pvp

[proper sorrel]

oh that's nice

[radiant brook]

Not nice to those who nuked her but not the other 2, especially when they aren't nugget fleet scums

@proper sorrel got a hard counter against nugget fleets that dosen't require you to use her?

[proper sorrel]

i use standard sara+richy+warkai+noshiro+yukikaze+jda or sandy

jda if im against akaga

they don't counter that well sometimes, but it works

[radiant brook]

So how exactly that counter nugget?

[proper sorrel]

it doesn't

but i don't have issues beating it

if you can win, that's all that matters most

[radiant brook]

Did you spent hours just for good rng to win against that?

[proper sorrel]

2 or 3 resets at most

[radiant brook]

Better try it out when skybound comes

[proper sorrel]

why skybound

[radiant brook]

Richy and jda

[candid sluice]

Attacker advantage is enough to beat nagato

[proper sorrel]

pretty much

[candid sluice]

I use a scuffed back line and can still beat a full oath ijn squad

Without nagato

[proper sorrel]

richy sara has been pretty satisfying for me

[candid sluice]

Enty hiryuu warkai can take them out on attack which is what I’ve been using

At most 3 or 4 resets

[radiant brook]

Can this win against nugget scum fleets?

[candid sluice]

You have a major level disadvantage

[radiant brook]

That's the best I could muster tbh

The only other option is a 115 enty and 120 London retro

[candid sluice]

Get your backline to 120 then u have a chance

[thin cosmos]

so you are just too weak to say about balance

[radiant brook]

Kinda yes, but seeing everyone running nugget fleets at rank 1k is just really frustrating

[thin cosmos]

I can't see anything wrong with the existence of the best combo

[candid sluice]

It’s the meta fleet for a reason

[radiant brook]

Therefore a hard counter should exist to stop it from being so monotonous

[proper sorrel]

but then everyone would start using the hard counter fleet

lol

[candid sluice]

If it has hard counter then what’s the point of using it then lol

Then it’s just rock paper scissors

[proper sorrel]

if it has a counter, that means it is more consistent and is stronger than nagato fleet, meaning people will start using that instead

[radiant brook]

Just leave every meta fleet with a crippling weakness so it won't be invincible

And defense fleets are different from attacking fleets anyways

[candid sluice]

Their crippling weakness is the attacker buff

[proper sorrel]

is it meta if it has a crippling weakness though

the goal is to be relatively effective against any compositions

[candid sluice]

It’s not meta if it has a 100% loss rate against another fleet

[radiant brook]

Or making nugget buff go away when she dies would be nice to those who use to snipe her out right of the bat

[thin cosmos]

this isn't RPG with fixed class so I ok with unbalance between decs. And that unbalance is less than attacker buff. So you can use quite a lot decs.

[radiant brook]

But can my fleet win against a max out nanoryuu and manjuu Juneau?

[proper sorrel]

sure

[radiant brook]

Does it require hours of resets?

[proper sorrel]

probably not

[thin cosmos]

not at all

[candid sluice]

Level up your ships first the try again

[proper sorrel]

having shinano there already makes it pretty viable

[thin cosmos]

I can say more than 10 decs can have more than 50 win rate at attacking

[candid sluice]

How do u expect to snipe anything with a lvl 104 warkai

[proper sorrel]

104 warkai does 32% less damage against enemies that are level 120 because level advantage

[radiant brook]

I didn't think that her retro item will come so soon so I kept at 100 for a while

[thin cosmos]

no accuracy is too low

[candid sluice]

Well then don’t complain about unfairness when you don’t even have leveled ships

Of course you’re gonna lose

[thin cosmos]

just think as 5 vs 6

[candid sluice]

A 13 lvl gap is massive

[radiant brook]

So you mean nugget fleets aren't invincible when I finally get them to 120

[proper sorrel]

they never were invincible

[radiant brook]

But with manjuu Juneau they might as well be

[proper sorrel]

and yes with proper gear, you can beat any fleet really

[candid sluice]

It’s not as busted as you’re making it out to be

[thin cosmos]

what I can say is this. you can't win in mirror with 104, 117 ship

[candid sluice]

Unless you get real unlucky and whiff all your torps miss all warkai shots zero monarch and helena procs and opp nagato procs 100% of the time

And that’s what resetting is for

[thin cosmos]

would have 0 chance if my hiryuu is 104 and shinano is 117

as I think ships below 110 is just useless

and 115 ships even do 0.5 of 120

[candid sluice]

Levels > everything else

[thin cosmos]

I know this cause sometimes I use low level ship with 5 other full dec for ex

and low level ship like 107 do just nothing

[radiant brook]

Nvm, just fought a nugget scum with a juneau/jintsuu/ykkz and one wave of torps just murdered my vanguards, even when Helena is at 120

[proper sorrel]

use nelson flag

[candid sluice]

Nelson flag wnt torp bulge

Come on

[radiant brook]

Still working on those, don't have enough bulins to limit break the ships for those stuff

[candid sluice]

Then don’t complain abt fleets being busted when you’re fighting them with scuffed ships and equips

[proper sorrel]

understandable

[thin cosmos]

I just wonder, are there any easy dec to win for you now?

I guess any trash dec like enter Essex warkai would be disaster with that level gap

It's 4vs6 really

[candid sluice]

You cannot expect to consistently win against defense fleets using underleveled ships and without proper equips

[elder crane]

Pretty much just about 3 levels means effectively your attacker advantage is just gone

-6% dmg dealt +6% dmg taken -3% HP multiplier and hitrate mods on top of lower stats

[thin cosmos]

About VG aux item upgrade, how do you guys think about DD first than azuma?

azuma has the most ehp but she should be placed on top since she has better tanking from vg fire due to medium armor.

This lead to the last standing vg is more likely DD. So upgrade 550hp item can be better than upgrade rudder

specially with suzu cause she gives smoke for all vg

both skirt and rudder gives ~1% ehp upgrade per each upgrade level

[elder crane]

You lead with Manjuu Juneau obvs smh
Which means Azuma is last one standing :PortDoll:

Lead Manjuu Juneau makes her heal timing very consistently useful
Also means you can absorb a good amount of burst dmg with her

[thin cosmos]

what are you talking about? If you think so you should put her at center

since our goal is let any of vg survive not 2 vg survive

[elder crane]

Naw Juneau in any other spot with or without Manjuu has high risk of dying too early or too late

[thin cosmos]

juneau position must be lead

[elder crane]

Also it's not so easy just to pick one vg to survive since sometimes RNG just says no

Better to diversify a bit, I've found

[thin cosmos]

so our question is DD center or azuma center

[elder crane]

DD center 100%
Trailing with bad RNG (esp 818 slow) takes BB/Azuma gunfire, also Nagato barrages
Azuma is capable of absorbing either, any DD can just explode though

[thin cosmos]

yes that's the result from real test

so that's why we put DD at center

so for now DD position is the safest

[elder crane]

Oh you mean upping DD aux in center vs Azuma trailing

Tbh I find Azuma lives longer more often anyways lol

Probably most of it tho is just that Azuma is in my PvE team too

So she's been taking priority on aux part upgrades

[thin cosmos]

that's the dilemma.

I also see azuma survive longer more often but I want my suzu survive longer

she dies too early quite often

200hp would help some

and for one more, for those skills after 20% recover 15%, what happens if it dies in 1shot from over 20%?

[candid sluice]

The skill won’t have time to trigger and she sinks

[thin cosmos]

that's HURT

[light crystal]

I have trailing YKKZ. 1/4 Gang yo.

[trail temple]

Bench ykkz all the way

[sour oasis]

Maybe I don't have the right equips, but if the flex team is offensive, I take Yukikaze off the bench.

[naive dome]

what gear lab eq should I build if I care about PVP ?

[candid sluice]

Gold helldiver

[trail temple]

^

Wyverns are a long term thing

[sour oasis]

Is it better to research Wyvern from Fulmar or skip a step by buying Firecrest(?) from core store?

[radiant brook]

Research wyvern if you can

Since wyvern can intercept planes

[uncut agate]

I'd rather buy the firebrand with cores. I can use the alloys and electronics to make a Tigercat or something rather than waste it on making a firebrand

[candid sluice]

I would buy firebrand with cores too yeah, saves you on those precious plane mats

Firecrest is also a prerequisite for wyvern and that costs mats too

[deep glacier]

My fifth win c:

[candid sluice]

Ggs

[clear briar]

16k in PVP

[thin cosmos]

not that hard with BB with 2 457gun

around 16.3k or 16.5 would be max

[trail temple]

It's basically a flex only at this point

[coral wren]

Whats the new backline meta for pvp

[delicate owl]

nanoryuu (nagato, shinano, hiryuu)

[coral wren]

Eh why? how it will detect enemy CV?

Using this as my pvp fleet,good enough?

because of Akagi and kaga's fast reload it can detect enemy cv so warspite can snipe them.

Vanguard kinda needs a little rework when i get new ships. but good enough for me

So how is nanoryuu good,im guessing the fleet will rely on nagato's barrage and Vanguard to detect enemy's Cv? and shinano and hiryuu will probably do most of the damage?

[delicate owl]

with nanoryuu, you rely on the "burst" damage that shinano and hiryuu provide once they launch their first airstrike

you don't really need to focus hard on detecting enemy cv with that setup because most if not all of your enemy's ships sink upon the first airstrike

nagato's role in that setup is to buff shinano and hiryuu

the only thing that is kinda disadvantageous is when facing a mirror comp because the opponent detects your cvs much faster

[light crystal]

No, it doesn't work that way. WS's first snipe gets bonus damage, the others don't, as strong as they are. And WS's first snipe comes in before Akaga comes up

The only way u can spot before WS's first snipe is by using Perseus

But Perseus has too big of a windup to be useful

[coral wren]

Ok imma try that

Is this good enough or do u go double torp for shinano in pvp

hiryuu slow gears, then shinano torp?

[delicate owl]

double barracuda imo

and avgas + beacon for aux items

[candid sluice]

Use a cuda/ryuusei in first slot

Akaga is easily countered with wnt/jda

[coral wren]

same with hiryuu?

[candid sluice]

All CVs want those

Beacon interchangeable with mic

[thin cosmos]

maybe after wyvern and tons of aux 13, 13 cata would be better than 11 beacon but too far from now

and I think better vf17 at shinano

[candid sluice]

I don’t have enough general plates to test that yet

[thin cosmos]

fighters quite important vs any CV containing dec due to you can drag intercept by hiryuu

btw, wyvern is the only TB can intercept? It's too OP so hard to believe that is exist.

[candid sluice]

Yes for now

[coral wren]

Do you guys think kitakaze would be a good addition for the vanguard for nanoryuu fleet? or she doesnt do well in pvp?

[candid sluice]

It’s rainbow so of course it has to be busted

[thin cosmos]

only good DD are yuki and suzu

for that back line

yuki is good for attacking cause it has lower RNG

suzu is good for defense cause it has higher RNG and hard counter for perseus jean bar resul

basically DD gun is quite hard to do main dealing

so should be tanker

[somber axle]

wrong chat

[thin cosmos]

but think about other rainbow items

they are very good but less than 1.5 times effectiveness compare to gold items

however TB can intercept simply can double it's effectiveness while having stats of rainbow

It's 2.5 times stronger in nanoryu mirror than cuda

so I wonder,"am I understanding right" and "would this intercept really exist or just kind of bug at test server"

[candid sluice]

Yeah wyvern looks more busted than the other rainbows, at least pvp wise

[candid sluice]

Wait until next month for the lucky ones to build it at test right now we can’t do anything but wait for reset

[thin cosmos]

kk I hope I can get it as fastest one of my server

we will get updates at January 21 finally

[candid sluice]

Nice along with tragicomedy rerun?

I got really unlucky and got two rainbow aa prints + main gun

[thin cosmos]

yes but I don't care about tragicomedy rerun

what I need is just 13 upgrade and wyvern

[thin cosmos]

well that sounds too scary for me.

I am expecting 1.5 month at maximum..

and hoping a month

[candid sluice]

It’s looking like another two months for me

I hope u can get better luck than me

[coarse hearth]

Guys, im always battle the lowest opponent alltime, but i still ended up top 1k sooner
All i want just that sweet merit & winrate only
And im too lazy too configure my attack fleet to counter enemy, prefer lvl up my low lvl fleet

Sometime i skip my pvp intentionally
Feel bit of waste

[uncut agate]

[thin cosmos]

So?

[crude jetty]

sooo

I believe in duke of york pvp >.<

[upper cove]

Don't

[crude jetty]

I wish you could build like an actual anti meta fleet....

to snipe early shinano or something

the new cv meta killed so many fun setups

and enhanced only a few one, who have already been good

[spice pagoda]

i havent looked at pvp fleets in like half a year, but the google doc is still from like july. did they stop caring about it?

oh, looking at the pins, did the mods just kill the community by warning people?

[sacred heath]

[royal oyster]

the original community left a long time ago. we're just swatting on an abandoned lot

[spice pagoda]

do they have their own discord?

[royal oyster]

I'm sure everyone has their own discord these days

[elder crane]

For a good while there was nothing much to discuss in PvP, such minor changes that no one really bothered to update shit
With Op siren we got major changes but full effects are unknown, esp since so much of the stuff is timegated
So basically wait as ppl get wyverns and +13 stuff and then do iterations of testing and then maybe there'll be something worth writing that isn't out of date in like 2 weeks
(And also most of the community left during downtime ye)

[candid sluice]

Where did the community go

The only other pvp community I’ve seen is in ALM discord

[upper cove]

[sour oasis]

What community? For PvP this was it. ALM is fairly new. ||If you don't count the collaboration chats.||

[candid sluice]

I meant the old community I wasn’t around for that long

[sour oasis]

Ban🔨d

[candid sluice]

What happened

[sour oasis]

I forget. But half the pinned messages are from users who are now banned from ALO. (The rest can be split between 'formerly played' and 'corroborator')

I think Zack was flagged for off topic in this channel and Daxam talked about PvP in Gameplay Help?

[candid sluice]

Damn that’s sad

Wait why is talking abt pvp in gph a bad thing lol

I see it all the time

[sour oasis]

Mod🔨 too OP

Mod🔨 grew soft

||Watch me get banned||

Guess they relaxed the restrictions the more the game went on (or the amount of new players slowed)

[candid sluice]

They should unban those players change my mind

[sour oasis]

Ping them and see if they still play

[candid sluice]

It’s been over a year

[trail temple]

Probably why pvp has gotten harder to get those thicc scores. HoolooVoo left some time ago iirc

[candid sluice]

What were the bug boy scores back in the day? 3000+?

[mint hornet]

2605-8?

2600+ barring server issues

[candid sluice]

Ha jokes on you I sandbag in amagi server

[trail temple]

Those were the days

Now I just sit somewhere in the top 50

[sour oasis]

Why did Hoo leave again? Just focusing on another game?

[mint hornet]

Think he said too many games and had to drop 1

[sour oasis]

That's kinda what I remembered. Man, my brain is older than I think it is.

[mint hornet]

[coral wren]

Is the pvp tierlist updated?

[candid sluice]

Not really

[unkempt nymph]

Umm.. is there a PvP Tierlist?

I'm absolutely clueless about how to efficiently do PvP with the ships that I've got. Could someone suggest some possibly decent fleets? Here's my top levelled ships atm:

Kinda new on this account.

[abstract cypress]

just put ur highest lvl ships

[unkempt nymph]

Uhh... Any tips to maximise rankings also at the same time? Like CAs aren't generally preferred for PvP, I think?

[candid sluice]

For now u just wanna use the highest lvl ships u have before you can dedicate raising a ship for pvp

[candid sluice]

I wouldn’t worry abt rankings at your stage in the game, just play your exercises regularly and try to attack leftmost player for maximum points and get those juicy rank merit rewards

And hidden pvp mechanics are in pins u can check them out there

[unkempt nymph]

Hmm... Okay. Been doing that so far. Guess I'll just worry about ranking later.

[next oxide]

Fully upgraded chapayev+aurora+swiftsure.....will I kill DDs faster this way? Via by homing TB/BB salvos?

[elder crane]

Ye Aurora back when was actually a meta ship since the only non-CL/DD vanguard that was good was saint louis, she's squishy herself but also makes their DD/CL much more squishy

Swiftsure not very good in PvP since her debuff is only single-target

Chappy's base gun-cl platform is okay but not particularly good for PvP (at least not paper survivability?), and few teams run more than one DD
If you're fine with that then okay

Aimed torps is not hitting vanguard anywhere near reliably without a full stop effect
BB shots at least need a fairly strong slow

[elder crane]

What York said, 10 levels >> meta ships
In terms of what you can try to do soonish, level Juneau, level Hiryuu, get Formidable once event rerun starts and eventually pair with Centaur
Trying to RNG Helena could be a good strat for now to take wins vs better teams
Other good vanguards to look out for are Suzutsuki, Yukikaze, Noshiro, Sirius (if you run 2-3 CV)
In terms of equipment, try to get from collection rewards damage control manjuu, beaver badge, washington naval treaty or aviation pioneer, pearl's tears

[thin cosmos]

aurora now good enough to consider as attaking force. There might be azuma, but with AP shell with good light armor bonus like 457 twin, you can do a lot damage for all VG.

I've tested french starting fire decs, FDG wars 3BB and not that bad as we think

around 70% win rate I think for FDG 3BB, about 50% with french but it's due to I have suzu so it's hard counter for them

[next oxide]

Thanks for the replies seniors :D

[tough dirge]

poopa

list just appeared like that. usually its like 57-94 or something fairly close

[candid sluice]

Is the score gap still 35 to get a +1 in lower ranks?

[mint hornet]

no, gap of 35 only starts once you're over 1050 points

think it's captain rank?

[candid sluice]

Okay that makes sense

So what’s the gap for lower ranks?

[elder crane]

No one knooooows

For right before admiral ranks iirc is 32

[candid sluice]

[sour oasis]

First try to use PvP to raise levels without using oil. Winning fleets gets you the full xp from the combined levels, but some fleets are too weak to give anything while others are too strong to beat (but they give 50% xp from a loss).
Once you can tackle the stronger defense fleets, work to win all 15 daily exercises (even if it means fighting a weaker or lower rank fleet for an easy win) to reach the merit rewards so you can get more shop goods.
Worry about rankings when you're able to beat full level 120 fleets.

The meta is currently in a flux, so what you start to level up now might not be great by the time you max them out. The constants in the meta game have been Juneau (rare) and Hiryu (elite, drop-only) as they can stretch your survivability. Enterprise (super) is a worthy pick-up due to RNG shenanigans.

The best ships for PvP are mostly Research (PR or DR) and event-locked ships. But you can make up a winning fleet without them using maximized equipment, maximized levels, maximized skills, and restarting fights and hoping for RNG. (Which make even Eldridge or Helena or Ranger viable, even if they're not highly tiered)

[pure smelt]

how good are french in pvp

i havent checked since riche was rekeased

[elder crane]

Richi is good, the rest are respectable but that's about it

[trail temple]

By French you mean Riche and Sanrui?

[elder crane]

JdA probably not close to being in meta anymore, basically ever since Shinano
Sanrui been powercreeped since Azuma basically

If you have four vanguard slot and Richi in team she makes it maybe

[trail temple]

Only reason I run Richi on Washy is because I have no Nagato

[pure smelt]

lol

[uncut agate]

I run Richy because my vanguard is too weak, she has to carry them

[trail temple]

I want to test my USN fleet though once they're close to 120

[pure smelt]

also are bb shellers bad now? I think barragers are probably still fine

[thin cosmos]

the question is what is that "fine"?

[pure smelt]

or like are there any shellers in meta

[thin cosmos]

so many possible fines

if you tell me what is your fine I can say

[pure smelt]

anything that can win

vs top fleets

[thin cosmos]

if you say about win with try at attacking, quite a lot

[trail temple]

I mean, you can with almost anything just by resetting

[uncut agate]

Manjuu Juneau will win you torp fleets

[pure smelt]

yes I know this

[trail temple]

and you also have attacker advantage

Main reason I still use a BB in my fleet is for the buff she provides, other than that I could easily just slot in another cv

[pure smelt]

is warspite still top

[thin cosmos]

I have some video recording of some BB decs

[coral wren]

In some situation yes

[thin cosmos]

btw warspite were almost always worse than FDG

[coral wren]

one of the best combi for warspite in pvp

amagi/fdg/warkai
richy/amagi/warkai
richy/fdg/warkai
monarch/howe/warkai

[trail temple]

is warspite still top
@pure smelt No, not really. Her ability to snipe CVs like Hiryuu and Enterprise is gone due to the new mechanic (remember her first shot is her most devastating). At best she can target a BB/BC/BBV or take a pot shot at the vg. With Perseus however she does get her gimmick back but now you have a ship that won't do anything for pretty much the rest of the game

[candid sluice]

Warkai’s dominance in pvp has been drastically reduced because of the new cv detection system

Like Asian said, she used to hit CVs hard like hiryuu and procs her final counter early on

But now she can’t do that at the beginning of the game

By no means is she bad now, just not as powerful as before

I still use her for big shelling dmg (and bcus I don’t have nagato )

[trail temple]

F

[candid sluice]

Do triple bb fleets just hard lose to triple cv?

[trail temple]

Tbh I wanna say USN could be the budget meta fleet. All the components are in the gacha normally with some available on exchange and now PoW buffs them as well as buffing herself

[candid sluice]

^^ don’t underestimate enty too

[trail temple]

Do triple bb fleets just hard lose to triple cv?
@candid sluice Honestly depends on the outcome of the vg battle

I am gonna be doing PoW, Enty, Essex for my backline

Atm thinking of running juneau, helena, brem since I don't have Seattle

[candid sluice]

If triple bb can take out vanguard then they can win yeah?

[candid sluice]

Is full uss vanguard really necessary?

[trail temple]

Why not?

[radiant brook]

Might as well use Juneau/Minnie/sandy to stall

[thin cosmos]

hmmmmm

[trail temple]

Sandy is squishy, and Eldridge would probably make Juneau too durable

[candid sluice]

Minne is bad in pvp

[thin cosmos]

whatever you use use azuma if you have

[candid sluice]

Yeah Eldridge memes could be good but jun lives too long

[trail temple]

Brem also has increased AA + eva (from helena) when in rearguard

I don't have Azuma on washy

[candid sluice]

How deep into the fight can eld proc? 10 secs?

[trail temple]

Think it's once every 20

[thin cosmos]

every 20s 10s prolong

[candid sluice]

Yo that’s when CVs launch isn’t it

At the 20sec mark

[thin cosmos]

but it's not fixed but RNG

[candid sluice]

Yeah 15% proc chance

Could be funny on defense

[thin cosmos]

If it were fixed everyone would use it)))

but problem is this you can't win even with 1 perfect ignore of airstrikes

[candid sluice]

True true

But I wanna try it out anyway

[thin cosmos]

I had trouble with making up speed while keep Juneau and eld survive constantly

[trail temple]

eld is really slow ye

[thin cosmos]

you only have 6slot

[candid sluice]

I thought DDs were supposed to be fast

[uncut agate]

Eldridge is slow af

Historically she was a Destroyer-escort, not a DD

[thin cosmos]

she is slower than azuma. 25speed vs yuki 42 suzu 39

[trail temple]

^

azuma is base 27 iirc?

[thin cosmos]

yeah 26 or 27

[sour oasis]

JdA is still valuable as a strong counter if a defender timed everything into a single burst. It makes JdA super niche, but very effective in that regard.

[somber axle]

I wish everyone didn't die from mods, now this chat is a ghost of itself.

Who will update pvp guide now. 😦

[thin cosmos]

only VG fires enough to break that shield. I think rudder is more reliable counter cause it's the exact time if we use beacon with oathed ships. That's my major concern about beacon.

[thin cosmos]

what's mod? I'm new in discord and I feel here is much more active than any community I had.

[somber axle]

We had this discussion 1-2 days ago but I was away. Basically all the old PVP people got modded for "reasons".

It used to be a lot more active.

Blue is sole survivor, everyone else post maybe once every PVP season max.

[thin cosmos]

mod is somekind of ban? I just don't know that word

[sour oasis]

Rudder has a specific timing. JdA can adapt to any build-up. But again, it's very specific.

Mod is shorthand for moderator.

[thin cosmos]

yes that's why we think she can't be meta

cause most meta ships fire not near 10s~15s, 30s~35s

however so many fires at 20s~22s, 40s~42s

[sour oasis]

What is meta but specific instances

[thin cosmos]

I have quite a lot data cause I could test vs controllable opponent. But I don't know how the tier and guide would made+English isn't my first language.

[thin cosmos]

sorry. can you rephrase?

[sour oasis]

Create it in your first language and let group translators fix everything else. Data collection is paramount, communication is secondary.

[candid sluice]

Yea if u already have the info u can put it together in your language

[thin cosmos]

I already have it in my server cafe

[candid sluice]

Maybe explain it the best u can in English here and we could give a better explanation in English

[candid sluice]

Where is that?

[thin cosmos]

but so many don't agree even with video)))

[candid sluice]

Do u mind sharing it?

[sour oasis]

Meta is having the proper counters for specific set ups. Rock beats scissors beats paper. There are a lot more useful combinations in PvP 2021 than there have been before. It's nice to know a specific hard counter even if it only works once.

[thin cosmos]

I didn't test USS BBs and CVs

[sour oasis]

Especially with tier creation. Higher tiered ships are reliable in multiple situations. Lower tiered ships are unreliable (more RNG involvement) or are reliable in singular situations. Untiered ships in no situations.

[thin cosmos]

yeah in that case I have quite clear vision

but soon it can be changed with OOOOOOPPPP wyvern

[candid sluice]

And +13 equips

[trail temple]

Even with beacon, you're still outside the rudder time frame, at worst hitting it on the last tick of rudder (Shinano definitely does not). When we have Wyverns it will make it less of an issue, if it was one to begin with

[thin cosmos]

yes it is and I think it's quite important at RNG based try

anyway the way I test is this

[elder crane]

The only thing JdA hard counters is foxes

And their potential resurgence never happened

She's a solid option vs Namagi, but isn't even optimal there for most all teams, much less counter

And is actively kinda bad vs CV focused teams tbh

[thin cosmos]

find player whom I know, hit and run 5~10times. count win rate and also see how the battle goes. Change dec and try. Record all

[elder crane]

For 3BB you 100% need to win vanguard fight ye, gotta have some way of doing that
Richi or PoW aren't terrible choices given what's available

[sour oasis]

Also torpedoes and preloaded volleys. Essentially any front-heavy team. (Which there are fewer of, but they exist and restarting a fight gets tedious sometimes.)

[thin cosmos]

the barrage is quite strong for removing stealth. FDG+Richi only could make about 70% of bar. and stealth removed by 17s barrage of richi. They could kill my shinano before 2nd strike near 38s

[elder crane]

JdA shield isn't active until 10 s in so she ain't countering true frontloaded stuff
Or specifically if it's frenchies she's pretty shit since low speed means vanguard gets nailed more often

[thin cosmos]

her shield must be at the 10s. so how could her be counter for starting damage?

[elder crane]

Not sure what's up there but never had that problem lol
For offense it's also super unreliable
Richi only barrages 75% and FdG is only about that too to set a fire per barrage
For 3 fires it's under 1/3 chance basically

[thin cosmos]

I will show you video

[elder crane]

Just checking, you are running WNT right? And ofc IJN for her buff and 120/200 yadayada

[thin cosmos]

it will take some for upload

[elder crane]

Even Nagato only very rarely gets focused down

[thin cosmos]

I'm talking about my defense IJN vs offense 3BB

I have 0 problem when attacking

[elder crane]

Ehh then it's literally under 50% RNG to early destealth Shinano

I'd take those odds, you're defense after all

[sour oasis]

I find JdA makes my life easier against torpedoes at aft (with Juneau and Ellie Repair in front). I can't take restarting 10+ times (with Azuma or Noshiro or Yukikaze at aft) because of unfavorable RNG.

[thin cosmos]

I expect their less than 20% win rate like namaryuu but they are stronger than it vs nanoryuu. That's what I wanted to say

[elder crane]

Do torps need restarting against ever anymore

[sour oasis]

What's your secret

[trail temple]

I am not running bulges anymore

[elder crane]

Not sure what you mean, comparing Namano to Namaryuu or Nanoryuu defense vs 3 BB offense?

[elder crane]

Lead DCP Juneau, WNT, never seen anyone die to torps early

[trail temple]

I also have Noshiro for added insurance (ykkz benched and suzu not levelled)

[sour oasis]

Ah. I'm not too fond of WNT. I want my fights over within a minute. (Which is also why I 3 CV with Frontier Medal)

[elder crane]

Fatass Azuma trailing can munch a few torps no problem and Jun can just absorb them all

Only very rarely do I go over 1 min anyways

WNT just reduces RNG so much

Imo worth it from that time save

[sour oasis]

Doesn't WNT reduce everyone's damage? How does that not increase clear time beyond 1 minute?

[thin cosmos]

namaryuu has really bad win rate vs nanoryuu. compare to that 3BB do better. Ofcourse if we compare 3BB and nanoryuu, naoaryuu is stronger

[elder crane]

Ye, it reduces rng
Less burst = every hit matters less = things even out

[elder crane]

Ye it's literally the team but worse and without some way of RNG to make up for it

[sour oasis]

I'll have to try WNT instead of (alongside?) Frontier.

[elder crane]

WNT and Frontier are exclusive

Unless one person runs each

[sour oasis]

I will miss the added damage of FM if indeed WNT works with my Navy.

[elder crane]

Tbh I prefer WNT for 3 CV
Dmg output I feel like was never the issue w the team, when the strikes launch, shit gets murdered
The issue is getting there before fight is already over

Feels a lot like the "just wait til I get to 10 Mana!"

[thin cosmos]

that's why 457 twin is OP

[elder crane]

For offense Namano is turning out surprisingly well
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised tho since on defense the team always seems to narrowly lose lol
So with offense advantage turns to wins a lot just often somewhat narrowly

Esp like every other time I go up vs Hiryuu it ends with 1 HP Hiryuu vs vanguard in her face

[tough dirge]

yes the 5x proc oath enty i keep having to retry to

enty my first 120 since i started playing and always has been irreplaceable

[thin cosmos]

I never used her at PVP

[elder crane]

Ah good ole 2k18 enty mirrors

I remember that one time ended up Enty vs Enty with nonstop lucky E both sides
I won by fighter intercept chip dmg lol

[thin cosmos]

that's crazy bad!

[elder crane]

Took like 2 mins

Still better than ykkz vs ykkz back when rest of team wasn't good enough to deal w her tho

[sour oasis]

I had a Lucky E-off that lasted 5 minutes. Learned that even in a draw, you lose.

[somber axle]

Enty is still a problem? Everytime I see Enty, she gets rekt by Azuma.

[elder crane]

Nah she hasn't been a problem in two yrs

*for established players

Hence why I said back in 2k18

[thin cosmos]

yeah now it's somekind of icon of unskilled pvp dec

[sour oasis]

Went up against the all USS backline: Enterprise Essex Intrepid. There were problems reaching them...

[somber axle]

I'm not using WNT either, Nagato is running HPFCR instead. She also dies first most of the time.

[thin cosmos]

just enty itself

she counters it self so hard)))

[elder crane]

Every time I remember ykkz vs ykkz I still get salty
Worst match was back in Namaryuu before PR1
Literally
Like 70% avg HP main and a half HP ykkz vs enemy nearly full ykkz, rest of their team ded
And I watch in morbid fasciation as his ykkz proceeds to dodge everything and kill my main through torps

And ofc another time where the only time I've been beyond 2 min on timer was ykkz vs ykkz slapfight

[somber axle]

With CV patch, everyone BB snipes my Nagato instead.

So she actually dies before even vanguards now.

[elder crane]

Ye I swapped back to WNT+Beaver

Also part of why I prefer running ykkz again

[thin cosmos]

about that It's quite tricky

[somber axle]

Not sure WNT is worth it, mostly because Nagato carries 457. I'll try swapping items around once everyone is maxed.

[thin cosmos]

I've tested suzu yuki, flag, HPFCR, Beaver, rudder and all has pros and cons

even for same mirror match, the best setting is different for attacker and defender

so just too many possiblity to say about what is better

[elder crane]

I mean we still don't have wyvern yet and stuff is only very slowly being +13

So who knoooows

[thin cosmos]

yes

so test for now can't get enough payback compare to hardness

[trail temple]

I am still using twin 406s with Nagato

[thin cosmos]

broad knowledge of tier list of some major dec would be enough for now

[trail temple]

@elder crane Mind confirming something for me regarding rudder timers? Is it at the 20 second mark that rudder procs or the 21st second?

[upper cove]

It's at 20s, but the 20s mark is at the exact frame that the game rolls the clock from :40 to :39

Or :20 to :19 or :00 to :59

[thin cosmos]

there would be 1s deleay

at pvp

[upper cove]

Delay doesn't affect skills

[thin cosmos]

sure? I don't think so

[west ibex]

Why the pvp point i get sometimes 14 sometimes 15 and sometimes 17

What causing it?

[upper cove]

It affects weapons, not the skills

It happens in pve as well

[upper cove]

Point difference, you get bonus if you fight someone far enough ahead of you

[west ibex]

I see, thanks

Btw what the max point u can get per battle?

17?

[thin cosmos]

depends on your rank

can be 34 at the start day

[upper cove]

Start of the season*

[west ibex]

The higher ur rank the lower u get?

[thin cosmos]

while very hard to get 12 after admiral comes

yes

[upper cove]

The max points you could get from any match tho is 2x-1 where x is the base score gain for that rank

[west ibex]

I see, thanks sir

[thin cosmos]

thx krazy, that was helpful info

with this video, still rudder can work some as my frame checking

one question is the activation of skill isn't at the start of each second but middle of second, so I wonder why..

[upper cove]

Korean

Anyways you got like a time stamp or something to specifically point to

[thin cosmos]

yeah but picture shows

[upper cove]

I watched the first match but the 20s mark was just lag

[thin cosmos]

does lag do damage at popping image?

[upper cove]

Er

What

Lag only affects things visually for the most part, the game still runs itself almost exactly like it wasn't lagging, it just doesn't look right

The exceptions are some barrages

Lag can make barrages come out weirdly

[thin cosmos]

and since we can see only video, so it's important

So for example, azuma picture start to pop up at near 20.5 second

in this case, her skill activation start at 20second or 20.5?

[upper cove]

The box that pops up with skill activation takes time to show up ya

It popped at 20

[thin cosmos]

oh so the real game and viewing game have some difference

since the skill effect also have 0.5 second deday(becoming blue)

in that case, the bombing explode quite safely after 22s.

Now the problem is the real bombing also comes at same time or the real bombing is 0.5s faster

[upper cove]

Nah the blue happens at 20s

The animation for turning blue that is

Cause that animation takes time too

[thin cosmos]

I meant animation of becoming blue. I had to say skill showing effect

so only question is bombing also have lag on video or not

if all showing have same lag, there would be no difference in result

[upper cove]

Bombs are already difficult enough even when not considering things like ship movement or the fact that they have to fall

[thin cosmos]

about boming I could calculate it so ok for me

just can I trust timing of bombing in video or should count 0.5 second delay matter

[upper cove]

You should try to see when bombs land in the video and compare it to the clock

Rudder is 2 seconds iirc

[thin cosmos]

some bombs explode before 22.5

but almost no bomb before 22

[upper cove]

Ya bombs don't come down all at once

[thin cosmos]

so those bombs explode at 22.5second in video, would explode at 22.5 in real game also?

or the video is just delayed so exploded at 22second?

[upper cove]

If you can keep track of it, bombs explode at the same time that the game removes the image of the bomb off your screen

[thin cosmos]

and?

[upper cove]

That's it

[thin cosmos]

hmmmm

[upper cove]

The actual bomb itself falls until a certain point, it goes through whatever functions It needs to to explode, and is deleted off the screen at the same time

[thin cosmos]

so you mean there's no video delay for bombing like skill activation?

[upper cove]

Ya as soon as the bomb disappears, which might be hard to see with so much shit on your screen, the explosion has happened

[thin cosmos]

ok solved

it's quite fun that some effects have lag, some effects don't have lag

if so beacon is quite safe from rudder

[upper cove]

It's less lag and more like skills have animations that take time to show up and other things don't really

[thin cosmos]

thx a lot

[trail temple]

Is there a way to quantify the distance between the 2 backlines in a pvp match?

[candid sluice]

Plane speed?

[trail temple]

You'd need a stop watch for that, which I've done but I'm not happy with the level of accuracy

[thin cosmos]

you can count it by frame

video players have 1frame movement option

[radiant brook]

Can you get a win if your last ship sinks the last enemy ship within the 8 seconds of manjuu activating?

[thin cosmos]

?

oh yes you can get

[radiant brook]

Manjuu procs -> you are not long for this world -> you killed the last enemy

[thin cosmos]

it counted as survived

[radiant brook]

Reminds me of swan song from payday 2

Oh nice

[candid sluice]

Yes you get the win

It’s like final counter proc

[radiant brook]

Dosen't final counter just leaves you at one health? And not killing you when invincibility wears off

[candid sluice]

Not at one

Doesn’t count the dmg that finishes you off

[thin cosmos]

so that's really really nice item

1of critical reason for removing torp meme

[coarse hearth]

Guy
If im using Elite Eagle Damage Control on Enty
Would that make her more invincible ?

[candid sluice]

No

Don’t put it on enty

[coarse hearth]

I see, since it only work on USS

But i heard it not wise to keep junuea outlast

I wonder who else is pvp meta that could use this aux equip
Other than juneau

[safe meteor]

she gonna sink after 8 seconds

[coarse hearth]

That martyr skill still proc even she not sink yet?

[safe meteor]

not anymore

it was on day 1

[thin cosmos]

people too much trust her tanking...

[safe meteor]

who? Juneau or Enty?

[thin cosmos]

juneau

[coarse hearth]

Alright. one more thing,
does nagato barrage hit the enemy carrier
if they still in their stealth mode ? (That CV bar thingy)

[thin cosmos]

y

but do not expect it can do some damage

[coarse hearth]

Alright. How bout this
Does Hyugakai seaplane enough to fillup the CV stealth bar?

[safe meteor]

yea, they can be hit, but not targetted by anything, Nagato barrage doesnt target

i dont plan to put Hyuuga anywhere near my pvp teams

[thin cosmos]

that bars not that weak

also depends on how much CV at opponents as I see

[sour oasis]

The bars I thought only weaken from fighters, fire, the CV launching a wave, or vanguard reaching?

So even if barrage, random torpedo hits, stealth bar doesn't weaken (unless fire was caused)

[thin cosmos]

yes

[safe meteor]

do you use 1 or 2 CV in pvp?

[thin cosmos]

but not just fighter but all plane end of screen damage

hiryuu barrage is TB and they can fill the bar

[thin cosmos]

about barrage, it can fill bar

[sour oasis]

Is there a difference in plane type and bar fill rate?

[thin cosmos]

I don't know

never tried to test

[sour oasis]

Without fire, really?

[thin cosmos]

sec

I have image

this is 4:56

and you can see already more than 70% bar

[safe meteor]

oh that is interesting to try

so FdG + Richelieu is a good setup to do that?

[thin cosmos]

they had about 70% win rate

[safe meteor]

oh, thats not that high then

i guess

[sour oasis]

Looks like... Shinano started an airstrikes just as Richelieu set her on fire

[safe meteor]

you win 70 if Richelieu barrage procs?

[thin cosmos]

it's really high cause nanoryuu also have similar win rate vs my dec

[sour oasis]

Amagi barrage would probably do less bar raise (no fire)

[safe meteor]

i got better winrate with Nagato, Shinano, Hiryuu

i think maybe 85%, counting only against any non meme fleets

i count KMS fleet as a meme fleet

[thin cosmos]

my test condition is very solid

[safe meteor]

do you just reset for Richelieu barrage proc though?

[thin cosmos]

I only count full 120/200 decs with best equip

[safe meteor]

i cant really see equips though

unless you mean when they have really low stats that they obviously arent geared

[thin cosmos]

let me keep talk)

the condition is this

right side is my dec

So I know what's setting at there

left side is my friend

we tried some decs when can meet at exercise random matching

[safe meteor]

what does dec stand for?

[thin cosmos]

testing defense power and also attacking power

most of meme fleets have shitty setting

specially for here, so not all same 6ships really same..

there are more gaps than attacker buff between same decs

[safe meteor]

20% atk buff was it

[thin cosmos]

and oath and proper gear is more than that

[safe meteor]

also i wonder, if vanguards fight closer to your side, does that make spotting your carriers easier?

[thin cosmos]

sure

so attacker have less than 20% advantage if you use CV decs

[safe meteor]

i think still a big advantage, until you get spotted

actually, if you have more BB, you got even more advantage

[thin cosmos]

attacker have more than 20% advantage if you use BB due to shorter distance

[safe meteor]

yea

[thin cosmos]

I have full video

[safe meteor]

oh?

[thin cosmos]

all these files only for excercise record of this kind of after patch

but they are too big

in size

[safe meteor]

no plans on making youtube vid or something?

[thin cosmos]

infact I shared quite a lot in here

seems you were not here at that time

[safe meteor]

yea i think i did saw it a while ago

if you mean testing different planes?

[thin cosmos]

this is kind of suzu vs yuki

[safe meteor]

i think someone here had most succes with Barracuda, instead of like 818 swordfish

oh i see

Yuki not in backmost position though?

[thin cosmos]

if we combine some test, this is quite the best

when I put yuki at side, I lost some at attacking

but at middle, 8win 0 lose

but yes it can't be 100% due to too high RNG

also I changed some minor setting like AA gun

this is 3BB but he has only 1 rainbow gun

[safe meteor]

whats causes the loss?

[thin cosmos]

I think it's really big but eventhough he has quite good win rate

suzu!

[safe meteor]

Azuma is most import to keep alive?

or against what enemies?

i think Yukikaze is gonna be really good to keep alive most vs carriers

[thin cosmos]

yes but it's just your desire

[safe meteor]

and Azuma vs BB?

[thin cosmos]

RNG is too huge

[safe meteor]

ah yea

but i though if you taking 100 bullets

[thin cosmos]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AU3j6bgMxEKguckCiukRyLySa-jOMMFg/view?usp=sharing

[safe meteor]

on average, you should only take 75 of those, and reduce the other 25

[thin cosmos]

azuma center

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nueteiPNVUKbgyZzTGkcoudyXUg7pP0B/view?usp=sharing

[safe meteor]

no fire surpressor on Yukikaze?

(also i almost thought someone pinging me, but it's the vid)

[thin cosmos]

there are some minor diffrence between videos

but we really can't determine that tiny change cause too many settings to be tested and need more than 20 try to get enough output

[safe meteor]

Barracuda and the 4% faster airstirke better on Hiryuu better?

i always had the feeling that Hiryu gonna be often in the last stand vs the backline, and want Ryusei for that

or maybe i should equip Shinano with 818 or something to get Hiryuu more consistent Ryusei dmg

are those tested?

[thin cosmos]

I never think it can be good

[safe meteor]

i got no real idea what the best plane loadout is

[thin cosmos]

ryu is really old topic since from Akaga age

and I tested a lot at that time and cuda only is my pick

in case you left full hp 1ship, ryu is absolutely better

but what if you left 3ships with very tiny hp?

even in the situation after VG gone, you have a lot of chance of targetting too much at low hp ship

[safe meteor]

ah i see

guess i should try Barracuda some more

to increase my winrate some more

btw, do you think we can make a fleet with like Nagato, 1 carrier, 1 BB/BC?

Hiryuu kai or Shinano, who is better ?

and then would Amagi or FdG be good instead of a 2nd carrier?

im so used to running Nagato + Hiryuu kai and Shinano

i should try other fleets as well

[thin cosmos]

bluerender is using nagato+amagi shinano

[safe meteor]

at least i used Warkai, FdG, Amagi before the carrier system

any succes?

[thin cosmos]

it's not so far from this chat

maybe today or yesterday

[safe meteor]

ok, lemme scroll up

reminds me, any luck getting Wyvern?

is the pvp most dedicated getting their hands on their first Wyvern?

[thin cosmos]

I can't understand what you mean

[coarse hearth]

Guys
If chinawall fleet most tankiest in pve, why they arent meta in pvp ?

[uncut agate]

Our ships have high enough accuracy to shoot them down pretty quick (plus their stats are really bad), so they don't have much staying power or attack power for PvP meta

[coarse hearth]

Demn, forgot that pvp have that kind of buff

[thin cosmos]

yeah so many people think they are strong enough))

[elder crane]

Highest enemy hit stat normally is ch11 HM and some op siren Abyss bosses, at 100ish hit

Player ships used in PvP with only a few exceptions start at 100, with most of the best in the range of 150-200

[candid sluice]

Is 914 10/10 good or bad?

[sacred heath]

sounds like you're doing fine

[candid sluice]

Ok nice

Ran into a brick wall this reset

[tough dirge]

how do i beat

[candid sluice]

Mirror and pray

They have jun in middle pos

[tough dirge]

i dont have that much money to be willing to spend rn

[sour oasis]

Tried WNT over FM. Wow, front damage is not a factor.
FM boosts my 3 CV, and assuming my vanguard doesn't die in 30s (3/5), victory was 51-53s.
WNT debuffs my 3 CV (and everyone else) but my VG never died in 5 tries and victory was always about 65s.
Did one fight without FM or WNT (VG barely survived 35s) and won in 55s.
I will gladly take this 15% speed penalty for fewer restarts.

[sour oasis]

Do you have those ships at those levels and maximized stats? (if you're going to mirror)

The oath doesn't matter much as long as your ships Love you. You could even use torpedo ships to KO their Azuma at the start.

[tough dirge]

oh

this is what i got

[sour oasis]

They're putting Azuma at front tank, so you can try to take her out right away.

[uncut agate]

Try JB.
I generally take out that vanguard with Richelieu pretty easily

[sour oasis]

Amagi, Enterprise, Jean Bart + Ibuki, Helena, Yukikaze...?
You'd be hoping JB and Ibuki melt Azuma, then hope Helena radar activates so you can plow through with Lucky E.

The biggest pain is if Nagato barrages you to death, the next big pain is if Juneau lives to long and heals backline (prolonging Hiryu)

[tough dirge]

rly dude

[sour oasis]

Enty like it's 2018

[tough dirge]

idk it just worked but it loaded finally

thanks

points glitched i had to restart

[rough depot]

Are there any changes for the suggested Tier Fleet? We do have a new mechanic for Carriers so I believe some those list have been nerfed?

[somber axle]

Don't run 3 BB, Shinano is meta now. But to be fair, she was meta even before CV changes. That's about it.

[radiant brook]

Can hiryuu proc final counter twice if she gets healed when invincibility is up?

[uncut agate]

No, it's once per battle

[rough depot]

So Namagi FDG and NamaWarKai are not meta anymore? They used to be T0.

[radiant brook]

They can't target CV

[somber axle]

You need a carrier in your backline to uncover other carriers. That or Riche/FDG burn. So don't run 3 BB

You can try those comps but good luck if you run into Shinano/Hiryuu comp

[candid sluice]

Is there even a way for triple bb to detect triple cv aside from vanguard annihilation?

Do fires/non aimed barrages fill up the gauge?

[thin cosmos]

check my chat some above

[shy hazel]

u in the wrong channel if u want real pvp talk

go join that discord

[trail temple]

If you use richy as a guide: her barrage alone will damage but not increase the gauge, her burn however will raise the bar by a third. But yeah I believe Novo did mention this some time ago (too lazy to read any of the immediate stuff)

[candid sluice]

Alright thanks for confirmation

I don’t have my own richy to test

[trail temple]

I used Richy because of her burn proc is pretty decent on the barrage

[unkempt nymph]

This made a lot of sense. As you mentioned, I'm using PvP basically as a means to gain "free" exp. Will worry about the rankings later, I guess. Thanks a lot for these tips!

[unkempt nymph]

What about monarch/warkai/formi?

And is monarch not a good choice for PvP?

[coral wren]

Feels like formi is kinda out of place there, she's a support for torpedo bombers and she isnt not supporting anyone on that fleet

[coral wren]

She is good in pvp but with new CV meta pvp fleet she got downgraded

Warspite got a little bit downgraded too in pvp meta because u cant easily snipe CV's anymore with the new stealth feature

Just use the foxes if u have them or the bunnies, together with warspite or nagato if u have them. I think thats the best easy to build fleet for pvp

tho the best one is Shinano/Nagato/Hiryuu Kai for backline fleet

For vanguard just do yukikaze/azuma/neptune/sanrui/noshiro

[unkempt nymph]

Hmm... Well, my options are pretty limited. Hadn't really invested into foxes/bunnies yet. Just tryna raise Hiryuu now. Was asking about formi 'cause I got her yesterday. These are the highest level ships that I've got right now. Btw, I'm kinda newbie, and so don't have a lot of good ships. These are my current options:

[unkempt nymph]

Like centaur?

[coral wren]

Yep

Are you looking for a fleet where formi fits?

[unkempt nymph]

Any suggestions from the ships that I've got? Was running Enty/monarch/warkai-portkai/Laffeykai/yukikaze till now.

[unkempt nymph]

If that works out with what I've got, yes.

[candid sluice]

@thin cosmos already tied using formi centaur shinano torpmemes but it underperformed

Enty is a great ship u can pick up easy wins if she procs

Even I still use her to this day

And you want to eventually raise hiryuu if u plan to pvp for ranking, tho her yellow skill you can ignore if not using with her sister

With what you have enty Essex warspite isn’t a bad backline, and yukikaze helena + someone else is a solid front

Of course you want to pump up their limit breaks and levels

[coral wren]

Yes I would also go with Essex/warkai/enty
just make sure u have a solid front cuz enty kinda slow to launch her planes

[candid sluice]

Alternatively you could replace warspite with Sara to go full cv dominance and pick up wins against bb fleets

If you’re doing that you could throw in sirius for those spicy cv buffs

[unkempt nymph]

Essex that good for PvP? Cause of her backline buff? Will level up hiryuu Kai as well, along with all those others you mentioned. I wanna go with 1 BB 2CV for now, I guess. Maybe will change to full CV later. Thanks!

[candid sluice]

Essex is just an amazing cv overall, her blue skill is also a nice bonus

1bb 2cv is a good balance esp with the ships u already have

[unkempt nymph]

Great! Thanks again. Will see how it works out. Don't have any purins to spare atm and so Essex might languish at 80 for a while. :/ Going with warkai/Enty/Sarakai for now. Will change later

[candid sluice]

Yeah just keep doing what you’re doing until you can pump up levels and limit breaks

[unkempt nymph]

Also, I shouldn't focus on hiryuu's yellow skill if I'm keeping her only for PvP, right?

[candid sluice]

After you’ve got a solid comp leveled you can start worrying abt rank

[candid sluice]

Nope no need

Mines is still at lvl 1 lol

[unkempt nymph]

Yeah, I guess. Just got a lil enthusiastic.

[candid sluice]

Unless of course you’re using her with souryuu
Also work on leveling juneau the Jesus of pvp, and if u can go for the aux equipment from collection (Washington naval treaty, frontier medal, nelson flag, damage control manjuu) it will definitely help u out

Btw if anything i type is contradictory to what Blue says then disregard mines and take his advice instead he’s been here since forever and knows much more than me

[unkempt nymph]

Well, I have Juneau at lvl 1 only. Wasn't aware of her sacrificial importance in PvP until recently. If I do level her up, who would she replace in a Yuki/Helena/Laffeykai vg? Trying for the collection rewards as well.

Btw, who's Blue?

Not using bunnies in PvE, at least not anytime soon.

[uncut agate]

Juneau would replace Laffey

Get the damage control aux from collection and you can use her with low levels. Max out her skill Martyr

[candid sluice]

Bluerendar, he knows a lot abt pvp

And yes juneau should eventually replace laffey

[unkempt nymph]

Okay, gotcha.

[thin cosmos]

juneau is only ship can compare with azuma with necessity imo

she just can make every combo without here is easy for now

[elder crane]

Ye Vanguard is basically Jun+Azuma+Your choice or be much less effective

[unkempt nymph]

Sounds great.

Btw, is there any CA (other than Azuma or any other PR/DR) which is good and recommend for PvP?

[uncut agate]

Sanrui is good

Ibuki pretty rng

[unkempt nymph]

But that's still PR and I only have Monarch atm.

[radiant brook]

Monarch is pretty underrated imo, her barrage can wipe her opposite lane (if the opposite team isn't running 3 CV)

[candid sluice]

There aren’t really that many great CA options since pvp mechanics buff the the least

[thin cosmos]

well barrage ignore stealth

matter is rather the damage

[unkempt nymph]

Oh, right. Forgot about that. Remember reading it once.

[elder crane]

The issue is stealth prevents follow-up dmg
Doesn't matter if ship is 100% HP or 10% HP, they still do the same damage

[elder crane]

Ehh, all BB/C main fleet run rudder, Monarch takes minimum 2 barrages to kill, and ofc 70% is
She's defs not bad, just not the best option available, tho ofc not everyone has the better options

[thin cosmos]

what I wanted to say is just her damage is too low for pvp meta of now.

[elder crane]

Oh, fair enough, ye

[tough dirge]

there he is again

[crude mortar]

easy fleet

[rich escarp]

I finally broke rear admiral for the first time ever. Thanks pvp-chat!

[trail temple]

📠

Sweating loads over that HMS perseus team with my shinaryuu team

Those preloads almost destroyed me

[abstract cypress]

after few test i think junkers+banana is better than helldiver+Ju-87 on grafzep

those bastards lie to me

mb i should go messerschmit+helldiver+wyvern

[candid sluice]

Graf

[coral wren]

Which figher plane should I equip to hiryuukai for pvp?

[uncut agate]

Sea Hornet

[crude jetty]

and bara

also

is the blue aux still good with the new cv meta?

[abstract cypress]

its not like everyone will use full cv

[coral wren]

im debating between hornet and tigercat

[abstract cypress]

power = hornet>cat

[candid sluice]

Hornet better

Faster flight speed

[abstract cypress]

cheaper = cat>>>>hornet

the thing why bearcat exist

[candid sluice]

To bait people who don’t realize it sucks

[coral wren]

Im gonna equip my shinano a sea hornet and a ryuusei so she can pop the enemy backline

Tho im thinking if Vf-17 is actually worth it for hiryuu together with shinano for more anti air in pvp and equip her with baracuda rather than ryuusei to destroy the frontline fleet

[crude jetty]

I run ryu + bara on shinano and hornet + bara on hiryuu

[unkempt nymph]

SRL/formi/centaur
Ark/formi/centaur
Or
Formi/hood/centaur?

[crude jetty]

srl?

[unkempt nymph]

Or any other combo from these? Don't have hiryuukai yet.

Shangri-la

[crude jetty]

you have perseus?

[unkempt nymph]

Nope. Kinda new, so missed a shit-ton of event ships.

[crude jetty]

well... I keep missing centaur

rip me hahaha

for hms fleet, I wish I could run something like warkai perseus centaur

[unkempt nymph]

Ye.

[crude jetty]

yet I feel like everything is bad against nagato shinano hiryuu

[uncut agate]

Try (Warkai or Monarch)/Formi/Centaur

[unkempt nymph]

Well, this is on my alt.
Don't have warkai or monarch there

QE is there, though. If the faction buff is any use here.

[thin cosmos]

hard to pick one... too low hp and damage while not having preload...

try 2nd with helena and bet on your luck

you might be able to remove enemy VG in 1 strike

[unkempt nymph]

2nd? Didn't exactly get what you meant there. Tri CV with Yuki/Helena + another vg? Guess works for now, eh? Formi/Ark(or SRL)/Centaur

[thin cosmos]

y

Ark/formi/centaur

[unkempt nymph]

?

I thought I'd try that. No good?

[thin cosmos]

what I mean is that looks better between your suggestions

[coral wren]

Is Avigas/mic better than avigas/beacon for pvp?

[unkempt nymph]

Okay, cool.

[candid sluice]

Depends, do u want to nuke vanguard or outlaunch opposing CVs?

Blue seems to like mic more

[thin cosmos]

And I like depending crash damage with beacon more so it's quite your choice. both similar

[tough dirge]

i fail to understand why their vanguard like oneshots my vanguard entirely

just with torpedos

Plus they always hit my vanguard while my torps always miss

vs opponents

[uncut agate]

Their torps are very strong. 2.8k dmg without crit, 5-6k dmg with crit 👍

[coral wren]

ask torva whats his pvp gear xd

[tough dirge]

why?

[uncut agate]

You can put manjuu on Juneau to soak up the damage

[thin cosmos]

this is just impossible so I wonder your number of test

[tough dirge]

like 10 times?

not the first time i see this guy in pvp

also what's a manjuu

[uncut agate]

Manjuu:

[coral wren]

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/Eagle_Union_Elite_Damage_Control

[thin cosmos]

if so, I can't trust your definition of hiting by torp

show your vg setting then we can think some more

[tough dirge]

oh yeah I could get that one now if lb yorktown thanks

lets see

https://imgur.com/a/hhNA0fv this is what i was using. (helena/yukikaze/sandy)

[thin cosmos]

no!

[tough dirge]

my only viable replacements wouldve been portland or sanrui, i dont think laffey can replace well in pvp

Im trying to max more pvp meta based ships but its taking long

[thin cosmos]

yuki is good but should be tanking aux

and where is another 2?

[tough dirge]

in the link

[thin cosmos]

are there beaver at back side or no beaver?

[tough dirge]

no beaver, i dont have it yet

[thin cosmos]

if so I can understand now

[candid sluice]

Use wnt against torpmeme comps

And torp bulges

[thin cosmos]

your VG has serious problems

[candid sluice]

Double oxytorp ykk isn’t good

[tough dirge]

repair kits then i guess

[thin cosmos]

too slow to dodge torp, too low hp ships(sandy and helena both), no bulge for CL, no WNT,Flag, manjuu

[candid sluice]

Throw a bulge/boiler on her

Esp if you’re struggling against torpmeme

[tough dirge]

what's WNT mean?

also yeah i could try bulges they're helpful but i never really used them

[uncut agate]

Washington Naval Treaty

[tough dirge]

thanks

Ill try to get the collection gear*

[thin cosmos]

oh forgot about pearl also

[elder crane]

Yukikaze also just wants twin 100 mm
Well twin 114 would be best DpS but the +10 AA is better for her to die less

[thin cosmos]

+30AA

[tough dirge]

I got some of those yea

[elder crane]

114 mm is +20 AA

So it's +10 AA on top of that

[thin cosmos]

but he is using not 114

[tough dirge]

if i build her just on surviving she should be fine?

[thin cosmos]

infact all items sets quite bad specially for AA guns but I just didn't mention

[elder crane]

Yes and I'm saying
100 mm is best
While 114 mm (context: compared to 114 mm) would be more DpS, +10 AA (over running 114 mm) is better

Also be careful with ykkz vs torpmemes
That vanguard has something like 260 hit stat so ykkz iirc has less than 40% evasion rate vs them

So any torp that hits ykkz has basically 50/50 to take off half her HP

[tough dirge]

would torpedo bulge not work on yuki? or anything that increases evasion

also how can enemies deal so much torp damage, are they just using oxy torps

[uncut agate]

Yuki can't equip torp bulge, she's a DD

[tough dirge]

okay then

[thin cosmos]

a lot of buff

they are almost double times stronger than other ships without buff in same items

[gritty cove]

Mostly the crit chance doing work

[elder crane]

even without crits the torps do like 5k a pop from all the buffs + oxytorps

it's base 208 (?) dmg from 610 mm after all

[gritty cove]

206

[elder crane]

Noshiro Jint Naganami is +55% torp stat buff, which is basically aya buff
and you get crit chance/dmg on top of that

[thin cosmos]

and there's 15% damage buff in pvp for CL only

[tough dirge]

thats insane

youve all been great help btw, thanks a lot for helping me understanding a bit better

[elder crane]

Anyways that vanguard is really fragile itself in return

It needs to be able to cause havoc immediately or it almost certainly loses

Anything that reduces dmg output below the threshold where it can do that neuters its effectiveness

[mossy atlas]

so NoFlyZone+ does proc in both pvp and opsi

my seattle has just been kicking ass and tanking planes after the fs

[somber axle]

Against Torva torp meme, just reset 30 seconds in if your vanguard gets trashed.

Actually, more like 10. Torp meme not too scary now.

[crude jetty]

so what is best aux for ykkz now??

boiler and ??

[gritty cove]

More hp or speed if needed

air radar

[sacred heath]

lol my ykkz has shoe and oxy

don't ask me to explain it

[crude jetty]

boiler + fire extinguisher ?

[thin cosmos]

I use boliler+skirt

[abstract cypress]

rudder+extinguisher

[candid sluice]

Rudder beaver

[elder crane]

Pearl+ext

[rich escarp]

Number 2 pvper knows what's up

[thin cosmos]

probability of UR print from farming is so disappointing...

[candid sluice]

Welcome to operation siren

[thin cosmos]

it's far easier than I expected but also far lower probablity of UR

gold items are quite easy to get but too restricted source of UR

[elder crane]

rates shit, also there's that guy who already has 12 UR prints total, but I can't complain about this distribution lol

[thin cosmos]

I have 2 plane plate so far

[elder crane]

oh did you not buy out shop yet?

or are you not counting generals

[thin cosmos]

I'm in korean server!

I got seiren at thursday

even in 7pm

but it seems I can catch up York))

[elder crane]

ah
wait how is KR even getting rainbow prints

[thin cosmos]

Korean is the fastest rusher for game contents))

[hot creek]

you're one more away from a wyvern?

[elder crane]

one more then I can get a wyvern next month

I already used generals

[thin cosmos]

7plate away,2 so far

[hot creek]

OhISee, has anyone gotten a wyvern yet?

[elder crane]

should be almost impossible

[light crystal]

[elder crane]

rate is so shit that literally not enough AP

I'm almost(ish) out of AP myself

[thin cosmos]

my question is rather this. Why they set very low rate from level 6 seiren boss and stronghold, while they set quite high for cat

[hot creek]

idk mang, I've seen some wild luck before. I think at least someone has to have it by now.

[elder crane]

kinda tempted to pull a, was it kiro?

who fed all his cats for 2 lv 30 ones

[thin cosmos]

this is from my guild member. compare to easiness it's crazy reward...

same as 6level boss

more insane...

so cat>>>> anything else as I think

[light crystal]

There isn't any UR AA gun yet, is there?

If there's none, but can still get the BP's for it, I assume in the future there's gonna be some added to the game. If so, it would be better than current Sex Bofors, and u could actually down CV planes in PvP with them. Would be interesting

[thin cosmos]

well I don't think AA gun can shot down enough, since we gonna get more hp planes like wyvern

[candid sluice]

I’m at 2 main gun and 2 aa prints haven’t converted my universals

Hoping that the ur aa gun is really busted so that I don’t feel scammed

[thin cosmos]

what I learned from games is this, just make what OP now not waiting potential OP something))

[light crystal]

I can imagine Juneau with a UR AA gun being pretty damn useful, other than Heal

[candid sluice]

Jun with +11 sexybofors is actually doing pretty well

[coral wren]

@light crystal I need you

are you using mic + avigas? for hiryuu and shinano

[light crystal]

Mike? The fuck? Thats Bluerendar