#it should be 1 0 2 3 0 35 2 90

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

verbal vessel
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Then the 0.35 wouldn't be affecting the first guaranteed smokescreen.

toxic rover
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its guaranteed, why would you want it to be affected

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oh wait the 0.3 is eva rate?

verbal vessel
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It's the buff, yeah.

toxic rover
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oh then ye its fine, thought it was the proc chance

verbal vessel
shy grotto
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this assumes 2s out of 10s in a smoke, are you going to make normal smoke 1s out of 5s?

verbal vessel
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If Belfast smoke is bigger, then ships would spend a little longer proportional time in it?

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So..still 2?

shy grotto
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no belfast is 10s, normal is 5s

verbal vessel
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So bigger and longer?

shy grotto
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idk if it's bigger, ask green name

verbal vessel
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@nyagami

shy grotto
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shouldnt hurt too much to assume they're the same for now

verbal vessel
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But yes - it would be in best faith to implement the proportionality argument and say that regular smokescreens have 1s activity.

shy grotto
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20% in smoke sounds kinda low but whatever

verbal vessel
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Last I polled the community on this (when Smokescreen deliberations were just coming out from me), they felt like 20% was fine.

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I'll ask around again.

shy grotto
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now how does your Harbin work

verbal vessel
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For reference, this will update regular smokescreen's effect from

1.6% to 1.1%

And then Belfast from 0.6% to 1.2%

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Harbin uhh 10s total smokescreen time is assumed, apparently.

shy grotto
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kinda ok i guess

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5 torps * 6s each = 30s, and 1/3 instead of 1/5 insmoke

verbal vessel
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NOW you're doing the Mebot kind of math.

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pog

verbal vessel
shy grotto
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how about another bigger change

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in a 90s battle, the battle doesn't actually start in the first 3 seconds MakinaSmug no damage taken if the boss hasn't spawned yet

verbal vessel
shy grotto
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🚪🏃‍♂️

verbal vessel
toxic rover
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its actually 1.5s hardcoded

verbal vessel
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...so where does the additional 1.5 come from?

shy grotto
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The boss spawns late

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It usually spawns sometime in 1:27 but few players could manipulate the boss to spawn at 1:28

verbal vessel
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Alright. 87.

toxic rover
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good thing no one cares about meta fights

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and also why think so hard between /90 and /87 when the procs are the same

verbal vessel
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Zstigma put me up to it.

It's so that 8s/90s invulnerability becomes 8s/87s invulnerability, for a slightly more accurate figure - considering the first 3s don't consist of any damage taken.

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And other timebased skills.

toxic rover
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accurate in what sense? content that doesnt matter? an arbitrarily selected value vs another arbiturarily selected value? idk what is to be gained from this

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whats the diff between 0-90 vs 3-93, vs 3-90

verbal vessel
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One of the primary assumptions that I work with when deliberating eHP is that allied ships receive a consistent stream of damage for the duration of the battle until death.

That's how I'm able to carry out the average uptime stuffs in good faith.

But if - for the first 3 seconds of a battle, no damage is dealt, then the battle is actually "87" seconds long.

toxic rover
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ye but whys the cut off at 90s?

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but thats on you to refactor whatever skills gets affected by this

verbal vessel
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Arbiter and Abyssal are 90s, that's where the original 90s assumption came in.

verbal vessel
toxic rover
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you chose the fight that you do twice a month over some other value that better represents the rest of the game

verbal vessel
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META showdown is 1:20 , and it's hard to say for World bosses because the determinant of battletime isn't vanguard tankiness, but backline punch in those cases.

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I'd agree with you that it's arbitrary, and honestly this point is a nitpick, but what value for length of battle do you think better represents the rest of the game?

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Plus, this Arbiter/Abyssal content is indeed an endgame where things like eHP deliberations matter anyways. *W14 pending.

toxic rover
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90s is the general cn standard since combat times tend to fall around there +/- 10

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id use 120s due to 3star requirements

shy grotto
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imagine thinking campaign matters

toxic rover
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the game also seems to be trending towards longer battles

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and longer the fights the less skewed towards preloaded ehp

verbal vessel
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Like smokescreen and torps or something? Heh. Preload eHP.

toxic rover
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since most fights are pretty low damage 1st wave

verbal vessel
toxic rover
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they just chose an arbitrary value, no real explaination to it

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pre w14 most fights would end around 90s

verbal vessel
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90s +/- 10s is reasonable, as well. But that's probably because I've already geared eHP towards 90s.

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Then me choosing 87 would be...arbitrary but with 3s startup time taken into account.

toxic rover
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well its just more work for no real gain

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you also have to adjust timers for the offset

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would make more sense if you did /90 and /120

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even /60 for mobbing

verbal vessel
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The eHP mobbing scene is full of healers though, so I don't think it'll be as useful as /90 /120 for boss.

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/120 useful for campaign, prob.

verbal vessel
toxic rover
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healers are just a periodic ehp multiplier, can pretty much be factored out

verbal vessel
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Unless overheal or something, idk. Can happen with Perseus, or with a particularly tanky ship anyways.

toxic rover
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youll also ahve to adjust stuff like trp launch counts cuz shifting 3s back can give it -1

verbal vessel
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I don't think I've done calc that includes a torp launch between 87 and 90s that would be clipped out in these considerations.

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But maybe I did(?)

toxic rover
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well it just sounds to me like work that is potentially breaking for the illusion of "accuracy"

verbal vessel
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@shy grotto what do you think

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I mean, 90s is a nice and round number to end buffs on heheh

toxic rover
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cuz if youre gonna use 90s just cuz arby may as well have your damage sample purely arby as well

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then we can call it the arby ehp list

shy grotto
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that's what it is

verbal vessel
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Stronghold final boss as well as abyssal are also 90s.

shy grotto
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there's no campaign damage spread so a campaign battle length is useless

toxic rover
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there isnt any on arby as well

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its all mixed

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ik mebot randomly picked like 8 bullets from some fights out of like 200 of the same fights

verbal vessel
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I think I chose all the different damage mods possible*

I didn't consider alpha damage, so the "types of bullets" presented are deflated.

toxic rover
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oh bullets refer to armor mods in code

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bullet properties, where as weapon properties contain the damage value

verbal vessel
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If that's the case, then I'm 80% sure I got all the mods per boss.

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lemme grab my codumentation

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omegacursed btw

toxic rover
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iirc theres often extra bullets that dont come from the boss themselves, not sure if arby fights are the same

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An iirc sirens tend to have more unique bullets compared to the rest of the game

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and also how are you doing shelling/torp dr?

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im not seeing damage types on that sheet

verbal vessel
toxic rover
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incorrect, its attack_attribute under weapon_properties

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a bullet can be a torp but itll get reduced by shelling dr if it scales fp

verbal vessel
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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It's time to redatamine.

toxic rover
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they tend to correctly matchup 90% of the time

verbal vessel
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Edge cases a little important, I suppose.

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Plus, this is quite a big error.

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The assumed bullet distributions is a...HUGE...assumption, that they are even across the board.