h2-builds-and-combat

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1218621088049659930/1242593807648686100/Hades_II_2024-05-21_14-39-08.mp4?ex=664e672a&is=664d15aa&hm=054e8a02fa98584f038d1c0c5e1abcc894226fc23552649728e029928394f88f& lol

[lost shell]

Do u have any imgs of how u build these? Curious to see Spiteful Strenght. Which weapons these are better with?

[wet nova]

What’s that hammer again?

[spare kite]

I love the balls

[wet nova]

Cos why does it cost 25

[tired fulcrum]

Apollo legendary

[wet nova]

Oh I see

[civic ocean]

There's a guide to 32 fear pan blades with SS and Slow Cooker here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vS73iWzIxaOupBwoVUJPjxtmSJEtrlTnLh9GFJzTYblncgPo7Ka1J08JG7r-4k6qEPwOJWH_xfp4al2/pubhtml#

I am putting up more stuff today

[tired fulcrum]

Not hammer both my hammers are on special because hammers suck

[warped harness]

whats the best area for grinding levels on the keepsakes, overworld or underworld?

[wet nova]

Idk why I thought it was the 1500% hammer but then I realised that one cancels you

[sour cape]

Heph gets used a lot I hear

[lost shell]

are u just pressing the attack button? holy

[wet nova]

Underworld has more encounters and you go faster through them on average

[warped harness]

ok

[wet nova]

Although fields doesn’t have many locations weirdly they count as multiple encounters per room

[civic ocean]

Yeah location and encounter are counted diff

[lost shell]

so, this triple h dont use attack or special boons and try to focus on fire essence boons? interesting

[civic ocean]

You use the Heph boon for whatever isn't the attack/special you want to use

So if you are playing art bpades you take heph special

If you're playing pan you take it for the attack

And then that carries you until Slow Cooker Spiteful takes over

[long hemlock]

why is this bro acting like there wasnt busted ass concepts in hades 1 lmao

go fire the 1st game up bro

[sour cape]

Demeter good in H2 is nice 😎

[strange kite]

im gonna be so screwed if they nerf poseidon because my builds are: get poseidon. get born gain. get 2 curses.

[long hemlock]

take the eso

[spare kite]

Freeze is so nice lmao

[long hemlock]

the eso pill will set u free

[strange kite]

then it’s all random crap cuz i need literally nothing else

[sour cape]

Staff player 👀

[strange kite]

no i dont play staff

[sour cape]

Or dagger player hmmm

[civic ocean]

Eh you'll just do whatever we discover is broken for them next right

[strange kite]

why would i need born gain for staff lul

[long hemlock]

i like doing about 4 artemis games a day

[civic ocean]

Maybe you'll discover it

[strange kite]

probably yes

[long hemlock]

then stopping bc my hands are fried

[strange kite]

unless it’s some antler crap lul

[warped harness]

why am i having such bad frame drops in hades 2

actually i should ask tech supp sorry

[sour cape]

Actually Dagger, Staff and Torches all use Poseidon?

[strange kite]

i mean i already know about hera demeter coarse grit but i dont like axe so i might do hera demeter coarse grit skull

but also skull feels slow and i hate slow

[long hemlock]

i like the zoomy skull its fun

[sour cape]

Skull isnt that slow

[strange kite]

so maybe what i need is to ignore coarse grit

[sour cape]

dash and all 👀

[strange kite]

i mean like kill time

if i cant melt cerb instantly i feel the run is slow

if i cant cook hecate quickly that’s also slow

[iron flame]

for the demeter x hera boon where they upgrade your keepsake. what happens if your keepsake is at max rank, does it become heroic? or doe sthe boon do nothing

[strange kite]

if drummer does chariot and dynamo then my run is abysmal

[spare kite]

4* keepsake yeah (if applicable)

[iron flame]

ooh thats neat

[timber pawn]

I know an xiv raider when I see one

[spare kite]

Heph's legendary also gets you rank 6 aspects

[strange kite]

[long hemlock]

oh

[iron flame]

oohh, is there a boon that upgrades tarot cards past the normal max rank as well ?

[spare kite]

Something from circe iirc?

Activates a random card and upgrades, but not sure if it gets you lvl 4 sutf

[strange kite]

i think there’s like a duo boon that does it? pretty mid

[spare kite]

Duo is for keepsakes

[strange kite]

oh i see

god damn what a trash duo boon fr fr

[spare kite]

Which is fun on paper but on practice a lvl 4/rank 6 keepsake/aspect isn't doing anything

[strange kite]

yes a whole duo boon just to get 10% additive damage on tartarus real amazing there lmao

[civic ocean]

I would love that if I'm taking wheel to tart

[strange kite]

i cannot hate on duo boons enough

[civic ocean]

Or the Hermes keepsake? Longer duration extra speed? That sounds great

[strange kite]

i guess. but isnt that duo boon a hera one?

[dark parcel]

how does the scylla boss battle work? i just cant understand it

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1218621088049659930/1242597020028637233/Hades_II_2024-05-21_14-54-36.mp4?ex=664e6a27&is=664d18a7&hm=cc9ea1367763db7e23721f378b56783dd1f8191842281ed847b41c11ffaceafa&

[long hemlock]

[strange kite]

for hermes keepsake im pretty sure u can get through fields in under 5 minutes

[spare kite]

They all have their own hp bar, when you phase (middle of the ho bar) all 3 one of them gets their moveset upgraded

[strange kite]

and i think swapping is still correct for lion’s tooth even if u have some leftover time

[dark parcel]

i cant really see the other two guy hp bars

[spare kite]

Exactly, they share the same hp bar for whatever reason

[civic ocean]

It's a demeter hera boon so you probs don't have that much offense with it

Lion's tooth is pretty mid IMO, 25% additive multiplier can be pretty bad in Tart unless you are really, really low on dmg

[tall notch]

You vibe to the music and eventually win the fight

[civic ocean]

But even that gets better right

[strange kite]

it’s 50% decaying down to 25%

so it starts off pretty strong

[dark parcel]

and is there a way to make the fight easier? cause i keep dying to that mf

[spare kite]

Uhhh, ask someone else for tips

[civic ocean]

Yeah but like by Tartarus my chosen damage output is usually doing like 200+% or doesn't care for more % damage

[spare kite]

I just hit them and they die idk (and take out the drummer first)

[strange kite]

like outside of hydraulic might window ur looking at starting with a 27% overall damage increase

[dark parcel]

thx

[civic ocean]

It's additive to my other bonuses so

[strange kite]

down to about 10% on kronos

yes i know

but the number is still big enough that it’s good and like hermes channel speed increase wont last until kronos

[civic ocean]

I've never had it not

[strange kite]

wdym?

[civic ocean]

Like I've taken herm to chronos 4 times and it made it to him intact all 4

[strange kite]

5 minutes through fields and tartarus is possible but i dont think it’s that consistent

[civic ocean]

Why fields just take for tart

[strange kite]

if u get a well in fields thats much more doable or if u get a miniboss

??? why wouldnt u take hermes on fields?

it makes u go faster

fields is probably the best time for hermes cuz u have the most movement there

[civic ocean]

Because then it won't last for when my build needs it for Chronos, usually

[strange kite]

i mean u dont need hermes for kronos u can take lion’s tooth and still have a big boost for getting through tartarus and a small boost on kronos

[timber pawn]

has anyone gotten wonky stuff going on with hecate when she does the 3 laser invuln phase? Like the laser resets to default position part way through the rotation?

[strange kite]

unless u really really need to channel quickly

[civic ocean]

Hermes keepsake's channel reduction deals way way more damage than Lion Fang yeah

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah happened once when i phased her during it

[strange kite]

ik how good hermes is my point is i want to make the most out of it

[civic ocean]

You don't take it for the run speed

It's a channel time keepsake

The run speed is just cherry on top imo

It can help defensively too for sure

[timber pawn]

some of the lasers also forked lol

I got a video clip

[strange kite]

why not?

u still benefit from channel time in fields

and u get to benefit from run speed too

and lion’s tooth helps u get through tartarus pretty well

like having an overall 20 ish damage increase is really good thats even better than 20% channel time

lion’s tooth decays to being worse than hermes in kronos fight but it actually starts better

[proper nimbus]

im going to ask what's probably a very silly question but... can someone explain what the "Hitch" status curse does?

Because it's current definition in-game when you hover over it just feels vague to me and i'm not sure i entirely understand whats going on

[loud ice]

yo is there any documentation of all the boons in this game
I'm looking to see what duo boons posieden has but the wiki doesnt seem to have a majority of them listed

[civic ocean]

Everything with hitch on it shares a certain % of the dmg anything with hitch on it takes

[strange kite]

theres this late game recipe to give u a boon list in book of shadows

[lost shell]

HOLY SH*T

[loud ice]

I know but I do not have that

[lost shell]

This thing melts every boss just tried it

[proper nimbus]

ooh okay! thank you so much i really was so confused lol

[tired fulcrum]

Eos cult rising up

[strange kite]

what did u do?

[lost shell]

any other eos builds? thats fun af

[strange kite]

why is everybody coping on eos all of a sudden?

[long hemlock]

bc its fu n

[spare kite]

Coping or going, this is good

[strange kite]

what is?

[lost shell]

i just deleted the poliphemos...

[long hemlock]

everyone acting like they are world class speed runners are the real copers

[lost shell]

dk his name in english

[strange kite]

what boon?

[tired fulcrum]

@strange kite cuz its funny

[strange kite]

uh i cant see the video what did u do?

[tired fulcrum]

Delete chronos

[strange kite]

what did u use to delete kronos?

i heard about air quality scorch

was it something else?

[spare kite]

Also the ghost orbs just look pretty nice when recalling a lot of them at once lol

[civic ocean]

Very pac man esque

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1226642940764487690/1242602576373874758/image0.jpg?ex=664e6f54&is=664d1dd4&hm=49b368fd044f60307744c39b32117be0fb79139301131f424e29495f54f5e5fd& heart throbs

[strange kite]

ohhh that

[civic ocean]

How does one "cope" on a weapon

Is that some slang term for movement tech

[strange kite]

say that torch stronk when torch weak

it needs buffs

[long hemlock]

is it tho eso is pretty damn good once u learn it

[lost shell]

how air quality scorch works? i understood slow cooker but not this one

[long hemlock]

like what are u saying its bad in favor of? like what are we measuring

[strange kite]

it is tho because everybody is building weapon agnostic high boon count builds on torch when other weapons have much lower requirements

[tired fulcrum]

Air quality affects internal ticks of scorch so it does like 160-200 dps

[strange kite]

basiclly if ur build works on an unupgraded melinoe version of literally every weapon then ur build can still be good but not really showing off the weapon/aspect itself if u know what i mean

like aq scorch works on literally every weapon in the game

[civic ocean]

Not really

[spare kite]

Torches reminds me of rail tbh?
Get a good build told to you/get aspects or most people just avoid it

[strange kite]

name 2 weapon it doesnt work on

[long hemlock]

i mean go play it dude and tell me its not more fun

[civic ocean]

It's pretty bad on axe for instance

[long hemlock]

unless ur a slave to playing the best wep every run idk

[strange kite]

it’s fine on axes. just spin to win or use cast to apply scorch

im a slave to playing on anything but torches lul

[civic ocean]

Neither of those are like nearly as effective as using eos

[long hemlock]

i was til i took the eso pill

[strange kite]

maybe not perfect but like u can get plenty of scorch stacks just fine with axe

[civic ocean]

The torches are uniquely positioned to create "weapon agnostic high boon count builds" because of their room clear right from the get go that lets them take something like passion dash start

[strange kite]

uh can other weapons not take passion dash or am i tripping here? like axe pash dash with spin to win should be fine right?

[civic ocean]

Maybe, idk, I doubt it compared to taking a strike boon

[strange kite]

and even dagger if i dont get poseidon early i just do the normal attack. if ur on artemis or meli u should be able to dash and attack ur way through erebus

well yeah because other weapons might as well build using strike boon cuz its one boon to be highly effective

but nothing is stopping say momus from using passion dash

[civic ocean]

Not if you want scorch tho, aph attacks are water

[lost shell]

but which weapon is the best? and what boons should i aim for

[strange kite]

u dont go for scorch

[tired fulcrum]

Idk it doesnt really matter what you use for air quality scorch

[civic ocean]

Eos definitely one of the best weps for it

[strange kite]

like hearthrobs aphro apollo was shown by mint and unanas

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1218621088049659930/1242277747909197935/Hades_II_2024-05-20_17-46-15.mp4?ex=664de98f&is=664c980f&hm=10720c66aba2cbea6f338cb17202c052f22c831aac5d3a60ee47e6350f014102& the better build is funeral pyre extinguisher

[civic ocean]

I also won at 32 with apo aph torches ye

Good build

[tall notch]

EOS. CULT.

[civic ocean]

Torches are good I don't really think they need buffs much

[strange kite]

jesus the torch cope is real

[spare kite]

what causes that bug again

[tired fulcrum]

Make moros less janky

[lost shell]

WHAT IS THIS BUILD

[tired fulcrum]

Uh like rechanneling quickly i guess

If you spam channel on other weps it works and on daggers your dash makes you rechannel

[strange kite]

what torches need is a 1 boon build

[tired fulcrum]

I mean poseidon staff and daggers are kinda hammer rng unstonks

[strange kite]

ur still cooking without a hammer on daggers and daggers have like 4 good hammers

[civic ocean]

What is the 1 boon build for skull and axe

[tall notch]

I think captainfail is a hater

[strange kite]

i am a hater

[strange kite]

aphro

[tall notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M91FJmPktw high boon count build btw

[tired fulcrum]

Hestia/hera funeral pyre duo + fire extinguisher. Funeral pyre is uh slightly bugged

[civic ocean]

I have been informed that this is "cope"

[strange kite]

it’s cope when u say that torches arent underpowered

and i think torches 100% need buffs

[tall notch]

Eos is unironically in top5 of weapon aspects

[lost shell]

i see

[spare kite]

if you are speaking aspectless torches sure, ig

[civic ocean]

What u need actually is to just take 1 Aph boon and win at 40 like the Axe and skull players apparently do

[hazy thorn]

Just saved a bad run by spamming Zeus Lightning Lance Cast from a distance while Chronos was standing in his own timetrap. The cast got cancelled but the lightning still hit him

[lost shell]

btw does anyone have another good build for charon other than just apollo cast/ zeus special?

[spare kite]

but eos is just strong

[tired fulcrum]

Only really apollo cast synergizes with charon

[civic ocean]

Apollo Cast+Demeter

[tired fulcrum]

Poseidon cast is bugged so it doesnt even get the cleave cast benefits

[strange kite]

ur not taking 1 aphro boon throughout the whole run ur taking 1 aphro boon to make ur build already stronk and then u go from there

[civic ocean]

That is literally what torches do with Aph

[strange kite]

okay but i mean like it could be better u know?

make it stronger with just 1 boon

like how momus gets 1 poseidon boon and its melting face right away

[spare kite]

Momus is a different issue tho

[tired fulcrum]

Momus is also just unbalanced

[tall notch]

And Momus is an outlier overpowered aspect

[civic ocean]

You are gonna have the biggest crisis of ur life when Momus Poseidon Pan get nerfed

[strange kite]

i know right?!?!

[spare kite]

Why not learn eos before the nerf happens

[steep heron]

i don't think momus itself is that badly balanced, i believe the hammer is completely broken

[strange kite]

if they nerf poseidon pan momus i dont even have another aspect leveled

[tall notch]

Level Eos

[strange kite]

ill do it if it gets buffed

[civic ocean]

Momus has pretty broken math

[tall notch]

You haven't even levelled it and already decided it's bad. It's in a different league to base torches power-level wise

[warped harness]

just lost to 0 heat chronos im washed

i hate this fight so much

[strange kite]

yeah and i havent leveled circe either i wonder why

[civic ocean]

Maybe u lost because it was 0

False sense of security

[ionic moon]

momus could probably be tuned a lot by lowering attack speed of the special

[tired fulcrum]

Shimmering moonshot hammer is also pretty broken

[strange kite]

damn i remember when i lost 2 runs to kronos on 11 heat

[carmine lagoon]

How tf does scorch work? Is it like Zeus in hades 1 where the damage applies each attack?

[warped harness]

i just struggle with that stupid suck move and how it just bugs out and turns instantly sometimes

[strange kite]

oh wow u got cooked by hacking kronos

[spare kite]

You have to not phase him during it to avoid the bug

[warped harness]

or the forward dashes i dont see coming because the boss arena

[mystic bison]

Tbh after lowering to 14 heat (40% speed, vow of wandering 25%, vow of forsaking and 7min timer) you really gain an appreciation to how chill the game is without fear modifiers

[warped harness]

it wasnt even phase, i think i got dd'd and he instantly hit me after

[strange kite]

the game is chill yeah

[spare kite]

Dds feel like they have awful iframes here

[strange kite]

except when my builds really really suck

[tired fulcrum]

Your attacks deal stacks of scorch which dont immediately do damage but are acculumated and are gradually consumed to deal 40 damage per second

[warped harness]

dds, and the dash feels awful still

[mystic bison]

@warped harness the suck phase is actually good because you get behind him for free hits - shouldn't be a problem unless on 40% speed and even then

His forward dashes you can cripple by putting on your cast

[steep heron]

yeah. i think if you get dd while he charges the instakill it doesn't stop the instakill timer and the dd animation doesn't let you move

[strange kite]

the suck phase is good until kronos becomes a hacker

[tall notch]

The suck becomes a problem when Chronos decides he's going to overlap the suck with some of his aoe moves

[warped harness]

ok and then i deal damage how with the axe?

[strange kite]

dood having the phase 2 overlap moves is so ridiculous

cover the whole map in time bubbles and start swinging

[spare kite]

For heartrob eos you don't want dire candle right

[strange kite]

like very cool i sure have room to dodge

[tall notch]

Is that rare Demeter attack the high boon count? 😭

[civic ocean]

It's actually the "weapon agnostic" Tranquil Gain

[mystic bison]

The suck phase is like the safest time to damage him, assuming you are spinning

And assuming you are spinning, I wouldn't recommend fighting Kronos unless you get a hammer to speed up your channel or Chaos blessings and such that have the same effect

[tall notch]

TRANQUIL GAIN META

[long hemlock]

[timber pawn]

@civic ocean okay trying aq scorch for the first time, got it online before sirens

[strange kite]

kronos phase 2 feels like an enrage burst check if u dont want to get slaughtered

[strange kite]

don’t even start on tranquil gain

[mystic bison]

Anyway people who say phase 2 kronos is easier are crazy

[mint halo]

"Just don't fight chronos"

[strange kite]

everybody knows that boon need a massive buff

[civic ocean]

Nice nice

[warped harness]

my whole build was focused on using the channel though

[slow crown]

can i get a breakdown how this works?

[strange kite]

it’s cuz they go from phase 1 enrage into phase 2 chill mode

[mint halo]

Imo it's build dependent

[timber pawn]

okay wow this slaps lol

[long hemlock]

phase 2 u can see everything very clearly

[warped harness]

i just didnt have enough damage to power through and i didnt take the tooth so i didnt have the health for the fight

[steep heron]

at normal speed i can see that, but at 40% the second half of the second phase is kinda crazy

[strange kite]

and then dont realize that the hard part of phase 2 comes when kronos summons all the adds and starts overlapping mechanics

[long hemlock]

comparatively

[civic ocean]

Im an old man and all the gold and brown blend together for me

[warped harness]

yeah 40% speed second half is nuts

[long hemlock]

phase 1 gives me a stroke if he starts teleporting

[strange kite]

phase 2 is cant see anything

kronos did the all clock hands aoe plus donut instant kill

[warped harness]

also wierdly enough i think demeter has been making chronos harder for me to fight

[steep heron]

when he summons the ⏳⏳⏳

[strange kite]

and i literally could not aee the donut

[mystic bison]

Yeah you can see 20 hourglasses rushing you, Kronos throwing his scythe and clock arrows turning in your direction 😂

[civic ocean]

It feels to me like if the jars and fire lasers from Hades were also snow coloured

[warped harness]

cause his timing is totally wack, he'll hold his attack for so long and i just dash and am punished

[long hemlock]

i mean whats phase 1 then lmao

[mystic bison]

Yep I play 40% speed

[tall notch]

40% speed triple slashes are a rhythm game

Is this what osu players deal with all the time?

[mystic bison]

Phase 1 you have nothing to distract you except for Kronos own moveset

[long hemlock]

im speaking from when u do it the 1st time, no one cares if u have farmed him 1000 times, the camera is terrible in phase 1 in ur 1st attempts til u realize u can kite him

[warped harness]

my fault his summons and banners dont exist in phase 1 you right

[long hemlock]

[mystic bison]

I am talking in general lol not the first time I beat him

I am also talking with 40% speed in mind

[long hemlock]

o sorry king i kneel

[warped harness]

i dont need to dps the rat men so they dont summon tiny rats whose hitboxes are the size of a pin head

[mystic bison]

?

[civic ocean]

Oh idk I thought 1st time I fought him that it wasn't too hard to kite him because I thought thats what Mel was about compared to Zag but I got got by the timing change at 50% hp

[tall notch]

When I was kiting Chronos it took me a moment to get used to the boomerangs, things had more range to them than I expected

[warped harness]

maybe i just need to fight chronos without demeter

[tall notch]

I love kiting btw, I'm a ranged player at heart

[warped harness]

i think that change in attack speed is what's absolutely killing me

also i kinda hope if they drop 4th aspects that they make one for the staff that focuses on attack builds

[tired fulcrum]

Aint that just eos

[spare kite]

Staff

[tall notch]

Hyper's talking about staff

[tired fulcrum]

oh

[mystic bison]

Attack staff has a lot of potential devs def need to give it some care

[tired fulcrum]

+30 base attack damage aspect incoming

[ionic moon]

still 2 more aspects per weapon, right?

[tall notch]

Circe is technically supposed to be the staff attack support (you can double your attacks, aoe and charge serenity) but it's just so underpowered

[strange kite]

yes. we need it

and just for good measure it should turn off omega attack and increase attack speed by 50%

[warped harness]

circe doesnt even feel like that

[spare kite]

Lmfao
About to fight sirens and didn't have a gain boon
Entered shop with 140 coins hoping for gold pots

[strange kite]

circe sounds like a bad joke

[warped harness]

circe do just feel bad

[mystic bison]

Flurry jab

[warped harness]

also nice toadally awesome pfp @strange kite

[spare kite]

Bought a mystery boon and from all people hera decides to appear

[strange kite]

did u get born gain?

[ionic moon]

circe feels fine conceptually, like if it required less attacks to enter serenity and serenity gave a damage buff instead of cast speed

[spare kite]

Yup

[tall notch]

Circe has potential but it would need a lot of love

[mystic bison]

Anyway Hestia has a pretty good gain boon

[steep heron]

rigged

[strange kite]

circe should just give infinite mana double damage and instant cast

[warped harness]

hestia is solid if u have the hp pool or skill to cope with it

[strange kite]

or like “every attack is a free full omega attack or special”

[mystic bison]

Without vow of blood or suffering hp isn't as precious

[strange kite]

that would be so goated

[spare kite]

this is torches so it was pretty much pos/hera gain or cry

[tall notch]

Someone earlier today suggested that serenity should change your moveset to something flashy and powerful and honestly I'm kinda digging that

[warped harness]

thatd be cool

[strange kite]

yesss

[spare kite]

how good is heph's gain for eos actually?

[strange kite]

give us burstwindow aspect

[warped harness]

serenity making alternate versions of your omega moves

[steep heron]

@tall notch you gonna still be an eos fan when they nerf hera mana boon?

[strange kite]

heph gain sounds so amazing for someone like me who face tanks mechanics

[tall notch]

It works but having to get hit is punishing as hell in higher fear

[strange kite]

too bad i dont like heph boons in general

[tall notch]

Yeah I did 40 fear without born gain

[warped harness]

eos isnt bad without born gain, but mel torches i fear for

[spare kite]

makes sense

[tall notch]

Heph's support stuff is amazing

[mystic bison]

No stagger or dash cancelling.. yeah mel torches are rough

[strange kite]

i tried iframing the instant kill but i noticed that the active frames seem to linger

[warped harness]

and you dont move while channeling the omega special

[strange kite]

so the instant kill is probably a lingering damage

[charred badge]

Has anyone tries Spiral Knives on the Twin Blades with the Aspect of Pan?

[warped harness]

which feels wierd considering the torches feel like they should be about constant movement and strafing

[strange kite]

which means either iframing is impossible or way tighter than i can perform

[strange kite]

yes its good

[tall notch]

I iframed the instakill on Chronos a few times but can't by any means get it consistent

[warped harness]

but the mel torches for you into this wierd unga bunga blow all my magick and pray playstyle, which is probably why ppl who play torch perfer eos afaik?

[strange kite]

its annoying in rooms cuz ur spread is so much wider but it’s so worth it

i never got it when i tried

[tall notch]

I played Mel torch special spam once and it's funny but I was missing the safety and free movement

[charred badge]

The Torches are weird. It doesn't feel fun to use them. Like, I'm locked in place, just holding a button down for chip damage?

[spare kite]

You can still dash with them

[strange kite]

get off torches and become a pan enjoyer

[sour cape]

Whats 1 boon Axe?

[tall notch]

Are you at +40% speed? If it's a lingering effect like you said then maybe it lingers shorter at higher speed

[steep heron]

sorceress arcana gives you some safety

[mystic bison]

Seems like a total waste of time to even try to learn it, totally not worth it

Wish we had a boss training room for stuff like this

[charred badge]

Idk how people get level 30 stuff on boons...

[strange kite]

it’s not 1 boon axe it’s u pick aphro or hera and u start clapping in erebus with big damage right away

[sour cape]

Does the Instant kill also break through armor?

Then def would be lingering if it does

[warped harness]

honestly i do like the eos torch playstyle a lot more

[strange kite]

i dont remember. i might have done it in a 20% speed run

[mystic bison]

Like even if there is no boss training room, why not add boss rush at least?

[tall notch]

It's the zeus/hera duos that make you sacrifice all boons from one god and pom the other god for each one sacrificed

[warped harness]

you have so much more control and freedom to choose how to position

[charred badge]

Oh

[strange kite]

become a pan enjoyer

[charred badge]

I didn't know that, and haven't gotten it.

[warped harness]

i kinda dislike this duo boon because its really funny but also really annoying if you did want to mix the two

[tall notch]

Not on Chronos and when you are trying to sit melee some stuff will still hit you during the slowdown

[strange kite]

just use pan and poseidon and win

[warped harness]

i remember thinking "oh, well i want to use the zeus cast for the than axe, so maybe ill mix it with hera- nevermind"

[mystic bison]

At this point spin axe is the only thing that sorceress is good for I think

[warped harness]

also the fact that its potentially going to appear on the wrong god for your build

[strange kite]

sorceress is so goated until u get to kronos and its like wow i dont have channel speed i cant do damage anymore on weapons like hammerless axe

[tall notch]

My biggest issue with Mel torches is that you want 100% melee uptime when you have the special circles around you but melee playstyles are just less safe than ranged in this game

[steep heron]

did they say when a balance patch might be coming?

[strange kite]

sorceress is good for daggers too

u can run up to stuff and shotgun without fear of getting hit

[mystic bison]

I run Pan without sorceress

[warped harness]

what is sorceress

[tall notch]

It's still useful in rooms and early bosses on things that omega channel but you can't just rely on it for the entirety of your run

[tired fulcrum]

No, only that theyre currently working on one

[zenith bolt]

melee playstyle when none of your attacks stagger, pog

[warped harness]

the channel timeslow?

[mystic bison]

Yes

[warped harness]

yeah it feels worthless most of the time

[strange kite]

i always keep it on cuz it makes the rest of the run that isnt kronos way smoother

nah it aint worthless it literally cc rverything

it’s like screenwide freeze basically

[tall notch]

I'll still take it on things that omega channel because it's so cheap and does have early game use

[mystic bison]

Yeah Mel Torches are too stressful

[strange kite]

just dont channel while enemies are spawning cuz that wastes time

wait for enemies to spawn then channel

[zenith bolt]

i really dont run sorceress unless im using it for divinity

[warped harness]

thats another thing i dont like

[strange kite]

u lose out on a small amount of time there but u gain time from uptime

[mystic bison]

That's why without sorceress you can channel while they are spawning and don't lose time

[long basalt]

I tried giving the Umbral Flames a chance, I really did.

But god do they just not feel as good.

Consistent damage slows you down. And, unlike the Skull Gun, it doesn't hit hard enough to make up for the slow attack speed.

[zenith bolt]

since im kinda charon-pilled now, the only place i'd even use it is pan

[strange kite]

then u have to dodge or u get interrupted when u channel

[warped harness]

i need to figure out what the good arcana combos are

[strange kite]

u lose more time without it

[timber pawn]

@civic ocean just finished the run, it was Eos and I actually never got a mana regen boon lol

[strange kite]

uptime=damage=faster

[mystic bison]

Idk I don't have that problem

Erebus is the only time intensive area even on 7min

[warped harness]

^

[tall notch]

This right here is what makes Eos so good btw, you can get very high uptime on enemies while also grabbing revenants on the way

It's not the absolute highest dps but it sure does hit high enough and has incredible uptime

[warped harness]

erebus is kinda long and filled with trash rooms, you end up with like a minute or two on the clock, but oceanus is wierd and really fast by comparison, and then fields is a cakewalk even though it being huge and sprawling would make you think otherwise maybe

[zenith bolt]

we're gonna kill you https://i.imgur.com/OXPalCc.png

[mystic bison]

Run over 😔

[strange kite]

i haaate ranged enemies that run away

[warped harness]

:( i love selene but i wish hexes were good

[spare kite]

Selene boss fight, if you flawless her she gets mad and stops appearing c1

[tired fulcrum]

Oceanus is short and you can save alot of time in fields with skips and minibosses

[warped harness]

hexes that aren't moon water-

[strange kite]

its so annoying like ffs stop running i cant kill u quickly if theres 4 of u on different sides of the room

[spare kite]

Me when hippos only room

[charred badge]

I like using the one the revives an enemy to fight for you

[tired fulcrum]

All my homies hate the hippos

[spare kite]

Hippos actually want me to be able to just play talos and yoink them lmao

[warped harness]

that one is fun but probably not the best for fear runs

[charred badge]

Especially on Polyphemus. You can kill one of the big barrel throwing guys, and bring them back to fight him

[mystic bison]

The worst part about Erebus that makes it so long is you don't have a build yet

[charred badge]

You can also use it on Roxy and Jetty

[strange kite]

poseidon special is a build fr fr

until u run out of mana on hecate then its a pain

[desert mist]

Does Blitz work on hit or damage?

Like does the thunderbolt finally hit when you do a specific amount of hits or damage?

[warped harness]

damage

[strange kite]

but if u get a good hammer or get mana regen arcana or boon ur just good

[charred badge]

On both. Deal 120 Damage, and then it'll deal X damage, based on the level of the boon

[warped harness]

i kinda wish the hex arcana was just like, free channel speed decrease

i think that'd be pretty rad

[tired fulcrum]

I need that

[warped harness]

that'd see actual use and it would justify the cost

[tall notch]

Don't they keep their fear modifiers? That would make ress better the higher up you go

[warped harness]

they probably do? idk

[tired fulcrum]

Fo2 +100% damage punchy guy

[tall notch]

I know that they keep blue hearts, haven't tested other stuff

[warped harness]

they likely do keep those bonuses then

except stuff like the 4x damage on first hit

[strange kite]

jesus imagine the hard labour 0 hit antler speedrun meta

“technically optimal”

[tired fulcrum]

Cast animation for hex is timeloss tho

[strange kite]

yo truuu

[tall notch]

On Chronos I guess you can do it during intermissions and not lose time

[strange kite]

i hate the cast animations. i think some are animationless?

but jesus why do they have a slow time thing randomly? that also gets u killed on kronos

[warped harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/578999400362278917/1242616906108764303/image.png?ex=664e7cad&is=664d2b2d&hm=8170a218fd623cd13922bd750e74993304ca38efc501dae3aa5f7dfe6919d0de& what should i upgrade next

[strange kite]

like why have a secret mechanic that is literally harmful?

[tired fulcrum]

If hexes were instant and gave iframes like calls did in 1 id use them a lot more

[strange kite]

hexes arent even anywhere near as good as calls

a call is 1 reward = full power while hex is like u need 2 rooms and a keepsake to get full power

[obsidian narwhal]

Is there an area to report bugs? I was fighting chronos and he did the start of the insta kill clock move (where you have to stand on a number) and then he just... didn't do it? Until about 30 seconds later but he lit up a different number on the clock...

[strange kite]

and its completely random if even that is enough

[slate yarrow]

you can use f10 in the game

[tall notch]

I've seen some crazy axe tech where you get perma time slowdown on axe by mixing the hex startup with special

[obsidian narwhal]

Ah ha

Both were active at the same time... needless to say I lost that run im really bummed

[tired fulcrum]

Theres a bug where the instakill vfx stays but it doesnt do anything

[covert jacinth]

Is there a restriction on how many different Gods I can get boons from in a single run?

[strange kite]

hey that’s just psychic sorceress with extra steps

[tired fulcrum]

God pool is 3 + hermes but you can force more in with keepsakes

[covert jacinth]

only 3?

Does that include Artemis?

[strange kite]

3 is enough

[tall notch]

No

[spare kite]

random thought but how possible is that they nerf heartrob pom scaling

[tired fulcrum]

Nty

[tall notch]

I'm not sure if it's that much of an issue. Part of what enables heartthrob being so ridiculous right now is born gain which is prob getting nerfed

[tired fulcrum]

Just buff other things to not have complete garbage pom gains

[tall notch]

And if someone is oneshotting by taking a boon, a duo that works with it, a million poms and enough mana to support the playstyle then they probably earned it

[zenith bolt]

cursed image https://i.imgur.com/nSuDna2.png

[sour cape]

Hmmm you think to fix Zeus mana, it could also reduce how much you reserve too?

[tall notch]

I think it should just apply to the mana left after priming

[sour cape]

Oh

[zenith bolt]

i think this is the most cursed image here https://i.imgur.com/nXV68ZO.png

[sour cape]

Yea that could work if it also updated with more priming

[covert jacinth]

No, as in, Artemis would take up 1 of 3 god slots right?
I assume Chaos and Moon don't count towards the god slots either though, similar to Hermes?

[warped harness]

theres no way 😭

[tired fulcrum]

Zeus could just prime a percentage of your remaining mana after everything else primes

[tall notch]

She doesn't count towards the god slots, she's closer to something like a random encounter that gives you a bonus than an actual god

[sour cape]

If you got 70 mana you still going down to 20 💀💀

[warped harness]

is excellence bad

[plain fossil]

Man i just tried a run without sprint arcana i actually cant play the game

[strange kite]

born gain is the best because other mana sources mostly suck with some exceptions

[sour cape]

Born Again is op

[plain fossil]

Im a spirit bubble enjoyer ngl

[covert jacinth]

Okay okay,
Another question, If I only have 1 Boon from a god, (Currently Demeter's Ring) and another God offers a Sacrifice for it (Currently Apollo trying to replace Demeter's Ring)
Will in this situation Demeter still be one of my 3 Gods, or will losing their 1 Boon cleanse me of them?

[sour cape]

The rest are fine cept for Zeus

[warped harness]

spirit bubble is nice

[sour cape]

And Demeter is big feel bad but I guess is fine

[spare kite]

stays in pool

[plain fossil]

Obviously born gain is broken but once it gets rekt i think poseidon gain might be #2

[strange kite]

the thing is born gain is a 1 boon god a lot of times

[tall notch]

I thiiiiiiink she remains in the pool but haven't tested

[sour cape]

Poseidon is pretty poor for axe though

[covert jacinth]

Thank you for your quick support everyone~

[atomic cypress]

what arcana setups do you white antler enjoyers use?

[strange kite]

born gain god without born gain would likely be extremely mid

[sour cape]

Born Again could prime a %

[strange kite]

i think its fine for the born gain god to have born gain cuz what else would u use the born gain god for?

[sour cape]

I mean Hitch is highest generic dmg boost without conditions

[strange kite]

1 op boon on an otherwise meh god is fine

[tall notch]

I mean Hera's core boons aren't bad. Hitch is good for clearing rooms, it's half the curses for origination and she has decent scaling

[sour cape]

and her Cast is good in some cases

[tired fulcrum]

Hitch is good yeah

[tall notch]

Oh yeah Hera cast is speedrun meta too apparently?

[strange kite]

hitch is decent

wtf how does that even work?

[forest veldt]

#h2-victory-boasting message
there are perma 30 hp options too, this most comfy imo

[tall notch]

It melts rooms in Erebus and Oceanus

[sour cape]

Hera is fine without op Born Again, only one higher than Hera is Aphro but she has the up close condition

[strange kite]

like the cast just instant kills?

[sour cape]

Also insta kills Hecate summons apparently

[plain fossil]

Poseidon is really good for thanatos its bad for charon obviously

[tall notch]

Yeah pretty much. If you drop it before a Hecate transition it'll straight up oneshot all the witches for example

[strange kite]

yo i wanna try that

[tired fulcrum]

Hera cast is like what 80 or 100 at common lvl 1. Most erebus enemies just get oneshot

[strange kite]

do u neeed rarity or poms?

[plain fossil]

Yea i can see it on low fear where mobs dont have shield or any hp

[strange kite]

obviously i can rarify the common cast

[plain fossil]

Its 80 p sure

[lost shell]

recommend me some skull builds that are legit very strong

[strange kite]

wait i dont think 100 damage is enough to 1 shot most enemies but it might be enough to put them into 1 shot range or something

[plain fossil]

Its good at fish on low fear lul

[spare kite]

good enough for hec's witches and infinite fish rooms

[forest veldt]

its enough for a lot on first floor, not armor tho

[sour cape]

yea good at killing Scyllas fish

[strange kite]

i might have to go hera into poseidon instead of poseidon into hera if it’s too good

[plain fossil]

Are u doing low fear speedruns

[forest veldt]

more feels good than strong imo. can make last boss annoying wo/ main boon

[strange kite]

yeah i wanna get sub 10 on low fear pan

[forest veldt]

u can try, pos feels much better imo

[strange kite]

i guess ill stick with poseidon

[forest veldt]

hera cast also falls off since lose easy curse

[strange kite]

i dont like the cast for pan

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1242620782077677678/image.png?ex=664e8049&is=664d2ec9&hm=044a319e64de3a821d355ffe07981cdc3021e2a7a07168048de561b6a0d69693& big orbs

[strange kite]

cuz i want to replace the cast

[forest veldt]

ya the extra duraton can kinda suck

[plain fossil]

The good thing about hera cast for pan is it evaporates bosses

[tall notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijmdjt6FpOM this momus run I found demonstrates Hera meta

They do replace it late game

[plain fossil]

Like u can just spam channel knives and the boss lasts 10 seconds

[strange kite]

why cant we have boon selling

smh it would be so nice to be able to sell boons

[spare kite]

I have 0 clue why we don't have pool of purging

[strange kite]

what happened to capitalism?

[spare kite]

inb4 is locked behind the 3rd biome upstairs lmao

[warped harness]

do yall know about the anti-synergy with the mel skull and full salvo

none of the skulls get the damage bonus wierdly enough

[spare kite]

that sounds like an f10 moment

[fair spear]

Attempting Medea skull for the first time, is there a good sprint build to go along with?

[forest veldt]

think its intended, just anti synergy. apollo 2nd cast not getting bonus sounds more like bug tho

[tired fulcrum]

None at all? I thought it capped at +40

[strange kite]

i dont actually know best speedrun strat for pan but now that i unlocked strength imma try that.

[forest veldt]

doesn't cap, it scales w/ more skulls too

[forest veldt]

pretty much same as momus iirc

[strange kite]

yeah i just cant antler

[warped harness]

poseiden, poseiden legendary focus and apollo legendary if you can

[strange kite]

and pan isnt as safe as momus i think

[forest veldt]

its much easier if u do 100 hp at least and strength so its 60 not 30hp

[strange kite]

yo apollo legendary makes 0 sense

[warped harness]

it doesnt cap, but all 3 skulls fire at 50 damage

i couldnt tell you why but it made me really sad

[strange kite]

i hate it the requirements are literally impossiblr

[warped harness]

amazing hammer for medea skull but awful for mel skull

[strange kite]

u need 3 different boons its so wild

[tired fulcrum]

Wait oh full salvo was fire all at once not the + ammo

[tall notch]

Aren't most legendaries like this

[warped harness]

yeah not the + ammo

bigger array or whatever works v well with both skulls

[tired fulcrum]

I think all the legendaries have 3 preqs

[strange kite]

that’s why ive never seen a legendary in my life

[tall notch]

Not even the Pos one?

[strange kite]

nope

i dont take the wall one

unless i have nothing else

[tall notch]

Think of it as an investment

[strange kite]

also its like bugged or something i heard

so i dont want it

[crimson wraith]

They're easier to acquire if you're specifically planning for them, i.e. using god keepsakes, reserving slots, etc.

[zenith bolt]

hera + demeter on eos is the way, i think https://i.imgur.com/vxMDlDP.png

[crimson wraith]

Also, you can use the fear modifier that removes unchosen boons from that god's boon pool to fish for legendaries by eliminating the other options

[warped harness]

hera demeter just semengly is the way

[crimson wraith]

I won with Eos + Coarse Grit just earlier today

[spare kite]

what is this scam

[tall notch]

!!!!!!!!!!

[zenith bolt]

(+ this has the synergy of weed killer + born gain, for giga damage)

[tall notch]

I'm careful with weed killer on Eos, it's possible to OOM with that thing 😭

[zenith bolt]

ok cool so the total eclipse impervious does allow you to tank instakills

total eclipse remains the only other good hex after moon water

[limber mesa]

Does anyone know what this thing on the shovel is? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/750515100326035459/1242623815973077022/image.png?ex=664e831c&is=664d319c&hm=1083470e46b2969e72c196e5ae6b56fe600c16bb09d80a35ba88f48a119bba57&

[zenith bolt]

it means one of your forget-me-nots uses a plant obtained from using the shovel

[limber mesa]

Ah, okay. Thanks! Thought it was a special modifier or something.

[strange kite]

is that an upgrade?

and does the invuln from dark side still not work?

[zenith bolt]

yea it's one of the bright upgrades for total eclipse https://i.imgur.com/WVs2DBd.png

and idk about dark side bc i hate it and never use it

[strange kite]

saaaame

[tall notch]

I'll forever remain a ress believer

[strange kite]

why cant they make darkside feel like diablo 3 archon good

more than torches and circe i think hexes most desperately needs a buff

okay maybe not more than circe

[tough vapor]

Is there any purpose at all for ash after you unlock all your cards?

[zenith bolt]

ash can be spent for shadow which is used for moon dust

[strange kite]

a few incantations need ash

[zenith bolt]

after you get all your moon dust though it's kinda ???

[tall notch]

Take Hera-Apollo duo + ress hex + skull and Mel becomes a necromancer

[strange kite]

but like ash is never the bottleneck there

[zenith bolt]

https://i.imgur.com/uyFtqB1.png idk what to do with this all now lol

[tired fulcrum]

Wait until next update where they add alternate arcana

[zenith bolt]

if you insist

my real flex is my 27 dark though https://i.imgur.com/DCIooCx.png

[tall notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927694753116614746/1242123284783435776/image.png?ex=664e0274&is=664cb0f4&hm=832783ce3e53610c4282fd8918f5f3215d8e629f166ab43382d616308b7394cb& I have a problem

[zenith bolt]

lol

rn im just stockpiling nightmare for future use

assuming hidden aspect use nightmare (and use the same amount of nightmare), we're going to need 8x7 for every aspect that's going to be added (this includes the two normal, non-mel aspects that will be on the 6th weapon)

though it's actually 50 given testaments for the 6th weapon will give 6 nightmare

[tall notch]

Btw, does anyone with a high night count on their save file (above 512) have issues with their game crashing whenever they try to talk to the run history shade?

[strange kite]

i haaaate the testament system

[zenith bolt]

how tf do you have >512 nights

[tall notch]

I'm getting crashes on my main save whenever I try but when I checked that speedrun save without centaur it worked fine

[tall notch]

At least half ended in Erebus

[strange kite]

lul i only have like 60 maybe

[sour cape]

How you have 500 nights?

[strange kite]

i complete every run i start except like 1

[zenith bolt]

i have 174 with my... extremely normal play time https://i.imgur.com/7w7K9Mt.png

[sour cape]

👀👀

[warped harness]

where have you been farming the nightmare?

[zenith bolt]

dark thirst + toula + fishing rod, bone farm, buy from broker

[tropic prairie]

During the chronos fight, do you guys know exactly what moves chronos makes? I've fought him twice now, and as far as I can tell, he dashes forward, and his trail causes damage; he does a scythe attack, the trail of which also causes damage, he sucks you in while defending against you, he teleports from his current position while releasing a time dome at that position, and he has some spheres circling him? I didn't get what the last attack did but am I missing something?

[rocky talon]

depends on which phase you are

[tall notch]

I'm a 5 min timer enjoyer, Selene or bad hammer starts are a reset 😭

[tropic prairie]

?

[strange kite]

haelian has a video

[zenith bolt]

i wrote out a thing for my own notes that has every attack he does

[tropic prairie]

Should probably check that out

[rocky talon]

alot to list out tbh, recommend watching the video that captainfail recommended but one thing to keep note of is his behavior changes quite a bit from the first and second phase so keep that in mind

[zenith bolt]

in my notes i have him down as 16 different attacks across both phases, discounting combos (e.g. swipe -> swipe -> charge) and counting every "summoning reinforcements" attack as one

[strange kite]

bad hammers are why i think axe needs buff and why pan is best and why i think momus is lowkey almost balanced

momus needs either shimmering or double to be super strong. and double to melt bosses super quickly

[tall notch]

I mean wouldn't you reset with Pan if you got three attack hammers on 5 min timer?

[strange kite]

uh probably not?

[rocky talon]

not really daggers as a base weapon are still really strong, you can make it work

[strange kite]

depending on heat ofc

[tall notch]

I'm thinking like above 32

[rocky talon]

and pan even without buffs are busted LOL

[strange kite]

but also i dont play 5 minute timer

[rocky talon]

EHHH ok then it kinda becomes iffy at 32 heat 5 min, it's possible but probably not worth it because your run can be dead soon after if you dont get anything

[zenith bolt]

real ones do 49 fear spirit surge 15 hour run

[strange kite]

i think for me cuz i run onion the 5 minute timer is pretty deadge anyways

[tall notch]

EW onion

[strange kite]

luuul

[rocky talon]

well run is dead with onion if you dont immediately get something good after LOL

[wise nest]

Genuine question, why is scorch in every single way worse than poseidon flat damage

[tall notch]

I tried running it and it was slowing me down so much it made 7 min timer feel as tight as 5 mins without it

[zenith bolt]

doesnt onion kinda mandate artificer or do you just ball regardless

[strange kite]

i turn off rev

[wise nest]

I just don't get why the non-aoe, damage over time, more-demanding status effect does less damage than the aoe, instant damage, more consistent damage source

[strange kite]

and i think artificer/charon rerolls is a good way to deal with onion too

[rocky talon]

ehh not really you can do it but it's really rng dependent, artificer just makes it consistent

[strange kite]

i couldnt afford artificer at 29 grasp

and i dont have it leveled anyways so whatever

[bleak night]

Yeah, it costs a lot

[zenith bolt]

artificer setup kinda like https://i.imgur.com/LZ5ug3s.jpeg i guess

swift runner/sorceress flexible

[strange kite]

damn no origination

[zenith bolt]

just drop furies and swift runner for it then idk

or boatman and go 6 rerolls which is kinda stinky but w/e

[tall notch]

No boatman hurts at 5 minutes timer so much

Having guaranteed money for that midshop makes so much difference

[strange kite]

whats ur arcana and do u take money heat?

i dont want to drop the sprint

[tall notch]

I take the money heat and the exact arcana setup depends on weapon

And whether I'm antler gaming or not

[strange kite]

i take the 40% money heat

and i highly value not restarting lul

[tall notch]

With boatman you're guaranteed to afford the midshop at 80% money heat which is such good early game value

[strange kite]

well i restart if i forget to take keepsake

thats the one situation where i just give up and do the run again with proper keepsake

[tall notch]

Giving up and restarting are different, for a restart you need to let the mobs kill you so that the seed resets properly

[strange kite]

ik but im giving up at the start of a run so it’s same thing for me

and it doesnt matter either way cuz i dont do a death run first cuz im not recording for submissions

[tall notch]

Btw the way restarts work are one of the reasons why I like running antler, low hp makes restarts so fast lol

[strange kite]

oh actually if u like room 1 and ur not doing a submission

u can give up and it changes everything starting from room 2

meaning u can actually fish for a good room 1 for non speedrun submissions

[tough vapor]

anyone else think that the killer sheep in polythemus fight hits a lil too fast and hard

[strange kite]

yes

[spare kite]

green sheep are the spawn of the devil

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1242632700603404288/image.png?ex=664e8b62&is=664d39e2&hm=eb529165b60ee3a93a5269909ea160e0bedad8b6b70a40d12f9bfca0c0fcf271& I think I'm actually about to pull off the sheet for forsaking runs lmfao

[tall notch]

When I'm doing these 40 runs I do wanna record and submit them

[tall notch]

Pencil meta for vow of forsaking about to become a reality?

[zenith bolt]

hmm axe omega special seems invincible for longer than it lets on

[sour cape]

Invicible?

[zenith bolt]

the whole lifting up the axe (after shielding, but before the actual attack happens) seems to be completely invincible

this part of the animation https://i.imgur.com/ZUpuVUU.png

[tall notch]

Axe has so much tech like this it's crazy

Axe mains really are playing a different game than the rest of us

[regal arrow]

Zeus cast is really a boss destroyer, no?

[tall notch]

Yeah it goes kinda hard, especially if your weapon synergises with it

[warped harness]

oh wait zeus cast is that good?

[wise nest]

I'd really love if basic axe attacks did more damage, as it is cool combos with shield cancelling are just nowhere near the damage of funny spin or omega special spam

[regal arrow]

It's the only part of the boons along with dash/sprint that I don't bother much with, but it's actually nice

I should experiment with cast boons and sprint boons

[tall notch]

It's pretty solid damage

[timber pawn]

were you able to test someone elses file?

[zenith bolt]

wow i really got every hammer i could want https://i.imgur.com/5H9so7G.png

[timber pawn]

thats wild for a charon run

[tall notch]

Yeah I tested the speedrun save file and it works

[zenith bolt]

won run now https://i.imgur.com/UBn3eF0.png

[mystic bison]

Bro Dire Candle gotta be the worst hammer in this game wtf

Top 3 at least

Never taking Icarus keepsake on the torches again

[vale shard]

Is the highest damaging cast is it not?

[warped harness]

apollo

[tall notch]

Apollo's might hit harder but Zeus doing his hits the moment you finish channeling is really nice

[vale shard]

Pretty sure zeus does more single target dmg

[tall notch]

For bosses that like to move and for general room control

[plain fossil]

Thats right, she is only vulnerable to blockable hits at the very last few ticks of the omega special as the axe comes down

[vale shard]

Apollo is just great aoe

[charred flame]

That's hilarious man I wish I had that build going

[zenith bolt]

lol. https://i.imgur.com/2WGQzd3.png

[tall notch]

???

[zenith bolt]

trial of the gods

[tall notch]

Oh

[tired fulcrum]

Apollos has duos that boost it by a lot though and also supernova making it fill the whole room

[zenith bolt]

pretty cracked run overall https://i.imgur.com/OTUsuIR.jpeg

[warped harness]

fun fact, the chronos instakill aoe lingers

[plain fossil]

Zeus cast does a lot more damage to exactly one target than apollo unless u have zeus infusion, lv1 zeus common is 360 total damage and apollo is like 130 or something

[warped harness]

who thought that was ok

[plain fossil]

If u have zeus infusion then apollo wins but its pretty close

[tired fulcrum]

I think it would be easier going for the duo than the infusion

[plain fossil]

Its just zeus gets trashcan pretty quick if theres adds

[zenith bolt]

blackened fleece is kind of a cracked keepsake tbh

[tired fulcrum]

Actually how much does the duo add its like 15 ticks of 50 damage i think aka 750

[mystic bison]

2 runs in a row Selene start....

[zenith bolt]

bc if you're not taking enough damage by tartarus to use it, then your run probably doesn't care about it anyway, and if you have taken enough damage, then it's a pretty nice damage boost

[bleak night]

You've been loving Charon gameplay, I see

[zenith bolt]

it's a fun wep

[bleak night]

I'm still practicing Mel no Mana, taking a while to get it down

[warped harness]

is Stardust only for beast morsels and moonlit essence?

[zenith bolt]

upgrading eternity to rank 3 uses 1 but otherwise yeah

[warped harness]

is the hera legendary any good

[warped harness]

mel no mana?

[bleak night]

Mel Axe with no mana, so I'm just relying on swings and parrying with shield. It's kinda rough

[tired orbit]

so what aspects are considered the best for each weapon?

[warped harness]

momus for the staff definitely, pan knives, eos torches, axe is a tossup between charon and than i believe? and medea for the skull

[tall notch]

Does Mel mess with the timings for all the wild combos you're doing?

[bleak night]

Not particularly. I'm just finding Axe tough to use without Omegas, and I'm trying to perish the idea of holding Attack to go for a spin because it makes me do a Big Chop, which is just detrimental. I'm pretty much needing to relearn the weapon so I can try super high Fears on it, 45+

I'm trying my hand at 49, the no timer one with my Arcana purged. It's helping me learn to get hit less and what to prioritize. It's really weak to banshees, I gotta say

[tall notch]

How do you deal with the banshees? Do you need freeze?

[bleak night]

I have to save Cast, whether it has Freeze or not, once they're in range, then I need to fast combo to break blue hearts and reposition so that my basic swings hit them at the edge, or I will 100% eat damage from them

[plain fossil]

Mel axe no spin versus shields, we got a masochist over here

[tall notch]

Blue shields on axe in general sound like masochism

[tired orbit]

how do i medea skull without getting hit like a dumb git?

[bleak night]

It's also a great learning experience to understand its limits. I don't really go in to win, just see how far I go

[bleak night]

Probs watch some Medea Skull speedruns, best use a visual aid for it

[tall notch]

I'm garbage at Medea but I believe you want to freeze stuff

[bleak night]

It's mostly timing, if anything

[tall notch]

Don't speedrunners tank hits because health is a resource for them though

[tired orbit]

Oh, thats an obvious answer that didnt occur to me. @bleak night

that was sincere mind you, not sarcasm

[bleak night]

Once they run White Antler, they stop trying to get hit. So he can probs look at the gameplay after that

[tired orbit]

that sounds very gitgud tryhard, not 'I can barely beat chronos'

[bleak night]

I wish Axe had speedrun gameplay but the weapon isn't built for it

[tired orbit]

tasteful and elegant, like a spinny arthur

[plain fossil]

I actually cannot deal with not having the sprint arcana idk how ppl cope all my dash timing is wrong

[covert jacinth]

I imagine I'm not alone on this thought, but maybe I'm just Bad, who knows,
But the GoldWrath (The miniboss money bag enemy)
They are basically run ruining for me no matter what,
Their Laser Moves far too fast, and it also hurt far too fast,
Unless you're right beside him, the Laser moves faster than you do (sprinting)
And once it hits you, it appears to do 13 Damage per hit, multiple times per second.

[plain fossil]

Ye ur not supposed to get hit by lasers

[bleak night]

My main issue with boss Goldwrath is how tanky it is for no reason

[plain fossil]

Agree, i dont typically click miniboss in tartarus unless i have armour break

[bleak night]

I think it has like 5k armour

[covert jacinth]

I'm aware of that much.. I described more than just "Ow ow lasers hurt" though..

[plain fossil]

It has closer to 10k u can see with armour break hammers

[spare kite]

I saw 8k iirc

[tender flint]

anyone know aspect of chiron boons and arcana cards

[bleak night]

Why does it have Chronos phase 2 HP

[covert jacinth]

But just saying "Don't get hit" can apply to anything, much as it just doesn't too

[plain fossil]

U also said how to not eat the lasers tho, stand close and take advantage of its mediocre turnrate

[bleak night]

Chiron or Charon ?

[plain fossil]

But not on top of it or u eat coins

[spare kite]

I really love that now chiron is the typo

[covert jacinth]

except it's turnrate isn't "mediocre", thats also something I'd mentioned

[bleak night]

Chiron Bow was fun in 1 though

[spare kite]

Ehhhh, but what I mean is people saying charon bow in H1 lmao

[tender flint]

charon

[bleak night]

Apollo on Cast + Zeus' Lightning Lance. You'll want Zeus on Special as well. Try to go for the Apollo-Zeus duo. If you want a specific 3rd god, Hera has the best mana regen for it. Aside from that, try to go for Apollo's legendary since it can double your Shield Blasts

Demeter is always quite good as a 3rd god option

[plain fossil]

It is mediocre, u stand close to it then dash behind when its about to laser u

If u get caught far from it u can sometimes use terrain to block it

[tender flint]

anything for the arcana or do what eve

[bleak night]

Just do classic reroll + take Sorceress and make sure to get Arcana XIV, which boosts Cast damage by 100

[plain fossil]

I take way more damage from coins than i do from laser on that boss, i understand that it feels hard when learning - i've been there - but stand closer and be ready to move behind it

[bleak night]

Basic core for Charon in terms of damage is Furies (6) and Moon (14)

[plain fossil]

Actually the #1 hades 1 bad habit i had to unlearn in general is also pretty useful on goldbag boss, and its try not to dash away if u can help it

[bleak night]

I need loadouts for Arcana so bad

[plain fossil]

U dont have the dashes in this game to do that

[bleak night]

That or you can copy paste loadouts you can store in a Notepad or something

[plain fossil]

Like if something is telegraphed its almost always better to iframe it or dash through if u can rather than dashing away and putting ur dash on cd for a sec

[strange kite]

i cant find a single loadout that feels really good

cuz i hate not having mana regen. im playing without it but jesus it sucks so much for erebus and hecate

i like charon and rerolls but theyre not even leveled so that sucks too

[tender flint]

same

[zenith bolt]

i dont like unseen

[strange kite]

and going strength feels like i need to take moon cuz that’s all i can fit my remaining points into to be effective

[zenith bolt]

5 cost is a lot for an effect that isnt nearly as potent as boatman or excellence

[bleak night]

Needs a bit more grasp

[strange kite]

30 graps feels bad

[plain fossil]

I would like god keepsakes to be less impactful i think so i dont feel bad for clicking an earlygame trinket like wheel or hp in act 1

[strange kite]

nah god keepsake giving consistency is good

[zenith bolt]

the solution here is to buff other keepsakes, not nerf god keepsakes

[strange kite]

cuz u have to realize that by taking a non god keepsake u can highroll pretty hard into the god u want

[plain fossil]

Idk i think if u do that everyone still clicks god keepsakes

[strange kite]

yes because consistency good i hate losing runs

theyre meant to be always good choice

[bleak night]

They should allow Ghost Onion to heal you through Vow of Scars,

[strange kite]

while some keepsakes are meant to be more situational/high roll

[plain fossil]

I mean so do i but im not sure the game needs as much consistency as it has atm

[strange kite]

wdym? the game doesnt have enough consistency

hammer rng is so stupid

[plain fossil]

Like with a 3 god pool u can basically guarantee what ur gonna get unless ur build need hammers

[strange kite]

and u can get some crazy bad rng on what boons get offered when

like first got refusing to give u the gud stuff

or hera refusing to give the born gain after rerolls

and then theres chaos rng

[cursive oyster]

what’s the current meta 32 fear setup

[strange kite]

which is absolutely wild

momus special poseidon

[cursive oyster]

oh i knew that i meant oath, sorry

[plain fossil]

Idk i think its generally too easy to pretty much get what u want every time unless u need a specific hammer or ur doing some wacky meme setup that needs all duos and legendaries and whatnot

[strange kite]

uh that depends on what u hate and like dealing with but i would say always take the mana heat and the blue hp heat and the 100% damage on first hit heat and the 40% speed heat and less healing and more charon cost

[cursive oyster]

man i miss em, made heat in h1 so much easier

[plain fossil]

Also max more health i think is an always take

[strange kite]

i think it’s very consistent to get a basic setup that wins but inconsistent at the super powerful setups that needs like a hammer or a chaos

[cursive oyster]

wdym max more health

[strange kite]

enemy max health

[cursive oyster]

definitely not

[strange kite]

3 heat for 30% more health

wdym definitely not?

[plain fossil]

I always click this one

[strange kite]

it’s good heat.

[cursive oyster]

yeah i’d rather not give chronos like 6k more max health

[strange kite]

who cares

kronos isnt gonna do anything with 6k more health lul

[plain fossil]

U could make an argument that it makes timer too hard if ur on 5 minute timer maybe?

[strange kite]

its better than kronos doing more damage or having to deal with fifty billion spawns in erebus

[winged gazelle]

Thats like one more charged sprcial

[strange kite]

yeah but like if ur on 5 minute timer u dont need that heat

[cursive oyster]

take more damage and maybe go for demeter infusion?

[strange kite]

u could do that

but like not on momus lul

[cursive oyster]

i like demeter on momus attack/cast

[strange kite]

its too inconsistent and u get it late

and u need to be way more careful in rooms

[cursive oyster]

fair but freeze and chill helps with origination

[strange kite]

yeah but have u read freexe and chill boons?

[cursive oyster]

yes

[strange kite]

read it closely

[cursive oyster]

wdym

[strange kite]

and u should see the problem with ur idea

[plain fossil]

They probably mean chill and cyclone

[cursive oyster]

and freeze

[strange kite]

yes i mean freeze chill and cyclone

u cant do what ur planning with those boons

[cursive oyster]

freeze procs origination on its cooldown

[strange kite]

it just doesnt work. u need other stuff

yes i know how origination works

[cursive oyster]

what is the problem

[plain fossil]

Or do u mean theyre not earth boons so its hard to activate coarse grit

[cursive oyster]

ohh that i get

[plain fossil]

Which is reasonable, demeter does have some okay earth boons so its not impossible but i dont usually aim for coarse grit on momus

[strange kite]

its much easier dealing with more hp kronos cuz like u get 100 more health off water infusion and like kronos is gonna take longer to kill u so u have enough time to chew through kronos

[cursive oyster]

all I remember about bonus max health was that it was awful in h1

[strange kite]

max health is great

[plain fossil]

Its also not really necessary as if ur demeter momus ur safe anyway

[cursive oyster]

ill try it

[strange kite]

30% for 3 whole hear

its easier to do 7 minute with 30% health than 5 minute without but the 5 minute timer is still a fine alternative

also u can take zeus on this build

pretty good cuz u can get the chain ljghtning and 0 mana damage and its like free dps

the only downside to zeus is u dont get the free scorch curse that hestia can give u

or u can just say whatever and grab chaos in act 2 hope for some good chaos stuff

lots of options on momus. one keepsake thats really good is a max level hammer on act 3

makes it easier to get double moonshot

[zenith bolt]

❌ wanting a good hammer from icarus keepsake = you get a run-killing one

desire sensor is listening

[high dagger]

The sirens are kicking my ass ;-;

[wet nova]

There are barely any run killing hammers in the game

[high dagger]

I have gotten them to like 4 hp THEN I DIE like 6 times

Must work on my dodging skills lol!

[zenith bolt]

why is there only 1 water infusion when there's 3 earth, 2 air, and 2 fire

[ionic moon]

because Athena and Dio will be water, trust

[bleak night]

They'll balance those out eventually

[civic ocean]

My theory on that is that is that water elemental stuff is all really strong individually - Poseidon's stuff is crazy obviously but water is also all of Aph and Demeter's attack/special

So they made water weaker infusion wise

[zenith bolt]

decided to get a list of everything element/infusion-wise https://i.imgur.com/sQLxDeX.png
(aether excluded from element listing bc every god except hermes/artemis have it)

[bleak night]

probs important to write that Hermes only has 1 fire

[civic ocean]

And that Narc can give 2x of each

[bleak night]

so he isn't entirely relied on to meet fire infusion requirements

[zenith bolt]

too lazy to put in every little detail given it's mainly just for my notes

[bleak night]

ah, fair

[civic ocean]

If you haven't lost a DD yet I think Narc is like 33% or something

[amber stream]

Random bit of air quality math that doesn't involve scorch with lim and oros
Lim and Oros vanilla do 6 hits in each combo. 20, 20, 10-10-10, 30 for 80 total
Air quality boosts that up to 180
Chain lightning prime boosts that to 360 (15x6 raised to 30 x 6)

Hm, pity, that's actually worse than I thought it would be

[civic ocean]

You also have to go out of your way completely to not give yourself any buffs whatsoever

[amber stream]

Yeah

[bleak night]

the Narcissus one is nice, yeah

[civic ocean]

But Air Quality is pretty good on some stuff

Support Fire
Passiom Dash
Solar Ring
Chain Lightning
Thunder Sprint
Frigid Sprint
Gale Force

And then obviously scorch

[bleak night]

does Passion Dash not do at least 30 ?

[civic ocean]

Common is 20 each

[amber stream]

Pashion dash at common is 20

[bleak night]

oh, I see

I haven't used that in a while, even if it's buffed compared to the Hades 1 version

[amber stream]

I think it's still pretty good on daggers, just not as good as I was hoping it would be, then again especially if you're doing aspect of Mel against Scylla that's still quite wonderful

It means you're guaranteed to proc blitz in a single combo even if you have to cancel out the final 30 hit

[civic ocean]

It's actually really good on non momus staff if you take scorch on special because not only does the scorch tick up but you also increase the special power from 10 to 30

[amber stream]

And then with chain lightning that procs blitz twice, and attack blitz usually effectively doubles your damage if not more

[civic ocean]

If you get support fire chain lightning and scorch on like Mel staff special you start doing insane damage without taking any % boons

[timber pawn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1242662684428865638/image.png?ex=664ea74f&is=664d55cf&hm=5e8579cfb0ba4ed933953fe1c96d95593a9f3b16bad49fce2ccf714105e08280&

step 1 towards all aspects done. my 2nd skull aspect

32 persephone was literally just engagement ring for biome 1/2 and then aphro special for the rest lol

[slate zodiac]

Lmao, we got a "h2" at the start of each channel now

[amber stream]

I just hate special based builds because it hurts my ring finger and I have RMB set to special lol

[civic ocean]

Yeah that Boron person completely flipped my perspective on Engagement Ring

[timber pawn]

it demolishes the hecate fight by itself which is honestly super important. So many of my 5 min timer runners died there to chasing witches

[civic ocean]

Think for the SS build I want to incorporate it alongside heph attack

Or special

[timber pawn]

ya I intentionally went for 300% first hit and put heph on for oceanus

which worked swimmingly

with this build I could've gone heph magic regen I think

also managed to get course grit with my 1 demeter boon I forced in the fields lol

[strange kite]

fortunately momus has 0 run killers or even harmful hammers

[zenith bolt]

true

[strange kite]

because momus is a good weapon unlike axe

[neon crypt]

What is the best way to build up Glory? I want to get better with Persephone, but I'm struggling.

[zenith bolt]

axe only get run-killer if you play axe spin

its ok charon is cooler

[timber pawn]

Ill be honest I fully ignored it and just played it as '30% stronger omega specials'. You could probably go for a build focusing on omega attack where you'd want the rocket bombard hammer and probably more ammo or the shotgun hammer.

or thirdly you could sort of ignore the weapon and go for an omega cast build with zeus cast, which can also work

[neon crypt]

ah I see lol

[zenith bolt]

wtf 2 voidskates this run

feesh https://i.imgur.com/x7INCNO.png

[timber pawn]

ya fwiw glory does build up quite slow at the moment, we don't know anything balance wise but I wouldn't be shocked if this aspect was tweaked a bit

[strange kite]

glory is so annoying cuz its like wait why am i zooming in dont need to zoom right now

i dont know how to make it not happen

so it just happens at the most random times and throws me off

id rather have like another 10% omega damage over glory lul

WAIT does the skull omega special let u invuln the instant kill?

[neon crypt]

I don't know what I want to level up first, Persephone or Medea. I've heard Medea can be really good if used right. But right now I'm just terrible with skulls overall.

[empty salmon]

hey! i was doing the chaos trials and when i kill the boss it drops the nightmare material probably for my testaments but i cannot claim because chaos brings me back to reality. any idea on what happened to that nightmare material?

[timber pawn]

honestly my first 32 fear run with skulls was mel aspect. my success with skulls has generally been around find a strong attack/special and then stack survivability through demeter and heph boons like winter coat and trusty shield

[timber pawn]

I think unfortunately it goes into the void

[zenith bolt]

i doubt it but you could try

[strange kite]

hera dem heph could be good for skull probably

cant possibly be bad with born gain coarse grit and random heph crap

but not very fast i feel

[tired fulcrum]

Probably. Even dash can iframe it

[oak ginkgo]

So it turns out pan blades with aphro attack, Zeus special plus chain lightning is absolutely bonkers

[zenith bolt]

hera dem is kinda just cracked in general

[covert jacinth]

What Sacrifice Boon options are there that aren't just Replacing your 5 Specific Boon slots?

Any?

[zenith bolt]

no

[neon crypt]

Chain lightning is good with everything i feel lol

[tired fulcrum]

Theres hestia but shouldnt count for the hera thing

[covert jacinth]

Darn

[strange kite]

i dont like chain lightning cuz it. doesnt do enough for the mana cost and taking zeus for that alone seems bad on everything except momus

[zenith bolt]

i got the holy trinity https://i.imgur.com/l45ZbHq.png

[oak ginkgo]

True, but still it feels almost like cheating

[strange kite]

i mean if it shows up and my mana pool is big enough ill take it but not a huge fan

[spare kite]

Wouldn't the trinity be spiral instead of sure shot

[zenith bolt]

i like sureshot more but yeah fair

[strange kite]

sure shot actually makes room clearing harder lul

[zenith bolt]

i like it for single target damage mainly