pvp

[lime rivet]

Yeah sure. I'm 0/10

[trail temple]

Thank you very much!

[lime rivet]

[dull hollow]

manjuuham actually managed to 1v3 a burning backline

[light crystal]

||I can see your background ||

[spark locust]

ACC?

I usually use the bofors STAAG

[candid sluice]

+hit aa gun yes staag and hazemeyer

[light crystal]

DD buffs. Well, only 2 DD's that see use in PvP are Suzu and YKKZ, and the usual torp memers

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/745143627608752179/887269922009387019/unknown.png

[thin cosmos]

who knows narrower HMS 5torps can be even 1torp size)

[candid sluice]

yooo narrower torps spread thats big

[spark locust]

shima might be good when she gets released... we'll see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb9Ebe_rA8M

PVP mains grinding all their shit to new lvl. 125 cap in 2 days

[north vine]

assuming pvp mains dont have 3m exp on their main pvp lineup

[worldly cape]

There's no 125 this patch tho

But those torpedo buffs man... can't they buff Italians anymore?

[candid sluice]

buff them by curving torps away from backline

[thin cosmos]

I strongly worry about HMS torp now, if they target VG,, well, it's trash due to ancher

[worldly cape]

More like buffing them by curving torps to vanguard

[candid sluice]

anchovy

[thin cosmos]

I would consider remove VV if that happen

also duca

[worldly cape]

I guess Juneau moves to off tank spot and Anchorage goes to main tank?

[thin cosmos]

I think main tank position still ok

just switching manjuu

but all should be tested after test and sadly as always Korea alone delayed for patch

[candid sluice]

offtank jun dies after every single other ship in your fleet dies

[tall nimbus]

so am i the only one who absolutely hates using ancho on torpmemes because she's sucking them instead of actually countering?

[thin cosmos]

I can't get what you are saying

absorbing torp=counter, isn't it?

[tall nimbus]

yeah and she dies like a bitch

[thin cosmos]

with smoke+2second invincible she is absolutly tanky

[tall nimbus]

not on my anchorage

waste of dev 30 tbh

[candid sluice]

are u lead tanking her

[tall nimbus]

backmost

it's always duca killing her

[thin cosmos]

check gear

[tall nimbus]

+13 beaver +13 manjuu

what else u want

[candid sluice]

ancho overhyped

[covert swallow]

mine lives just fine

[tall nimbus]

well if it isn't torpmemes she's fine

[thin cosmos]

my question would rather this

so if you think so who is more tanker than her?

[tall nimbus]

[candid sluice]

agir

[tall nimbus]

i just counter it with more offense

[tall nimbus]

exactly why i use her

[candid sluice]

your agir actually really beefy

did few test runs she was last ship alive a few times

[tall nimbus]

[thin cosmos]

might due to positon

[candid sluice]

then again im using crashmemes which might explain it

[thin cosmos]

there problem would rather speed

basically same for all CA

[tall nimbus]

tried both fastest speed and slightly slower to make use of smoke

[stable dawn]

[tall nimbus]

torpmeme duca's 2nd torps firing when ancho defenses are down is basically what i think why she dies fast

damn sea mines

[thin cosmos]

basically if you hitted by full hit, no ship can survive

[crude jetty]

wich 128 do you mean?

[dull hollow]

[candid sluice]

twin128 gear lab ironblood dd gun

[crude jetty]

thx!

[bronze hedge]

Which bb gun you guys use ? Is it rainbow? Is there other option

[north vine]

all rainbow yep

mk7 vv, 457 NJ the usual jazz

[elder crane]

btw

[elder crane]

on top of these buffs

auto mode also gets torp aiming and

depending on the torpedo mount equipment, special effects such as [Enhanced Torpedo Searching Range] and [Enhanced Torpedo Barrage Angle] will be granted

inb4 sakura DD get narrower angle and quint 610s get narrower angle

but yeah with narrower angle effects even quad 610s might be worth revisiting over HMS torps, I always considered those possibly a bit too narrow spread esp for offense considering how much they seem to overkill if you run full torpteam

[dull hollow]

wait the torps no longer parallel

but they will point?

[elder crane]

auto mode will aim torps at enemies yep

presumably that affects PvP too

[frosty topaz]

what kind of fleets dont need beaver tag

[candid sluice]

wont that mean the torps swerve towards vg

lowering chances it hits backline

[dull hollow]

they probably dont wanna promote that kind of gangplank gacha gameplay

[jaunty finch]

is it safe to be 5/10 exercises going into maintenance? lol

[light crystal]

It's a chunky update, in terms of what we're getting

Sandbag at your discretion

[jaunty finch]

the reset should be 4hrs after maint ends right

seems.. pretty safe?

[candid sluice]

be part of big meat club and 5/10

[light crystal]

🤏

[odd glen]

I wouldn't worry about it, the only time it was ever an issue was during the first run of the Microlayer Medley event, because it was in early 2020, during the time most countries had gone into a lockdown, servers couldn't handle the amount of players trying to log in immediately after maintenance ended, so it was extended beyond the reset. Never had another issue like that before or since though

[elder crane]

err

we had past 12 h extended maint twice before that

and one time close recently

happens every time new mechanics added

has never been a single time without ext main when new game mechanics for EN, pretty sure

[jaunty finch]

GG meanwhile genshin pushing out inazuma in 5hrs

too bad that game is mostly 💩

[odd glen]

I'm on the Washington server and been playing since early 2019 so I can only speak for my time on that server since, sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but I was stating that it was the only time maintenance has extended beyond a pvp reset, all the other maintenance extensions were only around an hour or two

or at least ended well before a pvp reset anyway

[jaunty finch]

[light crystal]

Yup, looks like you need to put 76mm on Shima

@elder crane

[elder crane]

oh sheeeit
all the viable IJN torpDD are getting torp angle reduction it seems

wtf

the quint 610s have nerfed dmg?

🚮

is shima double preload? seems interesting

[worldly cape]

Send the spreadsheet

[elder crane]

note that flood iirc reduces movement speed so she actually has move speed debuff, I think

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vdSdvUILpm8L1OSFnqRLnJblALT3w02VY45FRspGzu8/htmlview?pru=AAABfBDYJgw*AH96TcGDDk0vhMhAJEXWRw#

[worldly cape]

Thanks

[elder crane]

Katsuragi looks like skillset for last meta lol

[oblique silo]

They did?

[light crystal]

Increasing self torp dmg by 12% is nice

On top of having 600+ base Torp (636~ at 200 Aff)

[elder crane]

dammit she's actually really strong torper then with sky high torp stat, enhanced effs, double preload, and reduced torp angle

I don't want a torp metaaaaa

[light crystal]

Use Mafia

[candid sluice]

holy fuck shima double preload

[light crystal]

DPS should be higher than Ayanami even when skill procs with that alone tbh

[worldly cape]

So I guess Shima will take over Duca with Noshiro and Jintsuu

[candid sluice]

vg speed buff tho

[light crystal]

Also, that AoA barrage hits HARD

[elder crane]

naw you run duca 100%

don't forget she also has the antitorp kit

[worldly cape]

Then who gets benched for torp autism?

[jaunty finch]

so i did good building anchorage?

[elder crane]

defense imo just run like Duca Jint Shima for max cancer
probably Naganami out since Jint buffs much harder for Shima/Duca

[worldly cape]

Will depend on how much DMG Anchorage takes on shield collapse

Because from what I know there's no shield gating mechanics for that kind of skills

[elder crane]

Ancho has immunity on shield pop so she's fine, but her smoke isn't going to shield the other vanguards much vs vanguard torps

vanguard hitrate is too high for that

[light crystal]

MP has torp shields

[elder crane]

also duca might screw her up regardless since delayed torp hit

[worldly cape]

So bulge mandatory now?

[elder crane]

if as before bulge is uselss unless you stack it hard

[karmic forum]

Its probably better to run VV + stack as much torp dmg reduc as possible

[elder crane]

is too much dmg if torps hit

[candid sluice]

torp bulge new meta

[karmic forum]

So VV + Noshi + Duca + bulge

[candid sluice]

vitt wnt bulge

[light crystal]

MP, Ancho lead, Duca middle, and Noshiro last

[elder crane]

I might just return to percy aql for preload nuking

[light crystal]

MP with shields

[elder crane]

murder torpvg in return

[karmic forum]

I'm going to see if juneau can survive somewhat

With that setup

[worldly cape]

Will this patch finally send Juneau to the meta bench? Let's find out in 48 hours

[karmic forum]

Also we'll have to see how the new torp changes affects PvP

Maybe theres less backline focus

[elder crane]

ye opening torps might nuke main much lesss

[karmic forum]

Which is actually very good for offense

[elder crane]

since they'll aim at VG likely

[worldly cape]

Or if VG aligns in the wrong angle and dodges, main would take them

[elder crane]

will be super important though that you don't lose vanguard fight vs torpteam

cause HMS torps aimed at main fleet unit = they explode

[candid sluice]

wait did quint610s get nerfed from leak

[elder crane]

rn is guaranteed so more angle can only be worse, probably, also vanguard will soak torps more which they can kinda do, better than main at least

[worldly cape]

It would also require enough luck in terms of which direction VG goes after a potential dodge

[elder crane]

ye quint 610s have -20 base dmg it seems, although I wonder if devs just hid a coeff in like they sometimes do....

[worldly cape]

Because it's most than likely they dodge at first, but then go at them face on

[elder crane]

well again, vg is more capable of soaking torps

and w blacktorp HMS torps rn if they miss vanguard entirely then 100% to nuke main

[worldly cape]

Let's hope I don't have to "spark" Shimakaze, so I have enough coins to build those torps

[elder crane]

aimed torps means they almost certainly mag onto vanguard instead, which already cuts down hitrate, and probably skews angle off to side usually

[worldly cape]

Then black torp to the stash?

[light crystal]

So use Teatorps from now on?

[elder crane]

you'll still blacktorp since first salvo aims at vanguard probably so you'll want the mag effect

[light crystal]

🤔

[elder crane]

vs vanguard idk but if torps aim, teatorp aiming at main fleet unit =
so winning vanguard trade with HMS torps would be massive

it's possible the 610s are better though if you don't count on it aiming at main, since a wider spread does make them more reliable at hitting vg overall

we'll have to see the gear effects

afaik no datamine on that yet?

[worldly cape]

Oh yeah, the torp changes might also mean Duca with HMS will also work properly on PvE

[candid sluice]

not yet torp changes

[crude mortar]

yep ijn scum is back

[candid sluice]

here we go again

[worldly cape]

Yes and no, remember NJ will still be overly used

[candid sluice]

ppl with no blacktorp suffer

me

[worldly cape]

You won't need 3 black torps tho

Just 2 as you'll setup Anchorage for tanking most of the time

[elder crane]

if you run stall team you only really need one probably

if even that still

[candid sluice]

noshiro gonna make a return u think?

[worldly cape]

Noshiro might go up from UU to OU I think

[elder crane]

Noshiro duca VV torpbulge does stack up -78% torp DR

which maybe helps

[worldly cape]

Bulge manjuu or pearl manjuu on Anchorage?

[elder crane]

you might not really need manjuu on Ancho

is hard to say how that will move around

[worldly cape]

I would not slot manjuu on NJ tbh

I prefer to have the 457 firing earlier plus the badge as Aquila is running medal as it has better stats then catapult

[elder crane]

NJ currently is HPFCR Manjuu

[worldly cape]

(I'm rotating flagship between VV and Aquila depending on what I face)

[elder crane]

the thing about manjuu on ancho is that if she outlasts their vanguard anyways, manjuu doesn't help all that much since she's just a damage sponge
we'll see if she needs the safety net

[worldly cape]

Specially as the alpha on Shima on paper might seem high, but on practice is another story

[elder crane]

more dmg shifting to other ships does mean manjuu is less valuable on NJ though ofc

[karmic forum]

Too many variables to consider rn

But in order of investigation:

• Torp mechanics change + DD reduced torp spread
• Shimakaze torpmemes comps
• poi refit and 125

[candid sluice]

poi and 125 arent coming this patch tho

[karmic forum]

Yeah but they're coming soon enough that the meta won't have been settled probably

All I can hope for is that there's some solution to the overwhelming incoming problem of torpmemes between torp mechanic changes, anchor, mafia, and torp bulges

[worldly cape]

And I also hope with 125 we get level scaling or else we'll face loads of complaints of those who prioritize their 125 for PvE ships vs those who prioritized PvP ships ||because from what I know the uncap items are time gated but worse than cog chips||

[candid sluice]

dont forget to put your pvp ships in opsi

[light crystal]

Should start banking XP on ur PvP ship now rather than cri about it later imo

Priority is DMG dealers, like Backliners first

Then u work on VG

[candid sluice]

thats why i said put em in opsi

[elder crane]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/367307557796053002/887935060752359474/E_XsrY6VEAEL5F-.png?width=638&height=582

waiting on tl ofc

[candid sluice]

what the words mean

[leaden sky]

Means the torp spread becomes narrower 🙂

[elder crane]

who knoooows

I can't read moonrunes

[leaden sky]

Yea i wished i could read jp

[elder crane]

visuals do confirm a few things though, limited targeting angle I think and also auto mode just literally aims torps at ships
note I think it means it doesn't have closest priority due to second screenshot

since it's fired at top ship and not middle

[light crystal]

So basically it's like BB's targeting stuff in auto, except torp salvos can now do that instead as well

[elder crane]

I think based off range expected it won't aim at main fleet regardless
if defense does aim though it'll be

imagine aimed HMS torps at main

[leaden sky]

🎆

[dull hollow]

shimakaze has bicc barrage

but idk if it's neouff

[light crystal]

it's neouff

[ashen lion]

30 minute

[silent yew]

does helena have an immoratality skill ? or is there an immoratality equipment?

[candid sluice]

repair manjuu aux

[slender tartan]

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/Eagle_Union_Elite_Damage_Control

[silent yew]

where do we get it from ? 👀

[slender tartan]

collection reward. yorktown class 3rd rank

[silent yew]

aight.

using Helena JDA and sanrui

best give it to helena?

[slender tartan]

helena or juneau imo. depending which one you use. unless you use both. then i guess it would depend of how fast can the opponent kill your juneau each battle.

[silent yew]

helena only rn. still lvling juneau

[crude mortar]

dont worry

none of that matter anymore

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/516951413411020819/887997671577628682/shimameme2.png

[elder crane]

btw seems like shit angles and shit targeting range on most torps means that barely affects much for PvP

[crude mortar]

what about magnet one

or black torp with ijn torp

[elder crane]

esp HMS torps awful at targeting
mags or 610s not much better

magtorp only changes ammo

not targeting

[crude mortar]

what new torp stat

[elder crane]

HMS is 35 targeting range with 70 targeting angle
so like almost CA angle and literally AA range targeting
new torp shares same targeting as 610s with longer 45 range (still crap) but still shitty 70 angle iirc

mags are 37 range 80 angle or something iirc?
USN 533s have 40 range 115 angle iirc

btw -1/3 spread on IJN DD makes fan torps quite a bit more dense
still a bit ehh on that though, at least for current teams

[thin cosmos]

did you tested new torp system?

[elder crane]

so far seems like fairly minimal effects overall for current teams since torps don't target much more often than they do in PvP and 1/3 reduced spread doesn't really affect HMS torps much

[thin cosmos]

how minimal effects, I can't understand.

let me check some things

first if they have 35 targeting range, they just hold torp and not fire if no enemy in range, like submarines or just fire as before?

[candid sluice]

what about teatorps with blacktorp

i noticed it kinda curved towards enemy vg a bit

[thin cosmos]

also it means you would just remove backline if you win VG fight with torp ship

so I can't understand how can it be minimal effects

[karmic forum]

If you use teatorps, they don't even target VG half the time

If you use other torps, even if they do target VG it's just an firing angle change

The torps aren't going to suddenly reduce in spread (unless you're using a DD with the torp spread down)

I need to test more but so far tea torps + black aux feels the same as it was before

[thin cosmos]

why hms only has lower targeting rate?

[sour oasis]

[flint sun]

So I see a lot of the aquila nj pvp teams with drake/azuma/ykk instead of duca and juneau.. what y'all think about that?

I currently use this one but instead of ykk I use seattle, which would be better?

[sand cape]

seattle > yuki

although ideally it would be anchorage over seattle as well

[flint sun]

(I'm getting her after azuma)

any other thoughts n' stuff?

[thin cosmos]

I don't think seatle is better than yuki

[flint sun]

Why do I always see drake

[thin cosmos]

I have no idea about drake. she is definitly worse than juneau

[flint sun]

I have noshiro as well

juneau, Luigi di Savoia Duca Degli Abruzzi and lv 118 noshiro / lv 107 seattle

[light crystal]

To play YKKZ, u must use Ancho as well

[dull hollow]

wao

azumama fate

is kinda noticeable

she mills around a lot longer now

also the ap gun is funny

[candid sluice]

yuki has her uses over seattle cant just immediately replace

[candid sluice]

drake is hot garbage dont use her

ppl probs using her cus they think rainbow = good

[light crystal]

🤔

[oblique silo]

Tf….

[dull hollow]

shimakaze ugliesst UR so far so ppl might mistake her for an R like me

the reverse-reverse psychology play

[light crystal]

The fuck, she's good looking

They did retouch her here and there from base CW art tho, which is nice

[worldly cape]

JP is getting a patch where VG torps sometimes were aimed to the wrong side in PvP

[oblique silo]

Why?

I love blowing myself up with my own torps

[candid sluice]

I too enjoy friendly fire

[calm mica]

Imagine if you torp meme your own fleet along with the enemy and you lost an exercise in 5 seconds

[trail temple]

I enjoy blowing myself up too, just not with torps

[dull hollow]

lmao

i was

doing my pvps

going against 16k comps

with NJ

winning them all

i had no gun equipped on my NJ

sasuga

[spark flax]

Who has the best anti-torp skill set? Pasta fleet? I also keep hearing about Anchorage but haven't got her yet.

[light crystal]

Yes Pasta.

[light crystal]

Duca/VV. Also Noshiro and Marco Polo. And ofc, Anchorage immune to all preloaded torps except Duca's landmine slowpedos

[jaunty bear]

akagi , kaga , nagato , noshiro , jintsuu, helena , gonna work ?

[elder crane]

Not really, Helena doesn't have right buff time for foxes, overall main fleet is weak compared to current options, and Noshiro/Jint are more torpedo buffers rather than torpedo damage carries - you'll want something that can actually hit hard with her torps like Shima, Duca, Naganami etc.

[spark flax]

Kk, sounds like anchorage is my girl, but probably gonna have pasta ready before her..

[slender tartan]

yo can somebody explain to me if position or gear matter to BB's targeting? i mean like the actual target that they aim. the amount of times that i have to reset the last couple of days because my FDG chooses to shoot all 3 of her 457mm salvos to a god damn yuki while multiple enemy backline ships are 1 hp. usually even mafia takes 5 resets tops with IB cuz my VG suck (double roon, no agir- mainz-heinrich) assuming that FDG actually shoots the backline. like is it RNG and im just that unlucky that she always does that or i can affect it somehow?

[light crystal]

Well, FDG has accuracy issues, cuz no Luck.

[slender tartan]

wait im confused. does luck effect where she is actualy aiming aka: aiming VG or MAIN?

[candid sluice]

luck has nothing to do with it

bb targeting is pretty stupid

[slender tartan]

so the fact that she does shit like shooting 3 times in a fight and all 3 of her salvos are aimed at the full hp yuki instead of hitting the god damn 1 hp NJ or aquila. its just my rng.if thats the case imma probably gonna have to switch teams. cuz either IB is cursed or im cursed. this shit is insane

[oblique silo]

That’s why I use a mafia fleet to wipe out VG before backline fires

[slender tartan]

yeah my VG sucks. its roon-leipzi-roon μ. if i had agir at 25 at least and maxed out mainz i could go mainz-leipzig-agir. now the only thing they good at is killing juneau. but at the cost of dying alongside her leaving MAIN to do the rest. which usually means having to deal with an annoying mosquito loli yelling "im the greatest" being at their face 24/7 unless bisko makes her shut it with a lucky shot early on. and a pissed off bunny girl.

[untold crater]

KMS fleet?

[slender tartan]

[light crystal]

It does

It affects hit rate

25 Luck on FDG alone will be huge, the Skill upgrades aside.

[covert swallow]

He's talking about who it decides to shoot

[light crystal]

Which doesn't mean much if you miss because of poor hit rate

Wut I will say, is that when FDG is on Defense, it doesn't have issues pounding the opposite side's backline (You on Attack), but you doing the same is hard

[elder crane]

is just confirmation bias since you expect high WR on offense

[slender tartan]

i dont face problems with her hitting an enemy (dealing damage to them instead of being registered as a miss). i face problems on who she is deciding to shoot. like im on attack and she always decides to shoot VG instead of MAIN. when she does shoot main it usually is registered as a hit cuz i have her with HPFCR and i even give her WS if i see her strikes are registered as miss. what im trying to understand is if the target that she decides to shoot at was affected by something or its just rng. and after all of this from what i can understand is that the target that she is aiming at is rng but the salvo if it lands, if its registered as a hit or a miss its affected by my hit and my luck. so yeah. i think my FDG just hates me and always shoot 3 times VG. anyway ty ppl.

[elder crane]

you rage at when your FdG miss targeting x3 but when they do it it's just expected

is like the old Nagato barrage thing where your Nagato always no barrage and theirs always barrage x3
when they no barrage it's 4% of that 84% time you win so unremarkable, when you no barrage it's 1/4 of your losses

[slender tartan]

pls dont give me nagato PTSD. like if my rng with FDG's salvos aiming at the VG is bad. nagato. nagato was just. different.

[elder crane]

seee~
is just your memory being a salty boi

but ye this is why BB shelling meta sux

more RNG

bring back CV meta pls

[slender tartan]

i mean. unless we get to control our ships in exercises. i dont think its gonna get that better. even if we get rid of BB's salvo cuz CV's are back. still so many random shit going on.

[elder crane]

naw Namaryuu/Nanoryuu was 85-90% WR in mirror ez, and so was AKaga meta back when (maybe 90+% even)

though tbf it's not as bad rn as WaSDE meta which was like 70% WR or even lower at times aaaaaa

now that's PTSD

I guess technically torpteam meta was maybe worse for the moment that existed although it never became that popular before it already started falling off

[slender tartan]

i dont think i played when that was a thing. i started during the nagato-amagi-hiryuu meta. and i still get vietnam flashbacks. trying to beat that shit. with bisko-tirpitz-graf. prinz eugen-nimi-z1.

[elder crane]

ye that's cause you were using a garbage team

I did say namaryuu mirror

KMS back then was extra crap

[slender tartan]

back in the day they where the best i had. now they nothing. even nagato-shinano-hiryuu is not a problem anymore (unless immortal birb juneau, then we got a problem).

mafia can be from really easy to annoying. usually depending on VG cuz MAIN is almost always the same unless VV replaced by FDG or warspite or Richelieu.

when we got a 6v6 at least and not a 1v11. and the 1 on my side is not FDG its actually graf. cuz she is the only one who actually works all the time. unfortunately her lifespan is 20 secs. bunny seems to have a thing for her

[light crystal]

It's just, when I see her what she does to my backline, I expect her to do the same to theirs

But when she doesn't, I feel dissapointed

FDG-F5, DOKKOOOO

[elder crane]

I mean duh there's pretty much no properly geared Nanoryuu anymore since anyone who would woudn't run the team

even experimental crap w like 60-70% WR vs proper nanoryuus back when went 100% vs shitty gearing

is why testing stuff is so annoying, cause you have to make sure you're facing enough ppl that you can be sure you tested vs someone gearing well (or find known names ofc)

[slender tartan]

personally if she does it once im cool. if she does it 10 times. im going ape shit neanderthal. but i was legit curious to find out if i can affect her choice on who to shoot. now i think im covered.

[elder crane]

well if same number of main/vanguard then is 1/8 to miss all three so RIP
if you count MISS too then even higher
also if they have a stealthed CV so 3 vanguard/2 main then 1/5 or higher to do no dmg to main in a salvo

[slender tartan]

i only count where she is deciding to shoot. usually im cool with her missing. and by that i mean. sometimes it happens. granted rarely cuz i always give her hit stats unless facing proper nanoryuu. the only times i lose my shit to miss is if she deciced to shoot like NJ and all 6 of her shots are a miss with like a HPFCR and WS.

that actually happened to me like 2 days ago. my FDG with WS-HPFCR (dont ask why WS,things happened) shoots enemy NJ and ALL 3 of her salvos are aimed at NJ and ALL 6 of her rounds are registered as a MISS.

after that i just closed the game. left that 1 exercise. returned a few hours later on the next 5 and finished the job then.

[elder crane]

WS doesn't do anything for FdG though?

only team effect is targeing priority for HMS BB/C only

also FdG 0 luck low base hit means she has like barely 70% hitrate vs ruddered main even with double +hit aux yeah

literally under 50% vs most vanguards

[slender tartan]

she was missing a lot during that fight and it was a weird one with like helena with bird and juneau-duca. like i thought i try it for the extra HIT cuz it was one of "those" fights. it was more so in desperation. like kill aquilla as fast as possible before juneau proc and cripple VV or NJ.

[light crystal]

Have u made the math for a 25 Luck FDG?

[elder crane]

+2.5% hitrate

is literally just 10 luck = 1%

[light crystal]

So, from 70% in ur example, to about 73%?

I thought the gain would be 5%+ instead

🤔

[elder crane]

ye BB hitrate just in general is not all that amazing
even WSKai with extra base hit and high luck with max hit aux is under 85% vs most ruddered main iirc

[light crystal]

There's a ceiling to hit rate right? 90%?

[slender tartan]

what about luck to crit ration? 1luck=1crit. or im trippin?

[elder crane]

luck barely affects CR, is like 50 luck = 1% iirc?

[elder crane]

no goes right up to 100%
minimum of 10% though

[light crystal]

Ok 🤔

[elder crane]

ignoring perfect evasion skills ofc

[light crystal]

But as u said, even WK can't crack 90% huh

[elder crane]

ye player ships just have much higher evasion than PvE enemies

[light crystal]

At some point, I was under the impression u could, cuz of high Luck + being ablt to hit almost 200 Hit lol

[elder crane]

even taihou is just 75 eva 25 luck which is lower than a ruddered main

even opsi barely breaks 100 eva at most

meanwhile standard cruiser is like 150+ evasion

[light crystal]

The amounts of times I thought WK would never miss to see both 10s barrage shells miss the ttarget, even though she was 120/200 with max hit stuff

It hurt my soul

[elder crane]

ye it's that stupid 3-4% to miss both

[light crystal]

But, in theory, he Hit rate would probably be 100%, if she's lv 125, and she's hitting lv 120 ships

@elder crane R u banking XP on ur 120's yet? Or slacc'ing?

[elder crane]

5 levels is like 1% hitrate though pretty sure?

0.5% from lv advantage + more hit stat

[light crystal]

Really? I thought the curve would get pretty crazy at those levels

[elder crane]

depends on how much extra hit I guess

but on lv advantage it's just 1 level = 1 luck

[light crystal]

So assuming the current formulas don't change, lv 120 ships going against 125's won't be the end of the world, then?

[elder crane]

weeeeell it kinda will be

[light crystal]

[elder crane]

cause
10% extra dmg dealt
10% less dmg taken
0.5% hitrate/evarate
on top of stat diff

which if follows post-100 scaling so far will basically be overall as strong as offense advantage

as I mentioned before rule of thumb is basically 5 levels = offense advantage 10 levels = hopeless

[slender tartan]

btw is there a way to see the HIT stat in-game ?(ignore gear she PVE mode RN)

[elder crane]

in their infinite wisdom of "hating telling players anything (slowly getting better over time)", devs say no

the only way to check hit ingame is if there's a retrofit node you haven't taken that gives +hit

[light crystal]

Just look up the Wiki, and multiply what's there by 3%/6% if Oathed

Maybe one day they will tell us ship Hit and Speed stats

[elder crane]

technically it's less cause it's 106% to 109/112% and also doesn't affect stats from retrofit but close enough

[light crystal]

@elder crane So bottom line, in order to try hard properly and be ahead of everyone else, make sure to have 3m banked on ur PvP ships then

[elder crane]

also rounding means you can still be off by 1 regardless

[light crystal]

I always just multiply the stats shown in the wiki by 1.06, and it's close of what I expected. Sometimes off by a point or two, but close enough, yeh

[slender tartan]

wait hit goes . base+oath and then i add gear. or base+gear and then i add oath?

[elder crane]

oath only affects base yes

skills affect all

[slender tartan]

she got like 127.8? at maxed oath with staag and HPFCR. 145.8 if i also add WS. assuming that i did the math correctly.

[candid sluice]

Is 3M exp gonna be enough to jump straight to lvl125 after awakening

[crude mortar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/823622902376955915/847783707497463808/EssexMirage.gif

[elder crane]

who knoooooooooooows

[worldly cape]

Worst case scenario: They wipe out all of our level 120 EXP stockpiles

[light crystal]

Has anyone come up with projected graph based on current data to predict it tho?

Looking at it right now, u need about 1.3m XP from 115-120

So I suspected from 120-125 it would be at least around double that. But 3m would cover it, if barely

But that's just me going by the current logic, I haven't looked at hard numbers yet

[elder crane]

if it keeps post-100 scaling then would be ~2 mil I think?

but I expect it not to

[safe zodiac]

what auxes are best for aquila veneto nj backline?

[elder crane]

Current rec is usually at least one +eva aux on AQL and VV (rudder/badge,WNT or SG), and Manjuu+HPFCR on NJ (HPFCR not as needed if you don't have a 457 on her, can pick one option from VV selection)

options for AQL is aviation fuel, rudder, WNT, beacon usually
for VV HPFCR, rudder, WNT, SG

[safe zodiac]

ty ty

[elder crane]

if you don't want manjuu on NJ then gear her like you would VV

[light crystal]

Manjuu on NJ is a meme

Why are you doing Famine's work of spreading misinformation

[candid sluice]

Blue a manju nj user

[light crystal]

He's always been lol

[elder crane]

Aoste just in denial that it's good

[light crystal]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/466250908682944522/744316263215661126/BouncyLaugh.gif

I mean, if u personally like it, it's fine, but trying to spread the word about its effectiveness is another matter

[oblique silo]

Manjuu NJ users might have a point if you couldn’t restart battles

[north vine]

they just compensating on their incapability to reset before your last ship with 1% hp die

[knotty cave]

I just got the manjuu aux, so who would be best to put it on out of Seattle/Anchor/NJ?

Anchor with it seems like she'd be really annoying, but Seattle's doing more damage

[light crystal]

I'd recommend Seattle if ur using Seattle, on Ancho if ur using her instead. NJ is also a choice, but it's not the best on Attack, just an RNG thing to have for Defense for the most part.

[calm mica]

Manjuu NJ can win 1v5

[calm mica]

I mainly keep it on because it makes it much less stressful when it's backline vs backline. Especially when you're unoathed going against everyone that runs 200 affection to tryhard

[thin cosmos]

manjuu nj has some benefit for sure but I think better put at VG increase stability against some unexpected teams like torpmeme, CV combo, etc

ofcourse you don't have to care them when you attack but defense fleet better with manjuu ancher in my opinion(center ancher)

[calm mica]

Maybe, but optimizing defense seems like a fools errand with more than a 20% damage disadvantage

[thin cosmos]

well there are so many foors so really well organized teams can cover that 20%disadvantage even though it's huge

also oath +13 gear bring stats gap even in case well equipped not mentioning not proper team like kms

[calm mica]

Eh I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to try and win end of season with a kms team

[thin cosmos]

I don't care anything about rank

I just care about strongest team can beat weaker team even with defender disadvantage and that's it

it's just for fun

[calm mica]

Right

I still think it's a fools errand, since at worst you force a good player to just switch out a ship or piece of equipment. It's just being mean to newer players that want to farm an extra point off you for AotN

[thin cosmos]

old people are not that smart as you think))

I know so many still don't accept beaver tag and aircraft fuel

[calm mica]

Wouldn't take perfecting a defense team to beat someone missing beaver tag

current meta, avgas is pretty optional though

[thin cosmos]

no beaver so huge

ofcourse not as big as 20%dibuff but not all put all there plate on pvp

also not all players oath

so stacked minor things bring big gap

I'm pretty sure they would use shell on there BB too

the point is I saw 2 person with full 120 ships complaining about my fleet since they can't win even 10 retreat

[candid sluice]

ngl manju nj clutched a few battles for me when i forgot to swap off

[covert swallow]

manjuu NJ feels way better to me than manjuu on any vanguard

[candid sluice]

kris can u move for me real quick

[covert swallow]

done

[candid sluice]

appreciate

[light crystal]

The no non-sense PvP build, that also allows u comfortable usage in PvE as well (Against Medium/Heavy bosses and general mobbing, at least).

[slender tartan]

isnt that the gear lab dd gun? is it good on her? rn i have a twin 114mm on her. and im trying to get her a baguette gun or would the gear lab one be better?

[north vine]

gear lab is better

baguette likes to miss with its shit pattern/spread

AP also allows double hits

[candid sluice]

shell velocity and pierce better than 114

u not gonna be hitting a vg in your face without ap rounds

[somber axle]

https://streamable.com/zuaffv

[candid sluice]

quyet has yet to tell us what white shell does

[elder crane]

From all the testing it's pretty clear Manjuu on NJ by far is the more annoying defense (pre-shima since who knows now)
there's no USN vanguards (except Helena, though that isn't the best setup) where the +8s from Manjuu really makes a difference atm, Seattle/Anchorage/Birmingham are just there to make sure their vanguard doesn't out-live yours pretty much, they don't contribute any damage or buffs or anything, and Juneau generally already survives too long anyways (<- might be worth revisiting if torpteam meta? although it'll suck vs standard team so ehh)
while it isn't such a big deal vs some nonmeta setups, for the mafia mirror if it ever comes close at all the Manjuu NJ setup pretty much will win over a non-manjuu one since you get +8s over the other NJ on survival timing when both fire and NJ is almost always the last ship alive - vs good defense setups, it's pretty much like +10% WR
the less reliant on NJ you are for dmg though the less it matters, so that would be like torpmemes (although who else would even take it?) or if you're targeting NJ with Warkai/FdG, or if you don't run 457 on her etc
otherwise Rudder or SG would be my rec, white shell is basically PvE setup on her. it's not so worse as to make a major difference, although if your team is suboptimal in other ways it can add up

If I'm running a good team and I see Manjuu pop on vanguard I pretty much auto afk and have had zero dropped matches cause of it

[thin cosmos]

you wouldn't face that 1vs 1 sutiation if you put manjuu at vg

[slender tartan]

so today we got some meta fights as well. everything went relatively ok accept my last fight. where i had FDG triple salvo a yuki again. so i said fuck it and i started switching out gear. trying out shit. spended 1,5 hour trying out stuff. 1 pain, 2 was okish i would say (if FDG works that is) , 3 similar but way more squishy cuz no WSNT buff, 4 tanky but no acc , 5 i hate my FDG, 6 still hate her. i think 2 is the better one. am i missing something or any suggestions? [yes roon μ is gonna get replaced by agir in the future, also yes i know sometimes something that works in one fight might not work on other fights, just trying to find a "best" solution to most problems (except switching to mafia, i havent lost my sanity to switch to them. yet)]

[thin cosmos]

AA is quite important than you think\

so better put normal 113 for 2 VG

also chihi has very low hp, so better put hp aux

[slender tartan]

something like this?

[light crystal]

Still, you should not sell it off as the optimal choice. It only works in Defense if the RNG allows for it to work there. On Attack, it's an active demerit, it's not going to magically allow you to win or anyway. Chances are, you're probably gonna reset anyway even with Manjuu on NJ just as often if not more often than not using it. You're wasting an Aux spot for 500 HP, rather than using it for Eva, Hit or FP, stuff that more actively impacts BB performance.

And all of that argument for pro or con of Manjuu aside, that still leaves you with one other issue: Ruining DPS performance pretty badly for PvE. Unless you're ok with the constant swapping just to use for PvP, in defense, whenever you want to user her in PvE. After all, she's overall the best DPS BB in the game for both PvP/E.

[untold crater]

? lol

[hot creek]

imagine using PVE performance as an argument for PVP.

[light crystal]

Well, that's why I said aside, it wasn't the main argument kek

Wut do u take me for, a casual PvP'r?

[candid sluice]

You’re gonna swap off rudder backline if ur gonna pve too

[light crystal]

I don't run it on mine

[stable dawn]

Aoste confirmed casual

[frail orbit]

[somber axle]

I too simply restart when I lose to Manjuu on NJ.

[frail orbit]

Imagine not having multiple +13 shell to be switched to manjuu NJ

[karmic forum]

Imagine not having two 120/200 NJs

[calm mica]

My BB fleet is still 1-shotting Stonghold bosses even with leaving Manjuu on NJ. I seriously see no need to put such an emphasis on PvE

[candid sluice]

if only there was pve content that required swapping equips

aside from cm and ex ofc

[calm mica]

There's maybe META fights, and even then that's once a day to swap equips

[hot creek]

I don't even bother. yall are stuck with my mediocre 500k assists.

[crude mortar]

yall dead

[jaunty bear]

nagato , akaga are the best , no shit

[thin cosmos]

yes

[candid sluice]

nagato akaga are shit

there fixed it for u

[slender tartan]

i give up, im done with these dumb animals. 1 year of grind to end up shooting a yuki. so. what gun should i give to VV. NJ gets 457mm. should i give her the rainbow HE 406mm or like an AP gun? i also have a maxed proto. triple 406mm standing by.

[slender tartan]

dont know if i geared them properly. either way. this shit aint fair. its different.

[ebon kraken]

[light crystal]

It looks OK? But I would use STAAG instead of those AA mounts on YKKZ/Duca, and more defensive Aux of YKKZ at least

Boiler/HP/Fire Extinguishers

[slender tartan]

i dont have any more STAAG. i have hazemeyers would they get the job done? also i have her the gold torp cuz she has the new rainbow torps (i just added the old ones on the fleet maker cuz they new ones are not in yet). aside that would celestial body be good for yuki instead of torp?

[light crystal]

Probably, yea

[calm mica]

Yeah, the FP AAs are destroying your AA capabilities. Those things are awful outside easy grinding. That and more boilers for more speed is the only major fix needed

[flint sun]

Ykk > seattle??

[calm mica]

For recommendations, sextuple on Duca and whatever fast AA on YKK

[flint sun]

[calm mica]

The 3rd member isn't that important, it could be anything. But yeah, things are built wrong and that's the main issue

Pretty sure nobody would recommend a YKK with no HP equipment

[slender tartan]

the best i can do is give them hazemeyers only staags i got are on NJ and VV. and my single sextuple is on juneau. aside that celestial body on yuki. also i dont have seattle or ancho. like. not even made.

[flint sun]

Ohhh

[slender tartan]

plus my fleet currently is under leveled. like not one of them is 120 lvl. NJ117,VV114,AQL111,DUCA111,YYKZ111,JUN110. despite that they nuke everything. which i have no comment on. its just different

[calm mica]

Then I'd go with a quad bofor on Duca until you get the 2nd sextuple and then hazemeyer on YKK

[slender tartan]

imma try it. also. i dont have a second HPFCR . but when i do get a second one. should i give one on VV too? like rudder/HPFCR. and give beaver to yuki and have her beaver/celestial body. or keep VV full tank with beaver/rudder and leave yuki rudder/celestial?

[calm mica]

SG radar works better on VV. The HPFCR makes her load too fast and she'll be firing into smokescreens easier

[candid sluice]

Did u finally stop trying to use kms?

[slender tartan]

maybe use them again in the future. if this ever gets nerfed (doubt) or if IB actually gets fixed (doubt). maybe when i make agir yet again she probably will be powercrept by the time i make her. until then we go bunny. cuz i can either beg FDG to hit the backline or have bunny delete them from the game files .

[trail temple]

CL gun on Juneau

[elder crane]

ye surprised no one mentioned that

but tbf it also barely matters so

[elder crane]

anyways as mentioned Juneau should take twin 130 mm or twin 128 mm ideally, or at least any DD gun

[calm mica]

I feel like twin 100mm is ideal since it gives the most AA and vanguard guns barely matter

[candid sluice]

yea id rather stack aa on jun

[quartz drum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/823802850807250948/889365318747684904/Screenshot_20210920-111912_Azur_Lane.jpg

new meta

[calm mica]

When did the new meta start using non-MLB ships?

[quartz drum]

don't have coin

[candid sluice]

Coin has always been the meta

[slender tartan]

yo like legit am i doing something wrong? enemy VV usually deal way more dmg than mine. like have i fucked up her gearing or its just my imagination cuz she just gets overshadowed by bunny?

[candid sluice]

how much are their affinity

[slender tartan]

not much. i just got them in the fleet and dorm. NJ63,VV58,AQL64,YUKI57,DUCA58,JUN51

so the problem is she just doesnt like me so she slacking?

[candid sluice]

that might be one of the reasons

[slender tartan]

that will be fixed in time. her gear is ok tho. or should i go ap or something?

[karmic forum]

Are your ships level 120?

[slender tartan]

you sir. just made me remember. that VV is 115 and NJ 117. and now i hate my life

[candid sluice]

that might be another issue

[thin cosmos]

which torpede has the fastest reload regardless of damage?

[untold crater]

triple non mag from research

[thin cosmos]

thx

[untold crater]

nvm

[thin cosmos]

oh so blue one faster

[calm mica]

People seriously out here dorming their NJs and VVs up to 120

[untold crater]

^

Next level slacking

[tall nimbus]

they're just busy lawnmowing since that's the way to play

[light crystal]

They're gonna have fun when 125 cap is released, and they barely hit 120, at sub 200 Affection

[dull hollow]

so is the britbong torp op now

like do ships just aim all 5 torps at a backliner

if u win the frontline excahnge

tbh the new rainbow quint seems like a huge scam

unless ur manual play god for max alpha but that's a different topic

[calm mica]

Aren't they BiS with black torp?

Admittedly, 360 gold plates for an 8% increase in DPS is pretty steep compared to teatorp

[dull hollow]

o lmao the

well lemme try some more battles

but the way the AI aims the torps

is actaully rly dumb i think

for the britbong torps

im probs late to the party but the game like

fires the brittorps in a 5x1 staggered pattern instead of a 1x5 wave

but all torps follow the same angle that the first torp was aimed on

meaning in the 1s or so firing animation, ur bote can move

and the game doesnt correct the offset so u end up whiffing a lot of torps anyway

mag torps live another day

esp for ppl like naga and duca

who excel in firing 2 waves

i would imagine shimakaze would be similar

[candid sluice]

you are late to the party

[elder crane]

Those are known for performing better with HMS torps though? especially Naganami, Duca has more argument for mags due to pushing through to main sometimes

and yeah torpaim AI basically did nothing for PvP and only minor changes still favoring mags overall in PvE

[dull hollow]

i will say that the hms torps are personally

funnier to watch

and have a much higher ceiling potential

so

im gonna use them anyway

u either whiff all 5 or u land a god roll

the biggest disappointment is the new rainbow tho

fkin skem wep

[elder crane]

torps are all or nothing on effectiveness for the most part so HMS gud
as in if you don't alpha hard enough for early kill they don't matter much

ye rainbow is super scam

[dull hollow]

was rly hoping that either the wep would be a 1x1 torp with a 5s reload or Shimakaze had a skill that did that

oh well

[elder crane]

it's lower total dmg than +13 HMS torps until you +12 it which is already almost double the gold plates, and even then only teeny advantage (+2/10% dmg approx) for fan spread

ultra scam

[dull hollow]

in a world where we didnt get that ai update i could see the fan spread being useful but with the ai update

coz of the fan u still only hit 1 torp

maybe 2

but the tea torps have a fairly decent chance to land 2 or 3 if you win the excahnge

[elder crane]

naw I think AI update is technically good for fan
problem is
it's small improvement even when it aims and lol at aiming more than like 1/3 of the time

since 70 targeting angle lmao

almost as bad as CA gun angle

and even 610s just 45 targeting range

[dull hollow]

yuh

mags and brit bong torp def won the hardest

even tho the ai is wondy for brit torps

but it's still way better than before coz brit torps were essnetially useless

[elder crane]

ye brit torps is 70 angle 35 range which is LMAO

[dull hollow]

if u won the exchange

[elder crane]

literally CA angle + AA range

took me like a dozen matches before I saw it aim once

[dull hollow]

and in pve they're quite nice now for shooting the fatties that dont move

oh i m just assuming u win the exchange

coz once ur milling around in their face

there's a decent aim chance

[elder crane]

70 angle 35 range means it doesn't aim in PvE auto like half the time too

[dull hollow]

tho tbh if u win the exchange

ur aquila is rpobably spanking them anyway

[elder crane]

ye it kills flag a bit harder when you push through

but like a bit who cares on that tbh

[dull hollow]

yah

u gamble landing 5 or 0

where as mag quad is just ur probably gonna land 1 anemic torp

[elder crane]

maybe it matters 1/1000 times

[dull hollow]

maybe 2

none of thos matters at all tho besides the half dozen of us who actually enjoy watching the auto

[elder crane]

the reduced angle means prolly 2 these days?
I wonder w shima if can stack enough alpha that is worth using mags?

[dull hollow]

the more interesting question for me pve wise is

can i shove shima into my default bulldoze comp

she has to compete with azuma drake and helmet rn

[elder crane]

on that note I slapped Harugumo in my CV Souryuumet comp recently
somehow at lv 113 sandwiched she lives til the nuke, I think Souryuu does less dmg than Helena/Ark? Also she barely puts out any planes so you don't need much AA either
anyways at lv 113 full auto she does like 50k which is fairly respectable

[dull hollow]

harugumo

u fkin memer

[elder crane]

wait

[dull hollow]

:kitakaze

huh no emotes

[elder crane]

tf is her name again

[dull hollow]

it's kitakaze LULW

unless u were thinking of

[elder crane]

no the CV buffer you baka

[dull hollow]

someone else

completely different

u mean the bunny dd who looks like ayanami

but is USN?

[elder crane]

no the IJN one

[dull hollow]

oh

idk

[elder crane]

kazagumo right

[dull hollow]

[elder crane]

I keep forgetting her name

[dull hollow]

i always used harry potter

coz

her buff had the highest value

iirc

could be wron tho

[elder crane]

nope

potter just standard +15%

Her extra is vanguard buff

[dull hollow]

oh

[elder crane]

-10% dmg taken in lead and +10% dmg dealt in rear

[dull hollow]

the Klee clone

Klee clone only gives 15% to backline as well

but she vomits torps i guess

with AI change yeah that's some damage

[elder crane]

Kazagumo is the torpboat one, Ariake+
her own torp (launch+barrage) DpS rivals the old carries like aya
not quite as good iirc but yeah +15% CV dmg too

[dull hollow]

idk if

it better damage than 2 helena tho

u cant front tank with helena

so i have to shove azuma there

[elder crane]

perfect for Nano buffs anyways

I'm running MArk Ark Nano

helena or the meta is like 60k dmg max for the most part anyways

[dull hollow]

for me the helmet slows

line up really gud tho

my Klee is like

level 50 tho

i guess i will work on her next

souryu here for 80 days anyway

[elder crane]

ehh if you go ~22 s three strike you only need slow on first launch, rest fire into stops

and first launch fires into a half stop

w Ark and MArk slows it seems to be alright

[dull hollow]

the helmet debuff tho

[elder crane]

helmet is +10% though

[dull hollow]

but i guess klee is vomiting torps too

tho helmet also shoot a million bullets

so idk how it shakes out

[elder crane]

also something else I found out
if your CV/L doesn't vomit barrages if you run 22s launch you can actually let the CV/L get spotted by Souryuu planes, you restealth in time for the next launch

[dull hollow]

idk how u land hits for the 3rd strike

if u slow down enough to hit her stop

helena buff gone

if u try to hit helena buff

she mills around

[elder crane]

Helmet as I mentioned is like 60k max, maybe 70 or maaaaybe 80k at most if really lucky
you lose out on 5% dmg though and kaza is already 50k at lv 113

[dull hollow]

are u counting her personal damage

or the 10% buff as well

idr what her values were

need to run tmrw

[elder crane]

personal dmg only

[dull hollow]

yah i think another 10% debuff

for ur cv

[elder crane]

I haven't seen her hit 70k personally but also I only ran her in BB team with +10 guns

[dull hollow]

who are doing like

600-750k+

[elder crane]

Kazagumo is +15% though

[dull hollow]

i think she pulls head

how diluted is 15%

idk anymore

too much genshin

i assume all % dmg buffs get diluted

but idt AL has

that many

[elder crane]

Nano has no dmg buff
Ark is average +25%? same with MArk I think?

so only +12% for those two on avg

[dull hollow]

[elder crane]

dmg buff tend to be less common

usually it's stat

Helena's (meta or not) type is the best ofc since multiplicative with all
but +10% is really small

Kaza buff better save for like literally Enty?
or I guess Nano boosted zkk maybe?

ye nano boosted zkk is avg over 50% (+40%, +60%, +80% or I guess +50%, +70%, +90% effectively since skk too)

I use for BB team since is not like any options there

[dull hollow]

does bb still win vs souryuu

[elder crane]

ye twipple 457 gud

[dull hollow]

[elder crane]

and also NJ god

[dull hollow]

i dont have enough +13 plates

[elder crane]

for auto CV team is almost impossible to 4 reload reliably since last ~6 s Soryuu nukes your ass and is hard to get Helena unpopped til then

[dull hollow]

well u can shove manjuu on her

but

[elder crane]

I guess maybe if you're clever on Ancho timing that might work?

[dull hollow]

im too lazy to deal with that

[elder crane]

ye that's the point

manjuu unpopped til then

[dull hollow]

on my friend poverty acc

where my front tank

is fkin portland

she doesnt manjuu until end

and helena is in the middle too

[elder crane]

idk mine popped like 1/3 of the time

so I gave up on it

don't wanna keep moving manjuu anyways

[dull hollow]

yah same

well my friend acc

i still run helena on pvp for her

coz

helena lets u punch up a lot more

since she's still poverty

having the debuff helps with winning vs aids comps

[elder crane]

ye gotta pull out the RNG stuff to upscale

[dull hollow]

i keep dropping 5 battles coz im not used to NA server timings

i played for years assuming JP timings

[elder crane]

meanwhile I'm dropping 5 every season despite being on NA only for 3+ yrs

[dull hollow]

[light crystal]

@elder crane So what is the consensus for new Quint rainbows? Both for PvP and PvE. My understanding is that for PvP, they'r pretty meh, but good for PvE.

[elder crane]

overpriced and almost useless in both is my opinion on it, though PvP still needs more testing and PvE maybe more useful if super tryhard in CM/Meta or something

can't even EX since EX all have massive torp dr these days

[light crystal]

🤔

[elder crane]

this for my opinion on it although the dmg advantage is like 2% higher than what I said here

[light crystal]

I think they're underwhelming and am dissapointed. Would've liked if they had hit the same as the gold versions

I hope they change that in the future

[candid sluice]

its gonna replace 610kai in cm thats about it

i mean did we expect anything else

[oblique silo]

I think they’re good with the black torp but overpriced

[light crystal]

For the damage per torp to be at least that of the gold quad version

[elder crane]

ye would mean over +20% total dmg on HMS torps so maybe interesting for other stuff

but as is is

[candid sluice]

you would have to hit all your torps for it to be better than teatorps

which is with that spread

[elder crane]

at +20% dmg it's almost on par w 4 torps so just occasional 5 makes it worth
DD get reduced spread now so it's only as bad as old quads, maybe even a tad better

[candid sluice]

but can u focus all that torp dmg on one ship and take it out immediately

[elder crane]

and in PvP, HMS torps in full torpcomp (even pre-shima) does overkill a bit so getting dmg more spread out could be nice

but with them as-is is almost definitely no

[thin cosmos]

now you need to penetrate smoke so need much more damage

[elder crane]

torpmemes doesn't care that much about smoke though

hitrate is high enough that it's not a hard shutdown like it is for main

you're at 85-90% pre-smoke iirc vs like 50-60% for main, something like that

is also hard to get smoke to cover vg consistently although that's more of a thing for defense torpmemes

[stable dawn]

[sour oasis]

Sleep happens.

[dull hollow]

local skunk is drunk

there was no flagship alive

when i started moving over

[serene saddle]

Damn anchorage is so op

Pop smoke to block early torp or preload burst everytime she torpedo

[light crystal]

Yes and no, still an element of RNG to that 🤔

[candid sluice]

If only she does damage

[light crystal]

It's not terrible, just put a Drakegun, and she can pose a threat to anything as long as she's alive and shooting. Capable of bringing down low enough ships. MGM+1, after all.

[thin cosmos]

better AP gun pretty sure

[elder crane]

Drakegun has literally almost twice the DpS vs light though so ehh

you'd have to pen almost every time

[thin cosmos]

penetration+against medium and heavy armor

and even faster bullet speed

[sour oasis]

I'm still twelve prints away from my first Drake gun

[candid sluice]

im 36 away

[crude mortar]

ryoya just got his first lmao

he sitting at 30 when i got 12

he got 50 when i got 24

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/749892752376070187/890323725302501386/92P_6TZ1UM5H6N4JH.gif

[candid sluice]

whats his 10rai count

[crude mortar]

already 50

4HG too strong

cut grass + 4hg = ez tenrai

[candid sluice]

god damn

[elder crane]

Can't pen vs med/heavy in main fleet so DpS worse anyways even if +13 gold AP vs +11 Drake (okay technically Zaragun would win vs med then but you'd be extra shit vs light/heavy which is 4/6 ships at minimum), vs vanguard you can pen but

you'd have to pen almost every time
since losing half DpS vs light which spoiler, is at least 2/3 of vanguard if not 3/3
plus even AP only hits if they stop moving properly anyways

[light crystal]

Drakegun on Ancho is lit

If u got one, must have for her in PvP

Can come clutch in many instances

[calm mica]

If only I wasn't in the Tenrai waitlist for the next 4-6 months

[untold crater]

progress?

[calm mica]

20/50

[untold crater]

thats rough

[slender tartan]

im 14/50. .

btw i tried speed VG. junea PT-Boiler,Yuki Rudder-Boiler, Duca Rudder-CS. shit is hilarious they be dodging everything.

[quartz drum]

@candid sluice

[candid sluice]

backline unequipped

[quartz drum]

point 14k?

[candid sluice]

Check back next hour backline should be 15.9k

[stable dawn]

[quartz drum]

telat

[candid sluice]

mkny dont attack me yet

[quartz drum]

udh ranknya under me

[candid sluice]

then just bail before u win

[midnight heron]

just wanna say whoever designed anchorage pls go fk urself for making a huge pvp timewaster

1min pvp is not enough lets make it 2 👏

[karmic forum]

What comp are you using to make matches take 2 mins?

[untold crater]

prob vs anchorage

[light crystal]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475414043348172811/889971682847109170/ezgif-3-750df6f38f88.gif

[late heath]

[midnight heron]

idk why the game is so obsessed with rng skills aka evasion/chance based barrage

just when we had a comp that relies on minimal rng to work, out comes a ship that has to introduce additional rng to ruin things

fk off

hope u guys hf when well built anchorage comps start showing up

[covert swallow]

just use your own anchorage

[jaunty finch]

i love my anchorage

gt fucked mafia

[slender tartan]

suffering... but yeah. she annoying AF. i cant even imagine facing this with IB when it can potentially gimme trouble with mafia. #tirpitzbarragewhen?#biscuitbetterbarragewhen?#givingupontheideathatBBandtorpsgotogetherwhen?

[jaunty finch]

[slender tartan]

manjuu on helena . granted i see a warspite and 3 USS ships. chances are you aint using mafia, respect+

[jaunty finch]

i have no italian ships at all so i gotta do waht i can lol

[slender tartan]

i see. used to do that with IB. until i gave up. being out of refreshes cuz everyone uses mafia, and having 5 full build mafia fights and bashing your head against them for 1 hour until it works. aint fun. and all of this cuz IB skills are from the stone age.

[calm mica]

Even when IB ships came out in the past they weren't really pvp viable.

[jaunty finch]

yes i was having decent trouble with mafia before this

right now i use nj/indep/wk with a swordfish on indep, jun/helena/anc

if swordfish hits properly, nj annihilates the frontline

helena doesnt even need to proc, but hwne she does everyone dies

i havent found a team i cant beat

[slender tartan]

the only time i had fun is during nanoryuu when i had maxed out FDG. and i used azur lane metas build from his video. and then i just stat checked them to oblivion. the only time i had problems where when juneau had manjuu. but even then it wouldnt take too much cuz FDG could make quick work of hiryuu with her symphony and i just had to survive the 20 sec mark hell storm. aside that things where cool. now with mafia its nightmare for my IB. maybe with maxed out Agir and AVP maybe then but it will take months until i have them ready. until then im using mafia. not that i enjoy it. i hate all of the ships in this fleet. but what i hate more is spending 1-2 hours for 5 exercises. so it is what it is........

[covert swallow]

use shimakaze she's good, trust me

[jaunty finch]

i dont even have any preloaders, feel bad heh

[candid sluice]

[oblique silo]

I’d rather deal with that than 2 minute battles with IJN cancer

[candid sluice]

Have you considered timing your attacks outside of anchovy smoke

[untold crater]

That's too hard

Complaining is easier

[tall nimbus]

[candid sluice]

Time to tell #game-feedback to delete ancho

[tall nimbus]

when anchorage is smarter than the players

[stable dawn]

[calm mica]

Smoking that much would cause any normal person brain damage. Only Anchorage able to get away with it, how does she do it

[untold crater]

? Anchorage clearly missing a screw in her head

Far from getting away with it

[candid sluice]

Lost a few braincells thru smoke inhalation

[midnight heron]

idk what some ppl are smoking here either

my issue is with fking rng in gameplay

and i'll cry about as long as its present

"just time it outside of ancho smoke" woah if its so ez how about u show us how its done

otherwise how about stfu?

[calm mica]

It probably wouldn't be too difficult to just upgrade a slower gun on VV to give her extra shots once Ancho's smoke is done instead of during it

[midnight heron]

and im sure that will ensure all my shots are fired at the vg instead of backline

totally no rng involved

👏

[calm mica]

You're playing a gacha game, you know that, right?

[midnight heron]

pls dont change the subject

gacha game yes

pulling chars doesnt affect actual gameplay

im speaking strictly gameplay

[calm mica]

I'm just saying, expecting no RNG involvement is asking the impossible

If it's not BB preload targetting, it's Helena procs, torpedo aiming, other skill procs, etc.

[slender tartan]

unless one day they give us full control during attack. which i dont think is gonna happen since it would solve problems but most likely create more.

[midnight heron]

i agree

but prior to ancho release, rng didnt matter that much

[tall nimbus]

[calm mica]

I seriously have not felt a big impact from Anchorage

She seems to just extend fights more than lower winrate

[tall nimbus]

anchorage smoke being actually useful is also rng

NJ barrage also deals with ancho

duca landmines also deal with ancho

[midnight heron]

well we'll know the true extent of her impact when more ppl actually max and build her well

but as far as ive experienced vs good comps with her

its a shitshow

extending matches to 2mins

[calm mica]

Haven't seen 2 minutes myself. One single time it went to 1:30, otherwise she's extended it maybe one NJ reload at best

But yeah, well built ones will probably make it last annoyingly long

[tall nimbus]

juneau vs anchorage 1v1

[midnight heron]

anyway i apologise if i came across as mfing rude

i just felt like some ppl here were dismissing my concerns without even understanding what i truly meant to say

[calm mica]

Yeah, it's just that vanguard survival will always be very luck-based in the first place because of random movement. They hit a soft ceiling on survival pretty easily. But more powerful backline has no limit as NJ has shown. It's going to come down to how well your team works before anything else and luck will come second

[light crystal]

Thats why I use Bulge on my Ancho, solely to counter those landmines kek

Wait nvm, I dont anymore 🤔

[stable dawn]

looks like I'm not the only amnesiac here now

[light crystal]

Well, currently running Rudder/Manjuu on her, and she lead

[sullen sierra]

is HSFCR no longer really recommended on VV anymore due to anchorage?

[light crystal]

I still use it 🤔

[idle ledge]

gear and placement check pls (don't have black torp)

[hot creek]

manjuu doko

[idle ledge]

I forgot

[untold crater]

mk7 on nj

[idle ledge]

is it not?

[candid sluice]

use 457 on nj

[idle ledge]

45/50

[untold crater]

There's better guns for VV too

[idle ledge]

mle?

[untold crater]

I use 381mm AA personally

[candid sluice]

mk6 works fine tbh

just nj gun is the glaring issue

also the fact that its torpmemes without teatorps blacktorp

[idle ledge]

teatorp?

[untold crater]

HMS quint from gear lab

Mk9(?)

the ones that fire in a straight line

[idle ledge]

Oh, I have one +13, is it better for Duca than rainbow?

[untold crater]

Rather use it on jint

[candid sluice]

better on the other two with blacktorp

luigi is the only one that can get away with magtorps

[idle ledge]

I'm not sure there's even a blacktorp on amagi, I started pretty late

[untold crater]

there is

guess you just missed event

[candid sluice]

noctis definitely ran on amagi

u probs too new to farm it like me

[idle ledge]

well that sucks

[untold crater]

What even was aurora noctis

[candid sluice]

perseus howe event

early august 2020

[idle ledge]

oh, right, I just missed perseus

[untold crater]

oh yea Amagi was only 3-4 months old back then, makes sense that newer players don't have it

[idle ledge]

so is it still teatorp even without blacktorp?

[candid sluice]

not everyone started during server opening

[untold crater]

Never tried auto teatorps without blacktorp

[candid sluice]

its hit or miss

you either nuke a ship or miss every single torp

[untold crater]

yea you'd need more resets without black torp

[idle ledge]

so am I better off just going back to juneau over jintsu?

[candid sluice]

yes

[untold crater]

Maybe better off not using torp memes

[candid sluice]

full torpmemes without teatorp blacktorp is pretty much worthless

[idle ledge]

ic

[crude mortar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/712571793126326303/857647343632908349/unknown.gif

[candid sluice]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/7405213facfba97efe4f3a2455d18158/tenor.gif?itemid=23183539

[quartz drum]

@candid sluice

[candid sluice]

why u take -1