pvp

[ripe latch]

juneau say hello

[past egret]

[elder crane]

If Helena doesn't get survivability, a fast skill, or a perma skill,

[coral wren]

[past egret]

No sara dance

[elder crane]

she'll just get exploded

[past egret]

In defensive comps

[coral wren]

more damage to airstrike

[past egret]

Offensive she at least survives 21 seconds

with enough resets

[elder crane]

not vs FdG and Azuma

well

[past egret]

Running sandy June Helena atm and despite being top position Helena gets obliterated

Sneeze on her and she dies

[coral wren]

helena in pvp

does it work

[past egret]

Juneau outlives everyone to

[coral wren]

[past egret]

Defensive no

Offensive is a meme

[coral wren]

hm

oh yea

i wanna learn something

[past egret]

Maybe with full carrier fleets, Enty, foxes

[coral wren]

how do i build a fleet that brings pain to opponents

in defensive

[past egret]

FDG Azuma Amagi

Enjoy

(Azuma and FDG D30)

[coral wren]

no please

i dont have those, next

[past egret]

Run the torp frontline

[coral wren]

already doing

[ripe latch]

better if they add +5 resets for day

[past egret]

Ibuki Noshiro and uh

What’s the third one

[coral wren]

idk aya or nanoda

[past egret]

There’s someone specific

[coral wren]

eh

i didnt know about that

[past egret]

Found it

These 3

[coral wren]

so it is nanoda

[past egret]

That’s how you make enemies attacking you suffer

[coral wren]

why tho

whats the proof of this

[past egret]

Torp damage

[coral wren]

this is the best torp?

[ripe latch]

ibuki not have speed so she worst on torp team /thread

[past egret]

[coral wren]

hmm

i use noshi jintsuu aya

[past egret]

@ripe latch there is a solution

[coral wren]

my ibuki a bit from d30...

[ripe latch]

boiler + rainbow , but still usless

[past egret]

[coral wren]

[past egret]

Boilers go zoooom

Oh yea

From testing

It seems Minsk Chapa Tash is Faster then Z1 Z23 Z46

[elder crane]

Best torpteam is Noshiro Azuma ykkz

[ripe latch]

go back old meta 6 boilers

[coral wren]

[ripe latch]

[coral wren]

is that even torp

[elder crane]

Wait, not ykkz

I meant Ibuki

RIP

typo

[ripe latch]

3dd x 6 boilers , beaver and go

[elder crane]

Noshiro Azuma Ibuki

[coral wren]

that would be slow

[elder crane]

It's not actually that slow, especially with a gyro and a rudder

[coral wren]

what aux u put on them

[elder crane]

Azuma and Ibuki both have speed between CA and CL

[coral wren]

i might use that when azuma is usable

[elder crane]

I memed it up pretty hard

[coral wren]

why use azuma in torp team tho

isnt nanoda just better

[elder crane]

I think it was Pearl/oxy Noshiro, Rudder/gyro Azuma, engine/oxy Ibuki?

Azuma explodes things

[coral wren]

hmm

whats engine

[elder crane]

Azuma by first barrage by ~12 s in has done more damage to opponent vanguard than Ibuki does most of the time

[vague token]

boiler

[coral wren]

i see

[vague token]

ibuki offtank?

[ripe latch]

[vague token]

probably whiffs all torps cause she shoots last

xD

[past egret]

@ripe latch look at the zoom fleet I found

[elder crane]

it's a torpteam

[elder crane]

you live by the RNG, die by the RNG

[vague token]

kek

[past egret]

Full boiler they are faster than Z fleet

[coral wren]

zoom

[elder crane]

Now add in Charles

[coral wren]

[past egret]

Speed memes

[coral wren]

oh no what is this

[elder crane]

[ripe latch]

@past egret but why u fleet get so many dmg from barrage?

[coral wren]

does speed meme work anyways

[past egret]

Just dodge the barrage

[coral wren]

[past egret]

Frontline with those three are actual paper though

Use Azuma or torp Fleet and they get reduced to atoms before BB’s even fire

The solution to that is simple, just use meta instead

[vague token]

kek

[crude mortar]

actually usable

[shell heron]

looks like an undergeared fleet with weird vg

[crude mortar]

[shell heron]

losing Yukikaze is one thing, but Juneau is too much

[hot creek]

Im going to go where no man has dared venture before.

[shell heron]

[hot creek]

In conclusion: Noshiro/Juneau/Azuma might be best in my current torp fill environment.

Cause at this point I might as well just use Noshiro over yukikaze.

I want to shut down those filthy torp memers who insist on using torps on offense.

[crude mortar]

torp meme still going to win aren't they

using triple cv meme instead of torp meme vs that comp

[hot creek]

With Noshiro and torp bulge stack around, torp memes won't stand a chance even with a lucky torp opening.

[coral wren]

[vague token]

jintsuu doesnt share

noshiro shares 20% torp reduc on entire vg

xD

dr is multiplicative im pretty sure

[crude mortar]

80*0.7

56%

44% reduction

jintsuu 20%

*0.8

44% dmg taken

56% reduction

[whole terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-math-what-wtf-peep-gif-6081931

[shy hazel]

[shy hazel]

in games its not always addition

theres scaling and stuff

[ebon schooner]

oh you guys are talking math

[crude mortar]

use this

very useful program for calculating number

[crude mortar]

but i born in asian family

i use brain instead

[ionic magnet]

its hidden to plebs

you wont find it ingame

[crude mortar]

example you take 100 damage 20% reduction then you take 80
next 20% reduction you take 64 damage
next 30% reduction you take 44.8 damage

junior grade math

and if you hit 100 and take 44.8 damage its mean55.2% damage reduction

[frail orbit]

1000.80.8*0.7 = 44.8

Or just say it as 100*(1-0.3)(1-0.2)(1-0.2)

[crude mortar]

atleast i show how to do math instead of doing nothing and scream like"omg other do nothing he so mean"

[prime panther]

noshiro + torp bulge might be additive

[crude mortar]

many people say its mult

idk

@zenith tundra lets summon the expert

[zenith tundra]

no dr outside of cat mountain is additive

[coral wren]

whats cat mountain

[zenith tundra]

a cat ability

[elder crane]

Well, technically DoT DR is additive, cause it's its own thing, cause 🍝 #whatisconsistency

[zenith tundra]

wait wdym by dot dr?

[elder crane]

Basically currently just fires

Amagi/FE/Hiei-chan/etc. fire DR stacks additively

But that's cause DoTs follow their own rules separate from other damage

Cause
#whatisconsistency
🍝

[ionic magnet]

bulge+noshiro buff is additive after all

tested just now

[prime panther]

cats mountains should be multi

[ionic magnet]

naked = 670 dmg
w/ bulge = 469 dmg
w/ bulge + noshiro = 335 dmg

was convinced its multiplicative cos everyone says so

but its not

[elder crane]

Oh hey, guess it works like fires then

Wait, are there any direct aviation dr other than Ncal?

wonder if that's additive too

[prime panther]

acv i tihnk

[elder crane]

I suppose torps never relevant enough to care

[ionic magnet]

testing torp dmg took me longer than i thought
so hard to see which dmg is which and they keep missing too

[elder crane]

Already did the torp daily?

[ionic magnet]

oof forgot about that one

just tested with someone in my list

[elder crane]

[zenith tundra]

could be that specific dr is added together 1st then applied? general dr still is multiplicative

[crude mortar]

era of torp is over bois

[zenith tundra]

even ap dr and normal dr applies multiplicatively

just like cdr is added then applied

[elder crane]

Probably

[zenith tundra]

that would explain why fire dr was always additive since it was always specific to fire

[elder crane]

that's why I was asking about aviation DR

[zenith tundra]

i just tested armor ap dr yukikaze dr and echo dr and they are multiplicative

[elder crane]

also I thought of one

Bel smoke

problem with that is, erm

testing how bel smoke and NC stack is, erm

a bit hard

I don't think you can get bel smoke to cover main fleet in PvE

[zenith tundra]

6 boilers and pray? against akaga

[elder crane]

basically... sounds pepega af

[vague token]

good luck with that one without testing mode

o7

[elder crane]

there has to be another ship that gives fleet DR vs plane damage specifically, no?

there's like a million main fleet protect skills for vanguard, doesn't one of them do that?

[prime panther]

only thing that isnt multiplicative dr should be type specific dr

[vague token]

lot of destroyers with anti plane i thought

swiftsure reduces avi damage for main

bache 30% for self

[zenith tundra]

lil sandy?

[vague token]

gonna skip taihou

yeah lil sandy

[zenith tundra]

seems reliable since is 1s in and 30s duration

[vague token]

yeah

swiftsure will be impossible, you gotta shoot down planes

x_X

[elder crane]

Bache could work for testing, maybe

bache damage taken in bel smoke

problem is
where would

1. Bache not just die (lol, anyone level her?)
2. Bel won't kill everyone
3. plane hits bache at right timing

[vague token]

taihou with nc then

[elder crane]

oh hey

yeah that works

[vague token]

[zenith tundra]

what would even be a good source of avi dmg to test against? suicide with no aa guns or just bombs/torp?

[prime panther]

maybe find a akaga fleet and use solo vg

[vague token]

0 aa guns, some bulky vg so you can get hit by suicide probably

dunno

akaga would be best since they're fast

[zenith tundra]

i would pick a solo carrier and something like juneau solo vg

she'll die eventually and then u can see what torp hit for

hiryuu 3rd for safety

[crude mortar]

naked hiryu

nothing can go wrong

naked hiryu with vh hard and rudder

[zenith tundra]

it shouldn't really matter since u want to test on torp dmg not suicide

actually just stall vg seem better

the 1 problem is getting hits on same ship which should be taihou

or ship with same aa

1709 only taihou
1388 taihou+nc

if base dmg without dr is 2136 it end up exactly 0.8 and 0.65

i cannot test that base without dr since taihou not max level

[elder crane]

Why are we testing in PvP though

just go to like a daily and eat some planes

oh, though Taihou has fighters, huh

[zenith tundra]

idk more used to test in pvp

[elder crane]

that's annoying

should still be fine to test in ch 12 though

[zenith tundra]

the problem with avi dmg is u need ships with same level and aa that u can try apply dr to

[elder crane]

fighter intecept reload time is long enough to get a unmolested strike in on her

[zenith tundra]

if u do pve just use nc and lil sandy tbh

[elder crane]

I mean, just test solo taihou vs taihou +NC

[zenith tundra]

i just did that earlier

on enty lucky e torp

[elder crane]

looks like additive

[zenith tundra]

yep

[elder crane]

yeah, additive, good to know then

specific DRs are all additive with each other

(1388/0.65)/(1709/0.8) = 0.9996

close enough (rounding)

[zenith tundra]

• rng in dmg

[elder crane]

also that, yeah, damage RNG

[stone patio]

is there a ship tier list for pvp?

[zenith tundra]

pins

[stone patio]

thanks my dude

[plain carbon]

is there a consensus on what is the "best" main gun on roon?

[upper sparrow]

Roon gun? Because it has the biggest raw dps also her skill, like baltimore cases

[ripe latch]

any ca gun because she pretty usless as dd ca

[crude mortar]

roon in pvp

[upper sparrow]

Kms fleet

[coral wren]

how2meta : from kms version.

1. yeet graf for amagi due to amagi buff being better.
2. since use amagi, yeet kms vg for nanodajunazuma.
3. since use that vg, bismarck useless. ws time.
4. fdg can stay. meta achieved.

[crude mortar]

^

[upper sparrow]

Kms meta guide

[hollow maple]

Then Yeet prinz for juneau because she atleast does something after dying

[midnight heron]

idk if its just me but im starting to get convinced triple guns are more effective on defence fleets than twin guns

[ripe latch]

want see roon vs azuma

[grand sluice]

Jesus. The top 3 PvP in my CN server are just the cancer fleets of PvP lol

[upper sparrow]

En will be soon like that too dont worry m8

[crude mortar]

friedmama

I like how this guyt change nagato in chinese text to english

[jovial mural]

Most of the pr ships need dev 30 on order to be good, but what about fate simulation?

[ripe latch]

EN agent

[crude mortar]

famine alter

[elder crane]

@jovial mural depends on ship
For Monarch, Nep, mostly a nice small bonus, not too important
For sanrui and Ibuki, slightly impactful
Probably decently impactful for roon but lol roon
Very important for Izumo but lol izumo still

[glacial shuttle]

is Dev20 good enough to start using Azuma?

[hollow maple]

Western spy

[rocky shadow]

Is saint Louis good as off tank?

[upper sparrow]

She is preferable as off tank/mid if use her with nanoda-juneau, well just swap it depend on enemy def. Fleet

[rocky shadow]

Ok then

Double catapult or catapult + fuel for pvp?

[upper sparrow]

Rudder/badge+fuel, but if u dont have enough rudder yet, cata-fuel is good

[rocky shadow]

Ok thank you

[elder crane]

For some you'd want rudder/badge/VH+Beacon

[ripe latch]

2 ?

[crude mortar]

I already eat -1 x10 already

can I jsut go to sleep?

this game need more tix cap

i cant get healthy sleep without eating -1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-111-

sand bag early season to eat -1 later for healthy sleep

[ripe latch]

early pvp best pvp

[glacial shuttle]

if I wanted to move from WFC to Namaryuu, what's best frontline considering Dev20 Azuma?

[ebon schooner]

ykkz and juneau

[ripe latch]

another degen fleet on list

[crude mortar]

[ripe latch]

https://patchwiki.biligame.com/images/blhx/1/12/858s3n5y2xfms2e9tgllkgzqj9w900g.jpg

[past egret]

@ripe latch do we know her skill yet

[ionic magnet]

nope

around 6 more hrs to be disappointed

[vague token]

is this like simul release or something

how is her retro not datamined

xD

[ripe latch]

[ebon schooner]

Enjoy the gold sink

[cursive pebble]

is unicorn good in pvp?

[vague token]

healers are squishy and dont do enough damage to be good

outside of juneau who heals SO much it's silly

[shell heron]

Oh, I'm only 3 behind my reference now

[shell heron]

better than the 12. still the worse start I ever had

[granite flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/528197562998718474/717584025350570034/FB_IMG_1591155510114.jpg

S1: Self torp damage taken reduced by 5-15%; at the start of battle, if the rear vanguard unit is another USS ship, increase their evasion by 4.5-12%.

S2: Every 20s, 30-60% chance to trigger, increase damage taken by all enemies on screen by 20-40% for 10s; When equiped with <SG Radar>, self evasion increased by 5-10%, first radar scan time reduced to 16s.

another disappointment?

[elder crane]

Mostly yeah, though maybe

16 s covers all BB guns pretty much

problem is still the RNG

might be annoying option for defense team though

[granite flame]

hopefully her retrostats give some more survivability

[karmic forum]

Its around 250 hp

[elder crane]

Unless it's something stupid, bleh
she's not making it to second radar

[granite flame]

rip

[elder crane]

problem in end is still 40% chance to do nothing

for offense

Azuma Helena Jun might be a bit annoying on defense though?
Or something

idk if Jun buff is even wanted in that postion

[granite flame]

can she time radar scan with 457 warkai

[elder crane]

yep

40% to do nothing though

[granite flame]

I want to try for offense

[karmic forum]

Warkai is 15s right?

[granite flame]

warkai enty amagi + azuma helena juneau

[elder crane]

I suppose you enjoy not having one vanguard spot 40% of the time

[granite flame]

just pure offensive rng

[elder crane]

Also lol Enty

Use Nagato

this covers Nagato proc timing

[karmic forum]

If the proc lands in time for first ws snipe then I think it might justify helena kai on defense

[elder crane]

first ws snipe is 10 s

lol

[karmic forum]

Oh

[granite flame]

f

[elder crane]

it covers 457 shelling

[karmic forum]

I though it was 15 for some reason

[elder crane]

or like, all BB shelling in general

minus a handful of exceptions

whereas it used to only cover non HPFCR triples

[karmic forum]

Doesn't seem like enough but maybe something works

[elder crane]

Still, 40% to do nothing means she's for sure not viable on offense
if only that first proc at 16 s was also 100%

[granite flame]

whats the issue with offense?

when u can just reset till it does proc?

[karmic forum]

The other problem is that you have to equip an sg radar on her

[granite flame]

what

wdym

[karmic forum]

In order for radar scan to trigger at 16s you need to equip an SG radar

[granite flame]

this

[midnight heron]

depends on whether it increase eva rate

[granite flame]

I never have it equipped on my helena

am i missing something here

[elder crane]

You expect to "always" win on offense

60% to be relevant is waaay too low

offense mirror winrates usually around 85%

[karmic forum]

It says evasion

[elder crane]

some teams lower, some higher, depends on RNG mostly

[karmic forum]

If it were evade rate then that would be exciting for PvE

[granite flame]

OH

I thought you meant for first skill u need the radar equipped

mb

I mean

stats dont seem terrible to have it equipped

just there are much better things to equip on her in the first place

[elder crane]

the evasion buff makes up for it

[granite flame]

maybe washing machine + radar?

beaver + radar

[elder crane]

Nah, you don't stack evasion like that

[zenith tundra]

wfc still only comp that could fully use new timing with 457 ws and both airstrikes landing on it

[granite flame]

boiler + radar then

[elder crane]

still, it's useless for WFC for the most part

% too low for offense
FC is on defense

[zenith tundra]

but outside of that there really isn't much use for her

[karmic forum]

The modular radar scan timing is there

[zenith tundra]

unless u like gambling with nagato helena

[karmic forum]

Might not be useful now but its something to keep in mind for later

[vague token]

16s mark lol

ws shelling

with 457

[elder crane]

she'll never be relevant for offense cause % too low

I think with Nagato etc it's interesting for defense though

nagato comps don't win on defense without nagato proc anyways, for the most part

[zenith tundra]

wfc defense seems only use

[frail orbit]

Having actually go against Hooloo's WFC
That 16s timing seems legit tbh

[elder crane]

and it means defense warkai 60% of the time outdamages yours

FC defense is still

I'm more thinking NamagiWS defense

though, wait, nvm

[zenith tundra]

why would u bother since u lose vg for sure

[karmic forum]

Why use Helena over the meta vanguard?

[elder crane]

Amagi doesn't have 4 IJN
or is that actually a plus

You rely on Helena+Nagato RNG to delete their vanguard + delete one main fleet ship

[zenith tundra]

rng on top of rng good defense

[elder crane]

that's what defense is anyways

sure, that might only be, erm

24% chance to happen

[zenith tundra]

what if she dies to azuma before proc tho?

[elder crane]

but not like defense has higher than 24% winrate

I don't think she does though?

[zenith tundra]

it kind of makes her useless since sg is not good for defense stats

[elder crane]

She gets +10% eva with it, so it's fiiiine, maybe?

[zenith tundra]

and she only gets 240hp on retro

[elder crane]

she's also getting 250 base HP and skill 1 DR

[zenith tundra]

that dr doesn't work on azuma

[elder crane]

wait, it's just torp DR, right

[karmic forum]

Its half a bulge

[zenith tundra]

if u put her off tank maybe with the eva buff

[karmic forum]

Which is still fine.

[elder crane]

she doesn't get own eva buff on skill 1

has to be other ship afaik

[zenith tundra]

oh rip

then is a juneau eva buff lol

[elder crane]

tbf even if azuma deletes her 1/3 of the time, 16% is still roughly the best winrate you get on defense vs the best teams

[frail orbit]

All in all she's more like what
For W13 use in mind, and not against Zoomer in mind

Might go well against the likes of torpmemes anyway

[zenith tundra]

u don't auto lose to nagato barrage tho

[frail orbit]

Also u dunt even put Jun on rear vg

[elder crane]

it's 16% for
Nagato+helena
and no 1/3 Azuma deletion

Helena boosted Nagato and 457 Warkai is the thought

if that's enough to get a win vs some of the top meta, won't be too horrible, I think

[zenith tundra]

idk with a good tank ws is useless and by good i mean fdg

[elder crane]

overall, Helena retro feels a lot like Kagerou retro though, which I predicted

doesn't really make her fundamentally much better

[zenith tundra]

40% more dmg on 1-2 shelling still won't make her delete fdg

[elder crane]

I'll put it up on defense, and I'll see how HLV's WFC feels then

[zenith tundra]

and namagi ws is still worse namagi defense imo

too easy to offset with a tank

[elder crane]

Yeah, thinking over it a bit more, it isn't gonna be much better def than just straight meta options probably

Do I even want to bother trying it on offense?
Not sure if I learn anything from that lol

it's not meant to be a generally strong team

[zenith tundra]

i hope i find someone using namagi ws with helena to test

[elder crane]

Azuma Helena Jun vanguard, probably?

[zenith tundra]

i would try it with wfc maybe at least for fun

[elder crane]

Could also try Azuma Helena ykkz/Noshiro, but bleh

[karmic forum]

I don't think its worth trying

[zenith tundra]

i'll level her up just for pve so no harm testing her

[elder crane]

Actually, this is a pretty major buff for Helena for EX mode, eh?

[zenith tundra]

for pve for sure 16-26 is a better timing then 20-30

[elder crane]

16 s means obviously faster, and also a lot more skill overlaps

Hiei, Sendai for example

Damn, now I regret not keeping a lv1 Hiei

also ofc means you have the option to shift her activation relative to boss patterns

[shell heron]

You want me to make that test fleet

Although my Azusa isn’t dev25 yet

[zenith tundra]

how are u more behind on that then me?

[elder crane]

Mine's just barely dev 25 lol
well, she's nearing 26 now, but just lately

[shell heron]

I been seeing a chain of fdg projects more

[elder crane]

cost of being 45/50 on 457

[karmic forum]

Mine isn't dev 25 either

[elder crane]

hopefully 457 soonish

[karmic forum]

I've stopped taking cube researches as well

[shell heron]

I’m like 30 bps off from 25

[zenith tundra]

457 is irrelevant if u don't use ws or fdg so i don't really need it in en

[karmic forum]

Hopefully I get a good pull from richy event.

[hot creek]

Speaking of PR, I am now realizing just how badly your options are limited by not being able to spend cubes. It's really bad lol.

[shell heron]

I do take blue cube projects if nothing else looks good.

[zenith tundra]

cube spam is fun if u can afford it

[shell heron]

Oh yes, if you’re stuck with low level data gathering or g-531s

[karmic forum]

I'm trying to rush for 457s now

Although its kinda hard to do that

Since nothing seems to be working

[shell heron]

With purple Q projects?

[karmic forum]

Probably gonna be another month before I'll have one ready for PvP

[hot creek]

don't knock on G-531, I take those all day. Those ones are probably responsible for at least half my 457 prints.

[karmic forum]

I haven't gotten a drop from a purple Q in a long while

And I take those fairly requently

[elder crane]

G-531 is basically purple Q project with some ship prints tacked on

good but a bit expensive on coin, yeah

[karmic forum]

I've been taking a lot of those as well

[shell heron]

I suppose. Pr1 data shows its more for gear bps

[elder crane]

PR2 data exists yknow

[karmic forum]

Good news is that I should have another seattle gun soon

[elder crane]

and larger sample size than PR1

should ignore the 457 rate breakdown on that btw, sample size too small for that to be statistically significant

would need 1000s of samples, so f that

[karmic forum]

All I know is that gold and purple projects are good for 457 bps

[elder crane]

actually

no

[shell heron]

I need to check it out. Does it breakdown DR bp drops?

[elder crane]

30 min Q ofc best rate by far, but next best per-time rate is 1H blue Q

yes

[zenith tundra]

depends on luck. i've been getting 457 from dr faces

quite a bit

[elder crane]

on average, not your best source though

as far as the data says

anyways, the 1 H blue Q vs the 4 H purple projects is a question of opportunity cost and time investment

technically the 1H blue Q has a decent amount higher per-time rate, but then you don't have any guarantee you'll see a good project to take after it's done
also you need to be logged in close to when it's done

those two kinds of projects are what you want to spam though if 457 hunting

[karmic forum]

I usually have notifications for research

But they don't work when I already have the game open

[elder crane]

Sleep is a thing that happens

[karmic forum]

So when I'm farming I'm sorta blind to that stuff

[hot creek]

yeah that shits annoying. no notification when you're in game.

[zenith tundra]

i always go back to main menu after a map

[elder crane]

though I suppose it's #pvp
some of us don't sleep?

[karmic forum]

The only time I can check is when I'm also checking PvP

[elder crane]

[karmic forum]

PvP is the only reason why I'm still sorta on time with comms and other stuff

[hot creek]

uptime of 21 hrs of research everyday.

Im still having a hard time getting unbroken sleep for 8 hrs even after finishing PR2

since old habits die hard

[shell heron]

gotta have that zero downtime research

[zenith tundra]

and then waste the next half year without it being that much useful

[vague token]

rip

[hot creek]

Zero downtime requires two people. Unless you're Famine maybe.

[ripe latch]

someone sleep?

[ebon schooner]

[zenith tundra]

is that 166 close enough for a +1?

top 100 is 1763

[hot creek]

I wouldn't hold my breath.

[zenith tundra]

math says i would need 167 rank LOL

[ripe latch]

imagine if this maint more than 7h

[zenith tundra]

time to refresh

[hot creek]

Pog

[ionic magnet]

im moving now if you still have me

[zenith tundra]

was just testing tbh

can i say that ur entire team is yukikaze?

the only way i have to lose is when she just doesn't die

[ionic magnet]

i can prolly put her on rear again after helena gets retro

pretty decent upgrade tbh

atleast it covers 457 now

[zenith tundra]

i might be better off not waiting tbh 4 attempts in 5min with 1st being rng is not good

[ionic magnet]

yea i got stalled by a namaryuu

done now

[zenith tundra]

6 pts behind actually useful somehow

azuma at dev 25 definitely resist more then before

[ionic magnet]

oh i swapped to cudas

[zenith tundra]

ah lol

[ionic magnet]

just testing

ryuusei should still be better on def

ill change it back later

[zenith tundra]

i swapped rudder to rwg just for the off chance i can kill yukikaze faster

[ionic magnet]

how often does helena die before 20s btw

[zenith tundra]

it happened like 2 times and mostly to nagato

[ionic magnet]

mm with retro she shouldnt die before 16s right

[zenith tundra]

i don't think it will happen

ur juneau dying early actually helps

[ionic magnet]

and she gets 90 AA just noticed

[vague token]

lul

[zenith tundra]

ended 44s before reset... too close

[shell heron]

I caught r1 right as I finished my last match

I could have gotten an extra +1 to be safe but that's cutting it close

[ionic magnet]

few ppl went 0/10

[zenith tundra]

ur currently highest score right?

famine is like 2 pts behind

[ionic magnet]

i think so

but its hard to get +2 now

[zenith tundra]

i didn't notice anyone else in between famine and me but idk all sandbaggers

[shell heron]

I have last season's top 15 list so I can check

[zenith tundra]

yesterday u got a +2 and i only got +1 this reset

[ionic magnet]

yea knowing whos sandbagging and rushing helps A LOT

[zenith tundra]

i completely skip 2nd daily reset due to sleep so i can't be mad at the score

i go to be around 2hr before it and wake up 1 hr before it ends

[ionic magnet]

i do that too on midseason

then mess up my sleep again on last 2 days

[shell heron]

I wish that was my problem again.

Last season was nice being that far ahead

I wonder if my r1 person will move when maint is over

that would be a nice +2

[zenith tundra]

u only pushed to 5 right?

[ionic magnet]

watch him skip a whole reset

[zenith tundra]

if he's at 0 seems reasonable to assume so tbh

[ionic magnet]

whos rank 1 anyways

[shell heron]

yes, only 5/10 right now

r1 is not someone I recognize.

[ionic magnet]

[zenith tundra]

i don't think u end up r1 now without any sandbagging

[ionic magnet]

i like the sandbagger-rusher hybrids

[shell heron]

early sandbagger, late rusher

[ionic magnet]

the ones who finish their attacks 1 hour before reset

[cerulean estuary]

[shell heron]

even if that person doesn't move, still a +1

[zenith tundra]

i didn't even check who i landed on tbh. needed to send research before maint

[sour oasis]

Well, things have calmed down in my area, so less time to sandbag for me. Back to being a pure rusher.

[ionic magnet]

increase eva when another uss ship is on rear vanguard

wonder if this works on herself

[vague token]

it says another

the another skills all work

[ionic magnet]

oh really

[vague token]

yes xD

[ionic magnet]

cool she stays on rear then

[zenith tundra]

if she was tankier could run her lead with half torp bulge

[ionic magnet]

sg radar shouldnt be too bad now

[zenith tundra]

ur forced to swap pearl no?

[ionic magnet]

i'll try pearl+sg first

[hot creek]

just have ykkz tank

[zenith tundra]

i wouldn't give up speed

even double boiler juneau won't help overall since she dies fast

test it but i don't think is a good idea

[hot creek]

ykkz tank either dies in 2 seconds or lives forever, its an amazing thing to witness.

[vague token]

azuma/helena mid/juneau off double boiler

[ionic magnet]

1 boiler on ykkz and 1 boiler on jun should still be enough

[vague token]

[ionic magnet]

but yea ill try first

will jun rear even die

[zenith tundra]

i was thinking azuma too with that setup but i don't think i would run it on offense

[vague token]

i mean she'll die

probably too late against triple bb

;)

[ionic magnet]

well priority is to keep helena alive

[zenith tundra]

actually helena setup could work for ws amagi fdg too since fdg uses triple and amagi doesn't get cdr. u only have to give up on hpfcr ws

still rng but i can see it being annoying on defense tbh

[ionic magnet]

i kinda want to make her work with azuma but giving up jun/ykkz is

[zenith tundra]

i could see yukikaze being removed maybe but yeah is really hard to do so

ur sacrificing a consistent dr for a rng dmg buff

[ionic magnet]

noshiro+ibuki+helena+namagi could be annoying in def

[zenith tundra]

dunno

if they even get to 20s

maybe with actual gear and not oxy spam

they still need to survive to 20s to launch

[ionic magnet]

yea maybe helena lead

[zenith tundra]

helena only to 16s

[ionic magnet]

after 1 proc she can die

[zenith tundra]

azuma might actually just kill her tho

35% dr from torp doesn't work on her

[ionic magnet]

well azuma can miss a lot too

[zenith tundra]

u have to survive trough 2mgm cds and barrage

maybe not all barrage is before 16s tho

[ionic magnet]

yea should be fine if 16s

its pretty hard to delete someone that early tbh

unless super unlucky

[zenith tundra]

i still don't like torp and with helena is even more rng somehow

[ionic magnet]

true

maybe just pair with azuma and jun/ykkz

[zenith tundra]

torp anyway tend to be more dangerous on preload then at 20s

[ionic magnet]

yea kinda awkward on namagi comps cos of azuma

i like how they are buffing my wfc tho

[zenith tundra]

i'm quite interested in ws 457 radar combo

[ionic magnet]

im 1 bp away for 3 days now

[zenith tundra]

F

it's gonna take me a while before i can test her since only lvl 96

[ionic magnet]

on jp?

[zenith tundra]

yes

[ionic magnet]

you didnt level helena?

[zenith tundra]

was she ever relevant to pvp tbh?

[ionic magnet]

shes like on top in pve tho

wait did stella not level her too

[zenith tundra]

i haven't looked

i've been leveling up pvp ships and w13 ships outside of broken ships so i never ended up bothering with her

too squishy for w13 bosses

[ionic magnet]

i mean on early days

way before lv 100 uncap

[zenith tundra]

i traded accounts so i had no control over early leveling. at the very least didn't have to level up nagato again for pvp to 120

didn't like leveling her up at all

[ionic magnet]

oh right

i only levelled mine on dorms from lv100 onwards

[vague token]

im surprised he didnt have helena for bossing

or ex

xD

or challenge or w/e

[zenith tundra]

i didn't level helena past 100 in en as well so rip that

[vague token]

rip

mine is 119

just finish the rest with pvp and dorm

[inner zenith]

My only regret is not marrying Helena before capping her.

[zenith tundra]

idk if i want to oath helena tbh

even with the pack and 2 rings idk who to use on

maybe i'll just oath richelieu for testing

[vague token]

need another ring pack so i can oath a meta and an off meta

[zenith tundra]

~~ maybe i'll oath uni for skin ~~

[vague token]

i mean it's efficient

skin + oath boosts is gem friendly

xD

[ionic magnet]

now that i think about it

i still havent oathed fdg

and shes already 119

[inner zenith]

im holding 4 rings. dunno who to oath

[cerulean estuary]

wait for pr3 shifus

[zenith tundra]

if they would release them already

but i want to finish fate 5 1st

[cerulean estuary]

pr3 shifus then they add fate 5 for pr2

wish they will add DAILIES PR BLUEPRINTS , even if its a twice a week like SUBS

[vague token]

guild/friend bp gifting

[ebon schooner]

that sounds kinda pog

[coral wren]

[crude mortar]

is this lost?

it look like it is

reduce self top by 15% while noshiro reduce 20%

for wohle vg

16s trigger for ijn backrow?

why would you ever use helena in ijn comp anyway

[zenith tundra]

useful timing for ws namagi defense rng

with 457 ws

[crude mortar]

[zenith tundra]

it's only speculation

the only comp that really can benefit from her imo is still wfc

[midnight crest]

so that's helena new retro skill?

[zenith tundra]

yes she gets a new skill and a 4s cdr on 1st radar if she uses sgr

[midnight crest]

hmmm....

but what do it mean rear vanguard ship?

so if helena at the first position she will gain buff to the uss ship at the middle position?

[zenith tundra]

it's off tank position

if another uss ship is there with full vg it gets the buff

[midnight crest]

still her RNG skill is too RNG for viable pvp

thus the meta backline is ijn with ijn buff

[zenith tundra]

did it ever change?

boring ijn meta forever in al

[midnight crest]

well hope retro would have some kind of game breaking skill, but now is this

[inner zenith]

ijn is life

[zenith tundra]

it does buff a bit ws 457 but it's rng so nothing really changes

[midnight crest]

her skill is useful if i really want her to buff a uss ship... but if she buff juneau it's game over in pvp

well... Helena new confident face is enough for shitkikans i guess

[crude mortar]

is it torp stack addictively again

helena jun noshiro

65% torp reduction

[zenith tundra]

on helena only

do u also know azuma exist and she doesn't have torp

[crude mortar]

[upper sparrow]

Yes ring pack is coming, time to oath azuma & noshiro

[ripe latch]

better buy oil

[coral wren]

conclusion helena still no good

[blazing scroll]

I will probably use her anyway for memes

5 USS fleet

[shell heron]

Conclusion: Helena still remains a PvE ship. Just better.

[frail orbit]

Wait for WFC timing lah

[zenith tundra]

rank 18

[elder crane]

eyyy maint extended bois

[ionic magnet]

2 hrs extension here we go again

[elder crane]

10 H maint now

[ionic magnet]

[elder crane]

also
isn't this an easy patch lol

they're not adding much, and no new mechanics or anything

[zenith tundra]

[frail orbit]

10H at least

Not 12hours

[zenith tundra]

i kind of want to go to bed already... rip dorm btw

[upper sparrow]

It seems 10 hour maintenance will be a routine from now on

[zenith tundra]

if it goes overtime it's me that's cursed. every season i had a good score got ruined by maint

[ripe latch]

but every maint ruined our score...

[coral wren]

[crude mortar]

10+2 = 12

8+2+2 also = 12

[frail orbit]

And so does 2x2x3

Or 2x6 or 3x4

[crude mortar]

[frail orbit]

In4 6x3

[lament lichen]

Im waiting for a 24 hr maint

[ripe latch]

[hot creek]

sandy's up

inb4 they take it down again

[crude mortar]

server is up?

[zenith tundra]

can't even enjoy sleep today

[shell heron]

I'll take that +1 now and hope for more rushers

not even sure if that person went down to 0 last reset

[zenith tundra]

if no one moves in 10m i'll have to wake up before reset

[storm jewel]

anyone got gear pic for pvp centaur ? just pull her

[zenith tundra]

tierlist in pins has gears

[storm jewel]

oh very nice

wait so in pvp

1 drop tank is enough

or 2

?

[zenith tundra]

equipment passive skills don't stack

[storm jewel]

i see

[crude mortar]

use av gas

[storm jewel]

mind I ask what is av gas

[zenith tundra]

improved oil tank

[storm jewel]

oh this is what i was wondering about if i should use 1 or 2

my bad

[zenith tundra]

there are way better options for stats then a 2nd avg

[past egret]

Did they change Helena skill

[vague token]

another 457 bp

[past egret]

It doesn’t say it needs the radar anymore

[vague token]

it's no radar = 20s timer

with radar = 16s

[shell heron]

better first salvo/airstrike timing

[past egret]

Ah mb looked at wrong skill

[shell heron]

feels awkward after

[vague token]

isnt it still 20s cd?

[shell heron]

after

yes

[vague token]

works better with guns

xD

or rushdown and then let her sink

[past egret]

Is this gear load out fine for her then?

[vague token]

if you want it to trigger at 16

if you dont just remove the sg

[past egret]

Appreciated

[shell heron]

but then you're pretty much running Helena with slightly boosted stats

[vague token]

still need 457 for me to want the 16s i think

[shell heron]

very likely

now if it was 15s, it can line up with divine marksman

[vague token]

im ok with it not doing that

that would be cancer

[ripe latch]

maybe make another retro sandy>

?

[vague token]

too bad the rear vg evasion boost is a bait

it's only good for pve

[shell heron]

WS can actually delete someone with snipe and 1st salvo

[vague token]

ws with 457 will do that anyways xD

you can already dunk hiryuu with the 16s proc on hsfcr 410

unless they're rudder/armor i think

[shell heron]

I don't see why def hiryuu won't run that

It makes a pretty big difference.

[ripe latch]

why helena need eva? its really bad for pvp

[vague token]

i mean, then your hiryuu does the rest of the chip xD

ezpz

[shell heron]

I think some people caught on. been noticing Hiryuu's not being proccing on 1st salvo

[past egret]

@ripe latch Eva is bad for pvp?

[vague token]

i havent hit both sniper shots in a long time xD

[ebon schooner]

[vague token]

on anything meta

[shell heron]

imagine not running rudder and full damage on main fleet

[vague token]

kek

[ripe latch]

@ripe latch Eva is bad for pvp?
@past egret if play only with double sg or sg + ihr , other not good . And this not give u more survival

[past egret]

For both frontline and back? @ripe latch

[ripe latch]

yea, but we have amagi , she very boost main eva

on vg pretty usless

[vague token]

she boosts evade rate being the important part

if we had someone boost vg evade rate by like 10-15% they'd be strong too

[ripe latch]

[past egret]

shiny fleet

[ripe latch]

when u play torps and ppl put shields

[past egret]

Colossal brain strategy

[shell heron]

Galaxy brain strats is to use pure speed

can't die if they can't hit you

[past egret]

Speed fleets are fun

Destroyers go zoooom

Doesn’t help when they are so fast they catch every torpedo on the map though

[shell heron]

I wonder how fast can double boiler aux Le Malin/Le Triomphant/Charles get

[crude mortar]

enemy ibuki lauching casual preload torp

its super effective!

[ripe latch]

@shell heron le malin / triomphant / eldri double boiler

[vague token]

eldridge slows you down too much xD

[ripe latch]

[crude mortar]

[obsidian kite]

What would a full French fleet even look like

[crude mortar]

white flag

[proper sorrel]

lol

[coral wren]

cursed french flag

[light crystal]

Feed my

[vague token]

he lives

[karmic forum]

Season seems low in terms of score

Don't think anyone can hit 2600 at this rate

[zenith tundra]

idk holoo and famine are like 5-6 +2 from 2600

with rest +1

doesn't seem impossible

[crude mortar]

frech bb had preload +1

does it mean triple french ship can delete enemy whole vg at 4:59

rich had preload+1

dank had preload+1

jean had preload +1

randomly wipe whole vg x3

torp meme front with triple french bb back

le malin had +20 torp skill

*+20%

rich buff lemarin +15% torp

[sterile bluff]

i mean...

[crude mortar]

jean bart and dank take 15% less dmg from warspite

[sterile bluff]

the targeting is random

[crude mortar]

its 3 cannon fire at the same time

twice

and normally when you fire torp

ai usually gonna stuck vanguard asomewhere afk

at the back

when enemy vg fire torp your vg usually go stuck somewhere in the corner and taking bb cannon dmg

cuz their write stupid ai

*they write stupid ai

[sterile bluff]

that's not my experience vgs just move randomly regardless if they r firing torps

[crude mortar]

vg always trying to dodge something

if they fire something normally vg attempting to dodge

but if u fire manything at the same time

their brain just shutdown and start tanking everything

[sterile bluff]

im pretty sure it's completely random

their movements

[crude mortar]

i dont think so

I use boiler and their bb never hit my vg

if its random then their bb sould be able to hit my vg sometime

it never happen with boiler

[sterile bluff]

that's cuz they move fast with boiler

[crude mortar]

no

when they had red circle

on them

they instantly move

you can go try it

[sterile bluff]

i did

i use boiler all the time

[crude mortar]

they dont run into bb shot

they always dodging

[sterile bluff]

yes they do dodge

they dodge cuz they move faster, not because they gain some more advanced AI

[crude mortar]

no

then intentionally dodge

if u land 2 bb shot infront of them

they run backward

[sterile bluff]

well u can verify with others

but i think it's random

[crude mortar]

i think its common knowledge

ask the expert

@zenith tundra

if its pure random then its super high chance for them to run into triple bb preload

one bb land a hit whole vg just explode

and just go x6 rainbow torp cuz le malin speed 54 and saint louis speed 26+8 they dontneed boiler

[ripe latch]

franch torp team for one sakura

so usless

[coral wren]

[obsidian kite]

My Ayaya face torped a Warkai

[proper sorrel]

nom

[zenith tundra]

i'm pretty sure vg movement is random tbh. the one thing i've seen is that on direction changes they have more a tendency to stop but i don't think there is any reason why and when they actually do that more then pure rng

[crude mortar]

i'll record the video

[obsidian kite]

Either way Torp meme-ing is fun!

[zenith tundra]

i can't seem to find any pattern to why something they never stop in 20s or stop 2-3 times. seems like rng to me since gun timings should be the same every time almost. it would be easier testing with 3 dd guns in vg since then they always shoot at same times

[crude mortar]

they dont dodge dd gun

they dodge bb gun

im uploading