@rustic gull ok it's done, 12-1 full clear + 1 ambush with tirpitz 1 fleeting
#tirpitz 1 fleeting to ch 12, full f2p
stone pawn
solid parcel
did u turn down tech?
stone pawn
chikuma from where
fathom wolf
this is a new account, tech is pathetic anyway
fathom wolf
chikuma from where
random build from musa event pool, she is perma and i just needed a tank
also have a lv125 musa but i didn't used her for ch 12 clear
a quick tldr is:
tirpitz will not hurt your progression at all, picking her over other medal bb/bc for ib tech is totally viable
stop to build a second fleet is ok but i think there might be gear and bulin issue as one fleeting i just barely have enough gears, and only 4 spare gold bulins left.
used chikuma just because i got her before eugen, she is there because i need a tanky ship to take starter dd's place
fathom wolf
i will leave this account there for now, let me know if you want to see how the fleet performs in later chapters like 12-4 or even 13-1
rustic gull
Alright then
You certainly have made a compelling case
Just curious though
For the next event could you see how much you're off from meeting D1's stat requirements with what you have?
turbid ridge
i'm not really sure what this is supposed to say really. ofc you can get to chapter 12 if you picked tirp over hood, the question would moreso be if there's an appreciable time difference and if you can't just do a bit of divergent chessboard + guild shop which can pretty much get you to avp/fdg tech levels off of MLB elites and below alone
rustic gull
well the obvious advantage would be you would gurantee a 3rd iron blood main fleet to grind XP with which is nice
and Tirpitz does give a you a massive chunk of tech points
almost a 3rd from her alone to what FDG needs so that does save you needing to MLB a number of other ships
as for if there's an appreciable time difference
if you didn't buy the level 70 pack or have any other booster I'm not convinced you would
because the bottlekeck here was commander levels
with it or an XP boosting event
I'm not sure to be honest
I'm not gonna start outright reccomending it over just 2 fleeting I don't think
but it does present another option and flexibility in what to do in case of strange circumstances which people often come here with in terms of dock
turbid ridge
gneis+scharn+hipper+deutschland+Z35+Z1 = 376 MLB from divergent chessboard
spee+Z25 = 98 MLB from guild shop
Z23 = 42 MLB if it's your starter
konigsberg class + leipzig = 92 MLB
all of this is 608. though yes, commander xp can bottleneck a bit, and tirp does have not terrible 120 tech. just that technically if you put some focus towards something akin to this flowchart tirp might not speed up avp/fdg acquisition that much
rustic gull
I'm not saying you can't get enough without tirpitz
I'm saying you could make things a bit easier just by maxing tirpitz and save some XP and Bullins(not that you really need to save)
turbid ridge
another player is going to start a new account and see how viable it is to go through this line and see how fast it ends up being
rustic gull
at least for FDG
turbid ridge
some people say tirp helps with the speed, others think it doesn't help enough; the above would press down slightly more on bulins but a number of them are drop botes and there's actually a couple commons + a rare that i didn't list there that push it over fdg points
rustic gull
and going beyond her you will need her anyway if you don't get lucky with an iron blood event
turbid ridge
though purples vs gold is still a bit of a subjective argument
rustic gull
like 4 Bullins is obviously gonna be more valuable than purples
turbid ridge
currently i am more of the idea that even if tirp ends up being a little bit faster it might not end up making a real difference. i actually think it may very well depend on timing
rustic gull
but newer players are gonna have to a juggling act between leveling ships to use and replace what they have and level ships for tech
turbid ridge
fdg takes a while to get up to speed and the most important part of this game, opsi, is on a monthly rotation. if tirp does end up making things a little faster and you happen to have an fdg up to speed before the end of the month that you really do need; then that would make a tangible and important difference
rustic gull
so just having to level up tirpitz frees up a few spots on the dorm and/or a few hundred XP packs over max limit breaking a bunch of the elites and such
well such a thing is diffiuclt to predict
but it's very much a acse of better to have it and not need it and not the other way around
turbid ridge
the opposing point would be if bulins and dupes end up being manageable that's also less effort that you have putting into leveling botes that you're not really gonna need later. the above meets avp/fdg reqs without putting any effort to 120; realistically there's also gonna be some stray IB botes that you get so that you do not need to follow this chart to a T
rustic gull
no
but at the same time there's no gurantee that you will and I don't believe in making a guide/strat around something that revolves around RNG
certainly we're not reccomending people follow anything to a T becuase circumstances change
turbid ridge
let me just offer another quick point about the subject of this thread
rustic gull
but as a sort of baseline to modify/change if the circumstances factors it, I don't think it's terrible
turbid ridge
the idea that your progression isn't stumped when the criteria is just "get to chapter 12" is a little shortsighted
rustic gull
huh
turbid ridge
obviously hood would do better than tirp for opsi, which is pretty important, and unlocks at 60
rustic gull
that's a valid point
but I think the whole sort of proof of concept is that Tirpitz won't be that much worse because of everything else being kinda shit
so in the short term between unlocking OpSi and leveling up something better like Nelson retro
is it gonna matter that much
not saying it won't
just throwing the thought out there
turbid ridge
personally i slogged through opsi as a new player, i managed well from the start though it was with a lot of manual. main opsi struggles at the start was that enemy planes are actually not irrelevant there to a new player. a carrier node one corrosion level down actually presented harder than the others one corrosion higher. it's kind of a pain you follow through when you only have some purple guns that might not even be +10; but i digress. in that sense, maybe newer players should pay slightly more attention to their AA abilities than is usually touted
rustic gull
it's an interesting insite but how is this related again Titpitz vs Hood
because neither is really gonna help with the issue planes
turbid ridge
it isn't really. i just felt like going on a slight tangent since i did mention opsi for newer players so felt like sharing my own personal experience vs what is also recommended
rustic gull
I see
turbid ridge
beyond of course just hood providing more firepower so you don't have to endure it as long, but that's just restating the previous point. i do think that with opsi being basically the most important part of this game it is worth really keeping in mind how everything else ends up influencing progress on it. maybe tirp gets you an fdg considerably faster on average and you have extra URs that'll help in earlier months, maybe not. it's hard to keep track of all the resources required. going the pure divergent chessboard/guild shop way does appear to me viable, but how good only testing will tell
rustic gull
I can see what you're getting
but at the same time I must reiterate, most AL players are allergic to Operation Siren, most of them will not touch it with a 10 foot pole and it will be the last thing they do.
I've seen plenty of docks where players are making good progress on PR but pretty much none of them have made anywhere close to good progress on OpSi.
At which point the choice of Hood vs Tirpitz is long since moot.
The rush to get to chapter 12, as I see it anyway, is basically a, you now have all the tools to almost whatever you want in AL.
Because W12 provides the premier farming spot overall, you get coins to do rolls, upgrade gear, limit break ships, etc and also a good spot to level up ships.
And at that point you can farm events without issue as well which is what most are gonna care about anyway.
turbid ridge
it's true that there's a good bit of opsi allergy around; i would not really know what the goal of most players truly is beyond just "acquiring their waifus". the more casual player might not even feel like getting past chapter 12, and if they don't wish to engage in opsi, then they can't really see themselves pulling off oneshots in META or clearing CM/EX very fast/easy either. it'll take a good while for them, slowly stacking up URs to compensate for their lack of gears, to start performing better there
rustic gull
yeah, and W12 actively helps towards getting your waifus because you have a good spot to grind for coins to do pulls now
whereas OpSi and W13 beyond really doesn't unless your waifu happens to one of the showdown METAs or late campaign drop ships
I do recall one rather amusing isntance in which one of the mods/admins came into ask for advice on behalf of a friend who wanted to farm Houston 2 because they really liked her.
said friend had not made it past W12 and progress on both PR and OpSi was poor to say the least.
and not that I can say for certain, but I really do think the majority AL player's goals are to just collect waifus
and not even all of them
just the ones they like
turbid ridge
i've a friend who's been playing the game for like over 5 years and he hadn't gotten past W10. i had to convince him to spend just a little bit of time to get to a much better grinding spot
fathom wolf
beyond of course just hood providing more firepower so you don't have to endure ...
i do have a question here: what is hood's expected dps when bossing? i never get the point why people here like hood so much, her dps on paper isn't much better than tirpitz even with aug is my understanding so i don't really think using hood would help opsi much.
stone pawn
hood has good mob barrage or so ppl have told me 
fathom wolf
my own testing and CN chart gave me the impression that hood is only doing 70% to 75% of top gold bb's dps, which is very low tbh...
stone pawn
honestly i dont think it would make much/any difference because you'd be wanting to move to a better bb as soon as possible, top end golds have a clear gap between them and the medal shop bbs and the gap is even bigger for ur bbs
fathom wolf
hood has good mob barrage or so ppl have told me <:UniSip:588629689564790788>
that's certainly true but you know, opsi mob isn't that hard 
stone pawn
in that sense i'd side with you on tirpy
because she directly helps you unlock higher end bbs
turbid ridge
that's certainly true but you know, opsi mob isn't that hard <:PortDoll:58558524...
it gets easier in a reasonable amount of time yes, though at the start it's still a pain in the ass if a newer player goes at opsi as soon as they are able to
stone pawn
hood helps for plymouth instead which is lower priority tbh
personally my own experience said until i got nagato meta i had no good bb, even nelson was merely ok
because my cvs carried every fight
uni and sara, sometimes indep
they almost always outperformed nelson
and not by just a little
nagato meta is also pretty much 2-3x or more nelson output 
fathom wolf
it gets easier in a reasonable amount of time yes, though at the start it's stil...
well, i can't say how painful since i just went through opsi in my EN with musa, it was easy af
stone pawn
and ruppy is slightly behind nagato but much ahead of early gold bbs all the same
ergo...why bother with picking a slightly better noob bb you'll ditch soon
if the other one helps you get better bbs faster
turbid ridge
i can see hood's superiority in opsi mob being relevant enough, also the DD abyssal is light armor and is probably one of the most annoying for newer players as well, hood reload buff probably helps clear thresholds for darkness and dealing enough dmg
hood's rld buff is a little underrated
stone pawn
i also went hood and unlocking kms tech was rather painful and destroyed all my resources
fathom wolf
yeah from a new player pov, enty is like a monster compared to those bbs
turbid ridge
also this is a bit of a longer-term point but...
stone pawn
i have a funny screenshot of sara doing 5x more dmg than hood in ch10 or ch11 
granted hood no augment bc i was waiting to see if she's worth investing in and um i decided she wasnt lmfao
even if it doubled her dps though it would still be very underwhelming
even tripled wouldve been barely worth
turbid ridge
getting HMS tech feels harder than other factions for me, especially getting to the 2100 threshold which you want for carrier reload
stone pawn
it is hard
however i feel like by the time high levels of tech become important to you, youll be able to pick whatever you want from medal shop
since you move way beyond all of them by then, it's not so important to get hood asap
fathom wolf
more like, hms has shit tons of bad dds clogging the tech pool
stone pawn
hood help me for sure to unlock ply
fathom wolf
and lacking good ca and cl
stone pawn
but 
i wouldnt actually be too far behind on it if i had tirpy sparing a dozen purple bulins for me
in the end i think both picks have their tech pro and con
neither is particularly impressive the moment you get even a higher end bb let alone a UR or top gold
fathom wolf
getting HMS tech feels harder than other factions for me, especially getting to ...
anyway, at that point, it's hard to believe you didn't get hood cuz you decide not to pick her when you begin the account
stone pawn
if both work to carry you to ch12 fine it would be entirely about whose tech helps more early on
fathom wolf
and actually i believe that if you need a hms bb, using nelson would be better than hood
turbid ridge
if both work to carry you to ch12 fine it would be entirely about whose tech hel...
well that's the thing, getting to chapter 12 vs easier time in opsi at the start is kind of a "depends on what you want to accomplish in this game and how much effort you want to put in" type of thing
fathom wolf
she has cl aux, doesn't cost gold bulin, doesn't need aug so you can save for sandy, uses bb retro mat which nobody else wants in early game, has better overall dps than hood, easy to acquire as she's free from rookie mission... i don't see a reason using hood over her
turbid ridge
while fdg is still UR BB and all that, she shines mostly in W14 than anywhere else; i would even argue the most impactful bote here is probably going to be avp and not fdg
at this point in time i'm more inclined to think that
fathom wolf
avp needs ib tech point so getting both is what usually happens
fathom wolf
iirc avp 600 and fdg 630
ok let's put tirpitz related part aside for now
what about the "one fleeting" part? that includes the other half of beginner choice: get sandy and retro her, get enty from rookie mission, and no 2nd fleet until ch 12
turbid ridge
and actually i believe that if you need a hms bb, using nelson would be better t...
i've seen a fair share of nelson vs hood arguments, which usually boil down to resource/how much you can extract of each of them
well that's somewhat straightforward, though sandy retro is expensive so it might take a short while to come online between all the bulins/sandy dupes and coins you need
as well as the prints
fathom wolf
it actually doesn't take long, since you are one fleeting, all resources goes to one fleet, so no bulin/coin issue
hardest part is the prints but the important nodes only takes 12 gold ones, which you can get enough from hm 3 star rewards + guild shop rng + some weekly mission rewards rng
she also resolves any AA problem you might encounter
stone pawn
well that's the thing, getting to chapter 12 vs easier time in opsi at the start...
fair fair
i mean i used nelson in opsi and had zero issue
my first opsi fleet was nelson uni sara portland laffey sirius 
turbid ridge
it actually doesn't take long, since you are one fleeting, all resources goes to...
i would have to ask if there's a reason why you had chikuma instead of helena, just playing it safe with the tanking?
fathom wolf
yeah just playing safe
not just tanking, had bad experience with unleveled helena before
3 tanky ships makes me feel safe when pushing contents
stone pawn
helena didnt do much for me in early campaign so i agree with this
turbid ridge
doesn't help as much in campaign but since she transitions to being extremely helpful to newer players on other bosses outside campaigns becomes a nobrainer regardless
personally, i never used her, because i don't like the all or nothing nature of it
stone pawn
i dislike using her yeah
turbid ridge
but that's just a personal gripe and nothing about her general effectiveness
stone pawn
i only use her if i have no other option
me resetting harby 8 times to get a single helena proc demonstrates why she should be a port waifu and not a battle one
and then i still didnt hit 50%
fathom wolf
anyway, if i didn't get chikuma i would have used starter or eugen, doesn't make a huge difference here
fathom wolf
For the next event could you see how much you're off from meeting D1's stat req...
will do
fathom wolf
while fdg is still UR BB and all that, she shines mostly in W14 than anywhere el...
alright you know what, let me see how fast i can get to avp and fdg from this point
current ib point is 374, i accidentally got uvh so i will add 56 to the goal
656 for avp and 686 for fdg
turbid ridge
alright you know what, let me see how fast i can get to avp and fdg from this po...
how old is the acc?
you could still technically follow the path i mentioned and more or less get an idea how long it would take if doing it from scratch i guess
fathom wolf
20 days
you mean getting hood as a new player?
or grinding dc for ib tech? @turbid ridge
i mean, the point of getting tirpitz is more about not needing to grind wa and still have enough ib tech points
turbid ridge
or grinding dc for ib tech? <@402088937276833813>
i meant the viability of just doing this:
gneis+scharn+hipper+deutschland+Z35+Z1 = 376 MLB from divergent chessboard
spee+Z25 = 98 MLB from guild shop
Z23 = 42 MLB if it's your starter
konigsberg class + leipzig = 92 MLB
rustic gull
I don't think you can cut out grinding DC entirely no matter you really look at it with just Tirpitz
stone pawn
it does help a fair bit tho, particularly in reducing the purple bulins used, in exchange for using golds
kms tech wiped out more than a months worth of purple bulins for me iirc
rustic gull
yeah, don't underestimate how fast purple bullins disappear when you find something to do with them
fathom wolf
tirpitz lv120 180
eugen 84
Königsberg class 20 + 20 +20
leipzig 32
z23 lv 120 62
guild shop: spee 56, z25 42, hipper 72, u556 24, u557 24, u73 20
getting roon 38
that's 694 in total
not counting merit shop ships and u96, z46 from medal and getting mainz and sharn in core data shop, altho getting sharn is not ideal
rustic gull
max limit breaking eugen yeah...
not sure if I can get behind that
also if nothing else, you'd at least another IB main fleet to make the grind go faster
turbid ridge
there is a rare and two commons in DC which you'll most likely get to MLB without much effort that add up to 62 extra
i didn't write those down cuz i forgot
fathom wolf
that's a valid point, but backline exp grinding isn't even that bad with 1 ship, as flag+mvp is 3x exp, same as 3 vanguards no mvp
stone pawn
im grinding avp out with just ruppy and its going ok
fathom wolf
vanguard flagship when
i remember seeing it on some kind of offline game event but nothing after that
rustic gull
yeah I suppose but getting the grind done that much faster, the sooner you can get FDG maxed among other points
I would also say depending on what set up you do end up running Tirpitz may not even gurantee getting MvP half the time
becaue a lot of newer players do end up running Unicorn to carry the fleet for farming because they don't have the gears and such to drag ships through W12 quite yet
fathom wolf
backline mvp control is easier: just don't follow the beginner guides
emmm, actually, as long as they don't want to waste too much exp, they don't really have much chance, and will probably switch to shouhou soon
good healers are just used everywhere and they ended up getting too much exp too fast
rustic gull
can't argue with that
stone pawn
use unicorn with no equips (or AA fighter) so she heals but doesnt do damage 
fathom wolf
yeah probably a zero or something
rustic gull
unironically I have been toying around with the idea of running Perseus with a Fw-190 A5 and maybe a +0 Breguet for when I finally run out of main fleets to farm
fathom wolf
oh yeah you reminded me, i need an AR
rustic gull
that unironically might actually be better than Unicorn for a new player farming W12 but man I do not wanna reccomend people to level up an AR....
fathom wolf
true
you know my leveling fleet in CN is even more cursed: akashi + 0lb uni + 0lb ryuuhou
rustic gull
yeah....
stone pawn
oh for vanguard mvp control?
rustic gull
yep
fathom wolf
yup...
rustic gull
I will say though we're only doing this because we have no more main fleets to level
like, literally none
stone pawn
fathom wolf
ch 12 grind with no exp for backline means you are getting worse oil/exp ratio than 10h comm if you don't do mvp control
stone pawn
o damn
rustic gull
yeah
fathom wolf
29 days, didn't touch archive
got uvh from random build and z46 from medal, otherwise will need to mlb a few more subs
fathom wolf
@rustic gull d3 this event seems fine
rustic gull
it does indeed
fathom wolf
i started to get a feeling that newbies will do fine even not folloing any guide, as long as they save cubes and get the URs