It would be really good if that dec also can defeat some decs in like 20% or higher would be much better
#pvp
thin cosmos
however I have no idea for those dec now. too much RNG
Item settings should be tested too
light crystal
Depending how Peter Strasser turns out, Bismarck/PS/GS could be interesting 🤔
thin cosmos
about hit and eva. stats, I just realized I was totally confused.
And still I can't understand why cause it was quite obvious.
I knew 1eva=nearly2hit but 1eva=nealy 1hit
Am I right now?
Still I can't understand why I knew it as wrong way.
cause I could calculate effect of evasion vs hp and hit vs firepower or damage.
Really confusing...
crude jetty
how good is enty essex ws/monarch?
candid sluice
Ouch that travel time for the torps
thin cosmos
I tried my best to sync there combo
I tried cento+formi, cento+archroyal, formi+archroyal
but major problems are 2
our vanguard also hard to survive
manju juno eat all torp
elder crane
cause I could calculate effect of evasion vs hp and hit vs firepower or damage.
Erm
You defs want to check formula for it on wiki
It's nowhere near that simple sadly. Depends on edps/ehp vs what enemies, since +eva is more valuable if you have lower eva/higher luck and are facing lower hit/luck and +hit is more valuable when you are lower hit/luck and against higher eva/luck
Evarate skills here the same effect as massively increased luck
It takes only ~1.5 s for aimed torps between drop and landing
The problem is that ever since that patch last year, tbs drop fixed distance from target instead of after fixed amount of time
This means that ~1.5 s window you need has ~1 s of variability of when it is depending on vanguard position, so yeah, no bueno, Formi isn't reliable at setting up for the nuke anyways to begin with
Avgas technically decreases the variability since higher plane speed, but not by enough to really matter
thin cosmos
thx for detailed info
I know that fomula but I just wanted to check cause I massed up at understanding it cause it need some calculus to evaluate value of that 2stats
except destoryer, most hit and evasion 100~150 so not much different. I think can be about 50% chance different
I mean effectiveness
elder crane
Main eva usually lower than that, vanguard hit usually higher than that
Also plane suicide dmg skips the evasion check 
So extra complications
thin cosmos
ok so let's go some detailed case
40 evasion at BB vs 35 hit+15evasion
if that 2 BB fight each other, which one would be better
I as knew till the yesterday, 40 evasion works better but in real, 35hit+15evasion would be better
Am I right?
elder crane
@thin cosmos
thin cosmos
that fomula is too complicate but should be some smoth round linear formation
elder crane
Someone else's table, he never ended up finishing it entirely but what's shown here is mostly correct and gives a comparison of aux setupw
thin cosmos
wow
elder crane
Actually lemme crop a smaller section for clarity
thin cosmos
this is so cool
elder crane
Amagi vs Amagi under Nagato buff
VH armor doesn't include heavy armor benefit so ignore that
elder crane
Ye, not mine tho
thin cosmos
is it private or can I access there?
elder crane
I just got access to help give some pointers on it
For something much simpler I made waaaay back when
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xVEtFH-CFDc0pcGb4VGNWaJ0z4RNJz1OP0A3CwQ0p78/edit?usp=drivesdk
Mostly cause the one I showed above one doesn't have vanguard included
You can see here that vs high evasion stuff like ykkz, +hit is very valuable
And +eva is noticably worse if enemy hit is higher
elder crane
Also on the Hiryuu page you can see that +25 hit is better than/as good as catapult +100 Avi vs DD/CL
Mics give +30 hit
thin cosmos
ok let me read
btw I was alone when I said nagato shinano hiryuu is better than nagato amagi hiryuu
All they said IJN without Amagi is trash. Can you believe?
elder crane
Let them learn
It's for sure now a CV meta so Shinano-Hiryuu is even more on top than before
In an IJN CV meta Amagi is worse than Nagato *on paper (Nagato represents larger dmg boost than Amagi survivability boost)
I suppose they weren't around for the Nakaga/Amkaga meta back when
Nakaga was significantly better than Amkaga (Amagi foxes)
thin cosmos
yes for sure
and when I say it they just say this
"when I played, I could win easily"
but they didn't test vs strong opponent who know all settings
elder crane
Yeah it's night and day
Lots of my experimental teams ended up looking really good (like crushed everything) until I faced proper defense setups (sometimes even under 50%)
And given like 5% of defense are close to proper even in highest ranks...
thin cosmos
what is AI at CV in your sheet?
elder crane
The first +25 hit +15 evasion event aux for cv
We get one every major collab it seems
First one was from kizAI, so AI box
Hololive has the gamer emblem, idk what the one for DoA was called
thin cosmos
oh no one considered that item here
maybe just it has much lower stats than SG
include me...
elder crane
Yeah but SG on BB is really good
So even a shitty sg maybe not so bad
Not like you had any other +hit options for CV
thin cosmos
is this contain pvp avoid 5% buff?
thin cosmos
So this shows SG, badge, HFCR have similar outputs with SG, isn't it?
elder crane
HPFCR not that much better than SG on output if you ignore the skill
Shouldn't be surprising since only +1 hit +20 FP
The skill is why you take it
thin cosmos
as I read this show still badge is considerable for attacking cv aux
boombing due to closer vanguard really mad
I also tested mic with 5trial but RNG overwhelmed that tiny change
btw do you know how to calculrate speed?
with -40%,-60% goes 0% right?
they could move with some speed with archroyal defuff and sword fish cento
althoght total debuff 160%
elder crane
Multiplicative
So 2x -40% is -64%
(0.6 remaining x 0.6 remaining = 0.36 remaining or -64%)
Speed stat is squared then scaled to find actual movement speed
keen gull
WNT can be used as an accuracy aux too for CVs if not being put to use on the flagship
thin cosmos
@elder crane hmm if so how they just stopped? formi isn't caculated in that way?
radiant brook
Viable but HMS as a whole isn't
So that's a no
candid sluice
Is Monarch viable for PvP at dev30?
Because of the new CV mechanic BBs as a whole have fallen off, but before she’s fine
unkempt nymph
Hmm.. that's true. Maybe I'll just put her in to raise the levels. Not too focused on the rankings.
candid sluice
She’s still an amazing ship for non pvp so level her anyway
unkempt nymph
Yup. Doing that.
molten lance
whats the current meta with the new carrier mechanix?
sour oasis
Carriers, but also keeping vanguard alive.
Torpedo memes have taken a back seat (again). Stealth means CVs get at least one good launch with added damage before it wears off and it's business as usual.
The classic Torpedoes + Nagato Amagi Hiryu is still very competitive; it focuses on killing the vanguard, then can bombard the back once stealth wears off, but it's very reliant on barrage activation.
molten lance
is all carrier backline viable?
light crystal
The classic Torpedoes + Nagato Amagi Hiryu is still very competitive; it focuses...
Maine issue of torp meme is that we now have WNT + Manjuu Juneau, so now it doesn't really destroy VG as it used to
light crystal
is all carrier backline viable?
Sorta. But u need to use only the good carriers: Shinano, Hiryuu/Souryuu, Foxes, Centaur. Essex and Enty being the other maybe. Haven't tried the Cranes, but might be viable, but not optimal. Anyone else will struggle.
Imo, best setup is 1 BB/2CV 🤔
elder crane
<@430396894993186816> hmm if so how they just stopped? formi isn't caculated in ...
Formi literally says "stop then a slow of decreasing strength"
light crystal
Oh Formi too.
If u wanna use Essex/Enty, u gotta use PoW
Could be nice
@elder crane DO u have ur PoW 120?
elder crane
No
Also ehh, idk about that
Budget Nagato Shinano Hiryuu I suppose 
thin cosmos
So we agree with nagato shinano hiryuu is the best back line
elder crane
For now it sure seems that way
thin cosmos
And I will add azuma+juneau also
so 1 vanguard should be decided
so far my best is suzu but I didn't thought about all so maybe there can be better option
light crystal
So now this is officially better than a purple boiler, as/if u can +13 over a +11 boiler 
Intriguing 
thin cosmos
incase I can gather about 10k of t4 plate))
too many items compare to plate income
btw now I doubt about speed
sometimes they follow bombing and take too much damage
vs BB guns it was good but now CV age
I switched to repair kit and bulge
what about you guys?
elder crane
Collect enough speed and they have to double back into bombing
So speed counter CV fairly well
However rn for me the only troublesome comp is Hiryuu-Shinano that lands 818, and if that happens, speed can't help too much
So I've been less focused on that
thin cosmos
they move totally random or try to avoid?
seems random
in case it's random, I think speed just increase variance
BB gun target vanguard quite close but bombing isn't
candid sluice
Oh it’s definitely random
thin cosmos
incase it's random speed do no effect in bombing unless it has really low speed
it would different if the bombing it self has some targeting
candid sluice
I’ve actually seen my vanguard dodge a few bombings
thin cosmos
me too but I also saw get more damage
candid sluice
The AI has a mind of its own can’t control it 
Best u can do is pump up speed and hope they dodge the correct direction
thin cosmos
we have 2 options to solve this question
just try so many times and collect win rate
2nd is modeling
elder crane
There's no correct direction to dodge
All you hope is that your fleet doesn't decide to double back
As long as they move in roughly same direction, it's not too hard to have airstrike whiff basically all bomb
And aimed torps is like, literally any up and down will dodge lol
Those can't really even reliably land with a slow, you need a full stop or close to one basically
thin cosmos
double back=back and forth?
elder crane
Turn around and go back the way they came from, yeah
thin cosmos
yes and that's why I think speed is matter)
suppose you have infinite speed then you would have 100% chance of back and forth
so more speed=better isn't wrong
there must be optimal speed
elder crane
Once you have enough speed to dodge then either they turn or they don't pretty much
So it matters much less
That threshold seems to be at 37-40 ish average speed+beaver
thin cosmos
so my question is what is enough speed)
yes that was my question indeed
they tend to move some distance at least for 1direction
so if your vangaurd is slow enough, they can't go back
cause they couldn't move their 1way path
elder crane
It's move for a certain time, not for a distance
That's why slow teams stay more in center, which is actually preferable in PvE
elder crane
So basically some point on the front is picked
Then vanguard moves in that direction for a randomized time length
Then new location picked etc
That's what I understand from the datamined fomulae
thin cosmos
that time length is different for every time?
if we know bomb tagerting where, bombing sequence, and everage length of that time we can calculate best movement speed
they target quit randomly
if it were BB gun all circle should be centered at vanguard
elder crane
BB don't center either, just less rng dispersion
CN wiki has table on this stuff
Also AoE is circle but dispersion is a box cause #lolwhatisconsistency 🍝
Time length movement direction rng stuff afaik has never been determined in detail
You'll have to do code dive or convince someone else to do it
That part of the code was really messy last I saw it, though maybe, with the recent code cleanups AL has been doing, it's a bit neater now
thin cosmos
thx a lot
dispersion is a box is important info
About AoE, all of the red circle isn't AoE, right?
elder crane
All of red circle is same dmg
Also btw targeting location is scuffed
It's not at center of ship hitbox cause 🍝
Ship hitbox is a box and auto targeting location is bottom left corner iirc
thin cosmos
hmm
when we consider barrage of monarch, 1 circle hit 2back ship at the same time mostly
but usually 1 barrage attack only 1
so as I think AoE is smaller than size of red circle
this is a picture when nagato fire. you mean this very big full red zone is AoE? it seems too wide
elder crane
Yes it is
And Monarch does splash sides slightly with 1-2 shells from barrage
Normal BB shells are 15 radius AoE
For comparison AA range usually around 30
thin cosmos
2000lb 28
elder crane
2k bomb basically not hard dodgeable, but that's ok
Most bombs are 500 lb which aren't so bad
And bomb weight barely increases base dmg at all past 500 lb
Though new fighters mean you will also have a lot of 1k lb around now
thin cosmos
I got the point
some more questions
so that 15 and 30 is same parameter with range?
like CL gun 60-80
and is it diameter or radius?
and when it says dispersion is 20, is it size of targeting point or size of total possible AoE area?
elder crane
Dispersion is from targeting point
And yes range is same parameter, all distance measurements use the same unit
Speed to movement speed is speed stat squared then multiplied by 0.01 iirc in units/second
thin cosmos
I can't understand about movement speed
elder crane
Ok so say 40 speed stat
40 squared is 1600
Divide by 100 to get 16
So base movement speed is 16 tiles/s
But there's also other mods for which direction of travel and top vs bottom of screen
Beaver badge should apply before the square afaik
thin cosmos
oh that wasn't linear from stats
I though it must be linear...
cause we use that kind of speed system in real life
so double speed stats means 4times faster
elder crane
Ye
Slowest possible setup and fastest is like 4-5 x speed stat diff
So one is snail and other zips around
Makes sense from observation if you think about it
DD have less than twice speed stat of CA usually, but 3 DD is muuuuuch faster than 3 CA vanguard
thin cosmos
oh yes it's true
so now I can see speed is definitly matter
do you know bomb sequence also? like helldiver, 2*500+1**2000
it seems it need some time to put all 3bomb
can be 500, 500, 2000 every time or different sequence every time
or 2000,500,500 so on
thin cosmos
alright I got the answer
you can dodge 500lb bomb with 38 vanguard speed stats
2000lb with 45 stats
it's amazing that bluerendar knew it only from experience not from calculation)
we can get enough speed only with beaver if it boost 20% of stats
since 27+32+42 is base for azuma juneau yuki
but you would have some more chance of dodging cause of dispersion if you have more speed than 38
candid sluice
This conversation is too big brain for me 
thin cosmos
I counted bomb falling time and divide radius of bomb with that
storm jewel
. here so i can read these later
trail temple
It's a very stimulating conversation for when you wake up in the morning
thin cosmos
2more info would be helpful to get more precise result
As I see they just stop at some point.
I think it's due to the random point was too close so vanguard reached point and wait till the next random point
if the point generation isn't related with speed, faster means more chance to stop
this is quite critical
Second is distribution of bombing.
my calculation based on they will bomb more when closer to center of bombing area.
if it is totally same chance for all point of bombing area, we need much more speed cause it's 36~42 diameter
light crystal
I'm trying to see wut planes to +13 first for my current Hiryuu/Shinano set up
thin cosmos
you should 13 aux not plane
light crystal
I use Hornet/HD/818 on Hiryuu, and Cuda/HD/Ryusei on Shinano. I find that winning the VG battle first has the best chances at winning the battle
thin cosmos
plane have very low effectiveness cause you have to do 3 while guns only 1
light crystal
So as 818 TB's would be hitting the VG first, I guess I should +13 those first 🤔
thin cosmos
well how much plate can you get per day?
light crystal
Using plates on purple HD's is probably stupid and a waste of precious resources
So I'll probably only use them on the gold variant
storm jewel
~~get a wyvern ~~
thin cosmos
here's no seiren so we can get only about 20 per week for all sum of plate
light crystal
Shinano will use the Wyvern
thin cosmos
in your case that plane plate is fixed so can't convert to other kind?
storm jewel
maybe its time to +13 comet for faster rld
light crystal
Shinano: Wyvern/goldHD/Ryusei. HiryuKai: Hornet/goldHD/818.
thin cosmos
ruysei is main dealer for your set
also plane number is 4 while all others are 2 or 3
light crystal
So I'll +13 the 818's first, then the Hornets on her as well.
light crystal
So, 818 > Hornets... Then I'm not sure. Maybe Shinano's Cudas lol
Might be a waste, cuz I should be doing the Wyverns, but farming the Wyverns will take 2-3 months I take it ♿
light crystal
So while farming the Wyvern, might as well +13 the Cudas in the meantime.
thin cosmos
cuda is only 2planes in your set
also main dealing from cuda is end of screen which isn't related with +13
light crystal
I think u missed my original point. I dont care as much about doing damage to the mainline as I do the VG. Killing VG asap is the top priority
thin cosmos
and?
light crystal
So the planes that are going to be damaging the VG will take priority
elder crane
plane-wise I'd save for wyvern since rainbow is expensive af to +13
light crystal
Cute, he's expecting ppl to be using Akaga, hence the Belfap. But I'm not using Akaga, so she's w/e against me lol
elder crane
105 plates for just +10 to +11 iirc :kek:
light crystal
Nice name tho
Well like I said tho, farming the Wyvern in the first place might take a while
So in the meantime, I'd be using non-updated planes
elder crane
I expect to be done wyvern before enough stuff to +13 it
light crystal
Just cuz I'm saving for Wyverns which I don't even have
Seems counter productive to me
thin cosmos
as I see both of you are too greedy..
elder crane
well then you'll be fighting wyverns without upgrades on your own, pick your poison basically
light crystal
elder crane
tbh the new suisei is pretty tempting too
light crystal
Damn, Akaga is so weak against me lol
Nagato/shin/Hiryu mirrors are much more scary
thin cosmos
I will try to make 11 for all gold
cause it's much cheaper to upgrade than rainbow
it's the best way to grow power at same cost
when you guys get 1 13 rainbow, I would get 10 11 gold
and it has about 3times effectiveness
thin cosmos
you lost if he were hiryu not amagi)
light crystal
🐰
Which is why I said, mirror set ups are scarier lmao
Akaga, or 2BB/1CV are not.
elder crane
how did it even get to that point lol
thin cosmos
mostly plane I guess
elder crane
you should roll Namano defense usually
elder crane
Azuma does look fairly low dmg I guess
and ykkz looks like early death
do you have her trailing? I find ykkz tends to eat shit if trailing
wait that's a noshiro setup
tf are you doing now really 
light crystal
Dude, u cant control RNG lmao
elder crane
you're 818 right?
maybe that just didn't land 
light crystal
Maybe, I dunno
Which is why I put value on sniping VG asap
Or ur at a disadvanatge
Which is the reason about the whole convo I was having lmao
elder crane
idk no Azuma means it really should be an ez roll
light crystal
RNG gonna RNG lol
elder crane
which probably part of the unecessary RNG is 818
thin cosmos
so in your setting you expect shinano rusei go back not VG?
light crystal
Tbh, i should be running double cuda on shinano, but im using her on pve as well, so rather not swap her kit too much
thin cosmos
so your plan is just scratch them with linear torpe
inthat case still upgrading 818 is bad idea
cause before 818 hit, oppo. vg not slowed
better upgrade planes on shinano
coral wren
What dev level can azuma replace noshiro?
elder crane
probably ~dev 25 still
glossy meteor
hey guys i need some help
i am versing a pvp with super high torp vanguard how do i deal with it
light crystal
Use WNT, Bulges, lead DCP Juneau, or Noshiro
glossy meteor
thanks
prime panther
for you guys who want to know what cloak does
light crystal
Cloak? What is that
thin cosmos
stealth
light crystal
Oh
elder crane
they actually fixed the tl later
but too late
also many ppl don't even know about air resist in first place so lol
tender bay
Use WNT, Bulges, lead DCP Juneau, or Noshiro
What is DCP an WNT?
thin cosmos
DCP maybe the flag absorb 24% of damage of VG for 6second
elder crane
no
DCP is the manjuu 8s immunity
WNT is washington Naval treaty, the global -15% dmg
flag is the semaphore
thin cosmos
sorry for my mistake)
elder crane
dw it's a bit confusing since naval jargon stuff
esp since it's actually in EN called the Damacon manjuu iirc
thin cosmos
me too!
elder crane
eurk?
thin cosmos
korea
elder crane
yeah manjuu probably most universal since picture
thin cosmos
I found really interesting thing
when we do na+shi+hir mirror, depends on hirue barrage roll, so much chance of can't reveal defending force while most times attacking force revealed because of VG
So in theory, it's crazy dangerous...
Oh sorry it was bluerendar's discovery from my video
late heath
Idk if you guys ever notice this but Azuma barrage at around 10s~ really help with reveal as well
light crystal
Fighting ur mirror. Literally cancer. And this guy put his Azuma middle. It may or may not increase the chance for his Last Stand to proc later than me. Well, let's see how this shit show unfolds.
Oh wow, lil shit wasn't using Manjuu on his Juneau. Dunno if oblivious about the synergy with Juneau and Manjuu, or just being nice
rustic ridge
What is the point of wnt in pvp?
candid sluice
Stall and torpmemes
thin cosmos
as I see it increase chance of vg can survive till the 2nd raid in defense
better without it in attack but I focus more on defense
when we think about wnt, azuma juneou yuki was hard to survive till the 2nd wave but with it, about 30% vs mirror
with 818,can be different.I'm cuda user
crude jetty
I thought 818 only good with bb
thin cosmos
the problem is air raid slower
would be slowed between 22~30
or even later without nagato
but what bb fire at that time?
amagi is but...
elder crane
What is the point of wnt in pvp?
Makes torpteam RNG burst manageable, kills foxes even harder, helps stall to get slower ships to contribute (basically all normal CVs), extends games to make RNG more manageable, slightly favors ships with % dmg boost skills
mossy atlas
Makes kms even tankier
light crystal
I feel someone is advising ppl wrong or something, cuz ppl are putting Manjuus on their Enties and not their Juneaus instead 
frail orbit
light crystal
Or they dont run Juneau in general
No, they run BOTH Juneau and Enty, but they opt to put Manjuu on their Enty instead! It boggles the mind. Either they don't know Manjuu insta kills after effects runs out, someone advised them wrong, or they're trying to be nice with an easy defense...
elder crane
they hear "Hiryuu is good because final counter" and then they read the skill and read manjuu and "hey same thing right?"
though I think some particular person is spreading it yea
thin cosmos
well I think they are just noob....
cause so many those guys here even though no advertising fir enty
so many people tend to not listen others opinion
glossy meteor
hey guys this isn't exactly related to pvp but i need some calcs and i wanna confirm it with someone so basically i was doing the hiryuu meta fights did 4 and had helana not once did the skill proc she didn't have the radar to decrease it to happening at 16s but what is the chances of that happening
so basically what is the chance of that happening
sour oasis
AotN is always within rushing range, even if you miss/lose 5 fights. (I think someone on Lexington lost 12 and still got it. My personal 'best' is 10 and I'm not afraid to say it needed a lot of luck and persistence.)
mossy atlas
good to know, thank you :D
rich escarp
so dumb question here. Since carriers are hot right now, does that mean retro sandy will be a good investment to have?
mossy atlas
yes
sour oasis
Sorta
mossy atlas
seattle is also another good one
candid sluice
Sandy in pvp is eh
sour oasis
For a PvP perspective, Sandy can reduce CV damage, but doesn't overpower or outlast the current vanguard meta.
mossy atlas
you should try seattle + elite repair crew :3
abstract cypress
candid sluice
sour oasis
Juneau. There answer is always Juneau.
mossy atlas
how many times does juneau die per day
sour oasis
For a dinky little cruiser with a broken foot, she is hardcore.
thin cosmos
basically, even with her strong AA almost double than others, still can't kill enough plane
so her objective rather her 50% AA buff
and it's really good but not always activated))
sour oasis
I thought PvP planes went back to bring invincible. At best, you can only reduce their hp?
mossy atlas
you can shoot down like 1 out of like 10 trillion XD
abstract cypress
jesus refuse to die for ur sins
mossy atlas
the magnificent
late heath
Hoping Formidable make a comeback soon so I can get her, gotta test Shinano Centaur Formidable comp
Formidable skill should sync perfectly with centaur who have really high reload stat
Then the cudas on top of that
thin cosmos
you can improve some more if you addjust formi just later shinano
and it wasn't cuda
but if you want to use cuda, why they should be stopped?
thin cosmos
alright I tested sandy,suzu,yuki
+818 vs cuda also
suzu is the best but not much difference between yuki
eventhough she have much higher AA and smoke, still yuki's 25% chance protection is so good
Sandy is definitly weaker than both but she have some chances do you she increase chance to cut fighters at 10s barrage
no1 almost never activated..
I'm uploading those files
about 818, it increase deal at VG definitly but still sometimes can't kill VG
hexed iron
My Azuma isn't dev level 20 yet, would Saint Louis or Noshiro be a good placeholder?
thin cosmos
nope
somber granite
Is azuma at 15 usable at all?
mint hornet
Noshiro's pretty solid
her juneau yuki and azuma made up the meta vanguard prior to the new items/game systems
noshi's still good to use now
somber granite
Don't have noshiro cause I'm on amagi sadly
thin cosmos
yes she is but you have to use dirrefent other 2 vanguard also
somber granite
Do my go to for the time being is ykkz juneau and Roon
hexed iron
yeah I'm just trying to adjust my fleet after the meta shift and almost got destroy by Nagato/Hiryuu/Shinano, thank guys
keen obsidian
my Juneau is dumb, ran right into an invincible Hiryu and ded
light crystal
I would probably use a Dev 30/F5 Sanrui over a non-Dev 30 Azuma. If Sanrui is not Fate 5, I would use a Dev 25 Azuma instead
Ultimately U should be grinding for Azuma asap, so if given priority over the two, take Azuma first
somber granite
Yeah I'm working on it but I'm still low on the prints. I got about 150 for fdg and 60 for azuma
light crystal
But if u want to grind PR1 over PR2 more for some reason, Dev30/F5 Sanrui is deffo solid
Ofc, having Noshiro, probably use that instead over a Dev30/F5 Sanrui tho :v
IF u have her, that is.
thin cosmos
san lui have better defense han low level azuma but her gun is so unique so hard to replace
so if your question is what ship should I use, noshiro or san is answer
but if you ask they can replace her, nope
light crystal
I would rate it like this: AzumaDev30 > Noshiro > Sanrui/Dev30/F5 > Azuma Dev25(And lower) > Non-Fate-5 Sanrui.
somber granite
My more immediate problem really is who to use when you don't have any of these 3. Noshiro being event only and azuma grind basically locking you out of sanrui
light crystal
IF u dont have either 3, I dunno. Pleb out with a 120 PortKai I guess lmao
somber granite
Sounds about right 
hexed iron
Alright, thanks a lot guys, I'm sticking with Noshiro for now, just recently got back to researching blueprint for PR2
thin cosmos
@somber granite if you can tell all your ships, I can propose best dec
light crystal
Hmm, maybe Takao could be viable? Main issue would be she only becomes tankey once she unleashes her AoA, so about 10-15s into the game. Might be too late for them for PvP standards tho lol
thin cosmos
what is her stats? I as remember too low base stats
light crystal
We're talking for ppl that don't have PR
thin cosmos
well you have some good ships
light crystal
Well, if u got Roon, use her
thin cosmos
but low level)
light crystal
His Roon is Dev 30/120, deffo user her over the rest u got atm lol
Juneau/Roon/YKKZ. That would be decent enough for wut u got atm
thin cosmos
if your back side also similar situation, try to use helena and retreat in case no SG
somber granite
Better pr or muse though?
thin cosmos
basically would be hard without luck
light crystal
Ultimately, u want to use either a tankey VG to stall, or a high-burst VG that kills other VG asap
thin cosmos
but all ships should be close to 120
light crystal
There's very little in-between
It doesnt matter
Juneau lv 110 is good enough kek
somber granite
My backline is nagato shinano Taihou with hiryuu in the making
I had warkai too but 
light crystal
And YKKZ being 114 is also good enough
Ofc, u want to get two to 120 asap for more consistency
thin cosmos
so just level up them while making azuma
light crystal
Getting to 513 BP's for Azuma Dev 30 would take a while. Meantime, probably stick with ur 120/Dev30 Roon
thin cosmos
I agree
somber granite
thin cosmos
I just changed tiny adjustment my dec and it made really big difference
really surprising
like new bofos->113
safe meteor
so hows pvp meta nowadays?
elder crane
waiting on wyvern
stealth has kindaish fully killed off warkai now
foxes have not managed to be good enough still to break into top meta, and it doesn't look like +13 or Wyvern is likely to change that
but they are less embarrassing these days
wyvern will be important for stabilizing offense Nagato-Shinano-Hiryuu in the mirror, right now it's very RNG due to Hiryuu barrage RNG and how that interacts with spotting
there's some more experimental teams using Richi or PoW to try to win vanguard fight earlier that maybe can come into play
thin cosmos
basically most of 2cv or 3cv decs are playble at offense. nagato shinano hiryuu is the best but many cv decs can win with little try
akaga has some advantages than before cause it can attack in stealth while removing stealth from opponent CVs. But as always belfa and hiryu is quite good counter of them))
about BB experimental teams... they also would have some chance in offense with try
But BB guns are just too random so hard to make 90%winning dec , as I think
sacred heath
new HMS torp bomber
elder crane
It's not stated ingame anywhere afaik
safe meteor
taking increased dmg from those aviation stuff
elder crane
But Wyvern will intercept light fighters do
safe meteor
oh that sounds nice
elder crane
Azuma does fine with her phat ass HP
safe meteor
right
elder crane
It's more than nice
It's OP af
Since it has extremely high crash dmg like cudas
Interception also does crash dmg
elder crane
And Formi or whatnot, yeah
Anyways aside from it being brokenly powerful it also fixes currently Shinano-Hiryuu mirror issue of 10 s Hiryuu barrage
upper cove
Ya just get 4 wyverns ez
elder crane
Rn 5 fighters + 2-5 Hiryuu barrage planes is right on the border of being able to get Shinano and Hiryuu spotted before their first strike wave
If you lowroll barrage it's not possible for offense to spot defense
Defense vanguard actually can rng spot a bit since closer, so they almost always spot offense
And then stealth buff means defense actually has the dmg advantage if bad RNG
Once we get first wyvern, then it's 4 wyvern from Shinano too, so should be no more RNG
Wyverns also have insanely high base HP so almost impossible to shoot down, even more so than current planes
light crystal
U make it sound like the average player will be swimming in Wyverns. U d o know they're hard to grind, aight
silent ocean
Till we get ur aa guns
light crystal
Btw, just gonna put this out there that I think this fleet gave me trouble in the morning. I think, not so sure.
My fleet.
It looked like garbo, so wasn't paying attention (Triple BB setup, with meh VG). But when I looked at the end, Hiryu and Shinano were the only ones alive, and like at 1/5 or so HP left each. So I assume his Defense did put a fight, surprisingly. I wish I was looking closer from the beginning to have seen it.
thin cosmos
really hard to understand so I also hope could see it
I guess your VG just followed BB gun fire
trail temple
I still, as a precaution, reposition my main fleet based on warkai's positioning
Or if the fleet is using double BB/BCs
light crystal
I still, as a precaution, reposition my main fleet based on warkai's positioning
Oh, I do that still. Always have the Bunny tank her.
shouldn't shinano tank?
trail temple
I prefer shinano tanking and having final counter go off later for a little security
thin cosmos
well since both survived till the end so that battle must be due to vg rng death
peter looks very strong(new KMS CV)
Would be very nasty with rng in defense
3second stop is just a disaster
candid sluice
It’s too inconsistent and rng based for my liking
thin cosmos
yes and that's much more dangerous at defense
candid sluice
It’s definitely worth trying out but I can’t really test fleets on defense
I don’t have any buddies on my server that can test together
thin cosmos
yes that's problem of azur lane pvp
too little players and very uncomfortable system for test
but since we tested and calculated the importance of speed of VG
it simply means about 2times or more damage at VG
resulting removal of VG really
we have to remember graf has 2 slot for bomber
candid sluice
Then again if the freeze procs in a weird time it can’t be taken advantage of
That’s the part I don’t like about it, the inconsistency
thin cosmos
again inconsistency is good in defense
elder crane
It looked like garbo, so wasn't paying attention (Triple BB setup, with meh VG)....
Hiryuu at 1/5 HP? Sounds like ez win then
mossy atlas
does Seattle's FS NoFlyZone+ instant FP RLD buff work in pvp?
Ik she needs air parity or higher to proc but or course that doesnt really exist in pvp or opsi lol
waxen reef
Has the PVP tier list Google Doc been updated?
Trying to figure out what the best fleet to build towards is
Still using Nakaga
sacred heath
right now it seems to be nagato shinano hiryuu
that's what i'm using, with the 818 on hiryuu. still not sure about that choice. pretty inconsistent on attack.
waxen reef
Good thing I've got Shinano in the dorm
late heath
that's what i'm using, with the 818 on hiryuu. still not sure about that choice...
818 still need rng to hit yea lol
thin cosmos
cuda and 818 had similar win rate when I tested
sacred heath
but when it works, it's just so satisfying watching the vanguard melt
thin cosmos
It could be better at defense
but offense you could win with cuda's deal also
more important was AA gun and position
longer distance AA gun is now very important due to cutting fighter at 10s barrage exchange
and DD should be centered
as I think it's due to armor type and speed
light crystal
Hiryuu at 1/5 HP? Sounds like ez win then <:BuckyPride:666111441786372158>
Eh, it's just that I expect to roll over a full 3 BB div. Had a similar fight of a fleet of triple BB by another guy today, I rolled him over. I suspect that earlier instance was some wacky RNG going on. Still, as you'd expect, u roll over triple BB fleets pretty much all the time.
I need to get myself some more Sexbofors tho, seem useful for PvP now. I feel Juneau is actually downing some planes
light crystal
Hmm, currently running Sea Hornet on Hiryuu. But maybe I need to start running VF17's instead. SH do more damage cuz of 2x 1k pounders, but VF17's 5% AA fleet buff might be more desirable tbh, dunno 🤔
elder crane
So I've been running Namano again these days, and it's actually working surprisingly well
No fighters at all
None of that hiryuu 10 s barrage shit
Will probably continue unless I run into trouble or get wyvern
light crystal
I don't know. The main weakness will be fighting Hiryuu's. Can get cucked.
elder crane
turns out as long as Azuma/ykkz is alive it's all gucci
thin cosmos
well I guess you will be in trouble vs nagato shinano hiryuu
you might be able to cut off weaker decs yes
you can't remove stealth from them so your vg hard to survive after 2nd wave
while you have chance for can't kill VG till the 2nd wave
light crystal
I guess Amagi at least debuffs and has the barrage. Can also say fuck it with Eva stuff cuz it doesn't matter as much and just run full offensive Aux I guess
Amagi does have crap AA, another weakness. But since she's Medium armor, may help with mitigating bit of the CV dmg
thin cosmos
just problem is VG fight
1stealth+1none stealth damage is just insane
incase your VG can't survive, hiryuu would end the game
light crystal
Yeah, which is y I see it as problematic. Going against a Hiryuu, specially without a Hiryuu and 2 BB's instead. I dunno man. Like he said tho, if u win the VG fight, ur more or less fine.
elder crane
Tbh I'm expecting to be hard walled soonish
Then I'll have to take 818 off Hiryuu in my def fleet
light crystal
@elder crane Wuts ur YKKZ Aux looking like? I'm running 550HP/Boiler.
candid sluice
Same here
slender atlas
🙄running ryusei on shinano seem worst, fail 2 times already, i feeel swordfist and bacuda better
hot creek
cudas 4 lyfe
thin cosmos
so many guys ignore cuda but I think it's always do it's job)
btw what certain is you should use fighter for 1st slot of shinano
candid sluice
I would choose between sea hornet and pirate if you had to give shinano a fighter
naive dome
what's wrong with vf17?
radiant brook
Woops wrong place
elder crane
btw what certain is you should use fighter for 1st slot of shinano
If running solo you should very much not put on a fighter
But yeah, with Hiryuu, for now, fighter 100%
elder crane
what's wrong with vf17?
VF-17 is pirate
candid sluice
I think they were referring to a message that was deleted 
elder crane
<@!430396894993186816> Wuts ur YKKZ Aux looking like? I'm running 550HP/Boiler.
FE (for naga barrage) + pearl (for insurance and since stealth seems to mean Jun overheals often)
thin cosmos
what is FE?
elder crane
Fire Extinguisher
safe meteor
are there test being done for best pvp teams?
like is Noshiro better now with more carriers?
remember that Noshiro had this skill?
"Increases the DMG this ship deals to enemy CVs and CVLs by 20%"
those stray torps gonna hit the carriers hard
storm jewel
noshiro rng torp hitting invisible cv far away? not seeing it happening
elder crane
remember that Noshiro had this skill?
"Increases the DMG this ship deals to enem...
Mags don't even track stealthed CV so, well, yeah lol
thin cosmos
now days I see some experimental decs in my server))
I found formi+2BB
and cento+hiryuu+enter
safe meteor
im just using Nagato + Shinano and Hiryuu kai
safe meteor
what does decs stand for?
thin cosmos
basically slow
thin cosmos
I like cuda
thin cosmos
well I think you missunderstanded what I said
safe meteor
oh?
thin cosmos
I saw others play those decs not me
safe meteor
but what equips?
thin cosmos
hmm there are a lot of files I uploaded
safe meteor
Suzu?
thin cosmos
so you can see details at there
safe meteor
where are they?
thin cosmos
about 10 files I guess
thin cosmos
there are all kind of equips if you find well
thin cosmos
yes it was test
safe meteor
of course
thin cosmos
so should change each to test
safe meteor
how did it go? doesnt seem so good
thin cosmos
file name saying result
safe meteor
i see now
thin cosmos
So I'm quite sure I found the best dec
but still it's fun to find unexpected decs
like 3BB))
it's totally out of meta and some people still want to try it))
and surprisingly, some times it work!
safe meteor
it is hard to find all the files, which one was most succesful? the one with cuda and Yuki?
seems like 8 win no loss?
safe meteor
if you say cuda, then both Shinano and Hiryuu using it?
safe meteor
818 has more rng?
thin cosmos
ofcourse!
safe meteor
i thought Ryusei would have rng
elder crane
Ryuusei is very rng if you want it to hit vanguard
818 is worse though if you rely on it, it's a massive dmg swing between hitting it and not for those teams
uncut agate
Barracuda or VT-18, which one is better for pvp?
elder crane
Cudas 100%
VT-18 only has 300 base crash dmg to cuda's 480
The flood is also too slow-paced and RNG to matter
uncut agate
Oh alright, thanks 
coral wren
How good is Shinano in pvp?
sacred heath
very. current meta.
uncut agate
partner with Hiryuu for CV cancer 👍
sacred heath
yeah, most are running nagato shinano hiryuu right now
some people still using amagi instead of hiryuu
things are still sorting themselves out
light crystal
FE (for naga barrage) + pearl (for insurance and since stealth seems to mean Jun...
You build for Nagato Barrage? Ooof. U get some weird games, cuz most of the time for me is having to tank the first airstrike and/or torpedoes lma
And Juneau never overheals. She dies at the right time. I think u got some wacky RNG going on
crude jetty
what shpuld be aux on Nagato with hiryuu und shinano btw?
light crystal
So WNT, and Manju/Pearl is still best combo for her imo
crude jetty
I run beaver tag and sg atm
crude jetty
wnt?
light crystal
I then run Beacon/JetFuel on both CV's
sacred heath
washington naval treaty
think it's a reward for a memento band
light crystal
crude jetty
I am working on Manju atm
ahh thx
When equipped by your Flagship: decreases the DMG dealt by both sides' ships by 15.0%.
dmg dealt??
like.. what they take on dmg right?
tbh I dont know if it is that good... if the effect wears off, after Nagato ded
sg has hit for faster Vanguard clear
sacred heath
we've tested it
it favors the attacker and is worth using
crude jetty
is it worse on def?
light crystal
Basically, it weakens torp meme (And generally, high burst damage, so alleviates some unwanted RNG), and favors CV's as it extends the battle (More Airstrikes).
thin cosmos
WNT basically same effect both for attack and defense
cause attaker bonus counted mutiplication
however, it's quite important for CV defense
crude jetty
Damn I need it
thin cosmos
since your major goal is let VG survive till 2nd wave, and WNT helps it a lot
crude jetty
alltho
Nagato always dies first
most of the times for me
so is the effect still there, even when she is gone?
thin cosmos
yes
crude jetty
okayyyyy thats crazy
thin cosmos
as we said))
thin cosmos
yes for sure
when we remember attacker namahi vs defender nashihi
however I want to talk about nagato another aux
since I use nelson flag, I wonder it's good
sacred heath
i stopped using nelson flag since it made my juneau survive for too long
crude jetty
what about azuma first with nelson behind and juneau mid?
sacred heath
i have juneau main tanking with manjuu
light crystal
U could, but then have to take Manjuu out of Juneau
As she may outlive the rest of the guys needing a heal lmao
thin cosmos
beaver at nagagto can use shoes at azuma so can increase a little more speed
I think it's better in most case but I just worried about torpedo memes
light crystal
WNT on Flagship + Manjuu/Pearl Juneau lead = The right amount of time spent alive. At least for me, it seems she overheals for Bluerendar, but I don't how lmao
sacred heath
yeah that's what's working for me too
thin cosmos
So both of you guys using shoes?
thin cosmos
aha kk
crude jetty
I dont have her... nor those shoes?
thin cosmos
it's 28 evi+5speed
thin cosmos
WNT on Flagship + Manjuu/Pearl Juneau lead = The right amount of time spent aliv...
I think he mentioned about 2 CVs they usually don't get -35% health when she die
crude jetty
aaaaand you cant get it anymore, right? 
light crystal
I'm prioritizing my VG staying alive for as long as possible over maybe minmaxing heal on CV's. After all, your VG folding first over the enemy's is extremely disastrous. Specially considering that u only got 1 BB to defend the entire backline with. And she may or may not already be dead (The CV's would outlive her). So yeah, I don't get his argument, but w/e, it's his RNG lol
thin cosmos
About beaver, is it remain buff when nagato die?
if not, quite in trouble cause most times azuma survive longer
or incase azuma die, the slower unit killed so vg goes faster
But DD+azuma without beaver buff, too slow
elder crane
Beaver badge is perma
Nagato barrage = Jun can overheal with pearl basically, if it procs manjuu
plus less HP on her lessens chance of her not getting proc'd by the 20 s strike, which occasionally happens
thin cosmos
too many possible situaton
so now I can't decide what should we want to get
@elder crane this situation almost never happened unless vs akaga or torpedo, am I right?
should we ignore torpe dec?
they are weak enough in defense but I don't want they are easy to win at offense.
but the more I consider them, the weaker to other decs)))
light crystal
MY Juneau doesn't overheal with Pearl. At least, not as often as Bluerendear makes it sound
Maybe his VG lacks speed, or cuz he's not using double CV atm. Or some really wonky RNG. Who knows
sour oasis
I was facing off against a flex defense using Juneau with Pearl and Nagato/2 CV. At times the heal was well-timed, I had spread my damage everywhere and Juneau saved everyone. Some rare times, my focus fire caused her to die within 30s wasting all the heals. And yet other times she was the last vanguard and her heal was pointless because just Nagato wasn't protecting her CV.
TL;DR, sometimes Pearl+Martyr works because 🎲
If Juneau doesn't die first or someone else doesn't die before she procs Manjuu or Martyr, retry. Probably good as any reason to be running a French/Torpedo preload offense.
light crystal
I find myself only retrying when he last 2 standing are the Bunnies on either side. I'm at 2-3 Retries this season on such scenario. There's a slight edge that the Defense fleet has cuz their VG crosses on your detection zone a bit more often than you do on theirs, due to the spawn points.
light crystal
Dude wasn't using Hiryuu. A mistake 
thin cosmos
About pearl location, Suzu would be solution. I found quite a lot of times she die faster than Juneau.
so you can guaranty max heal for 3ships for most case
At the same time it's critical weakness of Suzu.
Theoretically, she is much stronger than Yuki vs 2CVs(yuki has 13% more ehp including her blue skill. But suzu get 25% less damage from aviation+smoke.)
But due to too late die of Juneau,
she can't get any healing till the death so die early
elder crane
it's the issue Sandyret has
sure she's not squish vs CVs
but there's Azuma and Nagato still
Anyways if the strike lands really hard, ykkz tends to die first, so pearl it is for me
thin cosmos
yeah that's why I said pearl location can be both😋
and I would say suzu is different situation with sandy
her weakness is due to Juneau not herself
smoke can cover base tanking weakness
sour oasis
When will PvP get a 2nd Pearl.
sacred heath
mossy atlas
helena: alright ima just go explode myself on a torpedo that is behind me
radiant brook
Does anyone have sandy encounters that has the enemy sandy having suspiciously human behaviour?
She dodge torps and airstrikes while moving like how players would
candid sluice
midnight heron
now im convinced game is just bs-ing me
same backlines
im running full offense aux
somehow deals less dmg to enemy backline when both vg dead
and im using cudas vs enemy using 818
👍 balanced game
thin cosmos
I can't understand what you are saying..
midnight heron
idk wats hard to understand 
candid sluice
What backline were u using
midnight heron
nanoryuu
thin cosmos
I don't know what is 'bs-ing', how can cuda deals less damage when both VG dead, and why is it balanced game?
+what is offense aux?
midnight heron
bullshitting, no idea, its sarcasm, not using defense aux eg. rudders
midnight heron
idk what rng there is when its a pure numbers game when its 2cv vs 2cv (other than parallel torp hits)
¯_(ツ)_/¯
thin cosmos
bombing is huge RNG
midnight heron
against moving targets sure
against 2 stationary targets
idk wat else to say
im done anyway
thin cosmos
it's just accuracy problem
like sometimes you can avoid both barrage of warki
sometimes full hit in same stats
thin cosmos
you did it 3fight and all did so?
midnight heron
ya
midnight heron
its the same thing as a previous complaint
torpmemes that dont die to double airstrikes
idk who can come up with dat shit
thin cosmos
maybe it's a bug
uncut agate
yes, pvp is a bug
thin cosmos
I think sometimes item change has some delay
I had several times I had trouble at offense just after change dec
but after some time and relogin, it was easy fight
midnight heron
i didnt even change gear so dat doesnt matter
ive had it with dis season's rng anyway
light crystal
I dunno. I like it more now. I was already running Nag/Shin/Hiryu prior to Stealth, and did not change a single thing, other than swapping out the Rudder/Beaver ont he 2 CV's (To tank BB's) for Jet Fuel instead now lol
next burrow
Hi, I’d like to ask a question, if you don’t mind?
Between essex + 2 uss carriers & essex + PoW + another uss carrier, which works better in this format?
elder crane
Definitely the second since Enty is the only other USN CV remotely worth using
thin cosmos
I calculated effectiveness of 13. Azuma main gun is the most priority as my calutation
unlike previous 1~10 it seems it give additinal stats at higher upgrade
thin cosmos
pog?
uncut agate
Azuma needs dev25 to be good, right?
uncut agate
Alright thanks, my Azuma is dev20 rn, just gotta level her more
thin cosmos
anyway the point here is how much percentage of increase vs none upgrade
for planes, your upgrade would only effect about 30~40% of totally plane
and even do not effect crash damage. so very low effectiveness
so when you upgrade 1plane for CV, would lead to about 1% damage upgrade or less
aux have quite easy caculation since majority is 1st stats
it also near 1% even in case an item has very good base stats like rudder or WNT
So gun must be prior concern and vs nanato, gun damage proportion is higher in azuma since nagato's major role is barrage
uncut agate
How's the new XBT2D-I? it's speed is somewhat lower than cuda, so idk how that'll affect it.
thin cosmos
most people think about wyvern. Is it wyvern?
uncut agate
Ok, wiki says its crash damage is pretty low (206) , less than half of Barracuda's (480) 
elder crane
@thin cosmos
Pretty much no point in comparing between categories since plates are separate, you can't use plane prints on guns instead or anything
I suppose guild has a few general prints - then it's guns for short-term and aux for long-term
thin cosmos
Since here too little users compare to japan and global server, quite bad operation0
it would come at the end of january or middle
next burrow
Definitely the second since Enty is the only other USN CV remotely worth using
Oh, huh... I was thinking of sara as well
alpine finch
sour oasis
Korea has tons of their own developed games.
thin cosmos
Yeah and pay to win games dominated market. However it's basically because of too many users like pay to win. Sad story.
You need to pay at least 10k USD to get just standard item settings at our market 1st profit game.
So many spent more than 100k or even millions
They tend to think a game as flex not fun
proper sorrel
bruh
sacred heath
proper sorrel
please spend money on more productive stuff
candid sluice
That just sounds like throwing away money but with more steps
sacred heath
light crystal
This seems to be some kind of glitch, same damage for both my CV's (Less than 1k, for all my battles just now), and the damage totals don't really add up. Never really seen this I think 
sacred heath
yep
light crystal
Just making sure. I do see them still dunking on shit, but the numbers at the end make u question it for a bit lol
candid sluice
Yeah cv dog count in endscreen is broken
My shinano lands all her torps and dmg count is 5k
sour oasis
elder crane
@light crystal @sacred heath @candid sluice @clear briar @sour oasis
PERFECT TIME TO LEVEL VANGUARDS GOGOGO
Take CV/L main, always MVP
sour oasis
<@!319995587644751872> <@!191766585969606661> <@!268021815316578304> <@!62284090...
||What about BBs||
candid sluice
But I’m trying to level carriers
slender atlas
is this bug? it keep show shinano dmg only around 1-2k
candid sluice
Indeed bug
candid sluice
umbral sparrow
light crystal
Yes, but u'd be using a severely weakened unit
Should probably wait till u got the skills trained and/or stats/efficiencies/etc. maxed out
candid sluice
It’s gonna be a while before she’s maxed out and ready for pvp
candid sluice
Would slower flight speed or faster flight speed be better? On one hand u can intercept incoming planes but on the other u get crash dmg sooner
thin cosmos
faster better
simply thinking, you get more damage than deal due to AA gun
ofcourse there would be some cases slower better but not much
clear briar
<@!319995587644751872> <@!191766585969606661> <@!268021815316578304> <@!62284090...
Why did you ping me at 4am when I was asleep
thin cosmos
can you see this file? this video is quite interesting
3BB won 5times withou try vs nagato+shinano+hiryuu(it's my dec)
candid sluice
Do I have to make an account first to see it?
thin cosmos
that's what I asking
that file isn't belong to me, so I can't upload it to my google drive
candid sluice
Yeah it’s making me log in first to see it
thin cosmos
kk I see. thx
high flume
Hi guys, is there any up-to-date PvP comp tier list? I couldn't find anything on reddit
elder crane
There's been some large changes and we're still waiting on resources to +13 and make wyvern plane
So right now it's hard to say anything
elder crane
Would slower flight speed or faster flight speed be better? On one hand u can in...
Plane AA damage is a joke in PvP so faster flight speed 100%
You slap for like 50-100 dmg per fighter per AA tick but planes have ~4k HP so :AkagiLUL:
Surface AA is what can be annoying if you run a crash dmg build, since crash dmg scales with remaining HP
To actually shoot down planes though means you'd need at least 2 dedicated AA ships, which is not really worth it
candid sluice
Apparently tigercat has a slower flight speed than sea hornet
So sea hornet > tigercat for pvp?
elder crane
it has ever so slightly higher crash dmg and more HP though
so maybe actually better
candid sluice
Huh didn’t know that it had more hp
thin cosmos
new planes seems have extreme hp
thin cosmos
halfway to wyvern?
elder crane
I'm still at 3 gold plane 3 rainbow plane
got 9 gun prints though, cause that's soooo useful
candid sluice
I got a rainbow AA print
candid sluice
The only reliable source of ur prints are port shops really
Haven’t gotten a single rainbow print from strongholds
somber axle
I'm still at 3 gold plane 3 rainbow plane <:PortDoll:585585241142591535>
Only 3 gold plane prints? That doesn't sound right.
storm jewel
a mode when shop reset rng is an important factor
elder crane
Only 3 gold plane prints? That doesn't sound right.
Yes 9 gun prints but only 3 plane ones 
thin cosmos
I don't know zoo rabit
midnight heron
how tf does this damage distribution even make any fking sense
im sure the game is not broken or anything
thin cosmos
that bug was reported already
what funny is that bug isn't here in Korean server so global server only problem
midnight heron
¯_(ツ)_/¯
jovial sedge
well zoo rabit - meta hyru
tender bay
How anyone could tell you about her in pvp when we full enhance her only in like 2 months?
jovial sedge
well but its more zoo bs >< and isnt it predictable from skills?
elder crane
how tf does this damage distribution even make any fking sense
Devs broke CV endcard dmg, now anything their planes do isn't counted, only ghost bombs and certain barrages
Perfect time to level vanguards since bring CV main and vanguard is 100% MVP