#Shima vs. Poi vs. Kita
snow magnet
kek
nova canopy
somber oak
didn't you have this conversation in etcl already
snow magnet
somber oak
who's this gonna help in here
fathom rampart
I asked if anyone wanted to see and someone said yes
nova canopy
i dont see the point of a test with biased values
quasi glen
Summarize the conversation 
fathom rampart
no sinks in this one
median shuttle
why are they competing vs jobbers?
celest helm
they're all t0 why the fuck do we need to do this
fathom rampart
https://i.imgur.com/XUUyNZ8.png
https://i.imgur.com/oVzz715.png
shima sunk at 30s
poi sunk at 15s
kita sunk at 5s
median shuttle
can they beat hood?
median shuttle
this testing is really weird cuz you wouldnt run a triple dps vanguard. you would select two and then have a tank to tank for the dps
fathom rampart
celest helm
anchorage and eugen or something to wall them
this is honestly pointless if they arent able to do their maximum dps
fathom rampart
poi died 10s before on this one iirc
fathom rampart
I mean you can do the math on the egregious ones
nova canopy
median shuttle
noshiro would be fine as tank, honestly
fathom rampart
Shima should probably be T EX if you look at the results
elder willow
And give poi oxy torp instead of report
median shuttle
i do not disagree that shima is probably tex, but this testing needs work
fathom rampart
https://i.imgur.com/Q71rBE6.png
https://i.imgur.com/dAkzyyD.png
poi sunk at 30s, flagship sunk at 13s
nova canopy
if they're all t0
not really if he is coping on CN TL
quasi glen
TEX Shima, I like this thread
celest helm
not really if he is coping on CN TL
man since when did we become the nga server
fathom rampart
CN TL doesn’t have shima at T EX for general DD
median shuttle
kita is definitely t0, not tex
nova canopy
because shima isnt a general dd EX
celest helm
aw thats sad
fathom rampart
she kinda is, she’s really head and shoulders above her competition on all armor types
celest helm
let me convey my sadness over a tier with the worlds tiniest violin
fathom rampart
on auto as well
celest helm
NGA prios tankiness too
icy briar
listen, i do wanna tier EX her but at least i’m not so fucking that obsessed
median shuttle
i don't see the point in assessing what the tier list says. if you can demonstrate tex performance in testing, that speaks for itself
nova canopy
so its not general EX at all
celest helm
This is as ridiculous as the AMS t0 thread
fathom rampart
I mean I don’t think any tier list has had enough practical testing of Shimakaze or Poi to say much of anything which is why I shared these results
elder willow
And this also not the tier list discord server
celest helm
I mean I don’t think any tier list has had enough practical testing of Shimakaze...
bro
its
elder willow
This accomplished nothin
fathom rampart
Again I asked if people wanted to see it and someone said yes
median shuttle
someone remind me what tex criteria are
icy briar
Who
elder willow
Who
fathom rampart
You’re welcome to leave the thread if it’s making you upset
celest helm
who is this someone
median shuttle
me
fathom rampart
idk go look at the post bozo
celest helm
oh
fathom rampart
🤡
elder willow
K
icy briar
median shuttle
anyways, whats tex criteria?
nova canopy
someone remind me what tex criteria are
as in no one can compete to it dmg, bulk, utility
fathom rampart
dunno
icy briar
idk, ask the tier list
median shuttle
which of those three or all three?
quasi glen
Which tierlist 
nova canopy
all three if viable
median shuttle
so no one can compete in dmg, no one can compete in bulk, and no one can compete in utility all at same time?
nova canopy
can be 2 and heavily specialized like shima EX torp meme
quasi glen
Tierlist talk in GPH 🚮
nova canopy
but thats about it
icy briar
I couldn’t care less about Shima EX tier or not on a tier list where everyone realizes Shima is omega good because DR anyway
median shuttle
how is drake tex?
nova canopy
idk
elder willow
Also
icy briar
Idk as well
nova canopy
ectl on drugs
median shuttle
drake only has dmg, her tankiness and utility arent tex
elder willow
Isnt yuudachi buffing shimakaze here
Like alot
fathom rampart
a fair amount of buff from poi yeah
median shuttle
who do you personally consider tex - ignoring tier list
quasi glen
keep in mind ectl has JB at t3
But JB replaced by NJ everywhere
nova canopy
NJ only
fathom rampart
3 spreads of torpedoes and like 4 barrages or something
median shuttle
among all hulls?
nova canopy
ye
median shuttle
why is agir not tex?
median shuttle
agir has unmatched utility + tankiness + good dmg
icy briar
Shima has the highest dps vanguard
celest helm
icy briar
so basically his criteria is
elder willow
And get buffed by poi
So this testing even more bs
icy briar
“best at everything” = tEX
icy briar
which is also a stupid criteria but I don’t bother
median shuttle
why are you using a DD to discredit a CB ranking? Do you advocate for "Main fleet tierlist" and "VG tierlist"
nova canopy
TEX is a stupid criteria
fathom rampart
she isn’t buffed by poi throughout and her initial spreads are more likely to whiff anyway
elder willow
why are you using a DD to discredit a CB ranking? Do you advocate for "Main flee...
Who do that?
median shuttle
you made the criteria, why are you calling it stupid?
fathom rampart
there’s also no overkill in these numbers
nova canopy
because it is stupid
icy briar
pretty sure he made the criteria to show it’s stupid
celest helm
I can create something and call it stupid
fathom rampart
Shima really dunks on the competition in all armor types
median shuttle
ok, anyone else have any ideas on tex? cuz ppl arent defining it rationally
nova canopy
just because i made it doesnt mean ill shy away from saying its dumb
celest helm
ergo, my 2-1 command
celest helm
big surprise
how shocking
fathom rampart
you shouldn’t have came in the thread in the first place if all you were gonna do was piss and moan
elder willow
No
fathom rampart
look at the results or don’t
elder willow
We are giving feedback
nova canopy
i was actually interested
elder willow
And end screen same always give a big picture isnt it
icy briar
even the tier list says “this is helpful for middle game players to get a general consensus of how a ship perform”
deal with it, we have graduated past that point
fathom rampart
a light armor abyssal isn’t biased for shima
nova canopy
yuudachi's existance
fathom rampart
she isn’t 100 aff and she’s three levels below Kita
median shuttle
the tier list is irrelevant atm, i am just curious what ppl consider tex performance - and so far i've gotten "stupid" as a response
fathom rampart
Yuudachi does buff her a bit, like I said 3 spreads (2 of which are less likely to hit) and like 4 barrages
celest helm
Its more than just a bit
fathom rampart
but these fights are all longer than 30s
icy briar
tier EX is a subjective tiering criteria in the first place
nova canopy
all shima needs is 30s
median shuttle
thats why i am asking individuals, not a group
nova canopy
to create a huge lead
fathom rampart
more of this damage is unbuffed than buffed
elder willow
When 96% of shima dmg are torp
And look at the endscreen
Yea she do buffed her a lot
nova canopy
at least try them out with no buffs
fathom rampart
When 96% of shima dmg are torp
And look at the endscreen
Yea she do buffed her a...
you’re aware her buff only last 30s right lil bro
nova canopy
https://i.imgur.com/Q71rBE6.png
https://i.imgur.com/dAkzyyD.png
poi sunk at 30s,...
also dont test here, this has innately 25% torp dmg
icy briar
that’s 3 salvoes
celest helm
and you chose abyss?
elder willow
More preload is always good va sirenboss
There are no mob to wasted it on anyway
U get 100
% dmg on the boss
icy briar
someone really having some beef with the tier list tiering
fathom rampart
according to bomb the first spreads are more likely to miss anyway
celest helm
quint mags
fathom rampart
which I tend to agree with
nova canopy
not entirely
elder willow
It magtorp
fathom rampart
quint mags
quad
icy briar
i tested out Shima even more than you and i can confirm as long as she isn’t in a triple DD vanguard, her first preload won’t miss
icy briar
right now if i can feed her 300 exp packs
nova canopy
do it
icy briar
No
median shuttle
i'll vouch for his claim, i ran shima quite a bit as well
icy briar
True simp enjoys using her instead of dumping exp packs
elder willow
i'll vouch for his claim, i ran shima quite a bit as well
I also ran shima
I found her really good
But this is comperation is bias
icy briar
i’ll admit it, i’ve been running for Shima TEX since her release
but this is just ridiculous
median shuttle
we're sharing anecdotes to reach conclusions. what would you do?
nova canopy
@fathom rampart hold on, on the test vs BB
was yuudachi still using twin 114mm
if she was
fathom rampart
yeah I didn’t change gear at all throughout
silent horizon
this testing is really weird cuz you wouldnt run a triple dps vanguard. you woul...
It's also jank cuz I just see twin 114 being used against a large number of medium and heavy armor enemies
and that's dumb as shit
fathom rampart
Poi’s numbers were a little weaker than I expected but that’s mostly because she died
nova canopy
elder willow
Also that
silent horizon
Poi isn't kita who woulda thunk it
elder willow
Dying kek
median shuttle
its not hard to baby a DD vanguard. illustrious wouldve carried them better than percy
fathom rampart
nah I think Poi is probably about the same as Kita outside of Sirens which these are
She also offers a lot more than just damage
nova canopy
the heavy one is really
fathom rampart
why would I swap gear, I was mostly looking to see what Shima would do anyway
silent horizon
Especially when prelim calcs had her beating kita with twin 128skc in the first place. Twin 114 seems like a dumb pick for ST
median shuttle
thats fine, then test shima in a vg where she doesnt die. the other two arent relevant to the conversation cuz they obviously lose to shima
median shuttle
good lord, you dont need the entire coast guard for a dd vanguard
fathom rampart
there’s not really anything else good to test shima on
mobbing will be overkill city
silent horizon
The conversation is literally "Shima vs Poi vs Kita" you can't just gimp 1/3rd of that and say it's valid testing
fathom rampart
Taihou favors shima
nova canopy
i mean
median shuttle
just cut out kita and yuudachi and test shima vs bbs
fathom rampart
I don’t really care to test anymore anyway because I don’t even like Shima
but she definitely feels T EX to me
nova canopy
havent we established already beats drake and shit, so why not just vs kita and poi only
silent horizon
All this shows is "Poi with wrong gun isn't as good as Shima and Kita with BiS gear"
nova canopy
shima test wasnt really needed when it was proven already
silent horizon
Which isn't surprising anyone
icy briar
Drake cannot hit 210k auto like Shima, checkmate believers
median shuttle
kita vs yuudachi actually is a good competition if thats tested well
fathom rampart
swapping to a baguette for the BB boss isn’t gonna make up 50k dmg
she’d be competitive with kita but not shima
nova canopy
then go try it out again
elder willow
Poi inst as good as dps as shimakaze yes
Shimakaze out dps 2 other ship sure
That doesnt mean she enough to be tier ex
icy briar
Remove her buff first then maybe
elder willow
The dmg is inflated
median shuttle
if she is top vanguard dps, i think thats a good argument if she sets the ceiling for vg dmg
elder willow
So t0
nova canopy
she already did
silent horizon
This is just memeing. Why name the thread "Shima vs. Poi vs. Kita" if you're ignoring the Poi vs Kita part
elder willow
She needed to do more if want tier ex
median shuttle
why place her with ppl who she doubles in dmg?
fathom rampart
do you think if I were to run this with less shima bias it would actually be any different? Like actually? Do you really think Shima isn’t winning every time? Or are you just whining just to whine
nova canopy
idk, ectl pepega
fathom rampart
You’re welcome to do your own tests if you’d like
silent horizon
Papi are you reading anything I'm saying?
nova canopy
anyway nga solved it by having separate dd tierlist
elder willow
do you think if I were to run this with less shima bias it would actually be any...
Shima going to lose out big time if solo
And in mob fight
nova canopy
i dont get why ectl wont do it as well
median shuttle
"Ship A and Ship B are both T0. Also, Ship A beats Ship B by like 100k dmg"
silent horizon
Or are you just reading the parts you want to read?
nova canopy
when dds are really different
fathom rampart
Shima is gonna lose in mobs? Are you high
icy briar
no minus
nova canopy
minus
icy briar
Shima is fucking awesome in mobs
elder willow
Well if u put her in a fleet sure
median shuttle
if you are lapping your competition, you should be uptiered
fathom rampart
This is just memeing. Why name the thread "Shima vs. Poi vs. Kita" if you're ign...
Poi vs Kita seems comparable, I don’t see anything different from the prelim dps calcs so it’s not really interesting to me
nova canopy
her different torp speed
fathom rampart
She’s lost badly in an unfavorable matchup
icy briar
the whole idea is “being in a fleet”
nova canopy
actually is pog on mobbing
since it stagers the 2nd wave, while the barrage clears the first
pretty gucci
way better than duca or ibuki consistently
median shuttle
its basically 4 preloads
icy briar
This thread is going nowhere
median shuttle
it is going somewhere, we established shima laps t0 DDs, so she is TEX
nova canopy
so when is the poi vs kita
icy briar
I couldn’t care less about she is T EX or not
icy briar
Like
median shuttle
it doesnt matter if you care or not, her performance speaks for itself
celest helm
Fun fact:
silent horizon
gonna happen seriously
he doesn't care enough. Just likes making clickbait thread names
icy briar
that’s not even what i mean
icy briar
If her performance is TEX level and we know about that, does it really matter if the tier list puts her in TEX or not
celest helm
so whens the poi vs kita part
median shuttle
thats what ive been saying
fathom rampart
do more poi vs. kita yourselves, I’ve seen enough to say their damage is pretty similar
elder willow
shimakaze tier ex: sure, t0 is alright too mostpeople wont care
but this pictures of endscreen sama is so bias toward shimakaze
i found it fucking bias
so where kitakaze vs yuudachi
fucking" do it urself"
fathom rampart
Kita should win against sirens
silent horizon
Nobody is even surprised that shima beat the other two
The only one actually interesting would've been checking if poi vs kita actually has poi winning
nova canopy
do more poi vs. kita yourselves, I’ve seen enough to say their damage is pretty ...
but wheres the sumner
celest helm
Let me remind you all that she is still under prelim and she could very well be tEX but not right now due to the sheer fact shes a 3 week old ship?
silent horizon
But then we went all pepega just to show "Hey, Shima does indeed beat the other two. Just like everyone expected"
Big surprise
nova canopy
unironically speaking, CN loves ingram more than AMS
fathom rampart
you’re not surprised Shima beats the others on light armor? I sure am
median shuttle
shes not gonna go to tex cuz ectl doesnt have consistent criteria and is spaghetti when it comes to updating ship listings
icy briar
let me remind you that ECTL evals are casuals and imagine not having a full fledged Shima to test 
celest helm
shes not gonna go to tex cuz ectl doesnt have consistent criteria and is spaghet...
Then why does she still have the preliminary tag
nova canopy
let me remind you that ECTL evals are casuals and imagine not having a full fled...
remember, T3 JB isnt BS 🙂
fathom rampart
on heavy no contest but on light, by that much? Crazy results
median shuttle
formality, they will keep it there until they remember she's not new anymore
celest helm
The testing is still being done and were just waiting for it finalized.
elder willow
you’re not surprised Shima beats the others on light armor? I sure am
who know what happen in the fight
all we got is a picture of dmg to go with
how the fucked do we know how they performance
quasi glen
Is HelMeta and ArkKai still prelims?
celest helm
No
nova canopy
souryuu is
silent horizon
Arkkai has too many tags for where she is smh
fathom rampart
who know what happen in the fight
all we got is a picture of dmg to go with
how...
I don’t even know what you’re saying and honestly you’re an annoying little shrew, please fuck off
celest helm
Arkkai got downtiered and has no tags
elder willow
you can base something of endscreen
fathom rampart
you dispute everything I’ve ever said
silent horizon
Arkkai got downtiered and has no tags
that's mark
fathom rampart
you wanna talk bias? That’s you
celest helm
Oh fuck im dumb
fathom rampart
now get the fuck outta my thread
silent horizon
arkkai is still t1 with 2 tags
nova canopy
ngl i wanna know what ectl saw in JB to be downtiered into t3
meanwhile CN has her in T1 main page
icy briar
now get the fuck outta my thread
Rude
elder willow
i am using bias vs bias
so you needed prove ur point better
nova canopy
celest helm
you wanna talk bias? That’s you
Big talk with someone who insists on AMS t0
fathom rampart
AMS competes with T0 damage dealers, don’t see the big problem
silent horizon
uh
This place might be unmoderated but y'all can just stahp
fathom rampart
have you used her yourself? Or are you just parroting what other people say
haven’t seen anyone actually test AMS post buff except me
additionally this isn’t an AMS thread
celest helm
I'm just saying you have biased views on ams cause you see her as your waifu, I don't doubt her performance
fathom rampart
so idk how that’s even relevant
silent horizon
I mean, this was also supposed to be a poi vs kita thread
That didn't happen either
fathom rampart
then why bring it up if you don’t doubt her performance
elder willow
i have used her myself, tEX sure
but this test downplay kitakaze and yuudachi a lot
and shimakaze have bufing buffed and preload vs single target boss?
this test doesnt give a anything close on how yuudachi vs kitakaze vs shimakaze
celest helm
Also yes, can we PLEASE get to the poi vs kita part.
quasi glen
Was poi noticably tankier
left forge
🍿
fathom rampart
poi was tanking and that wasn’t the best idea for bosses
nova canopy
Was poi noticably tankier
some testing shows she can main tank souryuu, but not consistent
fathom rampart
in mobs I think poi is a legit tank
nova canopy
she can die
median shuttle
there are a lot of legit tanks in mobs, thats not saying much
quasi glen
Hmm, dying at what part
I had a shit Sirius "tanking"
celest helm
Alot of ships can tank
nova canopy
iirc during 40s post
celest helm
Leave that out of here
fathom rampart
well she’s still a DD, you can’t expect Anchorage level tanking
median shuttle
ppl are deluded into thinking minnea can tank because she can tank mobs
fathom rampart
she’s surely the tankiest DD
nova canopy
it depends on how fcked she was by the early barrage of souryuu
if she wasnt hit a lot
median shuttle
ykk is prolly tankier than yuudachi
nova canopy
she lives like a normal souryuu tank
celest helm
ppl are deluded into thinking minnea can tank because she can tank mobs
Alot of people say minnea is a mob tank not a tank in general so 
median shuttle
she isnt tho
quasi glen
Leave that out of here
I don't see what your contributing except defending ENTL
Tanking SourM is perfectly valid if she lives
icy briar
this thread is going nowhere
median shuttle
no, shes a mob dps. tank is nowhere describing her
celest helm
try bringing her to boss and she gets shredded
fathom rampart
mebot eHP sheet has poi slightly ahead of ykkz, CN eHP calcs has ykkz slightly ahead of poi
median shuttle
half her kit is irrelevant tho. her blue skill is rly bad
celest helm
no, shes a mob dps. tank is nowhere describing her
Minneapolis is a mob tank because mobs are a slow burn and has phases and she has a healing skill to cover her, she can't tank boss because bosses are a burst in damage.
nova canopy
@quasi glen oh yeah thats assuming 125 btw, so if 120 dont bother main tanking her vs souryuu
icy briar
it’s bad for a zombie skill, doesn’t mean she cannot tank mobs
quasi glen
she lives like a normal souryuu tank
40s is just half though?
Not sure thats especially impressive, but maybe thats mob tank material
nova canopy
thats why i said its inconsistent
median shuttle
any ship can tank in mobs because there is a healer present. that doesnt mean that every ship is a mob tank
nova canopy
aka dont main tank her if possible
icy briar
that’s the exact CN take coming off from you
celest helm
any ship can tank in mobs because there is a healer present. that doesnt mean th...
... she has a heal skill and she has a large hp pool.
this isnt taking into fact healers.
wait not large
icy briar
no cleo her HP pool is ridiculous small
median shuttle
heal skill that will never resolve in a mob setting - 2 tics 
celest helm
but a decent hp pool
median shuttle
4k is not decent
quasi glen
Well 40s sounds above CL average at least
nova canopy
her ehp showcases a bulky CL, but not a bulky CA
also light armor vs shelling is
celest helm
heal skill that will never resolve in a mob setting - 2 tics <:z35wow:4714653249...
Did you actually use her in a mob fleet with alot of battles
Or no
median shuttle
yes, belfast is 10x better mob tank
celest helm
I let belfast tank she crashed and burn, let minne do it shes done fine
median shuttle
sounds reasonable
nova canopy
its a risky setup, but yuudachi main with shima off is one of the highest dps you can get atm.
Can just go agir/shima tho for more consistency
celest helm
and again, the poi vs kita part is not here
median shuttle
idk why ppl are pretending theyre shackled here
celest helm
Cause the thread isn't going to its main point on why were here
fathom rampart
if you can’t parse kita vs. poi I’m sorry
they put up pretty similar numbers
as expected
celest helm
I'm mostly gonna watch the poi vs kita part cause I dont own them lmao
fathom rampart
the only times poi really lagged behind she either died early or had a bad matchup
icy briar
After i raise poi to 125 i may put up my own comparison
fathom rampart
she also doesn’t have siren killer
silent horizon
tfw the only actual question was whether poi beating kita on paper carries over to practice
But wrong gun means the testing just has "haha they're similar you dumb if you can't understand"
fathom rampart
The prelim dps calcs I saw had kita slightly ahead of poi
silent horizon
current dps calcs have poi higher with 128skc
silent horizon
everything
icy briar
the prelim dps calc doesn’t fucking have poi mgm+1
silent horizon
but it's not interesting enough because "haha they're similar enough"
median shuttle
does yuudachi have a good aoa?
fathom rampart
lol
silent horizon
must be dumb to not care about the real interesting part that shima is better when everyone already knew that
fathom rampart
must be dumb to not care about the real interesting part that shima is better wh...
did you really think shima would dunk the others on light armor tho
that was the biggest surprise to me
silent horizon
does yuudachi have a good aoa?
it's good but not amazing enough to warrant blindly using twin 114 everywhere like a potato. Her gun damage is important too.
celest helm
I think its pretty impressive poi still managed to be only slightly behind kita with no +1
nova canopy
yuudachi aoa is ok
median shuttle
is it good? did it get updated?
nova canopy
its near nimi lv
icy briar
I do, torps still have 80% mod against light armor, not like torps are absolute dog shit against light like AP BB
celest helm
did cn make a new calc with plus one
median shuttle
oh, lol
median shuttle
yeah, the spread is very silly. they shoulda given it a retrain
silent horizon
SKC poi, 130mm poi, 114 kita
median shuttle
i'll wait for newbie's testing
silent horizon
and that's why this is more interesting cuz I wanna know how much of this carries over into practice
median shuttle
someone get me the eldridge math. i wanna see the weight this cute astronaut girl is pulling
nova canopy
lemme contact cherry
median shuttle
lol, her aoa is very pleasing to watch
fathom rampart
doing more rigorous testing between kita and poi specifically seems difficult
silent horizon
eldridge 128skc
fathom rampart
there’s not many good testing grounds if any
median shuttle
10-4 / 11-4 is okay testing
fathom rampart
abyssals are nice because no overkill and full uptime but they’re also sirens
nova canopy
12-1 also works
median shuttle
12-1 has too much trash
fathom rampart
and kita should have the edge on sirens still
15% tacked on to that 910.8 has kita beating skc poi by like 10 dps
median shuttle
ty for thread, it was enjoyable for what i was able to glean
fathom rampart
thanks