Oh look a thread
#Kala cl gun
toxic vapor
Anyways your argument that +8 single 150 has a miniscule damage difference is 
when you were arguing earlier that damage differences matter for the ship being buffed in off tank lol
@crimson stratus
crimson stratus
so your proposition is that the difference between +8 and +10 on the single 150 will outweigh the damage buff on the other vanguard?
seems unlikely
spice portal
How do you know a +8 gun will be slow enough for AP? What is the threshold at which the main gun targeting will be highly unlikely to make it too slow?
toxic vapor
No my proposition is that you cant have a coherent argument while saying that differences in your damage don't matter but differences in everyone else's do
crimson stratus
1.25 seconds using the standardised agir gun at 125 with max RLD tech
i didnt do that at all though cia, if you cant follow what I said then that's fine but dont make weird assumptions
spice portal
The main gun doesn't shoot perfectly as soon as it reloads
toxic vapor
Lmao yes you did
crimson stratus
agir gun does it has no volley time
toxic vapor
Thats not what volley time is 
hidden kite
You probably miss the part of the calc where he used uni as a perma reload buffer
hidden kite
Nah I'm making too much money to do that
spice portal
What are you gonna do if your kala is at the top of the screen and the enemy is at the bottom? Your 150 barrage spam has no AP to use
crimson stratus
wouldnt that also mean that another ship also wouldnt be able to fire?
seems moot if you put it like that
spice portal
Yes but we're talking about her CL gun AP consumption ???
crimson stratus
so why are you suddenly talking about being out of range?
spice portal
Because you brought up using +8 gun
crimson stratus
how is that related
toxic vapor
Because it's a case that commonly happens and you miss all your damage
spice portal
How do you know +8 gun is slow enough
nova viper
coz it bottlenecks her regen
stone ridge
agir gun reload timings 
toxic vapor
Thanks sam you're cute
crimson stratus
hmm how did i get 7.55 then
hidden kite
Fyi that doesn't really work with other guns
stone ridge
how so
nova viper
agir gun reload timings <:ShiSleep:771507346069389313>
what tool is this ? looks like bombzen UIs but did it have a calc for vang ?
stone ridge
toxic vapor
Its bombzen's tool with a custom timer
stone ridge
shouldn't reload work the same
spice portal
How do you know a +8 gun will be slow enough for AP? What is the threshold at wh...
You're just ignoring reality. Using perfect aegir gun uptime.
hidden kite
Abs
stone ridge
isn't abs only for the start of the battle, and don't vangs have the same one
or am i tripping
stone ridge
oh rip
kind rose
spice portal
So it's even worse now
toxic vapor
That just makes it slower and the ap problem even worse
LOL
Not to mention the damage difference between 150 and a real cl gun in the first place
crimson stratus
how much is that exactly
or not exactly, ballpark would be better than the answers Ive had so far
hidden kite
Like 5x
crimson stratus
5x doesnt mean anything cause it's relative to what the 150 does
toxic vapor
What
lone dove
spice portal
Riceist already said something like 15 x 6 x 6 x .45
crimson stratus
need to put in context of flat damage numbers so it can be measured against barrage and the buff to the other vanguard
hidden kite
This is to pepega for me I'm going back to work
crimson stratus
sure 
spice portal
Vs the extra like 100 you get from barrage with 150
crimson stratus
and the uptime of the buff
toxic vapor
The barrage is what, 600 1/1/1 with an awful hit rate
spice portal
And don't forget about 20 fp
crimson stratus
how much is 20 fp
lone dove
usa vs iran waiting room?
kindred flume
why cant people just settle on what's best is entirely based on what you're buffing and just using whatever if that isnt the case
crimson stratus
we should probably have some sort of standard ship we use as the buff target
so we have a point of reference
stone ridge
0.3 for ca
can't i just add .2 reload to the gun's base reload then or does it not work that way
toxic vapor
I dont think that is the case though
kindred flume
there's no standard middle ship people use though
crimson stratus
its not the middle ship, does that make a difference?
lofty quarry
can't i just add .2 reload to the gun's base reload then or does it not work tha...
U would need to add it to the calced value
toxic vapor
The buff doesnt matter nearly as much as the buff's uptime
kind rose
Ok sure let's just go with flat numbers, not calculating FP or damage modifiers
Seattle gun would have 90 damage
Single 150 would have 21 damage
A 8% damage buff would give seattle gun 97.2 damage and single 150 22.68 damage
The buff does jack shit for single 150 while it gives a slight buff to Seattle gun which is already better than single 150 in the first place
spice portal
20 fp is 5% on the entirety of Kala's damage. Main gun, barrage, CL gun
kindred flume
oh is it the side ship? still. there's no "standard". every ship is different. has different aoa's and timings. and if you're using meta ships you wouldnt use kala in the first place
stone ridge
U would need to add it to the calced value
whats the value for cl guns
spice portal
Ok sure let's just go with flat numbers, not calculating FP or damage modifiers
...
Why does 8% on kala matter?
lofty quarry
whats the value for cl guns
you are the wiki guy 0.28s was it?
crimson stratus
Ok sure let's just go with flat numbers, not calculating FP or damage modifiers
...
thats not how the skill works
toxic vapor
Why does 8% on drake matter 
lofty quarry
Or 0.3s
kindred flume
Drake? You mean shitty Plymouth? 
crimson stratus
Why does 8% on drake matter <:BuckyPride:666111441786372158>
should we use drake as the standard?
toxic vapor
It doesnt matter its always an 8% buff
stone ridge
~~you are the wiki guy~~ 0.28s was it?
.28 yea
toxic vapor
The ship you choose literally does not matter
crimson stratus
value does scale if the base damage it's boosting is higher though
nova viper
it does
crimson stratus
since you're not doing % damage to enemies you do flat damage
spice portal
assuming the off tank ship deals continuous damage, how much do you need to discount the 8% by? Due to the difference in buff uptime. Is that worth losing a bunch of Kala's CL damage and then losing 5% of Kala's total damage from firepower?
crimson stratus
thats the question that ive been asking
toxic vapor
If you choose london its an 8% to london, if you choose drake its an 8% to drake, you end up with the same boost regardless
The individual number from that boost doesnt matter
crimson stratus
is 20 fp really 5% damage? That's a lot
nova viper
8% on london might not be worth losing kala's cl dmg but 8% on drk might
its his whole argument
spice portal
It's not 8% though
More like 2 to 3%
nova viper
well yh x%
crimson stratus
probably more in the region of 3-4% when you're factoring in barrage damage as well
nova viper
this assumes she shoots her gun continously ig
spice portal
Factoring in what barrage damage
toxic vapor
The increased barrage procs from using 150
crimson stratus
the damage you gain from doing more barrages
toxic vapor
Which has been his cope from the start
spice portal
Yeah but using a real CL gun does more than those extra barraged
crimson stratus
yeah but does it outweigh that plus the uptime on the buff?
toxic vapor
Yes
kind rose
Yes
crimson stratus
I mean do you have any kind of numbers?
nova viper
do you have them tho ?
spice portal
Yes, the buff uptime is like 3% to the offtank. While Kala loses 5% due to firepower and some more due to CL gun - barrage
crimson stratus
is 20 fp 5% damage, that sounds really high
spice portal
And CN paper has Kala at about 600 DPS and drake like 900 or 1000, idk
slim python
912
spice portal
282 base plus 45 main plus 25 cl
Vs
282 + 45 + 45
crimson stratus
its 5% more firepower but does that translate into 5% more damage?
crimson stratus
so using those numbers it puts kala with +30 dps
nova viper
4.4% dmg at what formation ?
crimson stratus
circle?
nova viper
ig
spice portal
I don't care about formation because opsi
Maybe you could use kala in difficult campaign chapters
crimson stratus
using sams numbers earlier agir shoots 7.88sec
crimson stratus
stuck as in, moved too far away?
nova viper
ye the buff uptime is rly idealistic
spice portal
CAs and CBs often don't shoot as soon as they reload
What I started my journey into this thread with
crimson stratus
ok well that would affect a slower CL gun more than a faster one, since if you miss the window by being too early or too late you have to wait longer to proc as the gun reloads
spice portal
nova viper
I pray for u stigma 
crimson stratus
i mean you're proposing the situation where there is AP starvation due to range issues and the quirks of the guns not shooting exactly as they reload
spice portal
It is not unlikely for 150 to miss one barrage in the whole battle.
It is extremely rare for 152 to miss any barrages
nova viper
thats why its idealistic
crimson stratus
but you're far more likely to lose a barrage depending on fight length with a slower gun
nova viper
ure assuming she shoots the cb guns off cd
stone ridge
how long is the start of battle delay for vanguard ships
i know it doesn't matter but i just want realistic timings when im doing calcs
spice portal
About 3, whenever they get an enemy to shoot at
stone ridge
spice portal
The delay doesn't matter, just shift everything to zero
Anyways the battle would have to be very long for 150 to miss a barrage after all
nova viper
can't it miss coz angles 
the preloads give a very large buffer