h2-discussion

[ashen hollow]

I noticed how scared they are of poseidon being good

[marsh spear]

It's they're child/selves

[uneven gulch]

poseidon gives you a fancy water balloon

[sleek oar]

Tbf i would consider chaos a horror w the way they hold their dead head 🙂

[neon isle]

personally id let chaos hit

[ashen hollow]

Like all of his duo are unreasonably mediocre compared to the bs that other duos can get

[humble urchin]

it’s chaos what else do you expect from them

[marsh spear]

It's like a lava lamp. But with water

[limpid oar]

uhhhhhhhh is it normal that Scylla sometimes just gets the zoomies and escaping her becomes like no longer a thing?

[uneven gulch]

chaos may be a being beyond comprehension but they are a very stylish being beyond comprehension

[neon isle]

i feel like poseidon is pretty decent though

[sleek oar]

Chaos hella dripped out tho i respect their game

[ashen hollow]

Yes

[neon isle]

rivals scylla has a zoom attack yeah

[orchid acorn]

chat how many encounters are on each route, on average

[limpid oar]

I don't mean the charge, just her becoming way too fast overall, I had the messenger and nitro boost and I couldnt outrun her

[orchid acorn]

encounters, not rooms. so specifically stuff that would tick down chaos etc

[neon isle]

i feel like 30-35 average

[uneven gulch]

the only good poseidon duo boons are the ones that barely even involve him (hera and aphro)

[orchid acorn]

its like 40 rooms but surely like 10 of those are gonna be like noncombat

[humble urchin]

everything but fields’ rooms are 1 encounter right?

[neon isle]

and thessaly

[limpid oar]

29

[orchid acorn]

no because shops/npc rooms/fountains etc aren't encounters

[uneven gulch]

you don't take that duo boon for double ocean swells and island getaway is more like an aphro legendary than any kind of duo boon

[humble urchin]

and thessaly yeah, tunnel visioned into UW

[sleek oar]

Poseidon and ares tho

[ashen hollow]

He's good at base but have like no scaling with his splash effect, either you get the heroic or just don't get any dmg buff

[orchid acorn]

honestly im ballparking like 30 myself

[limpid oar]

family disputes

[humble urchin]

are those considered 2 encounters?

[orchid acorn]

1

[limpid oar]

well they should be

[neon isle]

i think he's good but i understand where youre coming from bc a lot of his duos rely on froth to be decent

[orchid acorn]

why wuld they be? you enter have no combat, pick a boon, get combat, end room

[humble urchin]

but technically you aren’t fighting anything picking the first boon

[limpid oar]

it's hard enough we can count it as 2

[neon isle]

theyre 1 encounter ingame 🤷

[orchid acorn]

can't count it as 2 cause that would affect my math madge

[humble urchin]

i still call them trials ngl

[sleek oar]

Do they have a different name now? 😭

[limpid oar]

I didn't use math I used vibes

[orchid acorn]

ok follow up question

what % would messenger be broken if it gave you dodge for clearing an encounter without getting hit. I was thinking .5%(at level 3)

[neon isle]

theyre just called family dispute 😭

dont touch my boy messenger hold on

[limpid oar]

I use family disputes because someone I know only played h2 and not h1 so they call them that all the time

[humble urchin]

yeah, family disputes

[orchid acorn]

so like 30 encounters =15% dodge assuming hitless everything which you won't so maybe its too low. but its also 15 dodge potentially

[frank mulch]

that is extremely funny

[merry whale]

messenger should give u dodge chance while cast is active

[ashen hollow]

Also aterial spray is disgustingly bad, ares already have near 0 synergy with poseidon and the duo is only 25% chance

[humble urchin]

it’s just habit really, not trying to confuse anyone

[frank mulch]

also athenaaaaa athena her design is so unbelievably badass now

[uneven gulch]

I mostly take poseidon for the free stuff

[neon isle]

athena stands like a damn statue

[merry whale]

me hearing this like it's epic the musical

[neon isle]

aura farming instead of fighting reinforcements

[sleek oar]

Athena loves to show up at the very end of the encounter

[orchid acorn]

dodge while standing in cast is possible i guess, was just trying to avoid flat stat bonus cause thats what messenger used to do and it was reworked. plus you want to fight in your cast generally anyway

[frank mulch]

idk anything about epic the musical im just enthusiastic

[humble urchin]

fellas what’s more important?

fighting for your family’s home against a world ending threat?

or auramaxxing🔥🔥

[uneven gulch]

who does ares even synergise with other than demeter and apollo?

[merry whale]

fair (u can fight in ur cast and still dodge)

ig smolder ring hot pot is technically dodge chance w cast already

[orchid acorn]

theoretically posiedon if they ever ungut the icd from stuff like pan and coat ospec

[ashen hollow]

Ngl the cast power is extremely strong but I just hate that his splash stuff which is suppose to be his main stuff is so ignored

[orchid acorn]

zeus because heinous affront is disgusting

[uneven gulch]

oh, right

[merry whale]

wounds 200% instantly benefits any build

wounds w/o 200% is ass

[uneven gulch]

what's 200%?

[orchid acorn]

mortal blow or w.e

[humble urchin]

grevious blow

[orchid acorn]

chance to get minicrit

[uneven gulch]

ah, right

[merry whale]

basically it's a mini critical that only does x2 dmg

[ashen hollow]

Coffin nail is the better falling blade duo tbh, ares is good with zeus

[uneven gulch]

but isn't that taking 2 boons for a role that zeus also fulfils?

[ashen hollow]

Crit is very good

Because blitz can crit too I'm pretty sure

[uneven gulch]

oh, that sounds good

[ashen hollow]

Not that blizt needs more help

[merry whale]

it is 2 boons so more investment/risk, but when u do get it all of ur offensive power can get x2 power

[hearty fog]

@merry whale Has anyone pointed out that midshop of Thessaly is Charon's boat all nice and pristine and the endshop is it with some battle damage?

[merry whale]

if u don't get it then wounds is kinda just there

[limpid oar]

the fact that Gale exists would make that a tad too easy to stack for 1 grasp

[uneven gulch]

ares godsent should have added falling blades to the skyfall, that would go better with some of his duos I think

[ashen hollow]

It's definitely risky, that guy hates offering attack and special

[orchid acorn]

grok is this true

[merry whale]

if i didn't notice it throughout my playthrough i don't think it's apparent enough LOL

[ashen hollow]

So many times I go for grievous blow just to get no ares atk or special

[neon isle]

wait now im curious how charons warship operates

[hearty fog]

Totally fair.

[hearty fog]

Yes'm.

[merry whale]

i considered adding "apparent differences" to my feedback in case i was in fact missing smth, prob should've but oh well

[sleek oar]

If you replace every component of charon’s ship, is that still charon’s ship

[neon isle]

does it come up from the ocean or something 😭

[sleek oar]

Or is it thesus’

[neon isle]

like surely he cant just be coming up the styx bc theyd blockade it

are the shades on the ship his crew? just hanging around?

so many questions

[sleek oar]

Maybe he just anchored it somewhere out of the styx

[uneven gulch]

charon has a lot of gold, he can afford 2 ships

[merry whale]

pirate charon

[sleek oar]

SO true

[uneven gulch]

either that or he commandeered one

[merry whale]

imagine it's one of schelemeus' ships

[ashen hollow]

Yeah he just park them in the middle of the rift and at the end as basically an island

If he had only 1 ship isn't he just going in circles around the rift constantly

[marsh spear]

Maybe he just hits the gas

[hearty fog]

In the postgame we get Theseus on Charon's ship trying to make a point about how he totally recognizes it and it's his.

And then our next run downstairs he's in the Fields trying to get back into Elysium.

[sleek oar]

He’s just helping mel out yk

[neon isle]

wish thessaly felt more like being on a ship

[sleek oar]

So true thats when we get the thesus fight

[marsh spear]

It DOES have black sails

[ashen hollow]

Right like he has to steer the ship to the beginning after every time we beat eris, maybe that's why he doesn't show up on mountain top

[hearty fog]

"That blackguard boatman stole my ship! I knew he was in league with the daemo--" [Cerberus picks him up in his mouth and runs off with a new chew toy]

[neon isle]

i think he doesnt show up on the mountain bc prometheus would jump him

more scared of prommy than chronos which is fair tbh

[sleek oar]

Charon solos prometheus, his fight in h1 kicked my ass so bad

[neon isle]

prometheus is infinitely more locked in

[ashen hollow]

Sometimes prometheus kicks my ass worse than typhon tbh

[hearty fog]

Charon is on some Chaos-type "I could end this whole charade in about five minutes, but..."

[neon isle]

idk i feel like without his underworld domain expansion powers hed lose

[marsh spear]

Prom wouldn't be able to even reach Charon.
Because 🪽

[ancient shore]

Typhon is just giant damage sponge

[ashen hollow]

It's the birds fault, that thing always break at least 1 of my lovers shield

[hearty fog]

Except instead of causing all of reality to bluescreen by their very presence Charon just cannot be bothered to fight right now.

[neon isle]

just dash right 😭

[sleek oar]

Supergiant we need answers

[neon isle]

bc he has huge aoe but hes not fast

i feel like prometheus would zone him out

[ashen hollow]

Aetos would be the hardest boss if it was a boss

[neon isle]

chronos would get snapped in half

[sleek oar]

Who is aetos

[neon isle]

eagle

[hearty fog]

Prom's bird.

[sleek oar]

Oh right

[ashen hollow]

The eagle that cooks you alive everytime you see it

[sleek oar]

Evil mf

[uneven gulch]

he survived chronos taking over the underworld unlike literally everyone else except hecate, melinoë and hypnos

and I don't think he had anyone to teleport him out of there

[hearty fog]

What's Chronos's dialogue for Charon's shop right outside the House?

[ashen hollow]

If I see it I just run to the other side of the room, I am not dealing with that thing

[hearty fog]

I know he mentions it at least once.

[neon isle]

hes too lazy to deal with it himself but everyone he sends keeps running away

[hearty fog]

Perfect.

[ashen hollow]

Aetos is probably more deadly than Heracles tbh

[neon isle]

heracles just isnt locked in

why does he walk around at a strolls pace

[sleek oar]

Heracles lowkey couldve been a so much worse fight

Im so glad its NOT

[hearty fog]

If Heracles were as locked in as Asterius it would have been the real VoR4.

[ashen hollow]

So you don't hate the fight (scylla cough cough cough)

[sleek oar]

Scylla is vor5

[hearty fog]

Heracles being a pretty weak addition, all things considered, for the Vow of Rivals is probably for the best since Prometheus is still an EM-tier boss without any Fear.

[ashen hollow]

Sirens are the worst fight ever conceived in both hades game

Horrendously designed boss

[sleek oar]

Lowkey its grown on me just cause i dont die anymore and i feel proud of myself

[hearty fog]

I don't love Unrivaled Sirens but base Sirens are not bad at all.

[ashen hollow]

On higher fear it's so gross

[marsh spear]

I like the concept and suffer for it

[uneven gulch]

Harder than typhon and maybe chronos too depending on your weapon

[limpid oar]

sirens are the peak of boss design 🔥

[humble urchin]

i’d disagree, no fear prom is rather easy once you get the hang of his moves

[ashen hollow]

They have so much hp for that point in the game

[humble urchin]

unless you mean higher fear but no rivals

[neat frigate]

Going from unrivaled sirens to base sirens is like coming out of the frontlines of world war 2 into first grade math

[hearty fog]

Only three of the Rivals fights are actually decent, every UW boss and Typhon are just clusters and a half.

[neat frigate]

I think rivals chronos is good except for his phase 3 boomerang

[ancient shore]

My only problem with rivaled sirens is too much visual noise- the fight encourages you to move around constantly and pick your battles, it’s a great learning tool for phase 3 rivaled chronos

[neat frigate]

And all the teleporting and invincibility

[sleek oar]

Lowkey thats how every rivals fight feels imo 😭 like they really upped the difficulty from extreme measures, but i think its good

[hearty fog]

Poly's great, Eris is great, Prometheus gets away with being OP on his own and Heracles not trying at all.

[ashen hollow]

Typhon is honestly not as scary as spawn of typhon or the twin fight, those can kick ass

[limpid oar]

my top 3 EM/rivals bosses:

• Scylla
• Jetty
• Roxy

thoughts?

[neon isle]

roxy is the worst

[neat frigate]

The worst part of unrivaled scylla is the water spouts imo. If you could just focus Roxy down like in the normal fight and get rid of her early there would be so much less pressure

[sleek oar]

I love rivals prometheus

[neon isle]

i always go for scylla first tbh

[neat frigate]

Typhon is fun until the last phase before baby

[neon isle]

or charybdis

[limpid oar]

that would make it too easy, her part of the arena is very very very safe if not for the water spouts

[humble urchin]

no way you left out the main girl Charybdis like that

[limpid oar]

she's top4 dw

[sleek oar]

Who is #5

[limpid oar]

hecate

[sleek oar]

Omg 😭

I love playing a guessing game

[ashen hollow]

Hecate is very annoying with some spells honestly

[neat frigate]

Without the water spouts you still have a lot to worry about lol. The two tentacles up there and scylla and jetty can catch up to you there

[uneven gulch]

is hecate also number 6, 7 and 8?

[limpid oar]

the only reason she's not higher than sirens is that she's not singing

[sleek oar]

Lowkey if scylla wasnt singing id probably hate that fivht a lot more

[neat frigate]

Rivals hecate has rng in the form of the hex she uses after twilight curse can determine a lot of difficulty

[limpid oar]

Scylla singing carries all of Oceanus

[ashen hollow]

I always play frenzy 2 and on frenzy that fight is the worst

[polar abyss]

You should play that fight muted without captions

[sleek oar]

No i dont hate myself

[hearty fog]

I could also go sticking my hand in spider nests.

[neat frigate]

When she shoots the big expanding ring it’s so free to dodge but the shooting a ton of small bullets is insufferable

[ancient shore]

I think it’s apart of the design- the most success I’ve had in that fight is just taking pot shots while running around constantly. The water spouts reinforce the design choice IMHO, cause you can’t just delete her aoe that introduces and maintains tempo

The problem I have with the bullet he’ll vibe is that it locks down a lot of builds tool kit- for example, it’s really hard to pull off an omega attack in the fight without taking chip, because you gotta stop.

[limpid oar]

I die to rivals sirens very often but I love that fight and always look forward to it

[ancient shore]

Agreed. It’s diffuculty (and amazing music) makes me think about the game in new ways

[neat frigate]

Rivals sirens is my least favorite pet of the game easy

[rapid osprey]

honestly of all the rivals fights I think sirens is the most likely to get nerfed

[orchid acorn]

^^^^^^^^^^

[sleek oar]

Im fine with scylla difficulty as long as they dont touch circe staff 🙏 thats my cheat tool

[neat frigate]

That used to be rivals prommy but even he was easier to get used to

[rapid osprey]

that charyb feature is torturous

[orchid acorn]

nah rivals prom has always been a joke, hes just a wall of meat

which is problematic for timer but not exactly "Hard"

[neat frigate]

I cannot do well against him with close range builds

[rapid osprey]

rivals prom is actually so fun for me

[sleek oar]

So true

[neat frigate]

It’s a zone 3 boss so I don’t care that it’s hard I don’t think it’s unfair

Rivals chronos is a very balanced blend of hard and bs in phase 3

[rapid osprey]

Scylla nerf + bring back hecate clone difference would make all the fights perfect for me apart from Typhon p4

[neat frigate]

Unless you play without sound hecate is really easy to spot

Even without sound if you have curses in your build it’s not bad

[neon isle]

people have trouble w typhon p4?

i feel like its pretty alright

[neat frigate]

Just too much happening

[rapid osprey]

its nasty on frenzy 2

[neon isle]

oh makes sense

[neat frigate]

All the attacks individually are fine but the overlap between them is crazy sometimes

[polar abyss]

Also add in Pain 3 for extra torment

[sleek oar]

Is my lack of headphones my downfall again

[neat frigate]

Ah yeah I always have frenzy 2 on so whenever I talk about bosses that’s important to note lol

[rapid osprey]

my problem with typhon is that all the difficulty is focused on only that one phase. The rest of the fight is relatively chill. I'd like them to nerf p4 and slightly buff the other phases in a reasonable manner

[polar abyss]

Got it. Now Post-Babality phase is ridiculously difficult.

[sleek oar]

Is p4 where he turns u into a child

[rapid osprey]

no the one before that

[buoyant matrix]

babality is also hard for me because mf chronos spins his orbs exactly where I'm standing

[rapid osprey]

I think babality is fine for the most part. If phase 4 was actually more balanced you'd have more hp for babality too

[neat frigate]

My ideal rivals update:
-Make sirens not Like That
-No more chronos invincibility in his phase 3 except in between health phases
-Make triple scythe throw easier to dodge
-Eris moves around more instead of flying off and being untouchable for half the fight
-Adjust what moves are allowed to happen simultaneously in rivals typhon phase 4
-Make typhon eye blast readable

[rapid osprey]

nah triple scythe is perfectly fine. One of the more satisfying dodges in the game imo

just lock in

[neat frigate]

That one I’ll concede may be skill issue but I hate that attack so much

[neon isle]

i still dont understand how to dodge triple

like are you supposed to dash thru the middle one

[neat frigate]

You can run away from it if you’re not close to him when he starts it but if you’re close to him I have zero clue

[ancient shore]

Dash behind if too close

[neat frigate]

I’m 99% sure that doesn’t work

[rapid osprey]

dash thru middle one and stay in the middle to avoid the other 2

[neat frigate]

He turns around to face you and the tracking is very good

[rapid osprey]

just watch boated or foolish you'll get the hang of it in no time

[neat frigate]

I think everything else on my list is very reasonable

Maybe people would disagree with reducing his invincibility but imo he already teleports a lot to avoid your damage I don’t think he also needs full invulnerability on random attacks

[neon isle]

they should add a vow that makes chronos randomly show up and attack you like in the typhon fight

itd be mad funny

[neat frigate]

And it also stacks with rivals typhon

[rapid osprey]

I would personally like to see no changes made to rivals chronos. Its like the perfect level of difficulty for a final boss imo

rest are fine

[neat frigate]

Less invincibility wouldn’t make him significantly easier imo just less annoying

[uneven gulch]

chronos spawning a miniboss in the middle of the fight sounds annoying

[neat frigate]

There’s some overlap but there’s a difference

[merry whale]

if ur aiming to actually dodge triple scythe then u want to dash into the middle scythe and then run back the other way, making sure ur not gonna get scraped by the other two scythes

[neat frigate]

Rivals Eris is not difficult, but she is incredibly annoying

[merry whale]

if ur playing staff then u can use spec to position urself

[neon isle]

i think the miniboss phase is fine

tests your burst

[merry whale]

miniboss is ass if u get like goldwraith or rootstalker

[neon isle]

ok true

[rapid osprey]

its pretty easy to handle and deep dissent straight up deletes the miniboss so its fine. you can also sometimes dps chronos and ignore the miniboss entirely since it disappears in the transition

[merry whale]

cuz goldwraith has perfect tracking if ur away from it, and it only does the tracking attack if ur away from it

then rootstalker just sucks LOL

[neon isle]

goldwraith: where my hug at

[rapid osprey]

I'm so happy they reduced the miniboss to one. We would have had another EM4 situation otherwise lol

[merry whale]

like if he's gonna summon goldwraith at least summon some poles so we can hide behind them lolol

[neat frigate]

Can confirm i have accidentally killed chronos before the mini boss spawn despite not trying to

[merry whale]

wait lmao i forgot it was two minibosses on p9

[rapid osprey]

crazy thing is that was still less than the amount hades summons in h1 😭

[merry whale]

at least it's not as annoying as how the minibosses in em4 would literally disappear and come back

[rapid osprey]

if hades summoned a sneak on FO 2 it was basically ggs lol

its crazy how many straight up "run killer" moments h1 had. not getting skips in elysium, getting too many flame wheel rooms, hades miniboss phases, satyr sack, tiny vermin etc. like ppl blame AP for h1 high heat being so hard but all these factors contribute so much to the rng factor of that game

[merry whale]

in retrospect it's extremely funny how flame wheels literally had a charon well item to smite them

[orchid acorn]

i think it was good he summoned 2 minibosses

it was just the specific minibosses that could spawn that sucked

just pull a fangs and make specific combos, or blacklist speciifc ones that suck

[rapid osprey]

nah one miniboss is fine. The fight is absurdly difficult as is, we don't need another factor going against the timer

[orchid acorn]

idk i think its fine and again timer should be hard and high fear 'impossible'

its not like you time out the at intended fears even at 5min

[rapid osprey]

I think max fear should be an impossible level difficulty, but high fear not so much

[buoyant matrix]

erebus and olympus are ridiculous for timer

[orchid acorn]

which 2 minibosses wasn't

it was cancer when you got two instant firing root stalkers

[uneven gulch]

chronos should spawn 5 minibosses and all of them are the rat king

[orchid acorn]

but it wasn't wtf timeout impossibility

and SPECIFICALLY i hate that the game rounds down for deep dissent

50% of 1 is not 0 bro

[hearty fog]

"High Fear" is such a nebulous target, though.

[orchid acorn]

im half convinced its not even coded like 50% less, it just specifically takes away 1 miniboss and they forgot the fight originally had 2

and didnt change it w the balance change

[hearty fog]

I used to say 32 was the entry to "high Heat" in H1, but I also never ran Scars or Approval Process.

[rapid osprey]

yeah but it makes the fight significantly longer, at least by 20 or so seconds when playing safely. the fact that that fight already takes like 5 mins on average means there's very little room for error when it comes to timer

[orchid acorn]

not in my experience pre change

[hybrid gulch]

For what purpose? Just to say they have a game mode no one can beat?

[orchid acorn]

unless you are specifically talking the giga high fears

[hearty fog]

And I've seen at least one person who frequents high Fear/speedrunning sites say that Timer shouldn't count.

[orchid acorn]

and even then i was doing high 30s low 40s with 2 minibosses without timeout usually

or at most timing out by 30~ seconds

hell this even assumes they don't fix the stupid ass timer counting during cutscnes

that alone adds like 20 seconds back onto the clock

[rapid osprey]

did you have grit on?

[orchid acorn]

grit yeah pain no

[buoyant matrix]

anything below 62 is considered low fear 👍🔥

[orchid acorn]

real

[rapid osprey]

forfeit + hubris also make the fight longer bc of build constraints

[orchid acorn]

infact if you aren't trying to break foolishes 67 fear record just uninstall

[rapid osprey]

I do agree with this one

[orchid acorn]

also fraud can i dm you

[rapid osprey]

sure

[uneven gulch]

high fear does not exist yet, it will only exist if a no keepsakes vow is added

[orchid acorn]

keepsakes are broken would be so funny

rip antler

[buoyant matrix]

I really hope surface gets some adjustments regarding timer

[upbeat eagle]

world's first no keepsakes run to leave erebus with desired gods in less than 100 resets

[buoyant matrix]

i wanna run hordes3 grit3 wards2 return2 without the crippling fear of timing out

[fading knoll]

I swear surface timer isn't that bad Pizza

[ancient shore]

Surface is way faster

[fading knoll]

I entered summit at 8 minutes yesterday and I wasnt even trying to go fast and then I died cuz I'm ass

Thessaly is so consistently not awful timer wise these days

And Ephyra is insanely quick

[devout abyss]

i thought english left?

[buoyant matrix]

this post has been fact checked by the crossroads gang

FALSE 🥀 💔

[arctic fog]

Curious abt peoples opinions on this

[uneven gulch]

I just wish it worked on demeter godsent

[orchid acorn]

not good enough to make me want to use it, but i never really thought "yo this is ass"

[ancient shore]

I actually think it’s really fun, and both of those problems are solved with each of the gods other boons- air quality just has general synergy with Demeter and cold storage is amazing with the duo. I wouldn’t complain if it had faster tick but that’s only cause I’m an air quality apologist

[devout abyss]

i think the idea of the duo is good, i think it needs a buff in the damage department

but also AQ and cold storage both boost the damage

the duo is an afk free damage boon, and demter usually isn't offering anything with insane extra damage potential

some duos are gonna be mid when there are like 2 dozen of them

[orchid acorn]

its like taking freezer burn without all of hestias t2s, not exactly incredible

[uneven gulch]

yes, like the new natural selection

[orchid acorn]

certainly not a build-around tho

natural selection is mid only cause they undershot the numbers

[devout abyss]

i wish zeus had a secondary curse

[orchid acorn]

if that mf said +20 poms you'd be looking like a cartoon character

[uneven gulch]

natural selection is just perspehone at home

[orchid acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/eyes-popping-surprised-wow-popping-eyes-crush-gif-18120881

[arctic fog]

Zeus is already broken

[devout abyss]

natural selection should be minimum 15 poms

[arctic fog]

Bad pom scaling + only 8 Poms is definitely something

[upbeat eagle]

if not for killer current existing hail storm would probably be the most factory standard duo boon in the game

[orchid acorn]

Alternatively if they didn't want to risk giga pomming a +8 posiedon special literally just +3 to all core boons

[uneven gulch]

Do you think hades keepsake will be a thing in 1.0? I think there are a few extra spots in the keepsake cabinet.

[devout abyss]

100000%

[orchid acorn]

We're virtually guaranteed hades + hypnos at 1.0

[arctic fog]

Echo can already do that for me 😤

[upbeat eagle]

Hades definitely, probably Hypnos too

[orchid acorn]

she can't tho

[ancient shore]

I mean, I think it’s still really good. If you have air quality, the duo is about as good as a Zeus cast on anything you freeze.

[hearty fog]

Oh, they took care of the danger of gigapomming pretty much any Poseidon boon at this point.

[uneven gulch]

I think hades keepsake would be cool if it gave you every hades boon but also converted all rewards for that region into onions or something

[devout abyss]

it isn't a terrible duo by any means

it's, as stated in the feedback, mid

which is okay

[ancient shore]

Yeah huge nerf to flat damage scaling across the board

[arctic fog]

Doubling the level of your highest Pom can get you a pretty cracked special but I’m also joking

[orchid acorn]

frankly what freeze needs is a lower lockout

[upbeat eagle]

the third spot is, obviously, for chronos

[devout abyss]

10 -> 8 seconds imo

[uneven gulch]

actually no, that would be op because you could just save it for tartarus

[orchid acorn]

if you could apply freeze basically every 2 seconds or something(After it expires, so 2-7 seconds including cold storage) it'd be pretty good

8 seconds is still p. long

or does it count down while a target is frozen

im assuming it works like flood gain where its frozen > cd

not frozen and cd is ticking

[devout abyss]

you shouldnt be able to permafreeze an enemy without investment

[orchid acorn]

there's still downtime between freezes though

[ancient shore]

Well, old heph x dem did restart the counter, and I thought it was pretty fun save for heph sucking in that update offensively

[orchid acorn]

idk 2s probably too low but at least 5

[devout abyss]

i'm fairly certain that's how it works, otherwise cold storage would be a worse boon

[uneven gulch]

I find that freezing enemies gets me hit more often that it prevents getting hit

[devout abyss]

freeze has so much inconsistency

[uneven gulch]

because it obliterates my muscle memory for dodging attacks

[orchid acorn]

i thought it griefed freezer burn for that reason LMAO

[devout abyss]

i am not an expert ont he inner workings of freeze

[uneven gulch]

I think it would actually be a buff to freezing if it didn't slow down bosses at all

[devout abyss]

literally like 2 days ago i found out scorch does actual damage to the target

[ancient shore]

How does it work with mulitpliers?

[devout abyss]

regularly, apparently

[ancient shore]

WHAT

[devout abyss]

it's not olympian damage for whatever reason

[upbeat eagle]

okay. elaborate on this one

[orchid acorn]

they made scorch deal damage so it would get global modifiers

[devout abyss]

@polar abyss

[orchid acorn]

instead of not benefitting from it

or olympian

[devout abyss]

wait thats the wr4on person

[devout abyss]

@deft igloo

can u explain how scorch works

[ancient shore]

Weird that it doesn’t count as Olympian damage tho, gets rid of a lot of interesting synergy with ares and hera

[orchid acorn]

it is.

idk what ry is talking about

unless something broke recently they specifically made it work with that

[devout abyss]

🤨

[orchid acorn]

in unseen

Step 4: this damage is now affected by any relevant %damage modifiers. This includes Olympian Damage from hera or ares, and any %damage that doesn't specify a specific damage type (such as Origination, The Furies, Shameless Attitude, or Tall Order). Lets say you have origination and ares' rallying cry, your damage dealt is now 33.32 X (1 + 50% + 50%) = 66.64 damage. This is the end of damage calculations

full for reference

[polar abyss]

Are you talking about the Scorch Cast bug? Or Scorch itself?

[ancient shore]

Just scorch

[polar abyss]

Oh.

[orchid acorn]

cause there IS a smolder ring bug where its double dipping

cause some dev put code in specifically smolder ring to calc it on application forgetting scorch consumes said scorch and benefits from % damage there too

[upbeat eagle]

i guess it's possible they were experimenting with making it so % boosts increased the amount of scorch applied instead of the damage itself for some reason

[ancient shore]

I think they made the right choice with damage application over scorch application, given the cap

Do we have any thoughts on arterial spray?

[orchid acorn]

good pre unseen

bad post unseen cause they gutted posiedons biggest customers

and the ones that got compensated to work again weren't exactly the highest performers that wanted ares

im biased though cause i loved arterial spray, its probably more on the mid side from what i've read from community and streamer reactions like the recent duo boon tier list

[ancient shore]

Yeah, I think I agree with that assessment. I think it should always double as long as the target has wounds

[upbeat eagle]

i think if arterial spray didn't make the extra waves red it would actually be rated much more highly

because you'd assume it's doing a lot more work than it actually does

[ancient shore]

That’s probably true, honestly. But the red waves are so much fun- maybe if the red waves always crit it would also be more interesting? Idk. 25% more procs of a wave is usually like, half as good as froth, which feels really underwhelming

[orchid acorn]

it could probably stand to to be 50%, then success rate could make it 75% basically

[devout abyss]

if i got married would yall wanna come

[orchid acorn]

maybe

[devout abyss]

im never getting married

[rapid osprey]

is there free food?

[devout abyss]

for you maybe

[rapid osprey]

then I'm 100% coming. Hell i'll be your best man in that case

[sleek quarry]

I was gonna say that 50% spray is too much especially with success rate but hey as long as pyro technique exist and both being multiplicative bonuses, they might as well go all out.

[polar abyss]

I am so done. Athena didn’t give me Renewed Faith again

This time I made it to P3 Chronos

12 boon selections (reroll 3 times) twice. None of them Renewed Faith

I’m gonna do a Circe speedrun first to see if that helps my RNG for my next 51 Mel Blades attempt.

[rapid osprey]

why do you even need renewed faith? just lock in and dont get hit lmfao

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-anime-lock-in-looks-maxxing-locked-in-aang-gif-597137608735802301

[polar abyss]

I need Renewed Faith as insurance. I was able to lock in mostly for Rival Chronos in that attempt, but got messed up by P3

And also that is a dominant / common strategy for 62 Fear

[rapid osprey]

well as someone who has beaten 69 fear I can tell you this much: skill issue haha get gud noob

I'm sorry I'm being annoying 😭

[polar abyss]

Uh huh. Sure

It’s fine

I’ve seen and probably done worse myself in this chat

[rapid osprey]

dw you'll get it next run FOR SURE. I'm manifesting renewed faith for you right now 🙏

[polar abyss]

No, next run is Circe speedrun, because I need to change the run’s RNG apparently

And that and the 51 run are being saved for another time

Taking a break for now

[rapid osprey]

what aspect are you using btw?

[polar abyss]

Mel Blades

[rapid osprey]

ew

[polar abyss]

Hephaestus blasts are actually working with it.

It’s a way to burst down certain targets

[rapid osprey]

do they get the backstab bonus?

[polar abyss]

Seemingly No.

[rapid osprey]

still, blasts are pretty good

on anything

[polar abyss]

If they don’t work higher up, I’ll switch. But my 51 run will be done hopefully soon with Blasts

Not anything… Hell / Heaven Splitter Axe I’d rather not have Volcanic Strike

[rapid osprey]

are you not allowing TK or something?

[polar abyss]

No, I’ll take TK if I can get it. I’m just not aiming for it rn.

[toxic beacon]

quick question but doesnt h2crossroads require video clips for all its ladder placements? or is that for different categories?

[polar abyss]

I believe videos are required, but I haven’t yet submitted any runs personally

Eventually I’ll do a whole clip dump onto the site, if I choose to

A little 50 fear surprise in the web-mail box

[merry whale]

strength meta (don't need to think about renewed faith)

[merry whale]

i've been able to upload some runs w/o vid (my first 62f clear doesn't have a vod), i think it's just as long as ur trusted it's chill

[polar abyss]

Strength demands you take the whole left column though

[toxic beacon]

huh, i must be missing something

[polar abyss]

I mean idk. I thought they might be, but again. Never been there yet

Also Strength means you can’t take Kitty…. And I want Kitty…

[toxic beacon]

found my name on the surface ladder and at first i thought ' whos this gio guy '
so i was under the impression that it feeds off of #h2-victory-boasting but if it requires clips then thats odd

[polar abyss]

No seriously, I’ve done every single 50+ run so far with Toula

[merry whale]

in the case of some1 recently who got an interesting artemis 57f clear, it was requested of them to record a vod at same or lower fear to show how they play the aspect

[toxic beacon]

toula meta at long last

[polar abyss]

Autumn will add weapons and runs to the crossroads if there’s a ‘run drought’ for a weapon so to speak

[polar abyss]

In theory, Toula is definitively better than most other familiars on Surface (which I’m not doing), and for Circe. Most other weapons, it’s just a choice that could be better or worse than the others.

[toxic beacon]

toula surface for circe aspect and circe boon, real

[polar abyss]

I just stuck with cat for the moment because if I do get Renewed Faith, it’s 33% better

And also Last Gasp is better

[merry whale]

i willingly take lucky tooth in my strength runs it's fine

[toxic beacon]

been doing toula for soup builds to get early damage but apart from that idk, im also trying more anubis and there i just pick whatever, i guess gale is the most value?

[polar abyss]

You’re asking what familiar is best on Anubis? Or just in general?

[toxic beacon]

anubis

attack focused also
for omega special theres hecuba

[polar abyss]

Hmmmm…. Raki isn’t as good on Anubis compared to some other weapons because the main strat I see is Scorch stacking (though Waves, and Static Shock can do a whole bunch of nice crits).
Hecuba isn’t needed if you are using Cardio Gain
Toula in all honesty can waste time, and could mess up Strength if you take it.
Frinos’s defense is… fine, but also not outstanding.
But then also Gale could have the blocks trigger during attacks instead

There’s complaints about every familiar. But also some positives to each now

If I had to choose a familiar for Anubis… I feel like Raki or Gale would probably be best

[toxic beacon]

frinos doesnt feel great on surface because if you want health then just get the x2 centaur heart in ephyra and ure goated
also never really had him block anything noticeable, maybe the autowatchers if you react fast enough?

[polar abyss]

Raki because you can build for AQ and those crits matter. And Gale could actually be saved for important bosses if you are good enough in encounters.

[merry whale]

i find frinos helps cuz u don't have to get the x2 centaur heart and can use the extra room for an actual boon or smth

[polar abyss]

And by those crits, I mean the crits from your Attack, Omega Attack, and stuff like Arctic Gale

[toxic beacon]

also gale is great for letting you refocus on the game
when i take damage its usually because i zoned out and couldnt follow what was happening ( i might have been dropped at birth /j) so getting to see where enemies are, which one fired, where u should go next is really nice

[merry whale]

damn i have the complete opposite it brings me out of focus lmao

[toxic beacon]

raki theres also a world in which u go for blitz attack and big crits , maybe

[toxic beacon]

really?
i find it hard to take damage if im following the action, so gale cant really screw that up
its when ure not paying attention that u need that help

[merry whale]

it's like, i'm focused in the fight and doing the dodge stuffs, but then i get hit and suddenly i have like 3 seconds of complete slowdown

[toxic beacon]

i guess for bosses it would be annoying

[merry whale]

it also sucks when it's me walking into like, those summit eye things, i'd rather take the damage than consume a gale hit

[polar abyss]

Side note, but I am actually thinking that Mel Blades Hephaestus might be the play.

[merry whale]

which is why i prefer frinos rn cuz +40hp feels like it gives more value than 3 gale blocks per region that don't always block what u need

[polar abyss]

Just found a 55 Pre-Unseen Mel Blades clear on Surface that used Trick Knives and Heph Blasts pre-buff

Unfortunately I can’t forward it to here… so you’ll have to find it in #h2-victory-boasting

[merry whale]

east just did a 40f mel blades blast yesterday, could be worth doing

[toxic beacon]

worth trying out both then

[merry whale]

it incinerated tail of typhon in like 30s

[polar abyss]

In theory, Mel Blades 62 Surface is probably possible because of that 55 run. Just need to see if I could do it in UW

[finite chasm]

I added a bunch of victories from speedcore and here.

As long as there's fear, I added. No problem unless the run landed as the top of a category.

[toxic beacon]

makes sense makes sense

[tender river]

i feel like 1.0 is dropping very soon.

[toxic beacon]

give me a sec

[lost wing]

Hopefully not too soon. Silksong is about to steal a lot of people's gaming time 😅

(Or it would if it was real. -| )

[rapid osprey]

being a skong doubter in the big 2025 is crazy🥀

[toxic beacon]

sure hope my dogwater laptop will be able to run silksong cuz otherwise i dont get to play it on campus

[lost wing]

I'll be a Skong doubter till the day I die (in Silksong Silk Soul mode). And even then!

[toxic beacon]

dont die on me yet huawei laptop 🙏

[toxic beacon]

so this is what encountering a flat earther must be like

[rapid osprey]

the requirements on steam look pretty good for low end systems so youre probably good

[toxic beacon]

holy according to 'can you run it' it can

[polar abyss]

I know it’s not the best time ever, but I did do my next Circe speedrun. 7:14 on the timer (probably could have gone lower had I 1. Had White Antler at Tier 3 naturally, and 2. didn’t get hit by Hecate’s curse)

[lost wing]

I just think what Team Cherry are doing is cruel, releasing "Silksong," a completely fake game, just because they can't bring themselves to admit that Silksong isn't real.

[polar abyss]

Regardless, it’s my best time yet.

[toxic beacon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1404551136425414878/1410779047629160468/image.png?ex=68b241df&is=68b0f05f&hm=f081b87e32ca1f963cbe154d92b3e1c00befb1c093871779ece0f5e594a5c433&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=968&height=544

if 'recommended' means i can see at least 10 pixels on the screen then im gucci

[rapid osprey]

I'm sorry but what are those tabs 😭

[lost wing]

Youtube, Hades wiki, and something purple

[polar abyss]

Don’t have enough time atm to do Mel 51 right now, but very soon I shall.

[toxic beacon]

hecate curse is pain yea

[toxic beacon]

read the xinth guide from mynt and foolish and opened all the videos referenced

[polar abyss]

The actual problem is I thought Demeter’s Sprint would properly counter it. Then I got fooled

I could have dodged it otherwise

[toxic beacon]

i typically have maybe 5 tabs open max , i prefer bookmarks

[toxic beacon]

fire force on free anime website (the purple)

[toxic beacon]

arctic gale counters it tho no?

[polar abyss]

Thats the cast gale. Not Dem’s sprint

The gale stopped when I stopped sprinting, didn’t get reset in time, and got cursed

[toxic beacon]

oh i thought the rush would leave the gale be for a while after stopping

so ud have had to just hold sprint ig

yea that sucks

[polar abyss]

I have dodged Hecate’s curse before (Rivals and nonrivals), so I blame this, not my own skill

[toxic beacon]

which skips did u get thp

[polar abyss]

All 3 Fig Leafs, and and 2 Chaos Gates (one natural, one by the Charon item in Fields)

[toxic beacon]

pretty good

[polar abyss]

I also got some NPCs. I had Nemesis and Artemis show up, but I don’t remember if I took Arachne and Narcissus

[toxic beacon]

if hades appears do u take him or just skip to not get the tougher rooms

[polar abyss]

I just took Hades for the added damage

I was trying to look for Unseen Ire for the “free” 100% damage boost at points, but instead I got Gigaros Dash

The run itself did feel nice.

• Heroic Smolder Ring to start
• Cherished Heirloom Region 3
• Also the Arachne Keepsake got duped by Echo for more safety

Just made a few minor mistakes and probably didn’t get perfect RNG

Even with all these positives, it would still be last on the speedrun list of Any% UW had I recorded it

[toxic beacon]

did u phase chronos before instakill

[polar abyss]

No, but he transitioned immediately after.

The difference I believe is the White Antler 3 vs 4

[toxic beacon]

yea overall sounds great prob room patterns and def the hecate curse that dragged it down

[polar abyss]

Also, now I’m thinking about it… is it better to go for Storm Ring for speedrunning?

Because even with the Smolder Ring bug, I don’t think crits do much on Smolder Ring, if anything

[toxic beacon]

could be

also depends on if you get some duos

id reckon freezer burn smolder helps a lot for breaking boss phases

[polar abyss]

I did see Freezer Burn, but wasn’t certain if I was supposed to take it, so I didn’t

If I ever get bad rng again constantly when doing my high fears, I’ll try the speedrun with Circe again

[toxic beacon]

surprised to see so much apollo cast on h2crossroads, for circe

[polar abyss]

Huh… so is it the most popular?

[toxic beacon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1404551136425414878/1410783853097910462/image.png?ex=68b24659&is=68b0f4d9&hm=42caa1729efed394116e2be45625528e0d5b55daad8d3c4f44c51f43f7af4b00&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

2 for speedruns

maybe for prom flare?

[polar abyss]

Maybe

The other think I’m noticing is that Apollo Attack was also taken quite a bit

(For 8, 14, and 40 fear)

[toxic beacon]

i dont think i even know how the apollo circe attack looks

maybe you get the larger area for attacks to get the early rooms done quickly without having to move around with the leash, and then for bosses you can get the casts to overlap + leash + spam attacks and so its not a big problem

[polar abyss]

Maybe.

Im just surprised to not see Hitch attack / special, anywhere

Or Freeze attack / special

[urban topaz]

EA friends, there's a weapon that didn't had a rework since the beginning of the Early Access?

[cobalt flint]

Uh depends on your definition of a rework

[polar abyss]

I can’t think of any weapon that has not been adjusted since its release. So if you mean “This weapon remains unchanged”, the answer is No.

But if you mean the concept…. There are some concepts that have stayed the same outside of number changes (such as Moros I think)

[ebon oak]

I found out that Heph Flourish can go down to 1 second on Coat. Some how, it isn't nearly as good as the Strike, which only goes down to 2 seconds.

[polar abyss]

The 1 second thing isn’t 1 second

I presume you are using the duo that reduces its cooldown?

[ebon oak]

No?

[polar abyss]

Oh? That is interesting.

[ebon oak]

The Heph Flourish at Heroic +5 on Coat goes all the way down to 1 second.

Or was it +6?

[polar abyss]

can you show a screenshot of your boons?

[nimble inlet]

Time is UP

-# kills you

[ebon oak]

Heph Strike on Coat caps at Heroic +4, giving you 2 second cooldowns.

[polar abyss]

From what I have heard, the cap for Blasts should be 2 seconds without duo boons, and 1.4 seconds with that one duo boon.

[ebon oak]

Like, eventually Heph's Blast Boons prevent you from Pomming them further. They just stop appearing as options. You can get higher levels from things like Bridal Glow or the Sacrifice Boon Item from the Well, but it isn't actually any better than the cap.

[polar abyss]

So if you Pom it beyond the natural limit, then get the rarity up, it would break the cap system?

[hasty ocean]

no, extra poms do nothing

[ebon oak]

You can over level a Heph boon past the cap through things like Bridal Glow, but it won't actually be any better than the cap.

Heph Strik on Coat caps at Heroic +4 being 2 seconds (It literally won't appear as an option to Pom it further)
Using Heroic Bridal Glow can make it Heroic +5 or higher, but it will still be 2 seconds.

[polar abyss]

And specifically Heroic Volcanic Flourish on Coat with poms goes to below 2 seconds without the duo?

If this is the case, can a screenshot be posted?

[neat frigate]

was about to kill chronos and then he popped invincibility when he was one hit from death you will never convince me this isnt stupid

[polar abyss]

Trying to figure out the cause of what Mira is describing, so I threw out that idea

[ebon oak]

Sure, let me do a run real quick. Rerolling Erebus is easy Nector for po.s.

[orchid acorn]

artemis is probably the closest to not being touched, its only gotten QOL and -3 seconds cd

but the blades basekit got like 3 hammers basekit so i guess artemis technically got rewokred

[nimble inlet]

Funny because she is also the goddess closest to not being touched

[orchid acorn]

yeah i guess every weapon since EA launch has been reworked actually

staff special reworked
blades got multiple hammers basekit to a functional special rework
torch was entirely reworked
axe got its special reworked
skull got mechanically reworked on both attack and special
coat wasn't in the game

thats crazy

even coat got some mechanical rework level changes into it like 1 week post coat launch with the specials being sped up and tracking kinda

[hasty ocean]

Shiva coat was heavily reworked but I'm convinced it was straight up unfinished when it was initially added

I don't remember if skull or torches got the most reworks, but torches definitely got the most dramatic reworks. Took a while for them to figure out what they wanted Torches to be

[lost ravine]

How much scorch is thermal right now?

[sleek quarry]

160

[lost ravine]

I thought so

Someone tell haelian not to reference the Hades 2 wiki lol

I wish the Hades wiki was good

[rapid osprey]

this game doesn't even need a wiki tbh

[lost ravine]

Yeah you can just check things in game for the most part

[sleek quarry]

Wiki is only volunteers and they do it for free. Kinda hard to blame em ngl

This information is easily accessible with in game codex

[nimble inlet]

The codex in hades games is such a brilliant thing

[polar abyss]

At 1.0 I’d say so, but there’s a lot of minor details that aren’t necessarily shown well

And also bugs

Example would be Mel Skull not working with Wide Grin, and Possessed Array now being different from just consuming magic to not work with hexes.

Regardless, I do agree that a world with the Codex is far better than without, and I am thankful for it

[sleek quarry]

Like you mean on the wiki or in game codex?

[rapid osprey]

nah codex is too hand-holdy. They should remove it and let players figure it out themselves

[lost ravine]

Yeah the game would still benefit from having a good wiki

[polar abyss]

Oh. Replied to the wrong message

I meant the Codex

[sleek quarry]

Yeah game has a lot of hidden mechanic and information not clearly conveyed

[lost ravine]

It's less necessary here but there's still some unintuitive things that aren't explained in game

[rapid osprey]

the hidden mechanics are what this discord is for lol

[lost ravine]

I still learn things lol, I didn't know wide grin Mel was bugged until like 2 days ago

[rapid osprey]

I've learned every niche mechanic from here

[polar abyss]

I’ve seen how difficult and thankless the job of Fan-Wikis are, and feel bad at how at times, it is not up to date, whilst people (including myself) complain and say ‘Don’t take the wiki at face value. it’s not good’

The hope I have atm is that overtime, the wiki will get better when the game is Finished.

[lost ravine]

I mean

It's understandable that it's a bunch of volunteers

[polar abyss]

Yes, and I’m saying I feel bad about the complaints I have seen and said.

[lost ravine]

But objectively it's not good, it's fine to say that when it spreads misinfo

It's not like a slight on the editors

[polar abyss]

Yeah. I think that what was worse is that there were 3 ‘major’ patches within just a few months.

[lost ravine]

A good friend of mine almost single-handedly manages a different game's wiki so I'm well aware it's a lot of work

[polar abyss]

And I say major because there were a lot of meaningful changes in between 9, 10, and 11

[lost ravine]

The only reason I brought it up is cuz I watched Haelian's duo tier list and it was a little frustrating that he didn't just open the game and use the codex lol

[polar abyss]

To be fair, the codex for regular boons isn’t as great as it could be.

It would be nice if at-least rarities were added.

I don’t expect all the Pom rates though.

[lost ravine]

That's pretty true

[polar abyss]

Speaking of, I’ll go add that in feedback

[rapid osprey]

casual players have trouble reading the codex as is and you wanna add more stuff to it? 😭

[lost ravine]

Do they? /gen

[nimble inlet]

There should be an option on each boon to check it in rare epic and heroic too

[rapid osprey]

that's prolly less of a codex fault and more bc of the casual player having room temperature IQ

[nimble inlet]

But in default it’ll all be common if you don’t change it to check

[nimble inlet]

Wild statement

[rapid osprey]

its true just check reddit

[polar abyss]

Yes! If need be, make it a singular button and have it rotate boon rarities across the whole codex

E.g. Common -> Rare -> Epic -> Heroic -> Common

Ok, feedback done

[nimble inlet]

At the top of each boon list

[fierce jasper]

finally beat chronos 🗣️

[toxic beacon]

Goated

[fathom lake]

CAN TIME NOT BE STOPPED?

[nimble inlet]

-# hehehe

[fierce jasper]

allat fighting and i still haven’t found a single adamant

[rapid osprey]

uhh adamant is the other way

[fierce jasper]

o

[rapid osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/hades-hercules-olympus-would-be-that-way-olympus-point-gif-24314484

[fierce jasper]

lmao

[ebon oak]

#h2-victory-boasting message
Hm, I got it down to 2 seconds, but I couldn't confirm if it would let me Pom it again. If I had to imagine, the run I saw it at 1 Second was a run with Pose/Heph Duo, and the Duo actually shows in the stats menu. i.e. It's rounding down 1.4 to 1 visually.

Also, I just casually got a 40 Fear clear trying to test it.

[fathom lake]

1.4 secs its pretty decent not gonna lie

[raw kraken]

It feels so weird that you can’t like press a button to scroll through different rarities, levels I can underhand not showing

[ebon oak]

Oh, yeah.

[fathom lake]

(and it solves scaling at lower rarities with poms)

[west fossil]

Once I got it going, this was a super fun run. Only wish I could have gotten another 2 earth to activate Rallying Cry. #h2-victory-boasting message

[ebon oak]

Foolish himself actually just confirmed this a few minutes ago in Victory Boasting, lol.

[minor dew]

1887 damage suffered in a run i might be kinda ass

(only rivals 4)

[ebon oak]

@polar abyss It's just rounding 1.4 down in the menu when you have Pose/Heph Duo. Since Foolish says it, I believe him.

[orchid acorn]

1.48 to be exact

cause it lies to you its not actually 35% or whatever the boon says

its 26% due to math

[ebon oak]

Oh yeah, apparently in 300 hours, I had never seen or killed a Wringer until now, so now I ha 100%ed the current patch.

[fading knoll]

wringers are only in rivals chronos right?

[ebon oak]

Would explain it.

I suppose I needed to fight Rivals Chronos multiple times before I got a run where they appeared. That, or I somehow avoid killing them until around the 4th time.

[orchid acorn]

well wringers were quite literally just added this patch so not a shock

satyr supplicants were functionally gutted verminmancers before this patch too

[ebon oak]

Well, at least I'm glad I didn't miss that codex entry.

[orchid acorn]

dunno if they reset the kill count on them

[ebon oak]

I have, like, 9 kills on them.

[orchid acorn]

then sounds like the kills got reset when they changed the modles

or they weren't called supplicants before and its a new enemy entirely

google tells me satyr supplicant was in the game so im guessing they reset it

[ebon oak]

NVM, was looking at the wrong one. I got 838 kills on Supplicant.

[orchid acorn]

and that explains it

[ebon oak]

I only have 3 kills on the pig.

Granted, it's the easiest to avoid.

Like, it is one of 2 Ephyra mini bosses, I think, and both only appear in one room.

[toxic beacon]

They can be spawned by typhon too if you take too long for the eggs

[orchid acorn]

two rooms if you count them separately

but its not like they can spawn at the same time

[devout abyss]

did someone say 100% 😏

[orchid acorn]

run its the 100% police

hes gonna check your savefile to see what dialogue lines you've gotten

[devout abyss]

if u dont have 67f on every aspect its not 100%

[ebon oak]

Pack your bags, guys. Foolish is a fraud. It's Melinover.

Oh, hello Fraud.

[rapid osprey]

"Melinover" 🔥

[ebon oak]

Ironic.

I'm really starting to like the coat. Mel coat kinda has comfy Zag Fist vibes, just with a ranged option instead of dodge.

[rapid osprey]

I actually love the coat aspects so much now

[arctic fog]

I wish I liked the coat more tbh

It looks so cool and I know it hits harder now but it kind of has the hex effect where it’s set in my mind as a mid weapon

[rapid osprey]

hexes are peak now

[arctic fog]

I love hexes

I’m just referring to the lingering doubt over them even though they’ve been fixed

I’m like that for the coat

[rapid osprey]

yeah you'll try it eventually and click with it. I did 40 fear with all coat aspects and fell in love

Nyx coat might unironically be a top 5 aspect in the game

[arctic fog]

I think I just don’t rock with its playstyle aside from Selene and that’s ok I hope I fall in love with it soon

[orchid acorn]

its actually crazy they completely flipped pre unseen "only mel coat is good" to post unseen "only mel coat is bad"

and even that is somewhat fixed by reverting ICD for the dash attack

[rapid osprey]

exactly

[ebon oak]

Heph has also really grown on me.

Hestia is still a little hit and miss for me, but Scorch Ring is my favorite Ring in the game, and the "Inflicts damage the first time they are inflicted with Scortch" one is just a really solid concept for a boon. I dig it. The one that launches your cast is also fun.

[rapid osprey]

bring back exhaust riser poseidon stuff and all coat aspects are good now

[arctic fog]

I loove heph builds with Persephone skull

[rapid osprey]

yeah heph got some pretty juicy buffs last patch. Interesting that hestia isn't working for you though, she's arguably the best god in the game damage wise

[arctic fog]

Hestia is probably my favorite god, save for the fact that I usually take slower weapons

[rapid osprey]

all her duos are amazing too

[ebon oak]

Persephone with Heph Boons was my first Rivals Typhon clear, if I recall.

[orchid acorn]

it has been back

for like over a month

[rapid osprey]

damn I've been behind on it then

[orchid acorn]

the only thing coat cucked right now is the omega special

[boreal spoke]

If I have Heinous Affront and Divine Vengeance, does the rarity of Divine Vengeance matter when being activated through Heinous Affront?

[rapid osprey]

it could benefit from a wider cone imo

[arctic fog]

Yes bc it affects max lightning strikes

[orchid acorn]

no its just the fact that the specials can explode at the same time

leading to the ICD proccing

[boreal spoke]

Alright good to know ty !

[orchid acorn]

theoretically yes, in reality not really past like 4

your just constantly flipping a coin to hit more and more

[rapid osprey]

istg one day I'll understand all these ICD shenanigans and it will be glorious

[orchid acorn]

and at a certain point do you really think your gonna land on heads 9 times in a row

[arctic fog]

Though that’s true whether or not its through HA

Shoutout to success rate btw

[rapid osprey]

succ rate my beloved

[orchid acorn]

i hope my eventual gf has succ rate

[ebon oak]

Plentiful Forage buff when?

(It no joke has been a difference maker to me, before, and saved the run.)

[rapid osprey]

screenshotting this for when someone calls me out for being weird

[orchid acorn]

remember what i have on you

[boreal spoke]

Ah ok, I wanted to know bc I'm using Hel tbh lol, if I find sucess rate it might make it a lot better but I could just take a common for now ig

[orchid acorn]

cause im ok with people knowing im weird do you want them knowing your dakr past

[rapid osprey]

uhhh sorry my lord, it wont happen again

[oak ivy]

I'm making a point to stalk pronto now so I can notify any girl he talks to about this 🫡

[orchid acorn]

yandere

[arctic fog]

Pronto isn’t talking to any women

[orchid acorn]

lilac im sorry to inform you

you're not a woman. someone go inform meow

[oak ivy]

Whaaat 😭

Why meow??

[orchid acorn]

aren't they woman

[rapid osprey]

lilac isn't a woman she's an eldritch being who's sometimes excellent at rage baiting

[orchid acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-true-kramer-seinfeld-gif-6564373007119861775

[oak ivy]

Omg you're so right!!

[rapid osprey]

btw @orchid acorn how's the arcana rework coming along?

[oak ivy]

I'm a terminally online femcel 😔

[oak ivy]

It's so bad

[arctic fog]

Please love urself a little lilac

[neat frigate]

It’s always the same three people in here talking about some bullshit

[orchid acorn]

[orchid acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/always-alwaysyouthree-harrypotter-rascals-hooligans-gif-21933813

[oak ivy]

I do my best...

[rapid osprey]

wow...

[oak ivy]

Lmaooo hahahahahha

[neat frigate]

It’s okay I’m entertained

[oak ivy]

I guess you're not wrong.....

[arctic fog]

Maybe if pronto had some actual girls to chat up instead of chronically online femcels… ☝️

[orchid acorn]

honestly coming to the conclusion that its just not really possible to brick reroll corner, if people want to double reroll they will unless i start making it mutually exclusive like h1

changes since i last sent it to you are

Judgement 5 grasp, Upon defeating a guardian 3/4/5 random boons gain Rarity.

Boatman - 4 grasp, Start with 150 gold, 10/15/20% discount on shops

Messenger - After completing an encounter without taking damage, gain 0.3/0.4/0.5% dodge chance(Expected gameplay is about 30~ encounters with random variance of npcs/fountains and intentionally taking shops when offered, so ~15% dodge chance assuming you can play hitless until chronos)

Huntress - Reverted to current live version

Queen, buffed to 12%

Divinity - 6/8/10% heroic chance

[neat frigate]

I talk to women and I’m still in here daily. There’s no known cure I’m afraid

[oak ivy]

I don't think meow ever disclosed their gender.. I just think of them as meow...

[rapid osprey]

yeah that's what I was thinking. I did have an idea for fates that basically guarantees you the lego as long as you have the reqs for it. I would probably take that over rolls for like 50% of my runs

[neat frigate]

Does Queen really need a buff? I don’t ever have trouble getting duos

[rapid osprey]

meow is a cat, plain and simple

[arctic fog]

I’m sure you do buddy

[orchid acorn]

missing broader context, it now has excellences legendary chance

[arctic fog]

Ok sorry I’ll stop rage baiting

[broken glen]

I’m new here, talk to people of all demographics, and yet I can already feel myself being infected

[oak ivy]

No no keep doing it!!

[orchid acorn]

and i personally consider it needing a small buff yeah, if i activate queen it activate it but its not something i went out ofmy way to get

[neat frigate]

Oh I see

I feel like that bricks excellence lol

[orchid acorn]

excellence is reworked too

[oak ivy]

That's what I've been thinking this whole time!!

[orchid acorn]

tldr https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1409178607196311672/1410743296862716126/image.png?ex=68b22094&is=68b0cf14&hm=57eff671cf5c10f58111566637881ddbe828f7899f6e8805777b61de753d653c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=612&height=839

[rapid osprey]

reroll corner is impossible and you should just direct your talents elsewhere pronto

[orchid acorn]

i did

i just left it alone from the version i gave you

[neat frigate]

Judgement rework i dont vibe with judgement as it is is a fun gimmick

[orchid acorn]

pick one get 10 rerolls, pick both 6 but its split

[rapid osprey]

rarity corner?

[orchid acorn]

somehow circe into fates now you have 12 rerolls

[orchid acorn]

issue with judgement i find is that its not an arcana card

its a run modifier that should be a chaos trial basically

or some 4fun gamemode that somehow isn't a chaos trial

[neat frigate]

Def shouldn’t be a chaos trial it should be able to be taken into normal runs

[orchid acorn]

arcana cards should be something you pick to make a build, judgement is "don't pick a build" build

[neat frigate]

Imo

[broken glen]

Anti arcana arcana card

[orchid acorn]

i mena its a fair opinion, i like judgemnet as a concept but not as an arcana card

[rapid osprey]

the 10% divinity chance still doesn't seem worth over excellence tbh. I think you should leave the rarity of divinity at epic at max so it actually synergises with excellence rather than contest it

[oak ivy]

Anacra

[neat frigate]

1 out of 25 cards being a game altering gimmick is fine I think

[orchid acorn]

i disagree personally, its like having a capstone of the build that says "turn off your build"

its the final arcana card it doesn't need to the some broken giga strong stuff, but it should be like the rest of the arcana

hence why i kept the same theme and reworked it to be a after guardian buff

[neat frigate]

It doesn’t disable your build though… it trades your limit on grasp for a run that snowballs and requires more luck

[orchid acorn]

yes and disabling most of your grasp is disabling your build. Even in the case you go psycho mode and take 15 grasp its still removing your build

judgement has 2 use cases - void and "i decided to turn off my progression for some reason"

[neat frigate]

It doesn’t remove anything though it just saves it for later in the run

[orchid acorn]

its not a build choice you make like origination or night or death vs strenght etc

[neat frigate]

It’s not for nothing

[rapid osprey]

3. haha funny fun run

[orchid acorn]

thats the same as 2

[rapid osprey]

yeah but in a more positive light

[ebon oak]

I want a duo boon convo between Poseidon and Heph where Poseidon says he's great at coming up with ideas for what Heph should forge, to which Heph mentions that the last time Poseidon was allowed to give anyone ideas for a project, he managed to convince Daedelus into making a suit of armor shaped like a cow.

[oak ivy]

did you dm ry too btw?

[orchid acorn]

and in my opinion that doesn't have a place in a meta character progression skill tree but to each their own they felt it was the same

[broken raven]

Doesnt judgement end a run with more cards than you start

[neat frigate]

I want a duo boon convo with heph where his partner is nice to him

[orchid acorn]

it can

+15 cards, can start with i think 5 max?

[broken raven]

Right so like how is that turning off your progression

[orchid acorn]

Judgement + 3 + moon

[broken raven]

You’re just backloading it

[orchid acorn]

idk i just think its something wrong if you can't see the issue with ending with what you should've had from the beginning, but randomized

[broken raven]

Judgement regularly gets you over 30 grasp right like its not like the effect isnt powerful

[orchid acorn]

Is it fun for sure. Is it a gimmick absolutely

its not an arcana card by definition of the other 24

other than the fact well... they made it ne

[ebon oak]

Do you think Chaos Gates should be more common in surface runs than they currently are?

[broken raven]

Sure why not

[orchid acorn]

absolutely

[neat frigate]

I just don’t see how they could implement it other than as an arcana card in normal runs other than having a judgement button on the arcana screen

[orchid acorn]

they should have a chance to spawn outside of the door you took in ephyra upon exiting

[broken raven]

Chaos trial

[rapid osprey]

I don't take chaos too often anyway so idc either way lol

[arctic fog]

I just want a pool of purging or whatever its variation is going to be

Idk why they’ve been holding out on us

[neat frigate]

Restricting it to a chaos trial would be lame

[ebon oak]

They appear, like, once every 5 runs.

[orchid acorn]

it is quite literally the exact same

[broken raven]

Why that is functionally what a Judgement run is

[orchid acorn]

reminder that chaos trials are full runs now

[rapid osprey]

no you can't choose fear for chaos trials

[orchid acorn]

fair

[broken raven]

Add that then

[crude dragon]

Yeah

[orchid acorn]

it is absolutely a fair callout to say can't select your exact fear

still don't consider it to be worth an arcana card cause we functionally only have 24

[neat frigate]

You can’t add fear to chaos trials because a lot of them have built in vows

[broken raven]

Yeah so you cant add for those and others you can

[ebon oak]

Chaos Trials usually appear at least once every 3 runs Below, even without the Well item. Usually, it's every other run Below, sometimes multiple a run.

[rapid osprey]

Judgement being a niche gimmicky card is actually a reference to how Hades is actually washed, homeless, hoeless, and way past his prime

[broken raven]

Idk judgement is whatever

[orchid acorn]

have you seen bro in prison?

homie is yoked and would pull any girl

[neat frigate]

Sure you can add a new chaos trial and as a result add in vow functionality only for some of them or you can just let it be used in normal runs

[hearty fog]

Judgement is fine.

[rapid osprey]

he probably hasn't showered in eons bruh 😭

[neat frigate]

Chaos trials also don’t let you get resources

Last I checked

[orchid acorn]

or we could yknow have a usable 25th arcana card that would hopefully break up the monotony of having the entire right side be majority conditional

[broken raven]

Judgement is usable tho

[neat frigate]

There is plenty to work with arcana as it is now I don’t see making such a big deal out of one singular card

[orchid acorn]

usable in context of every other arcana we went over this.

[oak ivy]

[broken raven]

Why

[arctic fog]

What was your proposed rework?

[orchid acorn]

original one was ass and turbo broken

[neat frigate]

If your rework went through and put in diet steady growth it would be less interesting

[orchid acorn]

was literally current judgement slightly nerfed for 5 grasp

[rapid osprey]

are you saying you don't like hades???

[orchid acorn]

forgot to account for the fact you would just be 25/25 after like scylla

now its Judgement 5 grasp, Upon defeating a guardian 3/4/5 random boons gain Rarity.

keeps the same theme of beat boss get reward

[oak ivy]

yes I am in fact saying that... you know he's not my type smh!!

[crude dragon]

Yes, he has. Zagreus gave him at least 10 baths

[neat frigate]

I think if this happened the best thing is just to make judgement it’s own setting on the arcana menu through an incantation or something

[orchid acorn]

he may not your type, but you're his.

[broken raven]

Definitely think this is like orders of magnitude more sauceless than the current design like that sounds incredibly lame

[orchid acorn]

about to get the zeus treatment

[oak ivy]

oh no..............

[hearty fog]

At Mods, pin this.

[orchid acorn]

[orchid acorn]

def agree

[oak ivy]

that's a pretty funny joke yeah, 10/10 !!!

[orchid acorn]

still would use it though sometimes and it would actually fit in my builds

[rapid osprey]

women when they see a kind, caring, family oriented guy who just loves his wife:

[broken raven]

You should just use it

[orchid acorn]

no thanks i want to use my other 95% of arcana

yknow. like a build works

in my skill tree

that i upgraded and want to use

[hearty fog]

Judgement is perfectly viable for low Fear, around which the vast majority of H2's design revolves.

[oak ivy]

well I'm talking about his appearance purely... also at the beginning of Hades 1 he was very much the opposite of all that 😭

[neat frigate]

Nothing is stopping you man

That 4% of the skill tree can’t hurt you

[orchid acorn]

like you guys cannot deny that its fundamentally is not matching with the other 24 cards right?

[broken raven]

You can tho and you get over 30 grasp if you give up control of the build and play the roguelike video game

[orchid acorn]

it is straight up not cut from the same cloth

[rapid osprey]

he's just the biggest Tsundere of all time

[oak ivy]

that's kinda true!!

[neat frigate]

You’re the only person I’ve ever seen bring it up

[oak ivy]

that's actually really adorable hahah

[neat frigate]

So if it is I still wouldn’t say it’s to an extent that it needs to be removed

[broken raven]

No fun challenge mode in MY arcana deck!

[orchid acorn]

no completely different not build around cards in my arcana deck yes

[oak ivy]

-# @rapid osprey the people here are having actual serious discussions here, we are not needed anymore 💔

[orchid acorn]

i want a skill tree, not a difficulty setting or challenge mode

[arctic fog]

Judgment got me my first 40f fear back in the day when I was taking void 3 hubris 1 and hordes 2 bc I didn’t know how to make viable fear setups 🫩

[broken raven]

I mean if you aren’t building around judgement that’s a skill issue

Its 100% build aroundable

[neat frigate]

I have to stress again that it’s 1 out of 25 cards and completely optional

[orchid acorn]

i think you are intentionally taking the piss and missing the point here

[rapid osprey]

he may or may not be YOUR type, but he DID pull persephone, so he must be doing something right

[oak ivy]

true enough....

[broken raven]

No? Take things that make you stronger early? So you get the backloading from the arcana

[hearty fog]

@Pronto Oh, I take it back, if you can't make Judgement work it's a skill issue.

[orchid acorn]

There is no backloading

[hearty fog]

I can't make it work, it's a skill issue for me.

[arctic fog]

Much like thanatos, only hades’s side profile is attractive

[neat frigate]

I will not use void 🙅‍♂️🙅‍♂️ you can’t make me

[orchid acorn]

??????????????? where is this statement coming from

its not about making it work, its about how it doesn't fit arcana

[oak ivy]

I love Icarus so much because he's so hot and attractive from ALL the sides ❤️

[orchid acorn]

i can and have done judgement, mostly back in early EA

[broken raven]

Doesn’t it literally fit a bunch of different combos of arcana cards

[oak ivy]

that bath scene side view 🥺

[orchid acorn]

ok ill just disengage cause it has to be bait

[rapid osprey]

are we all just rage baiting pronto today? sounds fun tbh

[arctic fog]

Icarus is the only good H2 romance, I maintain this

[oak ivy]

yeah I think I agree

[broken raven]

Idk I think its super funny to call it ragebait that you can design strategy around Judgement

[oak ivy]

it definitely feels the most canon too, so I'm not complaining!!!

[little mason]

No bouldy best romance cant block the rock.

[rapid osprey]

I know she's trash personality wise but eris is hot af. also moros is a cutie patootie

[neat frigate]

Moros is the worst romance can we agree on that

[hearty fog]

I haven't given Eris any Nectar yet, probably going to wait until 1.0, but I agree very much.

[orchid acorn]

not ragebait, just intentionally misreading my words

[hearty fog]

Zag had more chemistry with Dusa, and he had no chemistry with Dusa.

[neat frigate]

Exactlyyy

There was never a single point in any moros mel interaction where I read any kind of romantic tension

[broken raven]

? You said it doesn’t work with the arcana cards but it literally does

[hearty fog]

Romantic, that is, everything around Dusa's storyline besides Zag suddenly coming on to her was peak.

[neat frigate]

Completely sauceless romance

[oak ivy]

Moros seems so clueless yeah 😭

[rapid osprey]

Zag only had chemistry with Thanatos tbh. Meg romance was mid asf

[orchid acorn]

its like when i call unseen untakable and you want to reply with unseen selected going "seems pretty takable to me", missing the entire context of the sentence itself and going literal

[orchid acorn]

yeah but she was bad

[rapid osprey]

my logic with eris basically

[orchid acorn]

who doesn't date mid romance for baddies

[broken raven]

Well yeah when you say stuff that’s like wrong im gonna point that out

[oak ivy]

honestly I won't judge for once

[orchid acorn]

its not wrong unless you intentionally misunderstand and argue from bad faith

[oak ivy]

you literally like Paige from Deadlock who is the opposite of a baddie 😔

[broken raven]

Its not bad faith to point out that unseen is takeable

[arctic fog]

I wanted to like moros so bad but he ended up being really bland 🙁

[orchid acorn]

that is a baddie th

[oak ivy]

she looks like just an adorable nerd!!

[neat frigate]

I hope Odysseus does literally anything in this game come 1.0 💔💔

[raven perch]

Meg romance was good!! The whole point is Zagreus has to grow into himself

[hearty fog]

Thanatos spent so much of his early dialogue berating Zag for trying to escape from an abusive house that any chemistry was pretty shot in my eyes.

[orchid acorn]

she has THICC thighs red hair and glasses and big [redacted] she is baddie

[little mason]

Hope we get a mirror and fall in love with ourselves.

[raven perch]

Thanatos is a whiny prickhole

[rapid osprey]

idk having shmex between the realms of life and death is the opposite of bland imo. Also have you SEEN him in the hot springs?

[oak ivy]

I mean personality wise.. but even then, I dont know if your definition of a baddie lines up here.....

[raven perch]

Who care about the location his character is kinda meh

[oak ivy]

wow.....

[neat frigate]

Mel and moros give the strongest coworker vibes of all time

And that’s it

[rapid osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/how-dare-you-harry-potter-excuse-me-what-gif-20321081

[hearty fog]

I get Than's stance. Yes, Mother Nyx has done a lot for Zagreus in the context of living in the House but she also is actively helping him contact his family and trying to get out.

[oak ivy]

I love seeing hot takes from meow, they're always so informed!!!

[broken raven]

Not all relationships fit into your preconceived notions of relationships and thats honestly kind of the point of Melinoe’s romances

[neat frigate]

It’s not about conventions it’s about I don’t think they have chemistry

[rapid osprey]

Than >>>>>>> Meg fight me right now

[hearty fog]

I'm not in love with Meow's exact vocabulary but I agree with him.

[raven perch]

Thanatos’ stance is that he’s upset Zagreus is running away without telling him and is finding any angle to attack him about it. Not even remembering that the reason Zag didn’t say anything is because Thanatos literally wasn’t there

[hearty fog]

Than is not great at the start of the game.

[broken raven]

They do right lol

[raven perch]

I will fight you!

[rapid osprey]

them getting past the misunderstandings is the best part tho!

[oak ivy]

guns or swords?

[rapid osprey]

fists

[unkempt zodiac]

Both are better than the h2 relationships...

[raven perch]

I mean maybe, if you cared enough about Thanatos to want that

[hearty fog]

I'm not reading any romantic chemistry between Melinoe and Moros. They get along well enough but there's like, no tension.

[neat frigate]

Mel icarus is the best romance in either game