes and spend 90 seconds picking up revenants lul

[wise nest]

yeah 5m is kinda free in h1 until very high heat regardless of weapon

[tender anvil]

For me the key is Born Gain room 1. So either highroll it with antler, or go Hera keepsake and hope to highroll “free” rooms

[wise nest]

I love turning every biome into elysium

[plain fossil]

Hey man at 40+ fear u do what u gotta do

[wise nest]

yeah honestly fair

The main reason I haven't done 40+ in this game is literally just not wanting to deal with manaless other weapons or momus being turbo op

[tender anvil]

Yeah, I personally enjoy the strategizing aspect (how to make it work) way more than the deadline itself. Not a fan of timers either.

[plain fossil]

That sounds a little slow to me? U would have to spend first three rooms with just the base pan combo which is bit sketchy imo

U would lose like 15 seconds surely

[wise nest]

yeah timer is sleeper worst fear/heat when you factor everything else in

64 heat is free without timer, with timer it's an rng nightmare

[plain fossil]

Idk heat i didnt play h1 that much

[wise nest]

I suspect 55 fear is similar (I think max is 55)

[plain fossil]

Only few runs just enough to see the plot and complete em4

[wise nest]

there's just a ton of things that can instantly end the run and 85% of them are out of your control because ap2 + underworld customs is satanic as a combo

Not only do you have to get your hammer + scale your build all while ap2 makes it an rng nightmare, you have to hope and pray that ap2 doesn't also decide to delete your build in any of the 3 biome transfers

If hades summons butterfly ball miniboss in em4 you're screwed in many cases with most weapons

[bleak night]

I just noticed that they heavily changed the visual fx of Hestia attack trails on weapons ?

[plain fossil]

Its very loud on momus now

[bleak night]

I was watching a YT video on like v0.902xx and the fire trails were actually really fire-looking rather than just red-orange

[tender anvil]

Yeah, that’s the Pan conundrum - it needs all 3 of core boon + mana + hammer. Other mana aspects (Eos, Charon, etc.) can do with just 2 (mana + hammer, most often). Which way to go with Pan isn’t obvious, think I actually got my 40 starting Poseidon.

[plain fossil]

I just tried a momus hera run bc i was curious how it compares to poseidon its kinda eye cancer now

[wise nest]

Once again I shill for pan because it has an insane ceiling but needs lots of things to go right to actually hit it

[plain fossil]

Momus hera has potential btw if they for some reason nerf poseidon but not momus

[wise nest]

momus just turboscales off one hammer and scales really hard with literally any damage boost it comes across

they really shouldn't, fire rate nerf on momus is enough

[plain fossil]

Hey man im just sayin

I also dont think momus needs a fire rate change i think the passive on the weapon needs a rework lul

[wise nest]

Ik but like I really hope they nerf momus specifically and not both it and poseidon

[tender anvil]

I like Pan too, don’t get me wrong. Not saying it’s bad pr anything, just highrolly

[plain fossil]

I think everyone agrees on that

[bleak night]

I think for specials Staff still has all the older trail effects

[plain fossil]

Oh yea?

[wise nest]

I like it specifically because while it's super highrolly it has a really decent middle ground so it doesn't feel useless without its 2 best in slot hammers

[plain fossil]

Its this big red and dark blue monstrosity

[fringe lichen]

best 32 fear oaths for blades?

[plain fossil]

Much louder than poseidon, maybe its just because i didnt play momus hera before

[wise nest]

the base damage is super high yeah, I've had runs where just some chaos boons and other global damage made it do more than poseidon waves but I think nerfing the fire rate is a better change overall

[tender anvil]

Yeah, that’s true, pretty much the only weapons like that - others really have a best in slot hammer, and a couple second tier ones.

[wise nest]

nerfing the fire rate makes it less safe, have lower damage and scaling, etc

[plain fossil]

I guess u could nerf the fire rate but that would make the weapon unplayable for newbies

[tender anvil]

On that topic, what actually is the optimal 2-hammer set for Pan?

[plain fossil]

Its like a dont click this till u dumped 8 nightmare into it

[wise nest]

boundless + hook knives

[plain fossil]

Pretty sure its hook boundless

Spiral hook is fastest cerberus kill tho lul

[tender anvil]

Boundless is the channel speed, right?

[wise nest]

• magic cost reduction

[plain fossil]

Yes, it lets u get off two specials per cast

And makes the full channel cost 10

[tender anvil]

Gotcha, thanks

[wise nest]

I like that pan even with one of its gigabis hammers will still have something limiting it that you really want

[tender anvil]

My 40 Pan actually had Concentrated + Spiral, so there’s quite a bit of potential to push higher with better hammers

[plain fossil]

Hook knives op

I would suggest that its not really about the hammers tho

[tender anvil]

I know, just didn’t roll them 😦

[wise nest]

Boundless without hook will be good damage but you could have better aoe + it isn't turbodeleting bosses as hard, just deleting them regularly
Hook without boundless will limit your specials per cast and mean your magic regen/max might actually be semi relevant for room clearing

[plain fossil]

Pan is going to do enough damage regardless, early hook knives just fixes ur power curve

[low bear]

Poseidon Cast melinoe build falls of so hard against Chronos

[wise nest]

they saw beowulf and said never again

[bleak night]

I like how at this point I'm more worried about fighting miniboss Goldwrath than I do Chronos

[wise nest]

(medea is basically just beowulf at home)

[plain fossil]

Oh no, u tried playing seismic hammer poseidon cast?

[low bear]

Wait the what

I meant melinoe staff

[wise nest]

tell me why goldwrath can perfectly track me even abusing sister blades infinite timeslow

[tender anvil]

So I guess the proper Pan highroll is to hope for a hammer from Echo?

[plain fossil]

Yea sure thats the seismic hammer setup

[wise nest]

Bro pulls a goku and just punches through my timestop

[bleak night]

They really want you to waste time by hiding behind pillars

[plain fossil]

Its not good i tried earlier in the week

[tender anvil]

Just Mynt Condition it!

[wise nest]

hot take frinos should block lasers

[summer root]

hot take frinos should do something

[bleak night]

wish I was lucky enough to get Heroic Mint Condition all the time lol

[wise nest]

frinos op huh

[summer root]

the cat gives you a free death defiance and attacks people for you and gives you bones

[low bear]

I always take frinos I rarely use Toula's dd

[wise nest]

makes you tankier + saves tons of time and damage vs hecate

frinos is better as far as beating a run, toula is better for farming bones

The extra death defiance is not as valuable as blocking some of the most annoying projectiles in the game + extra tankiness

[tender anvil]

Just rare or pommed normal is enough for me to push through its shield, more often than not

[summer root]

just dodge it

most of these enemies dont know what to do when you go behind them in a diagonal direction

even chronos has a blindspot his big dumb grandpa forehead

[wise nest]

You can get unlucky with Hecate's phase change attack, some will punish you for dashing back and forth against the sheep curse

[summer root]

i noticed that but still i prefer the cat

[wise nest]

you're not really using frinos to block anything with chronos

High fear the hecate curse is a massive pain, it wastes tons of time + puts you in a bad position to take more damage

[summer root]

Frinos half the time ends up hopping out of the way

[wise nest]

What

[summer root]

do i have to repeat a sentence that can be read

the frog MOVES

AND I TURN INTO A SHEEP!!!!

[wise nest]

If you're gonna be condescending, maybe get the brainpower to just position properly to block lmao

it takes a single iota of thought power to see that hecate is close to phasing and position so frinos won't jump away and you can put him between her and you

[summer root]

its almost like you ignored what i said

the ball comes at me, the frog moves out of the way of the ball, i get hit by the ball, how is that condescending

[wise nest]

He doesn't hop out of the way if you position properly

[summer root]

Why does he hop out of the way in the first place?!

[wise nest]

He hops because you moved too far

[summer root]

thats the point im trying to make, im ontop of him and he moves!

[wise nest]

you don't need to do that

[mossy ibex]

quick question but best boon for like aspect of medea for argent skull ?

[wise nest]

You literally just see where he is when hecate is close to phasing and then move to the line between him and hecate

[summer root]

Aphrodite and zeus is really fun @mossy ibex

[sour cape]

You think Hera's dmg boost for not having commons needs to be changed?

[summer root]

get their duo that causes 200% damage from sprinting and its pretty crazy since you're constantly moving around with Medea anyway

[wise nest]

No, why

[sour cape]

Its kinda silly that its only usable in practice with her infusion

Otherwise like you cant control always getting rares or above

[wise nest]

Well aside from hitch, one of hera's gimmicks is sacrificing for higher rarity

[summer root]

hera is a snob

[wise nest]

• a lot of earth boons are just really good anyway

[summer root]

the boons hera gives you are going to be snobby

they're really great but sometimes i wanna smack her upside the head

[wise nest]

https://external-preview.redd.it/just-found-out-that-frinos-can-tank-headmistress-hecates-hex-v0-dDYxcGtxcXV3MDBkMRPLIOIe1CxnOWrHUMjLJmtRL4ZpeDi4T9gpSlARgIAB.png?format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e753d1b12e95c6aa3f83a5c373e3b0110ff7afb3

Like you just stand a bit behind frinos and you're chilling

[summer root]

did you go to hecate to screenshot something over a discord disagreement of opinion

[wise nest]

No i googled it lmao

[summer root]

i prefer the cat.

[wise nest]

It's not an opinion that you don't know how to make frinos tank the curse and were acting like it's an inconsistent/difficult thing to pull off

[summer root]

frog has been too inconsistent for me, perhaps since its in early access

it could idk A BUG

[wise nest]

It literally isn't, that is genuinely just you playing it wrong

[summer root]

im just walking away since you want to prove something to me clearly

[wise nest]

You're the one who was condescending first lmao

[summer root]

No you just insist!

[wild pine]

yeah except I usually get family trade itself as a common

[summer root]

I stated an opinion, and EVEN CHANGED THE SUBJECT and you brought it back up

Leave it.

[wise nest]

And I never said liking toula is bad

[summer root]

I'm sorry for being condescending to you.

[wise nest]

You acted like I can't read and then whine when I just explained how the misconception was wrong

ty sorry for seizing on it so much

[summer root]

ty no hard feelings

[wise nest]

[summer root]

but not to bee on the topic I really do think my frog is bugged 😢

I was in that position I swear.

[cursive ruin]

I wish toula just attacked on her own

[summer root]

Yeah but she'd be pretty OP I think?

[cursive ruin]

Like why do i gotta go look for a cat when im busy dodging stuff

[summer root]

She does quite a decent chunk of damage and it's pretty brainless to accidentally run into her alot of the time.

She's more of a support, rather than a consistent damage.

[cursive ruin]

And then in the eris fight she just takes a nap in the literal fire

[summer root]

that is pretty funny

toula get out of the fire we gotta fight the bad guys

[cursive ruin]

I say nerf her dmg and make her attack on her own and shed be top tier

[wise nest]

oh no that position isn't the right one, I was just getting a pic of the hecate fight with frinos at all

[summer root]

le frog

[wise nest]

Speak for yourself I'm gonna do 2nd phase 2nd half chronos with only toula

40 minute fight incoming

[summer root]

I mean if you wanna torture yourself

[fringe lichen]

peak

[wise nest]

I'll do it with fo2 just to train for 50 heat LMAO

[cursive ruin]

Actually now that i think abt it both the pets dont really do much to affect combat

[summer root]

I need Circe now.

[wise nest]

circe... beeg mel... smol mel...

[summer root]

Frinos IS a pretty good cover, I just don't like hiding behind stuff often.

Frinos makes the eris fight pretty easy to if you dont get Hestia's sprint

[cursive ruin]

Why hide when you can abuse i frames?

[summer root]

Right? this guy gets it

[wise nest]

I think he's neat because he's not good at blocking fast fire rate projectiles or spam, he's just something that blocks singular big hits

[summer root]

He EATS Eris' gattling gun attack

Where she shoots in a straight line

[wise nest]

Sometimes that one is weird and he gets knocked at an angle

[cursive ruin]

I like frinos cuz i dont have to do the shade compel minigame💀

[wise nest]

Like you REALLY need to be sure your angle is right in that one

[summer root]

Yeah thats true

[wise nest]

Fair point but have you ever tried a 5-hit fish 💀

[cursive ruin]

Like can anyone compel a tartarus shade manually??

[summer root]

Toula always fishing is so annoying.

[wise nest]

you don't even need to, if you have enough free space in eris you can actually just sprint across the arena and outrun the shot even without a speed boost

[summer root]

^

[cursive ruin]

Honestly yeah minigames are super tough.. who tf said fishing was relaxing??

[summer root]

Or just run around in a circle around her too, unless she's doing the shotgun blast then just stick to her back

[wise nest]

oh actually that one's easy, the hold window is generous and you might be making it harder for yourself, I had the same problem at first

[cursive ruin]

Really? So just try to keep them held down?

[wise nest]

Like say it starts with hold left, then does hold both, you don't have to take your finger off left, you just keep holding and then hold right too

Yeah, you don't need to repress the button if the same one is there

[cursive ruin]

Yeah no i knew that.. its still too hard for me

[wise nest]

Oop

It happens dw

It's definitely not as bad as 5-hit fish though

that gives me stardew valley legendary fish ptsd

[cursive ruin]

Like my problem is when they say hold left and then they say hold right, my brain is like
"LET GO OF THE LEFT TRIGGER"

"Oh and you should prolly hold right trigger now.. oh wait you failed nvm"

[wise nest]

Yeah I got that problem at first because I suck at rhythm games

[cursive ruin]

I think the worst ive seen is 3 hit fish which is manageable

[wise nest]

Oh yeah 5 hit is miserable, it moves super fast and will outright bait you by going near the circle and quickly dashing away

[cursive ruin]

Also i swear perfect catching the fish sometimes skipped the minigame

[summer root]

i will NEVER play the fishing minigame EVER as long as i live again

It's trolled me too many times

[wise nest]

Real

I've got toula perma equipped for the next few days so I can finish maxing the aspects

[cursive ruin]

Nightmare grind is real

[wise nest]

I think the only testament I have left is the last torch one and I just don't like torch even playing the more fun builds

[summer root]

I already did that, I guess I could start doing higher heats but i just want extreme measures chronos so bad

Not even Eos? Shame they feel just like fists to me

[wise nest]

Ok funny thing is

[cursive ruin]

I have like the dagger testament i think.. pretty sure i started a run.. just have to try and finish it

[wise nest]

torches are the last ones I have left to upgrade from level 2

[sour cape]

So much nightmare!

[wise nest]

I think I still haven't fully maxed persephone yet but aside from that it's just moros/eos

[sour cape]

But its a good day seeing it at the charon shop

[summer root]

Moros can also be fun but its trickier

[wise nest]

Honestly yeah

[cursive ruin]

So little bones

[sour cape]

Annoys me when doing fear runs and I cant afford the Nightmare

[summer root]

not when you're 100 coins short

[onyx coral]

Hey all! Just started playing this past week. Wondering if there's a general list of which vows are "free" or which i should turn on first to ramp up.

[wise nest]

Funny thing is we still have an entire weapon + 1 more aspect for each weapon coming

[summer root]

I already farmed like 10k bones

[sour cape]

That is rough 😭

[summer root]

Im so ready for the new aspects.

[cursive ruin]

Ig we will only get the hidden aspects after they finish up the surface?

[sour cape]

Or when you have tons of money and Charons just selling a VIP card

[summer root]

"here have a card, you have 200 of them i know but have another anyway"

[sour cape]

Ugh!!

[wise nest]

Depends on the build for some of them, but the best/freest is vow of forsaking (the one that eliminates boons you don't pick) because it can actually help you if you play it right by eliminating boons you don't want and increasing the chance for ones you do want

[cursive ruin]

If only charon delivered nightmares to the crossroada

[summer root]

That'd make it too easy for nightmare its already super easy to get

[wise nest]

Builds that don't care about magic will appreciate the vows that prime magic + make you start with 0

[cursive ruin]

Ig yeah.. being in the shop is already super convenient

[summer root]

They buffed Familiars like crazy too so farming is probably the easiest its ever been

[wise nest]

you can get hidden aspects before even beating hades, but you do need to reach him, so maybe?

[cursive ruin]

I usually get a gain boon fast anyway soo free fear ig

[sour cape]

Vow of Wandering followed by Vow of Forsaking are probably free for all the weapons and playstyles.

Vow of Fury is very efficient for how much fear it can give.

After that it kinda depends on your preferences and weapon.

[wise nest]

don't underestimate starting with 0, it can be a bit annoying

[cursive ruin]

Oh i meant more like the dev team prolly prioritise finishing up the game areas over adding hidden aspects

[wise nest]

oh yeah vow of wandering really is a nothing burger, there's annoying enemies in every region so it isn't really that bad

[sour cape]

Like blue shields are free for Poseidon builds but axe hates them

[summer root]

starting with 0 is annoying until Hera blesses you with born again on the first room 😩

[wise nest]

isn't that vow only 1 fear anyway 😔

[sour cape]

yea its barely any fear

[summer root]

Yeah its so cheap too.

[onyx coral]

Thanks gang!

[sour cape]

and makes Charon Axe really annoying if no Born Again

[cursive ruin]

Cmon its erebus how hard can it be.. forgets about wandering enemy vow also being turned on

[summer root]

which sucks because Charon axe is so FUN

[sour cape]

Reverse Mint Condition, gotta wait for mana to regen before can do anything

[summer root]

Let me just do big boom

[wise nest]

charon axe is fun but I do wish it had a good cast option besides apollo

zeus cast is just discount apollo for that weapon

[summer root]

I mean Hephaestus goes pretty hard

[cursive ruin]

I think pan and charon are the ones that suffer most from no mana.. oh and the skull ig

[wise nest]

It still only hits 3 times, no?