And then it's just rng who procs earlier
#pvp
elder crane
Standard has better chance to have vanguard survive longer cause Azuma+Jun, so it can just win on that?
Then standard defense either can't pop Hiryuu or can't kill torps
light crystal
Jun/Azuma/YKKZ? Eh, already tried that, wanna try Nsohiro instead for a bit lol
If I feel that I struggle against Juneau users alot, can always sub back in an go back...
elder crane
Yeah, no ykkz is the standard now
trail temple
cries in doesn't have azuma ready on either servers
elder crane
Mostly cause warkai much less of a threat than torps, I assume
light crystal
YKKZ is such a staple. Can survive just fine. Protects ML and even heals once, so I dont wanna drop
light crystal
Well, make sure u don't dip bellow 40 Speed then 
elder crane
And also is 
vs torps
Every torp she eats is 50% to get nuked for over half her HP
She doesn't even reach 50% evarate vs Nagato-boosted vanguard
light crystal
U must have bad RNG then
elder crane
It's not even bad RNG
Run torp vanguard yourself and enemy ykkz will pop half the time
light crystal
And Noshiro instead of YKKZ wont be any different either imo
YKKZ is more tankey and has more speed by default
So eh
elder crane
Not really, Noshiro can eat 2 torps and live and makes Azuma take 2 more torp to take down
light crystal
If u feel ur gonna get fucked by CV's regardless, then nothing much u can do
elder crane
Noshiro is much tankier vs actually getting hit by CVs though
And makes offense vs torps much easier
light crystal
Slower by default, and 1/4 chance to ignore dmg should be better than 15% Eva Rate
elder crane
Additive stacking with bulge means that lead ship can become impossible to get sniped on offense
light crystal
Which wont matter as much when Nagato boosts Acc on IJN anyway
So ti really cancels each other out in the end, between one being better than the other
elder crane
Noshiro has over twice the AA stat
She's ~1/3 less dmg taken from CV when getting hit
Also higher base HP
light crystal
HP is not that different in my case lol
elder crane
Still, I will agree that any benefit vs CV isn't too large
It's mostly that she makes offense vs torps much easier, when ykkz is a joke vs torpteam
light crystal
Maybe run different Aux on ur YKKZ then, if u think she low HP lol
light crystal
But 1/4 chance to invalidate all dmg, on top of 50 Speed, and 100* Luck
elder crane
Meanwhile higher evarate if you rudder Noshiro, +27% more HP, twice the AA stat, significantly reduces torp dmg esp on anyone already torpbulged
light crystal
Wut does AA have to do with torp dmg mitigation lol
And again, my (Current) YKKZ: Light armor (Does reduce some torp dmg), 3235 HP, 1/4 chance to ignore all damage, 203 Eva, 100* Luck, and 50 Speed.
naive dome
from my experience ykkz can't main tank against torpteam
light crystal
If u try to shoehorn in Noshiro for YKKZ, u want to commit to eating torps and trying to mitigate dmg, rather than dodging out of the way, or connecting but ending up being "Evaded". And if you're too slow, you open up urself to BB volleys, barrages and CV airstrikes lol
You can't really evenly defend against the BB, CV and torp threats all at once. You're gonna be somewhat better against something, but also ending up being somewhat worst against something else in return.
midnight heron
been running pearl/bulge juneau + beaver/fe noshiro + rudder heavy armour backline and it works somehow so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
shinano enables too much
vapid vortex
If you have to pick what to be worse against and you’re borderline with being able to compete against meta fleets, it’s a lot faster to reset when you get bad torp rng than bad everything else
light crystal
That's true, but it may artificially inflate the numbers of resets you do. At the end of the day, it's up to you what feels better. I for one don't reset until the very last moment. I've been doing Exercises rather religiously since I started playing, around fall of 2018. And if I feel I have to reset more than 5 times a season, I don't like it lol
late heath
No matter how good your fleet is, there’ll always be an 8 years old Asian kid that beat it
trail temple
<- 8 year old Asian kid
elder crane
@light crystal For offense the only threat is torps basically
Shinano disappoints and either Amagi or Hiryuu makes enemy BB teams a joke
and Hiryuu is dealt with by Warkai/tanky vanguard/own Hiryuu (if not torps vs torps)
Ykkz team vs actual torpthreat needs to both dodge torps on vanguard and also bait torps so main isn't wrecked
Noshiro-stall team can either bait or just eat half the torps, and you're only under threat if your main somehow gets nuked anyways
naive dome
shinano excels in stall battle due to her stacking debuff and her crazy plane crash damage
elder crane
the debuff really doesn't matter since it's ST
also her dmg output is too consistent/not high enough to pose a significant threat to the best teams when she's on defense
Anyways, torpbulge a lead Juneau with Noshiro and either:
- vanguard eats up to some torps, then main takes 1-2, then Juneau dies and heals it all back - then you're 5v6, but their vanguard is a torp-vanguard and should just fold over soon
- vanguard eats most torps, main takes no dmg, Juneau dies towards the end of the preloaded torps and heals back Azuma/Noshiro and it's case 1 from here on
- main gets hard nuked by torps, better hope you can bullshit-RNG out-trade them or it's time to reset
light crystal
I know Hiryuu is dealt with WK, that's why I haven't had issues... Until Shinano came along. She's tankey af, and Namashin is hard to kill with WK.
Which has prompted me to run Shinano in turn
next garden
https://imgur.com/a/9DCisim
What'd be a good pvp vanguard? I'm assuming kii + hiryuu + shinano for backline, but uhhh room, suzu, portland?
trail temple
Go torp meme and never look back
uncut agate
not even Juneau to die for your sins
I would probably go with QE+Monarch+Hiryuu or Shinano for the backline. Raise that Yukikaze
crude mortar
trail temple
inb4 doesn't have that
next garden
I mean I sent my dock
I just want to see what i can do with what I got, I'm not aiming for top of the line
somber axle
Shinano / Monarch / Hiryu + Portland / Yuki/ Juneau I guess?
next garden
I dumped my juneau
next garden
I could obviously grab one, but I just want to see what I can do with my current ships
somber axle
Your vanguard selection sucks, too many DDs.
next garden
I've just been running phoenix suzu portland cause those are my highest leveled/usually strong vanguards
trail temple
If you wanna hang around the top 5000, you can run anything and be fine
Not really but you get the general idea
somber axle
You'll need warkai, otherwise it will be hard to make a strong pvp fleet with what you have.
next garden
I'm not aiming for a strong fleet
just what's the best I can pull off with my current ships
trail temple
You'll need warkai, otherwise it will be hard to make a strong pvp fleet with what you have.
Decent even
somber axle
I listed what you should go for, Juneau is a 35% heal.
trail temple
25%*
next garden
Thanks
somber axle
Phoenix might be better than Portland, 103 Portland is really bad since no evade.
trail temple
and CAs in general are meh
blazing scroll
Portland kinda has a special position as a CA because of the high base stats including eva
light crystal
Do Jintsuu, Naganami, and Noshiro all stack with each other?
If so, their synergy would be VERY nutty
midnight heron
dats y they meta bruh
naive dome
do jintsuu, naganami and noshiro stack multiplicatively or additively?
as in, their TRP bonus is 1+(0.2+0.2+0.15)=1.55 or 1.2*1.2*1.15=1.656?
dire stream
i believe buffs are just additive
sour oasis
Poverty PvP is still PvP.
crude mortar
PoVertyPlayer
elder crane
@naive dome
Just additive yeah
light crystal
@elder crane Wuts the best torp to run on Naganami? I was considering a combo of IJN 610mm Quads + 533mm Mag Aux.
light crystal
Because of skill?
light crystal
533mm does not interact with first proc of skill at 10s does it?
elder crane
The skill acts like a torpedo launch
There's some technical stuff for PvE that's not relevant for PvP
Basically, if you hold the preload, then the 10 s launch gets black torpaux skill effect but doesn't use it up
So the preload that's being held still benefits
light crystal
Because I want to run a torp Defense, whilst running a different Attack, priority on the 2 Mag Rainbows I got will go to Attack. Thus, for Naganami at least, what''s better: Gold Quad Mags or gold Quint Mags?
elder crane
For defense, probably quints, since def is closer in
So edge torps for the quint spread still can hit fairly often
light crystal
I see. And anyways, as for reload, the Skill is timed anyways, so it will always proc at the same time regardless of Reload on equipped torps, so yeah, gold quint mags would be superior anyway. More fish on the water, higher chances to hit something.
Gonna be really nutty having Nos/Naga/Jin Defense.
Can easily 1 tap Shinano lmao
elder crane
Can easily 1 tap any main and a lot of vanguard too
Inc ykkz 
Nagato buffed vanguard hit stat is ridiculously high, so ykkz is 50/50 to get nuked for every torp she eats
light crystal
I mean, if u think so, use big bren move and squeeze YKKZ in middle then, to be better protected from torps
light crystal
midnight heron
numbers just get higher and shes only 115 lmao
sacred heath
That's been my attack vanguard for months
I honestly don't know if I'd swap any of them out for azuma
But that's just me
crude jetty
@midnight heron what setup do you run on Shinano?
naive dome
shinano's crash damage is insane
crude jetty
thank you! 
midnight heron
anyway dont realistically expect to see the numbers i posted cuz it was vs nanoryu (aka 2 cv so lots of plane kills)
crude jetty
I thought double ryu would be the best for shinano
midnight heron
only for def tbh
unless you can consistently kill their vg early in the fight
else most of your ryuusei gonna miss
elder crane
Imo not even for def
Main slot Ryuus is already enough to nuke even on def
sacred heath
fkn 34 point delta on my top option
fml
royal oyster
seeing +34 a lot means you're doing well
naive dome
where/how do I check for health of plane ?
light crystal
Wuts better, Noshiro lead, or Jintsu first? Also, Speeds are 35/42/35. U need 1 Boiler in there to get to 120, so average Speed is 40. So... how would u set up the gear?
I feel a combination of 1 Dildo for each, then 1/2 Boilers, and Rudder on Noshiro... Going full Dildo is a bit eh.
light crystal
She tanks better, dunno
elder crane
Can get to reload torps on everyone maybe
Jint lead 100% dies before fires torps again
light crystal
Yeh.
elder crane
Maybe even dies before Naganami extra torps
light crystal
Noshiro first has at least a better chance at second torp wave
elder crane
Trailing Jint usually gets reload off anyways
So any chance of Noshiro doing it in lead is bonus, since you're trading off vanguard anyways
light crystal
Anyway, wut Aux would u use on the 3
elder crane
Don't forget that torps calc dmg based on stats of ship when hitting
light crystal
At least one of them needs a Boiler to meet 40 Average speed
light crystal
🤔
elder crane
It's fast enough to maybe dodge BB/C, and vanguard fight is decided by the time CVs launch
CVs hit after first torps reload anyways
light crystal
So 35/35/42 Ok then? That's 37.3 Speed instead of 40.
elder crane
Just needs to be enough to dodge BBHE
light crystal
🤔
elder crane
Without Azuma no need to worry about BBAP and vanguard is already done for by time dodging CV would matter
They're dead after CV strike anyways, very much cannot rely on a 2nd reload of torps
light crystal
Anyway, wut would Jintsuu use. Bulge/Dildo? Then wut for Nag? Dildo/Tears? And I guess Noshi can be Rudder/Dildo.
elder crane
Even stall vanguard doesn't always make it to 40 s much less torps
It's just mass dildo basically
light crystal
Eww
elder crane
With pearl usually
Otherwise you don't really hit the breakpoints for amt of torp dmg anyways
light crystal
Wait, nvm
elder crane
The whole point is that the preload is actually strong enough to immediately make a diff
Half dead isn't good enough
light crystal
well, u want a minimum of 3 Dildos, one each. Thinking wut to put on Noshiro
elder crane
Technically you could do 2 since Naga using mags anyways
If you want survivability, run the Noshiro-Ibuki setup instead basically
light crystal
Dildo supply low. Gonna see how many can spare.
elder crane
Dw oxytorps not even meta on most subs anymore
light crystal
Worst comes to worst do got these too I guess tho
light crystal
Nah, I use Snorkel/Dildo. Got 4 subs equipped at all times, so 4 Dildos allocated to them.
Cannot be arsed to waste on anything but Beacons, VF17's, Dildos and Shells.
trail temple
My pvp fleet uses subs, very applicable
naive dome
torpteam with shinano instead of hiryuu is surprisingly easy to defeat
crude mortar
why would anyone using only shinano without hiryu tho
trail temple
Personally, I found shinano and hiryuu squishier than having amagi
elder crane
It's quite questionable for offense yeah, the mirror is waaaay too unstable
Even though it wrecks everything else pretty hard
craggy vessel
Anyone know the best main guns for Cheshire and Drake?
Hard to find any info on them as I'm assuming not everyone has them dev 30
wet gorge
is fighting higher fleet power players give more xp?
elder crane
@craggy vessel
Cheshire has no reason to not use standard options
Drake takes cheshire gun if you don't have drake gun available for her
trail temple
is fighting higher fleet power players give more xp?
Not necessarily, it's their level
elder crane
XP scales with the sum of the levels of all enemy ships
yes, that means reduced XP if they aren't running full fleet or a low-lv meme fleet, and yes that's why it's considered friendly to run 6 unequipped lv 100+ ships in defense
wet gorge
tough estuary
what should I filler with richelieu on defense if I've got sanrui / jda / yukikaze backline
thinking amagi / hiryuu
wet gorge
Aight guess ill use a defense fleet with lvl 100 ships with no gears equipped
It aint much but its honest work
delicate egret
storm jewel
set the best i want some good fights 
rich escarp
Better do it, that Unicorn looks serious
vapid vortex
Lost 9 matches this season between lack of attention and missing resets. Still managed to get AotN. Why did I used to think it was hard?
sacred heath
that's surprising and impressive
i lost one and thought i was hosed
vapid vortex
Being on and burning the exercises the instant they drop is a necessity when you flub heavily like I did this season. Got up to r4 at 3 mins after and already down to 22 after 11 mins
royal oyster
it depends on when you miss them. earlier resets can be made up, while if you drop a lot on the second week you're in trouble
sacred heath
So when you're rushing at the end what do you even do when all your opponents are lower ranked? Just suck it up?
midnight heron
if ur objective is to aotn w/e the cost then u wont gaf about losing point bonus
sacred heath
And I guess if you care about final ranking you don't rush
midnight heron
ofc
sacred heath
Meh. Got my 2500 merit. I'm good with that 
midnight heron
final rank is just for bragging rights so if u just want merit its inconsequential
royal oyster
saturday and sunday rushing is also a lot easier than the one today
trail temple
Epic
elder crane
So when you're rushing at the end what do you even do when all your opponents ar...
Actually in the final rush, as long as you still have enough pt to hit AotN, you straight ignore what rank players are, all you care about is how fast you can beat their team
Even taking +8 is fine if it means you kill in under 30 s
If I do 5 +9 in the time it takes ppl to do 3 +11, I can make up for a 22 pt deficit
Or for ppl to do 4 +10, I'm still ahead 5 pts where I would otherwise be at that time
sour oasis
Assuming you run into people who don't have flex defense fleets 🎲
proper sorrel
my beautifully decorated amagi suruga hiryuu jda sheffield juneau 
sour oasis
Also this only goes for day 13 and 14 for new players; don't attempt on day 12 if taking +80 won't even move you past 2200
trail temple
Season dead
candid sluice
How effective is suzutsukis smoke against torpmemes?
crude jetty
I think it misses timing? 3sec after start might be too late..
sacred heath
got some reliable rushers for my first one 
royal oyster
it says 1
keen obsidian
how to fight those who do not put tears on Juneau?
keen obsidian
first wave I kill 1 person and they heal back to full and I lose 2 ships, not winning this one
trail temple
jovial sedge
Have anyone encoutered my fleet on sandy ?
trail temple
Why? Are you offering free exp service or something?
jovial sedge
Service indeed 
crude jetty
you like that bra shape, right? 
trail temple
Service indeed <:TaihouSmug:585585242312540160> <:StanLick:666111453362782226>
Consider my curiosity piqued
jovial sedge
Technically no single of those ladies there is wearing a bra but shape is indeed superior
coral wren
What should I change on Ayanami for PvP? (I know she's not the best option since she is a destroyer)
candid sluice
crude mortar
midnight heron
those gear make me 
elder crane
@coral wren
Twin 100 mm main gun, black torpaux with quad 610 mm if you have that, or at least use rainbow quints if you have that
Otherwise that's about it
empty owl
What about it?
empty owl
Oh ok
Um but can I have a reason because queen is a good buff
And Dido is a damage monster
sacred heath
queenE's buff isn't enough to justify her otherwise meh performance
sacred heath
dido not a damage monster in pvp
empty owl
O-ok
empty owl
I-I still need the second xp
sacred heath
the problem is there's very little room for experimentation at the upper levels of pvp
the meta is pretty set
and most of us here are also kinda locked in that mindset
if your queenE/dido fleet is working, then great
but there will come a time where it will stop working
crude mortar
using dido?
let me introduce you holy trinity
enemy using this as defend fleet
glhf
sacred heath
bye bye dido
crude mortar
let me tell you this
three jitsu torp deal 27k dmg if 3 out of 4 or 5 hit
27k 27k 27k
glhf
this isn't even ultimate form
the next one is plane dive bomb applying burn
not sure what they smoke when they releasing content tho
elder crane
@empty owl
Alternatively, Juneau
+25% HP for rest of team is gud
sacred heath
Rainbow plates too 
trail temple
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/706063414488727594/780440398996308009/video0.mov
Thoughts on this fleet, this torp is INSANE
keen obsidian
lost a match cuz I bring in a ship and forgot to add equip...
late heath
Lol
royal oyster
live by the torpmeme, die by the torpmeme
topaz blade
what equips should i put on shinano?
midnight heron
equip ykkz so she becomes shinanoda
topaz blade
ok, is this good?
midnight heron
wow bruh u actually did it
topaz blade
yeah i need some more plates to +10 ykkz tho
midnight heron
im running dis rn cuz testing nanoryu with junshima
or shud it be called nanaryu kek
late heath
Why not replace the first slot with torpedo or dive bomber?
midnight heron
idk man i prefer more surface dmg
better to wipe vg than deal crash dmg
https://youtu.be/3D4Yr1arqcY ideally dis happens
wipe vg then final counter backline
elder crane
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/706063414488727594/780440398996308009/vid...
You'll also enjoy when everyone whiffs torps
I had a match where I almost had to reset vs some shitty weird fleet after I landed exactly 1 out of 18 torps
trail temple
F
midnight heron
also not using db for 1st slot cuz her reload slow af rn
and well theres always aa bait
so reppu/2x1k bomb plane is still a gud choice
elder crane
More like VF-17 for +5% AA vs other CV
Hiryuu launches earlier if you run her, so she's running Hornet for me
coral wren
How do I dislodge this thing? I’ve tried every method but it doesn’t work.
I tried taking out the shin first but she’s too tanky, take out warspite first and shin can still launch airstrikes;
midnight heron
if u cant beat meta fleets with w/e u got, it just means u need better fleet/gear
frail orbit
Just do mirror
Ez
elder crane
@coral wren
What are you running and what do you have
It might actually be almost impossible depending on what you have available though
coral wren
This is what I’m using; I mean, not meta or anything, but I thought it would be enough.
crude mortar
why amagi tanking enemy warspite
fire supressor on yukikaze
maybe also sandy fire supressor
midnight heron
if u were trying to snipe u shudve placed monarch opposite shinano/ws
then ws diagonal
then give mamagi vh to tank nagatoot
elder crane
Ws flag Monarch top Amagi bottom?
midnight heron
dat works as well 
elder crane
I'd personally prolly try to dmg race ws vs ws
Ws+Monarch+Amagi should be able to kill his ws first even if 410AP vs 457
elder crane
This is what I’m using; I mean, not meta or anything, but I thought it would be ...
What's the equipment on everyone again?
coral wren
why amagi tanking enemy warspite
Oh ehhh, warspite and amagi are supposed to switch places, I just forgot to do it here 
coral wren
What's the equipment on everyone again?
Amagi has a 381 twin (+8) warspite has a +10 mk6, monarch has the twin skc (+10 too) and vanguard has +9 rudders (except for yukikaze who has double +7 toolboxes instead) and most of their main guns are above +7.
coral wren
Ws flag Monarch top Amagi bottom? <:BuckyPride:666111441786372158>
Honestly I don’t know if I’m high but monarch is absolutely terrible at tanking, enemy warspite destroys her
elder crane
Amagi has a 381 twin (+8) warspite has a +10 mk6, monarch has the twin skc (+10 ...
Equipment setup is waaaay wrong so that's probably why
Check the doc pinned for loadouts, those aren't too dated
Vanguard especially doesn't take rudders
Those go on main fleet
bronze hedge
Between nagato amagi warspite and nagato amagi rainbow 6* carrier (forgot her name) which one better ?
Tag mw if you guys can help me
Decide
late heath
I’d choose Nagato Amagi Shinano if it was me
late heath
Nagato Shinano Hiryuu?
crude mortar
always hiryu
sacred heath
Yeah I guess I just had bad rng
And it feels bad to watch warspite waste some shots on hiryuu
hot creek
pog
wet gorge
I wish entys skill procs 100%
It wont use her skill at pvp i think my enty is broken or something
midnight heron
uss new meta /s
solemn comet
why is it only USS? kinda too limited
frail orbit
bronze hedge
What is the best team comp right now btw?
hot creek
cause USS could use a buff. Also USS known for having good damage control during the war.
midnight heron
they prob releasing 1 type of gear for each faction 
for me best comp rn nanaryu + junshima
still havent faced major competition yet so cant say for sure im gonna stick with it
frail orbit
Btw, some said it's a shitty Hiryuu right?
It aint even close, Hiryuu slides out an airstrike when she died anyway alongside that zombie, while with that. . .
Unless u played out some big thonkang strat to line up the airstrike
Or just slap it on Jun
midnight heron
yea its prob only gonna be useful on jun for delaying procs
and well also the fact that enemy vg cant slide into your backline if you still got a ship standing
so i dont see it being used on any backline
leaden solar
my juneu like refuse to die vs torpedoes meme
jovial sedge
Just if tll be enough
abstract cypress
USS buff
jovial sedge
This friggin zoo brokeness might even beat that... That aux on enty
abstract cypress
at least something not ijn
jovial sedge
Will see
midnight heron
hp aa lmao
candid sluice
HP and AA
jovial sedge
Well
abstract cypress
its like those mic
midnight heron
make juneau tankier and shoot more planes
jovial sedge
Still wont be enough on zoo would thin depends maybe if enty procs
Also i doubt ull have more than one
Of those
abstract cypress
great
jovial sedge
Oh
abstract cypress
ive max them for ages waitin them to update it
midnight heron
abstract cypress
cumming soon
candid sluice
Yikes I retired a lot of those collection ships
jovial sedge
Yorktown sheesh thinkint how she was key factor for winning midway would thought she would be like 2nd enty .. deserves a huge kai there
jovial sedge
There is no uss pvp
abstract cypress
helen,reno,jesus?
jovial sedge
But i use helena for my fights
frail orbit
I forgot last time USS got any front loaded dmg ships
midnight heron
rarely any fleets run pure uss lul
abstract cypress
midnight heron
shinaNO
jovial sedge
And here im around 3k ppl thinking i could exp my other ships all i see is zoo facetorping you like crazy no matter the rank u jump around... Pvp is just one sad place
midnight heron
ppl just pvp for merit so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
abstract cypress
pvp is for flex
jovial sedge
And yet it doesnt matter for defense
candid sluice
If you can’t beat em join em
midnight heron
i lose even with meta 
jovial sedge
I got my epic fleet for defending i thought im at least bringing joy for the men of culture not a friggin cancer
abstract cypress
thats rich ppl flexing
jovial sedge
Hmm rich would be guess all oathed and the most expensive skins
I went for the hull size
abstract cypress
its rich + horny
midnight heron
sry but im more interested in ass so put a drake in there 
jovial sedge
I think all of em got curves there but im more upper man
frail orbit
I do both
jovial sedge
jovial sedge
Whole pica of those ships got that covered would say
jovial sedge
For AL?
abstract cypress
well no but same thing
jovial sedge
Hmm
abstract cypress
the only skin i bought is nanoda swing
jovial sedge
They could make overlay like that hmm but guess it would breach security snd such
abstract cypress
that one cute on dorm
back to topic any suggestion for uss vg
with full cv backlin
jovial sedge
Helena juneau and somth
frail orbit
No proper tank
jovial sedge
Maybe numba 1 dunno
midnight heron
those considered meme tier
jovial sedge
Rip but like em like that can have 2x taihoe
abstract cypress
we have like balti, brementon, helen, mine, sandy
eva wise helen might be the champ
uss are freakin mobber
frail orbit
U forgot that movespeed is important
abstract cypress
sad ca noises
frail orbit
Closest we got is
Portkai
Just slap Gyro, Cosmic Kicks
Since her evasion is already big anyway for a CA
Alas, still wont hit 40spd
abstract cypress
i put 2 rudders on her with 2 boiler on jesus
port ded 1st mostly
ca so sad in pvp
frail orbit
Alas, cant be helped
abstract cypress
sandy
abstract cypress
helen have anti torp +eva passive
frail orbit
I meant
U want torp
Bkoz
In the end
U wanna GO FUXKING KILL BACKLINE
U cannot let ur VGs just staying alive
And we know that VG guns are just derp at it
Bkoz no trash to be cleared
abstract cypress
helen have debuff
frail orbit
The reason why gunbote ever got to be OPOP in PVE is bkoz
Trash clear
@abstract cypress ask bluerendar
Or just scroll his messages from long ago
Helen debuff means nothing when the VG gun pellets still have lower base dmg than torps
abstract cypress
i dont find anythin
helen debuff for backline tho
oh preaload thing
u cant get nuked when it dont hit
fuck meta btw
frail orbit
@abstract cypress
u can get nuked when it dont hit
@abstract cypress u sure about it?
Keks
abstract cypress
cant
abstract cypress
im using kms mysel
frail orbit
Just gonna wait til u reach acceptance stage
jovial sedge
But fear not, all are not vermin and we few brave dont ever use zoo cancer in pvp
Nor shall we fall so low
jovial sedge
Begone faul demon
abstract cypress
good thing theres few cancer on lex
jovial sedge
But ye sadly even ijn got 1st place in hull size... Rip
frail orbit
As if u are worthy enuff to be a big dish for us
And lol reset gang
Imagine getting haloistd so much
@midnight heron see, those plebs are just like u
jovial sedge
Ill rather 1000 times reset than use broken bonkers dev favorite ijn
abstract cypress
man of culture
jovial sedge
Ye ofc not for 2years straight top broken pvp ijn
Been here that long conplaining well
jovial sedge
Still u should use ijn shit yuki for it
midnight heron
its k to get haloisted if u wanna farm exp kek
frail orbit
And imagine so pleb to not even able to afford FDG D25 at least to tank shit
its k to get haloisted if u wanna farm exp kek
@midnight heron sounds like sus on bad luck
Imagine not finding small fry rushers
jovial sedge
Stilk my fdg far from dev 25: / that tesm in terms getting is insane cost compared to your daily ijn zoo cancer oh u just dropped the most broken ships there ...all you need is lvl and skills maxed
frail orbit
Alas, better sleep than pvp if for that
Stilk my fdg far from dev 25: / that tesm in terms getting is insane cost compared to your daily ijn zoo cancer oh u just dropped the most broken ships there ...all you need is lvl and skills maxed
@jovial sedge 🐳 lah
Muh coobs rese n face go brrrr
jovial sedge
Well dunno i did care before more for this but after it got so stupidly bad in pvp 2 years starting with amagu and noth was changing i stopped to play pretty much so just logs in once per day
frail orbit
jovial sedge
And thus getting all those bp for fdg takes time
frail orbit
Still no excuse
abstract cypress
amagi meta was the most cancer
frail orbit
Alas, if u were just casual I think its just fine
jovial sedge
What i dont check game every min for dev
abstract cypress
jovial sedge
And still is
uncut agate
Disregarding their levels, can any help me in making a competent PvP vanguard? 
jovial sedge
What standards? Zoo? : /
midnight heron
but u cant disregard lvls if u wanna hav better time in pvp
abstract cypress
put ur highest lvl ships, viola
jovial sedge
I actually got all zoo ships but meh would never
uncut agate
Okay then 👍
jovial sedge
Bleh thst dev cost is still too much would rather trade all azuma bps for fdg or somth but guess its more than 100bps between dev 20 till25
abstract cypress
if u want competitive one u should synergize it with ur backline
or put random ijn bs and call it a day
jovial sedge
Never fall too low brave knights and go with ijn bs...
uncut agate
I'm using Richy, Centy, Amagi
they've been pretty consistent so far.
crude mortar
bois
they stop ignoring pvp
is this some kind of out of season april fool joke
flag ship cv increase whole cv dmg 10% and reduce enemy bb dmg by 10% with 40 aviation!!!11
and only work in exercise!
candid sluice
🛫🛫💥
red blade
Damn this room is quiet eh?
crude mortar
ofc it quiet
good player immigrate to somewhere else and leave the plebs to rot here
dim portal
Is Suzutsuki good for pvp?
jovial sedge
Oh finally some proper boost
But dont worry new rainbow ijn fleet will be released with it... Also 1cube construct so you better catch em all
Dont sucumb to ijn
Be brave
round tide
silent ocean
hmm could one front load cv damage with a decent vanguard or are the ships that buff said backline too squishy for pvp?
crude mortar
there'll be update on december that cv dive bomber apply burning
combined with that
and this
era of battleship is over
jovial sedge
Hmm i wonder
I wonder
This is ijn zoo bias there we talking
We already have one broken bonkers never to exist ijn cv shinaNO , I expect more rainhoe ijn inc and special gear... They just wouldnt make ijn weak now after all this would they?
abstract cypress
suzutsuki is good, but nanoda exist
crude mortar
but suzutsuki dont die againts plane next patch 
candid sluice
Akaga coming back? 
crimson bear
Left one
elder crane
Left one is basically strict upgrade of the right in PvP
in PvE it's usually a slight downgrade, and both are downgrades of gold catapult
sour oasis
Which one is better for the immune bunny?
Hiryu vs Hiryu, left one might give you that killing blow assuming (1.) only equipment is unequal, l (2.) you're insane enough to whittle both fleets down to Hiryu vs Hiryu.
My focus on building Hiryu is either (1.) she's equipped to damage while retaining that 15s insurance buffer in case I have to retreat, (2.) everyone's going to die and she dies last adding 15s to the fight.
storm jewel
the guy litterally stop my torp meme shinaryu 4/5 times 
sour oasis
Play 5 more times. Sounds like bad RNG 🎲
storm jewel
too close to reset, cant lol
sour oasis
But yeah, could be Yukikaze turning on her defense skill or boilers diverting your attacks.
granite flame
holy shit they added a pvp item
after 8 years
less damage from BB and cruiser seems nice
large cruiser included ?
ancient skiff
most likely
sacred heath
ehhh
$5 says it's just BB/BC
granite flame
What’s this one 
sacred oracle
8 second Hiryuu passive for eagle union ships
light crystal
@elder crane Wut u think of new AVI Aux for PvP mate
The 8s thing is probably only useful for Juneau
Can tank torps
ancient skiff
if the invisibility goes out they just die no? 
light crystal
If only the new AVI Aux didn't have the requirement to be on a FS CV, it would be really strong
As it stands, it can be viably on Shinano FS, and Hiryuy side, or even Shinano Akaga. But regardless, you'd be missing on 20% AVI dmg buff from Nagato
It could maybe be viable on some wacky WASD/Ent, with Ent middle, WASD side. Main issue, WASD lacks firepower that so many other options have, so it's also meh
crude mortar
just intrepidmid essex enty side and davai
sour oasis
if the invisibility goes out they just die no? <:nimiconfused:755514335819857950...
If it works like pearl on Hiryu, the invincibility activates at HP=0, which is also when Martyr activates.
slender atlas
which one to snipe first if face nagato hyryu shinano?
storm jewel
personally hiryuu
light crystal
WK always snipes Hiryuu first.
storm jewel
Does anyone know how to counter the rainbow fleet?
those are fee win if u not underleveled and geared properly
umbral sparrow
those are fee win if u not underleveled and geared properly
No no
I mean the REAL rainbow fleet
Like max dev everything
storm jewel
full fleet of maxed deved prs are not scary at all in pvp tho
its just flexing
with some good ships around 120 and some good gears u can beat them easily
sacred heath
Yeah even max dev full rainbow is free win
Sandy and Drake not that great
And little synergy with FdG/nano/warkai
solemn comet
rainbow fleet is ez win
umbral sparrow
Huh ok
I might gonna try nagahiryshi fleet later
But pillar fox still the best lmao
keen obsidian
fuk forgot about daylight savings...guess I lost 4 fight attempts
candid sluice
Same 
🔫
ancient skiff
theres still like 50mins left
blazing scroll
elder crane
@light crystal
why thanks, I'll take you buffing my Hiryuu and Shinano
Ah, symmetric effects...
that's my opinion on that aux
It doesn't stack either
not like Nagato Shinano Hiryuu has issues vs BB teams at all to begin with, really
light crystal
WUT THE FUCK
I feel some of these items can actually sorta affect the opening salvos of torpedoes
Maybe they released them with trying to reign in Torpedo dmg somehow...
sacred heath
Marie rose new torpmeme meta
lime rivet
Marie Rose -> 508 torpedo, first 3 torpedo launches do 50% more damage
sacred heath
Only like 140 eff but still good
light crystal
Good thing Marie was one of my fave DoA charas at least
On the plus side, she doesn't benefit from Nagato's Reload/Acc buffs
lime rivet
I legit want to try Nosh/Naganami/Marie now...
light crystal
She would get buffed from Naganami/Jin/Noshiro tho
sacred heath
Nosh/marie/jint I think
Who needs the 10s salvo
storm jewel
naganami buff the shit out of jint/nosh 610 black torp so...
hard to replace that sync
sacred heath
We'll see
50% damage buff and 15% stat buff on marie is not nothing
elder crane
@light crystal
Nagato Shinano Hiryuu is now meta calling it now kthx
run WNT+Semaphore on Nagato (she's just a statstick anyways)
WNT is stronger than you might think since main flt already has -20% penalty
so -15% on top of that is effectively 81.25% dmg modifier if no other effects
Nagato even stronger in that case since taking CV from 65% mod to 85% mod is effectively a 130% dmg multiplier
And between the two aux, torps are now shit
light crystal
WNT?
elder crane
Washington naval treaty, the -15% dmg one
@sacred heath
that dmg buff just makes up for her shit effs so nah
and nothing else special
while her main torps might be one of the best by a hair, she has no barrage and no fleet buffs, so
will be good but boring for PvE, that's it
light crystal
I mean, I was already running Nagato/Shin/Hiryuu. Performance has been eh so far. Nothing outstanding, but not too terrible either, I guess mostly on grounds of losing Eva Rate from Amagi lol
elder crane
Expect it to get a significant boost
light crystal
Hmm, u dont think Marie Rose will be good in IJN Torp buff setups?
elder crane
Nagato just stat stick anyways, exhibit one
for PvP?
naaaah
She has no torp barrage/double launch/fleet buffs
anyways, eagle DCP on Jun, mmmm idk really, seems a bit sketch tbh, but maybe
you might want that +0 for EX mode though so
light crystal
The main downside I saw was 140% Torp eff, but she could work with Noshi/Nag/Jin. Granted, wont get Reload/Acc buffs from Nagato, also another downside
elder crane
140% eff means her torp dmg on launch is less (pretty sure) than skill-proc Aya, and doesn't have 20s barrage
and is much short of Naganami for the 10 s total
frail orbit
Which is why am skeptical of Marie on 1st look
Otherwise all being meh for PVP anyways
elder crane
all of them are meh for PvE and no dedicated PvP skills, so yeah
frail orbit
And speaking of PVE
Honk imagine 404 FP, Monica is just Mushroom but worse smh
elder crane
anyways with WNT torpmemes maybe back to memez now anyways
frail orbit
Not sure about it
light crystal
Well, at worst u can still shoehorn her in on your PvP fleet, due to waifu reasons. Would still be viable, but yeah, low synergy would be eh to be optimal use I suppose.
frail orbit
And she aint my waifu either so 
light crystal
U also think that the new equips can blunt the effectiveness of torps? Like at a glance I also saw them as potentially dampening the effectiveness of torp fleets if used correctly.
Granted, you'd have t use said equips
Else torp meta still effective
frail orbit
About WNT
It's a bit derp that we debuffed ourselves smh
elder crane
torp defense before black torpaux was still meme, even with Naga
though close
how much did black torpaux boost initial dmg output?
4x206 base instead of 5x145 base dmg, so just +13% dmg, + better spread
On def the extra range doesn't matter
light crystal
I dont see everyone using the new equips right away and effectively on their fleets anyway
elder crane
so -15% undoes what black torpaux does and more
and black torpaux on second launch is a large downgrade
and you have semaphore too
frail orbit
Front faced dmg and all
frail orbit
Semaphore seems fine tho for tanking that
elder crane
anyways torpmemes will now be worse off than they were before black torpaux, so probably it's really just memez now
midnight heron
-dmg dealt doesnt affect fires right?
elder crane
yeah DoT all bypasses it, which is something to note
I'm interested to see if a 3CV build emerges
one of the main issues w 3CV right now is that it takes too long for main to do anything
but -15% dmg might buy the time needed
frail orbit
@elder crane still, lack of front faced dmg would still need to be proven whether it's worth or not.
Otherwise would just play safe with FDG Shina wall
elder crane
No way you take FdG
Nagato too important to offset -15% dmg
Well, unless you're just being annoying on def
frail orbit
And yeah am running it just bkoz I like being a wall to stall myself 
@elder crane naaa I meant flag on Nugget lah
rocky shadow
Nagashiryuu lack of Eva boost
elder crane
It's actually pretty fine already, you just punch back real hard with Nagato boosted Shinano-Hiryuu
And now you can nerf their dmg while nerfing your dmg much less
frail orbit
Nugget boosted 2CV still wont hit hard as Wakai do anyway
rocky shadow
You need to use torp meme to effective
frail orbit
Also the need of torpmemes
elder crane
Torpmemes is real dead
rocky shadow
2cv needed torp fleet
elder crane
It works worse with torps actually
rocky shadow
Since you replace amagi with hiryuu
rocky shadow
Why worse with torps?
elder crane
And is about same vs anything else
The torp vs torps mirror is too unstable without Amagi
Literally a coinflip
elder crane
Anyways with -15% dmg and semaphore, torps is now worse off than they were before black torpaux when on defense
Nah that aux is just worse
rocky shadow
With amagi + new aux enemy will have more debuff
elder crane
Dmg was never the issue with the setup
elder crane
You murder shit
The main issue is reaching that point since as you noted, no Amagi
But the offensive boost of Nagato is stronger, as long as stuff gets to launch
rocky shadow
Yeah you need to clear enemy vg as soon as possible
elder crane
Between -15% dmg drawing things out (and making Nagato boost even better)
frail orbit
And imagine on RNG for that torp to hit vgs
elder crane
And semaphore nerfing torps harder
rocky shadow
If too long your mf will be dead quick
elder crane
What?
It doesn't matter though
Shinano-Hiryuu first strike murders vanguard and really smashes into main fleet
The issue is your vanguard surviving until then
rocky shadow
If enemy use amagi and you not, you have disadvantage -9% stats
elder crane
Shinano doesn't even get to land second strike half the time
Again, Nagato boost is stronger than Amagi's
You get much more dmg buff than you get survivability buff, especially with the new -15% dmg aux
rocky shadow
okay if that work for you
elder crane
Nagato bringing CV from base 65% to 85% dmg mod means that's effectively 130% dmg multiplier
And she also boosts accuracy
elder crane
On def it's too fragile yea
Issue is, again, making it to Shinano/Hiryuu launches before vanguard is dead
For now
Maybe with new aux that changes
frail orbit
U cannot outstall anything with left and right side of the wall tho
At least u could smash em but alas
elder crane
If meta shifts enough, we might even see the mics on CVs 
rocky shadow
I just concern about cv trop miss
frail orbit
Seems fine but nothing beats rudder
frail orbit
At least less Wakai supremacy now
elder crane
Warkai barrage will still smack, but guns will be weaker yea
rocky shadow
Well since Shinano come wakai become easy to beat
elder crane
Barrage having dmg boost mod on it
frail orbit
Also
elder crane
Also that, Nagato Shinano Hiryuu doesn't even have troubles vs BB team to begin with really
frail orbit
NO FUXKIN NEED FOR A 2ND 457 WWWWWWWW
rocky shadow
Now most meta i see either Shinano or hiryuu
elder crane
I'd maybe reconsider 457 on FdG/warkai even
elder crane
Between warkai now going to really struggle with focusing anything down (so DoT has time to do work) and Dot untouched while shelling dmg is nerfed, idk
frail orbit
Well yea but actually I slapped it on FDG now
elder crane
Warkai barrage will still smack though since the dmg boost is much less affected
frail orbit
Just bkoz Wakai could just screw it with Champgun
And anyway I dont even use Wakai nowadays
light crystal
So wut would u put on Nagato again
frail orbit
Koz screw that, I want ultimate wall on attack for the lulz
light crystal
If using Shin/Hir
light crystal
Wut stats do they give, besides Effects?
frail orbit
Beaver now on whom?
light crystal
Decent for a BB
light crystal
Again, decent for Nagato
rocky shadow
Now is beaver buff work if ship equpped sink?
elder crane
Yes
light crystal
And wut effects do they have?
rocky shadow
Maybe put on Shinano or hiryuu
elder crane
And I mean all, your fleet and their fleet
elder crane
Semaphore absorbs 24% of dmg taken by vanguard for, uh
I forgot, something like 12 s?
light crystal
The question is... Does the ship using it take the Damage instead, like Sodak skill does?
elder crane
Yep
light crystal
Fuck.
frail orbit
6s only
light crystal
Nagato can get 1 shotted if VG eats all the torps then lel
elder crane
That's better outcome than vanguard getting nuked though
rocky shadow
I think wnt and beaver still decent
elder crane
And -15% dmg means torps are weaker than they were before black torpaux
elder crane
And yeah it's Nagato, she's just there for her buff basically, on offense
Embarassing dmg when no barrage, which is half the time, and misses most main gun shots, which is quite often too
light crystal
Downside of her going down sooner tho is no occasional Thicc Seven to murder the enemy VG, or assistance with Stronk secondaries.
elder crane
The secs is my concern
frail orbit
She's just a CL gun battle station anyway
elder crane
Depends on if w -15% dmg and semaphore skill, that you always win Vg fight or not
frail orbit
elder crane
RN I don't with my builds
Very occasionally Nagato needs to clean up
Mostly though when vanguard dies before my CVs hit
light crystal
I've seen my Nagato do thicc 5k salvos with her 457 on backliners near the end of the battle
rocky shadow
Well, nagato barrage rarely procs when im attack
elder crane
Well, reliability is everything on offense basically
light crystal
Yeah, on clean up her 457 shots on remaining backliners can be clutch
elder crane
And Nagato herself is anything but
rocky shadow
So just put defense/support aux to her become useful
light crystal
Well, gotta see how goo she does with ur set up
elder crane
Also
Thoughts on DCP for Juneau
I think maybe vanguard aux slots too crowded already, and benefit isn't enough
We'll see though
light crystal
Im thinking Juneau with that Zombie aux, Azuma middle... And either YKKZ or Noshiro rear.
elder crane
Given usually Azuma outlives jun by more than 8s, and missing an engine means you'll eat more dmg, idk if it's worth
Jun just gets extra 8s and doesn't even delay her heal
elder crane
In Azuma setup, that's quite rare
Especially if you lead Juneau, especially if you run Noshiro
light crystal
So u thinking the Flags on Nagato should do enough damage soaking to keep Juneau alive for longer as-is anyway?
rocky shadow
In noshiro setup jun sometimes life last when suppose to died early
light crystal
Like, if u run Azum with Heels/Gyro, YKKz with Boiler/FE/Etc, and Juneau without any Speed Aux, ur already at 122 VG speed.
Then run that Zombie Aux on Juneau + Tears
Yeah, I like that. Then Just run Nagato + Shin/Hiryu/Amagi.
I think I got myself a new comp right there
Gonna be an adventure on which of the other 2 Mainlines, excluding Nagato, to put Beaver tho
jovial sedge
So in the end thar pvp item doesnt seems so great what is 10% tho ...
I knew it looked too good to be true
light crystal
If ur referring to the Avi Aux that nerfs BB dmg while boosting AVI dmg, main issue is that the ship using it has to be on Flagship position
Else it'd be extremely good
jovial sedge
Its shitty 10% so could best work against full bb main enemy
And if others uses cv its even better for them dunno
elder crane
-15% dmg all probably works better anyways, since it suppresses torps and suppresses BBs 5% harder - main issue within many CV teams is just being too slow and vanguard is already done for
naive dome
extended maint... rip
jovial sedge
-15% all from what now
uncut parcel
proper sorrel
sounds like weaker hiryuu
storm jewel
sink afterward is big yikes
"opps its 6.5s and the enemies still alive, and my enty is the only left, time to forking reset"
stable dawn
Essex now pvp viable? 
stable dawn
wait it actually procs juneau twice?
storm jewel
stable dawn
stable dawn
if it does, then GG. The game is over.
hoary saddle
hahaha nah it just means evry1 will have that item on juneau
which makes exercises longer 😦
stable dawn
no it means everyone will run juneau
hoary saddle
I mean every1 kinda does already
stable dawn
but torpmemes
hoary saddle
Out of exercises
stable dawn
hoary saddle
but again, it did revive Juneau
stable dawn
vg having a hiryuu-level stall is pretty op ngl
inb4 delaying opponents becomes meta
storm jewel
but 8s undead could mess up with CV airstrike
hoary saddle
I think it doesn't proc twice
light crystal
Did this get nerfed on Live? I thought it was supposed to absorb ALL VG dmg
hoary saddle
I tested on w13 and it did not proc juneau twice
stable dawn
light crystal
Behold! The Future.
storm jewel
@light crystal what do those 2 auxes do ?
ohhhhh saw in datamine now
interesting
im running hpfcr+beaver
now with these 2 options
light crystal
Makes her into Sodak for first 6s of battle, while nerfing everyone's dmg by 15%, on top of giving a bunch of Hit, FP and Eva stats. Essentially, it gives her the role of Amagi, and Sodak, while the Aux themselves providing some of the stats needed for PvP of a Flagship BB (Eva, FP, and Hit). They thought of it well.
Gonna try this. If I see I like I keep it, if I'm iffy, we switch Manjuu repair back to Pearls, I guess.
Gonna roll with this for both Attack and Defense, see how it goes
sacred heath
It prevents instakill from enemy torpmeme, so that's something
Also can prevent warkai deletions when equipped on defense fleet
light crystal
I can confirm that WNT + Nelson Flags work very well on Nagato.